1
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Get away from her you bitch. 
Classic. 

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He was in the Amazon cry along 
when she was researching spiders

3
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right before she died. 
No, I thought you become a 

4
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prostitute or a dog at it. 
I. 

5
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Used to love doggy chow. 
I used to love doggy chow too. 

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00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,040
There's always someone younger 
and hungrier coming down the 

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stairs after you. 
I'm Crystal. 

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00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,320
Wait, did you have a Lesi wet 
dream about me? 

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I'm baby lame. 
And welcome to Camp Classics. 

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00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,720
A thoughtful podcast about 
stupid movies. 

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That was my first of many 
Showgirls references I'll be 

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making throughout this episode. 
I. 

13
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,880
Wonder why? 
Welcome to Camp Classics. 

14
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What do we do here? 
We talk about gay old movies. 

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Figure out why gay people like 
them and we. 

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Also question our own lives and 
our own existence through doing 

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this. 
It's really the pursuit of 

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perfection here, isn't it? 
Absolutely is and the costs, 

19
00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,880
yeah, the sacrifices that we 
make to deliver this podcast to 

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you and can I just say I'm very 
happy that I'm not slurring as 

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much as I have been in the last 
couple of episodes. 

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I've been giving slightly numb 
easy thing to say, but like you 

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know Mariah on the meds I'll do 
the. 

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Best I can, but when I. 
And I'm sorry listeners, but 

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I've listened back to some 
episodes and I'm going to try to

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articulate and enunciate because
it's it's literally becoming 

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like. 
I never thought that about 

28
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,280
myself either before I started 
doing a podcast and I'm like, 

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sometimes you make 4 words, one 
word. 

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00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,000
Yeah, No. 
About me, not about you. 

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Well, valid, because I have. 
I've had notes for you as well, 

32
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so no, no worries about that. 
What I've got over very quickly 

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is like the big fucking gay 
lesbian saying I don't give a 

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shit about that. 
I'm now like I have lost the 

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ability as a fully grown adult 
to speak. 

36
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,760
Yeah, yeah, like sounding gay is
the least of our problems. 

37
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When you say that's so gay, do 
you realize what you say? 

38
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Knock it off. 
Literally, I'd take that. 

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Fucking hell. 
I mean, I don't know why either 

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of us thought that we would be 
good or capable of doing 

41
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something like this, but here we
are. 

42
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Gay delusion? 
Yeah, you're right. 

43
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,240
Yeah, yeah. 
OK. 

44
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Oh, great. 
OK. 

45
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That's what it is, yeah. 
We are Natalie Portman. 

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Well, I'd like to be Mili Kunis.
I don't think I am. 

47
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I think I'm actually Natalie 
Portman's mum in reality. 

48
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Yeah, but we're both sounding 
much better today. 

49
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,600
I feel like we were both 
clinging on to the ledge for 

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dear life. 
And if any of you see the clips 

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that Crystal edits and 
mannequin, literally, I I look 

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like I've been deaf, warmed up. 
I look like I am the mannequin 

53
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that has been fisted. 
Well, I'm glad to see you full 

54
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of colour, like a human that's 
been fisted. 

55
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Yes, great. 
I will say the blue tinge 

56
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lighting really helps with the 
kind of transparent skin that I 

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have. 
And also can I just say your 

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fucking arms? 
I nearly had a meltdown when you

59
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,280
got them out earlier. 
Like what? 

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00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,760
The look, look. 
Oh my God, my voice just 

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tremored. 
You have been roiding up bitch, 

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haven't you? 
I wish, I'm too scared of roids.

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So it's all natural. 
Yeah, they're big. 

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Natty, I said that to you, 
though, I was like, your arms 

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are big. 
Imagine, imagine that what you 

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00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:27,840
could do. 
You could like, crush my neck 

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with those arms. 
I got to say the reason I go to 

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the gym is for compliments, so I
appreciate that. 

69
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:42,360
OK, yeah, shame about your 
personality. 

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There's no gym for that. 
Certainly isn't sometimes 

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though. 
Being in a room with you makes 

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00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,560
me feel like there is though. 
It is like a, you know, a 

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training session. 
Oh, workout. 

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00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,680
Yeah, an intensive workout. 
What do I want to tell you about

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00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,120
Cape class? 
Oh, we've got a gay trion. 

76
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,760
We do, yeah. 
You can support us financially 

77
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,720
to make this show. 
As you say that, how many times 

78
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,720
can I like act surprised? 
Or how can I react differently 

79
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,600
to every time you say? 
How do I just nod and? 

80
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,360
No, I think you do a good job of
like bringing something fresh 

81
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,440
because I don't know what I 
would say if I were in your 

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position. 
I've thought about this before. 

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Oh wait, I'm going to give it 
another. 

84
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,079
Go Yeah, yeah, we've got a gay 
trion. 

85
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No, we don't. 
What's that? 

86
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,800
Yeah, how dare you say that. 
Well, there we go. 

87
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,960
I'm going to each one. 
I'm going to try and think of 

88
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,560
something new to do. 
Well, that's how you can support

89
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,360
us financially to make the show 
and you get a bonus episode 

90
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,680
every month if you sign up. 
It is £4 a month and I'd like to

91
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,840
welcome Danielle and Chris C. 
Yes, hello, Chris Crocker or 

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00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,800
Britney fame. 
I assume yes yeah and now only 

93
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fans *. 
Probably I. 

94
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,560
Think so. 
Most people end up on only fans.

95
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,520
Yeah, yeah. 
Right now you've got big arms. 

96
00:04:53,520 --> 00:05:02,000
Would you go on Only fans? 
I think if I were 15 years 

97
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,480
younger, there is no question 
about it. 

98
00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,080
I would have been on Only fans. 
Yeah. 

99
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,600
And so I guess you would have 
done Cam maybe? 

100
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,040
I did do Cam. 
You like to show them off. 

101
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,360
That's what I was leading to. 
So tell the listeners how you 

102
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,800
did Cam come. 
On I think this podcast is 

103
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,320
listened to by too many of my 
friends, potentially family. 

104
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,560
We'll get that on another one. 
Yeah, I've revealed that detail 

105
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,640
on other podcasts in the past. 
And you know, if you really want

106
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,320
to know more, go have a troll. 
It's a real giggle. 

107
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,400
Yeah, Oh. 
I know the story, I haven't done

108
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,800
Cam and still would. 
Yeah don't care. 

109
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,040
I think there's a niche audience
for any anyone I'd like. 

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Looked into quite a lot of 
documentaries about stuff and 

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00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,640
I'm still waiting. 
If someone could guarantee me an

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00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,040
audience and an income for five 
years, I've quit everything and 

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I would dedicate myself to doing
that. 

114
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,480
Yeah, you've you've talked about
this on the podcast. 

115
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Oh shit, I'm so sorry. 
That's when and then you started

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00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,240
talking about how you'd you'd 
shit on Cam. 

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Oh, I was literally, that's 
where my brain was going. 

118
00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:09,160
So I've literally got one thing 
to say, OK? 

119
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You know, if, if I didn't have 
to edit this, you could probably

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00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,520
get away with telling me the 
same story. 

121
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,280
But you like the fact that is 
that I've heard you if if you 

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00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:19,480
tell a story on this podcast 
once I hear it. 

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00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,480
Please, please. 
I'm about as interesting as 

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00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,840
Natalie Portman is in this film.
No, we won't take that from you.

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But I, I, that is my main note. 
She really needs to get off. 

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Oh my God. 
Listen, I know it's 

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00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,840
inappropriate to call out 
someone for being frigid, but 

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fuck me, you're frigid. 
Yeah, sorry. 

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00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:45,000
Just before we get before we get
to Natalie Portman sex life, we 

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do have some more. 
We have some comments. 

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Oh, let. 
Me see. 

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00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:50,200
Let me see if I. 
Can. 

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No, we don't. 
Vamp says 19. 

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Sorry, padam, Padam. 
Pavam Pavam, I've just 

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00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:03,200
discovered this podcast. 
I love that, yes. 

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00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,200
I've just discovered this 
podcast and I'm loving it. 

137
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,160
So this makes me the first 
Italian listener, right? 

138
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,200
Pavam, Pavam, we hear you and we
know. 

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00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:13,640
Welcome. 
Ciao, Bella. 

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00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:21,040
Hello. 
Hey, Rocky said about Mannequin.

141
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,960
I enjoyed this episode so much 
more than I enjoyed the movie, 

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which may not sound as much of a
compliment as I intended to be. 

143
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,720
Yeah, I mean, the world's pretty
low, but thank you. 

144
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,720
Thank you, Rocky. 
Rocky and we had a comment from 

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Scales. 
Up until now, I was under the 

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00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,720
impression that I was the only 
one on this planet that 

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00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,840
considered Basic Instinct to 
risk addiction. 

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00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,160
Tour de Force Girls is after 
your. 

149
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,920
Own Oh my God. 
I've recently saw an interview 

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00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,520
with Sharon Stone about this. 
About Basic Instinct too. 

151
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,920
Well, about the Basic Instinct 
franchise, because apparently 

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00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,360
they're thinking of rebooting 
it. 

153
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,120
Yes. 
And she literally was like, I 

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00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,040
don't know why you'd fucking 
want to. 

155
00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,000
And she's like, and then she 
went, did you not watch the 

156
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,720
sequel? 
That I did She. 

157
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,000
And then she was something like,
if you think it's OK, Like 

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00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,640
basically the director said he 
wouldn't shoot a scene unless I 

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00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,640
sat on his lap. 
I was meant to have creative 

160
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,240
control. 
But it was a complete like 

161
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,400
vanity contract. 
She basically just shredded it 

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00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,240
all. 
She was meant to have way more 

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clout with that film. 
That's too bad. 

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00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,320
That's still. 
Because you really do want her 

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to have all the power watching. 
That I'd settle for like ATV 

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movie starring Megan Fox who has
recently posted some pictures. 

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She's out and about again and 
she is looking sensational. 

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I got to say, I've been working 
my way through Joe Esther Houses

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back catalog because he's the 
writer of Basic Instinct, writer

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of Showgirls. 
I watched Jade this weekend. 

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I haven't seen Jade before. 
It's Basic Instinct, so if you 

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00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:50,240
feel like you need to watch 
Basic Instinct again but have it

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00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,080
make even less sense, you could 
watch Jade. 

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There we go. 
Yeah, OK. 

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00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,400
Yeah, there's a fertility mask 
and a murder and who did it and.

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Will we be covering it on this 
podcast? 

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00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:01,280
I could. 
Kind of see it. 

178
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,320
Yeah, it doesn't sound like 
you're that keen on. 

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You know, sometimes you just 
watch a movie and you don't want

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to think about whether or not 
it. 

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00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,120
Should be on your podcast. 
Yeah, fair enough. 

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00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:12,880
OK, well that's our business, 
baby. 

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Before we go any further, what 
makes a goddamn camp classic? 

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I don't know see what I'm doing,
Why? 

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00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,640
Would I know? 
Yeah, why don't you tell me, 

186
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,080
but. 
The thing is, you don't know. 

187
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,960
You have to reach your phone 
every time. 

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00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,360
Well, thanks for asking, Crystal
account Plastic is something 

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00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,760
that unlocks queer joy, in the 
words of the icon herself, Megan

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00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,720
Fox. 
I want a wetty. 

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00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,760
It needs to be stupid, it needs 
to have an ongoing legacy and 

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00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,200
inform queer pop culture, and 
ultimately it needs to be anti 

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00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,360
mainstream slash underdog flop 
vibes that's been reclaimed by 

194
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the F slurs. 
And today we are covering Black 

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00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,120
Swan. 
Why did you say it like that? 

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00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,440
I know because it's it's arty. 
Is it? 

197
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:04,280
It's very arty is highbrow. 
Hi Oscar winning. 

198
00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:07,480
What's your history with Black 
Swan? 

199
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,440
Well I remember watching it when
it was released and I remember 

200
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,280
being very edgy and arty at uni 
and having a large poster of it 

201
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,440
on my wall and feeling very. 
No, this is after you were at 

202
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,480
uni. 
Was it? 

203
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,040
Yeah, you're not that young. 
You're not young. 

204
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:24,880
Where was it? 
2010. 

205
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,480
OK, well, it was OK. 
So I remember watching it and 

206
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,640
remember being like, really 
like, oh, wow, I love this kind 

207
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,560
of like arty, edgy film. 
And I got like an arty, edgy 

208
00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:41,520
limited edition print thing and 
put it up and I was just like, 

209
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:46,080
yeah, this is like. 
I'm an artist, yeah, I'm into. 

210
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,000
I'm not like the other girls. 
Yeah, I'm a cool girl. 

211
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,560
Yeah, so that was it. 
And then I just hadn't watched 

212
00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:53,320
it. 
And these kind of films amazed 

213
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,480
me because at the time they're 
so critically acclaimed and 

214
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,600
everyone bangs on about them, 
but so many of them just get 

215
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,600
buried, don't they? 
And just like, forgotten about. 

216
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,720
Like, I don't feel people talk 
about Black Swan anymore. 

217
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,520
I don't feel like it's. 
Yeah, I know what you mean. 

218
00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:07,760
So it was interesting to rewatch
it because I was like, Oh yeah, 

219
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,080
how about you? 
I also remember going to see it 

220
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:12,840
in the theatre. 
I think I really liked it. 

221
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,000
I remember thinking at the time,
this is show Girls in High Art. 

222
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,040
I didn't make the connection 
back then, but obviously 

223
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,960
watching it now, I'm like, 
right, OK, it's nearly shot for 

224
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,120
shot Showgirls. 
Yeah. 

225
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,360
I think I watched it again, I 
don't know, sometime in the 

226
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:30,960
interim, and then watched again 
this week. 

227
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,480
I what? 
I didn't remember. 

228
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,400
I was expecting a bit more of a 
romp because in my head it's 

229
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,680
taken in. 
It's kind of taken up a place 

230
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,560
that Showgirls has of like 
melodrama, kind of like a silly 

231
00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:44,600
premise. 
It's quite depressing, yeah. 

232
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,920
Oh yeah. 
It's quite unnerving 1. 

233
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,280
I will say about showgirls, you 
know, for all of it's like 

234
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,680
weaknesses is you don't walk 
away feeling traumatised by it. 

235
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,400
This is like, Oh yeah, yeah, 
this is a subliminal for abuse, 

236
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,680
this part. 
Yeah, I've been really, like, 

237
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,640
psychologically tormented for a 
couple of hours by Darren 

238
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,680
Aronofsky, but I'm glad to be 
talking about this movie today. 

239
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,960
So what is Black Swan? 
Black Swan is a 2010 American 

240
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,080
psychological horror thriller 
directed by Darren Aronofsky 

241
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:19,000
from a screenplay by Mark 
Heyman, John McLaughlin and 

242
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,480
Andre Hynes. 
So it's directed by a man and 

243
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,920
written by three men. 
Which is really fabulous for the

244
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,560
subject matter that this takes 
on. 

245
00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:29,640
Yeah, I love that for it. 
The film stars Natalie Portman 

246
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,080
in the lead role. 
First, our first Natalie 

247
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:33,280
Portman. 
I believe so. 

248
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,240
Welcome, welcome. 
To the podcast, Natalie Portman 

249
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,640
and Mila Kunis. 
First time. 

250
00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:39,360
Welcome to the. 
Podcast. 

251
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,840
I just say camp crush Mila 
Kunis. 

252
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,680
Camp crash. 
Yeah, I forgot I. 

253
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,840
I mean, she's hot. 
Yeah, and I, like, I kind of 

254
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,000
forgot because she's not done a 
lot recently, has she? 

255
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,880
And I was just like, Oh my God, 
Mila Kunis, you are fucking cool

256
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,840
and you are fucking hot. 
You've fallen victim to the cool

257
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,320
girl trap. 
I always fall victim to the cool

258
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,400
girl trap her Orby Plaza. 
Who else is there that all 

259
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,280
anyone that sort of is in that 
that like little niche. 

260
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,160
I'm always like, Oh my God, 
Patti Harrison, comedian is 

261
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,440
like. 
Yeah, but she is actually cool. 

262
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,800
The other is not cool then. 
Well, I guess what? 

263
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,520
Every Plaza is cool. 
Yeah, I'll be Plaza is cool. 

264
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,400
I think Mila Kunis is doing 
something a bit different in 

265
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,800
this movie, which is like, I am 
so cool and different. 

266
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,240
Like I fuck and I eat 
cheeseburgers. 

267
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,960
I'm not like other girls. 
I'm a cool girl. 

268
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,960
You can you can have sex with me
and I'll like it. 

269
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,200
Yeah, she's OK, but I still. 
She's basically like a theatre 

270
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,280
kid, like pretending to 
basically trying to figure out 

271
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,920
how how to appeal to men. 
Is that her vibe outside of 

272
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,040
acting there? 
I don't know. 

273
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,640
I don't know. 
I mean, she's married to Ashton 

274
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:44,920
Kutch. 
Yeah, didn't they, like, have a 

275
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,200
problem with like, I think they 
defended one of their 70s Show 

276
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,200
Co stars when he was accused of 
rape? 

277
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,760
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I remember. 

278
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,200
I mean, the film kind of does 
that as well that we're about to

279
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,600
talk about, but. 
Yeah, anyway, it's This movie 

280
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,320
also has Winona Ryder. 
Sensational Comeback So this was

281
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,760
her first movie since the 
shoplifting I. 

282
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,680
Think so, yeah. 
Big comeback, isn't it? 

283
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,320
Yeah. 
Always a delight to see Winona 

284
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,440
Ryder and something and we've 
got Barbara Hershey playing the 

285
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,520
mum, Erica and Vincent Castle 
as. 

286
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:20,320
Barbara Hershey, famous for. 
She is famous for I know she did

287
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,920
a movie called The Entity which 
is supposed to be really good, 

288
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,520
where she's being like sexually 
assaulted by a ghost. 

289
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,280
I. 
Mean, that's not funny, but kind

290
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,120
of his. 
Oh, she's in beaches. 

291
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,600
Oh. 
Which I've never seen. 

292
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,800
Oh yeah? 
Oh my God, you've never seen 

293
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:35,760
beaches? 
No. 

294
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,240
OK, I think we should talk about
beaches on this podcast. 

295
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:39,680
Oh really? 
Is it camp? 

296
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,400
Isn't it just depressing? 
Melodramatic, but it's also very

297
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:44,240
calm. 
OK, great. 

298
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:45,040
Yeah. 
In my. 

299
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,920
Well, I haven't watched it for 
years, but yeah, Barbara 

300
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,040
Hershey, What I will say is the 
facelift is lifting. 

301
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,320
Yeah, it's just that flat skin 
over the ear, but. 

302
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,320
It works for the caricature. 
Oh yeah, definitely, definitely.

303
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,400
This movie had a $13 million 
budget, and do you know how much

304
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,240
it took worldwide? 
No it. 

305
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,760
Was a huge hit, $330 million. 
Shit, Yeah. 

306
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:07,920
One of the top movies of the 
year. 

307
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,760
Has there been like, you know, 
when they do like the sequels 

308
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,640
that are like with none of the 
cast, it feels like there should

309
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,680
be a Black Swan too. 
I guess for all his faults, we 

310
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,200
can give Darren Aronofsky that 
that he's probably a bit 

311
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,840
precious about his. 
And hasn't, yeah. 

312
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,360
Yeah, but yeah, you're right. 
Or you could imagine like. 

313
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,480
With Denise Richards in it or 
something? 

314
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,960
Yeah, where's the like Prime TV 
miniseries? 

315
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,000
Oh God, yeah. 
With Denise. 

316
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,640
Richards. 
I'd watch. 

317
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,920
So not only was it a commercial 
success, it was also a critical 

318
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,880
success. 
It's got 85% on Rotten Tomatoes.

319
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,160
What's it doing on this podcast?
Honestly. 

320
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,120
And it had five Oscar 
nominations, including Best 

321
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,200
picture, best Director and 
Natalie Portman won best 

322
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,720
actress. 
So it won the like, big three, 

323
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,240
but that's what I'm saying. 
Win all three. 

324
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,720
It just won Best Actress, but it
was nominated for Yeah. 

325
00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,160
But still, I do think this film 
has kind of been forgotten about

326
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,840
slightly. 
Interesting. 

327
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,320
In 2021, Natalie Portman's 
performance was included in the 

328
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,560
New Yorkers list of the best 
film performances of the 21st 

329
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,760
century. 
So people still think it's good.

330
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:12,920
Oh, OK. 
Well, then yeah. 

331
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,600
Yeah. 
It's interesting when Natalie 

332
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,040
Portman isn't it? 
And I know we'll get into it, 

333
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,880
but do you remember when she 
first sort of came into the 

334
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,360
screens in Star Wars Queen 
Amidala? 

335
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,720
Everybody was banging on about 
how wooden she was for so long. 

336
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,440
It's just great that she's. 
Yeah, let's really the plot. 

337
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,120
Yes. 
OK, let's do the plot. 

338
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,920
So we meet Nina Sayers, who is 
Natalie Portman. 

339
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,360
She's a young dancer with the 
New York City Ballet who lives 

340
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,560
with her overprotective mother, 
Erica, played by Barbara 

341
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,720
Hershey, who is a former 
ballerina. 

342
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,480
And like the beginning scene, 
very arty, setting the tone, 

343
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,840
very stylistic as a very filmic 
quality to it. 

344
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,040
And she's just dancing in the 
spotlight, isn't she? 

345
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,280
She's dancing, and then she's 
dancing with her partner, and 

346
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,080
her partner transforms into a 
bird monster. 

347
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,760
Which is giving like boulet 
brothers drag king thing like 

348
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,840
slay them honey. 
So true. 

349
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,760
But looks gorgeous. 
Yeah, yeah, she's a ballerina. 

350
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,560
She's and the company she's in 
is opening the season with 

351
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,119
Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake. 
We learned that the current 

352
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,720
prima ballerina Beth, played by 
Winona Ryder. 

353
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,960
Beth is being forced into 
retirement. 

354
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,640
Can I say that when we see her, 
the picture of her on the poster

355
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,400
outside the venue? 
Yes, serving cunt Winona, she is

356
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,480
good. 
Purse, Purse. 

357
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,440
Yeah, she gets so little screen 
time in this, but she does make 

358
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,280
it count. 
Yeah, she really does. 

359
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,840
But yeah, when she when I saw 
that poster, which I was like, 

360
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:40,960
that's why was it. 
But straight away I'm like, hi 

361
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,720
Crystal. 
It's very showgirls that isn't 

362
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:43,920
it? 
Oh. 

363
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,040
My God, you're so right. 
Crystal Connors is Goddess, 

364
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,560
Winona Ryder is Swan Lake. 
Yeah it's so true. 

365
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,080
I should just get this out of 
the way now. 

366
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,520
Have you seen the mash up 
trailer where someone has taken 

367
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,960
the dialogue from the trailer of
Black Swan and put it over 

368
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,920
scenes from Showgirls? 
No, it is. 

369
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,440
Amazing. 
I've never didn't even know that

370
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,840
was a thing. 
Yeah, I will link it in our 

371
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,240
carousel for this episode. 
You should. 

372
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:13,520
Really. 
OK, watch. 

373
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,000
It and I will show it to you 
after this. 

374
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,760
It's perfect. 
But yeah, Beth is being forced 

375
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,200
into retirement and we see her 
trashing her dressing room 

376
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,440
because she's furious to be 
pushed out and out. 

377
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,240
That's always going to be camp. 
Camp clue. 

378
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,120
Yeah, listen. 
Someone smashing a mirror. 

379
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,480
A lot someone a hysterical 
woman. 

380
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,880
That trope never gets old. 
It's always fun to see. 

381
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,480
And then that creepy little 
pervy little freak that hasn't 

382
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,160
unleashed a freak goes into the 
room and steals some bits, 

383
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,000
doesn't she? 
She takes her lipstick. 

384
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,160
We're like, oh, I thought this 
person was going to be our hero.

385
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:50,800
Yeah, and she's got like a 
little. 

386
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,760
She's a bit sneaky, creepy, 
gross. 

387
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,440
Yeah, listen to that Natalie 
Port. 

388
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,040
Yeah, Sneaky, creepy, gross 
person. 

389
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,000
Artistic Director Tomah 
announces he's looking for a new

390
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,160
dancer for the dual roles of the
innocent and fragile White Swan 

391
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,080
and the sensual and dark Black 
Swan. 

392
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,560
I like even he admits that 
that's a fucking basic ass show 

393
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,280
to kick off the season with 
though, isn't it? 

394
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,720
Because like, I mean it, it 
works for the audience as well. 

395
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,920
Because people that don't know 
ballet, it's like that of a 

396
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,160
Nutcracker, isn't it? 
Really it's. 

397
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,800
Really the only two ballets I 
could name I've seen Swan like. 

398
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,120
Have you? 
Yeah, I haven't. 

399
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,960
I don't really remember it, but 
it's, you know, impressive. 

400
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,120
I. 
Don't want to be working in 

401
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:32,000
ballet. 
What I will say is as well, he's

402
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,560
like, we're going to deconstruct
it and make it edgy and 

403
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,880
different. 
And it's like everything I saw 

404
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,080
is what I know. 
Yeah, doesn't seem that way. 

405
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,000
This is the first time we hear 
him explain how the white swan 

406
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,000
is the good one and the Black 
Swan is the sexy bad. 

407
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,560
One well, I'm really glad that 
they do that because otherwise 

408
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,800
it would be really hard to 
follow the twists and turns that

409
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,840
this narrative takes in regard 
to that. 

410
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,520
I mean, it's not like it's the 
most literal thing that is 

411
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,480
consistently parallel through 
the entire movie. 

412
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,040
One of like meant maybe 7 times 
in the movie. 

413
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,600
He's like, you're too frigid. 
You're white swan. 

414
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,720
I need you to be sexy slutty 
Black Swan. 

415
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,680
That is basically it. 
You know what it gives you 

416
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,040
parallels to. 
I know who killed me with the 

417
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,000
blue and the with. 
The blue and the red, you're 

418
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,280
right. 
It's the red Or is it just blue?

419
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,280
Yeah, it's red and blue. 
Yeah, red and blue, the two 

420
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,520
sides of the coin. 
Yeah, I was just like, wow, this

421
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,160
is the same cinematic universe. 
Yeah. 

422
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,360
Are you a poet and a writer, or 
are you a bad girl stripper? 

423
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:30,720
Yeah. 
And why can't you be built 

424
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:34,560
there? 
I think we covered the movie. 

425
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:35,880
Yeah, I think. 
I think that's it. 

426
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,840
So Nina auditions for the Swan 
Queen and Let. 

427
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,280
Me tell you something. 
Sorry to interrupt you. 

428
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,600
It's hard being a ballerina from
the get go, isn't it? 

429
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,080
We're seeing lots of brutal, 
like close-ups of ties. 

430
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,040
Yeah, and like the sound 
effects, you get a real like 

431
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,680
Foley of like bones. 
Crunching. 

432
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:56,920
Crunching. 
Yeah, she's. 

433
00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:00,560
Getting Massage Mother delivers 
a delicious breakfast of a 

434
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,480
grapefruit and an egg. 
It's so pink. 

435
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,120
It looks horrible, doesn't it? 
And the whole grading of the 

436
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,200
entire, I have filmed this 
world, we're sort of set up that

437
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,280
everything is so dark, cold. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

438
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,480
Paints are really like nasty 
image of the industry. 

439
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,600
Yeah, I think it's probably 
unfair really, because Natalie 

440
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,480
Portman, like, she doesn't seem 
to be doing it because she loves

441
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,120
it. 
She's doing it because she's 

442
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,920
like, determined to be the best.
You know things where it's like,

443
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,840
hey, keep this thing alive even 
though like no one cares about 

444
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,840
this anymore. 
That's good enough reason I. 

445
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,040
Guess, but I'm sure there's lots
of ballerinas who are like I. 

446
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,680
I love my dog, I mean. 
To do this mean the kudos 

447
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,920
doesn't even warm up. 
Yeah, she doesn't even have 

448
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,640
techniques. 
She's coming from drinking and 

449
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,760
she just dances. 
And suddenly as we're talking. 

450
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,200
1/3 option which is someone who 
likes their job and takes it 

451
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,760
seriously. 
Yeah, and probably having a 

452
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,120
nice. 
Yeah, I bet a lot of ballerinas 

453
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:52,840
were like, pissed about this 
movie. 

454
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:55,080
All respect to the ballet and 
opera people out there. 

455
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,360
So Ninas auditioning, she gives 
a flawless performance as the 

456
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:01,320
White Swan because she's 
perfect. 

457
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,720
Pure innocent virgin baby girl 
but when she tries to do the 

458
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,560
blacks one she trips and that's 
because Lily has walked in. 

459
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,120
That's Mila Kunis and. 
What I will say about her 

460
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,240
audition and like the process of
watching her, I don't know why 

461
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,360
she did make it to the next 
stage of the auditions because 

462
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:19,560
she's already like fucking 
freaking out. 

463
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,280
Like all of the other ballerinas
are like smiling and dancing and

464
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,200
just doing the work on the bar. 
And she's just like a psycho 

465
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,440
paranoid, like head scattering 
around looking at the director. 

466
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,040
It's like you're not well enough
to dance this baby. 

467
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,040
You're. 
So, right, I think anyone 

468
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,520
looking at her for any amount of
time would be like, this girl 

469
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,680
needs some help. 
Yeah. 

470
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,640
It's like, are you OK? 
Yeah, yeah, You know, she does 

471
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:43,400
get in. 
She gets. 

472
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,560
And then we see Mila, Mila 
giving that kind of. 

473
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,440
Oh, I love it. 
Oh God, I've got such a sweet 

474
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:55,080
spot for it, that 2010 smoky IB,
you know, that kind of it's like

475
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,520
half sort of oh, I'm just 
wearing a pencil skirt in the 

476
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,440
office kind of thing. 
Big blowout, bit edgy bit rock 

477
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,240
chick there's. 
Like a bit like, did I sleep in 

478
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,880
this makeup? 
Maybe, yeah. 

479
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,520
But I don't have to pull off 
that. 

480
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,440
Kind of like Pussycat Dolls, 
Christina Aguilera, like sort of

481
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,560
weird filter. 
Do you know what I mean? 

482
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,920
Of like, not much makeup, but 
lots of makeup. 

483
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:19,520
I love it. 
Obsessed. 

484
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,600
She looks amazing. 
She really, really does. 

485
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,200
Yeah. 
She's so hot. 

486
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,280
It'd be really fun to just have 
like that of yourself on film 

487
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,400
looking like that. 
We say this all the time, yeah. 

488
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,520
I love that this is an Oscar 
nominated film and this is what 

489
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,960
we're talking. 
About their girls are hot. 

490
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,400
The rules of feminism. 
The next day, Nina asks Toma to 

491
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,560
reconsider and he kisses her 
unexpectedly and she bites him 

492
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,320
and runs out of his office. 
And so this is our first glimpse

493
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,240
into him as a sexual predator. 
Yeah. 

494
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,240
Later, Nina is surprised to find
she has gotten the lead. 

495
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,120
Well, don't skip over because I 
love that other girl over. 

496
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,160
It's literally she's one of us 
because she's like, they're 

497
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,320
waiting. 
They're like sort of doing, 

498
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,720
they're sitting on the floor 
getting ready, waiting for the 

499
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,400
who's got the part in the the 
ballet and crazy cuckoo Nina is 

500
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,040
just staring at the other 
ballerinas and the other one is 

501
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,040
basically like, what the fuck 
are you looking at? 

502
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,720
Why is she always staring at me?
Yeah. 

503
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:25,920
It's just like you see her 
craziness and then crazy lady 

504
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,800
says to her, oh, you know, well 
done. 

505
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,560
And and then she thinks she's 
got the part, and then she 

506
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,240
doesn't have the part, does she?
That's right. 

507
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,440
I love that she doesn't get 
enough time. 

508
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,080
That girl like. 
She's the one that you were you 

509
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,440
were talking about like she's 
not the one that's losing her 

510
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,600
mind over being a ballerina. 
And she's also the one that's 

511
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,760
not taking it seriously. 
She's the one that's training 

512
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,880
quite good at it and just loving
life. 

513
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,440
Yeah, she's the the real story 
of this. 

514
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,440
Yeah, she's also a bitch, but I 
like her for that. 

515
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,000
Yeah, but so Nina's gotten the 
lead. 

516
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,760
He gave her the part because she
bit his lip and he's like, oh, 

517
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,960
she could be bad, she could be 
dangerous. 

518
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,160
She might not be just a good 
girl. 

519
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,400
She calls her mom in from the 
toilet. 

520
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,800
And then this is where we get 
the great shot of her seeing 

521
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,240
whore written on the mirror and 
lipstick you. 

522
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:19,160
See darling, you are a whore. 
And again, it's like just when 

523
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,320
you thought you've stepped into 
a film that is like, you know, a

524
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,720
bit more highbrow. 
It's not going to be using the 

525
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,040
same old tropes. 
No, we're in full on Showgirls 

526
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,160
territory here. 
Someone is coming for her and is

527
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,920
writing it in a blood red 
lipstick. 

528
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,240
You see, darlin, you are a 
whore. 

529
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,120
I love the memes of her trying 
to scrub horror off the mirror. 

530
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,320
Like, there's been fabulous 
memes and this movie is worth it

531
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,320
being made just for those. 
So Nina goes home, and then 

532
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,440
there's the cake scene. 
What happens with the cake? 

533
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,480
Well, her mum has bought this 
elaborate fucking cake and the 

534
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,680
world's largest sheet cake. 
Yeah. 

535
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,400
And it's like, for two of them, 
it's like, well done. 

536
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,360
And then it's cutting her like a
huge slice. 

537
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,320
And then this is where we're 
getting sort of an insight into 

538
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,800
clearly one of many traumas that
Nina has in her life. 

539
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,000
And it's implied that obviously 
eating is something that she, 

540
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,560
she struggles with. 
And yet you've got this scene 

541
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,040
where then the mum's like, oh, 
OK, fine, don't eat it. 

542
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,960
It's nothing. 
I think it's useless, it's 

543
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,800
rubbish and she throws it away 
and then Nina's then is forced 

544
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,080
to kind of sit there and enjoy 
eating the cake and it just sort

545
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,680
of really shows their 
relationship from the get go. 

546
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,600
Very effective, very fucked up 
relationship, the two of them. 

547
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,640
And at this point, you still 
don't really understand what her

548
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,120
mum is, what her mum's back 
story is. 

549
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,120
This is also where we see that 
she's got paintings of Nina all 

550
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:39,840
over the apartment. 
Oh yeah, just drop that. 

551
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,000
Oh. 
Yeah, this is some mummy 

552
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,280
dearest, Yeah. 
It really is like it really is 

553
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,840
this movie. 
All of the movies we know and 

554
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,520
love to talk about on this 
podcast. 

555
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,280
You can see a bit of them in 
this movie. 

556
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,760
Yeah, Faye Dunaway is there in 
that Faye. 

557
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,480
Dunaway is right there. 
Christina Aguilera in burlesque 

558
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,960
is is in the room. 
Crystal Connors is here. 

559
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,040
Lindsay Lohan. 
And I know who killed me. 

560
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,800
You got a bit of barbed wire. 
I'm not. 

561
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,960
What barbed wire is it or you 
just? 

562
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,080
I don't know, you know. 
Okay, why not? 

563
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,640
Why not? 
Sure, Chuck it. 

564
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,080
Chuck in that for shits and 
giggles. 

565
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,680
She's a cool. 
Girl, I don't know. 

566
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:23,000
Barb Wire is not in this movie. 
I'll let you have the others, 

567
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,320
but Barb Wire is not here. 
But it's very much in the in the

568
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,120
category of movies that I think 
we need to just have in our mind

569
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,000
now, which is there's always 
someone younger and hungry. 

570
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,040
Hungry are coming down the 
stairs. 

571
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,480
And it's also got a bit of notes
on the scandal on it. 

572
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,720
It's got a yeah because. 
The soundtrack is the 

573
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,960
spiralling, melodramatic 
instrumental school which I I 

574
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,720
feel like home now. 
Now that we've done Notes on the

575
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,120
Scandal, I feel safe in that 
soundtrack space. 

576
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:48,760
Totally just. 
Spiralling out of control with 

577
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,040
like an orchestra. 
With lesbian tension yeah makes 

578
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,560
me really want to do all about 
eve yes okay there's a gala 

579
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,840
celebrating the new season Tamar
announces beths retirement and 

580
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,880
he's yeah. 
Where did they say sorry? 

581
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,200
Did you suck his cock? 
You're a fucking little. 

582
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,520
Whore, that's coming up. 
Okay, sorry, yeah, I just wanted

583
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,640
to make sure we talked about 
that. 

584
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,480
So this is the gala Toma is 
announcing best retirement. 

585
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,160
He's like, she's fucking old. 
He's like the biggest put down. 

586
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,600
Again. 
We see the same camera angles in

587
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,280
Showgirls, Yeah, when it's like 
we could have brought. 

588
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:28,080
Anyone into this show? 
Latoya, Suzanne, you name it. 

589
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,200
But yeah, there she is in the 
crowd, doesn't get a word, 

590
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,440
doesn't get to stand on the 
stage. 

591
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,680
She's just there in the audience
and they're shitting all over 

592
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:36,720
Winona. 
Yeah. 

593
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,480
And yeah, it's like, look how 
old she is. 

594
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,600
Do you know how old Winona is 
when she made this movie? 

595
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,680
Oh God. 
I'm sat down to tell me. 38, 

596
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,720
She's 38. 
I mean, you watch channel. 

597
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,080
I mean, it's what you've been 
trained to think because I was 

598
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,080
watching it like you're old and 
passed it. 

599
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,160
Winona past it. 
Yeah, she's 38, she's getting 

600
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,880
drunk, she's pissed off, she's 
not happy about her retirement. 

601
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,640
Nina goes to the bathroom and 
she's hallucinating some 

602
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,080
disgusting finger picking body 
horror stuff. 

603
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,360
Yeah, this is the point where 
you're like, you need to go and 

604
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,640
get a proper manicure. 
Yeah, because your nails are all

605
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:13,280
over the show. 
Go. 

606
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,840
See Noemi Malone. 
Yeah, you get her nails. 

607
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,560
Thanks yeah because her nails 
are monkey and mine are 

608
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,760
disgusting but mine are like. 
Oh, she does that thing where 

609
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,920
she like, peels A hangnail and 
it like peels up her whole 

610
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:28,560
finger. 
It is. 

611
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,320
Leave it alone own leave your 
fingernails alone. 

612
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,680
But it's a hallucination or is 
it probably Lily also comes into

613
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,040
the bathroom and they're having 
a chat and then she takes off 

614
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,680
her panties for some reason. 
Well, because you know she can. 

615
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:43,960
She's a cool girl. 
She's a cool girl. 

616
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,720
She's cool girl. 
Inside you there are two Swans, 

617
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,120
ones a cool slut. 
Are the inside of me right now? 

618
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,080
You would thought I would have 
noticed that well. 

619
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,640
Then an intoxicated Beth 
publicly accuses Nina of 

620
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,880
providing sexual favours to 
Tamar in return for the role. 

621
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,280
Yes, OK. 
Did you suck his cock? 

622
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,320
You're a fucking little whore. 
No, no, it's brilliant work. 

623
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,280
And also it's giving me Julianne
Moore. 

624
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,000
In most of Julianne Moore's 
films, after she's had a couple 

625
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,680
of drinks, you never got eye 
makeup going down like, oh, the 

626
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,320
booze, the booze. 
Booze always wins, doesn't it? 

627
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,240
She's wearing a lovely dress. 
Too. 

628
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,320
I mean what I will say about 
when I never write this 

629
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,200
character. 
They really haven't attempted to

630
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:26,960
give her any depth at all, have 
they? 

631
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,960
No, it's like jealous. 
What if you? 

632
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,800
Were a tired old showgirl. 
That's it, yeah. 

633
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,720
Oh, Diary of a showgirl. 
Oh yeah, it's. 

634
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,240
Yeah, well, there's the PAMI 
connection, not barbed wire. 

635
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,440
Nina goes home with Toma and 
he's really fucking gross to her

636
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,920
and he gives her homework to go 
home and masturbate. 

637
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,280
Every time you mention him, I 
just breathe in and pause. 

638
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,400
There's a lot to unpack with his
character and how it's presented

639
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,400
in this story, isn't. 
Yeah, we can get there. 

640
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,280
Yeah, so she does. 
She goes home, she's having a 

641
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,360
wank. 
I know I'm just saying that, but

642
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,880
then that's it just makes me 
laugh. 

643
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,840
I know she really struggles, 
Blair So doesn't she? 

644
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,920
Doesn't really know what she's 
doing but she does have a good 

645
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,320
try and then jump cut scare to 
her mum who is in the room 

646
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,960
sleeping in the chair. 
It's a great, it's a great. 

647
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,600
Moment she would have known she 
was there. 

648
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,000
I don't know. 
How gross. 

649
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:29,160
The next day, Nina hears Beth 
has been hit in a car accident 

650
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,800
and Toma believes she was 
attempting suicide. 

651
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,400
Nina visits Beth in the hospital
and is distraught to see her 

652
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,960
injured legs. 
She's never going to dance 

653
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,080
again. 
Again, showgirls. 

654
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,400
Yeah, it's hospital. 
Visit It's really all there. 

655
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,360
Then there's some more 
unraveling, more hallucinations,

656
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,160
more body horror, more 
rehearsals, more sexual assault 

657
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,560
from Toma and Erica is painting 
portraits of Nina and sobbing. 

658
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,480
Lots more bits of Toma being 
like no you're too nice and 

659
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,960
perfect and clean, you need to 
be a slut. 

660
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,560
Yeah, like, and then he kisses 
her and starts like, fingering 

661
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,160
her, grabbing her tits, and 
she's into it, which is a really

662
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,920
problematic thing. 
Then he's like, that was me 

663
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,800
seducing you, now you need to 
seduce me. 

664
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,240
He's awful. 
Yeah. 

665
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,560
One night, despite Erica's 
objections, Nina goes out with 

666
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:30,200
Lily for drinks. 
Now we've all been here, I 

667
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,640
think, haven't we? 
Which part? 

668
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:38,960
We'll just, I actually, well, 
let's set it up a bit more now. 

669
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,400
The first part of this night, 
it's really problematic because 

670
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,680
Mila Kunis is offering her 
drugs, isn't she? 

671
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,000
And that's not the. 
That's not the problem, no. 

672
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:49,880
That's fine. 
That part is fine. 

673
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,120
And it's like, come on, listen 
up, you know, last two hours. 

674
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,200
Lily spends 2 minutes of Nina is
like wow, this girl is buttoned 

675
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,800
up. 
Yeah, she needs to let loose. 

676
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,320
But Nina doesn't want to take 
the drugs so she and then she 

677
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,960
goes away. 
She's been given an outfit that 

678
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,320
Mila Kunis has on which is black
and slightly slutty. 

679
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,880
Oh my God, is she dipping her 
toes into the Black Swan? 

680
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,960
And then she as she comes back 
we see Mila Kunis with two guys 

681
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,280
having a laugh and about to 
spike Nina's drink. 

682
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,800
Yep, that's it. 
She is going to spike her 

683
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,440
because she thinks she's too 
frigid. 

684
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,440
And So what would you do in that
situation? 

685
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,160
Who am I? 
You are Nina. 

686
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,840
I mean, I'd take the drink. 
Yeah, but you, you're drinking, 

687
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,320
you're having it already. 
You didn't need to spike me. 

688
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,680
It's pretty fucking weird to 
then go and hang out and be like

689
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,480
oh this is this the one you 
spiked? 

690
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,080
I'll have it then. 
I guess she knows that like 

691
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,280
lilies, intentions are for her 
to have fun. 

692
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,640
That is mental. 
It is. 

693
00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:59,960
I mean, it is. 
It is but. 

694
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,080
I think she does. 
She doesn't even know her. 

695
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,640
The thing is with this character
is that she's like desperate to 

696
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,560
please, isn't she? 
So she's like, and she's got no 

697
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,880
fucking clue. 
So as soon as someone is like do

698
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,800
this, she's like, OK. 
Yeah, I mean, it's wild that she

699
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,440
then. 
Yeah, but then goes on to have 

700
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,440
what looks like a really fun 
time, actually. 

701
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,520
Yeah, it looks like suddenly 
they've gone from like a shit 

702
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,920
Chelsea esque cocktail bar with 
some fucking wankers to her 

703
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,520
being in the toilet cubicle 
making out with a hot guy in a 

704
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,040
dirty club. 
And I'm like, suddenly I'm robe.

705
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,120
I'm like, we've gone to the 
right place, we've gone to the. 

706
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,199
Right place now, yeah, that was 
the wrong place beforehand, 

707
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:38,840
yeah. 
And I was like, yeah, that's the

708
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,080
fun place. 
I mean, it's a camp clue, but I 

709
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,400
love like scene of a of a woman 
cutting loose and she's like, 

710
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:48,400
she's had some drugs. 
She's like embracing the dark 

711
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,719
side and she's like, I'm going 
to go out and fucking dance. 

712
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,880
Yeah, and just like, fucking own
it on the floor. 

713
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,360
And like, it's very Christina 
Aguilera. 

714
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,520
I'm not myself tonight. 
Very there. 

715
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,840
Isn't it just like, but don't I 
think everybody loves that, You 

716
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,520
know, when it's just like every 
now and again, you might just be

717
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,240
like, I'm just going to lose me 
and you lose friends along the 

718
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:08,960
way and you're just like, I'm 
just going to be someone 

719
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,920
completely different. 
I'm just gonna lose myself under

720
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,760
those splashing lights, yeah. 
Is that this? 

721
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,520
My God, There's a Sugar Babe 
song that's come to mind. 

722
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,360
You know the Sugar Babes one, 
Then their last variation. 

723
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,160
Yeah, there was like a really 
bad song where it's like I like 

724
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,840
the lights and the games they 
play, and it's like strobe 

725
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,000
lights. 
Other moment, other notable 

726
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,080
times has happened. 
Buffy and Faith and Buffy they 

727
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,360
have they have like a wild night
out where they go dancing in 

728
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,960
girls. 
What's her face has coke and 

729
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,600
like I think it's the Dancing on
My Own by Robin. 

730
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,560
And I like the great trope. 
I like the way they go. 

731
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:46,760
I mean, obviously it's not a 
comedy. 

732
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,160
I hate it when it's like they do
it and then the troopers, they 

733
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,680
like, they're like crazy and 
kooky and they've done 

734
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,880
something. 
I like it when it's like unleash

735
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,520
the pop video vixen in them. 
Yeah. 

736
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,240
And the bit that I really relate
to, I think they've done, I 

737
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:01,960
think the way that they filmed 
all of that. 

738
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,360
And like when she leaves the 
club and it's all kind of like 

739
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:06,600
the air's hitting her and she's 
a bit. 

740
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,280
I I feel like that was quite 
authentic and I'm like, well, 

741
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,040
I've been there. 
Yeah. 

742
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,640
The other bit though, that I was
just that it leads onto is I 

743
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,400
have definitely been in a 
nightclub where I have thought 

744
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,000
that I've been making out with 
myself. 

745
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,960
Like fully like she did in the 
film. 

746
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:27,160
It's like where I've been so 
high that I've literally thought

747
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,240
I was making out with myself. 
I had my own Black Swan moment. 

748
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,360
Like no, it was like it was 
years and years ago. 

749
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,880
Kissing someone. 
Yes, it was at Bergkine and they

750
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,560
must have looked similar ish to 
me, but I had a moment where I 

751
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,000
was like kissing myself and I 
remember just being to myself 

752
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,320
like you are so fucking stop 
right now go with it. 

753
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,280
You can't question it, just kiss
yourself. 

754
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,440
And then it obviously wasn't I 
well I don't know maybe it was 

755
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,480
my black sword moment, but I was
actually watching it and I was 

756
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,400
like I was like what does this 
remind me of? 

757
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,760
And then I was like I have done 
this exact same. 

758
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,880
This explains something. 
I think that's when you got 

759
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,400
replaced by your evil twin, and 
ever since we've been dealing 

760
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,440
with the dark version of you 
from Berlin. 

761
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:11,520
Honestly, yeah, I was like. 
The good baby Lane's been 

762
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,480
stabbed in a toilet cubicle in 
Bergheim. 

763
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:20,120
Bring back that baby Lane. 
But that scene, but then it goes

764
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,720
into, I haven't had sex with 
myself. 

765
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,600
I've never gone down on myself 
as far as I know. 

766
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,360
Maybe, hey, maybe I did, maybe I
don't remember. 

767
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,720
Tried. 
You're not flexible enough. 

768
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,760
Do people actually try? 
Everybody's tried. 

769
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,400
I mean, I must have tried, but I
think, I think with me, I think 

770
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,200
I knew that I wouldn't be able 
to like I can barely touch my 

771
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,840
toes, so I'm not going to be 
like deep throating myself. 

772
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,120
What about you with your big 
muscles? 

773
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,560
You bendy as well, Crystal. 
Let's move on. 

774
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,600
Oh, does that mean you can? 
Let's move on. 

775
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,640
No, but let's talk about the sex
scene. 

776
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,880
Yeah, no, we're, yeah. 
Because no, we're not quite 

777
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,280
there yet. 
Because she. 

778
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,280
I just want to shout out to the 
fact that she gets fingered in 

779
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,040
the back of a taxi. 
Oh, sorry, yeah. 

780
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:04,200
Have you ever? 
Fingered someone in the back of 

781
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,480
the taxi, yeah. 
Probably. 

782
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,960
I don't think I have. 
Maybe not fingered I. 

783
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,120
Don't know God, why? 
You don't have to, no. 

784
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,680
You can though. 
Well, I feel like I'm going to 

785
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,400
now. 
I remember giving someone a hand

786
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:23,040
job during the Sherlock Holmes 
sequel movie in the cinema in 

787
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:28,320
Brixton and it was really, 
really full and he had a coat 

788
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,320
over him and I remember just 
giving him a hand job. 

789
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,160
There we go, Sherlock Holmes 
too. 

790
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,280
I know. 
Like fucking hell. 

791
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,680
Oh. 
That's cute though. 

792
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,520
I like that. 
That's queering heteronormity. 

793
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,040
So I want to watch it with you 
so I can relive the experience 

794
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,120
with you. 
I don't know those were, but 

795
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,440
yeah, it's just like when you're
younger and you're like, I'm 

796
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,080
feeling really provocative now. 
Again, the Black Swan was in me.

797
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,120
We've all got our Black Swan 
moments, You know where it's 

798
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,800
just like, that's the Black Swan
noise. 

799
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,800
Yeah, your knees cracking and. 
Yeah. 

800
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,280
Sprouting and then before you 
know it, you're jerking off a 

801
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,120
stranger and every man to 
Sherlock Holmes. 

802
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,960
But then so we're in full on 
lesbo mode now, which we love. 

803
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,120
This is something that Showgirls
doesn't go this far. 

804
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,600
No. 
We, we want to see it in 

805
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:28,320
Showgirls, but they sort of dive
into their apartment, don't 

806
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,600
they? 
Like she's getting really like 

807
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,360
Larry with her mum. 
When her mum's like, what does 

808
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,920
she say? 
Her mum, she's like where have 

809
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,120
you been or who? 
Have you? 

810
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,120
Yeah. 
She's like the moon and back. 

811
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,880
Yeah, and then she's like, you 
want their names? 

812
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,440
And she's like, they fucked me 
or something like that. 

813
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,520
Yeah, she's really letting her. 
Rubbing it in her mum's face and

814
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,200
it's, it's a gorgeous thing to 
see. 

815
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,680
And then they Sprint into her 
bedroom, shut the door and then 

816
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,080
just lesbian scene, isn't it? 
Yeah, it's a a lot of 

817
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,640
cunnilingus. 
Deep, deep cunnilingus from Mila

818
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,080
Kunis, Yeah. 
Nina probably finally gets off. 

819
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,720
Yeah, well, you think. 
Yeah. 

820
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,040
I mean, she's like grunting and 
screaming. 

821
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,600
It reminded me of that story 
that you told me. 

822
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,160
It's very bold to be like having
sex in someone's house, isn't 

823
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,680
it? 
With the mother next door. 

824
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:26,120
I think if you listen to my 
Rolodex of memories, it was But 

825
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,560
I'm a Cheerleader podcast if you
need that story. 

826
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,720
If you haven't listened already,
Crystal tells a lovely tale. 

827
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:40,280
Julia, the AC The next morning, 
Nina wakes up. 

828
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,640
She's all confused. 
She's a bit hungover. 

829
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,440
She's late, she's got a show to 
do and. 

830
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,200
She's alone, and the route, the 
door that she barred shut from 

831
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,160
the inside is still barred shut.
Where the hell is Lily? 

832
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:56,240
So she rushes out and she sees 
Lily dancing as the Black Swan 

833
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:59,800
and confronts her about their 
sexual encounter. 

834
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,560
Lily's like, wait, what? 
I didn't go home with you. 

835
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,320
Did you have a Lesie dream about
me? 

836
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,200
Did you have a lesbian dream 
about me? 

837
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,880
Was I good? 
I like that. 

838
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,640
I like her response to it 
because she's like kind of not 

839
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,040
shaming her. 
No, no, she's. 

840
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,240
Kind of into it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

841
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:16,720
She wants to know what she was 
like in it. 

842
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:18,520
Yeah. 
Because you could imagine in a 

843
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,080
different movie that she'd be 
like, EW. 

844
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But she's not. 

845
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,960
And also it's like, it's really 
hard to know if that like that 

846
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,400
choice that was made by the 
writers and like, the creative 

847
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,400
team because obviously they're 
like men, as we decided. 

848
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,840
And there's lots of, like, gross
decisions made in this film. 

849
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,040
Yeah. 
It's interesting that they 

850
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,160
didn't go with that. 
Yeah, but yeah, so Nina imagined

851
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,480
it all, and then she's becoming 
convinced that Lily is intending

852
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,040
to replace her, especially after
learning that Toma has made Lily

853
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,680
her alternate. 
Oh. 

854
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,800
Nina's mysterious injuries and 
hallucinations grow most more 

855
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,400
severe. 
Yes, I hope she has. 

856
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,680
She's got like, back scratchy 
things. 

857
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,400
Her nails are falling off. 
We're seeing like she's giving 

858
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,280
me like Mystique in X-Men. 
Yeah, it's kind of like a 

859
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,400
rippling, scaly, feathery thing 
going on. 

860
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,120
So she's giving like it's like a
plucked goose. 

861
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,160
Texture, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

862
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,840
Like goose. 
Goose flesh, Yeah. 

863
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,720
Chicken skin. 
Yeah, she sees Lily and Toma 

864
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:24,680
having sex. 
Or does she? 

865
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,600
Toma also turns into Rothberg, 
the like, evil wizard. 

866
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,640
I don't know. 
She's having a time. 

867
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,360
She goes to the hospital and 
sees Winona and is like giving 

868
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,280
back all the things she stole 
and then Winona starts stabbing 

869
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,200
herself in the face with a 
letter opener. 

870
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,320
Yeah, that's gross. 
Isn't it really horrible? 

871
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,800
By this time I'm like, I forgot 
how body horror all of this is 

872
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,720
and she's really going for it. 
And again, pretty one note, 

873
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:52,280
Winona is just stabbing her 
face, but then she rushes off, 

874
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,360
doesn't she? 
She runs away and then she's 

875
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,360
she's drops the right. 
So it's like. 

876
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:58,800
Did that happen? 
Probably not. 

877
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,560
Or did she stab her? 
00. 

878
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,400
There's a lot. 
Of when she drops it, is it 

879
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,920
bloody? 
I don't know, can't remember. 

880
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,120
Yeah. 
It also like when on his face 

881
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,000
becomes her face right? 
Yeah. 

882
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,160
And that happens quite a few 
times. 

883
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:12,520
And that, you know, I've been 
there, yeah. 

884
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,560
You've literally been there. 
Anyway, it all culminates in an 

885
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,880
incident where she believes 
she's transforming into the 

886
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,720
Black Swan, and she has a huge 
blowout with her mother. 

887
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,800
She like, slams the door on her 
mum's hand. 

888
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,560
Oh, that's horrible. 
And yeah, she's like, basically 

889
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,440
losing her goddamn mind. 
America attempts to prevent Nina

890
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,800
from performing on opening 
night, and they fight some more 

891
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,480
and Nina leaves. 
She's going to do the show. 

892
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,280
I'm the Swan Queen and you never
left the core. 

893
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,480
I think the mum character is 
quite interesting because like, 

894
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,960
she's obviously overbearing, 
problematic, a little bit 

895
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,920
abusive, but she obviously also 
does really care. 

896
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,120
And I think there's an 
interesting, like they, they 

897
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,200
dial it up and down kind of 
interestingly. 

898
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:00,760
Yeah, yeah. 
Sometimes you're like, oh, this 

899
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,640
mom is like really worried about
her daughter and her daughter's 

900
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,000
mental health. 
But there is a very layered 

901
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,680
relationship because there's 
also a huge jealousy vibes from 

902
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,960
the daughter obsession. 
Yeah, yeah. 

903
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:12,400
It's really weird. 
Yeah. 

904
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,480
But also like that, that bond, 
like when she gets accepted into

905
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,400
the the ballet, she sells her 
mom and they're like, crying and

906
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,240
happy. 
Yeah. 

907
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,880
It's a really toxic, interesting
relationship. 

908
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,080
And it's, it could have so 
easily been much more mommy 

909
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,040
dearest ghoulish. 
And I like that it's. 

910
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,760
Got exploitation of the mum, but
again, you kind of don't know 

911
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,640
where you sit with the mum like 
she's not and. 

912
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,240
Also, how much of it is like in 
Nina's head? 

913
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,560
Yeah. 
So anyway, Lily was prepping to 

914
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,800
go on in Nina's place, but Nina 
convinces Toma to let her do the

915
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,680
part. 
She imagines her toes becoming 

916
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,120
webbed. 
Towards the end of the ballet's 

917
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,640
first act. 
Nina is distracted by a 

918
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,640
hallucination and loses her 
balance during a lift, causing 

919
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,040
the Prince to drop her, 
infuriating Tama, and she's 

920
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,760
devastated. 
All of all of her hard work. 

921
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:57,640
Yeah, yeah. 
And she? 

922
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,080
Can't even do the White Swan. 
That's the thing. 

923
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,840
She I. 
Know exactly like how shit are 

924
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,560
you? 
You know who can do it? 

925
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,520
Mila Kunis. 
Right, so Nina returns to her 

926
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,000
dressing room and there is Mila 
Kunis Lily preparing to play the

927
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,440
Black Swan in her dressing room.
She's like in her. 

928
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:14,120
Room. 
Yeah, I know. 

929
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,400
Psycho, isn't she? 
So she confronts her and as 

930
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,560
they're fighting, Lily 
transforms into Nina and then so

931
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,360
then the two ninas are fighting.
They break a mirror and Nina 

932
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,360
stabs bad Nina with a Shard of 
glass, killing her and breaking 

933
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,120
the illusion, and she turns back
into Lily. 

934
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,160
And then she drags her dead 
corpse into the shower room and 

935
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,760
she gets on with the show. 
Doesn't That's showbiz, kids. 

936
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,280
That's what you've got to do. 
Sometimes you have to just pick 

937
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,160
up the pieces and go to town. 
There's always someone younger 

938
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,080
and hungrier coming down the 
stairs after you. 

939
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,640
The show must go on. 
She then dances Florida State as

940
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,520
the Black Swan and she begins to
turn into a swan. 

941
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,280
I love as the Black Swan, like 
the red, the red. 

942
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:04,040
Eyes the like determination, her
face, the the net mask. 

943
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,800
And what I will say is, although
like we've been signposted this 

944
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,480
all the way through the film 
about like, you're too pretty. 

945
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,520
You need to be more seductive, 
you need to be dangerous, you 

946
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,440
need to lose your technique, it 
really, she really does. 

947
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,760
And like, the choreography and 
the movement is suddenly like, 

948
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,640
really different to what we've 
seen her doing. 

949
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,160
And it's like, beautiful the way
it's all shot, isn't it? 

950
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,000
Totally. 
It's she plays the Nina role so 

951
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,080
annoying, infantile, like you're
so you just like want to shake 

952
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:32,400
her and like tell her to grow 
up. 

953
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,560
Snap out of it. 
Stop being like this. 

954
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,960
And it's kind of annoying. 
But then when you see the other 

955
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,920
side of her, you're like, oh, 
you were doing a really good job

956
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,200
of convincing me that that was 
you. 

957
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,480
Yeah, because when there's a bit
where she starts like breathing 

958
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,720
and feeling her body and it's so
monstrous and just like it's, 

959
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:50,880
it's really impressive 
performance, I think. 

960
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,120
Her arms are covered in 
feathers, she does the like 34 

961
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,600
turns which are famous in Swan 
Lake, and she gets a standing 

962
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,960
ovation from the audience and 
then rushes off stage and kisses

963
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,080
Tomah. 
She's like I've embraced the 

964
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,760
dark side. 
Yeah, I mean that part. 

965
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,640
Grim in her dressing room, she 
Nina starts to costume change 

966
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,280
back into the white Swan makeup,
but she's interrupted by. 

967
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,080
Literally not jealous of that. 
That must be quite stressful on 

968
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,360
top of what else she's got to go
on. 

969
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,240
It's hard when you've done one, 
when you've done one makeup look

970
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,240
to go in and out. 
Changing makeup looks. 

971
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,280
Multiple times. 
I mean, that's enough to send 

972
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,000
anyone crazy, quite frankly, 
isn't it? 

973
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:36,000
Because like, what she'd been 
setting her face with, you know,

974
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,520
it's like, not only is she 
having to perform and become a 

975
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,080
dark song, which she's never 
been able to achieve before, she

976
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,760
also has to do her own hair and 
makeup. 

977
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,320
And I just think I feel quite 
sorry for. 

978
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,440
So much black gel liner on in 
that black. 

979
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,360
Black gel liner though it's. 
Hard to get off that's on you 

980
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,880
for days after. 
And she's got to go back to 

981
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,440
being the wife. 
I think that's enough to send 

982
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:57,760
anyone crazy. 
You know what? 

983
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,120
You would kill your rival. 
Killed Liz, I killed the teen 

984
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:02,800
Dream. 
Deal with it. 

985
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:08,760
Yes, that's why you should never
go into the cupboards at Bethel 

986
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,000
Green working Men's Club because
they are full of dead people. 

987
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,000
Yes, we had no choice. 
Absolutely. 

988
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,480
It was the makeup. 
So she's changing back. 

989
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,440
The door knocks. 
It's Lily. 

990
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,880
She's not dead. 
She congratulates Nina on her 

991
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,640
performance. 
But, but, but she's supposed to 

992
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:26,880
be dead. 
What's going? 

993
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,760
On. 
Nina then sees that the mirror 

994
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,840
is still broken. 
So what's happened? 

995
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,280
And then she the bot, but the 
body's gone. 

996
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,600
This. 
And then she looks down and she 

997
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,560
pulls a piece of glass from her 
stomach, realizing she stabbed 

998
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,600
herself and not Lily. 
Yuck. 

999
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,040
Yep. 
Despite her injury, she dances 

1000
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,720
the final act of the ballet with
blood gradually seeping through 

1001
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:54,280
her costume. 
And this is giving very goddess 

1002
00:48:54,280 --> 00:49:00,040
performance this. 
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, The 

1003
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,080
Stardust proudly presents the 
White Swan. 

1004
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,320
The show ends with her jumping 
from the set onto a mattress to 

1005
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,440
simulate the swan throwing 
herself off a Cliff. 

1006
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,280
Everyone is thrilled. 
Thunderous applause. 

1007
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,480
Everyone rushes to congratulate 
her. 

1008
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:25,120
And then they realize she's 
bleeding and it cuts to her 

1009
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,040
blood seeping through her 
costume. 

1010
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:33,040
And she says, I felt it perfect.
I was perfect. 

1011
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,800
And then the movie fades to 
white and she seemingly dies. 

1012
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,280
Yeah, an interesting ending, 
isn't it? 

1013
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,440
Very interesting because there's
quite a few different readings 

1014
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:44,680
on the ending. 
Yeah. 

1015
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,040
So something Natalie Portman has
said in later years is that she 

1016
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:53,520
likes to think it was a signal 
of re rebirth into being a 

1017
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,520
woman. 
And so it's a metaphor. 

1018
00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:58,920
Oh. 
Which is interesting, but maybe 

1019
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,760
giving the film a little bit too
much credit. 

1020
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,200
Well, that's nice. 
Rather than it being a deaf 

1021
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,000
scene, but. 
Right. 

1022
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,360
That would be better. 
Yeah, I think, I think. 

1023
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,960
Do you think maybe that's why 
she's spun that narrative, to 

1024
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,280
try and make this slightly 
problematic film? 

1025
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,840
Yeah, yeah. 
So maybe, yeah, should we talk 

1026
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,320
about the the ending like this 
transformation and the ending 

1027
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,440
because the substance is 
actually another really. 

1028
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,800
I mean, the substance is also 
falls under. 

1029
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,200
Yeah, the younger and hungry are
coming down the stairs after 

1030
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,240
you. 
And. 

1031
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,040
But that movie ends in a kind of
a similar way where it's like 

1032
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,800
the character who's been through
so much, she's been pushed to 

1033
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,760
her limit. 
She finally snaps. 

1034
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,040
But in the substance, it's this 
cathartic release where she 

1035
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,080
punishes everyone who's been bad
to her. 

1036
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,280
Yeah. 
And then it ends with her dying.

1037
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,320
But she is like, happy. 
She's like deluded. 

1038
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,400
She's finally free. 
She's like, like there's a 

1039
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,200
catharsis, a joy, a release. 
And it's like she's punished 

1040
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,600
everyone. 
She's gotten what she wants. 

1041
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,040
But yeah, I don't get that from 
Nina, from Natalie Portman. 

1042
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,080
Do you not get, do you not get 
that she's happy at the last 

1043
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:02,000
ending? 
Yeah. 

1044
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,680
I mean, I'm not saying the 
journey's been. 

1045
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,960
Beating yeah. 
And it's like, it's like her 

1046
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:11,320
delusion has won rather than 
she's gotten some kind of 

1047
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,160
freedom or power. 
Well, it's Oh my God, I can't 

1048
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,360
believe I'm going to say this. 
It is that question of like is 

1049
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,600
great art only achieved through.
Suffering, yeah. 

1050
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,480
Literally the most like feels 
like the most cliche that you 

1051
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,320
could say in the world. 
I don't know if I care or 

1052
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,560
believe in that. 
Yeah, that's definitely like 

1053
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,680
what the movie is asking. 
I don't know. 

1054
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,640
I just it's a little simplistic.
The whole film is simplistic, 

1055
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:43,160
like the metaphor about, you 
know, we're going to intertwine 

1056
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,600
the story of the ballet, the 
blacks, the white swan in with 

1057
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,520
her story. 
It's just a bit like, is this 

1058
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,520
all you could come up with? 
You know, it doesn't take any 

1059
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:52,920
twists and turns from that, does
it? 

1060
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:53,800
It's like. 
Totally. 

1061
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:58,080
It's it's it's fine to do that 
and like especially for a horror

1062
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,280
movie like that's it's a great 
premise for a horror movie. 

1063
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,640
It's just interesting that it 
ended up with like so much 

1064
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,960
critical acclaim. 
Yes, so much Oscar buzz, all of 

1065
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,760
that stuff because. 
Because what? 

1066
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,760
Yeah. 
Like, the elements of it are 

1067
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,760
like, is it just because it's 
the ballet, you know? 

1068
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,760
I mean, because it's like, you 
know, as much as I enjoyed the 

1069
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:23,160
like, hallucinogenic lesbian 
scene that is just like Betty if

1070
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:24,840
ever I've seen it, do you know 
what I mean? 

1071
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,960
There's no like smartness to it.
Like smartness. 

1072
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:35,040
But Mila Kunis isn't a 
particularly deep character. 

1073
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,440
Like she doesn't have any. 
She doesn't have anything to 

1074
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,360
her, does she? 
There's no like turn or twist or

1075
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,080
anything. 
There's no substance to her 

1076
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,840
character. 
The 0 substance to Winona Ryder.

1077
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,560
The mum's interesting. 
We don't get to know anything 

1078
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,440
about her though, really. 
And then the creepo teacher. 

1079
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,960
Like everyone's pretty one note 
characters, aren't they? 

1080
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,160
Yeah, for sure. 
It reminds. 

1081
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:59,960
It reminded me of Notes on the 
Scandal. 

1082
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:02,120
I know you already said that, 
but yeah, it reminded me of 

1083
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:06,480
Notes on the Scandal. 
Just in that like kind of trashy

1084
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:14,840
pulpy story with a high art drag
costume on and and like an art 

1085
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,960
house aesthetic. 
Because that's the thing, like 

1086
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,280
the twisty bits are done really 
well, aren't they? 

1087
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,840
Like all of the filmography Like
because you they're always like 

1088
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,400
hidden things, whether it's in 
like a face hidden somewhere in 

1089
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:26,960
the. 
Eyes moving in a painting. 

1090
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:28,240
Yeah. 
Blinking. 

1091
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:30,560
You miss. 
Like, a very small thing happens

1092
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,440
on her body. 
But like, yeah, not everything's

1093
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,240
like they again, they've kind of
done that very tastefully. 

1094
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:36,920
Yeah. 
So you are getting like tricked 

1095
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:42,080
into thinking this is like art, 
but ultimately it's pretty 

1096
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,480
basic. 
It's yeah, it is just an All 

1097
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:45,800
About Eve. 
It's a Showgirls. 

1098
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,440
It's a. 
And also as well, I feel like 

1099
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,200
the other thing that it does is 
it's like it's clever the way 

1100
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,440
that you jump in and out of her 
reality to start with, but then 

1101
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,520
it just becomes so polluting 
genic, which I guess makes sense

1102
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:01,760
of what's happening to her, but 
to the point where it's like 

1103
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,440
they can kind of make stuff 
happen. 

1104
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,680
And because they're like, we're 
not going to explain it because 

1105
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,280
it's an art film, they can just 
kind of get away with being 

1106
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,600
sloppy. 
Like you're making all of these 

1107
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,960
big swings, but none of them 
really mean anything because you

1108
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,920
can argue that it happened or it
didn't happen. 

1109
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,000
Yeah, there's a lot of get out 
of jail free. 

1110
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,680
Characters and then so by the 
end you're just like and you 

1111
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,600
know, and it's I love an ending 
that where you're unsure of 

1112
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,480
what's happened, but it's like a
really smug like what do you 

1113
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,520
think? 
Has she died or is it an another

1114
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,160
hallucination? 
It's like. 

1115
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,960
Yeah, I saw someone else talk 
about this, but saying that when

1116
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,840
they do like an open-ended thing
like that, you want at least to 

1117
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,880
think that the director has 
decided. 

1118
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,560
Yeah. 
And in this case, you're like, 

1119
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,920
it feels like he doesn't even 
know, and that's kind of 

1120
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,720
annoying. 
Yeah, definitely. 

1121
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,360
Let's have let's make sure that 
there is a point because 

1122
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,120
otherwise you're just being 
like, well, what if? 

1123
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,880
And it's a kind of edge lordy. 
And it's like, no, come on, 

1124
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,000
like, what do you think? 
What what is your, what point 

1125
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,720
are you making here? 
And that was like my problem 

1126
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:06,480
with the Tomah character the 
whole way through because yes, I

1127
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,320
think you're meant to see him as
a creep, a sexual predator, like

1128
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,160
all that. 
But I think it doesn't do a good

1129
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,960
enough job of like, hammering 
home that he's like part of the 

1130
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,800
problem in her life because at 
the end she kisses him. 

1131
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,400
Yeah, there's like weird. 
Like even when she gets fully 

1132
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,760
realized and she finds her 
power, et cetera, she still goes

1133
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:29,360
to him. 
Emissive to him, Yeah. 

1134
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,800
And. 
And it's like he was right all 

1135
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,400
along it. 
Was like, there's a bit of that.

1136
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:39,080
Everything he was saying, every 
practice that he employed, it's 

1137
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:40,400
interesting. 
I was talking to someone the 

1138
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,120
other day is like he trained at 
a clown school of really famous 

1139
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,440
like Philip Gullier and he had 
lots of very like problematic, 

1140
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,480
not sexually problematic, but 
problematic methods of teaching 

1141
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,680
people was very brutal, make 
people cry, upset a lot of 

1142
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,480
people and like be seen as this 
God and it's he died recently 

1143
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,720
and a lot of people are 
devastated because of the 

1144
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:04,160
practice he brought to crowning.
But a lot of other people are 

1145
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,160
just sort of saying he was 
really toxic and really mean and

1146
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,520
and sort of continued a lot of 
behaviours in the industry like 

1147
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,360
that. 
So it's just an interesting. 

1148
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:15,240
Yeah. 
It's just sort of made me think 

1149
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:17,280
about that. 
It's just like these people are 

1150
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,080
sort of held up in society, but 
like. 

1151
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,240
Awful. 
Yeah. 

1152
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:24,480
And I guess it's kind of but. 
They're not making that point. 

1153
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:26,680
I don't think that. 
Yeah, it's almost like they are 

1154
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,920
a bit because they're, but they 
then. 

1155
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:34,560
They also, I think, I don't 
think they stray away enough 

1156
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,480
from the idea that she kind of 
wants it. 

1157
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,680
Right, right. 
Yeah. 

1158
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,760
There's like a a lot of a lot of
that where if you're being 

1159
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,880
generous to this movie, you're 
like, oh, all of her struggles 

1160
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,640
are a product of like a 
problematic mother, the 

1161
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,280
pressures put on women, the 
desire to be perfect, like all 

1162
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,480
of these things have combined. 
But then it doesn't actually 

1163
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,320
deliver at the end. 
And maybe I'm just asking to be 

1164
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:03,160
handled a bit too much on a 
platter, but like, I wish she'd 

1165
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:08,400
broken free of those things. 
A really simple fix at the end 

1166
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,280
to make it a more satisfying 
thing for that is she could have

1167
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,520
gone towards him like she was 
going to go and kiss him and 

1168
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,760
then she could have gone to the 
male lead dancer and just like 

1169
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,640
snogged him in front of him and 
then just like ripped off away 

1170
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:24,280
and then just laugh at the guy 
like and just be like a bit 

1171
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,400
crazy. 
And that would have just helped 

1172
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,960
that, wouldn't it? 
Yeah, Just like, yeah, it's not 

1173
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,120
like he needs to be punished. 
It's not like it needs to end 

1174
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:33,680
with him being no. 
It's completely fine to just 

1175
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,040
show that that's a horrible 
character that exists, yeah. 

1176
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,760
Yeah, and you know, in real life
that man wouldn't be punished 

1177
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,560
and he would just stay in as an 
artistic director and everyone 

1178
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,200
would be like, oh, there's 
rumours about him and blah, 

1179
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,120
blah, blah. 
But yeah, there's there's 

1180
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:47,520
something missing for her 
character. 

1181
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,600
Yeah, because as well, like she 
doesn't, she never instigated 

1182
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,280
like wanting his sexual 
attention to start with. 

1183
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,880
Like you can imagine if she 
misread the signs in an early 

1184
00:57:55,880 --> 00:58:00,480
scene and then tried to kiss him
and then it sort of sets the 

1185
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,600
seed a little bit that she. 
But it doesn't. 

1186
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,640
The first interaction they have 
is he's a man in power and then 

1187
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,440
he aggressive. 
Yeah. 

1188
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:12,520
And then he aggressively 
launches himself on her. 

1189
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,760
So, yeah, not camp. 
No. 

1190
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,000
Just in case you were wondering 
our point, everyone that's 

1191
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:19,800
that's not camp. 
Yeah. 

1192
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,360
And. 
But spiraling like what? 

1193
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,960
Something that is Come to Me is 
like, I love these smallish 

1194
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,080
situations that we all put 
ourselves into and spiralling 

1195
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,640
within them because ultimately 
it's just about 1 show, isn't 

1196
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,200
it? 
It's not like a bigger issue. 

1197
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,720
But I love the kind of melodrama
and the the frenzy and the 

1198
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,040
hurricane of emotions in like a 
very simple life thing that is 

1199
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,320
Come to Me. 
Yeah, and like watching, you 

1200
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:48,640
know, someone have like a mental
breakdown in a melodramatic way 

1201
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,680
on stage. 
Like, yeah, it's. 

1202
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:52,880
Through dance as well. 
Yeah, of course. 

1203
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,320
That's like, yeah, it's it's 
fabulous. 

1204
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,040
But I wish, I wish she'd gotten 
her power. 

1205
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,960
She can die even at the end. 
But like, I want her to have 

1206
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:06,040
been like unleashed. 
Yeah, like if the last shot 

1207
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,640
would have been the Black Swan 
looking up and like that was 

1208
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:13,560
perfect or something, not going 
back to her being like, because 

1209
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,840
that is part of her. 
The Black Swan was part of her. 

1210
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,800
And that's why it was so 
satisfying to see it get in her,

1211
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:20,640
wasn't it? 
Yeah, but like you said, it 

1212
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,440
didn't. 
It didn't lend itself to 

1213
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,480
anything other than like, 
impressing the douchebag. 

1214
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,640
Totally. 
And then the other thing, I 

1215
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,800
guess it's kind of related, like
this idea that you can either, 

1216
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,760
you can either be a virgin or a 
whore. 

1217
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,160
Like those are the 2 mother or 
whore. 

1218
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:37,360
Like those are the two kinds of 
women. 

1219
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,240
You can be, you can be pure or 
you can be a slut. 

1220
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,320
And like, I think the movie sets
that up interestingly. 

1221
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,240
And like, OK, great. 
This movie is going to be an 

1222
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,960
interesting examination of like 
how it's problematic to expect 

1223
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,640
people to be one or the other 
and you can't be both. 

1224
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,680
But then it doesn't actually. 
It's like, no, it doesn't go 

1225
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:57,960
anywhere with that. 
It's got the same level of like 

1226
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,080
character depth as like Grease 
has in regards to that, right? 

1227
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:02,720
Sandy is going to be a bad girl 
now. 

1228
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:03,640
It's like. 
Yeah. 

1229
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,600
And so I guess you're kind of 
seeing like the male writers 

1230
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:11,520
over that in that regard a bit. 
Over the over the talent of the 

1231
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:16,040
of like I think Natalie Portman 
is really good in this, but like

1232
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,280
she's there's only so much she 
can do with the material isn't. 

1233
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:20,040
Totally. 
It's like what? 

1234
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,040
Because. 
She like physically, did you 

1235
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,080
read about like what she did to 
her body for this? 

1236
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,880
Like, I think it's something 
like she trained for three hours

1237
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:31,920
a day for three months, and then
that went up to six hours for 

1238
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,280
like two months. 
And then for the final stint, 

1239
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,480
she was like doing 10 hours. 
She, like, physically, like, 

1240
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,800
broke herself doing it. 
Yeah. 

1241
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,040
So sort of for that kind of, you
know, commitment to the role, I 

1242
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,080
think is. 
And also she needed to be like 

1243
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:49,680
that, didn't she? 
Because you can tell me the 

1244
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,760
Kunis isn't really right. 
You never look at her and go, 

1245
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,080
oh, wow, she's a ballerina. 
Do you was with Natalie? 

1246
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:56,640
You're like everything about 
her. 

1247
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,800
And it's like the way her body's
presented as well. 

1248
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,480
It's like it looks like it's 
been put through it. 

1249
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,600
Totally, my husband does ballet 
he came in towards. 

1250
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,480
The Black Swan or. 
White, But he was like, yeah, 

1251
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,800
she looks, she looks good. 
Apparently they did CGI her face

1252
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,600
onto another dancer quite a lot.
And they weren't. 

1253
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,600
Was the dancer a swan? 
And they were not about to, 

1254
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,440
like, talk about that in press 
because this is part of the 

1255
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,040
Oscar pitch. 
You're like, yeah, incredible. 

1256
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,120
Yeah, and the fucking storyline 
I've just been fed about like 

1257
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,800
what she did go and do. 
Yeah, so the dancer who was her 

1258
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,880
body double has come out and 
been like, fuck this movie. 

1259
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:35,880
They didn't give me the credit I
deserve. 

1260
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,720
Like, yeah, she looks good from 
the waist up, but anything else 

1261
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:39,400
you see is me. 
Oh. 

1262
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:40,880
Fuck her. 
Yeah. 

1263
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,280
Yeah, well, so. 
It's, you know, probably a bit 

1264
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,720
of truth in both. 
I don't know what else. 

1265
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,440
I mean, if you obviously like 
when a film is pitched like this

1266
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,720
and that, you know, like as you 
said, there was a whole Oscars 

1267
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,720
campaign, they would never not 
going for an Oscar award-winning

1268
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:58,400
film. 
Yes. 

1269
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,000
And when can you just like, put 
that stuff to the side? 

1270
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,200
Like, you know, we've talked 
about like kind of the 

1271
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,360
problematic things. 
If you just watch this as like 

1272
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,600
another Show Girls thing, can 
you just view it as being purely

1273
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,360
camp and stupid? 
Yeah, that's how I thought. 

1274
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,360
I was just like. 
It's not like a feel good movie 

1275
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,160
in the same way. 
I think because Natalie Portman 

1276
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,520
does a great job of portraying 
someone having a mental 

1277
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:27,520
breakdown and like you really 
see all the pain she's going 

1278
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,760
through. 
It's, it's not a romp to watch, 

1279
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,280
but it is fun. 
It's a fun movie to like, think 

1280
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,920
about and like, I like having it
in my brain, like kind of 

1281
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,600
percolating and it's. 
Pacey You kind of don't get 

1282
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,720
bored with it, do you? 
Yeah, the horror stuff is really

1283
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:43,920
effective, I think, like. 
Yeah. 

1284
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,960
And it hasn't really dated. 
I think in terms of it like the 

1285
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,400
way you watch it, you're like, 
Oh yeah, this is, I thought the 

1286
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,640
substance as well. 
And again, like, interesting 

1287
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,960
that no one's really that I've 
heard like because there's lots 

1288
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,160
of comparisons, but I've not 
really mentioned anyone with 

1289
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,240
black this one. 
And yeah, let's say Black Widow,

1290
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,880
the Rita Ora and Nicky Azalea 
song, but black song and the 

1291
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,520
substance. 
But yeah, no, I thought and 

1292
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,000
yeah, overall, I just thought 
it, you know, it's just, it's 

1293
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,000
got oomph, hasn't it? 
It's got yeah, and it's. 

1294
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,120
But it's basic. 
It is like it. 

1295
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,880
It's a film that thinks it's way
better than it is and way more 

1296
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,720
complicated than it is, because 
it's really very, very simple to

1297
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:21,400
follow. 
It's not. 

1298
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
It feels a bit like The Academy 

1299
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,720
Is like, oh, they've made a good
horror movie, everyone And. 

1300
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,880
And we're kind of easily dazzled
by that. 

1301
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,040
Yeah. 
Because it's not. 

1302
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,280
It's like, oh, a genre film is 
getting is good like. 

1303
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,560
But if she was a stripper and it
was exactly the same script. 

1304
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,240
Right. 
Well, head over to the Gatreon 

1305
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,960
for our episode on striptease. 
And we like covering all of the 

1306
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,840
dancing films we haven't done. 
What's it? 

1307
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,280
I was about to say? 
Chases. 

1308
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,640
It's not called chases. 
That's a funny name for a film. 

1309
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,520
The one Jlo Hustlers. 
Hustlers. 

1310
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,680
Yes, I love hustlers. 
Actually, we should cover 

1311
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,320
Hustlers. 
Yeah, because you're right. 

1312
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:10,080
It's it is just girls gone wild,
catfights pushing down the 

1313
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:13,600
stairs like there can only be 
one woman. 

1314
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:17,240
We better fight. 
It does break 1 trope but I'm 

1315
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,720
not here for we all know Sue 
gives a fuck. 

1316
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,440
Said it. 
They can't have the same colour 

1317
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:25,680
hair with their enemies. 
I mean that's just like the 

1318
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,280
rules of feminism. 
And I know that meal is a bit 

1319
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:32,480
more of like I don't know, she's
got a bit of an all Bernie like 

1320
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,760
Blondie multi layered caramel 
tone to her hair. 

1321
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,000
But ultimately they both have 
dark hair. 

1322
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:39,480
Where is the blonde and where 
is? 

1323
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,480
I'm surprised in this film they 
didn't go that literal. 

1324
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,600
That's so true. 
But I guess that's what that's 

1325
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,440
what the Academy was picking up 
on. 

1326
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,160
These big risks, these big 
swings. 

1327
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:52,720
I've never seen anything like it
before. 

1328
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,760
This movie stars three women 
with brown hair. 

1329
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,280
And the innocent virgin has dark
hair. 

1330
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:02,680
I hate her outfits. 
Can I say Natalie Portman when 

1331
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,480
she's good girl? 
She's dressed like Melania 

1332
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:11,720
Trump, like pink tweed and like 
feathery scarves. 

1333
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,520
Oh yeah, she is, isn't she? 
Oh yeah. 

1334
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,840
Awful. 
I'm glad that we got that point 

1335
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:18,040
there. 
How? 

1336
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:20,360
Am I supposed to have sympathy 
for this character when you're 

1337
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:24,680
wearing a pink tweed coat and 
like a floofy feather boa? 

1338
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,560
Gross. 
The rules of feminism. 

1339
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:28,520
Anyway, what about the lesbian 
stuff? 

1340
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,360
Lesbians are great nowadays, I 
mean. 

1341
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:34,680
It's great to see. 
We'd love to see it. 

1342
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,200
I think this was a lesbian 
awakening for a lot of people, 

1343
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:38,480
this movie. 
Yeah, it's hot. 

1344
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,840
It's hot, yeah, but. 
It doesn't really feel like it's

1345
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,520
earned, does it? 
No, and it's and it doesn't feel

1346
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,280
like it's unlocking anything in 
Natalie Portman. 

1347
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:48,920
No, it's kind of annoying that 
way. 

1348
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:53,760
It feels a little bit like if we
get them to kiss, it will get 

1349
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,040
people to and. 
The wild girl just doesn't care 

1350
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,520
about that, even though she's 
she doesn't do it like you know,

1351
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,000
she's just I make out with girls
all the time. 

1352
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,640
It doesn't. 
Whereas again, there's something

1353
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:07,360
quite powerful really and like 
her first big orgasm and the 

1354
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:12,440
unlocking is through a woman, 
but they've just kind of I mean,

1355
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,840
it's a deep it's a deep dive 
that media is doing. 

1356
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,800
She is eating her out. 
That is eating someone out. 

1357
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:25,600
Like you can feel the like the 
tongue is scraping her very thin

1358
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:31,080
body is right to the back, 
almost poking out of her bum 

1359
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:37,080
hole. 
But yeah, it is like male gaze 

1360
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,080
lesbian is a. 
Little bit and the fact that I 

1361
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,560
guess that it's like, oh, it was
it all a dream it was all a 

1362
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,440
dream means that like they're 
they can kind of do the 

1363
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,920
lesbianism without ever having 
to actually interrogate like 

1364
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:49,680
what that would mean for 
totally. 

1365
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,840
Characters and again it doesn't 
link to. 

1366
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,200
It doesn't link to anything. 
And there's not, You don't ever 

1367
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,920
get a sense of her being 
sexually interested in Mila 

1368
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,160
Kunis or after. 
And then as we said, the last 

1369
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,760
big moment that happens is she 
kisses the guy again. 

1370
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,400
So it's not saying that she 
couldn't be bisexual, but it's 

1371
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,440
just it implies that she just 
wants his. 

1372
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:12,880
Yeah, it feels a bit chucked in.
Yeah, that's annoying. 

1373
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,680
But like, if you love this movie
because you think it's hot and 

1374
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,360
you're a lesbian, then, like, 
more power to you. 

1375
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:20,720
Yeah. 
Fair enough. 

1376
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:22,680
Yeah, totally. 
Carpet munchers. 

1377
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,360
OK, should we rate this movie? 
Yes. 

1378
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:32,760
Let's start with Merrill's one 
to 10 Merrill's for the quality 

1379
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:34,800
of the movie. 
Well, are we going to argue with

1380
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:37,520
the Academy here? 
I think I'm going to rate it 

1381
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,760
pretty high. 
Go on, you go first. 

1382
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,680
I'm kind of in like a 7 or 8 
frame of mind. 

1383
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:44,840
I'm going to give it a 7 1/2. 
Yeah. 

1384
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,320
I think it's well made. 
I think it's a delight to watch.

1385
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,920
I think it's well acted. 
I think it's gripping. 

1386
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,400
I think the cinematography is 
good and effective. 

1387
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,120
I feel really uneasy watching 
it. 

1388
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:56,840
The dancing's great. 
It's not as good as it thinks it

1389
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,320
is. 
No, but who is right? 

1390
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:01,840
No, I agree with you. 
I'm going to give it a 7. 

1391
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,640
But like, it's it's a really, 
it's a shame that it's written 

1392
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:09,000
by men and it's a shame there's 
a male director that that really

1393
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,400
sort of sours it because you 
just think this subject matter, 

1394
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:18,359
this concept with like a few 
more female voices behind the 

1395
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:20,800
scenes, it probably would have 
had some more nuance, which it 

1396
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,200
lacks, Yeah, which would have 
made it a really great film. 

1397
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:26,279
But it is beautiful. 
Cinematography is great. 

1398
01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:28,920
It hasn't dated. 
And I love, I love the way the 

1399
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,680
choreography is. 
I think it's just, yeah, it's 

1400
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:33,640
really watchable as well. 
I watch it again. 

1401
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:34,920
Absolutely. 
So Seven. 

1402
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:36,399
Yes, great. 
Groundbreaking. 

1403
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,560
OK, what about Liza's? 
How camp is this movie? 

1404
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,880
I think I need to refer to the 
the criteria which I know you 

1405
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,640
know off the top of your head. 
Yeah, but does it give you a 

1406
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,760
wetty? 
Sometimes the, like, the queer 

1407
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:57,600
joy, I think is tempered by 
like, the problems you can see. 

1408
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,240
Yeah. 
It's also like it's not joyous 

1409
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,160
to watch a woman suffer like. 
No, and also as well. 

1410
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:05,439
It's not queer joy. 
It's just like queers gazing in 

1411
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:07,160
other people's joys. 
Yeah. 

1412
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:08,479
Do you know what I mean? 
It's straight joy. 

1413
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,720
Yeah. 
It's not my joy to joy about, 

1414
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,800
but I'm looking in and I'm still
getting some joy from it. 

1415
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:15,920
But it's not. 
It's not my joy. 

1416
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:19,600
Yeah, it's again, like, I think 
comparing it to the substance, 

1417
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:23,600
if she'd had like, her queer 
breakthrough moment at the end 

1418
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,000
of the movie and she'd been 
like, Dark Phoenix, just like, 

1419
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:31,040
fucking shit up, going after 
Mila Kunis, like kissing her. 

1420
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,240
Killing, yeah, killing someone 
on stage. 

1421
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:35,760
Just like, really. 
Fucking not being a victim, not 

1422
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,200
being the fucking White Swan all
of your life. 

1423
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,720
Yeah. 
And then just like basking in 

1424
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:43,200
the applause, but like, we know 
that she's just fucked someone 

1425
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:45,279
up backstage, killed him, 
whatever. 

1426
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:46,880
I'd be like, that is queer. 
Joy. 

1427
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:48,000
That's queer joy. 
Yeah. 

1428
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,800
So this is straight joy, right? 
It's not. 

1429
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:52,800
Stupid. 
Well, it is, but it's it. 

1430
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:54,400
Is stupid. 
But it is but. 

1431
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,280
It isn't dumb dumb. 
It's like, yeah, here's this 

1432
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,800
kooky idea. 
They're gonna this main story 

1433
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:01,440
and the plot. 
But it's it's not. 

1434
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:02,800
OK. 
Yeah, you're right, but it's not

1435
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,760
stupid fun in the way I normally
consider. 

1436
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:06,440
Oh, it's not stupid fun. 
It's stupid. 

1437
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:11,160
It's not stupid fun. 
Underdog Flop No. 

1438
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,040
No. 
Ongoing legacy, yeah. 

1439
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,560
Has it been reclaimed by the the
queers? 

1440
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:21,400
I don't think it has. 
When I think about, it's like a 

1441
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:24,240
notes on the scandal, when I 
think there's something meta, 

1442
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:28,880
queer meta camp about it because
it was like this kind of trashy 

1443
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:32,160
movie that got so celebrated and
it's like people acting their 

1444
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:36,800
fucking tits off in this movie 
that is actually kind of tawdry.

1445
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:38,680
Yeah. 
And there's something camp about

1446
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:39,760
that. 
Yeah. 

1447
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,920
And like it's always there is 
always going to be a camp Ness 

1448
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,680
to two women fighting over one 
spot on the stage. 

1449
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,400
But also as well the facts, you 
can watch it and it is basically

1450
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:52,360
Showgirls and knowing that they 
put all of that effort into this

1451
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:56,520
film and ultimately it is still 
Showgirls that is quite camp 

1452
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:57,200
that. 
Is camp. 

1453
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:01,640
OK, I'm going to give it 7. 
Oh wow. 

1454
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:03,600
I think it is. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1455
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:05,200
OK, great. 
I'll give it a 7 too. 

1456
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:07,560
Yeah. 
It's just a different type of 

1457
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,800
camp that we don't often touch 
it on, but yeah. 

1458
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,920
I feel like we explained all the
reasons why it wasn't camp, but 

1459
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:14,160
then we gave it a really high 
score. 

1460
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,360
But you know what? 
Sometimes it's a feeling. 

1461
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,040
Stupid, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

1462
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,720
Losing your mind over ballet, I 
mean. 

1463
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:24,320
Sometimes you know the criteria 
is just a guide and. 

1464
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:25,920
It's a feeling. 
It's a feeling. 

1465
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:28,480
It's a feeling. 
Well, there you go. 

1466
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:32,000
That's Black Swan. 
That's not. 

1467
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,120
The name of that is the name of 
Swan Lake Black Swan. 

1468
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,800
I'm very confused. 
I'm going to go and get a mirror

1469
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:43,040
and smash it and shove it into 
your stomach now or am I? 

1470
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,600
Great, and I'm going to go try 
and eat myself out. 

1471
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:50,800
Yes, I recommend it. 
Seriously, get yourself to that 

1472
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:52,520
club. 
It's good, good time. 

1473
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,880
Bye. 
Get away from her you bitch. 

1474
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:00,960
Classic. 
He was in the Amazon with my mom

1475
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,680
when she was researching spiders
right before she died. 

1476
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:11,840
You thought you become a 
prostitute or a dog at it. 

1477
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:17,000
I used to love doggy chow. 
I used to love doggy chow too.