1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:05,200
Hola, It's Crystal here, coming 
to you live from Brazil. 

2
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,520
If you listen carefully, you can
actually hear the sound of waves

3
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,480
lapping in the distance. 
I could hear people getting 

4
00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,240
bored with me, but I couldn't 
stop. 

5
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,120
Sorry this week's episode is 
coming up shortly, but I wanted 

6
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,000
to let you know some exciting 
news. 

7
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:26,200
Camp Classics is hosting our 
first ever live event in March. 

8
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,560
It's happening in collaboration 
with the British Film Institute 

9
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,040
as part of Flair Festival. 
Been a pressure. 

10
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:37,320
Flair is the BF is annual LGBT 
Film Festival and our event is 

11
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,960
happening on March 26th, which 
is a Thursday. 

12
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,280
The event is called Queerly 
Beloved. 4 celebs will be 

13
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,960
bringing a non queer movie that 
they think should be entered 

14
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,800
into the queer lexicon. 
Baby and I and the audience will

15
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,400
decide it's going to be really 
camp. 

16
00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:55,760
Tickets are on sale next Friday,
February 26th at noon. 

17
00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,880
It's at the BFI in London and 
seating is super limited so I 

18
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,720
would really suggest you buy 
early if you can come. 

19
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,760
And just think, this is your 
chance to shout wig in a room 

20
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,040
full of like minded souls. 
Wow, Damien, you truly outgate 

21
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,040
yourself. 
Hope to see you there. 

22
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:16,920
Get away from her. 
You. 

23
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,960
Bitch. 
Blasting. 

24
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,200
He was in the Amazon primal when
she was researching spiders 

25
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:34,520
right before she died. 
I used to love. 

26
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,200
Doggy chow I used. 
To love doggy chow too. 

27
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,480
I'll let you put it anywhere. 
I'm Crystal. 

28
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,200
What is this grandma with a 
birthday present? 

29
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,560
Suck it you dumb bitch. 
I'm sue gives a fuck. 

30
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,960
Oh my God. 
That's what I went with. 

31
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:57,520
And welcome to Camp Classics. 
A thoughtful movie about camp 

32
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,040
podcasts. 
I forgot to tell you. 

33
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:02,920
That's now correct. 
Yeah, that's correct. 

34
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,000
That's what it is. 
This is. 

35
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,440
This is a movie of. 
It is a movie of Sorry, it's. 

36
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,960
Thoughtful podcast about camp 
movies. 

37
00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:11,680
Every two weeks we are here 
discussing, rating, and 

38
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,040
exploring the peaks and valleys 
in the genre of camp in the 

39
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,440
search for the campus of Camp 
Classics. 

40
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,840
And I'm joined, of course, by 
the gorgeous Sue Gives a Fuck. 

41
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:27,160
Delighted to be standing in 
those very, very large shoes of 

42
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,840
Miss Baby Lame, who for present 
purposes is in a drawer under my

43
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:31,160
bed. 
Oh. 

44
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,920
Right, I was gonna say has 
fallen victim to one of my 

45
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,080
psychosexual mind games. 
Have you ever fucked on cocaine,

46
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,960
Nick? 
She's crudely drawn in a 

47
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,720
notebook, photocopied liberally.
She wishes she was in my 

48
00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,600
notebook. 
What do I think of her? 

49
00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,520
Yes, I don't think of her. 
Before we get into today's 

50
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,520
episode, we do have a Gatreon 
where you can get a bonus 

51
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,160
episode every month. 
You could be like Juno, Francis 

52
00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,840
and Tess who are new members. 
Thank you folks for being here. 

53
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,280
Thanks Juno, Francis and Tess. 
Yeah, or you could be like Mr. 

54
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,480
Bree, Bree and Laura who joined,
rinsed the free membership and 

55
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,160
then cancelled. 
And you know what? 

56
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,120
We support that too. 
Laura, you better get your bag. 

57
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,760
You know what you're doing. 
Times are tough. 

58
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,880
I do the same thing with 
subscription meal services. 

59
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,680
Help me, I'm poor. 
I bet you can get like you could

60
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,480
probably eat for a whole month 
on the like free. 

61
00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,960
You can eat for a month and then
move to the next one and then 

62
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,400
the next one. 
I think I've tried about four 

63
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,240
now. 
I love that, love that. 

64
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,120
Well, we're much less expensive.
We're basically the price of a 

65
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,200
posh coffee, so and you get, you
know, a whole extra hour and a 

66
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:41,960
half of our nonsense every month
so. 

67
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:46,920
Own posh people. 
But to seeing as baby isn't 

68
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,560
here, do you think you could 
tell the listeners what makes a 

69
00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,520
camp classic? 
I will give it a go. 

70
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,240
I have studied diligently for 
this role. 

71
00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,160
A camp classic is something that
unlocks Queer Joy King. 

72
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,720
It is something that it has a 
legacy. 

73
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:13,560
It is something that is 
underground slash flop vibes. 

74
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,920
And there's one more. 
It is stupid joy. 

75
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,079
Stupid fun. 
Stupid fun. 

76
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,040
I got AB minus for that you. 
Did very well, I'd say. 

77
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,760
Yeah, good work. 
All right, she. 

78
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,200
Listens to the podcast. 
And today we're actually letting

79
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,400
the listeners down because we 
are doing 2 movies, neither of 

80
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,760
which is a flop. 
You're right, actually, they're 

81
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,960
both successes. 
Yeah, we're doing something a 

82
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,680
bit different today. 
We're doing 2 movies, 1 episode.

83
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,680
This was not the original plan. 
No, it was not. 

84
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:49,400
I asked Sue to come on and we 
were originally going to do 

85
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,560
Dangerous Liaisons on the main 
feed and then Cruel Intentions 

86
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,600
on the Gatreon. 
And then I watched both of them 

87
00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,120
and I was like, I can't, I can't
talk about both of these movies 

88
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:01,840
for yeah, they're the same 
movie. 

89
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,160
Same movie, same subject matter.
Yeah, but I in my memory they 

90
00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,640
were quite different. 
But no, they're not. 

91
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,560
And so we're doing versus 
episode today. 

92
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:17,960
We're going to pit 2 Titans of 
sex games against each other and

93
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,640
see which one's camper the girls
are. 

94
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,600
Fighting and I think I know 
who's going to win. 

95
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,000
Yeah. 
Well, we'll see. 

96
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,520
We'll see. 
Yeah. 

97
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,720
So that'll be fun. 
We're doing Dangerous Liaisons 

98
00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,840
and Cruel Intentions. 
Perhaps we're calling it cruel 

99
00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:34,840
and dangerous. 
Cruel and dangerous. 

100
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,280
That's what I'm calling it. 
I was also. 

101
00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:40,040
Wondering like what other titles
would fit that format? 

102
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,840
I mean, Basic Constinct is also 
along those lines, isn't it? 

103
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:53,200
But like unnecessary journeys, 
don't make unnecessary journeys.

104
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,400
You need remakes and things that
are on the same subject matter. 

105
00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,160
First is. 
Oh no, I meant other. 

106
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,080
What? 
Because the titles are like kind

107
00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,120
of you. 
Just go in titles. 

108
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:04,400
Yeah, yeah. 
What other things could these 

109
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,160
movies have been called? 
Right. 

110
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,680
OK so I was going Emma and 
clueless. 

111
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,360
Right which? 
Is a whole different vibe. 

112
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,160
Yeah, that would be quite fun. 
The Gwyneth Paltrow, Emma and 

113
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,520
the Alicia Silverstone. 
Clueless. 

114
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:15,680
Yeah. 
Pretty calm, sure. 

115
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,920
Taming of the Shrew and 10 
Things I Hate About You I don't 

116
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,560
know, is there a movie? 
Oh, and they rhyme. 

117
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,280
Gorgeous. 
Love that. 

118
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,760
Well, we've comes the end of 
that segment now, haven't we? 

119
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,800
We did really well. 
We got, yeah, we came up with a 

120
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,640
couple. 
Wagner's ring cycle and Lord of 

121
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,760
the Rings. 
And that's why I don't often get

122
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,000
to Co host. 
The Ring Cycle. 

123
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,240
They did a porn parody of that 
too, didn't they? 

124
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,760
No, they didn't of. 
Course they didn't. 

125
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,240
Oh, I would watch that. 
The ring cycle. 

126
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,880
The Ring Cycle, the best porn 
parody title Parks and 

127
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,080
Recreation, they have a porn 
character that does like spoof 

128
00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:03,200
porn films and she did a RIP off
of Argo and it's called Our Goo 

129
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,320
OK. 
Oh no, that does not work. 

130
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,720
You need to come back for babies
porn quiz because we we had some

131
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,360
good ones. 
Oh my God, that's a segment. 

132
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,040
Yeah, both of. 
I need that. 

133
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,800
Yeah, both of us also do it at 
like a drag brunch. 

134
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,640
We'll do like a true or false? 
Is this a real porn parody or 

135
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,400
not? 
I actually love. 

136
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,520
That How about this one 
Sperminator 2 judgement lay. 

137
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:29,920
I can't remember if that's real 
or. 

138
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,560
Not if it isn't. 
I'm making it. 

139
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,520
It just doesn't matter at this 
point. 

140
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,480
This has changed. 
Get your clothes off. 

141
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,480
We are making Sperminator 2. 
Yeah, right. 

142
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,040
Or perhaps a little bit of a 
scatty 1. 

143
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,080
I just came up with this off the
spot. 

144
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,560
Sharknado 4. 
Sharknado. 

145
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:57,480
No, no, it's already a 
portmanteau. 

146
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:04,040
You're right that it's a quad. 
It's a quad to portmanteau. 

147
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:09,280
Portmanteau 2 portmanteau and 
I'm so creative like that. 

148
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,080
Wow. 
And that is the kind of 

149
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,200
linguistic foreplay that you can
expect. 

150
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,080
What is your history with Cruel 
Intentions and or Dangerous 

151
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,720
Liaisons? 
Dangerous Liaisons I never 

152
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,160
tried, always been curious. 
Cruel Intentions, it was 

153
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:34,080
probably my favorite film as a 
team and rewatched it. 

154
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:39,080
Maybe only somebody watched it 
about 6 times as a team and then

155
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,080
rewatched it. 
Maybe never all the way through 

156
00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,280
since that time until this. 
Was so glad to revisit it 

157
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:47,920
because you just don't know 
what's going to hold up and my 

158
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,720
God it holds right up. 
Yeah, in ways. 

159
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:56,640
I mean, morals have changed. 
It's interesting how much morals

160
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,720
have changed since the 90s 
compared to the gap between the 

161
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,840
1990s and the 1670s. 
Yeah. 1770s. 

162
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,720
Yeah, 1770s. 
Yeah, yeah. 

163
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,640
It's so true. 
To the point where they could 

164
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,280
have Sarah Michelle Gellar do 
almost the same speech about 

165
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,920
sort of proto feminism that 
Glenn Close does and Dangerous 

166
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,480
Liaisons, and it's still hit 
just as hard. 

167
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,200
Yeah. 
Which is basically, if men do 

168
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,720
it, they're playing. 
Those were invented for the 

169
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,920
modern adaptations. 
Do you know what I mean? 

170
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,240
Like I bet she doesn't have a 
rant about she does feminism in 

171
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:34,560
the oh she. 
Does 100. 

172
00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:35,120
Percent. 
Oh wow. 

173
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,640
But I mean, you know, read 
between the lines and you see 

174
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,520
it's actually about mad women, 
right? 

175
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,200
But like, it is still women are 
obliged to be closeted and 

176
00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,160
costed and so I had to resort to
cruelty and wickedness. 

177
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,400
Relatable, right? 
I mean, I'm not confined to my 

178
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:54,920
house, but I'd prefer to stay 
there. 

179
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,400
So I just have to send messages 
online. 

180
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,320
This is the modern equivalent of
Glenn Close and Dangerous 

181
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,000
Liaisons. 
Is it like an insult in their 

182
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,320
basement? 
Just a troll, yeah. 

183
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,880
In their mum's basement. 
Just say, Minga, you've seen my 

184
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,840
posts. 
So yeah. 

185
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,160
And me. 
What's my history? 

186
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,080
Yeah. 
Cruel Intentions. 

187
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,400
I think I kind of missed it as a
teen, but definitely, you know, 

188
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:26,080
caught up pretty early on. 
And no real history with 

189
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,720
Dangerous Liaisons. 
I had seen it before, but I 

190
00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,120
watched it again this week. 
But yeah, they are the same 

191
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,640
movie, it turns out. 
Yeah, same subject matter during

192
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,360
similar ways, very different 
contexts. 

193
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:41,640
Yeah, I would say expertly 
transposed from, yeah, 1770s 

194
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,760
French court to 1990s Manhattan 
prep school. 

195
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,040
Yeah, preppy kids. 
Yeah. 

196
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,160
So let's get into the context 
real quick, starting with 

197
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,360
Dangerous Liaisons. 
It was made in 1988 on a budget 

198
00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,960
of 14,000,000, and it made 35 
million at the box office, so a 

199
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:06,360
decent, you know, modest hit. 
It has 91% on Rotten Tomatoes. 

200
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,040
That's too many percent. 
Too many percent and it was 

201
00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,160
nominated for seven Oscars. 
That's too many. 

202
00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,440
Best Picture, Best Actress and 
Best Supporting Actress. 

203
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,840
I'd say that's about 5 too many.
It won adapted screenplay, art 

204
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,080
direction, and costume design, 
Sure. 

205
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,320
Okay, fair enough. 
Okay, three too many. 

206
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,320
Yeah, starring. 
Oh gosh, what a list. 

207
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,840
Glenn Close. 
Welcome to the podcast Glenn 

208
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,240
Close. 
I believe this is our first 

209
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,120
Glenn Close picture. 
I think so. 

210
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,000
We. 
Should probably do Fatal 

211
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,760
Attraction at some point. 
Oh, absolutely. 

212
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,400
John Malkovich? 
Fine. 

213
00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:46,480
Michelle Pfeiffer. 
Enjoy your time on the podcast, 

214
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,800
John, because you ain't coming 
back. 

215
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,680
I think this is your one and 
only appearance. 

216
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:55,960
We've got Michelle Pfeiffer, Uma
Thurman, Susie Kurtz, Peter 

217
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,760
Capaldi and Keanu Reeves. 
Oh, I forgot, Peter Capaldi as 

218
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,720
the Servant. 
Yes, that's camp, isn't it? 

219
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,960
Then moving on to Cruel 
Intentions, made in 1999 on a 

220
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,960
budget of $10 million, it made a
whopping 76,000,000 at the box 

221
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,920
office. 
It's got 54% on Rotten Tomatoes.

222
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,600
Unreasonable. 
Too few percent you. 

223
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,880
Think that's too few? 
Way too few percent. 

224
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,680
Interesting. 
And it won such illustrious 

225
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,360
awards as the Blockbuster Movie 
Award. 

226
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,720
Favorite Supporting Actress? 
And the MTV Music Award Best 

227
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,360
Kiss, Exactly, which holds up to
this day because it's true. 

228
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,360
Oh, that's spittle. 
Yeah, it is starring Are you 

229
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,480
ready, Ryan Philippe, Sarah 
Michelle Gellar, Reese 

230
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,960
Witherspoon and Selma Blair. 
Also starring Joshua Jackson, 

231
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:57,120
Christine Baranski, Tara Reid 
and also Susie Kurtz, she's the 

232
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,280
one through line of. 
Course she is good for her. 

233
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,280
Good for her. 
OK, so the plot. 

234
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,560
I'm going to do my best to skim 
through this plot, but just 

235
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:12,760
brace yourself for a bit of an 
overwhelming list of names. 

236
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,280
But for the most part, the plot 
is the exact same, so we can 

237
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:16,400
just hopefully skim through 
this. 

238
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,360
OK, so it's Valmont and Mertoy 
plotting against the world. 

239
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,720
They are sexy schemers. 
I'm sick of sleeping with these 

240
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:32,160
insipid Manhattan debutantes. 
Valmont is played by John 

241
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:37,200
Malkovich and Ryan Philippe, and
Mertoy is Glenn Close and Sarah 

242
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,960
Michelle Gellar. 
Oh, I love that you're combining

243
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:39,800
the two. 
Yes. 

244
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,240
They make a wager about Valmont 
being able to have sex with the 

245
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,000
purest virgin in the land who is
Annette or Madame Torvell, 

246
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,920
played by Reese Witherspoon and 
Michelle Pfeiffer. 

247
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,600
If Valmont wins, he gets to have
anal with more toy. 

248
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,600
I believe the anal is implied in
the classic traditional period 

249
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,400
piece. 
It is explicit in Cruel 

250
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,640
Intentions. 
She will let him put it anywhere

251
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,160
and they are stepbrother and 
sister in the new one so. 

252
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:13,560
What a great pony choice that 
is, because I do feel like the 

253
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:18,160
original work does suffer from 
like, well, just be together. 

254
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,400
If you're going to have this 
weird, complex psychosexual 

255
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,840
drama that, like, you mean so 
much more to each other than you

256
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,680
ever could to all of these other
inferior people, just be 

257
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:28,480
together. 
Yeah. 

258
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,320
But you can't because you're 
siblings, which is so hot. 

259
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,400
Is that? 
Oh don't pretend you haven't 

260
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,680
watched those videos. 
Siblings is the least of it. 

261
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,480
Jesus. 
I want to fuck. 

262
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,520
And I don't Speaking of porn 
parodies, OK? 

263
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,480
Simultaneously, they also 
conspire to ruin the reputation 

264
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,280
of the innocent, naive Cecile, 
who is played by Selma Blair 

265
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,640
slash Uma Thurman, partially 
just to piss off her mother, who

266
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,360
is Susie Kurtz slash Christine 
Baranski. 

267
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,920
Valmont rapes Cecile and then 
becomes her sexual tutor, which 

268
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,320
puts him at odds with her 
forbidden lover Dawnsony slash 

269
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,040
Ronald, played by Keanu Reeves 
and Sean Patrick Thomas. 

270
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,920
Valmont eventually succeeds in 
getting Annette Slash Torvell to

271
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,920
fall in love with him, but he 
accidentally falls in love with 

272
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,880
her at the same time. 
Hate when that happens. 

273
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,600
He feels kind of bad about his 
betrayal of her and this whole 

274
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,280
thing he's doing, but they have 
sex and then Valmont goes to 

275
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:40,520
Mertoi to get his prize, but she
realizes he's in love and 

276
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,280
doesn't want to be second fiddle
to some prude, so she 

277
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,240
manipulates him into breaking it
off with Annette slash Torvell, 

278
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,000
saying he'll lose his reputation
as a Playboy. 

279
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,440
He then cruelly breaks up with 
Annette slash Torvell, only to 

280
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,520
have Mertoi mock him for giving 
up on true love, and she still 

281
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,280
refuses to have sex with him. 
But unfortunately I don't fuck 

282
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,640
losers. 
War is declared between the two 

283
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,920
and Murtoy 6 dulciny slash 
Ronald on Belmont, who is 

284
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,320
accidentally killed. 
Valmont's journal slash letters 

285
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,480
are then revealed after his 
death, showing the world how 

286
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,680
Murtoy really is, and she is 
publicly shamed. 

287
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,360
No, I think you nailed that. 
Okay, great. 

288
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,760
And until you did that, I just 
hadn't realized how exactly the 

289
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,040
same they are. 
Exactly the same. 

290
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,520
But yeah, maybe we could start 
with our verses and our camp off

291
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,240
of the point differences. 
Okay, fun. 

292
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,680
Because there are some, but 
they're minor. 

293
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:50,320
I'd say the teen one does a 
surprisingly decent job for the 

294
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,680
time of trying to give some of 
the women a bit more agency and 

295
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,040
a bit more depth, and that 
especially comes through during 

296
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:03,960
the ending, which in Dangerous 
Liaisons 1988 Michelle Pfeiffer,

297
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,960
she just dies. 
She just dies. 

298
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,200
She's. 
Just broken hearted. 

299
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,200
Of heartbreak. 
She dies of heartbreak. 

300
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,520
Because she can't have the man 
that raped her. 

301
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,800
She makes a county corpse though
she is hot. 

302
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,640
I mean she's outrageous. 
She makes a Kunti living person 

303
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,079
as well. 
Beautiful Kunti really isn't. 

304
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,520
That when she's all blue and 
they're like closing her eyes, 

305
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,599
I'm like, wow, you look, you 
look stunning. 

306
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,440
Well, we do love sexy dead 
women. 

307
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,920
Meanwhile in Cruel Intentions 
Media, Yeah. 

308
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,160
Meanwhile, in Cruel Intentions 
and that she gets revenge, she 

309
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,600
gets she wins laugh, she wins. 
It ends with her driving off in 

310
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,560
Sebastian's car, hair in the 
wind, looking pretty sick. 

311
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,480
Yeah, so that's quite fun, 
apparently. 

312
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,800
Reese Witherspoon said no to the
role when she was offered it, 

313
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,120
and then campaigned to basically
give Annette more depth, to give

314
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,520
her a bit of sass, to give her 
more agency, just basically give

315
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,160
her a bit of spunk. 
I heard this, which is really 

316
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,880
impressed because she was really
young, early 20s. 

317
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,160
And so to have the Hotspur to 
say to a director know you're 

318
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,000
going to rewrite this character,
and then to know how to do that 

319
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,200
to create a more empowered 
character, it's pretty 

320
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,600
impressive, I think. 
Go on, Reese Witherspoon. 

321
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,560
I think so. 
And they do the same to a degree

322
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,720
with Sarah Michelle Gellar's 
character. 

323
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,080
So the sort of pivotal moment 
was the end where she reneges on

324
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,000
their agreement. 
So Glenn Close reneges for a 

325
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,880
position of weakness because she
will not be second fiddle. 

326
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:39,560
But ultimately she won't shag 
him because she's in love with 

327
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,440
him and she sees that he doesn't
love her and that he loves 

328
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:45,960
Michelle Pfeiffer, and she 
breaks down and she can't cope 

329
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,360
with it. 
Sarah Michelle Gellar says I 

330
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:51,880
don't fuck losers. 
Unfortunately I don't fuck 

331
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,240
losers. 
That's different. 

332
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,280
Relatable. 
Yeah, so she kind of wins before

333
00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:02,720
interesting as a an iconic 
photocopy based downfall. 

334
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,440
One of two in this year because 
Jawbreaker comes out this year 

335
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,760
too. 
What's it so? 

336
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,680
Which one was first? 
Good question. 

337
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,640
I don't think that they would. 
Have they would have written it 

338
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,960
independently, weren't they? 
Wow. 

339
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,160
And were those were there any 
photocopy based downfalls in 

340
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,640
cinema before this? 
There must have been, because. 

341
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,760
Obviously there's Mean Girls 
that comes afterwards, but 1999 

342
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,480
was the year of that. 
Yeah, I often think of Mean 

343
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,200
Girls as just totally ripping 
off Jawbreaker with that bit, 

344
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,680
but actually, yeah, you know, 
it's ripping off. 

345
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,120
It's kind of Fair play at that 
point. 

346
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:42,040
It's just like, well, that's 
this is now a trope, so. 

347
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,480
This is just how we do teen 
movies. 

348
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,800
Photocopy based downfalls. 
Yeah, that's interesting. 

349
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,240
You were talking about the Sarah
Michelle Gellar and Glenn Close,

350
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,640
because I actually thought it 
was more interesting, the Glenn 

351
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,040
Close situation. 
But you're right, she does have 

352
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,040
less power. 
Which is itself, I think, a bit 

353
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,480
more psychologically interesting
because Sarah Michelle Gellar's 

354
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,880
because especially they do give 
her a feminist speech, but they 

355
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,880
just don't quite have the power 
behind it that you would have in

356
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,200
1770. 
Yeah. 

357
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,120
So her kind of cruelty comes off
as nihilistic. 

358
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,640
Yes. 
And so still very sexy and 

359
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,080
fabulous, but maybe just a 
little bit less gripping. 

360
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,200
You don't get that. 
You're never going to get an 

361
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,840
Oscar winning breakdown moment. 
If your character is just a 

362
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,240
nihilist. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

363
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,440
It's very well said. 
It is camper though. 

364
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,280
Oh yeah, it's way camper than to
just because. 

365
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,480
She's just ice queen and it's 
and it's aspirational, frankly. 

366
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,040
Life's a bitch now. 
So am I. 

367
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,160
Yeah, May. 
She's just an ice queen with a 

368
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,320
cocaine crucifix. 
Yeah. 

369
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,960
Aspire to be. 
I bought a cocaine crucifix. 

370
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,800
Turns out they're not very 
sturdy. 

371
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,720
Those little spoons, they'll get
bent and then it's no point to 

372
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:58,800
it. 
Oh wow. 

373
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,360
Don't do drugs, kids. 
Or at least if you're going to 

374
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:13,080
get expensive for central girls.
Just a normal spoon. 

375
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,920
The other big plot point I would
say is Valmont's character. 

376
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,760
The the big difference between 
the two, because I would say in 

377
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,400
Cruel Intentions, he's kind of 
redeemed. 

378
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,120
Oh yeah, he wins, doesn't he? 
And. 

379
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,560
In death, he has a real change 
of heart that we see. 

380
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,280
He sacrifices himself to save a 
net. 

381
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,640
He pushes her out of the way of 
the car so he gets hit and he's 

382
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,760
really changed his mind. 
Was meant to see believe that 

383
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,960
this character has undergone a 
transformation. 

384
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,200
So he's more interesting, she's 
less. 

385
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:45,280
Right. 
Yeah. 

386
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:50,040
And then in Dangerous Liaisons, 
I guess there's a a bit of that,

387
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:51,400
but. 
He kind of falls for Michelle 

388
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,400
Pfeiffer. 
Yeah, he falls for her, but 

389
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,480
there's never, there's not quite
as much of like a hero journey 

390
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,240
situation there. 
He doesn't get the full 

391
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,560
redemption. 
He kind of dies a schmuck. 

392
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,000
Yeah, there's an undignified 
death and he has rejected 

393
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,360
Michelle Pfeiffer. 
At that point, yeah. 

394
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,880
Which is camper though. 
As in a choice in the as an 

395
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,600
ending. 
Because it that one of the, the,

396
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,440
the problem I think I might have
with cruel intentions is this 

397
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,960
redemption storyline, because he
is just such a piece of shit and

398
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,480
like, I'm not willing to like 
forget about his at best date 

399
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:31,680
rape, a homophobic blackmail, 
psychological manipulation, 

400
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,320
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 
Revenge porn. 

401
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,400
Revenge porn The movie starts 
with him doing revenge porn on 

402
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,960
Tara Reid. 
On Tara Reid, so excited about 

403
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,040
Sharknado and I hope you stay 
married. 

404
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,640
I'm using it as a way to get at 
her mom. 

405
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,800
Yeah, quite cap. 
That's quite cap. 

406
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,840
I mean, it's like it's a really 
fun opening. 

407
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,920
It's a really fun opening. 
One of the things with good 

408
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,240
intentions I the really 
problematic moments, they're 

409
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:02,920
wittily written to you struggle.
Like Susie Kurtz saying to Tara 

410
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:04,640
Reid, how could you be so 
stupid? 

411
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,200
Yeah, it's just immediately goes
to victim blaming when she gets 

412
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,960
revenge porn. 
It is quite fun when Selma Blair

413
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,040
has her legs in an undignified 
akimbo because she hasn't 

414
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,440
learned to sit properly. 
And Ryan Philippe says, oh, how,

415
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,320
How are things down Under? 
Blossoming, I hope. 

416
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,160
And Christine Baranski says 
close your legs. 

417
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,200
This isn't Jamaica. 
I love Christine Baranski's 

418
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,120
character because she's just 
playing like, yeah, a parody of 

419
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,400
a racist, and it's really, 
really funny. 

420
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,280
Like what does that even mean? 
Nobody's see, This is why it's 

421
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,720
good writing because it's such a
curveball. 

422
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,240
And it just makes you like, you 
gasp, you, you gasp because you 

423
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,240
also like, they've been on 
holidays to Jamaica or there's 

424
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,720
something that stand. 
Why does Jamaica stand in for 

425
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,600
everything that's wrong in this 
world for her? 

426
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,760
And it's just like, I'm just 
getting a vision into this 

427
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,480
little world of yours. 
Yeah, I'm wonderful. 

428
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,920
I mean, it's, it's racist. 
Yeah, but it's but you're meant 

429
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,320
to laugh at this woman for being
racist, I think. 

430
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,480
Whereas I think with the Susie 
Kurtz line, you're like, I'm not

431
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,640
sure if the movie, which side 
the movie thinks about this. 

432
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,880
Like, does it think that it's 
Tara Reid's fault? 

433
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,840
I think it might. 
I don't think the movie thinks 

434
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,840
the racism of Christine Baranski
is OK, and it's definitely 

435
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,280
making fun of Christine 
Baranski. 

436
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,280
We have come a long way in 20 or
so years. 

437
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,000
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, actually, I don't think 

438
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,560
even the audience, it would 
really have occurred to the 

439
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,880
audience that like, it's 
problematic to say that she 

440
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,240
really should have not let 
revenge porn be made about her. 

441
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,920
Honestly. 
Victim blaming was not a term. 

442
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,640
No, no. 
When did that get invented? 

443
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,720
Last month, probably, yeah. 
So where were we? 

444
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:44,600
Oh, yeah. 
Valmont. 

445
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:45,720
Yeah. 
This is just this whole 

446
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:46,440
redemption. 
I just. 

447
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,280
That is the thing that I think 
stuck in my craw the most. 

448
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,120
Watching Cruel Intentions this 
time I was like how dare you try

449
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:57,000
and convince me that this D bag 
is somehow redeemed. 

450
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,440
Because especially when you're 
doing he. 

451
00:24:58,440 --> 00:24:59,360
Hasn't earned it. 
No. 

452
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:01,360
And when you're doing a 
moralistic ending for Sarah 

453
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,160
Michelle Gellar's character? 
Exactly because why is she 

454
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,080
punished and he's not? 
Yeah, but you do have to have a 

455
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:08,800
winner. 
You can't. 

456
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,240
I mean, you don't because 
actually Fatal Attraction, they 

457
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,720
they're both losers. 
So you could go down that route.

458
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,200
Do you think that would be 
better? 

459
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,400
I think it would have made a 
less successful teen movie 

460
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,080
because this movie is kind of 
trying to figure out a way to be

461
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,440
a romance story, which is a 
weird thing to try and do with 

462
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,760
this source material, I think. 
It's so right. 

463
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,960
It's a romance, isn't it? 
And it also gives you one more 

464
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,200
twist. 
Yes. 

465
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,560
Which it does benefit from, 
Yeah. 

466
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,040
Like it really uses that 
photocopy demise really well. 

467
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,680
So I love it. 
OK, but then how about the 

468
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,560
actual ending scenes though? 
Because in Dangerous Liaisons. 

469
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:56,200
Both bad. 
We get some bad combat in both. 

470
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,640
Movies. 
OK, Yeah, yeah, the fight 

471
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,840
scenes. 
Oh no. 

472
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,480
Were there were there no combat 
choreographers at that time? 

473
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,200
I like to think in Dangerous 
Liaisons, when they're doing 

474
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,160
this little fencing duel, that 
they're meant to look like 

475
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,320
idiots. 
Yeah, I get that. 

476
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,640
I don't think they, I don't know
if that's true or not, but 

477
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,800
that's my reading of it. 
Like they're meant. 

478
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,880
It's like, look how stupid these
boys are. 

479
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,800
It's playing with swords. 
The girls are fighting. 

480
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,640
It is undignified, and I hope 
that's a generous reading. 

481
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,840
And it's very. 
There might be some truth in 

482
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,280
that because that it does also 
work thematically. 

483
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,520
Yeah. 
Less so in Cruel Intentions. 

484
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,440
Yeah. 
It's just bad. 

485
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,520
Yeah. 
Because you know what they 

486
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,160
needed to do with Cruel 
Intentions, which is they needed

487
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,760
the Rodney Dorsett Dawnsony 
character to pull a knife on 

488
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,040
him. 
Right. 

489
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,280
But they have obviously could 
not do that to the only black 

490
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,360
character in a film that really 
plays with racism. 

491
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,640
Yeah. 
So there's just that just was 

492
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,440
not an option. 
And So what they had to have is 

493
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,240
he is cajoled into starting this
fight, which he doesn't want to 

494
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,640
start. 
He's being very reasonable, but 

495
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:15,680
he does throw a punch and and 
then Annette Reese Witherspoon 

496
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:23,200
runs in to save Ryan Philippe. 
But then she somehow rolls into 

497
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,120
the road a few times to get 
really under the wheel of a car,

498
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:31,880
and Ryan Philippe has to run and
save her and then lie himself 

499
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,600
under the car. 
And he gets hit by a car not 

500
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,200
moving. 
Not that quickly, I don't. 

501
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,320
I'm just gonna say I don't think
that man is dead, no. 

502
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,920
He's not. 
Also, she did not need to save 

503
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,680
him because when she runs over, 
Rodney has just got him just 

504
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,640
with his arms just behind his 
back, just like that in in 1/2 

505
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,040
Nelson. 
Yeah, No one's in trouble. 

506
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,600
They're doing a bit of WWF. 
It's not a problem. 

507
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:55,800
Boys will be boys. 
Let them have fun. 

508
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,840
It never really works. 
That trope of I need to push 

509
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,760
someone out of the way of a car 
because the second you analyze 

510
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,560
it and it's sometimes movies can
convince you, like through 

511
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,320
camera trickery, that is a 
problem. 

512
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,680
There's somehow time for that to
happen. 

513
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,400
But this movie fails because 
that car is approaching for a 

514
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,280
very long time. 
It's got to be going very 

515
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,680
slowly. 
But also, OK, so then that fight

516
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,400
scene, yes, I don't know if 
anything gets to be called camp 

517
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,560
there, but it's probably the 
sword play if if one's going to 

518
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,560
be camp Kemper over the other. 
But you know, we're we're 

519
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,200
talking small potatoes here. 
But how about like the Murtoy, 

520
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:43,240
the ruin of her because Glenn 
Close finds out that Valmont is 

521
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,560
dead and she trashes her 
gorgeous apt. 

522
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,880
I mean, that is fabulous. 
It's fabulous and it's a great, 

523
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,120
grotesque performance. 
Yep. 

524
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,120
And then she goes to the opera, 
she's composed herself and 

525
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,440
she's, you kind of get the 
impression, OK, she's shaking it

526
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,640
off like, and that's kind of 
you're back to icy Facade. 

527
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,640
Yeah, which is, which is nice. 
And still we see the colour has 

528
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,280
drained from her face, like she 
is going through the motions 

529
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,480
now. 
Yeah, and then the entire Opera 

530
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,840
House turns at her and looks at 
her, and she realizes everyone 

531
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,360
knows all of her secrets. 
And then they start booing. 

532
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:27,280
They start, they start ooing. 
Oh, hello. 

533
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,000
Who chose that? 
I don't know, but it's great. 

534
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,360
There's so many gorgeous 
costumes like it is, you know, 

535
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,320
hundreds of extras dressed 
stunningly just giving her a 

536
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,840
good ooing. 
It's nice. 

537
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:42,480
It's undeniably calm. 
Yeah. 

538
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,200
And then she just pivots. 
She's like, I won't let them see

539
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,840
me weak. 
I won't let them see weak. 

540
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,480
And she just stumbles a little 
bit on her way out-of-the-box. 

541
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,480
Fabulous. 
And then we see her back in the 

542
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,840
mirror where we started the 
movie, and she's removing her 

543
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,360
makeup, which is a trope that I 
will always enjoy the substance.

544
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,680
If it ain't broke, yeah. 
And she's just like rubbing 

545
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,760
herself raw. 
Single tier excellent. 

546
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,440
Exquisite Sonim, whereas crude 
intentions you've got 

547
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,720
Sebastian's funeral. 
Sebastian's funeral. 

548
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,880
And all of the students are 
there and she is. 

549
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,040
Sarah Michelle Gellar is giving 
her speech as class president 

550
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,600
and she is showing single tier 
again. 

551
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,920
She is going to cope. 
And she knows that Sebastian 

552
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,320
would say, I'm sorry. 
And he would say, and then he, 

553
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,280
she knows that people are 
leaving. 

554
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:35,680
And she's like, what is going 
on? 

555
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,320
So she follows them outside, and
she sees that it's actually 

556
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,920
Selma. 
Blair is handing out these 

557
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:48,240
photocopied printouts from 
Sebastian's journal, which are 

558
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,720
absolutely not befitting the 
sophistication of the character.

559
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,200
Yeah, ring, but like plastic 
ring binder. 

560
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,800
Say like, like we're just like a
picture of her with like I'm a 

561
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,200
bitch in like speech, Mark. 
And this is a guy who like open 

562
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,040
till this point has had these, 
you know, Machiavellian 

563
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:14,040
manoeuvres and these like clean 
cut tailored suits who seems 

564
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,920
like he's like 36 even though 
he's about 19. 

565
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,760
Well, no. 17. 17 of course, but 
he keeps the diary of a 12 year 

566
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,480
old girl. 
Yeah, that's now being 

567
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,400
photocopied and released and it 
includes the cross. 

568
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,760
So then the, I think it's the 
head teacher is it that comes 

569
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,720
out and shakes the Coke out of 
her cross and she is, she's 

570
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,080
destroyed. 
And then we have a net driving 

571
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,360
away, hair in the wind in 
Sebastian's old sports car. 

572
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,760
Yeah. 
So which is better? 

573
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,960
I think that the Dangerous 
Liaisons ending is both camper 

574
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,440
and actually technically better.
It's funner to watch. 

575
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,200
Both are great, don't get me 
wrong. 

576
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,640
I think it's a great Cruel 
Intentions. 

577
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,480
It's a great ending, but I got 
to give it to Glenn in this one.

578
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,920
I don't know. 
I love AI, love a neat little 

579
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:11,360
twist and I love a film where 
the the the twist or the climax 

580
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,920
really the is the downfall is 
seconds before credits roll, 

581
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,920
right. 
There's no real tie up. 

582
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,040
All it is that one shot of a net
driving away. 

583
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,680
I really, really like that. 
There's no time. 

584
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,000
It's just like, OK, she's one, 
she's ultimately one. 

585
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,600
She's giving this speech. 
It's the high point and then 

586
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:36,600
she's destroyed the end. 
I really enjoy that and like, do

587
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,400
you does it count as a twist if 
you kind of see it come in? 

588
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,720
Because you we always know that 
he's had his notebook. 

589
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,000
Yeah, I don't know. 
I can't put myself back into a 

590
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,200
headspace where I didn't know 
what was going to happen. 

591
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,120
So maybe the maybe you're right,
Like on first, the first impact 

592
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,760
of ever seeing Cruel Intentions.
Maybe it's fun. 

593
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,600
It's really fun. 
And then you'd see that it's 

594
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,560
Selma Blair's character that is 
handing them out, and that's 

595
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,320
like a real growth for her 
because she's been basically a 

596
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:04,320
baby. 
True. 

597
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,440
And now she's getting her 
revenge. 

598
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,400
Again, not I'm not sure the 
movie earned that transformation

599
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,120
for Selma Blair. 
And also in this world of slut 

600
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,080
shaming that we inhabit in Cruel
Intentions, where it's bad 

601
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,240
enough that Sarah Michelle 
Gellar has to become the Uber 

602
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,480
bitch to survive. 
Sorry, Selma Blair and Reese 

603
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,600
Witherspoon are not getting out 
of that journal unscathed. 

604
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,400
They are also social pariahs 
now, and you have to just 

605
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,120
pretend that like, they're not 
for the purposes of this movie, 

606
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,480
but like in the real world, 
they're getting just as bad as 

607
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,280
Sarah Michelle Gellar. 
If anything, Sarah Michelle 

608
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,160
Gellar might get some points for
being at least, you know, a. 

609
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,320
Mean Girl. 
Yeah, we love Mean Girls. 

610
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,920
Whereas, as the opening of the 
film makes clear, we hate a 

611
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,600
victim. 
Yeah, 1999 hated A victim. 

612
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,600
And they're kind of even more 
victims than Tara Reid was. 

613
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,600
Yes. 
You're right there folks. 

614
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,280
Yeah, you're right. 
OK. 

615
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:03,800
So I'm going to give it overall 
ending to the 1989 with the 

616
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,600
caveat that I actually don't 
find smashing up the room that 

617
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,880
interesting because it is just 
so standard. 

618
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,239
Yeah, it's Trophy. 
It's a beautiful room she's 

619
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,560
smashing up. 
And she smashes very well. 

620
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,400
Yeah, and this, I think there's 
a whole trope running through 

621
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,880
this movie with mirrors. 
There is. 

622
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,199
And so then she smashes all her 
mirrors, which I quite like. 

623
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,280
Which is great because it is all
about being seen, yeah. 

624
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:29,800
What about just like, OK, so 
let's look at Glenn Close versus

625
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,560
Sarah Michelle Gellar that feels
shouldn't ever really have to be

626
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,120
put against each. 
Other That feels unfair to Sarah

627
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,880
to say that because I cannot 
find a flaw in what she did. 

628
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,960
No, like, it was so hot. 
Yeah. 

629
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,480
I don't think there's any actor,
dead or alive, that could have 

630
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,400
played that part within the 
limits of that part better. 

631
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,600
Oh wow, I don't. 
Like, I can think of people who 

632
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,120
would have played it at that 
time, like friend of the show 

633
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,160
Rose McGowan would have played 
it probably quite similar. 

634
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,080
I don't think anyone could 
really have done it better. 

635
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:07,360
Yeah. 
I think you're probably right 

636
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,160
about that. 
She killed it and she was 

637
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,400
initially cast as a net, right? 
Because I guess as of Buffy, 

638
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,840
everyone just thought she was 
the good girl and she was like, 

639
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,200
I don't want to be a good girl. 
And apparently Joss Whedon, RIP 

640
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,360
said don't do it. 
It's porn. 

641
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,320
Yeah, Sarah, Michelle, Gellar's 
manager, said don't do it. 

642
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,560
Everyone's just starting to like
you. 

643
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:30,840
Why would you do that? 
Yeah. 

644
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,720
And so she fired him. 
She fired him. 

645
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,400
She. 
Apparently really pursued that. 

646
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,000
Like the script ended up with 
her and she was like, I want to 

647
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:37,920
be in this movie. 
That's. 

648
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,240
Great. 
It is great. 

649
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,480
I mean, we love to see someone 
playing against type. 

650
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,440
It's so refreshing. 
And she's like just, it's so 

651
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,800
nail on the head. 
But she's like, what if I was a 

652
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,640
bad girl with brown hair? 
I mean, that's just like the 

653
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,200
rules of feminism, right? 
And this is important because 

654
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,440
one problem I had with Dangerous
Liaisons is I will not permit 

655
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,080
you to cast Uma Thurman and 
Michelle Pfeiffer in next to 

656
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,960
each other in roles because I 
can't tell them apart. 

657
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,520
What I cannot tell them apart. 
They are 10 years apart in age, 

658
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,040
but they look identical and they
are both blonde. 

659
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,040
And we all know that in a period
drama where everyone is white, 

660
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,720
one has to be blonde and one has
to be brunette. 

661
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,480
The rules of feminism and those 
of us would not even face 

662
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,000
blindness, but with just like a 
normal difficulty in 

663
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,960
discriminating faces. 
Just cannot watch the film 

664
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,280
because I'm like, who is John 
Malkovich in love with? 

665
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,680
I don't know you. 
Have no business being on this 

666
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,360
podcast. 
If you can't tell, Uma Thurman 

667
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,200
and Michelle Pfeiffer are part 
I'm sorry. 

668
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,520
I couldn't lie, to this day I 
cannot. 

669
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,240
One played Poison Ivy and one 
played Catwoman. 

670
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,320
The rules of feminism look, I 
need different hair colours and 

671
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:47,640
I need different costumes, I 
think. 

672
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:52,000
That's fair. 
Uma Thurman has huge tits, big 

673
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,440
boobs. 
You see in this film. 

674
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,280
Yeah, you see them? 
You do see them. 

675
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:58,800
Would we say huge? 
Yes. 

676
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,480
Are we saying huge tits? 
Yeah, they they were. 

677
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,720
They made me gasp. 
I guess you need to roll. 

678
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:07,640
Back the same. 
Really think about them. 

679
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,160
Yeah. 
I was just thinking because I 

680
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,600
think I just read that Uma 
Thurman didn't want to do tits 

681
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,120
out nudity. 
Right. 

682
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,400
So I think maybe I was 
moralizing as I was watching it.

683
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,600
So they made her do it, did 
they? 

684
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,040
Yeah, and she's 18 in this 
movie. 

685
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,320
It's not great. 
That's. 

686
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,520
Actually gross. 
I read that she said that she 

687
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:27,800
wouldn't do it again. 
Wow. 

688
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,280
And it was so unnecessary. 
Yeah, totally. 

689
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,240
Whereas crude intentions, way, 
way sexier film and the only 

690
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:40,120
nudity is Ryan Philippe's bum. 
You're right, feminism, which 

691
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,560
not only it's a man's nudity is 
also done tastefully. 

692
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,800
It's funny and it really, really
fits with the character because 

693
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,280
that's his technique. 
And as soon as we see the bum, 

694
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,280
we're like he's tricked her. 
He's sent her off to go and get 

695
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,800
changed and he's waited until 
she comes down and he's not yet 

696
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,640
put on his bathing suit. 
So it really, really works. 

697
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,440
Whereas Zuma, Thurman, it's just
like we're just going to need 

698
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:02,880
your tits out because you're 
hot. 

699
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,640
Yeah, you're so right. 
And it's tits out also when it's

700
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:12,080
like she doesn't have the worst.
No, no. 

701
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,640
Is that the worst? 
That's she's getting raped? 

702
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,120
Yeah, yeah, she's literally 
being raped. 

703
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,800
That is the worst. 
So not only is she is it against

704
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,240
her will in the movie, it's also
against her will in the, like, 

705
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,040
real world where that she's 
making this movie. 

706
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,000
Yeah, awful. 
That's gross. 

707
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,320
Yeah. 
That's not even like 

708
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,720
problematic, but I can see what 
they would do, no? 

709
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,640
There's no need for it. 
There's no need for it. 

710
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,360
And the fact that it's being 
done by John Malkovich, who's, 

711
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,320
you know, twice her age. 
Yeah. 

712
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:46,280
And so I spent the whole film 
being like miscast because one 

713
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,480
is shit and two, he's not. 
I don't think he's shit. 

714
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,480
We'll come back to it, but we 
will agree on the second part. 

715
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,800
And but then I I was like, none 
of these women would fall for 

716
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:58,840
him. 
But she did. 

717
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,360
Yeah, they had a relationship 
and it cost him his marriage. 

718
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,000
Uma Thurman and. 
No, sorry. 

719
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,520
Michelle Pfeiffer. 
Oh yeah, they had an affair on 

720
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,520
that and it ended his his 
relationship with his wife. 

721
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,320
Wow. 
Interesting. 

722
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,560
So, women, what are we doing? 
I don't fuck losers. 

723
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,720
Definitely he does not get any 
like gay man points unlike Ryan 

724
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:23,560
Philippe and that. 
But in that shot, I mean, it 

725
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,240
was. 
And he is the only man who has 

726
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:28,440
ever looked sexy in rimless 
glasses. 

727
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,600
Something changed with that, but
yeah, something shifted in the. 

728
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,080
Culture. 
Was that what to do? 

729
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,640
I think it was too late by then,
OK. 

730
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,680
But yeah, like that was seismic.
I don't think like has it been 

731
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,680
matched in since until like he 
did rivalry. 

732
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,760
I'm going to say that's like the
next most memorable but I can 

733
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,360
think of in the shower. 
Right. 

734
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,680
Have we had better gay wank bang
bombs in cinema? 

735
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,120
Between cruel intentions and 
heated rivalry. 

736
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,160
You don't get many men's bombs. 
No, you used to. 

737
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,520
I feel like in the 90s it was 
like more of a thing. 

738
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:05,760
I feel like. 
Who was it in? 

739
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,680
There's one I can remember in 
Tomb Raider, who she opposite in

740
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,080
Tomb Raider, I can't remember. 
I don't remember, but he gets 

741
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,480
out of the shower and you're 
like, oh, but it used to be the 

742
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,400
thing to do if you had a good 
butt in Hollywood, I feel. 

743
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,680
Or if you had a good double. 
That's true. 

744
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:22,120
Good point. 
I have rewinded it to be like. 

745
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,840
Is that a double? 
I think it could be Oh. 

746
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,640
Really. 
I think it could be because he's

747
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,680
just, he's so hot, but he's not 
like he's not built. 

748
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,120
And that's a Bill bum. 
It's a Bill bum, but the rest of

749
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,800
yeah, interesting. 
I it has never occurred to me to

750
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,760
think that isn't his butt and 
I'm going to just pretend. 

751
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,360
Listeners, let us know. 
But yeah, Valmont in Dangerous 

752
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,960
Liaisons, what I would say is 
you get the sense I'm. 

753
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,480
Looking it up, whether it's his 
bum, carry on. 

754
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,840
You do get a sense from that man
that he has fucked and he knows 

755
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,480
how to fuck and he's like, he's 
got a disgusting sexuality about

756
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,760
him that I I think is effective.
Now, I would agree with you that

757
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,160
he's not hot enough to be 
playing this character, but 

758
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,680
almost the fact that he's kind 
of not hot is, it almost gives 

759
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,560
it something a bit more for me. 
This is Bum. 

760
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,320
Okay, good. 
It gives it more because it's 

761
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,920
more gross. 
Yeah, there is this 

762
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:25,240
juxtaposition between this sort 
of much younger and much more 

763
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:30,000
kind of like rigidly conforming 
to beauty stereotypes ladies 

764
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,680
with with him who doesn't feel 
obliged to. 

765
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,400
Yes, agreed. 
But I don't find him sexy and 

766
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,000
charismatic. 
He doesn't seem to me like 

767
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:43,800
someone who is so brought up in 
that expectation of unequal 

768
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,960
treatment, whereas Ryan Philippe
does. 

769
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,280
He's just like, well, of course 
I'm going to get away with 

770
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,280
whatever I want. 
He doesn't seem like that. 

771
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,720
I think other actors who are 
also not regulation hotties 

772
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,480
could have played it like maybe 
like Jeremy Irons. 

773
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,200
OK, Yeah. 
Who could be sexy, but not 

774
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,280
necessarily that like regulation
hottie. 

775
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,520
Maybe even Alan Rickman. 
Right. 

776
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,760
Who played it in the the play 
that it's based on? 

777
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,840
Yeah, I think could have pulled 
it off more. 

778
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,560
Right. 
I see that he plays it like like

779
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,520
an Efsler. 
He seems so gay so. 

780
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,280
Gay. 
Like he's at one point he hisses

781
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,640
at Susie Kurtz. 
He does. 

782
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,520
He goes. 
I'm like you, Queen. 

783
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,200
He also doesn't play it remotely
period. 

784
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,280
And now I am OK with them doing 
just modern American accents 

785
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,520
because sometimes it's kind of 
weird when they use like an old 

786
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,240
British RP as a stand in for 
French or whatever it is. 

787
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,400
So I'm fine with that. 
But I did read that James 

788
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,840
Acheson, the costume designer, 
hated the whole thing because he

789
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,920
made these exquisite costumes. 
And then he said the answers 

790
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,160
were not interested in the 
costumes, and they did not look 

791
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:55,520
it up. 
And he said, specifically, 

792
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,560
Malkovich would have had a 
dancing master from age of 6, 

793
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,440
but Malkovich just slouched in 
all of these costumes. 

794
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,160
So he's like buttoned into these
courses and they're all just 

795
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,840
rippled and creased and whatever
because he's just sitting, you 

796
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:07,920
know, like this. 
Right. 

797
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,960
And that's how he played it. 
And, I mean, I didn't buy it. 

798
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,280
I wanted him to have a grace. 
Yeah. 

799
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see that. 
And that is something I would 

800
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,000
say that Ryan Phillippe does 
have those. 

801
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,760
Yeah. 
What I find weird about Cruel 

802
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:30,040
Intentions, I think that the age
thing is very strange, that all 

803
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,440
of these people are supposed to 
be 17 and Cecile is 15. 

804
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,160
Eek. 
Like no one is having good sex 

805
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:43,080
at 17, let alone being like some
kind of master seduct seductor. 

806
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:44,880
Yeah. 
Master seducer. 

807
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,160
Seducer. 
Seducer. 

808
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,440
Yeah. 
Seducer and seductress, yeah. 

809
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,040
Seduces, MO. 
One who seduces, Yeah, it's just

810
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,200
not, it's not believable, but 
whatever they're. 

811
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,000
They're all. 
Actually 25. 

812
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,040
So it's fun. 
In his review said it used to be

813
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:07,480
that teenagers went to like R 
rated movies to watch adults 

814
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,160
have sex and now adults go to 
our rated movies towards 

815
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,920
teenagers have sex, which is 
very true. 

816
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,520
It's also, it's all very wild 
things, isn't it? 

817
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,760
Again, it's like you've got 
people pushing 30 playing high 

818
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,520
school like. 
I think we just have to accept 

819
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,760
that that's how it is, yeah, 
Teenagers can't act. 

820
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,400
Quite camp, yeah. 
Yeah. 

821
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,720
And also, I don't want to see a 
teen in that role. 

822
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,520
I don't. 
Not the Selma Blair role. 

823
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,400
No, then we're getting very 
notes on a scandal. 

824
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,080
Which is on the list. 
Yeah, it's, well, it's just been

825
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:37,440
covered. 
Oh. 

826
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,280
Have you just done it? 
Yeah, have you? 

827
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:40,960
Understood it. 
It came out today OK. 

828
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:42,840
I'm going to listen to that one,
yeah. 

829
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:49,360
OK, what else? 
So are we saying performances? 

830
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:54,600
We compared Glenn and Sarah. 
Did we actually I. 

831
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,560
Don't think we finished the job.
No, you're right. 

832
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,520
We didn't. 
You didn't. 

833
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,280
We didn't. 
You're just not allowed to not 

834
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,800
give it to Glenn. 
Yeah, exactly. 

835
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,280
And also, it's illegal. 
It's Sarah Michelle Gellar's 

836
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:10,680
character might be a bit more 
camp, but Glenn, like she's just

837
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:16,640
giving that predatory eagle 
eyed, like she's about to devour

838
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,520
you in every scene. 
You know that? 

839
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,320
What's that meme of her on the 
red carpet? 

840
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,120
I can't remember who she's 
looking at but she's like. 

841
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,880
Oh yeah, what is this? 
This is where she perfected that

842
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,760
look. 
It is. 

843
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,360
It's a look of desire and joy, 
but with hidden intention. 

844
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,560
So good. 
It's so good and she just spends

845
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,000
the whole movie doing that and 
it's so fabulous to watch. 

846
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,600
She does. 
You're right, she's given more 

847
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,320
to do. 
But even in the scenes where 

848
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,280
she's probably given the same 
amount to do, she is doing more 

849
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,080
There's. 
So many, I mean, they both have 

850
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,560
bits where they like, turn away 
from the person they've just 

851
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,040
been talking to and like roll 
their eyes or whatever. 

852
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,520
But like, you want to watch 
Glenn Close to that? 

853
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,720
Like that's what she was born, 
born to do. 

854
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:57,440
Are there bits where she's doing
too much? 

855
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,640
No, no, OK. 
Good to know guy, just checking.

856
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,760
It's wonderful. 
Her monologue about like, yeah, 

857
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,360
why she is who she is is 
fabulous. 

858
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:13,160
I've always known I was born to 
dominate your sex and avenge my 

859
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:14,720
own. 
When they have their 

860
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:18,240
confrontation and she says war, 
Oh my God. 

861
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:27,240
All right, war again. 
Something shifted in the 

862
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:28,240
culture. 
I'd say do. 

863
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,000
You know what? 
I think there were moments where

864
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,320
she was doing too much. 
Fine. 

865
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,240
For example, she gets her big 
feminist speech and she's got a 

866
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,840
line that is something like, 
well, I'll tell you exactly what

867
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,440
the line is. 
When I came out in society, I 

868
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,320
was 15, I already knew that the 
role that I was condemned to, 

869
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,160
namely to keep quiet and do what
I was told, gave me the perfect 

870
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,200
opportunity to listen and learn 
not to what people told me, 

871
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,920
which naturally was of no 
interest, but to what it was 

872
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,680
they were trying to hide. 
And the way she plays it is, it 

873
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,280
gave me the perfect opportunity 
to listen and learn not to what 

874
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,000
people told me, which naturally 
was of no interest, but rather 

875
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,080
to what they were trying to 
hide. 

876
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,360
I felt she cringed a bit when 
she did that. 

877
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,080
OK, yeah, actually I'm not sure 
if I cringed, but yeah, it 

878
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:15,760
didn't work. 
Yeah, I thought that. 

879
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,800
And there weren't moments like 
that. 

880
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:23,880
Whereas Sarah Michella, Sarah 
Michella she she risked less, 

881
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,080
but she, she felt less. 
It was, you know, everything she

882
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,600
tried to do, she hit. 
So I don't know. 

883
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,480
Swings and roundabouts. 
Well, which witch's camper to go

884
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,000
hard and fail? 
All right, fuck you, Sarah. 

885
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:45,800
Do more. 
She does grind on him as someone

886
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:51,680
said Sunnyside up. 
So nice Which? 

887
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,280
Is so fabulous. 
Yeah, she's really going to 

888
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,880
town. 
Work that back. 

889
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,080
It's really nice. 
Yeah, OK. 

890
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,560
So should we do John and Ryan? 
Oh, we've already done John and.

891
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,640
Ryan yeah, we're yeah, that's 
enough time for the men. 

892
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,920
Yeah. 
Selma Blair and and Uma. 

893
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:18,520
Yeah. 
I hated Selma Blair on this 

894
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:19,320
rewatch. 
Did. 

895
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,560
You. 
Not stand it. 

896
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,840
Because she's playing a baby. 
Because she's playing a baby and

897
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,280
it's just so annoying. 
And I know it's meant to be kind

898
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,680
of funny and sometimes I guess 
it is kind of funny, but for the

899
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,320
most part, I was like, this is 
just so irritating. 

900
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,680
It's like watching someone do 
baby improv. 

901
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:43,000
You know you're a baby. 
I'm so glad I've never had to 

902
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,920
experience one. 
Do baby improv. 

903
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,080
Do you know what You're right, 
she's doing. 

904
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,640
She's doing a lot of only one 
thing, which is play about 6 

905
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,520
years old, which is kind of a 
weird choice. 

906
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,800
Yeah, which which kind of makes 
it all weirder, but also in a 

907
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,760
way less weird because at least 
she can be petulant, which is 

908
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,160
not quite agency, but it's 
something. 

909
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:07,920
True. 
Whereas Uma has nothing. 

910
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,960
She's got nothing. 
It is a nothing role. 

911
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,680
It's a nothing role and she does
nothing with it. 

912
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,120
She does nothing with it, it's 
true. 

913
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,440
And that poor character. 
I think she ends up back in a 

914
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,920
convent. 
She gets really fucking trashed 

915
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,400
in this movie. 
Like for no real reason. 

916
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:24,880
But that is what happens in the 
book. 

917
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,600
To be fair, Dangerous Liaisons 
is like a pretty faithful return

918
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,160
of the book, right? 
So the darkest scenes in both 

919
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,640
are if you're being kind, the 
seduction, if you're being 

920
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:42,680
unkind, the rape of Cecile. 
And they try and soften it in 

921
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:47,400
Cruel Intentions by having her 
having Summer Blair's character 

922
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,200
get really into it. 
It's so weird that the 

923
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,640
difference in telling is not 
actually about the difference 

924
00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:00,240
between 1760 and 1999. 
It's the difference between 1989

925
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:01,760
and 1999. 
It's crazy. 

926
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,240
And then again, looking at it 
from this perspective, 20 years 

927
00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:08,080
after that, it's like, wow, 
she's changed. 

928
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,000
Yeah. 
Right, kind of can't be bothered

929
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,720
to talk about Annette slash 
Torvell because it's it's also a

930
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:16,040
bit of a nothing character 
unless there's anything you 

931
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:21,160
specifically want to say. 
No, but casting wise, quite fun 

932
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,880
that they wanted Katie Holmes, 
the good intentions. 

933
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,760
But Ryan Philippe was like, 
could you possibly have my 

934
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,200
girlfriend instead? 
And so they got Reese 

935
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,440
Witherspoon in and then she said
no. 

936
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,600
And Cumble, what's his first 
name? 

937
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,440
Roger. 
Roger Kumble. 

938
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,600
He was his first film. 
And he planned to make the whole

939
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,000
thing on like a £1 million 
budget. 

940
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,160
She said no, and he apparently 
in like, took her for a drink or

941
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,360
whatever and got on his knees 
and begged her to do it. 

942
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,280
Oh, wow. 
And she was like, well, OK, I'll

943
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,480
rewrite it. 
Yeah, I'm glad it got a bit of 

944
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,400
love and attention, that 
character, because Michelle 

945
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,480
Pfeiffer's character is just 
hard to watch. 

946
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:02,200
She got a BAFTA. 
Wow. 

947
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,400
She got BAFTA for best 
supporting actress. 

948
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,960
I'm not saying she's necessarily
bad in the movie, I'm saying the

949
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,120
character is just criminally 
underwritten. 

950
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,880
I'm. 
Just not sure it's a part that 

951
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,400
you can have a BAFTA. 
Full I kind of agree. 

952
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,320
Just, you know, No, no, no, no, 
I'm just, I'm just a delicate 

953
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,160
damsel. 
Not here. 

954
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,280
Yeah, in 1989 you get a BAFTA. 
But that damsel stuff work is 

955
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,080
puerile and under dramatized. 
How about the gay stuff? 

956
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,080
So we've got the lesbian kiss. 
Which is phenomenal high point 

957
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:34,680
of the movie. 
I think it holds up. 

958
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,880
That bit of spittle, iconic at 
the time. 

959
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:45,000
You've got Sarah Michelle Gellar
in her all black Audrey Hepburn 

960
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:50,760
bug eyed specs and little slinky
number Selma Blair in her preppy

961
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,360
Manhattan jumper type vibe in a 
sort of light blue. 

962
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,440
They're opposites where they 
come to get on the chemistry. 

963
00:51:58,680 --> 00:51:59,760
Gorgeous. 
Yeah, it's great. 

964
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,200
I wish there had been more tones
of lesbianism to Sarah 

965
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,000
Michelle's characters, Sarah 
Michelle characters, Gellar, 

966
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,960
because it is a bit like, why is
this happening? 

967
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,680
But you know, it was. 
I know why it happened in the 

968
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:21,520
movie because it needed, it was 
titillating for male audiences. 

969
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,080
And it's just about pushing the 
envelope and it's like trying to

970
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,080
see what they can get away with.
It'd be cool if you're like, 

971
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:34,680
maybe she's like, maybe her 
repressed lesbianism is the 

972
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,800
reason she's like this. 
It'll be fun to just add in a 

973
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,680
suggestion, wouldn't it? 
Or just like make her more 

974
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,680
explicitly by in some other 
regard in the movie, but because

975
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,240
it just kind of comes out of 
nowhere. 

976
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,840
Yeah, it does. 
I also think that the really 

977
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:56,200
intense homophobia is, I mean, 
actually really just quite oak 

978
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:01,440
standard for 1999, I think, but 
maybe not quite in keeping with 

979
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,840
the level of sophistication, 
which we've already said is 

980
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,560
really artificial for those 
characters. 

981
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:10,840
But they're just so worldly and 
sophisticated that like the fact

982
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,920
that he has a journal and she 
says, could you be more queer 

983
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,120
like, well, I think you she 
probably wouldn't think that. 

984
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:24,040
Do you think the movie is 
homophobic or is it painting the

985
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,840
characters to be homophobic and 
therefore problematic because in

986
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,120
this? 
No, the movie's gay. 

987
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,240
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't 
it? 

988
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:37,680
Ryan's character is kind of cool
with gay people, but he's like, 

989
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:42,680
he uses that as another, like, 
lever towards his own advantage.

990
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:43,960
But he's got a gay friend and he
doesn't. 

991
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,200
He's not at all judgmental about
him being gay. 

992
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,880
He just knows that like they can
use it to manipulate the closet 

993
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,120
case. 
You're right. 

994
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:55,280
He's not. 
Sarah, a little bit more judgy 

995
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:56,320
about the gays. 
Yeah. 

996
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,240
Ryan bit more down with things, 
which is not how you would 

997
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:01,280
expect things to go gender wise.
Yeah. 

998
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,120
So, yeah. 
But I would have Roger Cumble 

999
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:05,480
because he wrote it as well. 
Is he? 

1000
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,480
Is he a gay? 
I don't think he's gay. 

1001
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,080
Because it gives Big gay. 
Yeah, you're right, it does. 

1002
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,840
I've watched some like behind 
the scenes interviews and stuff.

1003
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,400
He's not giving gay. 
OK, so we find out. 

1004
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,000
Interesting. 
I think it kind of matters 

1005
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,040
actually. 
Apparently, he was originally 

1006
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,200
planning to just make it as a 
little B movie for like less 

1007
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,120
than a million. 
And then it just sort of picked 

1008
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:32,240
up some interest when a 
producer, the producer of I Know

1009
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:35,760
What You Did Last Summer, who 
had just worked with Sarah 

1010
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,200
Michelle Gellar and Ryan 
Philippe, sort of introduced 

1011
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,480
them. 
And suddenly it was like, OK, 

1012
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:45,760
this is going to be a way bigger
thing, but still not big budget 

1013
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,400
10 million. 
Yeah, no small. 

1014
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:52,600
And a million of that went on. 
Bittersweet Symphony isn't that 

1015
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,920
crazy? 
Yeah, he's not gay, by the way. 

1016
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:55,840
He's not gay. 
Not gay. 

1017
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,080
Oh, you mean the Gays Not the 
Gays soundtrack? 

1018
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:06,920
Oh, just unspeakably cruel 
intentions when stunning from 

1019
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,360
the like the original 
compositions that just does that

1020
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:13,600
really joyful, silly tension, 
plunky, plunky stuff. 

1021
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,320
And then the big hitting 
numbers, the like. 

1022
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,600
I would never have thought that 
you should pay £1,000,000 for 

1023
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,520
Bittersweet Symphony, but it's 
the perfect song. 

1024
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,520
Yeah, I guess it was probably 
already a hit. 

1025
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,480
But like that, they also owe so 
much to this movie. 

1026
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:30,840
It's just like it was a hit. 
Then but it wouldn't have 

1027
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,520
survived till now, no. 
They've cashed out on that, got 

1028
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,240
a million for it as well. 
Yeah, I mean, Placebo, Skunk and

1029
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:41,080
Nancy. 
It's just like a high point of 

1030
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:44,600
sexy 90s. 
That super melodramatic Counting

1031
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,720
Crows song. 
Colour blind Oh. 

1032
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:52,240
Oh for the the emotional crooks 
where they're separated. 

1033
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,840
Oh. 
I was giggling. 

1034
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,240
It was just such teen melodrama.
That's. 

1035
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:00,920
Not it's like it's like watching
just a really elevated version 

1036
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:02,800
of one of those teen dramas like
The OC. 

1037
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,680
It's so the OC. 
It's very also post Scream with 

1038
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:11,000
the like the overwrought 
dialogue. 

1039
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,720
Dawson's Creek like teens. 
They don't sound like that and 

1040
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:18,840
aren't 25 but. 
That, but good jokes, yeah. 

1041
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,080
Really good jokes throughout. 
Yeah. 

1042
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:29,000
Doctor King is my favorite. 
Christine Baranski saying I took

1043
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,520
you in off the streets and he's 
like, I live at Easton 49. 

1044
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:38,080
Yeah, you can put it anywhere. 
It's just, it's so quotable. 

1045
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,120
It's a film, it really is 
Factors. 

1046
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,440
Maybe it's time to just say it. 
But yeah, Dangerous Liaisons, 

1047
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,400
I'm sorry, but I got bored. 
It was boring. 

1048
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:53,040
I got bored and and I there's no
real excuse for that when you've

1049
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:58,360
got a lot of really fab women 
being bad. 

1050
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,480
And the writing wasn't 
beautiful. 

1051
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,480
Like, of course the Rising is 
not going to be quippy and short

1052
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,880
and snappy and witty and quite 
in the same Cruel Intentions 

1053
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:13,760
way, but it can be droll and 
witty and erudite and, you know,

1054
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:20,960
funny and amusing and beautiful 
imagery in the way that I think 

1055
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,880
I've read some of the book. 
And to be fair, the book, it 

1056
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,440
kind of isn't, right. 
It's not that beautiful. 

1057
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:27,680
You would have to get to write 
that. 

1058
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:33,040
But, you know, we need some sort
of Jane Austen witty repartee. 

1059
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,920
Yeah. 
We don't really have it. 

1060
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,840
And yet boring, like getting 
bored is just such a cardinal 

1061
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:39,920
sin. 
And I I I. 

1062
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,080
It's the opposite of camp. 
Yeah, I and I think for all of 

1063
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,520
Cruel Intentions, kind of I'd 
say the the stuff that doesn't 

1064
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,240
hold up, that's a bit 
problematic. 

1065
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,520
You're not bored watching it. 
You are not. 

1066
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:51,920
Bored. 
It goes down easy. 

1067
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,320
Yeah, for a movie that's about 
sex and sex games. 

1068
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,560
Dangerous Liaisons. 
It's not sexy enough. 

1069
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:00,440
It's. 
Not sexy. 

1070
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,320
It's not sexy and you can't even
blame the corsets because those 

1071
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,440
come off unnecessarily. 
You don't need boobs to come out

1072
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,840
for it to be sexy. 
You can have so much sexiness in

1073
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,120
corsets. 
Yeah, cruel attention is just 

1074
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,800
it's much hornier and it's 
sexier. 

1075
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,840
It's so sexy. 
You know, she gives him blue 

1076
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:25,960
balls, which is very, very sexy.
It's yeah, yeah. 

1077
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,640
It's, it's disappointing 
interesting little titbits about

1078
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,560
the production of Dangerous 
Liaisons. 

1079
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,080
They they kind of like it all 
moved so quickly and other 

1080
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,560
people were ousted because Jane 
Fonda was trying to buy the 

1081
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:45,280
rights and she would have played
Glenn Close, bought Glenn Close 

1082
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,240
was due to replace Lindsay 
Duncan in the play version of 

1083
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:49,640
it. 
But then the play closed. 

1084
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,600
But because she already then had
an in with Christopher Hampton, 

1085
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:57,960
who wrote the play and was then 
to write the the film, she was 

1086
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,880
kind of a shoo in. 
So Jane Fonda for all of her 

1087
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,120
money that she was putting into 
it, was asked to it. 

1088
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,560
How do you think Jane Fonda 
would have been great? 

1089
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,120
It would have been such a 
different movie, it's hard to 

1090
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:15,880
picture her as an icy bitch. 
She'd have done sexy so well. 

1091
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,840
Sure. 
Would she have done icy? 

1092
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,400
I bet she could have done icy. 
I'd love to see it. 

1093
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,200
Yeah, I'd love to see it, yeah. 
It's one of those roles you kind

1094
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:25,800
of look like. 
I'd like to see anyone do that. 

1095
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,000
It's like how I feel about 
Catwoman. 

1096
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:28,760
Yeah, it's. 
Just a great. 

1097
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,560
Role yeah, let them let anyone 
have a go out like let let 1000 

1098
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:38,120
flowers bloom. 
Yeah, yeah, I want every major 

1099
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,400
actress to have a go at this 
particular role. 

1100
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:44,680
At least I I don't want to watch
this movie again, so have a go 

1101
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:48,080
at maybe the main speech. 
Yeah, or two and then or. 

1102
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:49,640
Let's have another remake. 
It's time. 

1103
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,840
It can be in space. 
I'm in costume. 

1104
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,000
Compare the 2. 
Yeah, it's apples and oranges, 

1105
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:57,960
and they're both, they're, 
they're fat, they're both 

1106
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,160
fabulous. 
They're kind of incomparable. 

1107
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:04,600
The it's just, what do you want 
to look at? 

1108
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:08,320
But if you're a costume geek, I 
mean, you can't beat Dangerous 

1109
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,800
Liaisons. 
It won the Oscar for it, totally

1110
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,640
justifiably. 
I'm going to just say it. 

1111
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,520
It's beautiful gowns. 
Great gowns, beautiful gowns. 

1112
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,880
The jewellery as well, like the 
hair, the everything, it's 

1113
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,840
exquisite. 
And that opening scene, which is

1114
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,120
arguably the best scene in it, 
where it's just them being 

1115
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,920
gotten up in their toilet, Glenn
Close looking in the mirror, and

1116
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,320
she looks in the mirror with 
such a pride that I think I've 

1117
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,640
only ever seen once before. 
And it was at Wilderness 

1118
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:45,160
Festival when you were doing 
your face and you did an 

1119
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:49,560
admittedly exquisite face in 
like 30 minutes or something. 

1120
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,120
And then as you'd completed it, 
you just said I'm really good at

1121
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,560
drag. 
And I haven't seen that since 

1122
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,360
until I watched Glenn Close in 
that mirror. 

1123
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:00,920
Somebody lied to her several 
times. 

1124
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:06,280
I've I've got a habit of doing 
and saying that. 

1125
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:08,840
There's that common thing, and 
that's really fun. 

1126
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,320
You're not the first person. 
Who's That's really fun, but. 

1127
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:14,720
There's just something that 
takes over and like, you know 

1128
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,240
what? 
You're going to spend a bunch of

1129
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,920
time making yourself look a 
certain way. 

1130
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:20,440
You might as well enjoy the 
result. 

1131
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,680
When those lashes go on, you 
feel things. 

1132
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,160
You do. 
And told her that she was fly 

1133
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,800
hot and sexy. 
You feel like Glenn Close and 

1134
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,000
you're about to swoop down and 
snatch up a little baby bird. 

1135
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:36,080
And what is it? 
When a woman strikes another 

1136
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,360
woman? 
She rarely misses, and it's 

1137
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:43,920
invariably fatal. 
Yeah, that opening scene is it's

1138
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,960
just gorgeous. 
And the every single gown in 

1139
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:50,120
that movie looks like it took 
weeks and there's I kept looking

1140
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,280
at the earrings. 
It's like God, beautiful 

1141
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,760
jewelry. 
I read a sort of a costume EA do

1142
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,880
like a critique of it and yeah, 
everything was like really on 

1143
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:06,400
point historically, except that 
they'd chosen to go 1760s 

1144
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:10,080
instead of 1780s and 90s when 
the book was actually released 

1145
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:15,760
and set because 1780s and 90s 
was the sort of big encroyable 

1146
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,040
look of like Marie and 
Antoinette. 

1147
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,280
They all have had like big sort 
of ships in their hair. 

1148
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:22,040
OK. 
And like. 

1149
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,840
It's way too much. 
Yeah, it would have been hard to

1150
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,720
have the close-ups right of her 
in a. 

1151
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,240
It. 
Would have been a different 

1152
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,640
vibe. 
Right, like when the pennies got

1153
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,280
so big that no one could get 
through a door. 

1154
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,480
Exactly. 
We need to see faces, yeah. 

1155
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:42,960
Fair. 
And then Cruel Intentions. 

1156
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:48,040
Yeah, it's just nailing late 90s
cool, isn't it? 

1157
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:52,280
Yeah, it looks great. 
Yeah, just like Upper East Side 

1158
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:59,560
of expensive fitted dark, a lot 
of Prada with some, you know, 

1159
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,040
preppy jumpers and what have 
you. 

1160
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:05,040
But the main 2 are mostly like 
Sarah Michelle Gellar in that 

1161
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,800
bustier and then the fitted 
Prada suit. 

1162
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,520
It's hot. 
It's great and she's also got a 

1163
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,120
really gorgeous like blue 
metallic miniskirt at one point 

1164
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,640
with like a sheer top. 
That's so 90, it's so good. 

1165
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,840
Metallic miniskirt so 90s so 
great. 

1166
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:23,160
Can't be beat. 
Nice dress. 

1167
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:28,560
Thanks, it's a Versace. 
My like overall thoughts which I

1168
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,960
had written down was that and 
I'm not sure I even I'm not sure

1169
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,200
I agree with this anymore now 
that we've talked about it a bit

1170
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,400
more, but that Dangerous 
Liaisons is a better movie but 

1171
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,720
Cruel Intentions is a funner 
movie. 

1172
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:41,160
Nope. 
No evident. 

1173
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:45,240
Yeah, Dangerous Liaisons is 
boring. 

1174
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,440
Maybe I'm just being contrary 
because it got 7 Oscar 

1175
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,160
nominations and it's seen 
definitively as just a great 

1176
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:52,560
movie. 
Do you think, though, if you 

1177
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,120
were just like a normal adult 
who did not see Cruel Intentions

1178
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,480
as a teen, yeah, you would watch
it. 

1179
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,800
And I think that's a good movie.
I would say I don't have access 

1180
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:06,040
to that because I loved it and 
it was a sexual awakening. 

1181
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,480
I think you'd have to be like 
this is stupid because it is. 

1182
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:11,800
Stupid. 
The thing is, my memory is so 

1183
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:16,000
bad that every experience I have
I come out entirely fresh. 

1184
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,480
So I watched this movie having 
not watched it for a while, 

1185
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:21,920
being like Oh my God I cannot 
believe how good this is. 

1186
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,320
And maybe there is the joy of it
unlocking memories. 

1187
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,040
Obviously I get that, but I 
don't. 

1188
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,680
No, I think it's good. 
I think it's a good script. 

1189
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,680
What about all that fucking 
melodrama like his redemption 

1190
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,960
storyline, him walking around 
the streets to fucking Counting 

1191
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,640
Crows like beating his chest. 
It's dumb. 

1192
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,840
OK, it's dumb. 
It's. 

1193
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:49,000
Dumb. 
But then also, maybe I love a 

1194
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,720
bit of melodrama. 
I really enjoy it when she comes

1195
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,160
up the escalator from the subway
and he's at the top and it's 

1196
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,840
like, how did he got the train 
walk faster than the train? 

1197
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:05,840
But I enjoy it. 
I'd like a bit of melodrama to 

1198
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,120
an exquisite soundtrack. 
What can I say? 

1199
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,840
I'm not saying it's bad, I think
it's a great example of of a 

1200
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:18,240
teen movie, but like I think 
some of it is very teen movie. 

1201
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:19,760
Right. 
OK. 

1202
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,960
Are you suggesting that I have 
to accept that some of my tastes

1203
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,960
may be a little bit low? 
Brown, you're not young. 

1204
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:29,760
Should we do Lizers and 
Merrills? 

1205
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,320
Let's do it. 
OK, so Merrills, what are you 

1206
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,080
going to give to dangerous? 
I think I'm going to give it 

1207
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:42,160
six, yeah, maybe 7. 
Yeah, I am. 

1208
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:50,120
No, I, I deserve to have fun. 
No one's fun anymore. 

1209
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,520
I'm giving it 5. 
Whatever happened to fun? 

1210
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,600
OK, what about cruel intentions 
for Merrill's? 

1211
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,240
People in the present are just 
better than people in the past. 

1212
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,840
And the present is 1999. 
We are. 

1213
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:15,760
That's where we are now. 
So Merrill's I can't hate. 

1214
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:21,480
What's going on? 
This is the last time you'll see

1215
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,920
me. 
I'm giving it 5. 

1216
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:25,040
Wow. 
OK. 

1217
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,200
All right. 
You went low because I went 

1218
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,680
high. 
No, no, I was going to give it a

1219
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,120
5. 
It's like, it's like wild 

1220
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:35,760
things. 
Right, but it's the sexiest teen

1221
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,200
movie. 
I don't know, Wild Things is 

1222
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,520
pretty sexy. 
OK this is what I have to just 

1223
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:40,560
add me. 
I haven't seen Wild. 

1224
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,760
Things, but it's I'll. 
Put it on my list. 

1225
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:47,440
It's trash but like 
entertaining. 

1226
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:52,360
It is trash but unfortunately I 
don't fuck losers. 

1227
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:57,560
OK, let's talk about Liza's. 
So how camp are these movies 

1228
01:06:58,040 --> 01:06:59,440
starting with Dangerous 
Liaisons? 

1229
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:03,600
It's got some camp highlights. 
Yes, I think actually Michelle 

1230
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:05,160
Pfeiffer dying at the end is 
quite camp. 

1231
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,400
And I love the ending of like 
Glenn smashing up the and the 

1232
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:17,000
mirror and the and the her her 
ruin is super camp to me. 

1233
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:21,320
But I'd say overall, it's not 
the campus movie and I'm going 

1234
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,160
to give it a four. 
Yeah, I was thinking 4 as well. 

1235
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,080
That's so upsetting. 
Yeah, OK. 

1236
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:29,120
We're agreed. 
OK, cruel intentions. 

1237
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:32,520
A little bit camper. 
Much camper, it's not my campus.

1238
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,560
No, because it doesn't have any 
unintentional camp. 

1239
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,760
It's not big crazy swings. 
It's not weird. 

1240
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:43,840
Yeah, there is some queer joy 
also quite a lot of straight 

1241
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:45,520
joy. 
Like it's, it's doing what it's 

1242
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,400
trying to do and it's doing it 
in a mainstream way. 

1243
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,720
But it is. 
It's genuinely funny, genuinely 

1244
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,080
sexy. 
Yeah, it's not it's there's no 

1245
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,520
underdog flop, is there? 
We're not reclaiming something 

1246
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,400
here. 
So I don't think I I want to, 

1247
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,640
but I don't think I can go more 
than six. 

1248
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:03,560
Right. 
I think I'm going to go 6. 

1249
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:05,040
I agree. 
Yeah, I agree. 

1250
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,200
OK, good. 
So I've I've gone rogue on the 

1251
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:13,480
Merrills, but at least we've 
found common ground. 

1252
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,720
Taste is subjective, but camp 
isn't. 

1253
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,560
OK, yeah, I like that. 
Camp is absolute and we are the 

1254
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,040
arbiters. 
Right here. 

1255
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:26,000
But that does mean that 
congratulations, Cruel 

1256
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,080
Intentions. 
You are camper. 

1257
01:08:28,359 --> 01:08:33,680
You've you've won this round. 
Jesus loves winners and also in 

1258
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:38,359
terms of legacy, it's sort of 
has it had like multiple spin 

1259
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:39,880
offs. 
You don't mean no one's seen 

1260
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:40,560
them. 
Why would you? 

1261
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,120
But it's had a cruel intentions 
too. 

1262
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:49,560
It's had he's had ATV show that 
got aborted and. 

1263
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:51,720
Then another one. 
Now he's had one that didn't get

1264
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:53,760
aborted that apparently is 
terrible. 

1265
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:55,279
I think it got cancelled after 
one season. 

1266
01:08:55,359 --> 01:08:56,600
OK. 
Have you seen any of it? 

1267
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,520
No. 
OK, I should watch a little bit.

1268
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:00,600
I'm curious. 
I've heard it's awful. 

1269
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:02,120
Yeah, which? 
Sounds like no redeeming 

1270
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,200
features, right? 
He's had a stage musical. 

1271
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:07,600
I think that's it. 
Yeah, that's a lot. 

1272
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:11,080
That's a lot. 
I mean, arguably it's all Delay 

1273
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:15,439
Liaison Dangerous's legacy. 
They were all from in that 

1274
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,319
lineage, but I think Cruel 
Intentions is the one that like 

1275
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,479
planted its flag and everything 
else since it's been a reference

1276
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,479
to that media. 
Although I don't know whether 

1277
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,520
you can quite make such a bold 
claim to about a film that's 

1278
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:35,000
survived A miraculous 25 years 
when the dangerous but Liaison 

1279
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:38,160
Dangerous has survived like, 
what, 250? 

1280
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:41,399
It's doing all right. 
It's doing pretty good. 

1281
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,200
All right, Well done. 
Something Lacrosse, whatever 

1282
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,800
your name is, Mr. Lacrosse. 
Thanks for being here, Sue. 

1283
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:51,680
Thank you so much for having me 
in this grand gorgeous studio. 

1284
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:55,560
What luxury? 
Yeah, we're off now to film our 

1285
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,760
porn parody of Cruel Intentions.
Here we go. 

1286
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:01,520
Here we go. 
We got this. 

1287
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,680
Drool. 
Penetrations. 

1288
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:08,440
OK, we've got it. 
We've got it, Yeah. 

1289
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,040
Bye. 
Get away from her. 

1290
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:11,720
You. 
Bitch. 

1291
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,640
Classic. 
He was in the Amazon in final 

1292
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:20,760
when she was researching spiders
right before she died, no? 

1293
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:27,680
Hannah thought you've got a 
prostitute or don't get it.