1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,640 Welcome to Part 2 of Everything We learned at Harvard Business 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,200 School. In our last episode, we talked 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,960 about the hard skills that Jean learned at HBS, which includes 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,360 strategy, finance, product and marketing. 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,760 In today's episode, we're going to go over the soft skills, some 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,360 of the skills that HBS is really known for and famous for, like 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,360 leadership and networking. Harvard Business School is 8 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,320 renowned for creating leaders and a lot of times people say 9 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,840 that the true value of the education at HBS is learning 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,800 your your own leadership style and then also all the networking 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,400 that you do. I'm Cherie. 12 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,440 I'm Jean. And we're the Tiger sisters. 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,400 If this is the first time you're meeting us, here's a brief 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,120 introduction. Jean is my older sister. 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,840 She graduated from Harvard Business School in 2017, and 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,440 she's had a kick ass career well before that as well. 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,440 So she worked in finance as her first job. 18 00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:07,080 Coming out of undergrad. She was at Goldman Sachs and 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,800 then she transitioned her finance career into tech. 20 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,240 She was a product manager at the gaming company Zynga, and then 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,040 she went to Business School. After Business School, she LED 22 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,320 product augmented reality monetization at Snapchat, and 23 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:22,040 now we're working on our entrepreneurial journey 24 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,880 together, trying to make all these institutions and 25 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,040 industries that we worked in a little less gate kept so more 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,360 people can learn more about them. 27 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,600 I'm Cherie. I just recently graduated from 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,080 Stanford's Business School back in June, and we're now in this 29 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:37,600 new chapter of our left together. 30 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,160 So we hope you enjoy this episode and check out all of our 31 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,040 other videos in this season and also in the past seasons of 32 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,360 Tiger Sisters. And we're going to get started 33 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,360 right after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you 34 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,000 know that we now have merch on sistersmatcha.com. 35 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,880 We have sweatshirts and T-shirts that we designed ourselves. 36 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Go check it out and please rate US five stars on Spotify and 37 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,840 Apple Podcasts. These ratings are so important 38 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,520 for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters 39 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,440 Podcast. Thank you for your support. 40 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,120 OK, now let's get started on leadership. 41 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,600 It is one of the biggest pillars at HBS, if not the biggest 42 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,560 pillar. We studied all sorts of 43 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,760 leadership theory at HBS, from the classic command and control 44 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,440 style to the more modern servant leadership style. 45 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,520 And we're going to dive into the top styles of leadership today, 46 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,520 how they affect different companies, walking through 47 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,840 examples of different leaders at different companies, and also 48 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,120 kind of talk about how you can apply it in your life too. 49 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,080 I am so excited to talk about this because it seems kind of 50 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,760 like squishy, you know? But there are 4 common 51 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,640 leadership styles that we're going to outline. 52 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,400 And it's like actually really important because different 53 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,080 leadership styles directly impact the culture of a company 54 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,760 that you work for, how people think about performance and how 55 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,960 they grow in their career. So this is actually really 56 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,640 important to talk about. And performance translates to 57 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:57,280 stock price. To enter the chichi. 58 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,320 Enter HBS. Chichi sound a fact. 59 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,360 Yeah. So the first style leadership 60 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,560 we're going to talk about is servant leadership. 61 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,920 Gene, why don't you kick us off? So the idea of servant 62 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:10,040 leadership is to actually sort of flip the idea of leadership 63 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,760 on its head and kind of subverting the hierarchy where 64 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,720 when you're the leader, you approach leadership as serving 65 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,640 everyone who actually works for you. 66 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,000 So what does that mean? One really good example, we used 67 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,800 Starbucks in our previous episode. 68 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,880 Let's use Starbucks again. So Howard Schultz, who was the 69 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,040 CEO, longtime CEO of Starbucks, left. 70 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,400 They brought him back like he's kind of a legend, iconic. 71 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,880 He's iconic, and he's also iconic for sort of being the 72 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,000 star of a lot of HBS cases actually. 73 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,240 But Howard Schultz is a pretty famous instance of servant 74 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,320 leadership. And he really employed servant 75 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,760 leadership not only in the way that he actually led his 76 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,240 employees from the day and day-to-day, but also in how he 77 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,720 structured the policies of his company. 78 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,840 So he was one of the very first people to give benefits to even 79 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,600 part time baristas. And that was very much aligned 80 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,320 with the company values and the company culture of creating, 81 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,040 creating the idea of 1/3 space. So he wanted to create a third 82 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,000 space not only for his customers, but he wanted his 83 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,880 employees to feel that as well. And he was like, they can't feel 84 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,399 that, and they can't create that sort of comfort, comfortable 85 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:25,400 space for customers unless they also have amazing benefits. 86 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,640 Yeah, I feel like this is the epitome when people are like 87 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,880 leaders eat last, like this is the actual. 88 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,960 People say that. It's the name of a very famous 89 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,560 book. But also people say, like, 90 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,160 people who are talking about certain leadership are like, 91 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,480 leaders should eat last. And a lot of my classmates who 92 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,720 came from the military actually have this mindset as well. 93 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,880 Like, I think a lot of military folks come out of their training 94 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,960 and they're like, OK, this is the type of there's the 95 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,000 leadership where you're like up in the front, like leading 96 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,960 people. But then also it's actually more 97 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,240 empowering at times when you're like leading from the back to 98 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,440 because then you're empowering your employees or your team to 99 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,600 drive forward your mission. Like, you don't even have to be 100 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,080 at the front and like be, you know, dictating anything. 101 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,800 Yeah, it's actually very powerful when employees, 102 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,720 especially a lot of employees see you doing the things and see 103 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,520 you also like changing the printer cartridge or like doing 104 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,960 simple things that sort of illustrate, hey, I'm in here in 105 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,760 the trenches with you guys. Like, I'm not above anyone task 106 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,160 just because I'm your boss. I'm here doing it with you too. 107 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,960 It's actually the type of leadership that I enjoy the 108 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:29,680 most. Yeah. 109 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,680 Like when I was working with my engineering team and my design 110 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,640 team at LinkedIn, it's not like I was just like telling people 111 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,000 what to do. I was doing it with them. 112 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,160 So we're like like Co creating together. 113 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,760 And actually one of my bosses at LinkedIn, Albert, he also 114 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,480 employed servant leadership and as like a gift to me when I got 115 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:52,000 promoted is that he gave me two terracotta soldiers like, you 116 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,000 know, like the like from like from China. 117 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,080 They were, they're at home here somewhere. 118 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,600 But like they're like these small miniature shoulder 119 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,680 soldiers that like one was standing up and one was like 120 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,960 kneeling down and he's like, I give these to you. 121 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,680 Congratulations on your promotion. 122 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:08,880 Like remember, certain leadership is how we serve what 123 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:09,880 I know. So like. 124 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,000 Such good lore. This is like I. 125 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:13,880 Don't even remember. I don't think you've ever told 126 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,840 me this story. And I had it on my desk for the 127 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:19,520 longest time out at work. So it's this is actually very 128 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:20,360 meaningful for me. So I'm. 129 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,560 Such AW boss, I know. He's such a good. 130 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,400 Boss he gave you. He gave me two terracotta 131 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,240 soldier statues, like literally miniature and they sat at my 132 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,040 desk to remind me of like servant. 133 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,840 Leadership. Oh, that's so beautiful. 134 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,040 So I think it's also like a really hot phrase nowadays. 135 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,080 So if you're taking anything away from this episode, like you 136 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,840 should know, like servant leadership is a kind of like 137 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:44,120 very buzzy and people are excited about it. 138 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,360 Yeah, it's a good term to like throw into the conversation 139 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,680 actually, if you're talking came about leadership, service 140 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,000 leadership. But back to the example of 141 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,360 Starbucks. Not only does servant leadership 142 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,960 help foster a better environment for the employees, where servant 143 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:02,840 leadership also comes in for the bottom line is that once you 144 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:05,800 have employees who are more invested in the company, they do 145 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,640 a better job at their job. They also go above and beyond at 146 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,800 creating a better customer experience, which then in turns 147 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,640 translates to more profit and a better bottom line. 148 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,680 So think increased brand loyalty and increased revenue growth. 149 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,160 Yeah. So if the experience is better 150 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,960 for the employee, like the outcome is like 10 times greater 151 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,600 for the customer itself. So this is really a great 152 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,560 leadership style to lean into. This is a good example where it 153 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,240 translates pretty directly Starbucks. 154 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,240 That's why I like this example. OK, so the second style of 155 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,720 leadership is called transformational leadership. 156 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,280 Sheree, can you tell us about that? 157 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:42,960 So the. Classic example for 158 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,960 transformational leadership is thinking about a leader who just 159 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,760 has like the most insane vision and is like super compelling and 160 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,320 you're like OMG, I definitely want to follow this person. 161 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,040 A classic example is Steve Jobs. If you guys have seen any of 162 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,720 his, you know, on stage product announcements, he is just like a 163 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,320 visionary that people think. Obviously he's really great at 164 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,360 speaking, really great at presenting, but he's also really 165 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,720 gifted at creating a compelling vision that everyone wants to 166 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,800 buy into. His vision definitely energizes 167 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,520 employees and helps them dream up what they could possibly 168 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,760 achieve together. Yeah, and I think in turn it 169 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,640 also translates into a cult following of fans, right? 170 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,760 Like what other brand has so much cachet and brand power and 171 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,039 loyalty aside from Apple? Yeah, people love, I mean people 172 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:34,120 love their Apple products like nothing else compares. 173 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,640 Yeah, and also part of it is the idea of like the cult of the 174 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,760 leader. That really plays into it too, 175 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,159 right? People like back in the day, I 176 00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:45,480 don't know if people remember this, but people used to line up 177 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,920 for hours, like overnight, waiting for the new iPhone to 178 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,720 come out. And it wasn't just because the 179 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,760 iPhone was so revolutionary every time. 180 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,240 It was because people wanted to be the first to get their hands 181 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,600 on whatever Steve Jobs had dreamed up. 182 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,920 He was really special and amazing and drove not only a lot 183 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,600 of that innovation, but also kind of the concept of the 184 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,840 entire company was like really wrapped up in him, yeah. 185 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,480 I mean, it's not even just the customers. 186 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,120 I think the employees like this is like leadership, 187 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,120 transformational leadership for the employees. 188 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,240 I think people like were really afraid of him but also so 189 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,840 enamored by him. Yeah, People would talk about 190 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,040 how he was so magnetic and when he, like, looked you in the eye, 191 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,120 he could compel you to do anything like, just by like, 192 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,480 looking at you in the eye. And you'd be like, Steve, that's 193 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,560 not possible. I cannot possibly make that 194 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:34,600 deadline. He would look you in the eye. 195 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,760 Be like Sri. Yes, you can. 196 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,240 I believe in you. Hey, I'm over here. 197 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,400 I was. Looking into my camera. 198 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,600 But then people would make the impossible happen. 199 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,280 Yeah. And then a more like modern day 200 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,840 example of this. A lot of people say that working 201 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:56,160 for Elon Musk also felt the same at times. 202 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,400 And he's kind of created that sort of help following within 203 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,080 his own company as well. But there are downsides. 204 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Yeah. I mean, there are downsides 205 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,840 because like, for example, with Steve Jobs passing away, I think 206 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,880 there's a big question mark of like, when that happened, who 207 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,160 would take over and would they even have the same effect? 208 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,440 On the company, Tim, Apple doesn't have the same legs. 209 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,840 Some apples a little bit different you, don't you? 210 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,120 Don't get that Steve job. He doesn't hit the same, but I 211 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,560 mean, Apple is still a very wildly successful company. 212 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,160 But I think as that chapter ended with Steve Jobs stepping 213 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,800 away, stepping down, a part of the company changed as well and 214 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,200 I'm sure for the employees on the inside. 215 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,240 So the last take away is that transformational leaders spark 216 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,920 massive innovation and they can change entire industries, but 217 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,400 they must have strong management teams behind them in order to 218 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,160 maintain stability. OK. 219 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,560 So the third style of leadership we're going to talk about is 220 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,240 transactional leadership. Gene, can you let us know a 221 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,560 little bit more about? This yes, transactional 222 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:59,080 leadership is kind of the tried and true classic standard of 223 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,120 leadership. It's also sometimes called 224 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,120 carrot and stick leadership, and I think the most famous original 225 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,560 example is Jack Welch at GE in the 80s and the 90s. 226 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,600 And what this leadership style is, is creating very clear 227 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,800 rewards structures and penalties. 228 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,520 Jack Welch was one of the very first CEO's to implement what he 229 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,320 called a rank and yank system where the bottom 10% of 230 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,560 performers were let go every single year. 231 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,280 And then he also rewarded out performers in an outsize way. 232 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,720 So if you were the top 10% performers, you got a major 233 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,080 bonus way more than anyone else you know was not in the top 10%. 234 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,400 This worked really, really well. GE was massively successful in 235 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,040 the 80s and 90s, outperformed a ton, and that's why this kind of 236 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,040 became the standard for a lot of different companies. 237 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,480 So I worked at Goldman, Sri mentioned right out of 238 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,640 undergrad, and that's what we did at Goldman. 239 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,640 The bottom 10% of people were let go every single year. 240 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:58,840 And I thought it was normal because it was my first job out 241 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,200 of school. I mean, The thing is, I don't 242 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,920 know how I feel about the style of leadership because the 243 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,240 culture that it creates, it's like extremely cutthroat. 244 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,800 It can be a very successful method to incentivize and reward 245 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,120 people for doing the best work. But yes, it's incredibly 246 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,920 cutthroat and competitive. Yeah. 247 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,560 And I would say like a lot of financial industries, like 248 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:27,040 working in investment banking, private equity, sometimes 249 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,840 consulting, it is like an upper out system instead of yes, rank 250 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,960 or yank. Like the new phrasing is up or 251 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,560 out is up or out. Like you either get promoted or 252 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,920 you got to go, you're fired. I think it puts a lot of stress, 253 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,000 especially on young people. Like when I was like fresh out 254 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,760 of school and my friends were working investment banking, they 255 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,800 were so nervous about their like performance review, if they were 256 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,560 going to be promoted or not. Didn't that make them work 257 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:51,960 harder and it made them perform? Better Yeah, and they made them. 258 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,440 It made them hate their Co worker like their Co workers. 259 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:56,200 At the expense of their mental. Health. 260 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,880 Yes, exactly. The thing is like my initial 261 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:03,080 reaction is to label this as toxic and like that's just like 262 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,200 me being like Gen. Z, like Oh my God, that's such a 263 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,520 toxic work environment. But I do think this works for 264 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:14,840 certain industries because even in tech, the sales org within, 265 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,680 if you have like a sales team within your tech company, which 266 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,800 many of them do. Like if you're working in B2B 267 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,920 SAS like a lot of sales orgs have, or out rank or rank or 268 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,880 yank type of structures. Do you incentivize salespeople? 269 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,440 Well, yeah, I mean. Purely the numbers driven. 270 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,920 In a sales org, the the main saying is you, you kill what you 271 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,160 eat or you eat what you kill. Have you ever heard that? 272 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,520 No. Oh, really? 273 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,600 Yeah. Oh, you eat what you kill. 274 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,560 So basically everything you do is accretive to you, but you 275 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,200 don't really get any necessarily, like, benefit of 276 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,560 the doubt. Otherwise it's like bring in the 277 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,920 money or leave. Like the reason you're here is 278 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,880 to hit your quota or exceed your quota. 279 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,880 It's just like so numbers driven that at the end of the day they 280 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:01,960 haven't hit their. Metrics, yeah, or closed. 281 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,400 A certain number of deals. Yeah, there's just no like 282 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,040 allowance for I guess extenuating circumstance. 283 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,160 Yeah, the way that I feel like other organizations within a 284 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,760 certain company might have. Yeah, I think also you know why. 285 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,880 It's because in other parts of the org, like in product or 286 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,240 engineering or whatnot, they work on much longer term 287 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,400 projects which take longer than 1/4, can take longer than two 288 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,320 quarters, can even take multiple years to see results. 289 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:34,000 So it's harder to judge them on such discrete metrics versus a 290 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,000 lot of times, most of the times sales orgs are judged within the 291 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,240 quarter. Yes, that's right, it's within 292 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:41,920 the. Quarter, so you have you live 293 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,040 and die by your numbers. Yeah, at LinkedIn and at a lot 294 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:51,000 of companies that have sales teams, the top like 1%, I think 295 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,560 of people of top performers would have an incentive and it's 296 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,360 called club and they would bring like top performers. 297 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,600 This is just the lore. I've obviously never been, but 298 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,520 my friends who worked in sales like would tell me about you 299 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,080 weren't in the club. I wasn't in the club. 300 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,120 She literally was not in the club. 301 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,320 I wasn't on the sales team #1 so. 302 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,000 She wasn't in the club. And many people who were in the 303 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,760 sales team were not in the club anyways. 304 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,120 Just like you, but they would bring. 305 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,880 Them to like Bali or something or like something crazy, it 306 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,960 would go to club. Yeah, yeah, it was kind of 307 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,240 similar at Zynga. The number one performing studio 308 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,520 each quarter would get a massive reward. 309 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,440 So the entire studio, it would be like 60 to like 120 people 310 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,320 would all go on a trip together. So that's why I went to Hawaii 311 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,200 multiple times with my team as a reward trip. 312 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,480 We went to Vegas multiple times as reward trips, went on ski 313 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,880 trips together. But that doesn't. 314 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,440 Really happen as much anymore. I feel like people clamp down on 315 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,000 it. But anyways that glory days are 316 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,480 over. I have one more kind of lore 317 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,640 story. Is that at Snap, at the very 318 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,480 beginning, we sold ads at SAP and at the very beginning, the 319 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,240 way that the incentive structure was was that salespeople would 320 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,160 literally get 1% of what they sold, which is insane. 321 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,280 Like, if you just run the numbers, some of those sales 322 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,480 leaders made out like bandits, like did so so well for 323 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,640 themselves. But that is very, very much back 324 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,000 to what we were saying. Carrot and stick, the ultimate 325 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,880 carrot. You get to keep 1% of the 326 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,320 revenue of your ad sales. Yeah. 327 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,320 You literally eat when you kill. It's it's actually like very 328 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,880 powerful. Money, money, money, money, 329 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:36,720 money. So yeah, so that is 330 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,240 transactional leadership. Shitty. 331 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,880 Now we shake hands. So the last and final form of 332 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,520 leadership we're going to talk about is laissez faire, also 333 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,560 known as hands off leadership. I thought it was pronounced 334 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,400 laisse faire, Laissez faire, laissez faire, laissez faire, 335 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:54,800 laissez faire. Laissez. 336 00:16:54,800 --> 00:17:00,480 Faire Anyway yeah this is actually a very controversial 337 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,119 leadership style and it's basically the idea that there is 338 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,640 no official hierarchy and everyone in the team will self 339 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,280 organize around the most important goals and those will 340 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,440 be self identified and that's what people are going to sort of 341 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,920 gravate gravitate towards and work on and so one really famous 342 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,359 example of this is this company called valve. 343 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:23,760 There's definitely HBS cases written about them. 344 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,560 I did a case about them I. Learned about this at. 345 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,520 Stanford as well with an HBS case. 346 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,720 Probably we at Stanford's cases are all HBS cases. 347 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,480 OK, so Valve is the video game developer behind Steam, and the 348 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,800 idea behind them doing laissez faire leadership is that they 349 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,440 think it unleashes a massive amount of creativity. 350 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,360 And the idea that people can sort of socialize and put their 351 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,080 energy into whatever projects they deem the most important, 352 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,400 that kind of creates this, like, massive, you know, explosion of 353 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,240 creativity. And people are doing all these 354 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,400 things that never would have been sort of come up with if you 355 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,240 had ahead of time done like a major strategy exercise and, you 356 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,880 know, sort of had top down leadership deciding what people 357 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,000 focus on. Yeah. 358 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,920 So it's pretty controversial, I think. 359 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,520 Yeah, my two cents. Nobody asked my two cents. 360 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:15,640 What? Are your two cents. 361 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,320 My two cents on this leadership. I'm like, when I first learned 362 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:19,600 about this, I was like, this is dumb. 363 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,280 I was like, why would anyone do this? 364 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,360 Obviously it's worked well, but I think it's just so dependent 365 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,720 on the company at the company culture, obviously like the 366 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,760 style leadership effects the culture, the culture effects the 367 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,880 leadership. But like it really requires like 368 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,080 fast moving people and people who take extreme ownership and 369 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,200 want to like, if you know, if there's no one telling you what 370 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,440 to do, you need the type of personalities working at the 371 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,760 company who will then take the initiative and take it on. 372 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,000 I think coming from a big tech company, my experience is that 373 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,680 like it can feel very complacent. 374 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,240 And if you don't have people on the team who are like willing to 375 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,600 step up, rise up and take responsibility, then it like 376 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,800 everyone's kind of looking around and be like, what do we 377 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,440 do? And so like I've worked on teams 378 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,600 like that and I'm like, I just don't see this happening on like 379 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,000 the teams that I've worked on. However, like in a different 380 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,480 circumstance, different people, different industry, it could 381 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,040 come together, but my initial reaction was like what? 382 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,160 Nothing would get done. She said rise up, rise up, rise 383 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,200 up. On your knees. 384 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,200 You rise up. Anyway, I think I can take the 385 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,200 devil's avid devil's advocate to. 386 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,680 The. Devil's, I love, I love the 387 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,840 Devil. In smaller teams, it can work 388 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,400 really, really well. Smaller teams where you have a 389 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,880 lot of trust and there isn't any hierarchy. 390 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,760 And what I'll say is maybe in our company, in a lot of ways, 391 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,320 we are laissez faire leadership. Yeah, a company of two people. 392 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:46,080 I agree. Yeah. 393 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,440 But like, it's not like I am in control of what you do and 394 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,520 you're in control of what I do. So if you expand that even 395 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,440 beyond us, like let's say there were six more people in our 396 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,800 company that were sort of equivalent to you and me where 397 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,280 we have the same level of trust, sure, in their competence. 398 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,960 And we're we can say like, hey, this is your area of ownership 399 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,560 and go ahead and run at it. You could see how this could 400 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,280 eventually expand. This takes extreme extreme. 401 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,960 Trust. And extreme trust and extreme 402 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,720 delegation. And I think it is extremely 403 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,360 fragile. There's no delegation. 404 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:21,200 The point is that there's zero delegation. 405 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,120 You just delegate yourself. Sorry. 406 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:26,120 Then I think back. In collaboration, I guess. 407 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,800 No, I guess extreme delegation is is what I mean. 408 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,320 But I I see your point where I'm just like, I'm not going to 409 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:33,800 handle this. You handle it and then they go 410 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,120 running with it. But I wouldn't even be telling 411 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:36,720 someone to handle. It it's not delegation, it's 412 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,200 ownership. Yeah, it's extreme self 413 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,920 ownership. This makes me want to throw up. 414 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,280 She's so big techified. I know she's so all she knows 415 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,320 are is structure and she just wants to be told like how do I 416 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,400 excel? And she wants everyone to just 417 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,680 play their role. Well, actually, I don't think 418 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,760 that's quite it. I think it's more that I'm just 419 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,040 cynical. I think I've just seen a lot of 420 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,040 people rest and vest. And so if I were working on a 421 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,120 smaller team where everyone's in it and everyone's collaborating 422 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:11,360 and has as much to win and to lose, I would feel much more 423 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:13,320 safe. I've worked with people who are 424 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,240 just like. Who made her feel unsafe? 425 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,760 Complacent. And I'm like, we're not hungry. 426 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,640 I'm I'm freaking hungry to like win and to get it. 427 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,040 And if you're not hungry, then I'm like, then this is not going 428 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,120 to work. She hates complacent people. 429 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,360 Complacent people. Show yourselves. 430 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,840 I mean this. Is just who I am and if you want 431 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,200 to work with Tiger Sisters AKA. You want to work with us if you. 432 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,520 Want to work with Tiger Sisters AKA Sisters Worldwide AKA 433 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,440 Sisters Matcha? You come to me on the day of my 434 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,200 daughter's wedding. Anyways, we're going. 435 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,920 We're going. Now, OK, no one thing I will say 436 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,560 is that the way that this is presented is it's very black or 437 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,880 white, which is also not the case in the real world, right? 438 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,560 Sure. I will say a lot of companies 439 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,520 will have elements of laissez faire leadership within the 440 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,640 company. And I actually think when I 441 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,040 worked at Zynga, there were a lot of elements of laissez faire 442 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,880 leadership. And I've said before that the 443 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,280 company motto at Zynga would be your own CEO. 444 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,160 And the, the way that the company was structured is that 445 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,880 there were a lot of different gaming studios. 446 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,960 So each game had its own GM. So basically each game had its 447 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,600 own president under the CEO. And so all of these different 448 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,000 studios were run completely separately. 449 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,680 They had their own GM, they had their own CT OS, they had their 450 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,680 own head of product, like chief product officer within the, 451 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:37,520 within the, the studio. And so that in some ways is sort 452 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,960 of laissez faire applied in a different way. 453 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,760 Yeah, I can see that. I think it's just laissez faire. 454 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,080 It unleashes a lot of creativity, yes, gives a lot of 455 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,440 ownership to the individual team, but it also requires a lot 456 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,360 of self-discipline and a lot of self management. 457 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:55,400 OK, so the main take away of all of this is that there are many 458 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,560 different styles of leadership and it's not like A1 size fits 459 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,160 all. As you can see, Jean and I, as 460 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,800 we're talking through each style, we're like, oh, we've 461 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,320 seen some of this, we've seen some of that. 462 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,320 Like sometimes it's a combination of all these 463 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,960 different styles, styles put together. 464 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,960 Different styles call for different approaches, and 465 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,240 sometimes the best leaders are able to weave all these 466 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,040 different styles together to create a culture and approach of 467 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,120 their own. Yeah. 468 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,320 And I think the point of actually learning about this 469 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,760 framework of all these different styles is so that you can draw 470 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,840 from each of them and pull in which elements make sense to 471 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,840 you, which one works for your company culture that you're 472 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,800 trying to create. And I think the other thing to 473 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,360 keep in mind is that it's not one-size-fits-all for even the 474 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,480 company, right? So depending on what stage your 475 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,480 company is in, let's say you're a really early startup like 476 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,400 Cherie and I, it actually makes sense to be laissez faire, 477 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:47,760 right? Like we don't need to create, 478 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,400 create some crazy structure between the two of us because 479 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:56,120 when's my bonus coming? What you kill because it's just 480 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:58,760 the two of us. But once we start growing and we 481 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,440 have more people, then maybe we do want to transition to 482 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,400 transactional because then there's actually a rubric and 483 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,160 people understand what they have to do in order to be perceived 484 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,120 as or to be measured as successful, right? 485 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,800 And then maybe from there, that's what sets up the base 486 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,080 where you can actually have transformational leadership come 487 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,240 in, right? That's when you say when people 488 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,880 really understand what their roles are and what they're 489 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,200 supposed to do, then you could say this is what we're aiming 490 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,440 for. Like we are sort of aiming for 491 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:27,720 the stars. This is we're trying to do 492 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,320 something that's never been done before. 493 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,760 And we need you guys to actually go above and beyond what is 494 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,880 stated in your roles in order for us to all do that together. 495 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,400 So yeah, depending on the stage of your company, depending on 496 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,000 the industry of your company, depending on your own personal 497 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,400 style, the idea is to take all this, what you've learned, and 498 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,760 then use it for yourself. OK, Now moving on to our next 499 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,240 section, which is networking. Networking is often considered 500 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,240 the biggest intangible benefit of an MBA, especially at 501 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,600 Harvard. The idea is that at HBS or at 502 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,120 GSB or wherever you are, you're surrounded by peers who are all 503 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:11,000 investors, future leaders, operational kind of experts, and 504 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,560 you're just building these organic relationships with them. 505 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,960 And the idea is that you kind of start building together in the 506 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,640 future. I mean, a lot of people go to 507 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,080 get their MBA because of the network. 508 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,680 And this is like, I'm going to give you kind of one example of 509 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,960 how that might play out and how it has played out with our 510 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,640 Startup Tiger Sisters podcast and Sisters Worldwide, which is 511 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,520 what we're building together. When you're going to get your 512 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,280 MBA, there are like 3 things you should think about if especially 513 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,000 you are starting a company of your own. 514 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,480 First is the network of your classmates. 515 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,400 The second is the network of the faculty and professors you're 516 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,280 surrounded by. And 3rd is the network of alums 517 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,080 and potential investors. So for the first category of 518 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,200 like network is like your classmates. 519 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,920 These are, like Jean mentioned, like brilliant people who have 520 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:04,520 been like so highly vetted and have done amazing things in 521 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,320 their career before coming to Business School. 522 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,960 Like, for example, since I started this podcast, the idea 523 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,360 of podcasting when I was in Business School, I was able to 524 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,760 ask my classmates to be on my first ever podcast, which was 525 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,840 Cherise Corner before we had Tiger Sisters. 526 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,840 And because of that, like I was able to figure out the kinks of 527 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,120 podcasting. I was able to reach out to my 528 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:29,440 community of classmates as my first like beta testers for my 529 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,040 podcast before, you know, we hit the big leagues. 530 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,600 They were so helpful, so kind, and each time I iterated with 531 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,760 them, I was able to learn something new so that Jean and I 532 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,280 are able to now work on this full time relatively seamlessly. 533 00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:43,840 The second network. That is. 534 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,640 Super helpful and useful. Actually invaluable at Business 535 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,760 School is faculty support and also professors. 536 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,040 So in my last few quarters of Business School, there's like 2 537 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,240 examples that come to mind. Like, one, I was able to ask 538 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,520 these incredible lecturers and professors, Joel Peterson, Glenn 539 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,480 Crayman, who are iconic professors of mine who I've had 540 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,800 the privilege to learn from, but they were on my podcast, which 541 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,040 was so amazing. And also, the second example is 542 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,160 that I worked with another professor, lecturer at Stanford, 543 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,320 Alison Kluger, whose specialty is in media and entertainment. 544 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,240 And so she and I were able to work really closely over my last 545 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,000 few quarters as I pitched her the idea of, you know, working 546 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,880 with my sister in entertainment after graduating. 547 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,520 And so they were their advice, their experiences. 548 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,520 Like, I don't know how else I would have been connected to 549 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,800 such amazing industry professionals outside of 550 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,280 Stanford's Business School program. 551 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,080 And the third type of networking that people usually do at 552 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,280 Business School is with alums and investors. 553 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,720 Many times the alums are the. Investors. 554 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,520 Yeah. Another example that happened 555 00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:00,280 just last week is that recently some companies have reached out 556 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,240 to Shree and I with different business opportunities of ways 557 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,400 they want us to collaborate, work with them together. 558 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,920 And they were in industries that candidly we know nothing about. 559 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,040 As you guys know, you know, we have sisters Matcha, but that's 560 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,120 all been totally new to us. Neither of us have ever worked 561 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:21,120 in CBG or made anything remotely that you can hold in your hand. 562 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,240 So last week I actually was like, who do I know that's in 563 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,320 this industry? And I realized one of my really, 564 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,120 really good friends is, I want to say one of the foremost 565 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,920 experts in this kind of new ish industry. 566 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,400 And I literally just texted her and I was like, hey, can I show 567 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,000 you this contract that they sent us and get your thoughts on 568 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,520 this? And like, this is what they 569 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,240 offer. This is what they had in mind. 570 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,360 This is what seems weird to me based off of my business 571 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,520 intuition. This is what I think I'm 572 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:49,960 surprised by. This is what? 573 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,240 And I just, we just basically texted, she looked it over. 574 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,000 She even made a tiny little spreadsheet for me in like 5 575 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,720 seconds and sent it over. And she was like, hey, this is 576 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:58,880 how I think the math would work out. 577 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,200 And I was like, wait, so you did like they didn't include this 578 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,640 and the like the prophet aspect. I'm not telling the story well, 579 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,040 but the whole point is that I was able to text her and she 580 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,640 came back to me and she was like the most valuable advisor I 581 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,320 could have possibly had in the world. 582 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,520 Like, it's just so cool. And I was like, Oh my God, thank 583 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,320 you so much. This is so, so helpful. 584 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,400 And she's like, yeah, no problem. 585 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,640 Like I'm sure I'll ask you for for help sometime in the future 586 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,040 too. And I'm like, yeah, I'm sure you 587 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,240 will. I mean, I think it's also not 588 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,360 only just having access to this network too, it's really how you 589 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,480 kind of make used use of it and not only like you receiving 590 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,960 help, but also providing help to the network as well. 591 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,480 And so it's like awesome to hear that you and your friend have 592 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,560 kept in touch and are able to lift each other up in in 593 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,520 different ways. Yeah, totally. 594 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,040 And I think it's not just access, it's very casual access, 595 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,000 right? Like this person that I texted, 596 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,040 she's my good friend, and I didn't really think twice about 597 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,200 texting her. I wasn't like, oh, like, should 598 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,240 I reach out? Should I not reach out? 599 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,120 I was like, hey, dude, look, what do you think? 600 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,920 You know, and it's actually fun to help each other with areas of 601 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,640 your own expertise. Like if somebody texted me 602 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,680 something and I was the exact perfect person to help them with 603 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,040 their problem, I would be really excited to lend my expertise to 604 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,720 them. You know, it's actually like 605 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,680 really fun to help your friends out and fun to help them succeed 606 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,200 and vice versa. So it's it kind of goes back to 607 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,680 remember when we interviewed Imran Khan and he said, you're 608 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,240 not really my friend unless I can just text you. 609 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,080 Yeah, unless I have your phone number and I can text you 610 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,200 anytime and you respond to me pretty much right away. 611 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,760 Yeah, I was. That's kind of the case here. 612 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,000 I think that's also why it's powerful. 613 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,480 It's like not just having these people in your like second third 614 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,600 degree network. It's having all these people 615 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,920 that are really impressive and amazing and just being able to 616 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,760 reach out very easily and casually and knowing that it's 617 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,680 reciprocal. Absolutely. 618 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,560 OK. So, Cherie, can we get a little 619 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,600 bit tactical here? So how do you actually go 620 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,640 through the process of, I guess, like networking, even if you've 621 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,120 met these people, how do you be more intentional, intentional 622 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,680 about maintaining your relationships? 623 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,120 Yeah, I think networking is all about intentionality. 624 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,800 It's like so easy to kind of sit back and just like, wait for it 625 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,360 to happen, but you have to like be very mindful of how you go 626 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,800 about it. And it's honestly one of the 627 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,000 things I really enjoy, which is kind of like sick of me, but 628 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,160 like, I really like it. So like. 629 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,400 Whenever it's her personality. Kind of my personality, like 630 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,560 whenever. I have like I'm really. 631 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,760 I'm whenever I'm reading an article and I was like, Oh my 632 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,680 God, this would be perfect for Glenn Craymon. 633 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,520 Like my, my one of my lecturers who I'm like super close with. 634 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,400 He was the former editor of the New York Times for like 3637 635 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,920 years. Yeah, dude, I love Glenn 636 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,280 Craymon. He's so bad. 637 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,600 He's generally so cool. I've only met him once but I 638 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,360 love. Him, he's like legendary in so 639 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,160 many ways, but like if I like read an article, I'm like, oh, 640 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,520 this is interesting. Glenn would love this. 641 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,400 Like I'll send him that article and in that vein, like when I'm 642 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,680 sending him in that article, it's like a correspondence where 643 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,680 I could be like updating him on some of the stuff that my sister 644 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,640 and I are working on. I mean, I do that all the time 645 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,680 for the professors that I stay in contact with just because 646 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,640 like they're my friends. And like I'm constantly like 647 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,880 reminded of ways that I'm like, oh, he would find this 648 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,480 interesting or she would find this interesting. 649 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,320 But like it takes that like little extra step of 650 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,000 intentionality, not only having the thought, but whenever you 651 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,800 have the thought, just like go and do it and send an e-mail. 652 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,960 And it doesn't have to be like 20 minute exercise where you're 653 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,080 reading your e-mail over like 15 times. 654 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,200 Be like, Oh my God, should I written this? 655 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,520 No, just be like hi like dear so and so like like was reading 656 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:36,560 this article and I thought of you. 657 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,280 Thought you might like it for this reason. 658 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,240 Then just wrap up the e-mail and send it. 659 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,480 Yeah, this is Cherie is very, very good at this. 660 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,600 I think like naturally it also, I think it's a skill that can be 661 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,320 built and it's a muscle that can be built up over time. 662 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,360 So if you do it a few times, then you kind of get into the 663 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,480 habit of doing it and it doesn't feel like scary each time. 664 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,080 Yeah, I think it's more natural to you than me because for me, 665 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,960 I'm, I'm probably a lot of people out there. 666 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,600 It's more, I think I, I feel like I have to think more about 667 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,880 the e-mail and like, make sure it's like written the right way 668 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,880 so that I create this barrier for myself to even send it. 669 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,880 What I could do is maybe just have a more casual mindset about 670 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,320 it. I mean, unless you're emailing 671 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,600 like the Prime Minister of Norway, we kind of like, you 672 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,920 know what I mean? I'm like, hey, kind of how 673 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,360 actually kind of how your e-mail, you're texting your 674 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,320 friend. Yes. 675 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,440 Is the mindset that you should approach these, like, 676 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,400 intentional networking discussions? 677 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:41,520 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 678 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,680 I think that's actually a great way to look at it. 679 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,000 And I'm, I'm trying to do that more is to just treat more 680 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,840 people like they are your friends. 681 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,520 Because I think generally people want to be friends with you. 682 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,680 And if you just treat people as your friend, then they'll treat 683 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,360 you as their friend. I love it. 684 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,920 OK. So last question on this topic 685 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,640 is that how could you replicate this without having an Ivy 686 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,880 League degree or without actually going to Business 687 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,880 School? Yeah, I think the most important 688 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,520 principle is to make sure that you're offering help first 689 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,440 before like receiving help. That is like one of the most 690 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,159 important things about networking. 691 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,520 I think it networking gets such a bad reputation because in, in 692 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,040 my mind, like a lot of people are like take, take, take, take, 693 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,719 take, take, take and like that is not what networking is at 694 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,400 all. Networking is so much more about 695 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,600 giving than it is about receiving. 696 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,960 You have to be willing and open to give help and open up your 697 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,480 own network, open up your own resources before you even 698 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,520 receive help at all. It's kind of how I think about 699 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,440 mentorship as well. A lot of people I think go into 700 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,960 mentorship being like you're so and so you're amazing please 701 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,360 mentor me. But mentorship is very much a 702 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,080 two way St. and before you ask someone for help, you also have 703 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,760 to give help. Someone who's watching this 704 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,120 might be thinking like, well, I'm just lilo me, like what do I 705 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,120 have to offer? Like how can I actually help 706 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,360 this person that is, you know, 5 steps ahead of me in their 707 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,920 career? And one example I would give is 708 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,280 like even for you sending an e-mail, you know, of like, hey, 709 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,600 I read this article. I think you would really enjoy 710 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,520 it for XYZ reasons. That's already kind of an 711 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,040 overture. That's like offering help to 712 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,360 someone in a way that anyone can do, right? 713 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,840 Like Glenn Cremon doesn't actually need you to like for 714 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,480 anything. No, but actually. 715 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,160 This this this really worked out because I read. 716 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,760 An article Yeah. Wait, this is such a good story 717 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,880 so. Glenn Cremon, one of my writing 718 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:42,000 professors at Stanford, he has a class on like LinkedIn and like 719 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,240 how to make your LinkedIn, how to spruce it up, how to have the 720 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:47,520 right LinkedIn introduction, all this stuff. 721 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,760 And there was like an article that was written about like 722 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,600 LinkedIn, specifically the topic that he like talks about in his 723 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,480 lecture. And so I read the article and I 724 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,400 sent it to him and he responded within like 15 minutes. 725 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,160 He's like, thank you so much. I'm going to include this in my 726 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,080 next lecture. Like, you know, it was just 727 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:03,880 that. Was called professor. 728 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,640 It have such an. Easy way to OfferUp help and 729 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,080 OfferUp the hey, I'm thinking about you and it made a tangible 730 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,840 difference in how he runs his life. 731 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,200 Yeah, I mean, that's such a good example because like you could 732 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,240 be like, oh, what could you know, Sharia's her, his former 733 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:24,880 student possibly offer this like world renowned lecturer who was 734 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,080 also a world renowned. Times. 735 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,080 Editor, New York Times editor. And like, literally, you helped 736 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,840 him with his Lesson plan. Exactly, exactly so. 737 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,320 And it wasn't like I like moved mountains or like I like 738 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,920 completely like chained turned his world upside down. 739 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,920 It was just like a little little thing and it helped. 740 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,400 And that's, I think just it builds goodwill. 741 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,560 I wasn't even trying to build goodwill. 742 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,160 I was like, hey I thought of you, this is helpful. 743 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,200 Yeah, I love that example. It's such a good example. 744 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,720 Yes, love you, Glenn. OK guys, that's pretty much 745 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,280 everything I learned at Harvard Business School about leadership 746 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,400 and networking in 30 minutes. What a good overview and the 747 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,480 fact that you paid over $250,000 but you guys get it for free and 748 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:11,040 in 30 minutes is great. And if you guys haven't seen, we 749 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,440 have another episode. It's Part 1 where we talk about 750 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,000 more of the hard skills that Gene learned at Harvard Business 751 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,360 School and we go all over that in that episode. 752 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,520 Please check it out. Yeah. 753 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,160 And also we did say this is everything I learned in 30 754 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,800 minutes. It's not literally everything. 755 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,040 It's a good summary. It's a good summary. 756 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,720 But we could also probably create like 20-5 more of these 757 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:33,760 and they would all be a creative and you guys would learn a lot 758 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,280 from it. So tell us your questions, like 759 00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:39,960 let us know what areas you want us to dive into more and what 760 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,920 specific questions you have, what you want to learn about and 761 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,000 maybe we can answer them. Yes, and Please remember to 762 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,000 like, comment and subscribe and share this episode with someone 763 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,400 who would find it helpful. We read all the comments, let us 764 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,880 know what questions you have and we'll see you next time. 765 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:56,880 Thanks. Bye. 766 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,800 Hey everyone, quick break to share something special. 767 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,640 Sisters Matcha. We've launched limited batches 768 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,720 of ceremonial grade single estate single cultivar matcha 769 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,280 straight from the family farm Sheree worked on in Japan. 770 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,640 It's pure, authentic, and crafted with intention. 771 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,800 Head to Sisters matcha.com to grab yours before it sells out. 772 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,640 Make Matcha your daily ritual for lasting energy and focus.