1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,760 We're going to do a one up on on the chilling of beers. 2 00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:07,760 So our plan is to have as our first major ground based 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,920 demonstration of wireless power beaming 100 meter distance 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,800 demonstration. So the one you're referring to 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:21,000 we beamed power over 36 meters. This was between Eastern Airbus 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,560 and a company called M Rod 36 meters and a couple of kilowatts 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,800 of power in in this kind of quite limited audience 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,080 demonstration of of of power beaming this time with Tara 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,160 Spark. We really want to bring wireless 10 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:38,080 power transmission out to the world. 11 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:42,240 We're not interested in doing a scientific experiment and 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,360 writing about it in some research papers which nobody is 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,400 gonna read, but really show the world that wireless power 14 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,160 beaming is a thing that it works. 15 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,320 It can be used in an operational sense. 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:59,320 So our plan is to power a live music concert with wireless 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,160 power. For the first time, we are going 18 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,280 to be doing the real MTV Unplugged. 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,960 Well, Speaking of time to go, it's time to bring our guest 20 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,920 Sanjay Vijendran back on the show. 21 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,400 Sanjay was formerly with European Space Agency. 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,720 He has now started his own company with an incredible group 23 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,560 of founders called Terra Spark. Sanjay, welcome back to the show 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,680 in your new rejuvenated space based solar power energy. 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,280 Thanks so much, Jeremy. Great to be back on a year since 26 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,360 we lasted this. Maybe this will become an annual 27 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,120 thing. It will become an annual thing. 28 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,000 And I'm just going to point out I love the most about your your 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,320 new Terror Spark Energy team is that the website leads 30 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:49,440 engineering 1st Europe rooted and it's so nice to have the 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,640 European angle again. Every time it comes up, I'm 32 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,520 like, yes, it's not just America. 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,960 We're Europe's answer to energy from space. 34 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,800 Love it, love it. Well, all right, let's have a 35 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,520 let's do a fun quick little experiment. 36 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,120 Sanjay, imagine you are a journalist tracking the space 37 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:11,080 based solar power market and over the last 30 to 60 days what 38 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,560 are you excited about that the market is is screaming from the 39 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,760 mountain tops? I think we're living in once 40 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,160 again an energy crisis. The whole Middle East situation 41 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,720 in the last weeks has really brought it even more to people's 42 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:32,040 minds how dependent we are on secure available energy and how 43 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,720 dependent some regions of the world are on access to that 44 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,880 energy coming from outside and not having much control about 45 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,400 that and how it affects everyday people's everyday lives, the 46 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,120 availability of that energy and that cost of that energy. 47 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,400 So it is really timely that solutions and new solutions are 48 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,480 being brought to the fore to address some of these long 49 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,480 standing dependencies and challenges we've had, which 50 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,840 we've just never had solutions for and and patch fix. 51 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,080 Each time we have a crisis, we we try to solve it in the short 52 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,400 term and then go back to that that fragile situation, which 53 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,640 then break breaks again sometime later. 54 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:19,240 So what we're seeing is with the huge demand increase in energy 55 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,000 and and electricity that's needed for various applications, 56 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:27,560 particularly data centers in the Western world, and this shock 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,800 once again in being able to to get energy just for today's 58 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,480 needs, let alone the growing needs of the future. 59 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,760 I think this is just making it more and more possible to be 60 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,080 able to have conversations around what could be the 61 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,400 solutions that actually solve this problem in the long term. 62 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:53,720 In the a lot of the the news that I see, the energy crisis, 63 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,360 the energy problems that it's causing far outweigh or seem to 64 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,160 me to outweigh the time spent on actually discussing the 65 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,160 conflict, on discussing the diplomacy of the conflict. 66 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:08,960 It seems to be very much about the energy problem of it, which 67 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:13,440 I think says a lot about where we are and how we think about. 68 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,600 War, it's kind of very selfish when you think about it. 69 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:23,240 It's the the how does this affect me affecting on the 70 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,200 conversations rather than what what's really happening over 71 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,640 there that's that's causing these secondary effects. 72 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,080 But energy is so fundamental to our lives that any disruption in 73 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,240 that, for whatever that reason, is where we're immediately 74 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,840 trying to resolve that that situation of how do I get that, 75 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,160 that energy and and sometimes missing, you know, the deeper, 76 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,640 deeper roots of the conversation. 77 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,880 Why are we in this situation yet again? 78 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,440 Well, some people might say that once we solve the energy 79 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,920 problem, then conflicts like this might not actually happen 80 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:03,440 so much because there are some people that say they're actually 81 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,840 all a question of energy. Yes, I would agree with that. 82 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,520 The the quest for resources, whether it's energy, whether 83 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,600 it's minerals, other materials has always been a a reason for 84 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,880 conflict on Earth. And so being able to access 85 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,600 abundant resources, but there's energy, materials somewhere 86 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:30,000 where we have to compete less for it could and should lead to 87 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,200 less conflict in the future. And This is why energy from 88 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,840 space and and also other materials resources from space 89 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:41,080 is so, so compelling and and attractive a prospect if we can 90 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,320 access those resources. Let's let's chew on this idea 91 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,480 for a minute. So candidly, space based solar 92 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:52,320 power is essentially a threat to every major power structure in 93 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,280 the world. Have you thought about the 94 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:59,240 entities that don't want it to succeed and why? 95 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,880 Is it a threat? It is initially going to be 96 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,600 complementary in adding to all of the other energy sources that 97 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,840 we have because we are in a world of not simply trying to 98 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:17,760 substitute certain sources of energy, but just have more of it 99 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:21,440 and get it to whoever needs it when they need it. 100 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,320 So while there will be some transition and substitution 101 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,840 going on, I think for quite a while it will be an addition to 102 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,320 to all of the rest in the long term. 103 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:38,120 Definitely some will will will do better than others in the 104 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,840 market for whether it's for economic reasons, sustainable 105 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:46,560 reasons, security reasons, we will see the mix of energy 106 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,520 sources change over time. People can see that as a threat 107 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,000 or they can anticipate that, see what's where, where the world is 108 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,800 is heading and seek new opportunities and reinvent 109 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,200 themselves and capture these new opportunities that are coming. 110 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,920 So I guess, I guess the ones who who would see it as a threat are 111 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,720 those who want to keep their feet dug in the ground and and 112 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,280 never change and just simply stick with the status quo. 113 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,560 But that's a choice. When you were last on here, 114 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Sanjay, one of the stories that you told lodged in my memory and 115 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,400 probably lodged A listener's memory. 116 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,240 And it might not be the story that you want people to 117 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,760 remember, but it was very memorable. 118 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:34,760 Beaming energy a cross a space and you chilled some beer in a 119 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,120 fridge. That was two years ago. 120 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,360 Long that three years ago was that experiment. 121 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,240 I wasn't really 22 so it's it's 3 1/2 years ago now. 122 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,360 What can you chill now? We're going to do. 123 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,800 Beers can you chill? Yeah, we're we're going to do a 124 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,640 one up on, on the chilling of beers. 125 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:57,760 So our plan is to have as our first major ground based 126 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,880 demonstration of wireless power beaming 100 meter distance 127 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,760 demonstration. So the one you're referring to 128 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:11,800 we beamed power over 36 meters. This was between Eastern Airbus 129 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,280 and a company called Emerald 36 meters and a couple of kilowatts 130 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:23,200 of power in in this in this kind of quite limited audience 131 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,400 demonstration of of of power beaming this time with Tara 132 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,480 Spark. We really want to bring wireless 133 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,480 power transmission out to the world. 134 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,559 We're not interested in doing a scientific experiment and 135 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,679 writing about it in some research papers which nobody is 136 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,720 going to read, but really show the world that wireless power 137 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,480 beaming is a thing, that it works. 138 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,720 It can be used in an operational sense. 139 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:53,640 So our plan is to power a live music concert with wireless 140 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,640 power for the first time. We are going to be doing The 141 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,320 real MTV Unplugged. Come on. 142 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,680 OK, we need more. We need more details. 143 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:05,200 So who? Who's headlining? 144 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,400 So that's that's what we're working out. 145 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,600 So hopefully the right people see this show and want to sign 146 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:15,080 up to be the first band to be operating their stage lights, 147 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,280 music and everything from Wireless Power beam from 100 148 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,240 meters away Unplugged. So the idea of doing this is not 149 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,240 just a technical demonstration, which is something we need to do 150 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,320 to show that we in Terrace Park have that capability. 151 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,880 But it will will also show in a really visible way that people 152 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:38,720 can see and enjoy the experience of a real practical use of 153 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,840 wireless power. Where's that going to be? 154 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:42,400 Yeah. And when? 155 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,280 Currently we're planning to do this in down in Portugal where 156 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,520 we have some excellent collaborators at the Institute 157 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,520 of Telecommunications in Aviro, just South of Porto. 158 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,600 And yeah, we're working out the exact location, but it will be 159 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,320 somewhere down there. And in terms of timeline, we're 160 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,800 looking at the first quarter of next year. 161 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,200 Could you predict how because I'm familiar with Glastonbury 162 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,760 for example and they have very different sizes of musical 163 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,720 festival. Will this be powering 164 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,960 everything? So musicians, fridge, food 165 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:25,920 trucks and could you give an ish prediction of the power which 166 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,160 you will be beaming? So this won't be a Glastonbury 167 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,720 scale festival. Clearly this is ultimately still 168 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,080 a small demonstration. So we're looking at beaming of 169 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,640 the order of a kilowatt of useful power, which may not 170 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,040 sound like a lot that's less than what operates your your 171 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,720 cattle, electric cattle. But surprisingly, you can run 172 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,760 quite a few speakers and some musical instruments and and 173 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,040 sound table with that man of power. 174 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,360 So we're looking at at basically a relatively small audience, 175 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:04,520 maybe 100 to 200 people in a smallish space. 176 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,000 But this is not filling a stadium and and doing a massive 177 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,240 concert, of course, but it'll, it'll still be. 178 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,640 Any maybe we we should put the we should put the band back 179 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,240 together. Just head over to Portugal. 180 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,080 We. Can play super exciting Sanjay, 181 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,320 I love the the idea because it's like a very tangible relatable 182 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,640 thing when people see and hear the amps are on the music's 183 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,520 coming out that's coming from the sun like that's or that's 184 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,480 coming from a beam power across across from one point to the 185 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,240 next and improving the technology. 186 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,440 It's really interesting because a lot of people are, a lot of 187 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,120 other strategies are like, hey, let's get our stuff up in space 188 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,840 and make it work, and it's got to be in space to do anything. 189 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,600 Can I ask a silly question? The the the chilling of the bear 190 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,400 was 36 meters or something. You said 100 meters for this, so 191 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,840 you've progressed 40 meters in four years. 192 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,560 Doesn't seem like a lot. Why is the distance social? 193 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:01,880 Could you just not make that 100 meters, 100 kilometers? 194 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,560 What's preventing that? Well, first of all, this is not 195 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:10,280 the same team with the same technology that's doing this 196 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,320 demonstration that did that demonstration back in 2022. 197 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,480 So this is a new company and a new set of people. 198 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,280 We've got to show our stakeholders there. 199 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,280 We in Tara Spark have put a team together that has the know how 200 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,240 and the ability to do what is power beaming. 201 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,320 We could have done a a smaller test of course, but we wanted to 202 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,000 do something that was still significant on the scale of what 203 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,840 others have done in the past. So we're not breaking any 204 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,200 records in terms of distance. Others have done power beaming 205 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,760 over that distance and even longer neither for the power. 206 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,560 What we're really focusing on is in terms of the three important 207 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,160 metrics for power beaming, which are distance, power and 208 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,960 efficiency. We are we are focusing on the 209 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,320 3rd aspect here. We are trying to show very 210 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,560 transparently as well to to people outside, which is 211 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:03,240 something that historically teams have not been very open 212 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,200 about how efficient that transmission is from the 213 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,680 transmitter. We're taking DC power in on the 214 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:13,360 transmitter side, converting it to radio frequency, beaming it 215 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,400 across that distance, collecting it, converting it back to 216 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,520 electricity as DC on the other side. 217 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:23,960 So that DC to DC efficiency is a really important metric when you 218 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,480 talk about power beaming on Earth or going all the way from 219 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,840 space down to the Earth. So we're trying to push that 220 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,880 state-of-the-art in terms of end to end efficiency higher than 221 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,640 others have done for this scale of demonstration. 222 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,200 So that that's one thing. Now why are we not going even 223 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:41,960 further than that? Well, of course you have to 224 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:48,200 crawl before you walk and run, but there is a, a scaling effect 225 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,960 on the hardware on the size of the transmitter and the receiver 226 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,880 that has to happen in order to beam power efficiently over 227 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,360 longer distances. So yes, we could go up to 500 228 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,600 meters or a kilometer, but then we'd have to build everything 229 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,440 much, much bigger in order to get that power officially 230 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,840 transferred. And that will cost out even more 231 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,440 money, right. So we're kind of capital limited 232 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,080 in terms of how much we can put towards the, the hardware 233 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,760 development to do this demonstration at this time. 234 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,640 And of course in the future as we raise more funds and we grow 235 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,280 as a company, we will be doing larger and larger ground based 236 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,960 demonstrations, beaming from ground to to an aerial vehicle 237 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,240 or from a from a plane down to the ground and then ultimately 238 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,320 from space to earth. But it is a step by step process 239 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,680 in terms of developing the the technology in the know how to do 240 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,960 that at increasing scales, but also raising the capital that's 241 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,040 needed to do these bigger and bigger demonstrations. 242 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,680 Yeah, it's like it's you, you push something out, you test it, 243 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,200 you prove it, and then you take that to the next level. 244 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,040 And then the the money becomes more locked in with what you're 245 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,440 trying to do and, and is allowing the next step to 246 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,400 happen, right. Because it's This isn't as easy 247 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,680 as throwing some stuff up in orbit and making it all work 248 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,760 like this is a complicated problem that requires a lot of 249 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,480 steps. And financing is also a stage 250 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,000 process when you, especially when you go with private 251 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,720 investors, you're raising a 5 million C ground. 252 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,960 That's enough to get you so far and you have to unlock a 253 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,000 tangible model stone technically and as well as commercially to 254 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:27,600 convince your investors and new ones to then allow you to to 255 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,720 raise additional funds to go to that next step. 256 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:37,040 So sizing that milestone in both in time and scale correctly with 257 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,880 the funds that you have and and the time that you need to do it 258 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,360 in to keep their interest is is really important. 259 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,520 You get that right? Let's move into the the other 260 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,400 pieces of your of your face face plan here. 261 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,600 So, you know, based on my research, we're looking at some 262 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,080 orbital stuff happening in in 2027 and then moving into 263 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,560 potential space to Earth stuff in 202028. 264 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,920 Talk to us about this d ^3 mission that you guys were 265 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,480 recently kind of pulled into and and what they're doing, what 266 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,240 you're doing and why it's so important to space based solar 267 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,840 power. D ^3, a German company that is 268 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,680 building in space manufactured solar arrays. 269 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,640 They are launching their demonstration mission called 270 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:28,400 Arakis D3 in in February next year to to demonstrate their 271 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:36,240 roll out solar panels that can be stiffened into a rigid panel 272 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,480 in in orbit. So using in space manufacturing 273 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,440 technology. Now they're also very interested 274 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,800 in power beaming and space based solar power. 275 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,920 So they've invited a bunch of companies who have power beaming 276 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:55,360 technology to fly into orbit with them on their mission to 277 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,800 demonstrate, to, to provide a platform for demonstrating in 278 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,720 space power beaming using various technologies. 279 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:08,480 So 5 different companies from Europe and the US are flying on 280 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,119 this mission in February next year. 281 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,800 And Terrace Park is one of them. So they came to Terrace Park and 282 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,599 asked us, are you able to provide a payload for this 283 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:19,800 mission? And when they, when they, when 284 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,040 they asked us, we didn't even have any engineers yet. 285 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,960 And we said, hell yeah, let's go for it. 286 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,119 We. Can entrepreneurial spirit. 287 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,440 Deliver in six months, let's do it. 288 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,600 So that's that's what we did. We raised some money from Angel 289 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,000 investors in order to get moving. 290 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,920 We hired some engineers and in January of this year we were 291 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,600 already making designs for, for this power beaming demonstration 292 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,920 that we'll be doing next year. So we're going to be delivering 293 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:52,160 the demo hardware in just over a month from now so that they can 294 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:53,600 go and integrate it on their space. 295 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,560 So that's pretty sporty for a company that's just started to 296 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,080 be delivering flight hardware for a space mission. 297 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,800 Is that so just to be clear from in that, so that's essentially 298 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:08,120 what you're doing in Portugal, but in in which which? 299 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,560 Which orbit how high? Yeah, is essentially we're doing 300 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,680 in Portugal, but in orbit. This, this demo in space will be 301 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,400 a very short range demonstration, a very small 302 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,640 scale, short range demonstration of power beaming on the 303 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,760 spacecraft itself. So we're not trying to beam 304 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,400 power down to the ground. We're essentially doing a very 305 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,720 similar experiment to what Caltech did in 2023 in orbit, 306 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:38,160 where they put a kind of shoebox size system onto a spacecraft 307 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:43,520 and beam power over 30 centimeters with radio frequency 308 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,400 to show that the technology that we're building for space, solar 309 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,920 power works in space. So Just Spark is doing a very 310 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,040 similar thing and we're going to be sending a shoebox size 311 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,640 transmitter on the spacecraft and we have a little receiver 312 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,840 with a Bank of LEDs on the back. And we're going to beam power 313 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,600 from one side of the spacecraft to the other and light up this 314 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,960 Bank of LEDs, which will have a camera taking a picture of this 315 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,920 these LEDs and and we'll be able to see them light up in space as 316 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,320 evidence of that power being transferred. 317 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,560 So there's five payloads there. Three of them are going to be 318 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,000 wirelessly powering with lasers, doing a demonstration with 319 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,280 lasers and two of them with radio frequency, one of them 320 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,680 being being terrorist spot. Recently we did a top ten of the 321 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,440 the the world's biggest space raises of 2026 and PLD launch 322 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,920 systems were in that. The Spanish company, you very 323 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,400 diplomatically kept saying spacecraft, spacecraft, 324 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,360 spacecraft. Are you using PLD? 325 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,920 Is this SpaceX? Could you say what that 326 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,120 spacecraft is? So D Cube are getting the bus 327 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:55,560 from a company called Astro Digital and it's going to be 328 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,760 launched on a, on a Falcon 9, right chair mission, yeah. 329 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,920 So does the physics change at all between the the Portugal 330 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,280 demo and the in spacecraft demo? No. 331 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,240 So the the physics is is the same and and it scales over 332 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:14,720 distance. And that's exactly what we're 333 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,680 trying to prove and convince people of that remains true. 334 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,000 As you increase the distance, you increase the size of the 335 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,000 transmitter and receiver accordingly according to what 336 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,920 the physics asks you to do. And you can continue to transfer 337 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,360 that power efficiently over that distance, right, And achieve 338 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:39,960 that 80 to 90% capture of the power that you transmit from 339 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,920 your transmitter can be received and captured by the receiver. 340 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,120 So whether you're doing that at 1/2 meter scale on the bench top 341 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,040 or you're doing that at a 500 kilometer distance from low 342 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,720 Earth orbit, that physics is expected to to scale. 343 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,680 So of course, nobody has demonstrated yet that that kind 344 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,560 of distance of hundreds of kilometers. 345 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,120 And hopefully the Japanese will be the first to do that at the 346 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:10,080 end of this year with their OE Sama mission where they'll be 347 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,440 beaming power from space. A very small amount of power, 348 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,560 but enough to be able to capture it on the ground and validate 349 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,080 that the physics is scaling as expected. 350 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,720 So the models that say for the size of transmitter that you're 351 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,160 beaming from at this distance, we would have expected to to 352 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,800 receive X amount of of power on the ground and and show that 353 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,280 that is actually what we get. It's like a like a ratio that 354 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,320 can be scaled and said. If they can pull this off, we 355 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,920 can change the math of the inputs and outputs and it should 356 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,680 scale as according. Exactly that. 357 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:46,680 That's what it says. It's. 358 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,840 It's relatively linear. In fact, as you as you increase 359 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:57,320 the distance, the idea would be to indeed have that that 360 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,960 calculation of what power you would have expected to receive 361 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,480 extremely inefficiently, of course, when using small 362 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,040 transmitters over such a large distance, but at least as close 363 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,120 as possible to the prediction. So that you can then say had 364 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:14,000 that transmitter been 10 or 100 times bigger, I know I would 365 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,480 have received 90% of the power instead of, you know, .1% or 366 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,360 whatever small figure it will be. 367 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,000 So that that will prove that it's an engineering scaling 368 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,240 issue, not a physics issue, in order to be in power officially 369 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,520 over these distances. Just a quick comment to you, 370 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,440 Mark, like these conversations that we have are, are so 371 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,000 interesting in just we're getting this massive lesson on 372 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:44,120 how to how, how big shit happens like in these, in these phase 373 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:48,040 steps in these tip toes from idea to execution. 374 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,240 It's it's, it's fascinating. I want to talk about the 375 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,080 technology a little bit more. So you referenced RF. 376 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,680 We've in our last episode, we talked about RF, we talked about 377 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,440 lasers. There's something that I'm 378 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,760 hearing about this near infrared. 379 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,360 Before we get to the near infrared then because one of 380 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,360 that difference between RF and laser, there seems to be a very 381 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,240 a big confusion about the difference between those like 382 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,560 why are you using both? Why are you doing experiments 383 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,200 with RF and laser on the spaceship? 384 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,520 Could you walk us through the difference is why you're using 385 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,200 both and perhaps where if you had to put all your money on 386 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,080 one, where you'd put it? Well, I put my money on radio 387 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,160 frequency. I have already. 388 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,680 That's what we're doing with Terrace Spa. 389 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,800 So there's different ways you can get energy down from space. 390 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,240 So using lasers is 1 and using radio frequency is another as 391 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,640 the third way which is reflecting natural sunlight with 392 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,320 a mirror and they are companies that are doing that as well, but 393 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,440 typically space for solar power. It refers to sending directed 394 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,000 energy in a directional way down to the earth using either 395 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:59,480 optical lasers or radio frequency, which is in the same 396 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,720 frequency range as satellite communications. 397 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,800 Example. What are the pros and cons of 398 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,120 these two different technologies? 399 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,240 Well, laser is typically done well, it is light. 400 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,760 That's that's what laser stands for. 401 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,960 So it's done either in the optically visible range, so you 402 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:25,560 know, 400 nanometers to to 700 nanometers, or you can go into 403 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,440 the near infrared that you referred to, which is invisible 404 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,280 to the eye, but still the correct, frequent, correct 405 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:37,040 wavelength of frequency to be absorbed by the solar panels on 406 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,960 the ground. And in fact, with near infrared, 407 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,160 it is even the solar panels, the silicon solar panels that are in 408 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,000 use in solar farms today are even more efficient in terms of 409 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,720 the absorption of that narrow frequency range compared to the 410 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,440 broad spectrum of of sunlight. So you typically get about 20 411 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,320 percent, 22% efficiency when you put sunlight onto rest of solar 412 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,680 panels. But if you were to send just 413 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,880 that near infrared frequency, then then you can get a higher 414 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,040 absorption efficiency there. So what are the benefits of 415 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,400 lasers? Well, with lasers you do have 416 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,360 very compact systems to do the beaming and to do the receiving 417 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,600 of the beam. So you can build smaller optical 418 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,520 systems that can send the laser beam down and you can have a 419 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,680 smaller receiver to receive that beam because the light is very, 420 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,920 very columnated. It's, it's a, it's a narrow 421 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,840 arrow beam. So that helps you build smaller 422 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,320 systems in space and smaller systems in the ground, which 423 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,840 which have benefits. Now, of course, the disadvantage 424 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,240 of using light is that things can get in the way of that when 425 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,680 you're talking about beaming power from space to the Earth 426 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,720 because you have an atmosphere. So clouds and weather conditions 427 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,120 get in the way of laser getting down to the ground, and 428 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:01,880 therefore it is not able to provide a continuous source of 429 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,560 energy to us to a particular place in all weather conditions. 430 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,320 Now, that doesn't mean it's not useful. 431 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,840 If you have the ability to move that beam from one place to 432 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,720 another and you have the satellite far enough away from 433 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,560 the Earth, you'll have visibility of quite a lot of the 434 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,760 Earth below you where there may be some clouds in one place but 435 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,640 no clouds in another. And you can move the power to 436 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,440 wherever you have clear skies. And receivers are on the ground. 437 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,160 In the case of lasers, optical lasers, those receivers are your 438 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,840 solar farms that people are building all over the place to 439 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,840 capture natural sunlight. So the company you mentioned or 440 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,080 the deal you mentioned earlier on by by Meta that was announced 441 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,280 earlier this week with Overview Energy in the US, that's the 442 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,240 business model that they have and that approach that they are 443 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,600 taking using near infrared lasers to send power down to 444 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,640 solar films. So why might you use radio 445 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,480 frequency instead? So radio frequency has been what 446 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,760 has been kind of looked at most closely over the decades since 447 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,360 the 70s for space based solar power because it does offer this 448 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,200 all weather capability of beaming energy from space to 449 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,480 ground without the restriction of weather conditions blocking 450 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,640 the passage of that power. So if you choose the frequency 451 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,040 correctly, not only does the atmosphere not absorb it, even 452 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,120 clear sky absorb that energy. When you have weather 453 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:38,640 conditions, there's a very limited amount of absorption in 454 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,600 those weather conditions, meaning you can provide a 455 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,040 reliable energy service from space to a receiver on the 456 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:51,760 ground 24/7 and every day of the year season independent, weather 457 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,440 independent, that that's always been the most compelling reason 458 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,200 for going for space. Space solar power that's enabled 459 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,000 by using radio frequencies in that way because of that, that 460 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,640 capability to to penetrate the atmosphere and in all 461 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,520 conditions. It kind of removes the 462 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,400 coordination problem too that you mentioned. 463 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,840 If there are clouds around, how do you redirect the signal and 464 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,560 move this and move that? And it's just, it's all all the 465 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,280 time on always working, no limitations, piece to the 466 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,200 puzzle. Yes. 467 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,360 And of course with the ability to to redirect a laser beam, 468 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,960 you, you do have that flexibility to move the power 469 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,560 around. But definitely there is a 470 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,960 coordination, but it's also a flexibility that comes with 471 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:38,920 being able to send power where and when it's needed. 472 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,000 Because you have, especially when you're talking about a grid 473 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,880 which needs balancing depending on where the users are and where 474 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,960 the generation happens to be in that moment. 475 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,800 Sometimes you do need much more power in one place than another 476 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:59,080 where power stations are brought online to provide that that that 477 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,920 power when it's needed. You can. 478 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,760 You can have a directed beam that that moves that around in a 479 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,200 very flexible way, which is value added to the grid itself. 480 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,880 So that that's one of the unique characteristics of space based 481 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,440 solar power over any other energy source on planet Earth 482 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,600 simply cannot move power wirelessly in this way across 483 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,960 vast distances. We're talking about between 484 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,320 countries and even between continents. 485 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,960 Power can be moved by the same power plant in in a high orbit. 486 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,200 Jeremy in in to build those USUK relations. 487 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,960 Here's a little cultural nugget for you. 488 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:46,680 So that surge in power in the UK famously whenever England play 489 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,200 football. So you know that football has 490 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,160 two halves, right? 45 minutes each way, half time, 491 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,200 15 minutes whenever it's half time, there's a huge surge on 492 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,480 the grid because everyone puts their kettles on because they 493 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,800 want to make a cup of tea and so they always have to be ready for 494 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,920 that demand. The kettle surge demand the. 495 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,200 Kettle surge in England. It's a real thing. 496 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,400 I I remember visiting a hydroelectric plant in Wales and 497 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,960 they were describing how the fantastic capability of 498 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,240 hydroelectricity, when you open those valves again, within 499 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,120 seconds start to provide a huge amount of energy. 500 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,040 So they've got the TV Guide next to them all. 501 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,840 This was years ago when people used to watch TV. 502 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,240 And the ones who was watching Dallas. 503 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,280 So it's the final episode. Come on. 504 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,280 Oh, and EastEnders was having a break. 505 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,400 That's when Boom didn't to turn up the power station. 506 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,960 So. What a way to what a way to 507 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,160 think about demand spikes and such, so so. 508 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,280 That's just on. That's an interesting thing you 509 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,960 talk about the speed of it. So hydro in Wales, if I assume 510 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:54,320 space based solar power would be a lot quicker than fossil fuels 511 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,240 for example in generating that initial? 512 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,920 Yes, that's one of the the the plus points as well that it's, 513 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,760 it has a dispatchable capability. 514 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,840 You can switch it on and off and you can move it within seconds 515 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,280 essentially by electrically steering the beam from one place 516 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,120 to another wherever it is needed. 517 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,080 As long as there's a receiver to receive that power, you can you 518 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,040 can move it very quickly. You've got something that's 519 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,200 moving quick, nimble new tech and then you have something 520 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:29,200 that's very cemented, tried and true, but also very 521 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,000 bureaucratic. What are what are some of the, 522 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,200 what are some of the legacy regulators saying right now 523 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,680 about space based solar power? And how do they, how are they 524 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,480 thinking about incorporating it? Or are they? 525 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,480 Is it something? Are they saying anything at all? 526 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,080 Yeah, there's, there's various forms of regulation that will 527 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:54,080 apply here that we need to get, get the folks aware of what is 528 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,600 coming and, you know, eventually get them on board. 529 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,720 So there's spectrum regulation. So the, the, the people who 530 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,680 manage the electromagnetic spectrum and tell you what 531 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,320 frequencies you can use and, and which you can't. 532 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,560 And then there's energy regulation as well. 533 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,040 So what what you can connect up to the grid, for example, and 534 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,800 what properties it has and how, how it's going to work, how it's 535 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,560 going to affect everything else around. 536 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,640 So there's various layers of regulation. 537 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,040 There's health and safety as well that we need to to get 538 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,520 regulators to sign off on and environmental regulation as well 539 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,800 for ground, ground receivers in particular. 540 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,880 So all, all of these are, are areas where we will need to get 541 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,280 buy in and and licensing and permissions and approvals which 542 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,640 are today not in place because none of them had been foreseeing 543 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,640 this application of beaming power from space. 544 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,560 Even though this concept is, you know, 50 years old, it's been in 545 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:07,520 the space industry and it's been an, an idea not mature enough or 546 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,200 not close enough to realization to warrant any of these 547 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,320 regulators to spend the time and energy to think about, OK, how 548 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,600 are we going to get this to, to work from a regulation point of 549 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,800 view. But in the last few years as the 550 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,520 activity has been really picking up on this, on this topic, 551 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,280 companies including when I was at the European Space Agency, 552 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,040 we're we were already starting to try to get these 553 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,000 conversations happening with the various regulatory body bodies 554 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,640 like the International Telecommunications Union, the 555 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,360 ITU, for example, for spectrum regulation, where these 556 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,160 regulations are set every four years, new regulations are set 557 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,080 at these meetings that happen with these very irregular 558 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,440 cadence, regular but very, let's say slow. 559 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,440 So it's something that we need to think think ahead quite a bit 560 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,560 about because it will take some time to get the the permissions 561 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,639 to use this particularly as space based solar power is going 562 00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:15,880 to be something that's usable and interesting globally. 563 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,600 It has that capability to be an energy infrastructure, not just 564 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,440 sending power from a particular satellite to 1 country, but to 565 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,639 many countries as as it flies over. 566 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:29,880 So. So we need to think about 567 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,560 getting regulation, ideally at international level, to allow 568 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,520 these systems to be interoperable and avoid 569 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,280 interference and and messing anything up for existing users. 570 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,960 Correct me if I'm not understanding this in the right 571 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,880 way, ITU assigns those those frequencies to countries? 572 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,239 Or are they actually assigning those to entities and companies? 573 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,320 So that they're signed and when it's done at ITU that's 574 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,560 international, right. So it's for all countries in the 575 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,360 world have to agree. And that's what makes it also 576 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,800 challenging. But once that happens, that's 577 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,320 applicable to everyone. And then and then national 578 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,840 regulators can then follow that that guidance and make country 579 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,520 specific regulations which are compatible with that. 580 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,280 But there's a there's two separate things. 581 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,240 There's the allocation of the spectrum for certain 582 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:27,720 application, for example, telecommunications or radio 583 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:33,160 navigation or or radar. So there's different bands for 584 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,680 these different purposes. And then in each country they 585 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,240 are responsible for deciding who's using which part of that 586 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:45,280 band for that purpose. So within a telecommunications 587 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,000 band, there can be lots of different companies using 588 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,600 different parts of the spectrum and that is license of the 589 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,040 national level. So it would be like in the 590 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,840 States, it would be like the FCC would handle that. 591 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,760 Piece of it, yeah. And yeah, each country has its 592 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,920 own regulator. OK, I'm not clear on this, so 593 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,840 I'm going to read Jeremy's question that he prepared when 594 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,000 we first spoke though before that we spoke about sovereign 595 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,240 power sources and one of the the uses for space based solar power 596 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:18,240 might be a big data centre. They need their own power 597 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,400 supply. They don't have time to connect 598 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,680 to the grid or they're too far from the grid or whatever the 599 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,800 reason might be. They could have their own source 600 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,720 of that beam down and they could run it like that, which I think 601 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,080 falls into the question that James asking. 602 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,360 So I'm just going to ask the question that he wrote down, so 603 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,360 this will help me understand it. A Luxembourg registered company 604 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,920 owns a satellite in Leo that is beaming power to receivers in 605 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,880 Nigeria. What legal framework governs 606 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,320 that transaction? Luxembourg space law, Nigerian 607 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,840 energy law, ITU radio regulations, the Outer Space 608 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,960 Treaty. So you've covered some of that, 609 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,840 but could you just tell me the answer to that in one word? 610 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,400 So it's, it's similar to data services, right? 611 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:07,240 So we're like in Sat COM where you have a, a country that 612 00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:11,160 launches a Sat COM satellite but delivers bits of data to 613 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,320 different countries. Yeah, they, they have to get the 614 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,080 agreement and license from each country where they're sending 615 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,120 those bits down to because they're using a particular part 616 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,760 of the spectrum that's landing on that country. 617 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,800 And it may be different for different countries as well, 618 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,160 depending on their own individual regulations. 619 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,280 But ultimately, yeah, they are a company a, a global 620 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,480 infrastructure that is having customers all over the world 621 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,400 starting, for example. So we would be quite similar in 622 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,600 that way. In fact also sending some radio 623 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,960 frequency down to different countries, but instead of bits 624 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,920 of information, we are sending watts of, of power to receivers 625 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,520 who are paying for those watts rather than bits. 626 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:03,040 So I, I see a lot of parallels and, and ability to build on 627 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,480 existing regulations and, and frameworks that allow 628 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,920 transactions to happen that way. Now, because this is still an, 629 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,480 an assumption, we, we have not got to the point yet of 630 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,440 discussing that level of detail of, of how the implementation 631 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,800 would be with different countries for, for those kinds 632 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,200 of energy service provision. Yet that will, that will come. 633 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,480 Right now we're focusing on just the the legal framework for 634 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,080 allowing a certain frequency to be used to send energy and 635 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,360 proving that it's not going to disrupt anyone else who's using 636 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,200 frequencies there or nearby. Yeah. 637 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,560 It's the pathway you're looking. You're looking for permission to 638 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,680 use the pathway, right? Kind of, yeah. 639 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,720 Yeah. And and there's two couple of 640 00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:51,240 ways we could go. We could either try to get 641 00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:55,320 secure a dedicated piece of the spectrum just for power beaming, 642 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,160 which would be ideal, but it's extremely difficult I believe 643 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,440 because you know, all the spectrum is kind of spoken for 644 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,280 already for existing usage. So trying to extract that out 645 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,880 from existing usage and saying, OK, this should be for power 646 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,000 bearing maybe challenging. So the other option is to say 647 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:17,280 we'll use an existing part of the spectrum, but that's going 648 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,560 to be fine because we are not going to interfere with anyone 649 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,840 else. And how could that be when we're 650 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,600 talking about sending large amounts of powers? 651 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,080 Because the characteristic of the frequencies that we are 652 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,520 using is very different to telecommunications because we're 653 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,880 not sending any data. So we can use a very single, 654 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,240 very narrow frequency band, basically a single tone 655 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:46,600 frequency without any bandwidth around it to send that power 656 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,920 which which allows naturally non interference with other 657 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,480 frequencies nearby because we are not doing communications and 658 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,960 and they are. So at least that's one thing 659 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,320 that of of how. How beaming is done with radio 660 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,040 frequency that lends itself to something you know, positive and 661 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,560 and easier to deal with. Jeremy, can you help me out with 662 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,880 the musical analogy here because Sanjay said the word tone and he 663 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,920 also said the spectrum is full. Help me understand that with the 664 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,800 music analogy because if the why is the spectrum full and how 665 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,520 would it if you use the music analogy of a tone make it make 666 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,440 sense? Think about it is like there's 667 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,120 there's different lanes on the highway, right that cars can 668 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,520 travel down and what and the way I not. 669 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,640 Limited to how many? Yeah, how many is limited, but 670 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,200 it's also like if you have two communication pathways, like 671 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,160 Sanjay is saying, 1 can interfere with each other. 672 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,560 It's called like crosstalk, right? 673 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,840 You could have crosstalk from one to another that like if my 674 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,480 signal's going down 1 highway and you're right next to me and 675 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,080 my signal's too loud, I could affect the quality of the signal 676 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,720 on your end. But Sanjay, does does the power 677 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,400 stuff have there's we don't, we're not worrying about like 678 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,560 TCPIP when we talk about power beaming, right? 679 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,640 It's talk. Is there a difference that we 680 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:03,760 need to think about? Yeah. 681 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,240 So this is, this is not a beam that is encoded with any 682 00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:10,160 information. It's not modulated, right. 683 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,880 So normally you're sending information down a radio 684 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,560 frequency, whether it's for, you know, rate music on your car 685 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:25,600 radio using FM or AM bands. That's modulating a signal with 686 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,240 the information about the music on that modulated signal, 687 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:33,640 whether it's frequency that's changing or amplitude that's 688 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,640 changing, that's the FM, OO, AM and your radio is capturing that 689 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,160 frequency, capturing that wave and extracting the information 690 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,200 from the modulation that's on it. 691 00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:49,760 Now with power beaming, you're not sending any modulation of 692 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,440 that frequency, and the receiver is just capturing that wave, 693 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,360 that radio frequency wave, and converting it into DC 694 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,800 electricity. So Mark, my, my head goes to 695 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,840 Willy Wonka. You remember the little the 696 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,920 little section in Willy Wonka where Mike TV gets beamed from 697 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,040 one section to another, where the chocolate bars being beamed. 698 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,560 So on the on the receiving side of the and we're not trying to 699 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,160 put Mike TV back together. It's just a just some power 700 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,360 that's coming across that's turning into something that 701 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,160 doesn't have to be made into its original form. 702 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,480 Is that close? Is that, is that a dumb analogy? 703 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,920 What do you think, Sanjay? Yeah, I think that kind of kind 704 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,000 of kind of works, yeah. Yeah, I understand that. 705 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,840 I was just more more about the amount of tones in the spectrum 706 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,280 if if it's full. So when I said full, I meant 707 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,760 not, not that it's all being used by people beaming 708 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,840 frequencies in the entire spectrum, but the the allocation 709 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,160 of the spectrum. So this gigahertz of frequency 710 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,440 up to this gigahertz of frequency has been allocated to 711 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,800 different uses already. So in the, in the ledges of the 712 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:10,840 ITU, they say that we've all agreed that 5.8 gigahertz to 5.9 713 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:16,760 gigahertz is going to be used for X purpose, right, Whatever 714 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,680 it happens to be. Now, how many people are 715 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,120 actually using it in that range in a particular country will 716 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,440 depend on what services are being used in that country. 717 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:31,440 So in a, in a in the middle of nowhere, in a small 718 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,320 underdeveloped country, that spectrum may be available 719 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,040 because nobody's using it, even though it's allocated for use 720 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,280 for telecommunications, there may not be anyone actually 721 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,200 sending those frequencies around because there are no services. 722 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,600 And then another country like in the US or Europe, that may be 723 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,360 100 radio stations wanting to use that tiny band. 724 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,720 And so they all have to make sure that they're not cross 725 00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:59,880 talking by within that country getting allocated a sliver of 726 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,200 that that band for their particular radio station. 727 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,560 So everything is being allocated for some kind of use or the 728 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:14,400 other and and power beaming was not ever envisaged to be one of 729 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,040 those uses, so it doesn't have its own place right now. 730 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,680 So we either need to create a space for it, which means taking 731 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:29,400 away from something that's already existing, or show that 732 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,440 we can coexist with some other use case, whether it's 733 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,160 telecommunications, whether it's radar or Earth observation, 734 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,680 whatever it is, we show that we can coexist so that we don't 735 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,120 need to have a separate allocation just for us. 736 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,960 That could be an easier that. Could be an interesting plan. 737 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,880 Could be an interesting plan. Future experiment. 738 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,200 When you're beaming, you know power from one side to another. 739 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,320 You have some kind of data going across really, really close by 740 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,720 or close by frequency to show lack of degradation of signal 741 00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:04,400 and that is that plan. Is the next. 742 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:05,160 Yeah. Yeah. 743 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:06,840 We've, we've, we've done that. Yeah. 744 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,640 So we did that kind of very impromptu and ad hoc in that 745 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:16,200 2022 demonstration that we talked about before down in 746 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,720 Airbus in Germany. While we were beaming this power 747 00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:25,400 beam, 2 kilowatt power beam at A at a power density of 500 watts 748 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,480 per square meter, which is quite high. 749 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:34,440 We flew a drone into the beam, right. 750 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,480 And this drone was operating at 5.8 gigahertz, which was the 751 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,800 frequency of the power beam and this drone's video. 752 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,360 And that was so the control, but and this drone's video signal 753 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:52,880 back to the receiver was also at 5.8 gigahertz and there was no 754 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:58,040 impact on the control of the drone, no on the videos feed 755 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,400 that was coming through. And this was commercial devices 756 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,320 never designed to be sitting inside of 500 watts per square 757 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,440 meter power beam at that same frequency. 758 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,560 And it just showed us that systems that are designed for 759 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,600 communication, where they're looking for a signal modulator 760 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:21,200 signal and extracting that data, can not mind that there is an 761 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,120 unmodulated signal right there at that same frequency up to a 762 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,160 point. Now, if you get to really high 763 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,920 power levels, you have a risk that that carrier frequency 764 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,200 itself can just put too much power in that burns some 765 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,200 electronic devices. Now, this didn't happen in this 766 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,000 case, but at least from an interference point of view, it 767 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,000 showed that they appear to be numb. 768 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,320 And what one of the things I did while I was at ESA as well in 769 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:51,040 the Solaris program was to initiate AR and D activity with 770 00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:54,200 University of Portugal, one of our partners now with Terrace 771 00:46:54,200 --> 00:47:01,240 Park to actively study how power beaming could avoid interference 772 00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:07,240 with say Wi-Fi and 5G signals. And they did a systematic study 773 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:14,120 to show that that showed that a power beam can coexist with 774 00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:18,040 these existing telecommunication uses without interference. 775 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,880 And that was a very positive result that that showed with 776 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,440 experimental evidence that coexistence is possible. 777 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,480 Now we need to do this with more realistic devices from different 778 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,960 providers, consider sat com signals as well, not just 5G and 779 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,200 Wi-Fi. And kind of broaden the scope of 780 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,160 our testing to really gather that data to eventually present 781 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,240 to regulators and the wider industry who are all going to be 782 00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:47,040 naturally concerned about whether their operations are 783 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,400 going to be affected by something like this. 784 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,240 To convince them that hey look, we've looked at it, we've tested 785 00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:54,920 it and it's going to be fine. Got it. 786 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,080 I got an idea for the Terror Spark music festival in 787 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,000 Portugal. So you have yeah, the stage 788 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,920 being powered. Yeah, yeah. 789 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,840 So I, I've done some fun experiments related to, you 790 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,240 know, latency and music and live performance and all of that. 791 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:12,560 But you have, so you have the, the, the power beaming, powering 792 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,920 the stage. And then you could actually take 793 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,840 the monitor signal, the signal chain from the stage monitor 794 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:22,000 back through a streaming mechanism. 795 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,880 And do you like an audio live stream on it or even a video 796 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,320 live stream on it in the same spectrum that you have the power 797 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,720 beaming? And that way you could have this 798 00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:32,320 real time. Hey, it's powering, but it's not 799 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:33,480 degraded. It's kind of like what you did 800 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,080 with the drone, but you could do it musically. 801 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,000 It could be pretty cool. OK. 802 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,200 We'll have a think about that. Yeah, that could be a real time 803 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,520 non interference demonstration as well. 804 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,040 What's exciting, I I love I I love the update. 805 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,360 Sanjay, thanks for thanks for joining us and thanks for 806 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,680 sharing and about the Terror Spark music festival. 807 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,560 That's that's going to be something pretty powerful. 808 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,360 It has a definitely press worthy. 809 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,160 It brings the cultural side of what what the world loves and 810 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,800 music and and and help demonstrate your technology and 811 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,280 man that the energy that you have now, the entrepreneurial 812 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,920 spirit you're kicking down doors, you're taking names and 813 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,040 we we can't wait to see what happens in the future. 814 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,960 Yeah, thanks very much for having me on again. 815 00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,720 It's been a been a real pleasure to to share with you. 816 00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:25,320 And yeah, I'm, I'm glad that enthusiasm that I'm feeling is, 817 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,240 is coming through because this is really exciting. 818 00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:31,440 And especially moving at this space, it's kind of making my 819 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,600 head spin because, yeah, it's just so liberating to be able to 820 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,520 to get stuff done like this. Could we give you the floor for 821 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,840 one minute? So the world is listening, the 822 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:47,240 politicians are listening, the power brokers are listening, Joe 823 00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:51,360 Public is listening. My in laws are listening, my 824 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,440 friends are listening. Pressure. 825 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,720 One minute Sanjay, no pressure, but sell them the space based 826 00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:03,680 solar power dream, vision, future. 827 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,640 Wow, this is not a dream. This is happening. 828 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,640 This is next generation solar. That's all it is. 829 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,800 You know, solar's absolutely wonderful. 830 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,840 We're so lucky to have the sun give us all this energy. 831 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,760 We're doing a fantastic job with capturing it now with ground 832 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,000 solar, and we'll continue to do that in the future. 833 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:32,520 But there are even better ways that we can get and harness this 834 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:37,880 wonderful resource of of the sun, and that's by putting these 835 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,800 panels where the sun is most available, most intense and 836 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,400 most, most reliably providing us that power. 837 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:52,480 It just so happens and that it's very, very offshore up up in 838 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,680 orbit. But at the end of the day, this 839 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,480 is solar power that is going to be a big part of our future. 840 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:04,280 It's going to be able to give us reliable, abundant power to be 841 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:09,160 able to transition away from legacy sources and generate that 842 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:15,200 power that we need in future to improve our standard of living 843 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,440 for those that don't have enough energy and maintain that for 844 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:23,400 those already doing that today. So it's, it's definitely the 845 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:28,160 future, it's coming and we need to more people to be aware of it 846 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,120 and talk about it and, and support it. 847 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,640 And then we'll, we'll, we'll see that lovely sun juice coming 848 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:38,200 down to earth in a, in a fantastic new way. 849 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,800 Sanjay Vijendran, Tara Spark, thank you for thinking on paper 850 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,680 with us today. It's been wonderful. 851 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,720 We'll stay in touch. We'll let everyone know what is 852 00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:50,720 happening. If you're listening, if you've 853 00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:54,720 enjoyed this, if you've learnt something, if you have spent an 854 00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,920 hour of your time thinking on paper about space based solar 855 00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:02,040 power and you want other people to listen, please share this 856 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:07,720 episode with two people today. Two people, one person you like, 857 00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:11,360 one person you don't. And until next time, be 858 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,000 disruptive. Stay curious. 859 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:14,560 Keep thinking on paper.