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Honey, we need to chat. 
Hello and welcome back to Honey,

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we need to chat. 
My name is Amy and this is my 

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husband, Blair. 
I am. 

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Yep, we are all about 
communication at this podcast. 

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This is something we're 
extremely passionate about. 

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We've said it before, and I'll 
say it again, that when 

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communication dies, bad things 
happen. 

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And so the heart behind Honey we
need to Chat is to be 

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workshopping areas where couples
might get a bit stuck in their 

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communication, in their 
relationship where we get stuck.

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Yeah, we have been stuck in 
where we may get stuck and just 

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kind of workshop it together as 
a couple and then also with you 

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guys. 
So that's what we are about. 

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Welcome to our Chitchat episode.
How you going today, babe? 

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Good babes. 
Yeah, I am. 

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If we're gonna do how we are at 
10, I am a 9.5. 

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Wow. 
I'm good. 

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I'm feeling really good again. 
A lot of my, and this has can be

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real negative and it's not for 
today's episode but I find a lot

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of value and self worth out of 
productivity. 

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Yes. 
And so I last episode, I believe

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it was last episode or one one 
recently anyway. 

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I spoke about how I had a really
low mental health day or couple 

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of days and it was because I did
not feel confident in the work 

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that I was doing which made me 
feel unproductive which made me 

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feel very low. 
I've had a really great week. 

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Productive and productive. 
Kicking some butt. 

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Yeah. 
Ticking the boxes and I feel 

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really, really good. 
Yeah. 

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So nine point you. 
Yeah, I'd say probably maybe an 

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8.5 as a bit tired today. 
Yeah, she got a nap. 

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I did nice, so that's where I'm 
at. 

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But yeah, pretty good. 
Should have had. 

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Another nap. 
But before we get into the topic

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today I really I again, I 
sometimes I'm in my head a 

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little bit about how much we 
repeat ourselves. 

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But I'm gonna do it anyway cause
I don't care. 

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Yeah, but I I seriously, a part 
of my 9.5 is I'm still in a bit 

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of a high from the engagement 
we've been getting from our 

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listeners. 
Absolutely no. 

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Oh man, I I think. 
And how long have we been out 

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for? 
Literally almost exactly a 

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month. 
So I'm gonna put a post up, but 

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not even a month yet. 
It's crazy and and you know what

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we hoped for was that I'm, you 
know, I would have conversations

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these conversations were already
having cause we're intentional 

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about us growing in 
communication because we see it 

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as such a core foundation and a 
relationship and to like cool, 

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hopefully, you know if we help 
people that's going to be 

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fantastic. 
But the feedback is not me, just

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feedback. 
It's engagement. 

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You know, just the conversations
we're having with people, 

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they're sending you messages and
saying, oh, look, this really 

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spoke to me. 
This is my situation, This is my

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story. 
And then also, you know, can you

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talk about this? 
And then, yeah, you know, we've 

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had a couple of those now and 
we're like, oh, cool, how do we 

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give this justice? 
Like, how do we do well in this 

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space? 
So anyway, we're looking at some

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guest speakers and stuff coming 
up in the future. 

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I have no idea when, but to 
really just help bring a little 

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bit more umph into those topics 
that we're getting that are have

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been written in. 
But anyway, I've just been on a 

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high about that. 
I've just absolutely loved it. 

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And even just before sitting 
down for tonight, I'm having a 

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conversation with a bunch of 
guys about tonight's topic even.

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Yeah. 
And it just, I just love it. 

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And you have so pumped up. 
Yeah, it's just conversations. 

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It's just communication. 
But the impact that it has on us

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individually and then just other
people around us is really 

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powerful. 
And so I'm just on a high. 

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I think I'm just really pumped 
up. 

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Yeah. 
It's really encouraging. 

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And I think for me, it's just 
been very affirming or 

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reaffirming, I guess, of the 
need of communication and that 

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that's just so universal because
what we say and how we navigate 

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communication is just not how 
everyone's going to do that. 

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And that's totally fine. 
But the fact that so many people

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are engaged in it so far already
is not because we're amazing 

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communicators, is because 
everyone listening, almost 

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everyone listening to almost 
every topic has some kind of 

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perspective on it or has 
navigated it in some way in 

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their own relationship. 
And so it's immediately 

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applicable. 
And whether they agree with what

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we say or not, like they're 
like, yeah, we've got and we've 

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had people disagree and that's 
awesome. 

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Well, it's gonna say is like one
of the conversations I was 

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having tonight with someone 
disagreeing with a view that we 

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had. 
Yeah. 

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And but it's what's what's 
awesome though is he still 

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having the conversation with his
partner. 

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I was like, I gotcha. 
This is like it's again you. 

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Not everyone's agree with our 
point of view and I'm completely

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fine with that. 
That's not the point Al. 

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Opinions and our views are not 
the point. 

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Yeah it's having the 
conversation and encouraging you

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guys to have the conversations 
and to see the power of that. 

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So yeah I'm, I'm just blown away
and we want to keep on 

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encouraging you guys right in. 
We'll get you know because again

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we are getting a few now which 
was we just weren't prepared 

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for. 
So please, if we do have a 

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little the delay or if we 
haven't answered it on a podcast

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like answered your questions or 
your inquiry, well, not 

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inquiries. 
If. 

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We haven't, yeah. 
If we haven't responded to 

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whatever you've written in, 
yeah. 

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On on the episode just give us 
time you know a game we we were 

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not prepared for this amount of 
input and so we're in a bit of 

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catch up but I'm I'm so thankful
for you guys and just being a 

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part of this with us. 
It's just it's just reconfirms 

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what what our theory our 
thoughts. 

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Were thank you. 
And I'm going to say before we 

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dive into this chat as well, the
interesting thing we've 

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discovered is that well it's not
interesting. 

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This is totally predictable that
most of our listeners are 

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female, which is very normal for
any kind of online content, most

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especially relationship related.
Most will be female. 

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But the most feedback we've been
getting genuinely is from men. 

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And it's really interesting. 
A few people being like, I was, 

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I saw this stuff and I was like,
that's not going to be my thing.

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And then then I was like, oh, 
whatever, I'll just try it. 

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And and then they've gotten 
really into and listen to every 

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episode we have. 
And then they've. 

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Written and they've written, 
yeah, we've had multiple men 

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that have that are up to date on
every episode and commenting on 

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it and it's just, it's awesome. 
So what I want to say 

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specifically for this episode, 
but also in general, like, I 

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just challenge you in this 
literal moment right now that 

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you're listening to just think, 
who are three people that I 

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could suggest this podcast to, 
but specifically this episode as

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well? 
Who are some men in my life that

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I could suggest this podcast to?
Because what we're about to chat

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about is something that is 
really universal. 

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Again, maybe not the way we 
navigate it, but as universal to

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most couples and is hopefully 
going to be something that's a 

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really good conversation starter
and a tool and resource for even

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just starting that exploration 
in your relationship that 

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sometimes guys maybe aren't 
aware of. 

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So this episode in particular, 
I'd love to challenge you to 

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just think who are people I 
could share this with? 

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And also specifically, who are 
some men in my life that might 

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benefit from this too? 
Even though I wouldn't 

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necessarily first think men in 
this podcast, but it seems to be

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being a blessing to them. 
So absolutely that's our spiel. 

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What is the topic? 
Yeah. 

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Well, on that, on that note, the
topic of this episode, this chit

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chat, is mental load, which is a
phrase that we discovered I 

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think was like last year or the 
year before. 

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Sometime. 
Recently, however, it is a 

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concept that has been in our 
relationship since the 

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beginning. 
It's just something that I 

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didn't have the words for. 
The words for it a structure 

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around it until whenever I 
discovered it in the last couple

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of years and then I was able to,
I was like, oh, I saw this real 

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that was really intriguing and 
it was a man that was talking 

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about in his relationship. 
Psychologist for something, I 

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think. 
Maybe, yeah. 

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I can't even remember who it 
was. 

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I just remember seeing the real 
and he was talking about the 

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mental load within a 
relationship and the imbalance 

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there and specifically about 
grocery shopping, which we'll 

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talk about as we go into the 
chat. 

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And so I showed Blair this real 
because he worked with dads and 

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also just for our relationship 
as well. 

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And then it was like a concept 
that was introduced to him and 

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it was just, it was really 
fascinating to kind of realise 

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how much blind spot there is on 
both sides to this concept, but 

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how prevalent it is in 
relationships. 

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So we thought, and we've 
mentioned it on the podcast or 

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in passing, but we thought it 
definitely deserved a sort of 

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chit chat. 
Yeah, so that is why we are 

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here. 
Tonight, and I wanna say as 

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well, a lot of the things that 
we're talking about in this 

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episode I struggle with. 
So it's it's important for me to

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say that because again, I don't 
want to be coming across of 

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like, alright guys, you need to 
be doing this, doing be doing 

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that, whatever else. 
I actually really struggle with 

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this and when Amy showed this to
me, it was like a light bulb 

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went off in my head. 
I'm like, I do that. 

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I hadn't, I I hadn't even 
thought of this before you 

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brought it to my attention and 
I've shared it to many guys 

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since then. 
Yeah, we've already we've ever 

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made a a webinar about this for 
my work and it's like it's so 

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much. 
And again, the impact has been 

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huge. 
Again, not everyone is going to 

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agree. 
That's completely fine. 

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A lot of guys just might not see
it. 

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That's completely fine. 
What we're trying to do in this 

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is encourage the conversation. 
So women, if you're hearing this

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episode, we want to encourage 
you to have this conversation 

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with your partner and we want to
talk about ways in which we can 

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do that, how you start the 
conversation and so forth and 

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how we did that because that's a
sensitive thing. 

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And also guys be receptive, like
try and let your barriers down, 

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let your walls down, just just 
listen and see and just just 

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reflects your your your way of 
interacting, your way of 

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communicating, the way that 
you're trying to show love. 

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Because again, we're going to 
dive into this soon and just 

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just here. 
It's just we really want to 

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encourage you to listen and 
reflect and talk lost. 

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That's something that I really 
have been wrestling with and 

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trying to grow in is talk last. 
I'm a verbal processor, so 

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that's really hard to do, but it
actually helps my verbal 

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processing if I listen first, 
reflect, then talk and process. 

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So just want to encourage that 
if that's gonna help you guys. 

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And just one last little 
disclaimer before we dive in. 

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Obviously this is generalising, 
so it's not always men and women

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that will fall into these 
categories in this way that 

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we're going to talk about 
generally. 

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This is how it plays out, may 
not be the case for your 

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situation. 
So just disclaimer generalising 

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a little bit and just so we 
don't have to say the whole way 

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through, that's, that's what 
we're starting with. 

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Cool. 
Let's dive in guys. 

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00:10:55,550 --> 00:10:58,880
We have an exciting update. 
What's our exciting? 

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00:10:58,890 --> 00:11:02,650
Update Patreon. 
And Spotify subscription. 

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00:11:02,660 --> 00:11:06,620
Spotify Some. 
We have some really great 

218
00:11:06,690 --> 00:11:10,760
quality raw extra content that 
we are going to be posting on 

219
00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:12,880
our Patreon and our Spotify 
subscription. 

220
00:11:12,890 --> 00:11:15,660
So if you are interested in a 
little bit more from our 

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00:11:15,670 --> 00:11:17,920
episodes, if you get to the end 
and you're like, I want one more

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00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:19,950
story, now you. 
Know. 

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00:11:20,690 --> 00:11:23,240
It's also going to be a place 
where we will be updating, 

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00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:27,060
sending resources and just 
keeping our little community 

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00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:30,900
growing and extending there. 
So if you're interested at all, 

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00:11:31,090 --> 00:11:33,650
please check it out. 
We will post about how to sign 

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00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,060
up. 
If you have any questions, let 

228
00:11:35,070 --> 00:11:37,720
us know. 
Get on to the Patreon. 

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00:11:37,790 --> 00:11:39,940
Get on to the Spotify 
subscription. 

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00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:42,130
Yeah. 
Thank you. 

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So to start, I thought it would 
be great to just kind of even 

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just give a definition of what 
mental load is. 

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So mental load I was, I was 
doing a quick Google, I found it

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00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:55,880
really well worded on a blog. 
So I've just literally taken a 

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word for word and I'm going to 
tell you what the blog was is 

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written by Randy Donahue in my 
home. 

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Yep. 
The definition that she wrote 

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out was mental load is the 
cognitive and emotional effort 

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used to manage your life and in 
many cases the lives of others. 

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And everything that I can see 
about it is it's basically the 

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invisible tasks. 
So we all know workload, right? 

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We've heard workload as we've 
grown up and gone into the 

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workforce and that kind of 
thing. 

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I think even in your family, in 
your household is fairly easy to

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see the the physical visible 
tasks in terms of workload, you 

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00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:37,240
might have that kind of worked 
out how that lies with each 

247
00:12:37,250 --> 00:12:39,130
partner, but there's a visible 
task. 

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The mental load is the invisible
tasks that sit on the mind and 

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00:12:43,580 --> 00:12:46,840
they tick away and they take a 
great deal of effort and they 

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00:12:46,930 --> 00:12:51,090
actually impact a lot of all the
other aspects of your life. 

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00:12:51,140 --> 00:12:55,250
But they're really, they're hard
to kind of express that you 

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00:12:55,260 --> 00:12:57,910
can't see them. 
And so it's like it's real easy 

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00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,150
for a partner to not be aware of
them happening. 

254
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,690
It's even easy for the person 
who's got the mental load going 

255
00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:06,170
on should not really be aware of
what's going on because all they

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00:13:06,180 --> 00:13:08,970
know is they're stressed. 
They wouldn't necessarily have 

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00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:12,290
words around it. 
Mental note is the cognitive and

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00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:15,110
emotional effort used to manage 
your life, and in many cases, 

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00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,790
the lives of others. 
So mental load could look 

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00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,070
different for each couple and 
probably will. 

261
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,800
But I found a list at 
healthline.com that was really 

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00:13:23,810 --> 00:13:27,170
helpful with just some general 
ones that might be common. 

263
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,640
And the first thing that they 
start with is, does the refrain 

264
00:13:30,650 --> 00:13:33,600
of just tell me if you need me 
or let me know if I can help 

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00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:36,350
sound familiar? 
And I thought, yes, those are 

266
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,760
great like that. 
Those two things on their own is

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00:13:39,770 --> 00:13:42,390
a really good way of kind of 
defining what mental load is. 

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00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:46,760
So here are some things that 
might be causing mental load. 

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00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:50,660
Having to remind people to pay 
bills or handle other essential 

270
00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:53,720
tasks. 
Needing to offer praise or pass 

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00:13:53,730 --> 00:13:56,040
on the back for handling 
necessary chores around the 

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00:13:56,050 --> 00:13:58,320
house like the dishes or things 
that are just you need to do 

273
00:13:58,330 --> 00:14:00,360
them. 
Keeping track of parenting 

274
00:14:00,370 --> 00:14:04,360
related daily details like 
school plans after school plans,

275
00:14:04,370 --> 00:14:07,410
permission slips, library books,
due dates, doctor's 

276
00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:09,800
appointments. 
Checking in on the kids, 

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00:14:09,810 --> 00:14:13,510
physical and emotional needs. 
Making to do lists, grocery 

278
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,910
lists or chore chore charts. 
Purchasing and wrapping gifts 

279
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,970
for friends and loved ones, 
birthdays, anniversaries, 

280
00:14:20,980 --> 00:14:23,930
Christmas, etcetera. 
Scheduling date nights, 

281
00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:26,630
vacations and visits to family 
or friends. 

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00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,660
Lacking the time to pursue 
leisure activities when your 

283
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:31,810
partner does have time to pursue
leisure. 

284
00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:35,640
Leisure activities, childcare. 
The presumption that you have 

285
00:14:35,650 --> 00:14:38,320
the kids when your partner is 
going to do something, but you 

286
00:14:38,330 --> 00:14:41,340
having to arrange for your 
partner to have the kids when 

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00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:44,460
you go to do something. 
Finishing off tasks. 

288
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:47,480
So the partner might do most of 
the tasks, but then there's a 

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00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:49,350
little bit that you have to 
finish up for them because they 

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00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,580
haven't completed the task. 
Using the last of something. 

291
00:14:52,590 --> 00:14:55,480
So leaving one egg in the egg 
carton, or leaving like a 

292
00:14:55,490 --> 00:14:58,180
tablespoon of milk in the milk 
carton and not replacing it, or 

293
00:14:58,190 --> 00:15:00,980
not letting you know that it's 
almost empty so you'd have to 

294
00:15:00,990 --> 00:15:05,090
discover on your own. 
Another example is leaving only 

295
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:07,730
like a few sheets, little 
squares of toilet paper on the 

296
00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:11,630
toilet roll I'm not looking at. 
You you did you. 

297
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,490
I also do it sometimes. 
Sometimes and getting the house 

298
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:20,550
and the family ready for tasks 
or the night or when you leave 

299
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,270
on holidays, those kinds of 
things. 

300
00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:27,190
So this is a list of just 
obviously big bunch of random 

301
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,910
things. 
I thought I might dive into a 

302
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,370
few of these because a few of 
these already are applicable to 

303
00:15:31,380 --> 00:15:32,690
us. 
But the first one I thought 

304
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:34,670
maybe is a good one to chat 
through that we first talked 

305
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:35,910
about, which was grocery 
shopping. 

306
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,350
That was the first. 
Kind of like light bulb. 

307
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,660
Do you wanna explain? 
Yeah, because that was, that 

308
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:43,290
was, well, back in the day, the 
conversation you brought up, and

309
00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:46,380
that was your example and now 
for me was like, oh man, that's 

310
00:15:46,390 --> 00:15:48,240
so true. 
So yeah, grocery shopping. 

311
00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:52,150
So for example, you know, you, 
you will go back in the day, you

312
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,470
would go grocery shopping and 
you've gone through the pantry, 

313
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,800
you've gone through the fridge, 
you've looked at what we need, 

314
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:59,140
you know, do we need dishwashing
tablets? 

315
00:15:59,150 --> 00:16:01,500
Do we need whatever else? 
Right. 

316
00:16:01,570 --> 00:16:04,220
You've done all that. 
Then you go with your list to 

317
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:08,020
the shops. 
And for me, what I was doing was

318
00:16:08,030 --> 00:16:09,180
like, alright, I'm going to do 
this. 

319
00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:10,980
I want to step up. 
I'm gonna do the groceries 

320
00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:13,970
because it needs to be done. 
I wanna step up and and and I 

321
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:15,610
want to rely on you for 
everything. 

322
00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:17,690
So what I would do is say Amy, 
what do we need? 

323
00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:19,280
The shops. 
I'm gonna go shopping. 

324
00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:21,310
And that right there was the 
mental load. 

325
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:25,490
I was still relying on Amy to 
put the list together for me so 

326
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:28,950
I can go do the thing. 
And for me, I'm like, I'm doing 

327
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,430
a great thing here. 
I am, you know? 

328
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,450
Well, not it's, it's going 
grocery shopping. 

329
00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:34,710
I'm good thing. 
I'm doing good thing. 

330
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,630
Like I'm doing a responsible 
thing, you know, stepping up to 

331
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,480
the plate. 
I'm, you know, providing for my 

332
00:16:39,490 --> 00:16:41,470
family. 
I'm not relying on Amy, but I 

333
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,750
was relying on Amy's, which is 
the mental load. 

334
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,870
There were times just this is 
not a big issue, the grocery 

335
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,970
shopping thing. 
But I do remember times where 

336
00:16:50,110 --> 00:16:53,550
you would go grocery shopping 
and in my head I'm like I should

337
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:54,900
be grateful he's grocery 
shopping. 

338
00:16:54,910 --> 00:16:58,600
But it still felt like a lot of 
work and I I never had words to 

339
00:16:58,610 --> 00:17:01,100
put to it. 
Yeah I never was like it feels 

340
00:17:01,110 --> 00:17:03,580
like it's a lot of work because 
I am still having to fill out 

341
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:05,859
the list when blah blah. 
Like I just didn't have it clear

342
00:17:05,869 --> 00:17:07,880
in my head. 
But just like I would feel like 

343
00:17:07,890 --> 00:17:12,530
a like frustration or a burden 
or like an ark with it even 

344
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:14,260
though something that you're 
doing nice and so it would be 

345
00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:16,160
very easy. 
And I think this is what the 

346
00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:19,480
trap is for couples in general 
with this to be like. 

347
00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:22,619
But he is doing something, but 
he's doing something good. 

348
00:17:23,010 --> 00:17:24,960
I shouldn't like Nah, he's doing
something good. 

349
00:17:24,970 --> 00:17:28,089
Or to even be like, I'm really 
annoyed and I'm just gonna be 

350
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:29,420
annoyed. 
Like you could either go either 

351
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:33,830
way, like dismissing them being 
like negative critical or you 

352
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,610
could go dismissing yourself and
your frustrations because like, 

353
00:17:36,620 --> 00:17:37,910
oh, but they are doing something
good. 

354
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,770
Or he did, he did take the bins 
out three days ago. 

355
00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:42,120
So I shouldn't have that kind of
thing. 

356
00:17:42,130 --> 00:17:45,790
Like it's a real unless you have
a clarity around it. 

357
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,710
It's easy to to kind of get lost
in this big mess of confusion of

358
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,150
mental load. 
So when I give an example of 

359
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,970
what we came up with after that,
So what could it look like? 

360
00:17:54,980 --> 00:17:57,770
Right. 
So I have a look and I'll see 

361
00:17:57,780 --> 00:18:00,120
what things we need. 
So I do that myself and don't 

362
00:18:00,130 --> 00:18:02,210
rely on any. 
But it's OK for me to come to 

363
00:18:02,220 --> 00:18:05,120
Amy and say I'm going down the 
shop, so I'm gonna get XYZ. 

364
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:07,920
What else do we need? 
So even though I'm still 

365
00:18:07,930 --> 00:18:10,520
including Amy in the 
conversation, it's not putting 

366
00:18:10,530 --> 00:18:12,340
it all on her. 
It's like, no, I'm doing all 

367
00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:13,900
this. 
Just wanna check in. 

368
00:18:13,910 --> 00:18:17,700
Is there anything else? 
So that's not a cop out? 

369
00:18:17,770 --> 00:18:19,330
And we have to be very careful 
with that. 

370
00:18:19,340 --> 00:18:21,970
I'm not just like finding that 
we need eggs, but not putting 

371
00:18:21,980 --> 00:18:24,520
anything else on the list and 
then relying on Amy's. 

372
00:18:24,530 --> 00:18:27,600
Like, no, no, I'm doing my part.
I've done my look, I've, I've 

373
00:18:27,610 --> 00:18:30,080
done that. 
But is there anything else that 

374
00:18:30,090 --> 00:18:32,120
you spotted? 
And this is really important 

375
00:18:32,130 --> 00:18:33,940
too. 
Like what you said is you didn't

376
00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:36,810
just bring this up and be like 
Blair. 

377
00:18:36,890 --> 00:18:39,740
You are putting so much on me on
my mental load. 

378
00:18:39,810 --> 00:18:44,240
Like I I, you know, I feel like 
I'm taking on your stuff too. 

379
00:18:44,250 --> 00:18:47,280
It was none of that. 
It was, hey, this is an 

380
00:18:47,290 --> 00:18:50,670
interesting thing. 
What's a way that we can help 

381
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,340
you with that? 
And it feels weird cause I feel 

382
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:57,920
like a baby saying this like I 
really do. 

383
00:18:57,930 --> 00:19:00,540
I feel like kind of your 
mothering me a little bit in 

384
00:19:00,550 --> 00:19:03,770
this space and it's really 
annoying and I wish it was 

385
00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:06,190
different. 
Reality is it's not. 

386
00:19:06,250 --> 00:19:09,620
And and this is a big part of 
the journey for a lot of guys 

387
00:19:09,630 --> 00:19:12,220
and I don't understand why I 
completely and we've got some 

388
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:18,340
ideas but for for some reason a 
lot of guys need that help to 

389
00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:21,300
think at this level for some 
reason and I was one of them. 

390
00:19:21,310 --> 00:19:25,440
So yeah, that has been a big 
part of this discovery. 

391
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:29,790
It's not only just discovering 
what it is, but how do I grow in

392
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:30,570
that? 
Yeah. 

393
00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:35,950
And I think the really big thing
is there are a tonne of cultural

394
00:19:36,340 --> 00:19:38,830
things around this. 
So when you become a mum, 

395
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,210
specifically, you enter into 
this realm of motherhood and 

396
00:19:43,220 --> 00:19:47,370
there are lots of opportunities 
to get frustrated at your 

397
00:19:47,380 --> 00:19:49,790
partner. 
A lot of the time it was 

398
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,580
legitimate frustrations. 
And I feel like we've said this 

399
00:19:52,590 --> 00:19:55,840
in so many episodes, like 
legitimate frustrations where 

400
00:19:55,850 --> 00:19:58,560
the husband or the partner just 
cannot step up. 

401
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,230
And it just when you hear the 
story, which makes sense, how it

402
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,440
becomes this culture, you hear 
this story and you're like. 

403
00:20:03,550 --> 00:20:06,960
What is that guy's deal? 
Yeah, why can he not step up? 

404
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:09,630
It's so ridiculous that such a 
tiny thing, why does she have to

405
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,500
be his mother, blah blah blah 
and you just It just is a self 

406
00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:15,400
fulfilling prophecy because once
that culture starts then it's 

407
00:20:15,410 --> 00:20:19,800
like a big really difficult 
machine to stop because it is 

408
00:20:19,850 --> 00:20:23,860
continuing to reinforce itself. 
What I've realised almost none 

409
00:20:23,870 --> 00:20:26,480
of those guys I believe would 
want to be that way. 

410
00:20:26,530 --> 00:20:29,480
Almost none of those guys, if 
they heard the hurt that they 

411
00:20:29,490 --> 00:20:32,610
were causing their partner, 
almost none of them would just 

412
00:20:32,620 --> 00:20:36,290
be satisfied to be like, Oh 
yeah, that's what I do like, 

413
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,610
genuinely inside they might have
that front. 

414
00:20:38,620 --> 00:20:41,710
I don't know. 
I think for so many reasons, 

415
00:20:41,980 --> 00:20:47,370
they are unaware, not equipped, 
too scared, insecure, whatever 

416
00:20:47,380 --> 00:20:49,070
it might be. 
There's like a bazillion reasons

417
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,530
that might be thrown at them and
and once you kind of ingrain 

418
00:20:52,540 --> 00:20:55,910
yourselves in your in the roles 
of your family, it can be really

419
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,950
hard to change that, especially 
as you have kids and you really 

420
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:02,450
like your roles just kind of get
more and more and more and more 

421
00:21:02,460 --> 00:21:05,800
reinforced. 
And so one huge heart that I 

422
00:21:05,810 --> 00:21:08,840
have behind this conversation is
it's not about like this is what

423
00:21:08,850 --> 00:21:10,680
guys are missing. 
This is kind of what you've just

424
00:21:10,690 --> 00:21:12,800
said. 
It's not what you're missing. 

425
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,720
It's sad that you miss it. 
It's sad that something's 

426
00:21:15,730 --> 00:21:16,920
happened. 
And there's a few things like 

427
00:21:16,930 --> 00:21:21,570
you said that that I think we've
looked into why it might pan out

428
00:21:21,580 --> 00:21:24,120
the way it does. 
It's sad that it's missing. 

429
00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:27,040
It's sad that it's a fact, but 
it is a fact. 

430
00:21:27,050 --> 00:21:29,720
And so you kind of have to be 
like, what is the goal that I 

431
00:21:29,730 --> 00:21:32,670
have for the relationship? 
What do I want it to be like? 

432
00:21:32,730 --> 00:21:36,040
As as the person that struggles 
more with the mental load, I 

433
00:21:36,050 --> 00:21:39,030
could be bitter and frustrated 
that Blair doesn't pick up on 

434
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,020
some of those things, and I 
could just sit in my head and 

435
00:21:42,030 --> 00:21:44,530
Stonewall like we talked about 
in the Four Horsemen episode. 

436
00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:48,590
Stonewall. 
Like get internal with it, get 

437
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,410
bitter about it, get critical 
about it. 

438
00:21:50,460 --> 00:21:53,830
For good reason, because I'm 
doing a lot of work, but for 

439
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,070
unproductive and not 
constructive reasons. 

440
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,620
Or I could be like this is how 
it is, we need to communicate 

441
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:04,220
through it. 
This is not what I want our 

442
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:06,070
relationship to be like in five 
years time. 

443
00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:10,150
What I do want it to be like is 
for us to both feel equipped, to

444
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,830
both feel safe, to feel like a 
team and that's gonna take some 

445
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,630
steps. 
Like you've just said, that 

446
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,570
might be might feel a little 
patronising or might feel a 

447
00:22:19,580 --> 00:22:24,560
little like unnecessary, but are
going to work towards the 

448
00:22:24,570 --> 00:22:26,030
culture that you do want for 
your family. 

449
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,860
Hmm. 
I think a big thing too is, you 

450
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:30,690
know. 
Again I want to speak to the 

451
00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:34,270
guys here. 
This is this seems to be bought 

452
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,350
in you know means by by both 
sides of the couple like you. 

453
00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:42,790
If you brought this to me and 
I'm like well it is what it is I

454
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,070
like. 
It's funny that's gonna be such 

455
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:45,770
a kick in the. 
Guts. 

456
00:22:45,780 --> 00:22:47,110
I would just never talk about it
again. 

457
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:48,730
Exactly. 
And then it's just going to be 

458
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:51,170
the way that it is. 
And that's not fair on you. 

459
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,890
But the same time, let's say 
two, I love working on this. 

460
00:22:55,980 --> 00:22:57,730
You know, I don't know. 
I've got a long way to go. 

461
00:22:57,740 --> 00:23:00,840
I really do. 
But I love it when I'm like, oh,

462
00:23:00,850 --> 00:23:03,440
I know what I've done. 
Like, oh, I've, you know, I've 

463
00:23:03,450 --> 00:23:07,060
done, I've looked at the 
shopping list and I've asked 

464
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,630
what else you want to be in. 
I I love that because I know the

465
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,950
difference. 
Alarming and and it's it feels 

466
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,300
like petty talking about the 
shopping list. 

467
00:23:15,310 --> 00:23:17,840
The shopping list is like one of
the smallest things that we're 

468
00:23:17,850 --> 00:23:20,050
talking about right now. 
It's a very good example, they. 

469
00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:22,050
Don't. 
Yeah, don't get caught up on the

470
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:24,890
shopping list thing. 
It's just a small thing that 

471
00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:26,750
started this conversation for 
us. 

472
00:23:26,820 --> 00:23:29,910
Yeah, so when you guys having 
this conversation at home, move 

473
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,290
on from just the shopping list. 
It's not a shopping list 

474
00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:34,650
conversation. 
It's a mental load in general 

475
00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:36,660
conversation. 
Yeah, yeah. 

476
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,090
As I was going through it, I 
even said to play before like a 

477
00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:43,430
few of these are things that I I
do see in our relationship and. 

478
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,210
It's not nervous. 
Not to be critical. 

479
00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:48,420
It's not to be critical because 
there's so much that there's so 

480
00:23:48,430 --> 00:23:50,380
much that goes into how we've 
ended up this way. 

481
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:53,300
And I was even saying when we 
were preparing to, I don't know 

482
00:23:53,310 --> 00:23:56,440
how I ended up in this role. 
Like, I'm really intrigued by 

483
00:23:56,450 --> 00:23:58,780
how this happens. 
Not because it's been done to 

484
00:23:58,790 --> 00:24:03,540
me, but like I wasn't super 
independent or super well 

485
00:24:03,550 --> 00:24:06,350
established in managing a 
household before we got 

486
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,580
together. 
And you actually were really 

487
00:24:08,590 --> 00:24:10,730
independent and very, very 
capable in managing your 

488
00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:12,460
household. 
So it's funny that this just 

489
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:18,010
naturally is how it progresses. 
Going to run by you to see how 

490
00:24:18,020 --> 00:24:20,310
you see it or what you feel 
about it. 

491
00:24:20,380 --> 00:24:25,290
Do you think that because I work
more than you and you're at home

492
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:29,210
more with the kids and 
surrounded by that, do you think

493
00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:30,690
that has a big part to play in 
it? 

494
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:34,610
So. 
The other part too is so my 

495
00:24:34,620 --> 00:24:37,530
burnout. 
I didn't work for about a year 

496
00:24:37,580 --> 00:24:40,230
right now. 
This was isn't completely true 

497
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,430
because I was having a lot of 
mental health issues that you 

498
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,080
still have to take step in for, 
which is a whole other thing. 

499
00:24:46,090 --> 00:24:48,610
And you had to get counselling 
over my burnout too, right? 

500
00:24:48,620 --> 00:24:52,650
Like it was a big, big thing. 
But that season of me being a 

501
00:24:52,660 --> 00:24:56,450
stay at home, Dad opened my eyes
so much more to the mental load 

502
00:24:56,460 --> 00:24:59,410
stuff because I had. 
I couldn't rely on you anymore. 

503
00:24:59,420 --> 00:25:02,010
Yeah, you weren't there. 
You were working. 

504
00:25:02,060 --> 00:25:06,070
I was at home with the kids, our
kids went in school, yet I was 

505
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,930
at home with the kids and all of
those things did come on to me. 

506
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:11,070
So I feel like it gave me a 
whole other level of 

507
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,250
appreciation of what you did. 
Well, my mum used to do when 

508
00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:17,690
other mums do and and now like 
there's a there's a lot more to 

509
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:19,950
stay at home dads now than ever 
before. 

510
00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:23,290
I had this whole level of 
appreciation for the stay at 

511
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:24,420
home parent. 
Yeah. 

512
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,070
What are your thoughts on that 
in terms of obviously it's not 

513
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:35,050
the answer, but how much of that
would be impacting? 

514
00:25:35,060 --> 00:25:37,110
It I definitely think that 
played a part. 

515
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:40,830
I also think my personality days
apart like I'm I'm a warrior, so

516
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,630
I just not a warrior, Like a 
fighter, like A warrior, like a 

517
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,890
warrior. 
I buy more nails and I worry. 

518
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,330
It's usually felt like worry. 
I'm a warrior woman. 

519
00:25:49,340 --> 00:25:52,130
I'm a warrior woman. 
I mean, yeah, you are. 

520
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:56,450
You are. 
I I am an anxious personality. 

521
00:25:56,460 --> 00:25:59,930
I can be anxious. 
And so my mind is the kind of 

522
00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:02,880
mind that would overthink things
or would like, you know, see 

523
00:26:02,890 --> 00:26:05,750
things that could happen and 
catastrophic thinking and how to

524
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,150
prevent the things that I'm 
catastrophically thinking about 

525
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,850
and that kind of thing. 
So I think there's that aspect 

526
00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:12,980
too. 
There's how you how you brought 

527
00:26:12,990 --> 00:26:15,450
up would be a part of it. 
Like your family dynamics, the 

528
00:26:15,460 --> 00:26:18,370
roles that your parents played, 
how you just naturally fall into

529
00:26:18,380 --> 00:26:22,290
them. 
Like I said, I wasn't super like

530
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,250
what would you call it? 
Not maternal cause it's not 

531
00:26:24,260 --> 00:26:26,470
motherhood but super woman 
neuronal. 

532
00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:30,580
There it is one. 
Arnold I wasn't like in that 

533
00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:33,700
role before we were together, 
but because I had seen more 

534
00:26:33,710 --> 00:26:36,240
traditional roles in my parents,
potentially when we did get 

535
00:26:36,250 --> 00:26:38,280
together was like, OK, that's 
where I'm going. 

536
00:26:38,290 --> 00:26:41,330
So my brain just went there. 
But I did actually look up a 

537
00:26:41,340 --> 00:26:44,180
couple of things that will help.
There's a study that was done by

538
00:26:44,190 --> 00:26:46,980
someone who is a student at 
Harvard, I believe that was 

539
00:26:46,990 --> 00:26:51,020
really interesting on mental 
load and also just a few points 

540
00:26:51,030 --> 00:26:54,590
on why it is that it usually 
ends up the woman with more 

541
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,620
mental loading and why the man 
might struggle to identify it. 

542
00:26:59,130 --> 00:27:03,530
So firstly there was a a study 
done by this student called 

543
00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:08,300
Allison Damager and it is on the
household labour or the 

544
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:10,020
cognitive dimension of household
labour. 

545
00:27:10,030 --> 00:27:13,750
To be specific, which is the 
cognitive side of the household 

546
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,710
labour? 
Which is a lot of words. 

547
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,380
Yeah, a lot of words, exactly. 
And she really interestingly 

548
00:27:18,390 --> 00:27:22,160
dived, divided mental load into 
four different aspects. 

549
00:27:22,210 --> 00:27:25,640
So there's anticipating, 
identifying, deciding and 

550
00:27:25,650 --> 00:27:29,000
monitoring. 
And so anticipating means 

551
00:27:29,330 --> 00:27:32,430
looking ahead at what's coming. 
So you could put the example 

552
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,920
they they have in this article 
is anticipating this, this 

553
00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:37,580
school year that's coming, 
looking for schools. 

554
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:39,000
You know, you need to get a 
school for your kids. 

555
00:27:39,010 --> 00:27:41,130
You're like, oh, I need to get 
on to that as anticipating. 

556
00:27:41,140 --> 00:27:45,150
That's part of the mental load. 
Then there is identifying, and 

557
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,180
that involves things like 
setting up tours to schools or 

558
00:27:48,190 --> 00:27:51,330
identifying what options of 
schools are around or talking to

559
00:27:51,340 --> 00:27:53,420
your friends about what schools 
might be good, or thinking about

560
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:55,460
your kid and what they might 
need in their school, that kind 

561
00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:56,840
of thing. 
So you've got, you've 

562
00:27:56,910 --> 00:27:59,350
anticipated that's coming up. 
I need to get on to it. 

563
00:27:59,450 --> 00:28:02,320
Then you've identified what's 
around, what are the options. 

564
00:28:02,390 --> 00:28:05,660
Then the next step is deciding. 
So choosing the best school for 

565
00:28:05,670 --> 00:28:08,560
your kid, you've gone to the 
tours, now you're deciding on 

566
00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:09,980
it. 
You're deciding on what works 

567
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:12,680
for your budget, you're deciding
on what works for your house. 

568
00:28:12,770 --> 00:28:14,460
And then the 4th one is 
monitoring. 

569
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:17,240
So that is making sure all the 
paperwork is in, is making sure 

570
00:28:17,250 --> 00:28:19,320
all the school supplies are 
ready, all their uniforms are 

571
00:28:19,330 --> 00:28:20,970
ready, that the child's ready 
for first day. 

572
00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:24,580
So there's four different steps 
to mental load, looking ahead, 

573
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,400
recognising what you need to do 
to do that, making decisions 

574
00:28:28,410 --> 00:28:30,590
once you've recognised what 
needs to be done, and then also 

575
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,470
monitoring on the other side to 
make sure it's been done well. 

576
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,090
And so when they did this study,
they looked at 35 different sets

577
00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:41,310
of parents specifically and try 
to figure out where the tasks 

578
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,990
sat within the couple. 
And they found out that women 

579
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,320
were much more likely to handle 
the anticipating part, the first

580
00:28:47,330 --> 00:28:49,330
part. 
So flagging this is coming up, 

581
00:28:49,340 --> 00:28:51,830
we got to think about this, 
everything about this, and then 

582
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,090
also more likely to handle the 
monitoring on the other side to 

583
00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:58,600
make sure it's been done well. 
Well then they said that they're

584
00:28:58,610 --> 00:29:02,310
deciding making the decisions 
tractor was fairly equal between

585
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,200
the two, so it wasn't 
necessarily super one sided. 

586
00:29:05,250 --> 00:29:08,680
They also didn't have for some 
reason the result for 

587
00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:10,880
identifying. 
So the part where you're looking

588
00:29:10,890 --> 00:29:13,750
at what schools are good, I'm 
assuming that's kind of part of 

589
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,490
the deciding factor because 
you're looking at this school's 

590
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:19,000
good and this school's good and 
then you decide on the school. 

591
00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:20,760
So it's probably more of a 
partnership thing. 

592
00:29:21,450 --> 00:29:23,440
I thought that was really 
interesting because I think that

593
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:25,560
plays out big time in our 
relationship. 

594
00:29:25,570 --> 00:29:27,200
Hmm. 
I will. 

595
00:29:27,290 --> 00:29:30,440
Things like doctor's 
appointments or yeah, the school

596
00:29:30,450 --> 00:29:32,800
stuff was a big thing too, 
getting that stuff in and then 

597
00:29:32,810 --> 00:29:34,760
also making sure all the little 
things are done, like their 

598
00:29:34,770 --> 00:29:37,580
applications were done where 
their birth certificates are, so

599
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:39,200
I can get their birth 
certificates on their 

600
00:29:39,210 --> 00:29:42,010
applications. 
If it's if you talking about 

601
00:29:42,020 --> 00:29:43,890
doctors appointments, going on 
the other side of a doctor's 

602
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:45,820
appointment and being like, Oh 
yeah, I need to get back to the 

603
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:48,820
ENT to get into them, get their 
grommets checked. 

604
00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:51,180
And that's a year from now. 
So I gotta make sure I'm doing 

605
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:52,800
that. 
And then whenever they complain 

606
00:29:52,810 --> 00:29:54,520
of a sore ear, I'm like, oh, 
when is that doctor's 

607
00:29:54,530 --> 00:29:55,840
appointment about the grommets 
kind of thing? 

608
00:29:55,850 --> 00:29:58,990
Whereas you don't have much of 
that follow. 

609
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,890
Up not not at home, but I do 
with work and this was gonna you

610
00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:04,950
model. 
So yeah, that's that's I think 

611
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,090
that's the case is like we said 
at the beginning generalising. 

612
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:11,590
So you would have mental light 
for work 100%. 

613
00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:14,150
This is more talking about the 
mental load that ends up in the 

614
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,260
household. 
Hmm. 

615
00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:17,100
How do they? 
Does it say anything about how 

616
00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:19,170
they get to that point? 
Like how do they measure that? 

617
00:30:19,180 --> 00:30:23,710
So, OK, so just hearing you say 
that, I'm like, OK, well I'll do

618
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,360
all those things at work, but 
why does not translate? 

619
00:30:26,370 --> 00:30:28,470
To home, yeah. 
Is there anything in there? 

620
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,950
About So I looked up another 
thing which is, and this is just

621
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,670
to be honest, it was just GPT. 
I just asked why guys can't do 

622
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,360
mental load and they it came 
back with a few things and I 

623
00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:42,350
thought they were pretty good. 
So there's five things that 

624
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,250
whereas identified that may feed
into why guys don't carry the 

625
00:30:46,260 --> 00:30:50,970
mental load at home as often. 
So socialisation, which is like 

626
00:30:50,980 --> 00:30:54,290
traditional gender roles that 
are assigned to women as 

627
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:57,050
primarily responsible for the 
household and emotional labour, 

628
00:30:57,060 --> 00:31:00,410
while men may be socialised to 
prioritise other aspects like 

629
00:31:00,420 --> 00:31:04,160
work life or personal pursuits. 
So that's one thing and I think 

630
00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:08,210
that would be a huge thing and 
like you said, probably changing

631
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,950
as we go forward. 
Second lack of experience. 

632
00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:14,670
Men might not have first hand 
experience with the mental 

633
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,510
burden of managing multiple 
tasks and responsibilities, 

634
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,900
especially if they haven't been 
actively involved in the 

635
00:31:19,910 --> 00:31:23,710
household and caregiving duties.
So as we've also identified 

636
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,010
before mums, when you have a 
child, there's so much, even 

637
00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:30,520
just physically, that is just 
automatically. 

638
00:31:30,570 --> 00:31:33,080
The mom is just automatically 
kind of fed right into that 

639
00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:35,010
role. 
Being pregnant, giving birth, 

640
00:31:35,020 --> 00:31:39,140
breastfeeding, the connection 
that you have with your kid, not

641
00:31:39,150 --> 00:31:42,420
that you're the dad doesn't have
it, but there's just this level 

642
00:31:42,430 --> 00:31:45,780
of comfort that the mom provides
for the baby in the first year 

643
00:31:45,850 --> 00:31:49,960
that is often very special. 
So you're just very quickly put 

644
00:31:49,970 --> 00:31:55,210
right into that role naturally. 
And so I think the more 

645
00:31:55,220 --> 00:31:58,310
opportunities to kind of to 
balance out some of those mental

646
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,570
loads in that for in those first
moments of establishing your 

647
00:32:02,580 --> 00:32:06,430
family whether it's as a couple 
or as a as parents, if it's not 

648
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,920
caught and and established then 
it'd be really easy to just 

649
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,330
that's the pattern that you go 
into. 

650
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,580
The man doesn't have experience 
managing how many feeds a day 

651
00:32:14,590 --> 00:32:18,470
the baby needs and when it needs
to nap and how to get the kid to

652
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,010
school while the baby is napping
cause he's been at work and it's

653
00:32:21,020 --> 00:32:22,370
been automatically the man's 
role. 

654
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,170
And so when you don't have 
experience and you don't have 

655
00:32:25,260 --> 00:32:30,100
that kind of repetition of that 
task, it would automatically not

656
00:32:30,110 --> 00:32:34,220
be on the top of the guy's mind.
It's interesting is you sharing 

657
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:37,070
that stuff too. 
And and again this is an 

658
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,770
unfinished thought hmm. 
But I'm. 

659
00:32:39,780 --> 00:32:41,630
I'm in my head. 
I remember back to a 

660
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,670
conversation I had with a friend
of mine. 

661
00:32:43,740 --> 00:32:47,630
Now we've got a daughter and 
multiple boys. 

662
00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:51,490
He has a daughter and multiple 
boys and we, me and my mate, 

663
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:54,150
we're making this observation 
that our daughter. 

664
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,470
So I believe for us we've given 
equal responsibility amongst our

665
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,320
kids. 
Right. 

666
00:32:59,330 --> 00:33:01,650
And especially looking after our
youngest. 

667
00:33:01,660 --> 00:33:04,970
You know, I mean we encourage 
them all to do, to feed him to 

668
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,430
you know get his clothes to like
get him off the window with his 

669
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,040
climbing up the window and or at
the doggy door, whatever else. 

670
00:33:12,090 --> 00:33:14,420
I feel like we've actually tried
to really. 

671
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:17,860
I feel like we've we've done a 
pretty good job in sharing a 

672
00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:21,400
load across all of them. 
But our daughter who is the 

673
00:33:21,410 --> 00:33:27,640
third oldest I feel naturally 
sees things and that sort of 

674
00:33:27,650 --> 00:33:31,900
forward projection stuff, this 
is maybe observed from you. 

675
00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:34,940
I don't know what it is, but 
both of my mate were both saying

676
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:40,520
that we see this natural, 
maternal or woman, woman, anal, 

677
00:33:40,610 --> 00:33:44,070
whatever. 
We decided to call it role 

678
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,550
coming out in our daughters 
already, and they're so young. 

679
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,630
So I wonder if it is something 
that you guys are just built 

680
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,840
with. 
Yeah, exactly. 

681
00:33:52,850 --> 00:33:56,490
Yeah, it's just observations 
that you just see. 

682
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:57,800
Yeah. 
Well, something, I don't know, 

683
00:33:57,810 --> 00:34:00,890
that's just really fascinating. 
Can you look at such young ages?

684
00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:02,470
I'm like, but I'm already seeing
that. 

685
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,850
Yeah. 
And I she has not been taught 

686
00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:08,270
more than our oldest. 
I think it's really important to

687
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:14,110
say that just because one 
partner is more natural at that 

688
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,449
and usually will be the female, 
that is not a bad thing Like it.

689
00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:20,690
No, I don't think at all. 
It's bad that I'm more naturally

690
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:24,710
in tuned into these things. 
The reason this conversation is 

691
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,250
important is that these things 
can go unsaid and actually 

692
00:34:29,260 --> 00:34:32,610
there's there's a big aspect of 
it not being noticed. 

693
00:34:32,620 --> 00:34:35,449
And one thing when you did 
become a stay at home dad that I

694
00:34:35,460 --> 00:34:38,290
think was really important for 
us was that the stuff that you 

695
00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:41,870
would and not that, not that you
ever said anything or were even 

696
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,929
very judgmental at all like 
that, but there was like stuff 

697
00:34:44,969 --> 00:34:46,389
it would literally be in my 
head. 

698
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,719
You would come home and I would 
think, Oh, my gosh, the house 

699
00:34:49,730 --> 00:34:52,010
looks like a mess. 
And I'm a mess when I'm tired 

700
00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:55,130
and everything stressful. 
And I've got nothing to prove. 

701
00:34:55,139 --> 00:34:56,870
Like, I've got nothing to prove 
that it was stressful. 

702
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,580
And I did stuff today. 
Hmm. 

703
00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:02,030
And you were always amazing. 
Like, you never made me feel bad

704
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,640
about that. 
But I know that when you did 

705
00:35:04,650 --> 00:35:07,100
start being with the kids, you 
were like, Oh my gosh, I got 

706
00:35:07,610 --> 00:35:09,490
done. 
And I was like, I know. 

707
00:35:10,300 --> 00:35:11,730
We can relate. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

708
00:35:11,740 --> 00:35:15,230
And so there's a huge part of it
that whether the partner says 

709
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,330
anything or doesn't say anything
again, the mom guilts stuff is 

710
00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:21,970
in your head or the woman guilt 
stuff is in your head. 

711
00:35:22,020 --> 00:35:25,010
And I'd be super intrigued to 
know how it does differ from 

712
00:35:25,380 --> 00:35:27,750
like, couples that aren't 
parents to couples that our 

713
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,660
parents I'd be. 
We were parents so quickly, so 

714
00:35:30,670 --> 00:35:33,360
we didn't have long enough to. 
Well I had this conversation 

715
00:35:33,370 --> 00:35:37,020
with the guy this afternoon that
was is not apparent and he was 

716
00:35:37,070 --> 00:35:39,340
like it was really interesting 
cause he was coming from a 

717
00:35:39,350 --> 00:35:42,140
perspective of I don't really 
struggle with that though. 

718
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:45,050
Like he didn't get what I was 
talking about because he's like 

719
00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:49,840
why would I not look for this 
can I use the shopping analogy 

720
00:35:50,110 --> 00:35:53,620
example And he's like why would 
you not look through the thing 

721
00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:58,180
And yeah this one example but 
again and I'll speak to a lot of

722
00:35:58,190 --> 00:36:02,100
dads to my work and when I'll 
share about mental it's his 

723
00:36:02,110 --> 00:36:06,320
light bulb goes off like ohhhhh 
man, I I get that. 

724
00:36:06,330 --> 00:36:09,010
I see how I do that and you 
don't even realise it. 

725
00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:11,710
Yeah, and I think that's 
probably a different, but again,

726
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,900
I've shared it with other guys 
that are don't have kids and 

727
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:16,620
they're like Oh yeah, I do that 
too, but nowhere near as much. 

728
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:21,620
It's I feel like it's more for 
the dads than this the non 

729
00:36:21,630 --> 00:36:24,870
parent dies. 
And maybe if you're listening 

730
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,820
and you are in a relationship 
that you're you don't have 

731
00:36:27,830 --> 00:36:30,570
children. 
I would love to hear from you 

732
00:36:30,580 --> 00:36:33,460
how this plays out because we 
know the parents side, we don't 

733
00:36:33,470 --> 00:36:35,980
know the the non parent side 
very well because it's such a 

734
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:37,930
little in our lives. 
Yeah. 

735
00:36:38,340 --> 00:36:43,190
So there's a few other things 
that ChatGPT told me that may 

736
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,550
play into it. 
The invisibility of tasks which 

737
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,690
we've spoken about already. 
These tasks are so hard to 

738
00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:51,500
identify. 
So they're not even tasks half 

739
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:53,440
the time. 
Half the time they're they're 

740
00:36:53,450 --> 00:36:55,830
mental task in terms of like 
something that takes up energy, 

741
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,220
but they're not something that 
you will ever see the results of

742
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:02,110
the amount of things everyday 
that I think about. 

743
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,230
For one thing I overthink. 
So I really I wish there was a 

744
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,810
way to stop doing that. 
But you would have no idea the 

745
00:37:07,820 --> 00:37:10,230
amount of little, little pieces 
that I'm just constantly like 

746
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,120
thinking about. 
And you will do some of them. 

747
00:37:13,170 --> 00:37:16,200
But I think our brains just work
so, so differently. 

748
00:37:16,210 --> 00:37:18,620
Yeah, our brains work 
differently and males and 

749
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:21,100
females brains work differently 
and there's a whole bunch of 

750
00:37:21,110 --> 00:37:24,240
mixes in in amongst that. 
So the invisibility of the tasks

751
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:28,080
being so hard to identify for 
the person doing it themselves 

752
00:37:28,090 --> 00:37:31,000
and then even more so for the 
person that isn't doing it. 

753
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:34,870
I think that's a big reason why 
the mental load gets imbalanced.

754
00:37:35,330 --> 00:37:38,120
Elaborate what you mean by 
invisibility of tasks. 

755
00:37:38,170 --> 00:37:41,120
So the example they have is such
as remembering appointments and 

756
00:37:41,130 --> 00:37:44,040
anticipating needs. 
It might be less visible or 

757
00:37:44,050 --> 00:37:46,820
easily overlooked by those who 
aren't directly responsible for 

758
00:37:46,830 --> 00:37:48,670
them. 
So because you're not directly 

759
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,110
responsible for my dentist 
appointments or or even the kids

760
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,490
doctor's appointments, there's 
very few times that you've ever 

761
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,510
had anything to do with taking 
the kids. 

762
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,170
And actually one of the one of 
the ones that's not listed there

763
00:38:00,180 --> 00:38:02,090
is deciding if they need to go 
to the doctor or not. 

764
00:38:02,140 --> 00:38:04,910
And in the early days, our kids 
were sick all the time. 

765
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,230
And I get stressed. 
I get really stressed about them

766
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:09,050
being sick. 
And I remember us having 

767
00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:11,130
conversations where I'm like, I 
need you to tell me if you think

768
00:38:11,140 --> 00:38:13,160
they need to go because I would 
just sit there and be like are 

769
00:38:13,170 --> 00:38:14,390
they sick enough to go to the 
doctors? 

770
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:15,160
I don't know. 
I don't know. 

771
00:38:15,170 --> 00:38:17,330
I don't know. 
And it's just like round and 

772
00:38:17,340 --> 00:38:20,510
round and round and, like, 
literally made me feel sick, 

773
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,100
Like heavy because I just, I had
to decide if I take my kid to 

774
00:38:24,110 --> 00:38:28,340
the doctor or not. 
And even that didn't sit in your

775
00:38:28,410 --> 00:38:30,030
head the same way. 
Like you would be like, oh, 

776
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,010
they're sick. 
And I hate that. 

777
00:38:31,020 --> 00:38:32,480
But that would kind of be the 
extent of it. 

778
00:38:32,490 --> 00:38:34,920
Yeah. 
So things like that, like 

779
00:38:35,010 --> 00:38:37,330
thinking, oh, they're sick, I 
should take him to the doctor, 

780
00:38:37,470 --> 00:38:39,530
but I can't take them to that 
doctor because that doctor's 

781
00:38:39,540 --> 00:38:42,960
closed or your call before 8:30 
to get them into the doctor 

782
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:44,540
there. 
And if that doctor doesn't have 

783
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:46,480
appointments, I'm going to have 
to either take them to emergency

784
00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:49,280
department, if I take him to the
emergency department, blah blah,

785
00:38:49,290 --> 00:38:53,230
that kind of thing. 
A perfect example of teamwork, 

786
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,170
right? 
Because again, women's brains 

787
00:38:55,180 --> 00:38:58,210
and men's brains are different, 
you know, and and I think for 

788
00:38:58,220 --> 00:39:02,240
me, I can compartmentalise 
things better than you. 

789
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,410
And so again, yeah, OK, I've got
my areas I need to work on. 

790
00:39:06,420 --> 00:39:09,890
Mental load is one of them. 
But at the same time, when 

791
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:12,810
you're in a space where you 
can't process your thoughts, you

792
00:39:12,820 --> 00:39:16,630
can't trust your thoughts or 
whatever else, I can be that 

793
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,430
more clarity to the situation 
because I can compartmentalise. 

794
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,190
Because I I think back in early 
days though too, I was a 

795
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,470
learning curve for me too, 
because I don't know what it is 

796
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,830
with us guys and going to the 
doctors. 

797
00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:30,810
And that's a whole other topic 
too. 

798
00:39:30,860 --> 00:39:33,140
But even with the kids, I think 
I was like, oh, no, they're 

799
00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:33,990
fine. 
They're fine. 

800
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,050
But that wasn't helpful for you 
to just say like, no, no, 

801
00:39:37,060 --> 00:39:38,230
they're fine. 
They're fine. 

802
00:39:38,330 --> 00:39:42,120
I had to say in a way that you 
would receive it and that would 

803
00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:44,760
actually calm your brain down. 
No, they're not fine. 

804
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:48,280
They are fine because last time 
the doctor said this, this and 

805
00:39:48,290 --> 00:39:49,540
this. 
We haven't seen those symptoms 

806
00:39:49,550 --> 00:39:51,050
yet. 
We haven't seen those symptoms 

807
00:39:51,060 --> 00:39:52,720
yet. 
So we don't need to do that yet.

808
00:39:52,730 --> 00:39:56,840
We will go do that when we get 
to this point or if they get to 

809
00:39:56,850 --> 00:40:00,480
this point sometimes as well. 
It was just a matter of I could 

810
00:40:00,490 --> 00:40:02,440
see where you were at. 
I'm like, Yep, you take them to 

811
00:40:02,450 --> 00:40:04,130
the doctor. 
It wasn't even for the kids 

812
00:40:04,140 --> 00:40:05,800
sake, it was for your sake, 
right. 

813
00:40:05,870 --> 00:40:07,920
That was another learning curve 
for us as well. 

814
00:40:07,930 --> 00:40:11,480
So to yeah, just so we don't 
come across like we're guy 

815
00:40:11,490 --> 00:40:12,940
bashing here. 
Because. 

816
00:40:13,130 --> 00:40:17,550
I don't like getting bashed. 
It's not that we're not doing 

817
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,320
that. 
We're just talking about this is

818
00:40:19,330 --> 00:40:22,890
an area genuinely, genuinely, 
generally. 

819
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:27,360
Generally. 
A guy struggle with go talk with

820
00:40:27,370 --> 00:40:29,730
other stuff too, so this is a 
way that we can complement. 

821
00:40:30,610 --> 00:40:34,000
The fourth thing that Chachi PT 
told me was that there might be 

822
00:40:34,010 --> 00:40:36,500
communication barriers that play
into it. 

823
00:40:36,770 --> 00:40:40,780
She thought Podcast on that my. 
Gosh, some men and women may not

824
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:43,460
effectively communicate about 
the division of labour and the 

825
00:40:43,470 --> 00:40:46,570
emotional toll of mental load, 
leading to misunderstandings or 

826
00:40:46,580 --> 00:40:48,940
assumptions about each other's 
roles and responsibilities. 

827
00:40:49,210 --> 00:40:51,550
I think that kind of plays into 
the previous one, they invisible

828
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,400
tasks. 
It'd be easy to look at someone 

829
00:40:54,450 --> 00:40:58,220
carrying mental load and think, 
you know, they're not doing 

830
00:40:58,230 --> 00:41:00,980
this, this and this, or they 
could do that easy because they 

831
00:41:00,990 --> 00:41:03,700
that's all they've got to do 
today and not think about the 

832
00:41:03,710 --> 00:41:06,520
invisible parts of it. 
And if you can't communicate as 

833
00:41:06,530 --> 00:41:08,120
the partner, that's balancing 
that. 

834
00:41:08,290 --> 00:41:09,720
Like I said, I didn't have a 
fight. 

835
00:41:09,730 --> 00:41:11,560
I didn't have terminology around
it. 

836
00:41:11,690 --> 00:41:14,940
It was very hard for me to say, 
yeah, but I get stressed about 

837
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:15,900
it. 
Like, what does that? 

838
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:17,560
That doesn't mean anything. 
It's like, OK, don't get 

839
00:41:17,570 --> 00:41:20,200
stressed about. 
Yeah, like I'll. 

840
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:21,480
OK, I'll get stressed about it 
then. 

841
00:41:21,490 --> 00:41:23,400
It doesn't. 
That doesn't communicate well. 

842
00:41:23,530 --> 00:41:25,960
So if you don't have the 
terminology around it, you don't

843
00:41:25,970 --> 00:41:29,500
have like an understanding of 
what's happening for you and you

844
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:32,300
can't communicate it, it's not 
going to. 

845
00:41:32,370 --> 00:41:34,980
It's going to be really hard to 
tackle that because they only 

846
00:41:34,990 --> 00:41:37,120
know what they know. 
It's same thing as we've spoken 

847
00:41:37,130 --> 00:41:39,180
about before. 
Until I can communicate what's 

848
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:42,600
going on for myself, it's kind 
of still my responsibility than 

849
00:41:42,610 --> 00:41:44,640
what I can communicate it. 
Then it becomes our 

850
00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:46,680
responsibility and our teamwork 
on it. 

851
00:41:46,750 --> 00:41:49,420
And then the 4th, the fifth one,
is cultural norms. 

852
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:52,280
So cultural norms and 
expectations around masculinity 

853
00:41:52,290 --> 00:41:54,640
may discourage men from 
acknowledging or addressing 

854
00:41:54,650 --> 00:41:57,930
issues related to emotional 
labour and mental load, viewing 

855
00:41:57,940 --> 00:42:00,060
them as signs of weakness or 
femininity. 

856
00:42:00,290 --> 00:42:04,010
I think that's probably why the 
people that ride in the most are

857
00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:07,750
guys, because the feedback that 
I've had is guys don't talk 

858
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,900
about this and I'm so passionate
about that too. 

859
00:42:10,910 --> 00:42:14,770
Again, this is a lot of my work 
in the fathering space is 

860
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,560
there's so many unknowns and you
don't know how to talk about it.

861
00:42:17,570 --> 00:42:20,250
You don't know who you can talk 
to about it cause what's the 

862
00:42:20,260 --> 00:42:24,570
safe space, right. 
And so absolutely I see that 

863
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,030
because that's a huge fear for a
lot of guys. 

864
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,730
Well, we might identify 
something, but doing anything 

865
00:42:29,740 --> 00:42:33,890
about it for a lot of guys is is
like pulling a tooth out, like 

866
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:36,770
they're just we just really 
struggle to do anything about 

867
00:42:36,780 --> 00:42:40,890
our situation. 
And I think I think the reason 

868
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:42,770
is, is because we don't know 
what's safe. 

869
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,940
I feel like for me especially, 
and a lot of guys I've spoken 

870
00:42:45,950 --> 00:42:49,700
to, we need to feel safe. 
We don't feel safe. 

871
00:42:49,770 --> 00:42:52,420
We'll avoid. 
We will get anxious. 

872
00:42:52,510 --> 00:42:55,700
When we get anxious, we'll shut 
down, we'll barriers up, all 

873
00:42:55,710 --> 00:42:57,860
that sort of stuff. 
Yeah, I think it's probably 

874
00:42:57,870 --> 00:43:00,530
people in general, but because 
I'm a guy, I don't identify them

875
00:43:00,540 --> 00:43:04,160
myself. 
But if I don't feel safe, I 

876
00:43:04,170 --> 00:43:07,050
react in many different ways, 
negative ways. 

877
00:43:07,090 --> 00:43:09,360
Safety is a really, really big. 
Thing. 

878
00:43:09,650 --> 00:43:12,120
And I don't think it's easy to 
identify that in a guy. 

879
00:43:12,130 --> 00:43:15,560
I don't think it's easy for me 
to look at you reacting out of a

880
00:43:15,570 --> 00:43:20,300
lack of security and see oh, 
he's he's not feeling secure. 

881
00:43:20,830 --> 00:43:24,240
What I see not not you 
specifically, just in general, 

882
00:43:24,250 --> 00:43:29,680
but also you as well, like what 
I see is is a defensiveness or a

883
00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:34,120
see a like an aggression or I 
see a this is not Blair, just to

884
00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:36,180
clarify. 
No, it's to a point. 

885
00:43:36,190 --> 00:43:40,100
It is, Yeah, to a. 
Point it is or like a an apathy 

886
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:41,580
apathy. 
Empathy. 

887
00:43:41,630 --> 00:43:44,960
No apathy, Like, couldn't care. 
Like brushing it off. 

888
00:43:44,970 --> 00:43:47,400
Like brushing it off. 
You're not interested in it. 

889
00:43:47,410 --> 00:43:51,460
It's not important distraction, 
like there's so many ways that 

890
00:43:51,470 --> 00:43:53,640
it would play out. 
It doesn't look like that scared

891
00:43:53,650 --> 00:43:55,750
little boy in the corner. 
Like it's not something that 

892
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,580
immediately evokes A ohi I'm 
feeling. 

893
00:43:58,590 --> 00:44:02,140
Really. 
I feel for you feeling insecure 

894
00:44:02,150 --> 00:44:04,310
in it because of how it plays 
out. 

895
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,810
So it's a it's a just this messy
little conversation or messy 

896
00:44:07,820 --> 00:44:11,930
little lack of conversation that
can happen if you're not feeling

897
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:15,490
secure and you're acting out of 
your insecurity. 

898
00:44:15,630 --> 00:44:18,770
I'm not seeing it as insecurity.
I'm seeing it as something more 

899
00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:21,730
aggressive, yeah, or something 
less interested. 

900
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,730
And so then my reaction is 
reacting to this anyway. 

901
00:44:24,740 --> 00:44:27,490
It's just a good cycle. 
I think this is actually 

902
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:29,610
something is going through my 
brain now and I think this is 

903
00:44:29,620 --> 00:44:33,230
really important to identify and
not not putting it all on this. 

904
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:34,710
I think there's other factors in
it too. 

905
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:37,630
But one of the reasons why I 
feel like I would put mental 

906
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:42,130
load on you is because you are 
safe, you know and I know again 

907
00:44:42,140 --> 00:44:44,690
I'm actually shopping thing but 
it's it's just an analogy, it's 

908
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:49,740
just an example. 
I don't deal with stress well, 

909
00:44:50,010 --> 00:44:52,380
right? 
I don't deal with looking like a

910
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:55,480
fool. 
Well, I don't deal with anxiety 

911
00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:58,850
well for a lot of guys and and 
probably girls too. 

912
00:44:58,860 --> 00:45:00,480
I'm not a female. 
I don't know. 

913
00:45:00,590 --> 00:45:04,660
But for a lot of guys, it's 
fight or flight. 

914
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:08,440
And the flight part is something
that we don't talk about a lot. 

915
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:11,700
We talk a lot about the fight 
part, but we don't talk about 

916
00:45:11,710 --> 00:45:14,620
the flight part a lot. 
And that comes out in the in the

917
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:18,520
barriers, in the defensiveness, 
in the avoidance, in all these 

918
00:45:18,530 --> 00:45:21,000
different areas. 
And I think it's really 

919
00:45:21,010 --> 00:45:23,960
important to understand because,
again, if a couple is going into

920
00:45:23,970 --> 00:45:29,120
this conversation as a female 
talking to a male, if you do not

921
00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:32,820
come at it in a safe way, 
there's gonna be fight or 

922
00:45:32,830 --> 00:45:35,100
flight. 
There's gonna be defensiveness 

923
00:45:35,110 --> 00:45:37,500
as the fight. 
There's going to be flight as in

924
00:45:37,510 --> 00:45:41,690
barriers go up and shutting down
and that's where again the 

925
00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:43,610
conversation is really 
important. 

926
00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:48,030
When the conversation stops it, 
it allows room for the barriers 

927
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,740
to go up. 
The if the conversation is done 

928
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:52,950
badly, the barriers going up 
anyway. 

929
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,650
If the conversation can be 
identified that needs to be had 

930
00:45:56,660 --> 00:46:00,450
by both parties and can done in 
a safe environment. 

931
00:46:00,460 --> 00:46:06,680
I really, I would not be the man
I am today if you were not safe.

932
00:46:06,830 --> 00:46:10,880
And I've said that before like 
the conversations that we've had

933
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:13,700
have have been as fruitful as 
they've been. 

934
00:46:13,710 --> 00:46:18,160
Our relationship is in is in the
places in now because you've 

935
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:20,940
allowed us to have a safe space.
Yeah. 

936
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:23,320
We would not be in the place we 
did if if this was not a safe 

937
00:46:23,330 --> 00:46:26,940
environment. 
And I think again, just through 

938
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:28,920
everything that we've been 
speaking about, it was another 

939
00:46:28,930 --> 00:46:30,130
light bulb moment that went on 
for me. 

940
00:46:30,140 --> 00:46:34,870
I'm like, Oh yeah, cause I I 
know that if I think back to a 

941
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:40,420
small scenario like going to the
shops in doing groceries, I want

942
00:46:40,430 --> 00:46:43,800
to do that. 
I want to be the. 

943
00:46:43,850 --> 00:46:46,080
I wanna be reliable. 
I wanna do this. 

944
00:46:46,090 --> 00:46:49,520
If I have a hint that I'm not 
and I'm gonna and I'm going to 

945
00:46:49,530 --> 00:46:53,120
let down you or I'm going to let
down someone else, I'm gonna 

946
00:46:53,130 --> 00:46:54,660
flight. 
I'm gonna shut down. 

947
00:46:54,670 --> 00:46:55,960
I can't do it. 
Amy, help me. 

948
00:46:55,970 --> 00:47:00,550
You know, I'm gonna get to that 
little boy phase of I need you 

949
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,290
to help me tell me what to do. 
Or I was like, no, you do it. 

950
00:47:03,340 --> 00:47:04,800
Hmm. 
Which I haven't done. 

951
00:47:04,810 --> 00:47:07,370
But like, that's easy for me to 
get to is I know you do it. 

952
00:47:07,420 --> 00:47:09,300
I'm shutting down. 
You can't do it. 

953
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:11,960
Yeah. 
Which is really interesting 

954
00:47:11,970 --> 00:47:15,290
because as you're saying that 
it, which I fully, fully 

955
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:19,290
appreciate and I think is 
totally accurate, how does that 

956
00:47:20,250 --> 00:47:23,490
play out when it's the woman 
then carrying the mental load 

957
00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:25,060
of? 
That that's what I'm saying. 

958
00:47:25,070 --> 00:47:26,860
It has to be that mutual thing 
Jermaine. 

959
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:29,820
Like it's not now it's your 
responsibility for me to deal 

960
00:47:29,830 --> 00:47:33,220
with my stuff. 
It's not that I, you know when 

961
00:47:33,230 --> 00:47:35,510
we when we go to the other. 
I was intentional about dealing 

962
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,600
with my staff right. 
I've always been intentional 

963
00:47:37,610 --> 00:47:40,220
about growing becoming a better 
man better dad all that's better

964
00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:42,940
husband, all that sort of stuff 
in that process. 

965
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:45,710
While I'm trying to do that and 
that's where I'm again I'm 

966
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:48,070
putting that shout out to the 
guys step up. 

967
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:51,850
This is your responsibility. 
You know you need to own this. 

968
00:47:51,860 --> 00:47:54,880
You need to go on that journey 
of growing and becoming better. 

969
00:47:54,890 --> 00:47:58,280
You need to do that. 
You know the the benefit the 

970
00:47:58,290 --> 00:48:02,140
bonus that I have is that I've 
got you you know, I mean and now

971
00:48:02,150 --> 00:48:06,320
my growth is so much greater 
because I've got you. 

972
00:48:06,330 --> 00:48:09,860
It's not reliant on you. 
It's the fact that it's better 

973
00:48:09,870 --> 00:48:15,500
because of you and it's so much 
more freeing rewarding and I I 

974
00:48:15,570 --> 00:48:18,920
have no concerns about our 
relationship because I feel so 

975
00:48:18,930 --> 00:48:21,640
safe and confident in it because
of the way that we've 

976
00:48:21,650 --> 00:48:25,070
established that safety for each
other and and we've allowed that

977
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,580
growth for each other. 
You don't put your stuff on me. 

978
00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:32,180
I don't put myself on you, but I
own your stuff and you own my 

979
00:48:32,190 --> 00:48:34,960
stuff because we're A-Team. 
Yeah, that's the big difference.

980
00:48:34,970 --> 00:48:37,370
It's not me saying like, I know.
I mean, you need to carry me and

981
00:48:37,380 --> 00:48:38,640
help me through all my things, 
blah, blah. 

982
00:48:38,650 --> 00:48:42,320
No, no, I'm working on my stuff.
I need to own that and I will 

983
00:48:42,330 --> 00:48:46,300
own that while I'm doing that. 
We are a team and you are 

984
00:48:46,310 --> 00:48:50,130
bringing so much more to my 
growth than if I was doing it on

985
00:48:50,140 --> 00:48:52,890
my own. 
Yeah, I think it's really 

986
00:48:52,900 --> 00:48:56,840
important to highlight that we 
had this conversation the first 

987
00:48:56,850 --> 00:49:01,270
time, let's say two years ago 
and it started with the grocery 

988
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,070
talk. 
Then that kind of expanded a 

989
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,230
little bit. 
Even tonight, when I was going 

990
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:07,310
through this list, I was like, 
there are still lots of things 

991
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,270
that I carry the mental load for
and I will. 

992
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,040
And I don't think, I don't think
the point of this is the woman 

993
00:49:13,050 --> 00:49:16,340
shouldn't carry the mental load.
I think the point of it is have 

994
00:49:16,350 --> 00:49:20,760
the conversation about about 
that mental load because if if 

995
00:49:20,770 --> 00:49:25,120
it's unsaid, that's when the 
mismatch expectations and the 

996
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:27,740
hurt can come in and the 
imbalance. 

997
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:31,030
But there's still things on this
list that I went through that I 

998
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:32,580
was like, oh, yeah, that's I do 
that. 

999
00:49:32,650 --> 00:49:34,020
Blair hasn't done that. 
I do that. 

1000
00:49:34,030 --> 00:49:35,540
But not in like a Blair doesn't 
do it. 

1001
00:49:35,550 --> 00:49:37,420
It's just that's how we 
naturally play out. 

1002
00:49:37,530 --> 00:49:41,120
So one really important thing 
sort of talking about that being

1003
00:49:41,130 --> 00:49:43,640
a secure, safe place. 
If you come into this 

1004
00:49:43,650 --> 00:49:46,090
conversation, if you're like, 
yeah, yeah, this mental alert. 

1005
00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:47,460
I need to talk to my partner 
about it. 

1006
00:49:47,530 --> 00:49:49,870
And you come in and say this, 
this, this, this, this, this, 

1007
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,800
this, this, this. 
You don't do that. 

1008
00:49:51,850 --> 00:49:53,270
I do that. 
I do all of this. 

1009
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,850
You don't do this. 
There's like 25 things. 

1010
00:49:56,140 --> 00:49:58,750
These are the things straight 
off the bat, we need to work on 

1011
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,070
these. 
It's not going to be fruitful. 

1012
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,120
Hmm. 
You're safe. 

1013
00:50:03,130 --> 00:50:05,310
You can have a general talk. 
Like I think we did have a a 

1014
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:06,690
general talk when we first 
brought up. 

1015
00:50:06,700 --> 00:50:08,730
It wasn't just groceries. 
That's the first thing. 

1016
00:50:08,740 --> 00:50:10,330
I was like, this is really 
interesting. 

1017
00:50:10,340 --> 00:50:11,900
And then we talked about what 
that might look like. 

1018
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:14,650
Generally. 
I didn't sit there and say I 

1019
00:50:14,660 --> 00:50:16,430
didn't even know what they were 
for one thing. 

1020
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,290
But I also didn't sit there 
hopefully and say it's this, 

1021
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,270
it's this, it's also this is, 
this is, this is, this is, this 

1022
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,880
is, this is this. 
And it's like pile it on you 

1023
00:50:25,890 --> 00:50:28,550
because how immobilising would 
that be? 

1024
00:50:28,610 --> 00:50:32,160
The way that you did it was you 
literally show me that real 

1025
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:35,280
domain and you said hey what do 
you think about this and that's 

1026
00:50:35,290 --> 00:50:37,880
what you guys can do You can you
can go through this episode 

1027
00:50:37,890 --> 00:50:40,950
together and just ask a question
what do you think about that 

1028
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,220
like do you think this is 
something that you know how do 

1029
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:47,580
we go with this and and and for 
the female you can share like oh

1030
00:50:47,590 --> 00:50:50,470
actually resonate with this for 
a little bit and and with the 

1031
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,460
guy you could be like yeah you 
know again really reflects 

1032
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:58,220
really have a look at yourself 
in a non critical judgmental 

1033
00:50:58,230 --> 00:51:00,640
way. 
It's seriously just you know 

1034
00:51:00,650 --> 00:51:04,570
let's let's grow together 
mentality but and just have that

1035
00:51:04,580 --> 00:51:07,470
conversation in there like what 
are your thoughts on this topic 

1036
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,270
start there. 
Yeah. 

1037
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,710
And yeah, and like, even use us 
as an excuse and be like, I 

1038
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:14,940
heard this podcast and I was 
like, Oh my goodness, that's 

1039
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:17,530
what I wrestle with. 
So this is, this is, this is 

1040
00:51:17,620 --> 00:51:19,910
concept that I've now learned 
about mental load. 

1041
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,250
And that's why I'm always 
stressed. 

1042
00:51:21,260 --> 00:51:24,350
And yeah, that I think about 
like, you don't see this, but 

1043
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,600
this is what I'm navigating. 
And so like you can use this as 

1044
00:51:27,610 --> 00:51:30,310
an excuse if you need to like to
start that conversation. 

1045
00:51:30,380 --> 00:51:33,510
One big thing was you helped me 
understand what's going on in 

1046
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,210
your brain. 
Yeah, you know, I mean, it 

1047
00:51:35,220 --> 00:51:37,360
wasn't even just a matter of 
like, I'm putting all this 

1048
00:51:37,370 --> 00:51:39,350
mental load on you. 
You actually came from the 

1049
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,900
perspective of helping me 
understand what's going on in 

1050
00:51:41,910 --> 00:51:43,180
your mind. 
Yeah. 

1051
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:45,300
So cause you owned it a little 
bit too. 

1052
00:51:45,310 --> 00:51:47,890
You owned it in terms of you 
never communicated that with me 

1053
00:51:47,900 --> 00:51:50,220
that that was happening because 
you didn't know, right. 

1054
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:54,230
Like you, you, but you could 
have known and bottled. 

1055
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:56,300
Stuff communicates. 
We're not communicated. 

1056
00:51:56,340 --> 00:51:59,240
So that's the other part too. 
It's not just a conversation 

1057
00:51:59,250 --> 00:52:00,760
about the guys doing all these 
things wrong. 

1058
00:52:00,770 --> 00:52:03,700
And in some circumstances, the 
girls doing the same thing. 

1059
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,320
It's not about that. 
It's about helping them 

1060
00:52:06,330 --> 00:52:08,400
understand what's going 
internally for you. 

1061
00:52:08,450 --> 00:52:10,600
Yeah, yeah. 
So I guess like similar 

1062
00:52:10,610 --> 00:52:12,800
challenge that you just put out 
to the guys, I would put the 

1063
00:52:12,810 --> 00:52:16,630
challenge out to the women. 
You, you might be listening to 

1064
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,660
this and feeling frustrated and 
exhausted because you're like, 

1065
00:52:20,670 --> 00:52:22,720
yeah, he doesn't do these 
things, he doesn't see it, he 

1066
00:52:22,730 --> 00:52:24,520
doesn't get it, blah blah blah, 
whatever it might be. 

1067
00:52:25,380 --> 00:52:29,870
I would challenge you to be like
genuinely have I spoken to him 

1068
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,850
about it? 
Have I genuinely made it clear 

1069
00:52:31,860 --> 00:52:34,010
to him? 
Sometimes the answer to that is 

1070
00:52:34,020 --> 00:52:36,540
going to be yes. 
You have tried to make it clear 

1071
00:52:36,550 --> 00:52:39,430
and he hasn't picked it up and 
that is valid. 

1072
00:52:39,660 --> 00:52:43,970
So not trying to excuse it, not 
saying that it's your problem, 

1073
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,010
that he's not helping or aware 
of it, or he's being critical of

1074
00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:49,790
you even though he doesn't 
understand it, but just do that,

1075
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,610
that second of a check in with 
yourself and and think, have I 

1076
00:52:53,620 --> 00:52:55,380
communicated this clearly with 
him? 

1077
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:59,910
If I haven't, am I willing to? 
If you are not willing to 

1078
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:02,160
communicate it with him, if you 
aren't willing to have that 

1079
00:53:02,170 --> 00:53:06,560
awkward conversation, you need 
to to think well, what is that 

1080
00:53:06,570 --> 00:53:09,280
gonna result in? 
Where do I want to be in 5-10 

1081
00:53:09,290 --> 00:53:12,460
years time? 
Am I gonna be happy if what 

1082
00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:13,860
we're. 
If the patterns were in right 

1083
00:53:13,870 --> 00:53:15,960
now are just going to be 
reinforced and reinforced 

1084
00:53:15,970 --> 00:53:18,310
because I just don't want to 
have that conversation or 

1085
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,500
because it's just easier for me 
to do these things. 

1086
00:53:20,510 --> 00:53:22,830
That's a huge thing actually 
with mental load. 

1087
00:53:22,910 --> 00:53:26,580
One of the main reasons is when 
the partner just doesn't do the 

1088
00:53:26,590 --> 00:53:30,970
thing right and there has to be 
a learning curve. 

1089
00:53:30,980 --> 00:53:33,340
There has to be a an awkward 
time. 

1090
00:53:33,350 --> 00:53:35,970
If you're wanting to hand over 
some of these tasks, some of 

1091
00:53:35,980 --> 00:53:39,460
this mental load, you you have 
to be aware that there's gonna 

1092
00:53:39,470 --> 00:53:41,910
be a time where things might get
missed. 

1093
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,360
Things might be sloppy, things 
might not be done the way that 

1094
00:53:44,370 --> 00:53:46,210
you want it to be done. 
But just because it's not done 

1095
00:53:46,220 --> 00:53:48,100
the way that you would do it or 
the way you want it done, 

1096
00:53:48,110 --> 00:53:50,570
doesn't mean it's not a 
progress. 

1097
00:53:50,900 --> 00:53:54,550
And so just being aware of how 
they communicated it, Where do I

1098
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,690
wanna go? 
Am I satisfied to stay this way?

1099
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:58,440
And if I am, I need to kind of 
own that. 

1100
00:53:58,540 --> 00:54:01,010
Cause I'm not, I'm choosing not 
to communicate it properly. 

1101
00:54:01,060 --> 00:54:03,700
If I'm not satisfied to stay 
this way, am I willing to go 

1102
00:54:03,710 --> 00:54:07,090
through the process of it being 
an awkward transition time, 

1103
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,590
having to kind of be consistent 
with communicating through it 

1104
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:15,650
and be willing to be OK with 
things being done outside of 

1105
00:54:15,660 --> 00:54:16,750
your control, outside of the 
way? 

1106
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,470
Because that's a huge thing for 
me. 

1107
00:54:19,180 --> 00:54:22,050
It's really hard to watch 
someone do something in a way 

1108
00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:26,240
that I don't think is the right 
way, but you're not going to get

1109
00:54:26,250 --> 00:54:29,180
anywhere if you if you keep 
trying to do it all. 

1110
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,520
This is a good one. 
I I really enjoyed this because 

1111
00:54:32,530 --> 00:54:35,790
again, it's something I'm still 
working on and I just, yeah, 

1112
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,800
again, the amount of 
conversations I have with guys 

1113
00:54:37,810 --> 00:54:40,170
where the light bulb goes off. 
Hmm. 

1114
00:54:40,210 --> 00:54:43,810
Yeah, it's an annoying thing to 
struggle with, but it's a great 

1115
00:54:43,820 --> 00:54:46,390
thing to identify and it's an 
awesome thing to work on 

1116
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,570
together, yeah. 
Yeah, I think we could talk 

1117
00:54:48,580 --> 00:54:51,590
about it for hours, but we're 
going to leave it there. 

1118
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,550
Yeah, we had a little more 
topics, more examples and 

1119
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,250
scenarios, more than just the 
groceries. 

1120
00:54:56,260 --> 00:54:57,430
But. 
We just can't get there. 

1121
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,220
We can have that conversation by
ourselves. 

1122
00:54:59,230 --> 00:55:02,610
We don't need. 
That we can Absolutely. 

1123
00:55:02,620 --> 00:55:03,480
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1124
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:04,430
Cool. 
Can I have? 

1125
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,900
Yeah. 
Alright, so the can you please 

1126
00:55:08,910 --> 00:55:11,980
give us feedback on our outros? 
I really want bad feedback on 

1127
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:14,640
our trees or ideas. 
Hmm. 

1128
00:55:14,650 --> 00:55:17,260
So maybe you guys can write in 
the Natural for us as well. 

1129
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:21,480
That'll be fantastic. 
This week's one done by Chat 

1130
00:55:21,490 --> 00:55:25,780
TPT, and that's the rap on 
today's high octane conversation

1131
00:55:25,790 --> 00:55:28,920
at Honey. 
We need to chat, buckle up and 

1132
00:55:28,930 --> 00:55:31,900
hold tight because as long as 
there's another topic on the 

1133
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:35,300
horizon, how thrilling ride 
through the twists and turns of 

1134
00:55:35,310 --> 00:55:37,740
relationships isn't slowing 
down. 

1135
00:55:38,090 --> 00:55:40,400
Gear up for more action next 
week. 

1136
00:55:40,530 --> 00:55:43,780
Until then, keep the 
conversations fiery and the 

1137
00:55:43,790 --> 00:55:49,950
Connections Ohio Ectric. 
Gosh, I see. 

1138
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,280
Bye. 
Thanks for the chat.