1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,240 I feel like I'm like, totally naked in front of you. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:04,840 I feel like, but in a good way, yeah. 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,880 I hear you. We have become so habitualized 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,360 to living B plus lives. I mean, I think I was living AB 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,360 plus life and I didn't realize it because there were so many 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,080 aspects of it that from the outside looked like an A or an A 7 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:18,440 plus. Life. 8 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,040 You would have been around 45 and one day you would have been 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,240 found yourself in your car crying uncontrollably and you 10 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:25,360 would have said what have I done? 11 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,720 Sometimes the outside world is the one confirming to us our 12 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,640 life is perfect and we know inside and we've got like this 13 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,240 kind of, we know how much we are actually living the life we 14 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,560 want. We know because when we're 15 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,640 living it, we feel exquisitely alive. 16 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,480 And so it usually is a crisis where people are fired or go 17 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:45,080 through a divorce or have a breakup of some kind of, and 18 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:46,760 they'll say, wait, OK, I can't take it anymore. 19 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,120 That's, I mean, look, there's four things that destroy you 20 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,040 living your own life, or I call them the four Horsemen of dream 21 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,360 destruction, but it captures these things. 22 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,840 It captures self-care, recreation, pleasure and sex. 23 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,040 Susie, welcome to Tiger Sisters. So happy to be here. 24 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,240 We're so excited. So Susie Welch has lived a dozen 25 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,440 chapters. Editor in chief of Harvard 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,360 Business Review, best selling author, professor at NYU Stern, 27 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,240 and podcast host. Her hit course and new book, 28 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,640 Becoming You, have become a movement pushing people to face 29 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,200 the hardest question there is. Are you really living your own 30 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,160 life or living through someone else's script? 31 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,960 May I say that becoming you, the question it actually answers is 32 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,480 what should I do with my life? Which it leads you to ask, is 33 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,800 the life I have right now the life I want? 34 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,200 So it's all the really easy, fun questions. 35 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,480 Yeah, Right. This is a flight day of public 36 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,040 kind of conversation. Yeah, Yeah. 37 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,440 There's more. OK, so Doctor Susie Welch. 38 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,200 Yes, that's right. Doctor has spent her entire 39 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,960 career cutting through the myths about money, power and love to 40 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,200 help people live their lives with purpose. 41 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,800 And also, we were. We've been playing it cool since 42 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,000 the beginning. But we're truly fans of yours, I 43 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:07,680 guess. Really. 44 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,560 Love everything you. Do we think you're so fabulous 45 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,280 and we want to be you And I also want to get my PhD and I'm so 46 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:17,840 like, there's just some OK, all right, all right, well. 47 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,360 It's a mutual fan club right here, right? 48 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,680 Big love in. And so in becoming you, you 49 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,400 introduce the value bridge and it's a framework that you've 50 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,200 developed that helps you figure out who we are and what we want 51 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,520 to do. And so we've shared our values 52 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,160 bridge results with you. We've taken the test and please 53 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,560 be honest. What is wrong with us and what 54 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,360 is the thing you understand about what is right? 55 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,040 Right, I know I can't wait to do this. 56 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,880 I mean, there's it's you have very exciting results, very 57 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,360 interesting. I was a little taken aback by 58 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,720 your results. And so we will go deep, deep 59 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,520 dive into them. So the class I teach becoming 60 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,840 you excavates three data sets, your values, your aptitudes and 61 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,240 your economically viable interests because you need all 62 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,440 of that data to synthesize and then come out with your purpose 63 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,680 in in the class in one semester, the wait list was 800 students. 64 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,360 And so it was and now I and now I took it in mega sections 65 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:14,200 because who is, if you can find for me the one person who 66 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,680 doesn't ask the question, wait, what should I do with my life? 67 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,600 Or is this the right thing? I don't know where that person 68 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,200 is. So I put together a great team 69 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,240 of engineers. It's like a matricians and 70 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,920 developers and we created this tool, the values Bridge, which 71 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:29,960 rank orders your values from 1 to 16 and it tells you which 72 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,960 values you hold and how much you're living them. 73 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,240 Yeah. So we call that gap the 74 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,120 authenticity gap. And So what I have now in front 75 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,080 of me is the list of your values from 1 to 16 and how much you're 76 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,400 actually living them. I think that I was a little bit 77 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,240 surprised by the difference in your values. 78 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:48,640 So should we do it? Yeah. 79 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:49,400 OK, let's. Dive. 80 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,840 In and also just. I feel like I'm like totally 81 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,800 naked in front of you. I feel like. 82 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,320 But in a good way, yeah. I hear you. 83 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,840 I hear you that there is this moment. 84 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,800 And so you're wonderful to go ahead and do it here on the 85 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,880 podcast. But you know, part of what 86 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,200 you're doing yourselves is you're allowing people to be 87 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,440 vulnerable and listening to you and you talk about all the 88 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,520 really big stuff. So it's not just young people 89 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,200 who are going through it. I mean, there's people 40-50 90 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,040 years old who are sitting there saying, whose life did I just 91 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:15,880 live? Yeah. 92 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,040 OK. So that's into it. 93 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,040 It's let's do it. This is office hours. 94 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:21,480 Actually, it is. I'm psych. 95 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,640 I love it. All right, Cheri, we'll start 96 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:24,440 with you. OK. 97 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,760 OK, so your number one value is something that we call radius. 98 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,760 And this is a value that reflects how much you want to 99 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,360 change the world, how much you want to have systemic change. 100 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,240 When I have in class students who present is what we would 101 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,760 call social justice warriors, they always are #1 on radius. 102 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,520 I have a daughter who's an artist and an animal rights 103 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,240 activist. She's number one on radius. 104 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,400 And so, and thank God the man that she's about to marry is 105 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,880 also that because this, if you have this value and you are 106 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,280 marrying somebody who does not have it, I, I wish you well 107 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,480 because this is a very strongly presenting value. 108 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,520 So there's something in you that seeks systemic change. 109 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,760 You're not satisfied with things staying the way they are. 110 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,760 You have a, a dream of in some way changing the world. 111 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:09,480 Does that feel real to you? It does. 112 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,320 I've been called a dreamer and actually there was a conflict my 113 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,560 my boyfriend when I was in my early 20s. 114 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,560 We both worked at the same company, but we had different 115 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,760 views on how to approach our life. 116 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,080 I was like, I have such a big dream of things I want to do 117 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,640 through my career, create impact. 118 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:27,880 And he's like, would you just be happy? 119 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,720 Like living in the suburbs with just like a plain house and a 120 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,720 dog? And there was so much derision 121 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,920 in that comment, but I'm like what's wrong with what I want to 122 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,600 do? And I hope you are not still 123 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:37,920 with this person. I'm not. 124 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,480 I'm not. God is all I can say. 125 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,760 I mean, and that's why I said that this value is so strong in 126 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,440 how it drives, how we live and work, that if you do not share 127 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,320 it with a partner. So I should point out that the 128 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,280 values bridge the test itself has a functionality that if 129 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:54,600 another person takes it and you both check a box, your values 130 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,760 will come up next to each other and it will give you a conflict 131 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,560 or harmony score. So you and this young man would 132 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,680 have had like a like 100% conflict on it. 133 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,800 And I think when my daughter and her fiance took it, they're 134 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,320 like, mom, you're home, come talk to us about our results. 135 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,080 And as I was walking towards them, because the wedding's 136 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,960 already planned, I was like, please, God, I pray to you. 137 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,440 And they had, thank God, their top six values. 138 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:16,200 Oh my. God. 139 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,160 Yes, I like almost wept from now look, I I would have been 140 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,080 shocked if they weren't. They're essentially the same 141 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,280 human being. So, all right, so. 142 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,680 And I, I do think that her value of radius comes through very 143 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,160 clearly actually in Tiger Sisters and is the core mission 144 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,360 in Tiger Sisters. And a big reason why we're doing 145 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,840 what we're doing is very much driven by her number one core 146 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:39,600 value and radius. I want to say two things. 1 is, 147 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,160 I think you're exactly right because you could have done 148 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,520 anything you could have done. You could have been a product 149 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,680 manager. There's a million jobs, and you 150 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,840 took the job which had high risk, right? 151 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:53,840 You did start up but had the potential for the most impact. 152 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,200 Now, radius is also a high value of yours. 153 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,400 It's #5 so that's still a core value of yours. 154 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,640 It's still very high. It's not as high as your 155 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,640 sisters, but luckily, because you're working together, I'm 156 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,080 very happy that you both have radius high up. 157 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,760 OK, All right, all right. So your second value is 158 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,800 achievement, which is the desire to have success that other 159 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,200 people can see. Now really interestingly, this 160 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,280 makes you different than many people of your generation, 161 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,920 because typically for people, how old are you? 162 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:21,560 I'm 30. OK, Gen. 163 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,480 Z, for instance, is hopping off at age 26. 164 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,000 Achievement as a value is number 11. 165 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,200 And so I have achievement as #2 as well. 166 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,800 And this is the desire to have accomplishments and success that 167 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,440 other people can see. Either that's in you or it's 168 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,480 not. And when I talk about 169 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:37,880 achievement, a lot of time with my Gen. 170 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,200 Z students, they're like, who needs that? 171 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,960 And I'm like, I don't know, my whole generation did, but I was 172 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,800 like, but I think actually it's skews at business schools quite 173 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,480 high. I think Business School select 174 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:48,560 for it. Let's see where achievement is 175 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,240 for you. It's #4 OK, so you are both very 176 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,400 high on achievement. And thus the name Tiger Sisters. 177 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,480 So I'm very excited about that. So very. 178 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,160 Now we come to one of the most controversial talked about 179 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,640 values and this is a value that we that I had to use a Greek 180 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,920 name for because it sets people's heads on fire. 181 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,040 So the value, we call it eudaimonia in Greek, it means 182 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,600 flourishing, but it captures these things. 183 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:19,080 It captures self-care, recreation, pleasure, and sex. 184 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,840 OK, so pick from any of those. They all track together and you 185 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,240 have it as #3 So for core value for you, there is this desire 186 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,400 for, I don't know if it's self-care or if it's fun or 187 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,320 recreation or which one of it does those parts. 188 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,039 It is. Does that resonate for you? 189 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,880 It does, yeah. And I saw that it's in conflict 190 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,600 with my desire to achieve and to have. 191 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,559 Affluence which comes next so wait, let's see where eudaimonia 192 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,080 is for you now. Actually, I will say that you're 193 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,280 out. Your eudaimonia was lower. 194 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:52,080 It was at 8 in the middle. And for me it's #15 so I have 195 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,600 like, and I'll tell you this about the whole one of the 196 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,280 beautiful things in my opinion about the values bridges. 197 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,680 It allows us to talk about people's values without any 198 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:02,920 judgement. You know, these are values and 199 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,480 you can be higher on them or lower on them and their choices 200 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,920 with consequences. And so when I tell people like, 201 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,280 well, you pneumonia is number 15 for me, it's like, what's wrong 202 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,600 with it? And it's like, well, my joy is 203 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,080 in my work and my achievement. And so I don't, I don't 204 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,720 necessarily like want to like I don't even know what self-care 205 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,120 is. Of course, generationally that's 206 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,000 like, maybe my self-care is in my dogs, like the amount of fun 207 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,760 I have with my dogs. I think it is also a 208 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,240 generational like reflection of us because I think like her 209 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,720 generation, she's on the cusp of Gen. 210 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,600 Z, She's a Zelenio. Like they're all about self-care 211 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,080 and they're like work life balance is really important 212 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,680 versus like, I feel like I went up through the, you know, 213 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,280 investment banking, like finance world where it was like, you 214 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,440 have to put like those things on the wayside in order to actually 215 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,640 be successful at achievement or all those other things. 216 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,200 And. This came for you, right, which 217 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,040 is, look, my students and many, many people take the values 218 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,080 bridge and they get as top value eudaimonia and then right after 219 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,040 they get affluence or achievement and then they're 220 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,480 like that's the reason for the O feeling because those are those 221 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,800 are in conflict with each other. And so you definitely look, the 222 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,800 test is going to tell you where you've got your conflicts and 223 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,200 your harmonies. Eudaimonia for you is 3. 224 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,920 It's not #1 and for it's, it's 8, then we have affluence, which 225 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,600 is the desire to have wealth. And I think again, there's a 226 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,960 little stink off of this in the world, right? 227 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,440 But why this is a choice. And if you're not hurting 228 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,880 anybody, it's your value. I mean, I've plenty of students 229 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,720 who have it is number 1 and it's high for me as well. 230 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,880 And it, I think there's no harm in it. 231 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,920 Sometimes people want affluence because they have it, it, it 232 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,280 feeds another value. Yeah, like beholders and which 233 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,440 we're about to come to because that was your number one value. 234 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,600 And we'll talk about it. We both have affluence in the 235 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,120 top five. And then we have for you Sherry 236 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,400 voice, which is the desire for authentic self-expression. 237 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:54,920 It's like that. I want to be me. 238 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,160 I want to self express. I don't want to be in a culture 239 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,240 or an environment where I can't let my whole self be present. 240 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,720 And again, this is for Gen. Z, the number 2 value. 241 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:10,640 So for you, voice is it's down at 10, which suggests to me that 242 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,320 you have more comfort around fitting in to organizational 243 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:20,000 cultures and to leaving some of your authentic self-expression 244 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,760 not aside but to your private time. 245 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,240 Like you don't feel the need. People who have high voice want 246 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,880 to be themselves all the time. People with lower voice are 247 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,200 like, look, there's a time where I can be myself and it's when 248 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,920 I'm. Well, I feel like I've had to do 249 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,320 that my whole life in order to succeed, in order to, like, get 250 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,000 where I am now. Versus like Cherie, ever since 251 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,440 she was very, very young, she was always like a superstar. 252 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,840 And she's always been even among supported. 253 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,080 Yeah, she's like the the younger sister. 254 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,880 She's the youngest cousin. She's always the superstar. 255 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:51,960 Like, I don't know how else to say it. 256 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,040 She has star power. And it was always, she always 257 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,360 expressed her voice. That's right. 258 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,720 It was very much appreciated and loved and I think. 259 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,520 Yeah, well, there's the, you know, there's the interesting 260 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,360 comment. Because what I often see, 261 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,160 especially with young women, women up until sort of the 40s, 262 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,080 is they can have quite high voice, but their authenticity 263 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,280 gap is massive. So they can have voices, number 264 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,840 one. And the authenticity gap is 98%, 265 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,000 meaning they want to do it and they can't. 266 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,640 And I had a student come to a lot of times just crying, saying 267 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,080 look at this. And she showed me her results 268 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,000 and voice was #1 authenticity gap like 9899%. 269 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,640 And she said, I wish you could teach a class about how we can 270 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,720 do this, how we can be ourselves. 271 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,760 I don't even know how to do it. My culture has taken this 272 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,200 ability away from me. And I said that I love the idea 273 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,160 of a class on that. That's not, I can't teach that. 274 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,880 That's not my area of expertise. But I cheer you on. 275 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,320 Well. I think so much of it is 276 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,600 environmental to. And so when you say culture, my 277 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,760 first thought was like work culture, like the work culture 278 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,400 that Jean grew up in was basically, as she explained, it 279 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,520 was pretty much to stifle yourself for the bottom line. 280 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:06,600 Whereas we're growing up being raised in a tech company as my 281 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,360 first job, it was very much like, be yourself, right? 282 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,120 And we also had like one day off a month to, for you pneumonia, 283 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,200 right? To like, you know, explore 284 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,360 something about yourself outside of work. 285 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:19,600 People who have very high achievement, very high affluence 286 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,840 go into investment banking and they have voice very low and 287 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,520 they don't care if you have very high voice, you know, Goldman 288 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,760 Sachs is going to be a different kind of fit for you. 289 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,960 And so this is 1. So there's many, many good 290 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,080 reasons to know your values. One is to have this very candid 291 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,880 conversation with yourself about whether you're living them and 292 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,400 and if not, whose values you are living. 293 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,800 And then the second reason is to say, am I working in the right 294 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,280 place? Am I going to last here? 295 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,920 Because if you don't have, if you have a mismatch on values 296 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,880 with your organization, you just go to work every day in a suit 297 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,240 that's three sizes too small and it stinks. 298 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,720 Yeah, well, let's talk about beauty for a second. 299 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,120 Because it's your top value. It's. 300 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:56,880 Her top value and she's embarrassed by it. 301 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,280 Yes, I always know. So here's. 302 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,200 What I say OK, I just feel like I have to explain it. 303 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,480 Now let's talk about it for a second. 304 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,160 First of all, a lot of people have this value. 305 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,680 It's one of the oldest identified values by scholars. 306 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,400 We call it beholderism. It it is the value that reflects 307 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,200 how much you care about how things look, including yourself. 308 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,000 I always say that when people find out that this is their top 309 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,880 value that they need to go into support group. 310 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,960 OK. And so a many, many. 311 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,320 I've done this work with many influencers because my life 312 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,280 brings me into to contact with a lot of influencers. 313 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,080 For almost every influencer, it's the top value. 314 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,360 And I'm not surprised because there's something very visual 315 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,360 about being an influencer that how things look and sound. 316 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,600 I will say that to go deeper than that, Beholder ISM is often 317 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,680 a proxy for desiring harmony. OK, you want things to look 318 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,880 beautiful. And my feeling about that is 319 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,000 there's not very much we can control in this world. 320 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,000 Not very much we can control, but we can control our 321 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,800 environment and we can control ourselves. 322 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:51,800 And I often think that's reflected in High Beholder 323 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,080 olderism. Now, I don't know where your 324 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,080 olderism is coming from. I think that's so. 325 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,440 True, you, you look beautiful, so that's part of it. 326 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,320 But this desire that things should have a certain harmony, 327 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,360 that the world just works better when things are, you know, 328 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:10,040 elevated. I mean, there used to be a store 329 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,320 in New York's that that sort of just beautiful interior designs. 330 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,640 And I used to call it the Palace of Watch because I walked in 331 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,280 there. I was like, I want everything. 332 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:18,440 I want my house to look like this. 333 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,880 And then when my test scores came back and Beholders was for 334 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,200 for me, I was like, yeah, I know. 335 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,720 I'm the daughter of an art architect and an artist. 336 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,080 My home is my palette. It it's like I paint on, you 337 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,640 know, my, my, you know, canvas is my home. 338 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,560 And so so Beholders intends to skew. 339 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,640 Either you have it very high or you have it very low. 340 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,640 I think in some ways it's actually very much of A relief 341 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,800 to be able to like put a, a word to it, a name to it. 342 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,640 Because there's just so many things about me, like, you know, 343 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,440 growing up in middle school, I would borrow like dozens of 344 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,400 books about interior design. Like when I was like 12 years 345 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,040 old and just non-stop read all these books about interior 346 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,400 design and I was like a freak of a 12 year old. 347 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:58,880 Like who does? That I did that. 348 00:15:58,880 --> 00:15:59,600 Yeah. I did that. 349 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:00,880 Well, first of all, my dad was an architect. 350 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,240 We had tons of books around the house. 351 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,280 But when Architectural Digest would come, I would, like, go 352 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:06,360 through the pages. Yeah. 353 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,000 Like a zombie. Like like upset. 354 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,960 Yeah, and my homes are really curated, you know, very 355 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,200 specifically to me, but I really care. 356 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,440 And if I walk into the room and like the flowers are of color 357 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:22,640 that's not vibing the rest of the room. 358 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,880 I like will carry them into the kitchen saying this is upsetting 359 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:26,800 me. I mean, I'm really this is your 360 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,520 beholder ISM It's it's and the great thing is like just 361 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,400 celebrated. So many cool people have 362 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,000 beholders are very high. So it's not it's and again, no 363 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,040 value is good or bad. It's just you. 364 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,680 Yeah, but it's very good to be able to explain to people I have 365 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,920 super high beholders and just bear with me while I sort of 366 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,600 change this place getting right. Yeah. 367 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,960 And I think it's kind of I also, I've always loved art growing 368 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,080 up. I love like all different 369 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,760 expressions of art. I think it's yes. 370 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,400 I really, really just like deeply appreciate the sublime. 371 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,240 Yes. And. 372 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,000 That's exactly it. I don't know how else to explain 373 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,760 it. Like back when you know, you 374 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,560 could see all the runway shows for free on vogue.com, like I 375 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,160 would every, every fashion seats, I would like pour through 376 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,200 all of the runways like and like look at them one by one and just 377 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,800 form my own opinions. And like that was my happy 378 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,240 place. Just say I want to give you some 379 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,000 gratuitous advice, which is that the next time you get serious 380 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,200 with somebody, give him the test. 381 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,480 Make sure his beholderism is up there like yours because I think 382 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,200 it gets really hard in a relationship when one person has 383 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,160 high beholderism and the other just doesn't get it. 384 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,120 Yes, it's because it bumps into everything. 385 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,200 It sort of bumps into where you choose going to a restaurant. 386 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,120 It bumps to like what your house looks like. 387 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,160 It bumps into like where you vacation. 388 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,000 It just bumps into everything. So check out that. 389 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,120 Check out Belovedness and check out Beholderism. 390 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,080 OK, that is so crazy because even before I took this test, I 391 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,040 said something to Sheree the other day about this, where I 392 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,800 was like, Oh yeah. Like, you know, I've been on a 393 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,960 couple days with this guy. I was like, I just don't know if 394 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,520 he really like appreciates some of the things that I appreciate 395 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,280 like. Like if I look nice, like will 396 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,520 he even appreciate that? Like what's the point if he 397 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,920 doesn't appreciate me looking? I know, I see, I know I secretly 398 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,720 think I developed a dating app by accident. 399 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,160 I mean, I was like, I think oops, but I mean, I think that I 400 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,080 like I said to you about my daughter and her soon to be 401 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,680 husband in two weeks, you know that their top six values were 402 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,680 identical. And they are weirdly like happy 403 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,600 because they just everything. I He was reminiscing about the 404 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,960 first time he and met her and he went back to the office after 405 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,080 they had lunch for the first time. 406 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,200 And he said to the people he's working with, I don't know what 407 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,520 just happened. And it's like when you meet 408 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,760 somebody who's got your exact values, you have this feeling 409 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,920 like what just happened. But you sort of saying if I even 410 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,160 elevated my beholderism and and sort of showed my beholderism 411 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,760 would even care is a bit of a red flag. 412 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,560 Yeah. It's like the worst guest we 413 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,200 ever had on you. Know the best, the best? 414 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,880 Well, let's see, We'll put this to the test. 415 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,280 Well, I think it's interesting Susie, what you said about 416 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,320 control because I think that's. True. 417 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,680 I mean, of course you love you love art and beauty and you love 418 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,840 flipping through those, you know, magazines. 419 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,400 But I think there's something to be said about control, yes, like 420 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,400 having some sort of control over your life, your environment when 421 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,760 this in this world, like what can you really control? 422 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,840 That's right. I think beholderism for people 423 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,480 is absolutely a way to make order of a world that can feel 424 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,080 very chaotic. Yeah, yeah. 425 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,600 And. Especially but sometimes it's 426 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,440 just love and beautiful things I don't want to buy you know like 427 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,800 sometimes you know it's just cuz you love beauty and it's OK to 428 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,640 love beauty I. Think it's both for you. 429 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:28,680 Yeah, yeah. All right. 430 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,600 So those are your, those are your top values. 431 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,520 Let's just talk briefly about your, your bottom 2 values 432 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,240 because sometimes those tell us a lot of things also. 433 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,600 OK. So your bottom that your lowest 434 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,720 value is something we call belonging, which is sort of it's 435 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,320 like kind of community, it's clubs, it's hanging with 436 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,960 friends, it's just wanting to be part of affinity groups. 437 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,760 And so oftentimes people with high voice as you have have low 438 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,520 belonging and so or does that sound right to you? 439 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,000 Yeah, I, I think so. It's just I, I don't really 440 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,600 believe in like groups or like group dynamics. 441 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,840 I'm like much more like. Deep one-on-one relationships 442 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:05,920 with people. Right. 443 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,360 So this is 100% tracks with what you're saying. 444 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,880 Your second to bottom one is place, meaning if it's a low 445 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,000 value, it means you could live anywhere that you're not OK. 446 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,800 I have to live in this one city. Like for me, place is very high 447 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,480 because when I leave New York City, I hyperventilate and feel 448 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,200 like I must get right back. And so I love to travel, but I'm 449 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,600 like, it's not New York. And that gives me very high 450 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,360 place. And so it sounds to me like with 451 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:28,880 this value that you're, you're fine with where you're living 452 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,240 and but you're not like it does not have to be one place. 453 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,640 I think so, especially recently with so much moving like leaving 454 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,600 Palo Alto, coming to Lai. Think I'm in a time in my life 455 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,120 where place will not rank high. Yes, I'm looking right now. 456 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:43,840 I'm looking where your belovedness is. 457 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,960 So let's talk about the value of belovedness before we look at 458 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,880 your values. And so belovedness is a very 459 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,240 interesting value because it reflects how much you want to be 460 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,080 in an intimate partnered relationship. 461 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,600 And it's very interesting to hear the cultural narrative 462 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,640 about how much you should want marriage. 463 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,560 In a way, I mean, think this is about a, a relationship that is 464 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,080 marriage or like marriage. And women like us have gone 465 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,680 through professional schools and we've been told it's the career, 466 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,800 it's the career and many. And that's fine and it's true 467 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,840 for many of us, but often times there are women who do not feel 468 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,520 able to say, but I also really want to get married and shows up 469 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,520 in their results. It shows up and they come in and 470 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,760 they've been like girl bossing it, go bossing it. 471 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,760 And then belovedness pops in at #1 and there's a 98% gap. 472 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:35,040 So for you, if you don't mind me saying your belovedness is at 8, 473 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:36,280 which sort of puts it in the middle. 474 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,720 Like you might want a partner relationship, but it's not your 475 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,960 driving organizing principal. You're not choosing your job or 476 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,680 your location or your weekend activities on finding this 477 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,560 partner. That you're a partner for your 478 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:49,600 life. Yeah, yeah. 479 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,640 Sounds true. I think that's right where I am 480 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,240 in in this state in life. Shall we see where belovedness 481 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:54,680 is? Yeah. 482 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,640 OK. And answer is it's 11 pretty 483 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,720 low. So yeah, let's hear what are 484 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:01,920 your thoughts on your belovedness. 485 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,200 So my. Thoughts are that I am surprised 486 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,560 because I consider myself to be like a very romantic person and 487 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,280 I like I love the idea of romance. 488 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,480 I love being in romance. I love being in partner 489 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,320 relationships. I think that it's low now 490 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:23,000 because I recently broke my engagement about a year ago with 491 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,560 someone that was together for eight years. 492 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,160 So I think it's more of like a snapshot in. 493 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,040 Time exactly why? Yeah. 494 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,320 So for me, belovedness was very high. 495 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,240 And then my husband died, and it went to, it went to it's #16 for 496 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,600 me now. And I think when you've been 497 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,760 through a seismic event involving love, belovedness will 498 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,720 shift. And you have deprioritized it 499 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,000 because of what was certainly, in some level, a traumatic event 500 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:47,720 for you. Yeah. 501 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,560 And so I would not be surprised if we were to revisit with each 502 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,280 other in six months or a year that it would move back up. 503 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,880 Yeah. And I think it's also a response 504 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,400 to, I feel like in the past over, you know, the course of 505 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,360 that eight-year relationship, it was very high right values. 506 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,360 And I think maybe it was. I was like. 507 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,000 Overweighting it, I think it might have been over expressed, 508 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,200 right? And it may be one of the reasons 509 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,520 I don't want to go, you know, get too personal. 510 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,280 But it may have been over expressing. 511 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,040 It was part of why the engagement ended up breaking. 512 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,120 Yeah. And I mean, if you had to guess, 513 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,080 while you're in that relationship, belovedness was 514 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,080 maybe one or two probably over expressed by quite a lot. 515 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,240 Do you? Can you, in your mind's eye, 516 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,520 imagine what your partner's belovedness was? 517 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:33,880 Definitely not as high because he's a much more like even keel. 518 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,280 He's just not naturally like a romantic person. 519 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,800 He's just like very even keeled, like not very expressive at all 520 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,760 in terms of emotions. I think like radius, belovedness 521 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,080 with your partner should be about the same level. 522 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,920 So if you both have belovedness in the top five, fantastic. 523 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,720 If you have it in the bottom 5, also fantastic because you both 524 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,920 are going to prioritize the relationships, the amount. 525 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,560 But woe to the couple where the one person has belovedness in 526 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,600 the in the top and the other has it in the bottom, and all you're 527 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,240 going to do is fight about how important the relationship is. 528 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,040 Actually love this framing like we love frameworks just like 529 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,840 you. I actually think this is really 530 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,240 interesting because I think recently I experienced a 531 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,960 relationship where the, the other person, this guy like 532 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,880 belovedness was super high on him. 533 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,840 It's like he was just like super expressive with how much he 534 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,960 liked me. He was like really open with 535 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,880 like PDA, like he just wore his heart on his sleeve and I was 536 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,240 very receptive to that. Like I was, it was very positive 537 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,240 to experience such a different expression from the other 538 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,360 person. And it's like more aligned with 539 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,000 I think. What's right for me. 540 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:40,040 I think your natural belovedness is quite high. 541 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,520 I think right now it's down lower because you're working 542 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,360 out. And now our values that we think 543 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,760 are pretty stable from sort of age 25 on, because a lot of 544 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,080 things go into forming our values and then they all go into 545 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,440 a big Stew and mix it up. So what goes into forming our 546 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,680 values, our parents, our culture, our society, experience 547 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,400 trauma. And then by each 25, you kind of 548 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,440 are who you are. But then a seismic life event 549 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,040 can switch our values around. Someone's having a child, going 550 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,760 through divorce, I mean, all these different things. 551 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,720 But what changes is how much we're living them or not living 552 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,760 them. And the goal is to be living 553 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,280 them. But that's kind of the work of 554 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,120 our life is to work out the conflicts and to live our values 555 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:18,960 fully. But becoming you, the 556 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,600 methodology itself says, doesn't say go live your values. 557 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,880 It says figure out your values, then figure out your aptitudes. 558 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,480 Because you could want to be Céline Dion or whatever and have 559 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,720 a very bad voice. And so you have to also know, 560 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,600 you can know your values, but then you have to know what 561 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,600 you're good at and not. And I by that I mean your 562 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,040 cognitive strengths and also your personality strengths, 563 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,680 because you could be good at a job because of your personality 564 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,120 and you can be so bad at a job because of your personality. 565 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,480 That's, I mean, look, there's four things that destroy you 566 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,040 living your own life. I called them the four horsemen 567 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,680 of dream destruction and they all start with ES. 568 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,520 So the first one is expectations, which is around 569 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,000 like what your family's expecting and what you expect. 570 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,680 Then the second is expedience because sometimes it's just 571 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,800 easier. They come and they recruit you 572 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,680 or the job sitting there, it's your next door neighbor's 573 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,200 brother has a job, you can fill it. 574 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,400 It's not really perfect for you, but it's easy and you just do 575 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,360 things that are easier. And we go against our values all 576 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,480 the time because it's just the path of least resistance. 577 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:21,880 And the world is pretty hard anyway. 578 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,280 Yeah, the easier thing, yeah. Then there's events, And events 579 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,120 are like, you got laid off, so you do something else and then 580 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:29,880 it's not quite right, but you just stay. 581 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,600 And events can push us. Getting married, having a baby, 582 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,320 there's all sorts of events. And then the final is economic 583 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,200 security. And we make all sorts of 584 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,880 decisions based on money, even though sometimes money doesn't 585 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,320 actually matter to us all that much. 586 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,760 I mean, for Gen. Z, affluence is not actually all 587 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,480 that high. Stability is much higher, much 588 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:49,720 higher. And we have a value for 589 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:50,840 stability. It's called scope. 590 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:51,880 Let's see where you are with scope. 591 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,080 That's about, if you have high scope, you want a very big, 592 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,800 highly stimulating. You don't really care that much 593 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,720 about just stability for stability sake. 594 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,560 OK, So John, you are at six, meaning it's not a it's it's 595 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,840 actually pretty close to the top that you want stimulation, 596 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,920 excitement, you want big life. That's what this would say. 597 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:16,400 And you on scope, it's pretty low for you, you know, that's 598 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,280 there's something about it tracks kind of with your 599 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,240 eudemonia low scope and eudemonia track together in that 600 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,080 you have a more comfort with having a life where you have 601 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,000 some predictability that right. Yeah, I think so. 602 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,640 I mean, like, I like the occasional occasional, 603 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,880 occasional, like, oh, this is a new experience, right? 604 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,520 But then I'm like, oh, I can come home and go to my gym 605 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,000 classes. Yes, and that's right. 606 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,960 You know that's definitely showing up here, right. 607 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,800 But and we all have a different level of want and need and 608 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,880 desire for disruption. And people with very high scope 609 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:52,840 are like, I'll take the chaos because the fun of it or the 610 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,640 excitement of it or the. I have a student who had scope 611 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,120 is her number one value. And she said, I just want to 612 00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:01,440 touch everybody's brain, OK. And that I remember saying that 613 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,360 I was like, if I could, you are the poster child for high scope. 614 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,360 And and she's has a life where she's designed everything around 615 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:10,280 that. And luckily her husband has high 616 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,920 scope also. Otherwise, I think he's quite 617 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:12,840 miserable. Yeah. 618 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:15,920 How do you feel? Do you feel seen? 619 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,600 I feel so understood. I feel like with the top five 620 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,880 and also my bottom 2 that we went through, I'm like I in 621 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,120 taking this test, it was very much like I poured my heart into 622 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:29,520 it, answered everything super honestly and the results like 623 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,000 reflect that I think. It's such good data to have, 624 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,520 isn't it? And it allows you to talk to 625 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,320 each other. Well, this is my scope value 626 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,640 speaking. Well, look, this is, you know, 627 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,080 with my high, you know, with my high value of radius, I done it. 628 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,760 I mean, it's a, it is a, it is a way to understand yourself and 629 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,760 then understand those around you as this language you know, So 630 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,040 we. Actually, we say that all the 631 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,840 time. It's like having the vocabulary 632 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,440 to actually express something. That's what's really powerful 633 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,720 about values, which is it gives you the vocabulary to put a name 634 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,480 to something that you know in your heart. 635 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,200 Yeah, but you're like, how do I express this? 636 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,280 And then now that we have this shared vocabulary, you we can 637 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,320 actually like. Like the word eudaemoniae? 638 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:06,720 Never knew that word before. Yeah. 639 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,640 Look, this happened. It's. 640 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,280 Unintentional that we named it the bridge, right, because when 641 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,800 you have a language you can build a bridge to understanding 642 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,520 I mean, we struggled with the name, but the minute the bridge 643 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,160 came to me I was like, that is the name. 644 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,600 And when I was guest lecturing at Stanford last year, a student 645 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,920 came up to me afterwards and she said, you know, all of your work 646 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,720 reminds me of this Wittgenstein quote. 647 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,640 You know, you're at Stanford when somebody comes up. 648 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,560 She said, reminds me of this Wittgenstein quote. 649 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,400 The limits of my language are the limits of my world. 650 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,560 And I said that's exactly right. Is this opens up a world of a 651 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,400 self-awareness and compassion and conversation, which is the 652 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,520 thing I dig about it. So. 653 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,080 This episode of Tiger Sisters is brought to you by Reed AI. 654 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,560 Yes, and it's not just another note taker. 655 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,720 It's like an AI copilot that can read, transcribe, and summarize 656 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,240 your meeting notes. It reads the energy and vibe of 657 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,280 your meetings to give you the next smart steps. 658 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,120 I'm obsessed because it's like having a chief of staff that 659 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,280 manages your inbox, your work meetings, basically your entire 660 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,320 work life. Yeah, last week I missed a 661 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,320 meeting and I was able to type what did I miss and read? 662 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,320 AI was able to give me the top takeaways, the key points, and 663 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,600 also the sentiment. It was kind of like magic. 664 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,480 And it works across Gmail, Teams, Notion, Salesforce, Zoom, 665 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,360 basically wherever you do your work. 666 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,520 And you know me, I never give apps access to my Gmail because 667 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,960 that's super private. But I actually made an exception 668 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,600 for Read AI because I personally know the founder, David Shim, 669 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,680 because we used to work together at Snapchat. 670 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,840 And you guys might remember we actually interviewed David Shim 671 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,600 on Season 3 of Tiger Sisters when he was talking about his 672 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,560 new startup, which is actually Read AI. 673 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,760 And now Read has over 4 million users. 674 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,200 Wow, wow. And they're giving Tiger Sisters 675 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,120 listeners a 30 day enterprise trial, which is worth $30 and 676 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,640 that does not require a credit card to sign up. 677 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,480 We don't know how long this 30 day free offer is going to last, 678 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,000 so if you're at all curious, try it right now. 679 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,480 Go to www.read.aislashtigersisters for 680 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,560 a free 30 day extended trial and you don't need to put in your 681 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,600 credit card. Sign up through our link because 682 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:12,800 then they'll know that we sent you. 683 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,640 We're obsessed with Read AI and we think you're going to love it 684 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,200 too. Susie, thank you so much for 685 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,560 going through our values bridges with us. 686 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,080 We want to turn the conversation now to you and we talk about 687 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,880 money, power and love on the Tiger Sisters podcast. 688 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,680 And we want to go through some of those questions and, you 689 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,960 know, go through your brain and learn a little bit more about 690 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,040 how you think about these things. 691 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,240 I can't wait. Great. 692 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:41,040 So in Becoming You, you talked about how the process usually 693 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,880 starts with some sort of crisis. Like we talked about maybe a 694 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,720 traumatic event, 1/4 life crisis or midlife or some kind of 695 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,120 reckoning. Why is it that it often takes a 696 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,640 big seismic shift for this to happen? 697 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,360 Because we have become so habitualized living B plus lives 698 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,240 or B, you know, we can bump along into life that's kind of 699 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,480 AB or B plus for a really long time and just keep telling 700 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,760 ourselves something's going to change or it has to be that way. 701 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,960 And we just let it go. I mean, and sometimes we let it 702 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,720 go until we're in our 50s or 60s and then we say, wait a minute, 703 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,320 the clock is actually ticking now and I'm going to fix it 704 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,320 because B is not good enough. I want to just try it. 705 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,080 But other people go all the way to the end that way. 706 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,680 And so sometimes we have to be shoved into the kind of self 707 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:31,160 examination that that we need. And so it usually is a crisis 708 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,320 where people are fired or go through a divorce or have a 709 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,560 breakup of some kindness and they'll say, wait, OK, I can't 710 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,080 take it anymore. It's no longer B or B plus. 711 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,360 It's actually C or C minus or D or it feels like F. 712 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,840 And I mean, I kind of troll on Reddit. 713 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,960 There's all these fees where people are like, I hate my life 714 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,440 and everything. And I'd like, you know, just, I 715 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,360 have to hold myself back from typing in just do becoming you 716 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,720 because they would ban me. But but there are people who hit 717 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,560 a crisis point and that's when they start the work. 718 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,640 And you know, my loving advice is to do it before that happens 719 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,600 and save yourself the time and and do it before it really 720 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,520 becomes an absolute crisis. As a tiger sister, hearing you 721 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,920 say AB or B plus life, I'm like like I need to clutch my Pearl. 722 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,080 I know I. Know, But, you know, people do 723 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,600 it, yeah. And they do it for a really, 724 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,520 really long time, and it feels OK and they make a lot of 725 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,520 excuses, yeah. Yeah. 726 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,800 I mean, I think I was living AB plus life for a long time and I 727 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,520 didn't realize it because there were so many aspects of it that 728 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,760 from the outside looked like an A or an A+ life. 729 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,880 Like all of the, you know, just like, oh, like you look like 730 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,400 you're in a beautiful couple and you have this incredibly 731 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,080 high-powered job. Like you live in LA. 732 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,600 Like there's just so many things that I think I almost let 733 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:49,000 society or societal expectations like dictate and like tell me 734 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,080 that I was living an A life or an A+ life. 735 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,400 And it wasn't until I'm actually really like grateful now for 736 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,400 that sort of like crisis moment. Because it's like you said, it's 737 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,080 not until you like sort of like crash that you're like, wait, 738 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,520 why was I on this road in the 1st place? 739 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:03,920 Like, why was I driving down this road? 740 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,560 Like it would have been a, it would have kind of been like a 741 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,760 really underwhelming life that was like not an expression of my 742 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:13,320 true self. That's right. 743 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,880 You would have been around 45 and one day you would have been 744 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,080 found yourself in your car crying uncontrollably and you 745 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,239 would have said, what have I done? 746 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,360 And and so you do have to kind of crash sometimes. 747 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,600 The outside world is the one confirming to us our life is 748 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,960 perfect and we know inside and we've got like this kind of, and 749 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,679 then you, we hear all this confirming stuff. 750 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,159 Oh, you got it all. And it comes from our friends 751 00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,639 and our parents and they are just checking the boxes for us. 752 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,840 But we know how much we are actually living the life we 753 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,080 want. We know because when we're 754 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,239 living it, we feel exquisitely alive. 755 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,440 And that is so good. But if you've never experienced 756 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,400 it, you don't want to go back and get it because you don't 757 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,639 even know what it is to begin with. 758 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,040 So a lot of stuff gets in the way of us going big. 759 00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,880 Yeah, we had an episode recently where Jean and I talked about 760 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,560 settling. Like how do you know first 761 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,080 settle? I saw that episode. 762 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,520 It was great. And I thought, wow, this is all 763 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,880 about the four horsemen of of value destruction. 764 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,000 If you want to know what which one of the horsemen is taking 765 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,400 away your life, we actually have a free quiz you can take. 766 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,240 It takes 2 seconds and it will tell you, oh, it's expectations, 767 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,240 it's expedient or it's all four and it settling is real. 768 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,200 Yeah. So Susie, on this podcast we 769 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,520 talk a lot about balancing ambition and fulfilment. 770 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,520 So when it comes to money, what do you think people most often 771 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,320 get wrong about the connection between wealth and happiness? 772 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,160 And like there's so many, you have so many terms within. 773 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,760 Yeah, I know. It's like it's a whole 774 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,120 industrial complex around this. OK, so first of all, can I just 775 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,600 take issue with the word balance, which I don't actually 776 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,400 believe in because it suggests that you should have the same 777 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,480 amount of everything. You should have, you know, work 778 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,560 and your personal life should be balanced, but who's who's 779 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,840 deciding what that balance is? You know that you should have 780 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,000 everything should be in balance. Like, you know, I'm, I want to 781 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,800 work all the time and I want tons of money, OK, and I don't 782 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,160 and I and who's to tell me I should be having more fun? 783 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,880 Go take a hike. I don't want to I don't want to 784 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,880 go water skiing this weekend. This is my fault. 785 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,520 This is, this is, and also that's like balance my. 786 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,520 So I worry about people believing that there's some kind 787 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,680 of perfect for everybody kind of balance. 788 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,560 Like you should be doing more of this or doing more of that. 789 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,920 It's actually super personal. And Jensen Huang of NVIDIA was 790 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,720 asked recently, how's your work life balance? 791 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,920 And he said, I love my work life balance. 792 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,080 I work all the time. And I mean, I was like, preach. 793 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,640 Now I get it that that's not for everybody. 794 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,720 And I don't want people to judge me about my work life balance. 795 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:42,920 Just like I don't want to judge anybody. 796 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,400 And like I have 4 adult children, their view about 797 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,640 working and balance is different than mine. 798 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,280 And I say that's perfectly fine. It's groovy. 799 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,920 Live your values, live your life, but understand there are 800 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,440 consequences. If one of your top values is 801 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,120 affluence, it's, you know, and you want to also have a lot of 802 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,680 eudaimonia, you're going to have to figure that out because they 803 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,000 don't typically track together unless you have inherited 804 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,840 wealth. I think that the thing you've 805 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,240 got to figure out is not how to have balance, but you've got to 806 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:15,280 figure out what is your balance. You know, how much do you want 807 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,040 of each one of these? This is why I like the rank 808 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,320 ordering because sometimes people say, Yep, that's it. 809 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,920 I can't lie anymore. I want, I want luminance, I want 810 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,040 fame, I want money, I want achievement. 811 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,240 And look all the way down here is Eudaimonia. 812 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,240 I've been lying about this to everybody. 813 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,400 And I want the permission to say to people, I'm not playing with 814 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,320 you this weekend. I'm going to work because I like 815 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,640 it. And we got to give ourselves 816 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,400 permission to have the balance. We want to have our definition 817 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,160 of it. I just had a light bulb moment 818 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,960 right now that let me see if I can process this live. 819 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,400 But I think it has to do with my belonging being literally my 820 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,800 last value. Like when I'm like scrolling on 821 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,440 Instagram and I see people's stories of like, Oh my God, they 822 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,640 had this Bachelorette with like 20 women there. 823 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,240 I'm like, oh that's nice. Like wonder what that must be 824 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:04,280 like to be like surrounded and have that community. 825 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,280 And it's gorgeous. And there's these photos and 826 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,440 then like for a second I feel like bad cuz I'm comparing 827 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,400 myself to that person. But if we go back to my values 828 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,600 bridge, I'm like, I don't really care for that. 829 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,400 That's not how I want to live my life. 830 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,120 Before social media you wouldn't even seen those pictures so you 831 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,040 wouldn't have cared. I mean I think it's social media 832 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,040 puts it in your face but belonging is not a high value as 833 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,120 yours. It doesn't mean that you don't 834 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,720 want some of it, but you wanted a lot less than some other 835 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:30,640 things like radius is your top value. 836 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:35,000 You would trade off clearly having high impact work with 837 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,240 hanging out with a bunch of bridesmaids. 838 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,440 OK, It's my daughter is #1 radius. 839 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,760 She's a total person wants to change the world in a lot of 840 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,240 different ways. She's about to get married. 841 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,840 No bridesmaids, OK, Let alone no bridesmaids parties, no 842 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,200 bridesmaids, OK. I mean, they're it just that's 843 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,120 not how who they are. And her husband, her soon to be 844 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,000 husband also has a high radius. It's the most, you know, this is 845 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,600 a wedding that's actually about their value of radius. 846 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,160 I mean, it's about and everybody there is going to be like that. 847 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,560 It's going to be it's going to be quite the event that there's 848 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,400 not there's no partying beforehand. 849 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,600 There's no like, you know, bachelor party. 850 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,000 Are you kidding me that they find that very, you know, that's 851 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,960 just not who they are, right? So. 852 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,800 It's it's not who I am actually, and I don't know why. 853 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,280 I mean, like, yeah. 'Cause there's, there's societal 854 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,160 culture, now you can just hold up your values, bridge results 855 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,680 and say any other low belonging people here like me, you know, 856 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,720 so OK. So our next question on money is 857 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,960 if you could sit down with your younger self, what's one piece 858 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,040 of Money Advice you wish you had known earlier? 859 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,240 There's 2 great pieces of Money Advice that I would love to 860 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:35,200 share. The 1st is there's no last best 861 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,360 deal. This has saved me from so many 862 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,800 stupid purchases, so many stupid decisions. 863 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,960 Is the whole idea of the person who's trying to get you to buy 864 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,160 something is to get you into a frenzy where you think it's the 865 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,880 last best deal. I mean, that's what advertising 866 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,920 does. That's what Realtors do. 867 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,280 That's what all sorts of people do. 868 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,640 And you have to sort of say, Nope, there actually is no last 869 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:55,720 best deal. There's always going to be 870 00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:57,960 another deal. And and what if you're a person 871 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,200 who's interested in investing the whole idea of the people 872 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,200 trying to sell you the stock or whatever it is that you're 873 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,800 investing it is to make you. I feel like it's the last best 874 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,960 deal. And so this for Frame, there's 875 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:13,440 no last best deal, has saved me so many wrong turns, especially 876 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,040 around real estate, right? There's never going to be a 877 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,480 better house than this. It's never going to be at this. 878 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,800 And you know what there is, there's going to be another 879 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,320 house and there's going to be another good deal. 880 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,360 So that's very, very centering. The second one piece of advice, 881 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,080 I think I learned it from watching people around me and 882 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,000 people now tell me it's one of the most distinctive 883 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,120 characteristics about how I think about money is, is to just 884 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,920 to fight back against the sun cost fallacy and just to the cut 885 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:38,560 your losses. I made a mistake. 886 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,320 I made a financial mistake. Get out, get out now. 887 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,200 And so this has happened with real estate. 888 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,480 I want time bought a house. I thought it was the right house 889 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,480 and it I was there for two years. 890 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,320 I thought this is in the wrong place and it's the house doesn't 891 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,960 feel right to me for a bunch of different reasons. 892 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,480 I had fixed it up and poured some real money into it. 893 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,920 And I like remember calling my friend saying I'm selling this 894 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,800 house, who they'd all visited it and they were like, how can you 895 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:02,840 do that? And I said, because I made a 896 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,680 mistake, I'm out and I may take a hit, but there's no point 897 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,200 pouring more money into this pit. 898 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,360 And so I think some cost goes across so many different 899 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,960 financial decisions and it goes into sort of job decisions as 900 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,800 well. And so cutting your losses and 901 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:21,840 the ability to openly say, I made a mistake, I own it, hello 902 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,040 world, I made a mistake, I own it and then move on. 903 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,320 I, I think with my children, I taught them that. 904 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,040 And when I see them make wise decisions, financial decisions, 905 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,760 I think, OK, that's one thing I taught them. 906 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,040 Yeah, that second one is so powerful and I think it's a lot 907 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,560 harder than what you give yourself credit for because. 908 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,720 We are wired. I mean, this is what the work of 909 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:43,960 decision scientists would show you. 910 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,800 We are wired to have some cost and love for just pouring more 911 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,480 money on our problems, thinking we're saving face, we can fix 912 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,320 it. It is so common that to fight it 913 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,200 is a discipline. But it's true about 914 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,280 relationships too. Yeah. 915 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,080 And it feels like, in a way, like you're going against 916 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,200 yourself. Absolutely. 917 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,280 Like made this decision. You had done so many things 918 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,000 following that decision to reinforce that that that was the 919 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,720 right decision. So then like changing and doing 920 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:16,200 the opposite of that or reversing it, You're like, who 921 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:17,600 am I? It's like almost like you have 922 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,240 to. But it's a lot of badass thing 923 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:21,160 to do. Yeah. 924 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,280 I mean, it really is. It's like to really own your 925 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,840 mistake and publicly say to everybody, look, I made this 926 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,640 mistake. I I took the wrong job. 927 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,560 I moved to the wrong city. I you know, I invested in this 928 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:32,440 wrong thing. I'm getting out. 929 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,400 I'm getting out now, and I'm going to take my hit and I'm 930 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,480 going to move right on with the lesson learned is so empowering. 931 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,920 And the earlier you learn to do that, the better. 932 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,880 It's really powerful, yeah. And at the end of the day, I 933 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,600 think when people see that, they respect you more for it, not 934 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,360 less. And you actually sort of get 935 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,240 this incredible kind of rush off of it yourself, saying like I 936 00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:54,200 did that because you realize how hard it is. 937 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,000 Look, it's all part of the Wisdom Project. 938 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,040 That's what I say about gathering. 939 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,120 Wisdom here. Wait, I'm going to, I'm going to 940 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,160 adopt that. I'm all. 941 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,960 Part of the Wisdom project covers up all your mistakes. 942 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,360 I mean, I and they are that is how I've gotten my wisdom, not 943 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,960 from what I did right. You know what I did wrong, which 944 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,440 there's a long. List and then OK, last note 945 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,440 about this, I feel like that there's no last best deal. 946 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,480 I feel like that actually can also be applied to love and 947 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:19,480 romance. Absolutely. 948 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,840 I mean absolutely you. Because when you think this is 949 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,320 might be the last guy or girl, you settle, OK, And then you 950 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,920 say, look, nobody else is coming along. 951 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,200 I was, I was friends with a woman. 952 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:32,920 She was in a relationship for a really long time. 953 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,480 She was 55. And he was terrible to her. 954 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,240 He was terrible to her. And I said, why are you staying? 955 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:39,920 And she said, who else is there going to be? 956 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,520 And she said, I just got to he's going to be the best guy I can 957 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,560 get. And it was it was disaster to 958 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,760 see the relationship. Well, I would go home to my 959 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,400 husband and say one day he's going to leave her for a younger 960 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,200 woman. And, you know, she should have 961 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,120 cut her losses and so forth. And that is exactly what 962 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,040 happened. And she actually now has happily 963 00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,760 found somebody else. And so it all worked out. 964 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,520 It took a while, but we do this in relationships all the time. 965 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,800 We say, look, I'm just not meeting that many other people. 966 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,240 This is the last best deal if you're settling, as you have 967 00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:13,840 said before in the podcast, that never leads anywhere. 968 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,920 It never leads anywhere good. It just does not. 969 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,400 There's no last best deal, There's no, there's no last best 970 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:20,760 deal. I'm going to be repeating. 971 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,200 This it's great for my T-shirts, right? 972 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:23,840 We it should be our mantra in the morning. 973 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,120 We like wake up and look in the mirror. 974 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,880 Yeah, we no last there's no last deal to ourselves. 975 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,160 I love. That I love. 976 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,280 It should we jump into love. Yeah, let's jump into love. 977 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,360 You can ask me about love, okay? I know that it's intensive, but 978 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,800 yeah, you can go ahead and ask me about it. 979 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,920 Don't be afraid if you talk about money, power, and love. 980 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,080 Don't be afraid to ask me about it. 981 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,880 It's okay. So Susie, you and your late 982 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,400 husband Jack both had such storied careers in the 983 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,240 professional realm. I'm sure you get this. 984 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,960 You know this question a lot. And this was long before you you 985 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,520 got married. So how did you balance being 986 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,600 partners in life while also collaborating on work on such a 987 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,640 high level? Yeah, it was intense. 988 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,280 I mean, it was really intense because we live together, love 989 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,520 together, raise the children together and worked together. 990 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,280 And the way we did it was we had very similar values. 991 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,120 We talked constantly. You've never met 2 Chad more 992 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,840 chatty people than us. I mean, it was we, we were both 993 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,680 very verbal and so we could be talking about things all the 994 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,360 time. We also knew our lanes. 995 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,560 And this was huge. Like I was never CEO of GE. 996 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,840 I never managed 400,000 people. And he had never written a, you 997 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,320 know, book after book after book. 998 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,600 He'd never edited. He had never done a lot of the 999 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,160 stuff that I knew how to do. And we agreed that we deeply 1000 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,480 respected each other's areas of expertise and we let each other 1001 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,760 be good at what they were good at. 1002 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,720 And we believe that we would really learn from each other. 1003 00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:01,760 And he had like the, I think what really helped was he had 1004 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,720 the deepest respect for me. He used to say to me all the 1005 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:05,320 time, you're the smartest person I've ever met. 1006 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,400 And I'd be like, that could not possibly be true, Jack. 1007 00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:11,320 And so he respected me and I really respected him. 1008 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,840 And that helped a lot. But you know, I think that at 1009 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,640 the end of the day, he had very high agency as a value. 1010 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,480 He he was used to being a CEO. He drove every bus. 1011 00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:25,640 He was in charge. And I have very low agency. 1012 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,880 I'm super collaborative. I am always kind of like, I 1013 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,400 think every idea should be heard. 1014 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,640 I love consensus. This is all kind of part of my 1015 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,400 personality. And I think it was very 1016 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,000 fortunate that he had high agency and I had low. 1017 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,840 I think it in our marriage, had both of us been very high 1018 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,920 agency, it would have there would have been a slightly 1019 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:48,360 different story. And I just, I had this technique 1020 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,920 when we disagreed, which is often shocking to other women 1021 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,920 when I mention it, but I did it for a really long time. 1022 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,520 And then one time I mentioned it in passing and it freaked out 1023 00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,120 the group of women I was with. OK. 1024 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,560 So when he started saying something that I really 1025 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:06,120 disagreed with my inside my head, my mantra was maybe he's 1026 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,920 right. And I didn't get my Dukes up and 1027 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,360 I didn't like start to disagree. I just thought maybe he's right. 1028 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,960 I'm just going to hear him out with the assumption he might be 1029 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,960 right. And so sometimes he'd come at me 1030 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,800 with like, really like, we're not going to XY and Z vacation. 1031 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,280 I've changed my mind. We're taking the kids to blank. 1032 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,440 And my immediate visceral reaction would be something like 1033 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,520 the worst idea I ever heard. It's wrong on so many levels. 1034 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,040 And then I would immediately transfer to maybe he's right. 1035 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,920 And I would say, why do you say that? 1036 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:37,440 And I would have this very open mind about about it. 1037 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,680 And then he would pour it all out and I would hear him. 1038 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,480 And sometimes he was right, but other times, because I had a 1039 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,440 really good attitude, non defensive attitude about it, I 1040 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,640 would say, OK, well, here's where we differ. 1041 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,880 And I would go through the ways that we that we differed. 1042 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,920 And a lot of times he would say, oh, God, I never thought of 1043 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:54,640 that, Susie. All right. 1044 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,360 But it was my lack of defensiveness that allowed those 1045 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,480 conversations to happen. And I think it feels like, you 1046 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,360 know, OK, you know, to use a word that sets people's heads on 1047 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,200 fire, it sounds kind of surrendered, right? 1048 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,040 Like the surrendered wives are always like, whatever you say, 1049 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,240 dear is right. But I just went in with the 1050 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,320 supposition that he loved me. I trusted him. 1051 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,160 He wanted what was right for us in the marriage, and he'd never 1052 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,080 hurt me. And that maybe he was right. 1053 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:23,800 And it's not. So it's not like we didn't 1054 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,240 disagree. But when he came out at me, I 1055 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,680 always started from a stance that I wanted to hear what he 1056 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,880 was saying. Wow, when I hear that two things 1057 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:36,440 come to mind. 1 is like the immense amount of self because 1058 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,040 like the way that you described it, it's just like of course, 1059 00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:41,760 like everyone's first instinct to be like, what are you talking 1060 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:42,120 about? So. 1061 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,160 Also, coming from a person where like I feel like the three of us 1062 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:49,400 are often right, like we we don't like, you know, yes, posit 1063 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,640 our our opinions that are not well researched. 1064 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,120 Right, right. We're not impossible. 1065 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,480 Exactly right. So yeah, the self regulation. 1066 00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,960 To like have that immediate thought and then to stop 1067 00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:01,280 yourself. Yeah, yeah. 1068 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,280 And then, yeah, to bring like a new perspective. 1069 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:10,360 And then I think the second thing is assuming good intent, I 1070 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,440 think that's so. It's so deep and it's huge. 1071 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,520 It's actually just as a life less changes everything. 1072 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,120 And I think I I learned that a lot from Jack. 1073 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,280 He was really that way. Jack just he, you know, that 1074 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,960 cliche, you know, strangers, a friend you just haven't met. 1075 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,320 He totally thought the whole world was just waiting to be his 1076 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:28,800 friend. He like went out into the world 1077 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,280 every day, like we're all the friends I can meet. 1078 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,400 I remember going to a party one time where we didn't know anyone 1079 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,120 and he said, could anything be more exciting? 1080 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,680 And this was so his personality. And I agree. 1081 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,800 I like, like meeting people too, But assuming good intentions can 1082 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,120 change the trajectory of your life and your career. 1083 00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:44,520 It can. And you know what? 1084 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,960 Sometimes you get burned, sometimes people don't have good 1085 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:52,120 intentions, but many, many more times you end up having 1086 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,440 relationships and conversations that you wouldn't have had if 1087 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,720 you went in with your Dukes up. So, OK, Susie, you recently said 1088 00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:03,520 on your podcast that you are ready to go on and write the 1089 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:04,960 next part of your story. Yeah. 1090 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,280 Do you remember saying that? Yeah. 1091 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,200 Or you're going to die for it. OK, go for it. 1092 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:09,720 Do you remember the next thing you said? 1093 00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:11,640 I thought I might go on a date. Yeah, I did it. 1094 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,120 We went on a date. Can we talk about it? 1095 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:15,600 Yeah. Yeah. 1096 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,520 I think, you know, here's the terrible truth, right? 1097 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,320 The date reminded me of how much I love my. 1098 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,280 Husband. So it was that terrible. 1099 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,720 Yeah, OK. It's terrible. 1100 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:23,400 Yeah. OK. 1101 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,360 Like nothing to recommend widowhood, OK. 1102 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,360 But I would say that it, I had a couple of days afterwards where 1103 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,520 I was sad because he was a perfectly good guy. 1104 00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,960 I'm a very nice guy. And actually we had some things 1105 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,120 in common, really, some things really in common. 1106 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:41,400 Like, we both like every single day, like get the same feed from 1107 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,760 this, like, devotional. And we both read that one. 1108 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,480 And so we had some serious things in common. 1109 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:51,040 And, and it was a perfectly lovely conversation. 1110 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,440 But sort of two hours into it, he said to me, I do not think 1111 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,560 you're ready. And I said, yeah. 1112 00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,320 And he said, I just don't think you're in a place in your life 1113 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,040 where you're ready for this. Are you ready? 1114 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,160 He said, Are you ready to be loved by a man besides Jack? 1115 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,240 And I thought, how astute. I thought, like, you know, he's 1116 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:09,240 really smart. And I said, I actually don't 1117 00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:10,160 know the answer to that question. 1118 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:11,400 He said, well, why don't you give it some thought? 1119 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,200 Are you already friends? No, I, we had, but we knew 1120 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,440 people in common and but he knew enough in those two hours 1121 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,480 because I actually realized that I referenced Jack like 30 three 1122 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,400 times on the date. And so it's kind of different 1123 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,520 when you've not been divorced, right, Because sometimes when 1124 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,440 you've been divorced, you're ready to start again and you're 1125 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,360 like turning the page. But for me, like I lost the 1126 00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:30,960 person I loved. So I did it. 1127 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,200 I did go on a date. And I mean, I'm not adverse to 1128 00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:39,040 another one, you know, not with that person because he's right, 1129 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:44,960 but my I have this kind of this desire with at my daughter's 1130 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,600 wedding to dance with somebody besides like my son, which is 1131 00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:53,160 really I like I was at AI was at a wedding with him and Eva the 1132 00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:54,400 other day. And like, I know they don't want 1133 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,000 me dancing with them. They want to dance with each 1134 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:57,680 other. Like who wants mom in the in the 1135 00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,840 group, right? And then I was at another 1136 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,520 wedding and I was there with my daughter and her husband and 1137 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,960 they said, let's dance. And I said, I don't want to do 1138 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:07,320 that to you. So I would kind of like to 1139 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,360 dance. So that's it's not like I want 1140 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,840 to get married again, but it would be fun to have somebody 1141 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,440 to. Yeah, I agree. 1142 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,400 Yeah, I love dancing. Yeah, and I like, So do I? 1143 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,320 Yeah, that's really fun. I miss that a lot. 1144 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,040 No, I know Jack. I used to dance all the time. 1145 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,480 Yeah, I know you want the like. It was fun. 1146 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,560 Feeling. Yeah, it was really fun, yeah. 1147 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,160 Thought I missed. Well, I mean, you did the brave 1148 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,200 thing. It felt brave. 1149 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:36,240 In fact, the morning of, I tried to cancel, yeah, but I called 1150 00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:38,560 the friend who did the picks up and I said I think I got. 1151 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,960 And she said, Nope, you can't do that, not going to do that for 1152 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,600 you. And so I did it it as I was 1153 00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,760 walking toward it and I saw him on the sidewalk, I was literally 1154 00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,440 the inside my head I was saying like, turn around, leave, leave, 1155 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,640 leave, leave, run, run, run, run. 1156 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,240 I mean, I was it felt really brave. 1157 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,200 I kind of hated it. But then the minute we said 1158 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,080 hello, I was like, I can have a conversation with anybody. 1159 00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,880 Yeah, I'm just going to do sure care, right? 1160 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,360 I didn't give them the values bridge. 1161 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,760 I did not. But I, but I was doing it in my 1162 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:11,320 head and, but I, so I'm not adverse to, it's not like I feel 1163 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,240 like, OK, never again. I'm never going to do that again 1164 00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:16,320 because hope springs eternal. But I, you know, it's hard, 1165 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,400 right? Because I had a great marriage. 1166 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,480 I had a great, great, great marriage. 1167 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,960 And so it's like a very hard act to follow. 1168 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,000 Well, I hope you're proud of yourself. 1169 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:26,040 Thank you. Truly. 1170 00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:28,120 It's kind of like you were saying before. 1171 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,320 It's gathering wisdom, yes, right. 1172 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,520 Yeah, OK, I'll, I'll take that. Maybe I'll say I'm a little 1173 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,000 proud of myself. I mean people have been it's 1174 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,320 been 6 years, right? So people have been pushing me 1175 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,200 this towards this. I mean, I have a girlfriend who 1176 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,400 was widowed recently and like 6 months later she went on her 1177 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,000 first date and I was like, how you doing that? 1178 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:45,920 And she said you got to get out there Susie. 1179 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:50,800 And I was like you do, I mean. But I mean, you're kind of 1180 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,120 building an empire now too, so you have all these different, 1181 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,160 you know? What I mean, I'm building a 1182 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,520 business, OK, and I love building a business. 1183 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,280 I've always loved business so much and becoming you is kind of 1184 00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,040 taken off in a way that is like, you know, started with me 1185 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:04,920 teaching this class and next thing I know there's like, you 1186 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,720 know, people doing it all around the world. 1187 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:10,560 And since since the values bridge came out May 6th was 1188 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,400 really about 6566 thousand people have taken it. 1189 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:14,920 That's beginning of a business, would you say? 1190 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,120 Right. And so and we've got other great 1191 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,520 products that are coming down the Pike. 1192 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,080 And so I'm building something. Building is fun. 1193 00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,000 Yeah, and talk about radius. Yeah, but right. 1194 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,440 So many people just live. You know, you think you're 1195 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,680 touching emails and DMS every single day from people who say 1196 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,240 it changed my life this way, it fixed my life this way, it did 1197 00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:34,960 this for my son or whatever. And I'm like, Oh my God, yes. 1198 00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,520 I'm addicted. I was just going to say that we 1199 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,320 get those two and it's an addicting field. 1200 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,040 It is like it puts you in a float. 1201 00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,040 It's like a drug. It is. 1202 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,080 I can't stop doing this. Like, look, all these people 1203 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,680 are, I don't know, like relying on me, sort of like there's all 1204 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,600 these other people in the world that haven't been most of what 1205 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,960 we do and we can help them. It's unreal. 1206 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,280 It's the feeling of it. And when my kids say to me 1207 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:56,400 you've got to take a day off, you've got to take a break, I 1208 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:57,800 say I'm building something. Yeah. 1209 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,880 And it's important you don't. I mean important. 1210 00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:02,280 It matters. It matters. 1211 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,520 I think it does, yeah. But I mean, this is like one of 1212 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,880 the many reasons why I really admire you. 1213 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,320 And I almost feel like, I don't know, I feel like we're kindred 1214 00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,480 spirits in some ways because there's just so many ways that 1215 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,960 you've reinvented yourself and you've done so many new things, 1216 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:19,160 like, throughout your whole life. 1217 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:20,640 Like getting your PhD. Yes. 1218 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:21,920 Yeah. In your 60s. 1219 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,400 Yes. That's incredible. 1220 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,880 Yeah, I think it's crazy. I don't, I don't understand it. 1221 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:29,760 Well, first of all, reinvention comes sort of comes with the 1222 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,920 territory because the economy changes and the world changes 1223 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,120 and you change. And so I mean, when I started 1224 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,200 working as a journalist, we were typing on like standard, you 1225 00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,080 know, manual typewriters and you have to keep on reinventing 1226 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,160 yourself or you're just going to be passed by. 1227 00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,200 And because one of my because I have the values of achievement 1228 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:48,960 and scope, I didn't want that to happen to me. 1229 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,280 So I kept on. And also I just have a natural 1230 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,520 kind of personality. I'm an early adopter of 1231 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,080 technology. Like I was like one of the first 1232 00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:57,640 people who bought a BlackBerry back when there were 1233 00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,640 Blackberries. I was like, this is so cool. 1234 00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:04,240 Like, you know, and I so I have that part of me and I think 1235 00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,400 there's weirdly a kind of fearlessness about how I 1236 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,080 approach the world. But I think it that is actually 1237 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,600 increased a lot since Jack died because when the worst thing in 1238 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,800 the world has happened to you, like what can scare you anymore? 1239 00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:19,280 And one thing that really helped me is when I was fired in my 40s 1240 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:21,280 from the Harvard Business Review. 1241 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:23,880 And it was like a little bit of a, it felt like a public death. 1242 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,680 I'd never been fired from anything in my life. 1243 00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:27,960 Then I was fired and it was reported in the Wall Street 1244 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,880 Journal. And then I didn't die. 1245 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,480 And people kind of came around and said, yeah, everybody gets 1246 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,240 fired and like, you'll get over it. 1247 00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:37,240 And then the two weeks later, Oprah's organization called me 1248 00:56:37,240 --> 00:56:38,400 and said, how do you like to come work here? 1249 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,160 And I was like, oh, wait a minute, I'm going to dig that a 1250 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,360 lot. And you realize that you could 1251 00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,960 just die 1000 times in your career and it's on you. 1252 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,440 You can just be reborn. And just to sort of say, yeah, 1253 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,840 but you've got to have the the ability to say, yeah, got fired. 1254 00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:58,560 I'm not going to try to. I didn't get laid off. 1255 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,200 I didn't like. And in fact, when I got fired, 1256 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,200 they said they were going to put out a press release that said 1257 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,520 that I resigned. And I said, don't do that. 1258 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,280 You're firing me. I want the truth. 1259 00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,160 I'm going to tell the truth. And so should you. 1260 00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:13,280 And I mean, I, I hope if there's anything, you know, that I've 1261 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,440 given other people the curve, say, look, it didn't work out 1262 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,800 and I got fired and then I moved on. 1263 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,360 I love it when people are candid that way. 1264 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:23,200 So I, you know, some of my reinvention was quite forced 1265 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,400 because I had no other choice. But I could have just opted out 1266 00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:29,360 and I just opted in. Yeah. 1267 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,280 Awesome. Oh my God, you're so wise. 1268 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,480 I'm so. I'm just absorbing everything. 1269 00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,120 Like you're, you're so like filling my cup. 1270 00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,280 I'm so. I love being with you. 1271 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,680 I'm yeah, I'm so happy for your futures. 1272 00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:44,560 And you were just. The fact that you're doing this 1273 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:45,960 is beautiful. It's fantastic. 1274 00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,160 Thanks so much, Susie. And so for our audience 1275 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,720 listening, what is the best way they can connect or find your 1276 00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,040 content, your book? Oh, holy. 1277 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,360 All right. So I mean, there's Susie Welch 1278 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,680 all together is my Instagram. I'm on LinkedIn, you can and my 1279 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,400 podcast is called Becoming You. You can find it on all the 1280 00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,240 platforms and the book is everywhere. 1281 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,720 Books are sold. And the values bridge is at the 1282 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,600 valuesbridge.com. Incredible. 1283 00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:15,960 It's Susie with AZ. Yeah, Suzy. 1284 00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:18,600 Amazing. Thank you so much. 1285 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,680 I love being here. Appreciate you. 1286 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,400 Ever come to New York? You've got to come be on my 1287 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:23,240 podcast. Yeah. 1288 00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:24,240 We have so much fun. Absolutely. 1289 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:25,120 OK. I'm game. 1290 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:25,760 I'm game. Yay.