Welcome to the Season 2 premiere of The Tiger Sisters.
Yeah. We're back, baby.
We're back. We're so bad, we're so bad.
It's like we never even left. Hi I'm.
Jean. And I'm Sheree.
And we're the Tiger sisters. In this episode we are going to
be talking all about the dynamics and the obligations of
immigrant and 1st generation children.
So this might be a heavier episode, but like Children of
immigrants, we're looking at you.
This episode is for you guys, we hope.
You it's just not talked about that much.
So like that's why we thought it was important, even though
honestly, like it's a more difficult episode for the two of
us to do. Like I would love to hear this
dialogue from someone else, from other people.
Yeah, you know. So it's like, that's like kind
of how we decide our topics and how we're like, you know what,
this is not an easy thing to talk about.
But like, I wish I could hear other people who I consider to
be my peers or look up to and respect, like talk about this
topic and how it shaped them and like how they think about it.
That's what we're doing. Yeah, the discourse, at least to
our knowledge, does not yet exist in the way that we're
looking for it. So like we're creating it.
It's actually really difficult for us to do that, you know,
like emotionally and mentally. But I think it's a worthwhile
pursuit. Before we dive in, Please
remember to like, comment and subscribe.
Gene and I read every single comment that you guys leave in
our YouTube, so please let us know what questions you have.
Yes, we love Mailbag. Yes, we have a mailbag segment
where we read all the questions and comments you guys leave and
we incorporate them into our future episodes.
Yeah. And especially if you guys like
certain topics, we'll do AV 2 of that episode.
Like we've already gotten some questions about the friendships
and we've gotten questions about the friendships episode, so I'm
thinking we should do a follow up on that.
Yeah, and then and then also dating part.
Two. Yeah.
OK, so for our premiere episode, we are bringing back roses and
thorns finally. Oh my God, it's been too long.
OK, so Cherie, tell us about your roses and thorns.
OK, so it's actually like harkening back to one of our
first episodes. Guys, I think I know what she's
gonna say. Oh yeah, so my Rose.
I'm so back, baby. Oh my gosh, she is so popular.
OK, so guys, in the beginning of our season 1, I we had a rose
and thorn and one of my big thorns was that I was feeling
existentially lonely, like profound loneliness because I
had moved to a new city. And I no longer feel that way.
It's actually really nice because now I feel like I have
my social groove. I'm like meeting people for
dinner, for events and all this stuff.
And so like, I honestly feel the pendulum has swung the other.
Way she's so busy, she has dinners every single night of
the week. Like nobody does that in LA.
Like it's just not. It's just not.
It's really uncommon. It's not like it's.
Kind of like a flurry of like hanging out with people now.
And I'm really enjoying it. In fact, I need to like, slow
down and be like, oh wait, I definitely shouldn't book myself
like on Monday and Tuesday because I need a rest.
But yeah, I feel like my social battery is very, very full right
now. Yay.
And also, not to say I told you so, but I knew it would happen.
Yeah, somehow you knew it would happen.
You knew I would bounce back, although I knew I would bounce
back too. But like, in the moment, I was
just feeling like really sad. Yeah.
When you're in it, you're like. I know, like it's hard to.
Imagine like a time that you're not in.
Like I feel like my cups are very full now, like career wise,
like social wise and like all the different aspects.
I'm like, oh, like I finally feel like I'm settling in a
little bit, which leads to my thorn.
This is similar to how Jen Tran had someone in her life emerge
when she least expected it. Someone from my past has emerged
when I am. Dang, she's going there.
When I have not expected it at all.
And so while I've really felt very settled in my life here in
Lai was like a little bit nervous because like now I'm
kind of like dealing with something and I'm not going to
go into detail about it, but like someone in my past has come
up, you know, it's caused a lot of, I think like.
Consternation, consternation. Consternation.
Like, I don't know, like a lot of like emotions and like
flooding and a lot of like all this other stuff going on.
But I think throughout it like I like I was like, this is kind of
annoying that this is coming up similar to Gentran.
Like you don't expect it. Like Gentran on The
Bachelorette, you don't expect it.
But I'm also just like life goes on.
I have to deal with it like my life.
I can't put my life on pause like deal with this thing that's
come up from the past. So just like taking it in
stride, but like with all my other roses, I'm just like, this
is kind of I have comments. All right, What's your comment
so? I think one thing that I'm proud
of you that you did a good job of is that you like talked about
it with different trusted friends, including me.
And I just felt like when you gave me the feedback that your
friends gave you, I like was really able to see that they
were like very high quality friends kind of, and that
they're like really thoughtful. They're really thoughtful people
with good judgement. So like that actually what?
Because they said similar things that you said, yeah.
So yeah, I'm a thoughtful person with good judgement, especially
when it's like, not yourself, you know, like when, when
you're, it's yourself, like you can't.
You don't see it as clear. You can't, yeah, you can't like
see the the like scenery or like the landscape in the Chinese.
Yes, that. I guess that's the phrase sort
of. And it's also it's like you're
bored of trust Board of advisors situation.
I have a board of advisors to go to in terms of like, you know,
career, professional stuff, love life, like different friends for
different reasons and different like trusted advisors in that
way. So yeah, we're kind of, we're
moving past that. We're moving and grooving.
We're getting through it and yeah, we'll see how that goes.
Nice. OK, Jean, So what is your rose
and thorn? OK, my rose and thorn are
related. So it's kind of a little bit
similar to what you said. But basically my thorn is that
like over the last week, I was just really, really like heads
down and working a ton. And it was coming off of I had a
cold the week before so that I was like not really doing
anything and I had to cancel pretty much like a whole weekend
like weekend of plan. So I was kind of bummed about
that. And then right after that, I was
just like, working a ton the whole weekend, like barely to
catch up. Yeah, to catch up and like,
barely saw anyone. But like, I wanted to work too,
you know what I mean? Like, I wanted to, like, get
through all the stuff. And I was just like, really in
the zone. And I felt like I was like in
Sprint mode. But then I also was just feeling
like, I don't know, like a lot of my, it's like in the time
period where everyone's kind of like travelling to Europe and
like going to a lot of weddings. And like, that's the sort of
thing that I typically would have been doing and like was
doing pretty consistently, like when I was with my ex fiance.
And so like it was just like. It was just did you get FOMO?
Not even like FOMO really, but just kind of it's like when you
are like watching like a story where you're like, oh wait, like
that is like usually me. That's like the old me.
That's like what I would have been doing, but then I'm not
doing that anymore. I'm doing something totally
different, you know, like I just have like a very different life.
It's like you're watching like, like the alternate version of
like what your life would have been.
So like watching all my other friends, they're like doing all
these things that I usually would have been doing, but then
I'm, I'm not doing it. So yeah, I don't know.
It was just. It's not.
That's a little bit trippy. Yeah, it is.
Yeah. It's like, it's like watching a
scene or a movie of like, yeah, like how your life would have
been, but it's not now. I guess I'm still processing it.
So I just said the exact same thing.
Yeah, no, I feel that. I've never been there.
Before and that's zero advice for me guys.
I have no. Advice.
This is a one way street. I have no sad for me.
That just sounds really tough and I hope you get through it.
Yeah, no, it's not. It's not that like bad.
It's more just something you're noticing that I'm noticing.
Yeah, like, and it's just, I guess it's like a little bit sad
still. Like it's just like remnants of
like the life that never was world or more like the the life
that never will be. Yeah, yeah.
I guess with that specific person, although I feel like
that life is very possible with. Someone else as well that's.
True, it's not like that won't happen ever.
Yeah, that's true. It will happen just with someone
who is. A different person, yes.
To someone else, yeah. So.
Wow, who? Who said I didn't have advice?
That was pretty smart. Yeah, it was like, you know,
boilerplate, but that's not a compliment.
Boilerplate means like. Stand up.
I know a boilerplate. OK, but you're like acting.
She's like acting all like smug as if like that was like a
compliment. OK, so that was the thorn.
I guess. I didn't even really realize I
was going to like express it that way.
But the Rose is that. Now, on the flip side of all of
that, it's like all of these different like opportunities
have started coming up and Cherie and I have like a bunch
of conferences coming up, which I'm really excited about.
And I'm also like speaking at a conference.
That is like a pretty big deal to me, at least with.
Like, no, it's a big deal. It's a big deal, It's a big deal
deal. And I am so excited to brag
about Jean about this because I think we just generally have a
hard time bragging about ourselves.
But it is so cool. There's Jean's getting a lot of
different speaking opportunities where like companies are flying
her out, like very reputable companies flying her out, like
posting her up and she's going to be speaking on panels to like
investors and business people who look up to her and her
expertise. It's, it's a very, I'm really
excited because it's like a super qualified audience and
it's like people that run like between between them are
managing like probably like trillions of dollars, like
literally. So I'm just really excited about
that. And also I'm like looking back
now on like a couple of like really random speaking
opportunities that I just like said yes to and I like had no
idea what I was getting myself into.
And I just like did it. And now I'm like, oh, I'm so
glad I did that because then I had a chance to kind of like get
back into public speaking True in a more like low stakes way.
Even when you did one when you were very sick.
Oh my God. But you didn't know you.
She didn't really know she was that.
I know. You know.
If you know what I mean. So yeah, those are my rows and
thorn. So obviously we have mailbag,
mailbag, mailbag. I want to play the like blue.
School time. Yeah.
OK. So we actually once again, we
have received a lot of questions on the same sort of topic.
But generically they're all pretty much questions.
A lot of them are about how, asking about how we were raised
and asking about our childhood. And we've also received
questions about what would you do same or different for your
future children? So I think one of the reasons
why we've gotten this question so many times, like over and
over again in our Instagram videos and our YouTube videos is
because on, I think on the surface, people see something
and then they're like really curious to know like how it
became like on the surface, we are the Tiger sisters.
You know, in our intro video, you see all of the institutions,
the like industries behind our background and our
credentialing. And so people are just like, how
did you get this way? And I get that.
And I'm also people like your personality and like they see
that we're generally like well adjusted humans in society.
And so they're like, how were you raised by your parents?
And so while I understand that's a very like natural question,
Gene and I have honestly gone back and forth on like really
how to do this episode. It's a bit tough for us to
address. And I think we're really excited
to dive in here. But I think just some context
setting, it's not something we talk about often, honestly.
Like if you've watched me throughout the years on my
social media, like I don't really talk about my family.
Like now Jean has become such a big part of my Instagram and
social media, but like, I just usually don't go there.
And I've obviously never talked about it publicly because I've
never talked about anything publicly.
She's still beginning to talk about stuff, but you know, like,
you know, I've talked about so much stuff on my Instagram,
everything and I share about my life, but I don't really share
about this aspect. Usually I keep it quite private.
And so I think in sharing this, you get to learn more about us
in a deeper way. And you know, I think it's also
a process for me just quite honestly of like I'm also
learning to learning what it means to share this kind of
stuff as well. So thank you for being here with
us and thank you for understanding before we even
dive into the context, like where I'm coming from.
So setting some context, Jean and I are seven years apart.
We grew up in New York and I think First things first, we are
children of divorce. Our parents were divorced when I
was in middle school, and so Jean was in college.
But you know, we, we saw a lot of the pre divorce stuff before
then and I think the environment that we grew up, grew up in was
often times very chaotic. And that's probably very much
sugar coating it. And I think I'll just leave it
there. And I think throughout all of
that, like our parents are immigrants, adding that to the
equation. And I'm an immigrant.
And Gene's an immigrant. I moved to the US when I was 11
months old. I was born in Brooklyn,
Brooklyn, NY Forget about it. Forget about it, forget about
it. Forget about it.
And, you know, soon after then, like I moved to Long Island,
where Jean and I then ended up growing up and much of our
formative years ended up being on Long Island.
And I think Jean can also dive into a little bit more of her
experience moving as well a little bit later.
So just setting some context there like it.
Was. Oftentimes very tumultuous, but
I think coming out of it, like Jean and I are super close
because of I think a lot of the stuff that happened in our
childhood that was not very nice.
And I think throughout it all, like we grew up mainly I think
with like a very strong single mother or a person who had to be
very strong because of the situations that we were in.
And so a lot of our personality, I think, is derived from all the
shit that we saw and we did and how we had to adapt and honestly
survive in, you know, a child's context of like how to survive
through all of that. And so I think I'm just going to
leave it there. I think that's like already very
heavy. And I think if we feel
comfortable later on in this episode or future, we might dive
into it. We might not.
But that's just some context Setting is like, you know, how
people talk about having a chip on their shoulder was just like,
oh, I think this is a chip. And then some, you know, of us
trying to strive and then also making it work.
And if you are a child of immigrants, you know that
they're I'm talking to you guys right now.
Like, you know, that there's like so much that comes with it.
Like, you know, the family dynamic, you know, parents
coming to the United States with like nothing more than like $5
in their pockets. Like I've heard that story,
internalize that story, and it just like children of
immigrants, I think have a lot of pressure.
Yeah. And like the level of
expectations and I think in many, many cases a very common
story is that the parents give up what is, you know, often
times like a very stable. Life.
Perhaps, yeah, not just stable, but a lot of times, like
guaranteed to be upper middle class or even like wealthy lives
in their home country in order to come to this new, you know,
come to the United. States they sacrifice
opportunity, yeah. Yeah, and like, give opportunity
to, you know, their children. So this might be a heavier
episode, but like Children of immigrants, we're looking at
you. This episode is for you guys.
We hope you. It's just, it's not talked about
that much. So like, that's why we thought
it was important, even though like honestly, like it's a more
difficult episode for the two of us to do.
It's just I would love to hear this dialogue from someone else,
from other people. Yeah.
So that's kind of how we decide our topics and how we're like,
you know what, this is not an easy thing to talk about, but I
wish I could hear other people who I consider to be my peers or
look up to and respect talk about this topic and how it
shaped them and how they think about it.
So it's kind of what we're doing.
Yeah, the discourse, at least to our knowledge, does not yet
exist in the way that we're looking for it.
So like, we're creating it. And it's actually really
difficult for us to do that, you know, like emotionally and
mentally. But I think it's a worthwhile
pursuit. To kick off this episode, one
thing I found to be helpful when it's a more difficult topic for
me personally to talk about is find some other voices that have
already spoken about it. So I found this one article that
was written, the Duke Chronicle, and it's about basically
children of immigrants on Guilton Drive, and I'll just
read it. Susan Cheminor, class of 2027,
says when I study for a test, I'm not simply being a good
student. I'm making good on a promise.
A promise that I won't let the sacrifices of the people who
came before me go to waste. That's heavy.
That's like really heavy shit, right?
Yeah. It's like such a good
encapsulation of like every single thing, like the way that
you kind of walk through life as a child of immigrant, right?
It feels like everything you're doing is not just for you, but
it feels like it's for your parents, your grandparents,
great grandparents, your ancestors, you know, the history
of trauma that they went through.
Yeah, right. And at least.
We know the history of our family trauma, yeah.
And it's kind of, it's not that healthy, but like, I feel like
what's ingrained in you as a child is like your level of
trauma, like whatever it is is never going to compare, which is
true, right? Like we never had to be.
We've never been like, victims of war, right?
That's true. We've never had to contend with,
like, starvation, yeah, like, you know, droughts or
starvation. And this is just true across
like so many minority like friends that I've spoken to.
I don't really know what to do with that mindset.
I know because it is a hard way to go through life, like you
just put a lot of pressure. You put a lot of pressure on
yourself and you're like, I'm not going through war or
starvation. Like my life is fine.
But then I also don't think that's a really, like, feasible
way. Yeah, It's like when things
actually do matter, like. I know, like the unhealthy way
to think about it that I think I have in the past has been like,
oh, like I didn't have to deal with like starvation, war or
like, you know, child labor. And I still can't get into Yale.
Like that was like, that's like the most toxic way that
honestly, I did think of. That was like my way of thinking
for a long time. Well, I'm glad you moved past
that because I feel like for mental health reasons, like,
yeah, it's not best to have that mindset.
But like, I do hear where that's coming from.
Like just going back to this quote, it's just like, I mean,
also the generations before us, like people who are in their
like nineties, 80s, seventies, 60s, like they've had things
were not easy. I think they're still not easy
today. But like, for our like, great
grandparents, like, Oh my God. Yeah, I think there's also like
very much across all many immigrant cultures, this idea of
like hard work and sacrifice, sacrifice.
And like because so many of our predecessors, their achievements
are due to hard work. They kind of see that as like AI
don't know like Panacea or what's the, how do you pronounce
it Panacea, right. They see that as the sort of
like Panacea in some ways, or at the very least, like the basis
of everything, right. But also at the same time, hard
work is not, is not all you need.
And that's something that I feel like a lot of immigrant parents
like don't really, because they don't have that context of like
what it's like to like grow up and, and live and try to thrive
in like this new social structure, the new social
structure of being in a different country.
So like, it's not like you can't just like hammer your way and
like hard work your way through everything.
Yeah, I think a lot. Of things are out of your
control, honestly. I think it's a good starting
point. It's a good.
Starting point, but it's like, I feel like it's like ingrained in
you so much that, like, it eventually becomes a limiting
belief because you think that you can kind of do anything or
get anywhere with hard work. And you assume that the world is
a meritocracy in some ways because it is when you're in
school in a lot of ways. Right.
Yeah. Literally grades like tests.
Great. So interesting.
Yeah, it's because like it also I think in the IT depends on the
industry, but like a lot of industries are more regimented
that way where it is a meritocracy, for example, like
being a doctor for the most part, like getting into Med
school, like it's your grades that matter it.
Actually makes so much sense now.
Why like immigrant families push their daughters or push their
children to be doctors and lawyers?
Because literally like getting into a good law engineer all
goes, yeah, more engineers, but getting into a good law school
all comes down to your LSAT and your grades very much.
There's less like exogenous factors.
They're all for the most part, it's like more within your
control, like the harder that you study, yes, and the higher
the ground. That's within your.
Control, yeah. Whereas like such a good
correlation. It really is.
And like because that I think that's a lot what a lot of
immigrant families know to be true in their home countries and
in the US, if they can replicate that in these specific domains,
they can also see and find similar success.
Yeah. Versus like if you think about a
lot of the other industries, like even the ones that we've
been in, like finance, technology, media, like media, a
lot of it is not just about working hard, but it's about
having an edge, right? And having an edge comes through
information. How do you get information
interpersonal relations, right? It's not just like you can't
just hard your hard work your way to like information in those
industries. Something I would like to come
back to that I've been thinking about is the stories that we
tell. We were saying we've heard the
stories of, like, sacrifice about our great grandfather.
And like, those are the stories that are told from generation to
generation. It has a theme of sacrifice, of
loss, of hard work and duty. And those are the narratives
that I think are passed down in many immigrant families,
especially Asian ones. And I find that to be quite sad
because I haven't heard stories that are told about like, love
and laughter and fun times. And it makes me believe, maybe
incorrectly, maybe correctly, that those were not present in
our family ever. Like, maybe they did have a
laugh at the dinner table, but those?
Tough. Those are never the stories that
are told in our immigrant family, you know, dynamic it.
And I, I hate that, but like I, I don't really know what to do
with that. I would like to change it going
forward, but so much of the stories we tell ourselves and
that we here dictate how we feel about our family history.
I do think some of that is cultural because I feel like, I
don't know, it's like a spectrum, right?
Like, do your stories that you tell and pass down, like, do
they tend to be more positive or do they tend to be more like,
kind of like negative coded, you know?
Yeah. The thing is, like, you know, I
don't know. It's a story about resilience
and grit. So that's the positive side.
Exactly, That's what I was going to say, is that on the flip
side, it makes you, sorry I cut you off, but like, it makes you
work harder, right? Like, even though we haven't
gone through those hardships ourselves.
Yeah. Like hearing those stories like,
make us almost like act in a way as if we did.
Perhaps, but is it out of like internal positive motivation?
Or is it from this quote, the guilt and the duty that comes
out of it? Like what is the motivator?
Does it matter? I would say for our mental
health, it probably does. I think the distinction
probably. Matters.
Yeah, maybe. For the end result, it doesn't.
But then maybe without those stories, like we never, I mean,
I'm sure without those stories and that background and like
that sort of pressure that we had taken on, we never would
have pushed ourselves to do all the things that we do even like
now. Like, maybe like on the surface
it looks like we're just like making a podcast day-to-day, but
like, it's, we have a grind. No, it's not just a grind, but
like, we have like huge ambitions for this, like
massive. I'm just gonna put it out there.
Yeah, like, really big. Like, truly Walt Disney World
coming for you. No.
Truly though, like, we wanna, like, change the world with what
we're doing. It's kind of beautiful in that
way. Yeah.
Come, maybe come from a, a harder, rougher place, but I
think it's come into, it's grown into something beautiful, which
I really love. But then I, I think another
question is just like, if you don't grow up in these
circumstances, like do you have that same edge?
Yeah, I would love to know. Like this is where like I'm
going to ask you guys like please chime in, like please
comment like I want to know. Like, if you don't have that
chip on your shoulder in this way, yeah.
Do you need a different chip on your shoulder to, like, have?
I mean, sometimes, I mean, this is, I'll just put it out there.
Some people are like people who have everything handed to them
in life, like don't have enough drive.
And that's why as a parent, I'm not going to give my kids, you
know, Yeah. Like, but, you know, that's a
different chip on your shoulder that you won't be ever good
enough or you won't measure up. But like, yes.
And then you want to prove yourself that way.
Yeah, yeah, there's a discussion.
Please have the discussion in the comments because we would
love to hear your thoughts. Or like even if you, even if you
do like 100% identify with us or you're or you're like, Oh, well,
I agree with like this part that you're saying, but not this
part. Like I want to, I want to know,
like I want to be a dialogue. Yeah, I'm like genuinely
curious. I want to know what you guys
have to say and how you think. I feel like we should have
another person on this podcast who, I don't know, just like a
third voice. Yeah, I do think that's a good
idea. Like we could basically like
maybe have this same, we could like have this same
conversation, but having like a third perspective would be
really interesting. Like someone who's like outside
of our family basically. Yeah, totally.
I'll just share another quote that really stood out to me in
that same Duke Chronicle article.
And it it goes through the lens of immigrant guilt.
To be productive means to toil, to suffer, and to drown in
Google Calendar appointments. That one just like really hit
home for me because I'm like freaking obsessed with my Google
Calendar and it's like every single minute of the day is like
mapped out and I'm like, holy, it's like when you read
something you're like, Oh my God, like how did?
How do they know me? Like, you know, so it's like
universe. It's like just, it's just you
feel so seen. You're like, oh, it's universal.
It's not just me like this other person, yeah, has like so
perfectly elucidated the way that I feel.
Yeah, I don't like that quote. I'm glad that you it spoke to
you, but obviously like it. I just don't.
It's just so unhealthy in my mind.
I agree. To put a label, sorry to put a
label on it, but I'm just like, I in this day and age, like I
can see why that's a thing, but I like, don't like it at all.
Well, yeah, I'm not saying it's healthy.
I think it's just like, it's like a means of like coping I
guess, or something like that, but you're just like, oh, like
someone else is that way too. Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
She. Cut me off.
Don't like it? I think another really common
theme of immigrants and children of immigrants is just guilt,
right? Like we kind of like touched
upon it, but we didn't really put a label it's.
Such a powerful emotion. Yeah, and there's this really
amazing article that was in the Washington Post that was called.
But what will people say? And the author says how, As the
first in my family to be born in the West, I've always had to
navigate my feelings of guilt and have painful and difficult
conversations with my immigrant parents about the choices I am
making that are different from their expectations.
And the guilt can be because of constant adaptation between two
cultural influences, a phenomenon known as bicultural
straddling. That was also helpful for me
because I've never heard a phrase like being put to our
state of being. Yeah, I've heard of like
intersectionality, but I think that's like very broad
bicultural, bicultural straddling.
Bicultural. Straddling.
Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's what
I've experienced my entire life. Yeah.
It's like going to school like a mostly white neighborhood and,
you know, doing all the things in school, join all the clubs
and being like very American, like standardly American.
And then going home and like really enjoying like, I don't
know, fried rice. This is like kind of a dumb
explanation, but like. And she says.
Stinky tofu, she said. I had to go to school with
stinky tofu in my lunch box. Yeah, I don't know though.
But then she didn't. It's kind of like, that's just
like one dumb example, but it's very much bicultural straddling
or even just like another example.
It's just like my friends from school are friends with their
parents. And their parents friends.
And they're not afraid of them,
right? They're like, not afraid to like
talk to them. Yeah, which, you know, like I
can understand like so, but like I would say in many like
immigrant households, it's just like a very much parent and
child and obedience dynamic. Yes, and not like a friendship.
It's like the literal definition of like in engineering when it's
like parent child relationships. Seriously.
One thing I've noticed now that I'm reflecting on it is that I'm
only 7 years older than you. But even in that like age gap,
like I see a lot of things where like for me, I feel like my path
that I chose was like much more by the book.
So for example, working in finance, even that was like a
little bit outside of the norm because like, that's not because
that's not like a line of work that is like the typical like 3
accepted, you know, jobs of being an engineer, a lawyer or a
doctor. So like even kind of like
explaining that a little bit to my mom and like being like, no,
I'm making the right choice. Like I under I know what I'm
doing. Like this is what I've learned
at school and this is a like very viable career path for me.
So like even doing that was a bit of a stretch.
Then then she was like fully bought in to like Goldman Sachs.
And then and then having the conversation be like, actually,
I'm leaving finance, I'm leaving Goldman Sachs, I'm leaving like
the the steady paycheck and the bonus behind.
And I'm going to be working at a company that is like barely a
public company that builds social mobile games.
It's just like you're gonna build like phone games.
Like that was like, again, I had to then do the labor of like
explaining all of that and like pushing against even just to
live your life kind of and to do these jobs.
But then, yeah, you on the other end.
But I also feel like before we dive into my context, at that
point, you were like 25. But I also feel like there's
this thing in immigrant families too, is that and especially
ours, because we're super small and very tight knit in that way,
is that like we feel a lot of responsibility to like explain
our decisions or potentially like over explain our decisions
when it's really our life. I feel like the very like
American, like independent, like mindset would be like I'm going
to be doing this, like I'm going to do it and you're not going to
stop me. That's like a very American way
of thinking. But because of this bicultural
straddling, we still and the guilt and also, you know, the
sacrifice that our families made, like we still feel a very
like large need to explain our decisions when in fact we were
adults then and adults now. But.
It's it's a very well studied phenomenon.
It's the idea of like coming from a culture that is more
communal oriented, like communal decision making versus
individualistic decision making. The USA is like the most the
individual, exactly the most individualist like.
Personal human rights, which probably shouldn't say that.
I shouldn't say that the US is the most individualistic.
Yeah, I definitely the most individualistic, the most
capitalistic, like for better or worse, I mean.
Yeah, which is where the bicultural straddling comes
from. Yes, Yeah, because like you feel
like with your choices, like for my job, like it's not just a
choice for me, right. It's a choice that is like
paying, not paying back, but like it's a choice that everyone
needs to be bought in on because the only way you've gotten to
where you've gotten in life is because everybody has invested
so much. In Oh my God.
Is that true? That's a good way of like
explaining it, right? It is.
That's why you think, like, every single decision is so
imbued with like 100 years of like, people doing things for
you. That's so much pressure.
That's literally so much pressure.
I've never, I've never said that out loud.
I've never like yeah, said things I don't love said it that
way, but but it is like it's verbalized hurricane.
I know, but it is kind of verbalizing.
Yeah, how I. Felt.
Yeah, and probably how you felt in some ways.
Yeah, although I feel it less so now as like an almost 30 year
old where I'm like you've raised me to make these decisions.
You as in our family phrase me to make these decisions.
And at some point, you have to trust me that you've raised me
in the right way to make the right decisions for myself.
I feel it less so now for a different reason.
I feel it less so now because I am financially independent.
And to quote Tinks, I like saw like a clip from her, one of her
podcasts, she said she called herself borderline wealthy.
I kind of like that I'm fully financially independent now.
And that's why I like I can like fund this investment period into
ourselves right where we're starting our own company, We're
bootstrapping it. We are funding everything on our
own. But that's the only reason why
is because I've gone through at this point 15 years.
I have 15 years of experience working in finance, working in
technology and like really optimizing for optimizing for
success and financial independence.
Do you want to talk about me or no?
Oh, about you, right. What?
The point I was going to make is that like right out of
undergrad, you worked for LinkedIn.
Yeah. But before then, don't, don't
forget, I very much wanted to be a doctor in college.
Like that was the more traditional route that I was
going. Since you had to slice the mice
brains. And then I worked at a
neuroscience research lab at Mount Sinai, and I was secluded
for many hours a day in a dark room imaging mice brains that I
sliced. Yeah.
And I was like, this research life is not for me, yeah, But I
was going to go down a very traditional yeah path.
I'm still obsessed with the fact that you had that internship.
Like she was like literally like 19 and she was like working at
Mount Sinai. I don't know.
There's just so many things I'm like, so proud of.
You cool? I love I'm.
So bad of you. Yeah, it was an amazing.
It's a it's a beautiful. Flats.
Yes I did. I wore jeans, skinny jeans and
flats. And and like a button up.
Shirt yeah, and AJ crew button up Yeah, I felt very adult.
Yeah, she was so professional. But I guess, yeah, I guess you
did do like a lot of you worked at Morgan Stanley in.
College too. Our mom recognized that name.
Yeah, I think on a LinkedIn was a bit of a stretch because it's
not like a Google or like a Meta, but I mean, it wasn't that
big of a stretch. I had studied computer science,
so I think our mom felt very comfortable with that degree or
that type of degree so that I would be very employable.
Because it's basically adjacent to is computer engineering.
Yeah. So she's like, it's an
engineering degree. Yeah.
I feel like that's one of the things that Mom is still the
most proud of you for, really, that you're an engineer.
She brings it up all the time. Right, she does in the most.
Random like Cherie will do like one random.
I'll hang up a picture. Frame And our mom will be like,
it's because you're an engineer. She'll be like my little
engineer. I will.
I'll do something like like that's a little bit related that
actually not even like I'll do something like hardware related,
you know? Yeah, that's like kind of
technical. I'll fix the printer and she'll
be like, you're such an engineer.
I know and then when I fix the printer I get nothing.
I should be getting more credit because I'm not an engineer.
And you should take a self-taught.
Engineer. You should take that up with
her. So I think this was already a
very meaty episode where we kind of just like broke down, like
what it means to be the children of immigrants.
What are some of the like implications?
The mindset, the mental health, the guilt, the feelings behind
all we. Talk so much like I'm surprised
by how much I had to say. Really, I knew this was going to
be a good episode. I knew it was going to be tough.
Like this is not an easy thing to talk about.
So I do think this warrants a Part 2 because we do want to
dive into like obligations of being good daughter, eldest
daughter syndrome, syndrome and like what it really means to be
it like an immigrant, like an eldest immigrant child and then
maybe a young younger immigrant child.
And what are the dynamics there? Let us know if it's something
you guys want us to talk about or want us to see, because I
think this was already a very media episode and it deserves
its own episode. Yeah.
And I'm I'm ready to talk about those things if you guys are.
Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode of The
Tiger Sister. Thanks for being here.
I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say.
I really want it to be a dialogue with all of us, with
our community. Like, comment and subscribe,
especially this episode comment. I want to know what you're
thinking. And if you found this episode
helpful, we would really appreciate it if you can send it
to someone. Yeah, might like it.
Yeah, do it. And also rate US five stars.
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Bye.