1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,840 Welcome to the Season 2 premiere of The Tiger Sisters. 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,480 Yeah. We're back, baby. 3 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:09,000 We're back. We're so bad, we're so bad. 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,080 It's like we never even left. Hi I'm. 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:12,720 Jean. And I'm Sheree. 6 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:17,160 And we're the Tiger sisters. In this episode we are going to 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,160 be talking all about the dynamics and the obligations of 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,240 immigrant and 1st generation children. 9 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,360 So this might be a heavier episode, but like Children of 10 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:27,600 immigrants, we're looking at you. 11 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,440 This episode is for you guys, we hope. 12 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,840 You it's just not talked about that much. 13 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,440 So like that's why we thought it was important, even though 14 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,120 honestly, like it's a more difficult episode for the two of 15 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,520 us to do. Like I would love to hear this 16 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,960 dialogue from someone else, from other people. 17 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:45,880 Yeah, you know. So it's like, that's like kind 18 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,080 of how we decide our topics and how we're like, you know what, 19 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,440 this is not an easy thing to talk about. 20 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,240 But like, I wish I could hear other people who I consider to 21 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,600 be my peers or look up to and respect, like talk about this 22 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,520 topic and how it shaped them and like how they think about it. 23 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,920 That's what we're doing. Yeah, the discourse, at least to 24 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,760 our knowledge, does not yet exist in the way that we're 25 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,160 looking for it. So like we're creating it. 26 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,240 It's actually really difficult for us to do that, you know, 27 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,840 like emotionally and mentally. But I think it's a worthwhile 28 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:28,320 pursuit. Before we dive in, Please 29 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:31,320 remember to like, comment and subscribe. 30 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,480 Gene and I read every single comment that you guys leave in 31 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,800 our YouTube, so please let us know what questions you have. 32 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,440 Yes, we love Mailbag. Yes, we have a mailbag segment 33 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,920 where we read all the questions and comments you guys leave and 34 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,240 we incorporate them into our future episodes. 35 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,200 Yeah. And especially if you guys like 36 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,000 certain topics, we'll do AV 2 of that episode. 37 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,560 Like we've already gotten some questions about the friendships 38 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,880 and we've gotten questions about the friendships episode, so I'm 39 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,400 thinking we should do a follow up on that. 40 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,480 Yeah, and then and then also dating part. 41 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:02,280 Two. Yeah. 42 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,520 OK, so for our premiere episode, we are bringing back roses and 43 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,720 thorns finally. Oh my God, it's been too long. 44 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:14,320 OK, so Cherie, tell us about your roses and thorns. 45 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,720 OK, so it's actually like harkening back to one of our 46 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,760 first episodes. Guys, I think I know what she's 47 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:24,920 gonna say. Oh yeah, so my Rose. 48 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,840 I'm so back, baby. Oh my gosh, she is so popular. 49 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:34,680 OK, so guys, in the beginning of our season 1, I we had a rose 50 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,680 and thorn and one of my big thorns was that I was feeling 51 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,920 existentially lonely, like profound loneliness because I 52 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:43,560 had moved to a new city. And I no longer feel that way. 53 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:47,240 It's actually really nice because now I feel like I have 54 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,880 my social groove. I'm like meeting people for 55 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,200 dinner, for events and all this stuff. 56 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,320 And so like, I honestly feel the pendulum has swung the other. 57 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,360 Way she's so busy, she has dinners every single night of 58 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,520 the week. Like nobody does that in LA. 59 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,880 Like it's just not. It's just not. 60 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,680 It's really uncommon. It's not like it's. 61 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,200 Kind of like a flurry of like hanging out with people now. 62 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,600 And I'm really enjoying it. In fact, I need to like, slow 63 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,440 down and be like, oh wait, I definitely shouldn't book myself 64 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,000 like on Monday and Tuesday because I need a rest. 65 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,640 But yeah, I feel like my social battery is very, very full right 66 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:21,400 now. Yay. 67 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,440 And also, not to say I told you so, but I knew it would happen. 68 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,400 Yeah, somehow you knew it would happen. 69 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,920 You knew I would bounce back, although I knew I would bounce 70 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:33,240 back too. But like, in the moment, I was 71 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,760 just feeling like really sad. Yeah. 72 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,920 When you're in it, you're like. I know, like it's hard to. 73 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,040 Imagine like a time that you're not in. 74 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,280 Like I feel like my cups are very full now, like career wise, 75 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,560 like social wise and like all the different aspects. 76 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,920 I'm like, oh, like I finally feel like I'm settling in a 77 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,120 little bit, which leads to my thorn. 78 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,280 This is similar to how Jen Tran had someone in her life emerge 79 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,640 when she least expected it. Someone from my past has emerged 80 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,760 when I am. Dang, she's going there. 81 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,600 When I have not expected it at all. 82 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,560 And so while I've really felt very settled in my life here in 83 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,600 Lai was like a little bit nervous because like now I'm 84 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,560 kind of like dealing with something and I'm not going to 85 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,800 go into detail about it, but like someone in my past has come 86 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,400 up, you know, it's caused a lot of, I think like. 87 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,760 Consternation, consternation. Consternation. 88 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,000 Like, I don't know, like a lot of like emotions and like 89 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,280 flooding and a lot of like all this other stuff going on. 90 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:37,320 But I think throughout it like I like I was like, this is kind of 91 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,720 annoying that this is coming up similar to Gentran. 92 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,360 Like you don't expect it. Like Gentran on The 93 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:42,680 Bachelorette, you don't expect it. 94 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,400 But I'm also just like life goes on. 95 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,080 I have to deal with it like my life. 96 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,400 I can't put my life on pause like deal with this thing that's 97 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,200 come up from the past. So just like taking it in 98 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,840 stride, but like with all my other roses, I'm just like, this 99 00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:00,040 is kind of I have comments. All right, What's your comment 100 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,680 so? I think one thing that I'm proud 101 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,640 of you that you did a good job of is that you like talked about 102 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,400 it with different trusted friends, including me. 103 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,200 And I just felt like when you gave me the feedback that your 104 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,440 friends gave you, I like was really able to see that they 105 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,000 were like very high quality friends kind of, and that 106 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,600 they're like really thoughtful. They're really thoughtful people 107 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,800 with good judgement. So like that actually what? 108 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,280 Because they said similar things that you said, yeah. 109 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:37,000 So yeah, I'm a thoughtful person with good judgement, especially 110 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,480 when it's like, not yourself, you know, like when, when 111 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,040 you're, it's yourself, like you can't. 112 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:43,320 You don't see it as clear. You can't, yeah, you can't like 113 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,320 see the the like scenery or like the landscape in the Chinese. 114 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,200 Yes, that. I guess that's the phrase sort 115 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,880 of. And it's also it's like you're 116 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,080 bored of trust Board of advisors situation. 117 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,760 I have a board of advisors to go to in terms of like, you know, 118 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:06,560 career, professional stuff, love life, like different friends for 119 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,560 different reasons and different like trusted advisors in that 120 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,280 way. So yeah, we're kind of, we're 121 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:14,040 moving past that. We're moving and grooving. 122 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,800 We're getting through it and yeah, we'll see how that goes. 123 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,800 Nice. OK, Jean, So what is your rose 124 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,920 and thorn? OK, my rose and thorn are 125 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,760 related. So it's kind of a little bit 126 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,280 similar to what you said. But basically my thorn is that 127 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,200 like over the last week, I was just really, really like heads 128 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,240 down and working a ton. And it was coming off of I had a 129 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,880 cold the week before so that I was like not really doing 130 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,400 anything and I had to cancel pretty much like a whole weekend 131 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,760 like weekend of plan. So I was kind of bummed about 132 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,680 that. And then right after that, I was 133 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,560 just like, working a ton the whole weekend, like barely to 134 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,480 catch up. Yeah, to catch up and like, 135 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,720 barely saw anyone. But like, I wanted to work too, 136 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,160 you know what I mean? Like, I wanted to, like, get 137 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,000 through all the stuff. And I was just like, really in 138 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,360 the zone. And I felt like I was like in 139 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,120 Sprint mode. But then I also was just feeling 140 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,920 like, I don't know, like a lot of my, it's like in the time 141 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,640 period where everyone's kind of like travelling to Europe and 142 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,080 like going to a lot of weddings. And like, that's the sort of 143 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,360 thing that I typically would have been doing and like was 144 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:27,960 doing pretty consistently, like when I was with my ex fiance. 145 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,040 And so like it was just like. It was just did you get FOMO? 146 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,880 Not even like FOMO really, but just kind of it's like when you 147 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,720 are like watching like a story where you're like, oh wait, like 148 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,320 that is like usually me. That's like the old me. 149 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,920 That's like what I would have been doing, but then I'm not 150 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,880 doing that anymore. I'm doing something totally 151 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,840 different, you know, like I just have like a very different life. 152 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,040 It's like you're watching like, like the alternate version of 153 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:58,880 like what your life would have been. 154 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,280 So like watching all my other friends, they're like doing all 155 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,760 these things that I usually would have been doing, but then 156 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,920 I'm, I'm not doing it. So yeah, I don't know. 157 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,120 It was just. It's not. 158 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,160 That's a little bit trippy. Yeah, it is. 159 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:13,840 Yeah. It's like, it's like watching a 160 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,680 scene or a movie of like, yeah, like how your life would have 161 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,760 been, but it's not now. I guess I'm still processing it. 162 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,440 So I just said the exact same thing. 163 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,240 Yeah, no, I feel that. I've never been there. 164 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,720 Before and that's zero advice for me guys. 165 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:30,560 I have no. Advice. 166 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,280 This is a one way street. I have no sad for me. 167 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,840 That just sounds really tough and I hope you get through it. 168 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,640 Yeah, no, it's not. It's not that like bad. 169 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,039 It's more just something you're noticing that I'm noticing. 170 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,360 Yeah, like, and it's just, I guess it's like a little bit sad 171 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,720 still. Like it's just like remnants of 172 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:55,840 like the life that never was world or more like the the life 173 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,040 that never will be. Yeah, yeah. 174 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,200 I guess with that specific person, although I feel like 175 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,360 that life is very possible with. Someone else as well that's. 176 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,720 True, it's not like that won't happen ever. 177 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,040 Yeah, that's true. It will happen just with someone 178 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,920 who is. A different person, yes. 179 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,880 To someone else, yeah. So. 180 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,600 Wow, who? Who said I didn't have advice? 181 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,520 That was pretty smart. Yeah, it was like, you know, 182 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,480 boilerplate, but that's not a compliment. 183 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,160 Boilerplate means like. Stand up. 184 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,640 I know a boilerplate. OK, but you're like acting. 185 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:37,240 She's like acting all like smug as if like that was like a 186 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:42,440 compliment. OK, so that was the thorn. 187 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,000 I guess. I didn't even really realize I 188 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,240 was going to like express it that way. 189 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,280 But the Rose is that. Now, on the flip side of all of 190 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,360 that, it's like all of these different like opportunities 191 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,600 have started coming up and Cherie and I have like a bunch 192 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,600 of conferences coming up, which I'm really excited about. 193 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,120 And I'm also like speaking at a conference. 194 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,920 That is like a pretty big deal to me, at least with. 195 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,080 Like, no, it's a big deal. It's a big deal, It's a big deal 196 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,800 deal. And I am so excited to brag 197 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,400 about Jean about this because I think we just generally have a 198 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:16,680 hard time bragging about ourselves. 199 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:19,320 But it is so cool. There's Jean's getting a lot of 200 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,680 different speaking opportunities where like companies are flying 201 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,960 her out, like very reputable companies flying her out, like 202 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,520 posting her up and she's going to be speaking on panels to like 203 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:34,000 investors and business people who look up to her and her 204 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,800 expertise. It's, it's a very, I'm really 205 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,120 excited because it's like a super qualified audience and 206 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,960 it's like people that run like between between them are 207 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,920 managing like probably like trillions of dollars, like 208 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,880 literally. So I'm just really excited about 209 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:51,520 that. And also I'm like looking back 210 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,600 now on like a couple of like really random speaking 211 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,440 opportunities that I just like said yes to and I like had no 212 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,200 idea what I was getting myself into. 213 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,040 And I just like did it. And now I'm like, oh, I'm so 214 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,520 glad I did that because then I had a chance to kind of like get 215 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,200 back into public speaking True in a more like low stakes way. 216 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,320 Even when you did one when you were very sick. 217 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,520 Oh my God. But you didn't know you. 218 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,000 She didn't really know she was that. 219 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:17,880 I know. You know. 220 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,520 If you know what I mean. So yeah, those are my rows and 221 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:28,200 thorn. So obviously we have mailbag, 222 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,880 mailbag, mailbag. I want to play the like blue. 223 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,160 School time. Yeah. 224 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,560 OK. So we actually once again, we 225 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:41,920 have received a lot of questions on the same sort of topic. 226 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,320 But generically they're all pretty much questions. 227 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,880 A lot of them are about how, asking about how we were raised 228 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,240 and asking about our childhood. And we've also received 229 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,240 questions about what would you do same or different for your 230 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,280 future children? So I think one of the reasons 231 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,000 why we've gotten this question so many times, like over and 232 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,560 over again in our Instagram videos and our YouTube videos is 233 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,560 because on, I think on the surface, people see something 234 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,640 and then they're like really curious to know like how it 235 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,720 became like on the surface, we are the Tiger sisters. 236 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,360 You know, in our intro video, you see all of the institutions, 237 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,280 the like industries behind our background and our 238 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,680 credentialing. And so people are just like, how 239 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:23,800 did you get this way? And I get that. 240 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,200 And I'm also people like your personality and like they see 241 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,080 that we're generally like well adjusted humans in society. 242 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,400 And so they're like, how were you raised by your parents? 243 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,880 And so while I understand that's a very like natural question, 244 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,640 Gene and I have honestly gone back and forth on like really 245 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,760 how to do this episode. It's a bit tough for us to 246 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,160 address. And I think we're really excited 247 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,320 to dive in here. But I think just some context 248 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,440 setting, it's not something we talk about often, honestly. 249 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,080 Like if you've watched me throughout the years on my 250 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,040 social media, like I don't really talk about my family. 251 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,840 Like now Jean has become such a big part of my Instagram and 252 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,200 social media, but like, I just usually don't go there. 253 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,680 And I've obviously never talked about it publicly because I've 254 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,480 never talked about anything publicly. 255 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,040 She's still beginning to talk about stuff, but you know, like, 256 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,480 you know, I've talked about so much stuff on my Instagram, 257 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,400 everything and I share about my life, but I don't really share 258 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,520 about this aspect. Usually I keep it quite private. 259 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,000 And so I think in sharing this, you get to learn more about us 260 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,480 in a deeper way. And you know, I think it's also 261 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:34,320 a process for me just quite honestly of like I'm also 262 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,240 learning to learning what it means to share this kind of 263 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,320 stuff as well. So thank you for being here with 264 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,200 us and thank you for understanding before we even 265 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,160 dive into the context, like where I'm coming from. 266 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,760 So setting some context, Jean and I are seven years apart. 267 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,520 We grew up in New York and I think First things first, we are 268 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,960 children of divorce. Our parents were divorced when I 269 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,360 was in middle school, and so Jean was in college. 270 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,120 But you know, we, we saw a lot of the pre divorce stuff before 271 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,880 then and I think the environment that we grew up, grew up in was 272 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,520 often times very chaotic. And that's probably very much 273 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,160 sugar coating it. And I think I'll just leave it 274 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,160 there. And I think throughout all of 275 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,960 that, like our parents are immigrants, adding that to the 276 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,040 equation. And I'm an immigrant. 277 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,600 And Gene's an immigrant. I moved to the US when I was 11 278 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,160 months old. I was born in Brooklyn, 279 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,160 Brooklyn, NY Forget about it. Forget about it, forget about 280 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,080 it. Forget about it. 281 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:39,760 And, you know, soon after then, like I moved to Long Island, 282 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,320 where Jean and I then ended up growing up and much of our 283 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,240 formative years ended up being on Long Island. 284 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,800 And I think Jean can also dive into a little bit more of her 285 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,280 experience moving as well a little bit later. 286 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,840 So just setting some context there like it. 287 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,520 Was. Oftentimes very tumultuous, but 288 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,120 I think coming out of it, like Jean and I are super close 289 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,320 because of I think a lot of the stuff that happened in our 290 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,520 childhood that was not very nice. 291 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,240 And I think throughout it all, like we grew up mainly I think 292 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,520 with like a very strong single mother or a person who had to be 293 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,560 very strong because of the situations that we were in. 294 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,280 And so a lot of our personality, I think, is derived from all the 295 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,520 shit that we saw and we did and how we had to adapt and honestly 296 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,920 survive in, you know, a child's context of like how to survive 297 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,520 through all of that. And so I think I'm just going to 298 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,600 leave it there. I think that's like already very 299 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,560 heavy. And I think if we feel 300 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,120 comfortable later on in this episode or future, we might dive 301 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,120 into it. We might not. 302 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,800 But that's just some context Setting is like, you know, how 303 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,040 people talk about having a chip on their shoulder was just like, 304 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,040 oh, I think this is a chip. And then some, you know, of us 305 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,040 trying to strive and then also making it work. 306 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,680 And if you are a child of immigrants, you know that 307 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,440 they're I'm talking to you guys right now. 308 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,600 Like, you know, that there's like so much that comes with it. 309 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,680 Like, you know, the family dynamic, you know, parents 310 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,960 coming to the United States with like nothing more than like $5 311 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,080 in their pockets. Like I've heard that story, 312 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,000 internalize that story, and it just like children of 313 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,000 immigrants, I think have a lot of pressure. 314 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:21,360 Yeah. And like the level of 315 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,160 expectations and I think in many, many cases a very common 316 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,360 story is that the parents give up what is, you know, often 317 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,560 times like a very stable. Life. 318 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,280 Perhaps, yeah, not just stable, but a lot of times, like 319 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,240 guaranteed to be upper middle class or even like wealthy lives 320 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:45,520 in their home country in order to come to this new, you know, 321 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,880 come to the United. States they sacrifice 322 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,080 opportunity, yeah. Yeah, and like, give opportunity 323 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,360 to, you know, their children. So this might be a heavier 324 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,280 episode, but like Children of immigrants, we're looking at 325 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:58,920 you. This episode is for you guys. 326 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,440 We hope you. It's just, it's not talked about 327 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,280 that much. So like, that's why we thought 328 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,359 it was important, even though like honestly, like it's a more 329 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,280 difficult episode for the two of us to do. 330 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,760 It's just I would love to hear this dialogue from someone else, 331 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,319 from other people. Yeah. 332 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,480 So that's kind of how we decide our topics and how we're like, 333 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:22,440 you know what, this is not an easy thing to talk about, but I 334 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,079 wish I could hear other people who I consider to be my peers or 335 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:30,560 look up to and respect talk about this topic and how it 336 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,440 shaped them and how they think about it. 337 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,200 So it's kind of what we're doing. 338 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:38,960 Yeah, the discourse, at least to our knowledge, does not yet 339 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,080 exist in the way that we're looking for it. 340 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:44,840 So like, we're creating it. And it's actually really 341 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,680 difficult for us to do that, you know, like emotionally and 342 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,560 mentally. But I think it's a worthwhile 343 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,000 pursuit. To kick off this episode, one 344 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,960 thing I found to be helpful when it's a more difficult topic for 345 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,720 me personally to talk about is find some other voices that have 346 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,720 already spoken about it. So I found this one article that 347 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,040 was written, the Duke Chronicle, and it's about basically 348 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,760 children of immigrants on Guilton Drive, and I'll just 349 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,680 read it. Susan Cheminor, class of 2027, 350 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,600 says when I study for a test, I'm not simply being a good 351 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,960 student. I'm making good on a promise. 352 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,760 A promise that I won't let the sacrifices of the people who 353 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,560 came before me go to waste. That's heavy. 354 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,840 That's like really heavy shit, right? 355 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,000 Yeah. It's like such a good 356 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,920 encapsulation of like every single thing, like the way that 357 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,600 you kind of walk through life as a child of immigrant, right? 358 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:43,360 It feels like everything you're doing is not just for you, but 359 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:47,360 it feels like it's for your parents, your grandparents, 360 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:51,040 great grandparents, your ancestors, you know, the history 361 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,400 of trauma that they went through. 362 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,920 Yeah, right. And at least. 363 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,560 We know the history of our family trauma, yeah. 364 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,840 And it's kind of, it's not that healthy, but like, I feel like 365 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,280 what's ingrained in you as a child is like your level of 366 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,160 trauma, like whatever it is is never going to compare, which is 367 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,400 true, right? Like we never had to be. 368 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,320 We've never been like, victims of war, right? 369 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,400 That's true. We've never had to contend with, 370 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,360 like, starvation, yeah, like, you know, droughts or 371 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:25,960 starvation. And this is just true across 372 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,320 like so many minority like friends that I've spoken to. 373 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,040 I don't really know what to do with that mindset. 374 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,400 I know because it is a hard way to go through life, like you 375 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,760 just put a lot of pressure. You put a lot of pressure on 376 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,000 yourself and you're like, I'm not going through war or 377 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,640 starvation. Like my life is fine. 378 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,480 But then I also don't think that's a really, like, feasible 379 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,920 way. Yeah, It's like when things 380 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,880 actually do matter, like. I know, like the unhealthy way 381 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,080 to think about it that I think I have in the past has been like, 382 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,240 oh, like I didn't have to deal with like starvation, war or 383 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,880 like, you know, child labor. And I still can't get into Yale. 384 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,240 Like that was like, that's like the most toxic way that 385 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,560 honestly, I did think of. That was like my way of thinking 386 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,400 for a long time. Well, I'm glad you moved past 387 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,000 that because I feel like for mental health reasons, like, 388 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,680 yeah, it's not best to have that mindset. 389 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,920 But like, I do hear where that's coming from. 390 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,120 Like just going back to this quote, it's just like, I mean, 391 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:27,080 also the generations before us, like people who are in their 392 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,640 like nineties, 80s, seventies, 60s, like they've had things 393 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,600 were not easy. I think they're still not easy 394 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,000 today. But like, for our like, great 395 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,400 grandparents, like, Oh my God. Yeah, I think there's also like 396 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,040 very much across all many immigrant cultures, this idea of 397 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,920 like hard work and sacrifice, sacrifice. 398 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:52,240 And like because so many of our predecessors, their achievements 399 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:57,000 are due to hard work. They kind of see that as like AI 400 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,320 don't know like Panacea or what's the, how do you pronounce 401 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,840 it Panacea, right. They see that as the sort of 402 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:07,760 like Panacea in some ways, or at the very least, like the basis 403 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,160 of everything, right. But also at the same time, hard 404 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,400 work is not, is not all you need. 405 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,520 And that's something that I feel like a lot of immigrant parents 406 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,320 like don't really, because they don't have that context of like 407 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,640 what it's like to like grow up and, and live and try to thrive 408 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,680 in like this new social structure, the new social 409 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,680 structure of being in a different country. 410 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,120 So like, it's not like you can't just like hammer your way and 411 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:37,440 like hard work your way through everything. 412 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,200 Yeah, I think a lot. Of things are out of your 413 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,680 control, honestly. I think it's a good starting 414 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:42,600 point. It's a good. 415 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,640 Starting point, but it's like, I feel like it's like ingrained in 416 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,560 you so much that, like, it eventually becomes a limiting 417 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,440 belief because you think that you can kind of do anything or 418 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,040 get anywhere with hard work. And you assume that the world is 419 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,800 a meritocracy in some ways because it is when you're in 420 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,640 school in a lot of ways. Right. 421 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,120 Yeah. Literally grades like tests. 422 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:05,640 Great. So interesting. 423 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,640 Yeah, it's because like it also I think in the IT depends on the 424 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,320 industry, but like a lot of industries are more regimented 425 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,840 that way where it is a meritocracy, for example, like 426 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,320 being a doctor for the most part, like getting into Med 427 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,840 school, like it's your grades that matter it. 428 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,480 Actually makes so much sense now. 429 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,400 Why like immigrant families push their daughters or push their 430 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,800 children to be doctors and lawyers? 431 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,920 Because literally like getting into a good law engineer all 432 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,720 goes, yeah, more engineers, but getting into a good law school 433 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,400 all comes down to your LSAT and your grades very much. 434 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,920 There's less like exogenous factors. 435 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,000 They're all for the most part, it's like more within your 436 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,320 control, like the harder that you study, yes, and the higher 437 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,960 the ground. That's within your. 438 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,280 Control, yeah. Whereas like such a good 439 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,880 correlation. It really is. 440 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,840 And like because that I think that's a lot what a lot of 441 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,920 immigrant families know to be true in their home countries and 442 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:03,440 in the US, if they can replicate that in these specific domains, 443 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,080 they can also see and find similar success. 444 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,920 Yeah. Versus like if you think about a 445 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,040 lot of the other industries, like even the ones that we've 446 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,320 been in, like finance, technology, media, like media, a 447 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,280 lot of it is not just about working hard, but it's about 448 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,240 having an edge, right? And having an edge comes through 449 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,160 information. How do you get information 450 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,440 interpersonal relations, right? It's not just like you can't 451 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,480 just hard your hard work your way to like information in those 452 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,480 industries. Something I would like to come 453 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,960 back to that I've been thinking about is the stories that we 454 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,200 tell. We were saying we've heard the 455 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,240 stories of, like, sacrifice about our great grandfather. 456 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,160 And like, those are the stories that are told from generation to 457 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,560 generation. It has a theme of sacrifice, of 458 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,640 loss, of hard work and duty. And those are the narratives 459 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,040 that I think are passed down in many immigrant families, 460 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,040 especially Asian ones. And I find that to be quite sad 461 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,040 because I haven't heard stories that are told about like, love 462 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,760 and laughter and fun times. And it makes me believe, maybe 463 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,680 incorrectly, maybe correctly, that those were not present in 464 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,160 our family ever. Like, maybe they did have a 465 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,440 laugh at the dinner table, but those? 466 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,280 Tough. Those are never the stories that 467 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,680 are told in our immigrant family, you know, dynamic it. 468 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,200 And I, I hate that, but like I, I don't really know what to do 469 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,040 with that. I would like to change it going 470 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,760 forward, but so much of the stories we tell ourselves and 471 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,800 that we here dictate how we feel about our family history. 472 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,120 I do think some of that is cultural because I feel like, I 473 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,440 don't know, it's like a spectrum, right? 474 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,160 Like, do your stories that you tell and pass down, like, do 475 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,360 they tend to be more positive or do they tend to be more like, 476 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,760 kind of like negative coded, you know? 477 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,040 Yeah. The thing is, like, you know, I 478 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,760 don't know. It's a story about resilience 479 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,040 and grit. So that's the positive side. 480 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,240 Exactly, That's what I was going to say, is that on the flip 481 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,840 side, it makes you, sorry I cut you off, but like, it makes you 482 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,680 work harder, right? Like, even though we haven't 483 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,440 gone through those hardships ourselves. 484 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,360 Yeah. Like hearing those stories like, 485 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:19,240 make us almost like act in a way as if we did. 486 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,720 Perhaps, but is it out of like internal positive motivation? 487 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,040 Or is it from this quote, the guilt and the duty that comes 488 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,080 out of it? Like what is the motivator? 489 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,440 Does it matter? I would say for our mental 490 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,360 health, it probably does. I think the distinction 491 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,440 probably. Matters. 492 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,760 Yeah, maybe. For the end result, it doesn't. 493 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,960 But then maybe without those stories, like we never, I mean, 494 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,800 I'm sure without those stories and that background and like 495 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,560 that sort of pressure that we had taken on, we never would 496 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,160 have pushed ourselves to do all the things that we do even like 497 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,000 now. Like, maybe like on the surface 498 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,120 it looks like we're just like making a podcast day-to-day, but 499 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:03,240 like, it's, we have a grind. No, it's not just a grind, but 500 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,480 like, we have like huge ambitions for this, like 501 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,680 massive. I'm just gonna put it out there. 502 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,880 Yeah, like, really big. Like, truly Walt Disney World 503 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,040 coming for you. No. 504 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,160 Truly though, like, we wanna, like, change the world with what 505 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,320 we're doing. It's kind of beautiful in that 506 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,000 way. Yeah. 507 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,560 Come, maybe come from a, a harder, rougher place, but I 508 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,520 think it's come into, it's grown into something beautiful, which 509 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,320 I really love. But then I, I think another 510 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,200 question is just like, if you don't grow up in these 511 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,000 circumstances, like do you have that same edge? 512 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,120 Yeah, I would love to know. Like this is where like I'm 513 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,920 going to ask you guys like please chime in, like please 514 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,120 comment like I want to know. Like, if you don't have that 515 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,200 chip on your shoulder in this way, yeah. 516 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,120 Do you need a different chip on your shoulder to, like, have? 517 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,640 I mean, sometimes, I mean, this is, I'll just put it out there. 518 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,400 Some people are like people who have everything handed to them 519 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,680 in life, like don't have enough drive. 520 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,720 And that's why as a parent, I'm not going to give my kids, you 521 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,880 know, Yeah. Like, but, you know, that's a 522 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,840 different chip on your shoulder that you won't be ever good 523 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,000 enough or you won't measure up. But like, yes. 524 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,600 And then you want to prove yourself that way. 525 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,520 Yeah, yeah, there's a discussion. 526 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,440 Please have the discussion in the comments because we would 527 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,080 love to hear your thoughts. Or like even if you, even if you 528 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,720 do like 100% identify with us or you're or you're like, Oh, well, 529 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,520 I agree with like this part that you're saying, but not this 530 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,080 part. Like I want to, I want to know, 531 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,520 like I want to be a dialogue. Yeah, I'm like genuinely 532 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,520 curious. I want to know what you guys 533 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,520 have to say and how you think. I feel like we should have 534 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,720 another person on this podcast who, I don't know, just like a 535 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,560 third voice. Yeah, I do think that's a good 536 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,160 idea. Like we could basically like 537 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,320 maybe have this same, we could like have this same 538 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,880 conversation, but having like a third perspective would be 539 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,960 really interesting. Like someone who's like outside 540 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,960 of our family basically. Yeah, totally. 541 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,080 I'll just share another quote that really stood out to me in 542 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,000 that same Duke Chronicle article. 543 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,920 And it it goes through the lens of immigrant guilt. 544 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,320 To be productive means to toil, to suffer, and to drown in 545 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,400 Google Calendar appointments. That one just like really hit 546 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,560 home for me because I'm like freaking obsessed with my Google 547 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,640 Calendar and it's like every single minute of the day is like 548 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,080 mapped out and I'm like, holy, it's like when you read 549 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,920 something you're like, Oh my God, like how did? 550 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,640 How do they know me? Like, you know, so it's like 551 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,480 universe. It's like just, it's just you 552 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,720 feel so seen. You're like, oh, it's universal. 553 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:34,040 It's not just me like this other person, yeah, has like so 554 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,360 perfectly elucidated the way that I feel. 555 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,760 Yeah, I don't like that quote. I'm glad that you it spoke to 556 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,480 you, but obviously like it. I just don't. 557 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,920 It's just so unhealthy in my mind. 558 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,080 I agree. To put a label, sorry to put a 559 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,400 label on it, but I'm just like, I in this day and age, like I 560 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,800 can see why that's a thing, but I like, don't like it at all. 561 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,360 Well, yeah, I'm not saying it's healthy. 562 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,680 I think it's just like, it's like a means of like coping I 563 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,760 guess, or something like that, but you're just like, oh, like 564 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,040 someone else is that way too. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. 565 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,200 She. Cut me off. 566 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,360 Don't like it? I think another really common 567 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,000 theme of immigrants and children of immigrants is just guilt, 568 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,000 right? Like we kind of like touched 569 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,280 upon it, but we didn't really put a label it's. 570 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,880 Such a powerful emotion. Yeah, and there's this really 571 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,720 amazing article that was in the Washington Post that was called. 572 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,240 But what will people say? And the author says how, As the 573 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,000 first in my family to be born in the West, I've always had to 574 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,120 navigate my feelings of guilt and have painful and difficult 575 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,560 conversations with my immigrant parents about the choices I am 576 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,800 making that are different from their expectations. 577 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,240 And the guilt can be because of constant adaptation between two 578 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,840 cultural influences, a phenomenon known as bicultural 579 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,520 straddling. That was also helpful for me 580 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,760 because I've never heard a phrase like being put to our 581 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,160 state of being. Yeah, I've heard of like 582 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,480 intersectionality, but I think that's like very broad 583 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,880 bicultural, bicultural straddling. 584 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:09,960 Bicultural. Straddling. 585 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,160 Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's what 586 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,320 I've experienced my entire life. Yeah. 587 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:19,840 It's like going to school like a mostly white neighborhood and, 588 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,400 you know, doing all the things in school, join all the clubs 589 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,040 and being like very American, like standardly American. 590 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,440 And then going home and like really enjoying like, I don't 591 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:30,880 know, fried rice. This is like kind of a dumb 592 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,440 explanation, but like. And she says. 593 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,400 Stinky tofu, she said. I had to go to school with 594 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,720 stinky tofu in my lunch box. Yeah, I don't know though. 595 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,080 But then she didn't. It's kind of like, that's just 596 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,280 like one dumb example, but it's very much bicultural straddling 597 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:48,880 or even just like another example. 598 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:54,640 It's just like my friends from school are friends with their 599 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,240 parents. And their parents friends. 600 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,520 And their parents friends. And they're not afraid of them, 601 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,280 right? They're like, not afraid to like 602 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,880 talk to them. Yeah, which, you know, like I 603 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,040 can understand like so, but like I would say in many like 604 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,000 immigrant households, it's just like a very much parent and 605 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,600 child and obedience dynamic. Yes, and not like a friendship. 606 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,400 It's like the literal definition of like in engineering when it's 607 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,360 like parent child relationships. Seriously. 608 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,520 One thing I've noticed now that I'm reflecting on it is that I'm 609 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,400 only 7 years older than you. But even in that like age gap, 610 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:38,000 like I see a lot of things where like for me, I feel like my path 611 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,520 that I chose was like much more by the book. 612 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,920 So for example, working in finance, even that was like a 613 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,400 little bit outside of the norm because like, that's not because 614 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,120 that's not like a line of work that is like the typical like 3 615 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,320 accepted, you know, jobs of being an engineer, a lawyer or a 616 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,240 doctor. So like even kind of like 617 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,320 explaining that a little bit to my mom and like being like, no, 618 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,760 I'm making the right choice. Like I under I know what I'm 619 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,080 doing. Like this is what I've learned 620 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:14,320 at school and this is a like very viable career path for me. 621 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,360 So like even doing that was a bit of a stretch. 622 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,880 Then then she was like fully bought in to like Goldman Sachs. 623 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,240 And then and then having the conversation be like, actually, 624 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,000 I'm leaving finance, I'm leaving Goldman Sachs, I'm leaving like 625 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,320 the the steady paycheck and the bonus behind. 626 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:33,760 And I'm going to be working at a company that is like barely a 627 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,440 public company that builds social mobile games. 628 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,600 It's just like you're gonna build like phone games. 629 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,720 Like that was like, again, I had to then do the labor of like 630 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,760 explaining all of that and like pushing against even just to 631 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,600 live your life kind of and to do these jobs. 632 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,520 But then, yeah, you on the other end. 633 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:59,240 But I also feel like before we dive into my context, at that 634 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,040 point, you were like 25. But I also feel like there's 635 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,560 this thing in immigrant families too, is that and especially 636 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,200 ours, because we're super small and very tight knit in that way, 637 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,680 is that like we feel a lot of responsibility to like explain 638 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,480 our decisions or potentially like over explain our decisions 639 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,480 when it's really our life. I feel like the very like 640 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,920 American, like independent, like mindset would be like I'm going 641 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,960 to be doing this, like I'm going to do it and you're not going to 642 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,400 stop me. That's like a very American way 643 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,240 of thinking. But because of this bicultural 644 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,800 straddling, we still and the guilt and also, you know, the 645 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,880 sacrifice that our families made, like we still feel a very 646 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:44,160 like large need to explain our decisions when in fact we were 647 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,080 adults then and adults now. But. 648 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,280 It's it's a very well studied phenomenon. 649 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,000 It's the idea of like coming from a culture that is more 650 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,600 communal oriented, like communal decision making versus 651 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,800 individualistic decision making. The USA is like the most the 652 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,920 individual, exactly the most individualist like. 653 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,320 Personal human rights, which probably shouldn't say that. 654 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,040 I shouldn't say that the US is the most individualistic. 655 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,360 Yeah, I definitely the most individualistic, the most 656 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,639 capitalistic, like for better or worse, I mean. 657 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,159 Yeah, which is where the bicultural straddling comes 658 00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,840 from. Yes, Yeah, because like you feel 659 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,280 like with your choices, like for my job, like it's not just a 660 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,000 choice for me, right. It's a choice that is like 661 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,960 paying, not paying back, but like it's a choice that everyone 662 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,480 needs to be bought in on because the only way you've gotten to 663 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,040 where you've gotten in life is because everybody has invested 664 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,639 so much. In Oh my God. 665 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,320 Is that true? That's a good way of like 666 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,000 explaining it, right? It is. 667 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,880 That's why you think, like, every single decision is so 668 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,880 imbued with like 100 years of like, people doing things for 669 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,640 you. That's so much pressure. 670 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:03,920 That's literally so much pressure. 671 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,960 I've never, I've never said that out loud. 672 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,240 I've never like yeah, said things I don't love said it that 673 00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:12,880 way, but but it is like it's verbalized hurricane. 674 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,080 I know, but it is kind of verbalizing. 675 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,040 Yeah, how I. Felt. 676 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,600 Yeah, and probably how you felt in some ways. 677 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,400 Yeah, although I feel it less so now as like an almost 30 year 678 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,640 old where I'm like you've raised me to make these decisions. 679 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,560 You as in our family phrase me to make these decisions. 680 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,360 And at some point, you have to trust me that you've raised me 681 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,800 in the right way to make the right decisions for myself. 682 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,240 I feel it less so now for a different reason. 683 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:44,960 I feel it less so now because I am financially independent. 684 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,760 And to quote Tinks, I like saw like a clip from her, one of her 685 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,960 podcasts, she said she called herself borderline wealthy. 686 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,520 I kind of like that I'm fully financially independent now. 687 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,160 And that's why I like I can like fund this investment period into 688 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,720 ourselves right where we're starting our own company, We're 689 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:08,120 bootstrapping it. We are funding everything on our 690 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,920 own. But that's the only reason why 691 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,320 is because I've gone through at this point 15 years. 692 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,640 I have 15 years of experience working in finance, working in 693 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:25,400 technology and like really optimizing for optimizing for 694 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,800 success and financial independence. 695 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,280 Do you want to talk about me or no? 696 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,320 Oh, about you, right. What? 697 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,880 The point I was going to make is that like right out of 698 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,680 undergrad, you worked for LinkedIn. 699 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,480 Yeah. But before then, don't, don't 700 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,600 forget, I very much wanted to be a doctor in college. 701 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,960 Like that was the more traditional route that I was 702 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,880 going. Since you had to slice the mice 703 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,040 brains. And then I worked at a 704 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,560 neuroscience research lab at Mount Sinai, and I was secluded 705 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,640 for many hours a day in a dark room imaging mice brains that I 706 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:56,960 sliced. Yeah. 707 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,760 And I was like, this research life is not for me, yeah, But I 708 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,640 was going to go down a very traditional yeah path. 709 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,240 I'm still obsessed with the fact that you had that internship. 710 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:10,440 Like she was like literally like 19 and she was like working at 711 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,520 Mount Sinai. I don't know. 712 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,160 There's just so many things I'm like, so proud of. 713 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:14,720 You cool? I love I'm. 714 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,440 So bad of you. Yeah, it was an amazing. 715 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,120 It's a it's a beautiful. Flats. 716 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,400 Yes I did. I wore jeans, skinny jeans and 717 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,080 flats. And and like a button up. 718 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,400 Shirt yeah, and AJ crew button up Yeah, I felt very adult. 719 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,800 Yeah, she was so professional. But I guess, yeah, I guess you 720 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,040 did do like a lot of you worked at Morgan Stanley in. 721 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:42,320 College too. Our mom recognized that name. 722 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,240 Yeah, I think on a LinkedIn was a bit of a stretch because it's 723 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:51,040 not like a Google or like a Meta, but I mean, it wasn't that 724 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,240 big of a stretch. I had studied computer science, 725 00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:58,120 so I think our mom felt very comfortable with that degree or 726 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,640 that type of degree so that I would be very employable. 727 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:04,760 Because it's basically adjacent to is computer engineering. 728 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,120 Yeah. So she's like, it's an 729 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,240 engineering degree. Yeah. 730 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:10,240 I feel like that's one of the things that Mom is still the 731 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:12,800 most proud of you for, really, that you're an engineer. 732 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,160 She brings it up all the time. Right, she does in the most. 733 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,240 Random like Cherie will do like one random. 734 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,560 I'll hang up a picture. Frame And our mom will be like, 735 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:24,800 it's because you're an engineer. She'll be like my little 736 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,640 engineer. I will. 737 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,120 I'll do something like like that's a little bit related that 738 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,680 actually not even like I'll do something like hardware related, 739 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,440 you know? Yeah, that's like kind of 740 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,400 technical. I'll fix the printer and she'll 741 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,120 be like, you're such an engineer. 742 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,400 I know and then when I fix the printer I get nothing. 743 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,400 I should be getting more credit because I'm not an engineer. 744 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,240 And you should take a self-taught. 745 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,520 Engineer. You should take that up with 746 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,440 her. So I think this was already a 747 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,800 very meaty episode where we kind of just like broke down, like 748 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,160 what it means to be the children of immigrants. 749 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,880 What are some of the like implications? 750 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,920 The mindset, the mental health, the guilt, the feelings behind 751 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,880 all we. Talk so much like I'm surprised 752 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,560 by how much I had to say. Really, I knew this was going to 753 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,160 be a good episode. I knew it was going to be tough. 754 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,720 Like this is not an easy thing to talk about. 755 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,640 So I do think this warrants a Part 2 because we do want to 756 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,760 dive into like obligations of being good daughter, eldest 757 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:25,880 daughter syndrome, syndrome and like what it really means to be 758 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,600 it like an immigrant, like an eldest immigrant child and then 759 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,840 maybe a young younger immigrant child. 760 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,440 And what are the dynamics there? Let us know if it's something 761 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,520 you guys want us to talk about or want us to see, because I 762 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,240 think this was already a very media episode and it deserves 763 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,160 its own episode. Yeah. 764 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,400 And I'm I'm ready to talk about those things if you guys are. 765 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,560 Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode of The 766 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,640 Tiger Sister. Thanks for being here. 767 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,000 I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say. 768 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,400 I really want it to be a dialogue with all of us, with 769 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,360 our community. Like, comment and subscribe, 770 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,480 especially this episode comment. I want to know what you're 771 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,600 thinking. And if you found this episode 772 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,280 helpful, we would really appreciate it if you can send it 773 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,480 to someone. Yeah, might like it. 774 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,800 Yeah, do it. And also rate US five stars. 775 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,400 Thumbs up, thumbs up. All right, see you next time. 776 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:21,440 Bye.