I'm waking up. Wow.
Derek is pumping us up for our third show.
Derek, Derek, give us a little pump up like speech or something
like that to just get us ready for this.
Remember, the magic is in each and every one of you, no matter
what kind of a day you're having.
I don't care if you wake up and you're feeling like I can't do
this, I'm so tired. You can't.
You have the magic in you. dvcresalemarket.com add some
points. Thank.
You have the magic. DVC, Derek.
Everybody resale Derek. Excuse me, Resale Derek.
Everybody and welcome to this week's episode of The DVC Show.
I am your host, Paul Krieger, joined as always by my lovely
wife Amy Krieger, Sales Executive for the DVC Resale
Market, Derek de Boer. Hey now, happy Monday or Tuesday
or happy Wednesday? But if it's Thursday and you're
watching this, we're. On your own.
The Honorable Jeff Haslam is here with us again.
Hey, everybody. Jeff, Derek, did you?
Is that a puppy? So relaxed compared to the suit
he had. On I know he was this like
funeral director stiff, like keeping up like a.
Funeral. Director thing, I really don't
like that. I'm sorry, it was just really
dark. Although I'm wearing a a black
shirt so I can't say anything. Don't make me start.
Coming up with your nickname, young lady?
All right, I'm done. I Yeah, Derek, did you have that
kind of speech? Is that one that you've done
before? Is that?
That's the one he gives every time someone gets on the you
know, the live chat, the live chat with him or whatever it's.
Called I just. I.
Don't know. I never know what we're going to
talk about. It's just Derek.
You toss him a peanut and he'll say whatever you want.
It was amazing. Like I actually got motivated
for it like I was. I felt better.
You stopped talking. I will make up another one.
Because you stopped talking. So yeah, that's pretty normal.
Your hair is eating the microphone.
So welcome everybody. Thanks for tuning into this
week's episode of the DV CS Show.
We decided to touch on a topic this week that when we looked
back through the archives, we've not really delved into for quite
some time. And that is basically kind of
everything you need to know about DVC resale restrictions as
we are here in 2026. What they mean should you be
concerned about them, should they impact whether or not you
decide to buy a direct contract or a resale contract, We're
going to walk through all of those specifics before we do so
this and all of our content is always brought to you by Key
Holder Vacations and the world of DVC.
DVC resale market where you can buy or sell that Disney Vacation
Club resale contract. Monera Financial who will assist
in financing that DVC resale contract.
Purchase the DVC rental store where you can try before you
buy. Rent some points for a fraction
of the cost as is direct through Disney.
Or if you've got some extra points this year you're not
going to use, rent those out. Put some extra cash in your
pocket. Last but not least, unlock
magic.com/DVC fan for discounted Walt Disney World, Disneyland,
and Universal Park tickets. I look back through kind of the
archives a little bit. Yeah, I so remember I gave you
some ideas and this is one of them.
This was one of them. When you took this idea, did you
have to go back and do the research?
I did do some. Research.
I had all the dates already. Amy is taking over the show
later The Amy Krieger Show. I like it when Amy takes over
the show. No, I just, I had, I had already
written it down ahead of time. I just you didn't tell me which
option you were going with until late, OK?
For fairness, I did send out the topics so at least yesterday
morning. Yeah, that's not enough time for
me to read them. That was plenty of time for you
to read them. You even commented on them.
You were like, these are great topics.
That was Derek. No, no, I think I asked you.
I specifically asked you. She's on cold medicine.
She doesn't remember yesterday. Anyway, I have dates.
Not only do I have dates truer statement, but you just have
like very basic like pre whatever.
I have literally the exact. I love this for you and given
how much I talked in the last show, no you get to.
No, but I will help. With resale, Derek and Jeff and
I are just going to sit here and be flies on the wall.
Hey, you got your Switch, let's play some Mario Kart.
Why these idiots talk? I do.
I can run upstairs and grab it real quick.
I do think it's a good topic though, because I have noticed
more in the last five or six months than ever before that
people in our Facebook community have either had questions about
how some of this works or have made some big mistakes regarding
how this works. So I'm, I am glad that we're
we're. Well, Amy, take us through the
history because I think we first need to establish what are
resale restrictions and how they came about.
I don't even know where to start with that.
What? What are they?
OK, so. Good night ladies.
Right now, the reason, the reason that I, I gave this topic
was, you know, just to take a look.
I, I think a lot of times people get confused because we have a
lot of different types of members.
We have members that have had memberships for a long time.
We have members that just bought and you know 2025.
We have members that have owned since 20/16/2011 and, and
depending on your resale contract, if you own a resale
contract, depending on when you've bought it can determine
what sort of eligibility it has for different things.
Because as time has passed those restrictions, those, those
things have been more implemented, you know, as we've
gone. So yeah.
So there is a timeline. I almost, it would be cool when
you remember when you were in school and you have the made
like timelines for history class or science, social studies.
I kind of I'd like to see that visual up on the board.
That's that's your startle cue Paul to do that post production.
Graphics, Paul, but no so, so basically, you know, starting
clear and you know, we have people that and we, we always
use the term grandfathered in which basically means that if
you had it already, DVC has historically not taken it away
from you. They've grandfathered you into,
you know, what you had, but then starting fresh with anything
purchased, you know, after such and such date, then those
restrictions have gone into play.
So even as far back as you know, prior to 2011, anyone who bought
resale was just considered, you know, a buyer just like any
direct buyer. So those resale contracts had
all the same benefits, all the same perks that that anyone that
purchased through Disney received.
But then in 2011 is when we started seeing the first kind of
hints and they were, they were very small and they didn't
impact DVC and I think the way that they were hoping so.
And I always like to also establish in this conversation
the fact that when we talk about restrictions, they are contract
level restrictions. So there a lot of the confusion
that we sometimes see within, you know, this sphere is that
people think that, oh, I have that 150 point contract that it
is great. And you know, was pre 2011.
That means that any contract I buy forever, you know, is, is
going to, you know, be open-ended and going to like
just not have all of these issues.
But it is a very contract specific thing.
We'll even get into that later kind of as to how Amy and I's
membership is set up a little bit and decisions we'll make in
the future. But yeah, pre 2011, those were
the golden years of DVC. Those people have been in the
club now for quite some time and they don't have to worry about
it if they bought back then. Right.
So in 2011, they implemented the first restrictions.
It was limiting resale purchasers so that those
contracts that they were purchasing in 2011 and passed
were only able to have their points used at DVC resorts and
then also into the RCI exchange. RCI being the exchange program
being used instead of Interval International at that time.
So basically the only thing they took away in 2011 from resale
purchasers was the ability to exchange your points for things
like the Disney Collection and Disney Cruise Line.
Yeah. And those were things that most
members said, well, that that's not worth my money anyway.
Those are poor exchanges. So it didn't really have the
impact that DVC wanted. So then later down the the line
we come up with the next set of restrictions which happened in
2016. So any member who purchased
resale April 4th, 2016 or before that were grandfathered into the
direct purchase. But anyone that purchased after
April 4th, 2016, they had to then have a minimum of 25 direct
points in order to qualify for the benefits of being considered
a direct member. So that was like our first kind
of direct point minimum where you had to be some form of
direct owner. It was a very low minimum to
start with. And that's actually what the
minimum was when we started getting into DVC.
And I remember saying to Paul, you know, we had bought resale
and I was like, OK, we just need to save up for 25 points.
That's all we need 25 points so that we can we can have have
direct perks. Somehow we bought 50.
Yeah. Well, that was because we, we
bought before we closed on our membership or resale and 50 was
about. How quickly add on I?
Just. But yeah, it's true too.
How? Quickly things 25 points go to
50 go to 100 and then. Yeah.
So just because I'm curious where So Jeff and and Derek,
where were you guys when, when were your first contracts?
Well, I mean mine was I think we first bought in 90.
Stop playing my video game because now it's time for me.
I'm just kidding. Time to get back to work.
Mine was in 1998 was my very first one that we bought and
then we cancelled it a week later and then we bought again
in 1999. So 1999 was the was my first SO.
OK. But yours is direct.
You have Boardwalk direct, so you haven't really been affected
by. No, no.
But but I was a direct guide at the time when those changes
started to come out, you know, when they said, hey, yeah,
you've got to, you know, here's some reset restrictions.
You can't use points on a cruise you get.
But I mean, to me, you know, like in 2011 and whatnot, like
resale just still wasn't nearly the mammoth beast that it is
now. So it was so rare back then
when, you know, I was a direct at 2008, 2009, 2011, twelve.
I would say maybe one out of 20 guests, and I'm not kidding,
might have brought up, you know, the resale side of the IT was
not anywhere close to what it is, which is.
There. Everybody knows about it.
So I mean, back then and like you, you said, OK, so their
first line of defense was OK, so if you buy resale, you can't use
your DVC points for ways that are a terrible use of your God
darn it. Shucks, you know, And then so
OK, so it was a no brainer because I'm going to go buy 300
points resale and all I got to buy is 25 points and now I have
the quote UN quote perks. Yeah, that was crazy back then,
20, five points. Now you probably bought 50
because direct you can't finance 25, you have to finance 50.
So maybe that's why you went 50, because you needed to finance
it. Just my thought.
Yeah, that's true. I bought in 2020.
It was, I think I made my offer in August and it closed right
before Christmas was my first contract and then three more
came early 2021 and then in 2023 those three went away and I
system still have my direct contract and that's all I have
left. And we know, we know you bought
it all QS, but I'm just curious, were resale restrictions a
consideration at all in that buying process at that time?
It would have only affected if you were thinking about maybe
buying at Riviera I guess. They were.
That was something because I was trying to decide because I did
want some member benefits. So I did want a direct contract,
but I was absolutely not going to buy at Riviera because of
those restrictions, because mostly for the, the, the GAP
Insurance, so to speak. Like I, I didn't want to buy
something. And then like what truly
happened, I did have to, to get rid of a couple of contracts.
I would have lost my shorts on that situation, unlike Derek who
never wear shorts. But.
I actually was thinking about buying at Aulani for my direct
contract, but I already had my 1 resale old QS contract and the
guide said we've got some old QS points, we'll we'll sell those
to you. And that just made sense for me
because I like the idea of combining my points without
having to make a phone call. So I think it's interesting from
our perspective that you know, we bought kind of in between
that period before, you know, we're going to get into the the
2019 resale restrictions that came out here.
But we bought in that period between after kind of the
membership extras were removed in April of 20/20/16 from resale
buyers and before what we really know is resale restrictions
today. And yet it did have an impact on
us. We wanted that direct contract
because. Yeah.
So I was looking at the date. So we so we made our first
purchase. We started the resale process in
January of 2018 and the direct minimum increased from 25 points
to 75 points on February 25th of 2018.
So I do remember that we were they had made that announcement.
So they did give a warning, which is funny because it was
probably the one of the best sales pushes, you know, to begin
with that they had given. And I don't remember, Derek,
you, you were probably selling back then.
Do you remember how big of a warning they gave us?
Because Paul and I had enough time to purchase direct before
the minimum changed up to 75, but we had like a kerfuffle with
living in West Virginia and we had, we had enough time to work
it out and still make that purchase before that September
25th deadline. So I feel like we had a few
weeks maybe or less, but we did have a little time.
Yeah, yeah. I don't remember that one
specifically, but once we started talking about this, it
made me immediately think of the one that we're going to talk
about soon, which is when they said no Riviera beyond this
point, no resorts beyond this point.
Because I could, I could share, share the story now or I'll
share it later. But that was a huge one,
especially being over here at the DVC.
Yeah, it. Was crazy.
What was your last year as a direct guide?
What year were you 2? 1017.
OK. So that's yeah.
So you you had kind of did a lot of that.
Before we move on to 2019, Derek in, in 2017, you at least were
experiencing a little bit of people potentially choosing to
buy for those resale benefits or I guess for those direct
benefits at the time. Was that part, I mean, did you
get people calling? Was that part of the sales pitch
like? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. You would always meet people
like, Oh yeah, I have X amount of points and I'm resell
especially I think in that time I was on the cruise ship.
And so you'd have every member could come to a Disney Vacation
Club cruise ship member, celebration member meeting
because we want you to add more points.
But we'd sit down with a lot of people and and they would add on
points. Not for the specific promo that
we were talking about during the ship was it was basically I have
all my points on the resale market, but I want to buy 75
because I want to qualify perks. There's no discount, there's no
bells or whistle. They didn't care.
But they would come in and we would write a lot of 75 point
contracts just because they wanted to get their foot in the
door because that's the important thing.
And you know, I think we talked about it, used the phrase
grandfathered in and that's what I tell people now.
I'm like, listen, get in because any changes that I can't even
fathom what else they could possibly do at this point, But
any changes that happened once you're in, that door's closed.
Like they can't go back and change the rules for anybody
else. They can't go back and say, oh,
now resale members, from this point on, regardless if you
already have your points, you can only stay at your home
resort. We're making that change and
that is final. Like no one can do that.
So once you're in, you're in. So that's always what I try to
tell people now, especially on on the resale side, just get in,
you know, don't don't worry, just get in the door because
there's people that got on the door that can use their resale
points. There's people like you said,
that have direct benefits and they own 25 direct points.
There's people that use their points resale points at Riviera.
So, but that was a big one, that 2019 one that was, that was
crazy. So let's unpack that now.
What happened in 2019 that really changed the game of yeah,
resale restrictions? Yeah, so this was, this is the
biggest one obviously, and this is the one that we're still, you
know, we see the effects as each new resort comes online.
But January 19th, 2019. So basically Disney Vacation
Club said, OK, as of January 19th, 2019, if you purchase
resale at the original 14 resorts, then you are able yes,
to use those, those, you know, points at those original 14
resorts, But now you are restricted from using those
points at any new or future DVC resorts.
And then on the flip side of that, if you purchase resale at
a new or future DVC resort association, a new association,
it was starting with Riviera, which was in the process of
being built at that time, then your resale points are only
going to be good at that resort only.
So what that meant was if you bought the original 14, let's
say Grand Floridian, you resale, you could use those resale Grand
Floridian points at your home resort and at the seven month
window. You can use them at the other
original 14 resorts, which include you know what most of
you know, you know, Animal Kingdom, Milani Bay Lake Beach
Club. I'm not going to rattle all of
them off, but you could not use those Grand Floridian resale
points at Riviera or any new associations that came up.
And I'm using the word new association just because we had
like a little wrench thrown in called the island tower that
even though it's a new quote UN quote resort is that.
Is that part of the same association?
Became part of the same association as the existing
Polynesian the grandfathering it into the original 14 resort.
Out there. Anyways, so, so with that said,
you know, as we've had new resorts, so far it's been
Riviera, then the Disneyland Hotel, then Fort Wilderness.
Those resale at those three resorts, if you buy them, are
restricted to only that resort. So if you buy Fort Wilderness,
your restriction is just Fort Wilderness.
It was a common misconception among people that oh OK, if I'm
buying a new resort, I'm just going to be stuck at the new
resort. So like if I bought Riviera,
that means I'm just going to be able to use it at Riviera and
Fort Wilderness and Disneyland Hotel and anything that comes
new after that. No, that's not how it worked.
The new resorts are stricted to their resort only.
So that was a big, that was a big thing because, and it's a
big thing for, for not just resale purchasers, but for
direct purchasers. Because, you know, we talked
about that, that that GAP Insurance, you know, Aulani is
one thing. It's just because of how far
away it is. But now we have a beautiful
resort at Disney World that if you buy it direct and we see
people try to refinance Riviera contracts or tried to sell
Riviera contracts that they have had for a very short time.
And they purchased directly through Disney.
And they've, they're underwater because they have this huge gap
in value between, you know, what they purchased paid direct for
and what the value is resale wise because of those
restrictions. You very much have to view it
these days as driving that new car right off the lot.
Right, and you're losing value as soon as you take it off the.
Lot unless you hold that contract for a good 5 seven
years or. So you're using it and, you
know, if you're using it, you're loving it and and you're going
to have it for a long time. Not a big deal.
But you know, unfortunately life does happen and you just don't
know what's going to happen and when you might need to sell a
contract. And so, yeah, you just you, you
unfortunately you, you lose that value very quickly on those
resorts because of those restrictions.
So Derek, I've got down written. The date was January 19th.
I think that was the correct date when when the the resale
restrictions for for Riviera were announced and it changed
resale forever. Tell me yeah, I want I want the
full detail like the the the sleepless nights, the.
Million the story. Meetings that occurred right as
that news came out and kind of just how it shifted resale in
general. Well, it was kind of funny
because there is a story that goes with it is we remember
hearing about it, Nick, our CEO that started the company, the
brilliant Nick Cotton. All of a sudden Marissa and I
were talking because Nick, we had to have an emergency
meeting. This was probably a couple of
weeks prior to that, January 19th and nobody knew what this
quote UN quote, emergency meeting.
It was mandatory. It was like everybody's got to
meet. We got to meet in person.
This is huge. And we're like, Oh my God, what
is it? What's going on, blah, blah,
blah. That's when we were told and all
of us, you know, we're we're told, hey, you know what, this
is what's going to happen. We heard from Disney starting on
January 19th. Again, I want to say it was a
couple weeks notice. So you could probably go back
and it makes me want to go back to see how we communicated that
to people, which we did. I'm sure it was maybe a couple
of podcasts and maybe we did some, some blogs or whatnot
because the couple of weeks notice that Disney again was
kind enough. They didn't probably have to do
it, but they gave us a couple weeks notice.
It was like a free for all, as you can imagine.
It was for people working. You were working.
It was like once the news hit, it was the offers were coming
in, the phones were ringing off the hook, The live chat was
exploding. People were just wanting to get
in before that deadline, right? Because Disney was saying, OK,
you know what, as long as you got a signed contract, it's not
like it had to pass Roefer or anything else.
It was like, listen, as long as I think it was, as long as it
was submitted to Disney for Roefer and they stamp it prior
to that date, then you're good. And I remember working many of
shifts where it was you couldn't even keep up with people were
calling and I just want to buy something.
I don't even care what. Just tell me some points.
I don't even care. Like my gosh.
It was comical and we were going through like, okay, Oh my God,
it was this offer, this offer, this offer, because it was kind
of a mad dash and it was people going, I've been thinking about
it, it might as well do it. Now is the time.
So, yeah, it was one of those that we haven't had anything
like that obviously since because it was such a crazy.
It was crazy. I just remember seeing and
watching our e-mail inbox, which is where when people make
offers, offers will come in. Yeah, like this.
It was just like, like just constantly just people just
buying points. And it was because, again, those
are the people that got in and those are the people that have
their points that they could use at the Riviera and they could
use them at the future resorts. I know there's viewers out
there. I know there's listeners out
there that have. So let us know in the comments
if you were one of those people. But Amy, you nailed it on the
head. I think Disney had this idea,
like I'm sure they had meetings and it was this, this is what
we're going to do. We're going to put this
restriction on them and we're going to show them.
We're going to make it, you know, such a no brainer.
But what they want doing. And I don't know if they truly
thought about it. And Amy said it, you hurt the
people that buy direct from you because every day I have people
that reach out to me to sell their contract.
And if it's a Riviera, I know, I say to myself, I go, I bet you
they have a loan out on it. I bet you they do.
And I bet you they bought it for over $200 a point.
And we're going to tell them it's going to sell for like 120.
It's going to sell for 1:25 because they put the
restriction. And then you tell them and
Disney's not when you're buying with them back then and you're
buying the Riviera, you know, and signing your contract.
You want to make that process, you know, as easy and fun and
light as it possibly can be, you know, and it's OK, perfect.
Right here. Let's sign by Mickey and put
your date by the palm trees right there and the next page.
So when they get to that last page, you know, or so of that
contract that says, and when you go to sell your contract, the
new owner will only be able to use it there and nowhere else.
So if you can go ahead and sign there.
They gloss over that because I've had many conversations and
I still do to where they go, well, why is it so low?
Like Derek, I bought it for like 200 plus per point.
Like why is it low? And you try to explain to them
and then they go, well, I don't I don't remember that man.
Oh God, I probably wouldn't have bought it.
You know, I didn't realize that. That's why you know, the people
that buy the Riviera now, you know, there is kind of a happy
ending per SE as I say for those resorts is the people that love
those prices are folks that didn't make it into the deadline
but want Riviera members are able to get Riviera at
ridiculous prices. So they have their resale points
for the 14 and they will buy 50. They'll buy 100 ribs, they'll
buy A125150 whatever for it's just a couple nights or it's
every other year and they don't care about the use year.
So they're getting rib at, you know, over 100 bucks off less
per point new members. Again, those are the folks that
do do the research and you know, you're not going to want to be a
brand new member and buy a Riviera contract and only stay
at the Riviera. So I think that's where I'm very
curious to see how it's all going to shake out when all the
Riviera owners at 11 months and then all the resale owners that
can only use their points, what's the availability going to
look like when everybody's competing for that?
But yeah. That was absolutely what I, I
was just about to say is, you know, people complain about
getting in it to DVC it, you know, the busy times of the
year. I feel like they've limited
Riviera so much. And this will be the first one
that we can kind of use as a litmus test because, you know,
Disneyland isn't selling super well and the cabins they can't
give away. Aulani's been on sale since
1972. We're nearing the end.
Like Riviera is probably going to be sold out this year or
early next year. I think we all are pretty close
in agreement there. Yep.
There's too many people that can only stay there.
It doesn't spread everybody out. Kind of like we talked about in
the last show about having a safety valve for Lions and Parks
and being able to put people different places.
Like it's just going to be a mad dash on Riviera because that's
the only place people can use these points.
So I think they've done themselves a disservice.
It will, Yep. We'll see how loud the villagers
get when that really becomes the problem.
But you've you've already kind of heard some rumblings there
that it, it's harder to book than people thought it would be,
even though it's a it's a pretty large resort.
So I don't know. We'll see.
Yeah. And this mimics, you know, very,
very much what most of the other timeshare industry has done.
And I feel like that's the second time tonight I've said
that. So it's unfortunate, but you
know, it does. It is traditional timeshare is
used to this, you know, you buy a week at that specific resort
or property and you own that week at that specific resort or
property. So that's where some of this
mindset has come from with these restrictions, but we've changed,
you know, even with DVC leadership from where these
originally came from. But with the newer resorts we're
seeing, you know, Fort Wilderness continue the
restriction. It doesn't seem like anything
that they're getting rid of anytime soon.
But down the road, there are going to be a lot of questions
to be asked. And Jeff, as you said, Riviera
is going to be that first one that really kind of test this
product product. Derek, while you were giving
giving us the the history of of Disney Vacation Club back to the
1900s, I was pulling up the the blogs that were actually written
back when all of this was done by.
DVC resale market. Yeah, so the the specific blog
on the resale restrictions actually was updated in 2024 by
a gentleman named Paul Kraiger. Sounds like a goof, so I
wouldn't go back and read that personally.
But that was that was updated in 2024, but the the average price
blog that DVC resale market has been doing forever.
I actually write that blog at the beginning of every month
now. But back in 2019, I was not.
I actually believe that our Nick Cotton was was writing it back
at that time. But the most telling thing that
I, that I saw on that on that blog, it was from January of
2019 was the fact that DVC resale market sold over 400
contracts in a two week period. And I can only imagine how fast
your fingers were flying on the keyboard, Derek, which by the
way, someone, an audio listener picked up on your keyboard
clacking on one of our last, our last episodes.
Oh. That wasn't you.
I don't know if it was me or Derek.
I think it I thought it was Paul.
It could have been me. Yeah, I think that was Paul.
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
But anyhow like that, like I know the volumes that you know
resale market move 400 in two weeks, that is like unheard of.
So there was definitely an immediate market reaction to
this and. It was like, it was like, what
do you got left? You're like, you got any Bay
Lake? No, I got some Hilton Head.
Anybody want Hilton? It's like the old Stock Exchange
floor. Yeah.
I mean the, the the article kind of mentioned that for sellers it
was the perfect time to sell because you were getting full
price offers or above. And you know, people were yeah,
inventory was going out the door much quicker than it was coming
in just because everyone wanted to kind of lock in those
benefits. So I can only imagine if I were
a member at that time and I was looking to like, you know, well,
I. Wasn't we were we, we hadn't, we
didn't buy during that time because we didn't need to.
We had at that point in time we're talking 2019 we had, we
already had, we already had our in Kingdom, our Grandfa rating
contract or other animal Kingdom, our boardwalk.
So a majority of our points are grandfathered in prior to that
2019 change. But I will say it's a decision
that we've talked about several times where we've looked at like
the points that we've owned and questioned like.
It's stopped us from selling. Yeah.
If you know, we made the, the one mistake that we really made
that we look back on is that we bought in 160 point resale
Animal Kingdom contract. And then we did that 50 point
contract at Animal Kingdom also, which brought us up to 210 at
Animal Kingdom. And we almost look back at it
and go, I wish I had maybe bought the 50 direct at a
different resort just to kind of diversify a little bit more.
But then we always look at, you know, oh, what if you sold this
contractor that and it's like, well, those 160 points are they
they're non restricted. They they don't have any resell.
We. Sell them and then that 50 point
contract is what locks us in right now for our member
benefits. So why would we sell those?
So we almost view those now as like our lifer contracts that
we're like holding onto, which I'm sure a lot of other people
are in a similar boat that it, you know, bought before that,
bought before that period of time, so.
Yeah. Oh, I was going to say so.
So that was the big, that was like the big kind of bomb.
I feel like that the DVC dropped after that.
The the only real, real changes that we saw were we saw those
direct minimums increase. And so I think it's interesting,
you know, so the first one was February of 2018 when it
increased to 75 points. And then after that was when
when we saw that big, that big change that we were just talking
about. But then that same year in
September, September 17th, 2019, the direct minimum went up from
75 to 100. In October of October 19th of
2020, it went up to 125 points. And then June 3rd, 2021, it went
up to 150 points. So we saw an increase of 25
points every single year for four years from 2018 till 2021.
And it stayed at 150 for the last four, 4 1/2 years.
So I, I think that's interesting, you know, do we
ever think it's going to go back up from 150?
Yes, there's someone coughing. Yes.
It hasn't for for what, 4 1/2 years?
So I mean, it's just crazy to me that they haven't for that long.
100%, I guarantee. And I think I made a prediction
a couple of a couple of months ago and people are going to hold
me to it that I said. I think by the time in or around
Lakeshore Lodge, when it opens, I think it's gonna go up to like
175. But I think it will increase and
I think it will be around the time of Lakeshore Lodge A. 100%
I think there's a lot of excitement for Lakeshore Lodge,
so that seems plausible. Yeah, that that timeline tracks
that you were just talking about Amy, because I told you guys I'd
I'd bought in my my old Key West resell.
I remember the reason I pulled the trigger on my direct is
because they had announced the increase from 1:25 to 1:50.
And I. Was like it was right after that
first contract closed in October.
So yeah, yeah, that, that's. Exactly.
Yeah, that's 25 points. You know, that's, I mean that
literally did it for us. We bought 50 direct real quick
so that we didn't have to have 75 for the yeah, for the parks.
And then if you have that contract that you were
grandfathered in or so ours is a 50 point animal Kingdom, we have
those direct perks as long as we maintain and keep that 50 point
and we'll take them. Now, once that expires in 2057,
we lose those perks and then we're subject to whatever the
minimum is at the time. So that's something to consider,
especially if you, you know, let's say you got in, you know,
with the direct benefits and at the time it's, it's now what it
is, 150 points. And you got your direct benefits
by purchasing 50 points at Boardwalk, 50 points at Animal
Kingdom, 50 points at Polynesian.
Come 2042, you're going to lose 1/3 of what makes up your direct
benefits when that Boardwalk contract expires.
So then you are now subject to, if it changes to 175.
Once you lose that, you're subject to whatever the next
number is, if that makes sense. So then you in order to recoup
those benefits, now you have to get whatever it is.
So if it goes up to 175 like Derek's predicting, then so
that's something to keep in mind.
If you are spread out with different contracts, you know
what I mean? You have to maintain that number
if you're grandfathered in with those same contracts that you.
Had it's a broader question that I had kind of on our list for
tonight, which was what this future that we live in now with
resale restrictions looks like and how that impacts us
specifically once we hit 2042. Because I think there's broad
impacts that affect everyone at that point in time.
Come 2042, you have a lot of people, whether you are a
grandfathered person or not, whatever that case may be.
You have, what, 5 resorts, I think it is coming off offline
at that period of time if nothing happens, if not, if no
extensions are offered, if none of those things transpire.
Granted, we don't think, you know, we live in a reality where
we do not believe that those resorts will be extended.
But you also kind of find it hard to believe that five
resorts could be brought offline all at the same time, at least
three of them being at that. Well, almost four of them.
Yeah, four of them being at Walt Disney World.
Actually 3 1/2 resorts, 3 1/2 favorite Disney World I would
say. Yeah, it would be Beach Club.
Boardwalk Old key half. Of Old Key West.
Boulder Ridge. So yes, 3 1/2, we'll say half
and then is. Also going to be affected are
Hilton Head. And.
So the broader impact that that's going to have on
availability, the broader impact that that's going to have, you
know, availability for a lot of people are not issues at certain
resorts right now because they're using their points in
other places, but then you have to shuffle them back into using
their points at those specific resorts.
It's yeah, significantly changes.
Right. And so if you think about it, so
Copper Creek was the last of the original 14 resorts that when
you were buying. So if you're buying resale at
Copper Creek, it's like the last stand out because it's the
longest expiring. So Copper Creek expires in 26,
6068. Good.
Thank you, Derek. Also, I was 67.
I knew I was wrong. Yeah.
So in 2068. So if you own Carver Creek
resale, like, let's say you buy it right now, you're using it at
all the other resorts. You know, come 2042, you're
losing some resorts. Come 2054, you're losing
Saratoga, 2057, Animal Kingdom, so, so so forth and so forth.
By the time you get towards your last, like however many years of
Copper Creek, you are going to be down to like the wire.
Eventually you're going to be down to just Copper Creek.
So I think we're going to start seeing a shift in the DVC world
where we're going to have to have more like swapping with
people and things like that. I don't think we have that
landscape yet. If there's not a need for it and
it it's can be a challenge, but I think that that's going to.
Yeah. Well, and it also points to why
Copper Creek has held just such a historical, you know, good
economic view of of buying that especially especially on the
resale market. I know DVC resale market every
quarter or so does kind of the best economical resort to
purchase. And this is not a factor in it,
but I almost think it should be to a certain degree because at
the top of the list is Riviera at the moment, but Riviera is
put there's three asterisks right after Riviera.
So you can't even include it from the list, in my opinion,
because of how these resale restrictions are going to impact
it. But the top original resort
that's on that list and has been near the top for almost as long
as I've been looking at these is Copper Creek.
And it's mainly for financial reasons based off of years left
on the contract, the annual dues, all of that kind of stuff.
But you almost have to throw this in there.
You have to throw this wild card in there of the fact that those
people will at least have the longest usage of that contract
and, you know, potentially not be as impacted as some of these
other people. But it really like, I don't
know, at 2042 is going to be a very interesting year when it
comes to seeing this. And I think we'll kind of see
how the market reacts to it, you know, well, well before that.
We always say and, and, and as soon as you start talking about
2042 and then you say something, it makes my brain think about
something else. And then I say, Derek, just shut
up because we're going to go off on a 2042 tangent that will
literally take like an hour an hour because we know we know we
could do a show every single month on 2040 twos.
There's some of the most watched shows that we.
I posted a one year old show and it's it's the best show of the
year so far. And it was one year old.
And I even put it this disclaimer that said, hey, this
show's a year old because we took the holidays off.
But here you go. And everyone was like, yeah,
2014. So what we're going to be doing
is every show that you see from now on, we'll have the numbers
2042 in it regardless if we talk about it.
We're not. We're going to put 2042 in.
It it's like the new 6-7, huh 2014?
76 Seven. We had refrained it from that
and Eric did it. I don't even really know what it
is. All I got to say is I'm just so
glad I don't teach middle school anymore.
But I I had I did have a thought and then I lost it.
But wait, give me a. Second, no, we'll come back to
your thought in a minute. I, I'm asking myself this
question in my head and I'm going to ask Jeff it to Jeff.
Put yourself in the position of where you were when you first
considered DVC and imagine that that was today.
Given that today we know that the minimum is 150 points.
We understand what the resale restrictions are.
What would be the first purchase that you made?
And I'll let you think on it for a second because I have my
answer to the question. What I know is that I know two
things. If we had been in that position.
So if, if, if the day that Amy and I sat down and said we were
considering DVC, if we were in the financial position that we
were in at that point and DVC was what it is today within 150
point minimum. I don't think that we would have
been able to afford direct. That being said, if we were
further along in our careers and where we are right now, I would
honestly probably say that that 150 point direct contract would
be my first purchase. But it really depends on where
your financial situation is. But had we been in that
financial position, you know, I probably would have, you know,
today, but I would have bought 150 points.
But knowing where we were financially back when we did buy
DVCI, don't think direct would have even been an option.
We were scared away by 75 points.
We were very scared away by the cost of 75 points.
So I think we would have just gone resale at that time or
maybe just can the whole idea completely.
I'm I'm not quite sure what we would have done, but and then we
wouldn't be sitting here chatting with all you people on
the interwebs. It's a great question.
And you know what, I'm a little bit different than you guys in
that my minimum was 125 S at leap from 1:25 to 1:50.
However, 50-60 years probably wouldn't have deterred me a
great deal. I still wouldn't have bought at
a restricted resort though if it were.
If it were today I'd be looking at Poly or one of the sold out
resorts. Something like that.
But. And that changes the financial
gain even more like. What's that?
That changes the financial gain even more because then you're
looking at, you know potentially a resort that is even a higher
premium Poly the being the exception at this time, but.
Yeah. But having said that, I don't
know that the direct perks would have influenced me enough
because when I bought Tables in Wonderland was still a thing.
You know, there's a lot of things that have been taken away
since I bought my minimums. I also wasn't in a point to have
great friends like you guys that, you know, that we kind of
bounced off each other's points and got each other's into
Moonlight Magic and some of those kinds of things where I
was flying solo at the time. I just probably would have
resigned myself that Moonlight Magic was probably not going to
be in my future. And I'm just going to have to be
fine at Old Key West because I don't know that I would have the
direct perks would have made the difference for the.
Money, Yeah, yeah, I think financially speaking, that's
where we would have been to if it had been 150 points would
have been, hey, if we want to continue traveling to Disney as
much as we were at that time, which was several times a year,
then, you know, resale was our only opportunity at that time.
But it's it's weird playing The Time Machine game and and kind
of going back to to think to think through with that last
thoughts related to kind of where this is headed, the future
of resale restrictions and everything like that.
And I think I just want to go around the room real quick.
And if you, if you could give any advice to someone maybe
making a consideration right now on, on a contract, what would,
what would maybe that be? I, I go back, we, we talked on
our recent news show that we did about two weeks ago of our good
friend Gary. Gary was making basically this
decision on a, on a Disneyland Hotel contract between direct
and resale. He was trying to figure out, you
know, where are those where are those benefits of having the
having the he was considering Disneyland Hotel specifically
and so very relevant considering whether or not the ability to
have a direct contract. And those benefits and the
flexibility of using his points anywhere were more valuable than
the savings that he would receive via buying that
Disneyland Hotel contract resale with the mindset of knowing that
he would only ever be able to use those points at Disneyland
Hotel. So if you had someone like.
Yeah. So the thing that comes to my
mind is that it's OK to look ahead, but you can't look too
far into the future. You know, obviously it's
important with things like your retirement and stuff like that
when it comes to your happiness. And, and let's be honest, yeah,
a lot of people look at the finances and look at the numbers
in the spreadsheets. But Disney Vacation Club is an
emotional purchase just as much as it is financial.
You know, you are purchasing it to bring yourself, to bring your
family, your friends, whoever you're sharing it with
happiness. That's what traveling to Disney
is about. That's why you go.
So if you are too busy planning, oh, and 2042 I won't be able to
do this, this and this and 2057 I won't be able to do this, this
and this. And you're not focusing on the
next like 5-5 to 10 years or so instead, like, what's going to
make me happy now and how am I going to enjoy it within the
next like 5-10 years? Then I think you're doing it
wrong. Because if you're thinking too
far ahead and you're making decisions based off that, you
might not want it that far that long.
You know I'm going to be 70 by the time we lose our direct
benefits and I might want to live on a cruise ship the rest
of my life. She's not going to want to push
me around in a wheelchair through midnight Magic at.
That I mean, you just, you don't know what your family's going to
grow in, to grow out of. You don't know what is going to
change in those years. So, you know, buy it for the
now, buy it for the immediate 510 years because you just don't
know what's, you know, what Disney's gonna do in 20 years,
what what your family's gonna change, decide in 20 years.
So, yeah. So I wouldn't like think too too
far and worry too too far in the future because you want to be in
the present and enjoy it in the present.
And that's, that's a huge piece of advice for the number
crunchers out there, the spreadsheet warriors that look
into this, you know, you, when you, when you're kind of digging
into this, realize that, you know, look at your family today,
look at maybe the little one that you have, you know, how
quickly are they going to grow up and, and how much are you
going to maybe regret down the road that you didn't make that
decision based off of a number or something?
So. Right.
And that's that's even with when you're choosing, you know, if
you're like, oh, I just I keep thinking about the numbers and,
you know, in 10 years I need to be owning this resort.
But we really love being at Boardwalk and walking with our
kids over to Epcot. Then that's what's going to make
you happy. Now you know what I mean?
That's what you need to do. So but that's just, that's how I
feel. Jeff, what advice would you
give? I think the biggest advice I
would have is if you're going to be buying direct at one of these
restricted resorts, I, I would even say kind of like you guys
talked about early on where maybe splitting between a couple
of them and not having all 150 in that one resort.
Or if you do, I would be hesitant to finance that at
least long term just because like we've said, life happens
and you're immediately underwater in those contracts.
Like I think direct has its place, but I think if I were to
do it over again, I would buy several direct contracts with
smaller, smaller points in case something happened that I had,
yeah, I'm going to lose my direct points if I, if I offload
this 50 and it takes me below the 150.
But it's way better than being underwater in 150 point contract
because suddenly you're getting divorced or you have a death in
the family or God forbid, whatever happens.
That's the only thing that I can think I'm off the top of my head
is just with those restrictions. Just be cautious about how long
you're going to carry the financing on that particular on
that particular contract. Resale, Derek, bring us home.
Oh. Boy, yeah, there's, there's so
much to say, so much to unpack here that I'll promise I won't
take longer than 44 minutes. Yeah.
So you got to look at it just like, so if, if I'm going to
break down your question and just keep it simple and say, OK,
so if I'm listening to this show and I know I'm buying direct, if
I know I am, if I know those little temporary perks and
temporary discounts and the possibility of getting into a
mood that may, if that's important to you, then buy
direct. I would 100% just buy the
Polynesian. It's an absolute no brainer.
Don't buy a different resort. Don't buy one of the restricted
resorts. Just don't.
So if you're going to buy direct because those temporary perks
are important to you, buy the Polynesian.
Now, if you're going to do your research, like Amy said, which
is why we sold over $80 million last year, it's because on the
resale side, you get to pick the resort that you need.
You don't just have to buy the resort that Disney tells you
that you should buy. So like Amy said, and I cannot
stress this enough, I was just, you know, nodding my head
nonstop when when she's talking. The value of I don't care if it
expires in 2042. If you're someone out there that
loves boardwalk and loves beach Club, lifes too short to be
bummed out for the next 15 years or so because you can't get in,
don't do it. Don't buy a different resort
because I get quote UN quote more years or it's got cheaper
dues or it's got whatever it is. If you love those two particular
resorts, buy them because you know you're paying for the
ability to get in there verse buying a quote UN quote one with
a longer dues or it's got, you know, a cheaper price per point.
But at seven months, I'm going to go online tap, tap, tap and
all of a sudden the beach club is all booked again.
Oh well, and then another year goes by and another year goes by
and another year goes by and all of a sudden that child that you
had that was 5 or 6 years old, it's now it's 2042.
And maybe you didn't get to take those trips to your favorite
resort because you were worried about what's going to happen in
2042 or 2054 or 2057. My God, like Amy said and Paul
all the time and Jeff Disney doesn't even know what they're
going to be doing next year. So they don't know what's going
to happen in 2042. And that's where resale comes in
is that if you know you have a, a favorite resort, we say it,
everybody knows it. If you have a favorite resort,
buy where you want to stay. If you don't have a favorite, my
advice, buy Saratoga Springs got a great selection, you got a
great price per point. It's got great dues, goes until
2054, and you have access to all 14 of the original DVC resorts.
And it's important. And I want to stress that when
people think because I hear it all the time.
So if I buy resale, what, what website do I use?
You know, you're still using the same member website.
You don't buy resale and they send you to some dark web
bootleg website that you have to try to book your trip through.
You're using the same member website, same member phone
number. You're going to get the same
free parking, the same extra magic in the theme parks because
you're staying in a deluxe resort.
So those are my 3 parting tips. If you're going to buy direct
and you know you're going to buy a home, 150 points for whatever
reason by the Polynesian. If you're going to buy resale
and you have a favorite, meaning beach, club, boardwalk, buy
those resorts because life's too short.
And three, if you don't care where you want to stay and you
just want the best bang for the buck, I know that Copper Creek,
yes, economically, you know, in the long run, yes.
But overall Saratoga, my God, you can get for like 100 bucks a
point right now versus a copper is going to be maybe 1:40 or
1:50. So you can buy more points at
Saratoga, but regardless of whatever decision it is you
make, do your research. Reach out to us.
Y'all can reach out to me anytime, but reach out to us.
Watch these shows, post questions on the Facebook group
because that's what we're here for.
No one ever says I bought XXX and I'm sad because I actually
did too much research I. Learned too much?
I learned too much, my brain is too full right now.
I can't possibly learn anymore. I just want, I want everyone to
know that Derek's advice in that segment is is appropriate to all
aspects of life as he was talking about like.
Life being too short. Life.
Being too short, I'm sitting here just fluffing the crap out
of my dog's head who just who just came in the room and I'm
listening to Derek talk. And I'm like, we're getting
treats after this and we're getting toys and we're going to
walkies every day, multiple times a day and go to the park
and go to go swimming because life is too short.
So to be bummed out. Bummed out?
Treat yourself whether it's. Does anybody want a beach club
add on? Round yourself those words,
those words they have treat in. Yes, Jeff, that's an excellent
point. Well, I wasn't talking about
you. I know, that's why I wanted to
make sure you. Just wanted to make sure well,
we hope we answered all your questions related to resale
restrictions. If you have any more, as Derek
said, feel free to reach out to him, reach out to anyone, send a
message, keep comment on this show, ask us questions.
Join the DVC fan Facebook group. We're very supportive community
where if you're if you're thinking about buying, that's
the place for questions. You will, you will have people
that will answer your questions. You'll connect with other
members that have been in the same boat as you have been, have
have done the spreadsheets. They'll send you their
spreadsheets if you want. But you'll also hear very
heartfelt stories of kind of I think what our ultimate take
away is, which is, you know, book the trip, do the vacation,
live your life, have fun. We're all here for a short
period of time and we don't know when that might be over.
So let's just live it to its fullest and enjoy it while we're
here. But that's going to do it for
this week's episode of The DVC Show.
We hope you enjoyed it and we will see you next Monday.
Why is Derek's name over there Slim Shady?
Because when you sign in it says hello my name is and I have to
enter a name and so I go I'm shady.
I did that like 8 hours ago.