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How do you think about yourself,
talk to yourself, care for 

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yourself, and how do you respond
to your own emotions and needs? 

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Hi, my name is Laura and I am 
ADHD AF. 

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I was diagnosed severe combined 
type ADHD four years ago almost 

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to the day and I waited 3 long, 
difficult and dangerous years 

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for NHSADHD assessment and was 
still no closer despite the 

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extreme mental health crisis I 
was in. 

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But a complete fluke gave me the
privilege of access to private 

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ADHD assessment which took the 
weight down from years more to 

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just a few short months. 
ADHD diagnosis and medication 

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not only improved but genuinely 
saved my life and that is not 

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fair. 
When I came to learn about the 

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magnitude of the ADHD diagnosis 
crisis that we are in now even 

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more than we were back then. 
And when I learnt that it's 

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currently believed that one in 
40 of us have ADHD and the 

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opportunity to save potentially 
endangered lives in the UK 

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remains either a post code 
lottery or a paid for privilege 

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few can access whilst we're 
continuously being targeted in 

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the press for hopping on a 
bandwagon to be trendy or 

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scrounge benefits. 
I started making some serious 

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noise here in this space on the 
2nd of May 2022 and I've pretty 

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much not shut up about it since.
And unexpectedly, legends like 

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you actually listened. 
And this led to the creation of 

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a Patreon community of podcast 
listeners where peers supported 

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each other virtually and then in
real life at the three 

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ridiculous UKADHD bingo tours. 
Witnessing the empowerment 

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gained through that in person 
connection at those tours 

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inspired me to found ADHD AF 
Plus Charity which as well as 

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being inspired by the leopard 
print army of listeners of this 

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podcast, it continues to be 
informed by our community's 

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lived experience. 
There is no charity or the Hun 

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that I am. 
I prefer to call it the Chazzer.

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There is no Chazzer like ours. 
ADHDAF Plus Charity is about us,

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by us, for us, and we'd love you
to join us at a monthly peer 

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support group to connect and 
empower ADHD adults have 

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marginalized genders in 
Scotland, England, and as of 

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February 26th, finally, also 
Wales. 

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I will speak more on all of the 
groups at the end of this 

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episode, which admittedly is an 
episode of two halves in which 

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we cover some extremely 
triggering topics in the first 

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half. 
So please go and have a read of 

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the trigger warning in the 
description and the show notes 

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before listening on. 
Because after that, we tackle 

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the focus topic of all of 
February's ADHDAF Plus charity 

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free in person peer support 
groups, ADHD and self 

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relationship. 
And you can find out about the 

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locations and timings of 
February's ADHDF Plus support 

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groups in the show notes, where 
you'll also find a link to our 

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latest blog. 
And to sign up for e-mail 

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reminders for your local group 
and how you can apply to start 

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your own volunteer in another 
way or donate. 

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And there's a link to resources 
for support. 

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So please know that if you are 
struggling, you are not alone. 

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Please reach out. 
I am joined today by a very dear

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friend of mine and of the 
podcast, the charity and ADHDF 

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Emporium, the online and in 
person marketplace which 

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champions neurodivergent makers 
whilst raising awareness and 

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funds for the charity. 
They are literally one of all 

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things ADHDAF greatest 
supporters whilst also being a 

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genuine support me behind the 
scenes. 

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Amongst the many different 
formats of this podcast, 

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literally No2 are the same. 
Once a month I explore the Chaza

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group focus topic with usually 
the facilitators. 

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But alongside the many 
challenges that January can 

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bring, it's been especially 
challenging one for me as I lost

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my mother tragically last 
January. 

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But alongside that, I also need 
some variety, and if you have or

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suspect you might have ADHD, 
then it's highly likely you too 

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are motivated by novelty. 
So I'm mixing it up today and 

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exploring this topic in a very 
different way. 

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But should you wish to hear how 
our groups usually operate, 

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January's episode New Year's 
Same ADHD and SAD is a great 

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example of how the format 
usually works with the Oxford 

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Group facilitators. 
But today I'm going back to 

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owning my too much Ness with a 
slightly more pirate radio 

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chaotic ramble of an episode 
with a dear friend who also came

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here to raise hell and ADHD 
awareness. 

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I I that once again. 
I know, thank you. 

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I'm very excited to be. 
It's just a nice excuse to have 

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a chat. 
It really is. 

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Especially when it's about 
something really traumatic, we 

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we do it well. 
We do extremes so well, we go 

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high, we go low and everything 
in between and we always have a 

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giggle no matter how traumatic. 
Would you please introduce 

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yourself properly? 
I'm John Awareness razor stigma 

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squisher. 
Yes, all of those things up 

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until about what 6 weeks ago now
was self realized ADHD and 

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autistic. 
I've now discovered as time's 

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kind of gone on as a six weeks 
ago written down proper real 

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ADHD person. 
Amazing. 

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Congratulations. 
You've done it. 

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So it's so amazing that we've 
been along on the Safari with 

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you on your podcast, Audio HD or
just a bit weird. 

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Self diagnosis is valid. 
And in this time where you could

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be waiting the best part of a 
decade for assessment, if at 

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all, that's really important 
that people know that self 

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diagnosis is valid. 
But now you have really 

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documented your experience 
through that process. 

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I hope that people have, if 
they've been going through a 

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similar thing, gained something 
from from listening to it and 

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have felt slightly more 
validated, because it's really 

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fucking difficult to get the 
validation. 100% and I have 

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absolutely loved listening to 
podcast. 

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I've also been lucky to be on 
your podcast. 

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I think is it three times 
because the first one was a 2 

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parter so I've been. 
On three to shut the fuck up, 

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Did I? 
Neither of us ever do. 

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I'm attacked. 
Sorry. 

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I think I've actually been on 
quite a lot of podcasts. 

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I've just realised I think it's 
about 25 and I've got more 

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coming up this year, so I've 
actually made a little playlist 

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of all the episodes that I've 
been on so that I can sign a. 

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Great all. 
Of these amazing, yeah, a 

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greatest hits, but it's so that 
I can say go and listen to all 

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of these amazing podcasts. 
So I will put a link in the show

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notes to that. 
I would love to start this what 

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is likely to be absolute chaos, 
organised chaos in the same way 

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that we do the charity peer 
support groups with a non cheesy

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icebreaker. 
The shame eradication game. 

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What is the most ADHD thing 
you've done this week? 

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We went on holiday for a few 
days to Stratford and Avon which

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was really lovely and I needed 
to take a new charging cable so 

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I went out. 
I got as far as choosing and 

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buying the new charging cable. 
Stunning. 

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Got home rather than then 
putting it directly in the bag 

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to go. 
Decided I didn't want to forget 

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it, so I'd pop it on the side in
the kitchen so you know where 

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that stayed for the entire time 
you were away. 

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But it's OK because when I got 
home I was like, Oh yeah, I 

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forgot. 
Forgot I'd even bought the 

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fucking cable. 
So there we go. 

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Yet I still doubted up until six
weeks ago that I had it. 

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Oh, I love it. 
Life is so different now. 

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Everything I do is so different 
now. 

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Since getting this validation, 
I'm not even joking. 

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It's been the biggest game 
changer of my life. 

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How? 
Do you mean? 

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When I fuck up, yes, with the 
various things like that that 

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would have sent me spiralling 
before and I would have felt 

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like completely worth this piece
of shit. 

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You can't even remember to take 
a fucking cable that you just 

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bought on holiday and instead it
was that I laughed. 

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Good SO. 
So many. 

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So good, that is so good to 
hear. 

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And mine is alongside keeping 
you waiting for an hour to 

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record this episode, which I 
don't like doing. 

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But the truth is we have been 
talking about this episode for 

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actual months, haven't we? 
It's been months and it's all 

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been planned in my mind. 
And then for some reason this 

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morning I sat there and I was 
like, actually, I do want to put

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a bit more structure in this 
because it's really important we

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cover these points. 
And then, as ever, the 

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inspiration didn't flow until 
literally the deadline was 

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breathing down my neck. 
And I was like, I don't know, 

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can you just wait some more 
minutes? 

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I love that you're like for some
reason. 

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Do you think that reason might 
be because you're great? 

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I think it. 
Might be the deadline breathing 

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down my neck is when I do the 
best work. 

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So thanks for your patience. 
My other one, and this it might 

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stray into the realms of of too 
much information, is about hyper

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vigilance. 
My husband started working for 

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periods abroad in sort of the 
middle of last year and it's 

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been a real learning process 
getting to grips with him being 

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away. 
I think we're we've been 

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together about nine years and we
are still absolutely revoltingly

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in love and we really do live. 
In Yeah. 

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We really do live in each 
other's pockets, particularly 

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during the pandemic and post 
pandemic world. 

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We we are very, very close and 
what it's meant in him going 

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away. 
I've had to learn how to care 

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for myself, cook for myself, 
when normally I'd be like just 

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sort of, I don't like the word 
pandering, but you know, like 

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acknowledging that he would be 
hungry more times in a day than 

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I would, Acknowledging way 
easier that he likes to do 

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feeding him than feeding myself 
and making decisions based on, 

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you know, his needs on top of 
mine or before mine rather. 

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And so it's been a real, real 
learning process. 

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But what I have noticed is that 
when he comes back, it's like I 

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have literally been bracing 
myself. 

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From the minute he has left this
house, I am bracing myself. 

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It is a process of complete and 
utter hyper vigilance. 

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I am afraid I don't trust 
myself. 

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I never lose keys. 
But for some reason I'm 

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convinced I'm going to lose the 
key to our house while he's 

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away. 
I'm convinced I'm going to leave

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the straighteners on. 
I'm convinced that I haven't 

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locked the door. 
I go back, I double check. 

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I triple check. 
I am this absolute ball of hyper

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vigilance. 
When it gets to the last few 

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days before he gets home, I 
start to realize how exhausted I

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am because it is a lot of work 
all the time to be thinking 

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that. 
Well, you're basically second 

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guessing and doubting yourself 
the entire time. 

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And so by the time he gets in 
the door, I'm absolutely 

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exhausted and in the whatever, 
it's been week or so 10 days 

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since he's been home. 
I've slept more in that 10 days 

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than I have done in the entire 4
weeks he's been away. 

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And this is where it gets into 
TMI. 

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I go to the toilet more when he 
gets home. 

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It's like, it's like I've 
literally been bracing myself. 

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I'm like for four weeks. 
Because she's relaxed. 

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No, it's a thing. 
It's such a thing. 

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I get you. 
Yeah. 

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It's nice that it shows that you
still feel relaxed and you still

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love him. 
Totally, totally, totally. 

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And it's weird because it's not 
like he does everything for me. 

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So it's not like it's not that. 
It's just. 

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00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,800
No, but it's not about. 
It's about self trust and that 

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is part of self relationship. 
So Lay discovered ADHD often 

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leads to self doubt. 
You stop trusting your 

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intentions or follow through 
self abandonment, ignoring your 

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needs to compensate or mask 
people pleasing or as Megan Birx

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very wisely calls it, 
peacekeeping over correcting to 

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avoid criticism and then in turn
burnout cycles pushing, crashing

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and self blame. 
So after a lifetime of being 

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what our wonderful friend Nicole
Nadler calls the unreliable 

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narrator of our own lives, in 
finally identifying that our 

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struggles are due to ADHD, it is
essential that we start to build

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on that self trust. 
It's four years in since 

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diagnosis, literally. 
I know that the work, thank you.

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The work here is in building 
that self trust. 

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It's essential. 
But four years in, it's still 

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easier said than done. 
So with so many ADHD as having 

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experienced personal 
relationship abuse, 

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manipulation, violence and 
isolation, it's very common for 

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us to have experienced those 
things. 

228
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,400
At the charity in this month of 
February where everyone is 

229
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,440
focusing on romantic 
relationships, we are literally 

230
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,120
telling Cupid to do 1 and 
focusing on the most important 

231
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,360
relationship of all. 
In both your previous interview 

232
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,120
and our private conversations, 
we have discussed we've gone 

233
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,440
deep as we always do and 
discussed traumatic experience 

234
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,280
that we've both endured. 
And you know, we don't want to 

235
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,040
say romantic relationships, but 
intimate relationships or in 

236
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,240
pursuit of such. 
And this led me to deep dive 

237
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:48,080
into exploring the relationship 
between that and ADHD. 

238
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,040
Late discovered ADHD can 
increase vulnerability to 

239
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,880
abusive romantic relationships, 
intimate partner violence, 

240
00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:01,320
sexual coercion and date rape. 
Prolonged difficulty recognizing

241
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,600
or leaving harmful dynamic 
dynamics. 

242
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,400
We've both experienced similar. 
Likely you listening, you have 

243
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,680
to and we're really sorry for 
that. 

244
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,520
But this is not because of 
weakness or poor judgement. 

245
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:23,000
It is because ADHD impacts 
attention, emotional processing,

246
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,840
memories, boundaries as we've 
said, self trust and power 

247
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,560
dynamics in ways that leave us 
vulnerable to exploitation. 

248
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,320
Is this something you want to 
talk about? 

249
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,880
Oh, it's something we should 
talk about, isn't it? 

250
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,120
Poor judgement. 
That was the one that really 

251
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,840
bizarrely stood out for me 
there, because that's in my 

252
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,200
situation. 
How I felt was that again, it 

253
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:50,920
was my fault. 
Yes. 

254
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,120
And it was a poor judgement 
call. 

255
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,400
And I was early 20s and I'm. 
Now. 

256
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,920
So last week, yeah. 
Last week. 

257
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,200
Thank you. 
Obviously. 

258
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,200
And so, yeah, it was. 
So it was a long time ago and I 

259
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,800
was, do you know what I think is
that we are kind of delayed with

260
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,400
a lot of things and my street 
smarts didn't kick in for quite 

261
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,000
some time. 
Honestly, I didn't even know I 

262
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,760
was in the room until I was 23. 
No exaggeration, I was. 

263
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,080
Seriously, what's happening now?
Oh, actually, I'm in charge of 

264
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,600
this meat suit, am I? 
Oh, OK. 

265
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:33,600
Everyone on face value, 
everybody on face value, I, I 

266
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,520
didn't look any deeper into 
anything. 

267
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,560
And also after kind of at that 
point a lifetime of being told 

268
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,120
that I was weird and not being 
accepted, anybody who would 

269
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,840
accept me, I would just think 
was an amazing person. 

270
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,400
Like they they accept me. 
Let's go dad, blindly follow. 

271
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,440
Like even if my intuition 
occasionally did kick in and go 

272
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,280
sounds like a dangerous 
situation or a bad idea, I'd be 

273
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,120
like that. 
But also, didn't you flip that 

274
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:02,960
back onto? 
You better. 

275
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,880
Yeah, they must know better 
than. 

276
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,480
I would have constant low lying 
anxiety in these situations, 

277
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,160
yes, but I would again blame 
that on me. 

278
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:12,960
Yes, Why you're? 
Inactive, they'd be so 

279
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,200
ridiculous. 
Yes, they seem like a lovely 

280
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,440
person. 
You're being stupid. 

281
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,000
Get on with it. 
And, and then that got me in a 

282
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,720
really horrific situation and it
was dealt with very differently 

283
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,760
because it was nearly 20 years 
ago and things were not as they 

284
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,600
are now. 
And also to be assigned male at 

285
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:34,400
birth, that just made it even 
more of a, A level with that 

286
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,440
happening. 
Mine was a situation where I had

287
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,720
met somebody online. 
We'd had a couple of brief 

288
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,680
interactions. 
He was local. 

289
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,200
I happened to be going to a 
local event, mentioned I was 

290
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,280
going. 
And then of course, he 

291
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,040
conveniently turned up at the 
local event and was like, Oh my 

292
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,600
God. 
And even though I told him I was

293
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,080
going, this still was like a, Oh
my God, that's oh, wow. 

294
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,240
Chat, chat, chat. 
Yeah, great. 

295
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,640
And I had one drink. 
After that one drink, things 

296
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,520
were very different and very 
peculiar. 

297
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,960
And looking back now, that was 
definitely there was something 

298
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,440
in that drink. 
And it went on from there. 

299
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,000
The situation happened. 
So obviously he'd he'd drugged 

300
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,119
the drink and he took advantage 
of that. 

301
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:18,119
He was very much the kind of 
person who was charismatic, very

302
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,000
coercive. 
He didn't then so I had my own 

303
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,560
flat. 
At this point I woke up with 

304
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,040
very little recollection of what
had happened the previous night 

305
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,920
and he got me to drive him to 
the station. 

306
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:35,240
He stayed and kind of told me 
try to change the narrative. 

307
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,720
Guess are. 
You into believing. 

308
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,240
What? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 

309
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,800
absolutely. 
I put it all on me, so it wasn't

310
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,280
like I had a full memory of 
every moment that had happened. 

311
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,800
I had flashbacks of certain 
moments which were all 

312
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,240
incredibly hazy. 
When I understood what had 

313
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,200
happened, I did say something, 
but I was told at that point 

314
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,120
that as it was longer than 24 
hours, not much longer than 24 

315
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,400
hours, I would say it was only a
few days. 

316
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,200
I hid in my flat for a few days 
and tried to comprehend what had

317
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,680
happened because it was just 
like I was very confused and had

318
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,320
someone come round from her rape
support. 

319
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,760
Yeah. 
And and basically told me that 

320
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,760
because it had been longer than 
24 hours, there was nothing 

321
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,960
negative about it that never 
leaves you and his face and his 

322
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,640
name. 
I have never experienced that. 

323
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,240
I've never been drugged, but I 
have been very much taken 

324
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,560
advantage of by seemingly the 
nice guys. 

325
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,440
I think the thing that I found, 
or when we talked about it 

326
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,720
privately, was we both sort of 
shared as well that the Me Too 

327
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,800
movement kind of gave us an 
understanding and language that 

328
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,920
we hadn't really had before. 
I'm talking about things that 

329
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:58,640
happened, yeah, 25 years ago, 
and I had a very limited and 

330
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,480
very black and white 
understanding. 

331
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,520
I was brought up Catholic. 
I carried a lot of kill and 

332
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,640
shame anyway. 
Like you know, I really blamed 

333
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,480
myself for the situations that I
got myself in. 

334
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,560
Still that language that I'm 
using there. 

335
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:18,160
And I ended up in 2 
relationships back-to-back in my

336
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,440
late teens that were which in 
which I experienced intimate 

337
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,840
partner violence. 
And it's strange because even at

338
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,400
the time or very soon 
afterwards, I would think to 

339
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,440
myself, I would second guess 
myself wasn't that bad. 

340
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,240
Yeah. 
That's not really what happened,

341
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,520
is it? 
Up. 

342
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,360
Did that, did that really 
happen? 

343
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,960
It took me, yeah, until whatever
year the Me Too movement was to 

344
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,760
go, Oh my God, that's what that 
was. 

345
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,280
Yeah. 
That's what that happened. 

346
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,880
It's not just this awful thing 
that can happen to you. 

347
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:51,960
There are so many different. 
But with that situation as well,

348
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,360
you've got lots of lovely 
memories with that person. 

349
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:58,440
So that's the way that we really
ourselves, our brains are saying

350
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,680
no. 
But look, he does this. 

351
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,920
He's. 
Bought your present. 

352
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,560
That's normally one, yeah. 
Or he took you out or he did 

353
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,560
something, something else that 
was lovely. 

354
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:08,840
Yeah. 
He does care, yeah. 

355
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,560
Yeah. 
Awful. 

356
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,000
I'm so sorry that you went 
through that. 

357
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,200
No. 
Well, that's the thing and and 

358
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,240
we're both sorry to you 
listening because it's highly 

359
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,040
likely that you've experienced 
similar. 

360
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:25,480
It has added another layer now 
understanding about ADHD, Yeah, 

361
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,240
another thing that I've had to 
process on top of it, but also 

362
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:34,880
has again made it one of those 
oh, moments which we all have so

363
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,000
many off post diagnosis where 
it's like, oh, I was vulnerable.

364
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,000
I actually really like the way 
that you just said, oh, because 

365
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:47,680
you could have interpreted If 
you're watching on Spotify, 

366
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,000
you'll have seen. 
But if not, the way that you 

367
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,440
said that I felt it on multiple 
levels. 

368
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,160
And what what it means to me is 
that you can interpret this many

369
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,920
ways because much like when we 
get our diagnosis or we figure 

370
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,720
out how something is linked to 
the condition, we go, oh, oh, 

371
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,520
OK, well, that makes sense. 
And then there's like, oh, hang 

372
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,520
on a fucking minute, That's not 
all right. 

373
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,880
And I do feel for both of us on 
many levels and in many 

374
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,360
different ways. 
And I think most people that 

375
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:21,040
advocate using our lived 
experiences in the way that we 

376
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,640
do is there's a fucking score to
settle that will never, ever, 

377
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,080
ever be settled. 
But actually what we're trying 

378
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:36,040
to do is to to validate the 
experience of others live cast 

379
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,600
and hope that we can push for 
this awareness and systemic 

380
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,960
change that will prevent similar
happening to future generations.

381
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,000
Yeah, 100%. 
If we can't change it for us, 

382
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,880
then maybe we can change it for 
somebody else. 

383
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,840
But vulnerability, use the word 
vulnerability. 

384
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,320
So there are some key mechanisms
in this that create this 

385
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,400
vulnerability. 
So first of all, we've got 

386
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,400
chronic self doubt and 
gaslighting susceptibility. 

387
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,640
So undiagnosed ADHD often means 
a lifetime of either being 

388
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,320
criticized externally and in 
turn internally. 

389
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,680
You're too sensitive, you 
overreact or you're forgetful. 

390
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,720
You're over dramatizing this or 
your account of what has 

391
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,040
occurred is and reliable. 
And again, we say that both 

392
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,520
ways. 
So you've got the 20,000 

393
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,840
estimated extra negative things 
and you're a divergent child 

394
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,840
here is before the age of 10. 
And what that does is it leads 

395
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,920
us to be self critical and to 
self doubt and and not trust 

396
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,400
ourselves trusting others over 
ourselves. 

397
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,520
So by adulthood many ADHD is 
internalized. 

398
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,480
I'm probably wrong and ADHD 
brain trained to doubt itself is

399
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,560
more likely to to believe others
over themselves. 

400
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,520
Again, we've got delayed threat 
recognition, or as I always say,

401
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,680
that lack of risk perception 
with an added delay. 

402
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,480
So ADHD impacts pattern 
recognition. 

403
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,320
We can often not recognize 
repeated behavior. 

404
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,000
We'll see that this is something
that happens again and again. 

405
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,120
It impacts our working memory. 
We don't notice things, 

406
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:21,080
particularly if they're 
happening slowly. 

407
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,120
You know that awful analogy of a
frog or whatever it is in? 

408
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:27,240
Boiling, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

409
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,400
Yeah, abuse often escalates 
gradually, not all at once. 

410
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,640
So the water isn't on boiling 
heart straight away. 

411
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,120
It's heating up over time. 
Emotional dysregulation added 

412
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,920
with trauma bonding. 
Now trauma bonding is one of 

413
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,000
those words that gets thrown 
around a lot. 

414
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,200
I would like to stay again for 
the people at the back. 

415
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,040
I'm not a doctor, therapist or 
coach. 

416
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,760
I'm not a psychiatrist, 
psychologist or otherwise, I'm 

417
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,600
only speaking through lived 
experience. 

418
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,680
So I I try not to throw around 
terms like trauma bonding. 

419
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:05,400
But ADHD intensifies emotions so
our highs can feel truly 

420
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,320
euphoric and our lows can feel 
truly catastrophic and abusive 

421
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,120
relationships can thrive on this
cycle. 

422
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:18,080
So intensity leading to harm. 
Then we've got an apology, which

423
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,600
leads to relief and this can 
form the attachment. 

424
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,400
For someone with ADHD, the 
dopamine spikes of 

425
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,240
reconciliation can be especially
binding and this strengthens 

426
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,080
that trauma bond and makes 
leaving feel physically 

427
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,120
unbearable to some people. 
Pleasing or as we prefer to call

428
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,480
it, peacekeeping as a survival 
mechanism. 

429
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,200
Many late diagnosed ADHD adults 
learned very early that 

430
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:54,360
compliance means safety. 
Being easy, easygoing makes us 

431
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:59,400
acceptable, more palatable, 
whereas saying no and having 

432
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,360
boundaries can cause conflict. 
And this directly intersects 

433
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:09,400
with sexual coercion, our 
inability to assert boundaries, 

434
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,880
and freezing instead of 
resisting, which is still 

435
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,040
absolutely non consent by the 
fucking way. 

436
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:24,360
So on that note, I want to also 
say that freezing is extremely 

437
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,120
common and not in any way a 
failure. 

438
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,400
Executive dysfunction and escape
barriers. 

439
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,160
Leaving, say, if you were in an 
abusive relationship, Leaving 

440
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,640
requires planning, often 
paperwork. 

441
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,200
If you're in an in a marriage or
or cohabiting with somebody, 

442
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,640
paperwork, logistics and 
following through under stress. 

443
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,080
And we know that stress also 
exacerbates our ADHD symptoms. 

444
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,120
So round and round and round we 
go. 

445
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,840
Stuck in in a loop. 
I will shut up in a minute and 

446
00:25:58,840 --> 00:25:59,960
let you talk. 
I'm sorry. 

447
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,920
Makes these harder even without 
trauma and fear, shame or 

448
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,320
financial control. 
And the barrier skyrockets. 

449
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,600
This explains why many survivors
of abuse say, I know it was bad,

450
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,880
but I just couldn't make myself 
leave. 

451
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,240
And if that sounds familiar to 
you, that is neurology. 

452
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,680
That is not failure. 
That is not something that any 

453
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,880
of us need to carry. 
A late diagnosis is delayed 

454
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,880
narrative correction with an 
ADHD framework like you've just 

455
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,760
explained, we can break that. 
What's the word I'm looking for?

456
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,520
We can go from feelings of I 
messed up. 

457
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,080
This is my fault. 
I'm holding this exactly what 

458
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:50,440
you experienced into. 
This is why you know, and that 

459
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,040
is the most powerful thing. 
After diagnosis, many of us 

460
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,280
experienced reef and anger. 
If I'd known sooner, I would 

461
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,480
have protected myself. 
And that realization can be 

462
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:07,720
destabilizing but also 
validating again that O that you

463
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,480
shared what you experienced and 
I'm really grateful to you for 

464
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,680
sharing that. 
ADHD is associated with higher 

465
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,800
rate of substance use, 
vulnerability, disassociation 

466
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:26,040
and distress, freezing 
responses, and impaired risk 

467
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,560
assessment, particularly under 
novelty or pressure. 

468
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,400
But none, none of that equals 
consent. 

469
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,480
None of it reduces the 
responsibility of the 

470
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,080
perpetrator. 
And being confused, overwhelmed,

471
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:48,280
frozen, intoxicated, either by 
choice or not, does not equal 

472
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,600
compliance. 
It is not. 

473
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,280
It is not consent and many ADHD 
survivors don't label 

474
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:59,440
experiences as assault until 
years later and often post 

475
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,440
diagnosis. 
What has helped you? 

476
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,560
Meeting other people, hearing 
their experiences. 

477
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,240
Knowing that you're not alone. 
Yeah, it is. 

478
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,120
It's such, it's such a basic 
thing, isn't it? 

479
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,960
And it and it covers so many 
things of being late diagnosed 

480
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,240
is knowing you're not alone 
because you've grown up your 

481
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,080
entire life thinking that you're
alone and also thinking. 

482
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,000
You're the only person. 
You're the alien. 

483
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:24,960
You're the. 
And you're the one who's wrong 

484
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,160
and it's all, you know, 
everything is negative around 

485
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,560
it. 
And you start to meet more and 

486
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,680
more people that actually have 
had a horrific and it is 

487
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,520
horrific. 
So many of these things. 

488
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,720
I've talked about it so much, 
the beginning of the of of my 

489
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,880
podcast about that self loathing
was a word that I used every 

490
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,120
fucking episode for the longest 
time. 

491
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,160
Yeah, because it's how I felt. 
And to share that and to share 

492
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,600
these moments with each other, 
it does. 

493
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,360
It does create an incredibly 
strong bond. 

494
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,480
I think a word that I haven't 
mentioned yet, even though I've 

495
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,120
said all of the words, because 
I'm like, I've got like a, what 

496
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,040
do you call it? 
Not a beer, my bonnet, but like 

497
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,280
I'm so into this right now. 
I've said a lot of words, but 

498
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,480
can you forgive yourself for 
even blaming yourself for 

499
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,080
something that absolutely was 
not your fault? 

500
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,120
Do you know what I mean? 
So, for example, right, I look 

501
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,080
back one particular situation, 
the first situation, and I 

502
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,200
remember I woke up the next day 
and I could not stop crying and 

503
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,360
I couldn't even find the words 
to explain what had happened. 

504
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,320
It wasn't just that I couldn't 
make sense of what I've had, 

505
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,120
what had happened, that was 
absolutely true. 

506
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,680
But also, it was the fact that 
it had happened at a party, the 

507
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,280
fact that I was 17, I shouldn't 
really have been there. 

508
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,080
Like, should I really have be in
this serious relationship with 

509
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,520
somebody who's a bit older than 
me? 

510
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,960
Like, who could I tell? 
Like I was doing something 

511
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,560
shameful? 
And so then I couldn't even 

512
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,120
allow myself on any level to say
this is what happened and where 

513
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,520
because I really felt the 
responsibility lay with me that 

514
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,240
I should not have been there. 
Is my fault. 

515
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,240
Yeah. 
Yeah, it wasn't. 

516
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,400
We now know that Yeah. 
Like and it's so it's so 

517
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,200
important to kind of like trawl 
through that shit, even though 

518
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,000
it is fucking horrible to do it 
really shit to allow yourself 

519
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,040
self forgiveness is is so 
difficult. 

520
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,960
Yeah. 
To to break the pattern that 

521
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,840
we've been conditioned to 
believe about ourselves. 

522
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,440
Yeah, our entire lives. 
Talk to me about. 

523
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,360
Therapy. 
I love therapy. 

524
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,120
It was almost like body 
doubling. 

525
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:25,960
I didn't need him to say 
anything. 

526
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,480
Yeah. 
I needed to walk into this room,

527
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,960
offload everything because I 
needed to process it. 

528
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,800
And I think an amazing thing 
with therapy is to say something

529
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,560
out loud can really help you to 
just process in your brain to 

530
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,200
actually hear it rather than 
ruminate on it. 

531
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,160
To hear it, the words coming out
of your mouth can for me, 

532
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,160
really, really help me process 
it. 

533
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,280
And so to be in that situation 
where I was in a room with 

534
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,800
somebody where I could just say 
how I felt, what had happened, 

535
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,120
to start to try and reframe it 
for myself. 

536
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,280
So I think therapy with the 
right person in the right 

537
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,880
situation, I think can be 
amazing. 

538
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,480
But you said? 
About body doubling, that's so 

539
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,560
interesting again. 
I don't want them to say 

540
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,120
anything that. 
Release is just like, right? 

541
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,160
I'm I'm here and I can, I can. 
What I would say is I don't 

542
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:18,280
think sometimes it's correct for
a therapist to tell you stuff. 

543
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,320
And I have seen that with a 
couple of other people who on 

544
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,400
your Divergent who've been there
and then have come away almost 

545
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,000
feeling worse about themselves. 
Yeah, because they've been told,

546
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,040
Oh no, I should have done this. 
And I no you should be able to 

547
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,080
offload on this person and work 
it out what you. 

548
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,600
Need. 
Well, yeah, so ADHD informed 

549
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,120
trauma therapy, yeah. 
However, what we also always 

550
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,120
have to acknowledge is that that
tends to be a paid for privilege

551
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,680
because of the dreadful state of
the NHS. 

552
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:54,160
So I know that I have been on a 
list to get therapy for years. 

553
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,880
Cool, how's that going for you? 
Yeah, no years. 

554
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,080
Nothing. 
Nothing at all. 

555
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:03,000
So I do pay for therapy, which 
is a privilege that not all can 

556
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,920
afford. 
And I can only just to be honest

557
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,720
with you. 
But what we can do in a 

558
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,840
situation where people cannot 
afford to go to therapy, we can 

559
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,760
journal, we can externalize 
those experiences, whether 

560
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,040
that's writing things down to 
chronologically get them right 

561
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,840
in your mind of did this, you 
know how this happened, 

562
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,480
acknowledge that that happened. 
We can also figure out our 

563
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,080
thoughts and feelings that way. 
So not just the timeline, you 

564
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,720
know, really checking in with 
ourselves and externally saying 

565
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,120
it to safe people, but that's 
where we have to be careful as 

566
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,440
well. 
Not just safe in terms of do we 

567
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:47,480
feel safe, but always checking 
if a person has the capacity to 

568
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,720
hold the information that you 
are sharing with them. 

569
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,520
Because again, it can be 
triggering to others to just 

570
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,680
share experiences. 
And just because somebody is 

571
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,720
able to listen to your 
experience at a particular time 

572
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,560
doesn't mean that that person 
has the capacity to dive into 

573
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,600
that topic at all times, on a 
whim, whenever you feel that you

574
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,560
need to. 
Back in the day before I 

575
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,160
understood the amount of times I
would just completely offload on

576
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,000
someone and then leave them 
thinking hey fuck have I just 

577
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,320
massively traumatized someone? 
I have learned. 

578
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,440
Yeah. 
To to to pick people wisely. 

579
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,800
And also, you know, if somebody 
doesn't have the capacity to 

580
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:32,680
speak on something traumatic, it
doesn't mean just to get the the

581
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,600
really shit daydreams, the 
rejection sensitive dysphoria 

582
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,240
obey. 
It doesn't mean they're 

583
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,400
rejecting you. 
It doesn't mean no forever. 

584
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,840
It just means no one that day 
for any number of reasons could 

585
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,200
be work related. 
They could have their own 

586
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,920
traumas going on. 
Somebody who cares about you 

587
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,720
cares about you always. 
It just maybe isn't the right 

588
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,120
time for them on that day to. 
Speak about something. 

589
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,520
In the Patreon community, we 
have a Triggering Topics Discord

590
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,760
channel. 
That's where triggering topics 

591
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,440
are allowed to go, but they 
always have to start with the 

592
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,360
bigger warning. 
And it is always so that people 

593
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,000
can decide for themselves 
whether they have the capacity 

594
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:14,239
then or ever to read that. 
And all of the channels have 

595
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:19,320
signposting to all the support 
so that people can say this is 

596
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,080
where you need to go to actually
speak to somebody who is trained

597
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,000
in this, who can support you, 
who can, you know, hold you in 

598
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,120
that way. 
And again, those resources for 

599
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,159
support are in the show notes. 
Just to reiterate that now self 

600
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:38,760
partnership, choosing to center 
yourself rather than a romantic 

601
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,920
partner where the temporary or 
long term shows up 

602
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,400
disproportionately often among 
adults with ADHD, especially 

603
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,560
those diagnosed later. 
Relational burnout after chronic

604
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,560
mis attunement. 
Which is really just a fancy way

605
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,000
of saying a lot of people have 
had enough of other people's 

606
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,080
shit and they want to be self 
partnered. 

607
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,760
And I just my capture them also,
like we've said before, when 

608
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,920
we're figuring out who we 
actually are, now that we have 

609
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,200
all of the information, there is
a process of trying to set 

610
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,240
boundaries. 
And actually whilst we're 

611
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:15,400
figuring out what we actually 
want, like you've said, what 

612
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,040
what do you actually want to do 
with your time? 

613
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,320
What actually sits right? 
Rather than people pleasing or 

614
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,680
peacekeeping, you need to figure
out those boundaries. 

615
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,200
It's totally understandable that
people wouldn't want to be in a 

616
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,480
relationship with somebody else 
whilst they're figuring out what

617
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,320
they would actually want that to
look like. 

618
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,440
After diagnosis people often 
stop masking or at least try to 

619
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,680
start to unmask. 
I don't know about that. 

620
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,240
I've put stop over explaining. 
But again, no, that's something 

621
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:44,320
I never do. 
No, Stop tolerating. 

622
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,440
I can make it longer. 
Yeah, stop tolerating ambiguity 

623
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,080
that cost them peace. 
We try to stop abandoning 

624
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,160
ourselves because it doesn't 
give us peace to people. 

625
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,840
Please. 
In the long run, it can harm us 

626
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,560
more if we're still saying yes 
to. 

627
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,120
Things it makes me more anxious 
if I don't believe it. 

628
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,360
I, which I generally don't. 
I won't believe that I have 

629
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,560
people pleased enough. 
I've got such a thing with that.

630
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,760
I can't be happy until everyone 
else is happy. 

631
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,640
Yeah. 
I also won't ever believe that 

632
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,160
I've made everyone else happy. 
Yeah. 

633
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:16,200
So that's something to reframe. 
You know, we talked about that 

634
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,280
like the dopamine spikes, 
particularly in abusive 

635
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,640
relationships, seeing it for 
what it is because as we know, 

636
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,760
romantic intensity can mimic 
dopamine regulation once ADHD is

637
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,320
understood and hopefully better 
supported. 

638
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:36,160
Now we know that the waiting 
list is long and not everybody 

639
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,200
can take medication. 
The few that are lucky enough to

640
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,240
be offered the option if they 
want it. 

641
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,720
And it works differently for 
different people because of the 

642
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,800
different ice cream flavors that
we all are and sprinkles on top.

643
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,120
What will work for one won't 
work for other. 

644
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,280
So people start to notice when 
they are in theory better 

645
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,160
supported with ADHD, better 
managed ADHD, in theory you 

646
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,800
start to notice all of this 
stuff and really really get to 

647
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,560
grips with what dysregulates 
you. 

648
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,560
So self partnership often 
coincides with learning to 

649
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,400
source stimulation without 
relational volatility. 

650
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,760
So repairing self trust after 
gaslighting. 

651
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,400
Research directly using the term
self partnership is limited 

652
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,160
because it's more cultural than 
it is clinical. 

653
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:32,880
But ADHD studies consistently 
show that people with ADHD have 

654
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:38,200
higher rates of relationship 
dissatisfaction, higher breakup 

655
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,600
and divorce rates, higher 
periods of voluntary self 

656
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,440
partnership after diagnosis. 
Many providers now see 

657
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,600
intentional self partnership as 
a common post diagnosis phase. 

658
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,080
That's interesting, isn't it? 
All of that has just shown me 

659
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:02,400
what a poster child I am. 
Many brief, intense 

660
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,320
relationships. 
Serial monogamist should be 

661
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,720
divorced. 
Couldn't do the paperwork. 

662
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:09,920
Split up years ago. 
No comment. 

663
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:18,040
Yeah. 
All right, but it's, but it is 

664
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,040
such a thing, isn't it? 
And I, you know, I only got 

665
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,480
together with Liam when I did 
get to that period of time where

666
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,040
I where I broke. 
What's the word I'm looking for?

667
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:30,920
It's not a habit really. 
I mean literally the all. 

668
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,240
The relationship. 
Cycle. 

669
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:33,640
Thank you. 
Cycle. 

670
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,400
Yeah. 
Of these unhealthy 

671
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,280
relationships. 
They were very intense, very, 

672
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,800
very quickly. 
And yourself worth, I would 

673
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,360
imagine, relying on pleasing 
them, being faithful to them, 

674
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,760
them fancying you, desiring you,
whatever. 

675
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,880
Oh yeah, when you absolutely 
hate yourself at the same time, 

676
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,040
very difficult to then. 
Yes. 

677
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:56,880
Oh, it's just, it's very messed 
up. 

678
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,640
And then decided that I, I did, 
I actively did not want to be in

679
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,000
a relationship. 
And then I started to learn what

680
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,520
I liked because I didn't know 
anymore. 

681
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,560
I hadn't got a fucking clue, 
didn't know what I wanted to 

682
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,080
watch on the TV because I was 
people pleased and watched 

683
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,720
whatever wanted to watch on the 
fucking TV. 

684
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:16,920
Yeah. 
So then you then you're 

685
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,040
gaslighting yourself into 
thinking, but I love that 

686
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,640
program. 
Then you try and watch it when 

687
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,280
you're broken up and think, I 
don't like this stuff. 

688
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,880
It's a shit, what am I doing? 
I don't even understand what's 

689
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,640
going on the fucking TV. 
And I've watched six seasons of 

690
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,200
it. 
So, you know, we learn and to 

691
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:36,160
allow myself to embrace the 
things that I like on my last 

692
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,160
episode that I just did with 
Erin again, we podcast is great.

693
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,360
What's it called? 
Audi HD and me, we tried to talk

694
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,920
about health anxiety. 
She's so wonderful, isn't she? 

695
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:47,800
She's. 
Gorgeous. 

696
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,000
Really. 
To be on your own and to start 

697
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,440
to understand and learn that you
are allowed to like the things 

698
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,000
that you like. 
Yeah. 

699
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,360
You're allowed to like the food 
that you like. 

700
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,920
Rather than going what do you 
want? 

701
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,480
You're allowed to like the TV 
programs. 

702
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,680
You're allowed to like the 
activities that you do at home, 

703
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,800
however geeky or whatever. 
Doesn't matter. 

704
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,840
It needs to be that you are 
happy and that you like it. 

705
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,720
I have the strength in and the 
confidence in my relationship 

706
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,680
that there are things that when 
he goes, oh, I really want to 

707
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,120
watch this, that I will rather 
go, OK, then I'm thinking, how 

708
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,320
am I going to pick enough skin 
off my fingers to get through 

709
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,960
this? 
That sounds like a you thing. 

710
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:34,920
Yeah, I'm going to leave you to 
that one. 

711
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,680
I'm going to do what I want. 
To do and that's fine. 

712
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,840
And there are things that I 
watch that are me thing and I 

713
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,360
love that. 
And then we come together and we

714
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,720
have stuff that we watch 
together that we enjoy, you 

715
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:46,200
know, and we have things that we
do together that we enjoy, But I

716
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:47,760
don't necessarily love no love 
celeb. 

717
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,120
I don't I don't need him to love
everything I love. 

718
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,000
And actually, it's quite nice to
have things that are for me. 

719
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,200
Oh, 100%. 
And I think the most important 

720
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,240
thing is like love you for who 
you are. 

721
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,240
And that's, you know, hard for 
anybody if you don't know who 

722
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:05,720
you are. 
You just gave me this really 

723
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:08,160
what was a horrible memory. 
But actually it's just really 

724
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,080
brought a smile to my face. 
No, it used to be a horrible 

725
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,080
memory of when I broke up with 
my first love for that one. 

726
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,360
And it was the end of days. 
It was awful. 

727
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,360
And my mum said to me, she said,
you know, I did, I did really 

728
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,360
like him. 
But actually, on reflection, he 

729
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,120
did always kind of want you to 
look a certain way. 

730
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,680
And he didn't really like that 
your hair was curly. 

731
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,640
He didn't really care about the 
fact that we're Caribbean. 

732
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,720
He didn't really, you know, and 
actually when you're with 

733
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:39,360
somebody, they, they need to 
love all of you. 

734
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,200
They need to celebrate all of 
you exactly as you are. 

735
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,960
And the reason why it's funny is
I remember just being like, 

736
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,920
shut. 
Up man, you don't know anything.

737
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:54,440
I don't ever. 
Every relationship I've been in 

738
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,040
there was always a but if only 
he could be less. 

739
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,160
If only he could be more. 
If only you know. 

740
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,600
And that's normally it was less 
horrible, more kind. 

741
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,040
But, but it is. 
But it is that thing, isn't it? 

742
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,200
If you're constantly wanting to 
change something about someone, 

743
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,120
you should not be with them. 
No, no. 

744
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:16,160
Because you shouldn't be 
changed. 

745
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,160
And you? 
Shouldn't want to. 

746
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,440
Change and everybody doesn't 
need to be everything to 

747
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,120
everyone. 
And we've already said, yeah, 

748
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,880
differences in things and 
differences in capacity and 

749
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,280
capability, you know, like, 
yeah, it's always. 

750
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,280
And it's, and I think it is 
important for me, it is 

751
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,680
important to have different 
people for these different 

752
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,760
aspects of my life and different
aspects of my personality. 

753
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,120
The friendship I have with you, 
the conversations that we have, 

754
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,800
I have with you, and that's 
something that I need from you. 

755
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,480
And I love that I have it and 
I'm very, very grateful for 

756
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:49,600
that. 
And I know I'm very lucky to 

757
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,440
have it. 
And I have something totally 

758
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,080
different from Liam and I have. 
Do you know what? 

759
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,920
I mean and I have 100%, I did a 
little bit of research, research

760
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,680
about self partnership. 
Self partnership is healthy when

761
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,720
it is about agency, your values,
and that's what you actually 

762
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:10,240
want and if you are using it 
also, as we said, at a time of 

763
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:14,960
healing, it is worth checking in
on if it is driven by belief 

764
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,240
that you're too hard to love, 
that you're not enough or too 

765
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:21,320
much, and all of those awful 
words. 

766
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,040
I have previously dipped my toe 
into the area of dating safety 

767
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,480
with a couple of episodes, one 
with the legendary CJ Debara, 

768
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,120
author of Neuro Queer, Who I 
Love, and also Romantic 

769
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,560
relationships and how our 
neurodivergence Impacts intimacy

770
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,840
with the legendary Katiosaurus, 
Kate Osborne. 

771
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,760
I will share a link in the show 
notes to all three of those 

772
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,360
episodes. 
However, people with ADHD can be

773
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,240
an easy target. 
That makes me both enraged and 

774
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:53,280
incredibly sad. 
But this exploration has 

775
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:59,160
inspired me to create some very 
special in person events which 

776
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,600
will be starting this year and I
hope we'll run until I've taken 

777
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,600
them everywhere in Scotland, 
England and Wales. 

778
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,200
So the big news, if you hadn't 
already heard the Christmas Day 

779
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,520
episode, is that Easy Target 
events are in collaboration with

780
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,840
the National Trust, so they'll 
be taking place at some 

781
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,880
incredible National Trust 
venues. 

782
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,240
Thank you very much for 
supporting our Chazo National 

783
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:26,560
Trust. 
And the wonderful Robin of the 

784
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,640
National Trust is at this very 
moment investigating dates and 

785
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,360
venues. 
And once I have them confirmed, 

786
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,800
I will share the details of all 
events. 

787
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,560
If you would like to be the 
first to know, I'll share a form

788
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,880
to add your e-mail into in the 
show notes. 

789
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,320
And as ever, the Patreon podcast
community, the hands always get 

790
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,040
first dibs. 
I could not be more driven, 

791
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,200
passionate, and excited for 
them. 

792
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,960
So when I'm talking about Easy 
Target, what we have looked at 

793
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,840
today is just one aspect of 
this. 

794
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,400
This is a much, much bigger 
thing that spans loads of 

795
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,160
different areas in our lives. 
And it sounds like a really 

796
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,320
cheesy and ridiculous thing to 
say, but I am both of those 

797
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,320
things. 
It really feels like everything 

798
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,520
that I've done in this space 
over the last four years has led

799
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,600
to creating these totally unique
charity events which will not 

800
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,200
only inform and connect people, 
but also empower by arming 

801
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,920
attendees with actual tools to 
best support themselves and each

802
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,840
other as a community. 
But whilst those easy target 

803
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,640
events will be the safe space to
dive further into topics like 

804
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,760
we've already explored, today 
our charity peer support groups 

805
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,320
are focusing on not the traumas 
that have led us to have poor 

806
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,000
self relationship, but where we 
are at with our self 

807
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,360
relationship and leaning on and 
learning from each other to help

808
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,240
build a stronger self 
relationship. 

809
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:56,120
You are very recently diagnosed 
with ADHDI would like to ask you

810
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,840
the main kind of focused 
questions of exploring self 

811
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,640
relationship in three ways. 
Because we've already talked for

812
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,000
this and we might as well talk 
some more. 

813
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:12,080
Prior to discovering you had 
ADHD, once you self identified 

814
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:17,640
and now very freshly post 
diagnosis because I can then 

815
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,920
chip in with where I'm at four 
years down the line. 

816
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:26,440
So how did you think about 
yourself pre any awareness 

817
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,520
whatsoever? 
Pre any awareness at all I'm if 

818
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,560
I hadn't got any awareness 
trigger warning I highly likely 

819
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,600
wouldn't be here now. 
A couple of times in life where 

820
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,760
that genuinely could have 
happened, I. 

821
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,560
Don't know the statistic because
you're non binary. 

822
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,600
Yeah, yeah, I don't know the 
statistic, but I know that one 

823
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,240
in four ADHD women has made an 
attempt on their life. 

824
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:53,480
Yeah. 
And I am one of the one in four.

825
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,480
It is very valid. 
It's very important. 

826
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,000
Pretty. 
Yeah. 

827
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:00,840
The relation, though, there 
wasn't one. 

828
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:05,880
No, that wasn't before diagnosis
self loading completely. 

829
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,320
So yeah, didn't see the self. 
Relationship. 

830
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,480
Only self loading didn't see. 
I didn't see the point. 

831
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,120
I didn't see the point in me 
being here. 

832
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,800
I didn't see what I could add to
anyone or anything or any 

833
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,880
situation. 
I felt the only thing I added to

834
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,280
things was negative because I 
was loud to talk to. 

835
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,280
Forget for lazy. 
Yeah, messy like all of the 

836
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,760
negative things. 
Relationship with myself didn't 

837
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,440
exist. 
Exactly. 

838
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,720
And then when you found out, 
when you had that awareness, 

839
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:36,040
when you found out about ADHD, 
which we've explored in a 

840
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,520
previous interview, how did you 
think about yourself from the 

841
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,200
moment that you found out about 
it? 

842
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,080
It was it was the O moments, the
the the positive OS and the 

843
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,240
negative OS. 
My relationship with myself 

844
00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:50,160
definitely started to change 
immediately. 

845
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,880
And that is through, that is 
through whether directly or 

846
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,120
indirectly through what you were
reading, what you were listening

847
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,080
to, etcetera. 
It is peer support. 

848
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,640
It is, it's 100%. 
I started listening to ADHD 

849
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,280
adults and you and there were 
all these things that just 

850
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,120
struck A chord all the way 
through that I then. 

851
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,480
So it was a it was a media. 
It was before I'd even told 

852
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,120
people about it that I started 
listening privately on my 

853
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,840
journeys to work and starting to
think, oh, that's, that's me. 

854
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:21,720
And oh, there are other people 
that do it. 

855
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:24,000
And actually these are people 
that I look at and I think, oh, 

856
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,040
I like them. 
And I think that starts to, that

857
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:31,320
starts to reframe it completely.
So we previously said that our 

858
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:37,080
self worth was reliant on how we
were viewed in the eyes of say a

859
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,360
romantic partner or any 
relationship. 

860
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,280
But even though it sounds like 
the same thing, it isn't. 

861
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,680
What you've just said is I like 
them and they're like me. 

862
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,640
So it isn't necessarily about 
the fact that you need somebody 

863
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,600
to like you, to like yourself, 
but in order to see all of the 

864
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,120
things that you've been ashamed 
of, the negative traits, 

865
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,640
whatever in people that you 
genuinely like can start to give

866
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,520
you the permission to go. 
Well, maybe I like me actually 

867
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,440
because I like them and I like 
them. 

868
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:15,240
I think because I spent my 
previous life wanting to be like

869
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:18,440
the cool neurotypical people. 
Yeah, I've been told I should be

870
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,360
like the the cool neurotypical 
people as well. 

871
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,120
That's the other thing. 
It's not like I just wanted to 

872
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,040
be like them. 
I was told that I should be like

873
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:24,760
them. 
Yeah. 

874
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,200
And an embarrassment very much 
for not being like. 

875
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,120
Couldn't, even though you were 
trying. 

876
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:30,720
Horrific. 
And why can't I? 

877
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:32,560
And so, you know, it just keeps 
going round and round and round,

878
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,400
doesn't it? 
To then see these people that I 

879
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,760
did like and respected and found
funny and wasn't having to force

880
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,920
laughs because I didn't 
understand the humor of. 

881
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Of that life. 

882
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,560
Of feign interest while your 
eyes are zoning. 

883
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,760
Out. 
Yeah, horrific. 

884
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,400
So to then get these people and 
to to start to learn that it was

885
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,840
okay to accept myself. 
It all feels really sick and 

886
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,040
juicy, but it is. 
Let me come back to that. 

887
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,720
What I'm gonna do is ask the 
other two questions from those 

888
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:04,120
perspectives, and then we'll do 
all three from now. 

889
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:10,040
How did you talk to yourself 
prior to ADHD awareness? 

890
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,040
100% negatively internally 
berating, yeah. 

891
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,800
Berating myself, yeah, the 
entire time questioning myself 

892
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,160
as well. 
That's an interesting 1, isn't 

893
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,280
it 'cause I wasn't answering why
can't I? 

894
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,800
Why can't I just? 
Can't I get? 

895
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,280
Myself, How did I get here? 
Yeah. 

896
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,840
Why have I put myself? 
Why have I put myself in this 

897
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:26,640
situation? 
Yeah. 

898
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,560
So how you talk to yourself when
you found out that you had ADHD,

899
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:39,640
did it change or, or was it just
that you became aware of voices 

900
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,880
that you'd almost previously 
ignored? 

901
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,040
I'm only speaking for myself. 
It'd be like the the negative 

902
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,440
self talk is so ingrained that 
that's almost, you almost can't 

903
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,000
hear it anymore, right? 
That's just the sound of life, 

904
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,080
right? 
And then you find out that 

905
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,840
you've got it and it's not just 
going to stop overnight, but you

906
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,360
start to go, oh, I probably 
shouldn't be talking to myself 

907
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,720
like that actually, because 
would I speak to somebody like 

908
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:09,920
that who had a condition that 
made them do these things? 

909
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,400
You start to go hang in a 
minute. 

910
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:12,600
A questioned. 
Yeah. 

911
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,040
A questioned other things like 
why am I thinking like this as 

912
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,280
opposed to why did you do this? 
And so the question changed to 

913
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,720
why am I thinking like this? 
So it was a period of 

914
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:24,240
questioning massively because it
was why am I thinking like this 

915
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,080
when I when I look at them and 
think and I'm engrossed in their

916
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,640
conversation and I want to be 
part of it very much a 

917
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,800
transitional period. 
What we're angling towards, as 

918
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,480
ever, is kind of acceptance. 
And I think that identifying 

919
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:42,160
ADHD in yourself or actually 
getting a diagnosis, not only 

920
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,520
can you not just shift that 
lifetime of negative self talk, 

921
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,680
which is now just inherently 
part of who you are to the point

922
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,880
that that's just normal, but 
also after the initial relief, 

923
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,760
you're going to have periods. 
And believe me, I'm still knee 

924
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,600
deep in them where you're kind 
of like, yeah, I didn't want it 

925
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,720
though. 
Say, then that's kind of a kick 

926
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:04,600
against it. 
You should be like, oh, fucking 

927
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,800
here again. 
And it's not my fault, but it is

928
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,320
this fucking thing that I've 
got. 100% because I do the 

929
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,520
podcast, I'm very privileged in 
the fact that I then got to meet

930
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:19,920
people like you, like Sam Brown,
like James Brown, like Harry, 

931
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,480
like all these Megan. 
But it's like so many amazing 

932
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,280
people that I've met that that 
really helped me. 

933
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,760
Alongside that, in doing 
something like this, this 

934
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:40,360
unsettlable score, it does kind 
of make the suffering reluctant 

935
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,240
to say worth it. 
But when you know that you can 

936
00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:46,920
help people, it wasn't 
completely in vain. 

937
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:52,400
And that in turn, I would say it
elevates yourself worth because 

938
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,760
you're not all of the horrible 
things that people have ever 

939
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,120
said about you. 
You've helped people now like 

940
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,560
self-care, for example, is it's 
always been a bit of a well, 

941
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,520
it's all it remains a massive 
struggle for me. 

942
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,040
As we know. 
Again, it's another one of those

943
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,240
things get that gets thrown 
around on social media and 

944
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:11,320
self-care isn't, you know, 
bubble busts and chocolate cake.

945
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,120
It's right down to making the 
right decisions, yeah, to best 

946
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,760
support yourself on the daily, 
on the hourly, you know, 

947
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,560
drinking water. 
And yeah. 

948
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:26,760
How were you at self-care prior 
to awareness? 

949
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,600
Oh, you there was none. 
I really, I genuinely wasn't 

950
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:35,480
there to even think about caring
myself. 

951
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,280
I honestly don't know how I got 
from A to B ever. 

952
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,160
Just walking around watching 
everything happen. 

953
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,680
I don't know. 
Were you aware that other people

954
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,720
were caring for themselves and 
doing things that you weren't? 

955
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,280
Doing yeah, and that just 
doubled down. 

956
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,080
On how quickly believed. 
You were? 

957
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:53,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
See. 

958
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,960
I, I and I think for me, there 
was a coping mechanism in there 

959
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,760
as well where I'd be like a 
makeup bag. 

960
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,960
You just like throw some. 
Liquor in the bottom of your bag

961
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,440
and just hope, hope. 
For the best, you wash your 

962
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,520
hair. 
All right, love Jesus. 

963
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:11,640
Do you know like I really just 
there was an element of that 

964
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,480
self preservation in the things 
that I struggled with where I 

965
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,240
just rather than noticing them 
as a struggle, I had this built 

966
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:22,400
in defence mechanism of actually
this is something I'm choosing. 

967
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,480
I cannot put a comb through my 
matted hair because I have 

968
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,360
chosen not to wash it, not 
because I do not have the 

969
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,560
executive function to get. 
Yeah, mine was just lazy. 

970
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,600
Mine was lazy because I was told
lazy was the biggest 1 all the 

971
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,120
way through. 
Why I couldn't keep my teeth 

972
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:41,720
twice a day for what feels like 
85 hours, Why I couldn't keep my

973
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,200
room slash flat tidy, why I 
couldn't contact friends. 

974
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,160
And other people apparently just
did it so seamlessly, almost 

975
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,320
like they could just do it 
naturally without having to 

976
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,120
think through. 
Yeah, next step, next step, next

977
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:53,840
step. 
What am I doing? 

978
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,560
I was back up by the bootstraps 
to take every step. 

979
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:03,800
Yeah, with aware of ADHD comes a
word that is terrifying, is a 

980
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,960
responsibility when we can 
acknowledge that actually the 

981
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:14,280
self-care things can help us. 
Yeah, I know that my ADHD 

982
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:20,080
symptoms will be less severe if 
I go to sleep earlier, but I 

983
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,200
don't. 
Because we're really good at 

984
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,640
that. 
When you're in that place of 

985
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,920
like figuring out how to best 
support yourself and still 

986
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,080
struggling to do it. 
Yeah. 

987
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,280
That's when it's really easy to 
fall back into that negative 

988
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,320
self talk because it's. 
Like because you even know. 

989
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,600
What you're meant to do and 
you're still not fucking doing 

990
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:39,640
it. 
You know what I mean? 

991
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:44,440
But it's hard. 
Again, peer support. 100% body. 

992
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,160
Brain magic. 
Let's bring it up to date. 

993
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,360
So you were diagnosed with ADHD 
4th of December. 

994
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,280
How do you think about yourself 
now? 

995
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,080
First day elated when I got that
first form through from the 

996
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:01,000
doctors and it had a selection 
of fun things that could be 

997
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,480
sorry linked to. 
ADHD Yeah, it. 

998
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,320
Works, yeah, but it was the big,
big ones because it was 

999
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,920
disordered eating. 
It was the sexual assault was in

1000
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,240
there, yeah. 
And then anxiety, depression 

1001
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:17,160
that flung into my brain when I 
got that yes, you have got it. 

1002
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,440
But the fact it was said in such
a kind of like, yeah, kind of 

1003
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,640
like of course you got it. 
Look at yourself. 

1004
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,560
That healed that instantly. 
However, the next day shit, and 

1005
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,600
I remember talking to you and 
you said the most fantastic 

1006
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,000
thing to me anyway because I was
like, what the fuck? 

1007
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,800
I Oh my God, I feel awful. 
I feel horrific. 

1008
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,040
I've just realized that I've got
through my entire life thinking 

1009
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,560
it was a phase. 
And when I finally get to the 

1010
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:39,720
end of the phase, it'll be all 
right. 

1011
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:41,400
It'll be all right. 
And then tell someone go, no, 

1012
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,640
it's not a phase. 
And then you said you haven't 

1013
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,120
just won tickets to Kylie. 
Just just be told you've got a 

1014
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:49,560
lifelong neurological condition 
that. 

1015
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,200
Sounds exactly like something I 
would say. 

1016
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,440
You're right, because I felt 
bad. 

1017
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:01,760
I felt guilty for feeling bad 
about wanting this thing for so 

1018
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,480
long and waiting so many years 
to be told it. 

1019
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,360
To then feel shit about it the 
next day was not great. 

1020
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,480
And then obviously the first 
layer of gaslighting came in 

1021
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,680
where I decided that I had 
Gasolit the the clinical 

1022
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:17,360
psychologist because I decided 
didn't want it, didn't want it 

1023
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,000
gone. 
However, now so much happier. 

1024
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,440
I feel like a different person. 
Like we've talked about 

1025
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,560
privately. 
It wasn't that I was waiting for

1026
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:25,600
the end of something. 
Yeah. 

1027
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,040
It was. 
I was waiting for the beginning 

1028
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,360
of something and now I've 
started it and now I feel 

1029
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,080
happier. 
What do I need? 

1030
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,960
I never thought of that. 
And that being valid, that being

1031
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,480
okay, more than okay to not 
beyond reasonable, totally 

1032
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,360
essential. 
I was never allowed to happen 

1033
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,520
yeast before got my lanyard. 
I've used my lanyard now once. 

1034
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,800
That was a bit of a go. 
Amazing. 

1035
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,520
It was at the dentist. 
I was seeing a new dentist for 

1036
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,000
the first time and I on the 
journey that I had half an hour 

1037
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,120
and I was like, okay, had it 
with me, touched it a bit in the

1038
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:56,880
car. 
I kind of like just get to get 

1039
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,640
to know the lanyard, then 
eventually put it on before I 

1040
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,880
went into the dentist hidden 
under a scarf and just thought 

1041
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,880
now is if I'm going to do it, 
now is the perfect time because 

1042
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:06,600
this is something I find really 
traumatic that I'm. 

1043
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,400
Going to need to help. 
With and I whipped that lanyard 

1044
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,200
out and I churned out a shit 
load of things. 

1045
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,840
I was like so this is the thing 
and this is how I feel and I've 

1046
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:19,480
got ADHD and autism and allowed 
myself to say I had autism even 

1047
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,640
though I haven't had the tick 
box yet was amazing. 

1048
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,160
Beforehand I would have been 
even more traumatized at the 

1049
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,440
dentist and yeah, probably not 
come back. 

1050
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:31,040
So post diagnosis, to have this 
relationship with myself because

1051
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,120
I now feel like there is 
validation. 

1052
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,480
Honestly, that's fantastic. 
I'm really, really trapped for 

1053
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:37,720
you. 
It's amazing. 

1054
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,880
Still getting there though, no? 
God, obviously every case you've

1055
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,440
got, but I've actually forgot 
what I was going to say. 

1056
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:46,760
That's not like you. 
Hang on a minute, hang on a 

1057
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:47,560
minute. 
Yes. 

1058
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:52,880
How do you feel you overcame 
that imposter syndrome? 

1059
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,760
Was it really me saying about 
tickets, Kylie? 

1060
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,360
What was it that made you 
realise? 

1061
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,040
That was, that was honestly a 
massive thing. 

1062
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,440
I I spoke to you, Erin, Sam and 
Darren. 

1063
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,840
Yeah, Dazza. 
Dazza, Dazza from the Chazza, 

1064
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,760
all late diagnosed people who'd 
all done it at different times. 

1065
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:12,800
Do you know? 
I mean, I know all very 

1066
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,920
different, but have these 
similarities. 

1067
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:16,880
That's what I needed. 
That, that's part of it. 

1068
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,560
The syndrome is real. 
How do you talk to yourself now?

1069
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,280
I talk less to myself now. 
Do you? 

1070
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,800
Because it's so fresh, I think 
it's less that I've changed how 

1071
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,880
I'm talking to. 
I'm talking to myself less, so 

1072
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,320
I've taken away the negative 
self talk a lot. 

1073
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,600
Not completely, and I don't 
think that will ever go. 

1074
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,640
I don't know, allowing myself 
when somebody else talks 

1075
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:44,440
positively about me. 
Oh, to not vomit in my mouth to 

1076
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,040
go, OK cool, thank. 
You. 

1077
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,040
Yeah, it's so difficult, isn't 
it, though? 

1078
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:50,480
But I'm learning. 
What about you? 

1079
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,240
Because you're how many years? 
Four years. 

1080
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,920
It's quite funny actually. 
What I have noticed again, going

1081
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,200
back to what we said at the 
beginning, this hyper vigilant 

1082
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,160
state that I find myself in 
whenever I am living by myself 

1083
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,480
for these periods of time when 
my husband's at work. 

1084
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:10,000
What I have noticed is that I'm 
actually speaking quite nicely 

1085
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:15,440
to myself, but in a really 
chaotic, intense way. 

1086
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:17,800
So. 
Frantically. 

1087
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,840
Yeah, yeah. 
So I'm kind of like, where are 

1088
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:21,680
the keys? 
Where are the keys? 

1089
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:22,600
There are the keys, There are 
the keys. 

1090
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:23,720
Well done. 
Well done. 

1091
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:25,040
Laura, you did put it in the 
right place. 

1092
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,720
Well done. 
OK now, Right. 

1093
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,160
Lock the door. 
Laura, pay attention. 

1094
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:29,680
Knock the door. 
You have definitely locked the 

1095
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:31,480
door. 
Do not make yourself late by 

1096
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,400
coming back upstairs to check if
you lock the door. 

1097
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,160
You have locked the door in the 
bag in the right place. 

1098
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,560
Well done. 
That's where I'm at. 

1099
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,320
So it. 
Is all positive if? 

1100
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,320
I'm giving. 
Myself, well done but it is 

1101
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:48,400
fucking manic and a lot and as 
I've said, I'm exhausted by it 

1102
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,200
so step by step. 
But four years on and you know 

1103
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,880
don't get me wrong, like I make 
mistakes all the time. 

1104
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,520
I do drop things. 
I've lost several things in the 

1105
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,240
sofa which I cannot find the 
spoons to even take the sofa 

1106
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:04,200
apart to look for, but when they
happen it's not look what you've

1107
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:06,360
done now you dickhead. 
It's none of that, it's just a 

1108
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,680
lot of swearing at the situation
rather than. 

1109
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,160
Directly at. 
Myself, I get frustrated, but I 

1110
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,880
don't necessarily get frustrated
with myself. 

1111
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,880
I know that I'm trying very hard
all of the time. 

1112
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,320
That is quite exhausting, but we
could say there's some people 

1113
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,120
pleasing there. 
But really I do feel a 

1114
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,680
responsibility not just to 
myself, to the people in my 

1115
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,160
lives, the people who are 
involved in this amazing 

1116
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,720
organization, giving their time,
that I am the founder of. 

1117
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,440
And so I have a lot of 
responsibility. 

1118
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:42,880
So in terms of identifying what 
my needs are, I'm definitely not

1119
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,920
at a place where I would put my 
needs to the the top of the 

1120
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,720
pile. 
I realized that a lot of the 

1121
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,520
time I speak a lot at festivals 
and events. 

1122
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,040
My calendar for this summer is 
already absolutely disgraceful. 

1123
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,760
And a lot of the time I do, I'm 
not going to say mask my 

1124
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:03,320
neurodivergence because I don't,
but I do have to abandon my 

1125
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,400
newer Divergent quite regularly.
If it's somebody from a big 

1126
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,600
company or something, I'm not 
going to sit here and say, and 

1127
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:14,920
when you respond to me, please 
make sure that it is done via 

1128
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,760
voice note or FaceTime. 
I'm going to dance the beat of 

1129
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,480
everyone else's drum to get off 
her in the door so that I can 

1130
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,320
raise awareness for our 
condition and signpost to the 

1131
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,480
charity. 
So perhaps one day I'll get to a

1132
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,920
place where I actually do state 
mining needs and stick to my 

1133
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,920
boundaries. 
But for now I continue to take 

1134
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:40,200
many for the team and I do find 
myself in a position where I am 

1135
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,640
very accommodating to the needs 
of others without saying well 

1136
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,880
actually. 
This is but then also look one 

1137
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:48,880
thing that we have. 
It's opening doors just step by 

1138
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,240
step. 
You know, one thing we have to 

1139
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:54,360
do is also acknowledge that we 
aren't just traits. 

1140
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,360
Yeah. 
And that we have personalities. 

1141
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:58,800
Uh huh. 
And actually that's really 

1142
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,080
important. 
That's something that I 

1143
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,400
questioned massively, massively.
And actually, I think acceptance

1144
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,440
to the point actually maybe it's
your personality that is fine, 

1145
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:10,960
that you still want to make sure
people are OK, as long as you 

1146
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,760
have that backup in situations 
where you need them to be met, 

1147
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:15,600
your needs are being met. 
Oh good, 100%. 

1148
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,360
You know, I have an amazing team
and we're working towards 

1149
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,600
getting more support behind the 
scenes for the various aspects 

1150
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:23,360
of what I do. 
But yeah, when it comes to 

1151
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,920
festivals and events, I'm like 
whatever you need, no worries, 

1152
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,160
just let me in the door. 
Let me. 

1153
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,480
But that's, that's lovely, yes. 
Yes, it is. 

1154
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,080
It is lovely, but I think. 
But it means it leaves you 

1155
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:34,680
traumatized to the end. 
But it's lovely. 

1156
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,480
Just Just really tired, really 
tired, little bit resentful, but

1157
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,840
we get love. 
It it's fine, it's fine. 

1158
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,960
It's fine because of course as 
we've, as we haven't pointed 

1159
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:48,520
out, which I have pointed out to
you privately is the after 

1160
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,320
saying that you were never going
to tour again when you were 

1161
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,440
casually talking to me about all
these dates around the country 

1162
01:03:56,040 --> 01:04:00,120
doing a talk, is that actually 
it's a tour. 

1163
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,440
Easy target. 
Yeah, it's a tour. 

1164
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,880
And it hadn't occurred to me in 
any in any capacity until you 

1165
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:06,600
said it. 
I was just. 

1166
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,920
Saying how would it fucking 
know? 

1167
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:13,040
My tour that I've done 3 tours. 
These are very specific events 

1168
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:16,040
in different areas in 
association with the National 

1169
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,440
Trust. 
Oh yeah, it's a fucking tour. 

1170
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,640
So my 4th UK tour. 
Easy target. 

1171
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:27,520
We'll be starting this late 
summer, but I'm not like other 

1172
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,080
tours. 
This isn't just me, the backing 

1173
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,800
of a lot of people and very 
important that is it the 

1174
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,840
National Trust, our values 
really align. 

1175
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:41,440
I'm so grateful for for that. 
And unlike other tours, I really

1176
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,680
feel like this is going to run. 
It's going to run. 

1177
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:47,720
This is this is my life's work, 
she says. 

1178
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:49,800
And it's going to run for a 
long, long time. 

1179
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:50,600
I. 
Hope it is. 

1180
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,480
If you look at the tours, 
they're really good markers for,

1181
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:57,240
yeah, for everything that's 
that's happened and that you've 

1182
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,560
achieved and with the charity, 
you know, to get to this point 

1183
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,640
is fantastic. 
It's amazing. 

1184
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:06,400
It won't just be me booking 
venues, promoting, begging, 

1185
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:11,120
borrowing, asking candidates. 
It's it's a big change and I'm 

1186
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:12,720
very, very excited, very 
grateful. 

1187
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,360
Now, one more question and then 
we'll start to wrap it up. 

1188
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,400
We'll see. 
How do you now respond to your 

1189
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,400
own emotions and needs? 
And I want to also acknowledge, 

1190
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,720
sorry, because we do have very 
different presentations of 

1191
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,320
neurodivergence. 
You've mentioned in the past a 

1192
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,840
struggle to in a previous 
interview, a struggle to kind of

1193
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,440
identify your emotions and 
explain your emotions. 

1194
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,000
No, but again, when we say about
the autism thing, I don't think 

1195
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,440
I ever will. 
So it's accepting that I'm 

1196
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,960
happy, sad, anxious. 
OK, do you know what I mean? 

1197
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:49,880
So that's that's a big one to be
48 1/2 every day sometimes to be

1198
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:53,400
starting to do a little bit more
asking if you could just help me

1199
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,360
by doing this thing that 
actually in your life is going 

1200
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:56,840
to take 2 seconds isn't going to
fetch your tool. 

1201
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:00,920
But to me, it's huge to being 
more okay with asking for that 

1202
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,600
for using the accessible toilet,
which I do now is like, yay, a 

1203
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,600
massive 1, massive 1 for me. 
Hopefully I won't get kidney 

1204
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:12,880
failure like it's so my knees, 
it's changing still now, but in 

1205
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,800
a really, really positive way. 
And you're. 

1206
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,280
Only six weeks in pal, so I know
what the fuck. 

1207
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:20,160
Amazing, amazing my. 
Support. 

1208
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,560
I think the most important thing
to acknowledge wherever you are 

1209
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:28,040
at in your identification 
assessment, if you're going for 

1210
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,760
one diagnosis treatment, if you 
take wherever you are at in your

1211
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:37,520
ADHD discovery or diagnosis, 
remember it's a work in 

1212
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,040
progress. 
We're going to have good days 

1213
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,040
and bad days. 
And if you are a person who 

1214
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:46,720
menstruates, those hormones but 
also exacerbate our ADHD 

1215
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:50,200
symptoms. 
So day by day, sometimes hour by

1216
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,960
hour, as we navigate this thing 
and show yourself compassion, 

1217
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,560
the times when you are most 
frustrated with yourself are the

1218
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,880
times when you really need to 
try and show yourself the most 

1219
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,320
compassion. 
That is a big thing that I got 

1220
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,840
from the You haven't just won 
tickets to Kylie is to cut 

1221
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:10,360
yourself some slack. 
Yeah, it's going to change, but 

1222
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:13,000
it's never going to go away. 
No, no. 

1223
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:16,400
So cut yourself some slack. 
So however, the Wrecking Ball of

1224
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:20,720
unidentified ADHD has swung in 
and bashed up your life as it 

1225
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,960
has done at ours, Your 
relationships, yourself worth 

1226
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,680
your career and so on. 
It is important to acknowledge 

1227
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,760
your trauma and your challenges 
are not personal failures, Quite

1228
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:37,360
the fucking opposite. 
You adapted and survived without

1229
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,560
even having the instruction 
manual. 

1230
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:43,120
It's time to start a new chapter
with all of the information in 

1231
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:47,040
healing our self relationship 
with ADHD and self-awareness. 

1232
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:52,200
The work isn't to fix your 
yourself, you are not broken. 

1233
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,960
It's about re relating to 
yourself accurately with all of 

1234
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:01,960
the information and with so many
ADHD as having experienced, as 

1235
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,440
we said, traumatic personal 
relationships. 

1236
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:11,040
In many ways we are, as I said, 
telling Cupid to do one this 

1237
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:15,160
February and spending this time 
with our charity focusing on 

1238
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:20,680
building self relationship. 
It's time for your second act 

1239
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,720
and we can turn the page 
together. 

1240
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:28,399
Fan like Jerry fucking Springer.
I would love you to come along 

1241
01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:32,399
to an ADHDF plus peer support 
group in your local area. 

1242
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,840
And although these groups are 
informed by and both focused on 

1243
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:42,040
and hosted by ADHD adults of 
marginalized genders, as long as

1244
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:47,160
you are over 18, regardless of 
your gender or diagnosis status,

1245
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,720
you are very welcome to attend 
an evening of community 

1246
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:55,920
Connection discussing ADHD self 
relationship on Tuesday the 3rd 

1247
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:00,200
of February in Birmingham, or 
AIR in Scotland on Wednesday the

1248
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,160
4th in Runcorn. 
Thursday the 5th of February in 

1249
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:09,520
London On Wednesday the 11th of 
February at our first ever Welsh

1250
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:15,279
ADHD AF Plus group by that which
is in Wrexham or on the same 

1251
01:09:15,279 --> 01:09:19,080
night you can attend a group in 
Manchester or Oxford. 

1252
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:21,960
On Thursday the 12th of February
you can come along to our 

1253
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,760
Bristol group or our brand new 
group in Blackpool. 

1254
01:09:26,359 --> 01:09:29,680
All details of all groups and 
links to sign up for e-mail 

1255
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:33,279
reminders for your chosen one 
are available in the show notes.

1256
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:37,760
And if we haven't started one 
local to you yet, you can apply 

1257
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,960
to volunteer to start your own, 
or to volunteer to support our 

1258
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:45,520
charity in another way. 
Or give a very much appreciated 

1259
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:50,160
donation to ADHDF Plus Charity, 
because all of our peer support 

1260
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:55,040
groups are free, so we very much
appreciate donations of any 

1261
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,320
size. 
Enormous thanks to all involved 

1262
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,560
and good luck to our brand new 
facilitators Paula in Blackpool 

1263
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:05,800
and MJ in Wrexham Go Team. 
And on that very exciting note, 

1264
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:10,240
I would like to close in the 
same way that we close our peer 

1265
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,680
support groups. 
I would like to ask you for a 

1266
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,880
glimmer. 
And a glimmer is a microjoy. 

1267
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:20,320
Microjoys are how we survive 
macro grief, and being the last 

1268
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,600
to know the punchline of the 
joke of your life, getting a 

1269
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,560
diagnosis later in life can 
cause us a fair bit of grief. 

1270
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,960
So give me a goddamn glimmer, 
please. 

1271
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:32,640
I went to a butterfly farm and I
had and we stood there for 

1272
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,800
fucking age. 
It's completely still, like, I 

1273
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,880
want one and to land on me. 
And it did. 

1274
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:44,280
And I felt overwhelmed with 
happiness. 

1275
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,320
And I just grinned and I loved 
it so much. 

1276
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:52,440
And that was such a tiny moment 
and the most amazing thing. 

1277
01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:54,440
And I was there with Liam and he
had one land on him. 

1278
01:10:54,440 --> 01:10:58,520
And it was just, we had the most
gorgeous, gorgeous time just 

1279
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,360
watching these beautiful 
butterflies. 

1280
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:02,920
And then 1 landed. 
Yeah. 

1281
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:07,280
OK, that's my glimmer because. 
Nature is the one for presents, 

1282
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:11,320
being present in that moment, 
and the wonder and the awe and 

1283
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:15,200
the Mariah of it all. 
Yes. 

1284
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:17,720
I love it so. 
I'm going to start using that. 

1285
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,280
What's your clamour? 
Tell me a clamour. 

1286
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,280
OK, firstly, it's about 
traitors. 

1287
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:25,200
Did you do it? 
No. 

1288
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,760
If you are somebody who watches 
it and you haven't seen the 

1289
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:32,160
final yet, I'm about to give a 
massive spoiler so don't listen 

1290
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:33,760
no. 
Spoil it, people have watched, 

1291
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:38,480
it's fine. 
The absolute teamwork, I love it

1292
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:41,280
so much on every level. 
And I hard relate because that's

1293
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:44,160
how I get anything done and how 
I've actually even survived. 

1294
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:48,160
And I think the winners, you 
know, they really had to stick 

1295
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,000
together. 
There were so many times where 

1296
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,360
they could have just gone off 
for themselves, but they didn't.

1297
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,080
They stuck together as a team, 
even though their actions didn't

1298
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,200
make sense and would have upset 
a lot of people along the way. 

1299
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:03,880
The fact that they kept their 
own integrity, the fact that 

1300
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:07,720
they shared the money in their 
actions, in their teamwork. 

1301
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,720
Not only did they win and keep 
their integrity, but they 

1302
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,920
changed another person's life in
doing so. 

1303
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,120
It's more valuable than money 
any fucking day. 

1304
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,040
Also the fact that Victoria 
Beckham is number. 

1305
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,080
One I know, I know. 
So now there's hope for the 

1306
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:25,440
gays. 
That should release Let your 

1307
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:27,600
head go. 
This is where we're at now. 

1308
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:31,160
It's like for the gays. 
Do it for the gays, baby. 

1309
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:34,800
What a time to be alive. 
So I am not making light of 

1310
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,760
family estrangement on any 
level. 

1311
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:40,960
I'm really not but the means 
that kept coming through, 

1312
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:44,240
particularly the one where she's
like break dancing on the train 

1313
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,280
of the wedding dress. 
I have been roaring with 

1314
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,440
laughter to myself and the fact 
that you know, as a first UK 

1315
01:12:49,440 --> 01:12:51,080
number one is that go on the 
hands. 

1316
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,920
Go on the hands. 
Thank you so much for coming on.

1317
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:55,840
Thank you for sharing your 
experiences. 

1318
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,400
Thank you for having me a 
million times. 

1319
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,560
Thank you for everything you do.
You really have been the biggest

1320
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,440
supporter of all things ADHDAF, 
from the Emporium to the groups,

1321
01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:07,200
to me personally, to the big 
ADHD fundraiser. 

1322
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:09,120
I'll be talking about this 
year's one soon. 

1323
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:13,240
You have literally been so 
supportive on every level and in

1324
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:15,440
my personal life. 
So just thank you so, so, so 

1325
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:16,280
much. 
Thank you. 

1326
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:21,080
And I'm so happy that you now 
have your diagnosis and that you

1327
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:26,480
are beginning to realize how 
amazing you are and treat 

1328
01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:29,400
yourself as as you would treat 
somebody that you saw as 

1329
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:30,480
amazing. 
Thank you.