1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,560 All right. So welcome to be on Sunday an 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,360 extension of the preaching ministry here at LEMCI Am, 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,840 Pastor Jonah Chitty, joined today by Pastor Joe Penner as 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,440 always. And today we have a special 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,760 guest. We have Anthony Fair, the one, 6 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,680 the only Anthony Fair. Is there another Anthony Fair? 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,120 Probably. There is. 8 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:21,960 So I lied to. Everybody, yes, OK. 9 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,440 And I don't think he goes to this church, but he's from the 10 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,840 community anyway. OK, so this the one of two 11 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,720 Anthony Fairs is here joining us today and it's good to have you 12 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,400 here. Anthony is one of our youth 13 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:39,600 leaders for senior youth, right? I got that right for senior 14 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,160 youth. We're excited to have you here. 15 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:45,000 So we're going to be talking a little bit today about your 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,360 ministry. Also. 17 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,000 We're going to talk at first, I think we're going to talk about 18 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,200 Pastor Jake's sermon. Pastor Jake preached a sermon. 19 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,800 Joe preached a sermon from First Corinthians chapter 15. 20 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,280 You left off on verse 19, I think, right? 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,720 So he picked up in verse 20 and went all the way down to 3433 is 22 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,320 an incredible verse. Do not be deceived. 23 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,640 Bad company corrupts good morals. 24 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,720 So I'm sorry I'm bad company most of the time for you, Joe. 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,400 I might corrupt you, but yeah. So it's a very good passage. 26 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,440 Continuing Paul's really, really in depth overview of the 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,400 resurrection. So yeah, what are your guys 28 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,080 thoughts about the sermon? Yeah, I, I thought he was sort 29 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,480 of building off of, you know, my sermon the week before mine was 30 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:35,760 the importance of the resurrection. 31 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,960 And he's beginning to talk about some of the effects of the 32 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:40,400 resurrection. And so I know first, the first 33 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,600 one that he talked about was that death was conquered. 34 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,480 And so because of Adam, all men have sinned. 35 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,760 But through Christ and his victory, through his, his death, 36 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,080 his burial, his resurrection, he actually defeated death. 37 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,280 And so death was conquered. And so his second point was that 38 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,520 Jesus resurrection in rain meets the end of all earthly rain. 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,240 And so whether we like it or not, it's, you know, the, the 40 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,080 rulers and the kingdoms of this world will have to subject 41 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,160 themselves to Christ, you know, whether they want to or not. 42 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,440 And so he said in sort of in that point, it's not a matter of 43 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,480 if, but when that Jesus is the true ruler and judge. 44 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,480 And I've, I've maybe you guys have heard this before, but I've 45 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:26,120 heard people say this before that when people accept Jesus is 46 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,880 their Lord and Savior. And it's sort of like that's 47 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,320 it's a nuance in the wording, but it's not that like you 48 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,560 accept Jesus, it's like Jesus is Lord. 49 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,520 Right. Or somebody said like make 50 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:37,880 Jesus. That's what it is. 51 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,480 Yeah. And like, yeah, yeah, right. 52 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,440 Like you can make Jesus anything, Yeah. 53 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,320 And you're it's just whether you come to realize that truth or 54 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,760 not. But like Jake said, it's not a 55 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,680 matter of if, but when. And then his Third Point was 56 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,600 that Jesus resurrection means complete unity and perfection 57 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,680 restored. And I, I sort of like how he, he 58 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:02,560 talked about the two different sides of Jesus. 59 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:03,960 Not that we talk about two different sides. 60 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,680 It's really the complete fullness of God and, and his 61 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,080 perfect nature. But, you know, sometimes we can 62 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,560 overemphasize the judgement and the, the harsh realities that 63 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,120 are in Scripture of, of God's justice and judgement, but then 64 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,240 we forget his gentleness and his compassion and those and his 65 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,240 love and those sorts of things. But we have to, we have to 66 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,240 realize that it's, it's not like 5050 or 252525. 67 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:34,000 It's like God is 100% just, he is 100% holy and 100% righteous 68 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,680 and compassionate and righteous and all of those things. 69 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,880 And so I thought it was helpful for him to talk about the, the 70 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:45,960 different realities of who God is in, in his perfect state. 71 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:52,320 And so, yeah, he sort of talked about what we become is evident 72 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,560 by what we follow. And this idea that you know, 73 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,320 what we, what we believe and, and how we live sort of proves 74 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,960 what we believe. Yeah, I think. 75 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,680 Does that come out in the? Does that come out near the end? 76 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,680 Of the Yeah, yeah, that was close to the end, yeah. 77 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,720 It hits on that verse that I mentioned at the beginning when 78 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,440 I was reading it there. And like, yeah, you like, if not 79 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,079 like, I think he's picking up on this idea that Paul's talking 80 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:18,200 about in verse 32 about like, if, you know, if the 81 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,240 resurrection isn't true, if the dead aren't raised, then let's 82 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,720 eat, drink because tomorrow it's all over, right? 83 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,000 Like a nihilist attitude, like, yeah. 84 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,920 And that's just not that's not the right way to go. 85 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,520 And so I think he picked up on that and that bad company 86 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:36,520 corrupts good morals is such a good like it's a proverb. 87 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,720 It's in quotes in the CSPI. Don't know what it is in the ESV 88 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,640 as a quote, like a popular saying or something like that. 89 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,480 But like it makes me makes me of garbage in garbage out 90 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,320 mentality. Like if you put a lot of garbage 91 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,280 in your brain, that's what's going to come out. 92 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:52,000 So Anthony, how'd you how'd you feel about this? 93 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,880 Yeah, yeah. Do you guys talking about that? 94 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:59,600 Reminds me of a conversation I had once with a boss of mine a 95 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,760 few years ago, and I brought this up at youth too. 96 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,200 Actually, we were just studying the book of job, so we were 97 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,400 talking about. Is it job or job is? 98 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,000 Job job for sure, no doubt we were talking about job and just 99 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,240 suffering and the, the world's view on suffering. 100 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,400 And I remember a conversation I had with my boss. 101 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,000 He, he explained to me that the reason he doesn't, you know, 102 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,960 believe in, in Jesus is because of the, the suffering that goes 103 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,560 on around the world. And like, how can there be a God 104 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,480 if, you know, children are being killed, mothers are being killed 105 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,560 and all that. And I just brought up the point 106 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,480 that it's interesting that people often don't even use 107 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,120 their own suffering to, to discount, you know, the 108 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,400 existence of God. They use other people's other 109 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,000 people's suffering. Meanwhile, in those in those 110 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,960 areas, that's probably where you see the strongest, strongest 111 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,520 faith and relating that to the sermon. 112 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,840 It's. I'm trying to remember where I 113 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:03,360 was trying to go with this point but. 114 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,120 It makes it seem meaningless, right? 115 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:11,320 Like, well, if if God is truly good and God is truly all 116 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,600 powerful and that's this was sort of the reasoning of of 117 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:15,920 someone who doesn't believe in God, right? 118 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,080 If God is all powerful and God is good, why is there suffering 119 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,040 since? OK, there go the. 120 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,080 Part. The part that you were saying 121 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,480 let us eat and drink for tomorrow we will die is like, 122 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:33,080 yeah, if, if I also don't think there's a God that exists that 123 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,840 promises only peace and only, you know, a good life. 124 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:41,280 Like if, if that's the God that he's discounting. 125 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:44,280 I agree that God doesn't exist like our our God. 126 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:47,880 He does allow suffering and ultimately it's always, you 127 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,320 know, to fulfill his plan and his goal. 128 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,960 But I just think, yeah, like it's, it goes back to that point 129 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:01,400 about it's not a matter of of if, it's when people will, will 130 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,040 realize that Jesus is, is raining. 131 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,080 And that's, yeah, that's kind of the point I was trying to make 132 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:08,280 with that. No, it's good. 133 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:10,240 I think like it too. Like you talk about suffering, 134 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,280 like would it be like a really? I don't know if life would be 135 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,480 even worth living if you didn't have something to like, to like 136 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,600 compare good to right? Like in my mind, it's like good 137 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,320 and evil are two different things, right? 138 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,440 And but like, you don't know what good is unless you've 139 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,920 experienced some kind of like suffering some kind of pain to 140 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,600 understand the opposite of it. And so like, you know, that's 141 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,720 the old thing saying you don't really know how good you have 142 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,040 it. You know, you start complaining 143 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,160 about everything you like in your life. 144 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,800 And you realize if you start to compare yourself towards, you 145 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,760 know, other other people who suffer more, it's like, you 146 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,240 realize, man, I really have it really good. 147 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,600 And so, yeah, I think that God for, for God to say, for, for 148 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,360 there to be like a, this vision of a God who would not allow any 149 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,040 suffering, to me that almost seems even more like horrible. 150 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:00,760 I don't know. It's like, not that not that we 151 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,520 want suffering to be like a primary thing. 152 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:03,960 We always obviously we want to be gone. 153 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,360 But like, like what we experience here, I think on 154 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:12,400 earth, like in, in, in the midst of the fall, What will that make 155 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,200 heaven seem like to us? We'll see the opposite, the 156 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,400 complete opposite of it. We'll be like, yeah, this is 157 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:22,000 amazing and we will be overcome by, you know, an all satisfying 158 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,880 God. So yeah, it's good. 159 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,800 Yeah. And then and I think for for us 160 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,760 as Christians, I mean, we see this in our own lives that you, 161 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,919 God can grow you in ways and suffering that I'm not. 162 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,000 I don't say to say that he can't when things are good is not the 163 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,880 right way to say it, but I think you understand what I'm saying. 164 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,679 It's like when, when things are, if everything just always goes 165 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,680 perfectly, then you know, there's ways in which you can't 166 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:47,960 grow. I I've used this example before 167 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:51,520 of like your kids. If if your kids, if your kid 168 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,560 just always gets what he wants, What does that kid turn into? 169 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:58,040 A spoiled brat? A spoiled brat exactly. 170 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,080 But this is sort of like, well, if we just got everything we 171 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,760 always wanted and everything went perfectly, we would be 172 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,520 spoiled rotten brats. That's exactly what we would be. 173 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,160 And I think God uses suffering, he uses hard times, he uses 174 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,240 difficulty and death, even in sickness and those sorts of 175 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,440 things to refine us and shape us. 176 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,160 And it leaves you like there's the already in the not yet 177 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,240 there's this idea that there's there's something that still is 178 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,120 yet to be fulfilled that we're waiting for that's better than 179 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,920 it is here. And I think the suffering, the 180 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,320 hardship, you know, that they leave us longing for that, for 181 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,520 that better, that better thing that's yet to come. 182 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,000 For sure, and I think if you view, you know, suffering from 183 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:47,800 from God's point of view is, is he he is willing to lose, you 184 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,560 know, 100 physically speaking, if, if that will lead 1 to 185 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,320 eternal life. Like if if you think about it 186 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,400 that way, like we would all agree that that's that's worth 187 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,440 it. Like if, say those hundred are 188 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,600 all saved, but he has to lose all 100 of them just to gain, 189 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,320 you know, one more for eternity. That's that's worth it. 190 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,240 Like that's. Yeah. 191 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,040 It's an easy, easy choice. Man, you just made me think like 192 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,400 before when you were talking about your boss, you're having 193 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,080 conversations like that. That's a heavy conversation. 194 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,960 I have like with a boss employee relationship. 195 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,520 So that that's pretty good. That's a pretty good 196 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,760 relationship we got there. Yeah, yeah, He he was very open 197 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,640 to to talking about. I didn't make very good points, 198 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,680 I'll admit. Like I I thought of all this 199 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:33,720 after, but during I was like, yeah, OK, I didn't have very 200 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,840 many great points, but it it at least kind of gives you 201 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,640 something to think about. Gives you something to think 202 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:40,840 about. Also gives you like an 203 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,240 opportunity, like, to think about like, how can I, how can I 204 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,840 weave some of this into conversations in the future? 205 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,480 How can I be, like, sensitive to this in his life? 206 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,360 And when we go in, when he's going through something, how can 207 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,560 I speak truth into it? It's good. 208 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,400 Yeah, it's really good. People are going through so 209 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,880 much. And the fact that someone was 210 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,320 willing to open up says a lot about you. 211 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,520 It says that, you know, hey, he recognizes that you are a 212 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,200 believer. And even if we are criticized, 213 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:09,680 Joe Joe's talking about criticism a lot. 214 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,640 Even if we are criticized, sometimes people criticize us 215 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,640 because they recognize something in us that's different, right. 216 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,040 So like, maybe you're moved the holes in the golf course to the 217 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,720 wrong spot. They maybe they think you're 218 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,480 like, I don't know, like just someone who's like mean or 219 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,120 whatever. And it's like trying to do them 220 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,000 wrong. But now they recognize something 221 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,360 in you that they that they that they don't have a lot of times. 222 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:31,960 And that's just people reaching out that way. 223 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,280 So. Yeah. 224 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,280 Yeah. Well, I sort of a question that 225 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,240 Jake asked towards the end of his sermon was, has the 226 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,600 resurrection affected my life? And that's sort of been like 227 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,200 when I was for my sermon too. It's like, OK, well, what does? 228 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,200 Because mine was heavy on the resurrection as well. 229 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,640 It's like, well, what does the resurrection, how does that 230 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,760 really affect us, right. Like what's the application, you 231 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,920 know, how does it change how we live? 232 00:11:57,560 --> 00:11:59,880 And I think that's a really good question to ask. 233 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:03,600 We sort of had a question come in from a listener, right? 234 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,640 Yeah, about similar, similar along that same vein. 235 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,920 Well, it was, yeah. And so this, this person was 236 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,520 just mentioning that, you know, all this time we've like, so the 237 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,560 last three sermons we've really been emphasizing the gospel. 238 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:19,880 And you know, you touched on the resurrection quite a bit in your 239 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,200 sermon. And then Jake and my sermons 240 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,400 were both like 100% on the resurrection. 241 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,960 And I guess I even realized this for myself that I, I guess I've 242 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,920 been sort of neglecting the resurrection too. 243 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,680 But that's what this person is saying that, you know, I talk 244 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,400 about the fallen nature, I talk about our sin. 245 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,840 I think about that often. And then I often talk and think 246 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,440 about how Jesus died for our sins and took our place and 247 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,960 emphasizing that part. But then it's almost like we 248 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,000 don't really talk about the resurrection, or it seems to be 249 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,520 like an afterthought, or we're not actively thinking about it. 250 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,000 We talked about last week, you might be embarrassed to even 251 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:53,800 bring it up. Right? 252 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,400 Like, exactly. Oh, you believe. 253 00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,080 You believe that guy came back to life. 254 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:01,960 So yeah, exactly. Right. 255 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,360 But it is a it is central to the gospel. 256 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,080 Like, I mean, we have to, we have to believe that Jesus rose 257 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:09,600 from the dead. Otherwise, I mean, that's Paul's 258 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,480 whole point in this whole chapter, that otherwise our 259 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,800 faith is completely meaningless. But this person asked the 260 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:20,440 question, how do I how do we emphasize the importance of the 261 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,400 resurrection more? And what is a What's the best 262 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,960 way to bring it up and share it in conversations with 263 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,920 unbelievers? That's a good question. 264 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,600 I think like I think going back to that verse at the at the end 265 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:40,160 of Jake's passage 32 talking about like if the dead are not 266 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,520 raised, then let us eat, drink for tomorrow, we die. 267 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,400 I think to me when I read that, like, I don't know, in my flesh, 268 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,600 I think, yeah, it sounds like a great, great life. 269 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,560 Just do whatever I want to do and then it's over. 270 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,880 But really, it's a hopeless life, right? 271 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,000 That seems like to me like, oh, yeah, that's like a nihilism and 272 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,760 it's hopeless. And the resurrection, the, the 273 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,720 way we bring it up is like this is like Jesus died for sinners. 274 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,720 We've we found that out at the very beginning of chapter 15. 275 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,880 We found it out way before that. But Paul like hammers that point 276 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,880 home, right. And then he talks about being 277 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,080 raised, that the, the being raised part, Christ being raised 278 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,920 from the dead is where our hope in, in salvation comes. 279 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,280 Like that is the that what pastor, pastor Jake was talking 280 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,520 about the defeat of death. He he defeated death. 281 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,080 You know, death is dead, like, which is, you know, weird to 282 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,200 say, but like, and when his heart started beating on the 283 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,000 third day, he had conquered death. 284 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,800 And therefore, because of that, we can live with, like, this 285 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,600 hope that this isn't all there is. 286 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,200 Like, we can live with this hope that this suffering that we 287 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:53,400 experience is going to end. There will be something on the 288 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,160 other side. I may never see the end of my 289 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,880 suffering, you know what I mean? But like, yeah, eventually we 290 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,440 will. Yeah, And just like, you know, 291 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,320 Christ was the first fruits, he was the the first to be 292 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,560 resurrected, we're invited to now join in that and like we 293 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,480 have an opportunity to be resurrected as well. 294 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,080 Like that's where the hope is because, you know, if we share 295 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,160 Jesus dying on the cross for someone, somebody who doesn't, 296 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,640 who doesn't believe in Christ, they're going to say, well, I 297 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,520 didn't ask him to do that for me. 298 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,400 What does that do for me? But the resurrection is where 299 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,400 like, OK, well, that's maybe the biggest fear of of humankind is, 300 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,560 oh, I don't I don't want to die. Like where where am I going to 301 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,000 go? We have the answer or the Bible 302 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,840 has the answer to that, that question. 303 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,600 Like we have an opportunity to to live after this life. 304 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,240 Yeah, that's good. Yeah. 305 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,120 And I think just including that, you know, to the question about 306 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,680 like, how do we include this in our like when we talk with 307 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,480 people? I would say probably the first 308 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,080 and most practical thing would just be like it you should just 309 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,200 include it in your gospel presentation, right? 310 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,520 Like if you're going to be sharing the gospel with people. 311 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,960 Yeah. Talk about sin, talk about our 312 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,280 fallenness, talk about how Christ died for our sins. 313 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,680 But then don't forget that he rose from the dead, which proved 314 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,680 that he had authority to do what he did. 315 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,360 He proved the authority to forgive sins and be the 316 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,080 sacrifice for. Sin and his authority over 317 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:17,560 everything, right? Yeah, exactly. 318 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,880 That's a really good point. Joe and so like you, that 319 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,920 actually is the you, you actually haven't reached the 320 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,880 climax of the story until Christ has risen from the grave, right? 321 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,400 And so you, you sort of like otherwise you're just leaving 322 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,200 Jesus in the grave, so to speak. You know, he's he's stuck there 323 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,920 in the grave, having paid for our sin. 324 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,920 It's like, you know, like some guy, you know, took my place in 325 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,560 my crime and so he's in jail for me. 326 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,480 You know, like that's that's not it, right? 327 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,280 Like he died and then he rose from the dead. 328 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,080 And he's actually like, like you said, he has all authority in 329 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,960 heaven and earth. And so that's like the 330 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,360 completion of the story, like you said, Anthony, that we now 331 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,160 have hope that goes beyond the grave, right? 332 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,040 That's why we have hope that we'll raise. 333 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,760 We'll be raised from the dead to be in heaven. 334 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,560 Yeah, I, I pastor Jake Moon is in a certainty to really good 335 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,440 job of like, like talking about the disciples and like how they 336 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,440 felt like it was over, you know what I mean? 337 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,880 And like the resurrection happened and like proof that it 338 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:14,599 wasn't over. Like about like if, if if Jesus 339 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:17,119 had not risen from the dead, then those guys just would have 340 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,160 been like, so I, I saw when I was preaching through that, I 341 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,400 was thinking, you know, that's, that's something to think about. 342 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,280 Like the disciples are just hanging out, like all hope is 343 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,400 gone, right. And then I, I love he brought up 344 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,440 the first fruits thing when Pastor Jake referenced 345 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,160 Leviticus. Maybe we should go and preach 346 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,400 through Leviticus soon. It'd be a lot of fun. 347 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,320 It'd be a lot of fun. I think we'd learn a lot. 348 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,200 We'd understand more of this sacrifice. 349 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,840 The sacrificial system that that was set up in in like the Jews 350 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,760 had is what Jesus fulfilled. And so for us to not like to 351 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,080 neglect that would be detrimental to us as Christians 352 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,160 and believers. But I think it's very important 353 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,640 for and Pastor Jake did a great job referencing back talking 354 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,120 about like why we why the first fruit matters? 355 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:06,240 Why did Paul talk about that? Like it he's not just a first 356 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,760 fruit type, You know, this, he's the first of many. 357 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,400 He's, he's like the best of all of us. 358 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,680 Like, you know, he, he's died of human life. 359 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,840 But he he did it and and he did it first. 360 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,160 And so, yeah, I just thought it was really good that he brought 361 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:19,520 that out. Yeah. 362 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,000 Yeah, yeah. And it's just like, I mean, the 363 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,520 resurrection is, yeah, I, I like we talked about this last week 364 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,760 already. I and and I just didn't even 365 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,880 realize for myself, like in the moment, like how vital this is. 366 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,160 And like I to sort of sympathize with the listener's comment that 367 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,520 man, I feel like I've sort of done the same thing too. 368 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,400 It's like you talk so much about Jesus death for sin that you 369 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,640 don't emphasize enough his resurrection. 370 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,960 And I just, yeah, I I've just been so blessed to to really 371 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,920 slow down in this, this portion of the letter and hitting on all 372 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,440 these topics and on all these subjects and just really being 373 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,240 able to emphasize the resurrection. 374 00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:59,400 It's been really, really, really good. 375 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,240 I think it's one of the things that expository preaching does. 376 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,160 It allows you to not skip over like things that you may may 377 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,680 hit. You know, we, we would probably 378 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,320 if we were just going to preach the sermon one off in First 379 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,920 Corinthians, we might have chosen, I don't know, any of the 380 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:20,280 1st 7 chapters to hammer home all those talking about the sin 381 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,640 of the Corinth, the church in Corinth and all that stuff. 382 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,800 And like, don't be like Corinth. But then Paul, like preaching 383 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,600 through the whole book has given us an opportunity to like preach 384 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,280 this whole council, which has been really fun. 385 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,040 So. Yeah, and people don't even 386 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,200 realize how long we've been in it. 387 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,360 I know I, I said in my sermon last week that we've been in 388 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,240 this book for like 7 months. And I was talking with somebody 389 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,760 the other day who was referencing something that they 390 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,400 had remembered that you had said it, Jonah. 391 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,920 And they're like, I think it was in Ephesians or something like 392 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,040 that. It was a few months ago. 393 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,920 I'm like, Nah, I was, it was still First Corinthians. 394 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,360 And it's funny because I could remember it too. 395 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:54,560 I think it was somewhere back in like 10 or 11 or something. 396 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,720 It was about the Lord's Supper. But anyway, I just was. 397 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,400 Like, that wasn't even that long ago, really. 398 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,360 I'm like, yeah, that's funny. We've been here for a while. 399 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:04,440 Yeah, for sure. You're talking about the. 400 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:06,320 Did you have a point? I'm sorry. 401 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,600 I'm going to cut you off if you had something. 402 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,000 To no, yeah, I was just going to kind of reiterate what Joe said. 403 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,560 I was very convicted to of how little I think of the 404 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,320 resurrection and some thoughts that kind of came up for me were 405 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:26,080 like, what role does my doubt of the of the salvation play and 406 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,280 why I don't talk about it more like is it is it because I'm 407 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,480 scared to be laughed? It's pretty easy to argue that 408 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,360 somebody died for me, but it's it's kind of a whole nother 409 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,480 thing to say. Like I believe that he rose from 410 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,040 the grave like it's. Right. 411 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,480 What? What role does doubt play in in? 412 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,600 That well, I think it's natural to doubt that, right, like or to 413 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,640 even have like thoughts, questions about it, honestly, 414 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,080 because it's so rare. Like like we don't see, we don't 415 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,120 see resurrections anymore. Like we see resuscitations, 416 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,800 right? We see like people who are 417 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,840 revived in hospitals after being like, quote UN quote, dead for 418 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,840 for minutes. That's a resuscitation. 419 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,080 It's not like a a resurrection, like, like Jesus was dead for 420 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,800 three days, Lazarus was dead for days. 421 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,960 Jairus's daughter was dead for maybe minutes, maybe. 422 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,160 I don't know. It doesn't say those things that 423 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,640 the pastor Jake mentioned in his sermon. 424 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,320 It's so rare. So it's I think like, that's for 425 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:29,520 me. That's that's where I come to 426 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,000 like, yeah, it is weird. I mean, you think about this 427 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,440 like the supernatural aspect of it is, is strange. 428 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,600 And so I think it's natural to have like good healthy doubt. 429 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,400 Well, I don't know that it's all like, and realistically 430 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,320 speaking, is it any more unrealistic than than saying 431 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,000 that he died for the sin of all mankind? 432 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,720 You know, like that's, that's pretty like wild too, right? 433 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,920 You know? Who, who, who has the authority 434 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,760 to forgive sins but God alone, right? 435 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,280 And so that's basically like that's also very, very rare and 436 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,720 strange. I feel like maybe it's just 437 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,240 something in our mind that like we just, I don't know where. 438 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,400 I It's the physical nature of it. 439 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,040 I think. I, I think that's what that's 440 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,040 what causes us to, to like, make it like bigger in our mind than 441 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:15,720 the other. Yeah, yeah. 442 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,440 Because the one in all reality, the one proves the other right? 443 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,560 Like, and what I mean by that is so yeah, we, we even if we say 444 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,800 all the time that Jesus died for our sin, I mean, that's OK. 445 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,960 The resurrection proves that. So it's like sort of to Paul's 446 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,360 point, it's like if the resurrection isn't true, then 447 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,480 still he just died. And so it still means nothing. 448 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,800 And so the resurrection actually proves that he had the authority 449 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,560 to forgive sins by way of being the sacrifice because of his 450 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,440 resurrection. And so I, I think, I think it's 451 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,320 just probably a mental shift that needs to happen in our 452 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,600 mind. But I get what you're saying 453 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,520 about the doubt because, you know, at the end of the day, we 454 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,920 can't, none of us can prove that it happened, right? 455 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,800 I mean, we can't, we can't go back in time and know for sure 456 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,800 That's, and I think there's an element of that that's just 457 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,000 faith. And the reason we doubt is 458 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,480 because faith is exactly that. It's faith. 459 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,320 It's like it's not seeing, it's believing even though I don't 460 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,680 see. And so it's having the faith to 461 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,520 believe in. And I, I think I've been talking 462 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,480 with people about this recently. I don't know if it's if we've 463 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,240 said it in the podcast or if it just came up with a 464 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,080 conversation, but I, I think some people think that's a cop 465 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,040 out for Christians to say, oh, it just takes faith. 466 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,520 Because an atheist would say, well, yeah, that's just an easy 467 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,400 cop out to say, well, it takes faith. 468 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,560 I don't think it's a cop out because I I think it's 469 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,160 scriptural. You know, Jesus, God that 470 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,320 literally says that in Hebrews. You know that. 471 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,320 There's a whole chapter on people like. 472 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:45,920 With the people who believed, right? 473 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,520 Abraham got sent out and he went out not knowing where he was 474 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,200 going, and he just chose to believe and he had faith. 475 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,040 And Hebrews 11/6 actually says without faith it is impossible 476 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,640 to please God. And so I think we just got to 477 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,320 accept that that there's an element of faith that we just 478 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,280 have to believe, even though we don't know for sure, but we 479 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:07,600 stand on the truth of God's Word. 480 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,040 Yeah, I was talking to, I was leading young adults the other 481 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,440 night and we came up, we came across the text where Abraham 482 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,520 and Isaac, I, he, Abraham is told to go sacrifice Isaac. 483 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,600 And this idea that I've never, I didn't make this connection 484 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,480 until recently. But like that, Abraham's faith 485 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,280 in that moment was also a resurrection faith. 486 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,440 So like this, our faith in in the promise, it's always been 487 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,120 sort of a resurrection faith. But the reason it was because 488 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,440 Abraham believed that God had the power to resurrect Isaac if 489 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,280 he had gone through with the sacrifice. 490 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,120 And we learned that in Hebrews. It's not something that we 491 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,120 made-up. Hebrews 11 tells us that 492 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:51,200 Abraham, his faith that God could raise from the dead is, is 493 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,800 the reason that Abraham's listed in that that chapter of, of 494 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,400 those people who are considered the most faithful. 495 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,320 And so like, I think it's, it's important for us to remember 496 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,280 that our faith has always been a resurrection faith, always been 497 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,640 this idea that God can can do way more than we even like, can 498 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,600 imagine and think about. So, yeah, it's good. 499 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,600 We're talking about important things. 500 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,400 And you've been, you've said this several times today, like 501 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,640 how central the resurrection is to our faith. 502 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,000 And then we had a question come in because in my sermon a couple 503 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,920 weeks back, I said something about theological triage. 504 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,680 And so we had this question come in from, from one of our church 505 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,760 members asking like, what are the primary things like? 506 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,320 So the triage for Albert Mohler, popular, popular resident, I 507 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,000 think he came up with an article way back talking about like this 508 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,360 idea of triage and, and thinking about like all the theological 509 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:51,000 things in like in a framework so that you can kind of get your 510 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,440 mind. How do we, how do we like 511 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,600 fellowship with people who have different ideas about different 512 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,520 doctrines than us? Like what is required for us to 513 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,280 be able to like I just said this, what is required for me as 514 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,880 a Baptist to come and be a pastor at a Mennonite church, 515 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,720 right? Like that's, there's, there's 516 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,280 certain things that I would have to like say, OK, these are 517 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,480 things that that we have to be sure we agreed on. 518 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,320 And then these are things we have room to to disagree on or, 519 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,200 or, and to still work together. And so like the question was 520 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,680 like, what are the primary things? 521 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,800 So you said 1. So do you have any other? 522 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,840 So he could he listed out like salvation. 523 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,160 We have to believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. 524 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,240 Basically the things in 15-1 to 11. 525 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,440 Well, I, I know, like, I mean, you sort of, you sort of 526 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,000 mentioned like, I don't know, we were talking a little bit about 527 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,920 this before we started the podcast, but there are central 528 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,200 things to our faith. But you sort of realize how 529 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,760 many, I don't want to call them Gray areas, but just different 530 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,320 beliefs there are right? And so. 531 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,000 It's very narrow, like the primary thing. 532 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,000 Tier 1 is very narrow. Yeah. 533 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,920 And so there there's a book that I would recommend to anybody who 534 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,120 would, who would want to read it before I right. 535 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,000 It's called Finding the Right Hills to Die On by Gavin 536 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,680 Ortland. And it's, it's really fleshing 537 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,680 out this idea. I think the whole point is 538 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,480 finding the right hills to die. Like don't die on a hill that's 539 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,640 not worth dying on. You know, like there are certain 540 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,080 issues that it's like we just have differing, we have 541 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,880 different beliefs. And I think the mistake that 542 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,040 some people make is they, they take some of those issues and 543 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,760 they think they assume that their position is the correct 544 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,840 position. And so therefore, anybody else 545 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:41,440 who thinks differently is wrong. And that is wrong when you have 546 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,720 two differing beliefs, let's say mode of baptism, like what 547 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,600 baptism, you know, whether it's dunking or whatever, just use it 548 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,880 as an example. There are two, 2, two or three 549 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,920 different frameworks. Some people would say 550 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,000 sprinkling's OK. Some people would say it has to 551 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,880 be immersion. Some people would say, well, you 552 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,480 can baptize babies or we should baptize babies. 553 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:09,120 And so each of those people has a, they're looking at baptism 554 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:11,880 through what they think is a biblically faithful lens. 555 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,120 So those are three different ways of viewing baptism. 556 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,840 And so I just, you don't hang your hat on that, right? 557 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:24,320 And you don't make that like a. Yeah, don't hang your hat on it, 558 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,640 but I had a conversation with a family member and they were 559 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,000 they've been going to a Presbyterian Church to become 560 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,320 members of a Presbyterian Church. 561 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,640 They're baptized as believers, but they have children, right 562 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,120 And so like that aren't that haven't been baptized yet. 563 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,880 This church will allow them to wait until they are professing 564 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,160 believers if that's their conviction, which I think is 565 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,600 good. I think this is like this is 566 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,120 like triage in action. Like if you conviction is that 567 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,440 that you need to be baptized as a believer, like this pastor in 568 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,400 this church has like said, OK, that's fine. 569 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,200 We'll we'll baptize whenever they're believers, but like we 570 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,600 were just discussing it made me laugh because like my, my wife's 571 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,400 cousin said, yeah, I'm, I'm teen infant baptism now and we're 572 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,480 like. Whoa, whoa, whoa. 573 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,200 You can't, you can't just make that call us. 574 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,440 They're like, anyway, it was a it was a funny, funny like 575 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,160 instance of conversation about this. 576 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,000 But I think like it's important for us to think about the 577 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,520 primary. So the primary would be. 578 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:20,960 I would. There's things that are 579 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,760 essential for salvation, which are the Trinity. 580 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,080 Like we, we have to have a triune God. 581 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,280 We have to have Christ who who is fully God and yet fully man. 582 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,640 Yeah, so we can't deny the divinity of Christ, right? 583 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,840 And so the, the incarnation, right? 584 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,680 Like that, that Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, 585 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,120 things like that. Justification by faith alone, 586 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,560 right? We're saved by faith, not by 587 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:51,280 works. Things like that, The 588 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,880 resurrection we've been talking about the authority of 589 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,880 Scripture. Yeah, I think that's you. 590 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,480 You brought that one up before Anthony in our conversation that 591 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,280 like, what would you say that the Bible how where does the 592 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,840 Bible fit in all of it? Isn't it like important or not? 593 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,400 Yeah, it's. It's pretty important. 594 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,480 It's yeah, it's the authority. It's it's yeah, it's true. 595 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,520 It's it doesn't need to. Nothing needs to be added to it 596 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,480 like it's it's profitable for teaching reproof everything. 597 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,280 It's it is, it is the the thing. It is how God revealed himself 598 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,040 to us. Yeah, like in a special way. 599 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,800 It's the only way we know. God, right? 600 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,560 We'll we would know him, the general and special revelation. 601 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,880 But yeah, he's exactly right. It's the way that we know him, 602 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,880 the way, you know, in the way we do. 603 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,280 Yeah. So it may sound crazy, but yeah, 604 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,520 I think I think you're right. So like the Bible being primary 605 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,280 as far as the way that God revealed himself to us, we 606 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,400 believe it's inherent. We believe it's totally 607 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,960 profitable for all teaching and reproof. 608 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,960 It is. It is the place to go to find 609 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,560 out how we're supposed to live as Christians. 610 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,040 It doesn't answer all the questions that we have as far as 611 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,400 things go, but it gives us a framework in which we can live 612 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,200 and we can we can guide ourselves. 613 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,360 So I don't know man, that there. It's very narrow as far as the 614 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,600 primary thing. It is and, and So what that 615 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,880 means is that in other areas we can have differing agreements 616 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,560 and still have fellowship. And one specific one that just 617 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,000 came to mind is creation. Like you can believe that God 618 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,760 created the world in six days, 24 hour periods. 619 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,400 You can also believe that God created the world. 620 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,800 And that phrase is very important in like ages. 621 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,720 And we can still be have fellowship with one another. 622 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:39,120 It's totally fine because the central part of that creation is 623 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,440 that God created the world. Like we can't deny that God 624 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,840 created the world. I also think you can't deny that 625 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,760 that there was one Adam, one Eve. 626 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,200 Like there was like there was one of each at the beginning. 627 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,640 Those are things you can't deny about creation. 628 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,400 But as far as the age of the earth, I don't really care if 629 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,040 you think it's six days. I don't care if you think it's 630 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,520 millions of years. But there are people who will 631 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,200 make that a primary issue and they'll question my salvation if 632 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,560 I say it's a long time, which is it's fine, but I I'm happy to 633 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,280 have those conversations with people, but that's not 634 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,600 something. Primary well, and I think that's 635 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,520 that's like to your point, I think the whole point of 636 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,360 theological triage is the ability to say I believe that 637 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,280 you're a Christian. I disagree with that belief. 638 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,400 And you know, I guess just to bring up a really contentious 639 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,440 one, because I feel like this is one that comes up quite 640 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,640 regularly here at our churches, the Calvinism and Arminianism, 641 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,120 right? And so even me just saying that 642 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,600 you know who, depending on who's listening you, you might have 643 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,120 differing beliefs. You may have just gotten 644 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,120 butterflies in your stomach. Don't worry. 645 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,360 And, and, and the, The thing is, one of the things about this 646 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,560 topic is when you hear those words, you ask 10 people what 647 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,680 Calvinism is or Armenianism is, and you're going to get 10 648 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,000 different answers. And so the first thing we have 649 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,320 to do when we're having those sorts of conversations is we 650 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,040 have to talk about terms and what we mean when we use those 651 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,600 words so that we're talking about the same thing because 652 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,520 everybody's heard it, taught differently and heard different 653 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,440 nuances of it. But the point is like, we can, 654 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,760 we can disagree on those things. Like our church is not a 655 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,920 Calvinist or an Armenian church. Our we're, we're a church that 656 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,440 believes the Bible is true. And those are just frameworks 657 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,960 through which we see Scripture. And so it isn't about, you know, 658 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,120 analyzing the details of each of those views, but it's 659 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,680 understanding that those are frameworks through which we can 660 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,280 see the Bible. And so we can have someone who 661 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,240 is a Calvinist or someone who is an Armenian and we can have 662 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,120 fellowship together because we say, I believe you're a 663 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,640 Christian because you're baptized on the confession that 664 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,400 Jesus Christ is Lord. You believe in the Trinity, you 665 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,440 believe in the Bible, you believe in justification by 666 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,400 faith. We just disagree on this, this, 667 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,680 this work of salvation and, and how, how exactly it functions, 668 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,000 but it doesn't change the essence of our faith. 669 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,200 And so we can fellowship together. 670 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,040 And I would say we do fellowship together. 671 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,080 We have people who are in both camps in our church and that's 672 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,600 not an issue that we're that's not a hill we're going to die 673 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,680 on. You know, like we can fellowship 674 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,800 together and we can praise God together because it doesn't, it 675 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,280 doesn't change how we function. We still all believe that we 676 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,120 have to witness and we have to share the gospel with people. 677 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,600 And we still, we still all believe that we have to come and 678 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,120 we have to worship. And so all those, it doesn't 679 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,400 change the essence of your faith. 680 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,920 And so I think I think those that's a really good example of 681 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,159 one where it's like we can just, we can have differing beliefs, 682 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,360 but still fellowship. Yeah, it's and it, it's good for 683 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,360 us to be able to like recognize those things as secondary or 684 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,040 tertiary. Thirdly, I don't know how you 685 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,040 say it, tertiary is the word, but like trying to use a word 686 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,080 that's smaller. But yeah, so like we have to 687 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,320 recognize those and be willing to like say, OK, yeah, that is a 688 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,920 secondary issue. And I'm getting really worked up 689 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,480 about something that's secondary. 690 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,080 And let's let's let's figure out where we agree. 691 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,640 How can we fellowship, love each other? 692 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,720 Well, because like that's that, that honestly, that is the 693 00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:03,400 biggest thing is like when someone makes this like a 694 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:09,520 secondary or a third or tertiary thing, primary, then then like 695 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,800 fists come out, right? You you put put up your 696 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,600 defenses, your guard comes up, people get angry. 697 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,000 Relationships and families are broken When you're making 698 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,280 something that's not meant to be primary, primary things, bad 699 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,640 things happen. And I think what's important to 700 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,840 do when you're having those conversations is obviously to 701 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,160 drop your pride. But also like I've heard going 702 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,920 on the same issue, like Calvinism and Arminianism, I've 703 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,120 heard both sides. I've heard people when they 704 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,080 start arguing, they say, well, I'm not a Calvinist. 705 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,280 I just I. Believe the Bible. 706 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,720 Believe the Bible what they're were, and I've heard it on both 707 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:48,200 sides. What they're doing by saying 708 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,560 that is they're saying that you're not. 709 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,720 You don't believe that someone else doesn't? 710 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,560 Reading the, you're basically saying that they're not saved, 711 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,240 which that's what we're getting at. 712 00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,160 Like it's not, that's not a salvation, it's not a primary 713 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,920 issue. So you can't with those issues, 714 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,480 you can't now go up to them and say that they're not saved. 715 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,000 That's when it just gets contentious and you're not going 716 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,320 to, you're not going to get anywhere. 717 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,640 Like you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they 718 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,200 are genuinely reading their Bible and that's the conclusion 719 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,760 they came to. And then you can argue from 720 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,800 there what what you believe and you can talk through it that 721 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:25,800 way. But if you're going to start 722 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,440 there, you're you may as well not even that's true. 723 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,800 Not Even so true. And there are times, you know, 724 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,000 in, in certain secondary issues where it doesn't mean that it 725 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,080 doesn't when two people disagree on a secondary issue, they can 726 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,800 separate peacefully. And because it may affect, you 727 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,120 know, like I, I would say, but let's say, for instance, like a 728 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,600 woman being a pastor, you know, here at this church, we believe 729 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,400 that pastors are to be called men. 730 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,600 And so we wouldn't agree with a woman pastor. 731 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,200 And that's an issue where, I mean, I can look at another 732 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,880 church and go, you know, I, I think they're preaching a true 733 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,920 gospel. I believe they're saved. 734 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,360 I believe that they're people are growing in their faith in 735 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,520 that church, But I'm not going to go to that church if a woman 736 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,480 is a pastor because I don't think that's biblically 737 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,400 faithful. And so, so there there's, I 738 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,160 think that's sort of the point that we're getting at. 739 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,080 We have to have some way of determining, OK, well, are you a 740 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,120 Christian? And that's where the, the 741 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,680 primary issues come in. This is this is the gospel, like 742 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,880 a gospel issue. That's where that term comes 743 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,920 from. This is something that's central 744 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,560 to our faith in Christ. And here are issues that sort of 745 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,080 that they begin to affect how we function and how we operate in 746 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,520 the church. And there are times where that 747 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,000 that is OK to separate. But I think you need to 748 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,760 acknowledge that that they, they can be believers who think 749 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,960 differently from you, which is important because you're going 750 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,080 to be in heaven with a lot of people that you disagreed with. 751 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,680 Yeah, for sure. And I think the secondary things 752 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,080 like baptism is a secondary thing, but that would mean that 753 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:04,280 I would have a hard time like joining a Presbyterian Church, 754 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,840 even though I would consider myself Baptitterian, like in my, 755 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,720 in my theology and the way that I believe the Bible works, I 756 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:13,760 would have a hard time because they don't believe in believers 757 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,640 baptism. You know, it's like a, they 758 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,240 believe that they could baptize babies and then they're 759 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:20,440 confirmed later in life, whether they are a believer or not. 760 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,040 So I, I get it. But at the same time, it would 761 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,120 be, it would hard, be hard for me to worship consistently and 762 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:27,480 become a member of a church that way. 763 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,480 Because if I become a member of that church, that means I'm 764 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,440 going to agree on all of these things. 765 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,960 So unless it was like the one that I was talking about earlier 766 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,080 where they, they allow for you to have different views on 767 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,720 secondary issues and they're they're OK with it. 768 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,240 Yeah, I think it's, it's important. 769 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,720 We don't need to make the primary or the secondary things 770 00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:48,880 primary. And I think it's important to 771 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,880 note too, that those things are like, there are secondary issues 772 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,040 that are very important and we should like work through them. 773 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,520 But I think the only thing that we can do is we, we can look at 774 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,440 the fruit of, you know, the people that believe those things 775 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,600 like what are, what is their ministry leading to? 776 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,480 Or what do those beliefs lead to them just slowly relaxing on 777 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,880 more and more things. Because that's often what you 778 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,480 see with with some of these things. 779 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,640 They'll start maybe with something secondary, but then 780 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,600 they kind of become more OK with just letting more things go. 781 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,880 And it leads. But it's not that secondary 782 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,520 issue that that was really the prime issue. 783 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,800 It's that they kept going further. 784 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,200 Right. So you have to just, you know, I 785 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,000 think we all just have to be praying that if, you know, 786 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,720 there's anything in our theology that we're wrong on, that God 787 00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:48,280 would help us through our reading to to realize that and 788 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,360 to just continue growing. But not to. 789 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,760 Yeah, to be ruining our relationships because of. 790 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,000 Disagreement. Yeah, it's definitely not worth 791 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,960 it to to blow up your family over secondary things. 792 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,480 We got good examples like our professors you mentioned, like 793 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,440 praying and asking God to reveal to you when your theology goes 794 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,160 one way or the other. We have, we just have. 795 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,040 I was just thinking about professors who say, yeah, I 796 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,440 changed my view on this. They would say that in class I I 797 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,680 had this view and I actually wrote this in a commentary. 798 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,280 Ten years ago, but I don't agree with myself anymore and I've 799 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,640 changed my my view and now I'm at, you know, that publisher's 800 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,360 actually doing a revision on this commentary for to, to 801 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,080 review, to revise this one point. 802 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,120 This is very important to everything. 803 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,880 Just like, you know, it takes a lot of humility. 804 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,840 It does, Yeah, for sure to not just like dig your heels in 805 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,760 well. And I, and I think this is an 806 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,640 important conversation because you're never going to find the 807 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,160 perfect church, right? Like I had someone asking me a 808 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,960 question, some questions a few weeks ago about certain things. 809 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,160 And, and I, I just said to this person, you know, you'll never 810 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,080 find the perfect church. And, and if you want to find a 811 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,240 church that's just legalistic about everything and has a 812 00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:59,440 million rules about everything that you need to be doing and 813 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,720 not doing. And you're just never going to 814 00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:03,400 find a church that you agree with on everything. 815 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,560 And This is why this conversation is so helpful 816 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,280 because, you know, we think we're a biblically faithful 817 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,680 church. And so we would encourage people 818 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,760 to come here. We, we think that here at LEMC, 819 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,240 you can grow spiritually. And we're, we're continuing to 820 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:16,520 grow. We, we realize that we're not 821 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,680 perfect, but we think that people can grow spiritually here 822 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,160 at this church. And whatever church that is, 823 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,400 even if it's another church in town or another church in the 824 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,880 area that you feel like is good to go to, so long as you think 825 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,160 they're rooted in the gospel and you think it's a place that you 826 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,000 can grow spiritually. You see the ministries and the 827 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,640 way they function, that they're rooted on the right things. 828 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,360 You may, you're not going to agree with everything they 829 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,240 believe or everything the pastor believes. 830 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,160 If there's going to be somebody on the leadership team that 831 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,960 thinks differently or whatever, you're going to have different 832 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,840 beliefs, but you need to have some way to say, you know what, 833 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,640 but this is a good, solid church. 834 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,040 I may not agree with everything, but I think this is a place 835 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,360 where I can root my family and we can grow. 836 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,680 And so that's really where the rubber hits the road with this 837 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,520 conversation where you're not going to find a perfect church 838 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,600 and you know this, but it is a place. 839 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:04,880 You can grow. Yeah. 840 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,320 The reason, the reason Moeller wrote that article in the 1st 841 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,040 place is he came into Southern Seminary and it was extremely 842 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,800 liberal theologically. There were professors on staff 843 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,840 that didn't believe in the physical resurrection at the 844 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,440 time. And that's the kind of thing 845 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,960 that like he had to like address on the front end. 846 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,520 Like these are the core things you have to believe in order to 847 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,960 be a professor here. So he fired a bunch of people, 848 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,520 which caused a bunch of problems. 849 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,760 But this is like what we have to, we have to make sure like 850 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,520 you have to believe that the resurrection was real, like 851 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,200 Jesus was physically raised. You have to believe that the 852 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,840 incarnation was real, like Jesus was born to a virgin, like the 853 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,000 virgin birth was true. Those are the, like you, these 854 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,760 are things that you have the whole salvation story, the, the 855 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,840 story of Jesus Christ as it's portrayed in the Gospels. 856 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,560 Those are things you have to believe. 857 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,800 You know, we have to believe that in order to be a Christian. 858 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,440 Everything else is, I mean, really everything else we can, 859 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,600 we can, we can talk about. And, and so I hope that was 860 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,320 helpful conversation. I think it was for me anyway, 861 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,760 just to talk about it some more for the, for the question that 862 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,280 came through. I hope that was something that 863 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,840 was helpful. Yeah, go ahead. 864 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:17,240 Expository preaching kind of naturally helps a church stay on 865 00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:21,400 that path because churches who maybe pick their topics that 866 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,600 they're talking about, they're going to pick topics that 867 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,920 they're passionate about, they're naturally going to be 868 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,320 swayed by their their bias about the. 869 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,480 Body but. When you're just going through 870 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:35,240 it, you have to deal with topics that you're maybe not sure of or 871 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:40,200 and even for as a, as a listener of the preaching here, like it's 872 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,560 made me have to to deal with issues that I hadn't thought of 873 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,120 before because you're not just hearing the the classic sermons 874 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,480 each year that are important. To the church leadership. 875 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,680 You're you're just going through everything and you deal with it. 876 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,800 As a yeah, that's true. And sometimes you just have to 877 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,200 say, I think Pastor Jake said it this way. 878 00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:00,720 Sometimes you just have to say, I don't know and it's OK, right? 879 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,640 It is OK. Like we have sometimes there 880 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,280 just comes to a point where you like you, it's time to preach. 881 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,320 And I haven't formed my view on this yet. 882 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,560 And sometimes you either have to read over it or you have to just 883 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,600 like, say, you know what? I, I really don't know. 884 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,480 This requires more study. But Paul's general point is 885 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,800 this. And I think he did a great job 886 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,480 with that this week. It was what I'd like to hear 887 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:23,080 more. Yeah. 888 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,680 I mean, I think everybody wants to know. 889 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,640 Like, that was a hard verse that he had to talk about. 890 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,240 Like we were talking about earlier, the one about baptizing 891 00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:31,600 on behalf of others that are dead. 892 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,520 I don't know. It's hard. 893 00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:36,080 What I would like to hear. Heard more. 894 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,600 Yes. But I, I don't know that I'd 895 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,440 have done any better. Like sometimes you just have to 896 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,720 say, you know what? I don't know, this requires more 897 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:47,000 study. 23 other people won't know either. 898 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,960 So let's just figure out what Paul's really the big picture is 899 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,760 and and go there. And that's what expository 900 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,360 preaching does. It humbles you like that. 901 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:56,880 Like when he's, when you were talking about that, I was 902 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,600 thinking because before I was like, man, I really wish we 903 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,040 could have gotten into that because I was like, I wanted to 904 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,840 know, but it humbles you because I don't know what I would have 905 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,520 said either. And don't pretend you know, 906 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,040 because that's what exactly. I'm OK with you picking a 907 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,440 position and saying, hey, I this is where I like leaned off the 908 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,320 strongest. You've done that before, Pastor 909 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,840 Joe, where you say, you know, there's room for like for us to 910 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,640 figure this out. But right now in my thinking, 911 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,360 this is what I think is the strongest thing. 912 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,720 That's OK too. But I think that's that's what 913 00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:29,200 exposes, it humbles you. Well, and that's that's the 914 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,360 hardest part about it, right, because like, you know, with 915 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,800 this verse is it is it going to impact the way we live? 916 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,440 I I don't, I don't know how much like baptizing, you know, people 917 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,280 being baptized in the path bath the dead. 918 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,040 I don't know. But when you come to other 919 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,640 topics where I think that's where it gets really hard 920 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,720 because I'm realizing that I'm having to say something about it 921 00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:54,360 and it may influence people in the decisions that they make, 922 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,960 massive decisions they make in their life, right. 923 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,200 And so there's. 450 adults that are listening on Sunday morning 924 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,920 in person who you're influencing. 925 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,240 Exactly. And so it's like you feel the 926 00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:07,400 weight of it, right? And it's, it's heavy. 927 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,720 And so you, you want to do the best that you can. 928 00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:12,960 But I think at the same time, sort of like you said, like you, 929 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,320 you want to be able to say something, right? 930 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,360 You don't want to, you realize that it's your job, right? 931 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,720 Right. And that sounds bad to say it 932 00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:27,040 that way, but God has called you to to shepherd and to lead. 933 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,520 And so you want to do that as faithfully as you can. 934 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,400 But we recognize that we're fallen and we're sinful, and we 935 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,960 can be wrong. Yeah, and I, but I think like 936 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,600 to, to Jake's credit, I think that the humility shown there 937 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,360 like to say, I don't know the answer to this question. 938 00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:42,640 That's a big thing. Like it's and it's, I think it's 939 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,920 important for a, for for us to project to our people is to say, 940 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,920 you know what? We don't have every single 941 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,680 answer. Like pastors are infallible. 942 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,920 The word is, you know, is not. And so like, I mean, maybe I 943 00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,640 said it the wrong is we are fallible. 944 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,440 Excuse me. And the word is infallible. 945 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,440 So like we just have to take like I loved what he said. 946 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,320 Like we can't build a theology on this one verse. 947 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,800 Like we it would be very dangerous for us to say this is 948 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,640 this is the the gospel truth when there is so much room for 949 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,520 for conversation about it. Like what is Paul talking about? 950 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,720 Is this something that that they were doing in court that we 951 00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:20,600 don't really have a clear picture about? 952 00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:25,840 And maybe that's helpful to decipher what issues are 953 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,480 primary, because those issues that we set our primary, it's 954 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,400 not hard to dig through the Bible and be like, OK, it's 955 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,480 pretty clear what's right here. But when, when it's very 956 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:41,760 unclear, then you know, God wouldn't leave us like his his 957 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,120 word is good. It's complete like it's, it 958 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,000 lacks nothing. He wouldn't leave us wondering 959 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,120 on an issue that's. That's right. 960 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,640 That's this as far as I know. And you, you, you said this 961 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,800 earlier, Anthony was like, as far as I know, this, this hasn't 962 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,920 brought up anywhere else. And so it's like it's, it'd be 963 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,560 hard for me to like to say something like very 964 00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:05,640 authoritative on it, right? We have to remember this is also 965 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,360 helpful for us to understand context. 966 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,040 Like we need to understand that letters are written to a 967 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:15,520 specific people, specific time for a specific reason. 968 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,040 So he's addressing something that we may not be Privy to. 969 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,160 So anyway, we're almost at 50 minutes, which is crazy. 970 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:27,520 I wanted to ask Anthony. Anthony, you are leading our one 971 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,040 of the youth leaders for our youth group. 972 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,120 How's it been going? You got you got like 5 or 6 kids 973 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,000 that are showing up on this on a random Friday night or. 974 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:37,800 Yeah, we've got a few more than that. 975 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:42,520 So last, like before this new school year, we were averaging 976 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,680 around 4040 to 50 on a really busy Friday. 977 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,240 That's a lot of kids. And since September, I think the 978 00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:52,920 first week we were back, we were close to 90. 979 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:58,960 That's a lot more kids. 90 kids and so we've just seen, you 980 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,640 know, a huge a huge jump in in numbers, a lot of new grade 981 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,320 nines and even just people bring in their friends. 982 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:09,840 So that's been interesting to navigate for sure. 983 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,360 It was already a lot of kids and we already didn't have, you 984 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,120 know, the enough leaders to to really pour into these kids. 985 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,280 So to go and double that number, but really keep our leaders the 986 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,600 same. It's been challenging, but it's 987 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:30,360 also we're thankful that God has blessed the ministry with with 988 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,600 these kids to to hear the gospel and that we can pour into. 989 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,840 So it's, it's been challenging, but we're yeah, like I. 990 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,480 Said So if you're an LEMC member or someone who attends here 991 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,160 faithfully and you would like to serve in the youth group, I'm 992 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,920 here and Anthony say we need more youth volunteers. 993 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,680 Even bigger than that, we, we met with someone to sort of help 994 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,680 us navigate these new numbers and we asked him, like, how do 995 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,720 we, how do we get more leaders? Like what are we doing wrong? 996 00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:06,400 And he, he pointed out a verse in Matthew that just talks about 997 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,240 how the harvest is plenty, but the workers are few. 998 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,400 And we're urged to, to pray for, for more workers. 999 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,000 And I was really convicted by that because I find it really 1000 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,440 easy to complain about a lack of leaders, but how often am I 1001 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,000 praying, praying for more leaders? 1002 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,400 So that's, I guess that's kind of my commitment to, to the 1003 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,800 church is that I'm, I'm committing to praying for, for 1004 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,400 more leaders. And all I would ask that, you 1005 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,640 know, our listeners would do is to be doing the same. 1006 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:41,720 But pray for if you feel a call on your heart, pray, pray about 1007 00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:43,960 that. Ponder on that. 1008 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,400 And also, even if you don't want to help, just pray that there 1009 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,920 would be more help. Well, and the biggest thing that 1010 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,600 I maybe just to, to flesh out a little bit for people what, what 1011 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,400 would be required of them, because I think people want to 1012 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,400 know what's entailed, right? So you guys beat it on Friday 1013 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:01,640 nights. But I think the biggest thing 1014 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,640 that we guys are looking for is people who are willing to, to 1015 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,280 come to be there to help lead, but to build relationships, 1016 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,200 right? It's, it's not that they don't 1017 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,240 they, you know, they don't need people to lead devotions. 1018 00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:13,840 You're not going to be asked to lead devotions. 1019 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,520 You're not going to, but basically just that you need 1020 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,400 help there or just keeping all the kids in check, but building 1021 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,080 relationships. And so like if, if, if you enjoy 1022 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:27,040 having conversations with like teenage age kids, high school 1023 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,080 age kids, right? Just getting to know them, 1024 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:30,960 talking to them, building relationships, having 1025 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,440 connections and just. Yeah, or if you wish you had 1026 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,000 someone like that when you were a teenager. 1027 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,640 Right, That's something to think about too. 1028 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,960 Like if, like if you enjoy it, that's one thing. 1029 00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,880 Maybe I didn't. Maybe I don't enjoy it. 1030 00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:43,200 I'm just saying I don't enjoy it. 1031 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,000 If I if I had that desire, like when I was a teenager, some 1032 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,560 older man like would be able to like give me wisdom. 1033 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,920 I could like I needed a mentor. I mean, there's no, I can't 1034 00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,000 count many times in my mind I thought, man, I really need a 1035 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,200 mentor. I really need a mentor. 1036 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,160 And like, if you've ever felt like that, be that mentor for 1037 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:02,240 someone. So anyway. 1038 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,520 And I think it's, I know our evangelism team obviously goes 1039 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,760 out on Thursdays and maybe some people are, are kind of 1040 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,680 terrified of sharing the gospel with, you know, strangers. 1041 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,960 But I think this is a really good opportunity. 1042 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,920 Like these kids are choosing to come to church or maybe their 1043 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,120 parents are making them. But either way, they know what 1044 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,200 they're coming to. They are expecting to hear the 1045 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,600 gospel. So you're not going to have 1046 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,800 like, you can come and learn how to share the gospel with people 1047 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,280 who want it and who are are coming for that. 1048 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,560 Yeah, maybe they don't want it, but they at least they expect 1049 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:40,080 it, right? They're. 1050 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,040 They're not going to like be shocked if you go up to them and 1051 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,000 share the like. They're not going to, you're not 1052 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,680 going to get any crazy embarrassing reactions. 1053 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,440 The worst thing they're going to do is they're going to ignore 1054 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,240 you, whatever. So I think it's a really good 1055 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,880 competition, yeah. Yeah, although I think it 1056 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,640 approximately. So maybe I'll be worth so much. 1057 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:02,960 I just don't speak their language anymore. 1058 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,400 They speak English words and. I what are you? 1059 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,200 I mean, you're only like, you're only like 2323 and you don't 1060 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,600 speak their language. I they say words and I, I don't 1061 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,120 know. What they If he's 23 and he 1062 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,120 doesn't understand, Joe, you and I are. 1063 00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,600 We're done. No, that's good. 1064 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,960 So I have a question for you about youth and maybe you've had 1065 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,680 time to think about this. I did prep you so you'd have 1066 00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:26,240 some kind of idea of what I'm going to ask. 1067 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,640 Prep is a stretch I've prepped. In like 2 minutes before 2 1068 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,080 minutes before we hit record, you've had 50 minutes to think 1069 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:37,800 about this. OK, Like what is like, we can 1070 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,440 talk about all sorts of issues that teenagers face in our, in 1071 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,600 our current culture, But like, sometimes I think like we, we 1072 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,080 may be talking about things that they aren't really concerned 1073 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,960 with. Like maybe like there's a 1074 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,080 different bubble that they're in, you know what I mean? 1075 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,800 Like think about like the identity stuff and transgender 1076 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,280 issues, all those different things. 1077 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,960 And maybe they are important to our kids, but like maybe not. 1078 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,560 And so anything you are with them week in, week out as one of 1079 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,840 our youth leaders, what is like the like what you would say is 1080 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:10,840 like one of the biggest issues that that our youth here at LEMC 1081 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,320 are facing in their current life. 1082 00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,640 Yeah. I would say there's there's 1083 00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:22,480 obviously still those those typical issues that I think you 1084 00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,640 would think of like for guys, you know, struggling with lust 1085 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:30,160 or pornography, like that's still that's still very, very 1086 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,000 prevalent. It's just it's a lot easier to 1087 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:33,800 get to now. So that's kind of a whole 1088 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,640 nother. Another thing to deal with. 1089 00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:41,120 I think there is issues like identity is a big a big one, and 1090 00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,360 I do think some of that is US putting them putting that on 1091 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,880 them. Like, I don't know if they would 1092 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,920 feel like that's their biggest issue. 1093 00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:56,160 But I guess just a big thing that I've noticed is there's 1094 00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,480 just so many distractions in in life these days. 1095 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:06,200 It's really hard to spend your time wisely. 1096 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,840 And especially as as young, young people, like it takes a 1097 00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:17,960 lot of time to to build good habits and with how easy it is 1098 00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,720 to get to your phone. And I think we just naturally, 1099 00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:27,560 we all we need to be entertained these days like never before. 1100 00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:35,000 And so it just seems like they struggle to just slow down and 1101 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:40,600 just be bored and desire, you know, reading their Bible rather 1102 00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,600 than just going out and, you know, spending time with friends 1103 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,640 or whatever, which is like, I'm not going to act like that's not 1104 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,640 what I did when I was like, it's I'm not going to say that 1105 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,720 they're way worse off than we were. 1106 00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:57,640 Like, I think you always look back and think, oh, I was never 1107 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,160 that that bad. But I think if you would really 1108 00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:05,320 think about it like they're no worse off than than we were in a 1109 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,920 lot of ways. But I guess, yeah, the social 1110 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,280 media part and just fitting in with friends and and stuff like 1111 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:16,480 that, I think it's maybe a bigger struggle than than ever. 1112 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,280 What do you think? What do you think the answer is? 1113 00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:25,080 As a parent like I'm you, you're a parent now too. 1114 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:32,160 I think it, it comes down to, I think family worship getting 1115 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:38,040 back to that, because I think if your goal, I'm kind of speaking 1116 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,680 to the parents here, if your goal in sending your kid to 1117 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:45,520 youth is that they'll get, you know, their weekly fill of the 1118 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:51,480 Bible and discipleship. I would urge you to rethink what 1119 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,880 you're doing at home because we have two hours, like there's not 1120 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,400 much we can do. They're going to fill their time 1121 00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,360 with a lot more things throughout the week. 1122 00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:00,640 Then, and that's such a good word. 1123 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:05,960 And yeah, appreciate brother. And so, yeah, like we, we don't 1124 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:10,400 have the power to, you know, lead your, your children to 1125 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,360 Christ. Neither do you. 1126 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,960 But you do play a big role in what they're spending their time 1127 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,240 on. So if I know family worship is 1128 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:24,760 really hard to make consistent, but I, I think if we don't do 1129 00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:29,600 that, we're yeah, we're not setting our, our children up for 1130 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,560 much success, I guess I would say. 1131 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,920 Yeah, I had just recently been on the road. 1132 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:40,000 I just got back last night and one of the most annoying things 1133 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,360 that happened on this trip, there were a lot of annoying 1134 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,040 things. I was in the car with my wife 1135 00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:50,440 and our four kids for like a total of like 32 hours there and 1136 00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,240 back, plus all the different like running around. 1137 00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,040 I think like we lived in our car, but like one of the one of 1138 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,160 the ways. What do you do, Joe? 1139 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,080 If you're in the car for a long time, what do you what do you 1140 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,000 offer your kids as a way to pass the time? 1141 00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:08,280 Looking out. The window Joe, you're being too 1142 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,880 you're trying to be too holy. Watch a movie, watch a movie. 1143 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:21,160 And so like we did that and I regret it because Ezra, our two 1144 00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,680 year old, if I hear, I want to watch Spidey on your phone one 1145 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,320 more time, I want to watch Spidey on your phone. 1146 00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:28,720 I want to watch Spidey on your phone. 1147 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,600 Like like he would wake up from a nap and say, like he would 1148 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,560 wake up the first thing he'd say, I want to watch Spidey on 1149 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,240 your phone. And I'm like, we did that to 1150 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,840 them. Like we did that to him his like 1151 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,720 we're programming him to your point to want like entertainment 1152 00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,400 and to feel like every minute needs to be filled with 1153 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,640 entertainment. Your comment about looking out 1154 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,160 the window is what we did. Like you're thinking about what 1155 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,280 did your dad make you do? Like your dad? 1156 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,800 Like I can remember, like we had a a white Chevrolet station 1157 00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,600 wagon with a red vinyl interior. And I can remember there were 1158 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:02,760 like 32 scenes between me and my sister. 1159 00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,000 Like the only you know, you don't want to know. 1160 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,960 You want to know how I know that is because I counted them 1161 00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,360 thousands of times because I was bored in the car. 1162 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,760 Like we need to learn to be bored, but we need to teach our 1163 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,520 kids that too. I think it's very like you hit 1164 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,280 on really something really good, like all this stuff. 1165 00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,640 The reason our kids want to like dive into this, like what the 1166 00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,600 world is saying to them is because that's who's disciple in 1167 00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,280 there. We're allowing them to be 1168 00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,800 discipled by their devices, by whoever controls the social 1169 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,800 media, which is not, they're not looking for out for their best 1170 00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,040 interests. They're looking out to see if 1171 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,440 they can keep them on the device more and more. 1172 00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,720 So, So like there's a whole bunch of problems like they're 1173 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,160 the kids see that, Oh, this is the way I'm supposed to act. 1174 00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,880 This is this. I should, I should, oh, maybe I, 1175 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,000 I feel like I should be a girl. Whatever, you know, those 1176 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,080 things, they start to have those thoughts to creep in or this is 1177 00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:57,040 what a woman should look like. And so they're, they're like 1178 00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:03,240 their idea of what a wife or a girlfriend should be is twisted 1179 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:07,800 by this worldly view of like whatever the sexual revolution 1180 01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,720 is telling them, right. And so man, I, I just like, we 1181 01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:15,840 got home last night and I'm like, we got to start family 1182 01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,040 worship back out. You know, we got I, I literally 1183 01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,280 said that in that's why when you said that, I was like, I, I it 1184 01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,560 was confirmation for me, like because I have to. 1185 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,040 Take ownership of the discipleship for my kids and my 1186 01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,480 wife. Yeah, and myself in a lot of 1187 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:32,760 ways. But like, I think it's very 1188 01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,320 important. If we don't disciple our kids, 1189 01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,000 the world is going. To yeah, you see. 1190 01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:37,440 What do we want to disciple the man? 1191 01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,600 And somehow we're like you said about, you know, needing to be 1192 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:43,400 entertained. Somehow we're shocked when our 1193 01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,320 kids fall into that. But then you look back and 1194 01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,320 you're like, oh, that's I like, I gave that to them. 1195 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,560 I, why am I shocked that they, they want to watch TV all the 1196 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,880 time or they want to do this like exactly. 1197 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,320 Their thoughts are very malleable and they are like, 1198 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,000 they are going to take on take in a lot. 1199 01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,440 Like they're not stubborn old people that won't change their, 1200 01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,560 their mind like their kids. They, they're going to consume a 1201 01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,440 lot. They're going to learn a lot. 1202 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,320 And it's up to you where they're going to get that from. 1203 01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:22,160 And I think you, you want that to be you discipling them, you 1204 01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,520 teaching them the word. Because if you don't, somebody 1205 01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,200 else will. Their friends will their. 1206 01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:28,320 Yeah, that's good. Yeah. 1207 01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:33,520 That's very convicted folks who are listening, like if you've 1208 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,040 had any reservations about sending your kids to youth, like 1209 01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,600 you should send them because they're going to get good 1210 01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,640 quality teaching like from Anthony Fair and from from the 1211 01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,960 other leaders. So dude, thank you so much. 1212 01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:44,560 It's been a joy to have you with us today. 1213 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,840 Do you have anything you like today to share, Joe or no? 1214 01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:50,920 Did I? Did you fail? 1215 01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:52,320 Did. You fail. 1216 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:53,000 Oh. Man. 1217 01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,040 Oh, you just got that new book. That I just brought you from the 1218 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:00,360 from the bookstore that you haven't. 1219 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,480 I haven't looked at it yet. No, I I don't have anything 1220 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:06,800 right now that I can think of. OK, I do have one thing that you 1221 01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,600 could that that if you're interested in an Advent 1222 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:11,960 devotion, I just received one in the mail. 1223 01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,120 I started it two years ago because today's the third day of 1224 01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,560 Advent. It's called the God who is with 1225 01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,800 us, 25 day devotional for Advent written by Ronnie Martin. 1226 01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,880 It's excellent so far. I commend that to you, to you 1227 01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,240 all. Oh, there's actually one. 1228 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,400 I I crossway just sent one out too for kids. 1229 01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,120 So well, it's like for parents and kids, but it's the God, the 1230 01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:38,160 devotions. 25 days worth and printable ornaments that like 1231 01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:39,840 kids can color and hang on the tree. 1232 01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,320 So you sort of learn the principle and then you color the 1233 01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,480 ornament hanging on the tree. So it sort of gets the kids 1234 01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,280 involved. It talking about family worship. 1235 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:47,960 It's actually be a really great resource. 1236 01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:49,360 Is that available to everybody? Yeah. 1237 01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:50,360 I'm pretty sure it was. Free. 1238 01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,480 Yeah, free. Free is good. 1239 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:54,600 It's always good. If it's free, give me 3. 1240 01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:00,880 You can have three I could like as much as you want. 1241 01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,120 So very good. So we'll put those things in the 1242 01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:05,520 show notes, links to those things. 1243 01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,600 But yeah, so we started last week ending on prayer. 1244 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,560 Do you mind praying for us, Anthony, as we as we close out 1245 01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:15,760 the podcast today? Dear Heavenly Father, I want to 1246 01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:19,240 come before you and I just want to thank you for this day that 1247 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,240 you've blessed us with. I thank you for this podcast and 1248 01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:28,840 for our church leaders that are striving to faithfully lead our 1249 01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,920 church biblically. I thank you for their 1250 01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,400 faithfulness to the Word and their willingness to take extra 1251 01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:39,880 time during the week to give us even more material and help us 1252 01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:45,160 really dig into our Bibles and understanding what what these 1253 01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,360 texts mean. And I just pray that you would 1254 01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,680 give them endurance and strength as they continue to do that and, 1255 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:55,680 and patience as they work through that. 1256 01:03:55,680 --> 01:04:02,600 And I thank you for your son Jesus, who died on the cross for 1257 01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,040 for us, he paid the penalty that we deserved. 1258 01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:09,680 And he also defeated death and he was raised from the dead. 1259 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:15,360 And we are invited now to have relationship with you. 1260 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,280 We also will one day be resurrected. 1261 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:24,240 And even if if we're not, if there's non believers, they will 1262 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,760 be resurrected to but to death and we will be resurrected to 1263 01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:29,240 life. And I just pray that that would 1264 01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:36,520 give us a desire to share your gospel with, with anybody around 1265 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:41,200 us, wherever we might be at work, at school, that you would 1266 01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,800 help us to take those opportunities to share the 1267 01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,120 wonderful hope that we have in Jesus Christ, our our Savior. 1268 01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:54,240 And, and just pray that you would bring up helpers for our 1269 01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,240 senior youth. God, if there's anybody that's 1270 01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,920 listening to this podcast that has been thinking about it, I 1271 01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,400 just pray that you would continue to, to work in their 1272 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,560 hearts to, to answer that call to be obedient. 1273 01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,520 And even if they're not going to help with youth, God that 1274 01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,160 they're serving somewhere, that they're sharing the gospel 1275 01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:17,760 somewhere and discipling people around them like you have called 1276 01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,520 us to. So I just thank you again for 1277 01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:21,920 this day. And I pray that you would go 1278 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,440 with us from here and throughout this week, that you would help 1279 01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:30,800 us to dig into our Bibles and learn more about you and and 1280 01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,880 your, your truth, greatest in your name, Amen. 1281 01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:35,800 Amen. Thanks for joining us. 1282 01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:37,000 We'll see you next week.