Hi, everyone. I'm Cherie.
I'm Jean and we're the Tiger sisters.
In today's episode, we're going to be talking about
entrepreneurship, our startup life, what it's like, and how
it's going as founders. Before we get started, don't
forget to like, follow and subscribe and put all your
questions into the comments we read.
All that, every single comment. And so let us know what
questions you have or things you want us to follow up on in
future episodes. And you see, we usually answer
them. Let's get started.
Let's bring back roses and thorns.
OK, Gene, why don't you kick us off?
What is your rose and your thorn?
OK. So my rose for this week is that
we recently went to the SNAP Partner Summit, which is the
annual like conference that SNAP puts on.
Is it a conference? It's a conference.
Yeah, it's like a conference for mostly partners and it's where
we, I say we, I don't work there anymore, but it's just like
mental where we announce like all of the big things that we've
been working on and all of the launches for the year.
So I've been on the inside before.
Well, I've always been on the inside and this is actually the
first time that I've gone where I've been a partner instead of
being like a team member, a presenter, like a employee.
And so it was just, it was really fun obviously to see a
lot of my old Co workers and also like I am still just really
so proud of everything we've built because, you know, I only
left earlier this year. So like a lot of the things that
we showed were things that I have actively been working on
for a really long time. So that was just like really
rewarding and it was also just, it was just really fun to
experience it as like the other side of it and like really get
to just not be like worried about how how things are going
and like experience experiencing it in whole in a totally
different way. And like just seeing how
actually really enjoyable it is and how much effort they put
into making it a really good time for the clients.
Yeah, you were the partner in the SNAP Partner Summit this
time. Yeah.
And then the other really fun part of it was that like I got
to see how well curated the guest list is and how it was
really fun. Obviously there's like tons of
like engineers, product managers, like leaders, like
people who actually worked on it that I was like connecting with.
But then also a lot of the like creators that are invited like
on the way over, like the whole experience, like as soon as we
get out of our car, we went to a shuttle which was like a 5
minute shuttle to take us to the venue at Barker Hanger.
But like in our shuttle was. Lala, a creator named Lala
Milan. Yes, Lala Milan.
And she has like 4 million, like, followers across
platforms, and she's a huge, like, lifestyle fashion creator.
And we were just like, chatting her up because we #1 didn't know
who she was because I hadn't seen her content before.
She was so nice, like, like, so cool.
Like was asking us a bunch of questions about our content, our
podcast. It's just very serendipitous.
She was just so like funny, like when you know, when you meet
someone and you're like, MMM, like you were such a good vibe.
Like she asked us. She was like, oh, what's the
name of your podcast? And we're like, oh, Tiger
sisters. And she goes.
That's hard and. I was like, she gets it.
I was. Like, oh, I love you.
I love you so much. But yeah, just like meeting,
like, lots of different people and like, the energy created, it
was just really special. And I've never really, like,
fully appreciated how special it was until getting to experience
it from the other side. So that was my rose.
Yay. You're like glowing talking
about it. You're like smiling so big,
right? Now I know it just feels really
like full circle. Oh, very nostalgic too.
I feel like 'cause you saw a bunch of your Co workers, your
former Co workers there. Yeah, yeah.
And then the thorn. Uh oh.
The thorn is that someone forced someone to leave 10 minutes
before Rufus du Soul came on. This was your.
Thorn. I thought it was going to be way
more dramatic. It's dramatic for me because I
was excited to see Rufus du Soul.
That's actually not true. We're totally fine with leaving.
Don't put this on me. So Rufus du Soul.
I was like, I was ready. I was so ready to vibe and party
with my friend. Well, so he played.
He was like on at 5:30 at snap partner site.
No, at 4:30 at 4:30 approximately at 330I crashed
and I was like please, like can we like leave?
Like I was like literally about to fall asleep.
But then Jean bumped into like another two people of her
friends and they started getting talking.
And it was like an interesting conversation, definitely.
And like, it was nice to be engaged, but like, my battery
was like, so low that like, I needed to leave.
But then, you know, we got into another conversation.
I felt like a little kid wanting to go home from like a parent's
event, you know what I mean? I was like.
I don't know why she was so. Tired.
I've been networking. Networking is tiring.
Yeah, but who are you networking with even?
Well, I would like go into these like little circles because like
you would say hi to people that you were talking to.
And then I'd be like in an offshoot circle, like not in
your conversation and like talking to random people who are
interesting. But then like, you know when
it's sometimes hard to exit a conversation?
Yes, I got to get better at that.
Me too, I really need to get better at that because like I'm
also like interested but I'm also just like I need to leave.
It could just be like so great talking to you, I need to run
and find my sister. Well, we also went to a bunch of
talks as well that day. You just know the conference
vibes. It's like, yeah, it's like
pretty tiring. So yeah, Rufus du Soul, like
really well known. EDMDJ performed and we did not
get to go because I wanted. To I saw it in so many snaps
afterwards it looked sick. Sometimes the concerts and the
snaps are better than the actual thing.
I will look sick, yeah. Next time.
Yeah, next time don't bring your lame ass little sister.
Yeah, sorry for being so cool. Said no one ever.
Is it funny that I'm the lame one in in this context?
Only in this context. And then you're the cool one who
wanted to stay and party. I'm always the cool one.
That's not true. You just haven't.
You haven't seen that side of me.
That's true. We've never gotten drunk
together. We haven't.
Never. I actually told some of my
friends that and they're like. What?
Well, you've just always been so much younger.
I know I thought that's like a criteria for anything.
But when I talk to my friends who have like siblings who are
closer in age, like they go out together and all that stuff,
we've literally the only time we've ever been out together was
when we were in Las Vegas with our family.
I know, but it's because I'm so cool and you just want to go
home and go to sleep. That's true, I have to wake up
at 6:00 AM to go to my gym classes.
Anyway, anyway, OK, what's your Rose and Thorne?
OK, my rose. Oh, I have a show and tell.
OK, it's a little bit hard to show.
OK, it's a little bit hard to show because my hands are very
full. But as some of you might know,
Jean and I are working on our Matcha brand.
It's called Sisters Matcha and it's been something that we've
been working on for quite some time now and it's finally coming
together. So sisters Macho, I think we're
going to dedicate another full episode to like talking about it
or like another segment at some other time.
But we we have this Matcha brand and we've been working on the
prototype. And as you can see, these are
paper prototypes. I come in from an engineering
background and like this is something we would do in classes
like you would create paper prototypes before going forward
to like making an actual thing. So reminded me a bit of that,
but like. Even for computer engineering.
Yeah, well, some of my classes we would do it especially for my
like electrical engineering classes and stuff you would just
like. I didn't know you took
electrical engineering. It was one of our, like, core
required classes. It's like the most base level.
Wow. Yeah.
And you just have to do paper prototypes.
And also for like my like web design classes you would make
paper prototypes and like move things around really.
I didn't know that. Yeah, it's very fun and
interactive in that way. That's so cool, actually.
So Jean and I have a matcha brand it's out for.
Pre-order. So make sure you pre-order.
It is the perfect holiday gift, and it's slated to get in right
before the holidays. So we're hoping like all things
going well, like it'll come in November time and then we'll be
able to send it off for holiday season.
And I'm just so proud because. It's one-size-fits-all.
It's true, Jean and I, and I'm so proud because Gene and I like
have spent so much time on this and on the design iteration.
And we really, I don't know, it's coming to fruition.
And I love like having a physical product, you know, more
to come on, like why we're creating this and like, you
know, what's the plan moving forward?
Because I feel like that that deserves its own like, yeah, you
know. And there's a lot of meaning
behind the design, too. Seriously.
Which we don't have to get into now, but like, everything we did
has a reason and looks like very, yeah, very intentional.
And we worked with a designer, which is Cherie's friend.
Well, Gina and I designed this thing ourselves.
Like we didn't hire an agency or anything, but we had one of my
designer friends who's now a product manager.
He helped us, like, think through some of the principles.
Thank you, Ian. I also consider myself to be a
product designer. I think I have.
I consider myself to have product design experience as
well. Not like physical products, but
digital. I mean all product managers due
to some sort of sense, but like he was.
Some more than others, but he was.
Actually a designer before he became APM.
Yeah, like a professional. Yeah.
So that is my rose. OK, So for my thorn, I feel like
I'm stretched pretty thin and I'm in like very much like a go
go go mode, which I really enjoy.
Like I love doing all the different things that we're
doing. We have matcha, we have our
podcast, we have our Japan trip coming up in May of 2025.
I write in weekly newsletter, I write for Forbes.
I create my own content on like insert like.
I have a lot of different like works.
Your LinkedIn post. I have my LinkedIn post.
I'm like growing on LinkedIn and it's it's all good things.
And then on top of like those are my work work streams, I also
have like a social life and then starting, you know, to take
dating more seriously. And then all this other parts
that like, yes, it's all good things and I need to figure out
how to balance it. But I do want to better
prioritize like what are the things that are meaningful for
me? And then how do I make sure that
I'm getting them done? This past weekend I volunteered.
That was amazing. I'm really glad I did that.
It's once a month, but like, you know, I was even like
considering maybe not doing that because I feel so busy and like
maybe I should work instead. But I'm like that's not the
right trade off. So I think getting a little bit
more thoughtful about how I make my decisions and how I use my
time would calm me down. But that's my thorn.
I just feel like I'm running around, you know?
Yeah, I mean, I kind of feel that way too.
There's like a lot going on and all of it is like interesting
and valuable and we're like excited about it, but it's just
a lot. Yeah.
It's a good problem to have, I
suppose. I guess for me, like I feel like
I have, I don't know if it was like a really, really conscious
decision, but I definitely have been less social in the last
month or so than I had been in the past year.
And I also like I kind of think you just go through phases, like
I think we said in a different episode, like different seasons
and different reasons. That was like referring to
something else, but it kind of it makes sense when it applied
to like even your career too. Yeah, yeah, it's just a lot
going on, which is what like also is like the most fun part
because I think if I felt this way in my like, corporate job, I
would be like way more stressed out or overwhelmed.
But I feel like so excited about every single one of our projects
that like, like it doesn't feel stressful.
It just feels like a lot, you know?
Yeah. OK, now we're going to take a
quick break and when we come back we're going to talk about
how our entrepreneurship journey is going.
Hey everyone, quick break to share something special.
Sisters Matcha. We've launched limited batches
of ceremonial grade single estate, single cultivar matcha
straight from the family farm which we worked on in Japan.
It's pure, authentic and crafted with intention.
Head to Sisters matcha.com to grab yours before it sells out.
Make Matcha your daily ritual for lasting energy and focus.
OK, so time for Mailbag. Mailbag.
Which is the basis of this episode.
So Kushik 100 says you guys killed it.
Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Would love to see content regarding your startup process,
IE how you guys problem solve, resources, lessons learned, et
cetera. Thank you for your question,
Kusha. Good.
Question, Really good question. I think we've gotten a bunch of
other questions like this. People are very curious as to
like what our process is and like what we're doing because I
can see from the outside why it would seem like a lot of
different things that may seem disparate, but it's all part of
a broader plan. Totally.
And I love this idea of building in public.
Like I think in the past, like stealth mode was totally a thing
like startups always talk about like being in stealth and like,
yes, I understand like if you're working on like proprietary
technology, like you need to be in stealth mode.
But building in public and sharing with you guys is so
exciting and really looking forward to diving in here.
Yeah, Yeah. So I think why don't we get
started with like the startup process since that was the first
question. So I think what I would say
about that is the first thing is to have a vision.
And Cherie and I definitely have a vision.
We actually have a very ambitious vision.
A large vision. Yeah, I would say like in a
nutshell, if I would just say we are planning to build the next
Disney. A media empire.
Yeah, the new age Disney and that's our long term goal.
And as part of that, we have like several different
hypothesis that we're trying out kind of like in tandem like all
kind of going on. The running time parallel, yeah.
And like kind of to achieve all of that, we have like short term
goals and we have medium term goals and all that we've sort of
mapped out and been like working towards all at the same time.
And we basically are trying to ensure that like the short term
goals ladder up to the medium term goals ladder up to the long
term goals. And that it all sort of like
makes sense. But the other thing I would say
is that maybe what maybe people would be surprised by is that we
are very unafraid to edit the. Strategy, yeah, and pivot, yeah.
Like even when it seems like a major change, I guess like Pivot
implies a pretty big change because yeah, when we first
started out, like our first project that we were expecting
to work on was to make like Tiger Sisters a reality TV show
instead of a podcast. So like the podcast actually
came out of like after we did a ton of.
Research, talking to like agents and producers in LA,
understanding the landscape a little bit more about reality TV
and, you know, getting an answer there.
And we're like, oh, we should probably pivot away from this
idea after we've gathered all this new data.
Yeah. And and like also I think being
sensitive to the market and being reactive to the market,
right. So like, I don't know, it's
like, you know how how right now like every company is pitching
themselves as an AI company. Gen.
AI. Yeah, well, like 4.
Years ago every company was pitching themselves as a web
three company. But like today, you would never
pick yourself as a web three company.
Just as like you know, five years ago it wasn't as fruitful
to pitch yourself as an AI company.
So I think just like. Yeah, understanding market
trends also like in terms of being successful, what if we
were to create a reality TV show, what would it take for us
to be successful? And we did a bunch of research
there, like do we think we can do that right now in this time
and place, in this environment? Like likely not.
And so we pivoted away from that idea and like, kind of like in a
week's time, we like had to let it go and move on to like our
next experiment and our next idea.
And then I think like a piece of feedback that we got that was
very impactful was just like, you guys should build on your
strengths. You guys should leverage your
strengths. And like if Cherie already has
been running a podcast for the last year and like she already
has a built in audience that is like self created on specific
platforms, then like why wouldn't we lean into that?
So I was like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah. I mean, it's like kind of an
age-old question. It's like, do you dive into the
places that you're already strong or do you like, you know,
go into a new area where you're the complete newbie and you have
like an advantage and that you see things in a different way
that people in the space already might not be able?
To and I think we're kind of doing a little bit of both
because the Matcha Matcha brand sisters matcha is the latter
where we've never built a 0 experience as somebody as
someone in another comment like people have mentioned multiple
times like why are you building a CPG company exactly like what
you guys don't know anything about like supply chain like why
are you doing this yeah I think going.
Back to the larger vision of building the next Disney, I kind
of want to dive into like the why for a little bit because I
think it provides more context and the why is important.
And so I think the ultimate vision of like where we started
when we're like vision setting is that like Gene and I want to
empower a billion people around the world to up level in their
lives, their personal lives, their professional lives and
media is a way that we can do so, especially because Gene and
I create educational content where we want to be a part of
your journey as much as you are a part of our journey.
And so like, and we were looking to like what are the companies
that are able to do that on a scale that's not just about
media, but they also have commerce in different ways.
Like Disney is known obviously for their IP in their movies and
all of that. And full-fledged experiences and
experiences going to Disneyland. Exactly.
So but they also have like Disneyland, they have cruises.
And I think, I mean, their goal in like making people happy is
something that we want to do, but we want to take it a step
further and not just make people happy, but really like empower
them to level up in their lives. And we believe that we can do
that through our content and through our different commerce
channels. So that's kind of the thinking
between like how do we help the most number of people as
possible and reach the most number of peace people as
possible. Yeah.
But if we were to answer like super specifically, like very
tactically, how do we do it? We use Trello.
So we have several different Trello boards, and every week we
review and we look at like all the things that need to be done
that are like P0P1P2, which is priority zero, priority one,
priority two. And then we have a column that's
like in progress. Yeah, it's like Sprint.
Planning, yeah. Oh, exactly, for all of you.
People who work in the tech world, we, Gina and I, do Sprint
planning. We have stand ups.
Not, I mean, we have impromptu stand ups every day, but we do
like a weekly stand up on Monday so we know what we're working
on. And Gina assigns me tasks and I
assign her tasks sometimes, and then we complete them either on
our own or together. Yeah.
And then we also use it as like a period of time to like sit
down and actually like do work together, especially like some
like sort of like annoying tasks that have to get done.
Yeah, like operational business tasks that we need to do
together. Yeah, because that needs to be
done in addition to the creative tasks like making this podcast.
Right. And so right now, so far we have
two travel boards. One is all about podcast
planning, where we plan out all the episodes and the content and
we like. Schedule that.
Schedule and like review it that way.
And then another one is our broader like startup planning
board where there's like a lot of admin and like long term
planning. And we also just recently
started one for sisters, for sisters matcha, which is more
specifically like all the tasks that we have to do for sisters
matcha. Definitely.
And I would say very tactically, Jean and I live, I don't want to
say live and die. That's like Morbid Gene.
And I live by our calendars. Like we will have a calendar
event for like basically everything we do, especially
because we work so closely together.
And then it's like nice to organize our schedules and like
sync them. It's so interesting.
Like a lot of my friends have commented that like, it's
remarkable how well we work together given that like, oh,
really? So many things are aligned.
Some of my friends are like, I love my sibling, brother or
sister, but I could never imagine working with them.
And they're like, we're so surprised that you and Jean are
aligned on so many things. It's really, really special, I
think in the timing of things and also like our view, our
working styles. And maybe there might be times
where we like disagree or like go back and forth a little bit,
but I feel like it's actually, I agree that it's remarkable.
Maybe I'm just amazing to work with.
Well, we'll have to see with your performance review coming
up. I will give you feedback then.
360 yeah 36360. I'll collect feedback from me,
me and myself, Me, myself and I. I want to go back to your
comment about stealth is dead. Yeah.
Stealth mode. Goodbye.
Stealth mode. That's in the past.
Hello. Building in public.
Yeah. I I really like that.
I mean, it was kind of a hot take.
I mean, obviously it's a generalization, you know, like
some things should be built in stealth mode.
It I mean, I was gonna say like pharmaceutical, like if you're
creating a new like pharmaceutical and it's like
super proprietary. But then again, maybe some
pharmaceuticals should not be built in self mode.
Maybe that knowledge should be shared.
So a bad example, but you know, like so many startups who are
creating like the next, like innovation in AI, whatever, like
they want to build in stealth mode.
But I think it's it's actually not just startups.
So like for me, yeah, this like building in public is really a
challenge and it's very outside my comfort zone, as are many
things that we're doing these days.
Because from for my background, like obviously Goldman was all
about like the firm. Like there was like we were
scared to death of accidentally ever saying something in like
the elevator. You have that rule right?
Like you're you're not supposed to talk about work in the
elevator at Goldman. Because you don't know who could
be in there like a client, a reporter, like competitor,
competitor. So like we were always like so
scared to death and we're always like the firm, like etcetera.
So that was like my first experience, like my first
experience out of college. And then even at Snap, we had
quite like a siloed, yeah, like we were super siloed and like
very like closed door projects. So there were a lot of projects
that I worked on that were even secret within the company.
And like only specific teams, like knew about it.
Only specific, very specific people had access to it.
Apple is the same way. Apple is going to be very
secretive. Exactly.
So we had like a lot of that culture, especially towards the
beginning, even even today, but like especially around projects
that were like hardware related and like things that are more
sensitive. Yeah, things that are more like
proprietary and secretive. So for me it's a major
departure, but I am already starting to see the benefits.
Of it, yes. Which is that, like, when you
put yourself out there and like, put what you're working on out
there, it's actually really surprising.
Like people want to help. Yeah, People want to be
involved. They.
Want to engage? Yes, and I think like, it's not
purely altruistic. It's not like people want to
help just because they want to help.
It's because they think what you're doing is like interesting
and they like want to be involved, which is kind of like
honestly my own experience too, because I advise these three
different startups and like, I think what they're doing is
really interesting. Like I want to be a part of it.
Like, I want to help them because I want to see what
they're building, like be really big in the world and like, be
successful. So that's one thing I've been
pleasantly surprised. By so far, there are many
benefits to building public public.
Yeah. I think another benefit of
building in public is that you're able to talk to your
audience and get feedback so quickly.
Like Jean and I read all of the comments.
So like we see the DMS, we see people commenting on this
design, like asking questions about it on, there's a lot of
comments on the color about this.
Blue is controversial. Blue is so controversial.
They're like some comments that I've seen is that like blue is a
color, a negative comment. Like blue is the color of a lot
of skin care stuff. Like this doesn't look like
matcha to me so I don't want it to be blue.
Well, or someone was like, Blue is historically an appetite
suppressant color. I'm like someone said that.
Yeah. You didn't see that comment.
No, I was like, guys, we're not McDonald's.
Like, we're not, we're not gonna do like red and yellow
McDonald's because we want you to like, eat more.
We're not trying to like force it down your throat like we want
you to like, opt into it. Yeah.
Well, there's also a positive comment about the blue, where
blue has like a very positive association in the sense that
like blue is a color that can be many, many things.
Blue is a color that is very versatile and can be many things
for many people. So yeah, yeah, we've, we see the
comments and I think that's good about building in public is that
we're able to get a wide variety of opinions from the people who
we would be selling to. So our customers, It's like
really important to have that dialogue.
And I think a lot of companies that are working in stealth miss
out on that. I think the other cool part like
taking that a little bit further about building in public is that
also just our friends, you know what we're doing.
And like, this is kind of like one of the first times that I've
really started to see like the value of our network, AKA our
friends, which is that just that like, I feel like so many of my
friends are just like brilliant and like so many different ways
and are just like so talented and like, because they know what
I'm doing, it's really easy to just like jump into a
conversation with them and like be like, oh, like I've been
thinking about this. Like, what do you think?
And like, I feel like we, we get, so I get so much, I get so
much inspiration from our friends and like, I learned so
much from them. And like, I feel like every few
conversations, like they, it turns into something where I'm
like, this is something that could really change the
trajectory of our entire company, what we're working on.
Yeah. It's interesting, it's amazing
to have that network. The conversations come so easily
'cause they see what we're posting.
They're just like, how is Matcha Sisters Matcha going?
And then because they're brilliant and like smart and
like their own ways, they'll bring like a nugget of wisdom.
We're like, we didn't think about it that.
Way. We should.
And then like, we'll be like, Oh my God, we need to incorporate
this. Yeah.
It's like every conversation can be a big brain conversation, but
like in the best way where it's like really fun because like
we're obviously passionate about what we're building.
And like when our friends like bring their lens and they're
like genius to it, even for just like, you know, like a 30 minute
conversation. It's like having like an
infinite amazing, like board of advisors, yeah, who have like
thousands of years of like job expertise across, like all of
them. Especially in different fields
too, yeah. Cuz we have friends across so
many different industries who bring different, like, wisdom to
what we're doing. Yeah.
And it's also fun. It's also kind of fun to like
realize that like your friends have even different skills than
you like realize that they had, you know, like when we were
talking to my friend yesterday, I was like, wait, you're like an
amazing marketer. Like I had no idea because like
the capacity I've been working with him in was like product.
We were both heads of product and I was like, what you are so
good at marketing. Like just like it's it's so fun
to discover. I love it.
Especially talking about our own
thing, it's just like we're so much more passionate about it.
And like I, I, I also really love it as well.
I would say a downside to building in public that we've
like run into a couple of times. Trolls, trolls.
Sorry to preempt you there, but I.
Mean, I wasn't even going to say that, but yes, trolls sometimes
like on our on our content, but like, that's just the nature.
That's the beast of it. And you know, I've been dealing
with online trolls for the last four years, so it's fine.
Haters don't get her down though, the haters just power
her even more. Haters are engagement.
I try to tell myself that, but I would say honestly that one of
the negatives is like building in public, but not there's like
a line. You need to like protect
yourself and fortify your company while also sharing what
you're doing because there are some trolls, for example, like
we announced, like the name of Sisters Matcha.
And I. Hadn't even like built the
Instagram page yet and like I probably should have now lesson
learned. I will.
But like someone created like a sisters matcha account that said
new like, and my guess is that they saw that I announced it and
they tried to take the Instagram name of it, you know, and like,
it was just like stuff like that where, I don't know, it's just
weird. Womp womp.
Same thing happened with like another naming convention that
we tried to do where we looked it up online domain was totally
free. We created a LinkedIn post.
Like we didn't buy it. We were going to buy it in like
2 days. We created a LinkedIn boast,
like announcing the name of something and then like two days
later the domain was taken and was like going to be sold for
like $200.00. And we're like, what the hell?
Yeah. You know, So I think it's like
finding the balance between like building in public in real time,
but while still like protecting yourself as a company and being
like wise enough to know that there are like weirdo, like
shady people who are trying to like outsmart you in some ways.
Yeah, that's something we hadn't really clearly we hadn't really
like considered that or like planned around it.
Yeah, narcs, it's OK though, I guess like if we can learn our
lesson for like $200 or whatever, then it's.
It's not that big of a deal. Yeah, we did try to buy the
domain of like another of like sisters.com or something and
someone was trying to sell it to us for like 3/4 of $1,000,000.
I was like, hello, you can keep the domain name.
That was insane. Yeah.
Anyways, like stuff like that, that's behind the scenes where
you're like, what is going on in building this company next?
We're going to take a break and when we come back, we're going
to talk about the lessons that we've learned.
Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on
Sisters matcha.com. We have sweatshirts and T-shirts
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Thank you for your support. Welcome back.
And so back to the original
question is like what are some of the lessons that we've
learned? We've been working on the
startup for the last few months. Gene, what are some of the
lessons that you've gleaned? Yeah.
I think the first one, and I kind of alluded to this earlier,
is to not be afraid to change course, especially early on.
And because we act, we are so early, like we've only launched
for like a few months. Like two months, three months.
Yeah. Like very, we're very early on.
And when I think back about like different companies that I've
been working very closely with, like there are many companies
that would have been much better off if they had pivoted or like
if they had adjusted more early on.
So like, I think that's something that I'm actually
surprised by, like how fluidly you and I have both been able to
do that. And like, because I feel like a
lot of people take it really, really hard when they have to
make major adjustments. So I think something that people
say is strong convictions loosely held, which is basically
like you want to have your beliefs but not be afraid to
take in new information and make changes and edits where where
needed. Honestly, I feel like I felt a
lot of pressure in the corporate world to stay on course because
there were so many more things at stake in terms of like
aligning people and like having your boss tell you something.
And then you have to like, manage your politics, the
politics and also like how people feel morale.
Like if we had like a team of engineers, I think it would be
like a lot harder to like move the boat as quickly because we
are moving things when it's just you and just.
Have one engineer. We just I have to manage myself.
Like I mean that it's true, though we do have to manage our
own emotions. But that's it.
And that's like not easy, but like easier, yes, because we
have each other and like we know each other so well and how we
can kind of do that and like help each other in those ways.
It's so hard when you have like an organization.
I think the other lesson I've learned is that it's OK to be
working on these several different initiatives at the
same time and to be like testing out these different hypothesis
because I'm kind of very like in the mode right now.
And I was mentioning this to you yesterday that I think like all
of the things that we're working on are for a reason.
Like even if one of them doesn't turn out to be like a major like
aspect of our company going forward, like we are going to
learn something so invaluable from it and it's going to turn
into something that never would have happened had it not been
for us doing the first thing. I agree.
I totally agree with. That statement.
So I feel like it may seem like because even outside of sisters
Matcha and outside of the podcast, we are doing a lot of
different things. So like we're speaking at
conferences, we are going and like reporting at you're going
to be a reporter at a conference.
Like, yeah, I'm a writer for. She's writer before I attended
an event last week that I'm writing like an article on like.
I'm an active investor, like we are doing a lot of things and
sometimes I feel like when we talk to our friends, they're
like, what is going on? I just tell people I'm multi
hyphen it. I'm like, do you really?
Yeah, because it is kind of hard.
I I mean I wonder if we need a better way to like package it
and. Model slash actress.
I need a way to like package and brand it maybe.
But like, you know, we're also like doing a lot with our trip
to Japan that's coming up. Like it's hard to.
Community building. I do think it's kind of hard to
explain. When I talk to my friends, I was
like, we have our podcast, I have my Instagram, I'm writing
for Forbes, we're going to Japan, we have a matcha.
Brand OK, but like in my mind, in our mind, it all makes sense,
makes sense. It all works together.
And I think like I'm leaning more into this.
At first I was not super comfortable with it, but like,
you remember when you interviewed me on your other
podcast, Sheree's Corner. Yeah, now, now since now it's
last season now wrapped up, but took me a long time to get on
that podcast, guys. Finally, finally I was asked on
as a guest. Yes.
But one of the things that you said was you were like after I
described like all the things that I have worked on in my like
history and my career, you were like, oh, it sounds like you
have always been working on the cutting edge.
And I was like, yeah, like that's pretty accurate.
And I feel like that's what's happening again here because
like what we're building is this sort of new format of a company
and of an enterprise that is not like it doesn't have an acronym
that goes along with it, right? We can't just be like, oh, it's
B to B SASS. Like it's not easily
understandable because it's an entirely new entity that I think
is going to be the basis of like many more companies to come.
Yeah, it's never been done before.
It's never been done. Babes, it's never been done.
Yeah. But so like I think the
different ways that we're building like a new language
around it too, right. So like us saying things like
oh, our company is a content to commerce company or us saying
like we are building and monetizing IP brands and
community like that's all kind of like new.
I've never really heard other people put it that way.
I actually don't think there's that many people who are doing
it this way. I like think to creators or
actually influencers like Emma Chamberlain or even Mr. Beast
who do it, and I don't exact, I think they're adjacent, but I
don't exactly think they're doing it the way that we're
doing it. Yeah.
Like different flavors for sure. It's different flavors because
Emma Chamberlain, definitely, she has her vlog, she has her
podcast, She brings you along in her life.
But it's not really like so much her business aspect as it is
more the lifestyle. Yeah.
Whereas like we're doing building in public and that is
part of our business. Yeah.
And Mr. Beast obviously like has his content and he has his like
game shows and everything, but it's not like the everyday like
minutia right His. Is much more of like a.
Grander scale of production. His is, well, I would say his is
much more of like a media company, but more of like media
on new platforms. It I think it's much easier to
like understand and much more straightforward, especially like
the direction he's gone now. Yeah, so.
So it's scary that we're doing like something that's never been
done before because like, what the hell?
But it's also just like, Oh my God, I feel like there is no
playbook and we're writing the playbook.
Yeah, it's just, it's so invigorating and like, it's cool
when you have so much conviction in something and it's your own
thing. Yeah.
I feel like that is very, very
rare because there are times when I feel like I've worked on
projects in the past. And these are, this is when I've
been like the most fired up and like, we'll be working like, you
know, 100 hours a week or something like on, on a work
project when it's like you have so much conviction in it and you
feel a lot of ownership. But this is that times like a
million. Yeah.
It's really special in that way because I've worked on my
content for the last like four years, almost five years, but
it's like only been my content, never really the business side.
I've done brand deals, but like this is like our own business on
top of that content. So for me it's a completely new
flavor as well. Yeah, exciting.
Yeah, you. OK.
And we actually have a second mailbag question that I think we
can touch on pretty quickly. So 7 Summer Grapes asks, how
exciting, Can you share a bit more about the biggest
difference in building ACPG versus software product besides
the product development process, obviously, what did you not
expect? What skills you learned prior
that's going to set you or your product apart?
OK, for this question, I have three points.
I would say the first thing that we did not expect was physical
injuries. Oh my God, my lip.
My lip is physically endured. I was quick story.
I was taping together one of these prototype things and I had
like a piece of tape and I needed to align it.
I put the tape in my mouth because you know, you're just
like you wanted to hold it on something, put the tape in my
mouth, took off the tape. It ripped off a piece of my skin
on my inner lip and I was bleeding and I was freaking out.
It was it's. Actually, she was actually so
traumatized, guys. She was so, so traumatized.
I like waxed, accidentally waxed the inside of my lip with this
piece of like Scotch tape. Never do that.
Do not put tape around. It's like actually APSA, it's
like you know when you see those PSA's on TikTok that you like
send to all your friends that are like don't drive with like a
claw clip on the back of your head.
This was a PSA. Never put tape around sensitive
skin. I don't know if you're doing
that otherwise, but literally my lip was like bleeding and like
now it's still healing and I'm just quite.
Unhappy. OK, I just had to give her a
chance to get that. Out Thank you.
That was, but it is true it. Is almost made it as my thorn.
Almost made it as my thorn. I didn't want to draw attention
to it, but yet here we are. OK.
So that's the first one. The second one I would say, I
don't know, this is kind of obvious, but turn around time,
right? Like software is so freaking
fast. Like there are times that I
would have an idea for like an augmented reality lens, and then
the next day it would be made and then the day after that it
would be in the app. And the day after that would've
been used by like billions of billions of times.
Billions, billions. Well, The thing is like so far
it's been fast turn around because we've been working on
the digital side. We've been creating this logo.
So whenever Gina and I have a new idea, we can change it.
Now that this is being made into like the physical canister like,
the times for wait are going to be much.
Longer now is the turn around time now is the turn around so
now we're waiting which. They're creating a sample to see
what it looks like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's just different because I don't know, when you work in
software, you're always like in the mix, like you can always be
like editing and changing things all the time.
Not that you not that you necessarily should be.
It's not always the best practice, but you can be.
And then I would say the third thing I've noticed that's
different. The thing I've noticed already
is obviously scaling, right. For like software, you just
build it one time and then you can scale indefinitely versus
like this. It's obviously a physical
product and the way that we chose to do it is we are
actually making even within the category of that physical
product an ultra premium version of that.
So the fact that it's single cultivar, single estate,
ceremonial, like all of that, it's literally from a single
family farm. Yeah.
So like we are obviously constrained by the operational
capabilities of the family farm, which has three like 3 non farm
employee, non farmer employees. Yeah.
So and so that part is very different.
But I actually think that almost like, I don't want to say
subconsciously because I don't want to like not give ourselves
credit for this, but like the fact that we decided to go ultra
premium with it actually fits really well.
And the fact that we're doing it all small batch, it actually
fits our approach really well. If it fits our approach.
And also I know there are ethos, there's a lot of like
influencers who have created matcha brands themselves.
And I think a lot of it is centered on like their love for
Macho, which Gina and I have obviously because we're creating
this brand. But I think behind it too,
there's like we it's small batch, small family farm.
Like we're connecting with this like one family who owns this
one farm. Like I've seen some influencer
like behind the scenes of their like matcha videos and how they
process their matcha in Japan. But like, it's these like giant
warehouses and factories, and that's not what we're doing at
all. She would never.
Yeah. I mean, it's going to be a
problem if we want to scale to like 3,000,000 canisters of
matcha. Right now we have 300 that we're
going to smell, Step we're going to sell small we're going to
smell. She's going to sell.
She seashells by the seashore. 300 that we want to sell small
batch but like yeah so like. It's what was that again?
Sell small batch. We're going to sell 300 that
we're going to sell small batch. Exactly.
So, yeah, it, I don't know, it's, it's special.
It is, it does go hand in hand with our ethos of who we are and
what we want our company to represent.
Yeah. So those are the things that are
different. I would also say like one way
we're trying to differentiate ourselves because like there are
a bunch of matcha brands out there is the storytelling.
It's like so important to understand, like Jean and I
believe like what you're buying and what is the story behind it?
Because like people now you, you, what's it called with your
dollars? You support, I don't know, and
you support with your dollars. It's like you, you like opt in
with your dollars, you like express yourself with what you
buy. Like even like everyday
consumable purchases are now like what I consider to be like
ego expressive. Like every time you make a
purchase, it's saying something about yourself, right?
Like. Exactly.
Like one thing one way Sheree and I've been sort of like
jokingly referring to it is just like the yasa fication of like
so many different categories. So like 10 years ago, if you ask
someone like, Hey, what's your favorite olive oil like nobody
would have an answer because nobody knew olive oil brands.
And now there are so many that are like very heavily branded,
beautifully designed, artisanal. Like you understand the they
have varietal too. Yes, my favorite is Pikul, but
of. Course you have a favorite olive
oil varietal. But that's happened, that's
taken like 10 years to start to like come to friction and like
it's actually happening to a lot of different categories because
also I think because, OK, this is maybe a hot take and it's
like very new, but also things are generally more expensive to
buy now. Yeah.
So like. Inflation.
Yeah. So I feel like people maybe want
to be more intentional about even purchases that used to be
very just like no thought. Given to it, Yeah, I think.
I mean, there is like a very intentional consumerism now and
even though like we would love it if you would buy our matcha
because of us and like support us as creators.
I would say like in addition to that, like who we are as
creators is like working and telling the story of the small
family farm that I worked on. And like, what is the history of
tea farming in Japan? Like just very briefly, like the
farm that I worked on, like surrounding it, like those tea
fields have been owned by like 7th, 8th generation tea farmers.
There's a huge problem in many Asian countries and in Japan of
aging population. And so many of these tea farmers
are, you know, aging out and they don't have people to take
over their farms because their kids are living in the cities
nowadays. It's like this whole like
National Geographic, like, you know, esque type of view into
like the tea farming industry, which is like a huge historic
part of Japan. And that's like a story that
like, interests deeply, deeply. Interest.
Yeah. And we haven't even talked about
that at all ever. Like basically like not to put
too fine of a point on it, but like by buying this matcha you
are supporting literally like financially supporting the
regeneration of matcha tea farming in Japan.
Small, yes. Tea.
Small family owned, Yeah. In Japan, and that's like no one
does. Which is a dying.
Practice and no one's talking about that.
And like, yes, you can buy this like new fancy type of macho
that like some influencers create, you know, some brand has
created. But like the story behind ours,
like I love like connecting and isn't saying that it's the
National Geographic point. Do you know what I'm trying to
say? It's a kind of like the
documentary aspect. Of it, yeah, I get what you're
saying. It's like the academic, the
history, like the learning about, like where does this come
from? That is just like so cool to me.
Not really with matcha, but like whenever like I buy like a piece
of pottery or like even a piece of clothing, especially when
you're like travelling to a new place.
Like I just want to know about its origins and the historical
context in which this was created, who created it.
It's just like, I like that. I don't.
Know, I think you're not alone in that.
I think that more and more so people of our generation, more
so your generation are like very invested in the like provenance
and like the heritage of every single piece of clothing they
wear, like every piece of like, you know, skin care, like
everything that they consume. Like people are much more
intentional than than ever before, which is very different
from like, I feel like my generation is like kind of the
like forever 21 like Zara in detects like fast.
Fashion like to be to be like devil's advocate though, like I
still see, still see that aspect because like Sheehan is massive
here and people know exactly what Sheehan's doing.
And that's like fast fashion foundation.
Yeah. So I don't really know how to
like grok like this growing trend of like young people being
very conscientious, but then also other like the masses still
wanting the mass produced stuff I think.
It's not one or the other. I think people are doing both at
the same time. Like it just depends on your
your wallet, right? So like people, they're buying
Xi'an, but if they if they could afford it, would they buy like
Loeve? Like would they buy like they're
buying Sheehan for clothes, but then they're buying like one
really like special pair of shorts from like Lisa Sezga or
something like that? I don't know that brand.
Well, yeah. So like I think like they're
choosing or they're like going to their favorite coffee or
matcha shop and like buying like a $7.00 matcha like every week
because that is says something about them, but they can't
afford to do the equivalent when it comes to like a full.
Outfit, right. That's interesting.
It's like it can take place in like, certain parts of their
daily habits, but maybe not all parts, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. People are still, I think like
graduating into that, but and then also that I think that's
why like vintage shopping has come back into fashion like so
hard because it's like a way to do that and a way to like have
automatically like a story and like a history to your outfit
and your clothes and a way to be unique, but at a more affordable
price point. And there's also like a little
bit of like clout that comes with vintage shopping as well in
that like, it is good for the environment.
It is good to reuse and buy like used clothing.
So I, yeah, it's interesting. Thank you guys so much for
tuning into this episode of Tiger Sisters.
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And we would so appreciate it if you could share this episode
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Thanks so much. See you next time, bye.