Welcome to Be on Sunday, a podcast that is an extension of
the preaching ministry here at Leamington EMC.
I am Pastor Jonah Chitty and I am joined as always by Joe Joe,
Pastor Joe Penner. On Sunday, Pastor Joe preached
from Nehemiah 5 right. Yeah, I did.
I just something just came to my mind as you said that.
So like we have to be, we have to be careful, I guess as
pastors. I know like, I don't know, you
probably wrestle with this sometimes too.
Like some people, people will text me and they'll be like,
hey, Pastor Joe and I'm just like, Joe is great.
Just just Joe is just fine. It reminds me of something that
John MacArthur said years ago. He's very well renowned pastor.
You know that many, many people know him and he had just.
He's he's sort of well known. Sort of well known, like some
people may know, may have heard of him, but he had just said he
had just said, you know, talking about this in a passage that
specifically says like he was condemning the Pharisees for
going around like wanting to be called rabbi and teacher.
And he says you shouldn't desire that.
And and John MacArthur talking about that just said, you know,
Jesus was good for Jesus. And so John is good for me, you
know. So I'm Jonah.
I'm not saying that, you know what?
And I, and I, I say that to also say I know that some parents
like are wanting to teach their children to like learn to be
respectful and people are trying to be respectful.
And so I'm not saying that to be like, you shouldn't do it.
I'm just saying I always try to come back with that and be like,
you know what, Joe is just fine. You know, we're just.
Joey. Joe.
Anyway, we all have J names.
Yeah, we do. Joe, Jake, Jonah.
Yeah. So anyway, that was good.
That's a good segue. In the NEMI 5, you think he was
like wanted to be called like like Governor Nehemiah.
Governor Nehemiah, I don't, I don't think so.
Yeah, I mean, really. Like, that's a good point.
Like nobody goes around saying hey, bricklayer, Bricklayer
Pete. Yeah.
Oh, whatever. It's like or.
Even if if you're like ACEO or a supervisor or a manager, like
nobody, yeah, nobody says that. Like, hey, Manager Bill, you
know, nobody does that. That's a good point.
So I'm sorry, Joe. I'll never call you Pastor Joe
again. Never, ever again.
No, you're never. You'll forever now be known as
Joe being silly. All right?
You did preach a you did preach a sermon.
Yes, Sir. On Nehemiah 5, and you named it.
Hang on, not remember the Titans?
That was your opening illustration.
We are one body. Let's live like it.
Would you put an exclamation point at the end?
Maybe I should have? OK, but he didn't.
I didn't. Yeah.
So we are one body. Let's live like it.
Give us a rundown of what you had for your outline.
Yeah. So essentially in this chapter
we have infighting, we have division from the inside, right,
which is very different from fighting from the outside.
We've had what we've had the sorry to interrupt you there,
but to get us in the context of Nehemiah, we have experienced
lots gone on and they started construction on the wall.
They have experienced some outside opposition.
Now we face Yeah. Internal opposition and and
they're beginning to to fight against one another, right?
Maybe they don't see it that way, but but we see this sin
sort of going through the the body where people that are poor
people that are not very well off and are struggling, are
being oppressed by those who are wealthier and have the
opportunity to take advantage of them, which goes against God's
word. And so they're not acting like
one body. They're not living like like one
people and they're taking advantage of each other.
And so that's where I tied in. And I use the opening
illustration you alluded to the remember the Titans, you know,
these high schools that were brought together, there was
segregation, blacks and whites at different schools.
But now they were forced to integrate and they combined the
school and the football team was made-up of white and black
players. And the biggest opposition they
faced was internal struggle, the fighting with each other.
And you know, the scene where they meet at the Gettysburg
Cemetery and and the coach delivers this legendary speak
out of speech. I don't know if it was if it was
a real thing or not. I don't know the movies based on
a true story. I don't know if that scene is
like accurate or not, but at least in the movie.
Played well. Yeah, and they played really
well in the movie. They come to the, the cemetery
in Gettysburg and, and it's a reminder of, you know, the, the,
the American Civil War where America was fighting against
itself because they believe different things and, and, you
know, 51,000 people died. And so this, the coach sort of
delivers the speech. It's like if we don't come
together, you know we're going to destroy ourselves just like
they did. Let me ask you a question.
Did you, when you were watching the clip, you've watched the
movie a long time ago. When you were watching the clip,
did you cry a little bit? Not that, no, not this week.
If, if I'd watched a whole movie, if I get into like the
context of a movie, I probably would have teared up a bit.
We were talking yesterday a little bit about this and I, I
just mentioned to you that I don't really like movies that
like play on my emotions and really like try to, to like get
me in the fields. And you said something like that
you just don't like to cry movies.
And I was like, you're right, I don't.
So yeah, that's a really, it is a really moving scene.
And it, and it really helps like figure out, hey, if we don't
work together, if we don't like in, in this context, if Israel,
if they don't work together, then they're they're they're
going to destroy themselves from within essentially.
So yeah, it's good. Exactly.
And that's exactly what was going to happen here, right?
It's like they literally were going to risk like because,
because some, because some commentaries that I read, I
didn't, I didn't mention this in my sermon, but some commentaries
sort of alluded to like it may have been the wealthy people
that refused to join in rebuilding of the wall who were
taking advantage of these people.
And so I know Jake mentioned in one of his sermons that I think
it was the dacoits, the the leaders, the nobles of the
dacoits refused to join in. And then but the people from
Dacoa came. Right.
But it may have been those leaders and we have no way of
knowing, right? But it may have been, you know,
wealthy people like that, including them, who are sort of
oppressing these people. It's like, and so if these
people are oppressed beyond a breaking point, right?
Like we can't eat anymore. It's like, well, guess what, now
you can't. You die or you know you.
Can't work. You for sure can't work if you
can't eat. Right.
So at a minimum, you know, the work of the wall is going to
stop because they're going to have to go back to their fields,
they're going to have to go back to their farms, they're going to
have to go back to these things. But the the the longer picture,
the bigger picture is like as a nation, they could have just
been destroyed and disbanded. But, and so it's that fighting
from within that they needed to, to confront.
And so my points in, in the sermon were the first thing is
that we need to expose sin in the body.
And so the, as the chapter progresses, it begins with the
people who are oppressed, They bring this sin forward, they
expose it, they sort of shed light to what's going on.
They bring this to Nehemiah and expose what's going on.
And so, and then Nehemiah confronts the sin, right.
So that's my second point, that therefore we need to confront
sin in the body. And so Nehemiah then goes on
from there to go and confront those leaders and confront the
sin that that is exposed to him by these people and he goes and
confronts it. And then the Third Point was
that we need to be killing sin in the body.
And so there at the end of the chapter, we see Nehemiah's
example that, you know, he avoided the sin, this specific
sin of oppressing people by himself, being willing to be a
servant. And so by doing that, it's like
I, I was just mentioning to you that I think this is probably
the point that I maybe took a little bit of the most creative
license. But I think it is, I think it is
true that he is killing sin by, by being a servant.
And, and he, he doesn't, you know, sin against the people and
harm the people because he's, he's choosing to be a servant.
And so I think, yeah, I think in all these ways, it, it helps us
sort of the point like to be 1 body, right?
If we're a body, we're one. And so when sin happens, we have
to expose it and then we have to confront it so that we can seek
reconciliation. And then as we move forward,
it's like as much as we can, we have to be killing sin in our
lives personally and as a whole so that we can be pure and that
we can truly be the body of Christ and and live like it so
that the world will know that we're Christ's followers.
Yeah, I don't think you, I don't think you'd stretched it.
I I didn't even like when you mentioned that earlier.
I I I never even considered that you took license right to go
further than you should have because I mean, you didn't you
you didn't like say thus says the word of Joe.
You're like you pointed us to other parts and and scripture
that that told us gave us like examples from the New Testament,
like you, you in that point. You went to James one or excuse
me, James 41 to three and talking about what what causes
quarrels and fights among you, right.
It is not it is it not this that your passions are at war within
you. And so like, yeah, I mean,
Nehemiah, dude had a good life before he came back, right?
So I mean, he could have, he could have still had that life
if he wanted to. And so like, you know, he he had
to like, say, hey, we've got to give up these passions and, and
like focus on this one thing. Yeah, so.
Well, it I had wanted, I thought of using this, this illustration
sort of throat throughout the sermon.
I mean, you know this, you know that I had a toothache a couple
weeks back. And as I was thinking about the
body, like the fact that we're one body, I sort of alluded to
this in, in the first point that, you know, we we don't
usually do things intentionally to harm ourselves, right?
We don't purposely hurt our own bodies.
And as I was thinking about this, you know, I, I had a tooth
that was causing me just an incredible amount of pain for
about a week, maybe not quite a week.
Joe had a rogue tooth. It was and I went in, I went
into the, I mean, I, I couldn't sleep.
It woke me up at night like no pain medication was helping at
all. So I went to the dentist and he
said I had an abscessed tooth. And so there's an infection in
the bottom of one of my teeth. And you know, but as I was
thinking about that as an illustration, I'm like a tooth
is a very small part of my body. And yet when it, when it hurt,
my entire body was affected, right?
Like, like it was hard for me to work.
I would sometimes just lay down and like just, you know, if your
hand comes up and like holds the side of your face, 'cause you're
just in pain. And it just made me think like
you expose K you, you've exposed the problem.
A problem has been exposed. But now for me just to pretend
like, well, whatever, I'm just going to deal with it, that that
goes terribly wrong because now I'm in pain for like, I'd be in
pain for weeks, right? In unbearable pain.
And so at some point, it's like you have to confront the issue.
And that's like going to the dentist and coming up with a
plan of like how we're gonna fix this thing.
And, you know, it's like, I just felt like that was such a, like,
such a good illustration. And hopefully that's helpful for
people to see here because it's like, we're one body.
And so, you know, like, like, like Paul writes to the
Corinthians, when one part suffers, they all suffer.
And so like, we can't, we can't watch one part suffering and be
like, oh, OK, fine, whatever. You just go suffer over there in
the corner while I continue doing what I'm doing.
No, we have to deal with the issue and we have to confront
it. And you know, whether it's like
weeping with someone who weeps or, or, you know, confronting
sin and dealing with the issues so that reconciliation can
happen. But that's what it means to be 1
body. But we often do do the opposite.
Why do you think that is? I, I, I mean, we're, our Western
society probably plays a big role in that.
The fact that we really have been conditioned to think
individualistically, like, like everything is, is a, it's mine,
it's my life, it's my money, it's my car, it's my house, all
of these things. Is we've, we've thought so
individualistically that it's like it's just when we're
together on a Sunday morning that that we see ourselves as a
body. And, you know, maybe part of
that is like, throughout the week, it's like we don't really
spend a whole lot of time together.
And that's true. I think that honestly, I think
that's really the autonomy thing.
Like we feel like we have personal autonomy, man.
That that's, I think that's all I think you're hitting on it.
We don't, we don't see ourselves as a body.
We we almost see ourselves as I don't want to say it out loud as
a social club, like we just meet on Sundays or Wednesdays or
whatever it is. We and it's not like I really
have this relationship with these people that's like deeper
than just like a cordial. Hey, how you doing?
Well, how was your week? Did you eat any good food?
Whatever? What are the other questions you
have? Like, you know, even if it's
painful things you're going through.
Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. If you need anything, let me
know. Those are, those are like, I
don't know, they're like the same thing you would get at
work, right? Or maybe less actually.
Yeah, how that's, And that's a really good question to ask,
right? How are your relationships with
your brothers and sisters in Christ different than your
relationships with just acquaintances, right?
People that you work with or people that you know.
Yeah, Yeah, that's true. There should be a difference.
Yeah, there should be. When we look at the book of
acts, like what happens, right? Like they've shared what they
had, right? They ate together.
They met and ate together in one another's homes.
They they were selling stuff to share it with those who had a
need. You know, they were, they were,
they were acting like the church.
They were acting like one body. Right.
Yeah, that was yeah, exactly. And Acts, they're they're,
they're there Pentecost, right? They're there at the time.
And then they don't want to leave because they love what
they're what's happening right then.
But yeah, that's, that's, that is it.
I, I think you hit it, man. You, you're like, you're like
picking at this festering scar on my body somewhere.
I don't know. It's weird.
I'm just saying it's like you're, you're scratching an
itch. You know what I mean?
Like that's that is what it feels like.
Well, maybe we should take a moment to like talk practically
about that because I, I think the solution to the problem is
not that like, because we realized that like, you know, as
a church, you know, we have, you know, somewhere around 600
people that are coming on a regular basis, including kids,
adults, teens, kids, young adults, all like all the range,
whatever. And so you can't, it's, it's not
possible to have an intimate relationship with all of those
people. Like that is, that is physically
impossible. And So what are practical ways
that people can be the body of Christ to one another?
I mean, I feel like we're beating like the same drum over
and over again. One way would be, like, find a
way to, like, be intentional about discipleship in like a
group. Yeah, where you can, you can,
you can have, like, deeper conversations.
I don't know, man. Like that.
I think that's probably the answer.
I don't. I don't know what are other
ways. Well, I think, and I think
that's faithful because we think about the church in Acts, right?
Yeah, you know, Acts 2, Acts 2 tells us that 3000 people were
added to their number that day. You know when, when?
It says, oh, well, then they met.
They met in homes, eating and, you know, sharing food.
It's like, well, did all 3000 people.
No, no they didn't. I think, I think it could be
broader than just discipleship groups, though.
Yeah, I think like, like last night we had, we we watched the
Super Bowl together. We invited some other couples
and their families to come as well.
And our kids invited some friends over as well.
Right. We had it, we had, it was a fun
time. We had lots of food, lots of
fellowship. We watched, we watched a stupid
ball game that the only person in the room that liked it was me
and maybe, maybe some one of the other guys.
But like, like the conversation. We, we skipped the, the men and
anyway skipped the halftime show and we made coffee in the
kitchen. And so we just chatted.
But I felt like, I felt like the conversation in the room and and
granted, we, we like our work, like our work mine and your work
is, is Christian, right? So like we, we're pastors or
we're actually, we're Joe and Jonah.
But, but so our conversation sort of naturally comes down to
like what we, what we think about all the time.
But fortunately, the other people that were there, they
also enjoyed talking about that stuff.
And I think like I was thinking about like the idea of communal
living is not the right word, but like friendship and like
expanding friendship out to include families.
And like then you then you get together frequently and you like
you have meals together and around the converse and around
the dinner table and around like the sitting on the sofas
together. The conversations are always
about life and always about and they do include work.
But like a conscious Christian will bring up how does the
gospel affect this right? And what is what is it about
like Christ and how he's working in my life?
How does that affect what's going on in our lives right now?
And I think that that came up, you know, those things came up
with us. We were talking about, we're
talking about sermons and all these other things.
But like, I just think that that's part of it too.
Like it has to be like the discipleship group can almost
always can almost come into this thing like the church does too
and, and feel OK that I'm the body when I'm with my
discipleship group, when I'm not with them.
So that's like, how do we flesh this out and like forming
another program, forming another like small groups where you meet
with different families in your house.
That might be something that's helpful, but I don't think it's
the true answer. I think like the true answer is
like, I'm going to be Jonah and I'm going to bring my family to
Joe's house. And we're going to have live
conversations about what what like, what interests us.
But also like being very intentional about like
sharpening each other with the word, talking about what God is
teaching us in the Bible, you know, as we read it and then our
kids hear that and then that's the norm, right?
That's like the normal thing dad dads talk about.
They could talk about cars and and beers and cigars and
whatever else that dads are known for talking about.
Or they could talk about what is Christ doing in your life in
your heart? How is like, you know, that's a
hard thing you had to go through, but you had, how did
you get through it? Well, I had hope because of, you
know, the Lord's work in my life.
I don't know, maybe I'm just rambling now, but.
No, that's really helpful though.
Like like it's, it's doing life together.
I mean, that's. That's a It's cliche.
I'm trying to avoid saying that. It is a really cliche thing to
say because it gets said so much, but it's it, it is.
I mean, that's what a body does, right?
Like my entire body follows me everywhere I go.
That's right. And experiences everything that
I experience and goes through whatever I go through and.
Feels pain whenever. Yeah, like a part of it feels
pain. And so like instead of, you
know, that that pithy comment in the in the foyer where you say,
oh, I'm so sorry to hear that happened to you.
It's like going to their house and just sitting with them, not
saying anything, just being there or answering a text.
You know, I was talking to a friend the other day on like on
a phone call and he said the like, if you, if there's
somebody in need that the difference in like somebody like
going down like the path of like suicide.
Like for some people, like is like a 6 minute conversation
with a friend. And it's not even like, it
doesn't necessarily even have to be about anything like, hey, you
know, you got a second and then like the person doesn't respond
or they respond two hours later or whatever.
And sure, whatever. And then like that could be like
the moment like this, it's you don't have, it's not, doesn't
take a lot of time. Like, you just have to be
willing to be there for somebody, you know, like to be,
to be willing to spend. I think Simon Sinek is the
person he got this, this idea from talking about the six
minute thing. But anyway, I, I just think like
we're, we're overthinking it. Yeah.
Like a lot of times. Like what does the body mean?
It just means being like a human, decent human that cares
about other people. Yeah, like genuinely cares about
other people. And I think that goes back to
your autonomy comment. Like if I'm autonomous and
that's the only thing I care about, that I'm a super selfish
person because I'm only always thinking about myself, right.
And so I think that that would be, I think that's the that's
the shift in pattern. We have to think about is how
are we others focused? And I don't know if I know I'm
not. And it's hard.
And it, and that's why the sermon really, it was a good
sermon, but the good kind that like, you know, punches you in
the gut or, you know, kicks you in the pants, whatever.
Right. And it did for me too, right?
Like I was telling people, you know, as people came up and
asked questions or talked about it, it's like, man, you're,
you're, you're preaching to yourself all the time, right?
I feel like that's the hardest part about preaching is
realizing that like you have so much room to grow.
And so I hope never, nobody ever sees me as, as preaching.
And you know, I'm, I'm, you know, pointing the finger.
It's like I'm quite often and I most times pointing it more at
myself than anybody, right? You, you as the guy who's
saturating your mind in the text all week.
It's like, man, I feel guilty all week long.
I know, isn't that the way it works too?
It's like like we don't, we don't, I mean, there is a
rotation of pastors preaching in the church, right?
We have. But like, it just seems like,
and no one's like saying, all right, this text right here is
assigned to, to Jonah because he deals with this garbage in his
life the most. But like, that's almost what it
seems like. You're right.
It's like, oh, you're going to, you're going to have to look
through this text for like 2 weeks because you know what, you
need it. And it's the pastor, Jake and
oh, sorry, Jake and Joe aren't, aren't, aren't saying that
they're the Lord is saying that he's the one who, you know,
organizes it all anyway. But yeah, and I think like to
your point about, you know, like take people taking advantage of
another because we're autonomous, we're thinking too
much too selfishly. You know, I did have someone
mention, you know, like the way the government, you know, takes
advantage of people. And we look at like, we look at
businesses today and it's easy to point towards them, right?
But they do see people as as in a means to an end, right?
Like, I, I see these millions of people who are going to buy a
cell phone as a way for me to make a product that they will
buy so that I can become wealthy, right?
Yeah. I mean, I want to give them
something that's going to communicate, keep them in touch.
But it's like, at the end of the day, it's like they're concerned
about making money. And and but we can trickle that
all the way down into our own hearts, right?
Because it's like, you know, at my job, you know, it.
Am I texting this person? Am, am I reaching out to this
person, you know, starting a conversation?
I'm, I'm doing air quotes, starting a conversation because
I'm really their friend or because I need to borrow that
thing from him and I'm just starting a conversation.
You know what I mean? It's like it's very subtle in
that way. And I, I have to check my heart
sometimes too, where it's like, am I friend with this person
because I want to love them and I want to care for them and I
want to minister to them, or because of what I might be able
to get? Well, that's, that's
interesting. I've that, I've, I've seen that
play out like a friend. I was talking to a friend once
and he was saying, yeah, I, I went home like he, he lived far
away and he went home and he was visiting family for the holidays
or something like that. And he said, one of my friends
from like high school reached out to me.
They saw I was there, came by, we had this good conversation.
And I mean, I was just so pumped.
I was just so pumped and it, you know, but after, after a while,
he started talking to me about my insurance needs and started
to try to sell me insurance. And it's like, dude, I just
wanted to like I wanted, I wanted so badly to believe that
this was real, like that you really wanted to have a
conversation and find out about me.
But instead you were fact finding about my life so that
you could sell me life insurance for the four kids I have.
Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, come on.
And but yeah, that's right. Like, that's that's the
mentality. Like, are you using people right
for your own benefit? Are you?
Do you genuinely care about other people?
Yeah, and I think, I think we've all probably felt that on
different levels, right? Like you, you, you think
someone's genuine and, and we've been that person too, right.
So we can't, we can't be too judgmental about it.
But it's like we've all felt that right, that someone wants
to be a genuine friend with us all to, to find out that it's
like, oh, they were some ulterior motive.
And I think that's where it's important for us to, to truly be
genuinely concerned about each other and, and not to see people
as well. They're, they're just there to
get me what I want. It's like, no, these are people
that got us placed in my life, people that it's my
responsibility to help them grow, to shape and mold them to
I'm, I'm placed here to be the sandpaper that helps them become
more like Christ. And equally, they are to be the
sandpaper in my life that makes me more like Christ.
And, and it's when we're committed to doing that for each
other that we truly are the body and we work together to grow.
Right, So I think that like, I think that sometimes like to
your first point, first point, excuse me, like exposing our
first one and two, actually exposing the sand and then
confronting it. Like sometimes that's all you
need. Like if someone is genuinely
like they don't, maybe they don't see what they're doing
right and they recognize it like they did here.
I was just looking here in chapter 5 and and 12 it says
then they said we will restore these and require nothing from
them. We will do as you say, right.
It's like they immediately responded to what was happening.
Yeah. Like Nehemiah basically just
pointed out, hey, you guys, these complaints have come up.
We don't need to be doing that. And like I think they saw
quickly saw the wisdom in like, why are we fighting with each
other, our real enemies outside? And that's the same for us.
Like, why do I need to fight with you, Joe?
My enemy is the world, the flesh and the devil.
I need to be fighting that, right.
So yeah. But we, I think honestly,
though, but like, and you may point, you pointed this out,
like more often than not, when you expose it, genuine people
respond in a positive way. Yeah.
Yeah, but this, this actually reminds me of a conversation I
had with someone this Sunday morning.
And we were just talking about differences in in in beliefs
and, and what this guy was trying to say was that he just
didn't understand how how people made some issues such a big
issue. And he's like, we, we agree on
the fundamentals. We agree, but like we're just
disagreeing on peripheral issues.
And it's like, why are we fighting and arguing about that?
Can't we just agree that, you know, we're at least following
the same savior and just we have these external issues.
And I think that's, that's a really good example of, you
know, certain theological viewpoints within the church.
It's like we, excuse me, you know, we're open to as a church
having allowing different viewpoints that we're, we don't
force people into our belief system or like, obviously
there's certain things that we're going to say.
It's like, well, if you don't believe that Jesus was the son
of God, what then? We're not in fellowship
together. If you don't believe in the
Trinity, if you don't believe in, you know, salvation through
by grace alone, through faith alone, those sorts of things.
It's like those are like those are non negotiables, but there
are other things that that we're not gonna stand on those things
and force people. And so we can have some, some
abilities like let's not fight each other.
Like you said, there's an enemy on the outside.
And it's like if we're so busy fighting each other on these
things that like at the end of the day, are, are not salvation
issues and are are just distracting us from the work of
building God's Kingdom, then we're we're failing to see the
real enemy. And Satan likes nothing more
than to cause us to turn on one another.
He's so happy. He doesn't have to do anything.
Yeah, he just, he just can sit back and watch it and laugh
because if I'm fighting with you, I'm definitely not sharing
the gospel with that guy down the road.
Absolutely. Or with my neighbor or even with
my kid. Because all I think about is
this argument that I have going on with you.
Exactly. All week long at work, assumed
by it, all week long at work, you know, we're throwing in our
earbuds, listening to sermons, listening to things, not so that
we can learn and grow and share, like you said, share the gospel
or help the church grow, but so that the next time me and that
guy have that argument, we can. We can.
Yeah. And that's not healthy.
It's not we're. Going to destroy ourselves from
the inside. No, we need to be 1 body, right?
Like you look at one body and it's use any example, the
working out one always comes to my mind, right?
It's like if I'm going to if I'm going to try to get fit and
healthy, it's like my whole body's going to have to work
together. My hands are going to have to
stop shoving unhealthy garbage down my face.
Sour Patch Kids Mini Kit Kats. And and then my whole body's
going to have to work together to like lift weights, run on the
treadmill, go for a walk, be healthy.
Like our whole body. It takes the whole body working
together to not sabotage itself, but to work together to grow.
And it's the same thing in the church.
It's like we all have to be focused, using our gift, using
our skills, using our ability to help the church grow so that we
can become healthy and mature in Christ.
Yeah, I want to get back to, I want to get back to your sermon.
Specifically in .2 you had 4-4 sub points and basically
confront sin or confrontation, should seek self-control, should
seek the truth, should seek God's glory, and then should
seek reconciliation. And then you used another New
Testament passage to talk about that.
Do you remember which one it was?
Yeah, Corinthians. Yeah.
And then you pointed back to. So I was just like, it was just
really cool to watch. I really liked how you connected
the New Testament passage that you were using to kind of prove
something out. Because often, I mean, I'm
guilty of this is like, oh, I think there's a perfect verse in
that Paul's Paul wrote that applies here, right.
And then I just go read the verse and I don't.
And then I don't really like tell anyone how it really
connects. And so like, I just appreciated
what you did. So what?
What was it in Corinthians that you were talking about?
Yeah. And so and so, yeah.
I mean, my, my, my sermon preparation.
It's, it's not like a, it's not rocket science.
I I can explain it to people. It's very, very simple.
What basically what I do when I read a text is I read it over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over. Pacing around the gym.
Pacing around the gym, walking around parking lot, I saturate
my mind with the text basically so that by the end of the week,
it's like it's, it's locked in my mind, essentially not quite
memorized, but but pretty close. And then I'm looking for the
divisions in the text. What what are points?
And so in this, so in this chapter, it's very clearly
broken up, right? You have, you have the people
come to Nehemiah, then you have Nehemiah confronting the
leaders, and then you have Nehemiah sharing his practice,
right? So there's three parts it's
broken up. And then what I do is I explain
what's there, then I try to use an illustration just to help us
grasp the idea. There's usually an idea
somewhere in there that I'm really wanting us to understand
that I feel like the Holy Spirit is leading me to like emphasize.
And so I try to come up with an illustration and then I apply it
to us as a church more directly and more specifically.
And so just, I mean, you're now that I say it, maybe people will
be more keen to like see it in the sermon, right?
Which I don't, it doesn't bother me at all.
It's very simple. I'd love to, if anybody wants to
learn how to study Scripture like that, I'd be more than
happy to sit down with you. But that's basically it.
I explain it, I illustrate it, and then I apply it.
And so in this one, I felt like it was a good illustration for
talking about like confrontation, right?
So here you had Paul here he, he went to Corinth.
He, you know, was with these people for a year and a half,
you know, spending his life there.
And after he leaves, people begin to turn on him, right?
Fueled by, you know, some guy who came in and began to teach
them things that were different and opposite of what Paul was
teaching. And so Paul, actually, the part
that I left out of my sermon is he actually went back to Corinth
and tried to confront them and he got insulted like, and
rebuked openly. And so he just left before
things got real bad. And then he writes them this
severe rebuke, this really, really hard letter that we don't
have. He refers to it in Second
Corinthians saying, I, I wrote to you and I, I rebuked you.
And basically he calls them out and they, they repent of their
sin, right? They confess that they were
wrong and they begin to discipline this guy who came in
and he repents too. And but then so the point was
that I was trying to bring up, it's like this whole idea of
confrontation. It's that it's to lead to
reconciliation. It's to lead to, like, not just
venting, not just getting something off my chest, not just
me letting you have it 'cause you sinned against me.
It's like I should be aimed at reconciling the situation.
Let's restore what was broken, restore what was lost.
And that's exactly what Paul encourages him to do.
You now you need to forgive him. Now you need to welcome him
back. Now you need to reaffirm your
love for him so that you know, 'cause we know.
And he sort of says he may be overwhelmed by excess of sorrow,
but he says sort of later on in the passage is like we're not
unaware of Satan's schemes. Like this is exactly what Satan
wants, right? He wants to like he wants to to
separate us, right, to divide us.
But the fact that he's repentant, that should welcome
him back, right? That's the goal.
If he repents, don't just like keep making him feel bad.
He's repented. Now welcome him back and affirm
your love for him. And that's exactly what we need
to do as believers, that, you know, when there's sin and and
we confront it then and there's repentance that happens.
It's like, let's reconcile and then let's restore that unity,
that joy in worship. Man, that's, that's good.
The reconciliation should be the goal.
I don't. I think that's probably I'm just
thinking about what the world says.
The world says exactly what you said.
You said get it off your chest, let them have it because they
sinned against you, and then move on because then because why
they'll be they'll be 6 more friends or six more people that
you can hang out with. You can just forget them.
Yep, the world says forget you. Yeah, I'm done with you.
Write you off forever. But in the church, we don't.
We can't do that. Yeah, that's not what?
Because that's not what Christ did for us, right?
Yeah, we deserve to be said to be told forget you, but that's
not what Jesus did. And so like we can't, we can't
be that We can't do the same thing to other people.
Exactly. Yeah.
And I referenced this, this quote from John MacArthur where
he he basically says like Paul knew that like there's no room
for like man made limits, right on grace and forgiveness.
There there is no limit. Peter comes to he comes to Jesus
and he says how many times do I got to forgive my brother?
And he's like, there's no end. It's, you know, 7 * 70.
Which wasn't the number like he was just saying.
Right. It's like it's infinite, right?
Look at God's, like exactly what you said, right?
God's grace towards us is the example.
It's like there's no limit. If they come and they're
repentant, it's like you forgive and you and you reconcile the
relationship and you keep going. Yeah, that's such a good word
for for all of us to think and like and to remember like, like
you could you could say, OK, well, I'm not going to forgive
that person. And then they, what happens to
them? They they end up being so
uncomfortable in the situation. They leave the church and then
you're like counting on the next couple, family or whatever
friend to come in. And then, but eventually you're
going to realize that you're the problem, right.
And it wasn't that person all along, because I'm having the
same issue I had with Frank that now I'm having with Pete.
And it's all these things like, guys, you got it.
You got to reconcile. The goal is reconciliation.
And that's the same thing for someone like the Matthew 18,
right? The the goal is reconciliation.
The goal is to bring a person back into the family, not kick
them out. Right.
And there's and it brings about this idea that like and and even
if you so if you're not going to reconcile and you're not and
you're just going to you just want to be bitter and you're
just going to keep that. OK, great.
I mean, I guess that's your choice.
But last week in our Bible reading plan, it's like you have
the story of Joseph. Yeah.
And his brothers, you know, one day come to Egypt and they don't
know they're before Joseph. And Joseph begins to test them a
little bit. And what do we see immediately,
Right. Their immediate response is, Oh
man, God is brushing us. They felt they felt guilty for
what they did to him. Yeah.
And they didn't know it was him. Yeah, And it was like 20 years
later, they were still carrying that burden of guilt.
And so it's like, do you really want that?
Like if you're going to be unforgiving towards a brother or
sister or you really just want to carry that baggage for the
rest of your life? I shared a story with my D group
as we were talking about this passage and, you know, harboring
bitterness and, and just carrying this burden.
I shared a story that a friend had shared with me years ago.
The context of the story is kind of weird.
I don't really understand it, but anyway, it'll make sense
when I say it. So like, there's this, back in
the day, you got a horse and buggy and this guy has his wagon
and these boys come up and they fill his wagon with stones.
And it's like, now he's got to take all these stones off,
right? He's like, I can't carry these
stones around, It's too heavy. So he empties the stones off the
wagon and then he leaves. Well, 20 years later, these got
these, these boys felt so guilty that they had done this thing.
They they come to the guy and they confess it was it was us
who did it. We're really sorry.
And he just said, well, he says, I loaded the stones off my wagon
and I forgot about it. You guys have been carrying
those stones for 20 years. And it's like just a really
interesting word picture that it's like, that's what happens
with unresolved sin. It's like you think you dealt
with it even for you to go like, well, it doesn't bother me.
Yeah, it does. You're, you're carrying the
burden and the weight of that because it's in your mind,
right? How many times?
I mean, you just, you just carry things.
We have things in our life that it's like you, it's unresolved.
And every time you see that person, every time you hear
something about them, it's like it pops up in your mind and you
carry it. So are you willing that that's
the question you have to ask yourself.
Like, am I willing to carry this for the rest of my life or
should I just deal with it now and be done with it?
Right, Right. Should I just kill it now?
Yeah. And then and be done with it?
Or do I want to, do I really want to carry this pain and this
like anger, Cause anger is pain at some, on some level, like I'm
angry with you. It's like I'm carrying something
forward. Just get rid of it, right?
Like seek the truth, right? Yeah.
Confess it. Reconcile.
And, and at the end of the day, it's like there's not one that's
easy and one that's hard. Like they're both hard.
You just have to pick your heart.
Do do I want to do the hard thing of having a really
difficult conversation? But again, if it's aimed at
reconciliation, I feel like that helps a lot, right?
If you're starting the conversation with like, hey, I
just want to make things right, but it's still hard.
I get it. It's very hard.
Or you're doing the hard thing of like carrying that baggage
for the rest of your life or however long you choose.
Both of them are hard. Yeah.
And the other thing too can't neglect is like if you have to
be willing to like to be OK with the other person not seeing it
and not and not reconciling with you.
Like at some point you can only do, you can only do so much.
You have to, you have to depend on the Lord to do the rest.
I think that's, that's hard because sometimes my excuse
would be, I don't want to do it because they're not going to
listen. They're not, they're not willing
to do whatever. And, and I think that for me,
that would be, that would be the hardest thing to overcome in my
mind, right. And so we have to like, do I
want to carry this forever? Well, like, no, but my excuse
would be like, well, they're going to carry it forever.
It's like, So what? Like I can only do my part,
right? And then I have to pray for them
and trust the Lord will allow them to to see that too, and,
and to move on eventually. Yeah, it's really hard.
It is dealing with, dealing with, I mean, dealing sinners.
Dealing with sinners is hard because you're one too, right?
We're all sinners trying to figure this thing out.
Yeah, absolutely. The good thing is we don't.
We don't have to do it alone two ways.
We don't have to do it alone because we're a body.
Act like it. Yeah.
And then we have the Lord's help, right?
We, we, we do have the Lord. We're if you're a Christian,
you're indwelt by the Lord and the Spirit and the Spirit's in
you. And we often just like, think we
can do it on our own, which is so crazy.
It is crazy anyway, but it is it is so helpful to be thinking
about the fact that you know, like you said, that that we are
one body. Like Jesus wanted unity so much
that we have an entire chapter dedicated to his High priestly
prayer. You know in John chapter 17 of
of him wanting his disciples and his people to have unity, so
much so that he didn't even just pray for unity just among the
disciples, but for all who would.
Everybody that comes later. Everybody's going to come after.
That's the unity that he prayed for.
That's the unity that he wants. He wants through his Spirit for
there to be unity. And that if it's important to
Christ, then it should be important to us as well.
We should strive for that unity. Yeah, there's no Alice.
There's not. Should we have to?
Yeah, like that's that, that's our, that's pretty much.
I don't know if it's a command, but we need to make sure that
that's what we're doing. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Oh, killing sin in the body?
Killing sin or what? Who said that?
John Owen said what? I didn't.
I didn't quote John Owen, but
he, he, he. Just came up today when we were
talking. Yeah, he said.
You must be killing sin or sin will be killing you.
And that that's the truth. I think so many times I, I
shared, I shared an article with my D group this morning and in
the beginning of that article, I'm just going to quickly pull
it up here. He shares this really, really
interesting anecdote. He says the deadliest snake in
the world. This is this is on the Gospel
Coalition website by Grant Gaines.
The the title of the article is John Owens 9 instructions for
killing sin. He says the deadliest snake in
the world is Australia's inland Taipan.
The venom from one bite can kill 100 full grown humans.
Imagine you come home to find this venomous killer coiled up
in your living room. What would you do?
You wouldn't encourage your kids to play with it.
Wait, I would burn the house down.
Me too. I hate snakes.
You wouldn't keep it around as a pet.
No, you'd grab a shovel and you would aim for its head.
We have something far more dangerous in our homes and our
hearts sin. Sadly, too many people play with
sin instead of putting it to death.
And then he goes on to court. John Owen, he famously warns
Christians be killing sin or it will be killing you, which is a
book that he wrote from is from a book that he wrote the
mortification of sin on Romans 8, verse 13.
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die.
But if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you
will live. And so, so many, so many times
it's like we, we play around with sin, we minimize its
effects. We minimize, it's not really
that bad. We just sort of like keep it in
the corner. We don't really do all that much
to kill it. It's like we sort of become OK.
You shared the sermon illustration, you know, months
ago about, you know, this, this guy and, and you know, this Holy
Spirit that wants to kill this sin and this guy and he's like,
he's just trying to justify why it's OK.
It's like he's just become used to it being here.
And, and we need to have a hatred for sin, that God, God
hates sin. It, it destroys our relationship
with him. It kicked Adam and Eve out of
the garden. Like one sin was enough to
remove them from the presence of God.
And it's like we just have to learn to hate sin and to be
killing it and, and to be very diligent.
And so maybe we can share this article.
Yeah, for sure in the in the podcast notes that might be
helpful to some people. Yeah, and infighting amongst
yourselves is sin, yeah. Yeah.
So that was yeah, yeah, absolutely it.
Is like infighting. Infighting is sin in itself, but
but so is like it's not just what happened before the fight.
Like the one sin calls more sin, which in turn causes even more
sin, which in turn causes people to to harbor bitterness and
hate, which is more sin like. That's how that's how come it
kills you so fast. Yeah, yeah.
And so the so the point that I drew out here is that that way
that we kill sin in the body is by being servants, right?
We serve not to get but to give. And this is how Nehemiah lived.
He like what we learned in this story is that, you know, rather
than, you know, using his position to take take advantage
of people, he used his position to serve.
And he provided for himself. He provided for his own people.
He he did that on his own. And he even helped with the work
on the wall, right? Like he wasn't, he wasn't there,
just standing around. Like passive, like an overseer,
like no, you do this. Yeah, I, I worked on the wall.
I've also persevered in the work on the wall, he says in verse
16. And so so he was looking for how
to give, you know, not to get. He wasn't, you know, OK, I'm now
in this position. Now I'm the governor.
Now I get this is what I get because of the position I'm in.
That's not what his mentality was.
He wanted to give and he also wanted to please God.
And so that was the second part that we serve not to please man,
but God. You know, his prayer at the end
of the chapter that you know, remember for my good, Oh my God,
all that I have done for this people.
He wants to be pleasing to God and I.
And when we do that, we kill sin in our life, right?
When we serve out of desire to bless others, to help them grow,
to help them and, and spiritually nourish and
strengthen them. And our desire is to please God.
You're going to kill sin in your life because you're seeking to
do what's what's glorifying to God and most beneficial to other
people. And it's like sin doesn't have
room there, right? That's so good.
It's, it was a really helpful chapter.
I don't, I don't know. I don't know that I would have
come to the conclusions that you did.
I just appreciated your work on this on this.
You'd had a different flavor and you'd have done it.
It would have been slightly. It would have been good.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. We do.
We do come at things from different perspectives.
Well, and I think that's, I think that's good and healthy,
right? Like all all three of us pastors
preach differently and you draw different things out of the text
And, and, and because the truth of the truth of the matter is
it's like, I could preach the same chapter in a month or two
months in a year and I and I'd probably draw different things
out then. You know, I think a really
beautiful, and this is, this is a really helpful thing to think
about because some people, some you, you might have a favorite
pastor that you listen to and, and you know, you could ask the
question. I ask this question all the
time. It's like, you know, if you can
listen to, you know, the best preachers in the world, why
would you listen to me? I don't really answer that
question. Maybe you shouldn't listen to
me. But I think I think the reason
why God puts pastors in different areas is because we
live in a world where it's like, you can listen to the best
preachers all the time, But our job as pastors is, is to take
this word. And what does it mean to this
specific body of believers and what they're specifically going
through in this season of life in this context in Leamington ON
right in 2025 in February. What are we going through that
this word has to and you know, you can't get that from a pastor
who's who's preached this text 20 years ago.
It's God's word is still obviously going to connect and
they're still going to be connecting points.
But that's where it's like a pastor knows what's uniquely
going on in that body in that season of time.
And God works through that to to give them the word that they
need. Right.
And if he doesn't know he should, he shouldn't be their
pastor, right? So that's that's the other thing
too. So.
Yeah, you got to know the flock. Yeah, very good.
All right, Joe Almost said. P Joe, any final thoughts on on
the sermon from Sunday? I think just a further
application of find ways, find ways to be the body, you know,
I, I don't know, I don't, I don't always know what that
means for. You, man, I really think it's.
Dude, eat more food together. Like get together.
Yeah, take time. Like make like we have time.
You're not too busy to have a meal with your friends.
And I'll be the first to confess, you know, we visited,
we visited a a family this week, too.
And I just said to Jessica on the way home, I was like, you
know what, we need to sit in more people's living rooms, you
know, and, and get to know them and hear their stories.
And there's just, there's something that different, Like
we can talk on a Sunday after church and have a conversation
in the foyer or in the sanctuary or whatever.
And that's can be great. And it can be a great time of
blessing. There's just something the
different that happens, a different connection that
happens when you're sitting on someone's couch exactly and
listening to them and you use your sharing in life more
personally. And so that might be a really
good encouragement. See, I do, man, I think.
More people's living rooms. Sit down, have real
conversations, leave your phone in the car, right?
Look people in the eye, have a conversation with them and I'm
like staring at you in the eye. Now it's like, I can't say that
and not do it, but that's that to me, that's it.
It's like, dude, just just disconnect from whatever it is
you're trying to like fill in this void.
You're trying when you use your phone or your devices and you
whatever, you're trying to fill a void that you can get by
sitting on the sofa with somebody and having a
conversation about their life. It's just that's what that to
me, that's it man Form relationships, be willing and
open and as hard as it is, be vulnerable at times to an
extent, you don't need to be open, like open the book right
away, but like just be willing to be a friend.
Yeah. Friendship matters, and
specifically Christian friendship is the most important
kind because it's centered on Christ.
Yeah, and the closer we are, the less we're going to want to sin
against each other, right. It's like I and we see this like
when, when you, you know, with your kids or your wife or, you
know, some people that are really close to you, it's like,
man, you're you're willing to do almost anything to protect them,
to save them, to defend them. And that's exactly what we're
talking about. The closer we are together as
the body of Christ, as brothers and sisters in Christ, and the
less sin there's going to be. Yeah, it's really good, Really,
really good. Next week we'll be talking about
EMI 6. Professor Jake will be preaching
that, I think. Yep.
And then yeah. So we're grateful for you guys
who are listening. If you have questions, send them
in. We haven't received a question
in a while from you guys, so I don't know if that means that we
were just doing such a great job or that you're not listening or
whatever. If you have a question, send it
to beyondsunday@lemchurch.ca and we'll be glad to answer your
questions. Why don't I pray and we'll close
it out. Father, thank you so much for an
edifying conversation about reconciliation and dealing with
sin inside our inside our church and inside different
relationships we have with maybe it's a family.
You have hard, hard conversations that need to be
had. So Lord, I pray that you would
give us the courage to trust you.
I know that's that seems silly, but I sometimes I need courage
to trust you. So Lord, I pray that that you
would give us and our church courage to to do the hard thing
because it's all hard. Ignoring it is hard and in doing
something about like the pain in the the conflict is hard.
But Lord, I pray that you would give us the the courage to do
it, to step out in faith and to trust you to deal with sin, to
be killing it before it kills us.
So when I pray these things in Jesus name, Amen.
Amen. Thanks, LEMC, we're praying for
you. Have a great week.