Have you ever had to make a really big change in your life?
Like starting a new job or ending a relationship?
Change and starting over is so freaking scary.
In this episode, we're going to be talking about how to start
over and how to manage the emotional highs and lows.
Today we're going to go through three powerful frameworks to
absolutely transform your lives and more importantly, your
mindset. The first is William Bridges
Transitions, the second is Carol Dweck's Growth Mindset, and the
third is Designing Your Life by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans.
At age 35 I totally restarted my career for the second time and I
broke off my engagement after an 8 year long relationship.
If you want the road map for a total life reset, you're in the
right place. I'm Cherie.
I'm Jean and we're. The Tiger sisters.
If you're feeling stuck at age 2936 or whatever age, this
episode is for you. And stick around because 15
minutes in the episode, we're going to drop a 5 minute
exercise inspired by Harvard psychologists that could totally
fast track your reinvention. And we'll be right back right
after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you
know that we now have merch on Sisters matcha.com.
We have sweatshirts and T-shirts that we designed ourselves.
Go check it out and please rate US five stars on Spotify and
Apple Podcasts. These ratings are so important
for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters
podcast. Thank you for your support and
we're back. So one of the reasons why we
want to talk about this topic is because transitions happen all
the time, especially when you're in your early 20s and 30s, I
would say when you're coming out of school.
So much of my identity, both professional and personal, was
built around my career, for better or for worse.
And when something big happens like a transition, I didn't
really have the tools to handle it.
So I'm so glad we're talking about this in this episode.
The first framework that we're going to be talking about is
William Bridges Transition Framework.
So William Bridges and his book Transitions says that change is
actually external. So that's something like
changing jobs while transition is actually an internal process.
So William Bridges actually outlines 3 stages.
There's ending neutral zone and new beginnings.
I really love this framework and especially how it names and like
titles each of the stages. So often people including me
will rush to the new beginning and not even process what just
happened, whether it's a career change, whether it's a change in
relationship or a friendship. I think for me, since I'm such
like I go go go type a person, I'm like, OK, how do I execute
and just do the next thing? Because honestly that's what
keeps me from processing like a lot of the like hurtful or bad
or sad emotions. But so much of it is staying in
the neutral zone, reflecting before starting in the new
beginning. What they wanted to do
throughout this episode in every section as we talk about each
framework, is actually give kind of personal anecdotes as like a
version of like case studies, kind of like how we did in our
earlier episodes where for the case studies we talked about
different companies or brands. This time we're going to talk
like use ourselves of the case studies.
So for me, for example, I've shared before that at age 35, I
ended my engagement after an 8 year long relationship.
So that obviously was the ending part of this framework.
And as I moved into the neutral zone, I felt like really lost in
a lot of ways because it wasn't just the ending of a
relationship. It was like the ending of the
entire sort of conception of my life.
And like all of the next steps of my life where obviously I was
going to get married, we were going to have kids, we were
going to, you know, live happily ever after together.
But only by actually being in and like slowly working through
the mire of the neutral zone was I finally able to emerge out to
the, the new beginning, which is like now, like this is my new
beginning. This is so, so different than
anything I've ever done before. But I don't think I ever would
have been able to arrive here had I not gone through the
process of like, being sort of like feeling stuck in the
neutral zone and like trying all these new different things,
which we'll talk about in the later frameworks.
And just like really being in it for sort of like quite what felt
like quite a while. It felt like a long time to me
because I'm also a really, I think, inherently impatient
person. But I think that's why the
neutral zone is so difficult. Because sometimes it can feel
like when you're in the neutral zone, not a lot is happening
day-to-day because like, you know, in my neutral zone, I'm
like journaling, I'm going to the gym.
Things feel slow. But when that compounds over
time, when you're like super reflective, I'm like, oh,
something worked, something happened, you know?
And OK, not not to forget that I also right before ending my
engagement had just left my job at Snapchat as head of product.
And that was after working at Snap for over 7 for seven years
and having worked in corporate for pretty much my entire
professional life. So it was like a big, it was
like multiple huge transitions and changes at the same time.
That's really scary. Yeah, it was scary, guys.
It was scary. And then I moved in, Yeah.
And we became roommates and we started this new venture
together. Yeah, new beginnings.
And we also want to give you another example of someone you
might have heard of, Steve Jobs. The Steve Jobs story is pretty
infamous. He was ousted by the board at
Apple. He basically lost control of his
company. He was kicked out.
And that was technically his ending, as the Lord goes.
He then spent years in the creative wilderness where it was
the neutral zone. He was reflecting and figuring
out his next moves. And then he triumphantly
returned to Apple, which was his new beginning.
It just underscores how the Neutral Zone can be a place for
fresh ideas and for setting you up for your next starting over
point. We also wanted to, in this
episode, give many exercises so that you could actually practice
the framework IRL. So the one for transitions is to
jot down 1 area of your life that you feel like there is an
impending ending or is like actually ending or has just
ended, and then write down how you feel about it.
And then next, write down one possibility that could bloom if
you actually fully embrace the neutral zone.
And we'd love to learn about what you guys write if you're
open to sharing with us in the comments.
After you finish this exercise, we'd love to hear from you in
the comments about your new possibilities.
And just a reminder, this transition framework can apply
to so many things. It can apply to career, romance,
friendship, basically anything. So it's a time for reflection.
And up next, we'll talk about Carol Dweck's growth mindset
framework. So I'm really excited to talk
about this topic. I read this book a long time ago
and Carol Dweck is actually a professor at Stanford, so I hold
this very close to my heart. In Carol Dweck's book, she talks
about two different types of mindset, a fixed mindset or a
growth mindset. And a fixed mindset is basically
believing within yourself. Either I'm good at something or
I'm not. A growth mindset is that I can
learn something and with enough effort and perseverance, I can
figure it out. And I think what's really
important to distinguish is that some people ironically are like,
oh, like I'm not a growth mindset person or I am a growth
mindset person. That actually goes against the
entire concept of growth mindset because you're not one person or
another. It's just a mindset.
So anybody, even if you previously had a fixed mindset,
you can adopt A growth mindset going forward.
So the growth mindset to adopt A growth mindset.
Yes, exactly. But that's just something that I
want to emphasize because like sometimes people are so like,
you know, like sort of like been in their ways for so long.
They've been in that fixed mindset for such a long time
that they almost couldn't imagine themselves being a
growth mindset person. But it's just a mindset shift.
It's not inherent to your being, you know what I mean?
People with growth mindset are able to push through obstacles,
whereas people with a more fixed mindset, when they're faced with
obstacles, they're like, oh God, this is just another reason why
you know XYZ can't happen. Like it feels like they're very
stuck and instead of seeing an obstacle as something that you
can like go around or figure out, it's just an obstacle in
their way. And so I felt a huge need to
develop a growth mindset, although I didn't have this
terminology for it in college. And I especially felt this when
I was studying computer science. And because I was able to, you
know, major in computer science, really tough it out and seek all
the resources and study and work my ass off for it.
I'm just like, I was able to do that.
I feel like I'm able to do anything now.
And it's like given me a growth mindset that like I can do hard
things. And it actually kind of even
more than that. I'm like, I did, that was like
the hardest thing of my life doing like, you know, all
nighters and studying it like it was a grueling major for me.
And I'm so happy I did it and I enjoyed it along the way.
But I'm like, if I can do that, I can basically do anything.
Yeah. And that is just like where my
growth mindset is like rooted so deeply in my body that I'm like,
any challenge, I can figure it out.
Yeah, you know, I so to that I think that having a growth
mindset is actually one of my like self identified most
defining factors actually, because I feel like if I hadn't
had a growth mindset, I never would have taken the path that I
did. Because even honestly, my first
job out of school working at Goldman, I took that job like
not even really knowing how to use Excel.
I swear to God, I, I swear I did not know how to use Excel except
for like we use it a few times in these statistics class, like
statistics and econometrics classes that I had to take.
But that's different like. Then it's different than
creating like a DCF model or something.
It's actually, it's different from actually using Excel in
like a workplace setting where you have to do it as fast as you
can and as accurately as you can.
So like I sort of like threw myself into the deep end and
like threw myself to the wolves in a way.
And I was able to eventually like learn, like to be clear, I
was never became like an Excel whiz.
I was never even in the top 50% of people who are like good at
using Excel at work, especially as an analyst.
But I was able to still be a very good top performing
analyst. And because I was able to like
do that, that's how I even had the courage to be like, hey,
yeah, like I'll be a product manager.
Like there are a lot like a lot of things I don't know about
product manager. Well, I don't know anything
about product management actually.
But I feel like I have the inherent skill to be able to
learn things quickly and work hard and try my best and like
all these, these other things so that like I will learn how to be
an excellent product manager, just like I learned how to be an
excellent financial analysts at Goldman Sachs.
And then like same thing for like everything in our lives,
even what we're doing now. Like I've never been in front of
the camera before. I've never like talked about my
personal life and my experiences or like shared my learnings with
people before. But I'm like, yeah, I can do it.
I don't know. I don't know.
Hope I'm doing a good job. Up to you.
Nice comments for Gene. We read every single one of
them. If you like Gene being on
camera, she's vulnerable. She's taking a lot of courage to
be here. We love that.
Yeah. I'm still new to those guys, but
but I was just like, sure, I'll do it.
Like I'll just throw myself into it and I think it'll be fun and
I'll be developing a new, a new skill and like a new side of
Maine. And it's been really fun and I'm
it's very rewarding. So I think all of that, like my
entire career, can be sort of chalked up to the fact that I
had a growth mindset that any of this stuff even happened.
Yeah. And also what we're working on
now with Sisters Matcha, our Matcha brand that we started
like last July, August, Like we have only worked in like digital
products for our professional careers, right.
So like we are product managers at tech companies, but now we
have AC APG company, a consumer packaged good.
It's like a physical thing that we're selling and it's also a
consumable, which is so different from.
That so wild, so crazy wild to me.
And also so fun it's. So fun, yeah.
If you if what we're saying kind of resonates with you and you're
like, you like challenges and you like learning, then like a
growth mindset is a great thing to adopt so that you
continuously learn more and also learn faster.
Like in this last year, we're doing completely new things and
I'm having the time of my life. It is so fun.
And it's so scary too. Like on the other side of it,
it's just like, holy crap, I'm doing things I've never done
before. I don't know if I'm doing it
right. Yeah, I don't know if I'm doing
like. A good job.
We don't know anyone in the industry to like, help us.
Like we're kind of just like figuring it out.
Like you know how people are saying you're like building the
airplane and flying it as you go.
It's kind of what we're doing. But also like.
I like it. In addition to like, not
knowing, I'm also trying my hardest and because I believe in
it and love it so much that like, I can try my hardest and
give 120% with no regrets, you know what I mean?
Because we're working for ourselves.
I wouldn't give 120% if I were working for the man, but you
know what I mean? Like, I just wouldn't care as
much. So I guess with the growth
mindset, it's just like fulfilling so much of what I
care about. And I'm so excited to have a
growth mindset too. Yeah.
And I guess the last thing I'll say on a more personal note,
when I am looking for a partner and like in dating someone
romantically, I. We do say our podcast is about
money, power and love. Yes.
And so this is the love component.
I will only be with a person if they have a growth mindset like
they, because a growth mindset is important for work.
That's kind of what we're talking about, but it's also so
important for relationships Instead of someone being like
this is who like if we fight or get into an argument like this
is who I am, blah, blah, blah. Like don't try to change me.
Like I'm not trying to change anyone, but we should be able to
grow together. If we're like going to be a
pair, we need to be able to move in the same direction.
And that can mean both of us being flexible and growing and
learning together. I.
Totally agree. Because aside from the aspect
where you're, I don't know, like if you're in an argument or
something with someone who has a fixed versus growth mindset, I
think it's just like your everyday interactions with
someone. I feel like it's almost kind of
like a person who is a default no versus a person who's like
default yes. Yeah.
Right. Like or even.
Just like a default, maybe like, you know what I mean?
Just like not a hard no, yeah, which is just more fun to live
that way. Yeah, like I recently.
Should I tell a personal story? Oh my God, I'm scared.
I'm like terrified. I don't know what's going to
come out of your mouth. OK, if it's not good we can cut
it but no this is just random. I recently was supposed to go to
this Broadway rave with my girlfriend who loves Broadway.
As one does. With Broadway and we like found
this Broadway rave. So we were like lol like this is
hilarious. And then my other friend was
supposed to come. She couldn't come at the last
minute. So I was going to go from a date
to this Broadway rave. But since we had this extra
ticket, I just asked my date. I was like, hey, like, do you
want to come to this Broadway rave with me?
And like, this is not a person who I think has, like, ever,
like, not a Broadway person, not a theater person at all.
And he was just like, yeah, sure, yeah, that'll be fun.
And then he went, and he had like the time of his life.
Is that growth mindset or does he just like you?
Or does he just want to spend more time with you?
I thought it was gross mindset. Well, I'm glad.
Maybe it's a combination? It's a combination of both and.
Wow my long accent is coming out for some reason because I'm
embarrassed. It's a combination and I'm glad
you told that story 'cause that was a safe story.
I didn't know what I really. Didn't know.
What stories did you think I was gonna tell?
We won't go there, should we? Keep it in.
Should we keep this? In that's for subscribers only.
Just kidding, we don't have a subscription service.
But anyway. Should we?
I I wanted to say on the love part, another personal anecdote
is that I have two friends who are married and they were
telling me more about their relationship.
And a mantra that like they share is they ask each other
after a long day, they both work, they ask each other like,
how can I love you better? Whoa, yes, yes.
Who they? Me later.
Beep and beep. And they're like, you know,
happily married, recently married, but like that's
something that's been a fixture of their relationship is that
they ask each other that. And I love the story or just
even that mantra because like I aspire to have a relationship
like that where it's so rooted in growth and like, how can I be
better? Not that I'm doing anything
wrong, but I just want to like continually grow and be better
and like, love you better. I think that's a very beautiful
thing. It's so intentional it.
Is I want that? I want that for me.
She's, yeah. She wants the book.
She wants the, you know, you know, Yeah.
Yeah. Like how?
Can I love you better every day? How can I love you better every
day? Don't answer that.
OK. And before we move on to the
next framework, just a really quick mini exercise for you guys
to do is 1, identify a limiting belief that you have and then
two, rewrite it with a growth mindset approach.
So an example of this, we talked about it in one of our previous
episodes, but I learned this at Stanford and it's basically
manifestation but better. One of our, one of my
professors, Joel Peterson, he has these mantras and they were
based off of his previous limiting beliefs.
So for example, one of his limiting beliefs is that he
thought he was a very emotional person, like he let his emotions
get the best of him sometimes. So he turned that around and
instead of having his emotions control him, his new mantra or
what he, you know, how he talks to himself as he says, I am not
my emotions. So that's just one very quick
example of a limiting belief that you might have and one way
to turn it on its head. Now try the exercise on your
own. And let us know in the comments
what you write down. I feel like a.
Teacher the last framework we're going to talk about today is a
concept popularized by Stanford called design thinking.
This framework, called Designing Your Life, helps you cut wasted
time by allowing you to quickly test your ideas.
They have a book and also a class at Stanford where they
teach this to students. I didn't get the chance to take
the class at Stanford, but many of my friends did, and the four
parts of this framework are as follows.
The first is curiosity, the second is prototyping
experiences, the third is reframing problems, and the 4th
is radical collaboration. So this framework emphasizes
action and taking small experiments over, like endless
thought exercises and pondering. So one way I applied this
framework in my own life is that after I finally left Snap after
working there for seven years, I wanted to try out a bunch of
different things that basically I'd never done in my life.
Like I was kind of trying to figure out what I want to do
next before I decided to start this company with Cherie Sisters
Worldwide. And one thing that I have always
loved is fashion. And like basically at every
point in my life where I could do like take on a job or like a
new career before, aside from the job that I actually ended up
doing, I looked at many different like roles in fashion.
So finally I had this opportunity to like work in
fashion. So what I ended up doing is I
took this unpaid internship where I worked at a place called
the Albright Fashion Library and in LA where I actually worked as
a stylist. And it was like one of the most
fun and like fulfilling things I've ever done.
And it's not like it was like particularly glamorous.
Like I feel like, you know, 20% of the time my job was to like
rearrange the like massive shoe closet.
So like, it's not like I was, you know, like doing like a
super high-powered like job at, you know, a Parisian couture
house or something like that. But it was just so fun to be
able to like be in the industry and finally test out this
hypothesis that I had had for like 20 something years of like,
do I actually want to work in the fashion industry or do I
just want to be, you know, like a participant through sort of
like consumption and enjoying it.
So that was something where, yeah, like, I've basically like
invented this internship for myself where I worked there one
day a week for the whole day. It shows to me how action
oriented you are and kind of to tie together this framework with
the first framework that we talked about with transitions.
I think it's really important that after doing some reflection
and you know, you're in the neutral zone, figuring out what
you want to do next, you were able to test out this new
beginning with an internship. It was like a mini test to see
if you liked it or not and to see, you know, what your next
moves would be after you gather information from the external
world. So I think it's so cool that you
were able to, you know, reflect and then figure out your next
moves. Yeah.
And then also like create this opportunity for myself.
A lot of people in general, I think feel very paralyzed.
I know I often do if like I'm stuck and I'm like, I don't know
what to do next. So that like having this design
thinking framework allows you to break out of the paralysis and
be like, let me at least test something and try something
because I know with the growth mindset, I will learn some thing
no matter if it goes well or not.
I might fail and that's fine, but that means I'm learning.
Yeah, I love how you tie those mindsets together.
That's very nice. Thank you.
Well done. Brava.
Okay, so now it's time for the mini exercise.
So the mini exercise for this is to think about an area that you
want to pivot. And then next brainstorm 2
experiments you can do. They can be like really, really
tiny experiments. They don't have to be massive,
but think about two experiments that you can do to actually test
out the pivot. And if you want, you can share
your pivot or you can share your experiment in the comments so
that you can have some social accountability.
We'll be reading them, Yeah, and if you leave a comment about it,
I we will read them and respond to them.
Oh yeah. So should we wrap up, Cherie?
Yes, we should. To wrap up, we talked about 3
frameworks today. One, the William Bridges
Transition Framework, 2, Carol Dweck's Growth Mindset framework
and three, Bill Burnett and Dave Evans Design Your Life
Framework. So you can think about these
individually or you can try and combine them, but we hope this
was really helpful for you guys. Yeah, and if you found this
helpful, help us reach 1,000,000 by sharing this with your
friends. And also obviously, like,
comment and subscribe and rate US five stars on Apple Podcasts
and Spotify. It's a long list, but you know,
you can do all of them. We believe in you.
Thank you guys so much for supporting our podcast and for
tuning in. We'll see you next time.
Bye. Hey everyone, quick break to
share something special. Sisters Matcha.
We've launched limited batches of ceremonial grade single
estate single cultivar matcha straight from the family farm
Sheree worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and
crafted with intention. Head to Sisters matcha.com to
grab yours before it sells out. Make Matcha your daily ritual
for lasting energy and focus.