Hi everyone, My name is Michelle.
I'm currently at TikTok. I work on special projects,
started my career actually mostly in investing.
I did private equity and then growth equity investing for
about over a decade. I'm 29 years old now.
What advice would you give to your 29 year old self?
We see a lot of people around you doing interesting things and
I was always like, how do I be part of all of that?
It was very good for having strong drive, but it really
wasn't good for mental health. You know, there's a lot of
anxiety right now, especially with, you know, just graduate
thinking and a lot of people are still job searching.
Life is very nonlinear. Good things happen to different
people at different time, different different stage in
their life. What is a failure that you are
most grateful for and what did you learn from it?
I felt like my life was shattering in front of me.
Today we interviewed Michelle Huang, who's head of special
projects at TikTok. Used to be an investor at
Blackstone and also worked in the office of the CEO at Lauro
Piano. Really just a Renaissance woman,
truly. She gets very personal with us
in this conversation and shares some of her life philosophies
that apply both to her personal and also professional.
Career. Yeah, this one really got me
thinking and reflecting. I'm Cherie and I'm Jean and
we're the Tiger sisters. This is season 3 of Tiger
Sisters where we interview CE OS founders, investors and business
leaders. We have the interview coming up
and right after that Gina and I do takeaways where we share some
of our learnings and the things that stood out to us the most,
kind of like a business case study.
We'll jump straight into the interview right after this
break. Hey guys, quick break to let you
know that we now have merch on sistersmatcha.com.
We have sweatshirts and T-shirts that we designed ourselves.
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So could you please introduce yourself for our audience?
Of course, so happy to be here. Hi, everyone.
My name is Michelle. I'm currently at TikTok working
on special projects. And Prior to joining TikTok
about four years ago, I started my career actually mostly in
investing. I did private equity and then
growth equity investing for about over a decade.
Sure, I'm 29 years old now. What advice would you give to
your 29 year old self? Well first of all, I'm very
obvious. I wish I were 29.
The one advice I'll give my 29 year old self would be just to
be more patient. I think when I was your age.
I also recently just graduated from Stanford Business School
then and I think I was just very anxious.
I think professionally, personally, just doing the next
thing, joining the next big thing, being part of the next
thing. It was and I it was very
anxious. I don't think I was grounded at
the time at all. And I, you see a lot of people
around you, you know, doing interesting things.
And I was always like, how do I be part of all of that?
And, and honestly just wasn't very good.
It was very good for having strong drive, but it really
wasn't good for mental health. And, and, and I think just over
time I realized, I think life is very non linear and just be
patient. Good things happen to good
people. If you keep doing whatever it is
that you like and it fits you like things, good things will
come. So and good things happen to
different people at different time, different different stage
in their life. And you'll have your own moment.
And who knows when it is, but you'll have it.
Thank you for saying that. That resonates very deeply.
I think me and then also my classmates, you know, there's a
lot of anxiety right now, especially with, you know, just
graduating and a lot of people are still job searching,
especially given the macro environment, macro economy.
And so yeah, definitely that anxiety and also like looking
around at peers is very much a thing when you're comparing
yourself to your class. I yeah, I think a few, the first
few years coming out of Business School, especially for me was
tough because I think that was when anxiety was at its highest.
And also 29 is also a year where everyone's turning 30, so.
So it's almost worse than being 30 exactly, but.
Once you realize, so that's why giving advice to 29 is very
interesting because once you pass that is that that anxiety,
that anticipation, that's actually the most painful.
But once you cross that, you're like, life is life goes on and
life is great. So and you just fully embrace
it. Actually, it's only the
beginning. Exactly, it really is.
And I really think life is so, so long.
And I, and I'm also saying this to myself because I am way more
than 29 now. So but I do think, you know,
people reinvent themselves all the time.
Like, I think really you see a lot of people who who really hit
their strides at just different times in life.
Yeah. So so be patient.
I love that. So the next question is kind of
a 180. It's about failure moments, yes,
but I do really like this framing.
So what is a failure that you are most grateful for, and what
did you learn from it? OK, I'm going to, I'm going to
say something that sounds really that is very personal, but also
sounds very, very cheesy. And I really sounds like first
world problem, but I will share it anyway.
So, so this is when I was 20. This is when I was 2625 years
old. So at the I'll, I'll just give
you, I just met you, but I'll give you the full background.
So I was dating my college boyfriend for a very long time.
He my, I had grew up in Boston at that point and he was going
to Harvard Medical School. The, my dream at the time when I
was 26 was I was going to go to Harvard Business School and
we're going to, you know, get married and live in white, pick
a fence house. So, so a couple things happened
that fall. One is we actually broke up.
So I felt like my life was life was shattering in front of me.
And two, I also didn't get into HBS.
So, so I think again, all of this really sounds like first
world problems at this point, but I think for 26 year old it
was a very thing too. It just meant like I, I thought
my life, the course of my life had to change at least.
But I think just learning a lot about resilience, right?
Just so you know, you, how do you bounce back from it?
How do you, you know, then change a course of life?
I think there was a lot that they just really believing and,
you know, like what's meant to be.
And I used to think, you know, there's a will, there's a way.
I think, I now think just embrace what's in front of you
and just keep going on the path that you're on.
Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that.
I think probably just like the hardest part is having like a
vision of what things might be like and trying your hardest to
make that work. But then the universe might have
different plans at the end of the day.
And and just embracing the universe.
Yeah, yeah. That's really beautiful.
And I think, I mean, I'm taking a lot of way, a lot away from
that, more than you realize. And I know a lot of people
watching this will as well. Yeah, well, thank.
You so thank you for sharing that.
The next question is around hot takes.
So what is a hot take that you have or belief that you have
that you know might be a little bit more contrarian either about
your work, your industry or any hot take you out?
I really do believe in like good things happen to good people.
I think. I think also just kind of tying
a lot of things together, right. But you really have to look at
it in the long run. I think maybe in the short run,
you know, cutting a few corners here and there or you know,
saying things, doing some things in a certain way can be really
beneficial. But if you really look at it in
the long run, like you just really good things happen to the
people. So like just really keeping that
longer term mentality. A few more questions.
This one's more fun, so this one's about travel.
What is a travel recommendation that you have?
Either a city or a place that you like to go to when you're
taking a break from work. So I'll give you my most recent
travel tip. So I was in, I was in Sandinavia
for the first time this summer. So it was also.
Because it was so. Hot in New York, so I need to go
somewhere cooler. Plus people always say
Scandinavians are the happiest people in the world, so I need
to check it out for myself why they're so happy.
So it was lovely. I spent two weeks across
Stockholm and Copenhagen, and I also discovered the the secret
happiness. And which is?
Can't share, which is I guess hot take there is the reason why
the the Scandis are so happy apparently after talking to a
bunch of them, is they have low expectations.
So when it's because the winters are so long and when there's
first sight of spring, they get so happy when the and because
they're so the summer days are so they're so few of them.
So when it's a sunny day, people are so happy.
So they really treasure a lot of these things and, and plus it's
a very, very peaceful society and just very happy people.
Also, Scandinavia during the summer is just so gorgeous.
The vibes are. Great.
Yeah, the vibes are it's Midsummer.
The vibes are top notch. So the next question is around
your first job. So what was your first?
What was your first job and how did it shape your work ethic?
And this could be, you know, your first job as a kid or your
first job out of school. Yeah, so my first job.
So I did, maybe I'll give you my, my first two jobs.
So I did consulting right after college for about a little bit
under a year. And then I did private equity.
So I was in New York 1st and then I moved to Hong Kong.
In terms of how it shaped my you said.
Work ethic. Yeah, I think a lot of it was
actually just like working really hard.
Yeah, I, I think one of the thing was, I think 1 is in
consulting because everything was new.
So it felt like, for me, it really felt like I got paid to
just learn a lot. So I did have that intellectual
curiosity. So it felt like, yes, it was a
lot of work, but also just felt like playground because
everything was new. So I had a lot of drive to just
learn new things and then and then in my next job in private
equity, it was a brand, brand, brand new industry and I really
didn't have any prior experience in it.
A lot of my cohort who came in actually had more finance
background. So again, a lot of how it shaped
me really just thrown into a new environment and really learning
new things and just giving yourself the confidence that you
can't pick up things. Growth mindset and and very much
like a willingness and a desire to learn and grow and do that
over again. Yes, yes, yes.
You can always like pick up new skills reinventing your results
so. I love that.
So the last question for you is around Conference 2024.
So what do you hope to get out of conference or what are you
looking forward to? And what is the most valuable
part of Conference 2024? I think what conference, at
least for me is it does a really good job bringing together
people from really different walks of lights because there's
a certain conferences, conference with AC that you
know, focus on whether you know, a subgroup like whether there is
a certain investors or entrepreneurs or healthcare.
Yeah, so the industry. But I think this one almost
feels like there's no particular agenda in terms of what they're
trying to do, but just really bring together a a group of very
interesting people and you let you let people form these
connections organically and like a lot of good things happen.
That's well said, very well put. I feel like the the talks that
we've had and the conversations you just have over dinner, very
organic and people that I normally wouldn't talk to.
It's different when it's like industry focused.
This is 1 purely on tech or AI, but so many different people are
coming and I think there's the most learning there.
Yeah, yeah, Very cool. Awesome.
So that's it. Oh well, thank you.
Yeah, what a great conversation with Michelle.
Yeah, I loved watching you do the conversation while you were
filming it. It was really, it was really fun
to, like, listen to it back too, yeah.
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So the first thing that I noticed in the conversation with
Michelle is how in tune she is with herself.
And I think of the guest that we've had on the season of Tiger
Sisters. She's like very emotionally
aware of how she feels in each and every situation, whether
it's personal or professional. I think one of the main
conversation topics that really stood out to me was when she
shared a really personal anecdote of when she and her
boyfriend at the time broke up. And it really changed the
trajectory of where she thought she wanted to go because she had
a grand plan for her career, and this was kind of part of that
grand plan. Yeah, she thought she was going
to be an HBS girly, so then she ended up being a Stanford GSB
girly instead. Which is also OK.
Which is, it's good too, you know.
It's a good. School too.
It's also a good. School, I mean, I didn't really
expect her to go that deep and she's honestly like, we just met
a few minutes ago, but I will go there and I really appreciated
that because it shows like a little bit more about like what
she cared about and honestly a very vulnerable moment.
Yeah, I think it's also, I don't know, I thought it was very
noticeable to me that she was one of the few people that
actually brought in her personal life into the conversation in a
way that wasn't related to like, her career directly at all.
But she was like, this is something that had a major
effect on me and my life and therefore my career.
Like, it's, you know, because life is not that cut and dry.
You can't just separate your life life from your career life,
your work life. It's all intertwined, actually.
That's kind of what our podcast is all about, yeah.
Like hey. It's like your work life and
your personal life, especially if you're someone who is, you
know, a go getter and like your work life and your personal life
are kind of mixed. Like it's on your mind as much
as you try to separate it. And Michelle and I think we are
those people who kind of have it intertwined.
And if you are too, it's just it goes to show how they're kind of
related. And there's always trade-offs.
And I so relate to her plan because even when she said it
out loud to us, I was like, wow, that's a perfect plan.
Because she was saying how her boyfriend at the time was going
to Harvard Medical School or was accepted Harvard Medical School.
And so she was like, oh, it would be perfect for me to then
at the same time go to Harvard Business School.
So then we can move to Boston together and then we can have
this like, you know, beautiful, like student life together.
And like, well, I was like, wow, that does sound too great.
I saw I saw that life for her as well.
But then she was like, yeah, then I didn't get into Harvard
Business School and I broke up with my boyfriend.
And so I could just, I, I relate to like the younger version of
her so much because that's just very, very unmooring.
And I feel like that's also kind of what happened to me recently.
You know, it's like two huge things happened to me in 2024,
which is that one, I left my corporate job of seven years at
Snapchat and left corporate life overall, which is the only thing
I've ever known really aside from student life.
And then two, I ended my engagement of a relationship of
eight years. So like both of those are I
wouldn't even say equally. I think the personal one is even
bigger. I don't know but it.
Is bigger I think. Yeah, but like it's just very
unmooring because then you're like, who am I?
You know, because so much of your identity is tied up in like
1 your career. If you're like a very career
oriented, ambitious person. And then also so much of your
identity is built up with your partner, like so many of your
like friend groups and the way that people, a lot of people
over the last eight years, like when they met me, they only ever
knew me as a partnered person. Right, like.
In context with this one other person.
So you're just like, who am I? Like I'm not head of product.
It's not but anymore I'm not, you know, Gene an ex person
anymore. It's just.
Who watches my stories? Sometimes I think that's why.
I don't know why. Like I see this person, I read
my IG stories and I was like, what are you do?
I'm like, Ariana, what are you doing here?
Like you shouldn't be watching my stories anymore.
But yeah, I'm like, who am I? Yeah.
I mean, I think it's real. It's like, so it's a
untethering, untethered feeling. You know, as Michelle was
saying, it's like when you have a vision for career or personal
life, or like the way that it's tied, like not having that
anymore is a strange feeling. Yeah, and I also really like the
other thing she said, which is that different things happen for
different people at different times.
Different good things, different bad things, just different
things happen in different periods of your life.
Just because it didn't happen for you at a certain point in
your life the same time as your friends, doesn't mean it's not
going to happen, and it doesn't mean that you know the timeline
that you're on is not what is best for you.
Sorry for all the double negatives, but I think you get
my meaning. I got it.
No, it's clicking for me. Yeah, and, and can I just, I
want to quote her specifically, she said.
I really think life is so, so long.
People reinvent themselves all the time now.
You see a lot of people who hit their strides at different times
in life, and I really love that. And it made me think about my
own past where, you know, we're doing Sisters worldwide now,
we're doing Sisters Macho, we're doing Tiger Sisters.
We have our own startup. And what I don't talk about a
lot is that this is not my first startup.
This is actually my second startup.
This ain't her first rodeo. This ain't my first rodeo.
I've fallen off the horse before, but yeah, I actually had
my own startup back in 20, 16 that I ran for a year.
We had customers, I worked on it full time, I had an entire team
and it failed. I shut it down after about a
year because I was like, this is not on the path that I want it
to be and it's not what I'm going to do after Business
School. So like I had set up parameters
to try to make the experiment or to try to make it as safe as
possible for me to fail, but regardless I failed.
So this is actually my like second go at having a startup
and. Things are different this time.
Yeah, you got me. I got my bud right here.
And it is. Things are different though.
That actually is the main difference, but.
Wait, that things are different or me?
Well, you. Duh.
Well, also things are different that you also have like 7 years
of operating experience in a different product role, a much
more like highly visible. Product role, totally And like
in that period between then and now, like I've done like $100
million deals like I've done I've run major teams like I've
built up entire business units and I had never done that when I
started my first company. It kind of is like what Vu was
saying. Yeah, Vu was saying that he he
did Y Combinator twice. The first time he he was 18 and
19, and the second time he was 2223.
And he was like, those two times were a world of difference
because we were like, oh, what happened with your first
company? He was like, I was 18.
It failed. We'll link the conversation with
you. It was an earlier podcast.
Great conversation. We'll link it here if you guys
are interested in listening to that.
Yeah. But yeah, I think it just goes
to show, just because you fail at something one time doesn't
mean that you're not destined to do it.
Yeah. And it also, I think it's really
powerful too, because then you have to have a perspective of
like, wanting to get back on the horse.
Like going with this analogy, not your first rodeo, you fell
off the horse. You want to get back on the
horse and like, try it again. It's like a persistence, great
resilience mindset. Yeah, also, I love horses.
I don't know if it was because it was me talking to Michelle
and like we were just like bouncing off one another.
Like the vibes were totally there.
And like how we talk to one another and like it seems like
we both like subscribe to kind of what you were saying, like
what will happen happens and timing.
And like, I think I don't even know if she said it or I said
it, but I was just like, oh, it's like what the universe has
planned for you. So like, if the conversation
like went there and I'm like really glad that it did because
often like I really believe in like what will happen will
happen, like karma and all this stuff.
And I've talked to a few leaders about this, but like, people
don't publicly really talk about it, you know?
Well, there's the idea of like a higher power, yeah.
Or Destiny. Yeah, one of the associations
that I had was like, what is the formula for happiness?
And like I like somewhere like where people like happiness
equals like expectations minus reality and how big that delta
is. And so I thought that was, it
was just like a really interesting, like a another
association that I have. Yeah, well, so she actually
brought that up when we asked her about her favorite travel
recommendation, and she said it was like Scandinavia, right?
And they were happy because they had lower expectations or like
something. With like the weather or like
weather like, you know. What I'm saying that it's like
dark there most of the year and so when they do have a sunny
day, they're so happy for it, but because they expect a gloomy
day or like a day without sun most of the time that they like
so much more appreciate the sunny days.
Yeah, which is really powerful. I like that a lot.
It's like an analogy of itself in and of itself.
Yes, yes. And so, yeah, happiness equals
reality minus expectation. And how big that or small that
delta? Is yeah.
So if you have. Expectations are lower and
reality is there. You're very happy.
I think it's also back to what she was saying earlier.
It's also an element of letting go of certain dreams or paths
that you had seen yourself on when they are not your path.
Or doesn't pan out. Yeah, when it doesn't pan out,
like if not some, if something isn't meant for you, then being
able to like let go of that so that you can receive, so that
you can receive like the future blessings and the future
opportunities and like have your eyes open to that as opposed to
still being fixated on like what didn't happen for you.
Well, you know, there's a Helen Keller quote that that talks to
the. No dude, she's just.
I got, I got quotes up here, Quotes.
No, it's perfect. Is it Archduke Ferdinand?
No, it's not Archduke Ferdinand. It's a Helen Keller quote where
she goes when one door closes, another window of opportunity
opens, but you have to be searching for the other window
of opportunity rather than looking at the closed door.
Yeah, I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically, yeah, the
Helen color. Did she really say that or is it
one of those things that are like attributed to Mark Twain,
the Dalai Lama, The Dalai Lama said Mark.
Twain said. Keller said Albert.
Einstein said no, I think she, I think she said it.
Did you do a report on Helen Keller once or was that me?
I learned about Helen Keller. We watched the movie in like
third grade. She was a big part of our
curriculum on Long Island. I don't know.
Why she was? She was.
We were heavy on Helen Keller.
She's inspiring. And also the three O3 song.
Move your hips. Shush girl, shut your lips to
the Helen Kellen and talk with your hips.
That said, girls, no. Anyone I know?
That's all. What is the hand signal?
I'm not. I'm not even going to try for
3:03, but that was also my 7th grade.
OK, no, So yeah, it's it's in you, it's relative, yes.
The other thing that Michelle talked about that I loved is
that she said how her first job, what it ultimately gave her is
the confidence that you can pick things up or her first couple
jobs. Because she said first she did
consulting and after that she moved into PE where she was kind
of like a peg below everyone because she hadn't done finance
before getting into PE. So she was like everyone else
was really practiced and making all these models and then
basically done the job before or a version of the job.
And she was like automatically behind on 1st day she started.
But she was like, what that did was it gave me the confidence to
know that I can do, I can learn anything.
I think that's like such a powerful mindset for I don't
know, like any like any young person is that you can pick
things up, you can learn them. And like, if you stop learning
and like growing, then like that's kind of like the death to
like, I don't know your curiosity, the death.
Knell, what's that? It's like the the blow, the
death, the blow of death. Oh, final pass.
I don't know. I mean, also something that we
didn't really mention in the interview is that like how many
experiences Michelle has had that like shape who she is?
She is so accomplished. Yeah, and and.
Humble and humble. Because, like, she doesn't even
talk about it. So, like, you wouldn't even
know. But like, I just kind of want to
read off, like, all the varied experiences that she's had.
Like, Jean says she used to work in consulting private equity at
Blackstone. She worked in the office, so the
CEO of Lauro Piana, which I feel like we need another
conversation with her because like.
You know, I want to know about that.
We didn't. Even get to talk about it like
that's so sick. Yeah.
And does she still get discounts?
Just kidding, I don't know if they do discounts, but yeah.
She also most recently works at TikTok in the special projects
office, which is just so cool. And you can see from these,
like, different experiences, like how she grows and learns on
the job. Yeah.
So she's head of special projects, which from what I know
is an extremely important and highly influential role.
That's like shaping the strategy and.
Direction. Yeah, the direction of TikTok.
She's so cool. Michelle is also a GSP grad, so
like off screen. And then also the after the
interview, like a bunch of us went out to dinner together and
you can't really see town screen.
But like, we were talking to her and also other people who are
GSP grads. And it's just like a really.
It reminded me like the network of GSP is far larger than I had
thought because like, I have my classmates, but then it's like,
so fun connecting with alums too.
Yeah. Especially like at these
conferences where like, we don't, I don't know anyone.
I don't have anything in common with them, but then like this
thing just comes up that I'm like, oh, I recently graduated
GSP. They're like, oh, I went to GSP.
It's just like so topical, especially because I just since
graduated. And we also have another
interview coming up with John Redgrave, who is another
Stanford GSP graduate. The familiarity and the like.
Inside jokes like are. Totally a thing.
We have that at Harvard, but we have that at Stanford, and so I
do. Think it's really cool they have
like these like classes that everyone like everyone takes
about and like it is very, it is very cute.
It's giving, it's giving Dartmouth vibes.
OK, she has another reference to an Ivy League that she has to
bring up. Oh my.
God, bro, but that's what it reminds me of.
It does like everyone has like really strong associate really
strong positive associations with it.
So like it's like if you meet another Dartmouth person, then
you have to like talk about the fact that you're from Dartmouth
together and like you just have like word vomit.
You can't stop yourself. It's like a compulsion so that I
feel like you guys are the same at the Stanford.
It's like a compulsion. You have to.
I. Think I mean it it it does speak
to the power of the culture that we've built with the strength
so. Small.
Yeah, that like it. It feels very familial.
Yeah, yeah, you're just like naturally.
Obsessed. Yeah, naturally obsessed.
And then the one thing I wanted to close on was just a quote
that Michelle said that I really liked.
And I just want to leave it there for everyone to kind of
sit with at the end. And she said, how do you change
the course of your life? Embrace what's in front of you.
I love that I will be journaling that and they love that for the
next days. Thank you.
Yeah, she just had like. Wisdom.
She had wisdom, she had bangers, and she was just saying them
casually. I was like, wow, she's really
thoughtful. She's really something, yes.
Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for
tuning into this episode of Tiger Sisters.
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