1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,280 Welcome to the Season 3 finale of The Tiger Sisters. 2 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:07,240 In this season, Jean and I were so lucky and grateful that we're 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:12,400 able to talk to billionaires, investors, CEO's, people who are 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,360 just so successful in their fields and they were able to 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,040 give us some incredible advice. So this is our bonus wrap up 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,200 episode where we talk about the main takeaways and we're also 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,280 going to go through some of our more normal segments like roses 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,480 and thorns, all the things that you know and love. 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,240 I'm Cherie. I'm Jane. 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:44,920 And we're the Tiger sisters. Stick around till the end of the 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,680 episode for not only all of our favorite parts, but also our top 12 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,400 learnings from all of our guests this season. 13 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:52,600 And we'll get started right after this break. 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,760 Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,760 Sisters matcha.com. We have sweatshirts and T-shirts 16 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,440 that we designed ourselves. Go check it out and please rate 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,280 US five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,960 These ratings are so important for the distribution and 19 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:09,080 survival of Tiger Sisters Podcast. 20 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,920 Thank you for your support. And we're back. 21 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,400 So let's get started on roses and thorns, which we haven't 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,120 done for a while. Cherie, can you kick us off? 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,720 I would say my rose is that I'm in my most like state that I've 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,680 been in a very long time in terms of working out. 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,720 I, if you guys have seen our previous episodes, I talk about 26 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,560 working out in our health and diet and exercise episode. 27 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,640 And I have a challenge like a New Year's resolution to go to 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,920 the gym 30 days in a row, which is really hard or just being 29 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,800 active 30 days in a row. So it's been difficult to like 30 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,080 achieve that goal, which is not a bad thing, but like it really 31 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,720 keeps me motivated to have that internal goal because now I'm 32 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,080 trying to go to the gym almost every single day, which like, 33 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,800 you know, I've made it 10 days in a row, skip the day clock 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,040 reset. I've made it 2 weeks in a row, 35 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,640 skip the day clock reset. But it's totally fine because at 36 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,960 the end of the day, it like just motivates me to be really 37 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,320 active. So I'm really happy. 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,680 That's like my rose is that like, Oh my gosh, like I am 39 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,640 getting to a very active and like probably my best physical 40 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:18,520 shape that I've been in a long time and a mini sub rose is that 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,840 I can see my ABS for the first time like ever. 42 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,680 Like the share with people? I have like baby ABS. 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,760 No, this is not a show and tell. This is a rose and thorn. 44 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,920 But like, I like me like baby ABS, which I'm really proud of 45 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:37,120 because I feel like it's just my consistency showing up. 46 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,960 It is a lagging indicator of the work that I've been putting in 47 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,640 since like January. So I'm happy to see the progress 48 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:47,320 there. And so next, my thorn is that I 49 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,000 feel like I'm going through a pretty big life transition. 50 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,560 And it's something that's been like on my mind recently where 51 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,840 I'm also going on dates, which is really fun and exciting. 52 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,040 And they've been positive experiences as well. 53 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,000 But things are getting more serious, I would say. 54 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,200 And like the conversations that I'm having with, you know, the 55 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,080 people that I've gone on dates with where it's just like in my 56 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,480 20s, I hadn't had like a serious relationship that it would talk 57 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,840 about engagement. But now, like, things are a lot 58 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,520 heavier where I'm like, oh, I'm in my late 20s approaching 30s. 59 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,600 Like the conversations that we're having are not just like, 60 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,120 ha ha, he he fun conversations. They're a bit more serious about 61 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,320 like what we want in the future if we're compatible with each 62 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,040 other. And those conversations can be 63 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,760 fun, but they just, it just feels like that there's a lot 64 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,640 more at stake now that those conversations are happening. 65 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:38,920 And it's something I've been reflecting on. 66 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,960 It's just like, yeah, it just feels like a life transition. 67 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,280 Like I haven't been here before to like, have these 68 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,360 conversations. They're a bit harder to have. 69 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,520 And I have to really dig deep, show more vulnerability. 70 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:57,480 And I was like, oh, this is messy sometimes, you know? 71 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,920 Oh, honey. So yeah, it's like not ha, ha, 72 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,040 he he in my early to mid 20s where we're just, you know, 73 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,080 frolicking in the Meadow with flowers. 74 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,080 No, now we're just like, if there's a baby in the future, 75 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,240 will you wake up in the middle of the night to take care of the 76 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,880 baby so that I can rest? I'm like, Oh my God, these are 77 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,800 too serious of conversations. But I think it's growing up. 78 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,480 It's a part of it. So sorry, not to be a downer, 79 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,600 but I'm like God this is it's hard. 80 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,080 Maybe I'm regressing because I'm back to ha ha hee hee. 81 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,520 And I'm, yeah, you're regressing. 82 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,600 And then I'm going this way. We're we're going like that, 83 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:38,920 yeah. I'm all ha ha hee hee. 84 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,360 Yeah, so as you should be after the serious conversations you've 85 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,440 had for the last. Oh my God, that's true. 86 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,880 So enjoy your ha ha hee hee. I will. 87 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:50,680 So, Gene, what is your rose and your? 88 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,440 Thorn Yes. So I'll start with my thorn. 89 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,600 And it is just that a over the last month and in the next 90 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,000 couple weeks, 2 of my really good friends are moving away 91 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,480 from LA. One actually both of them I know 92 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,080 from undergrad, but one I've known for and been really close 93 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,280 to since literally freshman year. 94 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:15,560 So that's like, what, like, I don't know, almost 20 years. 95 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,440 And the other one I got to know better over the last couple 96 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,800 years. And one has moved away to New 97 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,280 York and now one is moving to Alaska. 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,520 So guys, I got range and friends. 99 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,440 OK, First of all, she's got range. 100 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,000 So yeah, there's just kind of like a bit of like a morning 101 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:41,760 that comes with that because one of them, the one that's moving 102 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,800 to Alaska, he was actually the first person that I talked to 103 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,600 after everything like, went down with my breakup. 104 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,200 And like, I mean, I say that to basically illustrate how close 105 00:05:55,200 --> 00:06:01,280 of a friend he is. And it's just going to be sad to 106 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:04,640 not have him around. And I don't know, like, we would 107 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,880 just do things all the time. Like we would have, you know, 108 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,280 dinners and nights. And it's just like your friends 109 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,400 who you do like low key but really fun things with and you 110 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,960 just really, really deeply enjoy your time together. 111 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,720 So that's my thorn, but I guess I could visit him in Alaska. 112 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:29,360 True Plan a trip. Around it yeah, OK, that's 113 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,480 that's yeah, that's that's the upside to it. 114 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,160 And then the the Rose I was going to talk about was just 115 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:42,680 that as you guys may have heard, I've started dating again, which 116 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,840 has just turned out to be actually like really fun and 117 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:51,160 positive. And like one question that I had 118 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,280 because I haven't dated in eight plus years basically. 119 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,280 So one question I had going back into it is I was sort of 120 00:06:58,280 --> 00:07:01,520 wondering if it would be as fun as it used to be or if it was 121 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,960 going to feel like a totally different, a new paradigm, you 122 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,320 know, since I'm so much older than I was last time almost 10 123 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,160 years older. But no, it's it's been fun so 124 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,440 far and it's just really encouraging. 125 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,960 That's the roads. I think it's good to have a 126 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,440 positive experience getting back out there because it can be 127 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,920 really scary, yeah. So it's nice to leave it feeling 128 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:34,520 just happy and positive and excited and hopeful because I 129 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,840 know that like talking to some girlfriends, if they've gone on 130 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,240 like really bad dates, like multiple in a row, it kind of 131 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,560 just like little cuts kind of crush the spirit a bit when it 132 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,960 comes to dating. Yeah. 133 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,160 And I'm also just really grateful that I'm having a 134 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,440 positive experience because I was sort of like so unsure 135 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,080 because it was such a long period of not dating that I was 136 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,680 really not like nervous, but just like the the unknown was 137 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,120 more vast than it ever has been. But now she knows. 138 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,400 Now she is all. Knowing Yeah. 139 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,440 So yeah, I'm happy about that. It's exciting. 140 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,120 I mean, who knows? Like, I'm sure it'll be like a 141 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,480 roller coaster overtime and there'll be times when I'll be 142 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,920 sad and I'll share that with you guys too. 143 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:28,800 But yeah, for now, I feel positive about it, Sissy. 144 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,440 And next, we'll talk about our main learnings from all of 145 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,600 Season 3. Hey everyone, quick break to 146 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,000 share something special. Sisters Matcha. 147 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,760 We've launched limited batches of ceremonial grade single 148 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,840 estate single cultivar matcha straight from the family farm 149 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,360 Sheree worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and 150 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,240 crafted with intention. Head to Sisters matcha.com to 151 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,360 grab yours before it sells out. Make Matcha your daily ritual 152 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,160 for lasting energy and focus. OK, one concept that I noticed 153 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:03,520 resonated a lot with all of our subscribers is the idea of Be 154 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,560 dumb to succeed. That was episode with Vutran 155 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,360 that maybe Cherie will put an infographic of here. 156 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,880 She's not using her arms, so I'm not sure. 157 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,640 Oh, there we go. She's committed. 158 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,960 Yeah, that one was like a big hit. 159 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,680 Yeah, I think it was. It's also just so 160 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:24,800 counterintuitive. Vu is such a smart, intelligent 161 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,160 person, but it's so funny to like, see him throughout the 162 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,520 conversation. And his, like, main take away 163 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,600 was like, you should go Max dumb. 164 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,920 And I think it's just like, so counterintuitive. 165 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,960 But I think there's a lot to dig in there. 166 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,520 Like #1 it is such a good saying to like, go into a conversation 167 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,760 and go to 1st principles and be like, what exactly are we 168 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,800 talking about here? And instead of like being at 169 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,880 like love level 10, you go all the way back down to level 0. 170 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,040 You ask why over and over again so that you can understand at 171 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:55,840 its. Core what? 172 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,400 People are talking about or what the concept is because something 173 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,280 Vu said that I thought was really interesting was like, if 174 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,520 you try to be a little bit smart, you end up as midwit and 175 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,000 then you tell them you end up like. 176 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,840 He said midwit. Yeah, he said, midwit. 177 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,560 So like, it's better. I've heard that phrase before. 178 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:16,080 Oh, really? It's something that people use 179 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,440 in a very derogatory term, like someone who's like. 180 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,840 What? Yeah, like just means mid. 181 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:27,480 Like mid smart, like if you try to come off as smart you end up 182 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,360 at midwit and then that's why it's always best to go. 183 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,160 Look into this term. Go to 1st principles and go Max 184 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,960 dumb. Yeah, I agree with that because 185 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,760 I feel like I've seen that in a lot of instances where if people 186 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,200 are just actually, I think this phrase maybe is sometimes 187 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,520 overused but intellectually honest. 188 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,440 And you're just like, you know what? 189 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,960 I really don't understand this thing that you're saying. 190 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,160 And I can't, we can't move forward in this conversation 191 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,520 unless I actually understand what you're talking about. 192 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,480 And then they dig into it and like actually ask the questions 193 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,480 and get something explained to them that I think has a lot more 194 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,520 people give that a lot more respect than you just kind of 195 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,600 like trying to roll with it and trying to sort of pretend that 196 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,280 you actually know what people are talking about. 197 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:22,000 Yeah, the smartest people I know are the ones who are least 198 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,320 afraid to say they do not know or do not understand a concept. 199 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,920 I think it takes a lot of self-confidence, a lot of 200 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,120 bravery, and a lot of just like accepting like, oh, I don't 201 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,240 understand this. I know I'm not a dumb person. 202 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,400 So could you please explain it to me in a different way? 203 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,040 Because I think just like, honestly, the worst people that 204 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,240 I've come into contact with are the people who are like are just 205 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,760 pretending, pretending to know because that doesn't help 206 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,280 anyone. Yeah. 207 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,000 And I also think that the smartest people that I know are 208 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,720 ones that are always, I think they always acknowledge the fact 209 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,120 that there's always more to learn about something. 210 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,600 And they pretty much like come into any conversation with being 211 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,440 like, you know what? I'm really not the expert on 212 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,520 XYZ. Like even though I'm literally a 213 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,680 billionaire investor. For example, Jeremy Liu, when he 214 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,720 was telling us about his hot take, one hot take that he has 215 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,200 is about nationalizing the investment into AI so that we 216 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,920 can actually progress faster as a country, meaning the United 217 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,760 States then the other superpowers in AI. 218 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,520 And in part of the conversation I remember him saying like, oh, 219 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:29,840 you know what? I actually have a lot more 220 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,400 research and understanding to do on this specific topic. 221 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:37,360 But from what I know, this is my opinion and my opinion is a 222 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,680 strong opinion weekly held. So I think those two concepts 223 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:45,440 actually tie together the idea of Max dumb go Max dumb, and 224 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,920 then the second concept of strong opinion weekly held. 225 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,920 And then also like acknowledging, hey, there's so 226 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,840 much more research, there's so much more I have to learn about 227 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:54,880 this area. Yeah. 228 00:12:55,040 --> 00:13:00,760 It kind of just reminds me of me when I was in college and I was 229 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,320 studying computer science. I remember being so afraid of 230 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,840 looking dumb or so afraid to raise my hand and ask a 231 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,000 clarifying question because I was not in a psychologically 232 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,040 safe environment to do so. And I just, like, had very low 233 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,040 confidence in myself. So, like, I didn't want to look 234 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,680 dumb in front of my peers, my classmates. 235 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,440 And like the professors were like for the most part very, 236 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,760 very nice except for one professor that made me feel very 237 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,120 dumb. But like they're all very 238 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,000 accommodating one-on-one. I would go to the professor's 239 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,240 office hours. They'd be super nice. 240 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,600 But like in front of other people, I didn't want to seem 241 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,680 dumb. And that mindset held me back so 242 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:39,240 much like caring what other people thought or not wanting to 243 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,440 look dumb. This can be applied in the 244 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:46,120 classroom and like in Business School too and in the workplace 245 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,600 like I don't know how many times like people are just like biting 246 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,600 their tongue or not asking a question because they don't want 247 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,520 to seem like they don't have it together. 248 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,960 But honestly, at the end of the day, if you don't speak up, 249 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,960 you're only hurting yourself and chances are other people have 250 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,760 the same question that you do. Yeah, and this is also her 251 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,040 villain origin story because then she became the president of 252 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,520 Columbia Women in Computer Science Club. 253 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:08,760 She was like a massive club at Columbia. 254 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,440 True. And you guys threw this like, 255 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,360 huge conference. I remember. 256 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,480 Yeah, we had conferences and networking events, but yeah, 257 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,960 that was my villain origin story because like, most of my classes 258 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,280 were dominated by men at the time. 259 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,280 And yeah, office hours were not very nice. 260 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,440 People were pretty cutthroat in computer science. 261 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,160 So it's nice to have a community where you feel where I felt like 262 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:31,880 I could go to and feel very safe. 263 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,600 The second main take away that I thought was super impactful over 264 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,560 the entire season was something that Imran Khan said, which was 265 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:46,280 basically the equivalent of having emotional control. 266 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,680 How would you put it? Emotional regulation Self. 267 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,720 Management. Emotional self regulation. 268 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,960 Yeah, exactly. So basically Imran was saying 269 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,120 that his whole entire life, just the way that his demeanor is, is 270 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,800 that he never gets too excited about anything. 271 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,080 And then he never gets too depressed about anything. 272 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,400 And for him, I think it was much more of like a natural 273 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,760 personality trait, but he attributes that personality 274 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,160 trait to really helping him succeed in a lot of ways. 275 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,360 And you can kind of see how it works out in like, you know, he 276 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,160 was an investor. He like worked on like huge, 277 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,400 massive deals. He was the chief strategy 278 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,520 officer at Snapchat and like brought us all the way through 279 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,720 like IPOIPO and like major roller coasters in in the stock 280 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,800 price. And I could see why that would 281 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,840 be something that is a really successful person's like source 282 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,440 of power. Just the ability to kind of like 283 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:47,720 ride through any waves, never get too overly excited and never 284 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,560 get depressed. It's a very like level headed, 285 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:57,160 like inner Zen perhaps where like he's able to sort through 286 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,280 all the highs and lows without like, you know, throwing himself 287 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,800 and feeling every single bump along the way. 288 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,160 Yeah, that helps you be more successful in the long term 289 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,240 because then you don't get dragged down by failures. 290 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,600 Yeah, I really liked. Imran's failure story and also 291 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,000 Jeremy Liu's failure story because those were the two 292 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:24,120 people that explicitly talked about getting fired really early 293 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,800 on in their career, which is like a really powerful thing to 294 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,800 share, especially to like 2 younger people and their 295 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,200 careers. I candidly have never been 296 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,480 fired, but like, if I were fired, I know that it would be 297 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,160 probably one of the worst days for me in my life. 298 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,160 I could just only imagine it, you know, like I would be a 299 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:44,600 complete mess. I'd crash out. 300 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,520 Like I'd be really sad. But it's like really encouraging 301 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,280 to see that like these successful. 302 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:56,320 I was, I would say Titans of industry were fired at one point 303 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,640 and not only did they bounce back, but they had massively 304 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,760 successful careers after that. It, you know, it wasn't maybe it 305 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,280 was a low for them, but they were able to grow their careers 306 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,160 in such a meaningful way. And also now look back on the 307 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,359 firing story and see how that related to them getting their 308 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,040 next like stepping stone to like really jump off and succeed. 309 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,040 Yeah, and I want to also call out that they were both actually 310 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,119 fired, like not laid off. Like it wasn't like their entire 311 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:28,960 org was, you know, laid off or something. 312 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,760 They were specifically, they both said fire. 313 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,760 Performance. Performance reasons. 314 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,720 And so that's like, even it makes the anecdote even more 315 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,720 powerful, right? They're basically being like, 316 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:44,640 yeah, I sucked like I was. Bad from one reason or another. 317 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,120 And then I was fired. But then like, look at us now, 318 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,960 no. No, I mean like they kind of 319 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,240 were just like, yeah, we sucked. We didn't know how bad we were 320 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,440 and we were let go. Yeah, yeah, I like that. 321 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,400 So is that do you think like that's like 1/3 take away? 322 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,360 That's a third lesson is that you can always bounce back from 323 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:07,960 anything, from being fired. I don't. 324 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:09,520 I think that's just like a generalization. 325 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,000 I don't think everyone will bounce back or can bounce back. 326 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,480 I don't know, it sounds like a pretty traumatic thing. 327 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,920 But I guess my take away from those stories is that there are 328 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,120 many paths that you can go on when things don't go your way, 329 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:27,520 when things seem really shitty. Like it might be shitty in the 330 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,840 moment, but it's not going to be the thing that like defines you. 331 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,160 You don't have to make it. The the life defining thing is 332 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,960 that I got fired, but they were able to really learn from what 333 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,400 had happened. And their next opportunity was 334 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,320 from that really shitty moment. Like it was born from that 335 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,640 shitty moment, which gives me a lot of hope that like for the 336 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,000 shitty moments that I'll have in the future, no doubt they'll 337 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,760 they will be there for whatever reason. 338 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,280 Like it might not be the worst thing in the entire world, even 339 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,200 though in the moment it might feel that way. 340 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,160 I think another way to think about it or another way to put 341 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,800 it is that life is long, careers are long. 342 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,440 And had these two people not specifically told us those 343 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,920 stories because we asked them, we said, what is one of your 344 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,480 failures? Tell us about your failures. 345 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,760 And they told us that story. Had we not asked them, like, 346 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000 maybe the world would have never known that they both were fired 347 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,320 at one point, you know? But that's not something that 348 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,440 you just like randomly share there with people and any sort 349 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,760 of article written about them. It's a blip. 350 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,280 It's like the tiniest blip in the most insanely successful 351 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,840 careers for both of them. Like you never would have. 352 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:39,720 No, it's because no one talks about it. 353 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,800 Yeah. Yeah, but like it didn't even 354 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,440 really, there was no like negative consequence of it. 355 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,920 Yeah, overall. Yeah, in the long run of the 356 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,120 career. So that's just. 357 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:52,400 I don't know, I'm sort of like, just like repeating it for 358 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,080 myself. You know what I mean? 359 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,600 To just be like, oh, like we never would have known it. 360 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,800 Never. It would never be mentioned in 361 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,120 their like LinkedIn or like any sort of like Forbes article or 362 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:06,600 Time, Time magazine article written about them. 363 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,320 Yeah. So it's like fine to fail. 364 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:17,680 Yeah, I feel like also like greatness lies ahead of us and 365 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,840 greatness lies ahead of you. Yes. 366 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,840 Amen. Amen. 367 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:27,600 And then the third and last main take away that came from Jonah 368 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,480 Goodheart is that it is okay to pause. 369 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,200 Yeah, I really enjoyed this part of the conversation with Jonah 370 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,360 because I think when we think about entrepreneurs and founders 371 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,280 are really successful people, what we see on the outside, 372 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,520 especially in the articles, is that like, they're on the grind. 373 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,400 Like everyone's grinding, they're on the wheel. 374 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,920 Like, you know, it's always go, go, go. 375 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,840 I think that is the impression that, like we see in media and, 376 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,280 you know, in culture. But honestly, I really like 377 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,520 Jonah's advice. He's like, it's OK to take a 378 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,240 pause because in that pause, you're not only taking care of 379 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,160 yourself, you're taking care of your like mental health, your 380 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,040 physical health. And in that you're helping 381 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,640 yourself get even further. If you are able to pause and 382 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,000 take a moment for yourself, it's OK to pause. 383 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,720 And it was nice to get permission, I guess, from such a 384 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,000 successful person. I think it's the concept. 385 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:28,040 Also some people say it's the idea of slow down to speed up 386 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:33,840 that like sometimes you need to take a rest and like walk away 387 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:39,560 from the problem at hand to then be able to process it and see it 388 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,560 in a different light. Something that I've been 389 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,760 thinking about is that I move a mile a minute or like I'm 390 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,560 someone who really likes to take action. 391 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,720 I'm someone who's like go, go, go myself. 392 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,680 I'm just like, what is the next thing that I can do to move this 393 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,880 forward? A lot of the times I don't give 394 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,560 myself enough grace and enough time to really think things 395 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,880 through and to let it marinate. David Shim talked about this in 396 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,800 his episode. It's a little bit of a different 397 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,000 context, but he talked about it in the context of public 398 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,600 speaking that like whenever he's preparing for a speech, he 399 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,400 always likes to take time away from the speech itself so it can 400 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,320 process in the background while he is doing other things. 401 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,800 But I think that like, the underlying concept is the same. 402 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,760 It's like you can step away from what you're doing so that you 403 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,160 can really bring your best self when you step back into it. 404 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,080 Yeah, I love that phrasing of it. 405 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,560 And I think what you were saying before, especially when it 406 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,040 applies to entrepreneurship is so true in terms of like what 407 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,040 I'm so used to thinking like coming into entrepreneurship. 408 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,160 I remember I have a lot of very, very, very extremely successful 409 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,840 friends who founders and entrepreneurs and back in the 410 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,920 day when it was like very much the Silicon Valley mindset and 411 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,040 it was the like, you know, founder is everything mindset. 412 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,160 I remember they used to be like, Oh yeah, like we sleep in the 413 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,280 warehouse. We like sleep in the office. 414 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,720 Sleep under our desks. Yeah, we sleep under our desks. 415 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,240 And so for me, you know, ever since I entered my professional 416 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,560 life, I always thought that that was the concept of an 417 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,760 entrepreneur. That was the concept of a, a 418 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,600 startup founder, is that you had to be that exact archetype, 419 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,560 otherwise you could never be successful. 420 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,680 And then I also, I also thought that you had to be a, a, a tech 421 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,320 entrepreneur in order to be a startup founder basically, which 422 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,200 is obviously not the case. So I think that it can be 423 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,680 successful depending on depending on the like economic 424 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,200 conditions, but it's not it's not the best path or the right 425 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,960 path for everyone. I like it. 426 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,680 Slow down to speed up. All right, so wrapping up this 427 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,080 episode, one last question and one last topic is Cherie, what 428 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,520 are you excited about for Season 4 of Tiger Sisters? 429 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,000 We have so many amazing episodes coming to you soon for Season 4. 430 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,040 I love that where we're turning to kind of like this format 431 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,560 where we're talking to one another. 432 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,320 We do like us. It's going to be a lot of this. 433 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,080 We were experimenting with Season 3 with some interviews, 434 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,880 which I think we're really successful. 435 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,840 We were able to get the most out of them and really get all this 436 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,840 incredible insight. But I think, you know, as we're 437 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,200 experimenting with formats, we'd love to hear from you what you 438 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,560 guys like to see for Season 4, where we're turning to more like 439 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,880 topic based conversations. We have some coming up about 440 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,000 networking, about public speaking, about Business School 441 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,080 and giving you basically everything that we've learned 442 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,120 over the last few years and also our experiences working in in 443 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,720 the professional workplace. So all that to say, I'm really 444 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,280 excited for the topics and also drawing from some of the 445 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,000 questions that you guys had that are the most burning. 446 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,080 Yeah, I'm so excited for Season 4 because it's essentially a 447 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,560 culmination of everything we've experimented with and everything 448 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,160 we've learned over the last three seasons. 449 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,720 And we are also still trying to line up some interviews for 450 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,600 Season 4. And we're also going to be 451 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,360 applying learnings from this past season. 452 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,080 And already one of them is that we can be a lot more sort of 453 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,440 nimble in the interview questions and have them be a lot 454 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,960 more personalized for the interviews coming up. 455 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,360 So I am super excited. So many more learnings to come. 456 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,760 A lot of explainer videos actually, which people have been 457 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,280 asking for, and I'm really excited to get out there. 458 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,840 Please share what you enjoyed or what you're looking Word 2 for 459 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,960 Season 4 and that is a wrap. Yay. 460 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,600 Thank you guys so much for an incredible Season 3. 461 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,160 We'll see you very soon for Season 4. 462 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,160 And as always, Please remember to like, comment, and subscribe. 463 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,360 And we'd so appreciate it if you can share this episode with 464 00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:03,840 someone who might find it helpful. 465 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:09,360 And to rate US five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. 466 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,760 Thanks guys. See you next time. 467 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:12,760 Bye.