Welcome to the Season 3 finale of The Tiger Sisters.
In this season, Jean and I were so lucky and grateful that we're
able to talk to billionaires, investors, CEO's, people who are
just so successful in their fields and they were able to
give us some incredible advice. So this is our bonus wrap up
episode where we talk about the main takeaways and we're also
going to go through some of our more normal segments like roses
and thorns, all the things that you know and love.
I'm Cherie. I'm Jane.
And we're the Tiger sisters. Stick around till the end of the
episode for not only all of our favorite parts, but also our top
learnings from all of our guests this season.
And we'll get started right after this break.
Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on
Sisters matcha.com. We have sweatshirts and T-shirts
that we designed ourselves. Go check it out and please rate
US five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
These ratings are so important for the distribution and
survival of Tiger Sisters Podcast.
Thank you for your support. And we're back.
So let's get started on roses and thorns, which we haven't
done for a while. Cherie, can you kick us off?
I would say my rose is that I'm in my most like state that I've
been in a very long time in terms of working out.
I, if you guys have seen our previous episodes, I talk about
working out in our health and diet and exercise episode.
And I have a challenge like a New Year's resolution to go to
the gym 30 days in a row, which is really hard or just being
active 30 days in a row. So it's been difficult to like
achieve that goal, which is not a bad thing, but like it really
keeps me motivated to have that internal goal because now I'm
trying to go to the gym almost every single day, which like,
you know, I've made it 10 days in a row, skip the day clock
reset. I've made it 2 weeks in a row,
skip the day clock reset. But it's totally fine because at
the end of the day, it like just motivates me to be really
active. So I'm really happy.
That's like my rose is that like, Oh my gosh, like I am
getting to a very active and like probably my best physical
shape that I've been in a long time and a mini sub rose is that
I can see my ABS for the first time like ever.
Like the share with people? I have like baby ABS.
No, this is not a show and tell. This is a rose and thorn.
But like, I like me like baby ABS, which I'm really proud of
because I feel like it's just my consistency showing up.
It is a lagging indicator of the work that I've been putting in
since like January. So I'm happy to see the progress
there. And so next, my thorn is that I
feel like I'm going through a pretty big life transition.
And it's something that's been like on my mind recently where
I'm also going on dates, which is really fun and exciting.
And they've been positive experiences as well.
But things are getting more serious, I would say.
And like the conversations that I'm having with, you know, the
people that I've gone on dates with where it's just like in my
20s, I hadn't had like a serious relationship that it would talk
about engagement. But now, like, things are a lot
heavier where I'm like, oh, I'm in my late 20s approaching 30s.
Like the conversations that we're having are not just like,
ha ha, he he fun conversations. They're a bit more serious about
like what we want in the future if we're compatible with each
other. And those conversations can be
fun, but they just, it just feels like that there's a lot
more at stake now that those conversations are happening.
And it's something I've been reflecting on.
It's just like, yeah, it just feels like a life transition.
Like I haven't been here before to like, have these
conversations. They're a bit harder to have.
And I have to really dig deep, show more vulnerability.
And I was like, oh, this is messy sometimes, you know?
Oh, honey. So yeah, it's like not ha, ha,
he he in my early to mid 20s where we're just, you know,
frolicking in the Meadow with flowers.
No, now we're just like, if there's a baby in the future,
will you wake up in the middle of the night to take care of the
baby so that I can rest? I'm like, Oh my God, these are
too serious of conversations. But I think it's growing up.
It's a part of it. So sorry, not to be a downer,
but I'm like God this is it's hard.
Maybe I'm regressing because I'm back to ha ha hee hee.
And I'm, yeah, you're regressing.
And then I'm going this way. We're we're going like that,
yeah. I'm all ha ha hee hee.
Yeah, so as you should be after the serious conversations you've
had for the last. Oh my God, that's true.
So enjoy your ha ha hee hee. I will.
So, Gene, what is your rose and your?
Thorn Yes. So I'll start with my thorn.
And it is just that a over the last month and in the next
couple weeks, 2 of my really good friends are moving away
from LA. One actually both of them I know
from undergrad, but one I've known for and been really close
to since literally freshman year.
So that's like, what, like, I don't know, almost 20 years.
And the other one I got to know better over the last couple
years. And one has moved away to New
York and now one is moving to Alaska.
So guys, I got range and friends.
OK, First of all, she's got range.
So yeah, there's just kind of like a bit of like a morning
that comes with that because one of them, the one that's moving
to Alaska, he was actually the first person that I talked to
after everything like, went down with my breakup.
And like, I mean, I say that to basically illustrate how close
of a friend he is. And it's just going to be sad to
not have him around. And I don't know, like, we would
just do things all the time. Like we would have, you know,
dinners and nights. And it's just like your friends
who you do like low key but really fun things with and you
just really, really deeply enjoy your time together.
So that's my thorn, but I guess I could visit him in Alaska.
True Plan a trip. Around it yeah, OK, that's
that's yeah, that's that's the upside to it.
And then the the Rose I was going to talk about was just
that as you guys may have heard, I've started dating again, which
has just turned out to be actually like really fun and
positive. And like one question that I had
because I haven't dated in eight plus years basically.
So one question I had going back into it is I was sort of
wondering if it would be as fun as it used to be or if it was
going to feel like a totally different, a new paradigm, you
know, since I'm so much older than I was last time almost 10
years older. But no, it's it's been fun so
far and it's just really encouraging.
That's the roads. I think it's good to have a
positive experience getting back out there because it can be
really scary, yeah. So it's nice to leave it feeling
just happy and positive and excited and hopeful because I
know that like talking to some girlfriends, if they've gone on
like really bad dates, like multiple in a row, it kind of
just like little cuts kind of crush the spirit a bit when it
comes to dating. Yeah.
And I'm also just really grateful that I'm having a
positive experience because I was sort of like so unsure
because it was such a long period of not dating that I was
really not like nervous, but just like the the unknown was
more vast than it ever has been. But now she knows.
Now she is all. Knowing Yeah.
So yeah, I'm happy about that. It's exciting.
I mean, who knows? Like, I'm sure it'll be like a
roller coaster overtime and there'll be times when I'll be
sad and I'll share that with you guys too.
But yeah, for now, I feel positive about it, Sissy.
And next, we'll talk about our main learnings from all of
Season 3. Hey everyone, quick break to
share something special. Sisters Matcha.
We've launched limited batches of ceremonial grade single
estate single cultivar matcha straight from the family farm
Sheree worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and
crafted with intention. Head to Sisters matcha.com to
grab yours before it sells out. Make Matcha your daily ritual
for lasting energy and focus. OK, one concept that I noticed
resonated a lot with all of our subscribers is the idea of Be
dumb to succeed. That was episode with Vutran
that maybe Cherie will put an infographic of here.
She's not using her arms, so I'm not sure.
Oh, there we go. She's committed.
Yeah, that one was like a big hit.
Yeah, I think it was. It's also just so
counterintuitive. Vu is such a smart, intelligent
person, but it's so funny to like, see him throughout the
conversation. And his, like, main take away
was like, you should go Max dumb.
And I think it's just like, so counterintuitive.
But I think there's a lot to dig in there.
Like #1 it is such a good saying to like, go into a conversation
and go to 1st principles and be like, what exactly are we
talking about here? And instead of like being at
like love level 10, you go all the way back down to level 0.
You ask why over and over again so that you can understand at
its. Core what?
People are talking about or what the concept is because something
Vu said that I thought was really interesting was like, if
you try to be a little bit smart, you end up as midwit and
then you tell them you end up like.
He said midwit. Yeah, he said, midwit.
So like, it's better. I've heard that phrase before.
Oh, really? It's something that people use
in a very derogatory term, like someone who's like.
What? Yeah, like just means mid.
Like mid smart, like if you try to come off as smart you end up
at midwit and then that's why it's always best to go.
Look into this term. Go to 1st principles and go Max
dumb. Yeah, I agree with that because
I feel like I've seen that in a lot of instances where if people
are just actually, I think this phrase maybe is sometimes
overused but intellectually honest.
And you're just like, you know what?
I really don't understand this thing that you're saying.
And I can't, we can't move forward in this conversation
unless I actually understand what you're talking about.
And then they dig into it and like actually ask the questions
and get something explained to them that I think has a lot more
people give that a lot more respect than you just kind of
like trying to roll with it and trying to sort of pretend that
you actually know what people are talking about.
Yeah, the smartest people I know are the ones who are least
afraid to say they do not know or do not understand a concept.
I think it takes a lot of self-confidence, a lot of
bravery, and a lot of just like accepting like, oh, I don't
understand this. I know I'm not a dumb person.
So could you please explain it to me in a different way?
Because I think just like, honestly, the worst people that
I've come into contact with are the people who are like are just
pretending, pretending to know because that doesn't help
anyone. Yeah.
And I also think that the smartest people that I know are
ones that are always, I think they always acknowledge the fact
that there's always more to learn about something.
And they pretty much like come into any conversation with being
like, you know what? I'm really not the expert on
XYZ. Like even though I'm literally a
billionaire investor. For example, Jeremy Liu, when he
was telling us about his hot take, one hot take that he has
is about nationalizing the investment into AI so that we
can actually progress faster as a country, meaning the United
States then the other superpowers in AI.
And in part of the conversation I remember him saying like, oh,
you know what? I actually have a lot more
research and understanding to do on this specific topic.
But from what I know, this is my opinion and my opinion is a
strong opinion weekly held. So I think those two concepts
actually tie together the idea of Max dumb go Max dumb, and
then the second concept of strong opinion weekly held.
And then also like acknowledging, hey, there's so
much more research, there's so much more I have to learn about
this area. Yeah.
It kind of just reminds me of me when I was in college and I was
studying computer science. I remember being so afraid of
looking dumb or so afraid to raise my hand and ask a
clarifying question because I was not in a psychologically
safe environment to do so. And I just, like, had very low
confidence in myself. So, like, I didn't want to look
dumb in front of my peers, my classmates.
And like the professors were like for the most part very,
very nice except for one professor that made me feel very
dumb. But like they're all very
accommodating one-on-one. I would go to the professor's
office hours. They'd be super nice.
But like in front of other people, I didn't want to seem
dumb. And that mindset held me back so
much like caring what other people thought or not wanting to
look dumb. This can be applied in the
classroom and like in Business School too and in the workplace
like I don't know how many times like people are just like biting
their tongue or not asking a question because they don't want
to seem like they don't have it together.
But honestly, at the end of the day, if you don't speak up,
you're only hurting yourself and chances are other people have
the same question that you do. Yeah, and this is also her
villain origin story because then she became the president of
Columbia Women in Computer Science Club.
She was like a massive club at Columbia.
True. And you guys threw this like,
huge conference. I remember.
Yeah, we had conferences and networking events, but yeah,
that was my villain origin story because like, most of my classes
were dominated by men at the time.
And yeah, office hours were not very nice.
People were pretty cutthroat in computer science.
So it's nice to have a community where you feel where I felt like
I could go to and feel very safe.
The second main take away that I thought was super impactful over
the entire season was something that Imran Khan said, which was
basically the equivalent of having emotional control.
How would you put it? Emotional regulation Self.
Management. Emotional self regulation.
Yeah, exactly. So basically Imran was saying
that his whole entire life, just the way that his demeanor is, is
that he never gets too excited about anything.
And then he never gets too depressed about anything.
And for him, I think it was much more of like a natural
personality trait, but he attributes that personality
trait to really helping him succeed in a lot of ways.
And you can kind of see how it works out in like, you know, he
was an investor. He like worked on like huge,
massive deals. He was the chief strategy
officer at Snapchat and like brought us all the way through
like IPOIPO and like major roller coasters in in the stock
price. And I could see why that would
be something that is a really successful person's like source
of power. Just the ability to kind of like
ride through any waves, never get too overly excited and never
get depressed. It's a very like level headed,
like inner Zen perhaps where like he's able to sort through
all the highs and lows without like, you know, throwing himself
and feeling every single bump along the way.
Yeah, that helps you be more successful in the long term
because then you don't get dragged down by failures.
Yeah, I really liked. Imran's failure story and also
Jeremy Liu's failure story because those were the two
people that explicitly talked about getting fired really early
on in their career, which is like a really powerful thing to
share, especially to like 2 younger people and their
careers. I candidly have never been
fired, but like, if I were fired, I know that it would be
probably one of the worst days for me in my life.
I could just only imagine it, you know, like I would be a
complete mess. I'd crash out.
Like I'd be really sad. But it's like really encouraging
to see that like these successful.
I was, I would say Titans of industry were fired at one point
and not only did they bounce back, but they had massively
successful careers after that. It, you know, it wasn't maybe it
was a low for them, but they were able to grow their careers
in such a meaningful way. And also now look back on the
firing story and see how that related to them getting their
next like stepping stone to like really jump off and succeed.
Yeah, and I want to also call out that they were both actually
fired, like not laid off. Like it wasn't like their entire
org was, you know, laid off or something.
They were specifically, they both said fire.
Performance. Performance reasons.
And so that's like, even it makes the anecdote even more
powerful, right? They're basically being like,
yeah, I sucked like I was. Bad from one reason or another.
And then I was fired. But then like, look at us now,
no. No, I mean like they kind of
were just like, yeah, we sucked. We didn't know how bad we were
and we were let go. Yeah, yeah, I like that.
So is that do you think like that's like 1/3 take away?
That's a third lesson is that you can always bounce back from
anything, from being fired. I don't.
I think that's just like a generalization.
I don't think everyone will bounce back or can bounce back.
I don't know, it sounds like a pretty traumatic thing.
But I guess my take away from those stories is that there are
many paths that you can go on when things don't go your way,
when things seem really shitty. Like it might be shitty in the
moment, but it's not going to be the thing that like defines you.
You don't have to make it. The the life defining thing is
that I got fired, but they were able to really learn from what
had happened. And their next opportunity was
from that really shitty moment. Like it was born from that
shitty moment, which gives me a lot of hope that like for the
shitty moments that I'll have in the future, no doubt they'll
they will be there for whatever reason.
Like it might not be the worst thing in the entire world, even
though in the moment it might feel that way.
I think another way to think about it or another way to put
it is that life is long, careers are long.
And had these two people not specifically told us those
stories because we asked them, we said, what is one of your
failures? Tell us about your failures.
And they told us that story. Had we not asked them, like,
maybe the world would have never known that they both were fired
at one point, you know? But that's not something that
you just like randomly share there with people and any sort
of article written about them. It's a blip.
It's like the tiniest blip in the most insanely successful
careers for both of them. Like you never would have.
No, it's because no one talks about it.
Yeah. Yeah, but like it didn't even
really, there was no like negative consequence of it.
Yeah, overall. Yeah, in the long run of the
career. So that's just.
I don't know, I'm sort of like, just like repeating it for
myself. You know what I mean?
To just be like, oh, like we never would have known it.
Never. It would never be mentioned in
their like LinkedIn or like any sort of like Forbes article or
Time, Time magazine article written about them.
Yeah. So it's like fine to fail.
Yeah, I feel like also like greatness lies ahead of us and
greatness lies ahead of you. Yes.
Amen. Amen.
And then the third and last main take away that came from Jonah
Goodheart is that it is okay to pause.
Yeah, I really enjoyed this part of the conversation with Jonah
because I think when we think about entrepreneurs and founders
are really successful people, what we see on the outside,
especially in the articles, is that like, they're on the grind.
Like everyone's grinding, they're on the wheel.
Like, you know, it's always go, go, go.
I think that is the impression that, like we see in media and,
you know, in culture. But honestly, I really like
Jonah's advice. He's like, it's OK to take a
pause because in that pause, you're not only taking care of
yourself, you're taking care of your like mental health, your
physical health. And in that you're helping
yourself get even further. If you are able to pause and
take a moment for yourself, it's OK to pause.
And it was nice to get permission, I guess, from such a
successful person. I think it's the concept.
Also some people say it's the idea of slow down to speed up
that like sometimes you need to take a rest and like walk away
from the problem at hand to then be able to process it and see it
in a different light. Something that I've been
thinking about is that I move a mile a minute or like I'm
someone who really likes to take action.
I'm someone who's like go, go, go myself.
I'm just like, what is the next thing that I can do to move this
forward? A lot of the times I don't give
myself enough grace and enough time to really think things
through and to let it marinate. David Shim talked about this in
his episode. It's a little bit of a different
context, but he talked about it in the context of public
speaking that like whenever he's preparing for a speech, he
always likes to take time away from the speech itself so it can
process in the background while he is doing other things.
But I think that like, the underlying concept is the same.
It's like you can step away from what you're doing so that you
can really bring your best self when you step back into it.
Yeah, I love that phrasing of it.
And I think what you were saying before, especially when it
applies to entrepreneurship is so true in terms of like what
I'm so used to thinking like coming into entrepreneurship.
I remember I have a lot of very, very, very extremely successful
friends who founders and entrepreneurs and back in the
day when it was like very much the Silicon Valley mindset and
it was the like, you know, founder is everything mindset.
I remember they used to be like, Oh yeah, like we sleep in the
warehouse. We like sleep in the office.
Sleep under our desks. Yeah, we sleep under our desks.
And so for me, you know, ever since I entered my professional
life, I always thought that that was the concept of an
entrepreneur. That was the concept of a, a
startup founder, is that you had to be that exact archetype,
otherwise you could never be successful.
And then I also, I also thought that you had to be a, a, a tech
entrepreneur in order to be a startup founder basically, which
is obviously not the case. So I think that it can be
successful depending on depending on the like economic
conditions, but it's not it's not the best path or the right
path for everyone. I like it.
Slow down to speed up. All right, so wrapping up this
episode, one last question and one last topic is Cherie, what
are you excited about for Season 4 of Tiger Sisters?
We have so many amazing episodes coming to you soon for Season 4.
I love that where we're turning to kind of like this format
where we're talking to one another.
We do like us. It's going to be a lot of this.
We were experimenting with Season 3 with some interviews,
which I think we're really successful.
We were able to get the most out of them and really get all this
incredible insight. But I think, you know, as we're
experimenting with formats, we'd love to hear from you what you
guys like to see for Season 4, where we're turning to more like
topic based conversations. We have some coming up about
networking, about public speaking, about Business School
and giving you basically everything that we've learned
over the last few years and also our experiences working in in
the professional workplace. So all that to say, I'm really
excited for the topics and also drawing from some of the
questions that you guys had that are the most burning.
Yeah, I'm so excited for Season 4 because it's essentially a
culmination of everything we've experimented with and everything
we've learned over the last three seasons.
And we are also still trying to line up some interviews for
Season 4. And we're also going to be
applying learnings from this past season.
And already one of them is that we can be a lot more sort of
nimble in the interview questions and have them be a lot
more personalized for the interviews coming up.
So I am super excited. So many more learnings to come.
A lot of explainer videos actually, which people have been
asking for, and I'm really excited to get out there.
Please share what you enjoyed or what you're looking Word 2 for
Season 4 and that is a wrap. Yay.
Thank you guys so much for an incredible Season 3.
We'll see you very soon for Season 4.
And as always, Please remember to like, comment, and subscribe.
And we'd so appreciate it if you can share this episode with
someone who might find it helpful.
And to rate US five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Thanks guys. See you next time.
Bye.