1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,040 They told us to work hard, speak up and smile on Zoom, but 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,360 somehow the wrong people still get promoted. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,560 Because in today's workplace, it's not about what you do, it's 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,600 also about how you're perceived. Because you can be great and 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,200 amazing and perfect and also invisible at the same time. 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,720 We're sitting with Lorraine and we're talking about the one word 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,680 that makes people 93% more likely to say yes. 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,960 The unconscious Zoom habits that are silently ruining your 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,000 credibility and how to play the game without looking like a suck 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,520 up. Whether you're early in your 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,080 career or leading A-Team, today we'll talk about the blueprint 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,360 of becoming magnetic. By the end of this episode, you 13 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,480 won't just know how to fix your body language or speak with more 14 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:48,000 confidence. You'll walk away with Lorraine's 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,760 exact steps for building executive presence and showing 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,920 up like a leader, no matter your title. 17 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:55,960 I'm Cherie. I'm Jean. 18 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,320 I'm Lorraine. And we're the Tiger sisters. 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,720 Hey friends, it's Sheree and Jean from Tiger Sisters. 20 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,000 We need your help. We just dropped our very first 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,080 audience survey and it's actually really important to us. 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,840 Why? Because we want to create the 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,120 best content for you and learning more about you helps us 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,080 to do that. It takes less than 5 minutes to 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,880 fill out and as a thank you, we're giving away $100.00 gift 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,400 card at the end of the season to 1 listener who fills out the 27 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,000 survey. The link is in the video 28 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,800 description, please fill it out. Thank you for being a part of 29 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,200 this with us. Tiger Sisters is just getting we 30 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,720 started. Welcome to Tiger Sisters Podcast 31 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,280 where we talk about money, power and love. 32 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,840 Today we're talking to Lorraine Kaylee, LinkedIn top voice and 33 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,920 author of Unforgettable Presence. 34 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,320 We're breaking down the unspoken rules of the workplace on how to 35 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,760 get seen, heard, and promoted. Welcome to the Tiger Sisters 36 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,200 podcast, Lorraine. Thank you so much for having me. 37 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,600 I'm really. Excited to be here. 38 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,040 We're so excited that you're here it. 39 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:06,760 Happened. Yay. 40 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,199 Could you please introduce yourself to the audience in your 41 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:11,560 own words? Of course. 42 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,920 Well, I'm Lorraine. I spent the first decade of my 43 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:17,680 career leading editorial teams at various tech companies, most 44 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,000 notably at LinkedIn, where I met you, Cherie. 45 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,840 And now I am a keynote speaker, course creator and author, as 46 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,080 you mentioned, and also a content creator. 47 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,040 Yay. So excited I get to dive right 48 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:30,240 in. Yeah, same here. 49 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,360 OK, Lorraine, in your book you say that first impressions form 50 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,920 in as little as 110th of a second. 51 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,600 So what are people getting wrong in that 110th of a second? 52 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,960 A lot of people are not thinking about the non verbal. 53 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,760 I think when we are about to meet someone, we think about our 54 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,960 introduction. We know what we want to say. 55 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,400 We're not thinking about what our body is saying. 56 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,040 So for example, there's the obvious things like you need to 57 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,760 have good posture, you want to make eye contact, not have the 58 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,280 dead fish handshake, right? So have a solid handshake. 59 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,120 And then there's other things as well that we don't think about. 60 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,200 So let's say I am doing a job interview, right? 61 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:09,480 And Sheree, you're going to interview me. 62 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,000 You come out of your office to meet me and I'm on my cell 63 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,160 phone. That small moment even that 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,680 takes me to look up, right? Like you're already informing an 65 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,920 impression, right? I'm I'm looking distracted or 66 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:20,840 phones signal distraction usually. 67 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,960 So something as simple as that could also be negatively 68 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,640 impacting our impression, even like before we've actually said 69 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:28,680 anything. And there's other examples too, 70 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,160 where perhaps we're on a video call, and I don't know if this 71 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,440 has happened to you, but I will get on a call with someone and 72 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,840 they will be like, oh, just one second. 73 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,840 I just have to like send off this message really quick. 74 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,800 I mean, that's a little bit longer than 110th of a second, 75 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,200 but that's still setting up the call. 76 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,600 Not on the best footing. I don't have a good impression. 77 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,640 I don't have a good feeling. The initial reaction is, oh, 78 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:50,800 you're not paying attention to me. 79 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,560 Like you're not really present. Yeah, that actually reminds me, 80 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,800 I think first impressions, obviously in the professional 81 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,440 setting, how you show up, how you bring yourself like what 82 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,320 you're doing, the distraction part. 83 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,280 But I also remember listening to a podcast and is talking about 84 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,880 first impressions in a romantic setting and apparently on dates, 85 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,960 Like if your person who you're going on date with goes to the 86 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,880 bathroom, you're not supposed to look at your phone while they're 87 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,600 away. Because if they come back and 88 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,880 you're looking at your phone, it signals like, distraction or 89 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,680 perhaps that you're not interested on, like, a very, 90 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,320 like, subconscious level, but also in a romantic place, like, 91 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:29,840 you're not supposed to seem distracted. 92 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:31,360 That's what the podcast was saying, yeah. 93 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,760 I thought you were going to take it in a different direction. 94 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,240 I thought you were going to say that like when you go on a first 95 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,840 date, you kind of know in the 1st 110th of a second if it's a 96 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:45,600 no or is that just me? I think that just me. 97 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,960 For a few minutes, yeah, yeah. No, I feel like, you know, like 98 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,680 instinctually in the first second. 99 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,160 If it's a no don't off, it's definitely. 100 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,000 Yeah, yeah. And also non verbal cues like 101 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:57,720 right? Yes. 102 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,520 Yes, totally. Yeah. 103 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,400 Like if someone has like bad posture when I first meet that, 104 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:08,240 you know, like a date, I'm like. No confidence signals no 105 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:08,880 confidence. Yeah. 106 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:10,800 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 107 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:11,640 Yeah. So whether it's like a 108 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,880 professional setting, romantic setting, like it applies, Yeah. 109 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,960 Continuing on first impressions, you call out RBF, which you call 110 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,520 resting business phase. I think other people might know 111 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,560 it for something else similar, but it's a major career killer 112 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,720 that could be silent. What's the fix for RBF, 113 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,920 especially in the workplace? And and describe it what it is 114 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,200 first. Yeah, resting business phase, 115 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,840 we've all seen it. Sometimes maybe we're the ones 116 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:43,160 doing it right. We're on a call and what happens 117 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,400 is especially virtually, we're usually at home, we're relaxed. 118 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,440 So we get on a call and we're just not thinking about our 119 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,840 facial expressions. So we're either neutral or 120 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:55,920 looking kind of angry. And on video, those feelings are 121 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,960 going to be even more magnified, right. 122 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,760 And So what RBF is or the antidote to RBF, it sounds 123 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:06,040 really obvious, but first is to smile and be aware of your 124 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,640 facial expressions. I think just so many of us just 125 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,120 aren't thinking about it because again, we're at home, we're 126 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,520 comfortable. And so smiling is, is an 127 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,800 important one. And then there's also again on 128 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,960 verbal cues and affirmations that you can use on video. 129 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,640 So nodding your head slowly, maybe raising your eyebrows if 130 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,400 someone said something interesting, and again, smiling, 131 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,760 right, if what you're what they're saying resonates with 132 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,400 you. So there's those little things 133 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,520 that you can do to break free from that RBF and show that 134 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,360 you're engaged. Because especially if we're 135 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,480 virtual, we only have so many touch points in a given day. 136 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,880 And so we want to make sure that our video presence is allowing 137 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,560 us to show up in the way that we want to show up. 138 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,840 I can't help but feel like this advice is especially pertinent 139 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:51,320 for women because that's sort of what is expected of you in 140 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,400 society to kind of like exude. I think we'll get into this 141 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,000 later, but like exude a certain level of warmth. 142 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,120 And I think a lot of women naturally or are like societally 143 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,240 trained to do that in person. So like if you're not conveying 144 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,240 that on Zoom or it's harder to convey that on Zoom, then people 145 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,000 are sort of like perceived that negatively versus a man. 146 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,000 I think men are, you know, oftentimes expected to be more 147 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,440 stoic societally. So like, it's not as much of A 148 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,080 like a Ding against you as a man, but I totally see how 149 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,360 that's very applicable as a woman. 150 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,440 Again, something to be aware of, like we don't want to go so over 151 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,600 the top and do something that feels unnatural. 152 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,280 But again, it's perception is reality, right? 153 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,960 So how are people perceiving you? 154 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,720 And you want to be aware of that and make adjustments 155 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,600 accordingly, Yeah. It's something within your 156 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,840 control that you can try and change. 157 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,680 Yeah, yeah. I love that I'm like, on one 158 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,880 hand, it's so exhausting to like, it's like so, so 159 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,280 exhausting. But then on the other hand, I'm 160 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,840 like, well I would rather know. Like I'd rather be aware and 161 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:01,320 have this information and then be able to like affect how 162 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,400 people perceive me. I don't wanna just have no 163 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:04,520 self-awareness. Right. 164 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,520 I think over time too, it will become more natural. 165 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,080 Of course, if your natural face is always kind of angry, going 166 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,960 against that, it's gonna take a little time to get used to. 167 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,560 But I think any skill you practice and it'll become more 168 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,040 natural. Yeah, OK. 169 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,720 So, Lorraine, you give scripts in your book to talk about how 170 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,200 to talk about your accomplishments without seeming 171 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,920 like you're bragging. So how do you do this? 172 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,919 The first thing to keep in mind is that we need to be vocal 173 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:37,960 about our work. I think so many of us, and 174 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,679 myself included, you think hard work speaks for itself, but if 175 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,000 no one knows about it, what's it all for, right? 176 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,120 So we need to know first and foremost that we do in fact have 177 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,040 to talk about our work and make sure that we're being visible. 178 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,920 So when it comes to advocating for ourselves, to talking about 179 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,120 our work, there's a few different things that you can 180 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,280 do. So one thing, for example, there 181 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,720 was data in Harvard Business Review that showed that when you 182 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,240 use more collaboratively language like we sour, you're 183 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,680 actually seen as more senior and more impressive than someone who 184 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:09,440 perhaps uses a lot of I statements. 185 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,600 People who use I statements are going to be seen as more junior, 186 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,720 for example. There's other things that you 187 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,920 can do as well if you are uncomfortable talking about your 188 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,920 work agreement in terms of team learnings, right? 189 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,480 How is this going to help everyone else? 190 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,280 Like I'm proud I did this. I think this can be helpful to 191 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,440 the rest of the team. And so again, it's more of that 192 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,040 collaborative spirit that I think makes it a little bit 193 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,200 easier to talk about things. And then always when, whenever 194 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,200 you can ground it in data facts, right? 195 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,600 No one can really argue with that. 196 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,440 Tie it to the company's bottom line. 197 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:44,040 Every executive, every senior leader will be so happy if you 198 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,840 show them that you are doing work that's helping the 199 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:48,880 business, right? So I think when you have those 200 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,840 mindset shifts and you reframe things in that way, it can be a 201 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,240 little bit more comfortable for the people who are perhaps a 202 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,480 little bit more hesitant. At LinkedIn, where we both 203 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,400 worked, we had a. Really not sponsored Not. 204 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,160 Sponsored. But maybe. 205 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,680 But perhaps. In the future, LinkedIn Premium 206 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,760 well, so we had a very clear outlet of how to do this in our 207 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,400 company, which is there are these emails that teams could 208 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,960 send announcing some of their wins and successes. 209 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,280 If a company doesn't do that, or if an individual is looking to 210 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,960 gain more visibility, what are some places where people can do 211 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,560 so? Like putting into place some of 212 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:31,240 the things you just suggested. I love that you brought up those 213 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,320 emails because when I went to Prezi, right after I immediately 214 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,400 asked my boss, I was like, how can I get like, how can I e-mail 215 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:38,800 everyone? How can I get everyone on this 216 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,760 listserv? They didn't have an e-mail like 217 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,320 that or system like that. So what I did was we did have a 218 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,760 company intranet, so that actually reached the whole 219 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,480 company, which was even better than a specific e-mail listserv. 220 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,840 So finding the place where everyone's going to be, asking 221 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,840 your manager, where are the senior leaders, the decision 222 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,760 makers showing up? I think that's a really good 223 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,640 first step. And then you don't have to 224 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,920 always be so big and so wide reaching necessarily, right? 225 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,400 You want to make sure you're reaching the right people at the 226 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,680 right time. So for example, that might be, 227 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:10,680 oh, there's a slack channel with the CEO or slack channel with 228 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:12,720 the the marketing leader who I want to reach. 229 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,920 And it's not going to be our immediate small channel, but 230 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,080 it's going to be one that reaches a few more people. 231 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,360 So that would be a really wonderful Ave. 232 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,040 And then remember that we don't want to just say things once, 233 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,440 but we want to try to find different places that we can 234 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,000 repeat ourselves because everyone's so busy. 235 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,200 Some of us are in perfect person, some of us are remote, 236 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,120 and so maybe half the people you want will end up seeing your 237 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,520 message once. But repeat it and make sure that 238 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,600 people aren't missing it. Can you talk a little bit more 239 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,320 about the repeated exposure? That part is really interesting 240 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,000 to me, and I often forget that it's needed. 241 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,680 Yeah. So my former CEO used to say 242 00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:49,480 that you have to repeat things seven times in seven different 243 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,840 ways before people actually retain the information process 244 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,320 what you're saying. And so it is really critical. 245 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,320 Like imagine I send a Slack message at 10 AM, right? 246 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,280 I'm missing a lot of people, perhaps in the APAC time zone, 247 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,400 even Europe, right? And then there's so many 248 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,120 messages that happen in a given day. 249 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,160 And so to perhaps time your messages or send it in Slack and 250 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:11,920 then also maybe send it in an e-mail. 251 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,640 And then you also maybe mention the whatever it is you're 252 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,000 learning in the team meeting. So that's a way that you can 253 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,800 keep promoting yourself and also helping people at the same time 254 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:23,440 and making sure that people don't miss it. 255 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,720 I also, I loved your advice about if you want to sort of 256 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,840 like brag or talk about your accomplishment to sort of frame 257 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,960 it in, oh, this is what I learned. 258 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,640 So that it's useful for other people. 259 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,400 Because for me, one thing that was always very easy was to talk 260 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,080 about accomplishment when it was for like a group achievement. 261 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,320 Like we, you know, launched a major platform or like a major 262 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,400 feature. Because I felt like that was 263 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,280 necessary because I wanted to shine a light on everyone else 264 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,000 on my team and I wanted them to get the accolades. 265 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,160 I wanted them to get the praise, etcetera. 266 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,040 But when it comes to something that is like, just me, it just 267 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,560 feels so cringe and unnatural. Yeah. 268 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,800 So I think it's like more about like taking on that mindset, at 269 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,400 least for me to be like, OK, the reason I'm sharing this is not 270 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,560 just to like, show off about what I did, but it was hard to 271 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:15,960 do this. Like, these are all the things 272 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:17,720 that I had to learn or I had to push through. 273 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,320 And if I can share it and share that context, then it's actually 274 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,240 useful for people. I'm not just. 275 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,520 Yeah, showing off for the sake of showing off. 276 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,680 Yeah, exactly. Everyone always likes a helpful 277 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:28,960 teammate, right? Yeah, yeah. 278 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,160 What I'm hearing is that it is essential, yeah to have 279 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,640 visibility within your company. But it can be really 280 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,200 uncomfortable to talk about yourself and use I statements, 281 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,080 which you don't want to do. But what you should do is talk 282 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,760 about your team, what you've learned, use WE statements to 283 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,440 sound more collaborative. And it can take like, the ick 284 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,080 feeling out of kind of bragging about yourself because you're 285 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,480 talking about your team. Yeah, I think also this really 286 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,120 applies to LinkedIn as well when you're writing a LinkedIn post. 287 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,320 Because that's what I was thinking about. 288 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:01,600 Yeah. Like talking about your own 289 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,360 accomplishment. Yeah, because in your book you 290 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,760 also talk about like posting on LinkedIn is really important. 291 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,400 Yes, in this day and age, talking about professional 292 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,920 achievements, but how you do it can still feel uncomfortable. 293 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,120 So applying this like using the WE statements and posting about 294 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,400 learnings so that you're providing something of value to 295 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,880 your audience and you're not just being like, I'm so excited 296 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,840 to announce. I'm humbled and honored, humbled 297 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,600 and honored. I'm so thrilled. 298 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,200 I'm so thrilled to announce that I now have this investment 299 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:33,200 banking job. Yeah, yeah. 300 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,200 This investment banking, wow, yeah. 301 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,160 Yeah. Now we know how she really 302 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,840 feels. Yeah, no shame, no shame. 303 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,960 So, you know, going on a little bit tangent here with, with 304 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,680 LinkedIn, like, you know, I talk about the, the three types of 305 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,760 content on LinkedIn, personal, professional, educational, and 306 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,440 then of course, the 4th sort of bonus pillar or promotional. 307 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,880 So anytime you can incorporate some personal education 308 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,040 professional tie in, right, it's going to be a little bit less 309 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,120 like I'm bragging about myself, but I'm either sharing some 310 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,240 insights, I'm talking about a challenge I went through or I'm, 311 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:07,560 you know, teaching you something. 312 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,840 So that's a way to like buffer it a little bit. 313 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,000 Well, you have a very large following on LinkedIn. 314 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,840 Did you just give us like the secret formula of how to write a 315 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,680 successful LinkedIn post? I mean, that's, that's one part. 316 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,680 There's lot of other, other factors as well. 317 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,680 But I think, you know, I came up with those 3 buckets because a 318 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,200 lot of people do get really nervous posting on LinkedIn. 319 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,360 Me, yeah. I never do it. 320 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,280 I just like draft off of Sharia post where she tags me. 321 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:34,520 Yeah. And I'm just like, I hope some 322 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,080 people see that. Yeah, like it's the question 323 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,360 that I get most often about LinkedIn is, oh, I have 324 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,880 something that I, I want to say, but you know, I'm hesitant to to 325 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,000 click post and I just, I'm worried it needs to be the most 326 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,560 original thought ever. And what I tell people is 327 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,280 nothing on LinkedIn is original. Don't worry. 328 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:53,640 Don't put that stress on yourself. 329 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,760 Yeah, the people who stand out are the people who are talking 330 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,680 about their experiences. People are connecting to them as 331 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,600 a person and, and, and maybe the way that they're framing things, 332 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,680 again, like everyone, the content is all the same. 333 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,000 But the way people are packaging it and the, the people 334 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,720 themselves are different. And so I think there's a, you 335 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,240 know, people don't need to put so much pressure on themselves. 336 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,560 And so hopefully for the listeners, that's something 337 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,080 that, you know, gives them encouragement that, yeah, it's 338 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,360 OK to post and you don't have to be perfect or feel like, yeah, 339 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:22,760 you're you're completely original. 340 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,600 You're like the LinkedIn therapist. 341 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,720 Truly, they are. Yeah. 342 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,280 I feel so much better. I'm like, oh, I could do this. 343 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,560 Wait, So what were the three? Buckets that you so personal, 344 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,880 educational, professional, OK. And you want to try to hit all 345 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,120 of them, All three, or as many? As you can Nixon match yeah, I 346 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,480 think what usually happens is most people will start off with 347 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,640 educational. I think that's the probably the 348 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,640 easiest right. I'm teaching someone something 349 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,520 professional will be oh, there's something happening in the news 350 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,160 or in my industry that I want to talk about. 351 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,960 And the hardest one, but I think is but resonates the most is the 352 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,200 personal. So the personal stories, but, 353 00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,480 you know, take some time to build up to it. 354 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,680 Again, you don't have to put that pressure on yourself to to 355 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,560 share all your deepest, starkest, you know, challenges 356 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,280 and stories right away. But in due time, like you'll get 357 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,240 more comfortable mixing it in. And then you'll realize by doing 358 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,760 that, you're going to meet more people, more people are going to 359 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,200 engage with you, resonate with you. 360 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,160 And so, yeah, those are the three. 361 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,599 I'm going to after this, I'm going to go and study all of 362 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,839 your LinkedIn program like a workbook. 363 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,280 Nice, let me know what you think after. 364 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,520 In our next section, we're going to talk about writing like a 365 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,040 leader. And in your book, you share that 366 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,080 adding the word because a very simple word, adding that to a 367 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,760 sentence increases people's willingness and also compliance 368 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,960 to do what you're asking by 93%, which is a lot. 369 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:47,320 What's an everyday way to use that power without it feeling 370 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:52,040 ick or kind of manipulative? With the word, because I think 371 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,520 the most a common use case would probably be with deadlines. 372 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,480 Now ideally your team is meeting deadlines and following through, 373 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,120 but sometimes you need to give them a reason. 374 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,720 So in my last role at Prezi, I mentioned I sent out that weekly 375 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,600 newsletter, right? And so I needed my team to add 376 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,560 things to it and to make sure that it was complete so I could 377 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:12,920 publish it for the rest of the company. 378 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,960 And so an example of where I might use that is can you please 379 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,920 fill this out by Friday because I'm really excited to talk about 380 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,040 what you did this week with the company or even the study that 381 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,680 you're talking about, Cherie's Xerox study. 382 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,480 You can even give not that great a reason and people will still 383 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,920 will still be more inclined to actually do the thing. 384 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,240 So, you know, instead of can you turn this to me on on Thursday? 385 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,920 I might say, can you deliver this by Thursday because I'm 386 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,840 going to be out of office on Friday. 387 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,040 So very simple. I don't know why just that word 388 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:45,560 just gives people a reason, right? 389 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:46,880 Yeah. And when you have a reason, it's 390 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,760 like, OK, now I know why I need to take action. 391 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,600 You're not just telling me to do something or asking me to do 392 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,320 something without a reason behind it. 393 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,240 Yeah, I vaguely remember the study. 394 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,160 It was like people, someone was standing in line and he wanted 395 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,160 to cut the lines, make copies, right. 396 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,160 And he had to skip people like a Kinko's or something. 397 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:09,120 And in some of the instances, they had him say nothing but 398 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,920 just ask. Some of the instances they had 399 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,440 him say because. And then, like a really good 400 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:14,360 reason. Yeah. 401 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:16,480 And some of the instances it was just like, because. 402 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,680 And then a lame reason that didn't even make any sense. 403 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,440 Or like, you wouldn't even. Exactly. 404 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,560 So it was like the first one was, you know, I'm can I, can I 405 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,320 skip the line? Like most people are going to 406 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,680 say no. And then the next one was, oh, 407 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,640 can I skip the line because I'm in a rush to make copies? 408 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,000 So then again, a lot of people said, OK, sure. 409 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,400 And then the next one was can I skip the line because I need to 410 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,040 make copies? So that was the one that was 411 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,120 like, yeah, duh. Like not that great of a reason. 412 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,840 We're all still like most people said, yeah, go ahead. 413 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,080 So. The power of the word becomes 414 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,720 even if the reason's not good. Yeah. 415 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,240 I'll be like. Be careful with that power. 416 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,400 It actually reminds me, one of my friends just told me that her 417 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,600 mom has this like superpower where everywhere she goes she'll 418 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,160 ask for a discount like just because which I've like heard of 419 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,520 people doing that but she says that she does it even at like. 420 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,680 Designer stores and she said that like, for example, she'll 421 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,040 be at like Louis Vuitton and then when she's, you know, 422 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,240 talking to the essay the sales associate, she'll be like, you 423 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,720 know, what can you do for me? Like I would like, I would like 424 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,080 a discount because. Because I want one. 425 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,120 Because yes, she wouldn't really have the reason, but she'd be 426 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:34,480 like, can I have your employee discount? 427 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,040 And then they give it to her. Oh wow. 428 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,800 So like, hey, I was so shook it when she told me this. 429 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,320 I was like, what? I'm like, first of all, I don't 430 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,120 shop at Louis Vuitton, but you know, I'm going to be walking 431 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,520 out. Maybe now Dior, like Dior, watch 432 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,480 out, I'm going to be coming in and asking for some sort of 433 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,560 discount because. I need one. 434 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,000 Yeah. It's so interesting. 435 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,440 I think generally I am a person who has a hard time asking for 436 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,720 things at all, like whether it's in the workplace, whether it's 437 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,640 personal or romantic. Like I just have a hard time 438 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,520 asking for help, for example, or just asking for things. 439 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,360 But I think I should experiment with being a bit more liberal 440 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:18,200 with it and attach the word because to see what would 441 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,280 happen. Yeah. 442 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,680 You should have a follow up episode where you just use 443 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,600 because and just like random situation and then like come 444 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,000 back and be like what worked? We can test it out ourselves. 445 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:33,840 Yeah, yeah. OK, in your book you introduce 446 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:39,280 the concept of an e-mail haiku. What is it and why do executives 447 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,600 love it? So this idea is actually Kim 448 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,080 Scott. So she's the author of Radical 449 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,200 Candor, one of the three dozen amazing, amazing business 450 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,960 leaders I got to interview for this book. 451 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,440 Wow. And what she said was the e-mail 452 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,200 haiku is essentially a very thoughtful way of communicating. 453 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,360 And what you want to do is a haiku is very short, right? 454 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,120 When you write an e-mail, you also want your e-mail to be very 455 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,120 short and essentially be able to fit on a smartphone screen 456 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,080 without needing to. Scroll. 457 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,000 I like that. Yeah, because people are busy, 458 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,320 especially executives are busy, but you want to really think 459 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,080 through like, what can I eliminate? 460 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,320 What's extra, so many of us are go, go, go. 461 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,720 So the way we're communicating, we're shooting off messages here 462 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:19,920 and there. We're not really being 463 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,280 thoughtful. And then when that happens, OK, 464 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,480 now my coworker has to follow up for clarification or now, you 465 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,400 know, they're missing the actual question. 466 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,120 We're going back and forth and wasting time. 467 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,440 But the e-mail haiku, which is a very concise way of 468 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,880 communicating your message, being respectful about the 469 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,280 recipient's time. And then yeah, you're going to 470 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,400 have to use a little bit extra time, 20-30 minutes to think 471 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,600 through that. But it's going to lead to more 472 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,600 productive, collaborative teams and your Co worker's going to 473 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,280 appreciate you more. Yeah, I so I took a class at 474 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,720 Stanford and it was a really famous writing class called 475 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,920 Winning Writing with Glenn Cremon, who was a New York Times 476 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,640 editor for 37 years. Incredible. 477 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,440 He's. Hi, Glenn. 478 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,560 Hi, Glenn. Hope you're welcome. 479 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,880 And he's fantastic. And you know, there's this one 480 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,680 part of the class where we talk about e-mail sell hygiene and 481 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,840 how to write like a good e-mail so that it gets a response. 482 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,360 And like one thing like you mentioned that's like super 483 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,880 simple is like what will fit on a smartphone? 484 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,600 Like I think that is so smart because most people are on the 485 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,200 go now and they don't check their e-mail at their desk as 486 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,240 like the first thing that they do. 487 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,800 They're mostly on their phone. So like figuring out what is the 488 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,080 subject line because they'll probably just read the subject 489 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,680 line like that's. Such that's really important 490 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:29,880 too. Important real estate. 491 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,520 Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's the that 492 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:33,880 makes them want to open it, right? 493 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,320 So subject lines are so important action needed FY just 494 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,640 FYI, no response needed due April 7th. 495 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,640 Like whatever information you can include that will make 496 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,360 someone open it realize that it's time sensitive or even not 497 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,840 time sensitive, right? Like that's that's your opening. 498 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:50,880 That's your first impression, right. 499 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,920 But over e-mail, Yeah, this might. 500 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,680 Be taking it to the extreme, but when I worked in finance, a lot 501 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,640 of times we would just write the whole message in the subject 502 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,840 line and try to keep it as short as possible. 503 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,120 And at the end of it we would write EOM like in parentheses, 504 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,760 end of message. I've heard of it so that they 505 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,040 never even have to open the e-mail. 506 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,200 They can just like read the subject line and then know the 507 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,520 information. Yeah, that's a. 508 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,520 That's a. Hard exercise, you have to keep 509 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,440 that tight, yeah. Yeah. 510 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,360 And I think it was just, it was just like the common what 511 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,000 everyone did. So I never thought twice about 512 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,960 it was like, oh, OK, got to make a really short message. 513 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,800 EOM, Yeah. Perfect. 514 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,680 Yeah. Kind of a power move too, yeah? 515 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,680 So the next thing we're. Going to talk about is more of 516 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,960 the non verbal cues that we kind of started on. 517 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,080 So you cite research that hand gestures when you're talking 518 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,920 increase anecdote recall by 33%. Just basically people 519 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,200 remembering what you say. How do we use this in everyday 520 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,440 life and how do we also use this while we're on a Zoom call? 521 00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:00,000 I want to. Talk about the Zoom call first 522 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,560 because I feel like that's where most people miss using body 523 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,400 language. So there has been research that 524 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,920 has been shown that when you use your hands on camera, you appear 525 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,920 warmer, more personable, more energetic, more trustworthy, 526 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,080 right? Cuz you're showing your hands. 527 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:14,720 Is that what you're doing now? I'm not. 528 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,400 I'm just. Cuz I'm like so used to using 529 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,600 them so energetically on video. It like translated to to in 530 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,600 person things. But anyways, like all these 531 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,800 really positive things on video, and I mean, we want those things 532 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,320 right simply by showing your hands. 533 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,640 And so everyone's just the, the first way to do that is to make 534 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,240 sure on video that you have your framing correct. 535 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,320 So what you want to do, a lot of people it's like way up close 536 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,000 and personal with your face or it's coming from the top. 537 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,920 So it's not really seeing your whole body. 538 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,440 So what you want to do is you want about like 3 to 5 fingers 539 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,200 worth of space above the top of your head between the top of the 540 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,080 camera frame. And then you want to actually 541 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,400 show a little bit of your torso on camera. 542 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,120 So a lot of people, they kind of cut it off here. 543 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,880 And so if you were to use your hands on camera with the video 544 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,480 cut off here, your hands are like by your head, which is 545 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,920 super strange. Like you're just like this the 546 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,680 whole time. However, down here now you just 547 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,000 have to lift your hands a little bit higher than it feels normal 548 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,280 to get them to fit in the camera. 549 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,960 What a lot of people do is they keep their hands down on their 550 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,160 lap. Again, we're relaxed, we're at 551 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,640 home on their lap, on their keyboard, on their mouse. 552 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,280 So they're moving their hands. But all what you're seeing is 553 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,480 little twitches of the shoulders, maybe a finger 554 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,840 popping in and out of the screen. 555 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:26,760 And So what we want is to again, adjust the framing so that we 556 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,160 can move our hands higher up and then use them naturally. 557 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,120 I think we shouldn't need to or shouldn't try to overthink it 558 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:34,600 too much because I know we can get in our heads. 559 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,240 And it's like, how do I use my hands again? 560 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,640 Like what's natural? But if you just relax, like your 561 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,360 hands will move naturally as you speak. 562 00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:43,360 So yeah, a lot of a lot of really great benefits. 563 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:45,360 And then, yeah, like you said, should be like more message 564 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,280 recall, like you just see more engaging. 565 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,280 It's more interesting to see movement on screen, right, 566 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,360 versus just me sitting still with just my head, for example. 567 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,840 So yeah, very, very powerful thing to include on video calls 568 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,640 and presentations and meetings that still a lot of people 569 00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,760 aren't doing. Yeah. 570 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,480 I think that makes. So much sense psychologically 571 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,280 when you think through it because they do all these 572 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,600 studies on like what is that kids TV show on YouTube? 573 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,600 The reason why kids are so addicted to it is because they 574 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,440 change the screen every two seconds or something like Coco 575 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,320 melon. Yes. 576 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,240 It's like psychologically they set it up so that they flashed a 577 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,080 different screen every two seconds, which is like, that's 578 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,600 why kids are like so locked into it. 579 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,200 And so like, it's kind of the same idea if you're watching 580 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,760 someone and talking to them on camera, like adding the hand 581 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,400 movements is just more dynamic and it just adds another element 582 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,440 of interest. And then it just like it's not 583 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,000 just your head and your face like the whole time talking and 584 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,080 you're like, you know, barely changing your expression. 585 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,400 Yeah. So it's more, I don't know, it's 586 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,160 just like human psychology, even unless you do this, it's human 587 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:46,880 psychology. There's like more interesting. 588 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,280 Yeah. Or they're like following. 589 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:49,680 Something. Yeah, you're more engaged. 590 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,480 When you also have like your hands free to like, it's like a 591 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,640 third element of interest exactly and also. 592 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,240 Helps reinforce your message too. 593 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:58,360 Yeah. So it's going. 594 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:00,280 To. Like add emphasis when you need 595 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,680 to add emphasis. And yeah, just more memorable. 596 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,120 Yeah, we. Had an executive presence class. 597 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,000 Cool. Like basically public speaking 598 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,520 class at Stanford. And we had one lecture that was 599 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,040 dedicated. Now I'm using my hands, yeah. 600 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,080 You just have to think about it and I'm like, yeah, it comes 601 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,040 naturally. We had one. 602 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,520 Lecture that was dedicated to matching your hand movements to 603 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,960 what you're saying. So make making sure that the 604 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,000 vocal and the visual were aligned. 605 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,000 And obviously like you don't want to do too much hand 606 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,600 movement, but if they can compliment each other, like the 607 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,200 message really sticks. For example, like if you're 608 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,320 going to name things, and this is mainly for like stage public 609 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,320 speaking. So not really like this, but 610 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,080 like if you're on stage and like you want to enumerate things, 611 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,560 you can be like 1-2 and three. Or if you're talking to an 612 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,560 audience and it's broken up into, like, threes, you can do, 613 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,080 like, the first thing, like one side, the second thing to like 614 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,360 the middle, and then the third. You're looking to the other side 615 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,520 of the room. But there's ways to match up 616 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,960 your physical presence with your message so that people are, 617 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,440 like, not only deeply engaged but also, like, following along. 618 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,480 Yeah. Exactly, and I think it gives 619 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,120 the. Impression also that like you're 620 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,560 locked into your own message and what you're saying that you have 621 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,080 a lot of like, like belief behind it. 622 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,960 Basically, if you're like putting your whole body 623 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,040 emphatically. Yeah. 624 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,000 And you're like, it seems like you believe your message more as 625 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,960 opposed to like, oh, you're. And they're just like talking. 626 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,760 Yeah. And even if you're not on stage 627 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,000 and you're saying like 123, I think like naturally when I 628 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,520 enumerate, I'm like, well, 123, yeah. 629 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,520 Yeah. Yeah, the energy is. 630 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,960 Also a huge piece on video that we're lacking. 631 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,800 So the body language really adds adds to that I think. 632 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,920 I can trick myself, like if I'm on Zoom and I'm like low energy 633 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,760 for a meeting, I might be able to trick myself into being 634 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,760 higher energy if I use my hands more. 635 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,680 Yeah, yeah. I can trick myself if I have a 636 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,120 huge cup of March. That's part of it that works as 637 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:58,480 well. Yeah. 638 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,080 OK. Let's move on. 639 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,040 To the section about confidence, language and authority, OK, are 640 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,840 you say that one of the phrases we should try to avoid is Does 641 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,040 this make sense? Is it ever OK to use this 642 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,000 phrase, or is it always undermining your message? 643 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,080 That is by far when I teach about executive presence and and 644 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,360 communication, when I talk about minimizing language and the need 645 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,560 to remove minimizing language, which are words or phrases that 646 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,080 weaken your message and then make you look less confident or 647 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,960 less sure of yourself. Does that make sense? 648 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,520 Whenever I give that one as an example, everyone in the chat is 649 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,680 always firing off like, oh, I just use that like 3 times 650 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,920 today. And, and I've used it too. 651 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,040 And so with that, it, it feels like you're being collaborative, 652 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,760 like I'm asking you, does does that make sense? 653 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:44,920 Yeah, let me know. Right. 654 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,400 But when you ask it like that, it can make it seem like you're 655 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,560 not actually sure if what you actually said does in fact make 656 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,400 sense. And so small tweak, let me know 657 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,160 if you have any questions. So now you're sure about what 658 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,760 you just said and you're still inviting collaboration in. 659 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,040 So there's a lot of phrases like that that we use throughout the 660 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,080 day without even realizing it. But again, those small tweaks 661 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,600 make you come across as a lot more powerful, confident, 662 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,440 authoritative. Minimizing language? 663 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,600 Yeah, What are some other? Examples of like minimizing 664 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,320 language that we should avoid because I feel like I probably 665 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,360 have a lot of those in my vocabulary. 666 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,680 Another one. That's really common is because 667 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,880 we're in so many back-to-back meetings, we're sometimes 668 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,800 running late. So we join a meeting and we're 669 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,720 kind of frantic and we're like, oh, my sorry, sorry, sorry, 670 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,640 sorry I'm late instead. You might change that too. 671 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,280 Thank you so much for your patience. 672 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,680 Really appreciate it. So instead of coming in kind of 673 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,720 frenzied and forcing the other person to say no, no, it's OK 674 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,520 right now. The person feels good, you're 675 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,440 showing appreciation, You're starting the meeting off on a 676 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,360 more positive footing. No problem. 677 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,000 Yeah, let's get started. Instead of using I think all the 678 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,360 time, you might say I recommend or. 679 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,280 The data suggests that. So again, like really, really 680 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,840 small tweaks, but it makes a big difference over time. 681 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,400 Yeah. I think it's also like now we 682 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,040 have like more confidence in what we're talking about and 683 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,200 more confidence in ourselves. And that just comes across no 684 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,520 matter what you're talking about. 685 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,560 Yeah, I agree. But practice really does help. 686 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,840 The next. Question is, I guess, is it 687 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,280 spicy? A little bit, a little 688 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:18,960 background, a little bit. Just a little, a little spicy, a 689 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,560 little spicy, OK? So I think we've all seen this 690 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,360 in the workplace or heard about it from a friend of a friend. 691 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,440 But like often times, confident people, confident women get 692 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,000 overlooked because they're interrupted and there's a person 693 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,840 in the workplace. Maybe it's a narcissist, like 694 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,960 someone who's very loud. They they get promoted because 695 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,400 they're the ones that are heard more. 696 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,720 Why do you think this dynamic plays out and what do you think 697 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,880 needs to change? I think it goes back. 698 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,000 To that visibility discussion we had earlier where, yeah, if 699 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,880 you're if you're louder, people are going to see you. 700 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,280 Now, I don't think it makes sense to always reward the 701 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,280 really loud person just because they're loud. 702 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,840 Like you need to be able to back it up. 703 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,800 And my hope is if someone were promoting someone simply because 704 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,320 they were loud, at a certain point they would realize, oh, 705 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,440 this person can't go any farther because they're actually doing 706 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,760 the good work, right? But I think it is really 707 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,720 critical to talk about your work and make it known. 708 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,800 And I think what happens often during those critical promotion 709 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,960 times that we're not taught, and I certainly didn't know this 710 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,120 when I, you know, first try to go out for a promotion, is that, 711 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,360 oh, you're not supposed to bring it up right when review time is 712 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,840 happening. Like this is a thing that needs 713 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,880 to be thought about months in advance. 714 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,880 So there's actually quite a lot of strategy behind it. 715 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,400 So instead of telling my manager after I wrote my review, oh, you 716 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,440 know, I'd love to get promoted this cycle, this is a 717 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,640 conversation I should have mentioned six months ahead of 718 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,120 time. I should have a better 719 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,320 understanding of who's going to be in the room. 720 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,880 And there are in fact, other people in the room, which I also 721 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,480 did not realize. I thought it was just my manager 722 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,240 just decided being OK, Lorraine's ready, right? 723 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,440 So who's in the room? Do they know that you want to 724 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,720 get promoted? What are the skills that might 725 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,600 be missing or what what is potentially stopping you from 726 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,400 getting that promotion? How can you address it? 727 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,080 Again, give yourself that time, right, so that you can actually 728 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,560 prepare for when the actual discussion happened. 729 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,640 So I think that foresight and you know, throughout the book, 730 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,000 I'm talking about being intentional about your career, 731 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,560 becoming the CEO of your own career. 732 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,880 That's really about taking things into your own hands. 733 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,560 And yeah, maybe that loud annoying guy is getting 734 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,920 promoted, but don't let him be a cloud over you. 735 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,239 Like make your voice heard too by being more strategic, by 736 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,600 being thoughtful about it not just being that loud annoying 737 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,800 voice. I think people don't realize. 738 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,800 That there is so much strategy that goes behind promotion and 739 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,520 promotion decisions. And I think just that sentence I 740 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,719 said sounds really ick, but I it's kind of the truth at the 741 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,920 corporate workplace. And I think a lot of people who 742 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,840 are early or mid career are like they don't know that or starting 743 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,880 to figure that out. And let me add a. 744 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,440 Point there that I didn't even mention is that you first have 745 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,880 to let your manager know that you want to get promoted and say 746 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,719 it again. I assumed that they would know. 747 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,320 Of course, I'm ambitious. Like, who doesn't want to get 748 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,800 promoted? Well, actually there's a lot of 749 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,960 people who don't want to get promoted and who are happy with 750 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,720 where they are. So we have to make it known in 751 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:04,120 the 1st place. And then again, like we were 752 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,400 talking about repeating things in multiple time. 753 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,760 I mean, you're not going to want to bring it up everyone on one 754 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,480 meeting every week, but make it known like keep repeating it. 755 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,160 Make sure your manager doesn't forget about it. 756 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,800 Yeah. And I think the. 757 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,120 Benefit of bringing it up early with your manager is that they 758 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,040 can kind of make a plan for you ahead of time and then you can 759 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,560 work on that plan together and then it feels like it's like 760 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,240 this joint effort they can advocate. 761 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:27,120 For you, yeah. Or they. 762 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,760 Have to advocate for you, but yes, and they can start to 763 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,640 advocate. They can plant the seeds early 764 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,600 on on your behalf. Yeah, because then, like, not 765 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,360 only do you have to let them know, they have to start doing 766 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,200 the legwork like months in advance so that they figure out 767 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,640 who else is going to be in that room. 768 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,600 I guess I'm speaking about this from my perspective of having 769 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,960 been a manager and done this. They have to figure out who else 770 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,440 is going to be in the room. Who do I need to also, you know, 771 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,600 vote yes for my direct report? And who do I think is going to 772 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,840 have objections? How do I, like, work against 773 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,280 those objections or start to, you know, mollify them months in 774 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,200 advance? What do they think? 775 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,440 How do I need to? How can I work with my direct so 776 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,000 that they can start to address these things directly with this 777 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,640 person? There's like, so much so. 778 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,560 Much to do, so much work that goes. 779 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,800 Into it. And I think, yes, you're 780 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,800 totally, totally right that the first thing you need to do is 781 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,760 bring your manager on board so that you're both like, it's the 782 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,360 two of you, like against the world. 783 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,400 Yeah, kind of feeling. Yeah, they're going to be more 784 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,320 invested. If if you bring them in, yeah, 785 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,280 they have to be very. Invested because honestly, it's 786 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,600 a lot of work for them so. In the workplace, in the big 787 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,000 corporations where there is a lot of behind the scenes that 788 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,240 needs to happen for a promotion to happen. 789 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,320 Does your boss need to like you in order for you to get 790 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,960 promoted? Because there's a lot of things 791 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,480 that you have to do. Like you just named. 792 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,120 Yeah, they have to. Like you, even if they don't 793 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,080 like your personality, they have to like what you bring to the 794 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,000 table. And you have to make their 795 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,320 lives, like 10 times easier. Yeah. 796 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,920 In some way or the other, whether or not you're it's your, 797 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,720 like, sunny and beautiful disposition and presence every 798 00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:07,440 single day, or you're like, the results. 799 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,760 Yeah. Or like you're, you know, a 10X 800 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:10,400 performer. Yeah. 801 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,080 And I think that they'll respect you. 802 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,160 Right. I mean, maybe they don't like 803 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,640 your personality or you're not like best friends, but they have 804 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,840 to respect your work, respect what you do, like your career. 805 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,200 Lorraine. Thank you so much for being here 806 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,000 and giving us the real talk. Of course, Thank. 807 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,240 You for having me? This was amazing, so fun. 808 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,520 We didn't just talk about communication and visibility, 809 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:35,200 but really what it takes to be unforgettable in the workplace. 810 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,520 And you really gave us the playbook on how to speak and how 811 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,880 to present ourselves so people listen. 812 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,880 So we always say that we want to be the internet's career mentors 813 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,280 and Big Sisters that we never had. 814 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,000 And today you were the trusted expert that we all needed. 815 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,400 You were practical, you were empowering and really just 816 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,720 bringing so much wisdom and like kind big sister energy and 817 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:02,320 information to all of our listeners. 818 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,080 So thank you so much. Oh my gosh. 819 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,680 Thank you so. Seriously, so fun. 820 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,240 So guys if. This conversation made you 821 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:12,440 rethink your presence or your LinkedIn posts or any sort of 822 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:13,800 announcements you were trying to make. 823 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,000 Please take 10 seconds to like, follow and subscribe and also 824 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,840 rate US five stars on Spotify and also Apple Podcasts. 825 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,800 It really makes oh, because because because it really helps 826 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,760 our podcast be discovered and shared with other people. 827 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,520 Awesome. We'll see you next time on the 828 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,760 Tiger Sisters Podcast. Bye.