We're going to need a bigger swab.
Get away from her, you bitch. Classic.
He was in the Amazon final when she was researching spiders
right before she died. No, Hannah, you.
Thought you become a prostitute, you're a dog at it.
I used. To love doggy chow.
I used to love doggy chow too. I don't need any man's help.
I'm Crystal. Put me over your knee and beat
some manners into me. Yeah, it's Jackie.
Oh, sorry. Wrong person.
It's baby Lame. And welcome to CAP Classics.
A stupid cop. Oh, I was trying to be funny
there and I said. I like stupid cod past.
Yeah, stupid. Well, I was going to try and mix
it up with what I was saying. I was going to say a stupid
podcast about thoughtful movies. Oh, is that what we've watched
today? Yeah, I think.
So it's it's Shakespeare. It is really, Yeah.
Lies. I'm a Nelly.
Lies. Baby, are you going away?
You go on a little a little trip.
Yeah, I'm leaving the podcast. I don't have to say this, but
I'm going on a break with you, Crystal.
Oh no. Yeah, and let's make it like the
Rachel and Ross thing so you better not see anyone else
because. Otherwise, that'll be two
seasons worth of content. Yeah.
Oh my God, I can't believe I'm quoting friends.
This is why I need to go away I think.
Where are you going? I'm going to America.
I've heard it's meant to be a really great place to visit at
this time of the world. You know what I mean?
Molly, you in danger, girl? No, I'm going to be an artist.
I'm going to go and create in a in a Hut somewhere in the middle
of nowhere. Is that what they're calling the
Betty Ford Clinic these days? I feel like that's such a
throwback. Reference isn't very full
connect. Yeah, I'm still like this.
I'm like, I don't know, but I feel like I've got to be like a
woman in athleisia. I'm like kind of diamante.
Holding a a vodka martini, yeah. I'm basically what's the chops
in? Postcards on the edge.
Yeah, I'm, yeah. I'm her.
Debbie Reynolds. I'm Debbie Reynolds.
Yeah. I mean, it was coming.
It's like death hasn't become me.
Debbie Reynolds has become me. You tell that to Debbie
Reynolds. What have you been up to,
Crystal? Nothing that exciting, although
just, you know, dispatches from the life of reality TV fame.
Yesterday I went for a little STI test.
Thanks. Syphilis I wasn't expecting.
You to take it there, but thank you for.
Sharing And I was sat in the waiting room and I hear my name
called and it's like, it's a hot young gay nurse.
So that's never ideal, is it? It's not really who you want to
see. What do you want to see like
some? You want to see an old lady
who's seen it all? Yeah.
Who's, like, bored of gay people?
Is she judging you or? No, no, no, exactly.
She just couldn't care less because she's seen so many.
Gay men. OK yeah.
So hot hot nurse calls you A. Hot nurse.
Yeah. And so he's like, well, let's
have a look. And I pull my pants down and
he's approaching with the swab. And then he says, oh, by the
way, were you on Drag Race? It's not OK, is it?
Do you? Do you pause as you're going in
with the swab or do you continue to do it as?
The actually it was quite funny because then my Dick actually
retreated inside me. Oh, I played that game with you
before where it hides away when I've got the swab out and you've
got to get it back out again. Having you, it's like, I don't
know why I'm still like miming the swab technique.
Oh, it's good. It's helping me relive the
moment. Have you got your results yet?
I feel like. No.
OK, well maybe maybe you could give us an update.
You know how you know how you sometimes edit in your voice?
Just with a little, you know, Oh, post note, so maybe here.
Hey everyone, it's future Crystal here.
The test results have come in and big news, I'm pregnant.
Anyway, I'll, I'll have to say, don't go on reality TVTV folks,
because I'm glad you. Said that because I thought you
were going to say don't go to an STD clinic.
I was like not sure that's a message we should be Co signing
on the podcast. Well, this took a tangent,
didn't it? Yeah, anyway, moving on, why are
we here? Oh, just before we get into why
we're here, we of course have a gate tree on where you can get a
bonus episode every month. And you also get a 3A free swab
I've heard as well. Thanks.
Syphilis. Do you want it anally or orally?
Our latest episode was on Vamp Grace Jones, Vampire Stripper,
Low, low, low budget, 80s horror.
What's not to love? And if you can't subscribe to
the Gatron, you could leave us a comment on Apple Podcast, a
review, a rating on Spotify, or you could send us a message with
some suggestions or. You could post a voice note, you
could draw a picture. You could get creative with
this. You could launch a rival podcast
and show us how to make a better version of what we're doing.
Really, there's all sorts of things you could be doing.
I'd like that if someone just really tried to destroy us, but
like in a in a long game way. I mean, jokes on them, we're
destroying ourselves, yes? But we have.
Has anyone got that much time to be like I'm going to, That's why
I'm going to take down this? Podcast.
That's why I think I'd like it. Yeah.
Oh. It'd be great classic Cam.
Yeah, yeah, that's a classic Cam.
Oh, it sounds like ATV station that only plays.
I don't know Grace Jones movies. Yeah, I mean, I'm in.
But we did get some. We have had some DMS with some
suggestions. Oh.
DM OH. Yeah, we've had DMS.
Claudio, why you? Needed to go to the clinic.
Is this the? Is this the origin story?
Yeah, the DMS are overflowing, Claudio says.
Hey, loves eek, loving the podcast.
Thank you. I wonder.
Sorry, I'm not sure. Is that an excitable eek, do you
think? Well, eek, I'm scared that's how
I would interpret it. I was getting excited, but you
know what? Let's not put words in Claudia's
mouth. Oh.
Sorry, Claudia. Wondering if John Waters female
trouble would ever be reviewed? Big love from Amsterdam.
I mean, I think John Waters is on the horizon.
There's a few that we need to talk about, aren't there?
I think we're big fans of Serial Mum as well.
So I think I would love to get my teeth into a John Waters
movie. Yeah, yeah, I feel like Serial
Mum is more in our Canon than Female Trouble, but I'm open to,
I'm open to all of them. Oh, thank you Claudio for the
message. Yeah.
Thank you. Yeah.
I love messages. We've also had a message from
Lorkin. Hey Divas, I've recently
discovered your podcast and just wanted to say how great it is.
Great fun and great insight too. I've been binge listening and
thought I'd throw you guys a few suggestions to add to the mix.
Top of my wish list being These Old Broads which is a 2001 TV
movie with Joan Collins, Debbie Reynolds, Shirley MacLaine and
Elizabeth Taylor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've.
On the podcast before I think or it's.
Yeah, I, I saw this a long, long time ago and I, I feel like this
because who doesn't love ATV movie?
I feel like we need to explore the realms of TV movie a little
bit more. Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, I want to see that movie.
Yeah. Whether or not we cover it.
Thank you. Working.
That's great. Working has also suggested.
Other than that, I think you should cover Romeo Michelle's
High School Reunion, Spice World Scream, 3 Notes on a scandal.
I think that's the second request for notes on a scandal
We've had and Serial Mom. Great.
OK. So we're ticking some boxes I
like. I like how they skipped some of
the genres there. Yeah.
I think the importance, yeah, it's good to kind of find.
Oh God, I. Nearly vomited.
So oh. My God, disgusting.
Not again. I'm not going to give you
anything else to say with that, so you can keep that like.
I'm keeping it for sure. That was me vomiting because
they were disgusting choices. You're gross.
You're gross looking. You cannot like, call someone
else gross after you just nearly vomited out of nowhere.
Never change, never change. It's going to be a hard month
without you. 5 pumpkin. 5 pumpkin.
I don't think we actually told people you're only going away
for a month, right? And the lovely the lovely Sue
Gives a Fuck is going to be filling in so.
Yeah, I've heard. I've heard she likes to fill in
sometimes. Oh oh.
There's quite a crack to fill. Yeah, that's why you go for the
jumbo swabs, isn't it? Yeah.
We're going to need a bigger swab do.
You remember when this podcast used to be slightly academic,
and I feel like now it just goes down the drain of we need some,
we need some other guest house soon.
Do I need we need to bring child back?
Yeah, we need some like weight to this, yeah.
Well, before we go any further baby, what makes a camp classic?
Right now. Right now.
Well, a camp classic needs to be something that unlocks queer
joy. In the words of Megan Fox.
You give me such a wedding. I know she doesn't speak like
that, but that's how I'm feeling right now.
Yeah. We want squelchy.
Squelchy Uzi. Juicy queer joy.
The film needs to have an ongoing legacy, something that
makes you want to come back for more and that feeds into queer
pop culture. It needs to be so stupid.
It's genius. If it makes sense, it's probably
not camp. And ultimately we are looking
for flaccid energy. A flop rejected by the
mainstream and resurrected by the queers.
Thank you, baby. I I felt like I was really
taking that one seriously. Yeah, I felt, I felt the the
pathos. And today we are covering 1985's
red Sonya. And it's a bit of a red Sonya
fest this episode, isn't it? Crystal it.
Is indeed, it is. Indeed.
We're today we're talking about the 1985 version, but the
franchise has been rebooted and a new version is out now on
streaming. And baby, you already know.
But I was able to bag an exclusive interview with the
director of the new movie, MJ Bassett.
How? The fuck did she manage to do
that? I.
Just think that the blag is real, but yeah.
If we talk some good game, we this this can be a thing that we
start doing. I think this could be our new
thing. We're like proper pundits.
Sure, Jan. I got sent like a Screener, you
know, I feel like and and I did the zoom and she was there.
She had like the official background.
So how was she? Lovely, lovely.
And yeah, if you want to hear about the new version of Red
Sonya, that will be at the end of the episode.
And yet that movie's out now. But we thought it would be a fun
tie in to cover the 85 version, which I think neither of us had
seen. No, not at all.
Yeah, and it's a, it's a wild ride.
It's a. Yeah, insert Aretha Franklin.
OK, great, great gowns, beautiful gowns.
Oh it this movie is so beautiful gowns.
This movie is very beautiful gowns.
Let's get into the box office reviews context.
So Rhett Sonia, of course, is is starring Bridget Nielsen.
Oh my God, Jackie, Bridget Nielsen's first time on the
podcast. I believe it.
Is welcome, Bridget. Yeah, this was her first movie
role. I've got some Bridget Nielsen
trivia for you very quickly. She's 6 feet tall.
She speaks Danish, English, German, Italian and a bit of
French. You think you're very clever,
don't you? OK, Yeah.
We obviously know and love her from this sound bite.
Yeah, Jackie. Yeah, Jackie, Jackie.
It had never occurred to me until today that that's because
Jackie's still on with her mother-in-law.
Yeah. I know exactly.
Also that is like the golden era of reality TV, like being able
to get Bridget Nielsen and then it's like, let's get the
mother-in-law from hell in. Yeah, but that's what I love
about the wicked world of reality TV.
There's no way Sylvester Stallone is going on like a Big
Brother. We'll just get all of his family
to go on it. Also, it hadn't occurred that
there's that meme of her that's everywhere too.
She's a meme queen. She was on flavour flave and
she's laughing at someone doing a lie detector test.
You've definitely seen a clip of her laughing and you didn't
realize it was her. Oh.
My God. Well, I watched an interview
today with her with Joan Rivers on.
I watched that too. Oh my God, I love and normally
defend Joan Rivers to the death but fuck me she was feeling
petty as hell in that. She just is.
Like she calls her a cunt, doesn't she?
Yeah, accuses her of being a drug addict.
She makes fun of her husband because it's her 4th or 5th
husband. Oh God she's so caddy.
But I. Doesn't doesn't it just start
with like Bridget Neeson going? You know, I'm so glad to see
you. You're like an amazing woman.
You know, I'm glad to be here And you know, obviously we've
had like some difficulties in the past and you know, I was
angry with you because you did you know, the last time I saw
you, you were quite horrible about me.
But I'm here to give you a flowers and then whoa, that's
enough to send Joan Rivers on a hell rant.
I know you're a wonderful woman. I know you're forgiving.
I know I'm a piece of shit. I know you're fabulous.
I know you're warm. I know your 4 marriages are just
silly mistakes. I know your drug problem doesn't
count. I know all that.
I know you've got a new husband who is in the audience and he's
half your age. I like.
But it does just feel a bit like she's Bridget's being a bit of a
bad sport and like if she just played along, it all would have
stayed light and fun. But Bridget was not having it.
She was on the defensive. And yeah, she storms off twice.
Yeah. Yeah, it was.
One of the times she takes her husband with her, she goes
under. The audience picks him up.
He's very small, isn't he? Well.
He's like 5-2 or something and she's 6 foot tall, wearing heels
and she just kind of drags out this little man.
They're still married, by the way.
Oh, I'm very happy for them. Yeah, it's great.
Yeah, screw you, Joan Rivers, because you're dead.
Who wins? But I I was watching it.
I was like, I'm really enjoying this.
I'm not sure how this is going to help our research for the
film that we're about to discuss, but I will never mind.
Doesn't matter. The other thing I wanted to say
was that obviously she was in some of her films.
I mean, she's done a lot of reality TV, She's done a lot of
bad TV movies. She became quite.
Like, did you look through her IMDb film credits?
Yeah, some of those films. Look so good.
Like the artwork alone like Galaxy or Galaxy it's called AKA
last terminal. I was like that one, I want to
watch what was another one. She's too tall, which looks
spectacular. A little 90s comedy.
Is that is that for people with that fetish of like a giant lady
stepping on them? I mean she is the the boss of.
She is, yeah. She she probably created that
fetish. Yeah, I was like, I want to go
down a deep dive and watch these terrible films just so you can
just tell. I watched a clip of her in
Beverly Hills Cop 2 and she plays a dual thief villain with
a gun in a white power suit, so very happy to see that.
And what, how many years after read some, you know, would that
have been? Would that have been like 92 or
something? 91 do you reckon?
I don't know. I just wonder if her acting has.
Has improved. Since her first film role.
I'd say probably not, but I haven't.
I can't actually know. I don't actually know if I've
seen her in anything else. She's still, like, quite heavily
accented, isn't she? I wonder if she can fake it or
if she always has to play like a Scandinavian person.
Yeah, the other the other movie I saw that she did was called
Domino, and it's a 1988 Italian erotic drama.
And this is the synopsis. Obscene phone calls provoke a
platinum blonde making a video documentary about Billie
Holiday. OK.
I'm captivated. I am I, I, I don't know.
Why is she? Why is she making a, a movie
about Billie Holiday? I mean, I don't know.
And what do the obscene phone calls provoke her to do?
Well, again, I think we might need to watch this.
I'm not sure. Is there a spin off to the the
gate Trion? Because it doesn't.
Yeah, we need, we need something lower than the gate Trion to put
it on. Gosh.
OK, And then let's get into the box office.
Some reviews of this movie. So this movie was a critical and
commercial failure. It took $7,000,000 under a
budget of $18 million, and it's got 21% on Rotten Tomatoes.
It was nominated for three Razzies, including worst actress
and worst supporting actress, and it won for worst new star.
Yeah less, but I just found a positive review on letterboxed.
This person says OK wait this was so fun.
Red headed sword fighting lady, extended water dragon fight
scene, Silly Wizard, crazed witch queen, cute little Prince
and clumsy servant, and the craziest mullet you ever did
see. What more could you possibly
want? And that's kind of how I feel
about it, too. Yeah, I mean, I will say feel
like that's punching things up just a little bit.
Like that sounds like a kind of a kooky happy go lucky movie.
Do you know what I read? I might remember the thing I was
interested in with this was I watched like a 4K restoring A
restored version of this movie. And the side note was they'd
taken 150 hours to refine this footage.
And really, And I'm like, wow, of all, of all the films that
could be restored, this, this was the the one you chose.
Also 150 hours? What's that like 3 work weeks
for one person? Actually.
One person worked for three. Weeks.
They, they tricked me into thinking 150.
I was like, because obviously I was like, whoa, 3 digit
numbered, what the hell? But no, you're right.
It's like, yeah, well, you can tell, can't you?
3 weeks. It I did, I got to say though, I
did rewatch parts of it on YouTube today and it looks much
worse. So I would recommend the 4K
version if you are going to watch this movie.
Let's get into the plot. Don't worry, I'm not going deep.
So we've got Sonia. She's a red mulleted woman and
she's next to a burning building.
A spirit appears to her and gives her back story.
This like instantly hooked me. Yeah.
Because I was like, this is this is how you do it.
We talk about films being, you know, too long too, you know,
stretched out. I'm like within like a minute
and a half. We have got we've we've done a
whole film's worth of plot, haven't we?
And I'm just like, this is the kind of snappy shit that I want
from a from a SEC. She's not sexy from a wispy
little witch creature. Thing.
Yeah, like a floating, disembodied lady voice with a
sword. Here for it, yeah.
And we learn quite a lot, don't we?
We. Do we Do we learn that Sonia was
approached by Queen Gedrin sexually lesbian?
I love that straight from like evil lesbo queen.
Evil Lesbo Queen. She came on to her.
Sonia was disgusted. Yeah, read Sonia is giving no
homo here. She's so grossed out that she
slashes Gedrin's face and scars her scars her badly, which then
prompts Gedrin to kill her entire family and have her gang
raped, which is a bit of a bummer.
A bit of a bummer, but yeah. But yeah.
Yeah, but the spirit is there to give her the strength to get
vengeance. What an opening scene.
It really, it really sets the tone that you just never really
know what this movie's gonna do. It's got, it's got weirdness all
over it. And I mean, that's always a
treat, isn't it? It keeps you from getting bored.
Yeah. And it, although it isn't like
kind of very action paced, it feels like, oh, we're about to
watch something. Yeah, it really captivated me.
And I was really excited by that opening sequence, definitely.
Sonia then trains under a swordmaster called the
Grandmaster, and she mistrusts nearly all other men because
obviously. I hate men, yeah.
I mean all of that was great, wasn't it just the grandmaster
being like, men aren't evil, all everything isn't swordplay,
hatred of men could have been your downfall.
It's just like. It's like the movie I'm.
We'll get into this later, maybe, But the movie really is
confused about what it's trying to say about, I guess, sexual
violence and rape. Yeah.
I don't think this movie is qualified to be making any
statements on on sexual violence against women.
And yes, it does. And yet it's gonna try anyway.
Yeah, the grandmaster says she needs to work on hating men.
He's also a perv, sorry. Oh yeah, he is a perv.
Because he's then he's then basically is like, oh, if I was
30 years younger. It's like, oh fucking hell.
But also, it does, it does set the tone as well that she is
this highly desirable woman, isn't she in the film?
Yeah, well, she doesn't. I don't think she meets a single
man in this movie who doesn't want to fuck her.
Yeah. I hate men.
Again, problematic. Yeah, not great.
Not great. Then we go to a nearby temple
and we meet Varna, Sonia's sister.
Great, great wig. Great hair, great hair.
It's kind of Grace Jones in Vamp.
Yes, yeah, she's, she's got like a pale blue contact on as well,
just kind of. Flat and a flat, very straight
red Bob. Yeah, it's sort of giving me an
early days Gaga where she was making like the headpieces out
of bits of cardboard and spraying them silver.
Do you know what I mean? It was like, Oh yeah, Gaga, give
me some. But Varna is in an order of
priestesses who are preparing to banish the Talisman, A mystical
light powered relic that created the world.
I found their ceremony very Conti.
Oh, it's so good, it's so good. They're all in white, they've
all got swords. There's a big green glowing ball
they're doing chanting and they're preparing to send it
into the darkness. Because the Talisman can be used
and touched only by women. Men vanish if they touch it and
it has become too powerful to control.
But this is when Gedrin's army attacks and this is our first
big fight scene and all of the priestesses get fucking killed.
And interesting to use the word fucking because it sounds like
they're having an orgasm as they get.
They're all like. It's very like.
Oh, yeah, oh, oh, yes. So and then and then and then it
turns into screams. It's really weird.
Yeah. And then?
When they they're pushed down a hole and I'm like, is there a
dark room below? They landed on some like beds
and then they're now getting. They're just down there.
Are they getting finger bangs to death?
Still looking for a film with that.
But yeah, they're literally like moaning going.
Oh oh. I just is any excuse I just let
me just have one more because I know I can't carry it but it
doesn't want. Me like, Oh yeah.
Oh. OK.
Yeah, it's, it's out of me now. I'm sorry.
You're done. I'm sorry.
That was women dying and you're laughing.
No, I felt that pain. I was, I'm an actor.
I was reenacting it because we don't have the clearance to play
long clips in these podcasts, so it's important to reenact the
scenes. But yeah, they fall into like a
dark room essentially. Don't they die a dark room of
death, which I think we've all been in before, haven't we Swab?
Thanks, Syphilis. So yeah, Varna watches Gedrin
steal the Talisman, throw the surviving priestesses into the
vault that contained it, and then she escapes but is mortally
wounded. And she's discovered by
Khaledor, the Lord of Hercania, who is Arnold Schwarzenegger and
who is definitely not Conan the Barbarian.
Oh, is is that like a purposeful thing that he isn't Conan the
Barbarian or? So this is a guess a good time
to get into this. This is basically the
unauthorized third movie in the Conan franchise.
I. Didn't and I thought it was
authorized. I fell for the trick.
Yeah, the producer didn't want to pay the rights to have the
Conan name, so he just swapped out Conan for Calador.
Oh my God. And am I right in saying as well
that Arnold Schwarzenegger was tricked into doing this role as
well? Yeah, Explain that to us.
Yes. So he was in like a multi
picture deal with Dino De Laurentiis, who is the producer
of this movie, Big prolific kind of B movie producer.
And he said, Arnie, will you do a cameo in my Red Sonja movie?
And Arnie said yes and thought he was coming in for a week and
ended up being four. And then he found out he was
getting Co starred billing and was on the poster and.
Because I read as well that they had extra cameras that were just
sort of filming stuff, so they had loads more footage of him
than than he thought he filmed. It's really, really, really
funny. It's like, imagine living in a
time when Arnold Schwarzenegger was famous enough that you like,
if you just tricked him into being in your movie, you'd have
like a chance of success. It's just so confusing.
It's so confusing because he's another terrible actor.
Like Bridget is not doing a good job here.
Neither is he. We've got 2 incredibly
untalented actors. It is.
It is like, I mean, I'm like actually guy for a word to try
and explain what it's like to see them on screen together.
Because, you know, we've all seen Arnold Schwarzenegger
films. Maybe we've not watched Bridget
Nielsen in films before. She's less of a kind of a figure
for that. But it's what Arnold
Schwarzenegger has become synonymous for.
And to the point of like in Terminator, Batman Forever, it's
what we expect from here. And he's kind of built his
that's, that's just what he is, right?
But normally there's probably a talented actor to for him to
bounce off of. So when you have the pair of
them leading, either, you know, a key part of the storyline,
emotion, anger, anguish. It is it is quite a spectacular
thing to to kind of witnesses who's the most it's.
Giving it's giving porn parody again.
Yeah. I mean, absolutely.
There's a bit where it was like I think when the sister died and
I wrote in my notes, Oh my God, this is an SNL sketch now,
because it's just, there's not a chance in hell this is like,
this is literally Kristen Wiig pretending to be like a sexy
Danish. And then already just being that
already there, being like, your sister is dead.
But yeah, so he was. They weren't allowed to call him
Conan, even though they were basically calling him Conan.
Red Sonia is from the Conan universe, so people, they were
trading on that. And yeah, he's dressed like
Conan. He is Conan.
He's just called Calador. That's so stupid.
I love it though. Yeah, yeah.
So Conan has found Sonia. He brings her to Varna.
Varna's dying before she does. She tells Sonia to find the
Talisman and to send it Into Darkness before it ravages the
world with storms and earthquakes.
Conan Calador offers to accompany Sonia, who rejects the
offer because she hates men. She.
Hates them. Well, no, she hates.
Men. Yeah, let's say how she I hate
men is more the kind of tone of her delivery.
I don't need any man's help. I don't need any man.
That's that's pretty good. There we go.
So we can yada yada yada. And there's various adventures
on the way to finding Queen Gedrin, including lots of
fights, more rape threats, and Sonia killing lots of men.
And there's some fun beheadings. Yeah.
There you go. Yeah, if you watch it on
YouTube, you don't see any beheadings, I'll just warn you.
So another reason to watch the 4K remaster.
There's a lot of heads spinning into the air.
Yeah, which is very satisfying. I will give it that, absolutely.
She at least kills everyone who threatens to rape her.
I don't believe in the glorification of murder.
I do believe in the empowerment of women.
So should we talk about the violence?
Should we talk about? Sure.
Yeah. Because, I mean, this is
something I liked about the movie was I liked how physically
capable she was in the role. Yes.
Like there's a there's a lot of sword fights and they aren't we.
If you listen to our previous episode, we on Charlie's Angels,
we spoke about how as women in action films, their roles sort
of flip between, you know, one minute they're these kick ass
fighters and then the next they're kind of these like
desperate single women are just fawning over men.
You don't get that in this. And I don't know if that's maybe
due to her limitations as an actress, but but like, the fight
scenes are really juicy, aren't they?
Yeah, they are. She's, she brings a lot of
physicality to the role and apparently she was cast 8 weeks
before the filming started, so she didn't have a lot of time to
learn sword fighting or anything like that.
And she does a pretty good job, I'd say.
It looks physical, it looks demanding.
It looks like she's really throwing herself in.
You know, I kind of buy all the fight scenes and.
She also is fighting mainly men, Yeah.
And which again, I think is a trope we always sort of discuss,
like Batman Forever, we discussed, oh, God forbid that
Poison Ivy fights a man. You know, it's, it's like it,
you know, that's basically the sole reason Alicia Silverstone's
in that movie. But it's just really nice to
kind of see someone who was meant to be an incredible
fighter taking on men and armies.
I mean, the only time I really didn't like it was when there
was that like the guy with the fat belly that she was going to
slice open and then she beat and killed him.
But then all of his like army and it was like she didn't get a
chance to fight them. And that's when the old Conan,
Oh my God, it's not Conan. Arnold Schwarzenegger comes in
and he does that work. Yeah, he kind of saves her.
Yeah. And it's just, I was a bit like,
we don't really need to see that there, but.
No, it'd be nice. I can see why the plot needed
him to save her at some point. It would have been nice if the
first time she was like, fuck off, I don't need you, and she
just killed all of them herself. Yeah, totally.
It would have been good, yeah. Absolutely.
But in saying that though, there's still, it's still quite
an interesting representation of a woman in the 80s playing an
action role, I think. And like, aside from like how
incredible she looks, like the outfit is hot, like she looks
gorgeous, she doesn't play up to her sexuality at all in the
movie. No, you'd never get like a
lingering shot on a on her butt. She's not in the shower at some
point. It's never she's never really
sexualized by the camera and. Yeah, that's really true.
I mean, how can you be with the mullet like that?
It's a spectacular mullet. It is a severe mullet up in
here. I think I was watching this and
thinking, I think that might be a new camp clue.
If there's a prominent mullet in the movie, you might be watching
a camp movie. I mean, she's got inches on that
mullet. Yeah, it's like down to her butt
now. Is that a practical thing?
Because I'm thinking if I'm I'm just trying to get in the head
of the character a little bit now.
So if I'm red Sonia and I'm getting my haircut, is it that I
just need, you know, I need it like, you know, business at the
front, party at the back kind of vibe.
So, you know, day-to-day, if I'm going to be fighting and stuff,
I don't want my hair getting in my face like, so let's keep it
like really short at the front. But then maybe just to kind of
give me my glamorous fantasy, I go for the long inches at the
back. Is that the reasoning, do we
think? Interesting.
Sure. Yeah, I buy it.
I buy it. It's funny that they went for
mullet because I don't think the character is like known for it.
So it's just, I guess just a real sign of the the times.
It's just like, what is a cool haircut for her to have in 1985?
And they were like this mullet. There you go.
And yeah. And back to her sexualization as
a character. I also really appreciated that
there wasn't any kind of language with her being like,
oh, maybe we can come to an arrangement kind of thing.
And then she fights. It's from the get go, like, I'm
going to kill you. I don't trust men.
She was never, she was never playing on her sexuality as like
one of the tools in her arsenal. Which I don't think either of us
can relate to but go off stairs. Thanks, Syphilis.
Yeah, totally, totally. It's all that's also quite funny
when you think about the source material, which she's often held
up as like the poster child of the male gaze.
Like if you look at her depiction in the comics, she's
chainmail bikini. She is like the OG girl who wore
the impractical outfit to be a fighter.
It was just tits, big red hair, lots of ass, like a basically a
thong chainmail bikini. And so it's it's kind of
interesting that they didn't go down that route at all with
this. And especially as they cast
Bridget Nielsen from being a model as well, and you think
that would be one of the reasons.
But maybe it was just a lack of ability to give anything a
camera. Maybe they tried to make her
sexier in that way, and it was just like, oh, Nope, you're not
getting that baby. It's giving very like, early Gal
Gadot. I can't say her name.
Yeah. You're so right.
And enough champagne to fill the Nile.
It's very bad, isn't it? Carl L No.
What do we think of the other
characters? What do we think of the other
characters in this movie? I was going to kind of avoid
talking about them because they annoyed me so much.
I mean, we can do a quick, I mean, there's like a bratty kid
Prince. Yeah.
Who thinks he's the shit, basically.
He's the Comic Relief. He's the wisecracking kid that
every 80s movie had to have. He's also terrible.
He's he's the worst part of the movie for me.
I mean, he's good at like, martial arts.
Martial arts, yeah, that he's doing.
They've obviously hired him for that.
And I think something that was quite like refreshing for me to
see in an 80s movie was that a POC child was hired for the role
of like, you know, a far off land kind of thing rather than
like the Drew Barrymore of it all.
And then kind of. Right.
Or like, yeah. Getting probably called
crankies. Yeah, just.
I was like, OK, there was 1 scene in particular that I kind
of, and I feel like this was another theme that was coming
through the movie. It feels like the ghost of
heteronormativity is keep creeping up on Red Somya.
Do you know what I mean? Because at the start of the
movie, I mean she's very no homo as we discussed, but she's also
no male. She's you know, she's our
asexual diva. You know, she's getting on with
her life. That doesn't need to be part of
her thing. But then, you know, obviously
Conan the Barbarian is like slowly trying to fuck her and
then everyone else wants to fuck her.
And then she slowly sort of starts to get feelings for
Conan. This this KID, they sort of
tried to introduce this idea, this like maternal thing between
them. I just wasn't, yeah, here for
her as well. But I mean, that turns out very
quickly when he's holding the sword and she comes behind him
and she's like, you're not holding it properly.
You need to be gentle. And it's literally, I'm allowed
to say it because the kids, it's the 80's, the kids a grown man
now he's holding the sword in like an erect penis area and
she's coming from behind and she's like gripping it.
And I was like, how is this? How has this made the car?
Because you could imagine this if this was an adult, it being
like a. A sexy and I'm not sexualized.
It's pottery. Because he's literally being
this like wannabe toxic man but then he's like swinging around
his sword which obviously has phallic connotations.
I was disturbed by the paedophilic nature of this
scene, which is a not a camp. Thing.
Thank you for highlighting that. I know it was a long winded way
around but I had to get there. And it's another example of this
movie just being quite weird in lots of ways.
And I don't mean paedophilia weird.
Just like now we've got a zany child emperor martial artist kid
and his sidekick, and they're gonna also be in this movie, I
guess. We've then got Gedrin's gay
wizard. Oh.
Yeah, I forgot about that one. So he.
So we cut to Gedrin's castle and we.
I'm sorry, like the realization has just hit me again.
Explain it all, let me relive it so.
We've just cut, we cut to Gedrin's fortress and they get
alerted that someone's approaching the fortress.
And so the so Gedrin's gay wizard who is fab, he's got like
6 inch nails and he's just all about potions.
He uses a magic screen to show everyone in the throne room the
approaching enemies, but he turns on his magic screen and
there's just a sexy lady dancing topless and everyone in the room
kind of goes like awkward and it's basically like they caught
Gedrin watching her porn and she'd forgotten to close her
tabs. It's spectacular, yeah.
It is so fucking weird. It doesn't really get addressed.
You're not entirely sure what you're supposed to see, but
either the gay wizard was wanking over this topless lady,
which he wasn't because he's so faggy.
And like you said, has nails did.
There's no. Way or it's the lesbian queen
who we know. Who's already got her little
prisoner woman? Lesbian sex slave, yeah.
I mean, it's such an unnecessary touch, but I'm here for it.
It was so crazy, I had to rewind it and watch.
I was like, did I just? Yeah, so it's like, what in the
Pink palace is this this place? Yeah, it's, I think they're
probably trying to be like, look how depraved this lady is.
It's This movie does not like lesbians.
No, it really doesn't. And I mean, I, you know, that
was something I was yearning a bit more for in this movie,
especially with the the sort of the yada yada opening where
rape, betrayal, it's all crammed into like such a short period of
time. I wanted a bit more desperation,
a bit more of her lusting for Red Sonia.
Whereas I wrote down something I noticed and picked up about the
film was about how her fashion decays over the duration of this
movie. So the queen.
Queen, Yeah, it's like we start seeing her in less finery.
At one point she's wearing like a beaded gold, a gold shawl.
Then it's sort of right at the end, it's giving sort of a nice
top and a pair of jeans kind of vibe like a little.
She's got a Christmas party. They've literally given up on
her wardrobe as the scenes have progressed.
And I don't know if there's more meaning to that, but that that
was something that really stood out to me with this.
Movie I love this queen. I mean, I'm always going to
stand on evil lesbian she. Could she be more evil though?
She could be more evil, she could be more lesbian, but she
does have like a sexy concubine woman who she's willing to
sacrifice. She does have a Kunti kind of
gold face mask that kind of looks like one of those ones you
get from Timu. Yes.
And she wants Sonia to come to the fortress unharmed because
she's not finished with her yet. I mean, this woman also is a is
an. A terrible actress.
Yeah. You know, You know, I was
watching this and I was trying to think who I'd recast her as.
Kelly Lynch from Charlie's Angels, the movie.
I just, I think Kelly Lynch could have done a great job
here. Yes, I think Gedrin and Kelly
Lynch, like there's there's something say me about them.
It's very much, it's very much like AD movie role level.
But you know, I wouldn't want to Chuck it.
For instance, you know, off the top of my head, a Gina Gershon
would have been spectacular in this role.
But this isn't a spectacular movie that deserves a Gina
Gershon. This deserves a Kelly Lynch.
She would have just given a little a little something else.
I love, I love that Kelly Lynch is my new obsession on this
podcast. You're so right and we both we
already know that she can do the like wet look legging thing
which Kedrin Kedrin ends up in she.
Would have had more of a blowout situation though.
Yeah, yeah. There's no way she would have
gone for the flat like Bob thing that that she's got.
The actress who plays Gedrin was supposed to play Red Sonia, but
she decided she didn't want to do it because she didn't want to
get typecast because she'd played the love interest in
Conan. One maybe I.
Think you should be grateful you've got a part, But also,
that's a big swing, isn't it? I won't be playing the lead,
I'll be playing the villain of the piece.
It's like, what kind of hole did she have on this movie?
Who is she? Well, she's the queen of
everything plot wise. Some more yadda yadda Yadda's.
And then the everybody makes it to Gedrin's fortress and the
fortress is splitting and collapsing because the Talisman
is getting out of control. Powerful.
Everything's falling apart and the floors are splitting.
And then we're into our final showdown.
So Sonia confronts Gedrin and they fight, but Gedrin's gay
wizard is making Gedrin teleport all around the room and she's
and he's using like some voodoo on song.
Again, you make that sound way more exciting than it is.
Like doesn't she just teleports once from like the front?
I think, I think she teleports 3 times, but it does look really
bad every time. OK, it's like, it's like Power
Rangers fights. Yes, but again, I I really enjoy
how she because you know, and the gay wizard cuts red Sonia,
right, So she's all of a sudden, Oh my God, I'm bleeding.
It's very masters of the universe sort of section when he
man's getting whipped. But I love how like the old
queen like is laughing and then she just laughs and like nods
over to the gay wizard, which then instantly means that red
Sonia kills the gay wizard. It's like, what an asshole.
Yeah, she gives up like this really pointed look.
It's like, oh wow, you really gave that away.
It's so good. I also, it's got the Faye
Dunaways for me in the sense that someone is clearly off
camera shaking the throne. I was thinking, yeah, there's
some studio people shaking that throne there, and then the crack
opens, doesn't it? Yeah.
And so then they go into a candle covered room, Sonya's cut
off the gay wizard's head, and it's Sonya versus Gedrin They're
fighting. Sonya kills, stabs, gathering
through the heart and sends her plummeting to her death.
I mean. It was no surprise that Red
Sonia, who's like 6 foot and this like fighter that we've
seen like kick the shit out of everyone else in the film, like
nothing about the Queen suggests that she's going to do well in a
fight. That's it.
Now, she does hold up surprisingly well, but it
doesn't really make any sense. I guess if you live in Hercania,
you just one thing you need to know is sword fighting.
Yeah, yeah. It's just it's a tough land.
Everybody escapes the volcano, consumes the castle.
Sonia and Khaled or Kiss. Feminism solved the end all.
Destroyed. In.
One fell swoop. Yeah, OK.
That's the plot of Red Sonia. I'm not going to lie, I thought
you got to the end of it midway. I thought we would finish and
just talking about bits of the film.
Oh, right. Well, because it's a very
repetitive plot, isn't it? Yeah, it is.
It is, it is. I mean, it, it ends exactly how
you think it's going to end. There's nothing.
There's no big surprises. But I would say, I would just
echo what I said before, is that it does stay weird.
It it continues to be weird in in ways that I, I don't know, I
can't really think of other movies like it.
And that was just delightful because how often do you get
surprised by a movie anymore? If that's true, yeah.
What parts were there any parts that of it that you've also that
you found camp? Because I there's there's two
moments that I really enjoyed that are quite small details.
And that's when Red Sonia is no, when Vanya is fleeing the first
massacre in the castle and she's escaping.
I really enjoyed that. She's like, is the castle based
in like an outdoors adventure park because it's got the zip
wire and she just sort of jumps on that.
And I was like, where are we? What in the like Go Ape is going
on now? So that that was one thing for
me. And then I also really like it
where they it's like they're in a theme park and the monster
they fight is just this badly mechanical creature.
And it made me think of Berlin. Oh my God, you're so right.
Yeah, Monster cabinet. Oh my God, you're right.
Because they're both fighting and it's literally this.
The metal monster just does like 2 movements in the water doesn't
it? It's just like, like on top of
it fighting it and I'm like, what the fuck?
But like you say that it looks so bad, but I also was like, I
was thinking to myself, like, OK, but in 85, this was probably
like quite an expensive thing to do.
And they've built a big set piece, they've flooded it.
They've got this mechanical monster.
It's like this looks complicated to do, and yet the result is
still really, really bad. Well.
Since you were saying they conned Arnie into this movie, I
was wondering, do you think he also just was like he went to
like the, you know, the lock up where all the props and the
costume were for Conan and was like, right, let's break in here
and just nick him because like rather than like make.
That make sense? Specific things it's give, you
know, I wonder whether a lot of these films like how recycled a
lot of those costumes are well. Because I think the costumes in
this movie are spectacular. There's like except for the
Queen. Yeah, except for the queen.
Except for the queen, because at the end she is wearing a pair of
leggings and a piece of gold Lemay wrapped around her waist.
Yeah. But for the most part, like
those priestesses, they look amazing.
The grandmaster. That is so cool.
All of the like background villains are in these like
elaborate headdresses and like big armor pieces, and someone
was having a very fun time like creating a world.
I aesthetic I really love in the sort of 80s movies, fantasy
movies is when they merge with like painted backgrounds and
they're kind of they're like these fantasy backgrounds, but
they're sort of quite painterly and I just think I love that
it's just it looks like really gorgeous and it's not attempting
to be real. It's kind of a bit like Wizard
of Oz like, but the next step forward.
And I always just think that looks really beautiful.
So I love it whenever they do that kind of thing in these
movies. Totally.
It's, yeah, there's a lot of theatricality to these sets
where you're like, you can't really shoot this from other
angles, can you? Because it won't work.
So you have to shoot it from one place.
So you kind of feel like you're in a theatre watching some of
the scenes, which doesn't necessarily help it feel like a
real thing you're watching, but it does give it a fun effect.
What do we think about this whole bloody on are they, aren't
they thing with Brigitte and Arnie?
Because they did fuck in the end, didn't they?
But it's like this whole thing that they're fighting and yeah,
I mean, what do you think about all of this?
I feel like we just need to discuss it a bit.
Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a real problem for me.
So this whole movie is about basically about Sonia hating men
and learning to love them again, but it very clumsily sets up the
reason that she hates men as the fact that she was horribly
raped. And then it immediately pivots
away from that and basically implies that she just needs to
get over it. So it's like it's the, the, the,
the inciting rape in this movie is like the reason that it all
kicks off, which is like already a real fucking problem.
Like you should not use sexual violence against women as a
motivating factor for a character.
Then you also if you're going to do that then don't immediately
on the next in the next scene be like get over yourself.
You need to learn to love again. Like basically this movie has no
business trying to make any commentary about any of it.
She just doesn't have the vernacular that she thinks she
possesses. I think we needed a rule that
men shouldn't be allowed to depict rape in movies.
I think we need a rule until they can be trusted to handle it
appropriately. No men dealing with rape.
Yeah. And then it's it's this whole
challenge that she sets Arnie, isn't it?
Which is, you know, the only man who can ever have me is someone
who beats me in a fight. And he even implies so that's
someone that wants to kill you. And it's like, that's an
interesting concept. But then they like, they go for
that fight, don't they? And it's like this thing where
they're fighting. And it's like, again, the
dynamics there are really off because you're like, she's
fighting to not then let a man have her.
And it's why is she doing that? And then the kid, the bratty
little kid even comments on it like, who's she kidding?
We all know she doesn't want to win, right?
He says that during the first fight.
And it's just like. Oh yeah, basically, the movie
implies that she's frigid when actually she's been through a
horrible, horrible trauma. Yeah, and I mean, maybe she is
homophobic, but that was pre all of this stuff.
So that's that's a different thing.
That's a different problem and and we have kind of have no
choice but to stand our homophobic queen.
I just, yeah, there's something about, look, I don't know, maybe
I'm thinking differently about homophobic people, but there's
something about that moment that I'm just like, hell yeah, get
her. And then yeah, at the end, I
don't know. I mean, they never would have
done this. But again, I think when we talk
about these movies, we like to fantasize about different
endings and different. I was thinking because at the
end they sort of reinstate this fight idea and this time around
it's he thinks he's being clever and he's like, oh, well, the
only woman I'd let you know, spend time with me is a woman
that can beat me in the fight. And then that's the sort of the
prompt for Sonia to fight him. And this they go to do their
sword fight and then they lock swords and then that's when they
kiss. And that's the end of this
fucking awful film. But I thought it would have been
spectacular if that's when Sonia got her sword and stabbed and
killed Arnold Schwarzenegger. And then there was like a flare
of music and it's like Red Sonia.
And then she just goes off into the distance and she still hates
men. And I was like, that could have
saved a huge section of this of this film for me.
I think I do believe in the empowerment of women.
Imagine, but I kind of. Feel like because the the the
history of this film, like since this movie, there's been so many
talks of people remaking it. So there was Robert Rodriguez
was going to remake this with our good, good friends.
Yes. Friend of the show Rose McGowan
and there was like an incredible poster.
Yes, for that. Like licking blood off a sword.
Yeah. And then there's like another
one of like all of these skulls, like piled up and she's like
holding a sword in it. It was very much in the era of
sort of Sin City and that aesthetic.
And yeah, I mean, obviously I don't know how far down the line
that version got, but it obviously must have got quite
far to have had, like, studio artwork teasing it.
But I feel like that's kind of, I feel like there's a world
where I want like, if you're going to get like a vengeful
Sonia, I want more fury. Totally, totally, totally,
totally. She's just, like, completely
unhinged. And yeah, you actually just see
the rage. I mean, there is a catharsis in
this movie for the character. There is like, she does kind of
get her revenge, and that is satisfying to see.
But it's also told against this lens of her learning to love
again, which it just feels really inappropriate based on
the trauma that she's been through.
Yeah, I I watched Planet Terror recently.
We were talking about it, and that's obviously Robert
Rodriguez with Rose McGowan. And there's a rape scene in that
as well. That's like God, you just who
is? That oh, I haven't seen that
film for a while, so I don't remember that.
Oh. Quentin Tarantino makes a cameo
and then he's like, going to try and rape Rose McGowan, and then
but he's turning into a zombie and his penis is melting off.
It's like, horrifying in lots of ways.
But even despite it being portrayed as like a thing that a
bad man does, there's still this element that you're like, the
straight man is still making this and there's a chance that
he's finding it all a bit titillating, which is just so
gross. Anyway, at least this movie
doesn't really sexualize her interestingly.
It doesn't. It doesn't.
And despite her looking incredible and her outfit is hot
like it, I, I, it's interesting. I was like, Oh my God, I bet.
And Beyoncé, Pink and Brittany, they must have taken some
reference points from this, maybe Pink in particular,
because I I was kind of like, I've seen this in that Pepsi
commercial. You're so right.
It's it's also very Xena. Yeah, exactly.
And she does look hot, but there's, she doesn't have
costume changes. She doesn't have, there's just
not that element to it. And I liked that, even though I
didn't like the bigger picture that we're talking about, I
liked that she was so asexual. And I just thought that was a
really interesting thing to see because like, you know, we talk
about stages of films linked to when they were made.
And I just think it's really nice to see a character not
depend on sexuality. Totally.
But yeah, I mean, almost everything about this movie is
really, really, really bad. Oh yeah, totally.
The acting is terrible, the story is terrible, the script is
terrible. Do you know something else I've
found so jarring was how silent the the the film is?
And I don't know if that's just because we're so used to like
big musical scores on things, but like, there's so much dead
air in this film. But that's so weird because
they've they had Enyo Morricone. I'm probably pronouncing that
wrong. Who's like a really famous film
scorer? Composer.
Wow.
He's a very famous composer. And so it was like a big thing.
Like it's even on the poster music by you know.
Do you think so they can afford the full package it's like.
Yeah, maybe they this is what you're using for the opening
credits. And then after that, we're going
to have the. Budgets run out.
And then because like, yeah, like the end scene, which is
where you really want like big, like dramatic in that last
fight. And there's just.
It's just. Nothing.
It's so weird. It's so weird, and I know I'm
only thinking about this movie because we just watched it, but
it did remind me a bit of Vamp in the like, low budget, just
like it's trying to be something bigger than it has any capacity
to be. But I think what made it much
more fun and watchable for me was that it had a female lead.
So at least whenever I was like whenever the movie was shit, I
still had something out, someone to watch that I was interested
in. Whereas we had two straight men
leads in Vamp and I was like, I just don't care what happens
them and I want them off the screen immediately.
I never wanted her off the screen.
Yeah. And in fact, I was like, oh,
maybe soon she's going to be on screen with the evil lesbian
witch and that'll be even better.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I was kind of constantly excited about like, what was
going to happen, even though I knew I was watching something
that was just a piece of shit. I mean, we've mentioned this
before, and this is a problem for me and for you in in
assessing a camp classic. If I'm getting bored, that's not
a camp movie. And there were parts of this
where I was like, this is boring and it's still a punchy 90
minute film. Like it's not.
But I not even 90 minute. Is it not?
But I literally I was watching it like, oh God, when is this
going to end? And that's, that's not a good
sign of a of you, is it? It's not a great sign.
It's like another one of those movies where if you distilled
the camp moments into like a 10 minute super cut, you'd be like,
wow, this looks really fun. Like actually even that 4K
trailer. Yeah, I don't know if you
watched the the trailer for the remaster, but it makes it look
really. But that's why I know I keep on
going back to the opening. And aside from those sort of how
they deal with the rape in it, it's also quick and like magical
and like a bit deliriously, like, we're about to, you know,
kick some shit into gear. Let's go.
And it just doesn't have any of that pacing in the rest of the
movie. No, I felt, I still felt hopeful
for the first, like probably quarter of it because I thought
those priestesses with the swords were Kunti.
I was like, oh, they're actually getting, things are getting
really surprisingly violent and like it's staying weird and oh,
what's this like giant Buddha statue and she's fighting with
this weird sword master. Like it was staying weird.
And then and then, yeah, it really did lose its way in the
middle when she's just like on her way to the fortress and
having to like deal with all of the challenges on the way.
Also as well, the other thing I found very funny, and maybe in
some cultures, this is just what you do.
But like, I love how she just burns her sister sets her on
fire at the beginning. I'm like, because that's what we
do style. Yeah, you're going up in flames.
Bye. My sister is dead, I don't need.
Any man's help? One thing maybe we haven't
really talked about is, yeah, maybe we have.
But evil lesbians? Love evil lesbians.
Yeah, just more of them, right? Why is why is homophobia OK when
it's in the 80s? But yeah, do you know what I
mean? It's just.
Funny, I think. Evil lesbians have way more
potential than what we saw in this movie and like, let's get
really fucking evil, OK? Sure, sure, sure, sure.
I'm like no, I agree, but like it.
There is something funny about 80s homophobia.
I don't know it, it tickles me, it tickles me and also it's just
refreshing because we're so. Used to like.
No, no, because. We're so used.
We're so used to like queer coated male villains and like,
it's not that often you get a just an out and out evil
lesbian. Yeah, and we welcome it with
open arms. We do.
But as I said, imagine someone
like a Gina Gershon playing that.
Aren't you gonna come here and give me a big kiss?
God just yeah, recast this with Gina Gershon and Elizabeth I
just. Think it's like it's the kind of
genre of film where like as actors you can really chew up
the scenery more with these kind of roles and they didn't.
Know everybody felt a little bit bored.
It's very like, yeah, here's the meal.
You could dive straight in, but you're all on the Zen pic, so
you're not. You can't really.
Eat at the moment. So it's just very like a lettuce
leaf. This is all I can manage.
Would you recommend people watch this movie?
No, I don't think I would. I don't.
I didn't this. I didn't not enjoy it, but I
don't. I mean, I can say I'm never
going to watch this movie ever again.
I can definitely say that. And what about you, I?
Don't think so, but I am really happy to have seen it.
And it also feels a little bit like a hidden, like I don't
think anyone's seen this movie. Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? The.
The only thing it has done as well as like you mentioning some
of the other films and having looked at the posters of
Brigitte Nielsen's films, I definitely would love to scroll
through them and just sort of see the scenes that she's in and
just get more of a tapestry of what she's like as an actress.
No, I don't. The posters alone are selling
the concept to me. Well, should we rate this movie?
I think we should, yes. OK, it's time to give it a
rating on our patented campometer.
We need to give it 10 Merrells. Bon Appetit for the quality and
10 Lizas for the camp factor. OK Merrells, now I know you're
about to give this movie 0 Merrells.
And you would be correct, yes. But you're going to stop me,
aren't you? No, I'm.
Not going to let you, but I'm just going to get in there and
you know what? I am going to give one, Meryl,
to the costume designer because I enjoyed it, OK?
I enjoyed the costumes and they went for something and they took
a big swing and I think it mostly paid off.
OK, Yeah. I'm going to recognize their
work here on this podcast. Yeah, I no.
Do you know what I'm going to give?
No, I was going to say I'm going to give one point to the to just
the opening scene, but I can't because of the rape in it.
And it's just like it sets a murky time for the entire film
that then it doesn't sort of. No, it's it's really bad.
I mean, yeah, it's it's terrible. 0 Merrills.
I'm, I'm giving it, yeah. Ground breaking.
OK, what about Liza's? How camp is this movie?
I mean, that's a, it's a very, I feel like this is complicated
camp now. Yeah, it is because it is.
The fact that Prigine Nelson cannot act makes this film very,
very camp. Like very, very calm you've.
Got every person in this movie unable to act.
Every single one. There is not a single actor in
the movie. Which is an achievement.
I know it's a low budget Hollywood film, but that is an
achievement. There's not just one person that
was like, oh, do you know they were underused?
No, everybody was used today we're.
Going to make an English language movie with a bunch of
people with English as their second language that are former
models. I mean, again, that's quite camp
in itself. That's the premise.
That is quite camp. And you know, there are elements
like, you know, the, the sex hole, the evil lesbian, the gay
magician. I mean, there are.
Gay magician. What?
I will say the porn screensaver. Yeah, the porn.
OK, so this is a camp film, but it's not a camp classic in my
mind, so I'm gonna give it 5. It is camp though, in my mind.
What about you? I'm going back to the list
Unlocks Queer joy. Yeah, but it it was I was wet
and then I was dry. I was wet, then I was dry.
Sounds like you need to go back
to that clinic again. Get that swab in you again.
Thanks. Syphilis ongoing legacy.
I mean, we've we've had a reboot this year.
So stupid. It's genius.
Yeah. Underdog plot vibes.
I mean, huge underdog plot vibes.
I think I'm going to give it. I'm going to give it 7 lies.
OK, OK. I'm giving it 7.
I respect that. Yeah, I think it belongs.
I think it deserves to be seen by queer people.
I think it is a funny experience and I I wish it wasn't quite so
forgotten. I also wish it was better.
I wish it went down a little bit easier.
But it's got a lot to redeem it, I think.
I think for me, I think I completely agree with you.
I think the reason it doesn't quite work for me is I just, as
I said, I just got a bit bored with it.
Yeah, and it just took too long. Whereas I I compare it to films
like Key Man, Masters of the Universe and Supergirl.
And for me they're similar in salt, but they're a bit more
deliriously like, what the fuck is going on?
There's more to kind of keep my mind occupied.
And this was. That's so true.
Whereas with this, as you said though, when it gets you wet,
you're dripping but you just dry up very quickly.
Yeah, yeah, no, Supergirl is a great comparison because they
are very similar in lots of ways.
But yeah, Supergirl just the pacing never lets up.
It just stays relentlessly camp. Yeah.
Yeah, but you know, I'm glad that we I'm glad we discussed
this one. Yeah, and stay tuned in a moment
for my interview with MJ Bassett, the director of the new
Red Sonia. Because we are what?
Journalists. Sure, Jan.
Yeah. Well, I'm not, I'm not allowed
in on the interview. But no, I'm very excited to hear
this. Well done, Crystal.
Who's going to be next? We need to, we need to get the
black book out and get some more names in, don't we?
I'm working on it baby. OK, we're working on it.
Well, listen, whilst that, it's been a lovely chat with you
Crystal, and I'm gonna miss you when I'm gone.
See you on the other side. I hope the rehab takes this
time. Yeah.
Fingers crossed, fingers crossed.
And we'll be back in two more weeks with another Camp Classic.
Hi, I'm Jay. Welcome to Camp Classics.
Thank you very much. Well, and happy to be.
Here. Thank you for being here and
Congrats on Red Sonia, it's fab. Oh, that's good.
I'm glad. That is fab.
That was that was the that was the intention.
That was the intention. Good.
Well, congratulations you. You made your mark.
I want to get into something at the top, which is one thing that
we, when we discuss camp movies on this podcast is we look for
an element of queer joy. We say that's that something
camp is something that unlocks queer joy.
I'm wondering for you, what is something that unlocks queer joy
for you when you're watching a movie or ATV show?
Oh my goodness me, that's an what an interesting question.
I just thought, you know, when you watch somebody with
compassion and inclusivity, it's like it.
I don't, I don't need much. I just need to see a little bit
of I think it's compassion. The the moment, the moment you
see people engaging in a real way with maybe this leather
divert because I'm I'm woke as it comes, right.
So it's like, I just want to see somebody see, see an an other
person. And I mean, I mean, otherness in
the sense of different in those in those kind of very profound
ways and just go, it doesn't matter that you're not
different. I want people to not care.
That's what I really want is I don't want anything.
I mean, not to get political really quickly.
I don't want special treatment. I just want people not to give a
shit. I love that.
And if I can see that in a world where it's like, yeah, it
doesn't matter about diversity, doesn't matter about this, it's
fine. That's that's, that's my joy,
clear or not, right? I mean, apropos Sonia, right?
Well, the queer joy is the fact you have a transgender film
maker making it. And I had a really good time.
So that was my it was my joy. I.
Absolutely love that it's you're what you're saying is treating
things as so matter of fact that it's almost.
Yeah, it's it's, yeah, as you say, inconsequential.
And that's what I'm really looking for.
It's like I'm looking for things where it's it doesn't really,
you don't even want to hang a Lantern on these things.
It's just that's your part of the world, right?
The moment, the moment you identify things as other, then
that becomes about separation. And I'm not really interested in
in that. And I think what I wanted, what
I want in the world is I don't want and again, to be we need it
like trans awareness day, but I want trans ignoring day.
I want a day when we're not in the.
Headlines, yeah. I want a day when there's no
we're not being politicized. I want a day when nobody gives a
fuck about us. Right, but in an in an
incredibly benign, neutral way. Yeah.
I don't want to be politicized. So that's sort of my my queer
joy is to be ignored. Oh, I love that.
That's a new one for me. But actually I think it's
incredibly relevant in 2025. Yeah.
Thank you. The Could you tell me about some
of the movies that that shaped you, some of the things that
growing up that maybe sparked some queer queerness in you?
Well. No, because The thing is I never
really, I don't really call myself a queer filmmaker.
That's the other thing is like I tend to make quite robust genre,
genre stuff. And for most of my life, you
know, you identify things where you go, OK, I like the Rocky
Horror Show, but you know, like, OK, we'll fight, but then you
don't be queer for that. You have to be just a human
being with a kind of sense of rhythm.
But in terms, if you're asking me what influenced me as a
filmmaker, then that's one thing.
If you're asking me what introduced me as a queer
filmmaker, I'll say nothing because it didn't matter.
I love that. I love it.
Well, tell me about Tell me as a film maker then.
Well, yeah, OK, so Blade Runner is my favorite movie, right?
So that's there's that. But what influenced me, Alien is
the reason I became a film maker.
But so so you know, but I grew up on like the movies of Ray
Harryhaus and then Jason and the Argonauts, those kinds of films,
monster, creature features, monster movies.
That's what I adored. You know, I'd love Star Wars and
I'd like, well, that kind of, but but I never thought about
who made them. And then Ridley Scott just kind
of opened my eyes to, oh, you can do a thing.
And then I bought a video camera, those old bulky VHS
shoulder mounted video cameras and started making short films.
And everyone says, oh, you want to make short films about
animals? I said no, I want to blow shit
up because that was it's like allowed to make animal stuff
blow shit up and wear a dress and never knew about the dress
stuff for years. That sounds like queer joy to
me. That's queer joy, queer joy,
vital fire, many decades of unhappiness.
But yes, I got to it eventually. But it's that sense of what
films press a button in you. And I grew up on 80s kind of
action pictures and fantasy pictures and horror pictures,
right? So and you can you can argue a
lot, but the lot of horror is extremely campy.
Absolutely. But but I, and this is this is,
this is the wrong podcast to say this is I don't like camp very
much. That's okay.
I would say that I would say your your picture is is not camp
No to its credit, but the the OG is certainly is super camp,
super camp because I also. And, and, and it's like it's
what identifies something as as campy.
A lot of those, it's partly because it doesn't take itself.
The campness is a joy and a like a winkiness.
And it's like this notion of hey, we're all having a good
time here, folks. But that to a certain extent
breaks the 4th wall for me. So I don't want to step outside
that. I want you to watch Red Sonia
and go I but this is a believable real world with a
believable real character. And at no point do I say to the
audience, yeah, I know they're all dressing up and being silly
and running around with swords. So one of my push backs when I
was young watching the original Red Sonia was like, it's too
campy now. Also, clearly I was denying who
I was for decades, right? I knew I was tramped, but it's
like I'm not leaning into that because that's too embarrassing
and there's too many other things going on in my life
there. So I push back against camp as a
deliberate way of avoiding confronting who I was.
So there's that, which is just a way deeper conversation.
But but, and now I like I, I, I celebrate camp and I think it's
wonderful because I'm not ashamed of myself.
But it's still not in me as a film maker.
That makes sense. I do have AI mean there is a
werewolf musical, a transgender werewolf musical I want to make.
OK, you give with one hand and take with the other, right?
But I. Might and and that will probably
be a little Cam. Sounds like it's going to have
to be well, thank. You know, there's a version of
that where you just go, we're going to take this deadly series
there. That won't work, but there will
be. There will be just so much joy
in that. But yeah, so it's, it's the the
the journey for me was not not necessarily about finding a
queer joy in movies. It was much more about finding
this is these push my buttons emotionally and from a kinetic
action point of view. And I've made a lot of action TV
and movies and I'm very good at breaking things like blowing
shit up and crashing cars and shooting guns and having people
fight each other and fuck each other.
And that's sort of that's my sweet spot.
And as I've got older, I'm getting more able and more
comfortable with doing like, OK, let's deep reach into emotion a
little bit more because I'm not again, not embarrassed or
ashamed. And why, where can we find like
with Red Sonia? Ultimately, it's about
compassion and love. I mean, it really is at the end
of the day. I mean, there's lots of sword
fighting and monsters and and and violence and all those other
things. But the movie has has nothing to
say about women at all. It's not, it has no gender I
gender conversation at all, very, very specifically because
I think the moment you have the conversation, this is what I'm
saying about otherness and normalising things.
It's like, I don't give a shit whether Sonia's a woman or a
man. I give a give a shit that she's
a person, you know? And certainly versions of the
script did exist where it was she's a woman fighting men and
men are evil and cruel. And it's like, well, now I've
lived a lot in the male world and I don't think all men are
cruel at all. I think it's a bad conversation
to have. And also I'm much more concerned
about environmental issues, so I wanted to make she's a custodian
of the world and her femininity and her maternity and the kind
of the goddess element. So it's like I touched on that a
little bit, but it's still not a controlling element of the
movie. The controlling element of the
movie is she is a person in the world doing a thing and her
gender is inconsequential, and I think that's really important.
I guess that's maybe answers this question actually, but I
wanted to talk to you about, you know, the male gaze that's so
present in the source material and how I didn't see that in
this. And I think that was really
special. And how did you want to tackle
that? Or is it as you say, you just
wanted to make sure it wasn't a factor at all?
Well, it's with red Sonia the, you know, one of the defined
certainly the the comic book versions.
You know, she's iconic because of her look, not because of
anything she ever does. You know, she's a sports model
in a chainmail bikini, right? With that, that.
And so she's so iconic. There's no way I could make the
movie without addressing that and touching on that for myself.
I wasn't interested in in objectifying her.
And that was obviously that's part of the whole the fact that
she's a woman is inconsequential.
But you can't deny the audience. You can't deny that history.
So the, the the answer was to lean into it and say, oh, she's
going to wear a chainmail bikini.
It's not going to be her choice. It's going to be because
something is expected of her as as an object of gays from a
crowd, right? You know, in the way in the way
that I don't know, beach volleyball players, women were
expected to wear bikinis, right? Well, that's not about playing
volleyball, is it? That's nothing to do with the
the sport. That's something to do with how
people want to watch the sport. Now, by the way, it's up to an
individual to choose how they are viewed in the world.
I had no judgement on any of that at all.
But it's a similar for me. Sonia was a similar thing.
Is like she's presented to a crowd as a certain kind of woman
and then she immediately demonstrates she's not that kind
of woman. Right.
Exactly. Yeah, it's, it's it's a fabulous
meta conversation that's happening in the movie, which I
really, really liked. Another element, I guess that's
really present in the original, which is missing here in a
positive way. You know, sexual violence is a
real device for the character in the 80s movie.
What was the choice there? And the choice is that I
incredibly strongly object to using rape and sexual violence
to women as a motivating factor to give them power.
I think it's, I think it's horrendous.
And it was so common, right? But the only way one woman can
be strong is if she needs to commit violence against men.
And I think that's awful. And, and I know that it was a
trope and it continues to be a trope.
And I tried to avoid it desperately.
And I didn't think it mattered, right?
I mean, there's still, you know, like her village is destroyed
and she comes from a revenge, you know, like there's, there's,
there's still certain motivating factors.
And I don't, you know, I mean, like when you look at I Spit on
Your Grave and those old horror movies back in, you know,
there's always some element of violence.
And that's to not to diminish that sexual violence against
women is still incredibly prevalent, but I don't think it
should be a narrative device to give them power at all.
And so, yeah, it was a it was a total conscious choice.
I didn't want to do it. I wasn't interested in it.
It was a red line for me. Now it's interesting that
Matilda Lutz, who plays Red Sonya, is in an amazing movie
called Revenge, which sort of does deal with that.
Yeah, it's the kind of cathartic version.
It's a kind of cathartic, but well, ultimately it's always,
it's always slightly cathartic because most of the movies you
see the woman does get some kind of revenge or some is is
empowered, right? They do become a more powerful
person. I just think it's a terrible way
of getting there. And there are plenty of ways of
becoming empowered and strong without needing a man to have
violated you. I think my this is my opinion,
but that's I think that's the way I.
Totally agree, and as you say, I think there are ways to do it
that are good, but so often it was done by a male director and
there was an element of titillation in that.
Oh, well, that did that was that, that's a, that's a whole
other other thing. Again, it's like, I'm not, yeah,
I don't. I'm not going to judge anybody's
choices artistically, but absolutely, I think it's right.
Right to. No, I lied.
I do judge your choice statistically.
It's wrong. Don't do it.
It's fine. Judgement is very welcome on
this podcast and we talked about the sexual violence, but also
there isn't really a romance storyline in this movie either.
It's well, they're they're. Well, they're, it's interesting
when I, when I took the movie over, because it had been in
development for many, many years, there were lots of
iterations of the script and stories.
The studio guy who who owns the whole company was like I said,
this is what I'm going to do with I'm going to this one.
I'm going to do with the movie. He would like, I don't care what
you do with the movie. Just tell me, have you got this?
Is it going to have a love story?
And I said, oh, yes, it's going to have a love story.
And but it's not going to be. It's going to be about her
loving her horse. Right.
OK, the love story, The love story of the movie is the fact
that she loves her horse. It's her companion and actually
there's stuff, there's, there were things cut out of this edit
of the film, which explains that relationship even more strongly.
There's a scene where she has the baby horse and she raises
it. And I, and I thought, oh, well,
that's, that's something I can relate to because I always like
movies where you have, I remember growing up with those
movies where it's always about compassion towards an animal and
the natural world. And it's much easier to relate
to that. And I believe that's Cruise now.
She does have a little thing going on with Prince Osin.
She does. With play by Luca Pasquini and
he is, he's a beautiful, handsome man and I can
understand why she would fall for him.
But I don't consummate it. I don't make it a thing at all.
And maybe if we make a second movie, I'll deal with that
because I do think she needs to own her sexuality at some point.
And Red Sun is 100% bisexual in my view, because she just wants
she whatever she'll want. And I think she's grown in the
by the end of this movie, she's growing into a person who does
understand herself and her power and what she wants from the
world. And I definitely think there's a
version of her where she will be more engaged with her sensuality
and her sexuality. But it just didn't feel like it
was part of this story for her. That makes sense.
I mean, I was shipping Sonia and Anicia.
Well, yes, there's there's again, there's a scene cut out
where we definitely, definitely touch on that a little bit in
the in the sense there's a moment where they get more
physically intimate with each other and you just go, you
really should just kiss now, girls.
That's what I was yelling at the TV.
Very true. No, you're you're as 580
sentence was tingling correctly. Good, good.
I'm always looking for a lesbian where I can wherever I can find
one. They would be a very hot couple,
by the way. Absolutely.
But I I realized that if I opened, if I opened that
narrative thread, I had nowhere to go with it.
Ultimately fair. But yeah, Wallace is fantastic
and she's got she's Wallace days.
So stunning, So stunning. So stunning.
Last question, why should people see this movie?
I don't know, 'cause you've already seen Fantastic Four in
Jurassic World and there's nothing.
Humble Queen. But you should see the movie
because there's almost no sword and sorcery stuff made.
It's a really good version of a sword and sorcery movie.
It's got loads of action in it and violence, and it's got a
cyclops in it, for goodness sake.
When's the last time you saw a cyclops?
And it is a movie that ultimately has a positive
message about compassion and love and understanding, even in
the face of horrendous odds and a world which is cruel.
And I think we sort of might be living through that right now.
Yeah, I loved that theme. I loved that theme.
And actually my true last question.
We have a running trope on the podcast about evil women wearing
white suits. Would you be happy for Anisia to
be entered into the Hall of Fame of evil women wearing white?
She absolutely should be. She should be right up on the
throne there. Exactly.
She is, she is. She is the whitest of white
women, very white. It's incredible.
She was made for it. You are you, please, with my
blessing. Thank you so much and
congratulations on the movie. It's it's so fab and I can't
wait for everyone to see it. Thank you Gracel.
Get away from her, you bitch. Blessing.
He was in. The Amazon Primal when she was
researching spiders right before she died, no.
I thought you become a prostitute or a dog and it's I
used to love doggy chow. I used.
To love doggy chow too.