Welcome to Be on Sunday, a podcast that is an extension of
the preaching ministry here at Leemington EMC.
I am Pastor Jonah Chitty and I'm joined by Joe.
Joe. Hey, Joe.
Hey, how's it going? I'm good.
How are you? I'm good.
I was talking to my dad the other day.
He said he didn't care for our dad jokes.
He said it. Yeah, he said they were just.
He said he didn't get them. I'm like, yeah, that's that's
kind of the point. The only person that thinks
they're funny is the person who says them.
For us. So that's I'm we just have to
step our game. I know.
I think that's all. We just need better jokes.
I don't know if we have any today, but maybe we'll have to
come up with that. Well, I mean they were ChatGPT
and about Nehemiah, so we were a little narrowly.
Focused I I did think my Napoleon 1 was pretty good it.
It was good. But it came out later in the
show, and it wasn't, it wasn't an appropriate time for it.
You guys were talking about something serious, and I just
talked about Napoleon tearing bones apart.
Anyway, yeah, So we hit Nehemiah Chapter 3 on Sunday.
Pastor Jake preached a sermon called.
The fruits of godly leadership. The fruits of godly leadership.
You want to give us a rundown? Yeah, yeah.
So I mean this chapter, it was a longer chapter. 25 verses or
something. It's in the 30s, thirty 232
verses and it was a big chunk and it made the most sense to
keep it together because it's it's, it just flows all, it's
just a lot of repetition. Has some repeated parts.
Yeah. So there's a lot of the same
things repeated, different groups of people that are
beginning to rebuild. And it's the beginning of the
rebuilding of the work, which is super exciting because here
we've talked a lot about the vision.
We've talked a lot about how, you know, God planted this
vision in Nehemiah's mind and the prayer and all the effort
and all the dominoes that needed to fall for Nehemiah to go to
Jerusalem. And, and then even like, well,
how's he going to present it to the people so that they want to
do it And then they do. And now it's like, you know,
sort of like Jake mentioned on Sunday that now the shovel hits
the ground and it's like, now it's exciting.
It's like everybody's working and all sorts of different
people and everybody's getting involved and beginning to help
with the work. And so it's very exciting,
right? I mean, I can just imagine like
the drone, a drone flying around and capturing all of this video
of. Oh, that would be cool, wouldn't
it? These people working on
different parts of the wall and, and working hard and, and
working together and, but working in different parts and,
you know, people who people who weren't, that's not what they
would have done or that's not what they would have been
skilled at or had been trained in, But everybody's helping.
And that was the the most pressing task for them to be
working on. And so it's just really neat.
And so some of the points that had five points to Jake had five
points in a sermon this week. And the first one was that the
community built the wall. So to just emphasizing that it
was, it was, you know, the group of people that wasn't like, oh,
they hired it out to a contractor.
But it's like they all, they all built it together #2 was the
wall was built by volunteers. And so again, just emphasizing
that point that it's like these people were just were there, but
donating their time and helping and serving #3 was that the
building of the wall included different tasks.
And, and so there was a few different things going on,
right? Like the setting of the
foundation and the wall and the gates and the bars and, and, you
know, different, different things along the wall that that
needed to be repaired. And so there's different things
going on there. Number four people of various
trades built the wall. And so different again, just
sort of everybody sort of pitching in, right?
Like Goldsmiths, perfumers and, and the leaders and the priests
and everybody's that's not normally what they do, but
that's what they're doing now because it's the most important
thing. And among those people, his, his
point #5 is that women helped in rebuilding the wall.
And so again, just emphasizing that point that literally
everybody is, is working. And, and you can imagine, you
know, it doesn't say this specifically, but you can
imagine it's like, well, if dad is there and mom is there, then
the kids are probably running around helping and, and a little
bit every, which maybe that's taking it too far because I know
at some point there's going to be real danger with these
enemies that come around. And so maybe that's true, but
you may, you get the feeling that it's like they're involved
to some degree, right? Like.
The whole community was, yeah, like everybody that was there
and people from far off right, like the, the people of Tacoa
came, the men of Tacoa came and we helped and they were, they
weren't far, far off, but they were.
I just read some that there was, they were like 11 miles away.
So like their, their community was far.
So they had to cross through some of the enemies to get there
to help. And so there was danger there.
But yeah, you're right. So like the whole community of
Israel that were left, the remnant that was there, they
were helping right and doing all the work.
So. Yeah, from the least to the
greatest, everybody is. Everybody's helping, almost
everybody. Yeah, this is it is a hard
chapter to read. We'll just like, like recognize
it. Jake recognized it as he was, as
he was talking about it. And in his opening, how like,
OK, like you mentioned earlier, there's a lot of repetition and
you're tempted to think, man, this is not interesting at all.
Boring as a phone book was was said in the sermon.
But I think, I think he was joking, but it's, it's hard to
like find like we're going to read this in our reading plan.
We're going to come across some things and even our reading plan
skips over some genealogies. And so, so it's hard to like
draw out meaning there. So you have to be intentional.
One of the things that I was interested in.
So I was thinking, yeah, what what does it mean?
Like, why is it like set up the way it is and why is it so
repetitive? And I looked at a commentary
about Doctor Betts, the one we've been using for our
outline. I thought it was really
interesting that he drew out like that, the very beginning of
the chapter, like that Nehemiah was writing about who started
the worker. Like he starts with the priest,
right? So Doctor Betts mentions that
that it's essential that priests take the lead in the project,
for it is more than a reconstruction project.
It is God ordained work, turning the reproach of Jerusalem into
glory of God. They're on a spiritual mission
and they understand that the spiritual leadership requires
being an example to everyone else.
I thought that was that was interesting to think about.
OK, so if we're like just go to one resource or two resources
and try to if you, if you, if you don't have a study Bible or
something like that, look for resources online that might can
help you point to like what is really going on.
Doctor Betts also mentioned for context.
I thought this was interesting. You and I talked about this
briefly before, but in he mentioned that this is a
fulfillment like the rebuilding of the walls, fulfillment of
prophecy in Ezekiel. Ezekiel chapter 28 says in 25
and 26. So chapter 28 verse 25 and 26
says this. It says this is what the Lord
God says. When I gather the House of
Israel from the peoples where they are scattered, I will
demonstrate My holiness through them in the sight of the
nations, and they will live in their own land, which I gave to
my servant Jacob. They will live there securely.
They'll build houses, plant vineyards.
They will live securely. When I execute judgments against
all their neighbors who treat them with contempt, they will
know that I am the Lord their God.
And so Doctor Betts made the connection for this.
This is the first part of that security that he promised.
And so he's fulfilling his promises.
And so like one of the things in Sunday school, like one like
when we're talking to the kids and the kids are learning, one
of the like the things that we repeat over and over again is
that God always keeps his promises.
And so it's important for us to see that too.
So like the priest recognized that.
So they start building at the sheep gate, which is where all
of the sacrifices would take place.
It was important that they did that work 'cause that's where
they're going to be working. Yeah.
Anyway, I just thought it was very interesting to think about.
And you mentioned earlier that this sort of even connects to
our reading plan already. Right, Well, even in that, that
passage in Ezekiel, right, like he mentions like the land that
the Lord promised to Jacob, right.
When we just read that at the beginning of this week that, you
know, as Jacob is, is travelling, he stops in the land
that the Lord has promised to Abraham and he sleeps there and
he gets this vision from the Lord that the Lord is going to
bless him. He's going to give him this
land. This is where his descendants
are going to grow and, and be multiplied.
And it's again, like you said, a fulfillment of God's promise
many, many years later. But he's going to be faithful to
his promise to give his people that land.
Yeah. And so yeah, it's, it's
interesting to see it all connecting and tying together.
So like one, one of the like basic Bible reading skills we
need to like develop in our mind is like, so asking like those
diagnostic questions, what does this text teach me about God?
Well, there's our thing that is teaching us about God.
It's roundabout and we had to work for it, right?
We had to like work hard to get there, right?
Sort of hard. You have to look, you have to
know where to go. You have to know where your
resources are. But it points out that God, it's
a reminder of this like massive truth that God is a God who
keeps his promises. He is faithful.
And so that's like a lesson we can take from the first few
verses in in this book. And so I don't know, I just
thought it was pretty good to think about.
Yeah, absolutely. But like, sort of what you
mentioned, like some, again, part of what we're doing in
Scripture is, you know, taking the time, taking the time to
think, you know, where we are in the storyline of scripture.
You know, if we just come to a text and then just read it at
face value, there's, there's a lot that we don't understand
because there's, there's context there, right?
Like when we come to the book of Nehemiah, we, we need to ask
ourselves, well, what has happened before this?
And, and then we go back to like, OK, well, you know, we can
do like an overview of, of scripture at this point, right?
It's like, well, Adam and Eve, they send there was the fall and
God called Abraham and chose Abraham and and said he was
going to bless him. And then we see like Abraham's
descendants and their family and then they're in exile in Egypt,
but God delivers them. And then we see this 40 years in
the wilderness. But eventually they do come into
the land and then finally it's their land, right?
And then we see like God begin to make his covenant and his
promises sort of prior to going into the land.
But he says, if you'll be faithful to me, I'll bless you.
But if you walk away from me, if you disobey me, it's like, then
I will discipline you. And part of that discipline will
be exile, which is where we pick up an EMI, right?
I mean, this is like, yeah, you're going second, right?
I mean, this is big time overview, but those are helpful
things to know. It's like, well, why is Israel
in exile? Because they're disobedient.
But you know, that's also there's something to keep in
mind though, the disobedience, their disobedience, and then God
saying like making good on what he said is like, is him keeping
his word right? Absolutely.
We can't, we can't fault him for keeping his word.
No, absolutely not. Yeah.
But yeah, I mean that. So that helps you understand
what's going on. But then like then we're still
not done yet, right? Like that helps us to understand
what's going on in Nehemiah. But then we still need to take
the time to think through. It's like, well, OK, how what is
how does this apply to us today? What, what does that mean for us
now in the new covenant of Christ and how are things
fulfilled? And so that's again, sort of
what we're trying to do all throughout this book and see
how, again, how does it, how is this just part of God's big
story? Because again, the Bible is one
story. It's telling one story.
It's 66 different books by over 40 different authors over the
span of 1500 years or so. And yet it's all telling one
story of God's plan of redemption, and we need to
remember that. And so, yeah, I, I feel like
it's that that connection with Ezekiel is really, really
helpful because he was prophesying during that, you
know, or I don't know if it was maybe during that time.
It was during the exile. So he was during the during the
exile, Yeah. So.
So just before this. Yep, Yep.
Not too much, not too much time before, but like, still, when
Ezekiel's there, there's no hope.
Jeremiah and Ezekiel are like contemporaries.
There's in their mind, like Jeremiah doesn't end anything
in, well, it's like, oh, it's still still bad, right?
But there's hope, right? He's talking constantly talking
about the hope of things to come.
And Ezekiel's the same way. They're they're pointing toward
what God's going to do. And that's encouraging.
Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we have to do as
well. So we we're kind of in one of
these times of silence. Like we got that Christ has come
and we're living in this this like already not yet stage of.
You mean currently now like our day and.
So like we're waiting as well. Like we're in what we, The thing
is, we can't lose like hope that that Christ is going to keep his
promise. He's going to come back and he's
going to he's creating the new heavens and the new earth.
So we're like in the time on the great grand timeline of
everything, like we're in this spot where it's already
happened. Christ has come and redeemed the
world, but it hasn't happened yet, Right.
Right. So it's like already not yet.
We talked about that a lot in seminary so much that we got
tired of hearing the already. Not yet, But it's it's the way
to describe where we live right now.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And, and to think that like now we're now we're a part of
building something, right? Building a Kingdom like in the
same way that Nehemiah and all these people are, are a part of
building a wall that was going to be torn down and destroyed
anyway. Now we're a part of something
very similar, like, like if we look at it from like the, from
like the physical aspect, yeah. It's like, you know, we're in a
sense building and doing things that are going to be torn down
and destroyed because the new heavens and the earth are going
to come. But we're building a Kingdom
that is eternal. And that's like people who are,
who are fully, fully devoted followers of Christ, who are
disciples of Jesus and want and love and want to serve him.
The new people of God, the church is the new people of God.
So yeah, it's good stuff. That's awesome.
That's something to think about as we as we look at the
beginning. I'm just thinking just the two
verses, thinking about what the priests are there for, because
God is going to going to demonstrate that he is holy by
the way he protects Israel, and this is how he starts.
Yeah, really, really good stuff. Yeah, and like you said, they're
like, you know, they're trusting in the Lord, and that's why
everybody's hands go to the work.
I know one of the things Jake brought out was that, you know,
everybody sort of bought into the vision, right?
Because they see that the Lord is behind them.
And when you trust, you know that the Lord is with you and
that the Lord is orchestrating these events.
And, and the Lord has brought about all these things that have
now presented us with this situation and this opportunity
that wasn't there before. You're, it gives you the
confidence to go ahead and go. This is what the Lord wants us
to do. And so everybody jumps on board
and everybody, you know, dives in and is, is hard at work, you
know, rebuilding, rebuilding the work.
And and I thought that's really true, except for he did mention
almost everybody did. And then we have those nobles
from the from Tokoites, right, that didn't join the work and
like the ESV calls them. What did you say verse five?
I think it. Is yeah, it says they, they they
would not stoop to serve their Lord.
And Lord is capitalized, Yeah. So they're not talking about
Lord as in like a leader there. They didn't want to serve Yahweh
is what they're what he's saying.
But the interesting thing is is that the men of the village or
the men of the of the of Toccoa came anyway.
They're nobles. Whatever we're going, we were
going to trust and stoop our next to serve the Lord where you
may not. And it's interesting to think
about. And again, that commentary was
helpful like, OK, we're all these people in the city of
Jerusalem. That's another thing to think
about too. No, some of them lived outside
in the neighbouring areas and they had to come back to build
the wall of the city. And so like to Co I was one of
those was like 11 1/2 miles away, they say.
And so they had to cross through danger and their nobles weren't
willing to do that. They didn't trust the Lord and
like what? Not stooping their, their necks,
right? Is that what they said?
Not stoop down to serve their Lord.
It's like the word is hang on, let me look it up because I
thought it was really, really good.
Oh, literally hard of neck is what the Hebrew word is for that
like, so it reminds me of stiff necked Pharisees and a stiff
neck generation in the New Testament where Christ is
describing those who, who wouldn't listen to him, he was
there and they wouldn't listen. So even in the in like when
you're, when there's a whole group of people who like are on
the same mission, there are still going to be some that
never adopt, right? There's the early adopters that
sometimes and then there's the people that never adopt the
mission, right? So I think that we can't, we
can't be discouraged by the very few people who never, who never
adopt you, right? Well, and then there's going to
be people, you know, who oppose the work, you know?
Oh yeah, coming on, that is completely, completely against
and not just not helping, right. And we and we see sort of like
the building tension, right? Like like in Chapter 2, it's
like, you know, the, the engine starts, you know, as Nehemiah
comes across. And then it's like we're sort of
introduced to these enemies. And then the opposition starts
to increase at the end of Chapter 2.
And it's like that now, the insults start to get hurled, and
that opposition is just going to get ramped up more and more and
more. And it's like, man, yeah,
there's going to be people who are going to oppose, oppose it
even though you're doing the Lord's work, you know?
Yeah, the rising tension will will culminate next week when we
start 41. When Sambalot heard that they
were rebuilding the ball, he became furious.
Yeah, he seems like a nice guy, but he needs.
Yeah, it's like, and that's, and that's not, not only normal, but
it should be expected, right? Like we should expect that when
we're, we're doing the Lord's work, the Lord's enemies are
going to rise up against us. And it's, it's not because
they're opposing us, you know, even though it's tempting to
feel like that, right? They're they're opposing what
God is doing. Yeah, that's, that's something
helpful to think through as you're like, I'm just thinking
about the evangelism team. They bump into people all the
time who are discouraging in their responses to them.
And even, like, if you're trying to do something good, like if
you're just trying even like, like Mercy Ministry, you're just
trying to help with like, a cold glass of water, Right?
Yeah, There's still going to be people out there that are just
like completely against. You.
Yeah, exactly. They'll find some way to slander
you. So what's the lesson there?
To know what happens and move on and keep going.
Right. Yeah.
Trust in the Lord and keep going.
Yeah, right. I mean, you know, I mean, there
may be a time for discerning. It's like, you know what, just
double checking, you know, like maybe praying and going all
right, am am I sure on the right path is am I for sure doing what
the Lord wants me to do? And it's like, once you're
confident of that, it's like, yeah, let's keep keep going.
Right. We were reading Paul, like Paul
1st Corinthians 16, right? He's like there's a wide, wide
the door for ministry is wide open, but many oppose me.
That's sort of how he knew. He's like the door is wide open
because and I know that's because many oppose me.
That's sort of the same thing here.
It's like, yeah, we're going to do this.
We know that people don't want us to do this because we were a
strong nation. Yeah, right.
We were. And then again, they, I think
you were. Was it, Ezra, when they said,
yeah, they were rebellious people?
Was that what you said? Yeah, in the time.
In the time of Ezra. Yeah, yeah.
So Joe is still sick, still sick, still fighting the cold.
I am too. Hopefully it goes away soon.
But yeah, I mean, the thing I think the one of the encouraging
things, I mean like to to sort of get practical and
applicational with it. I think like all the people that
that are hands on deck is, is encouraging to us as a church.
You know, I think it really points to the body of Christ in
the in in the new covenant. You know, like now the church is
as the people of God and thinking of everybody with
different skill sets, with different gifts, with different
abilities coming together for the same purpose of building
God's Kingdom, right? And I think there's, there's
times where we will all be doing different tasks and, and using
our unique gifts that God has given to us.
And then there's other times where it's like, man, there's an
issue that's just so pressing and so necessary that it's like
everybody's helping with that. I think of, you know, here at
this church when, when we were adding on this side of the
building, you know, just to save money, that a lot of people in
the church did a lot of the work ourselves, right?
And so again, everybody's working and all hands on deck,
right? Like women are helping with
cleaning and painting and men are doing like drywall and
whatever. And so there are different tasks
in there, but the main task is like let's add this addition.
We got to get this building. Done.
Yeah, let's do this work, right. And so everybody was like
working together and lots of people were were helping.
And so it's like, yeah, it's, it's so pressing in that moment
that everybody's helping with it.
Yeah, it reminds me too of like, like we talked about in the
beginning of this series that that prayer needs to be our
first option, right? Can't be the like your last
resort. It has to be your first option.
So that's one of the things that everybody has the, the ability
to and, and the, the responsibility to do, right.
So we, we should like if we want to move towards being a more, I
think, I think no matter how strong you are in prayer,
there's always room for improvement.
So if you want to move towards like becoming a, a more a
praying church, being more known as a praying church, we need to
make like, it doesn't matter, OK, you can't lead a Bible
study. You're not, you're not skilled
in that or you don't, you're not going to, you're not an
evangelist. You know, it's not, that's not
my spiritual gift. Well, you can pray for
evangelist, right? You can, you can pray for Bible
study leaders. You can pray for like.
And so I think it's important for us to like, not neglect,
like that is building the wall. If you want to talk about
protection and asking the Lord for the and, and, and
recognizing that the Lord is all we have.
Like prayer is prayer. Is it, it, is it.
That's where the book started. That's where it's going to
finish honestly. Like, you know, like reclaiming
and being firm for the Lord. But yeah, anyway, prayer, I
think prayer is one of those things like you mentioned, like
what, everybody, it's all hands on deck.
Doesn't matter if you think you're good at it, if you think
you're eloquent with speech, it doesn't matter.
We're praying to the Lord and so.
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I would think that
discipleship ties in with that too, right.
Like, again, like it's easy to point to the things that we
can't do. But you know, one of the things
that we believe here as as pastors and as a leadership, as
a church, that we believe that, you know, it's everybody's
responsibility to be involved in discipleship.
You know, to what, to what level is it may be different in
different people. You know, like you said, some
people may oversee like a youth ministry or young adults
ministry or, you know, they may be teaching like larger groups
or teaching on a Wednesday night.
And so there's different levels of, of responsibility and, and
authority there. But at some level, we expect
everybody to be involved in discipleship.
I mean, that's, that is not optional, right?
That is for everyone, you know. And so as parents, you're just,
you ought to be discipling your kids, but you ought to be
involved in discipleship in the church as well and helping other
people grow in their faith. Because again, the Commission,
the Great Commission is to make disciples of all nations,
teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you.
And so at some level, we all need to be involved in it.
And it's a simple, I mean, we have a super simple process.
You know, anybody I know it people are, you know, I don't
know if I'm ready for that. And then once we explain the
system and, and once you're in AD group for a couple weeks,
you're like, Oh yeah, anybody can do this.
You know, I've, I've heard that recently where like 2 weeks into
a discipleship group, you know, they've met once or twice and
everybody in the group is going, Oh yeah, I, I think I could do
this no problem. Like it, anybody can do it.
It is that simple. But it's just about US meeting
together, sharing what God's teaching us, sharing what we're
learning, holding each other accountable.
And it's like allowing God to grow us together in His Word.
Yep. That's all it is.
Yeah. Because the reason it's so it
feels that way, that it's so easy.
Well, one it is. But it's because God does the
work, right? He's not.
You're not. You're not growing on your own.
You're not. You don't have to have like a
theology degree in order to read the Bible and to talk about it
with another person. You just have to be committed to
it. Like you can't, you can't just
say that's beneath me or and honestly, I think that's part of
it too. It's like there's there's like
I'm just thinking about objections to becoming like
being a discipleship group. Like I don't have time.
There's probably something else there, right?
That's not really an excuse. You know, if we've debunk the I
don't have time excuse before, I don't know if we've done it
here, but everybody has time. Yeah, you do.
Just go open up your phone, like if you have an iPhone and swipe
left. Oh, move your finger to the
right and then scroll up a little bit and you'll find
screen time there if you have it turned on, and you'll see how
much time you have. Look at the one that says
Facebook or whatever social media app you use.
You have time. Yeah.
OK, so that's debunked. Well, and again, sort of to tie
in with that, like these D groups, I mean you can meet in
an hour. Exactly an hour and 15 minutes.
Is that like a long one? Right, But so you have time.
Secondly, like I don't feel like I'm I'm not qualified to do
that. OK, that's a pride thing.
Like maybe you're afraid, maybe you're just you have a fear of
what other people will think. That's so that's fear of man and
and pride in your and like you feel like you don't want your
pride to be hurt, right. So like they're an or yeah, or
I'm better. I don't need that.
Like that's another thing. If you're like, like somebody
who's been, I've been a Christian for over 30 years,
right? Like there's a, there's a part
of you that says I'm above that. Like there might be.
And if we ever get to that spot in your life, then you need to
like really ask the Lord for forgiveness and repent because
you're not there yet. Like the Lord is showing me,
man, like you're not there yet. Jonah.
So absolutely. So like it, it's likely there's
a sin issue that's causing you to not want to take the step and
be in a group. And I would just say, just think
on that, pray on that and ask the Lord to reveal that to you.
Because what is holding you back from, from wanting to be like in
community, growing in Christ, in a community of four or five
people who are loving you and, and, and the reason you're Satan
is the only thing holding you back.
There's a sin issue in your heart that's holding you back,
and there's something you need to prioritize or deprioritize in
your life to allow you have time for it.
Yeah. And if we and if and if there
are people who are intimidated, I mean the process is to get to
be involved in AD group. Right.
Not lead it right. Right for and you can be there
for, you know, the goal is a year and then after a year of
really feeling comfortable with the whole system and how it
works, like then launching out and starting your own group.
And if you don't feel comfortable after a year, stay
in the group, right? You know, stay, stay on the, on
the Yeah, but but you, you will feel comfortable.
That's the that's the whole point.
It's like absolutely two weeks in.
Oh yeah, People who are like some of the people who are like,
yeah, I can do this. Then two months in, the hardest
person would be able to say, yeah, I think I can do this.
Yeah. And I want to tie into like,
maybe, maybe a reason that people might give that maybe is
a bit deeper, which is I think like fear, fear of like what
people might find. And so and that, I think that is
sin and pride too. So the accountability part,
right? Like I think there's some people
who it's like, man, I don't want to go there.
I don't want to share my heart. I don't want to share the
concerns I'm going through. Like I'm scared of what I'll
find and I'm scared of what other people will find.
And and that's a scary thing, right, to open up to people and,
and again, the group just naturally it, it's not about
like a deep dive into like immediately revealing all the
deepest starts. Well, it's not a, it's not a
therapy session. No, it's not a counseling
session. No, it's it's not like that's
one of the things to keep in mind too.
Right. And the goal is to become close,
but that that happens over time. That's why they're a year long
because it's like it happens slowly.
Like as you get more comfortable, you're able to
like, you begin to trust these people and you see that they're
on their side, on your side, and they're for you.
And you begin to like share a little bit more and maybe a
little bit more of your heart and what's going on and how they
can be praying for you. Because these people are for
you. They want you to succeed.
They want you to experience all the joy and the blessings that
come from communion with Christ and communion as brothers and
sisters in Christ. Yeah.
Yeah, dude, it's a, there's a, it's a the community aspect of
something. Yeah, is super important.
Yeah, well, and and talk about building a wall, right?
Like right. Exactly.
Protection right wall is. Protection and and like when we
when we are involved in discipleship, then that analogy
could probably go a lot of ways, right?
Like we build up a wall in our own lives where now it's a
defense against the enemy, it's a defense against our own self
doubt. While you're using spiritual
disciplines to help with that. So you're you're doing your
daily Bible reading, you're meditating on a passage of
Scripture every day, a different 1:00 every day.
And then you're meditating on one even further with the memory
verses that you work on every week.
And so those are like, those are defenses.
Yeah. Against the devil.
Yeah. And so like, that's building a
wall in your own life. And then with the community too,
right? We're building together, right?
We're working together. Now we have like this teamwork.
Right. That's right.
This I know that an illustration that that Aldo has shared with
me before where he's talking about like it's a helpful
illustration as we talk about like these groups.
Aldo is a person like in our church.
Yeah, Aldo, yeah. Aldo, he's a great guy.
Aldo is a great guy. Sorry, I didn't like most people
might know who all that's true, that's true, who may not.
Know that's fair. Yeah.
Aldo Gabriel, yeah. And so one of the things that
he's, he's shared with as we talk about like discipleship
groups is he uses the illustration of Redwood trees.
And so Redwood trees are among the tallest and the biggest
trees in all the world. And the reason a tall can, a
tree can grow tall and strong and stand firm in the midst of
like storms and everything is because of its root system.
Right now, these trees are different.
Their roots don't go like down really far and they're not like
super big, but what they actually do is they're usually
less than a meter below the surface of the ground and they
spread out and intertwine. With the with other Redwood.
With the other Redwood trees and that's how they're able to stand
so strong and get so big and so tall.
And so it's a, it's a really amazing illustration of, of what
it's like in our Christian lives that like when we begin to
connect our lives with other people again, the, the fear of
opening up is a real fear for us.
But the truth is that once we do that, we actually get stronger.
We can grow spiritually stronger and the Lord uses it to shape us
and mold us in a way and and we grow as disciples.
It's really, really good. Now I'm thinking about roots,
like an oak tree would have a different root system.
A lot of times they're off by themselves, especially in the
South. They're out by themselves in the
middle of big fields. And there's one of the big broad
trees. And the picture is like, it's
almost the same like limb structure underneath the ground
that is up top deep tall, like deep down wide out like it is so
that it can, it's almost so it's like, and then pine trees have a
taproot that goes way down deep in the ground, which is why
they're good in sand anyway. So anyway, tree roots are fun
and fascinating so. Right.
Well, and again, it's like now I'm thinking of an illustration
that one of our professors use, Doctor Pierre.
He, he talked about like a healthy root system and this
idea of like, like our roots, like if, if we look at the fruit
of our lives, so many times we're looking at the symptoms in
our life, right? And so I would just challenge
people to think about this, look at the things in your life.
What is the fruit of your life, right?
Maybe there's fruit from me not trusting God.
Maybe there's fruit from the fact that me and my wife don't
talk about spiritual things or we don't pray together.
Or, or maybe I'm seeing the fruit of the fact that, you
know, I haven't really been involved in discipling my kids
or I'm not really involved in church or, or I'm not, you know,
going to Bible study or getting involved in a discipleship
group, or I haven't taken my face seriously.
And, and the fruit of not reading and not praying and all
these different things. And look at the fruit of your
life and what is causing that lack of fruit or what is causing
that unhealth, right? Like it presents itself as like,
man, there's no fruit in my life.
There's no, maybe not very many leaves on my tree.
I sort of look like a dead tree. And well, what are you rooted
in? And, and this idea that like
what you're rooted in, like your roots, and then what is feeding
your roots is what comes out in your fruit, right?
And so the whole idea of, of discipleship and, and D groups
is getting rooted in Christ together with brothers and
sisters. And when you're rooted in God's
word and the Holy Spirit is working through his word as you,
and it's going to now come up in your root system and it's going
to start showing itself in fruit in, in a healthy tree that bears
fruit. And so we have to be intentional
though, to get rooted in Christ, to get rooted in his word, to
get rooted in, in one another. And so I mean, that's what we're
doing right? Like I remember wrestling with
this question years ago, but like, when we come to church,
like, what are we doing right? Like what, what is the point?
What's the point? Like, we gather, we sing, we
listen to a sermon, and then we leave.
Like, then what? Right?
But if it's discipleship, it's growing together as Christ's
church, building his Kingdom that we're growing as disciples,
right? Getting rooted in Christ, you
know, being connected to the vine, bearing fruit through him
is growing us as disciples so that we're healthy and we're
bearing fruit and that the, and that good news can spread to
other people, right? That other disciples grow and
that people who don't know Christ are seeing the fruit of
our lives or, or we're sharing the gospel.
And it's like they're coming to faith in Christ and knowing him.
And it's like we're building God's Kingdom and and showing
what it means to to love the Lord with all your heart and the
blessing and the joy and the peace that comes from that.
Yeah, One thing that stood out to me when you were talking, you
were you were, I thought you may have been confusing.
You said there's like the fruit of not doing something or the
fruit of so the negative fruit. So, but it made me think like,
no, we're producing fruit all the time like we are.
It's not that we're withering and dying.
We're producing either good fruit or bad fruit, right?
Like a a non Christian can't produce good fruit.
You can't. It might look good, right?
But when you bite into it, it's rancid, sour, terrible.
Or it's like those those fake fruits you put on the table.
It's like you bite into that's just a big like crack of tooth
because it's just a solid brick of wood or something.
But yeah, we're always producing fruit and, and you're right, it
is, it is definitely a product of of the root system.
What is the, what are, what are your roots in?
I'm just thinking like, are they, are they buried in
whatever the world is trying to tell me right now on social
media or whatever? Or are they buried in like the
whatever the world is trying to tell me through the stories that
they tell on television? Or you know what I mean?
What, what is it that we're like, we're giving our time to
swipe right on your phone and look at your screen time and
find out where you're putting your time.
It's it's revealing to you. And then, and then the other
thing is like whenever I see someone who has good fruit, What
does it make you want? It makes you want good fruit.
And so the community aspect of that, when we come, what are we
doing when we come here? If we're just coming here for to
hang out together, sing songs, listen to a sermon and go home.
And we're not after discipleship.
If we're not after like growing closer to the Lord, if that's
not our goal and becoming more godly in our lives, then we're
producing bad fruit. And so I would encourage anybody
coming to church on Sunday or Wednesday night, like what is
like check, check your motives. Is my motive here to, to grow in
godliness, right? Like we discipline ourselves for
the purpose of godliness. And that's what my class is
about. Is our purpose godliness or is
it this is duty? This is what we've always done.
I'm going to go because if my, if, if they don't see me there,
then they're going to think I'm backslidden, which you may be
backslidden and showing up. Just so you know, I'm talking to
myself too. But what am I coming?
Check your motives. Am I coming because I want to
grow ungodliness and because I want to like help Joe with his
like, fruit making? Or or is it because I just want
like something for myself? Or maybe I just don't want I
just don't want to disappoint my family.
I don't know. Those are things to think
through. Right, absolutely.
Well, and Jesus in the Sermon of the Mount, actually, like he, he
tells us, you know, beware of, of false teachers who come to
you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Yeah. And it's like, how do?
Well, and then it makes you wonder.
It's like, well, how do we do? How do we be aware of that?
You will know them by their fruit, by their fruit.
You'll recognize them by their fruit.
It's good or it's not good, but they're they're you're making
fruit. Exactly.
It's like a healthy tree can't bear bad fruit and a diseased
tree can't bear good fruit, right.
And so it's like, that's how you know, you look at people, you
look at their life and you look at the fruit of their life and
you go, that person is not producing good.
Fruit. And sometimes it takes time.
Yeah. And it's hard, right?
And I think sometimes we can be convinced by the world.
I mean, the world that we live in right now is, is pushing so
hard against like, don't you dare judge anybody else in their
life and what they do. It's like, man, your own truth.
And, you know, you watch these interviews of people going
around, like interviewing people on the streets, asking them, you
know, well, do you believe in this?
Do you believe in that? And it's like, I just, I just
stay out of it, right? They can do whatever they want.
They can. That's what they want to do.
And that makes them happy. Fine, do whatever you want to
do. It's like we're called to a
higher standard than that as believers.
It's like, not only are we supposed to to look at the world
and to be able to judge what is good and what is not, but we're
actually supposed to be judging one another, right?
When we went through the book of First Corinthians, it's like
that's our responsibility to be, to be testing people's
genuineness of their faith, right?
If you profess to be a follower of Christ, you profess to be a
disciple, right? And your life doesn't match up
with that. And then we need to be holding
each other accountable. And that's what groups do,
right? The discipleship groups help you
with that, right? Like it helps you confirm you
will find out if you're producing good fruit or bad
fruit, right? Like Yep.
And you will, dude, you're right.
And the community matters. So like a thinking about like
like this chapter in Nehemiah, like the result of them all
doing this work together collaboratively and like it's a
diverse group. Like we had a lot of people
weren't named. There were a lot of names, but a
lot of people weren't named. Like you don't know who most of
them were, right? Like we don't know.
Just gives like big groups. Of big groups, Goldsmiths, the
people, like, but like, that's something like everybody knows
that everybody has the same interest.
Like I can count on you, right. You built your section of the
wall, right. I can count on you.
Yeah. Like if you're the Taco men of
Taco, you built 2 sections of the wall to make up for your
nobles not coming right. Like you, you really, you
recognize, hey, we got to do something, right.
You built 2 sections of the wall.
Like we can count on one another.
And so like, that's the thing like if we like, I just like the
desire in my heart to look around my church and know that
like the people who are coming to our church, who are who we
consider our church, we can count on them because they're so
not count on them to to help me not count on them to provide for
me. I can count on them to point me
to God like when my life is going astray or when I am like,
yeah, I can count on them to point me back to who is
protecting us, you know, for real.
So anyway, yeah. Well, that's so good, right As
you were talking, it just reminded me of like some of the
practical nature of this chapter.
I think a number of times it mentions it's like, man, these
people started building in front of their house, right?
And it's like, OK, so it's like very practical in a sense.
It's like you're not going across town to work.
It's like I'll just build a section right here.
What's the most efficient way to do it right?
Stay where you are and let's get your section done.
Right. And as I think about these D
groups again, like I something, you know, I just started another
one recently and 11 very practical thing that I did was
like, you know what, Hey, you know what?
I, I have a few people in mind and I'm like, I might just find
people that are in this area, right?
They're all in Wheatley. And so I'm like, OK, I'm going
to find more people in Wheatley and I'm going to find those
people in I know. As I was thinking about somebody
who said, no, they live in Wheatley, I'm taking them.
Well, it's like there's a very practical thing, right?
And it's like, so for anybody out there who's like, well, I
don't have time, I got to drive really far or whatever it is,
it's like, hey, just be practical about it.
It's like the whole, again, the whole goal is like you're
meeting weekly. And So what I tell people is
like, if, if you feel the Lord is calling you to do this and,
and maybe the Lord is really putting it on your heart that I
need, I need to join a group. I need to be involved in Group.
I need to start a group, begin praying about it.
And I, what I tell people is this is supposed to be as
convenient as possible, right? So a lot of men are going to
say, I know a lot of men's groups that will be like, I'm
just going to meet very early on a Saturday morning so I don't
take time away from my family. And so it's a bit of a sacrifice
for you, but you can make it work to what you want, right?
It doesn't have to be at a certain time on a certain day or
whatever. Pick a day and a, pick a time
that works for you. Maybe a Monday night at set from
seven to seven, 7:00 to 8:30 works for you.
Now you go, I'm going to find 3 or 4 guys maybe who live close
to me and we can all meet at the Tim's down the street.
But I'm going to tell them I'm meeting on Monday nights at
7830. If it doesn't work for you, then
that's fine, right? I'm sorry I can't make that
work. Or maybe someone else like yeah,
I can make that work. And so just be very practical
about it and find fun. And those would be the people
that the Lord wants you. That's right.
Just trusting that it's like for in this season of my life, this
is the time that works. This is the day that works.
This is where it meets for me to work.
And just trust that the Lord is going to bring you the people
that that works for too. It does.
Yeah, that's true. Valerie's, my wife's group is
one of those Monday night groups.
Monday night from 7:00 she what happens is I come home from work
and I I'm helping out with whatever the dinner is and then
like what? We have dinner and then and then
she leaves and then, you know, I'm there to help take care of
the kids and clean up the kitchen and do all the different
things. And it's like it's convenient
for her. Like I'm home.
I can take care of the kids. Men, take care of your children.
Don't just like throw it off on your wife.
Take just say, Hey, I'm going to do this for you.
Like I'm it's a sacrifice for both of you.
But I get it at some at times because parenting by yourself is
not easy. And sometimes we need to see
that as men, we need to see what our wives go through all the
time with all of our kids. But absolutely.
But yeah, so just I love that point.
Make it convenient for you. Like, just like just like
Nehemiah 3, right? Just go right outside the door
of your house and and work there.
Yeah, yeah. That's good.
And maybe there are people who who are interested in in joining
a discipleship group, but don't really know where to start or
don't know what to do. And you know, we do actually
have a forum and maybe we can share it in this podcast link if
you're interested, you know, maybe you don't know where to
start, maybe you don't know what to do.
Maybe maybe you're interested in starting one, or maybe you're
just interested in joining when you're not quite ready to start
1 yet. Well, we have a form or just an
interest form, right? If you're interested, I think
you even promise that you'll give people a coffee if they
come. I will.
Did I say that? Yeah, I did.
Say that might be in that form, Jonah, we'll buy you a coffee
and we'll share with you sort of our vision and, and what it is.
But if if you're just even interested in finding more out
about it and having a conversation, you know, we'll,
we'll link this form in there and then you can fill it out and
we'll connect with you and we'll chat about it.
Now we can meet at the coffee shop, even.
Yeah, happy to do that. That's really good.
Really, really good. All right.
What else from Nehemiah 3? Anything else you wanted to
bring out? I think, I think that's all I
have so far that I can think of. But yeah.
This the encouragement. Like there are tons of hard
passages in the Old Testament. There's some in the New
Testament that are hard to read. Yeah.
Don't skip over them right? Like even though, even though
it's difficult, don't skip them. That honestly, that's a big
lesson that we learn on even on Sunday morning.
It's like Pastor Jake had a hard task, like that's a hard chapter
to preach and he didn't skip over it.
He could have, he had every right to do whatever he wants.
He's the lead pastor of the church.
He could say, I'm not preaching that I'll preach.
Go to four. He could have done that and it
was doing fine, but he didn't. And so don't skip the hard
stuff. Like if you need resources and
you're just curious and you're like, hey, I can't get anything
out of this, I'd encourage you to buy a study Bible.
Like there's the ESV study Bible is amazing.
The CSB study Bible is also very, very good.
Those two by themselves would be awesome.
I know a lot of guys around here use the MacArthur study Bible.
It's also very good. The first two though, that I
would mention are the ones that I've used personally and I can,
I can like strongly recommend anybody grabbing those.
Yeah, and there are. There are other helpful
commentaries too. I know some guys were asking me
and I was sharing some some with them as well like like Bible
ref.net which is from from Got Questions which is a ministry
from John Piper I believe I. Think so.
Yeah. And so there's other ones like
Enduring Word, I've heard I've gotten that one recommended to
me and I've I've gone through that one a little bit, which is
pretty good. But yeah, look, find a resource.
Dude, we're we live in a day. Where all you have to do is
Google it. It's.
A you do, I would, I would very strongly encourage people to go
spend 150 or $200.00 on a good study Bible.
Yeah, you don't need to spend that much, but you know, you
could probably find a really good study Bible from anywhere
from. 50 to $100, the ESV and the CSV for between 50 and 100.
I think it be 55 bucks, but you you can get them the paperback
versions all you need. You don't need a leather bound
version, right? You don't need to tote this
thing around the church and like like you don't have to do that.
Get out. This is a study Bible.
This is for your study. Yeah, buy a paperback version.
It doesn't matter. It doesn't, but but even if it
costs a little bit of money, it's like, man, what again?
What a greater investment like we we waste money on things of
far less value. You know God's word, thinking of
the way the psalmist talk about God's word, it's like man, may
we search for you in your word more than silver and gold and
it's more precious than all that It's like spend some money so
that you can understand God's word.
That's right. Like it's not a shame, it's not
embarrassing. I read study Bibles and
resources and commentaries all the time.
It's like it's not it's not shameful, it's not embarrassing.
It's like we. All need help sometimes that's
all you that like in order to stand and preach, that's what
you have to at some .0 absolutely you have to get help.
Like right. Like I was using a commentary,
the one like this one's called Nehemiah, a pastoral and
exegetical commentary when at the beginning of this thing I
was looking at one of those for help and like, yeah, like why
did he start the way he start? You have to ask questions first,
come with your questions, yeah. And then just dive in.
Studying is a discipline. Absolutely.
And I would actually add to like, like not only is reading a
commentary or some other study help, not only is it not an
embarrassing thing, I would actually say it it it's
essential. Yeah, because one of the reasons
you need to be reading commentaries is because after
you've read and studied God's Word, meditated on it, and come
to what you I think is an understanding of what it says,
reading a commentary is a really helpful way of going.
Did I get this? Right?
Right. Because if you come to a
conclusion and an understanding and then you read 10
commentaries and no one else is saying what you're saying,
you're probably then you're wrong.
Probably. Yeah, you're probably wrong.
And so it's a, it's a really helpful way of making sure that
we are being faithful with, with how we're understanding
Scripture. Yeah, if you're ever concerned,
if you have a question, all right, what do we listen to?
What do we read? Just reach out.
We have tons of options maybe in our office that will loan you or
point you in the right direction for a resource.
We we're happy to help you. Yeah.
Like, that's one of the things to keep in mind too.
Absolutely. So, yeah, I don't, I don't have
anything else either. Just like when you come to the
hard ones, don't skip. It don't skip.
It force yourself read it to read it slowly and ask God to
reveal himself to you through it.
Yeah, and he will, because God always keeps his promises right.
Absolutely awesome. Pastor Joe, would you mind
praying for us as we wrap up this episode?
Absolutely. I'm always calling on you to
pray. Sorry, I'm not going to go back.
I'll let you close us. It's fine.
Lord, we thank you so much for your word as we've had many
conversations about your word and, and what it teaches us
about you, that you are a holy God who is faithful, who keeps
his promises. And Lord, we worship you because
of that. And we can go back and into all
these scriptures and we can just be reminded of your faithfulness
to previous generations, reminded of your promises to
previous generations. And all of those promises find
their fulfillment in Christ. And we are a part of this new
covenant through him and, and we no longer have to live the way
that a lot of the people did in the Old Testament.
We don't have to offer these sacrifices anymore.
We don't have to follow the letter of the law, but now we
follow the law of the Spirit and we rejoice that that Christ has
made a way for us to be made right with you through His
sacrifice, through his shed blood, through His perfect life.
And we just rejoice, Lord. And we, we want to be a people
who love you with all our heart, all our soul, all our mind, all
our strength. We want to be a people who
pursue you in your word and seek to be faithful and obedient to
it. But we know we fall short of
that and and we're grateful for your continued grace and
forgiveness in our lives. And Lord, we do ask, Lord, that
you would continue to strengthen us as a church as we seek to
build your Kingdom, build disciples.
And, and Lord, as we sort of figuratively build a wall of
protection for us as a church and us as your people, trusting
that you're going to give a success.
Or would you help us to build disciples?
Would you help us to, to raise up people who are committed to
you, faithful growing in your word and and seeking to, to make
other disciples as we seek to, to bring your glory and your
fame and all the earth? Or we are trusting not in
ourselves, our own effort, our own ability, but your spirit
working in and through us as you are doing and accomplishing your
perfect plan and your perfect purpose.
And Lord, we just are grateful to be a part of what you're
doing and ask for your leadership, your guidance, and
in your hand to work in and through us as we do that.
We ask all of this in Jesus name, Amen.
Amen. Well, thanks for joining us.
We are praying for you, LEMC. Hope you have a great week.