1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,840 Welcome to the Stop to Think podcast. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,280 Today's episode is called Becoming by Overcoming. 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,920 If this is your first episode that you've listened to, then I 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,360 would encourage you to go back to the beginning and join us on 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,320 this journey. Because what you're about to 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,040 hear isn't a series of interviews or conversations with 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,640 neat conclusions. It's a real time exploration 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,280 between two friends, recorded over many months as we ask some 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,680 of life's biggest questions. Questions like who are we 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,120 really? What shapes us and can we become 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,800 more than our circumstances? And perhaps the most important 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,760 question of all, what kind of life do we really want to lead? 13 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,840 This conversation was recorded in January 2024, around 8 months 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,360 after my wife had passed away. I'd recently been travelling 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,720 with work from Hong Kong and Macau to spending time in Uganda 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,840 with more than 101 orphaned children. 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,920 The contrast couldn't have been greater, yet it reinforced 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,200 something that Ray and I have been discovering together from 19 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,560 the very beginning. Where you are is not who you 20 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,280 are, and in this episode we explore a metaphor that has 21 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:27,080 stayed with me ever since, that perhaps we're all a little bit 22 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,160 like trees. Every tree bears fruit. 23 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,000 The question isn't whether we produce fruit. 24 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:39,000 The question is, what fruit are we choosing to grow, and who 25 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,640 will benefit from it? Because fruit isn't produced for 26 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,960 the tree itself. It's produced to nourish 27 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,720 something or someone else. And perhaps that's true of our 28 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,680 lives too. But here's something else that 29 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,960 I've really learned to appreciate. 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,400 When you look at a tree, you can only ever see part of the story. 31 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,800 You see the branches, you see the leaves, you might even 32 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,680 admire the fruit. But what you don't see is what's 33 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,800 happening beneath the surface. The roots, the quiet growth, the 34 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,840 unseen work taking place in the darkness. 35 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,880 Looking back now, I can see that some of my greatest growth 36 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,320 wasn't happening when life felt easy. 37 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,760 It was happening during the darkest moments of my life. 38 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,440 Growth that I couldn't see at the time, growth that only 39 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,200 became visible later. And maybe that's true for you, 40 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,920 too. One of the greatest lessons Stop 41 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:39,600 to Think has taught me is that transformation doesn't begin 42 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,600 with trying harder. It begins by becoming kinder. 43 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,760 And for so much of my life, I was incredibly hard on myself. 44 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,160 I was incredibly driven, always looking at what I hadn't done 45 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,400 and believing I should be doing more. 46 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,520 But stopping to think has shown me something very different, 47 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,240 that self compassion isn't a weakness. 48 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,040 Self love isn't selfish. They're actually the soil from 49 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:11,000 which lasting growth begins. As always, Ray and I aren't here 50 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,880 to tell you what to think. We're simply inviting you to 51 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,480 become curious, to pause, to reflect, to look at your life 52 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,560 with a fresh pair of eyes and perhaps begin the greatest 53 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:27,760 journey any of us can take. The journey of discovering who 54 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,000 we really are. Welcome to stop, to think. 55 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,920 I'll see you with Doctor Ray after this. 56 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,880 The greater things that are stuck in somebody, 57 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:59,400 that are stuck in somebody. Ray, good to I can see you and I 58 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,280 know our listeners can hear us. How are you my friend? 59 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,160 I am. Well, I know it's been, it seems 60 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,800 like a while you've been on a, a bit of a journey, you know, 61 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,120 across Asia and then back to England quickly and then to 62 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,440 Africa. So, you know, how's that been? 63 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,480 You must, you must. Jet lag must be an 64 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,000 understatement now. Well, you know, one of the 65 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,560 things we talk a lot about in this series of podcasts we've 66 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,800 been doing about it's not where you are as and who you are. 67 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,040 I think I couldn't have thought of a better kind of experience 68 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,920 to really bring that to the fore. 69 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,800 Being in Hong Kong and Macau, which is incredibly rich and 70 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,560 affluent, and then going to Africa, completely the opposite. 71 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,560 It just came at the right time. And this is one of the things 72 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,000 that I've really woken up to that maybe the world is kind 73 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:51,960 conspiring to help me and test me at the same time. 74 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,840 And I, and I'm excited that we get to revisit this, of this 75 00:04:56,840 --> 00:04:58,880 whole, this beautiful work that we're doing. 76 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,360 And I know so many people are enjoying again, reiterating it 77 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:03,720 where you are as and who you are. 78 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,120 I'd like to ask you a question actually, which just came to 79 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,480 mind, which is what impact has this had on you in terms of this 80 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,280 work around Where you are isn't who you are. 81 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:15,480 I know that you were, you've been talking about this for a 82 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,600 long time, long before we met. But I wonder, since you and I 83 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,240 have come together and we've been talking about this and 84 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,160 other people are listening to this all over the world, what 85 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:29,080 impact has this had on you? So that's a great question and I 86 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,240 think you're right. It's an idea, a theme that I've 87 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,040 used for many years. But when we got to know each 88 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,440 other specific to your situation, it became one of the 89 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:44,640 most profound examples for me. And I've worked with individuals 90 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,840 in lots of different contexts, even people with health 91 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:50,920 challenges. But I think just the point at 92 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,720 which we met Pete and you might be able to speak to this in a 93 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,160 minute. We, we went through a season 94 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,840 where you would, we were having an engaging in a conversation 95 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:03,680 where you'd already gone through immeasurable uncertainty and 96 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,800 you'd forged ahead, found the solution. 97 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:12,000 And that extended, you know, Hannah's life easily eight years 98 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,760 plus. And that's when I met you. 99 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:20,040 And then discovering that the cancer had come back and then 100 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,240 going to try and find solutions. I've witnessed you in that 101 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,360 journey and this theme that I've used, which yes, obviously had 102 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,680 some relevance, went into OverDrive. 103 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:35,520 So for me personally, it's application is key because we 104 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,200 can often talk about principles, but I think what we both 105 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,360 discussed in a podcast, we want it to be applicable to 106 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,200 individuals and yourself as a people's coach. 107 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,120 By definition, no one's interested in abstract theorem. 108 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,880 They want to know how does what does this mean to me today? 109 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,480 So they might say, well, Pete, how are you keeping it all 110 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,920 together when you've gone through loss and this is what 111 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,480 we're talking about. Well, you're actually saying 112 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,320 where I am is, yes, I'm a widower. 113 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,200 Where I am, I've got pain. Where I am, I have tough times. 114 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:12,880 But who I am, what I'm called to do, what energizes me, what I'm 115 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,560 thankful about, there's still work to be done. 116 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,000 And I've had the pleasure of witnessing you find this new 117 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,440 gear, this new energy, and actually it's created new 118 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,400 opportunities for you that you probably didn't believe would 119 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,000 have been there, but just by the attitude and what you're sharing 120 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,160 with people is triggering real positive responses from people 121 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,920 because there, there's a need for this not to be defined by 122 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,920 circumstances. Yet the world tells us no, it's 123 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,000 all about our circumstances. That's all that counts. 124 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,200 You know Ray. I just had. 125 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,040 Some very weird bodily sensations when you were saying 126 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,920 that just this like uprising within myself and I'm very 127 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,760 grateful because you've made me or you've supported me and 128 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,800 looking at the work. I've been doing around future. 129 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,360 Self and just gone back to it and looked at it with with with 130 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,360 this new essence of who I am and I'm invigorated by it all and I 131 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,640 really realised I was missing out on something really key that 132 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,560 I wasn't really emphasising which is, you know, discovering 133 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,720 yourself is something that is already there you know it's 134 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:19,920 it's. Within you, that's how. 135 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,760 I look at it and I'm, I, I, that might not be applicable to 136 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,080 everyone, but you know, where you are is exactly where you 137 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,160 are, you know, And that's a great starting point. 138 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,480 There's so much around. That and. 139 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,559 You haven't just. Come back from Africa. 140 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:37,000 Where you see these children, you know, 101 children, orphans, 141 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,760 you see, or I saw where they are, but listening very 142 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,760 intensively to their stories, you realise, And I was so, I was 143 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,080 so in awe of how many of them at a very young age found something 144 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,400 in themselves to get out of situations. 145 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:52,320 Many. Of them. 146 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:54,040 Got out and thought this is not right. 147 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,720 I am being this is not a good situation from I should not be 148 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,480 be treated like this. I'm out. 149 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:03,080 And to leave that, are you just saying, wow, look at this 150 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,760 incredible spirit that humans have. 151 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,480 But let's and then thank you for because what you know, what 152 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,000 you've in essence done for me is just sharpened my focus around 153 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,000 what's really important and just help me look at things with a 154 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,000 fresh pair of eyes. And you know, I, I am and I'm in 155 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,160 such a good place at the moment. So thank you for that. 156 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:24,960 And I wanted to explore that point about authorship. 157 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:30,560 You know, you're in control of your future self because I agree 158 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:33,720 with it in part, but I thought it would be good for us and as 159 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,720 our listeners are listening to this, if we're telling them not 160 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,560 to be defined by their circumstance. 161 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:42,720 So that is such a significant part of where they are that I 162 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,680 don't want anyone to beat themselves up and call 163 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:49,480 themselves a failure because their circumstance is really 164 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,160 getting them down. And I would imagine, imagine 165 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:57,920 that of those 101 delightful children who happen to be where 166 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,640 they are orphans, that they're all in different stages of that. 167 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,080 There'll be those that, you know, have been able to adjust 168 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,800 and they've got a flexibility to their, their psychological and 169 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,080 emotional response to their situation. 170 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,440 And there'll be others that are much more challenged. 171 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,120 And I think in our conversations, we've noticed 172 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,680 that people are looking at your situation and thinking, wow, 173 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:24,240 Pete's doing really well because there's this pole of expectation 174 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,240 that whether you should be in a corner feeling sorry for 175 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,880 yourself, you're kind of at the other end. 176 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,320 And that sometimes makes people feel uncomfortable. 177 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,800 How can a recent widower have all this energy? 178 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,240 It's counter cultural. So you've decided to author a 179 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,000 different narrative. But has that been easy? 180 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,360 No. I, I, I suppose it depends what 181 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,520 you would classify as easy. No, it hasn't. 182 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,920 It hasn't. Of course it hasn't because you 183 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,640 know, there's some of the emotion has been very raw, but 184 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,120 it's been a lot easier when I've had the support of some amazing 185 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,880 people of you being one of them. But also knowing that there's a 186 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,480 couple of things. 1 of knowing I'm being supported, knowing 187 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,240 what my wife wanted, you know, in her motto was just get on 188 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,560 with it. She, she would want me nothing 189 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:13,800 more than to remember her in a beautiful way and to get on with 190 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,560 my life. And the fact that I that to me, 191 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:20,560 I, I've said this before, Ray and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm loving 192 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,280 the conversation around life to me isn't about becoming. 193 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,920 It's about becoming through overcoming. 194 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:32,560 So this is something I'm, I'm really enjoying, but I, I, I, I 195 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:36,360 also really enjoy where you come from with this because it, it 196 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,520 opens my eyes to things and it also opens up my mind to there 197 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,880 are things that are outside of my control that are there to 198 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,480 help and support me. And whether you come from a, 199 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,280 from this, from a, from a Christian perspective or you 200 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,960 come from it from any other perspective, it's a beautiful 201 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,120 conversation to have that. What can you control? 202 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:01,840 And what can you let happen as a result of being intentional? 203 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,600 And I, I want to hear more of this from you because I, I love 204 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:07,640 it. I really enjoy it. 205 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,160 Time is a commodity that none of us can hold onto, none of us can 206 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,640 keep. So a good steward of time tends 207 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,400 to be someone that generally research suggests is happier. 208 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,320 But it's also at the same time one of the most difficult things 209 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,600 to do when you add in psychological, emotional 210 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,440 aspects, because the process of thinking, feeling, and then 211 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,720 subsequently doing your behaviour can really have an 212 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,160 impact on you on all levels. But you've just said something 213 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,400 there. You mentioned Hannah. 214 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,760 So you could call that past love, legacy. 215 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,560 And what you're doing is in your current tenses, living and 216 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:50,120 feeding off of the richness of that past. 217 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,640 And then in the present, you have love, which is less it 218 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,440 because I think this is what I'm saying. 219 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,240 You obviously gave love to Hannah, but where you are now, 220 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,120 and I'm looking at this, you're receiving constantly that flow 221 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,040 of her attitude into you, what she fed into you in the present, 222 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,040 you have what I would call love exchange. 223 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,200 We have that. We're talking and supporting 224 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,800 each other. But then it brings me back to 225 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,280 this space. You've talked about future self. 226 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,160 Interesting for me as I look at the logic of this, your future 227 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:28,760 self requires you to invest lovingly into your future. 228 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,480 It's that notion. We spoke earlier about the the 229 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,240 compound interest on seeding love and engaging in things. 230 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,960 So I wondered how that sounded to you, that you've got this 231 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,680 legacy which is trying to extrapolate the love from your 232 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:45,840 mum, your dad, Hannah, significant people using that in 233 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,800 the current tense and exchanging it with others and growing, but 234 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,920 then having this hopeful, optimistic, gratitude based 235 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,840 perspective of the future. And now you're giving love into 236 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,000 the future, but you don't know explicitly where it's going. 237 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,040 But that's a mechanism. So it's receiving, exchanging 238 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,280 and giving. I don't know how that sounds. 239 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,000 I've just made it out. I was always talked about. 240 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:13,480 Well, again, I just had so many goosebumps going through me 241 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,840 because two things. The first thing that came to 242 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,520 mind is nothing ever dies. Nothing dies. 243 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,880 It lives on. So that was the first thing. 244 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,760 So my, the people that have poured into me, they might not 245 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,240 be here physically, but I believe that they're still with 246 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,200 me and it dies and it's with me. So how could I not be stronger? 247 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,240 I know that's a choice, which is a fascinating element of humans 248 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,040 that, you know, we have this dignity of choice, but it's a 249 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,200 beautiful choice to make. It's. 250 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,640 Yeah, that was the first thing. But the second thing that came 251 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:50,120 to mind from what you said is that if you sow the seeds, let 252 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,080 nature do its bit. Just. 253 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,640 Don't you? Can't you? 254 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,000 Can't get in the ground and force the seeds to grow. 255 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,720 You've got to let it happen and I think we are a part of nature. 256 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:01,520 We are. We're. 257 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,000 You know how that works? I mean, you could probably. 258 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,960 You would give, I would imagine through your faith and maybe 259 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,480 other ways be able to explain that in a way that would help 260 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,280 people have a better understanding. 261 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,440 Of don't worry about the things that. 262 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,680 You cannot control. You often say that beautiful 263 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,200 quote around that. Be sure of the things that you 264 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,440 hope for. And certain of what you cannot 265 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,600 see. Yeah, and I think it's a, it's a 266 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,280 magical way, but it's a fascinating thing to kind of let 267 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,000 go. You have to let go of stuff, I 268 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,800 think, if you really want to embrace that. 269 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:38,800 What's your thoughts? On that. 270 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,920 Well, you've triggered me into something extended from there. 271 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,480 From a, a biblical point of view. 272 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,920 There's this fascinating relationship and I'm going to 273 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,520 try and make it so that it's in layman's terms. 274 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:56,840 But the metaphysical realm, God is represented by the vine. 275 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,200 So he's the source. He's the root system of who we 276 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,240 are for those in faith. And then it talks about the fact 277 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,320 that we are branches. So this is the bit I love. 278 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,960 The branch exists for a function and that's to bear fruit. 279 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,240 The fruit is for other people. So our job, our job is to give 280 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,120 that fruit away. If we hold on to it, it gets 281 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,440 rotten if we, we think it's us, but everything we have is to be 282 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,440 given away. So the vine is our supply 283 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:27,920 source. So when I look at the parallel 284 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,400 here, and perhaps that, you know, subconsciously was it 285 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,360 you're part of your your vine system for you is the love 286 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,000 you've received from your mum, your dad and Hannah, You are the 287 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,920 branch. So you're exchanging love with 288 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,800 others and that includes your past. 289 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,960 But that's helping you to create fruit. 290 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,040 And that fruit is what I believe is energizing you right now to 291 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,360 go out into the world, around the world, many areas. 292 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,680 I mean, it's been incredible. And I think that's part of this, 293 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,480 that that won't stop the momentum and the demand for you 294 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,119 at the moment is incredible. But there were times not that 295 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,000 long ago, people you were asking me, what does the future look 296 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,240 like? Will there be any opportunities 297 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:11,839 to work? Yeah, and that and that's. 298 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,200 About trying. To make things happen, which is 299 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,880 something I've done rather than just, you know, let it happen, 300 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,520 which again, it I don't think you you have. 301 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:27,280 I think that you have to choose which one of those you do, you 302 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,400 know, and I know I've seen you do that. 303 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,720 I've got all the people I've ever met who exemplify that of 304 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,200 I'm just going to I'm going to have faith, you know, I'm going 305 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,280 to have faith that there's something outside of me that is 306 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,080 going to support me as I stand in my faith. 307 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,160 I honestly, I really would say you are one of the best examples 308 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:52,320 I've ever met of that. And I am a novice at it, to be 309 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,280 honest. And perhaps that's also a 310 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:01,000 conversation for another day. But when I was in Africa and I 311 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,200 see how these. Children. 312 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:07,280 I see who I am and I what. That was the other thing when 313 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,720 you said about the fruit, it's not for. 314 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,880 You to keep. It's not for you to keep, it's 315 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,000 for you to give away. And I I met Mandela nearly 3. 316 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,800 Years ago, he's. A guy who runs this orphanage 317 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,200 and I saw he was an incredible human being. 318 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,760 But then when I met him and I got to know him, just like you 319 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,560 got to know me, I got to know. You I, I know. 320 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,040 Him, but then being with him, I thought this person is someone 321 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,240 who exemplifies a life of service, his life and his 322 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,320 brother dedicated. To giving to others. 323 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,360 So with where I am right now and, and knowing who I am, I, 324 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,480 I'm, I'm so inspired to give more to them, to give more to 325 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,120 them as they give more to others. 326 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:51,680 It, it sounds like a cliche again, but it's like, what a 327 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,840 beautiful thing to be a part of. And I know I've also spoken to 328 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,320 you about that and, and asking you to to support me and support 329 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,120 them. But I just also want to make the 330 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:05,680 point, you know, in March this year, you and I will meet again 331 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,160 as we will be presenting together and talking about this. 332 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,720 And well, how did that happen? We will be talking to a room 333 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,000 full of people in Los Angeles, and we'll be talking about this 334 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,000 whole. Did we make that? 335 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,000 Happen or did we did? What part did we play in making 336 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,720 that happen? I think we were intentional and 337 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,640 the more intentional we've become, the more I am being 338 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,840 rewarded by that. And that's where I want to stand 339 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,480 more and more because it's a, it's a better way of moving 340 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,560 through the world. Less stress, less worry, less 341 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,360 doubt, less anxiety. I am supported by something 342 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,320 bigger than myself. No, I love that. 343 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,640 I love that. So brand authorship then we're 344 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,720 we're speaking from the same, we're singing the same song, but 345 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,840 we've just got slightly different song sheets. 346 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,120 And that's OK. Yeah, because if, if, if we're 347 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,600 singing in time and we get it, this notion that fruit is 348 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,600 something that we've all been given, we're all tasked to give 349 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,000 away. You could call it generosity, 350 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,320 gratitude, you know, your purpose driven self. 351 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,280 I think that's universal irrespective of faith. 352 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,520 Then there's the exchange and and showing good empathy and 353 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,760 integrity with others. Not always easy. 354 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:22,360 I know my journey in life I've I've said and done the most 355 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:27,480 ridiculous things that haven't been in pursuit of respect of 356 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,160 others. It's been really survival of 357 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,320 self and that's what brought me into this space. 358 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,320 Pete in the 1st place is looking at the challenge for people, 359 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,440 particularly in the spotlight who, you know, if you think 360 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:47,280 about the 27 club people that there's a gap between who they 361 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,640 really are and where people see they are. 362 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,120 So if they're particularly in this digital space, when people 363 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:57,920 are perceived as successful, they're actually defined by that 364 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,560 success, but the individual knows this more to them. 365 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,200 And I think part of the podcast and me agreeing to to work with 366 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,960 you on this has been such a blessing. 367 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,480 As I said to you, it was an opportunity for people to know 368 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,360 you completely because you have this scenario, right? 369 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:15,320 What do I do? I'm a coach and motivational 370 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,680 speaker. I'm an author. 371 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,320 And you know, a missile has just blown my life upside down. 372 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,120 I said, well, that's good. Let's invite people on to the 373 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:28,840 site to see the damage. But just to kind of express that 374 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,320 through the debris, through the devastation, that there is hope 375 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,200 and there's reconstruction going on because there's parts of your 376 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,920 life that aren't susceptible to just a missile hitting them, 377 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,000 turn them upside down. And I think your living example 378 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:51,360 is more powerful than the average person because you know, 379 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:55,240 what you've gone through isn't the something that everyone can 380 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,120 bear. And some people, what's 381 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,120 extraordinary by your example, is your your commitment to 382 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:06,240 creating fruit through what you've been blessed with, the 383 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,040 love you've received, you're extending out to others. 384 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,960 And what would you say? Because it's come to mind that 385 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,400 we can talk about your your dear parents who have passed as well. 386 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,360 And Hannah, there's love there. What about individuals listening 387 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:24,280 to us right now that can say, well, that sounds fine for Pete 388 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,760 because, yeah, he's had a vine and he's been fed positively. 389 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,600 And you, Ray, your parents have been over. 390 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:30,880 Yeah. Lucky you. 391 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,760 Then what do we say to people that haven't had that? 392 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,960 Because what I don't ever want to do is to give this kind of 393 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:44,600 beautiful Mr. because they they still have received something. 394 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,160 Now, I would say that if you've not received positivity from 395 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,440 people and you recognise that wasn't right, therein lies 396 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,640 something of potential because you know you want to go in a 397 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,560 different direction. But what are your thoughts about 398 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,640 that to those listeners who may have had trauma and challenge in 399 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,520 their past? I think it's, it's obviously 400 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,120 good to talk and to be able to stop, which again is a key part 401 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:08,840 of what we've been talking for months about. 402 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,800 It's just to stop and step back and be curious. 403 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,280 You know, it's easy for me to have empathy like never before 404 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,920 when you see children, 100 children, 100 plus children who 405 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,920 are orphaned and you listen to their stories, which I which I 406 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,760 did to be humbled by other people's situations. 407 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,760 But something magical happens when people come together in the 408 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,600 spirit of love. And actually that charity that 409 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,280 that is run is called God in action and it's a Christian 410 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,800 based charity. And I was talking to Mandela 411 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,480 about this about to me, God in action is just love in action, 412 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:55,040 to be loving to oneself and to to know that it's OK to feel 413 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,200 traumatized, it's OK to feel lost. 414 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,800 But there is. Hope, I think there's always 415 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,920 hope. You know, I, I don't know where 416 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,000 that comes from, but humans have overcome so much. 417 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,560 And that's why I think we love the stories that we hear, 418 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,400 whether it's Viktor Frankel or Nelson Mandela or whoever has 419 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,480 found themselves in a situation that was really difficult. 420 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,800 And I have seen that through overcoming, there is the 421 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,720 opportunity to to become, to become more the way you were to. 422 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,360 So this is something that we will continue to discuss. 423 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,040 But as we bring this to an end and keeping in keeping with 424 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,400 saying we would keep this to 2%. Once again, Ray and myself 425 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,720 welcome you to participate with this conversation. 426 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,040 However you want to reach out to us through the podcast channel, 427 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,480 through my 365 or whether you reach out to us on on LinkedIn, 428 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,560 we would love to continue this. This isn't a conversation that's 429 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,760 going to end it it, it's a continuation. 430 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,880 So I wonder if you had any final words, Doctor Ray, before you go 431 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,040 off to church with your family this morning? 432 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,760 Yeah, I would say that for those and and Pete, let's be honest, 433 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,840 in our conversation when this thing came up and go, we can do 434 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,200 that for a week or two. And I just finished a series at 435 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:16,080 my church where someone had talked about 1 wasn't even a 436 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,480 chapter. It was a series of areas and it 437 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,520 was extended on for six to nine months because when you really 438 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,760 want to delve into the nuances of just our identity, our 439 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,600 friendships, there's so much data there. 440 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,720 So this, this notion of who and where, I believe if anyone is a 441 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,040 first time, listen, if they go back through, they will see this 442 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,080 incremental growth from the beginning. 443 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,960 And through that, there's been an opportunity for you to share 444 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,920 fruit at a time when people would have thought that your 445 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,960 branch was bare. In fact, it was falling off. 446 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,120 So that reversal is an example. And I'm going to share this with 447 00:25:55,120 --> 00:26:00,920 you here, the acronym from our conversation, which is RESL. 448 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:06,720 So it sounds like wrestle and wrestle stands for we receive 449 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,840 exchange and so or see, sorry, love. 450 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,400 So you've received love from the past, from Hannah, your family, 451 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,080 others. You exchange love with people in 452 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,640 your current tense. That's your commitment, that's 453 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,320 your mission. But you're at the same time 454 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,800 sowing. You're planting seeds into the 455 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,880 ground in love, hope and optimism into your future self. 456 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,080 And that means life's a wrestle. Obviously it's not spelled the 457 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,480 way we spell wrestle. In fact, it might be some light 458 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,480 relief for people that it actually felt like it sounds 459 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,520 RESL. So that was seeded between you 460 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,720 and I, our conversation. And for anyone out there that 461 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,240 life is a wrestle every day. So if your reception of love in 462 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,480 the past isn't one that's similar to Pete or mine, that's 463 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,160 your unique journey. And if you've had trauma, you 464 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,760 may be saying, because I didn't receive because the receiving is 465 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,160 what did you receive and what do you want to do with that 466 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,120 reception? You're going to receive lots of 467 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:07,600 love or not a lot of love. But now you have the 468 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,080 responsibility recognized. You can exchange love in a 469 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,640 positive way with self than others. 470 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,200 But most importantly, I think Pete, following on from you is 471 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,200 that you have an optimism for the future and you're seeding 472 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:26,840 because that will germinate and grow, because it will happen in 473 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,200 your life. If you want to make that part of 474 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,120 your commitment. You know, we, we are what we 475 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:35,680 think about most of the time. And we're really talking about 476 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,760 transformation of thinking here. And it's possible for everyone. 477 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,880 So I, I would land my plan on saying, yes, let's get people. 478 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,080 And we, we, I gladly received great comments from people, but 479 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,440 anyone else, take a take a deep breath, reach out to Pete and I 480 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,960 and LinkedIn, however you find this, and, and we would be 481 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,520 honoured. And if there's any key themes 482 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,600 that we can add into our discussions, we will. 483 00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,400 We would love that. We would love that. 484 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:05,400 So Ray, I want to thank you. Enjoy your your day today. 485 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,960 We will be back. Very soon with another episode. 486 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,760 So for now, take care my friend. Take care until next time. 487 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,240 Thank you for listening to the podcast. 488 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,800 And as we come to the end of this conversation, I'd like to 489 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,000 leave you with one simple question. 490 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,040 What fruit are you bearing, not for yourself, but for the people 491 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,280 whose lives you touch every day? The truth is, none of us can 492 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,480 bear fruit without first putting down roots. 493 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,880 And so much of the growth happens beneath the surface, in 494 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,880 the seasons that no one often sees. 495 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,520 Often it's in the darkness, through the challenges, the 496 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,600 loss, the uncertainty that our deepest growth begins. 497 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,960 If you're in one of those seasons right now, then I hope 498 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,480 this encourages you to be a little kinder to yourself. 499 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,280 Growth often takes time. Healing often takes time. 500 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,360 And perhaps the greatest gift you can give yourself is self 501 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,880 compassion. And really, I believe that 502 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,520 stories really do change people's lives. 503 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,960 I've read many stories in my life and I've written many 504 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,760 books, but the things that have had the biggest impact on me is 505 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,000 the stories of the people around me. 506 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,400 And the greatest story, I believe, is still to be told. 507 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,440 And maybe that's the same for you, that maybe the best is yet 508 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,600 to come In the documentary that I made, Hannah's Story, that has 509 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,600 won 11 awards and different film festivals around the world. 510 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,240 I made that film because it was definitely part of my healing 511 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,800 journey and I wanted to share it with her friends and family. 512 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,600 But now I realize that lots of people have watched the film all 513 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,720 over the world and they've been touched in such a way that maybe 514 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,880 their lives will never be the same again. 515 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,880 Hannah's real message and metaphor was to just get on with 516 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,080 it, to just go with it, to develop intentional thinking, to 517 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,280 stop and look at life with a fresh pair of eyes. 518 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,280 And if this is something that you're finding is helping you 519 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,640 and benefiting you in some way, shape or form, then feel free to 520 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,160 reach out to either Ray or myself. 521 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,760 Thank you for joining Ray and me on this journey. 522 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,160 If this conversation has made you stop and think, then we 523 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,560 would love to hear from you. You'll find links in the show 524 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,120 notes to connect with us on LinkedIn and subscribe to the 525 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,680 Stop to Think newsletter, where we will continue exploring these 526 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,520 ideas each week. And of course, if you know 527 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,720 someone who might benefit from this episode, then please share 528 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,640 it with them. You never know what a single 529 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,760 conversation might plant. So until next time, remember 530 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,840 where you are is not who you are. 531 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,280 Take care and keep stopping to think.