They told us to work hard, speak up and smile on Zoom, but
somehow the wrong people still get promoted.
Because in today's workplace, it's not about what you do, it's
also about how you're perceived. Because you can be great and
amazing and perfect and also invisible at the same time.
We're sitting with Lorraine and we're talking about the one word
that makes people 93% more likely to say yes.
The unconscious Zoom habits that are silently ruining your
credibility and how to play the game without looking like a suck
up. Whether you're early in your
career or leading A-Team, today we'll talk about the blueprint
of becoming magnetic. By the end of this episode, you
won't just know how to fix your body language or speak with more
confidence. You'll walk away with Lorraine's
exact steps for building executive presence and showing
up like a leader, no matter your title.
I'm Cherie. I'm Jean.
I'm Lorraine. And we're the Tiger sisters.
Hey friends, it's Sheree and Jean from Tiger Sisters.
We need your help. We just dropped our very first
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Why? Because we want to create the
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description, please fill it out. Thank you for being a part of
this with us. Tiger Sisters is just getting we
started. Welcome to Tiger Sisters Podcast
where we talk about money, power and love.
Today we're talking to Lorraine Kaylee, LinkedIn top voice and
author of Unforgettable Presence.
We're breaking down the unspoken rules of the workplace on how to
get seen, heard, and promoted. Welcome to the Tiger Sisters
podcast, Lorraine. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really. Excited to be here.
We're so excited that you're here it.
Happened. Yay.
Could you please introduce yourself to the audience in your
own words? Of course.
Well, I'm Lorraine. I spent the first decade of my
career leading editorial teams at various tech companies, most
notably at LinkedIn, where I met you, Cherie.
And now I am a keynote speaker, course creator and author, as
you mentioned, and also a content creator.
Yay. So excited I get to dive right
in. Yeah, same here.
OK, Lorraine, in your book you say that first impressions form
in as little as 110th of a second.
So what are people getting wrong in that 110th of a second?
A lot of people are not thinking about the non verbal.
I think when we are about to meet someone, we think about our
introduction. We know what we want to say.
We're not thinking about what our body is saying.
So for example, there's the obvious things like you need to
have good posture, you want to make eye contact, not have the
dead fish handshake, right? So have a solid handshake.
And then there's other things as well that we don't think about.
So let's say I am doing a job interview, right?
And Sheree, you're going to interview me.
You come out of your office to meet me and I'm on my cell
phone. That small moment even that
takes me to look up, right? Like you're already informing an
impression, right? I'm I'm looking distracted or
phones signal distraction usually.
So something as simple as that could also be negatively
impacting our impression, even like before we've actually said
anything. And there's other examples too,
where perhaps we're on a video call, and I don't know if this
has happened to you, but I will get on a call with someone and
they will be like, oh, just one second.
I just have to like send off this message really quick.
I mean, that's a little bit longer than 110th of a second,
but that's still setting up the call.
Not on the best footing. I don't have a good impression.
I don't have a good feeling. The initial reaction is, oh,
you're not paying attention to me.
Like you're not really present. Yeah, that actually reminds me,
I think first impressions, obviously in the professional
setting, how you show up, how you bring yourself like what
you're doing, the distraction part.
But I also remember listening to a podcast and is talking about
first impressions in a romantic setting and apparently on dates,
Like if your person who you're going on date with goes to the
bathroom, you're not supposed to look at your phone while they're
away. Because if they come back and
you're looking at your phone, it signals like, distraction or
perhaps that you're not interested on, like, a very,
like, subconscious level, but also in a romantic place, like,
you're not supposed to seem distracted.
That's what the podcast was saying, yeah.
I thought you were going to take it in a different direction.
I thought you were going to say that like when you go on a first
date, you kind of know in the 1st 110th of a second if it's a
no or is that just me? I think that just me.
For a few minutes, yeah, yeah. No, I feel like, you know, like
instinctually in the first second.
If it's a no don't off, it's definitely.
Yeah, yeah. And also non verbal cues like
right? Yes.
Yes, totally. Yeah.
Like if someone has like bad posture when I first meet that,
you know, like a date, I'm like. No confidence signals no
confidence. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Yeah. So whether it's like a
professional setting, romantic setting, like it applies, Yeah.
Continuing on first impressions, you call out RBF, which you call
resting business phase. I think other people might know
it for something else similar, but it's a major career killer
that could be silent. What's the fix for RBF,
especially in the workplace? And and describe it what it is
first. Yeah, resting business phase,
we've all seen it. Sometimes maybe we're the ones
doing it right. We're on a call and what happens
is especially virtually, we're usually at home, we're relaxed.
So we get on a call and we're just not thinking about our
facial expressions. So we're either neutral or
looking kind of angry. And on video, those feelings are
going to be even more magnified, right.
And So what RBF is or the antidote to RBF, it sounds
really obvious, but first is to smile and be aware of your
facial expressions. I think just so many of us just
aren't thinking about it because again, we're at home, we're
comfortable. And so smiling is, is an
important one. And then there's also again on
verbal cues and affirmations that you can use on video.
So nodding your head slowly, maybe raising your eyebrows if
someone said something interesting, and again, smiling,
right, if what you're what they're saying resonates with
you. So there's those little things
that you can do to break free from that RBF and show that
you're engaged. Because especially if we're
virtual, we only have so many touch points in a given day.
And so we want to make sure that our video presence is allowing
us to show up in the way that we want to show up.
I can't help but feel like this advice is especially pertinent
for women because that's sort of what is expected of you in
society to kind of like exude. I think we'll get into this
later, but like exude a certain level of warmth.
And I think a lot of women naturally or are like societally
trained to do that in person. So like if you're not conveying
that on Zoom or it's harder to convey that on Zoom, then people
are sort of like perceived that negatively versus a man.
I think men are, you know, oftentimes expected to be more
stoic societally. So like, it's not as much of A
like a Ding against you as a man, but I totally see how
that's very applicable as a woman.
Again, something to be aware of, like we don't want to go so over
the top and do something that feels unnatural.
But again, it's perception is reality, right?
So how are people perceiving you?
And you want to be aware of that and make adjustments
accordingly, Yeah. It's something within your
control that you can try and change.
Yeah, yeah. I love that I'm like, on one
hand, it's so exhausting to like, it's like so, so
exhausting. But then on the other hand, I'm
like, well I would rather know. Like I'd rather be aware and
have this information and then be able to like affect how
people perceive me. I don't wanna just have no
self-awareness. Right.
I think over time too, it will become more natural.
Of course, if your natural face is always kind of angry, going
against that, it's gonna take a little time to get used to.
But I think any skill you practice and it'll become more
natural. Yeah, OK.
So, Lorraine, you give scripts in your book to talk about how
to talk about your accomplishments without seeming
like you're bragging. So how do you do this?
The first thing to keep in mind is that we need to be vocal
about our work. I think so many of us, and
myself included, you think hard work speaks for itself, but if
no one knows about it, what's it all for, right?
So we need to know first and foremost that we do in fact have
to talk about our work and make sure that we're being visible.
So when it comes to advocating for ourselves, to talking about
our work, there's a few different things that you can
do. So one thing, for example, there
was data in Harvard Business Review that showed that when you
use more collaboratively language like we sour, you're
actually seen as more senior and more impressive than someone who
perhaps uses a lot of I statements.
People who use I statements are going to be seen as more junior,
for example. There's other things that you
can do as well if you are uncomfortable talking about your
work agreement in terms of team learnings, right?
How is this going to help everyone else?
Like I'm proud I did this. I think this can be helpful to
the rest of the team. And so again, it's more of that
collaborative spirit that I think makes it a little bit
easier to talk about things. And then always when, whenever
you can ground it in data facts, right?
No one can really argue with that.
Tie it to the company's bottom line.
Every executive, every senior leader will be so happy if you
show them that you are doing work that's helping the
business, right? So I think when you have those
mindset shifts and you reframe things in that way, it can be a
little bit more comfortable for the people who are perhaps a
little bit more hesitant. At LinkedIn, where we both
worked, we had a. Really not sponsored Not.
Sponsored. But maybe.
But perhaps. In the future, LinkedIn Premium
well, so we had a very clear outlet of how to do this in our
company, which is there are these emails that teams could
send announcing some of their wins and successes.
If a company doesn't do that, or if an individual is looking to
gain more visibility, what are some places where people can do
so? Like putting into place some of
the things you just suggested. I love that you brought up those
emails because when I went to Prezi, right after I immediately
asked my boss, I was like, how can I get like, how can I e-mail
everyone? How can I get everyone on this
listserv? They didn't have an e-mail like
that or system like that. So what I did was we did have a
company intranet, so that actually reached the whole
company, which was even better than a specific e-mail listserv.
So finding the place where everyone's going to be, asking
your manager, where are the senior leaders, the decision
makers showing up? I think that's a really good
first step. And then you don't have to
always be so big and so wide reaching necessarily, right?
You want to make sure you're reaching the right people at the
right time. So for example, that might be,
oh, there's a slack channel with the CEO or slack channel with
the the marketing leader who I want to reach.
And it's not going to be our immediate small channel, but
it's going to be one that reaches a few more people.
So that would be a really wonderful Ave.
And then remember that we don't want to just say things once,
but we want to try to find different places that we can
repeat ourselves because everyone's so busy.
Some of us are in perfect person, some of us are remote,
and so maybe half the people you want will end up seeing your
message once. But repeat it and make sure that
people aren't missing it. Can you talk a little bit more
about the repeated exposure? That part is really interesting
to me, and I often forget that it's needed.
Yeah. So my former CEO used to say
that you have to repeat things seven times in seven different
ways before people actually retain the information process
what you're saying. And so it is really critical.
Like imagine I send a Slack message at 10 AM, right?
I'm missing a lot of people, perhaps in the APAC time zone,
even Europe, right? And then there's so many
messages that happen in a given day.
And so to perhaps time your messages or send it in Slack and
then also maybe send it in an e-mail.
And then you also maybe mention the whatever it is you're
learning in the team meeting. So that's a way that you can
keep promoting yourself and also helping people at the same time
and making sure that people don't miss it.
I also, I loved your advice about if you want to sort of
like brag or talk about your accomplishment to sort of frame
it in, oh, this is what I learned.
So that it's useful for other people.
Because for me, one thing that was always very easy was to talk
about accomplishment when it was for like a group achievement.
Like we, you know, launched a major platform or like a major
feature. Because I felt like that was
necessary because I wanted to shine a light on everyone else
on my team and I wanted them to get the accolades.
I wanted them to get the praise, etcetera.
But when it comes to something that is like, just me, it just
feels so cringe and unnatural. Yeah.
So I think it's like more about like taking on that mindset, at
least for me to be like, OK, the reason I'm sharing this is not
just to like, show off about what I did, but it was hard to
do this. Like, these are all the things
that I had to learn or I had to push through.
And if I can share it and share that context, then it's actually
useful for people. I'm not just.
Yeah, showing off for the sake of showing off.
Yeah, exactly. Everyone always likes a helpful
teammate, right? Yeah, yeah.
What I'm hearing is that it is essential, yeah to have
visibility within your company. But it can be really
uncomfortable to talk about yourself and use I statements,
which you don't want to do. But what you should do is talk
about your team, what you've learned, use WE statements to
sound more collaborative. And it can take like, the ick
feeling out of kind of bragging about yourself because you're
talking about your team. Yeah, I think also this really
applies to LinkedIn as well when you're writing a LinkedIn post.
Because that's what I was thinking about.
Yeah. Like talking about your own
accomplishment. Yeah, because in your book you
also talk about like posting on LinkedIn is really important.
Yes, in this day and age, talking about professional
achievements, but how you do it can still feel uncomfortable.
So applying this like using the WE statements and posting about
learnings so that you're providing something of value to
your audience and you're not just being like, I'm so excited
to announce. I'm humbled and honored, humbled
and honored. I'm so thrilled.
I'm so thrilled to announce that I now have this investment
banking job. Yeah, yeah.
This investment banking, wow, yeah.
Yeah. Now we know how she really
feels. Yeah, no shame, no shame.
So, you know, going on a little bit tangent here with, with
LinkedIn, like, you know, I talk about the, the three types of
content on LinkedIn, personal, professional, educational, and
then of course, the 4th sort of bonus pillar or promotional.
So anytime you can incorporate some personal education
professional tie in, right, it's going to be a little bit less
like I'm bragging about myself, but I'm either sharing some
insights, I'm talking about a challenge I went through or I'm,
you know, teaching you something.
So that's a way to like buffer it a little bit.
Well, you have a very large following on LinkedIn.
Did you just give us like the secret formula of how to write a
successful LinkedIn post? I mean, that's, that's one part.
There's lot of other, other factors as well.
But I think, you know, I came up with those 3 buckets because a
lot of people do get really nervous posting on LinkedIn.
Me, yeah. I never do it.
I just like draft off of Sharia post where she tags me.
Yeah. And I'm just like, I hope some
people see that. Yeah, like it's the question
that I get most often about LinkedIn is, oh, I have
something that I, I want to say, but you know, I'm hesitant to to
click post and I just, I'm worried it needs to be the most
original thought ever. And what I tell people is
nothing on LinkedIn is original. Don't worry.
Don't put that stress on yourself.
Yeah, the people who stand out are the people who are talking
about their experiences. People are connecting to them as
a person and, and, and maybe the way that they're framing things,
again, like everyone, the content is all the same.
But the way people are packaging it and the, the people
themselves are different. And so I think there's a, you
know, people don't need to put so much pressure on themselves.
And so hopefully for the listeners, that's something
that, you know, gives them encouragement that, yeah, it's
OK to post and you don't have to be perfect or feel like, yeah,
you're you're completely original.
You're like the LinkedIn therapist.
Truly, they are. Yeah.
I feel so much better. I'm like, oh, I could do this.
Wait, So what were the three? Buckets that you so personal,
educational, professional, OK. And you want to try to hit all
of them, All three, or as many? As you can Nixon match yeah, I
think what usually happens is most people will start off with
educational. I think that's the probably the
easiest right. I'm teaching someone something
professional will be oh, there's something happening in the news
or in my industry that I want to talk about.
And the hardest one, but I think is but resonates the most is the
personal. So the personal stories, but,
you know, take some time to build up to it.
Again, you don't have to put that pressure on yourself to to
share all your deepest, starkest, you know, challenges
and stories right away. But in due time, like you'll get
more comfortable mixing it in. And then you'll realize by doing
that, you're going to meet more people, more people are going to
engage with you, resonate with you.
And so, yeah, those are the three.
I'm going to after this, I'm going to go and study all of
your LinkedIn program like a workbook.
Nice, let me know what you think after.
In our next section, we're going to talk about writing like a
leader. And in your book, you share that
adding the word because a very simple word, adding that to a
sentence increases people's willingness and also compliance
to do what you're asking by 93%, which is a lot.
What's an everyday way to use that power without it feeling
ick or kind of manipulative? With the word, because I think
the most a common use case would probably be with deadlines.
Now ideally your team is meeting deadlines and following through,
but sometimes you need to give them a reason.
So in my last role at Prezi, I mentioned I sent out that weekly
newsletter, right? And so I needed my team to add
things to it and to make sure that it was complete so I could
publish it for the rest of the company.
And so an example of where I might use that is can you please
fill this out by Friday because I'm really excited to talk about
what you did this week with the company or even the study that
you're talking about, Cherie's Xerox study.
You can even give not that great a reason and people will still
will still be more inclined to actually do the thing.
So, you know, instead of can you turn this to me on on Thursday?
I might say, can you deliver this by Thursday because I'm
going to be out of office on Friday.
So very simple. I don't know why just that word
just gives people a reason, right?
Yeah. And when you have a reason, it's
like, OK, now I know why I need to take action.
You're not just telling me to do something or asking me to do
something without a reason behind it.
Yeah, I vaguely remember the study.
It was like people, someone was standing in line and he wanted
to cut the lines, make copies, right.
And he had to skip people like a Kinko's or something.
And in some of the instances, they had him say nothing but
just ask. Some of the instances they had
him say because. And then, like a really good
reason. Yeah.
And some of the instances it was just like, because.
And then a lame reason that didn't even make any sense.
Or like, you wouldn't even. Exactly.
So it was like the first one was, you know, I'm can I, can I
skip the line? Like most people are going to
say no. And then the next one was, oh,
can I skip the line because I'm in a rush to make copies?
So then again, a lot of people said, OK, sure.
And then the next one was can I skip the line because I need to
make copies? So that was the one that was
like, yeah, duh. Like not that great of a reason.
We're all still like most people said, yeah, go ahead.
So. The power of the word becomes
even if the reason's not good. Yeah.
I'll be like. Be careful with that power.
It actually reminds me, one of my friends just told me that her
mom has this like superpower where everywhere she goes she'll
ask for a discount like just because which I've like heard of
people doing that but she says that she does it even at like.
Designer stores and she said that like, for example, she'll
be at like Louis Vuitton and then when she's, you know,
talking to the essay the sales associate, she'll be like, you
know, what can you do for me? Like I would like, I would like
a discount because. Because I want one.
Because yes, she wouldn't really have the reason, but she'd be
like, can I have your employee discount?
And then they give it to her. Oh wow.
So like, hey, I was so shook it when she told me this.
I was like, what? I'm like, first of all, I don't
shop at Louis Vuitton, but you know, I'm going to be walking
out. Maybe now Dior, like Dior, watch
out, I'm going to be coming in and asking for some sort of
discount because. I need one.
Yeah. It's so interesting.
I think generally I am a person who has a hard time asking for
things at all, like whether it's in the workplace, whether it's
personal or romantic. Like I just have a hard time
asking for help, for example, or just asking for things.
But I think I should experiment with being a bit more liberal
with it and attach the word because to see what would
happen. Yeah.
You should have a follow up episode where you just use
because and just like random situation and then like come
back and be like what worked? We can test it out ourselves.
Yeah, yeah. OK, in your book you introduce
the concept of an e-mail haiku. What is it and why do executives
love it? So this idea is actually Kim
Scott. So she's the author of Radical
Candor, one of the three dozen amazing, amazing business
leaders I got to interview for this book.
Wow. And what she said was the e-mail
haiku is essentially a very thoughtful way of communicating.
And what you want to do is a haiku is very short, right?
When you write an e-mail, you also want your e-mail to be very
short and essentially be able to fit on a smartphone screen
without needing to. Scroll.
I like that. Yeah, because people are busy,
especially executives are busy, but you want to really think
through like, what can I eliminate?
What's extra, so many of us are go, go, go.
So the way we're communicating, we're shooting off messages here
and there. We're not really being
thoughtful. And then when that happens, OK,
now my coworker has to follow up for clarification or now, you
know, they're missing the actual question.
We're going back and forth and wasting time.
But the e-mail haiku, which is a very concise way of
communicating your message, being respectful about the
recipient's time. And then yeah, you're going to
have to use a little bit extra time, 20-30 minutes to think
through that. But it's going to lead to more
productive, collaborative teams and your Co worker's going to
appreciate you more. Yeah, I so I took a class at
Stanford and it was a really famous writing class called
Winning Writing with Glenn Cremon, who was a New York Times
editor for 37 years. Incredible.
He's. Hi, Glenn.
Hope you're welcome.
And he's fantastic. And you know, there's this one
part of the class where we talk about e-mail sell hygiene and
how to write like a good e-mail so that it gets a response.
And like one thing like you mentioned that's like super
simple is like what will fit on a smartphone?
Like I think that is so smart because most people are on the
go now and they don't check their e-mail at their desk as
like the first thing that they do.
They're mostly on their phone. So like figuring out what is the
subject line because they'll probably just read the subject
line like that's. Such that's really important
too. Important real estate.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's the that
makes them want to open it, right?
So subject lines are so important action needed FY just
FYI, no response needed due April 7th.
Like whatever information you can include that will make
someone open it realize that it's time sensitive or even not
time sensitive, right? Like that's that's your opening.
That's your first impression, right.
But over e-mail, Yeah, this might.
Be taking it to the extreme, but when I worked in finance, a lot
of times we would just write the whole message in the subject
line and try to keep it as short as possible.
And at the end of it we would write EOM like in parentheses,
end of message. I've heard of it so that they
never even have to open the e-mail.
They can just like read the subject line and then know the
information. Yeah, that's a.
That's a. Hard exercise, you have to keep
that tight, yeah. Yeah.
And I think it was just, it was just like the common what
everyone did. So I never thought twice about
it was like, oh, OK, got to make a really short message.
EOM, Yeah. Perfect.
Yeah. Kind of a power move too, yeah?
So the next thing we're. Going to talk about is more of
the non verbal cues that we kind of started on.
So you cite research that hand gestures when you're talking
increase anecdote recall by 33%. Just basically people
remembering what you say. How do we use this in everyday
life and how do we also use this while we're on a Zoom call?
I want to. Talk about the Zoom call first
because I feel like that's where most people miss using body
language. So there has been research that
has been shown that when you use your hands on camera, you appear
warmer, more personable, more energetic, more trustworthy,
right? Cuz you're showing your hands.
Is that what you're doing now? I'm not.
I'm just. Cuz I'm like so used to using
them so energetically on video. It like translated to to in
person things. But anyways, like all these
really positive things on video, and I mean, we want those things
right simply by showing your hands.
And so everyone's just the, the first way to do that is to make
sure on video that you have your framing correct.
So what you want to do, a lot of people it's like way up close
and personal with your face or it's coming from the top.
So it's not really seeing your whole body.
So what you want to do is you want about like 3 to 5 fingers
worth of space above the top of your head between the top of the
camera frame. And then you want to actually
show a little bit of your torso on camera.
So a lot of people, they kind of cut it off here.
And so if you were to use your hands on camera with the video
cut off here, your hands are like by your head, which is
super strange. Like you're just like this the
whole time. However, down here now you just
have to lift your hands a little bit higher than it feels normal
to get them to fit in the camera.
What a lot of people do is they keep their hands down on their
lap. Again, we're relaxed, we're at
home on their lap, on their keyboard, on their mouse.
So they're moving their hands. But all what you're seeing is
little twitches of the shoulders, maybe a finger
popping in and out of the screen.
And So what we want is to again, adjust the framing so that we
can move our hands higher up and then use them naturally.
I think we shouldn't need to or shouldn't try to overthink it
too much because I know we can get in our heads.
And it's like, how do I use my hands again?
Like what's natural? But if you just relax, like your
hands will move naturally as you speak.
So yeah, a lot of a lot of really great benefits.
And then, yeah, like you said, should be like more message
recall, like you just see more engaging.
It's more interesting to see movement on screen, right,
versus just me sitting still with just my head, for example.
So yeah, very, very powerful thing to include on video calls
and presentations and meetings that still a lot of people
aren't doing. Yeah.
I think that makes. So much sense psychologically
when you think through it because they do all these
studies on like what is that kids TV show on YouTube?
The reason why kids are so addicted to it is because they
change the screen every two seconds or something like Coco
melon. Yes.
It's like psychologically they set it up so that they flashed a
different screen every two seconds, which is like, that's
why kids are like so locked into it.
And so like, it's kind of the same idea if you're watching
someone and talking to them on camera, like adding the hand
movements is just more dynamic and it just adds another element
of interest. And then it just like it's not
just your head and your face like the whole time talking and
you're like, you know, barely changing your expression.
Yeah. So it's more, I don't know, it's
just like human psychology, even unless you do this, it's human
psychology. There's like more interesting.
Yeah. Or they're like following.
Something. Yeah, you're more engaged.
When you also have like your hands free to like, it's like a
third element of interest exactly and also.
Helps reinforce your message too.
Yeah. So it's going.
To. Like add emphasis when you need
to add emphasis. And yeah, just more memorable.
Yeah, we. Had an executive presence class.
Cool. Like basically public speaking
class at Stanford. And we had one lecture that was
dedicated. Now I'm using my hands, yeah.
You just have to think about it and I'm like, yeah, it comes
naturally. We had one.
Lecture that was dedicated to matching your hand movements to
what you're saying. So make making sure that the
vocal and the visual were aligned.
And obviously like you don't want to do too much hand
movement, but if they can compliment each other, like the
message really sticks. For example, like if you're
going to name things, and this is mainly for like stage public
speaking. So not really like this, but
like if you're on stage and like you want to enumerate things,
you can be like 1-2 and three. Or if you're talking to an
audience and it's broken up into, like, threes, you can do,
like, the first thing, like one side, the second thing to like
the middle, and then the third. You're looking to the other side
of the room. But there's ways to match up
your physical presence with your message so that people are,
like, not only deeply engaged but also, like, following along.
Yeah. Exactly, and I think it gives
the. Impression also that like you're
locked into your own message and what you're saying that you have
a lot of like, like belief behind it.
Basically, if you're like putting your whole body
emphatically. Yeah.
And you're like, it seems like you believe your message more as
opposed to like, oh, you're. And they're just like talking.
Yeah. And even if you're not on stage
and you're saying like 123, I think like naturally when I
enumerate, I'm like, well, 123, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, the energy is.
Also a huge piece on video that we're lacking.
So the body language really adds adds to that I think.
I can trick myself, like if I'm on Zoom and I'm like low energy
for a meeting, I might be able to trick myself into being
higher energy if I use my hands more.
Yeah, yeah. I can trick myself if I have a
huge cup of March. That's part of it that works as
well. Yeah.
OK. Let's move on.
To the section about confidence, language and authority, OK, are
you say that one of the phrases we should try to avoid is Does
this make sense? Is it ever OK to use this
phrase, or is it always undermining your message?
That is by far when I teach about executive presence and and
communication, when I talk about minimizing language and the need
to remove minimizing language, which are words or phrases that
weaken your message and then make you look less confident or
less sure of yourself. Does that make sense?
Whenever I give that one as an example, everyone in the chat is
always firing off like, oh, I just use that like 3 times
today. And, and I've used it too.
And so with that, it, it feels like you're being collaborative,
like I'm asking you, does does that make sense?
Yeah, let me know. Right.
But when you ask it like that, it can make it seem like you're
not actually sure if what you actually said does in fact make
sense. And so small tweak, let me know
if you have any questions. So now you're sure about what
you just said and you're still inviting collaboration in.
So there's a lot of phrases like that that we use throughout the
day without even realizing it. But again, those small tweaks
make you come across as a lot more powerful, confident,
authoritative. Minimizing language?
Yeah, What are some other? Examples of like minimizing
language that we should avoid because I feel like I probably
have a lot of those in my vocabulary.
Another one. That's really common is because
we're in so many back-to-back meetings, we're sometimes
running late. So we join a meeting and we're
kind of frantic and we're like, oh, my sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry I'm late instead. You might change that too.
Thank you so much for your patience.
Really appreciate it. So instead of coming in kind of
frenzied and forcing the other person to say no, no, it's OK
right now. The person feels good, you're
showing appreciation, You're starting the meeting off on a
more positive footing. No problem.
Yeah, let's get started. Instead of using I think all the
time, you might say I recommend or.
The data suggests that. So again, like really, really
small tweaks, but it makes a big difference over time.
Yeah. I think it's also like now we
have like more confidence in what we're talking about and
more confidence in ourselves. And that just comes across no
matter what you're talking about.
Yeah, I agree. But practice really does help.
The next. Question is, I guess, is it
spicy? A little bit, a little
background, a little bit. Just a little, a little spicy, a
little spicy, OK? So I think we've all seen this
in the workplace or heard about it from a friend of a friend.
But like often times, confident people, confident women get
overlooked because they're interrupted and there's a person
in the workplace. Maybe it's a narcissist, like
someone who's very loud. They they get promoted because
they're the ones that are heard more.
Why do you think this dynamic plays out and what do you think
needs to change? I think it goes back.
To that visibility discussion we had earlier where, yeah, if
you're if you're louder, people are going to see you.
Now, I don't think it makes sense to always reward the
really loud person just because they're loud.
Like you need to be able to back it up.
And my hope is if someone were promoting someone simply because
they were loud, at a certain point they would realize, oh,
this person can't go any farther because they're actually doing
the good work, right? But I think it is really
critical to talk about your work and make it known.
And I think what happens often during those critical promotion
times that we're not taught, and I certainly didn't know this
when I, you know, first try to go out for a promotion, is that,
oh, you're not supposed to bring it up right when review time is
happening. Like this is a thing that needs
to be thought about months in advance.
So there's actually quite a lot of strategy behind it.
So instead of telling my manager after I wrote my review, oh, you
know, I'd love to get promoted this cycle, this is a
conversation I should have mentioned six months ahead of
time. I should have a better
understanding of who's going to be in the room.
And there are in fact, other people in the room, which I also
did not realize. I thought it was just my manager
just decided being OK, Lorraine's ready, right?
So who's in the room? Do they know that you want to
get promoted? What are the skills that might
be missing or what what is potentially stopping you from
getting that promotion? How can you address it?
Again, give yourself that time, right, so that you can actually
prepare for when the actual discussion happened.
So I think that foresight and you know, throughout the book,
I'm talking about being intentional about your career,
becoming the CEO of your own career.
That's really about taking things into your own hands.
And yeah, maybe that loud annoying guy is getting
promoted, but don't let him be a cloud over you.
Like make your voice heard too by being more strategic, by
being thoughtful about it not just being that loud annoying
voice. I think people don't realize.
That there is so much strategy that goes behind promotion and
promotion decisions. And I think just that sentence I
said sounds really ick, but I it's kind of the truth at the
corporate workplace. And I think a lot of people who
are early or mid career are like they don't know that or starting
to figure that out. And let me add a.
Point there that I didn't even mention is that you first have
to let your manager know that you want to get promoted and say
it again. I assumed that they would know.
Of course, I'm ambitious. Like, who doesn't want to get
promoted? Well, actually there's a lot of
people who don't want to get promoted and who are happy with
where they are. So we have to make it known in
the 1st place. And then again, like we were
talking about repeating things in multiple time.
I mean, you're not going to want to bring it up everyone on one
meeting every week, but make it known like keep repeating it.
Make sure your manager doesn't forget about it.
Yeah. And I think the.
Benefit of bringing it up early with your manager is that they
can kind of make a plan for you ahead of time and then you can
work on that plan together and then it feels like it's like
this joint effort they can advocate.
For you, yeah. Or they.
Have to advocate for you, but yes, and they can start to
advocate. They can plant the seeds early
on on your behalf. Yeah, because then, like, not
only do you have to let them know, they have to start doing
the legwork like months in advance so that they figure out
who else is going to be in that room.
I guess I'm speaking about this from my perspective of having
been a manager and done this. They have to figure out who else
is going to be in the room. Who do I need to also, you know,
vote yes for my direct report? And who do I think is going to
have objections? How do I, like, work against
those objections or start to, you know, mollify them months in
advance? What do they think?
How do I need to? How can I work with my direct so
that they can start to address these things directly with this
person? There's like, so much so.
Much to do, so much work that goes.
Into it. And I think, yes, you're
totally, totally right that the first thing you need to do is
bring your manager on board so that you're both like, it's the
two of you, like against the world.
Yeah, kind of feeling. Yeah, they're going to be more
invested. If if you bring them in, yeah,
they have to be very. Invested because honestly, it's
a lot of work for them so. In the workplace, in the big
corporations where there is a lot of behind the scenes that
needs to happen for a promotion to happen.
Does your boss need to like you in order for you to get
promoted? Because there's a lot of things
that you have to do. Like you just named.
Yeah, they have to. Like you, even if they don't
like your personality, they have to like what you bring to the
table. And you have to make their
lives, like 10 times easier. Yeah.
In some way or the other, whether or not you're it's your,
like, sunny and beautiful disposition and presence every
single day, or you're like, the results.
Yeah. Or like you're, you know, a 10X
performer. Yeah.
And I think that they'll respect you.
Right. I mean, maybe they don't like
your personality or you're not like best friends, but they have
to respect your work, respect what you do, like your career.
Lorraine. Thank you so much for being here
and giving us the real talk. Of course, Thank.
You for having me? This was amazing, so fun.
We didn't just talk about communication and visibility,
but really what it takes to be unforgettable in the workplace.
And you really gave us the playbook on how to speak and how
to present ourselves so people listen.
So we always say that we want to be the internet's career mentors
and Big Sisters that we never had.
And today you were the trusted expert that we all needed.
You were practical, you were empowering and really just
bringing so much wisdom and like kind big sister energy and
information to all of our listeners.
So thank you so much. Oh my gosh.
Thank you so. Seriously, so fun.
So guys if. This conversation made you
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Awesome. We'll see you next time on the
Tiger Sisters Podcast. Bye.