Get away from her you bitch. Classic.
He was in the Amazon cry along when she was researching spiders
right before she died. No, I thought you could call a
prostitute or a. Dog at it.
I used to love doggy chow. I used to love doggy chow too.
I feel like we've got the same one, so should we do it at the
same time? OK.
Yeah. Lights, camera and me without a
stitch of makeup on. Oh God, we're OK.
There's so many fucking ones to go in this, but that had to be
had. To be the one I'm Crystal.
And I'm baby name. Welcome to camp.
Classic. A thoughtful podcast about
stupid movies. Every two weeks we're here
discussing queer movies and why queer people love them and.
Do you know what? I'm glad that we've got you
because you're always doing these kind of like news spots,
You know, you're really into your activism and stuff.
And I think that's great and I love that for you.
But I just, I think it's a bit lightweight and I think what I
need from you is some actual serious dissection.
Yeah, not too serious. We don't want to get Michael
Bailenson angry. Oh, sorry, yeah.
Gotta keep it light. Because I was thinking maybe we
could change the name of the podcast to something like.
Woke alert Yeah to woke gays. Being woke.
Oh God, this movie would not pass the.
Test we are Well, there goes your social life.
We do have a new five star Apple review from Caitlin.
I think it's Caitlin, they say. I love this podcast.
It's funny, expands my cultural horizons and it taught me the
science behind how candles work. That's what we're here for.
Because I do like this sort of scientific element as well that
we bring to this podcast. Yeah, I.
Wonder if we'll get into any science today how pork products
are made. I've been enjoying Saint Paul
pork products for years. Oh yeah, someone else sent us a
message as well. I don't know if you saw this on
Instagram. Goonstruck and message us going.
Thank you so much for being my guides through a six hour drive.
I cannot wait to see what you cover next.
Imagine. Listen, Ducks is 6 hours.
Oh, that's quite a lot of pressure.
Bit of pressure. Do you know what?
If I was listening to us for six hours, I literally, I think I
just turned. On Louise.
Yeah, just come off the side. Yeah, just be done.
Yeah, just into the blue. Let's keep.
Going I'm glad that we could like keep you awake, God.
I wonder. I know I should be saying this,
but you know, you do have other options to look at other things.
We're not the only podcast that's available, but.
No, we are the only podcast, the original podcast, and definitely
the only podcast where gay people talk about movies.
I've noticed that as well, there's no one else doing it.
Yeah, gosh, new boundaries finally breaking new ground.
We also have a gay tree on if you, I mean if you've exhausted
the main feed and you do need some more content for your next
long distance. Road and savvy with it now
because we're putting the good ones behind.
The right Yeah, the latest episode was on Batman Returns.
Meow, which is quite a highly requested fun for us to cover
00. Did we do that?
Yeah, it's only £4 a month and you can get a free trial and you
can binge them all and then cancel.
That's like a hookup, isn't it? And then ghosting.
Yeah. So come over, fuck us, rule,
talk us, leave and then block. I think if you're listening to
our podcast, you're the one getting fucked, especially if
you're paying for it. Boo, you whore.
But you can be like new members Coleman, Rhydian and Juniper.
Oh, I know that classy list of new subscribers.
Finally, but. Kind of sounds like, yeah, this
maybe like a stuff you'd put in a witch's potion.
Coleman. Riddian Juniper.
Something your mum would send you?
A Christmas present. Stained panties.
I can't wait to hear what you get this year.
I also thought because this this is coming out the new year, it's
we're recording pre Christmas, but it's coming out in the new
year, I thought we could remind ourselves of all the movies
we've given 10 Lies as to just great.
Yeah. Just to see, you know, if we
still stand by everything, the top scoring in terms of like
Merrill's analyzers was Kerry 10, Lizers 9.
Merrill's stand by that. Only 9 Merrill's.
Only 9. Yeah, OK.
I just we're hard on this that we. 9 is an amazing score.
It's not ten, though. Then it's Mommy Dearest with 10
Lizers and 6 1/2 Merrill's. Yeah, fair.
Elvira 5 Merrills Yeah, yeah. And then I know who killed me. 4
Merrills. Surprising.
And then? Yeah.
Why did that get 4 Merrills? Yeah.
And then going into like our perfect score territory, we've
got barbed wire, and Batman and Robin both got 1, Merrill, 10
lizes. Stand by that.
Yeah, and Supergirl got 0 Merrills.
So if you're looking for a movie to watch, the campus of Camp
Classics apparently is Supergirl.
I would say it's up there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
But also, I think that's a very good like list, a digestible
list for people to watch. Yeah, if you're looking for some
January watches, you know. No money.
Yeah, this is a great, great place to start.
But let's see if we can find another camp classic today.
Do you want to introduce the next segment?
Welcome to our next segment and a new segment for 2026.
It is the suggestion sack. That's why we have a big old
sack full of all of your requests that you keep on D Ming
us. It's a sack full of things like
spice world, mainly spice world, spice world and once a month
we're going to be emptying the sack.
Having a good rummage around in the.
Sack draining the sack and really sort of just like working
the sack until there's nothing left in it to reveal one of your
picks That's right you will finally get to decide what we
talk about on the podcast and so is it the time to.
Yeah, it's time to drain the sack.
Which will mean there needs to be sound effects like that, OK?
I'm just going to. I'm just.
Going to it's my first time entering the sack.
My sack, anyway. Yeah, don't really enter a sack,
but sure, let's go with it. So I'm going to be gentle, just
the one finger at the moment, OK, Are you ready?
The first suggestion sack pig is notes on a scandal.
Oh, Michael, I'm happy with that.
Me too. I don't.
I'm not sure I've seen it all the way through.
I've heard lots of batshit crazy about DO.
You want to fuck me, Barbara? Right.
I mean it's. You want to roll around on the
floor like lovers? OK, clearly we've got a fan in
the room. Oh great, lovely.
So yes. So please message in with more
of your options and we will be putting them all in the
suggestion suggestion sack until the sack is overflowing.
I'm just going to say Woke Alert though.
That movie contains a lot of child sexual abuse.
OK. But it's kind of camp.
Yeah, sure. Love it.
Great woo. Hoo, OK, so I guess we're maybe
we're covering that next or or near to next and also baby.
Name suggestion Sack. I'm like, oh.
We'll workshop it but. We've got to stick with it.
Now it's like it's Brandy. Baby.
Before we go any further though, what makes a camp classic?
Well, a camp classic is something that unlocks queer
joys, in the words of the icon herself.
I want to get a wedding. It needs to be stupid.
We want something with an ongoing legacy and something
that informs queer pop culture. And ultimately it should be anti
mainstream with underdog plot vibes that's been reclaimed by
the big old benders. And today we are covering 1999's
Drop Dead Gorgeous. I'm so excited.
Yeah, tell me what is. I mean, I'll let you just, I'll
let you just go on. Tell me about this movie.
Why is this movie important to you?
Well, there's quite a few reasons.
I have a tattoo of Denise Richards on my arm, so who knows
how I'm going to feel about the movie.
I was just doing OK, crazy kooky, you know, just went into
the parlour and I looked in the book and then I was like, wow,
it just landed on Drop Dead Gorgeous.
OK, I'll get a tattoo of her. No, I was thinking about this
and I actually, this film links to like my first ever sexual
interaction. Oh yeah.
And I was like, oh, that's the memory.
Oh yeah, because you got railed by that exploding swan.
That's how you lost your virginity to a swan.
No, but I was. I was actually 15 years old.
Don't worry, we're not going. Notes on the scandal.
You're not. Young.
I went to see it in like a cinema in Brighton that was like
a bit out of the way. It was kind of, it's Brighton
Marina. And near there's, there's like a
notorious cruising ground called the Bushes, which is by the
nudist beach. And I remember going to see this
movie with like some friends and like, you have to get like this
little train from the nudist beach to go back into Brighton.
And like, so that's what we did to get there.
And they were like, oh, come on, let's go.
And then I was like, Oh, no, I'm, I want to walk.
And I didn't want to walk. I wanted to explore the, the
cruising ground. So I watched the film, loved it,
and then went into this like the bushes and was just like stood
there and I just, it was the first time I'd been like
cruised. Molly, you in danger, girl?
It was hot, but because I was sweating and like because I was
15, I didn't know what I was doing.
So I just stood there like like a very thick like weirdo.
And I remember this guy with a bike.
He walked past me with his bike and then like rubbed the bike
handle across my Dick and I just was like, I don't know what I'm
doing. And that was it.
I didn't do anything you. Didn't do anything.
No, I just stood there and then she was just like, is this guy?
Is getting a handlebar pressed against your penis.
It's my fan. Sexually smooth.
Am I saying now? Oh, and that explains why you
can't bike anymore. Because yeah.
I'm bikes. Yeah, you get too hard.
Get wildly hard in ejaculate. Yeah, yeah.
It's not anatomy. Like, wow, that's, that's really
funny. Also quite brave.
I wouldn't have been that brave at 15.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know whether it was just
watching the movie kind of got me feeling away, which would be
weird, but. Yes, it would.
All those teen girls. Yeah, it's yeah.
So it's just, it has nothing to do with my love for the film,
but. So you saw this in cinema?
Yeah. Cute, what about you?
I don't think I saw it until much later.
I love it though, I've seen it many times.
Great movie. Yeah, it like genuinely sort of
transformed my life lots of ways.
I just, I don't know, I just think like, I mean, I don't want
to get to the end of the podcast at the beginning, but like it's
just it unlocked like a lot of like kind of the way I kind of
see the world humor wise. Like it's, I think this film is
like very, very my humor. I can see that, Yeah.
I feel almost a little nervous talking about this movie today.
Because I know it's good. No, it's.
Not that it's just, yeah, I know this is your like one of your
tops. I think it's my favorite film.
But listen, I'm up for an intellectual debate.
Maybe we'll, yeah, maybe we'll knock it down a few points
pressure, but I'm sure it'll be fine.
I'm going to smash it. Well, Drop Dead Gorgeous, if
you're not familiar, is a satirical mockumentary black
comedy film directed by Michael Patrick Jan and written by Lona
Williams. It stars.
Does it fucking not star honestly?
And welcome to the podcast, all of these people, because I don't
think most of them are featured, have they?
Correct. Christie Alley.
Tick Ellen Barkin. Tick Kirsten Dunst.
Come on. Denise Richards, Yes.
Brittany Murphy? Yes.
Allison Janney, Yes. Amy Adams in her film debut.
Film debut. Yes, she does so well.
Plus great character actors. Mindy Sterling and MO Gaffney
are in it. From Absolutely Fabulous.
Yep, Yep. There's a cameo from Adam West,
yeah. Just throwing in there, yeah.
It was released on July 23rd, 1999.
Just going to tell you some of the other teen movies that were
released that year, there was something in the water.
Jawbreaker came out that year, but I'm a Cheerleader came out
that year. We've covered both of those on
the podcast. And then like more mainstream
You've got American Pie, 10 Things I Hate About You, She's
All That Never Been Kissed. Drive Me Crazy and The Virgin
Suicides. God, there's a lot.
Uh huh. Crazy, yeah.
Yeah, and what is interesting, I didn't know jailbreaker in, but
I'm a cheerleader at the same time.
That's really interesting to me because they're very like.
In the same sort of universe. But then at the same time, we've
got these like, really like, basic bitch Yeah films coming
out as well. That's so interesting.
Yeah, it had a $15 million budget, and it ended up taking
$10 million at the box office. Yeah, big flop.
It was also a big critical flop. Yeah, I saw some of the Yeah,
graceless. Yeah, it ended up.
Currently it's got 47% on Rotten Tomatoes, but I think that is
because of many 20th anniversary retrospectives which have bumped
the score back up. It's got 28% on Metacritic,
which is like the a more weighted score.
Basically. It got really bad reviews at the
time. People thought it was unfunny
that it it didn't do what it was trying to do.
It was like trying too hard and then it was basically forgotten,
wasn't it? Yeah.
It was unavailable to stream for like 20 years.
You couldn't. It was out of print.
You couldn't buy it on DVD or anything.
But it was kind of kept alive by a generation of queer people,
I'd say. Totally.
But I don't think it's even, it's never really like gone
super, you know, super big cult movie.
You don't think so? No.
I think it's still kind of a bit underground.
Yeah. No, I think definitely because.
Of what you said, a lot of it because there's been like, no, I
know it's on streamers now and I know they've had like
anniversary editions, but they've not really it's never
really had that like adoring treatment.
Yeah, as a A. Bit like Jawbreaker as well, I'd
say. Yeah, it's still a little
hidden. It's not like a clueless or a
heaven. No, it's like, yeah, hidden way.
But yeah, it was it did get kind of this 20th anniversary
reconsideration. And Adam White in the
Independent said Droplet Gorgeous was made for a
generation of freaks and outsiders whose ambitions,
oddities, queerness and poverty were otherwise ignored by
anything similarly mainstream or funny.
I think that's. So true, I think.
I've been enjoying Saint Paul pork products for years.
I grew up right next to these stockyards.
The plot of this one's kind of tricky to do, so I wondered if
maybe I'll just do, like, the broadest strokes.
Yeah. And then maybe we go in
character by character. It's one of those films there's
there's so much going on. Yeah, like Ram it with like, I
think it's 'cause it's a mockumentary, isn't it?
But there's it's not just like a very well, there is a simple
plot, but like within that there's just like multiple
plots, loads of gags. Loads totally really it's a lot.
It's either like you go in super granular because it's very dense
or you talk about like the high level plot.
So I. Mean also it's long as well.
It's a very long movie and I think it like it's it could it
ends about 3 times. Yes, it does.
So we are in Mount Rose,
Minnesota, Minnesota, Minnesota. Oh boy.
I should start this by saying I don't know if you know this, but
I lived in a small town, like very small town in Nova Scotia,
Canada from like the age of 6 to 11.
Like we were on a farm. We had chickens.
The town was called Gore. Wow.
GORE. Gore.
That's sensational. Awful, awful.
And like it was a trailer park town.
Like it was, it was this town. So watching this again, I was
like, Oh yeah, I know these people.
Like there were a lot of Bible thumpers, a lot of casual
racism. I was very lucky to get out and
move back to the city when we did.
Wow. Because I would have been like
Matthew Shepard did. Yeah, shit.
Yeah, but anyway, I, I see these people.
I'm like, Oh yeah, you see, I know you.
I know you. So we're in Mount Rose,
Minnesota. And I know we, I know God, this
is going to be really hard for me, isn't it?
I don't, we're meant to be doing broad strokes.
And now I'm like shot by shot analysis, but can we just talk
about the opening sequence and how fucking gorgeous and like
90s MTV music video that looks? The Adam West.
Like metallic curtains. So the amount of times in like
numerous projects I've done outside of drag, like TV work
and stuff where I've needed to like reference things, the
amount of times I go to this as a reference because it is
fucking stunning. So we've got these like flowing
like metallic looking curtains. Yeah, it's almost, almost like
helium balloons, Like there's, there's something like, yeah,
the the the Sheen on them is amazing.
I feel like you've attempted to recreate this vibe with plastic
sheets, and we've never quite got that.
But yeah, so we've got these like these fucking gorgeous
parachute curtains. Then we've got these kind of
silhouetted like dark menacing beauty Queens, haven't we, that
are like dimly lit, but you see like their teeth smile and light
up and, and it's kind of like this Dun, Dun, Dun, Dun, Dun Dun
Dun. Dun Sarah Lee.
No, Sarah. Oh, Sarah Lee.
That's a gateau, Sarah. Rose knows Sarah.
Rose knows you're a teenage girl.
And it's just so cool. And then it's like, and then you
see Adam West and they're there with these like fucking cheap
little flags, smiling and grinning.
And she definitely knows that you are ready for the ultimate
in teen glamour. Like from the get go, you're
like, you know that this isn't a regular teen movie.
There's something off about it already.
The way it's like you might find some celebrities and they will
point to get him and it's just from the get go is so unhinged
and weird. And then the bit where it's like
in such places like. Mount Rose, Minnesota Thousands
of 17 year old girls like yourselves compete around the
country in places like beautiful Mount Rose, Minnesota.
And then the way it just cuts off into the time of their lives
and then your days of our lives, our lives.
So you've got, yeah, there's sat there and you're just for an
opening scene of a film. It still tickles me.
It's so good. Yeah, you've you quickly find
out that Iris has taped over the rest of the audition pack tape
and she's covered it up with her soaps and Kirstie Alley's pissed
off. And she's like, well, the rest
of the movie goes on to talk about the skills you're going to
need in this pageant. It's it's so good.
But yeah, we are. Sorry, broad stroke.
No, I just had the opening scene I had to talk about.
Yeah, and we're with a camera crew who are filming a
documentary about the Sarah Rose Cosmetics Miss American Teen
Princess beauty pageant. Also, we're in such a fun world
already, aren't we? The world of beauty pageants.
And I feel like there hasn't been many.
Comedies about beauty pageants and it feels like such a rich
area to go to. Apparently there's a 1978 movie
called Smile, which this movie was unfavorably compared to when
it came out, right? So I'm interested to see it.
But. And then, yeah, then there's
Miss Congeniality, which I think is.
Yeah, it's not, not for me. The two main competitors in the
beauty pageant, I'd say, are Amber Atkins.
Or, as I'd like to say, Amber Atkins.
Amber Atkins. She's a plucky, optimistic girl
who wants to get out of Mount Rose and be a reporter like her
hero, Diane Sawyer. And then there's Becky Lehman.
Rebecca and Lehman, 28 year old Denise Richard playing a
teenager. Playing a 17 year old again,
She's just off the back of wild things.
She's like, you know what? There's a couple of years left
in this high school girl. I mean, this, this fucking
performance, like, we know she's a terrible actress, don't we?
She's in general Denise Richards is not known.
Yeah, it's funny, but I think she does a great job here.
Oh. No, but she's like, this role is
hers. This is like, this is like Naomi
Malone level for me, right? A performance.
But it's not right. But Nomi's going too hard.
Denise is going exactly right. Oh, yeah, but it's it's still
terrible. But do you?
Think it's terrible? Yeah, a bit where she's having
the fight with Amber and she's like, Oh, my Mama says.
You're right, you're right. Actually, you're right.
When she's just like, I think left on her own doing like broad
comedy, I think she's very good. Oh, I think she's incredible.
I've got a tattoo of her on my arm.
I think she's incredible. She's like the hot Christian
bitch. And yeah, she's destined to rule
Mount Rose the way her mother does.
In the run up to the pageant in Mount Rose, Amber survives a
couple of attempts on her life while other contestants die
mysteriously or are injured. We'll come back to all those
other contestants eventually. Becky wins the pageant because
it's rigged and at the parade in her honor, what happens?
She's forced to go on a giant swan float and she gets burned
alive. Yeah.
And then we see her mother completely fall down, have a
like a breakdown and admit that she killed everyone.
Yeah. The swan ain't my baby.
So that means that Amber gets to go to state.
She gets to go to the state finals for the beauty pageant,
and at state she realizes she's hopelessly out of her depth and
she's considering dropping out. But everyone else gets food
poisoning due to shellfish. Does it?
Cue the big vomit scene. And somehow Amber is named the
winner of that pageant, too. So she gets to go to nationals.
And she arrives at Nationals as Miss Minnesota and Sarah Rose
Cosmetics has unfortunately been seized by the IRS.
It's been shut down. It's bankrupt, it's shuttered.
And the girls go wild. They smash it up.
They knock down that really weighty statue that literally
just is a bit of cardboard that slops down.
But yeah, they trashed the joint and that's Amber's dreams
crushed and tell. Because there's another bit.
Yeah, credits roll and then in the mid credits scene we see
what's happened. Gladys has has left prison and
now there's a mass gun shooting led by Gladys and she shoots a
news reporter and Amber steps in and suddenly is a new host of a
new show and that's what she. Sees.
Yeah, she sees her opportunity. That reporter is hit, and
Amber's like the news must go on.
She snatches the mic off the bloody ground and carries on the
reporting. And then we see her in the news
studio and it's got the same treatment as the opening, except
she's in like, and it's just that's showbiz.
That's showbiz. Yeah.
So yeah, it's some good tips if you want to like, break into
like news broadcasting just, you know.
What is it that Crystal says? You know the best advice I ever
got? You're up there on stage hoping
on a spot. If someone gets in your way,
step on them. If you're the only one left
standing there, they hire you. So that's like the broad plot.
I don't know how to, I don't know where, where to talk.
Let's talk about the world. Yeah, OK, the world.
Let's start there, yeah. So this town is.
But. Yeah, yeah.
It is a real like examination of poverty in America.
It's so dark. It's so fucking dark.
It's so dark. Every, every reference is you
get like a real snapshot of so many different types of people.
So yeah, like the kind of inhabitants here, you know,
you've got a paedophile who is also going to be one of the
judges on the talent show. You've got that like a gambling
former ballet Clarice who is just like candy clothes.
Sweet Jesus, if I was a gambling lady.
It's just everywhere. You've got the headmistress,
there's just so you've got the pork products.
Oh my God, the pork. Former beauty pageant person.
It's like. I just love Saint Paul pork
products. In fact, I love them so much I
work here now. Oh.
That cutaway that is, I think, my favorite bit of the movie,
just that infomercial that's inserted for no reason, but it's
just so dark, so good. She's, she's at one point
wearing like a really bloody spattered apron.
Oh, incredible. But I think, I think something I
love about the world in general is that we are like following
this. Like to the people who are part
of this world, this beauty pageant is like real high stakes
for them. But it is just like, as you
said, it's just such like a shitty small town that actually
everything's just so shitty, but everything's played for these
huge states. It's just a crappy little talent
show. But it's kind of all these
people have, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
I mean, especially for Becky and Gladys, it's like this is their
thing and it's really skewering that girl you knew in high
school who peaked at prom when she got made prom queen.
Like that is all she's got and it's going to be downhill from
there. And then there's this amazing
other cast of all the other contestants who are such unique
characters in their own right and like, they really spend some
time, like giving each of them a personality, like a trait.
It's really, really fab that way.
And I think it's easy to be like, so like impressed by the
cast looking back on it now, just because so many of them
have had such big careers. But like, a lot of them at the
time weren't known for stuff. But there there's so much talent
on screen, like even like the sub roles, like you just said,
like, because you know, like someone like Brittany Murphy is
a small character in it, but she's incredible in it.
And like, you're just like, wow, you're a fucking superstar
whenever she's on screen. And that's what's so interesting
about the right thing, is that it's just all of these actors
get to really shine. Yeah, yeah, it's so true.
Like, it's not that anyone has a huge amount of screen time, but
it's like punchy, punchy, punchy, punchy.
Who would you have been? Oh, I mean Amy Adams looks like
she's having a lot of fun as the, like, slutty girl.
Was that you though? No, it wasn't.
Oh, wait. Who would?
Who was I? Oh, my God.
Yeah, this. I was the girl who liked dogs.
So yeah, talk to us about. Her dad.
What is her storyline? She just really likes dogs.
Yeah, she just got, she had a big German.
She's obsessed with German shepherds.
She got bit. She.
Got bit they repaired her stomach with the skin from her
butt. Yeah, and then she's got a
smaller dog now, yeah. That's that's her character.
She's just a bit confused. You know, she, she doesn't quite
get the brief, the pageant runway, does she?
She's got like that big ball of yarn, the world's biggest ball
of yarn on her. Is she the one who falls on the
stepladder and has to ice her Fanny?
Yeah. They remade my belly with skin
from my butt and somewhere. I guess I'd be somewhere between
her and the dramatic. Yeah, the theater kids I.
I was the theatre kid, as much as I would love to be like, oh,
I'm Rebecca Van Lehman or no, I was Soylent Green.
Yeah, serious. Like, oh, it's my dramatic
monologue now. And I had this thing at school
where I, like, I could make myself cry acting.
So I would just basically shoehorn it into every single,
like, scene. I would do like, if ever there
was this acting scene that required a little bit of drama,
I would like really push myself to cry and make it a thing.
Wow. Because I took it so seriously.
And were people like incredible? Basically because there's no one
else really did. There was only like 5 people in
my very small school that wanted to act.
So it's like I basically just got to do what I wanted to do
and, and everyone would just be like, you're sensational, go to
London, you need to go to London.
And I was like, yeah, I do, yeah I do.
And then I went to London and I was like, oh I'm really shit.
And everyone else is like really experienced, really good.
And it was like you will never be anything.
Boom. Oh, yeah.
So you really had the Amber Atkins?
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, my God, I am Amber. It was totally that.
It was like, I'm going to be Martha Stewart, not Martha
Stewart. Diane Sawyer, I'm going to be
Martha Stewart. Yeah.
But yeah, so I can relate to that story.
Yeah. So who are your favorite
characters? Because it is hard, this is hard
one to talk about just because of the way it's it's obviously
with the mockumentary side of it, Yeah.
Who are you most drawn to character wise?
Yeah, I mean, Denise Richards. I mean, it's partially like the
way her character is written and the plot stuff, but like the
fact that you just, you know, she's constantly murdering
people and she's doing it with this smile and she looks so
gorgeous. I love all the bits where she's,
like, giving cunt cunt, cunt, cunt cunt until she sees the
cameras on her and then she turns on her like showbiz
sparkle. It's so perfect.
Because it's like, so, yeah. So the first death we've got is
Tommy Curry. And she's like the captain of
everything, Isn't she's like a sporty jock.
Yeah. And she's giving dyke vibes, but
I'm not sure if she is. But like, that's her energy.
And we see her set up. She's like proudest that she's
the the leader with the Lutheran.
She's just won the yeah, she's just become the captain of the
Lutheran Gun Club, beating out Becky.
Yeah, Who's the vice captain? And then we see her like riding
a tractor and then out of nowhere.
And it happened so quickly in the film, the tractor just
explodes. And then we see that she's dead.
And it and it it's from the get go.
You're like, oh, OK, this is going to be quite a fucking
weird film. Yeah.
And then we see Becky and Lehman with a gun and it's like, what
did you think about Tammy's death?
And it's like, oh, you know, I didn't really know.
Yeah. And then how long have you been
shooting for? And it's like my mom gave me
this on my 5th 16th birthday. Yeah.
And we've learned that she's like a very good shot very
quickly because she's. Yeah.
Because Jesus loves. Winners.
Yeah, that's why whatever I do, I aim to win.
But. It's like this, this character,
God, we're seeing it now in America more and more.
This kind of like weird MAGA. You're right.
It's that. It's that Lady, the crazy one,
the. The the wife of the guy that got
shot. Well, yeah, her.
She's very Becky Lehman, you're right.
She's got this. Kirk Yeah, Yeah, you're right.
She is exactly that. No, but there's also this crazy
Latina Trumper who's like constantly firing missiles.
She'll like, she'll like take a grenade launcher to like woke
shit and. I mean, that's just like the
rules of feminism that is. That's the thing with Becky and
Lehman though, is that it's really clever because she's all
all of these awful things. But like, there's no attempt to
like disguise the fact she is nuts.
Do you know what I mean? And like this weird like double
edged personality disorder she's got.
Yeah, Becky. Also, Kirsten Dunst's character
gets hit on by this shoot jock guy who has just rejected Becky
and then the next thing we know he's a dead in the morgue shot
between the eyes. And then we cut to Denise
Richards again. Like cleaning her gun.
The other thing I love about Denise Richards in this film is
I actually we've we've spoken about a few people in in like
queer cinema that have influenced your drag and your
performance style. So Michelle Pfeiffer is
Catwoman, Poison Ivy? Denise Richards performing?
You're just too good to be true. I don't think I've ever seen my
drag more encapsulated into a performance.
You're so right. So Denise Richards Can't Sing,
but is that going to stop her? No, it fucking isn't.
She is going to be there in her little poodle, a line, pink
skirt and yeah, I'm just going to go.
I just want to perform it. You're just too.
Good. To be true.
And then you've got like people in the audience like, oh shit,
can't take my eyes off of you. You feel like heaven to touch.
I want to hold you. I know you're uncomfortable, but
I'm just carrying on so much. At long last, love has arrived
and I thank God I'm alive. You're just too good to be true.
Can't take my eyes off of you, Jesus.
Jesus stuffed. Jesus wheeled out on a cross.
Yeah, stuffy Jesus. And then there's like little
hokey. He's velcroed to the cross.
It's on wheels. And then she takes his arms and
wraps around it. And then I love the shot when
she leaves the stage and she's. Carried across the cross with
that big smile on her face. Oh, it's incredible.
I. Have done that performance.
Have you? I was just going to say.
With the cross, someone made me across with and I did that
thing. Wow, when?
That was like early, I did it with some people called Amy
Grimehouse. They used to do screening
events. And yeah, they made me the cross
for it. And it was just affection so
far. But I see my I see my dragon
Denise. Totally.
Deluded. Yeah.
Like dark. Yeah, you.
I mean, you're obviously doing it with a self-awareness that
she does not have, but yeah, she's the perfect blueprint.
But then I also feel like I do a lot of stuff without the
self-awareness that it should have.
Yeah, she's very, Yeah. She's just that perfect
representation of like American confidence, unearned confidence.
And I think that's very, Yeah, your drag like and comfort.
No, no, I don't. I'm mocking that.
Yeah, mocking that. Yeah, that is.
That's your whole thing. Yeah, What else does she do
there in this film that I love as well?
Like, she just plays it at the right level.
Yeah. She's not hysterical.
She's not. She's just bored, isn't she?
Like, you get the impression that she doesn't really want to
do all of this stuff, but like, her mum's just making her and
she just probably just wants to look hot, doesn't she?
Yeah. Wait, let's let's go to Kirsten
Dunst. OK.
Yeah. So Amber Atkins, she's the like,
she's the sweet girl. I what I love about Amber Atkins
is that you think that you're getting the story of the
American Dream with her. And like, if you just work hard
and commit and you're nice, then good things will happen to you.
And actually that is not Amber's story at all.
And this movie just skewers that idea so hard.
And it's like, actually, no, fuck that.
If you're poor, like your options are very limited and the
only way you're going to get ahead is if you get an
absolutely fucking lucky break, because otherwise you're.
Stuck. You're stuck exactly where you
are. Life is not fair.
The rich people stay rich and they'll cheat their way to the
top and. Which is?
And that's the representation of the Lehman family, Yeah.
And it's like everybody's just kind of accepted the way it goes
with them. Yes, yeah.
You know, the dad owns the big furniture shop, which is a RIP
off place anyway, but he sponsors the beauty competition.
Gladys is the director of it. She's always won.
And he's already hired all of the judges.
Yeah, like, basically like he's hired one of the judges to paint
his furniture store. There's some corruption.
The one of the other judges is his, is his assistant.
That's the writer of the movie, by the way.
Yeah, I know. It's crazy, isn't it?
Yeah. Yeah, so it's like all so sewn
up she Amber's got no chance but.
Yeah, this idea of like everything that's about the
American Dream and like a location that would be about the
American Dream beauty pageants, which is about the American
Dream, And then they're just the reality of like, well, that's
all bullshit, really. It's all bullshit and like the
fact that like this, the third runner up prize is a $50
scholarship, it's like, oh that is so painful and true.
And again, something I think I could relate to just as like a
young team with this film is like the want to get away and to
succeed and do well and like in something creative but actually
not being the most talented. Like, Amber Atkins can tap
dance. Yeah.
And we see her dancing. And again, like in films like
Step Up or something, that level of dancing would be like, wow,
who's the new hot blonde girl in our dance class?
And she'd but she's kind of just fine.
Good enough, Yeah. Good enough, Yeah.
And like, I love that honesty in the talent show when we see it
is like, you see her performing when she gets Brittany Murphy's
costume. Yeah, and it's fine, but it's
not. She's better than the other
people. Yes, But again, you're not like,
superstar talent. It's a very like normalized
level. Yeah.
And I sort of like that honesty about it.
Yeah. And in a more mainstream, yeah,
in a more mainstream teen film, she would just go on to win
through sheer determination. You'd get a montage of her
makeover. You know, you'd have all of
these things. And just like, oh, she's earned
this. But like, that isn't actually
how life works. And it's not.
Life is not fair. And unless you're, like, rich or
lucky, you're probably not going to get the opportunities that
you think you deserve. Yeah.
Life's a bitch now, so am I. And I just think that's so rare
to see in a movie. And it's so like, it's like a
gut punch, but like it's very cathartic to see also because
you know it's true. And they've done it really well
in sort of, you know, the blonde blue eyed girl as well.
Yeah, giving her that. Yeah.
She does sort of fall into a lot of the tropes of that sort of
bright eyed, bushy tailed, Yeah. But yeah, so seeing her go
through it in a harder way and like, I think I'm sure we'll
talk about her character a bit more, but I think the
relationship she has with her mum is actually really
heartfelt. And again, it's dark.
Everything about this film is dark and fucked up.
There's there's like just when you think you're getting into
like a kind of a nice moment, there's something that happens
that's quite off. But I think underneath it all,
there's actually just a very like real bond between them and
yeah. And again, like a nice contrast
to relate the relationship that Gladys has with Becky, because
although she says it's because she wanted everything for her
daughter, she wanted to win, There's not there's not a real
sincerity between them. No, Whereas actually with Amber
and her mom, again, her mom is having to just be like, we live
in a trailer park, you know, real stuff going on.
I love the line from Amber. Boys get out of Mount Rose all
the time. Hockey scholarships.
Prison. I'm like the fact she works in
like a more doing makeup and that's I'm lucky I get somewhere
I can tap, practice my tap dances.
And yeah, she's doing that woman's makeup and the guy the,
the family have like a problem with the way she's on the
makeup. She's like, oh, I just thought
you maybe wouldn't want your mother to look like a cheap
whore. And then it's like, well, this
is the cheap all they want to see.
It's like, perfect, yeah. So good and her just like
reluctantly putting like a bright red lipstick on this old
lady. It's so great.
And then the guy that's the love interest has been shot straight
away and then she's like having to cover, cover up bullet holes
on the head. And, you know, she's like, oh,
you know, part and parcel of the job.
You just have to get used to it. But again, it's like, it's like
it's real life, but heightened and twisted and warped.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Oh, God, It really does not pull any punches.
This movie, it's so dark. Yeah.
What about her, her mom and Loretta?
Because it's so female heavy, the cast like you actually have
like all of these like great double acts, but not there's not
just one. There's like multiple strong and
then different combos of these characters like women together
that like it's like, you know, we've we've talked about first
wives club and like their dynamic is fab.
But like, for me, like seeing Ellen Barkin and Allison Janney
together in the way that they RIP off of each other, seeing
Kirstie Alice and the lady that plays Iris Harris.
Yes, and again, Mindy Sterling. Yeah.
And again, it's just all of these like, and I just in one
movie to see all of that is so because like Ellen, Ellen Barkin
is so great as her mother. Yeah.
Yeah, she's so fab. Yeah, I mean, she sends the
movie high on painkillers, basically with a beer can fuse
to her hand. But yeah, there's like, again,
in a very heightened wart way, it shows sort of like poor
people and like kind of their dynamics with in within the
family because like you said, she does, she does care about
Amber, but she herself is like this like fucked up cliche of
what training park trash is. But like, you know, she's still
supporting her, still encouraging her, like she still
believes that she can become something can become and like
without any knowledge of that. And again, like in a really kind
of weird personal way, she kind of reminds me of my mom.
Right. Because my mom has always like
so blindly believed that I could do the things I wanted to do but
without any context of the situation.
So if I was like, I want to be ATV presenter or something, my
mom would be like, yeah, and knowing nothing about that, just
kind of believing and wanting to believe for your child.
And I just, but kind of not naively, yeah.
And so I see a lot of my mum in Ellen barking, going to the
talent show and being like, you're the best thing ever.
You're the just believing in that, yeah.
And giving great advice like if they ask you to take your top
off, get the money first. Like realistic advice.
Yeah, she's fabulous. And then Loretta, played by
Allison Janney, I mean that role, that performance, this
character, 1 liners, the one liners.
She's like a slutty drunk who's like real, down to earth, salt
of the earth kinda. She's like the second mum to
Amber. Yeah, and she again, like, I
really see like that like relationship and it's really
beautiful. And again, it's in the fucked up
dressing, but you know, she's she knows that the school would
like Gladys and she knows what the real thing.
And because she sort of says it's a camera and like Ellen
Barkins, like don't say that, don't say that.
And it's like, well, it's true. Yeah, it's there for her.
And yeah, really fun. I love the way she's like always
flirting with the crew and wants to fuck them as well.
It's like. You guys want to be here?
Can one of your boys can be a ride home?
Don't fall far, She lives. 2 trailers.
Down. So be real easy.
Go on home, Loretta. And oh, you're cute.
Yeah. She as she gets with that waiter
and then on camera, she's like, I got some.
They're getting so like, likable.
She's so likable. I think as well, like with when
Amber wins through the death of Becky Lehman, they had that
really nice scene as well where she's just kind of like telling
her, well, like you've just got to make the most of this and and
go with it. And again, that's like, it's
just like real life, isn't it? Yeah, Allison, Jenny's character
is almost like the she's the moral of the movie, which is
like, life isn't fair. So like, if you get an
opportunity, fucking take it. Yeah.
And she's like the realist. She's actually the one who knows
what's going on. Yeah.
Who else?
What about the other contestants?
Yeah. Brittany Murphy.
What's this to say about Brittany Murphy?
Yeah, she's just, she's just looks like she's having so much
fun. She was quite a big deal at this
point, too. Yeah, it's quite a small role
for her. Yeah, she's just, she just loves
her gay brother. I know, but again, like to have
that kind of queer representation and it's like and
also like an interesting thing. Like the parents are obsessed
with their like drag performing son that does Liza, that does
Barbara. They haven't clocked that he's
gay, but they're like, why can't you be more like Peter?
Why can't you be more like and she is obsessed with it as well.
And then the payoff is her like Peter's gay, he's gay.
But again, I just think it's such like a it fits into the but
I'm a cheerleader and fits into the the Heathers of it all in
the Jawbreaker. But like, normally these films,
like it's just, you know, commonplace for someone to just
be like, you're a fag or something.
Yeah. There isn't like any gay jokes.
No. And you, you, you're kind of
waiting for like, there to be like a trans person is a
punchline or gay person as a punchline in this movie.
And it just doesn't happen. No.
It's so refreshing. I mean, there are other.
There are, obviously, yeah. We can, we can talk about that.
But yeah, from that perspective anyway, it's almost like it
makes me think that the writer probably isn't gay, because I
think if she were, she'd make lesbian jokes.
Right. OK, You know what I mean?
Because, like, yeah. Because she seems she's happy to
skew her every she. So a bit of context about her.
So she was born and raised in. ROSEMOUNT, MN.
Yeah, so and, and went through the beauty pageant cycle.
So from what I've read in interviews with her, this this
is actually very much like a version of her upbringing in her
life, which again, I really like because I feel like this kind of
topic could easily be just been taken by anybody and just like,
you know, prestige and parodied and stuff.
But I think it's interesting that she's got like lived
experience and like, I don't know a lot of the references,
but like the food that's referenced in the film and
stuff, it's all kind of authentic, that location.
No, she totally gets it. She's skewering it so well
because she's like, lived it. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
You know, the fact that she's plays the silent judge, she was
told by producers because she wanted another role, She was
told that she was too old to be like a contestant and because of
the fact that she doesn't speak means that she was only paid a
supporting that role and wasn't credited properly as an actor.
I think they made her do that role because it would save them
the most money because they that way they didn't have to pay a
featured extra because she's gotten she's got no line.
Even though she's in it. She's in it loads, she's a great
job. Yeah, she's.
Like such a good character. Yeah, but yeah, I think Brittany
Murphy is Brittany Murphy in it. Like she's just so likable on
screen, so like Manic as well, but she's like she's one of the
like less explored characters and she she's more there as like
a mechanism to like support. Yeah.
But yeah, I think she's great in it.
Yeah, and how about Amy Adams? Yeah.
Doing a great job. Muskies.
She looks so hot. So hot and just like, yeah, it's
like great that this is her first role and she's.
I think she's got like really great memories of working on it,
hasn't she as well? And just.
But again, I just love how they take that trope of, you know, in
lots of movies, she'd be like a main character.
Yeah. And actually, she's just like a
sideline. Yeah.
And again, like so many of those trophy characters, like, you
know, they are obsessed about their boyfriend, like their teen
years in these movies are all based around like whether the
guy fancies them or not, which we don't see with Amber because
she's kind of like accepted that like that guy, oh, he's been
killed, but that's not part of her story.
That's not her journey to get out of here.
There's no competition really. Like Becky kills him.
That kills him, but only because she doesn't want Amber to have
is you don't get a real sense that she's into him.
But other than that, So like side characters obsessed by this
guy and it is just like wrecking her life and we're seeing that
which we don't see if she would be a featured character, we'd be
like, we want her to get the guy.
We need that happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so true.
It's also like she's a slut, but it's kind of non judgmental.
It's like, it's like she looks like she's having a great time.
Yeah, totally. You know.
And it's like, but the other thing it does really well is
it's just like highlights how toxic he is because obviously he
just wants her to be the winner and like, and actually he's not
impressed with her. Like, and again, it's like a
very dark way of portraying that side of things.
Totally. I think all of the contestants,
they're all like so earnest in their own way, and they're so
unique and they've got their like special interests, but the
movie is laughing at them. But it's kind of also not like
it's kind of really supportive of all of them too.
It's just like, look at these weird girls.
Aren't they having a good time? And I love that about it.
It's not like doesn't feel like it's making fun of women.
No, I don't think it's. I mean, you know what I mean.
Yeah, it's not. It's not like slut shaming.
It's not like doing bimbo stuff, really.
It's like, I mean, it does do all of that, but it's.
I saw. Something it's not mean.
No, I saw an interview with who who played Iris the the actor
that played Iris. Like Mindy Sterling.
Mindy Sterling, who we know from Austin Powers as well.
It's like a really great comedian.
And I was watching an interview that they were talking about
Drop Dead Gorgeous and they they come from like a big improv
comedy. Background from the groundlings
I think. Yeah, and they were talking a
lot about because obviously like people have sort of some critics
and people watching back now have said that the films mean.
And she doesn't think it's mean because she she comes from like
a comedy. Her comedy take on it is that
all of these things should be up for grabs.
And she loves dark comedy and she wants to kind of subvert and
make it weird and stuff. But she said she thinks it works
because everyone's playing it for real.
So they're not kind of going oh, and pointing and laughing.
They're believing in those characters, as ridiculous as the
situations are. And I think that comes across
because it's like, as I said, I think this just like with most
of the characters, there's a real heart beneath.
Yes, the tropes of it. Yeah.
And yeah, I think it's it's just an interesting.
You don't see a lot of that on these kind of teen films.
Yeah, exactly. It's a teen film, Yeah.
And it's doing this. Yeah, yeah, they the the movie
knows who the villains are and that is the like racist, gun
toting Republican Christian Lehman family.
Because did you hear that? Apparently the extras who were
locals and a lot of them walked out during the you're just too
good from Jesus scene because they were so offended by how it
was mocking religion. And they would, you know, I
think it must have just been one of those things, you know, we we
need some film extras on this. Here's the shooting day.
Here's the money rock up. They hadn't read the script.
They didn't know. So she's performing it and
people just like left. And I just think that is
spectacular. That's good.
Yeah, that's what you want, isn't it?
You want those people to like, Yeah.
Well, I guess Speaking of the mean stuff then, like, what
about the more problematic elements?
There's obviously a character with like, an intellectual
disability, which it's not. I'd say that's like the lowest
part of the movie. That's the part that's the
hardest to watch. They use the R word a lot,
which, OK, I can kind of forgive that because it's from the 90s.
And they're kind of showing. They're kind of deliberately
trying to show that these people are not clued up about this.
Yeah. But he is just kind of a
punching bag, this character. Yeah, I agree.
It's, it's, it's the kind of the weakest part.
I'm not really kind of sure what it's saying.
I know, I know. It is like a bigger commentary
and like at the end he kind of wins, doesn't.
He does win. But it's still in a very but I
don't know that that that section to me is just and also
it's the male characters and I guess it's like didn't really
need to see them. I don't really know giving.
Yeah, it's, it's basically, it's supposed to be like comedic
window dressing, isn't it? It's just like, oh, now there's
this like doofus doing funny things in the background of a of
a shot, but it just feels very, that feels like the most punched
down moment in that. And yeah, when you think about
like how amazing, you know, the representation of say, of people
with drought Down syndrome has become in TV and film, like
there's been so much, so much progress made on that.
And it's like, oh, you compare and contrast that.
Yeah. Oh, hard.
Yeah. But that, I guess that's just
one of the things when you're, it's like a comedy that's like,
nearly how old is it now? 13, nearly 30 years old?
Yeah. Like 26 years.
Yeah. And then it's just unfortunate
that. Yeah.
Well, it's not unfortunate because things have moved on,
but it's just. Yeah, it's just I guess I'm
trying to sort of remember. And I think I probably would
have laughed at that as a teenager.
Yeah. Which is obviously not now.
And now I genuinely don't find it funny.
Like it's yeah, but. Yeah, I used the R word when I
was a kid. Yeah, of course.
I mean Black Eyed Peas, Yeah, that song, Let's get it started
was that was it was just sort of thrown around in a very
different context. But yeah, it's just, it's a
shame because it is just a bit naff, that part.
Yeah. And then let's talk about.
Yeah, let's talk about the former winner who's on the
Anorexia Award. I mean that I find that one's
also like on the edge for me of of watchable.
How do you feel about it? Yeah, I, I actually, I think
it's quite interesting. I don't find it as I feel like
they're making more of a point with this and it's like
obviously like to make that point.
You are kind of what you are taking the piss out of people
with anorexia. Like so obviously there's
there's issues with it, but I think we're so sort of in like
American culture, like beauty standards, what people are doing
for that. And the fact is this character
is like she's been living on like hardly any calories.
She's been running X amount of miles everyday altered.
Get this big dream, which we know isn't a big dream.
I just think, I just think that kind of dark take on it is quite
delicious and I think it's fucked up, but it's kind of
just, I think it's just, and then like when she's being
pushed around for her performance and she can barely
stand, but she still wants to perform with the back, I still
find it quite funny. It's, yeah.
I felt very conflicted about it. Yeah.
I can understand why you might watch that and find it very,
very offensive. Yeah.
I was wondering, I was like, if she had cancer, would it be
better? And I don't know like.
Why would that be better? Exactly why would it be better?
But there was something about. Interesting.
There's just something that I have like a visceral response to
it, I think because I've had friends who've suffered with
eating disorders, probably. I guess it's interesting because
it doesn't ever make it seem like it's not like blaming her,
this character. I don't know.
It is more of making a point, as you say, about like the pursuit
of this dream and like how fucked up it is to do that.
I don't know, but I can't even really talk about it effectively
because I find it so. Yeah, but it is.
You're right, it is also funny. Yeah, I think it's really funny.
But then it's like, you know, I think this is just like we're
entering a realm of dark comedy and it's not, you know, the
whole point is labeled dark comedy is there is pushing
buttons and going to places and making fun of things that are
taboo. And, you know, and I think
absolutely, for different reasons, people have different
things that they can kind of find more palatable.
And like, you know, if I had someone close to me that died of
cancer, I know we're getting very serious.
But like. And then I saw that, yeah, you
know, maybe I would be able to like, just laugh at it life, you
know, fuck. But maybe it would just be
really too triggery for me. But yeah, I think it's
interesting. I think I just view, I just
think I'm still, I'm sort of fascinated by societies want to
change and constantly manipulate the way that they look and kind
of chase and we see it more and more, but different ways,
filters, plastic surgery now and people are becoming so grotesque
in it. And I just, I think it's just a
variation of that, what we're seeing.
We don't get to know them as like a real human being.
I think they just represent how fucked up beauty pageants are in
general and I just like. I find it just a really weird,
dark, funny place, but I understand it's not for
everyone. Yeah, it definitely like fired
up my brain and it got me thinking I was like, oh, is this
funny? Am I?
Am I OK to laugh at this? Why?
If I'm not, then why, you know, why is my line here?
What is that? Yeah.
And I think that's, I think that's really interesting too.
Yeah, totally. I do.
I do think we live in like a world where like you can now
just talk. A lot of comedy can be talked
around being inappropriate, punching down.
And I think we can get to a place where it's like you can
kind of talk yourself out of everything being funny.
And I do think, I don't know, it's an interesting one.
Like I doubt they did a lot of research.
I doubt there's there's someone in her life that had it or she
had it and she's reflecting herself, the writer.
Yeah, it's I doubt it comes from that sort of well earned place.
But at the same time, I'm just like, I think the subject matter
with the entire thing is it's a satirical look of America and
all of the kind of nastiness within it.
So I kind of that's how I view it more than.
Yeah. A commentary on that, as in as a
thing. It's the most like edge lordy
humor part of this movie. I'd say.
It's like, what can we get away with?
That that that joke for me is the one that's like the most on
the on that edge. But then don't you think there's
something so like, and I don't think you'd have this in like a
more mainstream straight film, Like, don't you think there's
something so spectacularly surreal and fucked up about her
lip sync? So like, don't cry out loud.
And I, I think that's just kind of fucking.
Yeah, it's kind of. Beautiful.
Yeah, I think it's like she's barely alive, but she's still
lip syncing to be part of this competition in a tiny town.
And it means fuck all. Yeah.
And then there's this, like, kind of like tragic glamour
about it all. I don't know.
I find it is fucking dark and fucking surreal, but I'm kind of
into it. Yeah.
But yeah, I think generally, I think all of the big parts are
just brilliant. I just think like all of the
smaller parts, like when we get to the bigger competition and
you have Terry and Colleen, they are just like, I I want to
watch. I want why is there not ATV
comedy series with just those two like chain smoking,
drinking, like oh Jesus Christ, I'm like so fucking funny.
And that see that sequence is so unnecessary.
It could have just ended with Amber winning at.
The graveyards, yes, it could. The film could have ended there.
But then we had this whole other section and like, also just
seeing the like everyone vomiting and beauty Queens
chundering everywhere. I just think there's something
so fucking surreal and wonderful about that.
It's so great. Yeah.
I was on the fence about this. I was like, is this movie like,
does it work that it's got all these like, additional endings?
I felt like pacing wise, it kind of, it was kind of like, oh, now
what? Oh, now we're here.
Oh, OK. But each of those scenes is kind
of perfect also. So you're like, well, I'm happy
I'm watching this. I think narratively it's not
necessarily working that well, like from a story perspective,
but it is great to watch this happen.
And it's like completely unnecessary.
The bit like where Amber's just staring at that girl's tits
because we had a boob job and it's like, OK, now we're here
because the whole movie is set up as this conflict between
Amber and Becky. And then Becky dies at like,
what, 2/3 of the way through the movie and you're like, OK, now
what are we doing? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. It just feels like it doesn't
know where it's going towards the end.
And then like the whole fact that you get to the competition
and then it's like, oh, they've gone into like liquidation or
whatever. And that feels like a very oh
God, we need to end this. How can we end this film
quickly? But I like, I kind of again,
love all of these like young girls crying and it's all been a
fraud this whole time. I think again, that's like a
beautiful like message of like, this is all bullshit.
It's all fucking. Bullshit American Dreamers a
fucking lie. And it's like seeing like the
way Gladys like completely like falls apart and, you know, she's
trying to kill Amber. And it's like, is this, you
know, awful, awful human being? It's like, I just think, I just
think the messaging of all of that is great.
Like what we're seeing is not real.
And like the people that fall down are the ones falling down.
And yeah, I just think it's like a very, it's still, I watch it
and I still think, God, this is America still.
Yeah, yeah. It's so funny you were.
You mentioned Erica Kirk, because I was thinking, watching
him, like, oh, these people don't really exist, but you're
right, they fucking do. And actually, they exist more
now than they did probably when this movie got made because the
world has gone beyond satire. And Gladys is like in the House
of Representatives now. Gladys is.
Yeah. She's like Marjorie.
Taylor Green, she's got out there.
Yeah, definitely. Like, she, she got power and
actually she's running shit in a real way now.
And people are falling for it in a, in a way that like when I was
a kid watching this movie, I was like, yeah, at least everyone
knows that, you know, you don't fall for this shit.
But no, people have bought. In and people are poor and
people are stuck in situations still and people are aspiring to
bullshit that's just been fed to them.
They're utter crap. That's so upsetting.
Yeah. I mean, it's like it's bleak.
The whole subject matter with the film is really bleak.
But like you said, and then, like, you know, the sort of the
fact that Amber Atkins fulfills her ambition of being a
newscaster all because of the deaths of other people and
arguably, like, Rebecca Van Lehman is a bad person, but she
didn't do the killings. She definitely shot that boy in
the head. I don't believe in the
glorification of murder. Oh, OK.
Well, she killed one. She killed 1 Jock.
OK, the details. Was she deserving of death?
Did she have a bright future ahead of her?
She didn't deserve to die on that swan.
She was going to be a big musical theatre star or a
cabaret artist like me. I do believe in the empowerment
of women. But no.
But like, the fact that Amber Atkins achieves what she needed
to through luck and through bad circumstances of other people is
just like, it's another really cynical way of filming.
It's so simple this. Film and also the fact that, you
know, she's ended up on a local news station, probably like a
Fox News affiliate, peddling like garbage, served by some
billionaire who lives in Australia.
Like she also like her dream was it was a low hanging.
It was a low dream. Yeah, basically, yeah.
Like none of them have really managed to get out of this any
further. But yeah, America welcome.
Real life sucks losers dry. I don't want to fuck.
With the Eagles, you have to learn to fly.
It's just one of those films like I've like, it's so
quotable. There's so many amazing lines in
this, and I feel like we could just go into every single scene.
I could talk for an hour on each, but the.
Jokes are so dense like joke, joke, joke, joke, joke and so
many. Also, the pettiness.
Can we talk about the pettiness of characters like the bit where
Amber's like her trailer park has been set on fire, that
itself and a huge polystyrene ball of clothes has like become
like an asteroid. And as as it was happening and
as her mother was getting flung through the trailer bar, she
managed to grab an old dress and save her like outfit.
Amazing. And then the fact that then
Amber goes to dance in it, and then Gladys Lehman's like, oh,
sweetie, the costumes need to be a week in advance.
I couldn't have you going out in a tiny thing like that.
It wouldn't be. There are children in the
audience. And it's just that kind of, I
just love all of that bitchiness between it.
And then how's it going? This isn't this isn't Nazi
Germany. This isn't a beauty pageant.
This is Nazi Germany. Yeah.
Where do they get this stuff so good?
And the conga dance and them doing their fucking dancing
dance routines to like the actual talent show itself, the
production values of them walking around and like, showing
off their costumes. And Amy Adams like wanking the
statue on her head. What does Denise Richard say
with the faces? Living in a country where you
can take a stupid mountain and put faces on it, faces of great
Americans who made this country what is so great.
That's what makes me proud to be an American.
So good. Yeah.
Her line also. Like if you were a tree, what
tree would you be? Oh, I'd be like a.
Tree with a strong trunk of good Christian values and wide
branches so I can cast shade on disabled children.
Incredible. Yeah, all of that is so good.
It is great, though, that not many men feature in the movie.
Oh my God, yeah. It's just, it's just women being
all kinds of different women and behaving badly and like, yeah,
it's so, it's so great. I mean.
The fact there's no men in it, well then then the men are like
will douchebags. Are all douchebags?
Yeah. Except maybe, like some of the
documentary crew, you get a sense.
They're kind of like, yeah, but I cannot.
I can understand why this film wasn't a commercial hit.
Yeah, it's like, I guess particular kind of humor.
Totally. And I think the studio didn't
know again what to do with it. It's one of those movies that
like they had no idea how to market it.
And they actually apparently they got, they saw the the edit
and they were like, oh. What do you want?
It to be more like clueless. What do you know at the end?
The original ending was that Gladys Lehman just hangs
herself. Right.
Yeah. So the shot in jail is like,
it's another contestant at the beauty pageant who goes on the
killing spree. Yeah.
And then Gladys Lehman is just found hanging.
And they were just like, too dark.
They were like, what the fuck? This is, Yeah.
Which is interesting. And it makes me more interested
in the writer because I think she did.
She was like burned by the Hollywood experience because she
did a second film called Sugar and Spice.
Yeah. And that had so many changes
from and the studios, etcetera, that she ended up changing her
name and just having like a fake credit.
She didn't want to be associated with it.
So yeah. But again, a really interesting
era of these kind of like weird mainstream teen films that are
like trying to do something darker and interesting.
Yeah, it's great. It's great.
And like a studio not knowing what to do and being upset with
that product and like trying to market it in some way that like
they think will be more of a mainstream.
The fact that it then just also disappeared off streaming.
And it's like the studio did this still was like, oh, we
don't, yeah, this isn't. We don't.
We're not proud of this one. Do.
You know what I mean? Totally.
Like that. And so the fact that it like,
had to be kept alive by people like who were like, I saw this
movie 15 years ago, it's not possible to watch it.
Yeah, for me, I just had it on video, so I'd like, I kept on to
it. And then I think I got a DVD
from America, right, that I found on like eBay or something.
But yeah, it wasn't. And it was like then my prized
possession, I had it as a like an artifact.
Yeah, I mean, underdog Flop reclaimed.
Yeah. But yeah, I guess it's just like
you just you just wouldn't get a film like this now because
studios, unless it was a complete indie film, just
because I feel like the studios would just like bash a lot.
They would like either ramp up stuff even further.
But yeah, I just can't see it being made now.
I'm trying to think of something kind of equivalent, I guess
something like the substance is a little bit black comedy in the
same sort of way, and kind of that like satirical look at fame
and. Yeah, I guess that was like.
Quite. That is indie.
Indie that was like blew up though wasn't Yeah, but like the
fact this was like a big. Right.
Well, a bigger mainstream teen flick.
Yeah. It's like when at the beginning
of the episode when you're saying some of the other films
that are coming out at the time of this, I'm like, wow, it
really. You really understand there's
like teenagers where what camp you fit into?
Do you know what I mean? It's like either you were going
to see American Pie and loving wank jokes about shoving it in a
pie or you're kind of getting off on like this very fucking
weird look on like American culture.
Yeah, the director said. This movie is for the girls who
went to Clueless and were like fuck them.
I love. That it's so good.
I love that and I like Clueless. But yeah, so do I.
Yeah. Yeah, it's very bad, yeah.
Should we rate this movie? Let's do it.
So Merrill's quality of the movie, I think I'm going to
score it pretty high. I I think for like a
mockumentary black comedy, like I don't know what more do you
really want. The performances are great.
I think plot wise maybe like there's some issues with the
multiple endings that it kind of flounders a bit there.
But like, I don't really have many notes.
Yeah, I agree. I like, I think as a film
technically it is too long. Like it just needs a hard edit
at the end. I think there's a few too many
ideas and they don't really know which one to stick with.
I love, I find it so enjoyable, but I just think it does go on a
little bit. And yeah.
And aside from like a few moments that are like,
problematic, which could be tidied up.
And I think, you know, if you remade the film now and you
still were going to do that, there are ways of doing things
differently. But I think, yeah, I think it
pretty much delivers, and I think the performances are all
really stellar. Like everyone's at the top of
the game. Yeah, they know exactly what
they're doing. Yeah.
And I just think imagine, like, being on a lineup like that with
so many other, like, female actors, and everybody has
delivered what they need to deliver.
Yeah, I just think. And Kirstie Alley was a
Scientologist at the time. Spectacular.
Christie Alley turned out to be exactly her character, yeah.
That's so upsetting. Wild.
So wild. Yeah, I think I'm going to give
it a nine. Right, think I'm going to give
it an 8. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
OK, then how about Liza's? So yeah, I was thinking about
this on the way here. It's like underdog flop vibes,
queer joy, stupid fun and ongoing legacy.
It's like, yeah, it's there. The only thing that like dampen
some of the queer joy for me is like the jokes at the expense of
the person with an intellectual disability who is not even an
actor with that. That's the only thing that like,
but if I like snip that out of my brain, it's like a perfect
camp movie. I know what you're going to give
it. No, you don't.
You don't know me. OK, what are your lines?
I'm 100% ten this like this film.
So I think it's like when we talk about like, you know, our
own queerness and like what unlocks joy Queen is we spoke
about like Mortal Kombat for you.
You have it's it's a film that has stayed with you.
Yeah, that you've watched so many times.
And like whether or not you realize that you've probably
watched that in times of like loneliness, sadness, it's
brought it's done something to you.
And this film just like it's been there for me from like
being a very like awkward teenager into being a very
awkward adult. And it's, I've just, yeah, I've.
And I think it's just like it. My humour is all over this.
And I'm not saying that I'm like joking about like the
problematic areas because I don't think I do do that.
But I just, I love the like way it just takes a look at life and
just kind of, yeah, it's so cynical.
And I just, I think a lot of like my humour has come from
this film. And like I still do things as a
performer and as an individual that subliminally quotes stuff
from it. Like, one thing I always do it
when I perform is like, you know, the character who's like,
deaf and she's like sign language with the piano.
That's how I like links to tracks.
I don't think she said, Mr. Conductor, if you please, but I
say it in the same way. And that's from that.
And no one would ever know it. They wouldn't be like, oh,
you're doing that. But it's just, I used to find
that apparently she made-up all of that sign language, which is
even more problematic. Oops.
Sorry. Yeah.
I just think it's great. And I just love seeing, like,
funny women. I love funny women so much like,
and there's so much like because I work in TV and so much in my
life, I've been told that women aren't funny in comedy.
We work in TV, women aren't funny.
And we know that's not true. Yeah, there's no, that's not
true. But I just think there's so many
funny women in so many different ways in this movie, and I just
want to celebrate them. So I'm giving it to 10.
I love that. Yeah.
I mean, as far as this, as far as like the the point of view of
this movie, which is like giving the underdog in society a voice
and like showing the underdogs that life is fucking shit and
it's not fair and like making fun of all of that.
It's just so perfect from that perspective.
And it makes me so happy to see it's it's such a fun, it's a
funny movie. It's like, I feel like you
wouldn't show it to everyone. Like you have friends.
You'd be like, Oh, no, I, I wouldn't recommend this movie to
you, But there is lots of like, you know, you've got a good
person in your life. If you're like, oh.
That's the one. Yeah, you'll like this movie,
Yeah. But yeah, it's acquired.
It's not, it's not going to be for everyone.
It's definitely not for everyone.
I'll give it a 10 too. Oh, welcome.
Yeah, I mean, what we can't see is I've actually got a gun.
I'm going to gladness leave in your ass.
I've got like snipers around the room.
What are we saying again about drop dead gorgeous?
I actually if we didn't give it a 10 and listen, I will say I
hear the critiques. I hear them loud and wide, but I
think as we've discussed the goods on this sort of managed to
just outshine them slightly. But I would quit this podcast.
If this didn't get a 10 Liza Minnelli's I would quit.
That's I've been done. That's what I was afraid of.
I was like, I'm going to give it a nine, I'm going to give it a
nine, and then I crumble. Do you want to give it a nine?
Give it a nine. No, I no, I don't.
I don't I I love this movie. I'm glad it exists.
It's like it is the kind of camp that needs celebrating.
And as gay people, we're practiced in just squinting our
eyes when we see something we don't like.
And we can just, you know, omit that.
It's like showgirls, like, oh, yeah.
Like when we do showgirls, it's going to get a 10, and we're
going to have to live with that. So yeah.
And that's much more problematic.
Well, yeah. I mean, life is problematic.
Yes, we're problematic. Yeah.
The thing I do find funny with all of this is we have no
problem with people just being killed.
That's. Oh God.
No. That's the free line of our
podcast. Like, yeah, let's talk about the
difficult subjects, things that we are offensive.
Let's talk about punching down. Let's, like talk about not
settling on things. Murder, fine.
Yeah, I do believe in the empowerment of women.
Yeah, exploding in a swan. No problem.
I mean, what a way to go. It's a gorgeous 1 though.
It is. Well, that's drop dead gorgeous.
I guess we'll be back in two weeks with.
Notes on a scandal. Notes on a scandal.
I can't wait. So what is it you want to roll
around the floor like lovers? Thanks for being here.
We'll see you in two more weeks with another Camp Classic.
Just because this film, we've not done any of the quotes
really, but finished us off on one.
In the words of Gladys, it's always hard to see the young
ones called home, especially on an exploding thresher.
Bye. Get away from her you bitch.
Classic. He was in the Amazon with my mom
when she was researching spiders right before she died.
You thought you become a prostitute or a.
Dog at it. I used to love doggy chow.
I used to love doggy chow too.