Hey guys, welcome back to Another Chatter's episode.
Great to have you here. Amy, how are you out of 10?
The answer is 4 Why? No I am.
I'm 8 out of 10 Blair and is little like.
Cheeky. Always, Yeah.
I'm gonna actually release. Don't do.
Don't do that one. And I had one for you today, Did
you? I was gonna say, Happy
Valentine's Day. Oh yeah, happy Valentine's Day
to you too. Did you remember?
I remember that it was a thing. I remember where it was.
Today, Happy Valentine's Day, babe.
Yeah, you too. Yeah.
Not Valentine's Day. No, we're not, unfortunately.
Well, not really, unfortunately. Well, is it?
Because this is a conversation that we need to have.
No great. Thank you guys for tuning in.
Amy, how you got a 10? Eight.
Yeah, that's eight. What about you?
Cool. I reckon I'm a 90.
Nice. Yeah, I, I actually thought I
was going to be lower, like, you know, when you go to bed.
So we went to bed kind of late last night.
Why did we go to bed late? Yeah, that's what I was going to
because that's why I thought I'd be lower.
But I'm actually kind of chipper.
But maybe maybe that's good, maybe a little bit lower because
I'll toddler really felt like to go there had a.
Hard drop off so I'm surprised. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that was hard. So I totally just didn't want to
go to daycare today was he was really upset.
But last night I was. We we just finished the TV
series Narcos before. We finished the 1st 2:00.
First two seasons, sorry. And so we went and we were
looking up information about it because it's based on a true
story, and I clicked on this one link.
Yeah. And, well, you know what you
think I was. Going to I was just going to
talk about how you're so hooked on narcos that you keep.
Oh yeah, that's one thing. Is like I struggled to go to bed
because I'm like I need to know what happened.
What happened? But I clicked on this one link
and then my phone looked like like his.
My phone was under attack. So I closed it all down, shut
the phone off and then got this like malware checker thing and.
Everything was fine. Look like that's fine, but
anyway when he freaked out. Just a little PSA.
If was it in the cafe Public service now?
Thank you. If is it McAfee?
No, it's not McAfee. We were laughing about how that
sounds like McAfee, like the McDonald's cafe.
Yeah, MCAFE or something like that.
The malware. No way.
Yeah, check out Thing. That thing, if you have a random
pop up and you don't actually have that installed on your
phone, there apparently is a scam where they pop it up
pretending to be that thing. And I think that is my yeah, I
think it was it. It might not.
Even be an actual. Something something.
And so you clicked block and then it went freaked out.
Anyway, that's fine. We're OK for now.
We made it. We'll find out probably what
happens with that down the track, but hopefully it's all
good. Well, welcome back to honey.
We need a chat. This is our chit chat episode.
If you don't, I don't know what chit chat episodes are.
These are the episodes in between the full episodes where
we discuss a topic or something we're working on and it's a
little more practical and a little more applicable to where
we're at as a couple or something that we find really
important in relationships. So today you get to chit chat
with us. This season, we want to be
really intentional with not just being a podcast.
We're really aware that there's so many voices out there.
There's so many voices in the podcast space, in the
information space, in the relationship space, and that's
great. There's so much information for
you to be consuming, to be learning and growing.
I find myself putting a podcast in, listening to it, and then I
take my headphones out and then I go about my day and it kind of
goes out my mind. And so every now and then that
there'll be a nugget and I'm like, yes, that's so great and
it'll actually impact my life. But for the most part, I'm
consuming content all the time, very quickly, very fast paced.
And we do not want, we're not doing this podcast for the sake
of just being a voice view here and blah, blah, blah.
We want to actually be challenging people's real life
relationships and strengthening people's real life
relationships. And we're strengthening and
challenging our own relationship through this process.
And so we've been trying to brainstorm how we can we
introduce elements to the podcast that are immediately
applicable to people if they want to, that the people can
take on a challenge or take on a practical thing immediately in
that day to even just gently test out how things are going or
how they can go. So we're introducing a new
segment at the end of the episode, Stick around for that.
It's going to be called the Reality Check Corner.
And it's all about how we can take what we're talking about
and immediately implement it in easy, manageable, not huge, big
long ways. Because that's the other thing
for me is I'm like, I don't have time to be implementing this big
5 step process or anything like that.
So just quick, palatable implementation ways so that it's
not just a thing you've heard and you're moving on throughout
your day. It's a thing you've heard and
you're, you're challenging yourself that day to put things
in practise. So listen out for that.
And today we're going to be talking about something called
communication loops, communicado loops, even some people might
say. So we're going to talk about
some of the some of the things that you might see repeating in
your relationship if you keep finding that you have the same
argument or the same conversation, you keep getting
stuck in the same patterns, or even the unspoken arguments or
the unspoken disagreements, unspoken patterns that you just
keep coming back to. That's what we're discussing
today. We're discussing what they might
be and we're discussing ways that can help you break out of
those communication loops because you don't have to stay
in those loops for the rest of your relationship.
Encouragement in the which is the encouragement.
We've also got a really interesting story that I
stumbled upon this week that was really encouraging to me.
So I'm going to talk about that a little bit later.
Stay tuned for that. Just how much relationships can
turn around. And I think we have a bit of a,
I don't know, I think maybe we have a little bit of like a give
up mentality. I don't know what the official
phrase is With stuff like this, when we find ourselves really
deeply stuck in the same patterns over and over, I think
it's really easy to just be like, it's never going to get
better. This is how it is and not really
put time into being intentional to bring it around.
And I genuinely believe with all of my heart, and we've seen it
in our relationship that you can work through those times where
you're stuck. It's not just a matter of like,
this is how we are now, and we're never going to get through
that. So this is an encouraging
episode. This is an episode to encourage
you that if you found yourself in these patterns, these things
can shift. And it's really important to be
putting intentionality behind it.
Blair doesn't know much about these communication loops, so
I'm going to stick through what they might be and how you might
find yourself in one. So let's begin.
Let's do it. So communication loops happen
when couples repeatedly get stuck in the same argument
conversation, emotional pattern. Internal conversation is my
little add to that as well without resolution, they're
finding themselves in the same patterns of interacting all the
time. So spoken loops, you might find
out loud arguments you might find you're having is like the
same fights about money, parenting, intimacy, chores,
those kinds of things, those classic arguments that just come
round and round in relationships.
Things that you're like at the very beginning, like, oh, we
don't see eye to eye on this or where we don't do these things
the same way. And so they just kind of sit in
the back burner and then they come back as you go and they
don't really fix themselves. They just kind of sit out of
sight and then all of a sudden it'll come up again when there's
a financial strain or something like that.
Another one is a partner who always shuts down.
And we've spoken about stonewalling.
So it'd be the same kind of thing if there's a pattern in
your relationship where one partner is always shutting down
or both partners are shutting down.
And so the communication loop is that you can't communicate
through it because there's a stonewalling element to it.
You're shutting down and you're not engaging with it.
Or there's one who pushes really hard to have that conversation.
So like, especially if you've got one person shutting down and
another like hounder, is that the word hounding?
And they're just like constantly pushing at the same thing, Like
we need to talk about this, talk about this or pushing their
side. That can be a communication loop
as well. And apologising just to end the
fight, which is a really interesting one, is also a
communication loop. Because if you're just
apologising to appease me because I'm upset about
something that doesn't actually bring resolution, that's a fake
resolution. And it can look peaceful.
And especially depending on how the person does it, it can look
like, oh, we got a resolution. It's not really because you're
not internally, you haven't come around, you haven't got
resolution and closure in that space.
You've just, you've just been like, all right, whatever, I'm
sorry if I won't do it again. And that's not healthy.
And it's not actually communicating.
It's just a fake shiny, nice looking thing on the outside.
So there's also unspoken, like I said, silent loops.
And this one I think is something I really wanted to add
into this conversation because I fall into these things all the
time. My internal world is very loud.
And so I'm constantly internally processing as we spoke about
recently, I think it was on our Chatters episode, a lot of the
time you're like, I don't know what's going on in your head
because we asked the question of like on Chatters, we were
saying, what would you like? Patreon episodes, yeah.
Yeah. What would you like to know
about the other gender? And you're like, I want to know
how your brain works because a lot of the time I don't know
what's going on. And that's really for me, my
internal world is very loud. And so you can have internal
unspoken loops that you get stuck in.
So things like, I already know how they're going to react.
So I'm not even going to go there.
I already know what they'll say. I'm not even going to go there
because I can't be bothered navigating that.
And I think a lot of the time that's based on fact, like like
isn't based on experience. So you may actually know they
often react this way, but even when it's based on experience,
it's a very limiting thing to be like, I know how they're going
to react. It's not worth it because you're
not giving them the benefit of the doubt, but you're also not
allowing yourself to process what you need and stand up for
what you need or, or feel free in your relationship to have a
voice. And you're also not letting
your, and then you're like carrying the bitterness towards
them unfairly because you haven't actually let them have a
voice in that either. So that's a really common one.
I already know how they're going to react.
So you don't bring it up. The secret resentment cycle is
another one where you're irritated at your partner and
you don't actually say anything. And if I'm honest, this is what
I've found. Resentment's a strong word, but
this is what I find myself falling into.
Like if I get hurt by something or irritated by something, I
wouldn't say it partially because I, I grew up with this
like really strong desire to not rock the boat.
And I don't want to say that. And I've spoken about that one
here before. So then, but instead, it doesn't
go away. Like the thing that's hurt me or
whatever that sits badly with me or that's irritated me, whatever
it might be doesn't go away. It just sits there.
And so then it's like this, like it just builds and snowballs
into lots of things. And a lot of the time we've
found that when we have a conversation, well, I've found
when I've had a conversation with you about the thing that's
irritating me, all the other little pieces just fall away.
Yeah. And it's not as big of a deal as
I thought it was. When you, like, sit there in
this resentment cycle, it builds and builds and it starts to
encompass everything. And then the reality is not
everything is encompassed in that.
So that's also an unspoken loop you might find yourself in.
So if you can hear this background noise, our golden
retriever is very upset with us because it's raining yes, this
morning. And she, we didn't take it for a
walk. So she's brought a little toy
pig in and she's chomping. She's.
Each and the squeaker. So that's helpful because at
least she's not. She's also playing the guitar
with her tail. Don't let me.
I can go out there. Ow, now she's just gonna keep
going. The mental scorecard game is
another internal loop that might happen.
And I think again, this is one a lot of people do without maybe
realising it. And it's tracking everything you
do versus what they do, but never voicing it.
And I think there's like this reel that, oh, it's not even one
reel. So many people have made this
reel where it's like when I decide I'm going to go off my
phone and be present and I put my phone down and then I just
stare at my husband who's on his phone or something like that.
It's such a like classic issue. Like all of a sudden I'm like,
I've been on my phone too much. I'm going to put this down and
then they're still on their phone.
And so it's like. Oh.
OK, You just always on your phone and I feel like that is
such a constant thing in relationships.
Like I did this and this and then look at what you're doing
something and just even even when you're not trying to be
conscious, like you're not trying to score it up, you do
have a score of these things. And we've had conversation.
I can't think about the topics that we've had it, but I know
we've had conversations where we're like, I've been doing this
and you haven't or something like that.
And then the other person's like, I've been doing that and
you haven't. And it's just wild because
perception is crazy. Like you interpret things so
differently. It's crazy.
Anyway, that's one other loop. And then the last internal
unspoken loop is the avoidance habit, which is choosing silence
over potential conflict. And this is similar to I already
know how they'll react And also stonewalling.
And this is definitely something that I've had to work on just in
general, instead of actually tackling the issue or the
disagreement or the unnoticed thing, you just choose to be
silent and not. But that again, is just going to
build resentment. All these things are loops we
find ourselves in and the reason reason we find them in the
reason we find ourselves in those loops could be a variety
of things. It could be that you've had
really bad experiences growing up, could be that you've had bad
experiences in your relationship, could be that you
you just haven't ever learned how to communicate well.
There's a lot of reasons for and I think a lot of couples would
have communication loops that they have in their relationship,
but I think it's really important to identify what loops
you might have so that you can then do some things to
counteract them when you're communicating I.
Think it's identifiable. Also, again, we've mentioned
before about having that intentionality and that
commitment to it. So we hear a lot of, you know,
one, one side of the couple. How do you say that like one
person, the couple, one partner, like wants to address these
things or talk through these things and the other persons
either not really willing to see it or recognise it or just not
really committing to it. And that can be quite hard of
like, well, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, there's no
interest from your side. I'm carrying all the weight
here. I'm wanting to do something.
There's a number of different things that can feed into that
and we won't go into all of them because we're not experts in
this space, but just from what people have been sharing with
us. But one big thing is, again, how
do we bring it up with our partner?
And like, I think sometimes, you know, we've both fallen into the
category, gone to the trap of saying you need to do this more,
you need to do that more rather than again, having that five
year plan, right? Like that five year vision that
you did a little while ago about where do you want to see
yourself in five years? Where do you want to see that
relationship in five years? So doing like having an
intentional night like like that, like an intentional date
night at home to set the tone and to explore that I think is a
really good way to start the conversation and try and get you
both on board. Because I can get, it'll be very
rare for someone to just not want to do that at all.
Some, a lot of guys need permission and a safe space to
explore that rather than feeling critiqued and judged.
And then likewise, I'm with women as well, but I'm just a
guy and I speak more to guys. So I can only come from that
perspective. But yeah, I think setting the
tone is really important. There's one thing to identify
these things. Yeah.
It's another thing to commit to doing it and being you guys
being on the same page with addressing those.
Things yes and if you've just listened to this bunch of like
communication loops and been like, oh, that's what my partner
does yeah, you're falling into one of these communication
loops. You're constantly projecting and
not necessarily reflecting, reflecting on what you're
bringing to the the conversation.
So that that's given you your answer, maybe one of your
conversation loops. Can you explain just really
quickly what the five year plan thing was just like briefly, so
in case anyone doesn't hasn't heard that.
Absolutely. So what Amy did, did we do it on
an episode? I think we did it on a chatters
episode. I'd have been chatting.
Also, just a quick plug to Patreon, if you're wanting to
dig, dive deeper, dig and dive and deep deeper onto the topics
that we talk about, we do that on our chatters.
We do that as a community of people just wanting to explore
and to encourage and to, yeah, unpack these things and sort of
give tips to each other and stuff like that too.
So jump over onto our Patreon and and join that that awesome
community over there. Essentially what we did was we
sat down and you just map it out.
Like, did you get me to close my eyes?
I think it was. And we're actually gonna do
something like this at the end of the episode, too.
So also stay tuned. So close my eyes and it's like,
well, like picture five years time.
Where do I see myself in terms of my career, my family, my
house, my location? Like there's a bunch of
different things and so writing that down and then asking the
question, well, what do I need to do to get there?
And that really helped with our conversations like, well, where
do I see our marriage in five years time?
It's like, so putting all of those things in there and how
that all fit in together was actually really fun exercise and
helping with clarity and, and prioritising and seeing actually
I am putting my work above my family sometimes or vice versa.
Well, that which is not a bad thing, but it's just like, you
know, just that balance and everything.
It just helps you get that bit more of a picture of what
you're, what you're aiming towards and and where you're at
in terms of that goal. Yeah.
And what is so wild to me is that like if you were in, well,
people in their careers, people in businesses, people that are
starting up projects, whatever it might be, you have you do
this like you strategize, you have a vision you're working
towards, you're clear on it, you reassess it.
If it's not working, there's like, what is it KPIs that
you're checking along the way to make sure you're going OK, But
for some reason in the most important relationship of your
life, the thing that is the foundation to how you're doing
in your career, how you're doing in every other area of your
life. We don't do that.
Like it's just like we just think you get married or you get
together and you just coast. That's not how the things
happen. That's not how you get stronger.
I think there's a misconception that if you, if you need to put
work in, then it's not right. That's not true.
I. Mean so many workplaces as well.
They do like team building exercises.
They they do like personality tests to work out how that works
within the team. So there's a lot.
Of professionals come in to talk.
Exactly. Yeah, you go up healing
workshops and all this sort of stuff which help, but in
marriages or relationships? So often we don't.
It's a second, second thing with more priority on our work growth
rather than our. Relationship and if we can get
that time in, cool. But if we're not going to really
go out of our way, I'm too. Tired for it again.
It just drops the priority down and Bonnie, I do not want your.
Slobbery pig, Your slobbery pig. You're bored.
Cool. So these communication loops are
damaging. They're dangerous for obvious
reasons. They might not feel dangerous
and that's that's why we're addressing this now because I
think a lot of these things can feel super innocent or not that
big of a deal. The issue is like you've just
said, 5-10 years down the track, these little separations that
you have now, these little moments that are not being
worked on, they're going to become big gaps down the track.
And unless you put that intentional time in, yes, it
might feel like a small thing that this is the loop you're
stuck in or that this is the thing you can't raise with your
partner because you know how they're going to react.
But in five years time, it's not going to feel so small.
In 10 years time, it's not going to feel so small.
So that's why it's important to address these things.
Now, these things are dangerous because they might make
feelings, they might make problems feel unsolvable, which
creates distance. So you feel like we can't get
over this thing. We can't deal with this problem.
There's this topic that just we've never been able to solve
this topic, so we just avoid it. So it can start to feel again
slowly at the beginning, it can start to feel unsolvable, which
just causes distance down the track.
They reinforce negative assumptions like they don't
care, they never listen. I don't know how many times I
have thought about I've either been in conversation with people
or I've seen people talking or on Reddit all the time, but also
within our relationship unknowingly to myself.
I think you should know the thing.
And so often there's a foundational little key missing,
which is they don't really understand what this means to
you. You haven't really communicated
this super clearly. Doesn't take the ownership off
the other person, doesn't mean that what you've done isn't a
negative thing. But until I explain to you what
it means to me and why it's important or why it's hurt me or
just give you that context, it's not fair for me to assume that,
you know, so many times that little key is missing.
We talked about that with Bryce in our last full episode.
People that just assume that's what that's what all the ROM
coms are based off. That's what horror movies are
based off. Like that's why there's stories
in those places is because people assume.
And so it just reinforces negative assumptions.
These communication leaps, like they don't care, they don't
listen, they never change. They're just going to be this
way forever. That's not necessarily true.
I think a lot of the time we haven't put the effort in to try
and see if it can change if they do care or given them the
benefit of the doubt. It also keeps both partners
stuck in old roles and reinforces that so that no one's
growing. And especially if there's like a
bitterness between what's being done in the house, for example,
not communicating properly, having a communication loop
around this is just going to keep those people stuck in those
places and then reinforce it, which will then cause more
communication issues down the track, more hurt down the track,
and it doesn't allow space for either party to grow.
I think another thing that I've wrestled with growing up is so
my father was a beautiful man, but he had some very intense
quirks about him. And there's a lot of mental
health stuff going in. But we, I used to work so, so
hard to make sure that nothing rocked his boat.
Like I didn't want him to get upset.
I didn't want him to be put out because I just, I was stressed
about how he would react. And I came to this realisation
when I was a young adult and I was stressed about it.
I was like, if I keep fixing this for him or if I keep
avoiding this for him, he doesn't have the opportunity to
grow. Like I'm actually impacting his
opportunity to grow. He's still responsible for that,
but I'm not responsible for making it so that he doesn't
have to deal with that thing. And I think in relationships we
can find ourselves in that place too.
Like I don't want to put them out or I don't want to get them
upset or they don't react well when I say this, so I don't want
to say it to them. And we are not responsible for
making sure that our partners, you don't have to face the
difficulties. That, that carried across into
our marriage as well and our relationship.
And you've worked really hard on that in our first episode back
for this season. We, you shared that about, you
know, during our busy time with, with, you know, between the
season breaks about how you would shut down and you wouldn't
say what you needed to say because you didn't want to rock
the boat or you didn't want to get me offside or whatever else.
And then in that time it helps because your patience was a lot
less. And so you're like, no, I have
to say this because it's, it wasn't even just a matter of I
need to get better at saying stuff.
If you didn't say it would have affected you 10 times more.
I. Didn't have capacity exactly.
Yeah. So I would have like really,
really weighed on you way more. So you've had to work on that
quite a lot. And I think that's quite an
important process or yeah, process.
I'll stick with it of, you know, what are we bringing into our
relationships? Like what are past hurts, past
experiences and whatever else. And that's where self reflecting
is, is extremely important journaling and sitting down and
use ChatGPT to help ask a bunch of questions to help you explore
that. What are the stuff that you're
bringing into the relationship that you don't want to?
Yeah. And there might be causing hurt
and whatever else. Because again, like, like you
mentioned before as well, if we're only focusing on the
negatives of our partners and not reflecting enough on
ourselves like that, it can be very damaging as well.
Absolutely. And if you're finding these
patterns or repeating, one good way and maybe semi neutral way
to go about the conversation is to explore why your partner
reacts that way or even more importantly, why you react that
way. So having a curiosity about what
it is that's in the past for yourself and for your partner
that has meant that these patterns come in can be a gentle
way to start that conversation or to start that exploration.
Because we don't just randomly pop up like this the way we are,
where the way that we are because of our experiences and
our personality and our insecurities and all the things
that play into that. And there's reasons for those
things. So when you can explore that
together, you get closer and you, you understand yourself
better, you understand your partner better.
You have a whole bunch more grace for how they might be
navigating things. And it just is, it's a good
activity for you guys to be connecting.
So these are all the things. These are all the reasons why
these communication loops are dangerous.
Everyone has communication loops.
Just to clarify, like if you've been listening to this and
you're like, oh, I've got these, does it, That's everyone has it,
but we don't have to be stuck in these.
And I think this is so important.
We do not have to be stuck in these.
And as we said with business and workplaces and all these things,
we assess and we change and we pivot and we put processes in
place and we bring in who we need to bring in to make those
changes. And it's the same thing here.
You assess, you pivot, you, you'd be like, OK, this hasn't
worked for us, let's change it and project yourselves 5-10
years on the track. Where do we want to be?
Do we want to be like this but worse?
Nope. Cool.
Well then we need to actually change.
It's not going to change itself. We need to actually put things
in place to change it. I'm so encouraged by the story
that I heard last week because it's a perfect example of this
happening. You see, change happened on
small scales all the time and hopefully within your own
relationship you've seen that as well.
But I heard the story last week about someone that she'd been
in, she's been really struggling in her marriage and to the point
where she was at the at the point, like talking to her
friends about like, I don't know if I should stay with him.
Like it's so rough. Like he, he's very busy with
work, difficult in law relationships and he does not
help around the house. She's carrying all the weight of
the house. She's also carrying all the
weight of this difficult relationship with his parents.
And he's not like, you know, intervening there, helping,
supporting there. She's far away from her support
network. She doesn't even like what
they're doing for work where they are like all these things,
like pretty dire, horrible things.
And, and fair enough to be at the point where she's like, I
don't know if I don't know. And she's even communicated with
him before. You know about these things like
this isn't long term. We can't sustain this.
This is not good. I can't stay doing all of these
things. I can't be alone in this and all
this stuff like really dire position.
And so she was she was really at the point where like, I don't
know, I feel empty, don't know what the future is going to be.
I don't know if I should just leave.
Like I don't know what should happen.
And she went and visited her mom and stayed with her mom for a
little while. And while she was there, she
said to her, look, I'm really thinking about leaving.
Like, I don't know what to do. And her mom just like stopped
and was like calm. And she's like, you know what?
I think you need to spend some time appreciating what your
husband has given you and appreciating who he is.
And so. And when I heard this story, I
was like, that's a bit of a slap of the face.
Like he hasn't done much to deserve that necessarily, but I
but I was really encouraged because she said that that whole
like the whole month after that, her relationships just turned
around. She spent time being like, okay,
actually he's given a lot to our family.
He's given me these kids, he's given me a life I never could
have dreamt of. You know, he provide, he works
very hard. He has to navigate these
difficult dynamics with his family and me.
And instead of focusing on all the things he wasn't doing, she
spent time focusing on the things he had given her and he
was doing. And also things that he was like
the things about him that she loved and the things that she
couldn't even see anymore because she was so stuck in this
place of desperation, Which is fair enough.
And what was crazy was when she started to focus on those
things, her mood lifted and something has shifted.
And now her husband has just, like, come back alive as well.
He's engaged with the family. They're like, in such a good
place. And I don't tell this story
because I think if you change your attitude, your partner's
suddenly going to become a good person.
And I also don't say this because if you're struggling
with all those things I just listed, it just means you should
change your attitude. That's magically going to get
better. That doesn't happen that way all
the time. But I was encouraged by this
because when we navigate these communication loops, there are
so many layers to them. It's easy for me as someone
hearing that story to think that husband is horrible, that
situation is horrible, and she really should leave because I'm
hearing it from from one, for one, from one perspective.
And also because I'm seeing it like 2D.
I'm not living it. But to see how much changing her
attitude shifted it for her alone was super encouraging.
Because regardless of how things turned out, regardless of how
her relationship landed, it's still incredible for her to be
able to have process those things.
And gratitude is a huge tool. It's a huge tool.
Taking space, taking a pause is a huge tool in in constructive
approach to everything. I think that's big too, because
like hearing that I'm like, oh, straight away my mind is like, I
mean, there's going to be some listeners like for that story to
be like, so you're saying that she needs to be grateful, like,
and, and I think just to clarify, what you're saying is
that if we only focus on the negatives, we're going to focus
on the negative. So not to roll over and accept
the bad treatments that you get. That's not what you're talking
about. What you're talking about is
like, all right, if you actually want to make this work, if you
haven't been able to identify the goodness from that person
and focus on that for a bit, like explore that.
Like, you know, how am I just like, now looking at you, for
example, we made this more relatable.
Am I looking at you and just identifying all the things I
struggle with? If that was the case, I would
get so toxic so fast and I would struggle with you so much.
Yeah. But you're saying is if you
focus on the good as well, like have a good focus there, it does
really, really shift our approach to the circumstance, to
the relationship. And it helps you actually assess
that properly rather than I'm only focusing on the negative.
It's going to be a negative relationship.
If you can see the positive in it and it outweighs the negative
and it's so healthy, that's great.
Yeah, exactly. And I don't know this person
well enough to know the intricacies of how accurate her
story side is versus his story side or any of those things.
And I'm not even going to try and pretend like I could make
that up. But exactly what you've said,
you shifting your your approach to things, being stuck in that
place where you cannot find a different perspective or you
can't find gratitude or you can't find space, even mentally
means you're stuck in a loop. You're stuck in some kind of
loop, either a deeply hurt loop because of literal things that
have happened to you, or this built up loop that we talked
about earlier where everything is snowballing and actually not
everything is as bad as it seems, but there's like a big
communication gap from something that you've worked on.
There was a few things I loved about it.
One was she changed it for herself.
She didn't change it for him and then he's stepped up to the
plate. So obviously something is
healing in how they're communicating now, which is
beautiful. She changed it for herself,
which she deserves to change it for herself regardless of the
outcome. Because who wants to go through
this horrible situation, not have it be a positive outcome in
the end, and then also have all this built up resentment, this
this clogged up mental space going on.
Like, you being able to work on those things is so beneficial
for yourself and for your kids and for the people around you,
regardless of if the outcomes what you want it to be.
The other thing I loved was that her mom, like, encouraged her to
take a pause and reflect. And it would be so easy as a
mom, like hearing the story. I would be like, yeah, leave
him. How dare him Like you?
Just have so much better. Yeah, exactly which which
obviously we're going to feel that about the people that we
love. But I love that she was like,
you take this time and pause and reflect.
I think that's so healthy and constructive.
Again, regardless of the of the outcome.
But the real reason I want to share this story is this is an
example of how relationships can turn around.
Like you can see this is an extreme example and a very quick
example, but you can see massive change in relationships by just
putting little places and things in place.
And you do not have to be stuck in the same loops going on going
forward. So we're going to talk a little
bit about some tips on how we might navigate switching some of
these communication loops. Absolutely.
So first one and Amy's going to explain them.
I'm going to read the titles because I have a special role.
Pause and reflects before reacting.
Yeah. So this is a really
straightforward 1, and we've spoken about this before.
I think taking, taking some time before you react, pausing and
and reflecting before you react, especially if you feel like the
argument's brewing, If it's a communication loop and you know
you can feel it brewing, you're like, no, here we go, here's a
loop. Taking a second to pause and
reflect before diving right in to that loop and asking
yourself, what's my pattern here?
That's really important too. I can feel this pattern coming
back. What's my pattern in this
pattern? And just reflecting before you
respond. An example is, do I always get
defensive or do I always shut down?
Yeah, just taking that time to reflect before you just jump
right into the pattern again, because breaking a loop is done
very simply by pausing, not letting it just keep going like
this, pausing and reflecting before you keep going.
Yeah, I think the last episode we spoke about like taking that
5 second breath before reacting. So it's like, right?
Yeah, we were talking about knowing what your partner wants.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So taking a 5 second pause before oh, that's right, in in
fix it mode, fix it mode, yes, rather than.
So for me, rather than going strange to fix it mode when
you're trying to share something with me, I take that 5 second
pause to think through it like all right, what is needed for me
in this situation? And the response is usually
asking the question how do you to respond in this situation?
And the second tip is change the script.
Yeah, so similarly to the first one, but if you always respond
in the same way, then change it up.
If we, I think the definition of insanity is trying doing the
same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
And it's the same thing here. If you keep finding the same
loop happening over and over, change it.
Like change up how you react and so change how you respond.
An example is saying instead of saying you never listen, try
saying I really need to feel heard right now and I love that
shift. I feel like that's such a small
shift for the same story, like it's the same point you're
making, but in a gentle way that is like a bit more enabling. #3
is Bonnie just moved these stop points for me?
She just wants attention. Try the thankfulness reset.
Yeah. So like we spoke about in that
story earlier, trying to appreciate your partner.
So write down three things you appreciate about your partner
every day for a week. I've done this challenge before.
As I said, it wasn't with flair, but it was really helpful.
It was because if you can't find gratitude, and gratitude is
helpful for the other person in terms of you've got a more
gentle approach and you're appreciating them, yes, I feel
like it can be misunderstood to be all about the other person.
It's actually really important for your body.
Resentment or a lack of gratitude in your body causes
physical changes and causes physical damage.
So it's really important for you and for your own mental health
to be finding gratitude. If you're not finding yourself
not being able to interact with your partner in a way that is
grateful for anything, who you are, who they are, where you're
at, whatever that is, trying a thankfulness reset and genuinely
every day trying to note down things you're thankful for can
be really important for switching that up and noticing
the good actually changes how you interact with them.
And like we said, these communication loops and
relationships are layered. So yes, they may be doing some
really not helpful things in a relationship, but there's so
many layers to how you're interacting.
And if you're noticing of the good changes how you interact
with them, you have no idea what the on flow could be from that.
Next one is and I love this one. We say this a lot, but ask a
curiosity question instead of assuming.
Straightforward instead. Have an attitude of curiosity.
You know, and everything. And we, we said this, we repeat
this quite a lot. So if I'm struggling with
something like, you know, you ask me a question of like, well,
what Like what are you thinking? What are you going like?
It's a lot more than accusing as well.
So it's, it's this is assuming, which I think is good too,
because I think a lot of the time, right, like I, I'll like,
if you're, I feel like you're low or something, I'll be like,
Oh, I, she's low. I can't talk about it.
She doesn't want to talk about it.
She just wants me to be quiet. Like, you know, if I leave in
that space and then you're probably thinking, why isn't he
asking me any questions? Why isn't he caring in this way?
Why isn't he curious in this way?
Why is he engaging? So yeah, having an attitude of
curiosity. So for example, I had a
conversation with someone recently where their partner is
disconnecting quite a lot at home and it's like, all right,
cool. Well, like, and again, it's
assumptions. They don't care.
They don't want this, they don't want that.
But I'm like, I can guarantee there's something a lot more
going on for them then they just not like just don't want to be
there. Like that's not that's not from
my perspective what it would be. But we don't know until we.
Ask. Yeah, exactly.
And like we spoke about earlier, the curiosity behind why you
interact these ways, This is the example that we've got here is
can you help me understand why this is important to you?
Understanding what motivates or what brings your partner and or
you most importantly actually to that place is is really
important and can be a really nice easy way of kind of easing
into that conversation rather than like you always do this or
something like that. Yeah, so.
In a different sense too, like I've, I've actually started
doing this with my boss, right? So he'll give me a task or
something. I, I don't really get it.
And a lot of times like I'd be like, I would go away.
Am I cool? I'll say, alright, I heard you.
And I go and do it. I'm like, I know what to do.
Is this what he wants? And I'm spending more time
trying to figure out if I'm doing what he wants me to do
rather than clarifying that from the beginning.
So I asked the question of like, all right, so just so I get out,
what is the purpose of this? Like, why are you wanting this?
So he told me what he's wanting, but I need to find out why he's
wanting it. And that's really shifted my
confidence in what I'm doing, too.
There's a lot of guys as well. They share about how, you know,
I'm doing what they've said, and it's not enough.
It's not enough. And it's like, I think we missed
the why. Yeah, like why do they want that
to be done? Why is your partner actually
asking that of you? Maybe they're feeling neglected
in some way. Maybe it's like the mental load
stuff they're feeling and, and there's a lot of things in that
place. So asking in, in not a smart
way. I don't be like, why?
Why do I need to do it? Yeah, but like, no, genuinely
like I just so I, I, I hear you correctly, 'cause I wanna do
that. Like, why is this important to
you? Because I, you know, it should,
might be obvious. It probably should be obvious,
but for me it's not. And I think that's probably
another big thing too. And I'm gonna finish this ramp
very, very quickly. But for a lot of guys, if they
feel like you, you know, so sometimes, and again, probably
women too, but I can't speak from that perspective.
If you came to me, Amy, and you said I want you to do this, and
I'd ask you why. And your attitude is you should
know, like you should know this. That's going to throw me
straight away because it's going to make me feel dumb, right?
And it probably is dumb. I probably should know this, but
the fact is that I don't. And what's more important is
that, you know, and that's a question.
What is more important in this scenario is that you make me
feel dumb and you just disgusted in me.
Roll your eyes. Or that response or the fact
that we actually deal with this situation, this at hand.
You know what I mean? Like that's that's the more
important thing. So for you giving me that space
to ask that question and to be dumb and to be vulnerable is
really important for me to ask that question to truly
understand what it is that you're wanting from this rather
than for me to just do a task. You know, if if I didn't do
dishes and you said to me, can you just do dishes?
Well, that's not the dishes aren't the end of it.
You know, I mean, I'll start doing dishes, but then you'll be
cranky about something. Not not that you do this, but
you might be cranky about something else, right?
And like I'm doing all the things you're asking.
What do you want from me on this?
Like the mental load that would be the answer, yeah.
Like it'd. Be mental load it's.
Why do I have to tell you every time that you do these things?
Yeah, that's so true. And the question of instead of
being like, you should know this, like, what do you want out
of the situation? What's the result that you want?
Is the result that you want your partner to be like, I should
have known those things. I don't know these things and I
should know them. Or is the result that you want
that you guys get closer? And I think that tiny shift in
mentality can be huge. Yeah, and I can, I can be like
very real here. I did not know how to treat
women for the longest time. And I still, I'm still learning,
obviously, but it honestly, there was something that
triggered for me. I was like, you know, I was so.
So clueless, I hurt women, I offended women, I was
inappropriate with women because just did not get it.
I didn't know what I didn't know.
Like I didn't know that was wrong.
I didn't know that it was, you know, you don't do that.
And it really took. And so for me, a big shift was
happening. I was listening to this sermon
series on on song of Solomon's in in the Bible and and it was
real. It's really about marriage.
And this couple is really freaky Nicky stuff in there too.
But, you know, and it just shifted and it was so apparent
to me how little I knew. And that just was the start of
my wanting to know like I'm like, I don't want to be like
this guy. I want to be the best husband I
can be. I want to be the best partner I
can be. I want to be the best dad, all
that sort of stuff. And that was the setting of my
trajectory to get better. Like I, you know, again, long
way to go still. But for the guys that are
listening, like, I think it's one thing is like, all right,
just be aware that you don't know.
It's OK. If you're aware that you don't
know you want to do something about it.
There's not OK if you sit in ignorance and not like assess
that and, and look at that and look at yourself in that way and
be willing to actually improve. That's what's probably not OK.
But just wanted to put that out there.
I don't want to be coming in preaching at this like you
should do this sort of stuff. There was a time where I was
absolutely terrible, like I have shame around this area of my
past. And so I just want to put that
out there for those that are listening and, and might feel
similar. Yeah.
And I think on a, on a like even broader scale, all of us don't
know what we're doing until we are doing it.
So I think especially in in marriages or relationships where
like the, I feel like girls are just raised as we've spoken
about before and really speaking to be a little more emotionally
connected and a little bit more emotionally like tied to how
family dynamics go. Also generally speaking, raised
a little bit more aware of things that need to be done
around the house or like, I don't know, there's just
something in how girls are raised versus boys.
Well. I think it's this change and I
think this culture is changing. But back in the day, I mean,
because what we inherit all those things, right?
So back in the day, like the men would go to work, that was their
job. Women would stay home, that was
their job back in the day. And now that's shifting.
That takes time for that culture to shift because we see like we
follow, we naturally follow what we've seen in our parents,
right? So then that is now shifting and
we're the ones that are shifting it for our kids, you know, but
but it that shift takes time because again, like, I don't
naturally see what you naturally see because I didn't see that.
But that's the clarification I'm making is I don't naturally see
it because I just was born naturally seeing it.
No, even even people that are. So if you're looking at a
relationship, yeah, if you're looking at a relationship and
it's out of whack in terms of what someone is capable of, I'm
putting Bunny ears with that. That person that's the more
capable person wasn't capable in that space initially.
They had to learn too. And I feel like especially when
you become parents, I saw this a lot in the parent groups.
The early parent groups are a part of.
A lot of dads, generally speaking, did not know how to
look after their babies the way that the mums did.
And you could see the systems and that's what that Blair's
whole work is around this. But you could see the systems in
place that helps bring mums up to speed on how to raise a kid.
And obviously things like breastfeeding, that kind of
thing, like gave them a, a very, very swift entry to that point
too, that dads don't have. But anyway, there's these
systems in place that brought moms up to speed, but the dads
were left behind. And so then there became this
massive gap because the dads are like, I don't know how to do
that. And you know how to do that.
So I'm not going to try, but there's an attitude between the
couples that was interesting to me because for one thing, the
dad would, I don't know how to do it.
I don't want to feel dumb like you've said.
So I'm not going to put myself out there.
Then also, a lot of the times the mom would be like expecting
them to know what to do and, and when they miss things or when
they didn't want to try or when there was some kind of
insecurity playing out. The frustration at that, which
is just contributes. Is it?
It's a massive mess basically is what I'm trying to say.
But the encouragement in that is none of us knew what we were
doing until we started to learn what we were doing, even if it
was just from childhood and we were kids raised in this space.
Yes, we've got the upper hand in terms of being we've been doing
it longer, but we still had to learn that.
So if you're in a relationship and there's a mismatch in that
space and you're and you're the one that's like, I just feel
really stupid that I have to learn these things now.
Like it feels like such a general tiny thing and I don't
even want to go there because I just feel stupid to have to
learn how to look after a house when I'm 30 something years old
or something like that. We all had to learn those
things. So there's so much grace there.
I'm trying to encourage that this is possible.
I'm encouraging the people that feel incapable in that space.
It's possible for them to learn. Everyone had to learn.
I'm also trying to encourage and challenge the people that
already are functioning in that space to have grace and a gentle
approach to bringing them into that space when there's
willingness to learn. Because that will be the biggest
thing, the fastest way to get people more on board and get
people more enabled in that space.
Rather than having kind of an attitude of you should have
known you should be able to do this.
Yeah. And the last one is.
Make our repair attempt early. Yeah, and this is really, really
practical. So I love this one.
Basically, when things start to get tense, when you see that
slippery slope heading towards that communication loop, a small
repair attempt can stop it from escalating.
And a repair attempt is a small thing that you're putting out
there to see if you can, like, quickly put a little fix in
things like a quick joke, lightening the mood.
Be like, all right, we're getting there, let's lighten the
mood. Or physical touch, if your
partner responds well to that. Just to clarify, some people
would be really not happy for physical touch in that time.
Yeah, especially depending on the topic, saying things like, I
know we're both frustrated, but I love you and I want to work
this out. And we've seen that before as
well. Like there's been times where
we've been like starting to loop and then it's like, I love you.
I want, I want to talk through this and find a way through it.
And sometimes that includes being like, right now is not a
good time to do that. Let's come back to it.
So those are some of the practical ways that you can
break free from some of these communication loops you might be
finding yourself in. There are things you can you can
implement yourself or there are things you can discuss with your
partner and you can both be on board with implementing these
things as you go forward as well.
So just to quickly summarise, it was pause and reflect, change
the script, try thankful, thankfulness, reset, ask a
curiosity question instead of assuming and make a repair
attempt early. So that's communication loops.
Nice, looped it in. We're going to do a new little
segment now. This segment is called the
Reality Check Corner. So Reality Check Corner is it's
just kind of breaking that. I think it's 4th wall.
I don't know what it is, something in the theatre
breaking that 4th wall so that we're interacting with you guys
in a practical way that's going to implement in impact your
lives and there's going to be a few little segments.
We're going to iron out how that goes as we go into the season,
but this week we're going to start with some stuff.
First is a prompt that I want us to think about and I'd love you
guys to think about it as well because as we say often on this,
you can hear these things and be like, oh, that's so good for
this person or oh, that's so right.
I know this relationships like that or oh, that's an
interesting piece of information, but it's separate
from ourselves. And we really want to be
encouraging this curiosity we've been talking about and
reflecting on it for ourselves and encouraging you guys to
reflect on this for yourself. So I've just got a little prompt
here that I'd love for you to take some time today, even if
it's right now and you want to pause it or you can do it later
to just reflect on and almost like do a pulse check on where
you're at in your relationship. And the prompt is think about
the last three disagreements that you've had.
What was the common denominator in all of them?
What is one thing that you personally do to keep those
loops going and just sit with that for a moment?
So think about the last three disagreements you had with your
partner and what was something that is similar between the
three, like an attitude, a situation, a tone, whatever it
might be. And then what is something that
you're implementing into that that keeps that communication
loop spinning? Yeah, and if you if you want to
be going along with this exercise with someone again, go
over to a Patreon, become a chatter.
This is the sort of stuff that we're going to unpack together
on those on on Patreon as a community over there because we
want to be again, more than just a podcast.
We want to go beyond just the your ears.
We want to yeah, grow with you. These are things that Amy and I
will discuss on Chatters episode, and we've also put an
option out there for live video calls as well As for a group of
us to catch up and chat. So again, if that's something
you're interested in, go over to Patreon.
The next one is a little challenge for you that you can
decide on your own to implement into your relationship today to
help shift some of these attitudes, and it's called the
six second look challenge. So at some point today, pause
for six seconds and just look at your partner. 6 seconds doesn't
sound like long, but it feels like long.
Fun 234. It's actually taking ages 5-6.
I thought you're about to ask what came after three.
We we once did a challenge. We started to do it.
I think it's like 10 second kiss or something like that.
Do you remember that and like to kiss your partner for 10 seconds
and it was actually so much longer.
Anyway, this is just look at your partner for six seconds.
So you can just pause at any point today when you're
interacting with, especially if you've got kids, you can just be
these ships in the night and not really interact.
Just pause without saying anything, without looking at
your phone, without doing anything else, and just look at
your partner for six seconds. And while you look at them, look
at them like you're really seeing them.
They're not just your spouse or your Co parent, but a person
with dreams and struggles, insecurities, with a life
outside of you, with thoughts outside of you.
Like look at them for who they are for those 6 seconds and then
let those 6 seconds remind you why you're with them.
So just reflect. Are you doing that to me right
now? I feel like you're doing this.
I've done it right now. I know exactly what we're
talking about in China's now, all right.
So just that that can be at any point tonight, even if it's
they're brushing their teeth while you're getting into bed
kind of thing, you just be like, look at him, brush his teeth.
All right. And the last one is kind of what
we're referred to earlier, which is called a future pace in the
coaching world. But it's this projection
projecting, sorry, what you want out of life so that you can feel
and take, borrow from that vision stuff today, the feelings
of it, the motivation from it, the direction from it to
implement into your relationship right now.
So I'm just going to read something and it's going to be
very brief. You can close your eyes if you
want to, or you can just really think about this.
I want you to actually physically visualise yourself in
that place and think about the smells, the sounds, what you see
around you, little details even, like what kind of grass is
growing on the ground or what kind of art is on the wall.
Whatever might be happening. Get as clear as you possibly can
about this picture because the more clarity you have about that
that, the more you can borrow from that to influence your
approach today. So I want you to imagine that in
six months time your communication has completely
transformed in your relationship.
Whatever that thing is that you were thinking about today.
The loop that you get caught in, that has completely transformed
in your relationship and when you talk you both feel seen and
understood and respected. How does that change your day to
day relationship? Picture what that changes, make
sure what the family looks like, what the vibe in the house is,
what your drives together in the car is, what your times together
on date night might be, how you talk to each other, the smiles
of facial expressions you give each other.
Picture what that would look like if those things had shifted
for you. And then I want you to ask
yourself, what is one small thing you can start doing today
to move towards that vision in six months time?
To borrow that those feelings, those things you want.
Borrow that from that future into today and what you want to
be doing to make that future possible.
So that is the end of Reality Check Corner.
Love it. I'm like looking forward to it.
Yeah, I think there's some like, little tiny movements every day.
It's the same with exercise. Like we don't just like, go from
nothing to 100 running a marathon.
You do little bits every day to build up that muscle.
And even if you are the only person in your relationship
doing this, you're not just doing this for someone who's not
engaged and not not wanting to be there.
You're doing it for yourself as well, so my encouragement is
every single person can implement these things in a way
that can bring a constructive approach, regardless of the
outcomes. That's good.
One last quick thing to finish off on.
Would you rather? Let's do it.
Would you rather have to start every argument by singing your
point in opera style, or have to settle every disagreement with a
game of rock, paper, scissors? Was like wanted by settling
every decision. Ohhh yeah rock paper.
We do rock. Paper scissors in our house a
lot for the kids for. The kids when they're arguing is
like ohh like on who's first? Like, alright, rock, paper,
scissors. And it works so well for them.
And they're like, OK, well, they said, yeah, I think, I think
rock, paper, scissors. But then I'm thinking about some
of the disagreements are a bit more serious than rock paper
scissors. Yeah, I know, but I think it
would still be like. It would bring a levity to it.
Yeah, I feel like I would. I wouldn't want to have an
argument. If I yeah like I'd be.
I would avoid. That well, maybe that's good
then. No, you're right.
And it would also make maybe make it maybe make too much
light of the disagreement if you're opera singing.
Yeah, Cool. All right, guys.
Well, thanks for being here. Good chat.
Yeah. Thanks guys.
We'll catch you later.