1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,640 Welcome to Be on Sunday, a podcast as that is an extension 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:11,040 of the preaching ministry at L AM CI am Pastor Jonah Chitty, 3 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:13,840 joined as usual by Pastor Joe Pinner. 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,600 Pastor Joe, how are you doing? I am doing well, thank you. 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,240 How are you doing down there in sunny Florida? 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,360 I'm down here in sunny Florida. It is hot. 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,000 I don't know where the temp is where you are, but it's about 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,800 75°F here and not so sunny. It's about to rain. 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,240 They're complaining about cold weather coming in and it dipping 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,920 into the, I don't know, 40s. So they're going to be freezing 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,800 cold. The scarves will come out in 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,200 Florida. Everybody will be bundled up for 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,600 40° weather. But yeah, overall, just it's a 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,120 really good time of visiting with family for Thanksgiving. 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,120 And yeah, kids are not here now. They went somewhere else to hang 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,040 out with other grandparents. So I'm here home alone, and 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,280 that's good because I get to talk to you so. 18 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,480 I don't know about that. So go on vacation. 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,720 Go on vacation and still talk to Joe. 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,040 That's really good. Tell us how much we like each 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,080 other. Yeah, Well, I, I was looking at 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,360 your weather because I was curious the other day and I saw 23 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,560 what you're saying. It's like there's like a 20°F 24 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,040 dip that you guys are expecting like next week. 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,160 It's crazy, Yeah. Yeah, that's just a, it's just a 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,000 cold front. They say it's a cold front and 27 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,760 air quotes because it's not really cold, it's just 28 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,040 different. And so yeah, they'll be, it'll 29 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,440 be it's a wet cold though. It is. 30 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,560 It is chilly. But yeah, it's good to see my 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,200 family and good to hang out with the extended family, not just my 32 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,120 parents. Get to see my brother and my 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,240 sisters and all their youngins and all that stuff. 34 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,400 So. So yeah. 35 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,000 So we'll, we'll jump right in. You preached a sermon on Sunday, 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,960 didn't you? I did. 37 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,640 Yeah, I think it was called the importance of the Resurrection. 38 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,600 That seems like seems like a on the nose title like it. 39 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,560 It is pretty important. And you preach that from First 40 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:14,040 Corinthians 15 versus 12 to 19. So why don't you give us a 41 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,960 little recap and then and then we'll go from there. 42 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,480 Yeah, well, people who've been tuning in are probably going to 43 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,200 really start to see us like, I guess we talked about our titles 44 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,960 a lot and how they're changing and adapting and modifying. 45 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,880 And I guess I'm starting to feel like maybe maybe my title should 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,240 be more that way. So that I guess my biggest 47 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,000 conviction of titles is that if anybody's ever running through 48 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,640 our sermons on our website as like, let's say, a catalogue of 49 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:46,000 sermons, that the title just basically gives you a really 50 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,520 good idea what the sermons about rather than like we've said 51 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,360 before about captivating or. Right. 52 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,840 I don't know, man. We do talk about titles a lot. 53 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,520 I think I'm, I go back and forth. 54 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,840 I think what what I dislike most about them is that I'm not good 55 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,200 at riding them. And so it's like, it's like, 56 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,880 wait, it feels like I'm burning extra calories on something that 57 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,680 no one is going to pay attention to. 58 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,440 Or in the very least, like somebody might chuckle if I make 59 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,280 it provocative or they might say, and then that had nothing 60 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,160 to do with the title. So I don't know. 61 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:19,880 I go back and forth though. I think I think clearer is 62 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,000 better. But yeah, I like provocative 63 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,680 too. Yeah. 64 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,600 So the importance of the resurrection and just based on 65 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,480 that text, as you already mentioned in First Corinthians 66 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,880 chapter 15, verses 12 through 19, where where Paul is really 67 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,600 speaking from a negative vantage point. 68 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,920 And he's talking about like, you know, if if we're proclaiming 69 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,920 that Christ has risen from the dead, then how can you, some of 70 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,520 you say there's no resurrection? And because if there's no 71 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,160 resurrection, that means Christ hasn't, Christ hasn't risen from 72 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:51,880 the dead. And then he goes through a whole 73 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,200 bunch of implications of what that would then mean. 74 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,520 But they're all from a negative vantage point. 75 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,000 And so I even sort of wrestled with, well, even in my sermon 76 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,560 outline, should I, should I state all my sermon points in 77 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,400 the negative or should I already already work ahead to make them 78 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,080 positive? And I kind of wanted to stay. 79 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,360 I know you had sort of encouraged me. 80 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,600 It's like I always want, I always want my sermon to sort of 81 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,200 match the tone of the text. And so that's what I ended up 82 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,680 doing. And so all of my points were 83 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,959 were going on to that negative aspect. 84 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,680 The first point being that without the resurrection, our 85 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,560 message is meaningless. And Paul goes on to say that, 86 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,560 you know, we preach in vain and we believe in vain. 87 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,200 If if the resurrection isn't true and Christ didn't rise from 88 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,760 the dead, then we then our message is just completely 89 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,600 meaningless. Then he goes on to say, without 90 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,480 the resurrection, our witness is worthless because he's talking 91 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,200 about, you know, his witness for God, the fact that he's speaking 92 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,080 things that are from God and he's testifying about God. 93 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,880 And if we're saying that he rose Christ from the dead and he 94 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,440 didn't raise Christ from the dead, then our witness is 95 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,360 worthless. And that witness that he's 96 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,720 giving is completely meaningless, completely 97 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,320 worthless. And then the Third Point is that 98 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,760 without the resurrection, our faith is fruitless. 99 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,600 And so again, if Christ really didn't rise from the dead, then 100 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,760 that means that what we're putting our faith in 101 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,240 accomplishes nothing. Our sin remains unforgiven, the 102 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,080 grave remains unopened, and life remains unfulfilled. 103 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,880 And so there's really no point in US doing anything that we're 104 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,880 doing essentially. I feel like that's essentially 105 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,600 what he's saying. He's like everything that we're 106 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,840 doing, everything that you're believing, and this is all just 107 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,040 a waste of time. Which is interesting because 108 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,560 what I sort of mentioned in the sermon too, that a lot of times 109 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,920 people will sort of praise Christianity for its good 110 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,800 morals. But Paul doesn't see 111 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,600 Christianity as something that's like just good for society or 112 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,680 like, well, it's really good morally speaking, which a lot of 113 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,120 people say that about religion and not just Christianity, but 114 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,840 like other religions too, right? Like, oh, they, they just have 115 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,800 good morals or, you know, they all sort of have the same idea 116 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,680 of morality. It's like, no, it's much more 117 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,680 than morals. Paul actually says, I, I feel 118 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,920 like what he's saying is like, if, if Christianity is based on 119 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,160 morals alone, it's still worthless. 120 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,400 It's still meaningless. The only reason our religion has 121 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:22,440 any value or any meaning is because Christ really did come 122 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,800 to the world. God in the flesh really did come 123 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,800 to the world, die, was buried and then rose from the dead. 124 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,040 Like that's why, like that's the issue and that's why it's so 125 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,800 important. And so because of all that, we 126 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,120 can't have faith, we can't have confidence, and we can give all 127 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,520 of our lives to God and living for his glory in with the hope 128 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,080 of the future resurrection because Christ did rise from the 129 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,400 dead as a first fruits, which is Jake's text this coming week. 130 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,880 Yeah, and like, not like, not just like we should or we can, 131 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:56,960 we can like live in hope. We should live in hope, right? 132 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,840 That that's like the ground of it all is like, Yeah, It it 133 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:03,720 proves that Jesus is who he says he was. 134 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,720 So that's really good. Yeah. 135 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,440 I thought that. I thought your, I thought your 136 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,160 points were really, really meaningful. 137 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:11,560 They're, they're memorable for sure. 138 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,880 They, they weren't meaningless. They were meaningful. 139 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,480 They weren't worthless. They were, they were worthwhile. 140 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:19,960 They weren't fruitless. They did bear fruit. 141 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,800 So this is really good. I was struck by, I think you 142 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,000 said something like, well, you, you sort of used Paul's words, 143 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,080 but like I just one of my notes was like, we commit our lives or 144 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,920 we who commit our lives, like people who commit their lives as 145 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:39,280 far as pastors and people who are in the ministry, as we, as 146 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,520 people who commit our lives to the message of the gospel. 147 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,400 We would be most pitied if Christ has not been raised from 148 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,960 the dead because we've just, we've not only like, and not to 149 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,240 toot your horn or anything like that, but we've not only like 150 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,360 said, yeah, we believe this is true. 151 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,480 And we're going to like raise our family up in this. 152 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,000 We believe this is true. And we're going to like stake 153 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:02,000 our entire like livelihood, reputation, all of these things 154 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,640 on this one event. And a lot of times I don't, I 155 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:05,840 don't know why. I don't know if you get this 156 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,200 feeling or not, but like seems like a lot of times, like it, 157 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,280 the resurrection is like almost an afterthought. 158 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,960 It's like not something that even in during Easter, it's 159 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,800 like, yeah, we get it, we talk about it. 160 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,080 But like, I don't know if that's the way you, that's the way you 161 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,240 felt about it in the past, but seems like it's just kind of 162 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:22,880 like an add on. Yeah. 163 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,320 He was raised and he was raised from the dead. 164 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,640 And I don't think Paul's saying that. 165 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,080 I think Paul's making it more than that. 166 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,520 I dude, I absolutely agree. I, I, I was sort of thinking 167 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:33,679 about that. I was wrestling through that 168 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,840 this last week. I mean, we've in your sermon, 169 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,600 you sort of touched on through theological triage and you know, 170 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,480 there are issues of first importance and then there are 171 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,440 issues that are maybe not as important that like we, we can't 172 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,240 disagree on it. So I was like, OK, like this is 173 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,360 going to sound dumb, but I like, I asked myself the question. 174 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,920 It's like, OK, well, is the resurrection, like is it a, is 175 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,920 that a first tier issue? Is that an issue of like first 176 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,360 importance? And then like as I started 177 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,760 thinking about it, I'm like, duh, I'm like, of course it is. 178 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,200 I mean, that's Paul's whole point. 179 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,320 Like that kind of felt like an idiot that I even thought about 180 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:06,240 it, but. You're absolutely right. 181 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:07,640 That's good though, but that's good. 182 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:08,800 That's what you're supposed to do. 183 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,360 And I think that's like like it's good. 184 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,840 Like we're supposed to ask questions every single time we 185 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,680 read something we say, OK, what is this? 186 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,680 Is this something that I have that I have to believe in order 187 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:20,600 to be a Christian? Or is this something that has 188 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:24,600 like room for me to and I think it's, it's fine to ask, but you 189 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,200 may, you may think, Oh, I'm dumb for like thinking this. 190 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,720 But no, I think, I think it's important for us to like to 191 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,720 always ask every doctrine we need to run through that, 192 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,160 through that filter, even if like, I mean, let's just be 193 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,640 honest, you didn't think about it long, right? 194 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,480 Right. You thought you thought about it 195 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,080 for like 02 seconds. You're like, oh, of course it 196 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,240 is. But like, like if you thought 197 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,480 about it for like 2 weeks, who might have had us more issues, 198 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,320 but like, it was like a, a fleeting thought like they say. 199 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,720 I mean, I think, yeah, it just seems like like we will talk so 200 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:02,320 much about like Jesus living and a perfect life and then and then 201 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,320 how he taught, like we'll talk more about the Sermon on the 202 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,880 Mount, which is good, good teaching. 203 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,240 We should we should talk about that stuff. 204 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,400 But we, we focus on his life rather than focusing on like the 205 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,440 power of the resurrection, because like through his defeat 206 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,200 over death, then we're given what after that, we're given the 207 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,800 gift of the Spirit. Like this is how we can like do 208 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,400 the whole Christian wall. Like the cause of Jesus raised. 209 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,040 And like, I think you started to talk about it some like, and 210 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,320 we're going to talk more about it over the like the next few 211 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,480 verses in this chapter. Is, is like, not only is was 212 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:39,920 Christ raised, we will be raised. 213 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,920 And in order to, in order to, to be a Christian, you have to 214 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,680 believe in the resurrection. That's just, that's just it. 215 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,600 I think it's like it is one of the most important tenets of the 216 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,280 of Christianity. Yeah, absolutely. 217 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:51,800 Yeah. And. 218 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,040 If not the most so. Well, and you're absolutely 219 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,680 right. And I would say like, I guess 220 00:10:57,680 --> 00:10:59,760 I'm guilty of this too, right? Like exactly what you're saying 221 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,240 that that there is a resurrection sort of becomes an 222 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,280 afterthought. And I think of even for myself, 223 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,680 it's like, you know, how many times do we say Christ died for 224 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:11,120 your sin, right? And so the emphasis is on like 225 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,840 the cross and the emphasis is on his death and his payment for 226 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,200 sin. But it's like, it's a, it's a 227 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,240 full package deal, you know, like, right, like the 228 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,960 resurrection is a part of him accomplishing our salvation. 229 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,000 Like, like you said, it's not just an add on or an 230 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,160 afterthought. Like it is central to the 231 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,840 gospel. Like it has to be, it has to be 232 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,880 there because it it, it accomplishes what he set out to 233 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,640 do. I think too, like maybe it's 234 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,400 like maybe it's a lack of faith or maybe it's just like this 235 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,640 idea that we're going to like, we have to be, we have to be 236 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,360 apologetic for it, like. Oh, yeah. 237 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:51,800 And part of the story is that he was raised from the dead too. 238 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,320 And that's what we believe. And so if you want to be a 239 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:55,480 Christian, you have to believe that too. 240 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,880 It's sort of like like just, yeah, sheepish. 241 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,280 You know, we get sort of like, oh, but you know, we sort of 242 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,040 believe this weird thing that this guy actually came back to 243 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,240 life. You know, we need to be like, we 244 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,200 need to be like pronouncing that with like, with gusto and hope. 245 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,120 And like, this is the reason we have hope that that there is 246 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,200 something beyond the grave, you know, there is something beyond 247 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,200 this life. And so, and the and the 248 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:18,560 resurrection of Jesus is proof of it. 249 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,640 So, yeah, I liked your, your your line too. 250 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,600 A dead a dead Jesus equals dead preaching and a dead faith. 251 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,080 And I thought that was just really that really like punched 252 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,120 me a little bit as well. You want, you want dead 253 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,760 preaching, just preach a dead Jesus. 254 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,400 No, not a living 1. And so thought that was really 255 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,720 good. ILOLI wrote in my notes. 256 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,400 LOL when you mentioned Bernie Madoff. 257 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,360 Oh man, I feel like, I feel like people, people probably know so 258 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,760 much more than me. I, if anybody really knows me, 259 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,920 it's like, you realize how detached I am from like anything 260 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,480 news related or society or culture related. 261 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,800 Like I, I don't watch the news. I, I don't have social media. 262 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,080 Like I just, I don't know anything, right? 263 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,800 So I'm like, like, this is the name I've obviously heard of 264 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,360 over the years, but like, this was like total shock to me. 265 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,720 Like I I didn't really know the ends of the story. 266 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,400 It's a crazy story. It is wild. 267 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,480 But yeah, just thinking that like all these people that that 268 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,280 had put their faith in him and trusted him and I'll come to 269 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,520 find out it's just a big scam. It's just, you know, a guy 270 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,120 moving around money to different people and taking, you know, one 271 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,320 guy's money and giving it to another guy to make it look 272 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,240 like, you know, and to think that like the work that it would 273 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,480 have taken to organize all of that, you know, a lie. 274 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,680 And you could have just done it honestly, and it probably 275 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:50,920 wouldn't have. Been nearly as much work. 276 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,960 That's true. And then the the amount of 277 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,720 people he had to involve too, which was crazy. 278 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,040 And then because it wasn't just one, like it just wasn't just 279 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,120 him, like he had to involve other people in that. 280 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,840 And then, yeah. And then like most of that money 281 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:07,920 was going to him, you know, So but anyway, I just thought it 282 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,560 was good. It was a good like illustration, 283 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,160 though, of like something that seemed legitimate that turned 284 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,240 out to be fake. And that if, if, if the 285 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,640 Christianity is like the a Ponzi scheme where that seems 286 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,920 legitimate on the surface and then it turns out to be fake. 287 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,880 And and what we're doing is is worthless. 288 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:32,040 But that's where there might be. Yeah, exactly. 289 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,800 And that sort of reminds me, I guess now that you say that like 290 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,440 like I, I sort of thought about during the week when we come to 291 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,120 these sorts of texts, sort of like you're saying about the 292 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,400 resurrection, that like we're sort of embarrassed to talk 293 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,640 about certain parts of our faith because they take an incredible, 294 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,120 they take faith to believe, right. 295 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,480 And so we don't, we don't shy away from that, but maybe 296 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,360 sometimes we do, right. And we're like, I don't want to 297 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,000 sound like an idiot, right? I believe some guy rose from the 298 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,680 dead and he was God, you know, and so, but so I didn't want to 299 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,320 make my sermon apologetics. I didn't want to make it about, 300 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,000 OK, well, I have to, I have to somehow prove the resurrection. 301 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,120 I'm like, you know what? No, I'm, I'm preaching to mostly 302 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,040 people who believe in it. You know, we, we always sort of 303 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,280 assume that there are some non believers that come to church 304 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,160 and are sitting there, but most of the people there believe in 305 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,200 the resurrection. And so I don't have to prove to 306 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,880 you the resurrection is true and I can't prove it anyway. 307 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,760 I, there's nothing I can do to prove the resurrection, but it 308 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,960 sort of did make me think of, if anybody knows the Babylon Bee, 309 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,680 they're sort of like that. They make, they make satire and 310 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,720 so they make fake stories just for effect, just to be funny. 311 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,440 And it reminds me of a video that they had made about the 312 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,120 resurrection. Had you seen that one with the 313 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,520 disciples? I mean, I may have seen it, but 314 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:47,840 no, I don't think, I don't remember. 315 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,520 So is this pretend story of the disciples sitting around like, 316 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,600 you know, lamenting the fact that, well, now, now our 317 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,040 leader's dead, right? Jesus is dead, what are we going 318 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,920 to do? And one of the disciples is 319 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,520 like, you know what, let's dig up his body and we'll just say 320 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,640 he rose from the dead. And then everybody's like, yeah, 321 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,760 what a great idea. And then it'll like, and then 322 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,320 we're all gonna die for our faith and die for the story to 323 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,680 prove that it's real. And then everybody's like, yeah. 324 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,080 And then one guy's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, that last part 325 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,960 you just said. And so anyway, it's just like 326 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,360 sort of this funny story that like to think that these guys 327 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,840 would make something out this fake story, dig up Jesus from 328 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,080 the grave and make it look like he rose from the dead and then 329 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,880 be willing to suffer and die for that. 330 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,360 And like all the while going to spread their message everywhere 331 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,000 they went. Like it's it really is just the 332 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,680 most ridiculous thing ever. It is, it is it's, it has to be 333 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,160 true. It's so ridiculous that the 334 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,080 story has to be true. Like any any plausible like 335 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,600 reason why they would make it up. 336 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,160 And then all like the the other one that Paul like brings out in 337 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,640 the text that I preached last week, that the one that so many 338 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,400 eyewitnesses, over 500 people saw him at the same time. 339 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,640 I mean, that's enough. That's enough witness for me 340 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,839 that there's no way that all those people hallucinated that 341 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:10,720 same event at exactly the same time. 342 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,240 So. Well, and I actually, I didn't 343 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,040 say this. I didn't say this in the first 344 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,720 service. It, it came to my mind in the 345 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,319 second service when I brought up that point of all the people 346 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,800 that saw Jesus, it was 500 people. 347 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,240 And I, I sort of was looking around the room. 348 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,800 I'm like, you know, there's 300 people in this room right now. 349 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,720 And it's like we add 200 more people to that. 350 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,880 And to think that like he appeared to 500 people at the 351 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,680 same time. Like it sort of just dawned on 352 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,520 me in that moment that it's like, wow, that's a huge crowd 353 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,040 of people that all saw him at the same time. 354 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,680 Like would they all have been same time, same time? 355 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,080 No, that's must. Have been something in the gravy 356 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:47,160 that day. I don't know. 357 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,240 Yeah, No, you're exactly right. It's like Paul and Paul's making 358 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,480 that that very same point and he's saying, hey, if you don't 359 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,080 believe me, go talk. Some of them are still alive, 360 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:57,960 right? Go talk to him. 361 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,040 Unfortunately, we can't. So yeah, I think it's really, 362 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,240 really good. And then I liked you brought in 363 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,280 the that Paul wanted to be seen as a man of integrity. 364 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,240 I thought that was really good. And and how he used that in 365 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,240 other letters, that was very I don't know. 366 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,520 I don't know why it struck me that you that you brought that 367 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,080 out so much, but it did. It made me think, yeah, Paul is 368 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,720 like basically like appealing to them based saying, hey, I'm 369 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,920 trustworthy, you can trust me. This is the truth. 370 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,120 And I don't know why he felt like he needed to do that over 371 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:32,640 and over again, but sometimes he did. 372 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,680 Yeah, and I, I guess it sort of dawned on me too, because, 373 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,520 because again, I, I didn't want to get into the whole 374 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,400 apologetics thing, but this, this is sort of an apologetic 375 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,200 that that is to, to assume that the disciples wanted to be 376 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,080 dishonest or were willing to be dishonest goes against it sort 377 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,000 of goes against what they had been taught by their master of 378 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,640 their whole this their whole, his whole ministry anyway, 379 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,680 right. That they were, they were 380 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,920 brought up on the principles of being trustworthy and telling 381 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,160 the truth and they believed in the 10 commandments. 382 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,200 One of the things which is don't lie, right. 383 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,040 And so to think that these guys would just be so willing to 384 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,560 distort the truth. I, I felt like it was important 385 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:18,320 for him for, for Paul to say we would be misrepresenting God if 386 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,960 we were saying that he raised Christ from the dead and he 387 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,560 didn't like and sort of that's important to him to go. 388 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,800 It's like we would be lying and why would we, why would we do 389 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,120 that? Why would we want to lie? 390 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,200 And so and then like, I just sort of, sort of made me think 391 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,840 like I know he says that in other letters. 392 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,480 And so I was sort of did some research and, and found all the 393 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,880 different areas where it's like, you know, he's very committed to 394 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,840 telling the truth. And, and it shows you like he 395 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,720 didn't just sit down and write, hey, OK, just write down a 396 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,440 letter. I think he was more careful than 397 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,680 that when he wrote his letters, to be careful and to do his 398 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,040 research and made sure he had the right facts and to make sure 399 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,440 that he was being a man of integrity and speaking the 400 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:54,840 truth. Yeah. 401 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,800 And even like, I'm just thinking about his life. 402 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,600 Like for him it may have been even more important for him to 403 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,600 say, you know, because he came from the persecuted, the 404 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,760 persecution side. Like he came from it being a 405 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,880 persecutor and now he's being persecuted and he's like, why? 406 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,760 Why would I not tell the truth? Like if this, if I didn't 407 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,920 believe this, my whole heart, there's no way I would be doing 408 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,240 this. Yeah, because he would have been 409 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,480 killing people. He was still would have been 410 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,200 going at going at it or he would have just died blind. 411 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,640 Right. That I think that's that's the 412 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,360 other alternative. Christ was going to stop Paul 413 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,200 from doing what he was doing, persecution of the church. 414 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,360 He's either going to use him or he was just going to finish him. 415 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,560 And so thank, thank him. You know, thankfully he did just 416 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,040 use him. So, yeah, absolutely, we can 417 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:41,920 have confidence in the resurrection because there's so 418 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,320 many eyewitnesses. I love that. 419 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,360 I don't know if you saw this link or this quote from Shriner 420 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:51,040 or not, but like, I was thinking about this text and I was 421 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,520 looking back through his commentary and he says, like, if 422 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,960 the resurrection isn't true, then we're misrepresenting God. 423 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,280 Like you, you brought that point out in your text, in your 424 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,640 sermon. And then he says we again see 425 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,200 the inextricable link between the destiny of believers and the 426 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,520 resurrection of Christ. If believers will not be raised 427 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,680 in the future, Paul asserts most emphatically, Christ is not 428 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,280 raised. The two are bound together. 429 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,880 And I think that's just like where the hope comes in for me, 430 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,680 like all of this, like, because let's be honest, like living a 431 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,480 Christian life is hard. It's really, really hard at 432 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,040 times. And there's just having hope for 433 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,640 the future that there's that there's something that we're 434 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,560 living for. It just means so much to me. 435 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,920 Like then knowing that that we are this, this union with Christ 436 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,880 is more than just union. And like the spirits in me so I 437 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,160 can live a life here. Union and Christ means raised as 438 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,880 well, and resurrection. And that's just so cool to think 439 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,760 about. Yeah, and I, it is it is 440 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,560 absolutely vital to our understanding. 441 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,440 You know, when writer of Hebrews talks about all the heroes of 442 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:06,200 faith, it's Moses in particular that he that he mentions like 443 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,120 was willing to, was willing to, you know, forsake earthly 444 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,280 pleasure and earthly treasures for heavenly ones, right. 445 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,760 And I think that that's sort of the whole faith that we follow 446 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,040 is people who are willing to to look to a world not of this 447 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,040 world, right? That this is not this is not 448 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:25,760 home. This is not where we're going to 449 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,400 land. And I think that's Paul's whole 450 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,520 point at the end of my text, verse 19. 451 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,440 If in Christ we have hope in this life only we're of almost 452 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,560 all people, most to be pitied like we do have hope in the next 453 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,880 life, which gives us, like you said, an incredible comfort, 454 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,800 incredible hope. You know what joy to know that 455 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,880 there's going to be suffering and there's going to be hard 456 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,040 things in this life. But it's not just this life. 457 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,920 You know, you really do understand. 458 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,680 Honestly, I, I feel like, OK, the resurrection is not true. 459 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,360 I mean, you start to sympathize with the world and you start to 460 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:03,400 sympathize with them to go when an injustice happens to them, 461 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,160 like drunk driver kills someone in your family or something like 462 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,640 that, right? You get why some people make it 463 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,640 their life's mission to like, I am going to make that guy pay or 464 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,520 I'm going to make sure he gets in jail or I am going to 465 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,200 whatever. I'm going to start an 466 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,440 organization that's against that. 467 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,920 And those some of those things are good. 468 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,520 I'm not saying that they're fruitless or or vain or 469 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,960 whatever, but I'm just saying you get why people sort of like, 470 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,880 fueled by bitterness and resentment, will, will pursue 471 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,800 those things. But for us as believers, we 472 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,520 trust those things into the Lord's care. 473 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,120 And we trust that, you know, even though it's still wrong, We 474 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:42,600 trust that he knows and that he has it in his hand. 475 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,200 And we're looking to a hope that's beyond this life and a 476 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,240 hope. Yeah, exactly there. 477 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,600 There's something else to hope in, because this life isn't all 478 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,360 there is. Yeah, it makes me think of when 479 00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:56,320 you're talking about talking through that, the hope. 480 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,880 And it made me think, and you may use that example of like 481 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,200 someone, your family member dying as a result of someone 482 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,560 else's sin, right. Like, and then I start thinking 483 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,680 about like, what are examples that come to mind that are 484 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:11,280 people who had the opportunity for vengeance or maybe like 485 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,040 could have gone and expressed that and didn't. 486 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,160 And I was just thinking about we've we've used them as an 487 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,840 example before. But Elizabeth Elliott had every 488 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,960 right to be angry and upset at the death of her husband at the 489 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,800 hands of these natives down in South America. 490 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,040 But what did she do? She didn't like form an 491 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,800 organization to go and wipe out tribes. 492 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,720 She, she, she figured out a way to take the gospel back to them. 493 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,920 And I think in some way it may be that, that, you know, this 494 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,280 hope in the resurrection, this idea that, that, that this life 495 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,200 isn't all that there is. It may have fueled her. 496 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,640 I don't know. I haven't read her story like 497 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,600 some people have. But I would I have to, I have to 498 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,000 believe that something like this is what's fueled her that there 499 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,480 is that, you know, Jim Elliott is not gone, he's gone from from 500 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,000 earth, but he's, he's, he's with the, you know, with Jesus and, 501 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,680 and he and she wanted the same things that he wanted. 502 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,240 He wanted this, this tribe to be saved, to have the gospel to 503 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,280 believe. And so it was more important for 504 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,080 her to do that than they didn't seek retribution. 505 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,280 So anyway, I just thought, I just thought about like there's 506 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,320 so many other stories about like people who have like have every 507 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,720 right to do that. But then instead they give him 508 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,360 the gospel. So I pray that I would be. 509 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:24,760 I would be that person. Right. 510 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,840 Not like the vengeful person. Yeah. 511 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,560 So we can't have confidence in this life and a life to come. 512 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,040 Yeah. It's good. 513 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,600 And then, you know, the Justin Martyr story was helpful at the 514 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,760 end of your sermon. I thought that was really good. 515 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,640 I don't. I can't remember exactly how it 516 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,200 was tied in. So you want to give me something 517 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,160 on that? Yeah. 518 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:53,360 So I, I was just sort of emphasizing at the end that we 519 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,640 should, we should put our faith because, because we can have 520 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,920 such confidence in, in the resurrection that, you know, our 521 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,880 sins are forgiven. Christ did rise from the dead 522 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,280 and we will too. That gives us hope and meaning 523 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,200 and purpose in this life. Since we can't have that 524 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,680 confidence, we should be able to endure any difficulty in this 525 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,320 life looking to the hope we have in Christ. 526 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,960 That's sort of what we've just been talking about. 527 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,720 And that's tie. That's where I tied it into this 528 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,640 Justin Martyr. That's exactly what he did. 529 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,920 And so I don't, I don't know much of this guy's story, but I, 530 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,720 I know I've read some of his stuff for some of our classes. 531 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,840 I know we had to read it. And he, he was sort of like an 532 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,760 early apologist, right? Like some of the, some of the 533 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,080 rumors that were going on and, and again, the, the Christians 534 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,560 were being persecuted and some of the things that they were 535 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,360 saying is like, oh, they eat each other's. 536 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,520 They, they, they're eating blood and, and eating, drinking blood 537 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,840 and eating flesh, right? Like what's going on there? 538 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,160 A misunderstanding of the Lord's Supper, right? 539 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,320 Right, exactly. So a misunderstanding of the 540 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,600 Lord's Supper and and things like the holy kiss and like 541 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,560 they're like incest and so different, all all sorts of 542 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,280 different things. It's like some sort of origin. 543 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,080 And so they thought that's what they thought of the early 544 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,680 churches. So all these different things 545 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,680 that people were accusing Christians of that weren't true. 546 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,400 And so he wrote letters to emperors and to different people 547 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,480 that he had formed a relationship with so he could 548 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,240 inform them and actually correct these misunderstandings. 549 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,120 But but he wasn't a Christian. Like he grew up in a Pagan 550 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:24,320 family and and was searching for the meaning of life and finally 551 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,600 found Christ when an old man shared Christ with him and he 552 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,240 gave his life to Christianity to anybody who would listen and 553 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,920 debated many skeptics. But he ended up being beheaded 554 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,600 for his faith and he was completely unwilling to to 555 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,080 surrender, to submit. He was not willing to turn, he 556 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,520 says to turn from the Christianity to to worship the 557 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,280 Romans gods. He said no one who is rightly 558 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,240 minded turns from true belief to false, which I feel like is such 559 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,320 a great, that's such a great statement. 560 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,400 It is. I know I've thought of, I love, 561 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,200 I think of like the disciples statements too. 562 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,680 When when people start, you know, there were so many people 563 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,920 following Jesus all the time and then at one point a bunch of 564 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,400 people leave. I think it was actually right 565 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,480 after the Lord's or the whoever eats. 566 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,480 Him, he says, talk of me. Exactly. 567 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,920 Yeah. He's like Jesus, said something 568 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,720 really weird. Unless you eat of my body and 569 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,520 drink of my blood like you have no part of me and everybody. 570 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,640 'S like like this guy's a vampire. 571 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,440 We got to get out of here. Everybody leaves and then he 572 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,800 turns to the disciples and he's like, are you guys going to 573 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,920 leave too? And I just love like their 574 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,400 statement. It's like, where else are we 575 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,640 going to go? And it's like you have the words 576 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:35,800 of. Life, I think, is what that is, 577 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,160 what they say, right? Something like that, yeah. 578 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,880 Like. We we have the truth. 579 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,400 I mean, where are we going to go? 580 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,400 If this is the truth? What else are we going to do? 581 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,880 And I just love that resolve to go like, if this is true, I we 582 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,280 just have to stay here and just figure out what this this body 583 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,760 is blood's all about, right? We don't really. 584 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,000 Understand what you're talking about. 585 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,840 But we, we, we're committed, right? 586 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,360 I think that's so good. And I think you said I don't. 587 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,160 Know if you said this or I thought about it like I know you 588 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,640 did say this, these things give feet to our faith, right? 589 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,680 Like this, like the, the like believing the resurrection and 590 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,720 and being committed to the truth of the resurrection is what is 591 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,000 what fuels our faith. It gives us like the ability to 592 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:22,520 take steps of faith and then a faith worth living for is 1 593 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,680 worth dying for. And I thought that was a really, 594 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,560 really good point. And it like ties into the to the 595 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,800 Justin Martyr conversation. But like and then asking myself 596 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,920 like just thinking application wise like. 597 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,640 Am I willing to die? For it. 598 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,680 Am I willing to to sacrifice my family for it? 599 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,360 And, you know, if we're willing to live for it, then we must be 600 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,280 willing to die for it. And I think that's something 601 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,680 that we should all like we need to reconcile and come to terms 602 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,480 with, Right? So yeah. 603 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:54,120 Yeah. It's really. 604 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,640 Really good. And there are a lot of stories 605 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,240 of early martyrs in the early Christian faith like that. 606 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:03,440 And they they, I mean, all the disciples, most of the disciples 607 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,040 died. I think all of them except John. 608 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,920 I think people think that John probably died of old age on the 609 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,440 island of Patmos, but. All the disciples died for 610 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,400 their. Faith, many early Christians 611 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,160 died for their faith and they're persecuted. 612 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,560 And and, you know, we had, we were praying for the persecuted 613 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,600 church back in November or earlier this month here at the 614 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,600 church on a Sunday night. And that's there's believers 615 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,720 around the world right now. We're we're very far removed 616 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,440 from that. But they're suffering and dying 617 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,920 for their faith right now. Yeah. 618 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,720 And it's something we have. To keep, we have to keep that in 619 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,600 mind, right? Yeah. 620 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,080 And, and we have to ask ourselves the question, would we 621 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,840 be that bold, right? Like when it came to shove and 622 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,400 Christianity was outlawed, would we stand up for our faith, you 623 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,240 know? Yeah, we have different. 624 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,960 Challenges that definitely we have different challenges, but 625 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,160 we don't have that challenge yet. 626 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,040 And I honestly, though, Joe, I don't know how how much longer 627 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,960 we'll be able to, like, be free to do things like what we're 628 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,960 doing now and like, having a chat across an international 629 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,520 border about the gospel, Like, who knows what could happen in 630 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,360 five or six years or even like, having the ability to just 631 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,280 freely upload whatever we want to the Internet and it'd be 632 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,480 gospel related. So yeah. 633 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:15,800 Yeah. So man, I thought it was a 634 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,920 really good sermon. I really appreciated it even 635 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,680 though I had to listen after it was preached. 636 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,280 That's always sad to me. There's something missed. 637 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,680 I don't know. I don't know if you feel this, 638 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,800 but there's something missed. It's so different listening to 639 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,000 something recorded like a sermon rather than being in the room 640 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,600 and, and just feeling, feeling it in the in the room. 641 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,800 I don't know if how you feel about that. 642 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,360 Is it different for you? No, I, I do. 643 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,600 Agree with you like there's times even where you know if you 644 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,200 heard something live and then you go back to like, oh, I got 645 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,920 that sermon was so good and you like try to go back to listen to 646 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,120 it over then you're like, Nah, it just wasn't the same sort of 647 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,120 because you heard it once maybe or. 648 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,920 Yeah, maybe just you just imagined in your maybe it hit 649 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,480 you harder the Holy Spirit working in that in that time and 650 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,480 space, right. And he convicted you in the 651 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,120 moment and then you go back and you're like, I don't know why 652 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,120 that convicted me so much. And it really had nothing to do 653 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,680 with what the guy said. It just had the time that the 654 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,840 Holy Spirit wanted to convict your heart for something. 655 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,640 So. But yeah, it is it is difficult 656 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,200 to listen to them. And then, well, mostly because I 657 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,200 was listening with my headphones and kids were talking and 658 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:25,200 running around and playing piano and all the things and I'm, I'm 659 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,120 a very easily distracted person. So. 660 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,120 But no, I thought it was a really good sermon. 661 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,640 Really, really helpful. What would be your, your biggest 662 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,120 application point if you had to like hammer it home one more 663 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:41,760 time for the for the sermon? Yeah, I guess just. 664 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:47,360 Just like, I guess I was trying to think, what does this, what 665 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,840 does this mean for us? Like how do I, how do I, you 666 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,120 know, as as pastors were trying to think of application in the 667 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,960 sermon and I was sort of struggling through like, what 668 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,840 application does this have to our life? 669 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,040 And I and I think it is just, well, if you really believe it, 670 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,080 then you're going to then you're going to live it out, right? 671 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,280 Like what does the resurrection mean? 672 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,800 Well, the resurrection means that Christ really was God and 673 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,320 he really did come and he really didn't die and he really was 674 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,120 raised, which means this really is true, which just basically 675 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,760 for me just emphasizes everything that everything that 676 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,400 we already talk about all the time, right? 677 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,680 Anyway, it's like, man, why am I not seeking communion with this 678 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,720 God who did, who was willing to go to that extent for me? 679 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,000 Why? Why would I not pursue him in 680 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,720 his word and obey him and pray and call out to him like he's a 681 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,960 living God And that should fuel my faith for me to pursue him 682 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,680 and I guess just to live for a world that's not here, right? 683 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,840 Like that's the, the most important thing that we can do 684 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,800 is not build a life in a Kingdom here, but to look forward to 685 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,680 that life in that Kingdom in the next World. 686 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,120 Yeah, we are. What is the book of? 687 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,320 Oh, it is a book we had to read for seminary, I think, in 688 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,840 systematic theology. Oh, we're sojourners and 689 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,160 strangers. Yeah, like we are. 690 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,000 We are just. Like foreigners passing through, 691 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,880 this is not, this is not our home. 692 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,600 So, yeah, I think I think too, like if you take your, if you 693 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,080 take your points to your to like as you were explaining it there, 694 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,239 I started thinking about your points. 695 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,600 They're they're phrased in the negative. 696 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,560 But if you like, say, if it's true, then our message is 697 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,639 meaningful, right? And then our witness is 698 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:31,280 something that's worthwhile. And so we have, we should spread 699 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,679 it and then our faith produces fruit. 700 00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:38,120 I think just making those positive, which you did a great 701 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,360 job of in the sermon, like at the, you know, as you were 702 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,880 flushing out the point, you said, you know, if it's fake, 703 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,320 then it's meaningless, but it's not. 704 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,960 And you kept going back to it, coming back to it, hammering at 705 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,800 home. So yeah, I thought it was a it 706 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,320 was a really good sermon, really helpful. 707 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,840 And I know, I know it will be helpful for a long time because 708 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,360 now we have it recorded and then the Internet on the ether 709 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,560 forever. So yeah. 710 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,360 So let's get any other final words on the sermon. 711 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:06,640 No, that's it. I'm. 712 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,040 Excited for Jake Sturman this coming Sunday. 713 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:11,280 He's going to sort of talk about I didn't, I didn't want to like 714 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,880 dive too much into the next section because I was thinking 715 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,880 like he he really starts to like he starts to go into the 716 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,120 positive direction, but I wanted to learn and he starts to flush 717 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:20,120 out this. Union, right? 718 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,080 Yeah. Yeah. 719 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,200 And so. So yeah, I'm. 720 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,880 I'm really excited with with Jake Sturman this Sunday and, 721 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,720 and how he's going to sort of bring the positive side up and, 722 00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:30,600 and there's a lot of really interesting stuff. 723 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,560 So for anybody who's coming to church this Sunday, I would read 724 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,720 ahead, read the First Corinthians 15 verses 20 through 725 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:42,160 34, and, yeah, come prepared to to hear what Jake's going to say 726 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,320 on Sunday. I think that's going to be 727 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,080 exciting. Yeah, it's. 728 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,240 Going to be good, looking forward to it, looking forward 729 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:48,480 to discussing it again next week. 730 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,360 Did you have anything we can, we cannot have anything if you 731 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,520 don't have anything. But do you have anything that 732 00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,760 you like that you would like to share with the the 10s of people 733 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,200 who listen to our podcast? Yes, I do. 734 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:11,000 The 10s of people, they're out there, but we appreciate the 735 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,560 encouragement. I know there's people out there 736 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,040 who encourage us and and say that they really, really enjoy 737 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,320 the podcast. So we're grateful for that. 738 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,880 This, we're doing it for you. This is not, this is not for us. 739 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,920 This is not what I don't know. It could be a lot of things, but 740 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,360 it's none of those things. It's just simply for us to help 741 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,120 our church. Yeah, it is. 742 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:30,560 It's. Good. 743 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,000 It's it's a lot of fun too. That's that's one reason we do 744 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,400 it because it's fun. But another reason is because we 745 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,320 we have more we want to share, right. 746 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,440 But yeah, anyway, yeah, so things like. 747 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:45,440 The book I started re listening to, not reading, listening to is 748 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,880 called The Speed of Trust, The One Thing That Changes 749 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,760 everything by Stephen Covey. And so this is actually, I know 750 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,840 Stephen Covey's a guy that I should be reading more, but I 751 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,000 haven't really read much from him. 752 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,160 And this is the first book I've read. 753 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,840 I haven't even read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People yet. 754 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:05,640 Shame on you. That's. 755 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,360 That's on my. List but the speed of trust by 756 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,800 Stephen Covey and I just as a leader, I was interested in in 757 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,920 in listening to this book and learning about it because trust 758 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,480 is so important in leadership. And one of the things that 759 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,840 really struck me in the very beginning of the book is he 760 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,560 says. Trust. 761 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,920 Is confidence. When When people. 762 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,840 Have confidence in you as a leader, but on the negative 763 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:39,480 side, when you don't have trust, there's suspicion, and that 764 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,680 really struck me. And was a. 765 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,360 Sort of AI guess, a stark reminder for me as a leader and 766 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,600 I think anybody, right? Like in any one of our lives, 767 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,280 right? If you're a parent or if you are 768 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,040 at work, you know, are you a person that people have 769 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,000 confidence in or are you a person that people are 770 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,360 suspicious of? Right. 771 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,280 And we don't always get to decide what people think of us. 772 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,800 It depends on who they're talking to or what people are 773 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,040 saying. We so we don't always know that, 774 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,440 but you can do things that's at some point, right, With the way 775 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,680 you carry yourself and the way that you work and, and the way 776 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,200 that you live your life. Are, are you a person who, who 777 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,800 is trustworthy and, and who people can put their confidence 778 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,280 in? And if not, and if people are 779 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,960 suspicious of you working, working on ways to sort of bring 780 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,920 that back, how can you become a trustworthy person? 781 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,440 That's good. So, Stephen Covey, what was the 782 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,400 book title again? The speed of Trust. 783 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,440 The speed, yeah. The speed of trust, that's 784 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,960 really good, Really, really good. 785 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,960 So I was trying to think like I'm there's a couple things on 786 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,040 my mind right now. Christmas is coming around. 787 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,520 I'm not normally into Christmas until after American 788 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,240 Thanksgiving, but like living in Canada has made it seem like it 789 00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:57,880 should come sooner. And so I've been thinking about 790 00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,920 Christmas time a lot. I haven't mentioned this on the 791 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:04,880 podcast before, but it's the Savior is Born by Doctor Bill 792 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,320 Cook. It's I've been starting, I 793 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,800 started reading it and that book is just set up so well. 794 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,920 I think he has a way of, of teaching a topic that you're 795 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,520 familiar with and like a fresh way and helps you see it in a 796 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,600 really good way. Like the, the 1st chapter goes 797 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,720 to the genealogy of Matthew. And like if you read through the 798 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:27,160 genealogy in Matthew and the chapter one, you're like, why 799 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,000 are we getting all these names? And like he's got like 15 pages 800 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,000 on explaining like who these people are and why they matter. 801 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,080 And it's just, it's just super helpful like to get that like a, 802 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,440 a scholar's perspective with a pastor's voice. 803 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:42,880 I don't know if that's kind of like that. 804 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,440 I don't know if that makes sense, but like it's, it's very 805 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,000 intelligent. He knows what he's talking 806 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,760 about, but he's talking to me like I am a third grader and I 807 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,480 can, you know, I can read it and understand it. 808 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,120 And, and then there's a section in every chapter that that that 809 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,880 goes deeper. And so he'll like, he'll like 810 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,240 take a principle or something that that comes up in the story 811 00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:05,600 of Jesus birth and he'll expand and go deeper and give you a 812 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,600 little bit more than you than you thought you that then he 813 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,520 could do in the chapter. So I I just really appreciate 814 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,160 him and. Just because he was my pastor 815 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,560 for so long, but also his he just has a way of like conveying 816 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,080 information in book form. I mean, he's a smarter than 817 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,160 anybody I know, but he can he can definitely like convey it to 818 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,240 us in a way that I understand. And so a savior is born by 819 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:32,640 Doctor Bill Cook or William F Cook on the title. 820 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,600 I'll put the I'll put it in the notes again. 821 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,000 Come in that to you for Christmas time. 822 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,880 Very, very good reference for us. 823 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,040 So that was my thing. I like this right now. 824 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,680 I've already said it on the podcast, which is crazy, but I 825 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:45,840 really like. I've had a chance to read it 826 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,040 now, so it's even more recommended. 827 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,120 Nice, nice. Yeah. 828 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,880 That's good. I I would love to read that book 829 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,720 too. It's always, like you said, 830 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:55,280 coming up to a time of year where. 831 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,120 You know, even thinking. As a pastor, you're, you're 832 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,480 almost tempted to, to not say anything because you just feel 833 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,080 like people tune out, right? Like you're going to sing 834 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,800 Christmas songs that, you know, everybody's heard 1000 times 835 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,120 before and not, not maybe more than 1000 times, right? 836 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,440 You, they're going to hear it 1000 times probably before we 837 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,840 sing it in church because people start celebrating Christmas a 838 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,320 month or two in advance, but then all over the years. 839 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,480 And so you just, you just assume that people are going to tune 840 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,280 things out. And so it is sometimes nice to 841 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,040 get a bit of a, a fresh spin or a fresh take. 842 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,600 I I know I've even heard of churches that will emphasize 843 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,360 some of the negative things about the Christmas story 844 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,480 because we so emphasize the positive things, right? 845 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,520 Like perfect. Little baby. 846 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,880 Who didn't even cry, right? The silent night. 847 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,920 Like whoever heard of a baby that didn't cry? 848 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,080 Yeah, exactly. And so you. 849 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,440 Emphasize all these perfect and everything was picture perfect 850 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,800 and the the little crib and I'm in the corner and there was nice 851 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,320 decor and all these like fancy things going on. 852 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,520 And it's like, yeah, what about Herod killing all the babies in 853 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,320 in Bethlehem? You know what about that? 854 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,400 What about Joseph Amir having to flee to Egypt? 855 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,680 You know, what about, you know, all these different things that 856 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,120 went wrong and there being no room in the inn and having to be 857 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,560 born in a stable, like. And so you take these like, so 858 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,680 I, I when I've heard those sermons, I'm like, that's 859 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,720 actually really interesting. Like, things didn't go the way 860 00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:21,520 that they should have, right? That yeah, it was not a birth or 861 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,600 anything fit for a king, right. Doctor ELF, actually. 862 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,200 Doctor Jeff ELF back at home too, in their home church in 863 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,000 Louisville, he preached a sermon at Christmas time. 864 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,880 That was one of my favorite sermons ever preached. 865 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,560 And he brought something out about Herod and the and the, the 866 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,640 babies then. And I just thought, man, it's 867 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,000 such a good point and I'll try, I'll try to find that sermon and 868 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,600 link it too. It's it's a very good sermon to 869 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,320 listen to. And it was sort of taking 870 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,760 something that you haven't thought about, right. 871 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,480 Of course, Christmas goes. I have one more thing. 872 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,720 I like any when you you mentioned songs and then you and 873 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:52,320 I were talking about Christmas songs the other day and you're 874 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,280 not going to sing the song in church, but I will link it so 875 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,320 that people can hear it. Maybe you heard it already, but 876 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,920 it's called He who is Mighty. And just like the chorus of that 877 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,760 song talking about, you know. We we read all. 878 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,160 Through scripture about the might of the Lord, right? 879 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,720 The Lord of armies. You hear that in Psalms and and 880 00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:13,320 then he says the, the the chorus of son says he who is mighty has 881 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,880 done a great thing taking on flesh and conquered death's 882 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,520 thing, shattered the darkness and lifted our shame. 883 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,120 Holy is his name and it's so cool to think about like Jesus, 884 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,520 who was there as the conduit of creation, right? 885 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,440 He's he's who with the the whole world, the universe was created 886 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,080 through. He's done a. 887 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,040 Great thing by taking on flesh so that he could conquer death, 888 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,160 lifting our shame and so that we can so he can be praised. 889 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,720 It's just an amazing thing to think about. 890 00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:48,520 And so I wasn't always a lover of Christmas, but more and more 891 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,040 I am because it ushers in. I think it's fitting that we're 892 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,680 talking about the resurrection around Christmas as well because 893 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,560 without the resurrection, Christmas is meaningless. 894 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,600 And so I think it's just really, really good for us to to be 895 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,240 focused on the resurrection leading up in Advent as we 896 00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:07,720 anticipate the birth of Christ, focusing on like what it all 897 00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:09,440 means. Really, really cool. 898 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,080 The Lord worked that out for us. So, yeah. 899 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,400 And that's a. That song is based on Mary's 900 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:15,360 song. I don't know. 901 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:16,560 I don't know if you said that or not. 902 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,440 It's based on Mary's song in in Luke. 903 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,840 And so, yeah, just a beautiful reminder of of God bringing 904 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,200 beauty from the ashes. Maybe we introduce it. 905 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:28,840 At Easter. Maybe. 906 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,280 I'm just being. Stupid now, sorry. 907 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,240 It will It will get added. I'll, I'll say this, Lord 908 00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:39,320 willing, if, if we're still around at some point, maybe 909 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,160 it'll be Lord willing and the Creek don't rise. 910 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,520 We will add that. Song 1. 911 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,120 Christmas. Nice. 912 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,440 That's really cool. OK. 913 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,560 So I don't have anything else for today. 914 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,000 I don't know if you do, but you wanted to add no. 915 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,360 No, I'm good. OK, well, we're going to do. 916 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,000 Something a little bit different today, instead of saying, hey, 917 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,280 LAMC, we appreciate you and we're praying for you. 918 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,200 I'm actually going to ask Pastor Joe if he would pray for us as 919 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,840 we close out today's episode. So Pastor Joe, would you pray 920 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,280 for us? Yes. 921 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:12,400 Lord, we're so. Grateful for the opportunity to 922 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,200 minister to these people. We are grateful that you have 923 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,840 called us as shepherds and we pray that you would help us, 924 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,880 help us as pastors to serve them well, to love them well. 925 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,920 We pray that that you would be with our church, all the 926 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,200 different things that that we have going on and then the 927 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,840 growth that we've been able to experience. 928 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,040 Or would you help us to to strive for community, for 929 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,680 relationship, that we want to go deeper and make connections. 930 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,600 And so we pray for our church that that they would take steps 931 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,480 and maybe going out of their comfort zone of inviting someone 932 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,520 over to their home for a meal or for a dessert or something and 933 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,960 just make a connection so that they can grow together in 934 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,720 Christ. And we do thank you for for all 935 00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,280 the people and, and we pray, Lord, that you would continue to 936 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,080 grow us all together in Christ, that that you would build trust 937 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,320 and unity on the gospel that we are. 938 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,600 That is our central focus that the Christ died was buried and, 939 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,320 and was raised from the dead and, and all of the these vital 940 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,600 parts of our faith or that we are not trying to replace it 941 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,240 with anything else, but just simply trying to be faithful to 942 00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:22,720 the gospel. Or would you help us, would you 943 00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:25,720 unify us by the power of your spirit and help us as we seek to 944 00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:27,920 build your Kingdom? And, and I just pray that this 945 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,680 Christmas season would be a blessing to our church and our 946 00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:36,040 and our and our families that they would see the resurrection 947 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,800 as a as a vital part of that. And and put their faith and 948 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,600 trust in Christ and the gospel and the resurrection and and 949 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,160 that you would help them to live lives of boldness and courage 950 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,680 and faith and and sharing the message of the gospel around 951 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,240 this time when when people maybe are more open to hearing it than 952 00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:52,840 others. Or would you give us a boldness 953 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,160 to proclaim Christ and Lord, Would you bear fruit in and 954 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,080 through our efforts as we share the gospel with others for the 955 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,000 glory of your name, We ask this in Jesus name, Amen. 956 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,720 Amen. Thank you, Joe. 957 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,520 Thank you, folks for listening to us. 958 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:07,400 We'll see you next week.