Welcome to Beyond Sunday. That's the way Joe introduces
it. When he does it, he goes.
Welcome to Beyond Sunday you. Got to have that cool cadence.
Welcome. Welcome to Be on Sunday podcast
that is based on the preaching ministry of Leamington EMC.
I am Jonah, and I'm joined today as always by it.
Joe's not here. So today, I'm joined by two
guests who have been on the podcast before.
One of them is Ryan Fair. Yep.
I was going to say Kyle Barch first.
And then I was like, that might make your head too big.
Yeah. And so I didn't.
No, you're right. I didn't want to give you too
much pride in your life trying to trying to help you.
Yeah, man, he's working. Yeah, we all need help with
humility. God's been humbling me in ways
that I never could have expected.
Good. Kyle's got a real face for
radio. I do.
Watch it. You're making like now you're
making Yvonne's judgment. No, she.
Knows what she's doing. OK, yeah, so Joe is on vacation
and Pastor Jake is out this week and so I have asked for the B
team to come in. No, they're not.
They're great, Ryan. The reason?
Well, it was great because it worked out really, really good
for that to happen. Because Ryan had family night.
He did the little devotion sermon at sermon, whatever you
want to call it. It was a good sermon, 2 pointer,
2 point sermon in Colossians chapter 4.
And then Pastor Jake preached sermon from Nehemiah, which
we'll talk about first. His sermon was from Nehemiah,
chapter 6, almost at 7:00. Again, we're talking about 7.
I'll be preaching from Chapter 7 next week, so that'll be fun.
But yeah. So Pastor Jake's sermon was
called Don't Give in to Threats and Distractions.
Was that the name of the sermon? I'm so.
Familiar. Yeah, that was it.
He had four points, the attack of deception, the attack of fear
and intimidation, the religious attack and then vindicated by
God. Yeah, So in the in the book, he
said he did give us a quite a bit of context as he opened
discernment, which was helpful giving like the whole overview,
like where we are to this point. And then he this is when we get
that that the wall is finished in 52 days, which is is
incredible to think about, like he it hadn't been finished.
Over a century had passed since they came back it.
Was a month and 1/2 and. He did it in, yeah, 52 days.
That was pretty incredible. But yeah, we get we get a famous
verse. Nehemiah 6 three is like he's
sending messengers back to Sambalot and he says, he says
I'm doing a great work and it cannot come down.
And I think that like, Pastor Jake picked up on that, like
being like, we can't be distracted.
And now I think that was his main point.
Don't be distracted from your main mission.
And so, yeah, I just felt like it was, it's a it's a great
passage. And I think Pastor Drake said
that, too. He's like, this is a great
passage of Scripture. Anyway, what do you guys think?
Yeah, I really liked it. It spoke to me in a way that,
like a lot of, you know, sometimes you kind of just idly
sit through a sermon or whatever because whatever reason in your
life. But I don't know, like I've been
feeling particularly distracted in my own life recently.
And so it kind of felt like it was just really good timing,
like trying to distract. Sorry, could you repeat that
because I was a little distracted?
No, yeah. Absolutely.
I can. No, I don't know.
I think that like he talks a lot about like specific distractions
that take away from ministry or like from the spiritual growth
of your life and that kind of stuff.
And I think that he gave some like tangible examples at the
end, you know, things like worry and like anxiety and fear.
I don't remember him saying it, but specifically I'm thinking
like comfort recently or just like idle kind of like little,
little pleasures here and then you.
Don't mean comfort, like comfort in a hard time.
You mean like I'm just taking the comfort of my life too
seriously? Right.
Yeah. Like surrounding yourself with
comfort kind of primarily, you know, seeking after, you know,
that next Netflix series instead of seeking after that next, you
know, chapter of the reading plan.
You know, I don't know, I feel like it was a good time for me
to hear that sermon because I'm kind of in a weird sort of
groggy season. Yeah, well, maybe some like, I
don't know, it's cold in Ontario right now.
And so and and so you feel like you're stuck indoors.
You just go to work, you come home, you don't really, there's
nothing to do. So it's like, you know, maybe
the Netflix is the next thing, right?
So, yeah, that's good. That's good.
What about you, Ryan? I liked it.
It was, yeah, it was good. He, I I really liked his second
and Third Point, the attack of fear and intimidation and then
the religious attack. I like how on the second point,
it really pointed out, like, we shouldn't always stay silent.
Like Nehemiah, he was constantly sending messengers back and,
like, countering, like they claimed, like, oh, hey, we're
gonna go tell the king. Like, we're gonna tattle on you,
right? He's like, OK, like I didn't do
anything wrong. Right.
So I thought that was kind of cool.
Like, you know, sometimes people always say like, oh, you know,
religion is separate from whatever.
Like, no, this is, this is our whole life, right?
Like we, we should, we should want not stay silent.
We should like stand up for what we believe in, right?
Like first Peter talks. About.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
I think like that. That's good.
Nehemiah had a conviction. Yeah.
Like, and he had, he felt like he had like a job that was given
to him from the Lord. Yeah.
And that's why when he says I'm doing a great work and I cannot
come down, he's like, I'm not going to let anything distract
me from what the Lord has called me to do.
Yeah, especially, especially these guys.
Like these guys have been the troublemaker since the beginning
of the book, right? We've learned it.
We've heard Sambalot's name several times.
Yeah, it's a kind of a weird name, Sambalot.
So. There's no way that's how it's
actually pronounced, but like. Well, for sure, because I'm from
the deep, Deep South. We're from the the cold cold N
so. We we got it all wrong.
Yeah. But but, yeah.
So I mean, he the, the important thing is like he's not
distracted and like the application for us is like,
what? What is the thing we should be
focused on? Yeah.
Something I really liked about the Third Point too was like I
never really thought about the idea that like distractions can
come from a religious sort of point of view, like people, that
people can weaponize what seems pious to cause distractions or
to interview with God's plan, which that blew my mind a little
bit. I don't know why.
It seems kind of like self-explanatory, but like, I
don't know, you just kind of think that like if someone's
saying to you like, hey, we're a part of, you know, the religious
body, you know, we have this idea.
We just want to meet with you about, you know, specifics on
things. It's interesting to see the
perspective of, like, that could be a distraction in of itself,
pulling people away from doing the actual work that's actually
happening. And I think that especially
being in, like, in the church setting, that can tend to happen
with like, you know, meetings where it's like, I'm not in
these meetings, but yeah, you are.
And I just can't imagine, like, I just in my mind, see these
meetings where it's like, all right, we'll pray about it for
another six months, or we'll pray about it for another eight
months, you know what I mean? And prayer is a good pious thing
to do. But I sometimes wonder if like,
it's used as a way to kind of prolong the work that needs to
get done. You know what I mean?
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people, like, I think that goes back to
maybe fear as well. Like people will put things off
out of their own fear, like not, they're not trying to like use
fear to intimidate you like in the past year, but like they use
like this that, you know, fear that like a lot of people just
I'm not one of these people. I'm just being honest, but a lot
of people are really afraid of change.
Like and so and that's, that's completely understandable.
Like because you've seen something the way it's always
been. And then like, there's this guy
that comes and he says we should do it this way and like, without
like taking the time to process it and really figure it out.
And that's a lot of people are just afraid of change.
Oh. Yeah, well, and like, even for
me, like I, I am not very like, quick to change.
Yeah, even in my personal life. But it goes back to what Jake
said too in the sermon, where it's like that fear is that it's
almost like the fear is like the motivating distraction that
leads to like the physical distraction.
It's like the fear and the anxiety that he mentions the end
of his sermon. It's almost like those all three
points ultimately those kind of boil down to like a core reason,
like where it's like the fear a person has or the anxiety that a
person might have on something. Those bring out the physical
aspects of distraction, whether it be through like being devious
or what was the word deceptive? Deceptive.
That's the one. Like the the Decepticons you
know. Like they were like
Transformers. Yeah.
Well, like, yeah, exactly. Like whether that ends up being
coming out as deceptive or whether it comes out through
intimidation or whether it comes out through false piety.
I know that even too. Like the last time Jake
preached, I remember him saying too, that like, how many people
go around and just. We'll tout off, you know, pious
platitudes. Does that actually meaning
anything, right? It's it almost like those three
things can kind of boil down to like those fear and those
anxiety. Responses yeah, I think
honestly, I think that like, I mean this in the in the MI, I
think like the the motives are definitely nefarious, right like
like, but he was they were acting out of fear, right.
Like if Israel did become more powerful and they did
reestablish themselves in the area in the region, then their
economic whatever they've got going on would would decrease.
So I mean these these guys are acting out of fear for their own
like livelihood as well. And so but I think like like my
wife tells me all the time that you know Jonah, I know you get
really excited about new things and you like new, new things and
change what you got to dial it back a little bit because you're
making me a little bit crazy right now.
And so like, you know they're people like me have to recognize
that that people who are slow to adopt or or maybe are afraid of
change. We have to we have to like
slowly think like step back and we do have to allow some time.
But on the other side, people who love like are they like the
things keep the things the same way all the time myself.
Yeah. Don't like change.
They also need to like step like into it and think about it.
Like give give it some like some real thought, not just like put
up this hard wall. Yeah, exactly.
Well, yeah, meet in the middle or just like both of you have to
sort of like understand that there's something on the other
side that has like real reasons for what they're doing.
Yeah, yeah. And not get.
Frustrated with each other from the perspective of someone
that's kind of worried for change.
It's easier said than done though, for sure.
I I don't know, your process is probably the same thing.
It's probably easier said than done to kind of hold.
Off Oh yeah, yeah, you wouldn't you just hate life most of the
time it's like, oh, can't we just do whatever I know will
work and then yeah. So you just get, you get.
It's it's difficult. Well, it's hard to because like
from this, from the other perspective, it's like, why do
we have to do, Why do we have to deviate from the things that we
already know will work? And you have the same place
where it's like, I, I'm pretty sure this will work too.
So I don't know, you're right. It's kind of, it depends on, I
think that there's a, there's a fear on both fronts there that
you have to kind of monitor. But I think it comes back to the
conviction. So like what?
What is the conviction of the work that you're doing?
So like that. That to me is like the the
reason, Like who? Whatever side, like if there is
two sides, whatever side comes out on top, like the conviction
is going to be the strongest. Yeah.
Like that conviction is the strongest.
And so like in Nehemiah here, I'm doing an important work, a
great work, and I cannot come down to bother with you like I'm
doing this. And so like, like we have to be
willing to to be conviction about certain things.
And I think like Pastor Jake was in his sermon, he was talking
specifically our convictions are around the gospel, right?
As a, as a, a Christian Church, as an evangelical church, then
our, our goal and mission is to give the gospel to as many
people as as we can hear it, right.
And so I think that's what we we have to be dead, like dead
focused on that as a church. And, and I, I thought it was a
really good sermon. I honestly, yeah, it was, it's
something that's well needed. Like we don't need to be
distracted. For sure, 100%.
Yeah. And be aware, like, that's the
other things. Be aware the attacks can come
from from all different angles. And then like from inside, from
outside, from like, what you think, like you said, Kyle, like
for what it might be, what you expect to be very, very good.
Yeah. Right, well, and not only that,
like sorry, Ryan, I want you to talk to, but like from the
inside. Like it's interesting he
mentions that too, because like obviously we anticipate attacks
from the outside, right? Because of the world, we to an
extent, we also anticipate attacks from the inside of the
church because churches are messy.
They're run by people. Yeah.
But the reality too is that like attacks from inside our own
hearts, right? Like we are, we are constantly
fighting the flesh. Yeah.
Like we are new creations with a new with a new.
We're new creations and we are fighting the old self
constantly. And so kind of speaking to
myself for someone who isn't like more adverse to change,
I've been really trying to be more open to things and trying
to like change that perspective because I understand that like,
you know, there is a, there is something inside of me that I
have to fight against to actively in scripture or like in
the spiritual sort of sense because I'm a Sinner.
And so sometimes these are, I know you heard it here first,
folks, but like, you know, but you know what I'm getting at,
like sometimes being comfortable and kind of let's goes back to
the season that I'm in right now, kind of huddling in for
comfort. It's it's a desire for me to
stay to like my fleshly side. And so sometimes the adverse to
change that I feel and the fear I have from it, it comes from
that same place where it's like a desire to stay comfortable, a
desire to not have to fight those fleshly desires.
And so I thought that it was a cool distinction to think about
attacks from the outside, outside of the building, inside
of the building. But I think it's important also
for all of us to recognize that there is also attacks from
inside of our own hearts. No, that's good.
And it's biblical. I was.
You made me. You had me thinking about Romans
7. I know I was distracting you
when you were talking as I was turning my Bible here.
So you're good. Sorry about that.
But like Paul says in Romans 7, he's like 7/18.
For I know that nothing good dwells in me that is in my
flesh. For I have the desire to do what
is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is
what I keep on doing. And then he says, now if I do
what I do not want, it's no longer I who do it, but sin that
dwells in me. So yeah, you're a Sinner.
You point. You picked up on that.
It's almost like you've read this before and you thought on
that before. So I find it to be a law that
when I do what it that when I do, excuse me, when I want to do
right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God
in my inner being, but I see my members another law, waging war
against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of
sin that dwells in my members. And it's not to say that like
remaining the same or liking the liking what you got going on or
like maybe being adverse to change is necessarily wrong.
It just goes back to what you said.
Yeah, what it like, what is the motivating?
Factor. We have to have that conviction.
Right. Yeah.
What's the conviction behind it? Well, and at the end of the day,
too, like our conviction as Christians is it's God's word,
right? So like, no matter whether
you're adverse to change or whether like I'm, I'm more with
Jonah, like I'm, I'm willing to change anything in my life, like
good for you. But but at the end of the day,
like, is it scriptural, right? Is it scriptural to sit back?
Is it scriptural to move? Well, we got to do what?
What God's Word. Tells us to do our convictions
need to be based on the word? And that's what we see Nehemiah
doing, right? He's just constantly like, no,
I'm doing what God has instructed me to do, right?
Yeah. That's right.
Yeah. We're going to see in seven that
he sets up, He's setting up, he's setting something up
because in chapter 8, we get one of the like most famous passages
in the Bible where Ezra stands and they all get together and he
reads the law. But he can't do that without
what what Nehemiah does in Chapter 7.
So that's a teaser for next week.
And then yeah. What are your guys final
thoughts on Nehemiah because we got to move to what you did on
family night. I like Nehemiah.
Nehemiah. Yeah, Nehemiah.
Yeah, I thought, yeah, it's great.
Great job, Pastor Jake, on the sermon and it's really helpful
for all of us. So yeah, so we'll move on.
Yeah, is good with you guys. Yeah, we don't edit on this
podcast, so if you're ready to move on, we can move.
On Thumbs up man, I'm happy. OK, thumbs up or not, it's not a
video. It's not a video podcast.
So yeah, so thumbs up. OK, we're moving on.
Pulled up. My notes.
Although if you are interested in video podcasting, I have had
someone ask me, could we put it on YouTube?
And I'm like, I don't know. My, I have a like again, Kyle
has a face for radio and so do I.
We can't all be like Joe Penner and Ryan Fair, you know, the
good looking handsome guy. So some guys get it all exactly.
Ryan, you did preach from Colossians 4.
I'll try to turn there if I can find it.
Colossians chapter 4 verses 2 to 4 verses 2:00 to 4:00.
So why don't you give us like a rundown of what you talked about
last night? Yeah, I mean.
Today's Monday, by the way. This will be dropping on
Wednesday. So last night is, yeah, that
makes sense. Just making sure that everybody
was on the same page. That's good.
So yeah, it's, I mean, 3 verses, but basically, yeah, there was
two points. One was our posture and prayer
and one was like specific prayer for missionaries and church
leaders. And so just kind of flushing
that out on like how we should like, act in our prayers and
then, yeah, who we should pray for.
So who should we pray for? Everybody.
And this.
Passage specifically missionaries and church leaders.
Yeah, which was the reason for our gathering last night, right?
Exactly. And that that's why we chose
this passage. The missions committee mentioned
it to me. And so I thought it was a great
idea. Yeah.
And so yeah, it because, yeah, I was specifically for the
missionaries that we would end up praying for that are.
Conference sports. Yeah, that's good.
I liked how you opened. You gave some good context about
prayer. Like I didn't know these stats,
so I thought were really helpful that 300 plus times prayer,
pray, praying the words, specific words are mentioned in
the Bible and then there's 650 recorded prayers.
It's pretty awesome. And then we have 25 of those
that our Lord Jesus prayed, which is really, really, I
thought that was that's helpful context.
Like believers should be praying people, right?
We should be praying people. We should be talking to the
Lord. So I I thought that was really,
really good context to set up for, for it.
Yeah, Yeah. Go ahead.
I was going to say I read this book not that long ago by JC
Rile called the Do You pray? Great book.
And I just thought of this quote, which was like, you can
be very sure that people fall in private long before they fall in
public. And like, I don't know, I, I
really like the emphasis that we have on family nights that's
like geared towards prayer because it feels like that's
like the one discipline that everyone knows they should do,
but because everyone has easy access to it, nobody does it,
you know what I mean? Yeah, it is.
It is the easiest and the hardest thing to do.
Well, that's what I mean. It's the easiest to do.
It's the hardest to discipline. Yeah, I, I, I find it hard to do
as well, like because of my pride and the, the sin in my
heart, right. Going back to Romans 7, that war
inside me, the flesh and then the and then the spirit that's
in me that that are that are battling it out.
Yeah. So I find it to be it is easy
like I would, I like I it is easy to do, but it's also very
hard for a prideful person like myself to do like to because
what you're doing in that moment is you're you're submitting
yourself to God and you're saying I'm you're God and I'm
not right. So, yeah.
And really, yeah. JC Ryo, RYLE, for those
listening. Exactly.
Look that up. What's the book called?
Do you pray? Do you pray?
Yeah. And like going back to that
quote, it's, I like it because it's true.
It's indicative of like the Christian endeavor, right?
Like when you aren't in your private life in prayer, seeking
the Lord publicly, things are gonna start falling.
Yeah, like it. You fall in private far before
you fall in. I think it's self-explanatory,
but I like it. Yeah, it's good.
Yeah, no, I really like the prayer nights too, like you
said, like, and I know I was thinking about using this quote.
I didn't, but it's a quote from Spurgeon.
Charles, Charlie. Charles Hadden.
He he said I'd rather teach one man to pray than 10 men to
preach like he just like prayer is just so, so important, right?
And like preaching, preaching is super important, and that just
shows how much more important prayer is in our lives.
Yeah, well, it's the like, it's prayer is like the thing that
Christians can do in their private life to connect with
God, you know, in a way, Like you can read his word,
obviously, but prayer is like direct communication with the
Almighty. And so like it, it works.
Like it just, it just works. Like, I don't know why people
like even for myself, I'm talking to myself mostly here
where it's like I can go through a season where I'm praying
vigorously and everything I'm praying for is happening exactly
as it I I want it even. And then all of a sudden, like
the next thing pops up and then it's like, oh, but I don't know
if God's going to hear me on this one, you know, even though
I have this whole backlog of answered prayers.
But yeah, no, but you did a really good job.
Like your sermonette it. Was it was good.
Unfortunately, we didn't record it.
Oh, no, I feel so bad about it. Like I feel bad because we've
started recording and and then it was a busy, it was a busy
Sunday. And then, yeah, I just didn't
didn't think about getting someone back there to record so
well. If I didn't hear it, you missed.
Out you missed out, believers pray.
That was one thing I wrote down. The other thing I wrote down was
like, be awake. Like are we?
And I asked myself the question, am I awake in my prayer?
Like, am I really being watchful?
I thought, I thought you did a good job, like taking that
sentence and two, I think. Yeah.
And breaking verse 2 apart with the three points of like being
steadfast in prayer, being watchful in prayer and and doing
it all with Thanksgiving. So I thought that was a good
exegesis on your part. You broke that down and made it
like you made your point centered on that.
So I thought it was really, really helpful.
Yeah, and on a. Practical level too.
It's like, how many times do you just kind of idly lay in bed
right before you go to sleep and you just kind of rattle off some
list of things you need or want and then you just kind of zonk
out. Yeah.
Yeah, well, in that, like that was kind of the illustration
that I use, right. Like me, yeah, me and my wife
praying before we go to bed and me falling asleep, which
happened so. Yesterday, yesterday I was
convicted twice about not praying, like about my, my, my
habit of not praying before I go to bed with my wife.
OK, so the sermon that you preached and you talked about
like falling asleep in your own prayer, which is fine.
And then you got the elbow to the ribs, right?
Yeah, but that's fine. You were, you were you were
disciplining yourself, you guys in your marriage of discipline
yourself to like this is something where it's important
we're going to pray before we go to bed.
So that was one of them. I was convicted.
But that was the second one. The first one as after church on
like the morning service, I was driving to the superstore to get
some groceries and I was listening.
I've been listening to this. Colin Hansen wrote a book on
like an autobiography, not an auto.
It wouldn't be autobiography be a biography, sort of a biography
on Tim Keller, his spiritual and intellectual formation.
It's a really, really good book. But in it he talks about how Tim
Keller didn't have a habit of praying with his wife either.
And so he tells a story about Tim's wife saying, you know,
hey, just imagine if you were if you were dying and the remedy
for it was to take this pill every single night.
If you miss one night, you're going to die, Would you do it?
And obviously the obvious answer is, of course, I would do it.
And and she was convicting him about it too.
It's like, OK, so that so basically, we're not going to
make it if we don't pray together.
So they made it then then they made a early on in their
marriage. It was early, they made a
commitment to each other that they would they would pray every
night. And so no matter where he was in
the world speaking, no matter what time zone it was in, they
always prayed before they went to bed and and made sure that
they connected and prayed together before they went to
bed. So that was that was the first
time I was convicted yesterday about it.
Second time was your sermon. And then of course, I went to
bed and didn't pray with my wife.
So, but no, it's, it is convicting.
And now that she will listen to this on Wednesday, right when it
comes out. And now we'll have to and it's
good. But no, Kyle, I'm really worried
about you need to stop talking to yourself so much.
We need to get that thing. You know, maybe we should talk
to somebody else about that, but we're talking to yourself all
the time. Yeah, I do talk to myself quite
a bit. No, it's good.
Well, I was going to say too, that like, it's interesting what
you're saying right now between like that and like your
conviction with you and your wife.
It it's interesting that like prayer doesn't just connect us
with the Father, it connects us with other believers.
Yeah. And it's interesting to see the
connected, the connection power that happens, A, between like a
married couple and they're praying or B even in a church
setting with a body of believers, how we can form and
connect with each other relationally through the act of
praying to God. Yeah, it does draw you closer to
each other for sure. Really cool.
Yeah, I'm always moved on the family nights when we when we
spend time, it's just 1/2 hour like because we have like 1/2
hour of like music and a devotion and then we just spend
like it and it's really almost too short.
It feels like I feel bad because I'll eat it most of the time.
You let it last night, which was really good and I appreciate you
doing that. But you feel bad when you step
up there and interrupt people praying.
And I'm like, can't we just keep this going?
But then there's there's all sorts of temperaments in the
room. Like there are people who won't
gather in a group. Have you noticed that?
Like there are some people, because we want to gather in
like groups of three or four pray, but there are a couple who
just won't. And so that's a timber.
They're just praying on their own.
And then there are people who want to pray and they pray a
lot. And then there's people who get
together and then they they pray quickly and then they chat.
And that's it's natural. But like, again, I think if we
could keep it going, like what you're doing is, Kyle, what you
mentioned there is you're connecting and you're bonding
together over prayer, but you're also teaching each other how to
pray. Like you're teaching each other
like the posture of prayer, right?
Like our posture is one that's steadfast, one that's with
Thanksgiving and the one that's being watchful about like what
we're talking about and like and guarding the church.
And so, yeah, I like you're we're teaching each other.
Pray if you just, if you're just also it's just me and Jesus and
I'm good. That's not the Christian life.
No, the Christian life is meant to be done in community.
Yeah, well and to like speaking to the lengths of prayers I it.
Doesn't even. Did you say length or did you
say? Length of prayers for Yeah,
well, I was going to say was that like they don't necessarily
have to be long, they just have to be biblical true, you know
like they. Well, yeah, and Jesus warns us
about long babbling prayers, right?
Exactly. Vain repetitions, right?
And so on. The years are long enough.
Another Spurgeon quote as. Ironically, the example he gives
of how to pray right after he says stay away from vain
repetitions has become a vain repetition, which I think is
kind of hilarious. Yeah.
But. It's funny too that you bring
that up like the disciples didn't ask how to like, preach,
how to do all these things. They asked him how to pray.
Because I think like, like I kind of mentioned that passenger
Mark where he would go, go off and pray in the wilderness even
when there were crowds gathered. And I think like they really saw
him praying all the time. They're like, what do you do?
Like how, how do you pray? Right.
And that's like. Yeah, that's a good point.
Well, in praying alone is of benefit as well, like but in a
church setting though, it is important for us to kind of
cultivate those relationships. For sure, yeah, I wouldn't.
I wouldn't say that you couldn't do any spiritual things alone.
I don't. I don't want to make that.
That's a good distinction. Yeah.
Because that's not the point I was making.
The point I was making is like Christianity is not meant to be
done all by yourself all the time, like it is supposed to be
done in community. But you're right.
I mean, I pray all we all do. We all pray alone all the time.
So. And yeah, in fact, Jesus models
that he went off alone to pray. So yeah, it's good.
But yeah, I thought, I thought your sermon was really helpful.
I liked how you talked about. I just wrote down mysteries of
the mysteries of, of, of Christ. I don't know if you you said
mystery at the end. Yeah.
But it wasn't in my notes, actually.
OK, but it kind of came out because it is in the passage,
right? Yeah.
But it I mean, the mystery of Christ is really like the
gospel. Right, it's it's him revealing
himself to us, right. So anytime you see that Paul
talks about the mysteries of this of the gospel a lot and he
basically just saying this mysterious thing that God would
do this, right? Like that's the that's the
mystery. It's not, it's not a mystery
anymore. It's not, it's not like we can't
figure it out. It's not like unsolved
mysteries. Do you remember that show?
I do. I love way before your times,
but that gave me nightmares. That is a side note.
That music at the beginning of that show gives me side notes.
But that's not the mystery in the like in the in the Gospels,
right? Or in the, in the epistles that
Paul's talking about, he's talking about the Gospel, right?
So. Yeah, and like, that's actually
something I've been talking with my D Group A lot is like the
mystery of Christ in the Old Testament 'cause we're back in
the Old Testament, right? And like that, that was like
everything in the Old Testament points to Christ.
Yeah, right. Like Colossians, actually it's
in chapter 2. It says these are a shadow of
the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Like everything in the Old Testament, like, was like a
shadow of Christ. But now we get to see the true
right thing that is casting the shadow, and that is Christ.
And that's what that mystery is like.
Yeah, exactly. You said yeah.
Yeah, you got me thinking about how am I going to preach Christ
from Nehemiah 7? So I'm just that's where my mind
is right now. So anyway, pray for me.
We'll we'll get there eventually.
But yeah, Kyle, you want to say something?
You look like you were going to say something.
No, we're good. I just I've been reading this
book and with Ryan. Oh wait, what are y'all reading?
Yeah, we read this. Book, hang on, you guys have
been talking about even JC Ryles, a Puritan, Yeah, maybe
Presbyterian, I don't know. Yeah.
Then you got you've been you quoted like Chapter Spurgeon for
like 7 things 17 times in this podcast.
You you're quoting Timothy Keller anecdote.
Presbyterian, Yeah, anyway. And you were going to talk about
another Presbyterian, I think. Spurgeon's a Baptist.
Spurgeon is a Baptist. Yeah, yeah.
It was. I was going to talk about this
book we've been reading called Daily Doctrine, Daily Doctrine
by Kevin Deyoung. And also press, I mean also
press material that's. True.
Wow, fair enough. I'm just being silly.
Yeah, I was going to say, it's not like it matters.
Takes all. Kinds, right?
They're all Christian evangelical Christians.
Heaven, Christ is our center. I think that's all that matters.
Yeah, but like I was, we were reading it together and it's
interesting talking about like the mysteries of Christ.
We just read a whole chapter about like the attributes of
God. Well, tell us what the book is
first. Yeah, that's a good point.
So the the book is a it's like a devotional style book where each
day there's meant to be a reading and instead of it being
a specific Bible verse or a Bible like an excerpt from the
Scripture, it's a theological idea or point.
So it's a systematic theology essentially.
So he's taking systematic theology and breaking it up into
like bite size daily doctrinal. Daily doctrinal points.
So Daily Doctrine really good, yeah.
It's helpful five days a week, like it's.
So it's 260 as well, Yeah. Yeah, so it's good.
I've really enjoyed it. But one of the things he
mentioned this week was talking about the attributes of God.
Attributes of God talking about the incommunicable and the
communicable ones, right Incommunicable being like the
traits that are for God alone that he possesses things like
omnipotence, omniscience, and then the communicable ones.
Well, actually, we can talk about it later and then the
communicable ones, which are like the ones that we can share.
And so like Lovejoy peace, those kinds of things.
And one of the things he mentions about is is attribute
that God has, which is like that he's the invisible God, right?
That he is invisible, not because he's like, you know,
this one transparent ether, but that to define him by the space
in which that he resides. It would just it wouldn't be
comprehensible. Like he transcends space and
time in a way that we cannot fathom.
I don't know why, but you said mysteries of Christ and that
just I thought of that. No, it is.
That is actually like, that's the thing about God.
It's like when you start to think on him, Yeah, you realize
really quickly that you will never exhaust the amount of
thinking that you can do. Yeah, to understand.
And you will not understand at all.
And I think that's that to me is like, it's beautiful.
And I I mean that it's it should do what it should do is it
should cause us to be humble. Yes.
And not proud. Yeah.
And to worship, that's right. And to pray, like to know that
this deity, this invisible otherworldly expanse of God
hears you. Yeah.
And like enjoys hearing from you seemingly, which is and loves
you. I don't know.
It's just like it should make it should make you want to pray all
the more. Like, that's something that I
thought too, even going through your sermonette last night was I
was like, man, I just, I have to say this sermonette, I'm sorry.
Because yours are so long less. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right, yeah. But like going through Ryan?
Follows instructions? Oh, not so much.
Yeah, it's true. But going through that, just
thinking about like how much of A desire I want to pray more
with the context of knowing who God is, the attributes of God
that we read about in this book this week, and then hearing
about his desire for us to pray. It's, it's humbling, but it also
makes me want to draw closer to it, to him in, in, in our, in my
communication. Yeah, for sure.
No, it's good. What have you been thinking
about Daily Doctrine? It's it's really good.
Yeah. It's a great book learning a lot
and a lot of these things are like going over my head a bit.
Like he definitely used some big words like it is systematic
theology, but it's it's not unattainable for for like the
the layperson, I guess, right. And, and really the one thing
that like, you know, you hear people say like, oh, theology
divides and it's not important, whatever we're doctrine divides,
but like learning about God, like that's what theology is.
It's the study of God, right? And it, it really should just
drive us to worship God, right. And I, that's what I've been,
I've been noticing, like reading about the attributes of God or
like learning just about theology, why it's important.
It just like it starts to make you realize like, like you said,
like you are God. I'm not like, thank you, Lord,
for everything. Like, yeah, you start to realize
how small you are in a good way, right?
In a way of like, man, I'm so glad that you're God.
Yeah. Well, and something I really
appreciated about it too, is because is that like you said,
he's the author of this book is Presbyterian.
Jonah, you I'm pointing, sorry, like Jonah mentioned that he is
Presbyterian. So there are things on a
theological level that I disagree with him.
And even in the past, the chapters this week, there are
things he said where I was like, I don't know about that.
But the beautiful thing about it is that theology is meant to be
explored in a way where even if you're not 100% sure or agree
with a person's take on something, learn more, right?
Dive deeper and you know what? And like, maybe you'll come to a
truth or some sort of revelation that maybe this author or
speaker isn't Privy to that changes the perspective on
things. Yeah, the thing about theology
and when you start to study theology is you are studying
God, Yeah, who we cannot fully comprehend.
No. Therefore, you're going to be
challenged. And so you have to be, you have
to be ready for that. And if you're not willing to be
challenged, don't start reading theology books.
Oh, 100%. Because even if you, even if you
think you agree with someone that you're reading, you're
going to find out that that there is something in there that
that challenges you and actually makes you super uncomfortable
and that you just like, you don't want to feel like, you
know what I mean? Like, because honestly, that's
what happens. You're studying the, the, the,
yeah, the topic of study is incomprehensible.
Yeah. On some level, right?
Yeah. And so, like, there are things
that we can understand. I'm not saying that he has
revealed himself to us, which is a very, it's beautiful.
Like God, the creator of the universe.
I, I have a hard time saying the deity or the, this God or like,
I don't know. I've, I've said it before too,
like, but we are studying the one, the only right, the the
everlasting, the God. And he has made the way, not a
way for us to, to know him. He's made the way for us to know
him. And that is, that is the word
that we have. So, but you're studying so you
can comprehend some things, but the things that are made clear,
we need to understand it very clearly.
And the things that are not made so clear, we can hold with sort
of like loose, like grip and like say, yeah, there's tension
there. Like like free will and the
doctrine of predestination. There's tension there.
They're both in the scriptures and we have to hold them loosely
and say, OK, somehow little word makes it work together.
And that is a mystery. Well, that's a.
That's a Spurgeon quote. Why rectify 2 friends?
Or why reconcile 2 friends? That's right.
Yeah, they're already, they're already friends.
And so, oh, there we go again, Spurgeon, one more time.
Sorry, I was gonna say too like. Spurgeon's my favorite Baptist.
It's fine other than other than yourself.
Everybody loves themselves, right?
So if you don't. I was gonna say like another
quote, it goes perfectly. It's from Daily Doctrine.
I don't remember what chapter this was in, but it's also it's
Kevin Deyoung. He says that like in essentials
unity, Yeah, in non essentials liberty, but in all things
charity. Yeah.
So we hold to the we hold to the essential of the gospel, of the
person, of Jesus, of the triune God, in a way that we are
unified behind those. Things, yeah.
And that's one actually, we make that point in our first steps
class. So if you're listening and you
haven't taken first steps, that is the first thing we talk about
is, is like holding things that are very important.
Like there are some things we have to agree on in order to
like have fellowship together. Yeah.
Everything else we can sort of like just be charitable with
each other. Well, and same thing with and
then it goes like into the non essentials liberty, right.
But like, you know, we talked with the tension with the free
will and the the model of predestination that people hold
to no one is really certain on how they work, how they work
together, how they're reconciled.
And so we can have liberty with that.
We can we can be kind to one another.
Exactly. We have our understandings
because none of us have the full answer or no.
And then lastly, in all things charity, be charitable on it.
All right, Like in all the disagreement and all of like the
seeming ways that we can find disunity, be charitable to one
another, give each other the benefit of the doubt, I think
that that's probably the best way to operate, right?
Yeah, it should be. Well, and like we do all things
in love, right? Like, yeah, there's so many
passages in Scripture, like First Corinthians 13 is the
famous love chapter. And there's so many other
passages that just like talk about loving your brother.
Like even Paul talks about loving his loving the weaker
brother. Like if it means that I won't
even meet again, I'll I'll do it.
It's like he does anything to make sure that people love God.
Yeah, right. And like, I'm like, even between
us three, I'm sure there's something that we could disagree
on. Oh yeah, and if there's not I'll
I will encourage anyone to ride in the car with Kyle for six.
Days. To I.
Was gonna say shortly after this is like done recording.
We're gonna, we're just gonna start fighting.
That's. Oh no, we're not.
I'm just. Joking.
I'm joking. I'm joking.
But yeah, like there's, there's always something.
But like we always are rooted in the gospel.
Right where the. Roots are and everything that
comes out of that is just good conversation.
Yeah, for sure. That's good.
I like the book too. I've been reading it.
I'm behind you guys. You have.
Yeah, I'm behind you guys. But yeah, it's really good.
Joe and I, we, we have always, we always have big plans and
we're going to do this together. We're going to read this book
together and like then we have a million other things that pop up
and we put that on the back. Burner such as the life of a
pastor, though, right? Happens.
Yeah, things happen. So on that note, we're at like
40 minutes in our podcast now, so that's good.
But on that note, we talked about things happening.
We had Pastor Jake is away this week, Joe is away this week.
Joe had a planned vacation and then Pastor Jake had an
unexpected emergency of the death in the in Anna's family.
And so yeah, I'll, I'll just take a minute or two and we'll
pray and we'll conclude the episode.
Is that OK with you guys? Yeah.
Any other comments before we conclude?
Well, any anything on your sermon?
No, not yet. Teaser.
No, it's Monday. I just found out I was preaching
yesterday. So he.
Just finished writing it. No, yeah, it's it is a hard
chapter there. The 1st 4 verses are the only
narrative and then it just runs right into a list of names and
numbers. And so it will be interesting.
I will try my best to to to pull something out of it.
I don't have to work really hard there.
There is stuff there. All scripture is and that that's
where I'm going to start is that Paul's instruction of Timothy
that all Scott, all Scripture is profitable for for teaching.
So we're going to learn that right now.
Let me pray for just for our church and for Pastor Jake.
Father, we are grateful. I'm grateful for Kyle and for
Ryan for their willingness to come on and to fill in and just
to have a conversation with them.
It's always fun, but it's even more fun when when we can do it
in a way that may build others up.
And so where I pray that that would that that's what we've
done today that we've we've been some sort of encouragement to
someone who's listening the father right now.
I just like, like we just mentioned that things come up in
the life of any, anyone, but specifically in pastors lives.
And, and I pray for, for Pastor Jake and for Anna, specifically
for Anna now that that you would give their, her family comfort,
that you would give them the ability to minister to others in
the midst of their grief. But I pray for, for their
travels and I pray for, for all the conversations that we had
that they would be focused on, on giving the gospel each and
every conversation that they have the ability to.
And just like helping those in the family that they're, that
they're seeing down in Texas, that they're just able to give
comfort through the gospel, through what you've done through
your son. And so Lord, we just, we, we
grieve with them, but we also, we thank you for the opportunity
that they have to, to go into, to be with their family and to,
and to do that. And so I also pray for Pastor
Joe as he's out on vacation. I pray that it's a restful time
and that they, they all return safely.
We just pray that you would be with our church, LAMC.
Help us to love each other. Help us to to to be unified in
the vision and to not be distracted so we could take
Pastor Jake's message from Sunday to heart and then we
won't let anything distract us from getting the gospel out into
our community and beyond. I pray these things in Jesus
name, Amen. Thanks for joining us.
We will see you next week. Thanks.