1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,720 Welcome to be on Sunday, an extension of the preaching 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,640 ministry of LEMC. I'm Pastor Jonah Chitty, joined 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,960 here by Pastor Jake Ends and Pastor Joe Pinner. 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,320 How are you guys doing today? Doing all right. 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,000 Good, good. It's really nice weather. 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,600 Like somebody said, it seems like it's Florida outside, but 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,560 yeah, it's really nice. I can still wear my flip flops, 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,280 which is great. No snow yet. 9 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,440 What What is the cut off for you in flip flops? 10 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,320 Is it like a certain amount of snow? 11 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:31,520 I guess you don't really know yet. 12 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,200 This will be your first winter. If I'm not working outside, I'm 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,120 probably going to wear flip flops from the car to the office 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,480 and from my house to the car. It's fine. 15 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:41,840 I'm just going to wear them year round. 16 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:44,680 People are going to make fun of me and that's fine. 17 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,160 But yeah, I'm a flip flop guy. So, Joe, you preached a sermon. 18 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,080 I don't remember the title. I did. 19 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,560 I didn't even reference I. Think you made one up right? 20 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,440 I did I, I sort of just made a title because I had to. 21 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,120 I didn't really reference it in my sermon, but it was how can I 22 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,880 help understanding your spiritual gift, which maybe some 23 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,600 people felt like, well, I didn't really understand it anymore 24 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,480 after the sermon. Then I maybe it's good I. 25 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,880 Didn't put the title on the screen that time. 26 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,440 So your text was First Corinthians chapter 12, verses 27 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,360 1:00 to 11:00, right? Yeah. 28 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,200 So why don't you give us an overview of the sermon and then 29 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,920 we can kind of go from there. Yeah, so again, I, I, I joke 30 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,640 about, you know, maybe people didn't understand it anymore 31 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,440 before than after. And I did sort of feel slightly 32 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,080 guilty about that because I, I know that this is an area where 33 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,600 people really struggle and they struggle to know their gift. 34 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,240 But at the same time, like I, I can't tell you what it is, I, I 35 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,040 can't help you find out what it is. 36 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,040 And, and so I, I thought there were principles in the text that 37 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,400 we really needed to understand before we really got into the 38 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,520 spiritual gifts. But I do feel a burden to, to 39 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,160 help people to know their gifts the best that we can. 40 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,520 And so. I think that I'm going to 41 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:03,640 interrupt you. 1st just a second. 42 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,080 That's fine. And maybe we can get into it 43 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:07,520 later because you're doing your overview. 44 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,840 But like, I think we we may not be able to tell them explicitly 45 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,360 what their gifts are. But like, like you do help me 46 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,440 understand mine, right, by confirming things for me like as 47 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,560 we talk and as and JQ do too, like, you know, we we like 48 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,440 that's part of sharpening each other, I think is helping people 49 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,240 determine what their gifts are. We can't explicitly say, yeah, 50 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,320 you have the gift of prophecy. Well, we don't know that for 51 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,720 sure, but if we see it, we can point out that you have 52 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:34,960 tendencies towards that. Right. 53 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,320 So I didn't mean to interrupt you there. 54 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,080 I just, I didn't want us to, like, make that distinction 55 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,560 right away. Yeah, no. 56 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:43,000 And it, and it is helpful, right. 57 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,520 And, and I guess like we know each other well, right? 58 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,560 And so, and so we're not, we're not obviously going to know 59 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,440 everybody that well that closely. 60 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,400 And, and I guess quite honestly, I, I don't know how much we 61 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,080 think about serving each other and serving in church in terms 62 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,000 of spiritual gifts, right. We usually just look at like, 63 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,840 here's a need in the church or here's an opportunity for 64 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,240 someone to serve. Who do we think would best fit 65 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:06,720 in that role? And so it's sort of like we're, 66 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,480 we're talking about spiritual gifts, but not really talking 67 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,800 about spiritual gifts. We're just looking for the 68 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,880 people that God is gifted to serve in those roles. 69 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,240 The best. And so the principles that I 70 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,080 brought out in my sermon were I had three main points. 71 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,680 The first one was if you have the Spirit, you have a master. 72 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,360 And so I think that's Paul's starting point where he's 73 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,480 talking about, you know, if you have the Holy Spirit, then you 74 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,760 recognize Jesus is your Lord. And so you're no longer of this 75 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,520 world and you're no longer your own. 76 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,200 And so you would use that spiritual gift now to honor your 77 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,520 master and in service of your master. 78 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,240 And that's sort of the starting point. 79 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,760 And if you have this spirit, you have power was the second point. 80 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,280 But we need to recognize that that power is from God and it is 81 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,880 for others. And so we do nothing about what 82 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,760 gift we get, what gift we receive. 83 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,320 It's from God. We don't take any credit for it 84 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,480 and it's not for us. It's not so that I can exalt 85 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,360 myself, but it's for the purpose of serving others. 86 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,120 It's for the common good. Paul says that it's to build up 87 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,160 the church. And so and then the Third Point 88 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,800 was, if you have a gift, have the Spirit, you have a gift. 89 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,960 And so Paul does mention gifts, but I sort of brought up that 90 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,120 it's the Spirit who gets the glory and the Spirit gets to 91 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,800 choose. And so the Spirit is the one who 92 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,640 gives the gifts as he wills. And so he gets the glory for 93 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,480 those gifts. We don't get to take any credit 94 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,200 for them. We don't get to boast in and of 95 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,880 ourselves. They're they're for the church. 96 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,040 And so, but the Spirit is getting the glory because the 97 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,480 Spirit is choosing. And then I spoke, spoke briefly 98 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,680 on each gift that Paul mentions here. 99 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,400 And, and, and really ended like with a with a story of a 100 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,080 conclude or a made-up thing at the end with Austin Matthews, 101 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,960 right. And I really just wanted to get 102 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,200 this at this idea that like in our world, you know, I used 103 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,800 Austin Matthews getting paid $16.7 million a year just to sit 104 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,080 on the bench. You know, that's ridiculous, 105 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,040 right? Like no hockey team would ever 106 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,200 do that. No business would hire an 107 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,200 employee and pay him 50 thousand $60,000 a year to just do 108 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,840 nothing. Like, that's ridiculous, you 109 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:15,400 know, And in the same way, the Spirit doesn't come into your 110 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,480 heart to give you power and to give you a gift for you just to 111 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,520 do nothing, to just sit on the bench, you know, the purpose of 112 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,520 that gift is to edify and strengthen the church and to 113 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,320 help it grow. And until we're all doing that 114 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,320 and all working together, the church will not be built up as 115 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,840 it should be. Yes, it was, it was really that 116 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:40,320 illustration at the end was very impactful to think about. 117 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,400 And, and when you think about like, OK, I mean, even if you 118 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,880 don't know what your gift is there, you, you, you should 119 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,920 realize that you're supposed to be doing something right. 120 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,480 We're not just meant to, to come and to to to take. 121 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,920 They're supposed to be some, some form of, of action on our 122 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,560 part to go out. I think it was a really helpful 123 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:01,440 illustration. I would have used a football 124 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,760 illustration or, or a baseball one. 125 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,880 I thought about like the entire payroll of the Detroit or not 126 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,800 Detroit Lions. Detroit Tigers, Yeah, that one 127 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,200 baseball team that doesn't exist. 128 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,640 Yeah. Anyway, that was less than, 129 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,360 almost, almost less than what Austin Matthews makes in like 130 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,240 one season, which is insane to me. 131 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,560 So, yeah, I would. But the idea on that, that 132 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,600 illustration is really good. Yeah. 133 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,200 And then you went to John, the end of John. 134 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:30,960 And I was thinking about that, too. 135 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,040 John and the disciples are just fishing. 136 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,360 So, So. OK, So Jesus came and spent 137 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:41,920 three years of his life with you, disciple you one-on-one, 138 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,760 and then you're just going to be out fishing. 139 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,120 You're going to go back to the exact same thing that you were 140 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:49,880 doing before. And it's almost the same 141 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,920 illustration, right? He's, he's empowered them with, 142 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,480 with these gifts like they, they now have, I don't know, maybe 143 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,840 they didn't have the spirit just now. 144 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:00,360 He's, he's going to give it to them, right? 145 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,960 This is before the ascension. So but they're sitting around, 146 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,320 they've they've experienced the Lord Jesus and they're they go 147 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,240 back to what they were doing before he came and found them. 148 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,760 And he says, no, you're going to follow me. 149 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,200 You know, I thought it was such a good. 150 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,800 We're not meant to go back to do what we were doing before. 151 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,280 Maybe maybe your maybe your job. Yeah, but there's something 152 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,960 different about you now. There's something that you have 153 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:23,960 to do, right? That's that's that you're 154 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,680 compelled to do by the Spirit living inside you. 155 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,040 So it was really good. I thought it was a good 156 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,880 illustration. Your purpose for existence 157 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,680 changes. Yeah, that's a good way to put 158 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:32,000 it. Yeah. 159 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:33,560 Yeah, really good. Yeah. 160 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,840 So now you you go. Maybe you go back to that same 161 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,000 job you were doing before, but now you're looking for 162 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,320 opportunities to to give glory to Christ by sharing the gospel. 163 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,520 Or I've commented on this before and different people. 164 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,040 That one guy went and told me that when he started out in 165 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,000 ministry, it was basically church. 166 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,080 Always got in the way of everything, he said. 167 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,680 But then eventually he said it changed. 168 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,360 Now everything gets in the way of church. 169 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,920 It can't feel that way when you're not going, when you're 170 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,640 not doing things with the right attitude, when you have your 171 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,720 priorities out of alignment. And often, I mean, I think we 172 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,000 can all fall prey to that trap, right? 173 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,960 Like we feel, oh, I just wish I could have a, a minute to 174 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,840 myself, you know, we could fall. I think we all can fall prey to 175 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:12,480 that. So. 176 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,600 Yeah, I think there's also another element. 177 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,840 When Jesus talks to Peter, Jesus does warn him. 178 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,600 There'll come a day when others will lead you and somebody else 179 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,520 will do this and that for you. And, and it was not necessarily 180 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,040 OK, you're going to have this gift. 181 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,720 You're going to, you're going to feed my sheep and all the wine 182 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,840 and roses that was not there. And so the, the living out of 183 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,240 the gift is not an easy task. It's not an easy, easy journey. 184 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:43,080 Yeah, I think when I was listening to your sermon, the, 185 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:46,640 the idea that that the, that the Spirit is who gives the gifts, 186 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:47,800 right? They're from God. 187 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:51,120 And then like, and then the reason for the gifts that 188 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,200 they're for, they're for the edification of the church. 189 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,920 But then and then also Paul doesn't explicitly mention it 190 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,920 though, but like, but because he keeps saying this, this gift of 191 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,240 the Spirit, it's also to to glorify the sun, right. 192 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,520 So I think it's like I just wrote, I I drew a picture in my 193 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,520 mind or on my paper so I could remember this. 194 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,160 So they come to us like the spirit gives us gifts for us to 195 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,960 give them away, like to give our our to use our gifts to help it 196 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,040 build up the church. And then and then what does that 197 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,200 do? Well, it points back to Jesus, 198 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,360 right. And so because we can't take the 199 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,360 credit, you know, it's they're from the spirit. 200 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,440 We don't get to choose all that stuff. 201 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,840 It's just a really helpful, just just a helpful dissection of the 202 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,280 passage. You did a really good job. 203 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,960 I think like the breaking the passage into different pieces so 204 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,080 that we can understand the gifts are from God for God, right? 205 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,760 Ultimately, they're for him. So, yeah, and I and I think that 206 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,640 that ties into like, like our vision, like we talk about that 207 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,800 as pastors that, you know, we want every ministry of this 208 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,320 church to point to Christ. You know, we would never want 209 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,640 anyone to leave church service or a Wednesday night study or 210 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,320 anything that we do here as a church feeling like we were that 211 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,000 it's it's self help or it's just picking up, picking yourself up 212 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,200 by your bootstraps. Like no, we want the gospel to 213 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,520 saturate everything that we do that everything is empowered and 214 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,680 fueled by Christ. Everything is for the purpose of 215 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:19,960 glorifying Christ and, and everything should point to him 216 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,400 so that people leave here feeling like they need to draw 217 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,080 closer to Christ. Not to us as pastors, not to us 218 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,800 as a church, but everything that we do is pushing people to 219 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:28,840 Jesus. Yeah. 220 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,840 Yeah, and that use the Ephesians passage there. 221 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,440 I think you're right to show like our what did you call it? 222 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,080 You said I forget exactly how you said it, but it's the equip 223 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,480 the Saints for the work of the Church. 224 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,320 Yeah, but I think that would be our purpose statement, right. 225 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,560 Like if if we had to pick something that was like just a 226 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:48,640 verse, I think that would be like we would all agree that 227 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:49,800 that that is what we're here to do. 228 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,800 We're not, we're not here to like to take on all the work for 229 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,440 the church and to do all the work for the church. 230 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,720 We're here to like to empower other people to use their 231 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,440 God-given gift. I think there's a challenge 232 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,240 there for us to to consider. I remember years ago at a 233 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,600 meeting, we were debating in the service, not this church, but in 234 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,360 a different church. We're talking about what we need 235 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,320 so and so or such and such to do this and this and this ministry. 236 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,920 All of a sudden one of our leaders got up and he said if we 237 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,440 want, if it was a youth pastor in particular, he said if we 238 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,760 want a youth pastor or a different another pastor just so 239 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,560 we can do less than we want him for the wrong reason. 240 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,640 I thought that was so deep and so profound, it never left me. 241 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,720 So the point is not to get this and that kind of help so that 242 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:33,880 someone who can sit on the bench. 243 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,400 Right. Yeah. 244 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,720 And I, I remember hearing a pastor share a story like that 245 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,080 years ago where he said, you know, people will come up to me 246 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,160 and they have a burden on their heart for a specific ministry. 247 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,680 And they go, we ought to be doing this. 248 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,840 And then he's like, oh, great, when are you starting? 249 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,440 You know, because I think there is this perception that it's 250 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,920 like, yeah, it would be great if the church did that. 251 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,720 It's like, it's like, it's like I remove my burden and I just 252 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:56,960 hate the church needs to do this. 253 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,560 It's like, well, first of all, no, you are the church. 254 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,800 And so you, if you have a burden, you ought to be doing 255 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,480 it. But it's like, it's so sort of 256 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,960 that idea that like if you're burdened by it, why would you 257 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,760 put delegate it to the church? Because the church is not going 258 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,960 to do as good a job. Someone in the church is not 259 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,600 going to do as good of a job trying to stir up the passion 260 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,480 and emotion that you already. Have. 261 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,960 To do this ministry, it's like you need to be the one to do it 262 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,160 because you're the one that's going to do it with energy and 263 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,640 excitement and you're passionate. 264 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,480 You're fueled by that. And so that's what we would say 265 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,200 as a church. We want to empower people to to 266 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,480 use their gifts to serve. And then if it has happened in 267 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,640 my case where I've talked to an individual, somebody talked to 268 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,960 me, we should be doing XYZ. And then if I kind of push it on 269 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,840 them a little bit, we quickly find out how serious or how 270 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,560 genuine it really is. Yep. 271 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,040 Yeah, right. Because if the fire goes out and 272 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,120 you say OK, take it. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. 273 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,160 Wow, this is an interesting thing. 274 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:53,520 So what are you thinking about? What? 275 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,560 What would you be doing? So when can you what you talk 276 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:57,680 about when to start? How can we do this and kind of 277 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:00,160 make it their job, right. All of a sudden some and some 278 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,880 are doing very well. They have, I have this thought, 279 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,040 I have this plan. And then you just roll with it 280 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,760 and you just affirm them and you just support them others. 281 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,640 No, no, I wasn't thinking about myself so much. 282 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:09,600 I think the church. Should. 283 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,600 Yeah, I've had that too. Right. 284 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,000 Yeah. And then you know it's not going 285 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:13,520 to go. Anywhere. 286 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,840 Yeah, exactly. Joe, you also taught us a new 287 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,080 word. Simony Yeah, yeah. 288 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:20,480 I. Thought it was really good. 289 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:24,240 I I I I learned that this week. I'd I'd never knew that. 290 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:25,880 That was interesting. It was really cool. 291 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,880 I think I've heard it before, but I have not for years. 292 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,200 Just something right Again, yeah. 293 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,840 Using religion as a means of gain. 294 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,360 We had a question that didn't come in from to be on Sunday, 295 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,160 but I found it on a child's notes as we were as I was 296 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,040 cleaning up. They wanted to know like what 297 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,720 works? So there for those of you don't 298 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,520 know, like if your kids are in the service, we're putting out 299 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,200 these like little sheets for taking notes for the kids. 300 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,960 They're on the in the foyer for you to grab. 301 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,400 And on there it's got a little section for a word that you that 302 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,080 you found that you don't, you don't understand. 303 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,600 And then like a question that you have from the sermon. 304 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,240 So this one had like, what is a Pagan? 305 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,520 Can you explain what a Pagan is Joe? 306 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,280 What is a Pagan? Pagan is is my least for my 307 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,280 research. Basically someone like who 308 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,440 worships like idols. Anybody other than God. 309 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,320 Yeah, there's not necessarily like the one true God. 310 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,880 It's like sort of like a plurality of of gods that they 311 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,920 worship sort of thing. And then this one's a little 312 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,560 more serious, but it came from the same paper. 313 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,680 And it also was one that I that I had. 314 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,560 And maybe it ties into your title a little bit is, you know, 315 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,880 how do we, how do we assess? Are there things that we can use 316 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,440 not tools. I know that you you had a, a 317 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,160 harsh thing to say about all these like tools that we use or 318 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,880 that you can find on the interwebs for finding your 319 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,480 spiritual gift, but like, what would you recommend as like a 320 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,080 starting point? Yeah, that's a really, that's a 321 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,560 good question. I and and if I came across harsh 322 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,000 against those two, no. You didn't. 323 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,000 I was just. Well, yeah. 324 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,280 And that was interesting to me. Like I had learned that this 325 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:04,240 week. I had never thought of that 326 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,120 before, right? Because I've, I've often thought 327 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,720 about these, these tools and these assessments and, but this 328 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,760 guy had sort of mentioned like, they're not, they're sort of 329 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,840 based on personality assessments. 330 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,600 And so that really doesn't distinguish between necessarily 331 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,680 a spiritual gift. It's distinguishing more between 332 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,480 personality and character traits. 333 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,640 And so I, I guess maybe there's a survey out there or maybe 334 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,800 there's an assessment out there that doesn't focus on those 335 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,760 sorts of traits, but focuses on Scripture in the Bible. 336 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,880 But again, you and I were chatting about this yesterday, 337 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,680 Jonah, and we were just saying that I think, I think it needs 338 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,760 it needs to be something that you do, but you have to bring 339 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,360 somebody else in to that conversation. 340 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,200 Because if I go, hey, you know what, I think I have the gift of 341 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,000 leadership and then I just begin pursuing leadership. 342 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,760 And then someone else is like, you don't have the gift of 343 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,760 leadership. Like someone else needs to 344 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,760 affirm that in you, right? Because you may be misguided and 345 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,480 you may be because we all know people who, who think they're 346 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,080 good at something and it's like, well, maybe, maybe they're not 347 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,320 though. And so I think it's one thing 348 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,240 where it's like you're maybe prayerfully discerning. 349 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,960 I think just I, I, I think I mentioned this, I wasn't very, I 350 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,760 wasn't in my notes 100% of the time on Sunday. 351 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,600 And so I may have said something. 352 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,200 I know I said it in one of the services, but I may not have 353 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,800 said it in the other one, but it was in the recording, which I 354 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,200 listened back to yesterday. And I had said that find an area 355 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,760 that you think you might be that you might want to serve in, in 356 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,040 the church or maybe in a ministry And you sense like, 357 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,480 Hey, I feel like I have a good personality for this. 358 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,320 I feel like I'd be really gifted in it. 359 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,400 And then try try serving in that area and maybe you immediately 360 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,000 recognize like, yeah, this is exactly what I'm looking at and 361 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,760 I'm gifted in it. And then someone else sees you 362 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,800 doing, oh, wow, you're actually really good at that. 363 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,920 Like then, you know, right. Or maybe you do it for a while 364 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,360 and you're like, no, I hate this actually. 365 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,079 And, and I don't like this, I don't feel like I'm gifted in 366 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,319 it. Well, then move on from that and 367 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,640 try something else until you find an area that you feel 368 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,359 empowered in it. So it might just be trial by 369 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,880 error until you find something you feel empowered by. 370 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,240 And I guess that's what I wanted to emphasize that once you find 371 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,440 an area that you are spiritually gifted in, you will like it 372 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,400 because you've been gifted to do it. 373 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,319 And so it won't be a burden. It won't be something that you 374 00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:31,480 feel annoyed at doing. You will be excited and willing 375 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,760 to sacrifice for it. Like you said, Jake, this person 376 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,760 that now it's like now I, I can't get enough of church, 377 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,040 right? Like everything else in life is 378 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,240 getting in the way of me getting to church and serving. 379 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,680 That's exactly what it will be in service that like now, I I 380 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,520 don't mind sacrificing my time to do this thing because I, I 381 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:47,600 enjoy it. Yeah. 382 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,800 I had an experience some years ago, a gentleman who really 383 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,080 believed he had the gift of preaching, and I think only he 384 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,800 believed it. I don't know if anybody else 385 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,640 did. And I felt sad for him because 386 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,080 he was a dear St. and he was a great man of God in every other 387 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,760 way except that he wanted, he wanted the microphone. 388 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,960 And my comment to him was, if God is calling you to do that, 389 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,600 he will affirm it through the body. 390 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,000 It will come out. And he was teaching and I'm not 391 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,520 saying it was bad or anything, but nobody else really thought 392 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,000 that he was a strong teacher or even a preacher at all. 393 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:23,840 And so it, it just, it never went anywhere. 394 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,960 And he was a good man otherwise. But so my, I did have a 395 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,560 question. How do you help a person 396 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,080 sincerely believes they have a particular gift, but no one else 397 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,800 believes it. How do you help to navigate 398 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,000 that? Wow, that's tough. 399 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,800 Well, I think, I think it would be that, that honest way, right? 400 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,960 Like if someone I, I in no way, I mean, it would depend on the, 401 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,800 the area of service, right? Like there, there may be areas 402 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,480 of service where like it's not that they're less important, but 403 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,440 they, they don't require as much. 404 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,200 But let's say we're like ushering like that doesn't 405 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,320 require a whole lot of background training and a 406 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:58,840 background, all these different things. 407 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,080 You don't need a whole lot of, of training to do that. 408 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,920 So that may be a job where it's like we could fill a position 409 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,400 and it's filling, it's meeting a need here at the church and you 410 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,160 get like, well, let's put you there and see how you do. 411 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,480 And then after a while, you know, the head usher comes up 412 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,200 and says, this guy's just horrible. 413 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,680 I can't depend on nothing. He doesn't know what he's doing. 414 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,080 And then maybe you would go, OK, well, maybe you don't have, 415 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,240 maybe maybe that's not an area of service for you. 416 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,720 And so I think it would be like working with that person, being 417 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,480 patient with them, maybe trying to ask questions of like, well, 418 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:28,920 why do you feel you have that gift? 419 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,360 Has anybody else affirmed that gift in you? 420 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:34,320 It has there, has there been anything in your life where you 421 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,920 felt like, let's say it was leadership, let's say, do you 422 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,720 have any stories or, or things that have come up in your life 423 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,600 of, of opportunities that you had to lead, where somewhere 424 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,840 where you led a situation and, and you helped someone? 425 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,480 And so maybe try helping them. And again, if it's like, well, 426 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,760 if there's no fruit of leadership ability in your life, 427 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,840 well, maybe they're just not old enough and maybe they need to 428 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,040 cultivate it more and maybe it needs to be hashed out. 429 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,840 But also maybe they don't have that gift. 430 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,640 I think also sometimes a a person who is very gifted and 431 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,800 doing a great job sometimes just needs affirmation because they 432 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,840 get tired. I think of Moses in the desert. 433 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,680 He'll actually accused God. What did I ever do to deserve 434 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,080 this? God hand picked him and chose 435 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,240 him and and delegated this job to him. 436 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,920 And he was a great leader. He was, he was excellent. 437 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,800 But he did get tired. Yeah, it might be helpful. 438 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:25,600 I'm just listening to you guys talk about it. 439 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,400 It might be helpful to distinguish the gifts, the 440 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,000 spiritual gifts, from areas of service. 441 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:36,040 That's that's. True, because, because like like 442 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:37,880 just let's just, let's just take one example. 443 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,400 Like what would what gift? Spiritual gift would be 444 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:46,000 beneficial for someone on our welcome team to have. 445 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,600 Like friendliness. Like a spiritual gift. 446 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,440 Spiritual gift, not a talent, not something like that. 447 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,000 Let's what is a like a spiritual gift that it would be good for 448 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:56,920 them to have. I think like. 449 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,480 I would like one would be encouragement. 450 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,960 Encouragement, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, you, you, you. 451 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,720 And then the other one, I think would be another one that would, 452 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,320 could, could help would be discernment, being able to 453 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,640 discern is this person having a hard day, a compassionate heart, 454 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,520 someone who has the gift of hospitality, right? 455 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,360 Someone who's like a, a welcoming person already. 456 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:23,160 So like the gift of those gifts, all of them are different, 457 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,120 right? We would say they're all 458 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,040 different. They're all manifestations of 459 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,840 the spirit, but they're all being utilized in one area of 460 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,160 service. So like, for instance, for your 461 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,640 man, for your man who, who's thought, thought he was a great 462 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,280 preacher, well, if he didn't have the gift of knowledge or of 463 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,160 wisdom, then he's probably not going to be a good, good 464 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,880 preacher. Someone who has the gift of 465 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,400 knowledge or wisdom can, can convey truth from the, from the 466 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,000 scriptures and then and then like apply them to someone's 467 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,600 life. Not everybody has that gift. 468 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,560 They may be the best teacher like as far as like teaching 469 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,160 normal things, but they can't explain scripture at all. 470 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,320 That's that's not something that has to gift the spiritual gift 471 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:09,720 of teaching. Yeah. 472 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,560 That's just a talent, right? Yeah, well, and that's that's 473 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,920 probably a good opportunity to talk about those differences 474 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,800 between spiritual gifts and natural talents you. 475 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,280 Actually had a question come in about that. 476 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,480 So what are the like? Can talent become a spiritual 477 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,840 gift? Here's I'll just give you one of 478 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,160 the hypotheticals. You use this one in your sermon. 479 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,640 So if someone has a talent to bake or cook and they love 480 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,440 hosting, is that more of a talent at this point or is it a 481 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,040 spiritual gift? Yeah. 482 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,160 And so the way that the way that I would distinguish talents and 483 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,920 and spiritual gifts is like, I guess the purpose of a spiritual 484 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,240 gift in my mind would be to strengthen someone's faith or to 485 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,840 strengthen someone's understanding or to grow somehow 486 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,120 grow them in Christ, right. And so does eating a pie 487 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:57,560 strengthen my faith in Christ. Sometimes if it's, if it's like 488 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,880 a mince pie, yeah, it restores your faith for sure. 489 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,000 It encourages you. No. 490 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,600 And I, and it's so like that's where I would distinguish it. 491 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,600 It's like, well, no, a pie doesn't strengthen my faith. 492 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,440 Food doesn't strengthen my faith. 493 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,680 Like even like the ability to play a guitar or musical 494 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,080 ability, it doesn't necessarily strengthen my faith at all. 495 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:25,240 But can that gift, can that natural talent rather be used in 496 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,560 tandem with your spiritual gift to strengthen someone's faith? 497 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,480 Yes, absolutely. So if I'm an excellent at baking 498 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,560 pie, which I'm not, then I might use I might bake a really great 499 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,040 pie. And I'm good at making cake 500 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,560 pops. I I do. 501 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,160 I've tried my hand at cake pops and they're pretty good 502 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,200 actually. But yeah, I could now make cake 503 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,840 pops invite some people over and we would have an edifying 504 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,600 conversation talking about our faith, talking about what God's 505 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,440 been teaching us in his word. And so the cake pops aren't 506 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,840 strengthening someone faith, but the conversation that we're 507 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,520 having around that talent that I have that does. 508 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,480 And so how do we use our talents? 509 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,240 And so the same thing with the musical ability, right? 510 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,840 Like the Holy Spirit doesn't gift somebody with acoustic 511 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,200 ability. You know, you don't wake up one 512 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,400 day. Like after I receive the Holy 513 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,200 Spirit, it's like now all of a sudden I can play acoustic 514 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,040 guitar. Amazingly. 515 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,080 No, that's not what he does. That's a natural talent that you 516 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,000 can develop, which you can use to facilitate strengthening 517 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,680 someone in the Lord. And so that's the distinction 518 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,000 that I would make. That's helpful. 519 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:30,800 Yeah, I hope so. And it's helpful for me too, 520 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,720 right. Like I, I, I've been encouraged 521 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,600 by other teachers who have sort of helped to clarify those 522 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,480 different things, but I would say the spiritual gift is a 523 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,040 specific way for you to strengthen someone's faith. 524 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,000 And in my mind, just a practical way that we do that because I 525 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,080 also want to be careful of like maybe we've unhelpfully yoked 526 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,280 together spiritual gifts with service of the church. 527 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:55,440 I. Think so, yeah. 528 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:56,840 And I. Don't think that that's a direct 529 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,120 correlation. Can you use your spiritual gift 530 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:00,480 to serve the church? Yes. 531 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,200 I think so it's true. I think that's true because the 532 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,400 way that the conversation started, right? 533 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,480 Like we, we just naturally, all of us, even in this room, like 534 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:13,280 we naturally gravitated to, Oh, well, you'd use, you know, we 535 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,400 always all of a sudden start talking about like areas of 536 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,040 service, which which I mean, but I think that's like that's the 537 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,240 danger, right, of us thinking like to maybe too broadly or 538 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,880 maybe too narrowly, I don't know, that we're just thinking 539 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,200 in the wrong way. So go ahead. 540 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,720 I didn't mean to cut you off, but we're guilty of it too. 541 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,720 We are. And, you know, well, 542 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,160 conveniently, spiritual gifts is coming up at the season where 543 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,840 we're nominating volunteers for ministries, right? 544 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,760 And so, you know, we really could have pushed for that and 545 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,640 obviously we would encourage people to serve. 546 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,720 I think that's sort of a distinction a brother on Sunday 547 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,240 helped me to see to see that. I mean, I, I recognize the 548 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,560 distinction, but he helped me to see that distinction even more 549 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,480 clearly in the text that it says there's a variety of gifts. 550 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,160 There's a varieties of service, there's a varieties of 551 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,120 activities. And so maybe those are all three 552 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:02,120 separate areas, right? Maybe there's specific gifts 553 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,800 that I can use. And so that gift that I have, 554 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,120 whether it's mercy or knowledge or wisdom, I can use to build 555 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:11,840 someone else up in the Lord. But then there's also activities 556 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,360 in service. And maybe that's where we would 557 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:16,560 say, here's ways for you to be serving in the church to just 558 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,120 practically help us. You know, when we get together 559 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:21,480 on a Sunday, there's a lot of practical things that need to 560 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,680 happen. We need ushers in the parking 561 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,440 lot to help park cars. We need greeters in the 562 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,640 sanctuary to help people find their seats and to welcome 563 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,120 people. We, we need Sunday school 564 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:35,280 teachers and Sunday school helpers to help facilitate those 565 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,280 things. Like there's a practical reality 566 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,040 to those things that are also needed, right? 567 00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:43,320 And so usually your spiritual gift may work in tandem with 568 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,440 that, but also there may just be like a sacrifice involved in 569 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,160 like in giving to the church. But yeah, I, I sort of saw that 570 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,160 like maybe maybe we unhelpfully yoke those things together and 571 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,400 it's not always true. Because I think probably we all 572 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,800 would agree that the greatest way that you should be using 573 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,640 your spiritual gift is not like, oh, well, I was, I did, I did. 574 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,520 I was in Usher on Sunday. And so now my service is done. 575 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,800 No, no, no, no, that's, that's a misunderstanding of what your 576 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,240 spiritual gift is. I think probably the most 577 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,200 practical direction that we're headed as a church is 578 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,320 discipleship groups. Everybody has a responsibility 579 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,200 to strengthen others in their faith. 580 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,680 And so if you're a part of a group of men or women and you're 581 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,080 holding each other accountable to read, you're holding each 582 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,960 other, you're praying for each other, you're memorizing God's 583 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,800 word in those conversations that you're having on a weekly basis. 584 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,760 You're going to strengthen my faith in a way that like, wow, 585 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,360 like you, the way you, God showed that to you and the way 586 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,120 that you saw that, like I would have never noticed that, right, 587 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,200 right. And we can strengthen and edify 588 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,240 each other by sharing what God is doing in US, in and through 589 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,760 us, through His Word, right? And it will also help you find 590 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,360 out what your gifts are, right? Because you're, you're using 591 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,040 them in a group like, and you're being like, like you mentioned 592 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,520 earlier when I said that like very beginning when I was saying 593 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,040 just just distinguishing. We can't help each other find 594 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,000 out, right? But then you said, but we know 595 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,080 each other really well. Well, that's part of it. 596 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,360 Like, like you're not going to be able to show up on a Sunday 597 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,440 and me know you for three days and say, Oh yeah, your spiritual 598 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,640 gift is prophecy, Jake, or you must have the gift of 599 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,160 apostleship. You know, it's like you're not 600 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,560 going to find that stuff out unless you've spent lots of time 601 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,000 with someone and you've seen how God uses and gifts them, you 602 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,920 know, and that way you can clearly point out, yeah, you do 603 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,120 have the gift of teaching or, or discernment even like 604 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:37,200 discernment is, is something that that we talk about it a 605 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,600 lot, like our wives probably have greater discernment than we 606 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,560 do. A lot of times they can, they 607 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,040 can just like a conversation after a conversation, right? 608 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,480 You've had a conversation with someone, both of you were there 609 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,360 and you get a decent read on them. 610 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,440 And then your, your wife says that person is creepy or 611 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,640 something like that. You know, you just sort of like 612 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,600 they, they have a bet sometimes they have a better way. 613 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,520 And I know that that's true in my in my family. 614 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,880 And I'm glad. Oh, oh man, I'm glad. 615 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,560 And if I had just, I need to have the gift of being able to 616 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,640 listen to my wife at times about that stuff. 617 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,440 So, yeah, but that comes with just knowing people, right? 618 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,320 Like, like you don't know that about your wife on the first 619 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,640 date. Yeah, that's helpful. 620 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,680 I think like talents. Talents are used are ways that 621 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,960 you express your gift maybe. Well, and I and I would. 622 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,760 I was that you can get to it. Yeah. 623 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,800 And, and I will add to that that like, I mean, let's just, let's 624 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,960 just say if someone has a natural ability, let's let's say 625 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,640 for like having like a, like an outgoing personality or like 626 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,880 public speaking, let's say, for instance, like now if the Spirit 627 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:45,000 gives you with leadership or wisdom or knowledge or the 628 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,640 ability to preach and teach, it's like, well, your natural 629 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,080 gift is going to tie in very well with that, that gift that 630 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,000 he's given you to lead, right? Well, I mean, now I just think 631 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,480 of like, but that this is a good, good differentiation, like 632 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,720 between like being able to do something well and then being 633 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,320 able to do something well as a Christian. 634 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,400 Like, like, I don't know, I don't, I don't know if this 635 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,680 person's a Christian or not, but like take like Jordan Peterson, 636 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,960 a fantastic communicator, communicates a lot of truth, but 637 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,560 I don't know if I, I can't tell if he's a Christian, but like 638 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,000 probably not. Like I don't know. 639 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,240 I mean, but, but like then you take, if you, if he were to 640 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,520 become a Christian and like to be expounding truth from the 641 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,640 scriptures, from the pulpit, it would be like you would be using 642 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,320 a talent that he gave that he was given and, and as a gift to 643 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,080 the church, right. So that like, that's the thing, 644 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,040 you know, I don't know, maybe I'll get maybe I'll find out I 645 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,600 was wrong. And I hope I am, I hope, I hope 646 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:43,840 he does get safe. You know, I was thinking 647 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,120 another, another one that's famous of Malcolm Gladwell, a 648 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,560 famous podcaster, another Canadian. 649 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,040 He's a fantastic communicator, but he would say probably that 650 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,720 he's not a believer. You know, he grew up in a 651 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:56,840 Christian home, but not a believer. 652 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,800 But these these, these people have extraordinary talent to be 653 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,400 able to convey stories and all these things. 654 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,480 But it doesn't mean it doesn't mean that they're that they're 655 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,360 that that's their spiritual gift. 656 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,240 It is a talent, spiritual gift would be you're using it for the 657 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,480 for the edification of the church. 658 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,440 Yeah. So I don't know, that's good. 659 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,480 Yeah, that is helpful. I, I, I hope it's helpful to see 660 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,760 that distinction. It they may also tie together 661 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,000 when I mentioned this, this story of Simon the Sorcerer, 662 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,360 like I, I have in this mind like so here's a guy who who was 663 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,680 famous. He was very well known for his 664 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,080 public, his public ministry of magic, right? 665 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,280 And here it almost seems like like Peter seems to call out 666 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,000 like this desire in his heart to to continue. 667 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,040 Now in his, you know, it says that he believed. 668 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,920 We don't know if that meant that he was truly converted or not, 669 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,680 but he believed and wanted to be a part of the ministry. 670 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,400 And now it seems like he wants that same fame and that same 671 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,160 glory. But now through the laying on of 672 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,960 hands. And I sort of get this picture 673 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,880 in my mind. I have no idea what happened and 674 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,400 I have no idea if this is true or not. 675 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,600 But maybe God in his sovereignty would have Simon the sorcerer in 676 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,520 a very private area of ministry. If he if he truly became a 677 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,200 Christian, maybe sort of as a as a play on his life in ministry. 678 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,800 Now he was going to serve in some less well known way, but he 679 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,400 was very content to do that because like we think of you, 680 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,080 Jake, you mentioned Paul many, many times over the years where 681 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,800 it's like here he has this, this great ministry, but then after 682 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,680 he Christ calls him, he's like, I'm going to show him how much 683 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,680 he has to suffer. There's like a there's like a 684 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,440 direct correlation to like what you the way you lived before 685 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,280 Christ and a total contradiction to the way you're going to live 686 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,400 after Christ. That's really helpful. 687 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,480 And so maybe God in his wisdom would would make it the opposite 688 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,240 of your talent. You know, maybe he would go. 689 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,040 Well, you were famous for that before, and now it's now you're 690 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,120 not. And if it's real, as it wasn't 691 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,960 Paul's, like he didn't mind the hardship and the pain and the 692 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,720 suffering. He took it as a service for 693 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,080 Christ. Yeah. 694 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,240 Yeah. So another question we had, 695 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,200 we'll shift gears a little bit. Yeah, in your sermon you 696 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:15,400 mentioned you sort of like outed yourself as a a nuanced 697 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,200 cessationist. Cessation is like, like you 698 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,360 think some of the gifts may have ceased or like, for instance, 699 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,920 apostleship. I think like, like, I don't know 700 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,920 where Jake stands on this, but like I, I would think that 701 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,320 apostleship is one that is gone. My definition of apostleship 702 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:39,080 would be someone who was trained, discipled by the Lord 703 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,920 Jesus directly. And so like so. 704 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,120 They were an eyewitness. Eyewitness. 705 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,760 Yeah. Like in the book of Acts when 706 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,320 they had to replace Judas, it was like, OK, it has to be an 707 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,120 eyewitness. It has to be someone who was 708 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,160 with us from the beginning. So like there are very few of 709 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,560 those people, right? Like those were people who were. 710 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,600 So I think that that's so that's my definition of that. 711 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,880 I think some others might define apostleship like, like someone 712 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,880 who wants to be frontline ministries, so like church 713 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,080 planting in unreached places of the world, they might say they 714 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,199 have the gift of apostleship. I think it's like maybe like in 715 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:18,440 the, the theme of Apostolic ministry, like frontline work. 716 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,080 But but I think that that gift has ceased. 717 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,280 I don't, I don't think we have, we don't, I don't think we see 718 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,280 those anymore. So that's like that. 719 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,760 Maybe, I mean, that's for a broader conversation, if anyone 720 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,199 wants to have a conversation with us happy. 721 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,400 But in Eastman, you mentioned specifically you use the gift 722 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,040 that of healing. That was in the text here. 723 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,760 And so we had one question come in about that. 724 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,000 They just, they just asked for you to elaborate on what you 725 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,040 said about the no one having the gift of healing. 726 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,239 I don't know exactly what you said because of the certain time 727 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,520 or the season that we live in. And then they they referenced 728 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,120 James 14 to 16 and they said it sounds like God wants to heal 729 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,160 people all the time. Just wanted to hear your 730 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,280 thoughts about it more. So could you elaborate on that a 731 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,720 little bit? Yeah, well, and so I'm, I'm, I, 732 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:06,480 I've read over the question a number of times and was thinking 733 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,160 through it. And I sometimes, sometimes it's 734 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,840 hard to get at like the root of a question. 735 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,240 Like you're trying to, I analyze words very carefully. 736 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:15,720 And so you're trying like for a living. 737 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:18,200 What are, what are, what are they, what are they trying to 738 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,440 get at? Because I don't, I don't want to 739 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,040 misunderstand the question, right? 740 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,440 I, I don't want to assume things. 741 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,080 I don't want to misunderstand. I think what they're asking is 742 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,840 it seems like it, it seems like when you read this text and when 743 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,920 he seems, when you read James's text, which, yeah, Tony, you can 744 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,160 maybe pull it up and read it for us. 745 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,800 This person is saying that it, it seems like healing is, is a 746 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,880 part, is supposed to be a part of the life of the church always 747 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,040 like that, that God will still heal, that healing hasn't 748 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,680 ceased. And so it needs to be a part of. 749 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,480 Yeah, church ministry or this seems like it's supposed to be 750 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,600 normative in church ministry even today. 751 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,000 Yeah. All right, So I'm actually going 752 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,080 to start at 13 because I think it's helpful for context. 753 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,480 Is anyone among you suffering? He should pray. 754 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,440 Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praises. 755 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,120 Is anyone among you sick? He should call for the elders of 756 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,840 the church, and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil 757 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,840 in the name of the Lord. The prayer of faith will save 758 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,080 the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. 759 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,360 If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 760 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,160 So there's the text. Yeah. 761 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,400 And so I mean, there's, there's a lot there, right? 762 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,240 I was sort of sort of thinking through that text. 763 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:35,800 And I guess I'll start at the beginning. 764 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,480 OK, So cessationism, like you said, is this idea that there 765 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,480 are some gifts that were for a season there. 766 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,400 They're called sign gifts, which is that they were, they were a 767 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,200 sign of the coming of the Messiah. 768 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,560 And so some people believe that those gifts have ceased. 769 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,880 There's there's no longer a need for them because the purpose of 770 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,640 the sign gifts like healing and miracles were to validate Jesus 771 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,160 ministry. And so the, the need for those 772 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,640 gifts has has ceased. And prophecy would be another 773 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,800 one, right? Like, like we would say there 774 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,600 there's prophesying in the sense of like speaking forth God's 775 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,520 word. And then there's prophesying, 776 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,680 which is like foretelling God's word. 777 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,680 And we would say that there, there's a sense in which 778 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,000 there's, there's no, like, there's no longer a need for 779 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,400 prophecy. Like, like we have the full, we 780 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,720 have God's full word. Jesus was the final prophet. 781 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:31,760 He's come and, and we don't need any prophetic word because we 782 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,520 have God's word. It's, it's useful for every 783 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,040 area, right? Timothy. 784 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:42,200 And so with, with cessationism, it's not to say that healing and 785 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,400 miracles have ceased. That's not what it's saying. 786 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,280 And so I, I, I did say that in my sermon. 787 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,280 I, I hope I communicated that faithfully. 788 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:57,080 I do believe God works miracles. I do believe God works healing. 789 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,560 IA 100% believe that I I had a number of stories shared with me 790 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,200 this week and in the past and and I've heard them. 791 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,160 I've witnessed them even in my own life. 792 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,360 And it's like I know God does miracles. 793 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,960 I know God does healing. And I guess maybe I even it to 794 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,880 my own perspective. As I, as I thought about it this 795 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,200 week, I thought maybe I was thinking a little bit too 796 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,160 narrowly when it comes to like this gift of healing. 797 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,320 Because what I was thinking in terms of healing is like, well, 798 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,680 if I look at someone who has the gift of preaching and teaching, 799 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,840 they use that gift all the time, right? 800 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,560 Whenever they have an opportunity, they'll use that 801 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,480 gift. And so when I was thinking of 802 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,160 the gift of healing, I'm thinking like, OK, well, maybe 803 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,480 someone, maybe at that time, someone had the gift of healing 804 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,640 and they could just walk around and heal people at will. 805 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,440 And so maybe I was thinking a little bit too narrowly in the 806 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,720 terms of what healing is. Maybe, maybe there's someone who 807 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:49,840 has healing and, and, and a strong faith and just when they 808 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,440 feel prompted by God, they can pray for a person and they've 809 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,120 seen fruit from that, right? And so I'm open to that. 810 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,920 And, and I guess my point was, if the spirit is the one who 811 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:08,320 gives a gift and someone had the gift of healing, I would think 812 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,840 that we would see that in our church and we would know of it, 813 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,440 right? We would know that that if I'm 814 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,720 going to go pray for someone, I'm bringing this person along 815 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:18,320 because they have the gift of healing. 816 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,200 And if God's going to heal them, this is the person who has that 817 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,360 gift. In the same way that I would go, 818 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,400 well, if I need this sermon preached, I know Jonah and Jake 819 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,640 are excellent preachers. And so I'm going to have them 820 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,840 preach it because I know they have the gift of preaching and 821 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,800 teaching. And so God does work miracles. 822 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,160 I hope that's clear. I am not a guy who lacks faith. 823 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,960 You know, it's interesting to me even in that text of James, it 824 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,000 doesn't say if someone's sick, call the person in the church 825 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:53,200 who has the gift of healing. It says call the elders and the 826 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:59,160 elders will pray and the prayer of faith heals them. 827 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:03,080 Not the person who has the gift of healing, not the person who 828 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,480 has a spiritual gift. It's the prayer of faith. 829 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:09,520 And so I agree that. God does work miracles and 830 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,720 that's why we need to pray because we believe in a 831 00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:16,560 supernatural God who does go beyond normal means. 832 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,440 And so we need to pray and we need to have faith that God can 833 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,520 and does heal. But we also need to acknowledge 834 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,480 that we do live in a fallen world and our faith in God is 835 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,640 not dependent on healing or miracles. 836 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:36,160 It's God is not God just when he heals and maybe you guys want to 837 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,040 add to that. I do want to share a quote, a 838 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,000 reading from from John MacArthur, but maybe OK, I'll do 839 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,200 that right now. This might just be helpful for 840 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,240 for us understanding again, this is just one man's opinion. 841 00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:51,080 That's this is like his his teaching on healing. 842 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:56,360 He says healing was a temporary sign gift used by Christ, the 843 00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:01,200 apostles, the 70, and a few associates of the apostles such 844 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,560 as Philip. This ability was identified as a 845 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,680 gift belonging to the apostles. Although Christians today do not 846 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,680 have the gift of healings, God certainly still hears and 847 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,880 answers the faithful prayers of his children and he references 848 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,400 James 5/13/16 there. Some people feel that healing 849 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,200 should be common and expected in every area, but this is not the 850 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,560 case. Physical healings are very rare. 851 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,440 Throughout the Old Testament record, only a few are recorded. 852 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,960 There was never a time before the coming of Christ when 853 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,880 healings were common. Only in His lifetime and that of 854 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,560 His apostles was there a veritable explosion of healing. 855 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,360 This was due to the unique need to accredit the Messiah and to 856 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,040 authenticate the first miracles of the Gospel. 857 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,400 Jesus and his apostles temporarily banished disease 858 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,320 from Palestine, but that was the most monumental area of 859 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,440 redemptive history and called for such authentication. 860 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,800 To normalize healing would be to normalize the arrival of the 861 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,760 Savior. This gift belong to the sign 862 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,800 gifts for that era only. The gifts of healings were never 863 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,360 used solely for bringing people physical health. 864 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,840 Paul and so I this was an interesting point that I wanted 865 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,320 to bring up too, that that healings are never just for the 866 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,240 sake of healing, right? That's that's not what the 867 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,360 purpose of what the healings were because and he references 868 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,320 Paul, Paul was sick but never healed himself or asked another 869 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,640 human to heal him. His friend Epaphroditus was near 870 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,160 death and Paul did not heal him. God intervened when Timothy was 871 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,240 sick. Paul did not heal him, but told 872 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:46,720 him to take some wine. Paul left Trophimus I'll at 873 00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,920 Myletus. Healings were not the everyday 874 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,840 norm in Paul's ministry but did occur when he entered a new 875 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,000 region, for example, Malta, where the gospel and its 876 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,280 preacher needed authentication. That healing was the first 877 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,440 mention of healing since the lame man was healed in Lystra, 878 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,680 which was Acts 14, in connection with the arrival of Paul and the 879 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,320 gospel there. Prior to that, the nearest 880 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,840 healing was Peter in Acts Chapter 9 and the resurrection 881 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,520 of Tabatha in nine as well so that people would believe the 882 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,560 gospel Peter preached. And so he's making the point 883 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,320 that even in the apostles ministry, like it wasn't like 884 00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:27,960 every 5 seconds someone was being healed. 885 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,520 It's like sometimes you go like 14 chapters and there's no 886 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:32,840 healing. Like it's not. 887 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,160 It was never meant to usher in this season of just constant 888 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,520 miracles and healing. They were meant to authenticate 889 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,960 and validate their ministry as being from Jesus Christ, the Son 890 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:44,440 of God. Yeah. 891 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:45,760 It's. A super good point to think 892 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,280 about that because like it's paradigm shifting, honestly, 893 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,320 because if you think about, if you think about the gospels, 894 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,680 like when Jesus did a miracle, like let's start his first 895 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,160 miracle, right, the wedding at Cana. 896 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,960 Well, he didn't turn water into wine for no reason. 897 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,760 He did it to show those who saw that he did that who he was 898 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,480 right? You can see like their eyes were 899 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,120 opened. Who is who is this man? 900 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,520 Well, this man is God. Then all the other miracles that 901 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,440 follow all the things that he did were done for the the for 902 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,640 the express purpose and intent to demonstrate that he was the 903 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,400 fulfillment like he's he's tell us he's complete. 904 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:27,240 He's telling us that that he has fulfilled all the prophecy and 905 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:30,680 that the Messiah is here. It was exactly what MacArthur 906 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:36,560 saying there to prove to them who he was now and then you say, 907 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,560 well, and then he gets to sort of frustrated with the 908 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,800 Pharisees. And then after after he's done 909 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,360 so many signs and they still want more, He's like, you're 910 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,280 hard headed right. You're you're like, yeah, it so, 911 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,400 yeah, you demand a sign. Well, I'm not giving you another 912 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,240 sign. I've already shown you who I am. 913 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,680 So like I've proved who I am. Then you go to that to Acts 914 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,920 where MacArthur like gives out this all that was for, for 915 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,360 people to believe the gospel, right. 916 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,560 So like I would argue that like if there is a miraculous healing 917 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,600 now, like, like that's not something that that that's just 918 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,640 done on its own. It's done for a purpose, like if 919 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,200 God chooses to heal someone and he does and the people who I've 920 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,120 had like the like testimony from that say the Lord healed me. 921 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,200 They don't say, hey, I went this guy healed me. 922 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,400 They say the Lord healed me, right, I was healed by the Lord. 923 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,280 And so it's for the testimony of demonstrating to others. 924 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,840 Maybe it's your you. Maybe it's a testimony to an 925 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,480 unbelieving Doctor Who is who who God is drawing to himself 926 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,680 and and is like wanting to prove that that he's real. 927 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,760 But it it there's always a reason behind it. 928 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,560 The edification of the church, but also to glorify God. 929 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,600 And so if like, healing happens outside of that, then I don't 930 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,080 know. Yeah, go ahead, Jake. 931 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,920 There's a, there's another element here that comes to my 932 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,560 mind as I'm listening to, to you both talk about this. 933 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,800 And I, I, I would, I would agree the, the idea that God still 934 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,120 does miracles is true. And I think it, I think it's 935 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,440 also very specific. And for me now to just say, OK, 936 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,360 we have somebody in the church who can pray that prayer of 937 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,240 healing and just anybody happens. 938 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:14,320 No, I wouldn't go there. At the same time, I think 939 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,200 there's certain points in time. For instance, I had a missionary 940 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,080 tell me a story one time. It didn't happen to the 941 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,920 missionary himself herself, but to to somebody else. 942 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,680 And they shared the stories were in Latin America and a very. 943 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,160 Poor. Backwards, primitive society. 944 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,800 But they started the church there, and this church, of 945 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,720 course, they had no access to medical care and whatnot. 946 00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:37,880 It was just just very primitive. So they studied the Bible. 947 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,840 They learned the Bible and then one day somebody is sick. 948 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:47,000 And so the elders of that church, they prayed and they, 949 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,800 this missionary was there. They prayed over the sick person 950 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,720 and then they all left. Later on, the missionary found 951 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,920 out the elders had gone back to pray again. 952 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,000 And the mission asked, why did you go back to pray again over 953 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,520 the sick person after I left? I said, because we knew you 954 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,280 didn't believe. They said we knew you didn't 955 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,880 believe, you didn't have the faith. 956 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,280 And so I don't know what the outcome was of that prayer, but 957 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,920 that was a powerful like rebuke almost to this missionary that 958 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,880 this missionary God doesn't do that or basically, we'll pray, 959 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,480 but nothing's going to happen, kind of that thing, you know, 960 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,200 and I'm not saying that I believe that God does miracles 961 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:21,440 all over the place just because somebody has the gift of 962 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,160 healing. At the same time, I agree with 963 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,080 you Joe God does miracles still. Yeah, for sure. 964 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,480 Yeah. And I think again, always going 965 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,520 back to Christ in the in the garden is, is such a wonderful 966 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,640 example because the, the thing that we have to be careful of is 967 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,160 this movement of people who say, like, man, if you just had 968 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,840 enough, yeah, hard enough right then. 969 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,280 And I feel like what a cruel thing to say. 970 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,840 I know someone shared with me on Sunday that they they heard of 971 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,280 that experience that someone went, they would go to a family 972 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:49,600 and say you just didn't have enough faith. 973 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,880 What a cruel thing to say to a family after their loved one 974 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,720 passes away that like, it's your fault they're dead. 975 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,360 And so that's the thing that we're being cautious of to say 976 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,760 it's like, that's not true. That's not biblical because who 977 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,200 had more faith in Jesus? No one. 978 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,800 No one had more faith in Jesus. Jesus was perfect. 979 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,360 And he prayed that if it was possible for the cup to be 980 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,000 removed. But he is seeking God's will 981 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,560 above all. And it was God's plan and it was 982 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,240 the the triune God's plan to save humanity through his death 983 00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:25,440 and resurrection. And so his suffering was used to 984 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,360 bring life to sinners. And so in the same way for us 985 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,640 that you said it's paradigm shifting to think about about 986 00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,640 the way the healings were used, I think that that should shape 987 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,280 our prayers not just for healing, but also for suffering. 988 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,240 How is God using? And we should pray for that. 989 00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,760 If someone gets cancer, if someone gets sick or if someone 990 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,960 is healed, our prayer should always be God. 991 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,880 Use this for your glory in death. 992 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,960 Use this to draw sinners to yourself in healing. 993 00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,440 Use this to draw sinners to yourself to see your power. 994 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,520 But in everything that like God gets the glory, yeah. 995 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:06,440 Absolutely. You remind me of that the story, 996 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,160 I think, I think we talked about this yesterday. 997 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,640 You're about using death as a way to draw people to to the 998 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,400 Lord. And like we were talking about 999 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,120 the difference between weddings and funerals for I preached a 1000 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,400 wedding or I officiated a wedding over the weekend and we 1001 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:20,760 talked about which ones we like better. 1002 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,280 We'd probably say we like funerals better. 1003 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,320 And then you're like, what, why? And then, well, this is the 1004 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,080 story that one of our professors said. 1005 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,160 He said that he he preached a lot of weddings, but he preached 1006 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,960 funerals too. And there was this, this one 1007 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,560 lady who he preached their funeral and, and he said, like a 1008 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,680 decade later, like he would have people come to him and say, I 1009 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,280 got saved at so and so's funeral, like I got, and he 1010 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,440 would say it was more than one. People were like, so that the 1011 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,920 Lord used the death of a St. where he could go and preach the 1012 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,760 gospel and, and, and like faithfully preach the gospel and 1013 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,560 people are listening. So he used that as a way to 1014 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,360 like, to draw someone in to himself and to save them. 1015 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,520 And so like, don't we? We shouldn't overlook the fact 1016 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,560 that God is doing so many things, you know, and they're 1017 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,160 like, if we could get past our own, like, selfish desires and 1018 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,000 understand that, yeah, it's, it's horrible to lose a loved 1019 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,160 one, but the Lord is doing something right. 1020 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,480 He's teaching. He's teaching someone through 1021 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,080 it. He may be drawing someone to 1022 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,400 himself for salvation through it. 1023 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:29,840 Yeah. We don't want to be guilty of 1024 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,960 like, you know, going against the will of the Lord. 1025 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:38,200 So anyway. And well, that's really 1026 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,360 important because to, to pray for something. 1027 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,440 I, I think we need to pray with faith. 1028 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,800 But at the end of the day, I think, I, I don't think it's a 1029 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,200 cop out to say, but your will be done. 1030 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,720 I, I, I think there's people who say that it is right, like, oh, 1031 00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:55,200 that's just a lack of faith. You're, it's sort of your cop 1032 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,880 out to go like, well, if God doesn't answer your prayer, We, 1033 00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,240 we were consumed with God's. No, it's not a cop out. 1034 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,680 That's faithful praying. That's that's praying that 1035 00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,800 acknowledges that. Who am I to get to decide 1036 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,040 anything right? Like I am asking because I have 1037 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,920 faith that God can do it, but I am not ultimately seeking my 1038 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,560 will. But Paul did, he asked three 1039 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,720 times in order to remove this thorn from me. 1040 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,600 And God says my strength is sufficient, right? 1041 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,720 So Paul did not get that prayer answer. 1042 00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:26,520 And of course, Paul had lots of faith. 1043 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,640 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so, but we have to be 1044 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,400 subject to God's. He's our master. 1045 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,640 He's the master. It's just like the kids come to 1046 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,400 you and they ask you for something and they can ask, they 1047 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,000 can, they can ask and sometimes you'll say yes, but maybe other 1048 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,360 times you'll say no. Ultimately the decision's up to 1049 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:43,960 you. And that's that same sovereign 1050 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,480 will that God has that we're subject to his plan and his 1051 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,240 purpose. We don't know what he's doing. 1052 00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:52,080 We don't know how he, his plan is to use something. 1053 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,440 And so we have to be subject to his will. 1054 00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:00,480 But I guess just to maybe clarify, I, I'm open, I'm 1055 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,000 opened. I was going to say this in my 1056 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,760 sermon and maybe I should have said it just to clarify to 1057 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,240 people. I sort of thought of saying, you 1058 00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:09,560 know, if all of a sudden the Holy Spirit gifted someone in 1059 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:14,800 our church and like they healed cancer, broken bones and they, 1060 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,240 they healed people. I am totally open to that. 1061 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,120 Like I, I wouldn't be like, no, that gift is ceased. 1062 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,040 I wouldn't do that. I would be like, praise God, we 1063 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:26,840 have somebody in our church who can heal cancer. 1064 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,520 Anybody who has cancer, go over to that person's house and 1065 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:30,640 they'll pray for you. I'll be healed. 1066 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,960 I would praise God for that. I'm totally open to that. 1067 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,720 I just think, I just tend to think it was, it was for a 1068 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:39,600 season. And I think now God still 1069 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,160 answers those prayers at times, although I think it's not 1070 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:47,560 normative, I think death and and disease and suffering are, are 1071 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,560 usually the ways that God uses us to draw him to himself. 1072 00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,680 And our ultimate healing, our, our prayers for healing are 1073 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:59,080 answered. They are the moment we die and 1074 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,960 we usher and we're ushered into the presence of our Savior and 1075 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,760 we're healed forever more. That's the ultimate healing. 1076 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,960 And I would say even before that in this life, our prayers for 1077 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,760 healing are ultimately answered in our salvation, spiritual 1078 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,760 healing, the spiritual healing, because we're, we once were 1079 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,480 dead, but now we're alive in Christ. 1080 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,160 And so I, I just don't want anybody to think that like, I 1081 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,560 don't believe in healing. I don't believe in, I don't 1082 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,600 believe in faith. I, I think God does do those 1083 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,000 things. I absolutely do. 1084 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,720 And and so I think we should pray, we should have faith, and 1085 00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:33,560 we should ask God and we should believe that he can do it. 1086 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,200 Amen. Any final thoughts on your 1087 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,080 sermon? Oh, Jake. 1088 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,000 Joel, sorry. Before we get to final thoughts, 1089 00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,600 Jake has one more thought. This whole concept of gift, I 1090 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,520 think is so fascinating and it's intriguing. 1091 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,480 It's it's I think a great topic to discuss and I'm all in on it. 1092 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,200 And I think we come with such a wide variety of perspectives and 1093 00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,560 differences, and it's important that we remain unified as a 1094 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,520 church body in this. But there's 11 aspect of this 1095 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,960 whole gifting thing that we won't go into too much, but the 1096 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,960 whole gift of tongues. And we know what's happened to 1097 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,560 the charismatic movement. And somehow it's been this whole 1098 00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,760 thing has been pulled from the past in today's context and just 1099 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,360 hijacked it. And people now have this idea of 1100 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,760 speaking in tongues, which may or may not happen. 1101 00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,160 But Paul talks about this one little short piece I read in the 1102 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,160 book called Dangerous Fire. I believe it is, but I think 1103 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:24,720 it's been MacArthur. Yeah, it's been MacArthur. 1104 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,000 I just read a short little snippet. 1105 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,000 Strange, strange fire. Strange fire. 1106 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,400 Sorry. Yeah, anyway, so this idea that, 1107 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,880 okay, now somebody have the gift of tongues, you can go to a 1108 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,280 foreign country and just start. He doesn't have to take language 1109 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:36,960 training. He just not goes there. 1110 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,520 You know, that's foolishness. And so I'm not saying that God, 1111 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,800 well, God did that the book of act, but it's the only time we 1112 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,000 find it in the Corinthian church too. 1113 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,280 We talked about how they the taking this paganism into into 1114 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:50,680 their midst. And I think we have to be 1115 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,960 careful when even when we talk about gifts in general, that we 1116 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,400 don't start mixing it up with all kinds of other stuff, new 1117 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,040 age stuff and all kinds of experiences that are not real. 1118 00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,240 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's very important. 1119 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,760 Yeah, with tongues, with just like any other gift, right? 1120 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,040 Like, well, I feel like I'm beating the dead horse here. 1121 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:08,680 What would be the purpose for it? 1122 00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,120 To edify the church and to glorify God, not to bring us 1123 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,400 some new revelation, not to. So like, if you're speaking in 1124 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,400 tongues, then I would believe that the purpose for that would 1125 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,920 be to edify, to build up the church and and. 1126 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,320 If it doesn't do that, then. Then it's not a gift of the 1127 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:27,600 Spirit. Yeah. 1128 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:31,560 So it's that's that's an easy one that honestly is an easier 1 1129 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,040 to discern than a lot of the others. 1130 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,840 If it happens and you're there and and no one interprets it, 1131 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,160 that's obviously not an utterance from the Holy Spirit. 1132 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,880 Then again, if it's if it's just random and this doesn't build up 1133 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,480 to edify the church, then you know it's not. 1134 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,480 And I don't think we can conjure them up right. 1135 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,960 Right. And I was, I was, I was clear to 1136 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,960 mention that too. I think that's sort of the point 1137 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,280 that it's like this, this, if it's a spiritual gift, it's not 1138 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,320 something you can just do in your flesh, right? 1139 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,760 It's something that has to be empowered by the Spirit. 1140 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,280 Which would differentiate it from a talent. 1141 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,560 Right, go ahead. But I but I would say even like, 1142 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,480 I mean, maybe you guys have experienced this. 1143 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,480 I know I have. It's like I can preach in the 1144 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,960 flesh, but then it bears no spiritual fruit. 1145 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,360 The Holy Spirit may use it to, to bear spiritual fruit, but 1146 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,480 it's like, but I need to be using my gift in tandem with the 1147 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,800 Spirit. It's it's a spiritually 1148 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,360 empowered gift. And so, yeah, like you said, 1149 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,600 then it would just be a talent if I'm having it in my flesh. 1150 00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:31,160 Yeah, that's good. OK, Now Joe, any final words? 1151 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,920 I I would just encourage people to to pursue it. 1152 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,680 I know again, maybe we've not been super helpful in like 1153 00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,560 resources to look into. I think maybe let's not 1154 00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,640 overcomplicate it. I don't think it needs to be the 1155 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:47,040 Super complicated thing like like ask people, pray about it. 1156 00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:52,040 Look at look at ways that you can sense that you're gifted in 1157 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,000 strengthening and encouraging other people. 1158 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:59,480 So find your gift, find find what area you feel like people 1159 00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,720 after their, after they talk with you, they feel 1160 00:57:01,720 --> 00:57:04,200 strengthened, they feel edified, they feel encouraged. 1161 00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,560 And then look for activities, look for areas of service. 1162 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,960 Again, we have tons of areas of service in the church. 1163 00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,640 We always need Sunday school teachers. 1164 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,520 We always need Sunday school helpers, worship ministry and, 1165 00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,560 and, and that in there, the music ministry. 1166 00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,360 I mean, I don't like to call it the worship ministry. 1167 00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,840 I like all, all, all aspects of our Christian life are 1168 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:24,280 worshiped. And so we call it the music 1169 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,360 ministry. But there's lots of areas to 1170 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,120 serve there. There's the need for ushers, 1171 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:30,520 welcome team, those sorts of things. 1172 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,120 Like there's lots of ways that you can serve your fellow 1173 00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,600 brothers and sisters in Christ. And so look for opportunities 1174 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,680 and you may be getting a text from us. 1175 00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,240 I can say one one way. You won't be able to, like, 1176 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:43,840 discern it. Like you'll be very hard to 1177 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,520 discern your spiritual gift if you're not in the Word. 1178 00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:47,400 Yeah. You need to be in the Word every 1179 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,880 day. The Lord's not going to gift you 1180 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,840 with something if he knows you're not going to use it. 1181 00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,040 Yeah, so. And you have to. 1182 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,200 Function as a part of the body. Function in the body. 1183 00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,800 Next Sunday we'll talk about that like you have to be one 1184 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,440 with the body for it to work. That was an excellent segue, 1185 00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,720 Pastor Jake, to to what like, you know, give us a like a quick 1186 00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:08,880 overview of what you're going to be, you're going to be teaching 1187 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,120 from the same chapter. The last part, well, the 1188 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,160 starting from verse 13 to the end, and one, it's basically 1189 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,040 many members, many gifts, one body. 1190 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,000 Yeah, there's all very key parts. 1191 00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,360 Yeah, foot, lot of big toes. Not a very good foot, is it? 1192 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,680 We're different, serving the same God through the same Spirit 1193 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:27,440 with different gifts. Yeah. 1194 00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,360 And I want to expand on that next Sunday. 1195 00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,000 That's exciting. Looking forward to that. 1196 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,680 Yeah. One final thing, things we like. 1197 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,040 Joe, did you have anything that you like that you'd like to 1198 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,640 share with the church community via the podcast? 1199 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,560 Yes, I do. Compelling community. 1200 00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,880 There we go. I almost forgot it last week. 1201 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,000 I listened to a book, an audio book called Compelling, 1202 00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:55,520 Compelling Community by Mark or sorry, Mark Dever. 1203 00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,080 Mark Dever is one of the editors on it, the other guy. 1204 00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,560 I'll pull it up in a second, but it was an excellent book on how 1205 00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:06,520 the body of Christ is how it is to be a unique body and it's 1206 00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,520 different from anything in the world. 1207 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,520 So it was by Mark Dever and Jamie Dunlop, the compelling 1208 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,280 community. And so one of the the things 1209 00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:16,640 that I appreciated most about the book. 1210 00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,960 I would recommend it to anybody who wants to see what the 1211 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,240 purpose of the church is. But talking about spirit 1212 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:27,480 empowered things, he says a lot of times we gear our church to 1213 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:31,520 to being distinct in the ways that like the world is. 1214 00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,600 So let's say like, oh, if you're a young 20 something, then we'll 1215 00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,280 put you with other young 20 somethings. 1216 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,240 And if you're a single mother, then we'll put you with other 1217 00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,040 single mothers. And if you're 55 years old and 1218 00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,960 in whatever, then we'll put you with other 55 year old people. 1219 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,960 And he says the problem is that's not a spirit empowered 1220 00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,440 gospel community because those distinctions would exist in the 1221 00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,160 world. We see them everywhere. 1222 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,160 The power of the gospel is seen in the fact that you have 1223 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,680 Italians in Mennonites coming together and worshiping Jesus. 1224 01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:06,040 The fact that you would have older generation and younger 1225 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,320 generation coming together and having gospel community. 1226 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,880 And I thought, wow, that's so interesting that like a gospel 1227 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,480 knit community is people coming together in Christ in ways that 1228 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,280 you wouldn't see in the world, right. 1229 01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,960 And so I, that was just one of the things that really stood out 1230 01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,800 to me, but it's, it's an excellent book. 1231 01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,600 You mean you mean to tell me like former Catholics, Baptists 1232 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,640 and Mennonites can all be in the same church and have unity? 1233 01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:30,800 Praise God. Amen. 1234 01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,280 That's really cool. So compelling, the compelling 1235 01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,400 community. I'll put it in the show notes 1236 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,440 and then I have one that I like things that I like. 1237 01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,080 My pastor back in Louisville. Joe and I actually had the same 1238 01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,200 pastor back in Louisville. He put out a new book. 1239 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,520 It's called A Savior is Born from Heaven's Throne to 1240 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:52,520 Bethlehem's Manger, and he goes through the accounts in Matthew 1241 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,200 and Luke around Jesus birth just in time for Christmas. 1242 01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:00,200 It's like a devotional style. It's not necessarily like you 1243 01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,680 would see devotions, like daily devotions, but it's written in a 1244 01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,800 way that that's not super academic. 1245 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,720 It's just a way for the church to be strengthened in learning 1246 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,800 about our Savior's birth. So it's perfect for Christmas. 1247 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:12,400 So we'll put this in the show notes as well. 1248 01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,440 All of his resources have been fantastic. 1249 01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,000 We've been through. We did Victory over the enemy 1250 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:21,800 just recently. As far as a Wednesday night, 1251 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,120 then maybe this will be a Wednesday night study before 1252 01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:24,720 long. Who knows? 1253 01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,080 Maybe not this year. But a saviour is born by William 1254 01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,560 Cook. Yeah. 1255 01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,920 So that that's what I like. Pastor Jake, you didn't have 1256 01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:33,920 anything this week. Not this week. 1257 01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:35,520 You don't like anything. It's fine. 1258 01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,800 Next week you'll come back with something that you like. 1259 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,960 I know you had a busy week. You got married off your son. 1260 01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,480 Yep, he got married and so it's been a very busy week for us, 1261 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:44,480 but other than that it's all good. 1262 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,040 Great, great. Well LMC, we are praying for 1263 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,160 you. Umm, let us know how we can 1264 01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:52,240 serve you and until next time, you guys have a great week.