I'd just like to start this show with a shout out to all the
audio podcast listeners out there.
We apologize if there's echoes in our in our shows.
It's amateur hour here. We we don't really know what
we're doing most days, just kind of winging it and seeing what
happens. But most of our equipment I feel
like has not been reset back up the way we had since we moved.
And we're getting ready to move it downstairs.
So sorry about that. You will not always see this
background. It will actually look a lot
prettier very soon. Amy bought some lovely chairs.
I bought some IKEA furniture that I have to put together and
there's even ATV involved. Jeff, I'm going to need you to
come hang that. Let me know when I'm good at
IKEA furniture too. So you.
Let me oh are the ceiling. Fans still up that Jeff put up.
They are the ceiling fans are still up a couple of them no
matter what you do, do not turn off.
They just they just keep going. So if you're in the.
Jeff said you had some ever spinners.
Those are the ever spinners. They just continue.
Yeah, if you're if you're in the Orlando, FL area and you need a
ceiling fan install, reach out to Jeff Haslam.
He'll make it run forever. Never spinner.
Hey everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of The DVC
Show. I'm your host, Paul Krieger,
joined as always by my lovely wife, Amy Krieger.
Hello, we've got John Sicari AKA Big Fat Panda in the house.
Welcome home everyone. The one the only Jeff Haslam and
senior sales associate for the DC resale market, Derek Deborn.
Hey now, so I'm sitting here waiting because then I come
after Panda, and then I realized after the last show and my
props, you're probably like, I'm just going to go to Jeff first.
What's? Fun.
I feel like I just need to yeah, I need to just change the order
of buttons that I have here and and move him before you because
I just never know what's going to happen and I always I I feel
bad for Jeff some days because I don't know what just happened,
but never. Felt mad for me.
And I just want to say how cute you 2 are with your matching zip
up, zip up sweatshirts here in this episode.
So yeah, it is absolutely beautiful and audio listeners
will never get to see that. But actually so many of you
watch this on YouTube and I absolutely love you.
It would be great if just for like 1 episode you went over to
Spotify and watched this there too.
I'm just saying, you know, if you just want to change it up,
maybe just listen to us. That works as well.
And we could, we could bump those numbers up a little bit.
Just shameless plug. Yeah.
There's a level that you were trying to get to.
Yeah. So which we're not there.
We're not there yet. On the Spotify.
We'll be there one day. Tell your tell your parents
about us. Tell everyone.
Hi, Mom. How are you?
Listen to us. You.
If it's Spotify, you should be telling your kids about us.
The parents aren't going to know what that is.
Well, welcome to this week's episode of the DVC Show Getting
Away. Back on, back on track, back on
topic. We are talking more of our kind
of back to basic series that we are running with this year and
we thought it would be important to dive into what expiration
dates are when it comes to Disney Vacation Club.
Every single Disney Vacation Club resort has an expiration
date. All of your deeds that you have
for the specific resorts state this expiration date.
And so it's important to understand what this means to
members, what it means for the future of Disney Vacation Club,
and if you're a first time buyer, kind of how to plan for
that. This and all of our Disney
Vacation Club content is always brought to you by the world of
DVCDVC resale market. If you're looking to buy or sell
a Disney Vacation Club contract, Monera Financial who can help
with financing that DVC resale contract purchase and the DVC
Rental Store where you can try before you buy, rent out some
points or rent your own points for some cash.
And a quick note related to the world of DVC.
You may have seen it on the Internet, you may have seen it
on social media, but the world of DVC is now under a broader
umbrella called Key Holder Vacations.
What does this mean to you as someone that listens to us on
the DVC Fan show? Absolutely nothing.
For the most part, Key Holder Vacations is just going to
provide us with a wider range of abilities to meet the needs of
travel far and beyond. Disney Vacation Club.
We've talked about it in a couple different shows recently.
You know, we now are doing some Royal Caribbean cruise swaps.
So you may see kind of our brands starting to expand
outwards from the Disney bubble a little bit.
And that is why the decision has been made to have this
overarching brand, Key Holder Vacations kind of be our parent
company moving forward. But world of DVC still exists.
DVC resale market still exists. This whole motley crew still
exists and nothing else will change.
So if you do see that name out there, that is us.
But for the for the most part, you won't really notice any
difference in what we're going to talk to you about because we
are here to talk all things DDC or else Derek wouldn't be here.
No, I. Notice how fast he took off his
glasses just then? Like he's worried that people
are going to know that that's his alter ego.
I noticed. Because every time.
Wait, was that? Clark Kent Paul always has to
say something like, oh, there he goes, there goes senior sales
agent reaching. It's just too funny because not
the rest of the world doesn't get to see what I see in
between. Like if I, if I send the camera
over to Panda, I get to see the rest of you.
And, and you know, Jeff's taking a drink of water or something
while while Panda's talking, Derek is doing exactly what he's
doing now, fixing his hair or he's like trying to read some
piece of paper or the computer screen.
And, and if he does both at the same time, yes, he gets really
close. He gets really close to the
screen and he's trying to read the computer and it's.
It makes my night because I get. Serious.
That is information that is going to come back to haunt you.
Yeah, I have AI have a little window down here on my on my
screen. So I have.
Surprises for you? Yeah.
Do you guys see us? Do we disappear?
No. Yeah.
But Jeff, you could just press a button and you're on, so be
careful with your little surprises.
When somebody's full screen, we don't see anybody else.
Well, we are talking about. Deed, please don't upset the
folks at Key Holder Vacations. Let's talk about let's move on.
Move on. Yeah, I really don't know where
to go from here now. So there you have it.
We are talking deed expiration dates tonight and I think I kind
of kicked this off by kind of saying what is a de expiration
date and it's pretty self-explanatory.
So comparing us to other timeshare or I say us like we
are Disney vacate. Well essentially we are we are
the mayors of Disney Vacation Club just like Jeff is the mayor
of Olkey West. But when it comes to Disney
Vacation Club, unlike other time shares that basically are in
perpetuity, I guess forever, you basically buy in and you've got
this thing and your kids have this thing and then your
grandkids have it and they don't want it and they don't know what
to do with it. And then they have to hire
someone and pay them to get rid of it.
Unlike all of that, Disney Vacation Club actually came up
with a pretty ingenious model where it's like, we're only
going to give it to you for about 50 years, and then at the
end of that 50 years, we're going to take it back and you
own nothing. I don't want it to sound that
bleak because it's pretty awesome and the value you get
out of those 50 years is great. But every single resort does
have an expiration date. And if you are wondering what
those are on the screen right now, for those of you watching
on YouTube, you can actually see a list of all of these resorts.
So a handful of resorts all expire in 2042.
That is the actual the the closest expiration date to
today. So that's like Beach Club,
Boardwalk, Boulder Ridge. You also have Hilton Head, Vero
Beach to throw into that. Just kind of going down the list
here, though, You've got Animal Kingdom 2057, Aulani 2062, Bay
Lake 2060 Board Board. We'd already discussed
Boardwalk, Boulder Ridge. Those are 2042 resorts the most.
The newest Disney Vacation Club property, cabins at Disney's
Fort Wilderness. Not until 2075.
Someone will still be here talking about Disney Vacation
Club in 2070. I'll be pushing 90, yeah.
I'm not sure that we'll still be doing this show.
I'm just saying, you know, I love, I love the Internet and
all, but I don't know that I'll know what Disney Vacation Club
is by 2075. Amy will be like.
I hope Red Baron, Peach says. But every single resort does
have that finite expiration date.
And that's an important thing to consider when it comes to kind
of what property you are looking to buy.
Derek, I assume that, you know, this is a conversation that
comes up sometimes when people are looking at A at a specific
resort or specific property and, and you know, how many years
there might be. Yeah, especially, you know, a
lot of people at first as they're learning about the club,
that's a big question because a lot of people, their first
question, you know, maybe to me or one of the agents here is
always so which, which resort has the longest deep?
And I have to explain. OK, so are you familiar with the
club, you know, and how it all works?
No, but I just want the one that that's got the most years
because I want to be able to pass it on to my kids and I want
to be able to pass it on to my grandkids.
So we're of course happy to run through all that.
But what we want to stress, though, is that, you know, I
guess while that's the important, how many years are
left, what's more important is why are you buying that resort,
right? Because it all comes down to
that, you know, the one you buy, you have that home resort
priority. And not all resorts are created
equal, meaning not all resorts are easy to get into if you do
not own them. So there's some resorts, say
Boardwalk Beach Club in particular, you know, Grand
Californian, Grand Floridian, sometimes during certain times
of the year, those are, you know, may not be the easiest
resorts to get into. So it comes back down to it
like, Hey, listen, how do you vacation?
Do you have a favorite resort? You know, if so, regardless of
quote, UN quote, how many years are left?
If you love the beach club, right, But you're going to buy
something, you know, the the cabins at Fort Wilderness
because you want to be able to use it at the beach club.
You're probably going to be maybe disappointed for the next,
you know, almost 20 years because you may not be able to
get in to the resort that you want.
So I think even more important is, you know, not only how many
years are left, but how do you plan on using it?
Because if you love the beach club, every day I have people
that buy the beach club and they say, I know it's 2042, but you
know what, I don't want to be bummed out at seven months for
the next 1819 years. I want to be able to know that I
can get into the resort that I love.
So I'm not disappointed. So I don't care about how many
years are left. So again, that's where people
see, again, people see value in different ways.
Some people it's price per point, some people it's annual
dues. And this conversation is people
that find value. And I want to have the resort
that has the longest deed no matter what.
Amy, you mentioned that in up in a recent Q&A show that we
actually did regarding our boardwalk contract.
Yeah, I mean, I agree completely with what Derek said.
You know, I would rather be happy for the next what what we
got now like 18 years and knowing I'm going to get to be,
you know, exactly where I want to be.
Then having to kind of stress out, you know, especially if
you, you know, we, we talked about the, the planner and the
people that have specific ones and specific needs and specific
dates. You know, if you know, you want
to be staying at the boardwalk during the food and wine
festival, you know, in October, then you definitely want to make
sure that you have the resort. And a lot of people will buy
Vera Beach, you know, because they love, they want to be able
to go during those difficult to get during the summer or they
want the three bedroom beach cottages because you really
can't get those 3 bedrooms at Vero Beach unless you own there,
you know. So if that's what's going to
make you happy, then that's that's worth it because at the
end of the day, DVC is just as much an emotional purchase, you
know, as it is a financial one. Panda Jeff was was kind of
expiration date ever a consideration for you guys when
you actually bought into Disney Vacation Club?
I won't. I will tell you, I'm not even
sure I was aware of it at the time.
I mean, I was because of the shows, but I don't think I
thought of it as I was purchasing.
No, no. But there is something to be
said where they're at some point, like let's say you really
want old Key West. At some point there's going to
be a thing where do I do this that cancels in 2042 or take
something else that cancels, you know, 20 years later.
Yeah. That's it.
That's an argument. If you missed the first episode
of this kind of back to basic series, we talked about all
things Disney Vacation Club and Jeff, you mentioned on that show
how you know you specifically bought into Old Key West because
it was the best value for you at the time.
So does that kind of answer that you know, was was deed
expiration a factor in that? Component.
It wasn't at the time and Old Key West is weird because it's
got 2 expirations, which I'm sure we're going to get into,
but it wasn't at the time. I wanted the best value for the
dollar. At that time, the dues were low.
I had an extended contract. However, it's been 3, almost
four years now since I bought those contracts and the 12042
that I had left, I just sold because I'm starting to think
down the road a little further and I'm thinking I I don't want
everything that I own to be 2042.
I don't want to suddenly be out of points in 18 years.
I hope to not yet be dead and I'll be in my 60s, but I'm I'm
purposely offloading that contract for that very reason.
I want something that's got a little further out.
So did it come into play at the time?
No. Is it a factor now?
A little bit. So yeah, let's let's dive into
that a little bit. So 2042, that is the first year
in which multiple Disney Vacation Club properties are
going to expire. So we've got the original Old
Key West owners. Those contracts will expire.
We'll put an asterisk next to that and we'll get back to that
as to what that means fully in a little bit.
But Old Key West, Boardwalk Beach Club, Boulder Ridge, Vero
Beach, Hilton Head, that's six out of the current 17 resorts.
So that is a large component of Disney Vacation Club properties
all planning to expire in 2042. And I actually write a, you
know, a blog monthly for DVC resale market.
It's the average price blog. So it monitors kind of the
average price of contracts sold. And right before we actually
started this show, I was talking to Derek about it because I
actually just wrote the December 2024 one.
And one of the insights that I kind of came up with on that was
I think we're starting to see volatility in 2042.
I don't want to say that it's decreasing or declining yet, but
it's kind of like a wave that doesn't know which direction it
should go in right now. So we see kind of months in
which some of these resorts trend back up.
We see months in which some of these resorts trend back down.
On the whole, it's kind of followed the rest of the market,
which I think over the past two years has kind of declined in
value. But Derek, have you have you
kind of seen kind of a similar trend with 2042 resorts or do
you have maybe an influx of sellers reaching out to you that
are, you know, having this conversation?
Yeah, it it does kind of seem that lately, you know, I'm
talking to more and more sellers who when they look to sell and I
ask, you know, hey, So what do you own?
A lot of times it is that Hey, Vero Beach, I seem to be getting
a little bit more. We at the DVC resale market, I
seem to be getting a lot of Vero lately.
Some beach clubs which are again Beach Club and Boardwalk, those
I think honestly will always remain popular no matter what.
We just listed, for example, 100 Point Beach Club the other day,
within six hours, I think it had five different offers on it.
So again, for folks for those resorts, whereas something like,
again, a Bureau might tend to maybe sit for a little bit
longer because again, people initially when they look at some
of these and maybe they're not 100% familiar with the club,
they're like, hey, so wait a second.
I could buy points at Bureau Beach at like 50 bucks a point
and I could use them to go stay at the beach club.
And you're always like, I mean, technically, yeah, you can.
But let me break it out of view and what that means if you buy
Bureau and then you do walk through it because I want to
make sure that everybody's completely there.
You got 2042, you got the highest annual dues, and you
can't book a Walt Disney World resort until seven months out.
So that's where folks go. Oh, OK.
Yeah. So for us, it seems to be, you
know, the ones that, you know, honestly, we sell everything,
but the ones that tend to maybe sit a little bit longer than
average because 80% of them will sell within, you know, 30 days
or less. Are the Veros, the Hilton heads,
you know, for obvious reasons. It's, you know, 2042 does play a
part, but it's also there off property, you know, so they're
not at Walt Disney World. So it I'm honest with people,
I'm like, listen, where are you going to use it?
Well, I just want to use it for Walt Disney World.
Then buy a Walt Disney World resort, you know, buy a springs,
don't buy a Bureau, don't buy a Hilton Head.
But people like Annie said, people that love those cottages
that want to go, you know, during the busy time at Hilton
Head, which is the summer, people love to buy points for
those resorts. So again, it does come down to
being an emotional and for those, you know, off Disney
resorts, it's still very practical.
If you want to, you know, enjoy staying where you want to stay
for the next, you know, 1819 years, you got to do it.
I think it's really interesting to where these kind of resorts
fall, you know, when we look at those average resale prices,
because that's what we're, we're, we're really looking at
when it comes to what is the remaining value left on these
contracts. It's what's that resale value?
It's like when you're selling your house or selling a used
car, like is what, what is that remaining resale value?
I continue to get updates from Carvana that our Jeep's value
keeps plummeting and I really want to sell it right now.
But anyhow, when you look at kind of the the Walt Disney
World properties, you kind of see that difference that Derek
was talking about South resorts like Beach Club, Boardwalk in
the one 20s to one 30s per point still, even though they have
that 2042 value and they've kind of stayed there for the entire
year. Actually both of those resorts
actually saw an increase last year.
If you look year over year in terms of the the price per point
for those resorts, Old Key West actually also a a small increase
for the that 2042. So from $89.00 per point
December 23 all the way to $91.00 per point in December 24.
The interesting ones are the ones that are not at Walt Disney
World. Like Derek mentioned, Vero Beach
started December 23 at $58 per point.
In December of 24, it was at $51 per point.
Hilton Head actually did go up year over year.
So it's it's kind of its own outlier.
There's a lot of people that just love Hilton Head Island.
We went there last year. It was absolutely beautiful.
We're going to try to make it back there this year, hopefully
maybe in the fall season. But there was an interesting
thread that I found on Diz boards not too long ago, and I
just want to get your thoughts on it, which is that will Vero
Beach kind of be the first Disney Vacation Club property
that we maybe see hit a $0.00 value?
And what essentially that means is it's it's the sadness to
Derek's ears. I told him I didn't want to
completely, you know, depress him in this episode.
But when you factor in. The value of the contract $51
per point, let's say as of December 2024.
And then Derek, what are annual dues for Vero Beach this year?
You know, you're 1314. He's.
On again. I am I, but I want to say it's
like I want to say it's in the $1314.00 per point range if not
higher. It's over 13 bucks.
Yeah. And so it.
It's $1414.30. Yeah, so $14.30.
So when Jeff, you're, you're shaking your head no like it.
It's a sad thing because I know we all love Vero Beach, but.
OK, I do have a comment on that, OK.
And this came from someone who I think commented on one of our
videos and I thought it was a good point and where.
You're going with this? Yeah.
They were, yeah. And they broke down the math a
lot better than I'm going to because I'm not gonna break down
the math for you at all cuz it's math.
But basically the you write. Loans for a living, ladies and
gentlemen. The point they were making is
that, yes, Vero Beach has very high dues, the highest that
there are. But one thing that Vero Beach
also has is some of the lowest point charts.
So, like, it kind of evens out, you know what I mean?
You're paying, you know, this much dues, but you're only, you
only need this many points. So you need a whole lot less
points to stay there on average. Then like, you know, something
like Grand Floridian, Polynesian, yeah, the dues are
lower, but you need like double the points per night, you know
what I mean, to stay in a studio there.
So I thought that was a good point.
Which is a good point, but the difference is you're 2 hours
away from Walt Disney World. So I mean, it's going to be more
points. I mean, that's the whole point
is when you go to Vero, Yeah, there, there's nothing to do,
right? So I mean, your rooms are going
to be less per point. We just went three weeks ago, I
think today. So we were there for four nights
right before Christmas. Ocean View Room.
I think it was like 15 points a night or something. 20 points a
night, which was absolute insanity how low those points
are. But again, you're in Vera.
So I mean there's we love it, adore it.
Everybody that goes there loves it.
And then winds up a lot of members will add more points
because they say I want to be able to come back because I love
this place. But again, I mean that that's
why the points are always going to be more.
It's still a great point, but it's going to be more to say at
Walt Disney World then. Yeah, I hear that Vero decorates
are really, really pretty for Christmas.
It's the best. It's the best time of year to go
to Bureau. The tree is phenomenal.
Oh my God. I also, I don't want to fully
derail this show, but I also just can we take a minute,
Derek, just for you to tell us all that we were correct and
that Winden Waves is an amazing restaurant yet again.
So happy to post that on DBC fan because Andy and I went without
the kids for one night and we're like, where we going to go eat?
We didn't want to leave. So we're like, well, hello
Winden Waves, here I am. I went in there.
I was kind of afraid that they were like not going to serve me.
So I wore like a top hat and like a mustache.
We sat down. It was awesome.
I had the shrimp and grits. It was our service, which is
always been great at Bureau of the service is always
phenomenal. I just always had an issue with
the food there. But I could not be happier.
I was so happy to post that and happy to see that people were
happy with me at Wind and Waves. I saw a bunch of DVC fan folks
throughout my whole entire trip there, which is awesome.
So I love seeing them and every single one of them was like, I'm
so glad you like Wind and Waves. We're so happy to see.
Oh yeah, that was great. Yeah.
Jeff, I want to go to you with the question that I asked to
kick us off, but I'm going to add two other pieces of
information here to to kind of just set the stage a little bit
more. Sadly.
Vero Beach originally had an expansion plot that was across
the street from where it currently sits.
So the plan for Disney was always to expand Vero Beach
hoping that it did. Well.
Disney has sold off that land. They no longer own that land.
So I feel like that's a little bit of writing on the wall.
So going back to you kind of shaking your head there, you
know, do you think that we are going to kind of get to that
zero value here with Vero Beach Resort and, and what does that
mean and what do you think they maybe do with this property once
we get to 2042? Yeah, I, I, I think the closer
we inch to that, yeah, I think you're going to see those values
start to plummet. And I'm nobody has a crystal
ball, but I, I'm, I'm thinking after, you know, we crossed that
10 year mark, 10 years left on those deeds is when you're
really going to start to see those impacts.
If we're just guessing, but you know, we, we've seen time and
time again the Disney right now there's more for sale than
there's ever been and some of those properties are struggling
to sell. You know, right now we've got
Disneyland Tower, we've got Aulani, we've got, what else do
we have? The caverns, Polynesian.
There's a lot of inventory right now that they're having trouble
getting through. Some are selling better than
others, but I don't think they're going to want to put
themselves in a position to try and flip 6 properties at the
same time. I think unfortunately for Derek
and for a lot of us, I think Vero and Hilton Head will get
sold off. I think they'll become Wyndham
or RCI or Marriott or somebody completely different than that.
Maybe they'll get raised and something else built there.
But I just don't see the off property experiment for Disney
didn't really do what anybody thought it was.
Now, if if they were to surprise us next year to say, hey, we're
going to build a DVC in Salt Lake and in Vegas and in Vermont
and all these other places that we all wish they would, that
could be a different conversation.
But I just, it doesn't feel like that experiment worked very well
for them. So I I think those will be the
first to go have thoughts about the other ones.
But yeah, I wish that. I wish that there was a scenario
in which, you know, Disney Vacation Club could expand
internationally. That is, that is probably one of
the biggest struggles with Disney Vacation Club.
But we've said before, I would love to see like Disney Vacation
Club on a cruise ship. Now, the annual dues would be
through the roof probably. And what happens if your ship
sinks? You know, that there would have
to be some parameters around that.
But also, we get questions all the time about, you know, going
to Tokyo, going to Disneyland Paris, Shanghai, as they
continue to, well, what's the last ship that sank?
Titanic. Coast of Concordia.
I don't think it's a. Concern even as much as a
sinkhole. Hey, the coast of Concordia.
Sunk in like 20 what? What 2016?
I don't know. Paul just made it sound.
Like it's a, it's a weekly thing.
I know you gotta worry. About the ship.
OK, I like how the answer was. Titanic, though Lincoln 1912 was
the last time. Our our good friends, Dan and
Jeff, we went on the Icon of the Seas with Royal Caribbean with
them last year and they were extremely, Dan is Dan was like,
don't show me anything about sinking ships or anything like
that. He was like, this thing looks so
big. It's just going to tilt over
when they throw it into the water.
I mean, it's, it's likely to go down and all this stuff.
So what do I do as an amazing friend?
I double down. They have a pool.
So I sent them an inflatable of the Titanic to put in their
pool. And comically enough, one time
he sends me a picture one night and it had fell over.
So I was like, well, it's a sign.
It's a sign. So it was 2012, Yeah.
That it's saying I just saying logistically.
There'd probably be a lot of we we know how Disney is with legal
on a daily basis, so the better question is how many.
Times has Carnival caught on fire last?
Year, I think it was 2 at least in one year.
They don't. The people.
Don't react, they just continue to party by the watch the videos
group package. But I, I think that's, you know,
I, I wish if Disney were to explore expansion again for
Disney Vacation Club, it would be great to see them move in
those directions where, you know, your clientele already
loves the product that you have. I think that's the struggle with
these other properties. And, and it's not that they're
like you. You ask us like, we'll do this,
you know, for 2025. At some point, we'll probably
discuss our favorite Disney Vacation Club properties.
Derek's going to say Vero Beach. One of us in some capacity is
probably going to say Aulani. You know, these properties that
are not at Disney World are some of the best Disney vacation I
know. I really.
Hate that they don't do well, you know what I mean, 'cause I
wish it was such a vibrant. I wish that they could expand.
I wish that there was just DVC, you know.
Hey, we got, we're going to New York City out of a cruise where
we're gonna stay, of course, we're gonna use our DVC points
and stay at the Times Square DVC Resort.
Or did you know that there was a New York?
City DVC concept that once one time that I didn't know that.
Or like, hey, I want something different.
I want to go to the mountains or I want to go to like Tahoe or
ski resort or something. It, it's just, it's so cool.
If you could be like, let's just use our DVC points.
We know we'll be taken care of at the well taken care of at
this, you know, DVC resort. But I just hate that the concept
didn't work well enough that they're just, you know, and and
you have to like understand, like, yes, we get it.
If you love DVC, you're probably very parks focused and and
that's understandable. But yeah, yeah, it's just keep.
Going off the rails here, but. Virgin Voyages is testing a new
thing where you can hop on, hop off at the mini.
So you you take your cruise, you get off the ship in Bimini, you
stay there for a week and then you catch the next boat that
happens to come into port. And like, Can you imagine if DVC
did that with Disney Cruise Line and you could just pop over to?
Lighthouse Point. Or whatever they've come up
with. I thought that they were going
to do that when they built. Lighthouse point, because they,
they bought, they bought enough land out there that I thought,
what if, what if somehow they packaged the ability to take a
three night cruise and go to lighthouse Point and then stay
there on, on your property for, you know, three nights or so and
then hop back on the cruise ship and come back.
I, I, I think people would love that.
I think, you know, definitely you've you've seen the growth in
cruise line over the course of the past five years coming out
of the pandemic that you have to say to yourself, if there was a
way to package this, like it would blow my mind if it's not
on a whiteboard somewhere and it's not having been discussed.
And they're just, they're just like, how could we make it
legally work? How could we make it feasibly
work? Because we are talking about
like, I don't, I don't know that we would ever know.
Like how much did Riviera cost to build?
But it's definitely probably not the same amount of money that it
cost to build Disney treasure that just started sailing in
December. So, you know, we we go down this
fantasy route, but it's like, what would the cost per point
be? How many years would be on this
contract? What's the annual do?
What's what's that ship going to look like in 50 years?
Does it get a refurb like what happens do this?
Off go on a cruise ship. Yeah.
So there's there's just a lot of questions about that.
And so unfortunately, you know, I, I do kind of agree with Jeff
what you said and, and kind of the direction that I think
Disney will go in 2042, which is that a lot of these, you know, a
lot of these external properties will probably close or be sold
off. I, I just don't see them.
They would surprise me if, if they, if they did something
else. And, and a lot of questions we
get all the time is Disney's got to have a plan.
What's their plan? Why aren't they telling us their
plan? I guarantee you, I guarantee you
from the bottom of my heart, the current leadership, they don't
care nor do they really know there might be on a 10 year
plan, a strategic vision for what this might look like or
potentially how it rolls into the current package of what
they're doing. I do think the writing is on the
wall with kind of what they're doing with resale restrictions
and maybe what they're doing with the Palmetto Trust, but
they really don't care at this point in time.
Most of them are going to be somewhere else at that point in
time and they're not going to have to worry about it.
And they just care about, you know, getting from year to year
and, you know, hitting their one year goal, hitting their
three-year goal, hitting their five year goal.
So this is this is a question mark that is far out there.
I don't know what Jeff said about the 10.
Year thing with people, I think that's with Disney Tour.
I think as it gets to the last 10 years, we'll hear it come up
a lot more well and it's so abstract.
Right now, 18 years down the road, yeah, when you have a 5060
point or 60 year contract, that's a long time, 18 years,
there's not that much left. But 18 years is still a long
time. Like that's a whole it is.
Getting out of the. House, right born.
To adulthood like yeah, exactly. So I.
Think it's very abstract for everybody to think that far down
the road, but at some point somebody's going to have to
think that far down the road. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, every. Single day, every single day I'm
blessed to have at least multiple people ask me.
So what happens in 2042? Like every day someone will
always ask me and I literally have the same answer and.
You just said. It Disney's literally trying to
get through 2025 like they are not thinking.
Well then, like everybody, let's.
Have a meeting now. Remember who's got.
Plans for. 2043, right? We're just trying to have.
You know, frontier land, not, you know, blow up with sewage
and so they could build tires on.
We're not worried about 24, so like well and.
Aulani is. The time.
Wise too, Jeff, I mean. You just touched it.
I bought my boardwalk in like 1999 where I didn't have any
kids. Olin is now 20 years old,
Connor's 16 years old. And Annie and I just said we're
like holy count got we still got what, 18-19 more years left of
this. So when you're in it and you
realize how long that you know, span of time is, it's, it's OK
just because I know. The calendar, just just because
I knew a calendar can do this. At the end of this show, Derek,
I'm going to send you a calendar invite for dinner invitation in
2042. Yes.
Panda will just decline it though, but thinking I accepted.
It thinking right? But the perfect illustration of
this is. Aulani, if they were worried
about things not selling, they wouldn't keep raising the price
of Aulani because it's been sold for 152 years now.
So yeah. Yeah, you know what though?
It's also interesting because I do.
I get asked just at Monera all the time, you know.
Well, what do you think's going to happen in 2042 to these
resorts? You know, should I be buying it?
What do you think's going to happen?
And it's, I just want to be like, like, think about 2024 and
like in January 2024, Jeff, did you know you were going to buy a
house in that year? Like, no, like we didn't know
that. Like there's so many things that
can happen to you in just one year.
So many things can change in your life that you don't, you
don't even know. So yeah, they're, they're not
going to know. Nobody knows.
We mentioned this at the top. Of the show related to Old Key
West, but Old Key West is the only property in which I don't
know if they tried to maybe answer this question a little
bit or if they were just experimenting.
I'll let Derek go into more detail because I know he was
around whenever that debacle happened.
But Old Key West has two expiration dates.
So if you're ever looking at Old Key West contracts, most likely
if you're buying direct through Disney, they're going to sell
you what is a 2057 expiration date contract.
And if you look on the resale market, you're going to see a
combination of both 2057 and 2042 expiration contracts.
And this is because many moons ago, back when Derek was a young
buck selling Disney Vacation Club, before the before the
reading glasses, Disney Vacation Club offered a 15 year
extension. So they gave the original owners
or the owners at the time of Old Key West the ability to extend
their contract by 15 years. What then ensued is maybe I
would say between 20 to 30% of people at the time decided,
yeah, I'll take the extra 15 years.
It was a decent price or whatever it was, and then Disney
realized they had a problem because they had about 80% plus
of the ownership of this resort that didn't take them up on that
offer. And how do you extend the deed
of a resort when only a certain percentage of the resort has
actually extended? So that then ensued a a
combination of quitclaim deeds and other affidavits that had to
be signed and threats that Derek had to make to people to sign
those in in order to try to get most people that didn't buy it
to say that they knew specifically they had to vacate
that place in 2042. Derek, did I get any of that
wrong? I'm having like PTSD.
Now, just trying to remember what it was like back in 2008.
So yeah, Paul's exactly right. Disney came up with the idea and
said, hey, you know what we're going to do?
OQS expires in 2042. So let's offer folks the chance
to extend 15 more years. So their deed goes until 2057.
And what we're going to do, we're going to give it to you
for a deal. So I think the first
out-of-the-box offer was, I believe it was like $10 a point,
right? So you had members say they had
200 points. Seems like a no brainer, right?
You're like, hey, for, you know, $2000, you can extend your
membership 15 extra years. But the problem was, you know,
vacation guides and everybody had to get a hold of all the
options and thousands and thousands of members to reach
out to them to say, would you like to do this?
And like Paul said, it probably, I wonder if there's ever been
anything official on how many people did it.
But it would definitely was not the response that they had hoped
for because a lot of folks, and they would tell me even over the
phone, because we would have literally phone nights where all
the guides were asked to stay over and we would just go
through, you know, entire lists of calling all these members.
Did you want to do it? And a lot of folks were like
literally had the answer. And I don't blame them.
They're like, this was in 2008, keep in mind.
So they're like, hey, so in 2042, do you want to give us
3004 thousand $5000 now for something that's going to kick
in in 2042? So a lot of folks are like, you
know, no, I mean, I'm good. I've got how many more years
left of this? So that's where the majority of
folks just said no. But then like Paul said, then it
became an issue of like, OK, so all the folks that said, no, you
can't just say no, you got to sign this, you know, quitclaim D
back that we're going to take it back from you in 2042 because
we've got some folks over here that took it all the way till
2057. So it was a hot mess.
And so that's where I think that, you know, experiment
stopped. And that's why people ask, hey,
are they ever going to do something like that again for
like the Boardwalk or Beats Club?
And I'm like, no way they're just going to let this stuff
settle, let it come to the finish line.
However, it's going to come because it just did not work out
because again, I wouldn't want to do it like I would not want
to give 3004 thousand dollars now where I still.
Had 30 more. Years left like no, I'm not
paying that, but Derek, let's say in. 2035, they made that
offer for the 2042 people. You don't think they would have
a lot more people take it? Oh, 100.
Percent panda that and you don't think they'll revisit it?
In the future, I don't know. About that, well.
And and before. We get into theories and
speculations. Let me just add this to the
conversation. I was at the Boardwalk Condo
Association meeting in December. This question was asked as to
whether or not there was a consideration for an extension
to Boardwalk. The leadership of DVC shut that
conversation down so fast that, yeah, I and, and most of them, a
lot of the senior leadership, you know, they've a bit, they've
been there probably, you know, back when Derek was there,
they've lived through the Old Key West debacle.
I can tell you for a fact that at least a lot of the people
there that are in senior leadership also have that PTSD
related to what happened to Old Key West.
And the answer is no. The answer is no to that
question right now. Now, Jeff, I, I and I will let
us go kind of around the room and give some speculation
because I've had some speculation and thought as to
what they might do for many years.
But Jeff, I'll let you, I'll let you leave the discussion here.
Well, and to that point, I. I myself personally asked that
question in my old Key West meeting.
I brought it up to the fact that they've kind of backed
themselves into a corner here. And just like Paul said, they
did shut it down. And I can't remember her name is
Yvonne. Yvonne, Yes, Yeah, she very
specifically said there are no plans to revisit that.
But my point to them was, and I and I think they heard it, but
and I think it's something that they they've thought about.
But for example, and I don't know how many people are in this
boat, but I admittedly own a lot of old Key West contracts or I
did until recently. I actually looked at them one
day and one of my 2040 twos and one of my 2050 sevens, we're in
the same building. You look at the legal
description on your deeds and your purchase contracts.
Same building, two different expiration states.
Now mind you, it's like a tile. It's like a one inch tile that
you own or the door knob or whatever that you want to
percent that out as but. I don't.
Know how legally they're going to be able to do anything with
that property until 2057. I think they've backed
themselves into this corner because there's probably a lot
of those buildings that are hybrid like that.
Some expire this day, some expire that day.
They do buy old Key West back pretty frequently on right of
first refusal. I personally speculation.
I don't know how they're going to get out of it or they're just
going to be paying their own dues themselves after 2042 to
2057 on those contracts that have expired.
But the maintenance is still going to be there.
Not everybody will have expired. It's it's going to be a weird
situation. So I.
That's. My personal feeling I.
Think the other three that we haven't talked about, Boulder
Ridge Beach Club, Boardwalk. First of all, their point charts
have no business being as low as they are.
Other properties that. Are adjacent Epcot adjacent to
Magic Kingdom? Those are easy flips.
Polish. Paint, call it something
different. Easy peasy.
But I think Old Key West is going to be the exception.
I don't know how they're gonna get out of it.
Yeah. No I completely agree.
The point charts is where I come back to, especially when you
look at boardwalk and beach club like you they are.
I feel like when you compare them to Grand Floridian,
Polynesian, which I get like those are like the Crown Jewel
resorts, but those are walking distance or monorail distance to
Magic Kingdom. You got walking sky liner boat
to alcohol and Hollywood Studios.
I think that they regret how low the point charts are at
Boardwalk and Beach Club and that is going to be one of the
first things they want to change and and Amy.
That's such a perfect point. Just when you both said that is
just because that goes to the value of Disney Vacation Club.
And I say that because people again ask all the time, like
what am I going to do in the club?
Because they're going to Jack up the points and blah, blah, blah.
It's going to be more points later on.
I go listen, the points are what what they are.
Those charts. Do you not think that if Disney
could in some way, shape or form change those Beats Club and
Boardwalk point charts, they 100% would, but they can't.
They legally can't. So that is the value of buying
Disney Vacation Club is those point charts are basically see,
you know, they're sealed up so that it goes to the value.
But now you see they're like, OK, we're going to build 1 now
They ain't making that that same mistake.
They kind of kept doing it with old Key West was insanely low
and they're like, wait a second, maybe we should make the next
one a little bit more and now and so forth and so forth.
So and it's. Worth noting, this is a this is
a one time problem that Disney Vacation Club have have backed
themselves into because if you, you know, I'll, I'll put this up
on the screen again. If you look at all of the other
resorts, all of the other expiration dates are staggered.
So what they learned very quickly is that they needed to
make these, you know, 50 year contracts based off of the year
that the property was built. And so those numbers just extend
outwards just like cabins at Fort Wilderness as a 2075, you
know, that's a 50 year contract essentially from the first year
that it'll be a fully converted resort.
And those decisions, you know, were methodical because they
don't want to get themselves into this situation again,
because this is where for me, my theory with what they're going
to do comes into play is because I don't see how they function
with so many resorts going offline.
If we just specifically look at Walt Disney World, you've got
beach club, you've got Boulder Ridge, you've got Boardwalk.
And then you have the old I, I, I will remove old Key West
because they have their old own problem that they're going to
have to deal with over there. It's like half.
But it yeah, it'll it'll. Old Key West will have its own
problem that they'll significantly have to deal with.
But you know, just looking at unless they unless they make
sure that they sell out of Alani and all their other points
before 2042 so that they can then offer three resorts at once
because they're doing that now. Let's be honest, they're they're
offering at least three different properties at Walt
Disney World now. So it's not unheard of that they
could potentially try to sell all three properties at once,
but it would take some time. And also you would imagine that
they would have to take these resorts offline for maybe a year
to two years to fully refurbish them.
I mean, we know the refurbishments that like
Boardwalk just got, but if you look behind, you know, the walls
in Boardwalk, there's a lot of stuff that they need to do.
So, you know, are they going to demo portions of these resorts?
Are they going to add a tower in the middle of, you know, Beach
Club that extends the number of rooms that they're able to sell
there? You know, all of these things
are, are potential things that they can do in 2042 to then flip
and resell. For those reasons.
I wonder if and Panda, I, I will pose this to you because you
kind of asked this question earlier.
If you were offered, let's say that you own a 2042 contract
five years or so before that contract expires.
What if Ioffer you a a 15 year extension that takes it out to
2057? But it's kind of a flex
membership almost say the Palmetto Trust for example.
It's a trust membership in which your points are now able to be
used at 3 or 4 different properties.
Beach Club, Boardwalk, Boulder Ridge, perhaps if they don't
sell them off these other 2042 properties, Hilton Head at Vero
Beach based off of a certain parameter and timeline of
knowing that this resort is going offline at this period of
time, This resort is going offline at this period of time.
So they're solving 2 problems at once.
Essentially what they're doing is they're allowing themselves
more time to maybe take one resort offline at a time.
And they know that only a certain percentage of owners are
actually going to buy into this 15 year extension.
But they're allowing themselves the ability to take one resort
offline, flip it, resell it, move to the next, flip it,
resell it. And then once that 15 year
period is done, then they have 4 beautiful new Disney Vacation
Club resorts that they've either resold or flipped.
And that's when your contract or kind of your extension contract
expires. I think it solves for multiple
problems. It's just whether people would
kind of buy into that concept of I'm almost buying a 15 year
extension for multiple properties, I'll do it.
I I would be a no. Yeah, really.
Yeah, if it doesn't function the.
Way I'm used to all these years of DVC.
No, it sounds too loosey goosey and too strange.
Change it up on me like that. Yeah, I would have to really do
a deep dive. But I just wanted to say back to
what you were saying about how Disney leadership right now
doesn't care because many of them won't be there in, you
know, 15 years or whenever this happens.
I think the same thing in 10 years from now when they revisit
this, I think the whole PTSD that you guys feel from it will
be long gone and extensions may be offered again because
different leaders, the leadership's going to change
three times by then. God only knows what can happen.
Yeah, that's the same. Thing we see in the parks too,
you know with with the expansions you know it's gone
are the days of let's announce something because now now we're
in the days of well we're thinking about this what do you
guys think about that if you like it enough maybe we'll do it
you know so I think I think we'll see feelers I think we'll
see surveys all of that kind of stuff as we get closer to that
yeah and another. Thing to just piggyback on to
that too. I, I don't know, I, I, I think,
I think that those ones that are adjacent to Disney World are,
are still going to get flipped right at 2042.
A couple years ago I maybe wouldn't have gone so hard with
that, but they clearly have no problem.
Selling multiple resorts. At the same time, and again I go
back to, you know, they're selling old Key West for 165 or
170 a point. New resorts are going for 235
now like. They're going to want to make
money. And they're going to want to
make money fast. And so I just, I don't, I don't
see an extension being in the cards.
Maybe again, like I said, old Key West, but those other three
like Boulder Ridge is such an easy Copper Creek 2 point O that
I just don't see the necessity for them to extend that
contract. Well, and.
And and to your point, they also don't have problems right now
selling a resort that's 10 years old as a brand new property.
Again, that's what they're doing with the Polynesian.
I mean, there's 11, yes, less years on that contract.
And and and you know, it's, it's still selling as a new, as a
new. Property right as.
A new price. And if you're buying into the.
Brand new Island Tower today it it's not 50 years from today
that is still a 2066 contract for the Polynesian that the same
thing that they just proved with Grand Floridian, Grand Floridian
2064 contract. So we had Grand Floridian 2064
then two years later the Polynesian added one.
So 2068 that's Copper Creek, be interesting to see if we see do
they flip more of Wilderness Lodge and add it to Copper Creek
or or what they do Boulder Ridge to Copper Creek?
And yeah, kind of. What do they do over there?
Because I think that they, they've, they found a, a golden,
you know, opportunity with kind of adding to these resorts and
offering kind of that 40 year contract purchase option.
So it'll be interesting to see what they do there.
But I know we've kind of derailed in this show talked a
lot about 2042. And because that is that is kind
of the expiration date that if you are looking at Disney
Vacation Club, you do need to pay the most attention to
because it is the one that's coming up the the the quickest.
But I, I kind of end things by saying the same thing that I
said in our first Back to basic show where we would discuss
Disney Vacation Club where if this is a serious consideration
for you or if you do know what you're doing in 2042 or beyond,
then you know, talk to a Disney Vacation Club sales guide,
whether direct or resale, and engage them in those
conversations. Express might maybe concerns
that you have about a specific resort and its expiration date
and how maybe that affects you or your family.
Derek, I don't know if you have numbers on this, but average
Disney Vacation Club owner probably never sees the entire
life of a contract, do they? No.
I mean, honestly, it's pretty rare.
So when we see people that are looking to sell their old, old
Key West, you know, and you look at their contract number and
it's like, you know, 1003, you're like, holy cow, when did
you buy this? And they're like, oh, like 1991
or 1992. It pretty rare.
I think the average lifespan of a membership is somewhere around
and Paul, you might know too, I think it's somewhere around like
7 to 10 years or somewhere in, in that mix where families won't
all the time sit and say, so I don't care.
I want the one with the longest fee because I'm never going to
sell. And I know when you buy this,
you think I'm never going to sell it, but we sold for over
4500 contracts last year. Not every one of those 4500
contracts when they first bought it said, I can't wait to sell
this in 2024. Nobody said that.
But you know what, life happens. So life gets in the way.
For the most part when people sell, they're happy.
You know, I'm, they're like, God, you know what, we'd use
this, we'd love this. We tell the new owners, I hope
they love it as much as it's so cute when they do that because
it's like buying a house. They're like, Oh my God, our
kids grew up with this membership.
Other people might sell because, you know, in the case of divorce
or maybe a job loss or for whatever reason.
But I mean, thank God that there's an out for these people,
you know, to be able to, to sell it and recoup your funds because
I'm, I'm in in agreement with just about everything.
I think everybody said, I don't think there's going to be any
extensions. No way.
They ain't going to touch that with a 10 foot pole.
They're not going to do quick claim deeds and buybacks.
And do you want it? Do you not want it?
If you don't want it, you got to do this.
They ain't got time for that. So they're going to, I think
Bureau and Hilton Head I think will be gone.
So I think they will literally take that land and put up
whatever it is, they can sell it to whoever it is.
It's incredibly valuable property on both fronts.
I think those are gone. And I think just like Jeff said
and you guys kind of talked onto, I think they're just going
to take the Beach Club and Boardwalk.
Hey, you know what, we're going to, you know, demolish this half
of the resort. We're going to build new ones,
sell it as a brand new membership, however that's going
to work because that location can't be beat.
But yeah, it's going to be interesting.
But I tell people every day, if you're buying a 2042, plan on it
ending. Don't buy it in hopes that
Disney's going to do something. Don't buy it in hope that
there's going to be a super cheap extension down the road,
blah blah blah. Buy it.
Plan it ending in 2042. Yep.
We really want to hear your comments on 2042 Resorts because
I think this is going to be more and more of a conversation over
the over the next 15 years or so.
And hopefully we're here kind of enjoying this journey with you.
And, and you know, in seven to 10 years, we haven't sold all of
our Disney Vacation Club points, but but I think it's going to be
a topic that comes up in conversation more and more and
one that we focus on more. But let let us know in the
comments below. Like what are you thinking about
2042 resort, if you own one right now?
Has this been a conversation that you've had or is it kind of
like, you know what, yeah, these resorts expire, but I'm probably
never going to own it to term anyhow.
So it's not something that you've overly been concerned
about with your with your purchase.
But that's going to do it for this week's episode of the DVC
Show. We hope you enjoyed it and we
will see you next Monday.