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Welcome back to Go Again honey, 
we need to chat. 

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Hello. 
Hello, welcome back to another 

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episode of Honey. 
We Need to chat. 

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I have a button. 
I've got a button and it's good.

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It is. 
Glorious. 

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Hack your Yeah, our car is going
wild. 

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Ferguson, Michael Jordan Cable 
control yourself. 

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Hey guys, welcome back to 
another episode. 

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This podcast is all about the 
importance of communication in a

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relationship. 
We believe that when 

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communication dies, bad things 
happen. 

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So we want to encourage you as 
we encourage each other to be 

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prioritising communication in 
that relationship, to be 

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learning different ways to 
communicate, learning how the 

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other person receives 
communication, all of the 

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things. 
So that's what we do in this 

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podcast. 
We are so pumped to have you 

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here. 
So thank you so much for that. 

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And Ferguson is in trouble. 
Yes, welcome back. 

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We are going to be discussing an
important topic today. 

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Yeah, it's it's something that 
is relevant to us. 

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So we really try and bring 
relevance to these episodes. 

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Not that we just spit out random
things, but things that we've 

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worked on and had to work 
through. 

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So we've gone through one of our
most popular episodes was our 

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episode on Mental Load. 
That's about like, who's 

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remembering, you know, to, to in
the dentist appointment, who 

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remembers what the kids 
allergies are? 

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Who's remembering, you know, 
where we're up to in the food 

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process and who's taking in what
sort of food and all this sort 

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of stuff. 
It's the load, the unsaid 

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things. 
So I gave an example that, you 

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know, I was trying to grow in 
this area. 

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So I'm like, cool, I'm going to 
go do the groceries. 

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I'm going to do the groceries 
for Amy. 

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Amy, what do we need to get? 
And I'll go get it. 

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And I was putting a mental load 
onto Amy rather than actually 

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helping the situation. 
I just created a different 

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situation. 
So I. 

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Had to come up with the 
groceries. 

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Yeah, Amy had to come up with 
the grocery list. 

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I did the shop, that was great, 
but I'm still putting that 

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mental load onto Amy. 
So there's another area we 

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wanted to discuss today. 
So there's different loads, 

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there's the practical load, 
there's the emotional load. 

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But today we want to talk about 
another load that plays out in 

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relationships called. 
The social load the. 

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Social load. 
Social relationships, social 

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lives, it's a load that is often
unrecognised. 

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I think it's not necessarily 
something that you hear as a 

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trigger word or like a trending 
word, but you will probably have

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seen it play out because every 
relationship navigates their 

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social lives and their 
friendships that the community 

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area of their life differently 
and has different dynamics that 

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play out. 
And we've found dynamics that 

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have played out for us. 
We've also heard and been in 

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communication with our friends 
who have had it play out totally

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differently for them. 
But it is a factor and something

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to be aware of. 
So we wanted to talk about what 

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happens when you're in a 
relationship and the social load

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is not balanced. 
But before we jump into that 

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episode, well into that topic, 
would you rather all right, I'm 

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just having fun with these 
buttons. 

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Sorry, first one, would you 
rather your partner claps every 

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time the aeroplane lands? 
I I I giggle to this one or your

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partner hisses at people that 
who cut in in front of you in 

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line. 
Oh, I actually like both of them

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a little bit either. 
You clap when we land, Yeah? 

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Yeah, I was. 
I had you in mind here. 

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I'm like, you would get so 
anxious if I got frustrated with

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someone. 
If. 

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If it was like out of control, 
especially if it was a really 

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intense situation, yeah, 
especially if I was like, that 

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person could really hurt you. 
I think I'm the clap one as 

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well. 
I think because the clap one is 

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embarrassing. 
It would be, but I got 

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distracted. 
I had to go get the spray bottle

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because Ferguson was nearly 
bumping over the camera. 

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So anyway, if I didn't finish 
this, I'll finish it now. 

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I think with the hisses one it 
just is the aeroplane 1 the 

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clapping is embarrassing. 
The other one is like tense and 

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tense is more. 
I don't like tenseness. 

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Like I prefer embarrassment than
tense and. 

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The hissing one could escalate, 
yeah. 

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Plus the hissing 1 is a 
negative, whereas the clapping 1

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is kind of. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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Yeah, Yeah. 
That's a good point. 

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And not offensive to anyone all.
Right, next one. 

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Would you rather always feel 
like you're about to sneeze but 

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never do? 
Mm, hmm. 

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Or always feel like you have a 
single hair stuck in your eye. 

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This is a hard one having. 
Your hair in your eye is not 

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fun. 
Nearly. 

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Sneezing and not sneezing is not
fun either. 

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I don't know. 
I've got an answer. 

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I would rather a sneeze. 
I sneezed earlier and there's a 

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bit of a sneeze that's 
enjoyable, like a feeling that 

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I've bad to sneeze. 
You're like, oh, this is kind of

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nice, but it's annoying, but 
it's kind of nice hair in the 

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eye terrible. 
This is annoying, so I would 

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prefer the sneeze I. 
Think I totally agree with you. 

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I don't know what part of the 
sneeze is slightly enjoyable. 

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Look like when you that feeling 
like when you I. 

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Know the feeling because. 
I because I got this question 

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down before I actually sneezed 
so I was actually super aware of

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me sneezing and that time I. 
Enjoyed the moment well. 

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It's not that I really enjoy it 
like this amazing experience. 

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It was like, well, that feels 
kind of cool. 

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I. 
Wonder if it's the relief that 

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happens after a sneeze that that
I. 

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Mean that's good, it triggers. 
The feeling, yeah, I I think I. 

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Just enjoyed the whole moment 
in. 

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Terms of a pain scale, 100% 
sneeze, but I'm wondering if you

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could cover an eye that has a 
hair in it and relieve the 

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pressure because having to 
always sneeze would make you be 

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like distracted constantly, 
yeah. 

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Once I I got a piece of metal 
stuck in my eye when I was 

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grinding and that you you had to
get it picked out as a whole 

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gross thing. 
But then I had an eye patch and 

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it did relieve some. 
It was better, but you kind of 

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what you're saying is lose an 
eye or nearly sneeze. 

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But forever. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, I don't know. 
So you like if you put an eye 

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patch on, yeah, it will relieve 
it, but you're losing an eye it.

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Also depends on at what point of
the nearly sneeze you're stuck. 

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If it's like then you can't do. 
Anything. 

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Well, it's not that you have to 
do that face thing. 

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Yeah, I think you do that face 
thing because you're trying to. 

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You're embracing the sneeze. 
You're getting ready to do it. 

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It's. 
Just that tickle in my nose, 

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then yeah, definitely the 
sneeze. 

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All right, would you rather have
a constant 2 second delay on 

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everything you hear, or A2 
constant 2 second delay between 

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your brain telling your body to 
move and it actually happened? 

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I think I'd rather the delay in 
moving 'cause I I just get into 

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a rhythm of planning around it. 
Look, I have hearing problems as

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it is and it's extremely 
frustrating. 

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Like I feel like I've already 
got a 2 second delay and trying 

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to register what people have 
said is really annoying. 

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The only thing with the moving 
one is it's more dangerous. 

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Probably more instances where 
you need to move immediately. 

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Then yeah, let's. 
Just say you're in a perfect 

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world where there is no danger. 
Then yes, yeah, they're hearing 

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they're moving on, moving. 
One would you rather have? 

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This is the last one would you 
rather have a clown horn go off 

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every time you sit down? 
Oh, have a sitcom laugh track 

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play every time you stop 
talking. 

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The laugh track. 
Yeah, love track. 

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Yeah, the horn would be too 
intense. 

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Yeah, I'd work. 
I'd work it. 

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Yeah, the clown. 
Horn you'd actually just line up

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your end of your conversation to
have a punch. 

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Punch line, everyone. 
The end of my sentence. 

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But the clown horn. 
I think you'd have to explain it

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every time. 
Yeah. 

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You sat down and be like, it's 
not me, it's the. 

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It's the horn. 
Yeah, it's some. 

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It's the. 
Horn, Yeah. 

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Anyway, good ones we've been 
nailing these would you rather I

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actually really want to make 
sure we're getting them out to 

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you guys because I want to hear 
your answers Yeah to these 

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things we. 
Actually really appreciated it 

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over from the last episode. 
We had some people write back to

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us, Oh yeah, and saying what 
they would pick out of these. 

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So if you're listening, do that,
Write that in the comments. 

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If you're on YouTube, you're on 
Spotify. 

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I think you still do comments or
socials or whatever, anywhere we

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want to know. 
Yes, we do. 

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Even if you want to just DM us 
the answers because you're too 

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embarrassed, do it. 
Do it. 

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All right, well, let's dive into
this social load element. 

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The reason we go through these, 
I want to call them mental load 

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topics because it is a part of a
mental load. 

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It is part of mental load is 
it's so it's so relatable. 

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And like Blair mentioned 
earlier, it was our best 

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performing episode and best like
episode with feedback because 

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it's just the mental load one 
was because it's so it explains 

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so much of what goes on without 
being spoken. 

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And so that's why we really like
to highlight all these different

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kind of facets of how it might 
play out. 

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And the social load one is 
specifically relevant to us. 

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We've gone through it and we're 
still going through it because 

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we're still relatively new to 
this area and we're still 

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relatively new to our new church
and just a few other things like

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that that we still, you know, 
have kind of a fresh perspective

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on the social side of things. 
So I think it's a really 

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important one, but there's a few
ways it plays out for people. 

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And like I said, it's different 
across the board, but there's a 

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few different kind of angles it 
might be playing out. 

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So one is the practical social 
load, similar to mental load, 

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meaning practically one of the 
partners carries the burden of 

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maintaining arrangements to 
catch up with people, 

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maintaining their kids social 
lives, responding to invitations

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for things, being the contact 
for planning events and you 

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know, managing, especially when 
you have kids in the mix. 

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Remembering kids, friends names,
remembering kids friends 

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dynamics, dietary, like all this
stuff practically that comes 

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into having a social life. 
Absolutely. 

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And I think sometimes, like, for
me, I would fall into this trap 

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quite a bit because, you know, 
when you were having kids and 

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you weren't working, like in my 
head, I think I was naturally 

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like, well, you'll take care of 
that because you're not working.

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And then I had this year where I
was staying at home with the 

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kids and you were working. 
I'm like, hold on, hold on a 

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minute. 
This is not the same like me 

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staying home with the kids was 
working. 

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So we had to really work 
through. 

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Well, you, you still take a 
brunt of a lot of stuff, but we 

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share on different loads 
different. 

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Well, yeah, we we share on 
different ones, right. 

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So like you will take most of 
the social calendar, especially 

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with the kids and things like 
that where I'll take mental logo

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for food and what we're eating 
or whatever else. 

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So we have those conversations 
going through, but we need to 

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start having those 
conversations. 

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And I really took a for granted 
until I was able to experience 

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what you were experiencing 
staying home with the kids. 

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And certain people will find it 
more natural to just fall into 

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those roles, either because of 
who they are and their 

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personality and their 
preferences or because of their 

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situation. 
So like you said, when I was 

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home with the kids, I was 
actually the one that would go 

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out most of the time with the 
kids or or be interacting with 

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friends. 
You didn't have as much free 

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time for that. 
So it's not a bad thing. 

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It's not to say, oh, it's not 
working. 

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Well, if one person is doing 
more than the others, the 

228
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,160
reality is it's never going to 
be fully balanced. 

229
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,760
Yeah. 
It's not about having it 

230
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,560
perfectly balanced. 
It's about that conversation 

231
00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:21,880
and. 
You're, it's about being aware 

232
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,640
too. 
It's about being aware what it 

233
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,000
is. 
So for example, for me, I now 

234
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,320
have a tool to check in. 
It's like, Amy, how are you 

235
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,680
going with the social load? 
Like, is this too much? 

236
00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:33,440
Like if I start seeing Amy 
getting overwhelmed? 

237
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,560
And so if I'm not actually 
checking in to see how she's 

238
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:38,160
going, then you're just gonna be
overwhelmed. 

239
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,440
And and so it's giving you the 
conversation or tools to work 

240
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,800
through that together. 
And a big one for us, the 

241
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,880
probably the biggest way that 
this played out was when it came

242
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,320
to not so much anymore, but when
it came to social dynamics. 

243
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,680
I carried the weight of a social
dynamic a lot more than Blair 

244
00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:57,720
did in terms of tension or 
pressure or making sure people 

245
00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,640
are happy or making sure I'm 
saying things the right way. 

246
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,640
That was a big concern for me. 
And so one of the practical ways

247
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:08,240
that was overwhelming and is no 
longer that big of an issue is I

248
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,600
would kind of own that process 
for my own social dynamics and 

249
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,640
my my own family. 
And that would include planning 

250
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,280
things, inviting people to 
things, making sure I'm 

251
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,520
communicating what I need to 
with my family. 

252
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,080
And then there was times where I
would then be doing the same 

253
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,440
thing for your side of the 
family. 

254
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,200
And then I'd just be like, I'm 
too burdened with making sure 

255
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,320
everyone is happy. 
And I think there was a lot of 

256
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:28,920
mental health stuff going on 
with that too. 

257
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,040
But that was a practical way of 
it's, it's not just that I have 

258
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,320
to do that. 
It's that then I'm like carrying

259
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,440
the burden of making sure people
are happy. 

260
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,960
And so then they were like, can 
you respond if it's your family 

261
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,920
or your friends or can you 
communicate, communicate this 

262
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,280
thing that's probably super 
simple, but just just 

263
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,560
communicate it because it's 
weighing on me. 

264
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,920
Yeah, a little bit more. 
So that was a practical thing 

265
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,080
for us that, yeah. 
It was understanding what each 

266
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,080
other bring to it, right. 
So there'll be some 

267
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,880
conversations that we need to 
respond to where Amy's like, Oh,

268
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,680
it's just shutting me down. 
Like I just I know what to say. 

269
00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,560
I just don't know how to say it.
And then I'll say it like I I 

270
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:05,240
don't have issues as much as 
like just getting it out there, 

271
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,320
but there I then go take it 
backed Amy. 

272
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,320
I'm like, all right, cool. 
So you struggle with that. 

273
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,800
So I've got to this point now I 
need you to make sure that I'm 

274
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,360
not offending anyone being too 
blunt, right. 

275
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,160
So it's that team effort in 
that's just one example. 

276
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,160
That's how it played. 
Out for us, like, like we said, 

277
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,560
it's not going to be that way 
for everyone. 

278
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,480
Yeah. 
The other twist on the practical

279
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,560
social load that could be 
playing out as well is one of 

280
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:31,120
the partners not feeling freed 
up to have their own social 

281
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,240
life. 
Yeah, again, probably plays out 

282
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,400
a lot when you have kids and 
probably more so with mums that 

283
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,160
feel like for whatever reason, 
there's lots of reasons it could

284
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,200
be they are not free to have 
time to themselves or to grow 

285
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,440
that side of their time. 
And I know the guys at Dad's 

286
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,000
group have spoken a lot about 
this as well, that they didn't 

287
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,400
feel OK asking for time because 
of everything going on. 

288
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:55,440
Yeah, so it's like we call it 
Doug and there's gonna be mum 

289
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,200
guilt too, but we're dads, 
right? 

290
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,960
So we make it relevant to 
ourselves. 

291
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,960
But we call that dad guilt where
it's like, well, I feel too 

292
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,920
guilty to go out and socialise 
because you've been at home all 

293
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,080
day with the kids. 
Like I, you know, you go out. 

294
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,520
And this was definitely my 
attention when we had our first 

295
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,600
kid. 
I was like, I didn't go 

296
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,120
anywhere. 
I went to work, came home and 

297
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,640
that was it. 
Because I just felt so guilty 

298
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,360
that you were stuck at home all 
the time. 

299
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,360
So we really prioritise you 
going out and things. 

300
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,200
And yeah, that didn't, I didn't 
do it. 

301
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,760
Over time, that became harder 
and harder, yeah. 

302
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,640
So you might be finding you 
carry the burden of planning it 

303
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,160
more, or your partner carries a 
burden of planning that more, or

304
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,800
you might be feeling like you're
not freed up to even plan 

305
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,480
anything, so you're pulling 
back. 

306
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,720
So that's one way is the 
practical side of social life. 

307
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,600
But this I think is the more 
complicated side of it, which is

308
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,040
the in the moment social 
dynamics or social load. 

309
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:54,520
So in the moment of socialising,
there's an imbalance in the load

310
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,600
carried and the the tone that's 
brought to the table. 

311
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,240
So this might be playing out 
like you go out with friends and

312
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,160
your partner doesn't engage, or 
you feel like you have to carry 

313
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,440
your partner through the social 
engagement, the social 

314
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,400
connection because they're 
withdrawing themselves. 

315
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,720
They don't come at all. 
You go out and your partner 

316
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,920
stays home. 
They don't even kind of come on 

317
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,360
board with the stuff that you've
planned. 

318
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,240
They don't bring you into 
conversation. 

319
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,040
So you could be going out and 
your partner is more comfortable

320
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,560
with this group of people and 
they kind of leave you floating 

321
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,400
by yourself. 
You're not really brought in or 

322
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,720
they're not caring for your 
social needs in that moment 

323
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,400
either. 
And it also might play out where

324
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,400
one partner has become the other
person's entire social life. 

325
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,080
And I think this is the danger 
zone with this load because it 

326
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,120
causes so many ripple effects 
where your relationship is out 

327
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,960
of balance in terms of social 
connection or social load. 

328
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,680
And there's a inappropriate 
amount of dependency on the 

329
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,400
other partner in one way or 
another. 

330
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,040
So either to make you you 
comfortable in a position where 

331
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,960
you're not comfortable or just 
to fill their entire 

332
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,000
relationship needs that they 
have and that's not healthy. 

333
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,840
So those are those are two kind 
of ways to look at it. 

334
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,160
The practical, what's going on 
practically or the actual in the

335
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,160
moment social dynamics that are 
at play are not balancing well, 

336
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,240
not healthy, not thriving. 
So what we did when we were 

337
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,360
planning this was looked for a 
Reddit story. 

338
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,760
I went to look for a Reddit 
story or a few Reddit stories 

339
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,920
actually to talk about. 
And there was just too many 

340
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,320
really. 
Yeah, there were so many, and 

341
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,120
all of them valid and all of 
them were relatable, which is 

342
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,880
honestly the opposite issue to 
what I normally have, which is 

343
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,640
trying to find the right 
specific 1. 

344
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,120
And so I decided I got one 
Reddit story and we'll read 

345
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,880
through it. 
But there's so many. 

346
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,920
And it just is telling to me how
much social dynamics play out in

347
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,080
relationships, how much of A 
need this is for a conversation.

348
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,880
We're going to, I'm going to 
read it, and then I want to hear

349
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,920
Blair's reflections before we 
discuss it. 

350
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,160
Just your immediate response to 
reading it. 

351
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,960
So the title is my husband's 
antisocial ways are making me 

352
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,440
resent him. 
We just got invited over to some

353
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,240
acquaintances house for the 4th.
We know these people through my 

354
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,040
sister. 
I thought it sounded like a fun 

355
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,080
day. 
I hesitantly told my husband to 

356
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:04,680
see if I could convince him to 
go. 

357
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,440
His reaction was what I 
expected. 

358
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,800
He immediately said no and said 
I could find a million other 

359
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,480
things to do. 
I've been dealing with this for 

360
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,600
20 years. 
He gets mad if I invite our 

361
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,160
neighbours for dinner who are 
our age and we get along with 

362
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,440
very well. 
Every single time I want to hang

363
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,080
out with people who aren't his 
family he gets irritated. 

364
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,880
I need friends in my life and I 
feel like he hinders this. 

365
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,720
Short and sweet. 
Or maybe I mean I'm so sweet 

366
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,640
short. 
Anyway, what are your thoughts 

367
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,600
on this scenario babe my? 
Thoughts just go towards 

368
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,880
scenarios. 
So I've, I know of people that 

369
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:38,160
have been in this as well, right
where, you know, one partner is 

370
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,960
usually at home and just that's 
all they want to do. 

371
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,240
And the other person just ended 
up leaving because it was just 

372
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,160
too, I don't know, it was just 
too much like that. 

373
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,600
It was just this drain. 
It was this, I need this in my 

374
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,720
life, but the other person 
wasn't willing to give it. 

375
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,600
And then the response was, well,
I'm I'm leaving. 

376
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,880
So it's sad. 
It is very sad and it's not that

377
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,400
those people were bad or 
anything else like that, it was 

378
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,960
just that they loved being at 
home like they would. 

379
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,240
That was just where they wanted 
to be all the time. 

380
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,920
I don't think it was just that 
though, because I think there 

381
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:06,920
was mental health. 
Oh no. 

382
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,319
No, no, for sure, absolutely. 
Sorry. 

383
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,599
And yeah, exactly right. 
But that's just where my mind 

384
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:15,119
first went was like these 
scenarios where, OK, they're 

385
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,480
great, great guys, but just just
wanted to be at home. 

386
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,480
Yeah. 
And but then then you go into, 

387
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,040
if you want to dig into that 
though of the why, OK, I was, I 

388
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:25,480
was chatting with them and 
everything. 

389
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,600
It was so much more behind the 
why, but it just, yeah, it was 

390
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,320
just, that's where they were. 
I think it's a common dynamic 

391
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,480
that plays out and it's it's a 
symptom of more and it doesn't 

392
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:39,920
even necessarily look like a 
symptom. 

393
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,240
I don't know if people so in 
this situation, for example, he 

394
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,280
might not and sort of sounds 
like he's not aware of what is 

395
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:48,800
holding him back from these 
things. 

396
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,600
I doubt that he genuinely just 
never wants to go out for a 

397
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,240
healthy reason. 
I love being at home and I would

398
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,600
prefer to stay home, but I 
definitely don't never want to 

399
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,720
go out. 
And the times where I am 

400
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,000
resistant to going out, I can 
tell is because I'm in a bit of 

401
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,040
a depression or I'm just low or 
I'm overwhelmed or I just can't 

402
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,200
be bothered or I'm anxious about
what's going on. 

403
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,080
There's a lot of things that 
pull me back from the social 

404
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,360
things. 
And yes, there would be ones 

405
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:16,760
that I genuinely, I can't be 
bothered doing that. 

406
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,440
Yeah. 
But if it's every time outside 

407
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,240
of just his family, I thought 
that was telling. 

408
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,640
He would do it with his family 
and that's it to me. 

409
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,600
I'm like, oh, immediately, that 
makes sense. 

410
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,080
His family's, like, so 
comfortable to him. 

411
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,720
Yeah, that they don't really 
count the same way that other 

412
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,280
social dynamics might. 
There's got to be something more

413
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,640
that's holding him back. 
Yeah. 

414
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,760
And if for those that have been 
following with us for a while 

415
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,560
now, you would have heard us 
talk in great lengths about, you

416
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:47,520
know, our job with dad's group. 
So it's about the it's 

417
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,920
essentially working with dads on
that perinatal periods before 

418
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,120
birth and after birth of their 
baby. 

419
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,720
And how many dads actually go 
into isolation, right? 

420
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,360
So one in 10 dads suffer from 
post nodal depressions. 

421
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:01,480
One in five mums suffer from 
post nodal depression. 

422
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,800
So it's a lot more common in 
women than men, but it's still 

423
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,240
there, right? 
And for a lot of men, what we 

424
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,640
would do is go into isolation 
because that's easier for some 

425
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,920
reason, you know, when we're 
struggling, we're more likely to

426
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,800
isolate. 
We remove ourselves from 

427
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,360
situations and that could be 
work stresses or family dynamic 

428
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,800
stresses into in regards to, you
know, what's my identity now 

429
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,240
that I'm a dad? 
Like, I don't know what that is.

430
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,320
I don't know what that looks 
like. 

431
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:27,840
And I can relate to a lot of 
these. 

432
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,440
We became parents. 
That was genuinely a big 

433
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,800
struggle of mine. 
It's like, what do I do now? 

434
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,040
I can't do the things that I 
liked doing before because it 

435
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,520
cost too much, right? 
Or it was or. 

436
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,640
The time was. 
Too much, the time was too much 

437
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,080
or it was actually more of a 
danger. 

438
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,240
And you take those like you take
risks differently when you 

439
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,160
become a parent. 
Yeah. 

440
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,480
And for me, again, I isolated 
myself. 

441
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,240
I removed myself from being 
social. 

442
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,880
I removed myself from everything
else other than other than work 

443
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,440
and it took a toll. 
I didn't get to that point, I 

444
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,200
don't think, but it was 
definitely still there. 

445
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,040
And I see it so much in men. 
It definitely happens with women

446
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,560
too. 
But again, I'm just speaking 

447
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,120
from a man's perspective and the
conversations that I have 

448
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:10,920
regularly with men is this is a 
common response to external 

449
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,360
struggles and internal 
struggles. 

450
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:13,440
Sorry. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

451
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,920
We've seen it too with like my 
dad, for example, as he got 

452
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,080
older, really just his social 
life shrunk, shrunk, shrunk. 

453
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,360
And I've seen it a lot in older 
men. 

454
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,880
You can see kind of the more 
extreme play out of it versus 

455
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,360
women. 
Doesn't mean it doesn't happen 

456
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:30,040
that way, but I think there is 
something that that along the 

457
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,680
way gets out of balance and then
becomes too hard and you haven't

458
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,880
necessarily looked into what it 
is like. 

459
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,080
There's obviously a reason for 
him to not be engaging, but the 

460
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,760
other side of it is the way he's
reacting to his wife when she's 

461
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,960
trying to get him to engage or 
trying to include social things.

462
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,920
So she says he gets mad, he gets
irritated, he seems dismissive 

463
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,360
and and frustrated when she's 
listed these things. 

464
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,680
So it's not just that, oh, this 
is sad. 

465
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,320
Look, he's pulled himself out of
social things. 

466
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,480
It's actually also he's, he's 
letting that affect how he's 

467
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,320
reacting to his wife. 
And that's going to be also 

468
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,520
letting impacting her social 
dynamics as well. 

469
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,040
Because she's got to then 
explain why he's not coming. 

470
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,240
She's got to then build 
relationships on her own. 

471
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,600
She's got to then explain to him
who these people are that she's 

472
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,160
spending time or the story she's
heard. 

473
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,960
She's got to relay all of that 
to him if he's going to be 

474
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,560
brought into her social life at 
all because he's not there. 

475
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,560
And so there's all these things 
that then play out that cause 

476
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,040
division between the two of them
if they're not careful as well. 

477
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,960
So. 
One thing is good thing is quite

478
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,720
interesting and there's a lot of
research around this too. 

479
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,480
So from the journals of Geo 
Ontology from Oxford Academy. 

480
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,920
Don't ask me how to say it 
properly, I don't know, there's 

481
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,040
lots of words. 
But something is quite 

482
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,240
interesting is this research 
highlights that as men age, 

483
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,320
their social networks become 
more restricted, while women's 

484
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,800
networks are more reverse. 
So older women are significantly

485
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,040
more likely to to have bridging 
potential, meaning they act as 

486
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,760
the link between different 
social groups like neighbours, 

487
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,880
distant family and hobby groups.
Men, by contrast, often have 

488
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,320
redundant networks where 
everyone they know is also known

489
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,600
by their spouse. 
I was very reliant on their 

490
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,840
spouse. 
So according to research from 

491
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,720
the University of Chicago 
published in in this place, men 

492
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,520
are far more likely to have 
spouse only social lives. 

493
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,240
This means if the marriage ends 
or the spouse passes, the man's 

494
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,600
entire social world effectively 
vanishes overnight. 

495
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:25,840
Yes. 
So it's pretty intense. 

496
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,200
And again, this is something 
I've heard before and I haven't 

497
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,480
had, I haven't dug into it 
enough. 

498
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,280
And I want to dive into this 
more because I even see it like 

499
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,240
even around me, I'll see it like
I was even seeing it with him 

500
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,000
myself. 
I was becoming more and more 

501
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,480
isolated. 
You're becoming more and more 

502
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,440
social. 
And I see it with a lot of men 

503
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,800
around as well. 
Which there are so many reasons 

504
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,720
why this is not ideal. 
Yeah. 

505
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,840
So many different things are 
affected by that. 

506
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,760
Pulling it back a little bit, 
and you kind of touched on some 

507
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,720
of this. 
How does this develop for one? 

508
00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:00,280
And I want to remove too much of
the generalising element of it 

509
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,600
because it could be for you as 
well, regardless if you're an 

510
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,280
older man or not. 
So this is relevant for 

511
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,040
everybody. 
But how does, how does social 

512
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,600
isolation or social imbalance 
develop over the years in a 

513
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,800
relationship? 
And it starts with fatigue 

514
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,840
parenting. 
That's one of the ways like we 

515
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,120
spoke about. 
I think that's probably the 

516
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,760
biggest one. 
I would be really fascinated to 

517
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,440
see a study of social lives 
before, during and after 

518
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,920
parenting and how it's impacted 
and how it's connected. 

519
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,360
New environments. 
So anything new, all these new 

520
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,160
things. 
When you're a child, you do have

521
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,680
new environments, but you've got
a lot of systems around you that

522
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,800
are consistent for the most 
part, unless you're a missionary

523
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,880
kid like me that help you 
maintain friendships and even 

524
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,640
even just the system of your 
parents who will be kind of 

525
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,120
imposing their own social lives 
down, that helps keep it 

526
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,600
consistent. 
Once you're an adult, it's all 

527
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:52,920
new. 
You're building all of it. 

528
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,640
Even if you're in the same town,
there's a whole bunch of new 

529
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,160
stuff. 
People leave, people get new 

530
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,720
jobs, you get a new job, there's
new neighbours, there's like all

531
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,920
this new environment and, and 
every time there's a newness, 

532
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,400
you have to rebuild and that can
feel exhausting. 

533
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,920
And some people don't step up to
the plate on that. 

534
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,600
Probably the biggest 1, and it 
probably ties in under all of 

535
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,400
these things is insecurity. 
The way you view yourself, the 

536
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,240
way you think other people view 
you, the stories you're telling 

537
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,880
yourself, those things impact 
how you present in the world in 

538
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,840
far greater ways. 
And I think many of us give them

539
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,600
credit for, and it can start 
from a child from childhood. 

540
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,720
It can be a story you tell 
yourself from childhood. 

541
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,440
It can be an accurate story 
that's based off something that 

542
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,520
truly happened. 
Or it can be a story that is 

543
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,200
based off your read of what 
happened. 

544
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,120
And those things sit in our 
brains and they become self 

545
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,080
fulfilling prophecies in some 
ways because of, as we've said, 

546
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,240
the things you tell your brain 
it focuses on. 

547
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,240
And so if you've told yourself 
growing up that you're not very 

548
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,920
good at friendships or people 
don't really like spending time 

549
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,040
with you as you become an adult,
and then you're adding in all 

550
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,040
these new dynamics that also 
make it difficult, you could 

551
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,400
just double down into that. 
Yeah, something that I'm 

552
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,560
thinking through now, and this 
is true for myself, is like 

553
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,120
relationship, male relationships
can be very tiring because 

554
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,360
they're not safe. 
So a lot of masculine 

555
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,160
relationships about like 
especially in Australia is 

556
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,320
really tearing down. 
But for you, I don't get teared 

557
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,640
down, right? 
So I can see how, like, in 

558
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,400
people's relationships, like for
men, well, their whole 

559
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,680
relationship becomes to their 
partner because their partner is

560
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,880
the safest person in their world
emotionally. 

561
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,640
So they're not as likely to be 
teared down emotionally by their

562
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,000
partner. 
For a lot of people, and again, 

563
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,360
this is all speculation, I don't
have the research behind this, 

564
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,440
but it's just me putting all 
these dots together. 

565
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,040
I want to hang out with you 
more. 

566
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,480
I feel safe to hang out with 
you. 

567
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,080
The reason why when I was 
struggling socially, I would 

568
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,600
just hang out with you all the 
time because that was safe. 

569
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,600
But you were safe. 
Yeah. 

570
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,440
You know, the anxiety of what 
are people going to think about 

571
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,400
me or what are they going to say
about this thing? 

572
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,600
Like I would so worry about all 
those different things, like, 

573
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,840
you know, I know these people 
have these sort of expectations 

574
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,360
with how I should look or behave
or whatever. 

575
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,280
And not that women don't get 
this. 

576
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,720
So it's not minimising this for 
women. 

577
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,680
I'm just saying I feel like this
is something for men that is 

578
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,560
impacting this for them. 
So we talk a lot in my line of 

579
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,960
work too, about how in a lot of 
Australian masculinity culture, 

580
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:18,920
it's really emphasise you do not
show weakness, right? 

581
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,960
And this, the script is changing
here, the culture is changing, 

582
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,960
but this is still what a lot of 
men deal with is you don't show 

583
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,640
emotion, so you don't show 
tears, you don't show weakness 

584
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,080
because if you do that, you're 
weak, you're bad, you're all 

585
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,800
these sorts of things. 
And so for a lot of men, it's 

586
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,640
like, well, I want to feel what 
I feel. 

587
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,840
And if I go out, I can't feel 
that. 

588
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,120
But if I'm at home, I'm more 
likely I'm safer to feel that. 

589
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,880
Or if I'm with you, I'm safer to
feel what I feel. 

590
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,320
I don't have to put this mask on
again. 

591
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,560
Women, you have your masks and I
completely acknowledge that. 

592
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,120
Have them, have them. 
Embrace them. 

593
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,200
We're just talking about, again 
for this, we're more likely see 

594
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,280
it with men. 
Research shows it plays out more

595
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,600
for men and I'm just trying to 
unpack the why more. 

596
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,640
Partially it might not feel safe
because of like people deeming 

597
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,840
you as weak and blah, blah, 
blah. 

598
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,720
The other side of that is all of
you are so afraid of that, that 

599
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,240
the other part that doesn't feel
safe is people feeling 

600
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,720
uncomfortable when you show 
emotion. 

601
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,160
Yeah, absolutely. 
Like, it's not just everyone's 

602
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,120
so horrible. 
Every time I talk to them it's 

603
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:19,600
actually like not not only do we
get worried about feeling 

604
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,680
judged, but we also then feel 
awkward about people feeling 

605
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,360
awkward about emotion or. 
Over appreciating it. 

606
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,800
It's like, oh, I've shed a tear 
in front of these people and 

607
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,040
they're like. 
Overly, it's. 

608
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,160
Like, oh dude, just let me feel 
what I'm feeling, you know? 

609
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,560
Whereas I think generally 
speaking, female relationships 

610
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,880
are are a lot more emotionally 
vulnerable and open. 

611
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,880
And even you were talking about 
how, you know, people have, it's

612
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,520
not strong like that kind of 
perspective of like it's weak or

613
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,760
whatever. 
I think girl relationships, 

614
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,880
generally speaking, you connect 
over the thing that irritates 

615
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,800
you the most or like I've had, 
we had this conversation 

616
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,080
recently where I was connecting 
with the wife because we were 

617
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,040
complaining about this, like 
this thing, it's not even an 

618
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,920
interesting story, but we're 
just like, Oh yeah, that's so 

619
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,560
frustrating. 
And and she's like, yeah, that's

620
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,480
so frustrating. 
That happened to me two and then

621
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,280
we kind of connect over that, 
whereas you wouldn't sit there 

622
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,440
and be like, oh, that's so 
frustrating. 

623
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,000
And it's just kind of this like 
more. 

624
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,080
I don't I don't know how to 
describe it, but it's just more 

625
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,280
like practical. 
You would say it, you'd be like,

626
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,440
this thing happened to me and 
the other one would be like 

627
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,200
bummer. 
And that's kind. 

628
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,560
Of the conversation, men, men 
more typically connect over 

629
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,360
hobbies, I feel, or interests, 
not negatives. 

630
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:30,760
So it's like, you know, yeah, I 
think, I think that's it. 

631
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,640
And it like to be clear, it can 
be negative, like really 

632
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,720
negative, but it's not always 
negatives like like whiny, 

633
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,720
nitpicky or like toxic. 
It's just, it's almost like, 

634
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,200
it's almost like problem solving
outside of my body and then the 

635
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,280
other person's problem solving 
outside of theirs and we're 

636
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,200
verbally problem solving 
together. 

637
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,080
Whereas you guys, if it's 
practical, I think it's easier 

638
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,560
for you to be like, oh, this is 
what I would do. 

639
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,960
So I've heard you come alive 
when you're talking about trades

640
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,760
or like practical things about 
fixing things or cars or like 

641
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,640
gym, like these things that kind
of a little bit more clean cut 

642
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,160
and practical, but not so much 
the emotional dynamics that are 

643
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,320
at play. 
Stuff as well because, you know,

644
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,280
for women, you've seen other 
women, you are watching other 

645
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,760
women do that yeah, exactly. 
Men don't do that naturally. 

646
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,680
And so not that we can't, but 
it's like, you know, the, it's 

647
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,120
so funny. 
I'm meeting with a bunch of 

648
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,440
organisations at the moment on, 
on men's mental health stuff, 

649
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,040
right. 
And like the biggest challenge 

650
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,280
we have, there's amazing, 
amazing resources, amazing 

651
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,920
programmes, all this stuff. 
The biggest challenge is not the

652
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,360
content, it's getting the men to
rock up, you know, because we 

653
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,440
don't naturally do that. 
It's like, you suck it up, you 

654
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,320
deal, you just move on. 
You, you know, whatever to 

655
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,120
getting them to actually take 
their own self care seriously 

656
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,560
or, or working through those 
emotions. 

657
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,160
I think that's why we don't talk
about it as much because we 

658
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,760
don't really know how to work 
through it. 

659
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,240
We don't really know. 
What do you talk about? 

660
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,560
Yeah, it's like you share 
something's like, Oh yeah, that 

661
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,200
sucks. 
What am I supposed to do now? 

662
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,560
Yeah, So it's, it's, we haven't 
really had that modelled before.

663
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,400
Like you don't see that and you 
kind of take on what you see. 

664
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,640
Right. 
I don't think you guys need to 

665
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,520
connect the same way that we do.
No, I don't think it needs. 

666
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:09,960
It's the same with the mental 
load thing, right? 

667
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,240
Like there will be natural 
definition between unique people

668
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,720
with different natural 
preferences. 

669
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,040
And so it's not about it's not 
necessarily about men need to 

670
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,160
learn how to do this the same 
way women have because it 

671
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,360
doesn't work that way. 
It's. 

672
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,840
Not yeah, we're not saying all 
right man, you need to women do 

673
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,400
it this way and it works for 
them. 

674
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,360
We need to do the same thing and
not at all What we're really 

675
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,400
trying to draw out though is 
like, are you even aware that 

676
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,400
you're doing it? 
Yeah, are you even aware that 

677
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,680
you're in that place and you 
know and with your if you're a 

678
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,440
partner of someone, even though 
it might even be a man like. 

679
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,240
Right. 
So we we we're really focusing 

680
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,200
on men here, but it's not a men 
issue. 

681
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,880
It's an everyone issue. 
This is more more likely in men.

682
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,840
So your other partner is like, 
well, cool, if your partner is 

683
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,120
stuck in that position, do you 
know how to have that 

684
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,520
conversation to help them out? 
That's the point that we're 

685
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,680
talking about here, where we're 
talking about gender stereotypes

686
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,560
here and, and typical gender 
behaviour is just to try and 

687
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,760
highlight some things that could
help you with that conversation.

688
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,240
So women, are you having those 
interactions? 

689
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,080
Are you putting yourself in a 
position to have those 

690
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,040
conversations? 
Because we see that working 

691
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,520
really, really well. 
Men, do you have a hobby? 

692
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,640
For me that is a huge one. 
Like I have not had had healthy 

693
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,520
hobbits. 
I haven't had. 

694
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,280
I have never ever. 
Hobbits. 

695
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:27,040
Never once, none of my life I 
got a button for that. 

696
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,160
Never. 
I haven't had healthy habits 

697
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,480
since having kids. 
Like I don't do sport anymore, I

698
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,680
don't do these things. 
Recently I've been putting some 

699
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,440
stuff in place and it's been 
amazing. 

700
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,040
It's great. 
I'm feeling energised. 

701
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,320
I'm feeling like my cup is 
filled and, and, but I was 

702
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,600
effort to actually do that and 
it took me so long to work out 

703
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,480
like, what is it that I, I 
actually like doing? 

704
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,520
And the big thing is that you've
helped me with over the years, 

705
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,640
though, is like, all right, 
cool, well, you're not there 

706
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,480
yet, but what can you do now? 
And there was a lot of us in 

707
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,920
that in that time. 
You didn't have that approach of

708
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,760
like Blair, sort your stuff out,
you're socially awkward or 

709
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,360
you're socially isolated. 
Now go be social. 

710
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,240
It wasn't that. 
It was like, cool, let us go for

711
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,400
a walk. 
We started, we literally started

712
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,480
with let's do a 10 minute walk 
and it was just getting us, 

713
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,560
getting me out of the funk of 
that and then growing and luring

714
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,800
that together rather than an 
accusation. 

715
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,640
And that was really, really 
helpful. 

716
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,600
And so from my word rant there 
and talking about hobbits 

717
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,640
randomly that I just really 
needed to recap why we're having

718
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,360
these conversations and why 
we're sharing about these things

719
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,240
because it's it's helping equip 
you to have the conversation, 

720
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,720
but it's also helping to equip 
you to identify that within 

721
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:36,520
yourself. 
Yeah. 

722
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,080
Where are you at? 
And evaluate that, sit on that 

723
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,200
and then move forward. 
And like you pointed out, the 

724
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,000
topic of men and isolation is a 
specifically relevant one for 

725
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,120
just because of the work that 
we've done and we've talked a 

726
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,600
lot about it. 
So that's why it comes out a 

727
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,320
lot. 
But yeah, it's actually it feeds

728
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,000
into the next reason this might 
develop, which is mental health,

729
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,880
huge reason. 
And and tied into a lot of these

730
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,920
things, mental health, often one
of the things people kind of 

731
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,960
look at is, is withdrawing from 
social life. 

732
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,160
So that is a huge sign that 
something might be sitting in a 

733
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,360
way that's not helpful or 
healthy for you mentally. 

734
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,360
And so the big thing that I 
think is a good test for if this

735
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,280
is a healthy social life or not 
for you and for your partner is 

736
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,800
what's your norm, your baseline?
What have you been doing your 

737
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,040
whole life? 
What's the kind of like, this is

738
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,280
who I am and this is how I 
interact. 

739
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,120
If something's not functioning 
in that way anymore, that's a 

740
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,680
sign that that you should have 
this conversation. 

741
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,120
Some people will never have had 
a healthy social life. 

742
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,520
And so it's worth exploring that
too. 

743
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,440
But like after our kids blares 
social approach was drastically 

744
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,080
different to what it had been 
when we first got together. 

745
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,520
And so it was very clear that 
there was something unhealthy 

746
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,200
going on there and it was a 
trigger for us to have that 

747
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,920
conversation and explore those 
things. 

748
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,040
And so whenever there's 
something, whenever something 

749
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,800
out of character is happening 
with your partner, it's, it's a 

750
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,120
lot of the time easier to see it
as the partner watching the 

751
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,960
other partner than it is to see 
it about yourself, especially if

752
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,440
you're not in a good mental 
space to kind of work through 

753
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,080
what's happening for yourself. 
So if you notice something out 

754
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,800
of character for your partner, 
it is a good trigger to be 

755
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,639
curious and have that 
conversation and explore it 

756
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:18,239
gently and start to figure out 
what is not working and what 

757
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,320
needs to change for it to work 
better. 

758
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,880
So mental health, huge reason 
that people start to have 

759
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,920
imbalance in their social lives,
burnout, it's all connected, 

760
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,520
feeling awkward and feeling 
judged. 

761
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,280
I think that comes right under 
insecurity. 

762
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:35,520
Just the the awkward vibes. 
And I, I am a, a more homebody 

763
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,320
person than Blair 100%. 
And I'm much more comfortable in

764
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,920
social circumstances than I was 
before. 

765
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,440
But I'll still find like there's
this times where I'm like, Oh, I

766
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,280
just feel, I just feel 
uncomfortable because I'm like, 

767
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,040
my social battery is completely 
depleted and I'm tired and I 

768
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,960
feel awkward. 
So that can also be good. 

769
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,360
And the other thing is, and you 
mentioned this before when 

770
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,240
you're reading that study, the 
other reason that social 

771
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:02,440
withdrawal might happen is 
because your partner has always 

772
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,040
handled it. 
So if you are like that study 

773
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,680
was talking about and your 
partner has always handled your 

774
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,640
social life and it's that 
dependent relationship on your 

775
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,640
partner and suddenly they're not
handling it anymore because 

776
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,000
they're they've passed away or 
they're unwell or something 

777
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,960
shifted with them or you're no 
longer together, then your whole

778
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,440
social foundation has crumbled 
with that one person. 

779
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,680
Which is why it is such an 
important conversation. 

780
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,160
Have why it's such an important 
thing to be in a balance and be 

781
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,720
aware of so that you're you're 
setting yourself up and your 

782
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,320
partner up in a way that is 
sustainable and healthy long 

783
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,960
term. 
You know, I want to share a 

784
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,960
snippet of what we've been 
through in that area because we,

785
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,040
you know, we've had to work 
through a lot. 

786
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,560
And even though we do this 
podcast, we don't want the 

787
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,880
assumption that we're just 
speaking out people from a place

788
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,000
of, you know, data or something,
you know, we speak out of a 

789
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,240
place of experience. 
Like I I've had probably the 

790
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:57,520
longest, like standing mental 
health struggles and probably 

791
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,320
the deepest and most full on. 
But all of those things have 

792
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,000
affected Amy so much, you know, 
and but it because it again, it 

793
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,200
is a teamwork thing. 
So we take each other's stuff, 

794
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:07,600
we work through it with each 
other. 

795
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,320
So anyway, the for for me in 
this deading here, I was very 

796
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:18,800
much like I, I just lost so much
confidence in who I was, right. 

797
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,800
I remember when I was younger, 
dude, I used to just, I loved 

798
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,240
running parties. 
I loved socialising. 

799
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,200
I was out nearly every night, 
like not partying, just seeing 

800
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,640
people, right? 
I was just always social just 

801
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,400
loved it. 
I just thrived in that. 

802
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,760
I just, my battery was just 
filled from being around people 

803
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,800
all the time. 
And then I got into like a 

804
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,960
leadership position and I, we 
had started having kids and, 

805
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,280
and, and COVID as well, and I 
just started becoming more and 

806
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,560
more isolated because I didn't 
know where I like would sat with

807
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,600
people. 
And so there's that element and 

808
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,040
then you become a parent and you
just tied all the time. 

809
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,520
Or like I said, we were 
prioritising you getting out 

810
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,120
because it was all new and I was
getting out. 

811
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,640
I was getting out for work. 
And so we wanted you to get out 

812
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,440
and just to get out of the 
house, right. 

813
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,520
And to, to get that your battery
recharge that way. 

814
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,120
But with that too, because I 
wasn't filling up my own cup, 

815
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,200
it's in a way I was just getting
more and more low, I guess, and 

816
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,680
just again, losing that sense of
identity of what's my life when 

817
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,960
it's just me, you know, when I'm
just having fun. 

818
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,240
What's that even look like? 
And then COVID was a whole level

819
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:26,640
in Melbourne with the lockdowns.
But then leaving that season, 

820
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,960
that's probably, that's been a 
four year journey for us of what

821
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,000
I had breaking into that. 
Like when we moved out of 

822
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,480
Melbourne, I just felt so 
awkward. 

823
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,040
I genuinely felt so, so awkward.
And I just didn't know how to 

824
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,640
have conversations anymore. 
I didn't know how to relate to 

825
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,560
people anymore because with the 
lockdowns you just lost all 

826
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,680
interaction. 
So it was this big social 

827
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,160
anxiety that creeped in. 
I didn't know know how to 

828
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,280
actually break out of that. 
And it did take intentional 

829
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:55,960
effort. 
You know, something that Amy's 

830
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,720
really been encouraging me with 
not pressuring me. 

831
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:03,160
And that's a big distinction 
there is that, you know, why am 

832
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,040
I waiting for everyone to invite
me? 

833
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,400
Why don't I do what I was 
already doing? 

834
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,840
Like I was, again, I was the 
person that would invite 

835
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,600
everyone to come and do 
something. 

836
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,880
And I stopped doing that. 
And I stopped because I felt so 

837
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,040
awkward. 
I felt like I was rocking after 

838
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,400
these things and like, man, what
am I? 

839
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,960
What did I just say? 
I was so weird and I'd make 

840
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:27,040
these random jokes and, and 
stuff and I just felt so weird. 

841
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:28,840
But yeah, that that was where I 
was at. 

842
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,160
And, and that's why I want to 
encourage people to, you know, 

843
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,280
reflect. 
If you're feeling like you're in

844
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,720
a similar place, like reflect, 
like, are you there? 

845
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:39,800
Why is it that you don't want to
leave the house? 

846
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,080
Why is it you're don't invest in
friendships. 

847
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,200
It is hard, genuinely has been a
hard four years. 

848
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,000
And part of me when you're 
talking is like, well, actually 

849
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,160
that time where you were quite 
insular was probably very 

850
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,680
important for you because back 
when you were super social also 

851
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,640
was masking a lot of stuff 
exactly avoiding, you know, 

852
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,840
thinking and internal 
reflection. 

853
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,840
And yeah, true being so, it's, 
it's not, it's not one's good, 

854
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,680
one's not. 
And it's not that every season 

855
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,040
needs to look the same because 
it won't when you have little 

856
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,080
kids, it just will not look the 
same. 

857
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,400
And it probably shouldn't look 
the same because it's not the 

858
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,200
same. 
And so it's not about trying to 

859
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,760
make it be like, oh, it's not 
the same as it was. 

860
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,480
Go back to that. 
Or to diminish what you learn in

861
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,360
the process because that's 
super, super valuable. 

862
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,120
But it's more about your 
intentionality and what you're 

863
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,320
aiming for and what you're 
putting in place and having the 

864
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,760
conversation, being aware of it.
I can understand when you're 

865
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,080
tired and you're working full 
time and you've had kids, kids 

866
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,800
and you're getting older and you
just don't like what people talk

867
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,240
about and you just can't really 
be bothered and you got things 

868
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,640
around the house you like doing.
I can understand why it would 

869
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,120
feel like it's not worth it 
because it does take that 

870
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,920
energy. 
It might not feel important to 

871
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,320
you and your partner might feel 
like they're enough, but it is 

872
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,760
so important. 
It's it's something that takes 

873
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,200
that energy for a good purpose. 
It requires discomfort for a 

874
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,400
really good reason. 
Almost everything good in this 

875
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,800
world. 
Comes through discomfort, a 

876
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,800
season of discomfort. 
And so yes, it might feel 

877
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,880
uncomfortable, it might not feel
like a priority, but The thing 

878
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,280
is that these things that start 
small become big divides. 

879
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,120
It's not just a divide in terms 
of, oh, look, you're going to 

880
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,680
get to this age and you're not 
going to have any friends 

881
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,800
because then the person's like, 
well, what, what's the benefit 

882
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,720
of like, I can take that I'll 
own that. 

883
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,040
I just won't have friends when 
I'm older. 

884
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,360
That's fine. 
It's actually the divide that 

885
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,960
starts to set you and your 
partner on a, on a course where 

886
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,840
you're not only not connected 
socially, but you're dividing 

887
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,520
and, and bringing space in, in 
driving a wedge. 

888
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,960
And that actually means your 
relationship is less and less 

889
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,320
healthy and intentional and 
intimate because you're not 

890
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,880
engaging externally, you're not 
getting your cup filled. 

891
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,200
You're either totally dependent 
on your partner or you're 

892
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,480
running out on empty and 
reacting to your partner like 

893
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,680
this person in the story because
you haven't got anybody 

894
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,800
inputting. 
And that is going to be setting 

895
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,840
up your relationship for a lot 
of difficulty down the track. 

896
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,920
You're missing out on one of the
core human needs. 

897
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,040
So yes, relationships are hard. 
A lot people might be listening 

898
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,200
to this and be like, yeah, but 
it's so much easier said than 

899
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,840
done. 
You can't just like be like, no,

900
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,400
I'm going to have relationships.
Magic. 

901
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,760
They disappear. 
We've walked that journey so 

902
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,200
much over the last few years. 
It's not about having a 

903
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,000
bazillion really, really good 
friends. 

904
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,880
And it's not even about having 
regular deep conversations with 

905
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,560
other people. 
It's just about being in 

906
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,320
community and doesn't have to 
start with finding someone who's

907
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,320
going to have a deep, meaningful
conversation with you. 

908
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,800
It can be as little as having a 
conversation with someone that 

909
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,200
you walk past on the road or 
someone who's checking you out 

910
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,320
at the grocery store with your 
checking out. 

911
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,760
Your grocery is not checking you
don't talk to the people 

912
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,960
checking you out. 
No, that's great. 

913
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,600
That won't end well either. 
So the cost of carrying the 

914
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,840
practical load is isolating. 
It's frustrating. 

915
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,440
It can be disappointing, it can 
be, it can be embarrassing. 

916
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,520
If you're anyone like me that 
you like struggle with the 

917
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,240
dynamics and making sure people 
feel OK when your partner is 

918
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:52,960
withdrawing themselves and 
they're not coming to the table 

919
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,760
socially, it's also really 
awkward because then you have to

920
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,200
explain why they're not here, 
why they didn't want to join you

921
00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:59,640
for dinner. 
You have to go to things by 

922
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,320
yourself or you have to give 
your apologies, that sort of 

923
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,320
stuff. 
It becomes very complicated. 

924
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,040
That's one of the costs, 
removing yourself socially. 

925
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,640
Your perspectives narrow. 
You're you become an echo 

926
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,920
chamber. 
You just are in your own world 

927
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,560
with your own interests and your
own perspectives, and you don't 

928
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,040
have those voices other than 
your partner and your family 

929
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,960
members inputting into that. 
Your confidence can quietly 

930
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,240
erode. 
Like we just explained with 

931
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:23,920
Blair's experience, your 
partner's carrying more than 

932
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,360
they should. 
You can become overly dependent 

933
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,520
in your relationship. 
Small insecurities grow louder. 

934
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,520
You start to shrink in areas 
that once gave you life, you 

935
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,720
hold, you hold yourself back 
from things that actually could 

936
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:38,080
really fill your cup and really 
give you a sense of purpose. 

937
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:40,920
And over time, that withdrawal 
doesn't just protect you from 

938
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,520
discomfort, it actually also 
makes you more uncomfortable in 

939
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,280
a, in a longer term way. 
So when you are looking at this 

940
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,160
in relationship, it's just about
finding a balance. 

941
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,120
It's just about finding 
something that's going to work 

942
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,880
and bring you guys closer 
together bit by bit to where you

943
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,560
would like to be in the long 
run, where you'd like to be as a

944
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,720
couple, where you'd like to be 
as individuals, individuals and 

945
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,520
where you'd like to be as a 
social community with other 

946
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,400
people as well. 
So we've got some practical 

947
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,720
tools that we can work with. 
One is the practical side of the

948
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:12,600
mental load element of this, 
which is just make it as 

949
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,280
practical. 
If you're having difficulties 

950
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,560
because one person's carrying 
too much of that, that load 

951
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,240
practically Speaking of 
organising it, keeping up with 

952
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:22,840
people, you know, remembering 
people's names, all that sort of

953
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,600
thing. 
Make it as simple as you can. 

954
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,560
If it's if it comes down to 
needing to literally write out a

955
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,600
list of the things that come 
into your social load like 

956
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,280
scheduling play dates, 
remembering birthday parties, 

957
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,880
buying birthday presents, 
messaging your mom, whatever The

958
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,360
thing is listed out if you need 
to and say this is what I'm 

959
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,920
dealing with, with this mental 
load. 

960
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,600
Can we share this load a little 
bit? 

961
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,880
Get as practical as you need to 
strip it back until it's 

962
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,280
manageable so that you're not 
carrying everything on your own.

963
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,560
So that's one way. 
Just break it up in 2 sections. 

964
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,800
A really practical way, 
especially in the early days 

965
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,320
when you've got little kids, is 
trading off nights of the week 

966
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,400
or something like that. 
Being like, you go out with your

967
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,720
friends this night and I'll go 
out this night and just like 

968
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:04,800
making sure that you're 
factoring in time similarly to 

969
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,480
how we suggest with date nights 
together, factoring in time for 

970
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,000
each of you to have time with 
your social community and 

971
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,880
freeing that person up so they 
can do that without any kind of 

972
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,920
guilt around them. 
Putting social plans in the 

973
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,800
calendar. 
That's my, I'm so bad at this. 

974
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,040
Like I just, I'll be like, yeah,
we should catch up with these 

975
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,400
people. 
And we say like every month for 

976
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,920
a year and we never actually put
it in the calendar. 

977
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,120
Yeah, just schedule. 
If it's three months ahead, 

978
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,280
schedule it there. 
If that's as far ahead as you 

979
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,920
need to do it because of like 
your life and family life, which

980
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,240
is what we find, at least it's 
in the calendar. 

981
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,880
And eventually it'll tick around
and then your kid will get a 

982
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,440
virus and it won't work. 
You won't be able to have dinner

983
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,160
with them and agree on what 
works for you now. 

984
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,960
So you really liked a lot of 
outdoorsy adventure type hobbies

985
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,200
and it wasn't gonna fly for some
of those to be a regular thing. 

986
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,600
Yeah, when we had kids. 
Well, it's. 

987
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,920
Really funny actually, that you 
bring that up because it's it's 

988
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,280
it's really. 
I'm not gonna dictate this for 

989
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,120
Amy. 
OK? 

990
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,080
So if we look at like what we do
for each other's birth 

991
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,360
birthdays, right, Amy's birthday
present every year as she goes 

992
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,000
and has a day to herself, like 
for me, that's my worst 

993
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,400
nightmare. 
But for Amy, like if I do what I

994
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,920
think Amy needs without 
consulting her, I might not be 

995
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,400
helping the situation. 
I might actually be fueling it. 

996
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,880
So for me, Amy organisers, we go
for a walk or something like, 

997
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,560
you know, in our little swamp 
planned that we have up the 

998
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,760
road, we'll go for a family walk
and like that. 

999
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,720
I love that. 
But for a me to do that for Amy,

1000
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,680
is this going to 'cause she's 
not going to enjoy that, That's 

1001
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,680
not going to be her thing. 
So really the conversation, you 

1002
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,320
have that person in mind, right?
So if Amy's stuck in isolation, 

1003
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,640
then I'll be like, all right, 
where are you at? 

1004
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,600
So having an understanding of 
what is actually feeling that, 

1005
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,360
what is it anxiety, that what is
a tiredness, which is all 

1006
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,600
legitimate, what is it? 
And then walking with Amy 

1007
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,120
through that or like, what? 
What is something that has 

1008
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:53,920
seemed to cheat for you right 
now? 

1009
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,560
Not this grand thing, but what's
achievable for you right now? 

1010
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,360
And then it's a matter of. 
But again, it's like helping Amy

1011
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,640
come up with that herself rather
than saying what she needs 

1012
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,480
because otherwise I'm. 
I'm just not going to be able 

1013
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:06,040
to. 
Yeah. 

1014
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,880
And there have been times where 
you specifically have been like,

1015
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,760
hey, I was thinking of getting 
this friend of yours to come 

1016
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,800
around for this thing. 
Is that something you want? 

1017
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,600
And I'd be like, no. 
It's not that it's not an issue 

1018
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,920
of the friend, it's just that 
Amy's not wanting to see a 

1019
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,360
friend. 
That's not what feels like it 

1020
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:22,560
would help me right now. 
Yeah. 

1021
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,720
So have that conversation 
together and have that 

1022
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:26,400
conversation with your partner 
in mind. 

1023
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,480
So there's there's also, like 
we've mentioned, all this stuff 

1024
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,800
that goes on mentally with this 
kind of a dynamic playing out 

1025
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,240
the mental health side of 
things. 

1026
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:37,040
And so when you're navigating 
that practically, there's a 

1027
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,160
whole bunch of things to explore
about why you're withdrawing, 

1028
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,760
what is sitting behind that. 
And we're going to make a 

1029
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,760
resource that you can run 
through these because I've got a

1030
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,160
bunch of questions to reflect 
on. 

1031
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:48,880
So talk about it is one of my 
things here. 

1032
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:50,560
Talk about why have you 
withdrawn? 

1033
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,440
Like we had so many 
conversations with like together

1034
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,280
when you were going through this
social awkwardness about what's 

1035
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,320
happening for you. 
What what do you feel in social 

1036
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,440
times? 
Like even down to like, what 

1037
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,480
questions do you ask people? 
Amy is an investigator. 

1038
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,600
Like honestly, like she will see
a situation and this has really 

1039
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,320
impacted our whole relationship 
and even our family, right? 

1040
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,840
There's a situation and 
inappropriately too, like if I'm

1041
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,800
not in the mood for it, we don't
go there. 

1042
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,080
We don't like the attitude or 
response. 

1043
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,200
It is what it is. 
That's something that we don't 

1044
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:22,960
accept. 
It might be like it is what it 

1045
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,520
is for now. 
Let's check back in tomorrow or 

1046
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,920
a week or whatever, but it's we 
know we do revisit that because 

1047
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,840
we want to make each other 
stronger and we want to be 

1048
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,120
stronger individually. 
Where we do that is by 

1049
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,120
investigating. 
You know, that's just what Amy 

1050
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,480
naturally does. 
So we've shared before last 

1051
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,600
week, you would have heard me go
on a massive rant about Amy's 

1052
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,560
coaching. 
This is this is exactly what she

1053
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,120
does for her work. 
But she does this naturally is 

1054
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,440
why she's such a good coach 
because she does it. 

1055
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,760
She's like, I want to know 
what's going on. 

1056
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,040
I want to know because then we 
can actually address to not just

1057
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,000
leave it as it is. 
And she, what she does is she 

1058
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,240
works with me, she works with 
their clients. 

1059
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,240
I'm not her client, by the way, 
but on and helping us realise, 

1060
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,640
no, we, we've got everything 
that we need. 

1061
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,360
She just helps with that 
reflection of identifying the 

1062
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,840
situation and identifying what 
you already have to and showing 

1063
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,320
you how you can walk through it.
So it's absolutely amazing. 

1064
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,800
If you want more information on 
that, reach out on our socials 

1065
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,080
or on our website to, to find 
out more about Amy's coaching. 

1066
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,880
But you just bring it to our 
relationship naturally. 

1067
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,280
Thanks, baby. 
Yeah, well, and I'm going to 

1068
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,240
bring it to you guys this week 
in the document that I'm making 

1069
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:30,480
with a bunch of questions to ask
yourself or your partner to 

1070
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,400
explore what's going on. 
Because understanding that it 

1071
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,960
almost takes out like I'm going 
to say like 70% of the trouble, 

1072
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,880
just understanding what's going 
on frees you up so much. 

1073
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,520
Then there's there's really 
practical things like if you are

1074
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,440
feeling anxious, but you're 
willing to put yourself out 

1075
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,480
there, What are some things you 
can prepare yourself for before 

1076
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,000
you go into those social 
environments to start to build 

1077
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,480
back that social muscle? 
And things like picking one 

1078
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,960
person you know is going to be 
there and one question you want 

1079
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,880
to ask them, and that having 
that as your goal at that social

1080
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,000
event. 
And that's it. 

1081
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,760
You don't have to have a huge 
conversation, just have that one

1082
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,040
goal in mind and then you can 
rest in knowing you've done 

1083
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:07,320
that. 
So there's some practical things

1084
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,640
I'll put on there as well about 
you're ready to go. 

1085
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,000
What do I actually do to prepare
myself for that instance when 

1086
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,840
I'm there to make it easier? 
And if you haven't had community

1087
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,040
in a while, and this is a really
important one because a lot of 

1088
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,240
people would be like, yeah, but 
where do I find friends? 

1089
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,920
And I see this on the Facebook 
pages I'm on all the time being 

1090
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:24,520
like, I don't know where to find
friends. 

1091
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,840
Mostly the mum groups. 
It's so true. 

1092
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,080
If you don't have a community 
that you can immediately think 

1093
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,040
about, this is where I find 
friends. 

1094
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,240
It is really hard. 
We are so grateful that we have 

1095
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:37,280
church that's a part of our 
everyday, every week routine 

1096
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,080
because that is an immediate 
community that it's not always 

1097
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,080
easy. 
In fact, it's often not easy, 

1098
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,640
especially in the beginning to 
feel like you're a part of your 

1099
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,120
friendships or growing a social 
dynamic there. 

1100
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,040
But it is a, an immediate 
community that we have of a pool

1101
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,960
of people, school drop offs, 
sports that you're involved in. 

1102
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,440
There's a, there's a lot of 
communities that you can lean 

1103
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,320
into a little bit more. 
And again, instead of setting 

1104
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,160
yourself up to be like, I've got
to find a best friend at soccer 

1105
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,520
when I drop my kid off, don't 
lean into that. 

1106
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,240
That'll just shut you down. 
But instead of just put a tiny 

1107
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,240
little goal there so I drop my 
kid off at soccer who's one 

1108
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:13,760
person I can say hi to. 
Yeah, that was one big one for 

1109
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,240
me actually, with church, like I
I struggled, you know, social 

1110
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:21,000
anxiety, whatever Amy put the 
challenge to me who's just one 

1111
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,720
person you can have a a short 
conversation with. 

1112
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:26,160
And that's where it started was 
like, I don't have to try and 

1113
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,920
make me and make that best 
friend or meet everyone. 

1114
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,080
This, I'm just gonna start by 
finding one person. 

1115
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,120
If you're one person, is someone
that you say hello to and that's

1116
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:35,400
it. 
That's where you start and 

1117
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,720
that's achievable and you grow 
from that point. 

1118
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,680
And the the catch phrase that 
I've got for this all the time 

1119
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,680
is that people love to talk 
about themselves. 

1120
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,720
Yeah. 
So if you're feeling awkward 

1121
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:49,240
socially, just lean in. 
Like I sometimes I catch myself 

1122
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:52,520
and I'm like, Amy, stop asking 
questions partially because of 

1123
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,280
who I am, like Blair just 
mentioned before, but just ask 

1124
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,240
them questions about themselves.
And it almost always breaks the 

1125
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:00,280
ice. 
Not always, some people really, 

1126
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,080
really hard to get answers from,
but at least you've done your 

1127
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:04,680
best. 
You know, that's a really good 

1128
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,680
tactic for when you're going 
into places. 

1129
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,440
And we're also going to talk on 
this document about how you 

1130
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,160
raise this with your partner 
because it's one thing to 

1131
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,360
recognise this might be out of 
balance. 

1132
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,960
It's another thing to then raise
the conversation with your 

1133
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,640
partner in a way that they're 
going to hear it. 

1134
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,760
And the reality is a lot of the 
time with these things, you're 

1135
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,200
not on the same page at the 
beginning. 

1136
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:26,520
You're not both thinking about 
this topic and trying to figure 

1137
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,400
out how to navigate it at the 
same time. 

1138
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,040
This happens with us all the 
time. 

1139
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,400
We talked about it last episode 
where we were doing the 

1140
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,040
declarations process together 
and we even were on the same 

1141
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,240
page coming into that 
conversation in terms of the 

1142
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:41,080
importance of it. 
But we weren't on the same page 

1143
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,200
in terms of how we were feeling 
in that moment ready for the 

1144
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:45,920
conversation, and it just didn't
work. 

1145
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,480
So that's OK. 
But there are some ways for us 

1146
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,120
to communicate about this that 
will help our partner understand

1147
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,880
the importance of it and help us
to start doing that exploration 

1148
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,520
with them to make the 
conversation alive. 

1149
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,200
And it's going to be a lifelong 
conversation. 

1150
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,040
It's going to be a long term 
exploration of what's happening,

1151
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,880
but at least you're starting to 
soften that conversation between

1152
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,520
the two of you so you can work 
on it together. 

1153
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,160
So that's the social load. 
It's. 

1154
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,560
So much you talk about this I. 
Feel like it do 3 episodes on 

1155
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:14,680
it. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

1156
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,280
Yeah, so sorry about just like 
cramming in all the all the 

1157
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,480
practical things quickly at the 
end we. 

1158
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,800
Would love to hear from you. 
What's something that you got 

1159
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,400
from this? 
What's something that we didn't 

1160
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:24,960
answer? 
As we did mention, this is a 

1161
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,680
massive, massive topic. 
All these mental loads, these 

1162
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,720
load sessions, we always get so 
many questions. 

1163
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:33,280
So write them in because then we
can actually address them 

1164
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,240
specifically. 
That's a lot easier for us 

1165
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:38,520
rather than painting a general 
picture was what which we will 

1166
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,160
which, what, what, which is what
we've just done. 

1167
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:43,280
There we go. 
Thank you. 

1168
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,920
So write to you guys. 
Understood what you said. 

1169
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,480
So write in what's a specific 
question that you have? 

1170
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,720
And we will answer that. 
So either in our socials or the 

1171
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:54,360
next episode. 
So write in our so specific 

1172
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,440
questions because we want to be 
getting the exact answers to 

1173
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,720
you, not a generalised picture. 
So hopefully this has started 

1174
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:04,320
the conversation for you with 
your partner or for yourself, 

1175
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,480
but also join in this 
conversation with us. 

1176
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:08,200
We want to hear from you. 
Write in Amen. 

1177
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,320
Brother, good chat, all right? 
Awesome, good chat. 

1178
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:12,240
See you next week.