1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,000 I'm 35 now. What advice would you give to 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,200 your 35 year old self? Figure out a way in life to 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:07,800 pause. Find your pause. 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,840 Find your thing that allows you to step away. 5 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,680 Find a new way of looking at whatever the situation is, 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,360 business, personal, etcetera. If you pick your habits that are 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,760 personal to you, I think you you design A life of N of one your 8 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,600 life. I think you'll find more success 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,720 in life. The more that we let habits come 10 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,920 in from somebody else, the less happy we are. 11 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,080 What is your favorite city to travel to? 12 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,640 Is it Aspen or the Hamptons? I love both. 13 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,160 I love surf lodge in Montauk. I love the snow lodge in Aspen. 14 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,560 I actually like going to Tokyo, Japan. 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,120 Who is the crazy successful but also low key serial entrepreneur 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,720 who sold his startup for $850 million to Oracle and has 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,320 invested in over 100 startups himself? 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,840 Today we talked to Jonah Goodhart and side note, he's 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,920 also the co-owner of one of the hottest spots in the Hamptons, 20 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,480 the Surf Lodge. We're your Co hosts. 21 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,480 I'm Cherie, I'm Jean, and we're the Tiger Sisters. 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,840 In this season of Tiger Sisters, we interview the most amazing 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,120 set of founders, CEO's and business leaders. 24 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,240 First, we talked to Jonah in an interview and then right after 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,680 that Cherie and I talk about all of our takeaways from the 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,440 interview in kind of like a Business School case study 27 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,480 method way. We'll get to the interview. 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,960 Right after this break. Hey, guys, quick. 29 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:43,360 Break to let you know that we now have merch on Sisters 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,920 matcha.com. We have sweatshirts and T-shirts 31 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,640 that we designed ourselves. Go check it out and please rate 32 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,560 US five stars on Spotify and Apple. 33 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,560 Podcasts. These ratings are so. 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,160 Important for the distribution and. 35 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,280 Survival of Tiger Sisters podcast. 36 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,080 Thank you for your support. Jonah, why don't you start with 37 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,600 introducing yourself? So I'm Jonah Goodheart, I am the 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,040 Co founder of a company called Mobian. 39 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,479 We're building an AI powered contextual classification 40 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:11,840 engine. So said really simply, we want 41 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,560 to build a new way to look at the content on the Internet by 42 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,640 leveraging AI. OK Jonah, I'm 35 now. 43 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,160 What advice would you give to your 35 year old self? 44 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:28,640 The advice I would give to my 35 year old self is figure out a 45 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:34,080 way in life to pause. The idea, I think of pausing is 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,480 incredibly impactful. And by pause, that can mean 47 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,240 taking a break. That can mean stopping what 48 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,520 you're doing In the religious world, maybe it was on a certain 49 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:46,800 day. We don't do things. 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,440 And if you sort of step back from that, it's essentially 51 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,320 taking a pause. It's stopping. 52 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,000 It's not being a part of it. In some ways, it's the only way 53 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,080 to get out of some of these cycles that we're in as a 54 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,960 society is just to say I'm going to pause and be a participant in 55 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,120 that for some period of time. And So what I would say is find 56 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,720 your pause, find your thing that allows you to step away and find 57 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,440 a new way of looking at whatever the situation is, business, 58 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,960 personal, etcetera. Yeah. 59 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,440 Oh, I fully subscribe to that because I think my generation, 60 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,560 like millennials, a lot of people are discovering 61 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,240 sabbaticals for the first time, especially a lot of people who 62 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,600 are like, in their 30s and haven't taken time off for like, 63 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,680 you know, life milestones such as like taking like a month off 64 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,760 for, you know, your wedding and honeymoon or taking maternity 65 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,240 and maternity leave. Like people are now like baking 66 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,280 in sabbaticals into their like, overarching career plans. 67 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,920 Totally. And I think it's also just on a 68 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,040 daily basis, figuring out what do you do during the day that 69 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,880 gets you to step out of it, right. 70 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,200 So there's these things where we feel like we have to take some 71 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,920 action or we have to respond or we have to post something on 72 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,520 social media or go back and forth. 73 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,480 I think the only way out of that dynamic is to pause is to 74 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,000 disconnect is to say I'm not going to be a part of whatever 75 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,120 that thing is. And so I think figuring out what 76 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,360 is it in your world that lets you pause on a daily basis? 77 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,800 Not be on e-mail, not be on text, not be on social media, 78 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,040 not whatever The thing is that is pulling you in One Direction 79 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,000 or another. Stop doing it for some period of 80 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,360 time as a daily habit. I'm a big believer in daily 81 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:28,400 habits and that if you pick your habits that are personal to you, 82 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,120 I think you you design A life of north of one your life. 83 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,920 And if you pick your habits that matter to you over time, I think 84 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,400 you'll find more success in life. 85 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,440 And I think that the more that we let habits come in from 86 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,760 somebody else, the the least, the less happy we are. 87 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:45,800 I. Love that. 88 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:51,240 OK, Jonah, what was your first job and how how did that 89 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,600 influence your career or like how you approach work today? 90 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,160 Yeah, my first job was working at Dairy Queen, painting a fence 91 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,880 and picking up trash, so. Huck Finn. 92 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,800 I thought it was great. I I loved it. 93 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,400 I loved the idea that I was independent, that I could make 94 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,880 some money even though it wasn't much money, but the idea that I 95 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,920 can do something and feel some sense of, of pride, of, of being 96 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,560 able to be independent. I think that the idea of working 97 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,760 hard was instilled in me at A at a young age. 98 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,080 And I think there's something really, really great about it. 99 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,600 I think that we have this idea so-called retiring and you know, 100 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,480 all of these different concepts that we sort of created a 101 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,280 society and it's great if you want to retire, whatever that 102 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:38,360 means to you, Wonderful. More more power to you. 103 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,280 But I think there's something that we've sort of missed. 104 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,240 And I think the thing that we've missed is what my oldest brother 105 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,400 calls the happiness quotient. And the idea of the happiness 106 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,080 quotient is that you see people who are 100 years old and they 107 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,680 don't seem like they're the healthiest person. 108 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,280 And they eat bad food and they're not exercising. 109 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:57,600 They're not doing the things they're supposed to do. 110 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,640 And yet they live to 100. And you see other people that 111 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,880 are in incredible shape, and unfortunately, they die early. 112 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,120 And the difference perhaps is not just whether they follow a 113 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,800 healthy regimen. The difference perhaps my oldest 114 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,040 brother would argue, and I agree, is something that we 115 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,320 don't totally understand. And that has to do with 116 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,520 happiness and the the idea that if we're happy, if we're living 117 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,360 the life that we want to live, that maybe that contributes to 118 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,720 longevity. I see people like Warren Buffett 119 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,200 in the business world or Charlie, it was 93. 120 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,960 I think Charlie Munger died at 99 1/2 years old. 121 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,200 Growing up eating, you know, fast food and, and soda every 122 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,920 day and not working out yet lived a lot longer than Warren 123 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,200 Buffett, still living than a lot of other people. 124 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,040 I think the difference is they figured out happiness. 125 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,720 They figured out what was happy for them, what they enjoy doing, 126 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,800 what what drove them. And I think there's got to be 127 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,720 some, some of the calculation has got to be that it can't 128 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,760 simply be that you have to eat perfectly and live this perfect 129 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,200 healthy lifestyle because we see lots of examples of people that 130 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,080 that do that and they're unhappy. 131 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,440 And so I think it's trying to figure out how do you, how do 132 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,040 you get the happiness for you? The happiness quotient. 133 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,840 I like that. I'm going to start start quoting 134 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:14,840 you. Quoting your brother. 135 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:22,040 OK, How about what failure in your life are you most grateful 136 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,360 for and why? Well, I have had plenty of 137 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,240 failures. One of the failures in my life, 138 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,440 in the in the business world was that we built a company, my 139 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,920 middle brother and I in college and we were doing phenomenally 140 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,320 well. We thought we were the top of 141 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,600 the world, that we had figured everything out. 142 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,960 And we even got an offer to sell our company to Lycos at the time 143 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,920 and we turned them down and we thought this company is never 144 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,760 going to never going to stop growing, crushing it. 145 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,640 It's going to be incredible. And within a year that the 146 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,200 business had almost completely gone out of business and of 147 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,520 course, the offer to sell the company was no longer there. 148 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,760 Now, as it turns out, had we done that deal, we would not 149 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,800 have ended up on the path that we got on, which is we partnered 150 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,960 with somebody else. We ended up helping create 151 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,160 another company, which led to a third company that we were 152 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,960 involved in. And have we not done that? 153 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:19,880 We wouldn't have gone down the paths we're on today. 154 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,520 And so I think you don't know, I think Steve Jobs actually said, 155 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,280 you don't know how these things are going to connect in the 156 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,760 future. And so you, you can't sort of 157 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,040 judge it too much in the in the moment, but at least if you have 158 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,000 a belief that things happen for a reason and I and someone who 159 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,600 believes that things happen for a reason. 160 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,000 And so you don't know what that reason is going to be today, But 161 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,960 keep a positive attitude as best you can and and keep driving for 162 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,480 happiness. Yeah, I'm the same. 163 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,080 The older I get, the more I subscribe to that. 164 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,280 But were you like, devastated at the time? 165 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,080 Yeah, I mean, we were definitely seriously disappointed because 166 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,680 it felt like it's, it's worse to feel like you had something that 167 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:03,360 you lost, right, if you didn't have it at all, if you didn't 168 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,720 get to that point. Prior to that we were a couple 169 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,200 of kids on financial aid at, you know, college. 170 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,720 So we didn't have anything. So there was nothing we were 171 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,440 concerned about. But at that time we were, we 172 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,880 were given an opportunity for life changing financial reward 173 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,680 and etcetera. And we turned it down. 174 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,800 And so you feel like, oh man, we really made a mistake. 175 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,840 We really messed that up. And, and you start sort of 176 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,880 questioning everything. And I think that you, you don't 177 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,880 know how that road is going to, is going to lead. 178 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,520 And so if I could go back and talk to my younger self, I would 179 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,720 say don't sweat it. Yeah. 180 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,520 It all happens for a reason. I love that. 181 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,720 What's a hot take or like a contrarian belief that you have 182 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,920 in your industry? Well, one of the things I've 183 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,840 been in the digital advertising and advertising measurement 184 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,240 industry for a while and digital advertising now for 26 years or 185 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,480 so. And one of the things I think 186 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,560 that I've learned is that advertising is just about 187 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:08,080 people. And I think if you mentioned 188 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,160 advertising to people, they go ads. 189 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,240 Everyone loves to hate ads, right? 190 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,360 They think, oh, it's an ads thing, it's whatever. 191 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,120 Yet advertising, if you think about it, is storytelling. 192 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,480 That's what advertising is. It's literally just paid 193 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,680 distribution for storytelling and storytelling is the most 194 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:27,520 foundational concept of, of humanity. 195 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:30,480 That's how we communicate. It's how we've communicated over 196 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,840 centuries. And so for me, I think there's a 197 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,440 misunderstanding at some level of what ads are when done well, 198 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:40,760 right. And, and in any industry, in any 199 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,480 category, when not done well, nothing is good in that in that 200 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,160 case. But when done well, ads can be 201 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,800 inspirational. They can be certainly 202 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,280 informative, certainly fun, and it is truly a story. 203 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,960 And stories can be heartfelt and meaningful and drive us and help 204 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,920 us be happy. You're really good at 205 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,120 storytelling. That was really good. 206 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:11,480 OK, just two more. What is something that you feel 207 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,840 like is really valuable that you've gotten out of conference 208 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,080 or like what what were you looking forward to most from 209 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,400 conference? Like, I don't know those. 210 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,200 The number one thing I get out of conference is just the 211 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,680 interactions of the people. Imran is such a force of nature 212 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:32,040 and he brings together really not just people who have done 213 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:33,680 something interesting in their lives. 214 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,760 And all the people at those events have done something 215 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,240 interesting, but they're people who are intellectually curious, 216 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,000 who want to learn, who want to talk, who are not just coming in 217 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,000 and leaving as people do at some events. 218 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,400 People are coming here for the purpose of interacting with the 219 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,440 other people who are here. It's small event. 220 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,600 It's invite only. I'm honored that I've been able 221 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,400 to attend Imran's conferences since he since he started. 222 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,920 And there's something special that that he has curated here. 223 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,640 And it's, it's a group of people who want to learn, who are 224 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,280 humble and who are willing to put themselves out there and, 225 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,360 and learn something. And some of the people you walk 226 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,240 around and you go out, this person leads up 10s of billions 227 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,200 of dollar public company, $50 billion public company, $100 228 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,160 billion public company. And yet they're walking around 229 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,280 with everybody else and not just there, but having conversations, 230 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,800 engaging, wanting to learn from you and, and vice versa. 231 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,680 And so I think he curates just an incredible environment where 232 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,960 people want to meet each other. And in the end of the day, I 233 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,920 think business is about people, right? 234 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,080 The thing that we misunderstand about AI, the hottest topic and 235 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,880 certainly something that I believe as probably most of us 236 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,280 do watching this, that it will revolutionize the entire world. 237 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,640 It absolutely will. But in the end of the day, I in 238 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,680 the end of the day, AI is here to serve people. 239 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,040 We don't go away in this whole AI equation. 240 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,680 We may change some of the things we do, but in the end of the 241 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:03,480 day, it's still we're still going to be there. 242 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,080 We're still going to eat food, we're still going to interact 243 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,280 with each other. We're still going to have dreams 244 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,200 and visions and goals. And AI is going to be there to 245 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,720 help support us as human beings. And so I think that the 246 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,640 interesting thing is humans plus AI and how that that future 247 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,280 works, but it is AI in service of of people. 248 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,760 What is your favorite city to travel to when you're taking a 249 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,680 break and is it Aspen or the Hamptons? 250 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,680 My favorite city. I actually, I don't know if I 251 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:38,160 would say Aspen or the Hamptons, although I love both. 252 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,680 I love Surf Lodge and Montauk. I love the Snow Lodge and Aspen, 253 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,880 but I actually like going to Tokyo, Japan. 254 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,840 And the reason I like Tokyo is because it is so completely 255 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:57,200 different from my world. It is one beautiful and 256 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:02,360 imaginative and creative, but it is an environment in a society 257 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,560 that cares about things in a really unique and special way. 258 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:08,920 You won't see trash all over the place as an example. 259 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,240 You will see people that take honor in what they're doing in 260 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,920 their day-to-day lives and you see just a incredible 261 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:18,880 environment. A lot of people, a lot of 262 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,600 business still. People transact. 263 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:21,880 Lots of things are still happening. 264 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,760 It's a successful, very successful society and culture, 265 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,720 but it's very different from other places. 266 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,320 And so I think going to Tokyo and going to Japan in general is 267 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,280 an opportunity to pause and really think differently. 268 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,680 Certainly I'm American, I was born here, and so being able to 269 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,840 be somewhere that is totally different and looked at things 270 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,560 that totally different way is is incredible and fun and 271 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,800 inspirational. So I would say Tokyo for a city 272 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,240 and Japan are the country. Oh, fantastic. 273 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,320 I'm we're going in November. Yeah. 274 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,400 OK, well, that's it. Great job. 275 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,680 Oh my God. What an interesting conversation 276 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,040 with Jonah. That was really special, super 277 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,200 thoughtful, and I'm so excited to get into the takeaways. 278 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,040 But before we do that, Please remember to like, comment, and 279 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,960 subscribe. We would so appreciate it if you 280 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,440 could rate US five stars if you're listening to us on 281 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,880 Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and we'll get right the takeaways 282 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,560 after this break. Hey everyone, quick break to 283 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,760 share something special. Sisters Matcha We've launched 284 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,440 limited batches of ceremonial grade single estate single 285 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,480 cultivar matcha straight from the family farm Sheree worked on 286 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,280 in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and 287 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,160 crafted with intention. Head to Sisters matcha.com to 288 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,320 grab yours before it sells out. Make matcha your daily ritual 289 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,400 for lasting energy and. Focus. 290 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,440 And we're back. Let's start with Cherie. 291 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,360 What was your first take away? So something that I think the 292 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,400 viewers and listeners will not see because it was off camera is 293 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,120 that before this interview that we had with him, we literally 294 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,720 sat down with Jonah for like an hour and. 295 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,560 You know, like longer than an. Hour I lost track of time, but 296 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,640 like, we sat down, we talked about our life stories. 297 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,240 He's so interesting and so incredibly humble and like, he 298 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,480 doesn't even mention it because like in this interview, he just 299 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,240 doesn't say anything. He's literally sold one of his 300 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,760 previous startups to Oracle for $850 million. 301 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,480 Wait, I literally forgot that. Isn't that insane? 302 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,080 I forgot. That yes, and of course he 303 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,800 doesn't mention it because like all these, I think very super 304 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,320 successful people are just like incredibly humble and don't like 305 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,600 they don't hype themselves up. So Gene and I need to hype them 306 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,560 up. He's also worked with his 307 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,040 brother. He had, he told us that he has 308 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,840 like more than one brother, but he's like worked with like both 309 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,600 of them in different capacities, which is so interesting because 310 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,000 like I think it's special working with a family member. 311 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,400 He's talked about that and also he is part co-owner of the Surf 312 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:03,040 Lodge in Montauk and then also a similar one but a ski version in 313 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,599 Aspen. He's just like, so humble, so 314 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,280 interesting, so smart and thoughtful, but like. 315 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,599 Yeah, he's kind of a renaissance man, He really is. 316 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,240 And he also like, I don't know if this like comes across as 317 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,359 much in the like, interview setting, but in our conversation 318 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,880 with him, like I have to describe him as mesmerizing. 319 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,160 Like, why else do we have did we like end up talking to him for 320 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,720 like an hour and a half? Like learning his entire life 321 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,920 story, like telling us telling him our life story? 322 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,280 Like he's just. He makes you feel special, like 323 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,720 he's one of those people. Like, you know how they always 324 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:41,640 say that there's like people who, like when you talk to them, 325 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,200 all they focus on is you? Yeah, That's like he that might. 326 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,880 Be his superpower. I think so, yeah. 327 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,640 Which is why I think in this interview he made lots of eye 328 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,960 contact with. The audience, he's mesmerizing. 329 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,520 He's mesmerizing. So I just wanted to put that in 330 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,640 there because I definitely know that did not was not mentioned 331 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,800 in the interview, so. Yeah, we like, didn't talk about 332 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,120 his accomplishments at all. We're so rude. 333 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,120 We're like, just tell us your advice. 334 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,800 Yeah, give us advice now. Yeah, I really liked that. 335 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,520 Jonah, when we asked him about his first job, he brought up 336 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,240 working in Dairy Queen. The biggest take away for me is 337 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,440 that, like, no matter what you're doing, no matter what 338 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,480 your job is, whether you're a kid or you're an adult, like do 339 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,360 it with pride. Every job is hard, and you can 340 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,520 always find pride in what you're doing. 341 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,040 And I think those people who are who are able to do that just 342 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,200 like go away further, you know, like people can tell that you're 343 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,320 like proud of what you're doing and proud of the craft. 344 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,400 Yeah, like recognizing the value of work. 345 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,360 Absolutely. Nobody works anymore. 346 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,800 Nobody works. Anyone, if you're feeling like 347 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,800 honestly with yourself that you're like not proud of what 348 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,280 you're doing or you're not proud of your output, your 349 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,960 deliverables with work, then like maybe you're not working in 350 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:04,880 the optimal role or job that is like right for you at this right 351 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,440 time. Jonah was saying that some of 352 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,600 the things he did was dairy at Dairy Queen were like painting 353 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,880 the fence, picking up the garbage. 354 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,280 Like I don't think he was like, this is going to be my role 355 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,600 forever and this is my like dream role in life. 356 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,720 But he was like, this is where I am now and I have pride in what 357 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,680 I'm doing in my contributions. And he he said also, I think he 358 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,640 said that it taught him basically just the value of hard 359 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,880 work. Like, it's not like a like a new 360 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:37,720 concept, but I think having that early on in your life and 361 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,680 learning to kind of like also enjoy what you do is important. 362 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,800 Because he also then related it to the idea of the happiness 363 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,160 quotient and the idea that, like so many people think of work as 364 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,600 just something to like muddle through from 9:00 to 5:00 from 365 00:19:53,600 --> 00:20:00,040 the ages of, you know, 18 to 67 or whatever it is. 366 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:01,920 And then you finally get to retire. 367 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,640 He is very much of the mindset where he was like, no, I think 368 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,760 the happiness question is if you enjoy what you do, you never 369 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,520 want to retire. You want to keep doing it. 370 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,640 And he used the example of Warren Buffett and Charlie 371 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,120 Munger where they were and still are investing well into their 372 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:22,200 90s. And they're, you know, legends 373 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,680 at. The Craft. 374 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,880 And like, that's kind of his, like his role models. 375 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,320 If you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life, 376 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,680 is what they say. Not to be trite. 377 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,480 Not to be trite, but like when I see professors at Stanford, 378 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,200 especially the ones that are like pretty old, like 379 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,000 objectively like in their 70s, they have many decades of 380 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,240 wisdom. Like I think of Glenn Kramon and 381 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,320 Joel Peterson, Irv Grossbeck who are in their 70s, and also Irv 382 00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,200 Grossbeck I think is 89 like and still teaching at Stanford GSB. 383 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,880 Legendary legend that's like, actually legendary. 384 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,440 Well also I had a coffee chat with him, he was kind enough to 385 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,520 like. He wasn't even my professor. 386 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,680 I didn't have a class with him but he did a last lecture series 387 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,280 with us. That really touched you? 388 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,000 Yeah. I was like writing notes the 389 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,160 entire time. And then I asked him for coffee. 390 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:19,120 We sat down, I told him my life story, and then I was just like, 391 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:20,440 So what? What's next for you? 392 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,680 Like in in teaching in your journey. 393 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,040 And he's like, he's like, well, I'm going to be teaching at 394 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,320 Stanford until like I start ruling. 395 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,560 I love that yes. And I think to me that. 396 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,120 Even then, why let drool stop you? 397 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,960 Seriously and gross. Grossback needs to to widen his 398 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:39,680 horizon. That's. 399 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:45,400 True. I think to me that is a model of 400 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,960 happiness. I think it keeps the brain 401 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,160 going. If you can keep working into 402 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,680 your 70s and 80s, late 80s, that that is a goal of mine actually. 403 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,080 I don't know if I love what I'm doing. 404 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,840 I don't want to stop working. It's exciting to me. 405 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,320 Yeah, because it's not really, I guess it's work, but you're kind 406 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,000 of, you're building, you're creating, you're generating. 407 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,120 Well, now they're empowering too, and like bringing up the 408 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,320 next generation. They feel like they have a hand. 409 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:17,160 And like, yeah. Curating, massaging the minds 410 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,640 you know of young people. I've always thought that after I 411 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,560 retire, whenever that is, I would become a professor. 412 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,720 I've had this like sort of dream ever since I went to Dartmouth 413 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,760 that I would then move to Dartmouth, buy a house on Occam 414 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,320 Pond which is the main pond where. 415 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,000 People go ice skating right Where people. 416 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,280 Go ice skating and then be a professor at Dartmouth. 417 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,280 You would want to live in Hanover. 418 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,200 I don't know. You would fly in. 419 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,640 From Washington State. Yes, exactly. 420 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,400 Long commute. Yeah, that's pretty long 421 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,400 commute. Yeah. 422 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,840 I think it'd be fun to be a professor. 423 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,880 I I also would want a role where I would have influence over 424 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,080 young minds and also. Power. 425 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,480 No, it's more like. Guiding. 426 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,680 Yeah, like I think guiding people, helping people learn, 427 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,760 and also like, I think it's really interesting, like what 428 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,520 Imran said in our conversation with him, like having a. 429 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,560 Pulse like that's true and. Checking in with young people 430 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,800 and that's true what's going on all the time. 431 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,160 Like how exciting if I'm when I'm 80 and I can have friends of 432 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,560 different generations who are in their 20s and 30s and they'll be 433 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,240 like on like the hippest whatever. 434 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,000 Like they're not even born yet when I'm 80. 435 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,720 Like those people are not even born yet. 436 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,920 Can you even imagine? They're -60. 437 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,720 Or maybe they're born. Actually, they're born right 438 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,280 now. Okay, you know, it would be 439 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,480 really like a kind of like cool goal or North Star is for if 440 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,760 you're like my goal is to be the coolest 89 year old everyone 441 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,960 knows and then also for me to like still be friends with 442 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,280 people of all generations at any age. 443 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,680 I think that's hard. My speculation is that I think 444 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,280 that's hard to do. But if you can achieve it, like, 445 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,280 you will live a very rich life, very rich life. 446 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,080 I can't. I mean, if you're 89 and like, 447 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,440 you don't have grandchildren and you're not like, friends with, 448 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,400 you know, people of that age, like, how do you even meet young 449 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,080 people? Like you guys are in different 450 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,160 spheres, like you don't really come across one another ever 451 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,960 socially. Well, I mean, I figure, you 452 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,320 know, a lot of my friends will be young because I'll be dating 453 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,920 like a 25 year old AI, you know? Well then, will your friends 454 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,400 just be a is? The AI will listen. 455 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,720 In the future the AI will have both AI and human friends, so 456 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,000 it'll be a mix. OK. 457 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,040 And they'll be embodied AIS. I didn't. 458 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,040 Know what you were going to say you were going to be dating a 25 459 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,200 year old, AI. I thought you were just going to 460 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,480 stop at saying you're dating a 25 year old, which I was like 461 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,280 sure, go give more power to you Mama. 462 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,480 One take away that I really liked from Jonah that seems 463 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,440 simple but is hard to execute, he said. 464 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,600 Figure out a way to pause, and I feel like there's so many 465 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,160 different ways you can interpret it, right? 466 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,800 Because a pause can be any length. 467 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,640 That's what you. That's what he said when you 468 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,880 asked him what his advice was to his younger self. 469 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,480 Yeah. I was like, what's your advice 470 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,280 for your 35 year old self? Yeah, he said figure out a way 471 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,880 to pause. And like, initially I had 472 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,200 thought he met. Like the way I interpreted it at 473 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,280 first was I thought he meant like take a sabbatical. 474 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,520 Yeah. Because I think like at 35, 475 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,000 usually you've been sort of like grinding in your job and like 476 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,040 rising through the ranks and like building up your career for 477 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:48,200 like 20 or so years already. Wait, not 20, like 15 ish, 478 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,320 something like that. But then he also meant it in a 479 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,440 sort of like daily way. Yeah, I took it as a more daily 480 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,560 way. That was my interpretation of 481 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,480 it. One of the examples that he said 482 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,360 was he meant it in like a weekly way. 483 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,840 He was like, oh, like, for example, you have the Sabbath. 484 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,920 That was like the original intention of it is every Sunday, 485 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,680 God was like, put down your smartphone. 486 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:20,200 He's like, put down your slaves. Put down your, put down your 487 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:25,120 hieroglyphics. And just enjoy the people around 488 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:26,640 you. Yeah, like something like that, 489 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,080 like gather. And so I guess I actually like 490 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,760 that it's kind of vague because there's so many different ways 491 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:35,920 to. Apply it, yeah. 492 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,320 But all of them are true. That kind of makes me think 493 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,880 about my schedule. Now I you and I are working like 494 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,800 every single day. Should we have a day of pause? 495 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,680 Yeah, as God intended us to have. 496 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:54,000 Like if we wanted to instate it. Yeah, a little bit. 497 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,680 More and be more intentional. Yeah, about it. 498 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We kind of do that on Sundays. 499 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,760 Like when we had our like groove, we had like our cardio 500 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,400 dance class, we had our farmers market that was really nice. 501 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,480 And of course we like built in work, but I like, I like that 502 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,800 routine that we had. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be 503 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,880 Sundays, although I guess it's good because then it would 504 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,640 coincide with like most other people. 505 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,280 Right when like stores are off so closed sometimes or 506 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,040 restaurants are closed early, you know, like people are trying 507 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,040 to rest as well. Yeah, yeah. 508 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,800 But I do think like you're very good at building it, at baking 509 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,040 in moment of pause, like on a daily basis. 510 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,920 Yeah, cuz you make the matcha. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 511 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,960 She makes the matcha. I know you're gonna, like, give 512 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,480 me a backhanded compliment. You're like, you're so good at 513 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,640 resting. You're just so good at resting. 514 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,480 You're. So good at not doing it you're. 515 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,400 So brave in taking the time that you need every day. 516 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,600 To like not do anything. When I am just like working so 517 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,240 hard, like on the side and you could see that I'm like killing 518 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,400 myself. But you're still brave to honor 519 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,680 your truth. Thank you. 520 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,400 Rest yes, thank you. I mean, honestly, I think I 521 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,440 should be doing it more because like, I don't know, it's just a 522 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,800 lot. We're grinding a lot. 523 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,760 Yeah, I also think like not to like talk too much about this 524 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,640 topic, but there also is a difference between like active 525 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:31,160 rest and then like distracted rest 'cause I think I do a lot 526 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,920 of like distracted rest because my way of like winding down and 527 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:43,120 like disconnecting I guess is like watching TV or like it has 528 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,120 been recently. And so, but you're not really 529 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,320 like resting, you're still consuming, even if it's 530 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,560 something as like mindless, like beautifully mindless as like 531 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,320 Love Island, for example. Famously Jeans favorite TV show. 532 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,720 It's not my favorite TV show. I just think it's one that a lot 533 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,040 more people should give a chance to. 534 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,120 And you know, you don't need to be snoppy about it. 535 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,720 What do you think about disconnecting that? 536 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,120 Like if you were to trade in because you only have a limited 537 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,960 amount of time to rest, what if you were to trade in your 538 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,120 connected rest to disconnected with disconnected rest, like 539 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040 just to get off Wi-Fi and you've been doing that, you've been 540 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,600 taking walks and stuff. But like, I wonder if you could 541 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,200 do more of that to like actually feel more rested. 542 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,520 It's hard because sometimes when I'm doing my like TV watching, 543 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,400 I'm still multitasking. I like I'm still doing the rest 544 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,560 at the same time. That's not right. 545 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,240 Resting. Yeah, I don't know. 546 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,280 No, it's it, There's not judgment. 547 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,080 It's just, I think an observation like that's not 548 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,560 resting and maybe that's. Also, it's like relaxing, but 549 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,720 it's not really pausing. Not yet. 550 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,560 You know she's trying to. She's trying to put different 551 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,760 labels on it. Your brain is still working one 552 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,800 way or another. Like I think you should do water 553 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,240 coloring or your jewelry making like that is like, to me 554 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,400 disconnected, more disconnected. If you're looking for a way to 555 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,520 pause more rather than relax, because sure, maybe they are. 556 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,400 They are different sometimes. I say good things sometimes. 557 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,560 I'm saying because I don't know if I agree with her, but we 558 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,080 don't need to get much more into it. 559 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,280 What do you guys think? What's the harm in trying? 560 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,040 Yeah, OK. Well, let us know what you guys 561 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,040 think between like resting, pausing. 562 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,320 Do you have like a routine around it? 563 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,520 Yeah. I don't know if it's partially 564 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,680 because he's been so incredibly successful, but he's, he's very 565 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,080 much of the mindset of, you know, things happen for a 566 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,840 reason. Like he, he said that like a few 567 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,400 different ways. And I think like one of the 568 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,600 things that he reflected on or one of like his experiences was 569 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,560 that he said when he was really young, he and I think his 570 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:07,280 brother had started a company and they basically they had made 571 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,560 like what at the time was a massive blunder of turning down 572 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,400 like an acquisition offer for what he says was a life changing 573 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,200 amount of money that like wasn't even ever imaginable to them at 574 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,600 the time. And after they turned it down, 575 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,600 like, the opportunity basically, like, went away. 576 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,000 Like, the company kind of crumbled. 577 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,720 And I think he spent, like, a lot of time. 578 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,440 He didn't say this explicitly, but I think it's like, only 579 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,920 natural to have a lot of regret after that and be like, oh, my 580 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,200 God, I made the wrong decision. Like, how could I have done 581 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,760 that? But it ends up being that, like, 582 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,360 that is what eventually led him to start that next company that 583 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,760 then he sold for $850 million. And then like let him do on like 584 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,040 all the things that he's achieved ever since then. 585 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,160 Yeah. So I don't know. 586 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,480 It's like one of those things where it's like, is it 587 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,920 attribution like backwards looking attribution bias? 588 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,360 Is it? Is that a bias? 589 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,600 Just like if you're like telling the story, being backwards, 590 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,960 looking like you can attribute one thing to another when like 591 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,600 maybe they weren't actually related, but he he thinks that 592 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:15,920 they're related. Yeah, right. 593 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,960 Life is all related. Well, he quoted Steve Jobs. 594 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,840 He was just like, it's this famous Steve Jobs quote where 595 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,960 Steve Jobs in his like 2004 commencement speech or something 596 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,800 was just like, you could Only Connect the dots looking 597 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,440 backwards. You have no idea. 598 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,120 How these things lead to one another. 599 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,840 But like, your life is all related, yeah. 600 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,320 Yeah. So I think sometimes it's 601 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,480 important to remember that when things seem not great because, 602 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,720 like, I don't know, there's always going to be a time, I 603 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,240 think in everyone's life when you're like, holy crap, I made a 604 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,520 huge mistake or I think I've made a huge mistake. 605 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,840 And when you hold on to, you know, decisions that you've made 606 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,000 with, like, a lot of regret when you could just potentially spend 607 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,120 that energy on something that's more forward-looking. 608 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,720 Yeah. That's definitely something 609 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,880 that, like, I personally try to have been trying to work on 610 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,280 like, the last few years. And one of the things he said is 611 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,040 like, he's like, I remember he said something about like, oh, 612 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,040 it's almost better to have never had something or like known that 613 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,120 something was offered to you, then to, to lose it, to feel 614 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,360 like you've lost it. I think that's very much like 615 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:37,560 human nature, because human nature is to be loss minimizing 616 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,240 as opposed to like gain maximizing or something. 617 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,280 Like people are always more likely to want to protect 618 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:49,000 downside and not lose what they have versus like put it all out 619 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,880 there to try to gain something more. 620 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,200 Yeah. I think it's challenging 621 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,080 day-to-day to like, have that mindset. 622 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,160 But it's like. Obviously, like he's so 623 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,200 successful that is just like, oh, this is what the mindset 624 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,720 that he's had and how it's helped guide him through life 625 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,040 and he could connect to the dot. I was just like, I kind of love 626 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,960 that. I want to I want to be reminded 627 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,719 of it every single day. Thank you guys so much for 628 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,440 tuning in to this episode of the Tiger Sisters. 629 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,880 Please remember to like, comment and subscribe. 630 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,480 And if you're listening to this podcast episode on Spotify or 631 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,600 Apple podcast, we would so appreciate it if you gave us a 632 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,440 five star review. It only takes a few seconds and 633 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,320 it means the world to us. Thanks guys. 634 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:29,760 See you next time. Bye.