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Welcome back to the Free to Lead
podcast. 

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Today is an epic day for the 
show. 

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This is just to be like gone 
down in history as the first 

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time I've had a male guest on 
the show. 

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And today I'm so excited to 
introduce you to my friend 

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Darryl Potter. 
He's a 34 year career banker and

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author, a husband, a father, and
he helps people to live with 

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hope, purpose and resilience in 
a broken world. 

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We all we'll need that. 
And he draws on his books, even 

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the monsters living with grief, 
loss and depression. 

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And his newest book called 
something more Living well in a 

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broken world. 
So Daryl, I am so thankful that 

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you took the time to share with 
us here today because I've had 

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the honor of already diving in 
and hearing some of your stories

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and hearing some of why these 
books were even developed, 

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written and put out into the 
world. 

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And I'm really excited for you 
to Share your story of coming 

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from this place of pain and 
grief and maybe even confusion 

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and feeling a little bit like 
job and going, OK Lord, how do I

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find joy in this? 
And how do I still stand in your

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presence and know that you are 
good? 

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So can we just start with you 
sharing why this all came about 

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in the 1st place and how did you
start to write? 

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Sure, So I won't go all the way 
back to childhood in detail, but

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I think it helps to paint a bit 
of a back story. 

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I grew up Christian. 
My parents converted to 

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Christianity when I was seven 
years old. 

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But it was, it was a fairly 
dysfunctional household, 

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unfortunately, even in Christian
contexts, I think sometimes we 

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can present as Christians an 
image to the world. 

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And then when the household door
gets closed, there's something 

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different that kind of goes on 
behind the scenes. 

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And that was a little bit what 
growing up was for me. 

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So I disconnected from 
Christianity in my late high 

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teen years. 
I immigrated from California to 

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Canada on my own and dove off 
into basically an atheistic 

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lifestyle for a couple of years.
Came back to Christianity about 

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two years later and from then on
was very traditional. 

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It's almost like, you know, you 
have the smoker who who quit 

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smoking and then becomes like a 
hardcore anti smoker. 

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You know, I was like, I became a
Christian, but I became a super.

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I don't think fundamentalism is 
exactly the right word for where

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I was at, but definitely a very 
high control, high rigidity kind

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of flavor of Christianity as 
kind of a reaction to my time in

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the wild, as I sometimes refer 
to it. 

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And what I didn't recognize was 
that I developed a transactional

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relationship with with God. 
As long as I performed in a 

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certain way and again, at least 
outwardly, then I could expect a

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certain payback, which is super 
shallow, but probably not 

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unusual for a 20 something got 
married even though I'd been, 

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you know, not so righteous. 
During my my atheistic few 

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years, my wife and I had a 
fantastic dating relationship. 

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The first time I kissed her was 
when the the minister said you 

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may kiss your bride. 
You know, we tilted extremely 

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conservative on that front and 
had four years of marriage where

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she worked in a law firm. 
I worked in a bank, Our daughter

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was born 10 days in the bottom, 
fell out of the world, and I've 

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spent hours elsewhere going 
through that in detail, so I 

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won't bog you down too much. 
But suffice to say that in that 

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first year, she was not expected
to live. 

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And we wondered if my wife would
she she went through a series of

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what we thought were strokes or 
brain aneurysms of various 

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things, and she was 
incapacitated for on and off 

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throughout that first year as 
well. 

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And over time my daughter didn't
get better, she got worse. 

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So we started living in a 
Children's Hospital. 

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She didn't actually get 
diagnosed till she was 8 years 

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old. 
And at that point they let us 

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know that the window of hope we 
had was closing. 

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She should have passed at age 3.
She definitely wouldn't live her

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teen years. 
Fast forward to now, she's 24 

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years old so she's still with us
but it is degenerative. 

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She doesn't walk anymore. 
She doesn't She stopped talking 

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at 12 years old. 
And so on. 

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But back to your question as to 
why the books? 

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When my daughter was first born,
I looked back on my Christian 

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life and felt like something was
deeply wrong with the universe 

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because I'm not supposed to have
a special needs child. 

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Never mind one that's looks like
she's going to die on me. 

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Never mind the fact that my wife
was looking like she was going 

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to die on me. 
The times I was in the hospital 

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with both of them and even the 
hospital staff were confused. 

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Which one's the patient? 
Both of them and so I read Job 

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and the term that I tend to use 
the most to describe how I felt 

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about that first reading of job 
when I was in pain was this is a

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useless book. 
And that was a bit alarming to 

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me. 
So I read it again and came away

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that it's not only useless, it's
also boring and and really was 

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upset because like if God, 
creator of the universe, writes 

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a book on suffering, that's 
actually useless to a person 

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who's actually suffering. 
I don't care if it's like an 

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academic, you know, touchstone 
and western literature, blah, 

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blah, blah, blah, blah. 
If it doesn't actually help and 

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when it when it matters, then 
that's not a very good resume 

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item for God. 
I don't think he wrote the Bible

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as a resume. 
But but but you know, that's 

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kind of how I took it. 
And so I came to came to the 

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conclusion is why am IA 
Christian if this thing doesn't 

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work and the book that's 
supposed to explain the season 

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of my life doesn't work? 
Or maybe the problem's me and 

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I'm not understanding Job. 
And so I started studying job. 

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I picked up 1 commentary. 
I didn't even understand what it

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was talking about. 
It was so deeply dense and 

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academic. 
So I picked up some other 

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commentaries and I started 
studying Job and it turned into 

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a 10 year journey of studying 
nothing but Job in my personal 

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worship and Bible study. 
Some days it would only be half 

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hour a day because I had work or
other things going on. 

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Weekends it could be 5 hours in 
a coffee shop just sitting there

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studying this book. 
And it got to the point where I,

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I circled back to those 
originally incomprehensible 

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commentaries and I was able to 
finally read them because I had 

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now seven years of research 
under my belt and I could 

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understand what these guys are 
talking about. 

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And, and I was reading 
translators, handbooks and all 

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sorts of stuff. 
And I finally got to the point 

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where I get it now I understand 
how Job helps and it brought 

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peace between me and God, but it
still didn't bring joy. 

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So I was no longer at war with 
the Creator. 

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I was surrendered, but I was 
grumpy. 

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And by the way, Job was too. 
It doesn't come out well in our 

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English translations, but the 
first speech with God, he 

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responds to God in a way that 
again, it's it's masked in 

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English, but I talk about how 
he's a little sarcastic and how 

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he responds to God if you follow
the actual Hebrew nuance, which 

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is why there's a second speech 
from God. 

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So that's what led to, and I 
won't go into detail on it yet, 

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but that's what led us to the 
Something more. 

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Something More is a study in 
Ecclesiastes, which is like the,

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yeah, how do I enjoy this life? 
It's. 

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Like you're picking the two. 
The two books are like, wow, 

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these are really deep and dark 
and kind of Boo, you know? 

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So you gave yourself seven years
to even start to fathom at least

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a little bit like, that's. 
Yeah, way more than most 

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anybody's going to do. 
They usually just write it off 

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and then move on into a life of 
sorrow and depression or band 

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aids like, you know, alcoholism 
and other different things like 

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that. 
So you did is very unique. 

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But I wanted to ask you. 
You said I got this aha moment 

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where I finally understood it 
and I was still in this, you 

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know, OK, I get it. 
Our relationship is better. 

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God, but I am really still 
grumpy. 

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But what was aha moment for you 
where it just clicked and you 

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understood? 
So the the interesting thing was

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in the church I was in at the 
time, I started preaching 

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through Job probably at the six 
or seven-year mark at that point

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in my study. 
And the interesting thing was I 

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wasn't at peace yet when I 
started preaching that series. 

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And I was literally almost three
years into that series. 

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It ran for 3 1/2 years, still 
not at peace, but preaching each

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chapter. 
I just basically preached the 

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chapter a week roughly. 
The aha moment for me was when I

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got to God's second speech, not 
in the course of my personal 

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study, because I'd gone through 
that second speech multiple 

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times with multiple commentaries
by then, but in the course of 

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writing the sermons. 
My daughter turned 8 years old 

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and that's when her seizures 
started. 

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And her seizure, her first 
seizure, by the way, a big, what

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we used to call grand Mal 
seizure. 

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They got different terminology 
now, but we used to call them 

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grand Mal seizures, a kind of 
full bodied high drama type. 

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If they last more than 30 
seconds they can cause brain 

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damage. 
Her her first grandma lasted 6 

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hours and they finally put her 
into a 10 day medically induced 

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coma to make it stop. 
It was in the course of driving 

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behind the ambulance to the 
hospital when everything the 

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paramedics in our house could do
couldn't stop it, and she'd 

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never had a seizure before she 
did. 

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Everything else. 
Things just clicked for me, 

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where I just kept repeating over
and over and over to myself the 

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title of what turned out to be 
the book Even the Monsters. 

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Even the Monsters. 
You are God of Even the 

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monsters, which is the point of 
Job's are God's second speech 

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where he talks about those who 
know the book of Job will 

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remember the leviathan and the 
be a moth. 

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Those were monsters. 
Commentaries have tried to turn 

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them into alligators and 
hippopotamuses and stuff but 

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that's dumb like the they 
breathe fire They they they've 

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got scales of iron. 
They like these are mythical 

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beings to illustrate that God's 
God, even this Dragons are in 

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his control. 
And but Job's fourth friend does

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a really great job of saying he.
So Job has three friends that 

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are knuckleheads and get in 
trouble at the end of the book. 

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But there's a fourth friend that
people often overlook, probably 

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because they're bored by then. 
But the 4th friend actually has 

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good things to say. 
And one of the good things he 

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has to say is I don't know 
what's going on, but God 

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sometimes does things for a 
reason. 

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B reason, C reason, D reason. 
And I don't know which one 

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applies to you, but I do know he
always does things to save 

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people from the pit. 
He repeats that line over and 

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over and over again, that it 
could be preventative, it could 

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be corrective, it could be 
because of somebody else 

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unrelated to you that he's just 
your, you know, bit player in 

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this bigger scene. 
And so God is God of even the 

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monsters, but God is God is 
love. 

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God is doesn't always explain 
himself though. 

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And he asks us to trust him with
the story. 

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And as we know if you know 
anybody who's read through the 

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Bible realizes sometimes those 
stories are 1200 years stories. 

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And some of those heroes in the 
Bible had no idea what was going

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on. 
It's like 4 generations after 

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them. 
It all comes together with a 

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nice click. 
So, you know, you noted, OK, 

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God, even the monsters like you 
are even over the monsters. 

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And that's when it all like you 
started to understand at least 

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that grief and and loss, 
depression, things like that. 

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God's even over that, like he's 
going to walk you through this. 

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You got it. 
I almost had an accident driving

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behind the ambulance because I 
just started bawling in the car.

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And part of it was stress over 
my child. 

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Yeah, part of it was just pain 
and everything else that a 

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father feels in that 
circumstance, but part of it was

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suddenly starting to understand 
that I don't understand and I 

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don't have to. 
Yeah, that's really big for us 

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that want to be in control and 
want to see the end from the 

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beginning. 
And totally. 

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There's a book I've been reading
called King Jesus recently and 

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it's by a pastor of a large 
church in Nashville area and he 

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was talking about our different 
ideas of Jesus and I think that 

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we can get stopped up in our 
fuzzy Jesus box. 

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He talked calls him and he says 
that there's different types of 

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views of Jesus, but one of them 
he calls a fuzzy Jesus. 

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And this one I think is the 
majority of Christianity right 

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here. 
It's that idea that Jesus died 

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for us to live happy and joyful 
lives, and when we're not living

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a happy and joyful life, Oh no, 
like what you said, either 

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Christianity doesn't work, it's 
not real, or something's wrong 

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with me. 
And Darrell, that was the same 

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thing that I battled as a child,
going through lots of abuse and 

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lost trauma, pain and all this 
stuff that I felt either God 

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wasn't good or I wasn't good. 
And I just actually believed 

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that it was both. 
I believe it was both. 

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But honestly, I had decided that
that was the way it was. 

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And I didn't even form a 
relationship with God. 

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I couldn't even form a 
relationship with God the Father

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before I came into relationship 
with God the Son and then God 

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the Holy Spirit. 
And then I could allow God the 

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Father in because I couldn't 
trust him. 

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And it took a lot of like 
process. 

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And I wrote about this in my 
book Behind Enemy Lies, where it

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I call them checkpoint people 
that God used in order for me to

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get from one point to another 
and understanding because he, he

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knows the end from the 
beginning. 

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We don't, even though I think we
do or we want to so badly. 

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But, you know, I didn't know 
that here I was going to be 17 

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years later or whatever, that 
here I would be facing some big 

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challenges in loss and grief 
that I had never experienced at 

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a different level. 
Like I experienced abuse, but I 

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had not experienced the death of
a loved one. 

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Then my mom died, my dad died, 
my son was born with stuff. 

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There was all these things going
on, divorce, like lots of really

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hard things that I never wanted 
for my life or never saw coming.

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And I went through a season of 
such darkness that I felt like I

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knew God so intimately at one 
point in my life. 

256
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And then because of grief and 
because of loss and pain, it was

257
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almost like I felt like I just 
got shoved in a, in a box 

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somewhere. 
And I, it was so dark I couldn't

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see and I couldn't tell anybody 
because goodness, depression is 

260
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,240
like so shameful and nobody 
wants to talk about it. 

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And I remember my counselor 
saying at one point, this is now

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00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,280
years and years later, but he 
said, you know, it would be 

263
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,040
funny if you came up with a 
podcast that was called Broken 

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and Joyful and in Parenthesa 
said sometimes like that's true.

265
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,360
Yeah. 
That's how we live our lives 

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00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,800
now. 
I'm 43 years old, you know, I 

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00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,960
go, okay, I see where you are in
the suffering. 

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00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,680
Jesus did not come to make our 
lives so happy and joyful and 

269
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,960
give us everything we ever want 
and expect that we expect. 

270
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,880
We should never have a challenge
when his example of living, when

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we say Christ like living well, 
He also suffered. 

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We haven't had to die, you know,
like he did. 

273
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,520
So at least there's that. 
But there's suffering and loss 

274
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and grief and sickness and all 
those things, even though those 

275
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,280
are not our portion. 
We live on this side of the 

276
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,160
fallen world, right? 
We live in a fallen world side 

277
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of heaven. 
And I even remember Daryl 

278
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,760
talking with my sister a little 
while back and she was barren 

279
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,520
for a long time and she was 
hitting her late 30s, never 

280
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,080
could conceive, didn't 
understand why. 

281
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,560
I had like a couple miscarriages
here and there and she just said

282
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,600
I don't understand. 
She was like really mad at God, 

283
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,040
not really believing he was 
there. 

284
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,800
And that's what we do. 
We start blaming. 

285
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,760
We need to look for someone to 
blame for our, our loss and our 

286
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,080
and things not working out. 
So it's the way that we want or 

287
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,080
our fuzzy Jesus isn't so fuzzy 
in that moment. 

288
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:51,920
And then we, you know, freaks us
out. 

289
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,000
And I think there's a remnant. 
There's a remnant of people who 

290
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,560
may have to go through that 
sorrow or grief and feel a 

291
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,360
pulling away of like from God, 
like, where are you? 

292
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,920
But there's those that will come
back. 

293
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,880
And those are the remnant. 
You know, all of this, even 

294
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,560
through 2020 and all the other 
things. 

295
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,120
So yeah, I just wanted to share.
I'm so thankful that you're 

296
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,320
talking about this because I 
know there's a lot of women that

297
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,880
listen to this show who have 
experienced great loss, whether 

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00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,480
it's physical loss of a loved 
one or a dream, a vision of 

299
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,160
their future that's never come 
to pass. 

300
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,880
They're all the same. 
Grieving is, it doesn't look the

301
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,040
same for everybody, but how we 
handle it, and that's why I 

302
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,320
wanted you to come on the show. 
How we handle it is so vital, 

303
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,520
and it's OK to go through 
seasons of feeling like I'm just

304
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,600
really PO D right now. 
Like that's just the way I'm 

305
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,880
just really mad at God. 
I'm mad at you, I'm mad at me, 

306
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,160
I'm mad at everybody. 
That's the way it is. 

307
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,440
It's a process. 
And you know, the interesting 

308
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,600
thing is it's a pattern 
throughout scripture. 

309
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:55,320
I talk about it in the book that
humans are uncomfortable with 

310
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,040
other humans suffering. 
Yes. 

311
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:05,319
And so much of what humans will 
do to each other in the name of 

312
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,560
compassion or comfort or 
whatever else is really about 

313
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:13,599
making themselves feel better. 
And we see that in Job, where 

314
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,760
some of the friends just want to
blame Job, despite the evidence 

315
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,640
that Job's not at fault. 
God himself says he's definitely

316
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,440
not at fault because it just 
makes the math and their world 

317
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,960
add up in a way that makes them 
feel comfortable. 

318
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:32,200
Job's friends also got mad at 
Job for his expressions of 

319
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,800
emotion and his expressions of 
of anger and his expressions of 

320
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,640
all of this stuff. 
But God never got mad at Job for

321
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,040
that stuff. 
He actually said Job spoke what 

322
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,040
is right about me? 
Even when Job said, Hey, it's I 

323
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,400
feel like this is totally 
unfair. 

324
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,280
God was like, yeah, it's totally
unfair. 

325
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,720
He can take it. 
And you let you know, you read 

326
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,080
David in the Psalms. 
He's sometimes a little crazy. 

327
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,200
And, you know, in terms of his 
emotional outburst, you'd like, 

328
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,400
dude, you know, maybe edit 
yourself down a little. 

329
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,840
But hey, that's, you know, as 
another preacher, I, I heard one

330
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,280
said that's good scripture 
printed. 

331
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,840
You know, Jeremiah, he he it's 
into outright arguments with God

332
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,280
at times through the book of 
Jeremiah. 

333
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,160
And Jesus himself wept. 
And in the Garden of Gethsemane,

334
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,280
he didn't start with your will 
be done. 

335
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,440
He he started with, hey, I know 
we put this together from the 

336
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,520
beginning, but can we rewind 
this? 

337
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,200
Like, I'm not happy about how 
things are playing out here. 

338
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,320
Yeah, it's OK, James says. 
In your anger, do not sin, he 

339
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:26,400
doesn't say. 
Don't be angry. 

340
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,480
That's true. 
And that is the hardest part, I 

341
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,240
think for people and people 
think, oh, anger is this, you 

342
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,880
know, we can't feel this emotion
because if we do, it will cause 

343
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,080
us to sin. 
Well, First off, Jesus died for 

344
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,400
your sins. 
So you can ask for forgiveness. 

345
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,840
OK, So just, but you need to let
yourself feel because if you 

346
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,960
feel, you won't deal with the 
feeling so that you can heal. 

347
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:49,440
You have to. 
Oh. 

348
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,480
Excellent to. 
Heal you have to process out 

349
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:54,960
emotions. 
You can't just walk around with 

350
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,200
anger inside of you. 
It's like driving your car with 

351
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,000
the check engine light on and 
you going back. 

352
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,600
That's no big deal. 
It's the check engine. 

353
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,560
So warning light in your life. 
Oh, I'm angry. 

354
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,960
What am I angry about? 
Sometimes we're I just anger, 

355
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:13,280
yes, but like, I love, you know,
like Elijah after he went and he

356
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,280
defeated all of the Pagan gods 
and called down fire, all the 

357
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,680
stuff, you know, he's running 
from this evil queen who wants 

358
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,920
to kill him. 
He's running out into the desert

359
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:25,120
and he goes and sits under a 
tree and asks God to kill him. 

360
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:28,960
Like I just want to die. 
But what he does is precious 

361
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,560
because you're thinking, oh, 
gosh, OK, here's this man, this 

362
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,560
prophet who outrun Chariots. 
He's prophesied all these, I 

363
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,920
mean, amazing miracles happen at
this man's hands, right? 

364
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,400
And yet here he is in the 
desert, asking for God to kill 

365
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,240
him. 
He wants to die because he's 

366
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,560
afraid of the hard things that 
may come. 

367
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,400
He's afraid of the possibility 
of what's coming. 

368
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,400
He knows the power of God, yet 
for some reason forgets it 

369
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,040
because he's human. 
So what does God do? 

370
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,640
He sends angels. 
It's so precious. 

371
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,000
That part is my favorite. 
He sends an Angel to what He 

372
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,720
sleeps. 
First off, we need to rest. 

373
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,120
We're going through grief, I 
think. 

374
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,080
And then he sends him provision 
and through food, he gives him 

375
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,480
what he needs to refuel. 
And that takes stepping back. 

376
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,360
So during the stuff with your 
daughter when it was intense, 

377
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,880
and I'm sure there are still 
times of intensity. 

378
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,960
I don't know your your whole 
story now currently, but that 

379
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,040
you needed to rest, your wife 
needed to rest, and it was 

380
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,800
probably difficult to find those
times, but that God would 

381
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,800
minister rest and healing to you
so you could keep going. 

382
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,720
Yes, you're absolutely right. 
I'm going to respond to that bit

383
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,880
in the desert there in a second.
And one of the things I think it

384
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,600
might be helpful for your 
listeners to understand as well 

385
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,360
as that I'm not speaking as I 
write these books from a place 

386
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:46,320
of looking back where now I'm in
the the golden hour of my life. 

387
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:51,320
My wife and I were up roughly 
every 45 minutes to our all 

388
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,720
night long last night with 
seizure activity and other 

389
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,960
things. 
We've got 10 hours of of 

390
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,760
palliative care nursing during 
the day, so 9:00 AM to 7:00 PM. 

391
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,600
But we're the night shift and we
did the math recently on what 

392
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,600
that night shift is worth 
because it has to be a parent or

393
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,440
a registered nurse or higher 
because of the meds and 

394
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,520
procedures involved. 
And we put in about 450 grand a 

395
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,080
year in medical support labor, 
if you were to calculate what 

396
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,360
that actually amounts to in the 
course of a year and still work 

397
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,880
a day job and raise our other 
son and try to live a life. 

398
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,720
Going back to your in the desert
comment there, I'm reminded of 

399
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,920
that verse in the Bible where it
says that he remembers that we 

400
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,560
are but dust. 
And I think part of what was 

401
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,920
going on, you know, post victory
with the Chariots and the fire 

402
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,160
from heaven and all that is, is 
simply we are not physically 

403
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:49,680
wired to bear the spiritual 
weight of spiritual reality. 

404
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,400
And so while we may step into 
roles as God calls us for a 

405
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,120
while, and God may use us to the
point where we're collapsing in 

406
00:21:58,120 --> 00:21:59,920
the desert and hey, can you just
kill me now? 

407
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:03,360
You know he will send the 
angels, literally or 

408
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:07,400
metaphorically, but more often 
it's not angels but friends or 

409
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,800
some other human intervention. 
But we really are but dust. 

410
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:17,200
We do the best we can with 
temporary superhero roles to 

411
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,200
play, but we're not really built
for this. 

412
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,560
And that's where Jesus comes in,
and the Holy Spirit. 

413
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,600
Yeah, we can be empowered to do 
what we can't do on our own, 

414
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,480
which most comes is all the 
time. 

415
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,400
I love Jesus reminds us to lay 
our you know our burdens down 

416
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,360
like all that are heavy laden. 
Come to me for I give you rest 

417
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:35,960
like he wants to yoke to us so 
he can walk with us. 

418
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,880
Partnering with it's not all 
him, all you. 

419
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:42,520
It's partnering. 
And sometimes they will just let

420
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,080
go and let God. 
Yes, I agree. 

421
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,320
But he also calls us a partner 
with him. 

422
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,720
So you still have to get up with
your daughter and all the 

423
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,520
tremendous stuff that's going on
there. 

424
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,280
But he's partnering with you and
giving you, sustaining you. 

425
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,560
You're here and you don't look 
like you've slept like nothing. 

426
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,760
So he sustains well, let's talk 
a little bit more about the 

427
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,560
challenges you face that's 
caused you to to really want to 

428
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,840
speak up and out about grief and
depression and how to handle the

429
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,600
plights of life, so to speak, 
well. 

430
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,960
Sure. 
So I do love what's occurring in

431
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,200
society as we evolve our 
understanding of mental health 

432
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,600
and so on. 
And I think even Christian 

433
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,160
preachers and teachers are 
getting better. 

434
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,040
It's starting to incorporate 
that kind of thinking into how 

435
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,200
we I can remember going back 20 
years listening to preachers 

436
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,080
that basically said, if you have
a problem, you know, there's no 

437
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,120
point in digging it up and 
rehashing it or whatever. 

438
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:40,560
Just, you know, be more outward 
focused. 

439
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,520
Go go serve your neighbor. 
And you know, there's in some 

440
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,600
situations there's some wisdom 
to that. 

441
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,840
But but you know what, things 
buried fester and I think we're 

442
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,960
getting much better at dealing 
with stuff. 

443
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,120
I mean, you're a coach. 
I'm sure sometimes you're trying

444
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,160
to point people forward and I'm 
sure sometimes there's hey, if 

445
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,000
there's laundry to deal with, 
deal with it because it doesn't 

446
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,600
get cleaner by laying there in a
pile mouldering. 

447
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,320
No, it gets. 
Worse, but we don't have to go 

448
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,160
roll around in it either. 
We do deal with that. 

449
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,960
Correct, correct. 
So some of the challenges I 

450
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,240
think that that I've encountered
and what led me to want to speak

451
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,920
this way is as you mentioned at 
the outset, I'm also a 34 year 

452
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,320
career banker, one of Canada's 
largest banks. 

453
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,160
And the the culture in banking 
tends to be very conservative, 

454
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,040
tends to be on the extremely 
professional side of white 

455
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,720
collar. 
That's great because I can show 

456
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,760
up at the workplace and not 
expect a lot of X-rated jokes 

457
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,800
and you know, other, other 
behaviors. 

458
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,000
So there's some real, real joys 
for working in that kind of an 

459
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,000
environment. 
But there's also a there can be 

460
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,240
a very plastic artificial, not 
Instagram because it's not that 

461
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,680
shallow, but, and I don't mean 
that that's true. 

462
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,480
Yeah, yeah. 
But but nevertheless, yeah, 

463
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,800
there there can still be a very 
not real perception if you 

464
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,160
believe the Monday elevator 
conversations around how was 

465
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,600
your weekend? 
Everybody's living the blissful 

466
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,360
life every week. 
So early on I realized I can't 

467
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:13,320
function this way and life 
doesn't work this way for me. 

468
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,200
And I either need to stop being 
a banker or I need to find a way

469
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,160
to incorporate this into the 
rest of my life. 

470
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,360
And I just can't function living
a double life. 

471
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,160
Like it's too hard to keep track
of which mask am I wearing now. 

472
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,360
And so I just started being very
candid, not in a feel sorry for 

473
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,280
me way, but in a here's what 
reality is for me right now. 

474
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,560
If I'm a little tired in this 
meeting right now, it's because 

475
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,480
I was in the emergency room from
3:00 AM till 6:00 AM and then 

476
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,800
put my suit on to come here. 
So bear with me if I ask you the

477
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,400
same question twice. 
So it wasn't an excuse making 

478
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,240
transparency. 
In some ways I maybe pushed 

479
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,240
myself harder than I needed to, 
as if to prove something to 

480
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,880
myself in terms of, you know, I 
can do this. 

481
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,920
So I've got a therapist now for 
a couple of years. 

482
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,720
It's helping me wind back a few 
negative behaviors in that 

483
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,240
regard, a few performance 
oriented personality quirks. 

484
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,440
But at the same time, I didn't 
pretend to be something I 

485
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,040
wasn't. 
You know, when every, when 

486
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,600
people around me say, wow, I 
haven't been to the tropics in 

487
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,200
six months. 
I don't know if I can take it. 

488
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,760
I need to book something. 
And I hear them complain just a 

489
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,320
little too. 
I'm I'm not afraid to say, 

490
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,720
listen, dude, my daughter's 24 
years old, my son's third year 

491
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,840
university and he has never been
on a family vacation in his life

492
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,760
because one of us has to stay 
with our daughter all the time. 

493
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,000
And so I do things with him. 
My wife does things with him. 

494
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,840
But if you haven't been to the 
tropics for six years, it might 

495
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,160
not be the end of the world. 
And, and there's a few times 

496
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,680
I've shared that kind of thing. 
And it's like, you know what, 

497
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:44,960
Darrell? 
You don't need to be a downer on

498
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,560
everybody around you, but it's 
the same. 

499
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,480
Yeah, it does help people to 
grasp, hey, maybe I should enjoy

500
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,600
my holiday and stop complaining 
about the fact that, you know, I

501
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,480
booked AX Room and I got AY room
and and it, you know, to my 

502
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,800
perfect level of whatever. 
And it's like, dude, you weren't

503
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,560
waking up at the night with, you
know, medical alarms going off 

504
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,240
and trying to function at work 
sleep deprived. 

505
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,560
So yeah, who cares if the room 
was blue and you expected it to 

506
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,280
be turquoise? 
Yeah, You know, I think that's 

507
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,240
part of our perspective shift 
that needs to happen at times. 

508
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,280
I don't think that you have to 
be the negative downer guy, but 

509
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,120
at the same time, it is about 
perspective to even help that 

510
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,960
person who's like, Boo to my 
yellow room versus blue or 

511
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,280
whatever, that, hey, you have a 
room that's awesome. 

512
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,080
Like be thankful or you know, my
sister that I was telling you 

513
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,680
she struggled to have to 
conceive and have a baby. 

514
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,720
I spent two hours on the phone 
with her this last April, 

515
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,800
helping her to see God as who he
really is, not the God that's a 

516
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,600
genie in the sky, but the God 
who's sovereign over it all 

517
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,760
because he's not meant to be. 
So anyways, we shared like a 2 

518
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,120
hour conversation. 
I helped her to gain some 

519
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,880
perspective. 
And I'm, I'm that person too who

520
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,920
maybe can look a little bit more
on the like, geez, can you be 

521
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,080
any more real? 
And like, well, actually, what 

522
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,880
else is there? 
Like we need to be kind of real.

523
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,120
So anyways, I had this great 
conversation with her. 

524
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,200
She ends up having prayed over 
her. 

525
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,640
She ends up getting pregnant in 
July, has this beautiful baby 

526
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,240
girl now. 
So praise the Lord. 

527
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,040
Yeah, it's fantastic. 
Baby's perfect, Everything's 

528
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,320
great. 
She's healthy, everybody's 

529
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,440
healthy, everything's fine. 
But guess what she's going 

530
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:18,880
through right now? 
Teething. 

531
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,680
So I get a message this morning,
right? 

532
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,600
Teething is tough, but like in 
comparison to like what you're 

533
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,720
going through, for instance, No,
teething is nothing, right? 

534
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,000
OK, but teething is tough in 
general. 

535
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,160
It is a tough season, she says. 
I, I'm dreading this time. 

536
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,080
And so my response, I send her a
voice chat back because this 

537
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,480
can't come through text very 
well. 

538
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,600
And I just said, I want to help 
you shift your perspective 

539
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,880
because instead of dreading this
teething season, be thankful 

540
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,520
that you get to go through this 
teething season, that this too 

541
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,560
shall pass. 
It only lasts for lasts for a 

542
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,240
short time and then it's over 
and you have a baby. 

543
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,920
So thank God, be grateful. 
It's about perspective shift. 

544
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:03,440
Because Daryl, I know it's easy 
for us to get caught up in this 

545
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,760
world, but we are only here for 
the next. 

546
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,520
We can't take what we have with 
us when we go and the vacations,

547
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,840
all the things, it doesn't 
matter what we have. 

548
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,600
It's nice to do stuff with our 
families and be able to do those

549
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,560
things, but it's not the end all
be all. 

550
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,040
That's not what we're here for. 
We're not here to comfort 

551
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,160
ourselves to death and entertain
ourselves to death. 

552
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,600
We're here for we. 
We're on mission, hopefully, to 

553
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,480
live our lives honoring God and 
loving others and doing our best

554
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,200
through it. 
That's what I think at least. 

555
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,600
So is it nice to have the 
vacation? 

556
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,560
Absolutely. 
But when we're complaining of 

557
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,160
all the things we don't have, I 
think it's OK to give somebody a

558
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,240
little perspective shift and 
say, can I just help you for a 

559
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,600
second here so that you can be 
more grateful for what you have,

560
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,960
not to be a jerk. 
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 

561
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,120
absolutely. 
And it's so you you I love the 

562
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,400
way you helped your your sister 
because you only have a 2 year 

563
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,400
old for a year and then that 2 
year old is gone, baby. 

564
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,680
Now you have a three-year old, 
but you never get the 2 year old

565
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,960
back and the foundation you lay 
of comfort or helping them 

566
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,800
overcome pain or letting them 
slay their little 2 year old 

567
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,680
Dragons themselves because you 
can't ultimately teeth for them.

568
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,360
You lay psychological 
foundations for what they can 

569
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,400
deal with and overcome. 
But also knowing who will be 

570
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,160
there to comfort me, but also 
knowing that I'm an independent 

571
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,400
human at 2. 
That some things I got to go 

572
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,280
through on my own. 
Like there's just so much magic 

573
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,600
occurring while we're mindlessly
crumbling about, Do you think? 

574
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:43,920
Or whatever it is. 
I agree. 

575
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,520
And you know, you brought up a 
really great point because you 

576
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,480
mentioned you have a son, so you
have a dog who's very challenged

577
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,280
in her health and then you have 
this son who's in university. 

578
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,640
So he's clearly doing well and 
you've been on vacation. 

579
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,360
So, you know, I think I'd like 
to talk about this because I 

580
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,600
know there's a lot of moms out 
there who would like to hear 

581
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,840
this or maybe wouldn't like to 
hear it but need to hear it. 

582
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,920
Let me just say it that way, OK?
And myself included, I grew up 

583
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,080
not coddled. 
I grew up being locked out of 

584
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,480
the house and you stay outside 
all day because my mom had eight

585
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,120
kits and she was like, and we 
would have to use the bathroom 

586
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,240
outside. 
We would to do everything 

587
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,960
outside. 
We if we need a drink, go turn 

588
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,160
the hose on. 
That's the way. 

589
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,440
Like I really grew up crazy and 
compared to like what I try to 

590
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,000
give my kids. 
And I think that because for 

591
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,520
some reason, I don't know where 
this shifted in, in the 

592
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,840
generations or society. 
I don't know where this shifted,

593
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,440
but I noticed it a lot. 
It's not just me. 

594
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,360
We live to make sure our 
children never have to suffer. 

595
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,440
We never want them to ever have 
to deal with a negative thing 

596
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,440
ever. 
And I have these two older 

597
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,480
children who I basically gave my
whole life over to them. 

598
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,440
And I said, I'm going to make 
sure everything is perfect for 

599
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,160
you because my life was such 
hell growing up that I want you 

600
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,440
to never have to suffer, never 
feel pain. 

601
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,520
I gave them a great disservice. 
So I'm just setting this up 

602
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,680
because I want you to share how 
you helped yourself, son, how 

603
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,680
you parented in these seasons of
because Daryl, I mean, I, I seen

604
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,000
what happened when I had my 
third child. 

605
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:24,320
I had two older children who 
became very annoyed by my need 

606
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,520
to go help this third child who 
was a little bit more of a 

607
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,080
challenge as health life. 
He came onto the scene, my focus

608
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,600
shifted to him and it began to 
really annoy them. 

609
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,120
And they were, you know, like 
just that had these attitudes 

610
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,720
of, well, when things aren't 
perfect, you know, what do I do?

611
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,640
Or something's gone wrong. 
You know, something must be 

612
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,040
wrong with me. 
Like what you're going through 

613
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,240
right dealing. 
And I think we set our kids up 

614
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,440
to be very weak individuals if 
they can't handle challenges of 

615
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,520
life and and you're taking care 
of everything for them. 

616
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,320
So how did you handle that for 
yourself? 

617
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,360
How did you guys parent your son
like that? 

618
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,360
You know to help him with? 
Yeah, so we were blessed early 

619
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:03,280
on. 
We read a book called 

620
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,160
Extraordinary Kids that warned 
us of the danger to the healthy 

621
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,560
child. 
And so we we did, even though 

622
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,520
even if my wife and I couldn't 
take them on vacations, we would

623
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,800
do things independently with 
them So that, you know, we 

624
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,720
acknowledge that there were 
limitations and tried to balance

625
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,520
that out. 
But to your bigger question of 

626
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,360
parenting in general, one of the
things I really wanted to 

627
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,240
emphasize with raising our, 
well, children, hello, it works 

628
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,720
more better for us was not 
repeating the mistakes of my 

629
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,200
childhood. 
So similar to yours, mine was a 

630
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,480
little more extreme. 
It would fall into the category 

631
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,480
of outright neglect. 
Well, maybe yours did too. 

632
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,360
I don't know. 
We, I don't know your background

633
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,840
in super detail, but definitely 
neglect. 

634
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,960
You know, teething for me, my, 
my, I've had ants explain it to 

635
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,040
me later in life was stick the 
kid in the room, lock the door, 

636
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,640
put a vacuum cleaner on outside 
and come back later in the day 

637
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,040
like that. 
That was the the solution to 

638
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:03,240
teething, you know, So that kind
of neglect is, is not helpful to

639
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,880
a toddler. 
One of the So what what I wanted

640
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,760
to do was teach my son for first
of all, my wife and I early on 

641
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,080
decided we were raising adults, 
but how do you do that and not 

642
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,199
become disciplinarians and and 
all of that? 

643
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,320
So one of the things we did is 
we wanted to give autonomy 

644
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,080
early. 
So I can remember his bedtime 

645
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,679
used to be 7:00 PM and and that 
was, you know, far too early, 

646
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:26,920
you know, four years old. 
He was distressed by that. 

647
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,080
And so we we sat him down one 
day when he was 4, approaching 5

648
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,040
and said, listen, you know, 
you're getting older, you're 

649
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,199
about to turn 5. 
You're becoming more mature, 

650
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,239
you're becoming more grown up. 
You know, he's quite proud of 

651
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,120
that. 
You know, dynamic this is this 

652
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,440
conversation is going well so 
far. 

653
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,520
And we said, so we with getting 
older becomes privileges and 

654
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,320
responsibilities together. 
So here's what you can expect. 

655
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,800
Your bedtime is going to be able
to move from 7:00 to 7:30. 

656
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,760
For him, that was just like 
Nirvana. 

657
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,160
I've got, I've got friends who's
4 year olds go to bed at 11 and 

658
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,360
like, dude, what are you doing? 
It's crazy. 

659
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,520
I know, I know. 
But anyways, you know, so we can

660
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,400
move your bedtime from 7:00 to 
7:30 and, you know, that'll be 

661
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,760
some of the privileges that come
with getting older and becoming 

662
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,160
more grown up. 
But, you know, some chores come 

663
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,560
with that too. 
So one of the responsibilities 

664
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,160
that comes with turning 5 is you
have to take the recycling out 

665
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,200
from under the the kitchen sink 
and you take it out to the 

666
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,200
garage and you dump it in the 
recycling bin each day. 

667
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:24,840
So that's your duty at the end 
of the day. 

668
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,480
He was like, yeah, yeah, you 
know, bring it on. 

669
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,840
So that lasted about less than a
week. 

670
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,200
I don't have exact number of 
days, maybe four or five days. 

671
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,800
And he came to us one evening at
about 6:30 PM in just tears just

672
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:43,400
pouring down his face at the 
immense burden that this taking 

673
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,920
the recycling out to the garage 
was, you know, bringing into his

674
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,960
life each day. 
We were like trying not to 

675
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,080
laugh. 
You know, we sat him down and 

676
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,280
just let him talk out how much 
trouble this was, how much 

677
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,720
stress this was, how much, you 
know, 4 year old's language, 5 

678
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:01,120
year old's language on this. 
When he was all done, we were 

679
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,960
like, you know what, we maybe 
made a mistake. 

680
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,160
It's we pushed you too hard. 
We've expected too much from 

681
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,280
you. 
And you know, we apologize for 

682
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,800
having, you know, overestimated 
where you're at. 

683
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,480
And he's like, OK, good, I'm 
being heard. 

684
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,280
I said. 
So you know, we can pull back on

685
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,560
that now. 
Remember with with, with, with 

686
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,520
responsibility comes privileges 
and with privileges comes 

687
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,240
responsibility. 
So happy to take away the 

688
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,120
responsibility for the 
recycling. 

689
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,640
We'll move your bedtime back to 
7:00 PM. 

690
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:34,000
You know, when you're ready, you
come let us know when you feel 

691
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,240
that you're ready to handle 
that. 

692
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:40,600
And he stopped crying. 
And he looked at us with 

693
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,800
suddenly incredibly clear eyes 
and said, well, actually, I 

694
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,400
think I'm OK. 
I, I, I think, I think, let's 

695
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,240
try it a little while longer. 
And we never heard about it ever

696
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:51,120
again. 
But the, the beautiful thing was

697
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,520
I didn't have to be a 
disciplinarian. 

698
00:36:54,040 --> 00:37:00,080
He had a choice and we had a 
similar, I won't go into it to 

699
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,280
embarrass him, but we had a 
similar conversation recently. 

700
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,320
He's home from university right 
now. 

701
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,200
And you know, there was some 
certain things around the house 

702
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,080
that weren't exactly the way, 
you know, until we worked 

703
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,360
through a similar logic. 
It was a different conversation 

704
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,320
with a 21 year old versus a 
versus A5 year old, But it's the

705
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:21,720
same sort of I'm not the boss of
you, I'm your dad and that means

706
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:25,240
I love you and that means I'm 
helping you to become a grown 

707
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:28,040
up, which means I don't teach 
you because I'm annoyed or it's 

708
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,040
inconvenient. 
I teach you because I want to 

709
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,720
help you become a well-rounded 
adult one day. 

710
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,920
And that's good. 
A big part of that. 

711
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,440
If you don't teach someone to 
become a well-rounded adult by 

712
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,960
taking away their agency, a 5 
year old should have agency and 

713
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,800
a 21 year old better have agency
or you've done something 

714
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,840
enormously wrong. 
Yeah, yeah, I know. 

715
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,200
It's that entitlement. 
Like, you should give me all the

716
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,720
things and I should do nothing 
for it. 

717
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:56,720
And that's where we get fuzzy. 
Jesus, I want to go all the way 

718
00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:58,720
back to that. 
Well, Jesus's job is just to 

719
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:02,640
make me happy and keep me, keep 
me, you know, satisfied with all

720
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:03,960
the things of life that are 
good. 

721
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,560
Like, no, that's not at all what
Jesus is for. 

722
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,480
And eat a big that perspective 
shift because Jesus is not a a 

723
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,200
wimp. 
Let me just say that Jesus isn't

724
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,760
he. 
He's not the nice guy. 

725
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,240
And he's like, oh, he's so nice 
and he only wants us to be nice.

726
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:23,560
Nope, that's not Jesus. 
If you think that's Jesus, you 

727
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,640
need to go read some revelations
right now. 

728
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,960
Look at what Jesus is described 
as coming back. 

729
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,680
That's pretty cool. 
Like, and I've seen him in my in

730
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,800
my time with him. 
No, like, no, that's not Jesus. 

731
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,760
He's King of kings and Lord of 
Lords that he's not wimpy and 

732
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,560
it's just amazing to me. 
But I want to hear a little bit 

733
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,720
about your book, something more.
I love this because living well 

734
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:51,560
in a broken world is so hard for
so many of us. 

735
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,480
So again, like broken and joyful
parentheses sometimes. 

736
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,360
Yeah. 
Is this is true? 

737
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,040
We can live well in a broken 
world, not perfectly in a broken

738
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,360
world. 
So can we talk about that? 

739
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,360
Where'd that come from? 
How do you help people in that 

740
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:05,600
book to live? 
Yeah. 

741
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,840
So one of the amazing things is,
first of all, I don't think I 

742
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:15,560
would say 99.9% of, of readers 
of Ecclesiastes in English don't

743
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,640
understand the book because it's
mistranslated. 

744
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:19,920
And that's a pretty bold 
statement. 

745
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,040
So let me let me explain. 
This is going to sound like I'm 

746
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,880
getting way off topic for a 
minute, but I just want to 

747
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,280
establish a little intellectual 
detail that's so important to 

748
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,720
understand. 
It's easy metaphor, you know, if

749
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:34,440
you take yourself back to 
English Class. 

750
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,440
A metaphor is some sort of image
that's not meant to be taken 

751
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,560
literally, but it's to stand for
something. 

752
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,680
So for example, if I said my 
wife has a rose, none of your 

753
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,680
readers will be confused that I 
married a plant. 

754
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,280
You know that the Rose is 
symbolic of something and 

755
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,760
potentially multiple somethings.
So I might mean that she's 

756
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,920
beautiful. 
I might mean that she's got lots

757
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,880
of layers, you know, the petals 
and so on. 

758
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,480
I might mean that she has a few 
thorns. 

759
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,480
The beauty of a metaphor is I 
might mean all of it. 

760
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,760
And, you know, you would read 
the poem in context to 

761
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,800
understand if there's a little 
thorny subtext in there or if 

762
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:19,320
I'm purely talking about visual 
and, you know, scent, beauty. 

763
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,840
So that's a metaphor. 
Ecclesiastes in English starts 

764
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,080
off with the phrase meaningless,
Meaningless. 

765
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:32,680
Everything is meaningless. 
And that's not the word, but 

766
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,920
that word which is translated 
meaningless or in King James 

767
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,800
Version, it's vanity or whatever
is the most used word in the 

768
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,840
entire book. 
It repeats over and over and 

769
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,000
over and over again. 
And because it's a theme of the 

770
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,400
book, everything is meaningless.
Not meaningless. 

771
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,400
The word is breath. 
It's a metaphor. 

772
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:54,120
Breath, breath. 
Everything is breath, utter 

773
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,000
breath. 
And it's a metaphor. 

774
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,640
You're supposed to interpret 
you, the reader, not the 

775
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,160
translator. 
The translator should have 

776
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:09,760
translated that as breath, but 
chose to inter chose to 

777
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,120
interpret it instead of 
translate it and told us that 

778
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,720
the word is meaningless. 
If somebody translated my poem 

779
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:22,880
about my wife being a rose and 
said Daryl's wife is a violin, 

780
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,480
that's a really stupid 
translation because he could say

781
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,960
she's beautiful, she smells 
nicer, she's a bit prickly. 

782
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,360
But you know, though, all those 
are plausibly rose like. 

783
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,720
But violin and roses, no bad 
translation. 

784
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,120
And so I often say to people, 
you know, if you're translating 

785
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,720
breath, breath is a lot of 
things. 

786
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,120
It is never meaningless. 
Like, what is the very first 

787
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,720
person? 
Every parent did. 

788
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,640
They didn't even count fingers 
and toes before they got that 

789
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,400
first breath. 
Breath is essential to life. 

790
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,840
It's fragile, it's repetitive. 
We do it a lot. 

791
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:06,880
It's seems like it's subject to 
our control, but not really for 

792
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,520
very long. 
And if you try to hold your 

793
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,520
breath out of pure anger, 
stubbornness at the concept of 

794
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,840
breathing, and you have more 
willpower than almost anybody 

795
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,280
else on the planet, you will 
just pass out and start 

796
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,160
breathing again. 
It's temporary, you can never 

797
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,800
get enough of it, and you will 
never one day have the best 

798
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,600
breath ever and feel like I 
don't need another one for the 

799
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:37,280
rest of the day I'm good. 
Like everything in life is that 

800
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,960
try to pin it down, good luck, 
try to control it. 

801
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,640
Good luck. 
Try to even with our modern 

802
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,280
understanding of biochemistry 
and physics and whatever else, 

803
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,960
it's still pretty mysterious, 
unless you got like APHD in 

804
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,320
biochemistry or something. 
It's it's a crazy thing and 

805
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,200
everything is that. 
And so the book of Ecclesiastes 

806
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,560
reads very depressing when it 
says everything is meaningless. 

807
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,040
And you tend to like filter 
everything through that because 

808
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,840
he says it over and over again 
when you, when instead you, you 

809
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,080
read it as breath and you start 
translating it as everything is 

810
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,280
temporary, everything is 
fragile, everything is 

811
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,240
important, everything is 
mysterious, everything is 

812
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,560
outside of my control. 
Oh, that's a very different 

813
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,400
book. 
And then he goes on and we, you 

814
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,800
know, we know him to be the king
and we know him to, to have tons

815
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,040
of money and whatever. 
And he experiments trying to 

816
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,480
satisfy the other. 
The other keyword is Euthron, 

817
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,840
lasting benefit. 
He tries to get lasting benefit 

818
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,200
out of life. 
And the conclusions he keeps 

819
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,680
coming to are everything is 
breath. 

820
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:49,600
I am eternally existentially 
hungry and can not be filled, 

821
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:55,480
can not get lasting benefit that
is wired into how God made the 

822
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,120
world. 
And there's a verse that finally

823
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,920
says, and why did he do this? 
So that we would seek him like 

824
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:07,640
we are literally doomed in life 
to a world broken on purpose. 

825
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,240
So that we would always want. 
And that's not just we live in a

826
00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:16,600
fallen world that was in the 
garden of Eden. 

827
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,640
People wanted something more. 
The only reason why the 

828
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:25,160
temptation worked is because 
they weren't satisfied with Eden

829
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:32,480
and they wanted more. 
The the the idea that we are 

830
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:39,400
psychologically wired to never 
be deeply, existentially 

831
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:45,400
satisfied in this life. 
It's a bit disturbing, but it's 

832
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,640
true. 
It's in the Bible, it's in 

833
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,320
psychology, it's in life. 
Nobody ever buys enough stuff or

834
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,400
marries the right person, or 
your kids are never successful 

835
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,800
enough for and anyone who makes 
a mistake of thinking 

836
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,080
creativity, art, sex, drugs, 
rock'n'roll, you know, real 

837
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,640
estate, who thinks they're going
to get there. 

838
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,720
The worst thing that can happen 
to them is to have all their 

839
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:13,040
dreams come true, cuz then they 
really know they're screwed. 

840
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:14,720
Yeah. 
Then there's nothing else, Yeah.

841
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,560
Yeah, and I'm just as empty as 
at the beginning. 

842
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,040
Yeah, that's so good, Darrell. 
I think I've just finally 

843
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,160
started to feel this. 
I love that. 

844
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,920
I can't wait to read your book. 
I have not read it, but I've 

845
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,960
been just enthralled in what 
you're saying, even because over

846
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,680
the last few years, I think 
right, right when I hit 40, I 

847
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,240
started shifting something. 
We started shifting and I 

848
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:41,040
realized fulfillment is just in 
really, there's no way to get it

849
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,720
outside of God. 
Like for me, I can't, I've tried

850
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,040
and nothing fills it. 
Like, you know, when I was 18, 

851
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,280
millions of dollars and a big 
mansion in an indoor pool would 

852
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,600
have done it for me in my brain 
at least. 

853
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,480
And then, OK, now you know this 
or what about that. 

854
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,640
And I, I've not had everything, 
but I feel like now I'm at this 

855
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,040
point in my life where I'm like,
I don't actually even want 

856
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,600
everything. 
I only want to do what I need to

857
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:10,080
do while I'm here because my 
heart yearns for the next 

858
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,600
heaven. 
That's what I want. 

859
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,120
My more is heaven. 
And it sounds a little weird to 

860
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,120
people when they're like, I just
bought this $300 dress and I'm 

861
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,960
like, I don't really care. 
Like I really I think so that's 

862
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:22,880
sad for you. 
Actually. 

863
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,360
I'm sorry that you spent $300 in
a stupid dress because I'm like,

864
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,200
OK, there's people starving 
could have given them money. 

865
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,480
You know, it's what I think. 
I know that's maybe extreme. 

866
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,840
Everybody's fatigue thinking, 
but that's been my thinking. 

867
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,440
And it's almost like what you 
said, like, well, your vacation 

868
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,080
versus what you're dealing with 
to me, I'm almost like, I don't 

869
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,600
mean to sound awful about it, 
but I agree. 

870
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,760
I have kind of come to the IT 
made me depressed actually, 

871
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,560
where I was like, I'm so 
depressed. 

872
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,080
Like I thought that if I got 
this thing when I published my 

873
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,760
book, for instance, I think this
isn't good to hit me. 

874
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,640
I didn't even celebrate it. 
I had a coach, a life coach, and

875
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,040
she asked me what you do to 
celebrate. 

876
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,200
I was like, I never even thought
to celebrate that because who 

877
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,000
cares? 
I'm on to the next thing. 

878
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,360
I myself a moment. 
It's like, So what? 

879
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,240
I'm a. 
Hamster wheel. 

880
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,200
Yeah, it's a hamster wheel. 
Yeah. 

881
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,480
So I'm glad that you wrote this 
because so many people need to 

882
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,520
know that, you know, that breath
is important. 

883
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,640
And it does bring such a 
different perspective to 

884
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,080
Ecclesiastes. 
And I think if he's the wisest 

885
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,600
guy, you know, in the world, 
wisest man I ever lived, he's 

886
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,680
pretty dumb. 
You know, when I read that book,

887
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,120
that's what I think. 
He did all these things. 

888
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,640
Go back to kings. 
He did all these things and, you

889
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,160
know, did all the opposite of 
what God told me. 

890
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,040
And I'm like, okay, this guy was
nuts, but I understand. 

891
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,080
Like if he's the richest guy in 
the world and all we're doing 

892
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,440
is, you know, we're craving 
riches and it's all vanity or 

893
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:44,920
whatever. 
Yeah, breath. 

894
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,440
It's all for nothing when we 
look at it like it is for 

895
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,600
something in the now, but it's 
also it's it's eternal. 

896
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,000
Like what's what are we doing 
now that's going to make a 

897
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,800
lasting imprint for eternity? 
Like storing our treasure in 

898
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:03,200
heaven versus storing it in our 
ray too crammed up full of stuff

899
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,040
houses. 
Yeah, that's where I love. 

900
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,320
And by the way, I speak in in I 
describe a little bit as to how 

901
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,440
Solomon got to finally write 
Ecclesiastes and the kind of the

902
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,880
journey, because you're right, 
he made a big mess of his life, 

903
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,400
but he kind of made a big mess 
of his life on purpose in that 

904
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,840
he wanted to explore partying to
see if that would bill him. 

905
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,040
So he did it for a decade. 
You know, he wanted to see if 

906
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,600
women would solve it. 
And somehow 800 wasn't enough. 

907
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,000
He made it to 1000 and came to 
some conclusions. 

908
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,000
And but what I also love about 
the book is, first of all, he 

909
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,720
does have conclusions in there 
about how to live and, and how 

910
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:42,960
to make sense of the world. 
But he's also incredibly real 

911
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,520
because he looks back on some of
his escapades and he said, you 

912
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:46,680
know, what did I get for all 
that? 

913
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,720
And he says, in there, I had 
fun. 

914
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,160
You know, when you really study 
it, it's kind of alarming. 

915
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:56,200
Like, wait a minute, dude, you 
partied for a decade and cycled 

916
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,160
through women like crazy. 
And your conclusion at the end 

917
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,800
was, hey, I had some fun with 
some of that? 

918
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,040
Like, you're not supposed to say
that in the Bible. 

919
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,000
Like, that might be true, but 
keep it to yourself. 

920
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,440
But then he says, but it wasn't 
enough. 

921
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,280
It just distracted me. 
It didn't fill me and I'm more 

922
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,840
hungry now than when I started. 
And I love that honesty as a 

923
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,160
poker, you know, going back to 
the beginning of our 

924
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,960
conversation rather than the 
fake plastic Christianity that's

925
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,760
all rigid and pretending 
everything's awesome. 

926
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,160
I love the fact that he's like, 
hey, sometimes sin is fun. 

927
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,280
It screws you up. 
But Ecclesiastes is is not 

928
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:31,880
concerned. 
It even says I'm not concerned 

929
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:33,440
about heaven here. 
I only want to talk about life 

930
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,680
under the sun. 
Let's just be super with this 

931
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:36,560
world. 
Practical. 

932
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,280
And even in that context, he's 
saying, you know, sin, sin kind 

933
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,280
of didn't work for me, never 
mind eternal significance. 

934
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,160
Wow, that's so good. 
You all got to pick up this 

935
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:47,320
book. 
Where can people find your 

936
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,640
books, Daryl? 
You can find it anywhere, audio 

937
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,320
ebook, hardcover, softcover, 
Amazon, obviously, but Apple or 

938
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:57,640
order it from your local 
bookstore. 

939
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,000
Or if you want to go to 
darylpotter.com, there's buy 

940
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,280
links there that'll direct you 
to all the resources, even 

941
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,920
library. 
So I I made sure it's available 

942
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,880
in library apps. 
I think libraries, you can get 

943
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,080
audio books now from a lot of 
local libraries, and they're a 

944
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,000
great way to absorb material if 
you're on the run and just want 

945
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,760
to absorb that way. 
That's fantastic. 

946
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,800
I'll put all the links for you 
for ease in the show notes, so 

947
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,080
you can go down there and just 
click those links, find Daryl's 

948
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,920
books, you can find out more 
about Daryl and other shows he 

949
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,440
shared on. 
I'll post a couple of my 

950
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,240
favorite interviews that he's 
been on in the show notes. 

951
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:36,520
I have so thoroughly enjoyed our
conversation here because it is 

952
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,000
very important to talk about 
these things, but I've really, 

953
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,760
really enjoyed your time. 
Thank you for gifting it to us 

954
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,280
because I know that it is so 
precious to your family, so 

955
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,480
thank you. 
Thank you, Catherine, it's been 

956
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,080
a joy talking with you. 
Well, friend, thank you so much 

957
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,960
for listening in today. 
If you love today's episode, if 

958
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,120
today's episode just spoke 
straight to your soul, I would 

959
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,920
love it if you would just take a
minute and rate and review the 

960
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,320
show and share this episode with
a friend that you know needs it 

961
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,080
right now. 
But until next time, I want you 

962
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,120
to remember you are so loved. 
And we'll see you here on the 

963
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:11,680
next one.