1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,400 As you get older, time seems to move faster, so it's like if I'm 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,600 going to do this, now is the time. 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,280 You have been podcasting since podcasts have existed. 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,360 After 20 years of working for big companies in podcasts, why 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,080 can't I be the person that value goes? 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,280 And from one day to the next, you're kind of doing it all by 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,000 yourself. And that's both empowering and 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,760 frightening. What do I want to do next? 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,480 And does that line up with what people want from me, The number 10 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:40,920 one that I continue to learn? You're the first Orbit community 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,720 member to be on the show, and I'm super excited to dig into 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,080 your story. Well, I'm super grateful to be 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,200 invited and to be able to talk to the audience here and, you 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,800 know, represent the Orbit community because it's been 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,600 actually, it's been pretty awesome. 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,280 I need a community that can help me be accountable to people 17 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:59,960 other than myself. Because it's a solar creator. 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,240 Sometimes that accountability is really hard to find, yeah. 19 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,519 Our first conversation pretty much started off right away with 20 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:10,520 the fact that you have been podcasting since podcasts have 21 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,440 existed and kind of in large media organizations as a tech 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:21,120 journalist and quite recently you have been laid off and 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,040 decided to go on your own as a YouTube. 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,000 Take me back to the day where you got laid off. 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,480 What was on your mind? How did you make that decision 26 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,600 to become a YouTube? After 20 years of working for 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,480 big companies in podcasting, building an audience, I'd seen 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,680 friends of mine in the industry, be it journalism, be a podcast, 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,040 media production, whatever. I'd seen them find success in 30 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,760 going independent and you know, there was always that little 31 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,400 voice in my head that was like, I have it you, you can pull that 32 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,560 off now. I mean, you could try, but that 33 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,360 would be embarrassing if you weren't able to stick the 34 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,360 landings, you know, whatever. And so I've been considering it 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,000 for about, I'd say probably about two or three years prior 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,760 to getting laid off. That, I guess tells you how fast 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:12,560 I am to act on on thoughts like that, but I kind of had a sense 38 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:17,400 that change was in the air with my position at twit leading up 39 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,000 to the layoff. As luck would have it, I had 40 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:27,120 decided that I was gonna put in my notice and just make 2024 the 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,320 year that I try out being an independent content creator. 42 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,680 And my date on the calendar ended up being 2:00-ish weeks 43 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,320 later than the date that they actually ended up laying me off. 44 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,680 Wow. So from a timing perspective, it 45 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,600 kind of worked out kind of perfectly, right? 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,640 Like in my mind, I was like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to 47 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:48,680 quit and we're just going to dive off the deep end and see 48 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,560 what happens. And instead I got laid off, 49 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,880 which carried with it, you know, the the nice benefit of getting 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,760 a severance. So that was wonderful. 51 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,000 And in hindsight, in retrospect, I look back now and last year 52 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:00,960 and I don't know how I could have pulled it off. 53 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,600 I didn't have that severance. Yeah. 54 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,160 So it was really on my mind. But, you know, there was always 55 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,480 that doubt of like, am I going to be able to do this? 56 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,440 Can I pull it off? I, you know, I know a lot of 57 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,120 people who have have done that and they have excellent numbers 58 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,800 on their channels and they're growing constantly and 59 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,960 everything. And, you know, I just wasn't 60 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,280 entirely certain that like I could, I could launch like that. 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,160 And it's been, it's been a slow process, I have to admit. 62 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,320 First of all, this is such a fascinating, you know, 63 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,880 coincidence where like you wanted to quit, then they let 64 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,520 you go and it's just like it pushes you in a certain 65 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,920 direction, right? So for she always hear these 66 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,840 kind of stories, but what were the first couple of steps, you 67 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,520 know, after starting over? How did you make this work in 68 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,560 the beginning? I mean, in the, in the very, 69 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:51,440 very beginning, I, I had never in my adult career taken some 70 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,600 time off. You know, it's like I got done 71 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,480 with school, went right into working at CNET and I had been a 72 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,200 full time worker for 20 years. So I was like, you know, these 73 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,000 these moments don't come very often or hopefully they don't 74 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,600 come very often where I can just kind of take my foot off the gas 75 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,080 and give myself a little bit of a breather and kind of kind of 76 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,240 wait and see. Like I had done an Android 77 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,920 podcast at Twit that was one of their more successful podcasts 78 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:18,760 for a number of years called All About Android. 79 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,160 And they had ended up canceling All About Android about a year 80 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,040 before I got laid off. But my friends from the podcast 81 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,480 had launched it independently for a podcast now called Android 82 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,680 Faithful. So the immediate thing when I 83 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,080 was done was, well, I know I'm joining them on Android 84 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,480 Faithful. And that happened almost right 85 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,400 away. I think the, the very next week 86 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,240 I was on Android Faithful going forward. 87 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:46,000 That was kind of my only my only like bit of I know I'm doing 88 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,920 this and I'm going to make at least a little bit of money in 89 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,880 the process because right then it LED right into the holiday, 90 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,960 right into the Christmas holiday in New Year's. 91 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,520 And so I kind of allowed the proximity to Christmas and New 92 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,160 Year's to be kind of a forced recalibration. 93 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,120 Like, all right, let's just like accept the fact that right 94 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,800 before Christmas is probably a horrible time to announce any 95 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,240 big new project. So I'm just going to wait until 96 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,880 I get on the other side of New Year's and that'll give me some 97 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,320 time to kind of contemplate and figure out what I want to do. 98 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,280 I knew I wanted to launch a YouTube channel. 99 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,120 I knew I wanted to launch an AI podcast with my friend Jeff 100 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,360 Jarvis called AI Inside. That came a few months later. 101 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,240 But it was really, it was really strategizing and just like 102 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,160 being, you know, looking at the options of which there were many 103 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,280 directions I could go. But it's like, what? 104 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,560 What do I want to fill my time with? 105 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,760 Because now suddenly it's entirely up to me. 106 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,480 And that's both empowering and frightening. 107 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,160 And, and I didn't have anyone anymore saying this is what we 108 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,160 want you to do next. It was like, well, what do I 109 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,200 want to do next? And, and, and I think this is a 110 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,240 big kind of caveat to that. What do I want to do next? 111 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,000 And does that line up with what people want from me, you know, 112 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,000 or people expect from me? Because I did have a 20 year 113 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,640 career of people who have followed me over the years doing 114 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,520 the different shows that I've done. 115 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,680 And, you know, it's really it, it was about like, and I also 116 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,520 need to make money. I need to like a career requires 117 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,680 me making a living for my family, you know, And so it was 118 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,800 a challenge. And I'd say by and large, 2024 119 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,400 was a, you know, as far as like making money for the bottom 120 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,200 line, It was a, it was a pretty empty year for the most part, 121 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,760 but it really started with just kind of getting creative and, 122 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,360 and really getting serious with myself as far as like, what do 123 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,480 I, what I really want to spend my time doing? 124 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,440 I don't want to lock myself into something that a year or two 125 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,360 down the line is is moving. And I hate it because I'm like, 126 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,920 why am I doing that? Like I didn't enjoy doing that 127 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,960 before, but I did it this time because it's what people expect 128 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,920 from me. And now I'm miserable. 129 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,480 I really didn't want to do that. The. 130 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,280 What do people expect from me? That is such an important 131 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:04,720 question, especially like in your situation, I think it could 132 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,520 have been very reasonable to just find a different job at a 133 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,160 different news outlet, right? Was that not an option for you? 134 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,360 Like why? Why did you already decide like, 135 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:15,800 I want to make a YouTube channel? 136 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,560 What was grabbing your attention in? 137 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:23,200 That I think it was the fact that, well, a my wife is an 138 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,960 independent businesswoman. You know, she's now, she's 139 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,920 started like 3 different businesses. 140 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,880 So I watch her model and how successful and how she 141 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,080 approaches that. And I look at that with just a 142 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,600 lot of awe in how, how no, I don't want to say easy because 143 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,640 she, it's not like it's easy for her. 144 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,520 And I know it's not easy for her, but she's able to think 145 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,440 through it. And in the end, at the end of 146 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,320 the day, own her thing. And I had always worked for 147 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,240 companies and you know, I think through my time at Twit, I 148 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,320 realized at a certain point, like I know how to create these 149 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,760 things that have value for someone else because I've done 150 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,280 it for 20 years and everything that I create has value for 151 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,160 them. And otherwise, like they'd be 152 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,040 letting me go or they'd be repositioning me to a different 153 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,160 role. It continues to bring value to 154 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,000 the company. It continues to earn that money. 155 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,600 Why can't I be the person that value goes towards? 156 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,440 And I think that was, that was always my, my thought. 157 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,800 Could I have gone into, you know, journalism and, or, or 158 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,360 gotten hired by another company and everything. 159 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,760 I, I'm sure, but I felt like this was kind of an opportunity 160 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,280 for me to try something that I had thought of for at least 161 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,400 three, 4-5 years in, in one way shape or form. 162 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,360 And I, and you know, I'm getting older. 163 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,680 I'm 49 right now and I, I don't, I feel like as I get older, my 164 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:52,320 opportunities to take risks like that start to diminish. 165 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,280 And as you get older, time seems to move faster. 166 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,320 And so it's like, if I'm gonna do this, now is the time because 167 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,040 later it's gonna be even more challenging. 168 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,560 And, and I also kind of thought about the fact that, like, if I 169 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:12,440 do this now and it's painful, time's still gonna go by and 170 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,400 it's gonna be two years later. And two years later, am I going 171 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,440 to be able to look back and say the last two years I've been 172 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,520 building my thing? Or am I going to be like, I took 173 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,600 that other job instead? And then now it's two years 174 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,240 later. And if I had done that, where 175 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,360 would I be? And I've done that a lot in my 176 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,560 life in, in my, you know, previous history. 177 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,280 I didn't want to do that again. And so I decided to take a 178 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,160 chance on myself. Ultimately, a friend said, 179 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,080 you're taking a bet on yourself. And that's exactly what it is. 180 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,040 And if you can't bet on yourself, who can you bet on? 181 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,880 Oh my gosh, that is that is a beautiful quote that's already 182 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,400 going to make it into short form clips. 183 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,160 I know it. It's true though. 184 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,360 It's true. You know, I think we, we look 185 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,560 for a lot of a lot or I, I can speak for myself in, in my 186 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,000 history in this industry, I've looked for a lot of external 187 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,840 kind of Pats on the back or reassurances that I'm doing the 188 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,400 right thing. This was really the first time 189 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,680 where I said, you know what, I have a gut feeling about this. 190 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,000 I'm gonna go ahead and take a chance on myself and see where 191 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,080 it leads. And if it doesn't work, like at 192 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,440 least I tried, at least I can look back and I can go, I did 193 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,560 that and I created those things. It didn't quite work the way it 194 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:26,720 did, but I learned an amazing amount in the process. 195 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,200 And who knows where that path leads from there. 196 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,480 You know, that leads in other directions that I wouldn't have 197 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,360 had if I hadn't tried it. So, you know, it was a little 198 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,040 bit of financial pain and, and continues to be a little bit of 199 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,560 financial pain, although things are better now, but, but I think 200 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:44,920 there's a lot of benefits, a lot of very tangible rewarding 201 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,360 benefits outside of just the monetary side of things. 202 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:52,000 It is so true that you learn so many skills building your own 203 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:57,240 little media outlet that even if it fails financially, there's 204 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,320 still so much to gain for that you can apply to to other areas, 205 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,080 right? Hey, real quick, if you're 206 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,480 enjoying this conversation, if you're learning something, if 207 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,200 you feel inspired, can you do me one simple favor? 208 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,360 And that is just to share this episode, Share it with people, 209 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,440 you know, share it on social media because the algorithm does 210 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,600 not care. But if you're still here, you 211 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,840 do. And the only way more people get 212 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,640 to see this type of content is if people like you talk about it 213 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,680 and share it. So that is the only ask I have 214 00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:34,840 for you. This content is completely free 215 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:36,600 and I'd love for you to enjoy it. 216 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,240 But yeah, if you want more of this, just share it. 217 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,760 And now let's go back to the show. 218 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,520 But So what are what are those things that are different or 219 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,880 similar between working with a team and now being your being 220 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,280 responsible for just yourself, right? 221 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,200 What are the the things that you didn't expect or what are the 222 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,280 things that were super familiar to you? 223 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,640 I mean, I can tell you right off the top, the, the, the number 224 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,680 one lesson that I continue to learn. 225 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,640 And maybe it, maybe it's not a lesson as much as it is in 226 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,280 appreciation. But you know, I worked for 20 227 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,640 years with two companies with incredible resources, with 228 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,200 wonderful staff, you know, really wonderful people and 229 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:21,720 friends who I worked closely with. 230 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,880 And the thing that I don't have now that I had then was the just 231 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,640 the sheer fact that there was a machinery around what I was 232 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,000 doing. And when I'm solo, I am the 233 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,920 person, you know, I'm the guy in my business. 234 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,280 And so I'm planning my content. I'm figuring out how I'm going 235 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,480 to record it. I'm writing, scripting, 236 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:50,080 researching, shooting, editing, publishing, social marketing, 237 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,720 you know, on top of everything else, you know, in the podcast 238 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,560 world or whatever. It's just, it's, it's all you 239 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,040 know together. You're the intern and the CEO at 240 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,320 the same time. Yeah, absolutely that. 241 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,760 And so I have a deep appreciation for the fact that, 242 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,320 you know, it at both of those previous places, I always had a 243 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,360 team that I could just, I could literally just write my script, 244 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,760 you know, tell someone I need time in the studio. 245 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,400 I need 20 minutes to record this. 246 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,760 I'd have someone, you know, behind the deck recording it and 247 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,480 doing video switching if needed, someone running a prompter if I 248 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,320 needed that. And then when I was done 249 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,120 recording, I kind of walked away. 250 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,840 And it was like then magically that, you know, it's not magic 251 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,400 at all. It ended up in someone else's 252 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,160 hands and then someone else's hands. 253 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,320 And they, they drove that to the finish line. 254 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,920 And I was then relieved to start focusing on the next thing that 255 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,560 I was gonna do and going independent. 256 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,760 Like, you know, I mean, especially in the beginning when 257 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,240 you're not making much money, you can't build up a team, you 258 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:50,840 know, quite yet. You can't support a team. 259 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,920 It's all on you. And what that really does is 260 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,480 that really impacts the amount of stuff that you can do. 261 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,960 You know, I have so many opportunities and so many ideas, 262 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,760 but I can't do them all because I just don't have the time. 263 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,640 And that that's disappointing to me. 264 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,160 I want to do them all. That is one of the biggest 265 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,800 challenges I face because I have no shortage of ideas of like, 266 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,280 oh, that would be cool. Oh, that sounds interesting. 267 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,960 But at the end of the day, you have to say no to a lot of 268 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,840 things if you want to build a successful channel just because 269 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,520 you have to focus on one thing and do that really well. 270 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,520 Otherwise, yeah, you, you you kind of get lost in the in the 271 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:37,520 new shiny object syndrome. Is there something that you were 272 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,880 taught as a, I'm just going to say, journalist in this machine 273 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,640 that you really felt very strongly about and that shift 274 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,720 that once you went independent? I think the thing that has 275 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,440 really stood out for me is the value of knowing how to market 276 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:01,040 what you do. And it's also the the element of 277 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,560 my professional career that I had probably the least 278 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,640 involvement with, you know, like almost everything else I had 279 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,160 somewhere along the line, some sort of involvement with it. 280 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,960 But when it comes to marketing, when it comes to choosing, these 281 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,640 are the clips that I think are gonna work. 282 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,720 These are the platforms that I'm gonna spread them to. 283 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,320 This is the text that I'm gonna attach to it to make sure that 284 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,040 the right keywords are there and you know that right hashtags and 285 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,560 I'm adding all the people and it's different in every place 286 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,520 because they all format things differently. 287 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,680 And then, you know, podcast swaps and, you know, podcast 288 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,560 appearances, booking appearances. 289 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,200 I mean, it's the marketing side of things is just something that 290 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,440 I was not really brought into the process on over the course 291 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,160 of 20 years. And the kind of disappointment 292 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,480 that I have around that is marketing is so important. 293 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,440 Like like I could launch my AI inside podcast as I did. 294 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,040 I think I launched it last February in 2024. 295 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,640 And immediately out of the gate, we had reasonable numbers for a, 296 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,520 for a new podcast to launch, right? 297 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,880 Because we had this built up fan base from Twit when we were kind 298 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,920 of kind of building the show and Twit gave me, by the way, 299 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,360 permission to take it and do my own show with it. 300 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,640 They were very gracious with that. 301 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,800 And when we launched, we had an immediate fan base, which is 302 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,840 amazing. And then over the course of the 303 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,360 next year, we just kind of continue doing our thing. 304 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,240 And I mean, the number just kind of stayed flat. 305 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,400 And that's just because like, I don't know how to market it. 306 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,120 How do I get more eyeballs and not just the baseline people who 307 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,640 already know who I am sort of audience. 308 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,440 And I think that's part of how why I see YouTube to being such 309 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,080 a, an important part of my strategy. 310 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,200 Because one thing I've noticed is YouTube does a really great 311 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,000 job if you play the YouTube game right, which I don't think 312 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,280 necessarily means you're, you're, you know, playing a 313 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,400 tricky game or trying to, you know, trend, trend Jack or 314 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,720 whatever they call the, the keywords or anything like that. 315 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,119 But there are ways in which you can approach YouTube to where at 316 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,880 least your, your video finds another audience or a secondary 317 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,760 audience that gets, you know, extra exposure. 318 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,280 And in podcast, I feel like that's a lot harder. 319 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,480 You kind of have to know someone at a, at a podcast network, like 320 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,359 like I, you know, Apple podcast or Spotify or whatever. 321 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,280 There's a lot of relationship things happening there that I, I 322 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,680 just was not Privy to. It's, it just wasn't part of my 323 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,040 job. And learning that has been a 324 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,160 real challenge. I wish I knew more about that. 325 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,560 I'm learning more about it. No, no doubt about it. 326 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,800 But it's still, it's also just not my favorite part of the job. 327 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,360 Like I would so much rather just create content versus have to 328 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:46,320 market it. Yeah, I mean, it's what you said 329 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,440 earlier. It's like hell, I can just sit 330 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,400 down, record for 20 minutes, half an hour, and then hand it 331 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,040 off to somebody else and magically a show comes out at 332 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,000 the end of it, right? That is. 333 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,440 Air quotes magically right? Because the people doing that 334 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,320 work are like, there's nothing magic about that, dude, I did 335 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,480 all that work. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. 336 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,040 But like it's, it's a very different environment, a 337 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,600 different mindset. Yeah, absolutely. 338 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,480 Yes, yeah. Yeah, 100% is. 339 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,480 What is Jason doing right now in like a regular week? 340 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,240 So first of all, my biggest achievements this year is buying 341 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,640 a whiteboard calendar. And I'm not even kidding. 342 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,040 Amazing. I am so much more organized now 343 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:28,360 that I have a whiteboard calendar. 344 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,160 It's, it's kind of ridiculous how the analog approach is so 345 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,720 much better for me than any of the digital solutions I've used 346 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:38,640 on a regular weekly basis. I have 4 podcasts that I record 347 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,600 between Tuesday and Thursday. And then if I'm doing my Tech 348 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,000 Exploder podcast, which is really like a nostalgia show, 349 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,160 what that leaves me with is kind of Mondays and Fridays are the 350 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,360 open days and air quotes because they're never truly open. 351 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,360 It takes a lot of time. It really does. 352 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:59,000 To do it effectively, to do it to the point that it deserves 353 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,840 and that it requires, it takes a lot of time and sometimes I 354 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,360 don't give it enough time and I think it suffers because of 355 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,800 that. You open and so many doors that 356 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:12,280 I would love to explore. It's already amazing to see some 357 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,640 similarities like the whiteboard, the I. 358 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,960 I also keep Mondays and Fridays completely blocked off for 359 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,600 myself. More so and Fridays especially. 360 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,480 It's just like I write my newsletter and I'm done. 361 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,720 That is all I have to do on Friday to keep my sanity. 362 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,920 But in this almost year and a half that you've been doing it 363 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,800 by yourself, have there already been some kind of success 364 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,600 moments where you like that kind of kept you going, where you 365 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,120 say, okay, yeah, this makes sense. 366 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:44,880 There's I can see, I can see the light at the end of the tongue, 367 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,400 the kind of situation. One thing that I've realized is 368 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,040 that there are flash points in my production cycle that 369 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,600 suddenly happened that I recognize now. 370 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,840 I got to be, I got to have my ducks in a row to be prepared 371 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,600 for that. I know in the technology world 372 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,840 that I've frequent, you know, Google has its Google IO 373 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,080 conference every May and Google invites me to go every May. 374 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,040 And I know that when I go, there's going to be multiple 375 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,760 opportunities for me to do so. It's almost like their tent pole 376 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,920 opportunities, right? Earlier this year, Samsung 377 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,800 invited me to go to the Unpacked event and that was my first time 378 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,480 going to that. And I saw that as an 379 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,800 opportunity. Like what can I do around this 380 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,920 moment to really capitalize on the fact that like I'm there and 381 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,240 a lot of people don't get the opportunity to be there. 382 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,080 So how can I like bring them into it a little bit and show 383 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,200 them what it's like to be there? You know, as far as specific 384 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,280 moments, I mean, I'm kind of coming or kind of in the midst 385 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,440 of one right now. Because on AI Inside we had like 386 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,200 a world renowned AI expert, Yan Likun, who's the chief of AI at 387 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,440 Meta. Amazing. 388 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,840 And you know, if you go on YouTube and you search for Yan 389 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:58,200 Likun interviews, you'll see 200K500K like his his interviews 390 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,600 get a lot of attention, right? And I do it on my little AI show 391 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,760 and it's like, you know, 8090 a hundred. 392 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,160 I'm like baloney. Like there is no way that we 393 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,880 have Yan Likun on this podcast and this doesn't catch some 394 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,880 steam on YouTube if I'm doing my job the way I probably need to 395 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,400 do to play the YouTube game, right? 396 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,920 Another example of this was I was I was in Barcelona for 397 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,480 Mobile World Congress. Yeah, like a month ago or 398 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,320 whatever. And I was on day one of the, of 399 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,560 the show floor being open. And I have my, you know, my, my 400 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,320 little tripod with my Osmo pocket three that I've got 401 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,800 laying around here somewhere. And I went to this company's 402 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,840 booth called Techno and they were showing off this 403 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,960 ridiculously thin smartphone. And I just super quickly threw 404 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,760 together like 10, you know, little notes on a smartphone 405 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,840 mounted that next to the Osmo, plopped my Osmo down and 406 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,280 recorded a, a vertical like 52nd. 407 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,760 Like I'm here at Techno with the, the spark slim and I'm 408 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,360 holding it up to the wide angle lens. 409 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:01,760 And I'm just reading through the notes that are on the other side 410 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,040 of the lens and everything. Publish it on Instagram, Tiktok, 411 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,600 YouTube, Don't even think about it. 412 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,520 Just move along with my life and you never know when those 413 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,640 opportunities happen, right? Because this video for whatever 414 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,840 reason, for whatever confluence of events, be it timing, 415 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,240 location, trend, you know, the thin phone trend, whatever it is 416 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,440 or a combination of all of them, it's now a 2.1 million on 417 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:25,920 Instagram. Amazing. 418 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,400 And I've never had that before. And in one video, my follower 419 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,560 count on Instagram jumped from like 1000 to I think I checked 420 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,160 today and I think it's right at 8000, which is weird. 421 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,360 Like it's really weird to have one video do that. 422 00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:41,160 I've never had that before. But I bring this up just to be 423 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,200 like, you don't know when those opportunities happen, but once 424 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,560 they do, how can you accentuate? How can you really kind of or, 425 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,640 or what can you learn from them when they do? 426 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,320 Because you know, and in the Orbit community, you know this 427 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,200 as well as I do, I've been kind of like with the community 428 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,760 scratching my head like, why did that do so well? 429 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,160 What was it and how do I recreate that? 430 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,720 How do I learn a lesson from this opportunity and walk away 431 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,080 from this? Not just with 7000 more 432 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,000 followers because that's fine and everything, but I want to do 433 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,320 more. I want to create more potent 434 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,840 content and you know how can I do that? 435 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,920 Talking about scratching your head, I feel like some people 436 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,560 might discover your channel and look at it and be like, wait, 437 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,360 this guy doesn't even have like 10,000 subscribers but he's 438 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:29,160 getting invited to all these events. 439 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,280 Like that's unfair. How is that possible? 440 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,040 You know, whatever other feelings might come up, but how 441 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,800 have you managed to get this kind of access? 442 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,200 Is this due to your, you know, long standing industry 443 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,720 experience or have you made some other kind of inroads that 444 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,920 allowed you to start very very strong and with the very unfair 445 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,040 advantage compared to some 20 year old who wants to start a 446 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,720 tech YouTube channel? I think that's exactly it right? 447 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,880 Like I when I started my YouTube channel, I wasn't starting from 448 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,280 zero, even though the subscriber count said zero, right? 449 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,960 I had been doing the, I've been creating relationships in the 450 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,960 industry for 20 years. And so as a result, I got my 451 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,000 hands on hundreds of products, you know, at Twit. 452 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,960 And this is kind of part of the reason, you know, this touches 453 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,360 on what we're talking about earlier where, you know, I look 454 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:24,760 at my time at Twit and I can go on there and do a search for 455 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,400 like Jason Howell reviews or whatever. 456 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,880 And I see all these products that I either remember or I 457 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,320 don't remember anymore because there's been so many of them. 458 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,480 And you know, I look at the view counts and like 450,000, you 459 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,000 know, 500,200, eight, 80,000 or whatever. 460 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,600 They're all over the map, but I do that and, and I'm like, OK, 461 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,960 so then I know how to create content. 462 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,440 I know how to create a YouTube channel. 463 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,360 I just don't know how to create it for myself. 464 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,520 And that I think is the real big differentiator for me from, from 465 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,480 someone who's just getting into it, is that, yeah, it's, it 466 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,480 looks like I just started, but I, I didn't, it's just, I just 467 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,840 started this thing. And you know, for anyone who's 468 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,440 looking to kind of build those relationships, I mean, it really 469 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,160 is just a matter of, you know, doing what you can with what you 470 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,720 have. Building to enough. 471 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,960 And I don't know how you define enough, but building to enough 472 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,480 where you feel comfortable reaching out to some of these 473 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,200 companies and just saying, hey, you know, I wanna, I wanna, I'm 474 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,560 a big fan of your product and I wanna give it a review. 475 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,880 I'm happy to return it when the review is over, you know, give 476 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,240 them, give them many reasons. And also, I think what's really 477 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,720 important is tell them what they get out of it. 478 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,800 Not just I'm, you know, I'm really excited, I'm really 479 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,360 experienced, I'm really good, I blah, blah, blah. 480 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,440 They also want to know kind of what they get out of it. 481 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,040 Do they get access to your viewer base? 482 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,560 You know, like, how can they benefit from it too 'cause 483 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,280 really, at the end of the day, it's about how they gain 484 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,720 exposure. And I mean, I think you'll be 485 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,240 surprised at some point. You'd probably be surprised when 486 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,400 that company that you thought was unattainable says, OK, we'll 487 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,280 send you a device, here's the agreement form. 488 00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:03,800 You have to send it back in 30 days. 489 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,440 Just do your review and send it back. 490 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,600 And yeah, then you get that access. 491 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,320 Yeah man, I know that sounds easier than it probably is, but 492 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,160 that would be my advice. It's easier and harder at the 493 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,920 same time. But I fully agree with you that 494 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,720 it is about having the relationships and building some 495 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,120 kind of rapport or trust with somebody that you want to work 496 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:29,720 with. That brings us to one of my kind 497 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,880 of core topics. And that's like the whole aspect 498 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,840 of community and having people around you supporting what you 499 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,680 do. Because for 20 years you had a 500 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:45,360 team, people around you who facilitated making content for 501 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,040 the Internet, right? And then from one day to the 502 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,920 next, you kind of doing it all by yourself. 503 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,920 How did that feel? How did you manage the first 504 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,200 couple months? From a workload standpoint, it 505 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:04,800 was really, really stressful and it was a lot of doubt because I 506 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,840 there was also a lot of excitement. 507 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,320 I have to be honest, it was really exciting to launch AI 508 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,840 inside, you know, my, my very first fully independent podcast 509 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,640 that I owned and controlled. Amazing. 510 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,720 I think once the dust settles a little bit and you get like, I 511 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,760 got like 8 episodes in and I'm, I'm not seeing the numbers 512 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,720 increasing and you know, like it kind of felt a little hamster 513 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,560 wheelie and feeling a little alone. 514 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,400 Even though I have a Co host, Jeff Jarvis, my Co host on AI 515 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,560 inside. He's amazing. 516 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,920 But there is no person sitting behind me that I can every once 517 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,800 in awhile tap on the shoulder and exchange ideas and, and 518 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,680 everything. So from a from a work 519 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,760 standpoint, it felt pretty isolated and the the 20 years 520 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,640 leading up to my being laid off was all about building community 521 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,160 buzz out loud at CNET. You know, that which was the 522 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:59,120 first podcast that I really was super into, integrated into was 523 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,560 possibly one of the best communities that I've ever 524 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,880 worked with. But one thing that has happened 525 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:10,520 that I am so eternally grateful for is there have been key 526 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,360 members of the community that are so invested in seeing me 527 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:19,840 succeed and want to follow and support everything that I do in 528 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,960 whatever ways they can that they've stepped forward and 529 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,680 they've said, hey, we know you're starting out. 530 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,000 I've I've got experience in this aspect of your business. 531 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,160 I do it for my job and I'm willing to help you out and I 532 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,000 don't need to be paid right now. Maybe if you blow up or 533 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,160 whatever, you can pay me later. And you know, I could be part of 534 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,360 like the, the payroll of whatever it is. 535 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,080 But for right now, I just, I can see how I can help you achieve 536 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,960 your goals. And I think the challenge there, 537 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,680 like it's amazing, right? It's amazing that people are 538 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:57,600 willing to do that for you. And I, I recognize how, how, how 539 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,360 much of AA position of, well, how just grateful I am to be in 540 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,960 that position. And not everybody has that 541 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:11,400 right, But what that empowers and, and allows for when 542 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,640 something like that happens, it's, it's hard to plan for. 543 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,120 And, you know, I've had to work through my own kind of sense of 544 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,840 of kind of guilt, a little bit of guilt associated with that. 545 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,920 Like, I don't want to, I don't want to trouble someone else. 546 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,480 I don't want to burden someone else with the things that I 547 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,440 don't want to do. But if I say no, then I deny 548 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,960 them the opportunity from their perspective of helping someone 549 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,840 who actually matters to them and helping someone in a situation 550 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,720 in a way that matters to them. And so I've really had to kind 551 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,320 of come to terms with myself and just be like, no, you're not 552 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,640 burdening anyone. They've reached out. 553 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,560 They've said they want to help you, and that's OK. 554 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,880 Like, it's OK to welcome help when help comes, you know, 555 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,680 knocking on the door. And so that's been a big piece 556 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,320 of work for me. That is such a amazing story and 557 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,640 and like also such a proof of like what it can enable once you 558 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,560 put yourself out there. It's just like you attract the 559 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,840 right kind of people. So. 560 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,640 Oh, man, I, I get goosebumps just just listening to you. 561 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,800 But one other aspect then why we even know each other really is 562 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,160 because you were one of the first members in the Orbit 563 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:29,840 community, right? Yeah. 564 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,080 And that's right. What we're trying to build there 565 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,920 is like an online Co working space for people who work 566 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,480 independently in primarily YouTube, but like in all the 567 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,760 social medias. And how how has that experience 568 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,000 been? How has that helped you on your 569 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,520 journey? I would say that it's done what 570 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,320 I hoped it would do. It satisfied the roles that I 571 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:58,080 really hoped that it would. And I'm, I'm really kind of 572 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:03,040 looking forward to the community growing and building because 573 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,960 what I really needed, you know, kind of touching back on what we 574 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,000 were talking about earlier, it being an independent solo 575 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,320 creator can be at times a lonely existence. 576 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,040 And it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking like I'm the 577 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,680 only person that can solve this problem. 578 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,720 And so I just got to buckle, buckle down and do it without 579 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,880 reaching out for help. You know, I don't want to burden 580 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,160 anyone else. These are all the voices that I 581 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,120 have in my head at times. And with a community like the 582 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,680 Orbit community, it's very much everybody's there for a very 583 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,680 similar reason. We're all just looking to be 584 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,240 better in what we do, yes, but we're also looking to be support 585 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,960 for others. And you know, to it's a give and 586 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,200 take. It's a push and pull, 587 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,960 absolutely. And you know, sometimes I have 588 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,520 to remind myself to check in on it. 589 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,880 I'm really try and do like a daily check in and everything 590 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,400 'cause I don't want to just be a taker. 591 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,600 I want to also offer my advice and insight. 592 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,280 And something that comes along with that too, is when when I 593 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,520 force, not force, force is the wrong word, but when I really 594 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,720 kind of buckle down on offering insight on something that I 595 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,920 might not be 100% on, Like if someone in the community says, 596 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,920 hey, this is my thumbnail, what do you all think? 597 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,960 And sometimes I'll look at it, I'll be like, gosh, I don't know 598 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,440 how I feel like about that. You know, I could choose to not 599 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,640 respond or I could choose to respond and kind of talk through 600 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,680 a little bit of kind of where my mind is AT and thinking. 601 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,480 And what I've noticed is in doing that, I start to kind of 602 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,280 sharpen my perspective on how I really feel about these things. 603 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,160 And that in turn serves what I do for myself and gives me ideas 604 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,760 for what I do for myself. So it's been really beneficial 605 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,200 from that perspective. It's really nice to when I have 606 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,120 a question or, or a thumbnail that I'm not certain about or, 607 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,560 you know, I, I recently did my first collab experience with a 608 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,360 friend of mine, Shannon Morris and be able to share some of the 609 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,200 successes too and be like, hey, check it out. 610 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,000 This thing, you know, took off and I'm so proud of it, you 611 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,640 know, and get the, get the Pats on the back. 612 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:09,400 That feels good. Too. 613 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,800 OK, so first of all, I'm happy that you enjoy the experience 614 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:13,960 that you get something out of it. 615 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:19,040 Second, this moment of like, you just sharing what you know in 616 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,080 the comments has been such a growth tool for myself because 617 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,560 I've been active in a variety of communities. 618 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,280 And just like taking this time to express your thoughts or 619 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,960 sharing your your own lessons in these these common threads 620 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,400 teaches you so much about yourself and makes you spot 621 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,120 patterns and all those things. And very often my comments start 622 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,000 with a premise and then as I write, it's like, oh, wait, 623 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,600 there's a whole nother aspect to this. 624 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,440 So yeah, I really, I really love that. 625 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,240 But let's put a little bow around this whole conversation 626 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,200 because one thing that comes through very strongly is 627 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:00,760 something that you keep repeating. 628 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,600 It's like this. Do what you can with what you 629 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,680 have. And that's a motto I follow very 630 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,560 strongly. It's just like, figure out what 631 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,560 is enough for you. And so I'm, I'm really curious 632 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,960 to ask you this question at this stage in life. 633 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,760 What is success to you? What does success look like to 634 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,400 you right now? I, I think success for me, yes, 635 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,400 involves earning a living right. Like, you know, I, I would say 636 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,120 I'm not quite there yet. I'm, I'm, I'm further along now 637 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,920 than I was even six months ago. Thankfully, it seems like things 638 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,719 are trending upwards and that's that's a good thing. 639 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,199 Not everybody has the, you know, has the privilege to last this 640 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:44,239 long making not very much at all. 641 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,440 And I don't even know how I'm still doing it, but I am and my 642 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,639 wife's been amazing through it. But at the end of the day, I'm 643 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:57,720 gonna make a I'm gonna make I'm gonna earn a solid living for my 644 00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:01,280 family to where I feel like I'm contributing to our bottom line. 645 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:07,800 And I'm going to enjoy the fact that I'm doing it for like I'm, 646 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,240 I'm building up my own business and building up my own value 647 00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,760 around that instead of doing this for someone else. 648 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,960 And it before the last couple of years, I think if I had thought 649 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,040 about that a couple of years ago, before I even considered 650 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,560 going independent, that would have really scared me. 651 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,160 And the idea of having no solid footing. 652 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,480 And, you know, it's just really, really kind of diving in and 653 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,120 seeing where it leads. Like that's just not how I've 654 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:41,120 lived my life up until recently. That's a very kind of scary, 655 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,680 kind of frightening thought. But I think the gold there is 656 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,200 the more that I do this, the more comfortable I feel stepping 657 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,600 off into nothingness. Yeah. 658 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,280 And that's what they say around entrepreneurship in general, 659 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,240 right? Is, is that, yes, it's scary. 660 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:58,920 No, there are, there are no certainties. 661 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,440 And even when you fail, you still win because even your 662 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,600 failures define what you do next and where you go from there. 663 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:13,560 And I, I can feel that now in me, I've, I can, I can admit 664 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,680 that I've, I've failed in certain ways in the last year 665 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,560 and a half almost, but they don't, they don't make me want 666 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,280 to stop. They, they actually tell me, OK, 667 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,880 I've done that and I'm building to an even better version of 668 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,440 myself. And yeah, that's, I think what 669 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,760 keeps me going, what keeps me really, really driven where I'm 670 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,280 at right now. So normally at this point I ask 671 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,080 for advice of how to get started for somebody who hasn't done 672 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,880 anything yet. But I think in your case, it's 673 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:49,360 more like if somebody is later in life and has this itch to 674 00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:54,400 create something that builds wealth for them, but they 675 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,520 haven't had the guts to do it yet or the circumstances or 676 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,320 whatever, what would you tell them to just get started? 677 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,120 I mean, I, I'll tell you one thing that I would tell them, 678 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,120 don't quit your job and go into full time YouTube production. 679 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:15,880 Don't do that because like there's no quicker way for you 680 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,720 to fizzle out and overwork yourself and not see the results 681 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:21,520 that you expect you're going to see. 682 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,600 You know what I mean? It's just, I think in hindsight, 683 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,920 well, I've got, I've got 2-2 pieces of advice. 684 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,280 One, don't do that if you can. Keep working your job for as 685 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,200 long as you can, building this up on the side. 686 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,440 See how much you can build out of it to get you to the point to 687 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,080 where it makes more financial sense for you to leave than it 688 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,800 does for you to stay at your job. 689 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,880 And I realized that, you know, again, that's one of those 690 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,360 pieces of advice that's like, well, you mean I can't do this 691 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,920 now. I really want to do it now. 692 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,680 It's like, well, you could do it now. 693 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,200 And then you're either going to burn out or you're going to not 694 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,360 make, you know, as nearly as much money as you think, unless 695 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,360 you get incredibly lucky. You know, it's just not a, a 696 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,560 smart way to do it. And then in my opinion anyways. 697 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,680 And then the second thing that I would say is if you're telling 698 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,560 yourself you can't start because you need all this money to buy 699 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,680 all of this equipment and you don't have it yet and blah, 700 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,560 blah, blah, blah, blah, Really at the end of the day, the 701 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,960 equipment doesn't matter. When I went independent, I, you 702 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,920 know, had had my severance. So of course I was like, well, 703 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,880 I'm going to get that camera, I'm going to get that thing and 704 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,560 blah, blah, blah. And I went on a spending spree. 705 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,680 And I realize in hindsight now I record so much of my footage 706 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:36,000 with my phone and because it's just easier or my Osmo versus my 707 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,360 really nice camera lens that I'm looking in right now. 708 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:42,000 Now I'm getting out on the field and I'm just, it's almost like a 709 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,160 run and gun approach because it's easier and it's refreshing 710 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,440 and it's not quite as mental. I don't have to like overthink 711 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,800 it or whatever. You have what you need, Just use 712 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,200 what you have and get started. And then the more you do that, 713 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:01,120 the, the sooner you start, then the sooner on the calendar that 714 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,280 you can look at and be like, well, I'm, I'm further along 715 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,320 here versus getting to that point and looking back and 716 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,600 wishing you had started. And that I think is, I think at 717 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,480 the end of the day, if you, if you're considering it, you just 718 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,200 kind of got to do it. And your early stuff's going to 719 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,120 suck. And that's all right, because 720 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,000 nobody's watching. But eventually people watch, and 721 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,000 by that time you're better. I couldn't agree more. 722 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,880 This was such a beautiful conversation. 723 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,160 If people are really curious now about you, where can they find 724 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,720 you? What's the best way to stay in 725 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:35,520 your orbit? You know my primary go to it 726 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,440 right now is my YouTube channel. Just search for Jason Howell. 727 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,440 You'll find me at Jason Howell on YouTube. 728 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,520 Amazing, thanks for the chat. Thank you, this has been so much 729 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,360 fun. I love talking about this, so 730 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,560 thank you for giving me the opportunity to do that with you. 731 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,720 Oh anytime man. Like this felt like 20 minutes. 732 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:52,360 Like easy.