Hi, and welcome to the Stop to Think podcast with me, Pete
Cohen and my coach, and my great friend and mentor, Doctor Ray
Sylvester. Now, if you've been following
this series, you'll know that after sharing a number of brand
new conversations that we've had in 2026, we're now taking you
back to a series of conversations Ray and I recorded
three years ago in 2023. And at that time, I had no idea
that these discussions would become the foundation of what
Stop to Think is today. Now, looking back, it's
fascinating to hear ideas that were only just beginning to
emerge. Many of the principles we now
teach and live by were born in these conversations.
And in our last episode, we explored the difference between
our front stage and our backstage.
We asked the question, who are you when nobody's watching?
Now, in this episode, we take the conversation one step
further. It's it's one thing to
understand your backstage, what goes on behind the scenes.
It's another to intentionally design it.
Because look, every day, whether we realize it or not, we're
creating the environment that shapes our thoughts, our habits,
our emotions, and ultimately, our lives.
The spaces we live in, the routines we follow, the people
we surround ourselves with, and even the conversations we have
with ourselves all become part of our backstage.
As you listen today, I encourage you to reflect on three
questions. What does my backstage currently
look like? Is it helping me become the
person I want to be? And if you could redesign it,
where would you begin? This isn't simply a conversation
about creating about home or better habits.
It's deeper than that. It's about intentionally
creating the conditions that allow you to thrive.
Because when you invest in the person you are when no one else
is watching, everything else begins to change.
So thank you for joining us on this journey back in time.
This is episode 15 of the Stop to Think podcast called
Designing Your Backstage. I'll see you with Doctor Ray
after. This the greater things that are
stuck in somebody We're live.
So good morning to you Ray. Thank you so much for being with
me once again today. Good morning, Peter.
How are you? Peter Well, that's not, that's
not something I hear that often, but I suppose that is my name.
So that's what my mum calls me. And and a few.
Other people but. That is my name, you know, my
passport, my birth. Certificate it says Peter.
What about yours? Does it say Ray or Raymond or
Raymond though? I walked straight into that,
didn't I? Yeah, I'm Raymond.
Raymond Well, I'll just. Call you Ray, Doctor Ray, and I
really wanted to talk to you, Ray.
In the last podcast, we talked about backstage front stage and
it was a beautiful podcast. If you guys get a chance to
listen to that prior to this, please do.
Ray, you said you. Really enjoyed that podcast and
I listened to it back myself. I listened to it.
While I was driving to London. So the first thing, just to put
my academic hat on, most of my inspiration comes from a guy
called Irving Goffman who wrote a book and the focus of his book
was on what he called the dramatological narrative of
life. So he basically says, Pete,
right now you and I are performing and those people
listening, maybe listening privately could be backstage or
they could be on a front. And what I like about fronts,
and I'll extend it a little bit more, is that we all perform in
the front stage. I call it front stage.
He originally called it fronts. My connections in music
industry. I like front stage backstage
because I've seen it practically when people are prepping to go
on stage, what people do behind stage before they go on stage.
But there are there are three key things he talks about in
this book, presentations, our everyday life.
If anyone wants to look the book up, it's still available and it
was published in the late 50s. So it shows you the how relevant
some things are. But he talks about setting and
he talks about the furniture or the setting.
So basically we perform in particular settings.
And this is really interesting, Pete, because I'd like you to
share this. Just work this through then over
our 2% today. What settings have you set up
for yourself when you wake up in the morning?
Well, you know, the thing about what's going on behind the
scenes, I just, it's one of the most fascinating conversations
you can ever have. And the experience that you and
I have had working together has made me even more aware of my
own narrative. Because to me, that's what backs
part of backstage is it's what you're saying to yourself.
And as someone who's worked in the world of coaching and
working with world class athletes like, you know, Ronnie
O'Sullivan, seven time snooker world champion, has been staying
with me. He's just gone off her to to
China. When you work with someone, when
they're performing, you've got to know what's going on
backstage. You got to know.
Because if if you don't know, I think that affects everything.
It affects performance. So this doesn't answer your
question directly, but I think it's one of the most fascinating
things we will ever do. Become aware of what's going on
backstage and how that's affecting up front stage, how
that affects how we move through the world.
For me, right when I wake up every day, I've become pretty
aware of my narrative quite quickly.
What I'm saying to myself, what's going on behind the
scenes. And I know that if I don't start
my day off with intention, specific intention, that and put
myself in a place where I'm ready for anything or ready for
what's coming after. I've been very intentional about
a few things, which I tend to do every day, which is a little bit
of learning, definitely exercising, cold shower, a bit
of meditation. And then I'm just, I feel that
my backstage is more in alignment with my purpose of
what I want to do, which is serve.
What about you? So the the reason I asked the
question is that Doffman first observed that our front is
shaped with things like setting our appearance and our manner.
And we spoke in our last podcast about creating a balance between
that front stage and the backstage.
And what you've just done there by default is that you've
deliberately, intentionally created settings in your
backstage. So what I wanted to get across
today to people is that settings aren't just for the performance
outward in a social context, but backstage when you are what you
are, when no one's looking at you, if you're intentional, when
no one's looking at you. So for you to do Wim Hof and the
cold showers and other processes, you've got a, a gym
outside in a garden or a yard for American listeners.
That's intentional. And what I think, Pete, we
should focus on as we, we look at this 2% is that many people
are spending their time working in settings that they don't
control. And they come and they try to
appear like they fit in and they try to put a manner on and a
personality on that is one that's yearning to be accepted.
And when the last podcast we talked about how exhausting that
is, is if you're backstage is just built to prepare for that
performance all the time. So it's literally like a musical
performance. You're backstage, you've got
your costume on, you've done your your sound check, your
line, check and boom, you're out there and you're doing the
lights are on. And what I'm saying in life, if
you do that, it's exhausting. There is also a performance to
self. So when you do Wim Hof in a cold
shout, I'm pretty sure that the region, the area you live in,
you're not doing that as a a David Blaine stunt in a
translucent box, suspending it on a crate so everyone can see
it. You're making an investment in
you when no one is seeing that. So I suppose my question today,
Pete, because you've answered it by default, which is awesome, is
that you have on some level become very intentional about
creating settings and environments and making sure
that you equip yourself so you can appear and have the right
manner. And as we talk about this, we've
recently had the last month or so talked about how difficult it
has been as you've adjusted coming back to your home after
Hannah has passed. And we've talked to lots of
about strategy. One of them I suggest to you
was, you know, make the space your own.
And that's not, it's not disenfranchising anything of the
wonderful memory you've had with Hannah.
But now you've got to create a setting and you need to have an
appearance in that setting that's comfortable.
And it was clear that you were uncomfortable initially.
But you said to me yesterday, you know, I'm making great
strides, right? I'm really the home feels more
like me. I've done some stuff and then
you sent me a link of a, a crane operation, which I thought
fantastic. I wondered if you could just
share. So it's helpful to people to go,
wow, he's actually creating the right setting for him personally
to edify him, to give him the balance when no one's looking.
What have you been doing? Our first thing is what we would
love you to do is become aware of your own backstage narrative,
not to judge, not blame, not shame, not criticize, just
become aware. It is what it is.
How's that working out for you? And you know what you just said
there about where I am right now and creating the space.
I think it was Serena Williams. I heard her say discipline
equals freedom. And I, I, I never used to like
that word discipline because it remind me of being at school.
But I know myself well enough that if I don't intentionally
put myself into a space where I'm focused, I can just be all
over the place. And what's really interesting is
that, you know, with my wife passing away, that created a
space that I obviously didn't want that to happen.
I really, of course, I didn't want it to happen.
But it's it's almost made me appreciate even more the
importance of being my own best friend.
As we've spoken about, you know, you, you've mentioned on an
Instagram post that you saw when I'm talking about us being at
war with ourselves, and I agree with you.
I, I used to say that a lot. And I think it's, it's great to
have a narrative where you become your own best friend.
You become curious. And I do feel so much better
because right now time is a definitely is a great healer,
but I am a product of my environment.
This environment that I live in was a house that my wife and I
moved in together. I let her take care of a lot of
the environment because I knew how important it was to her.
And now I've started to change it around and it feels like this
is my house, that this is where I live.
This is where I, I, it's even hard to be even don't even know
what the word is, but I can come back to that.
And you asked me about the table.
I don't hear if anyone's ever bought anything and done it
impulsively, right? What's the most impulsive thing
you've ever bought? Right?
For me, it was a table I bought in Guilin in China in 1999.
I lived on a boat at the time. If it had been put on the boat,
the boat would have sunk. So it was actually in Sally
Gunnell, former Olympic champion.
World record holder. Within her barn for 20 years and
I finally got it to my house because she moved out.
My wife didn't like it and the house because it's so big.
We had to get a circus removal company to move.
It in we then. Moved into a new house and had
to keep outside and we've had some real interesting stories to
tell of having to move it around outside.
But now I finally have got it moved into the house, it was
very difficult to get it. In we had to get a crane.
And but wow, does it feel amazing, like this is my space.
And you know, as much as that space is important is only
because it nourishes my internal space.
So I feel like I'm at home. And I wonder, you know what,
what your thoughts on that, Ray? In fact, what's the most
impulsive? Thing you've ever.
Bought and what's your take on managing your backstage and
having the environment that supports that?
So the narrative we're talking about here is about
intentionality. So intentionally setting out to
create a setting that no one sees, but is about, as you
talked about discipline and, and, and if you look at the root
word of discipline is a Latin word dupulous, and it means
student. And if you're involved in being
disciplined outwardly so people can see it, you're basically a
student to the setting. You're creating an appearance
for the environment of others and you're creating a manner for
other people. What we're talking about here is
what you do internally. So, you know, the spontaneous
consumption of a, a large table or something.
If it's turned out to be the place that you've written all
your best selling books on or whatever, then you can see that
it can link directly to that setting.
But actually what I saw you do when you sent me those those
pictures is you were creating a setting at home that that is
part of your history. It's part of your relationship
with your coach, it's part of your relationship with Hannah.
And you wanted to give it, you wanted to honour it in a space
not for anyone else, but because it was for you.
So that's part of your internal settings.
So lots of things have symbolic articulation.
That table in of itself, it's weight, it's size isn't really
why it's in your home. P It's in your home because it
represents something about you and your history.
And that's so important because what you're sharing with me is
it's made you feel comfortable. Now here's the beautiful thing
is that table has got and 99.9% of people could come in your
home and say, don't like that table.
It doesn't matter because it's the what we're talking about
here is your internal backstage setting, creating your own
environment that works for you. That's different from the front
stage setting, which is deliberately designed to be
socially orientated. And what we're talking about is
a balance between the two and an internal setting.
So you know, you what you talked on tables.
What came straight to mind, so I have to be authentic is nearly
eight years ago coming to America.
I thought, right, I'm going to buy a desk.
We had an office space and I buy all this nice furniture and I
was writing up research thesis at the time.
I said, yeah, I'll get this table, It'll be wonderful.
Pete, do you know I didn't spend any time around that table?
The setting for me to find the rhythm was a round kitchen table
in an eating area. In fact, when you've come over,
we've sat around a table, but it's not that table.
We were given a table benevolently by some wonderful
people. We we got to know and I sat
around that not round the flash office table and what I've
worked out is sometimes, and some of you may smile, we create
these settings for that. Now I also grew up in an era,
and you may not be familiar with this, some listeners may, but I
grew up in a house where we had the best room and the best
cutlery and the blessed glassware.
This is interesting. You have a home and your setting
is to build something up where you live.
But then you have a best room you don't use and guess what
that's for? It's for the front stage when
you have guests coming round. Yeah.
And I never understood that. I never understood it.
Why have we got why have we got this wonderful weird, this
beautiful rooms? Why don't we ever hardly use it?
Because it. Was it's, it's like people that
put covers over their best furniture and then they would
actually even take the cover off.
You know, this, this whole experience of being a human
being is something that you and I are very intentionally looking
at and sharing our journeys with other people.
And you know, it's that encouraging of you wherever you
are in the world to come on that journey with us.
It's not always the easiest of journeys, but I think it's the
most beautiful because what we all then have the opportunity is
to feel more comfortable at home.
And I'm never and I, and I never forget saying this to my coach
Raphael when he was alive, I said to him once I can't wait to
go home and he goes, where's home?
And then I told him, but I said, but you know where that is,
You've been there. He goes, no, that's where you
live. That's not your home.
Your home is within you. You're always at home and
learning to feel at home wherever you are in the world,
whatever is around you. I suppose is, is that not maybe
one of the greatest things I will ever do is learning to be
at peace with myself, to love myself, to accept myself.
And my environment most definitely supports that.
You know, my environment in which I live, but also the
people I spend my time with. So, you know, my life has hugely
evolved because of the quality of the people I put in my
environment that actually support my backstage.
You support my backstage. I support your backstage.
I don't know all that goes on behind your backstage, but I
know a fair bit from just talking to you.
And I know the impact that your faith has on how you manage, you
know, that relationship with yourself.
And I'm curious, I'm curious in terms of the relationships we
have with ourselves, why is that so fraught?
Why is that so challenged? I know we've discussed this
before, but I'd just be curious as to, you know, what's on your
heart around what I'm saying. Well, I I do believe, as I said,
that I love Goffman. And before that, William
Shakespeare talks about the world's a stage and we all have
roles, we have entrances and we have XS.
And that's true in terms very acutely true when we think about
our social self. But I think what I've come to
think about and and really reflect on is that you are what
you are when no one's looking. And for you, I'd be mindful that
going back to your home. There's not anyone looking, but
you spend a lot of your time in public and social environments.
You ran a an event last weekend. So for me, it's been very much
and we've not explicitly said this.
I've just tried to encourage you this ways to make the home and
yourself comfortable with that and the word discipline.
As I said, you can break it down, disciple and and disciple,
what are we a disciple to? And obviously many people think
about that in a religious context, Jesus and his
disciples, but we are basically end up becoming disciples to the
world at the front stage. We are just trying to be
accepted. We're the student and we're
dealing with the master. The master is the front stage in
the audience and everyone else. And that's exhausting playing to
that. But what about being student to
yourself? You are serving self and that's
the backstage. What's right for Pete Cohen,
What's right for race or Vesta, what's right for other people?
And then what you should do is createspace.
Now for all of us, journal keeping is another intentional
environment where you create a setting to sit, to reflect, to
write, meditation, prayer, I've just mentioned exercise, you
know, preparation of food. All of these things are things
that I know Pete, you're incredibly passionate about.
But what I'm suggesting, we frame it for people to stop,
there must be an investment in their setting.
So creating environments and routines that work, there must
be something in their appearance.
Are they ready for whatever they're supposed to be doing?
So if you're supposed to go for a walk and Are you ready to do
that? And then manner, are they
motivated? Are they ready to do what they
need to do? And if someone's doing that,
guess what they're doing? They're creating a balance
between their backstage and their front stage and they're
not spending their backstage preparing for their front stage.
We are more than just our social settings.
We we, we need to love others as we love ourselves is a very,
very well known biblical term. But that has some massive truth
in it because if you inversely flip that you can't love anyone
else more than you love yourself.
So, you know, committed to having to do that.
There's a there's a film with Will Ferrell, I just can't
remember the name of it, where he hears a narrative in his head
and it's Emma Thompson who's telling the story of of him.
It didn't do particularly well, but it was a beautiful film
because definitely made me think even more about my my narrative.
And, you know, for years I didn't even know I had one.
And then when I did, I just thought, well, that's just me.
You know, to be able to stop, which is a key part of what we
do and what we're encouraging you to do, to stop, step back
and observe. And you know then?
You know the the. Thing that separates us from
pretty much everything else is OK, well, we have a choice here.
What's the choice we're going to make?
And I think what you do so well. Is again.
Shine that light on look, you can exercise and meditate and do
all of these things because it's a tick box exercise because you
think you should as opposed to no, I'm doing this because I
want to manage myself better. I want to my backstage to be
better because I know my I know ultimately my backstage of
friend effects my front stage. And you know, this morning I did
a coaching session with a very well known.
Artist who's in a band, young guy, world famous, and we were
talking about this backstage front stage, and obviously he
could relate to that because he's an artist.
He performs on stage and has done to thousands of people and
he knows he's performing and he knows that what goes on behind
here effects what goes on out there.
And I suppose what we're also asking you to do is you might
not be an artist like in a band, or you might not be a
professional athlete, but we're all going out every day and
we're performing. And we have spoken about this
before. But hopefully when you hear some
of these messages, or maybe this is the first podcast that you're
listening to, what Ray and I talk about, and Ray does this a
lot. And his work is about knowing
who you are at your core and knowing what your, your true
value is. What is it that you can bring?
What is it you do bring to the world?
What do you want to bring more to the world?
And we have to stop. And I, I have to connect to that
every day, Ray, I, I would say to someone else today, I, every
day I have to connect to that because if I don't, I know I can
give in to temptation. I know I can get distracted.
What would you like our listeners to to go away and do?
I think really it is making an investment in the same way as
you do for performing to go to work, to interact.
So your your personal life experiences with others.
You need to balance that with a personal and intentional life
with self. So I'll say that once more.
What you need to do is have a balance so that you are not
spending your life in a personal pursuit of experiences with
others, but you balance that with an investment in time in
yourself. And if you get that balance, it
creates equilibrium, homeostasis, whatever you want
to call it. It really does provide fruits.
But then you have to be a student and a servant to self
and what's best for self? I, I loved what you said there.
I didn't know that word. Discipline.
I, I, I, I disciple. I knew that.
But as a, as a, as a, as a student, you know, to study
yourself. I think it's just what I would
encourage everyone to do and enjoy it, enjoy that exploration
because it's very easy to go, Oh, this is terrible.
It is what it is, right? But we're all in a place where
we can do something with where we are.
We love spending these times Pete, and we've said we're just
having conversation with two friends across the pond and
anyone that wants to join in, anyone that enjoys the
conversation, then please just connect with us and we enjoy it.
Thank you. My pleasure.
Have a great day guys. We'll see you soon.
And that brings us to the end of today's episode.
Thank you for listening. We hope this conversation has
given you something to think about, reflect on, and perhaps
even act on. Remember, the real work happens
away from the spotlight, in those quiet moments when you
choose who you are becoming. If this episode has resonated
with you, then take a moment to share it with someone who might
benefit from it. And always, we'd love to hear
your thoughts. Until next time, keep stopping,
keep thinking, and keep designing a life that truly
works for you. Thanks for listening.