Welcome to Be on Sunday, an extension of the preaching
ministry here at Leamington. Emci am Jonah Chitty, one of the
pastors here, joined by a pastor, Joe Penner, who preached
a sermon recently, preached a lot of sermons this year, but
you did preach one soon or more recently.
Sorry. Our goal with this podcast is to
provide you with practical applications from last Sunday
sermon. So if you haven't listened to
that, just go back, listen to it.
It's only 31 minutes long. It was a good one because it was
short, and you'll get a lot of our discussion today by having
heard it already. So with that being said, Joe,
tell us about your sermon. Yeah.
Well, I mean there may be some folks will be like Joe preached
a 31 minute sermon, how do we get him to do that more?
Probably so. It was a busy Sunday though, to
put context there, right? It seemed like it was a very
full service, Not because the sermon was long, because we had,
we did Lord's Supper, we had communion.
And so that was always a sweet time.
But then it just felt, yeah, big, full.
But then it was only a 30 minute sermon.
So I was expecting it to see a 40 minute sermon on the podcast
this morning when I looked and it was only 31.
So anyway. Yeah, yeah.
And it was, it was shorter because of that.
I knew we had communion and so that takes up a little bit of
time and so had to account for that.
But anyway, yeah, I preach a sermon.
We've been going through a sermon series through First
Corinthians, a letter that Paul wrote to a church in the city of
Corinth, and I was in chapter 15, verses 35 through 58 where
Paul talks specifically about our resurrection bodies.
So he's already reiterated, He's already iterated and reiterated
that we are going to be raised from the dead, that Christ was
raised from the dead, and we will be raised from the dead.
And then he begins to talk about what our bodies are going to
look like and how that's going to happen and all of that.
So the title of my sermon was the reality of our resurrection
Bodies. And so my points in that section
were the main points. You will receive a new body.
You will receive a superior body and you will receive an
imperishable body. And so in the section, the first
point, you will receive a new body.
Paul there emphasizes that your old body it it has to die and
then it's replaced with a new body.
And I think that wasn't, it's encouraging because I think so
many times in life, we're always just faced with how to preserve
life, right? And we're constantly
preservation, which it's not a bad thing.
It's a good thing. Obviously, we're giving bodies
to steward and to be faithful with so that we can live as long
as we can so that we can serve the Lord.
But to me it's encouraging that it's sort of like you have to
die and you have to bury your body and then but you don't have
to worry about it because it's going to be replaced with a new
body. And then he goes on to talking
about it being a superior body because it will be spiritual and
because it will be like Jesus. And so it's different from our
earthly body, which is fleshly, but it will be spiritual,
spiritual, and therefore it will be superior to your earthly
body. It's glorious and powerful and,
and a spiritual body. And it's like Jesus body, which
that's what we can get into that maybe a little bit later.
But that's the one point that I felt like I wish I could have
gone more into or just did go more into like what, how, what
can we actually learn from Jesus's body that we learn from
Scripture? And therefore, you know, how
much do we know about what our bodies will then be like?
But anyway, we're going to be spiritual like Jesus.
And then my last point was you'll receive an imperishable
body. And so again, sort of this point
that Paul's making, that the perishable has to be put away so
that the imperishable can come because a perishable body, a
body that can die, cannot inherit heaven because heaven is
eternal. And so we need an imperishable
body. And you will be changed through
Jesus. And so it's Jesus who's going to
do that. And the twinkling of an eye,
your body is going to be changed and you will be victorious
through Jesus. You're going to be victorious
over death, over sin, over the power of the law.
Because we fear death because of sin in our lives.
And the reason we fear death because of sin is because we
know that God has a holy, righteous standard that we have
all fallen short of. But through Christ we have we
have the promise that we are forgiven and we have the hope of
new life. We are brought to God through
Christ, our sins are forgiven, and we have the hope of a new
life and a new resurrected body that is imperishable.
It's incredible to think about it is I don't, I don't think
I've well, I know I haven't. Like I didn't spend a lot of
time thinking about our resurrection like in my whole
life. More like, I mean, obviously we
thought about it some, but like when we're studying through
these two chapters or chapter 15 specifically, but he talked
about it earlier in the in the in the letter too.
But thinking about like that that we physically will be
resurrected as well. It's not something that I've
spent like a burned a ton of calories thinking right, Like,
OK, honestly, I don't maybe it goes back to what we talked
about last week. It's sort of weird to think
about, like, I don't know, I don't know if you think it is or
not, but like it's sort of weird to think about getting a new
body, getting a body like, Jesus, that's that's also kind
of anyway, I'm being honest with you guys.
Maybe I shouldn't be so honest with you guys.
But yeah, I've never really given it much thought.
And like I really appreciated you used Paul's language talking
about like this sowing the idea of sowing seeds that and have
you ever seen a plant like start and then the shell comes out of
the top? And then just like it's like
that picture started forming in my mind, like when we would
plant little things for the garden or whatever, getting
seeds started inside and then you move them out into the
garden and you always see that you always see part of the part
of the seed come up out of the ground, but it's just the rest
of the thing looks completely different.
So like what is that implication like?
Like is, is our body going to look completely different?
Am IA fool for even thinking about it right?
You fool. So I don't know, I just I
thought it was really good in the sermon.
It got me. I did get on a rabbit trail in
my mind during the sermon slightly thinking about the seed
and thinking about all those like those like speed up videos
that you see online of a, of a flower growing from seed and
then whatever. But I thought it was really,
really good. Well, it's incredible.
I, I did, I, I did do research. I didn't really talk much about
it in the sermon, but I was starting to watching some of
those videos too. And it's amazing to think that
like from that seed, but even like you said, just looking at a
garden. If you look at a like a a corn
stalk, yeah, that starts from a corn kernel that you eat.
Right from, from a tiny seed like I'm, I'm even thinking of
these tomato plants and cucumber plants that we planted this last
year. And what starts out as a seed
turns into like this massive plant that you have to support
along something. Otherwise, it's like it can't
even hold itself up, you know, and it's this massive plant that
we were, you know, pulling tomatoes off like into into
November. You're like pulling tomatoes off
this thing. But it's incredible to think
that that comes from a tiny little seed.
Yeah, the size. Well, I mean, we could talk
about plants forever, but like that, you got me thinking.
Cucumbers are one the vine. You have to support that and you
have to hold up tomato plants. But like an oak tree where like
live oaks where I'm from, they're huge.
These things are like, you know, you can't put six people's arms
together and go around the trunk of them and they start with like
an acorn the size smaller than 1/4, right?
You know, it's like that's, that's pretty incredible.
But to think about that, like, I don't know what our bodies will
be like. Well, and then maybe let's just
dive right into that because I feel like I don't think Paul is
using the C that that that that he's not trying to stretch that
analogy all the way to say that our bodies will be completely
different. I don't think because when we
look at Jesus's body we see that he he, like he, showed the scars
on his hands to Thomas and to the disciples.
Yeah, he still looked human. And so I think he was
recognizable. And so again, I did wrestle with
this. I I wish I had gone more into
it, but I think there were times where the disciples didn't
recognize him. But I don't think that's to mean
that he looked so different that they couldn't recognize him.
I think his identity was concealed.
He supernaturally concealed himself.
Right. And so I think once they
understood it was him, like he, he, he was recognizable.
And so I think I don't think Paul is using that to say you're
going to look so vastly different.
You're going to look nothing like your old self.
I think that's sort of the point that it's like our bodies will
be raised and turned into imperishable bodies.
And so I think I guess it's sort of like to, to make this really
hit home with myself. It's like I, I may, I think I'll
be still missing my finger. This sort of came up and like.
You think so? I I don't know.
Oh, because of the scars. Because of the scars on Jesus
hands right like and so. But again, that raises a bigger
question. It's like if someone has lost an
arm or people who've been born with like.
Yeah, I don't know about that. I don't know.
I think that maybe the scars were used because these scars
were used as a proof for Thomas. See the scars on my hand put put
your finger in my side where you know, like I think that they
were maybe that I don't know. That's hard to that's hard to
know. It is.
But it's also like amazing to think about.
Maybe you'll get your finger back.
You don't know. I kind of hope so, but I mean,
who am I going to complain? If I'm in heaven, I'll be like,
yeah, this place is great. Except for.
Yeah, I don't know that's, that's interesting.
I think I talking about it like listening to you talk about it.
Like, yeah, we're not going to be transformed from like from
like a human to some form of weird, like, I don't know, some
creature that's different completely.
But I think like the, the whole like language about something
having to die is like, and that's when our like indwelling
sin will be completely killed, right?
Like that it goes and it's gone. This indwelling sin, the sin
problems taken care of fully. And then when you're raised in
resurrection life, you're going to be raised like Jesus, which
means indwelling sin is gone. Like this idea this, this, this,
this effect of the fall has now been removed.
And maybe that's the change. Maybe that's what Paul is
getting at is like this, the effects of the fall are now
removed and you can enjoy and glorify Christ the way you were
intended to, right? Maybe that's what it is, I don't
know. Well, yeah, and I, I definitely
think so. I definitely think that's a part
of it. I think that's the beginning in
42, that whole section where he's talking about it's what is
sown perishable, right? Is raised imperishable, you
know, and So what is So it's sown in dishonor, it's raised in
power, it's sown a natural body, it's raised a spiritual body.
And so all of these negative downsides of our earthly bodies
and, and I, I don't think that's to talk negatively of God's
design in any way at all. It's just to show the
limitations of what our earth, the way our earthly bodies were
created, but then to show the superior nature of this, the
spiritual bodies that we will receive, they're just going to
be so much better than our earthly bodies.
Yeah, the it's interesting you were reading the ESV there.
The the CSB says like on 42 it says.
So it is with the resurrection of the dead, sown in corruption,
raised in incorruption, that's a slight change.
Sown in dishonor, raised in glory, which is another small
change and then sown in weakness, raised in power.
I just think that it's it's such a cool picture.
I think what you made that point just now.
It's not like it's not like the the way God made us is some
somehow inferior like or something wrong with us.
Now it's that there is something that's better.
But I do think those are effects of the fall, right?
Like I think Adam and Eve, I don't think they were sown in
corruption, right. So like at some point they were
corrupted by an outside force sin.
And then since then though, like he's he brings in Adam.
Since then, everyone else has been born into sin.
So like, I mean, you can get in so many different theological
things right here. Even talking about the first
Adam, the second Adam being Jesus.
It's really interesting to think through.
Yeah, it is. Well, and when we say this
often, right, I mean, it doesn't take, it doesn't take a rocket
scientist to see the nature of sin, right?
We just have to look at a child and instinctively they just sin
and they lie and they're dishonest and they and what?
Does that do to us it pulls sin out of us too when we're dealing
with that right. So like Oh yeah, I'm just like
thinking back through things last night at home.
It's like I had to repent this morning for from that, though,
it's like a 2 year old can bring out the worst in me because
they're sin in him, you know, out of love him, but that that
does happen. So man.
So that kind of was a side note, but it's.
You're right, though, it's that sin is just it, it's, it's in
US. And because of those effects of
the fall, we're, we're born with a sin nature and you know, we
need to be radically changed. And it's, this is just such a
wonderful promise, though, like, like you said, to, to not have
to wrestle with indwelling sin anymore.
Like that is such an amazing picture.
I was just talking with somebody recently and talking about this
idea that even when we go through hardships, when we go
through struggles, when we go through trials, why wouldn't you
run to Christ? I don't know.
But for some reason it's natural for us to not run to Christ in
our flesh. We sort of instinctively don't
read our Bibles, don't pray, don't go to the person who can
help us and lead us and guide us.
And that's sort of a natural fleshly instinct.
We actually need the spirit to help us to know like, no, I, I
need to go to Christ. I need to go to the word.
And to think that we'll be living in a day and age when
we'll be perfect and we won't have to wrestle with that
anymore. It's like we'll just like
instinctively run to Christ and just experience the full joy of
that relationship is just it's incredible.
We can't wait. That's why that's why you hear
that. I always like heard people say
come Lord Jesus, right? Like, oh, just come on, Lord
Jesus, come back, you know, like just come back.
Let's, let's get it done with. But I always see when I used to
hear that people say I'm like, why life is good.
But now like, like I can sort of the, the older you get, I think
the more you identify with that. It's like, yeah, life is good,
but there's something coming that's so much better, right?
And so like, like I hate the fact that I don't run towards
Christ, that I that I actually run away from Christ in my
flesh. And it's like when you start to
hate that so much, it's like that prayer, come Lord Jesus,
the Maranatha prayer. I think it is at the end of
Revelation, it becomes so much more real.
Yeah, yeah, it's good. So talk to me about Super Mario
Brothers. Super Mario Brothers yeah I I
use that illustration in my second point about his superior
body and just using a video game that.
I mean, most people have played at some point in their life and
to think that you know, when you when you get this star as
you're, you know, the. Star is what you wanted.
Getting through all 8 worlds to save Princess Peach.
You get the star and then you can just run as fast as you can.
You don't have to be careful. You need to run through all your
enemies because nothing can touch you.
You know you have this imperishable body and for that
brief moment of time, whatever it is, 1520 seconds, it's like
you're invincible. Nothing can stop you.
I wish it went longer than 15 seconds.
Don't. You real in heaven.
It will and that was and that was my point.
And it's like at some point it runs out, but we don't have to
worry about, you know, our our super, not our superior bodies
ever running out. They're, they're going to be,
we're going to be in eternity with Christ forever and we'll
never have to worry about it not being a superior body or it's
going to run out or anything like that.
Yeah, or yeah, or I even have to worry about being attacked.
That's the that's the other thing too.
It's like you, you'll have a like a imperial body, but it
won't even matter because there's not going to be any
like, problems there that you have to run into.
So that's something to think about too.
But yeah, I thought it was a good illustration that may be
connected with it, Didn't it did connect with me?
I was like, where's he going to go with Mario Brothers?
Mario. I'm like OK.
Game over, restart. Well, that could work, too.
It could work. Oh, man.
Or you may have gotten eaten the mushroom and now your body's
bigger. It's changed.
And you could go so many different ways, but it always
breaks down. So yeah.
Yeah. So what else that came out that
you that you wanted to hit on? Yeah, well, again, I guess just
thinking about like Jesus's body in particular, I felt like, you
know what, what? What can we learn from Jesus
body? What Like what I don't know that
we could build a theology on. I don't know, I guess that's an
area. Maybe you can share your opinion
too. But I guess I just wonder like
how much do we learn from Jesus body, right?
Like in his resurrected state, he could sort of teleport, like,
he could just appear different places, you know, like the
disciples are meeting in a room and it's like all of a sudden
Jesus is there and he just appears and they think they're
seeing a ghost. And he's like, I'm not a ghost.
And then he eats something and they touch his hands, they touch
him, they feel him like. So he is a physical being.
I mean, he has a body. And what does that teach us?
Something about what we will be like, you know, will we be able
to like teleport places or you know, I hopefully we can still
eat. That would bring me a lot, a lot
of drink. I mean, there's a table in
heaven. So I'm hoping that we're still
going to get to eat and not have to worry about calories.
Lots of smoked pork, Smoked brisket?
Yeah. Smoked sausage, Smoked bacon,
Right. Smoked chicken, Smoked ribs.
Sorry. It reminds me of I, I remember
hearing a sermon years ago where someone was talking about all
these sacrifices that the old, the Israelites had to do.
And it, when you read it, it seems super gory and it makes
you sort of uncomfortable and, and weird.
And, and I just remember a pastor saying, you know, like
you think about them cutting up all these animals and then
throwing it on a fire. It's like God just loves the
smell of a good BBQ because it says, it says the aroma rose up
to the Lord and he, and he's sort of like accepted the
offering, right? He's like Lord just loves the
smell of a good BBQ. He likes a cookout.
Let's just be honest. Oh, yeah.
So I don't know. I haven't, like I said before, I
haven't thought about this idea of our resurrected bodies too
much. Maybe because I read verse 35
and I was just like, or maybe 636, you know, what kind of body
will they have when when they come and you fool.
And so I was like, if it's foolish to think about it, like,
why think about it too much? But I, you made a good point
when you said that you read that verse and then you said, you
know, I thought like it's kind of weird that Paul would say
foolish people call them fools and then answer the question,
Right, Right. So, But I, I, I really think
like I was on a second reading, third reading, you start to
think about what's he talking about?
He's talking about spiritual stuff, not necessarily physical
bodies. I think the point is we will
have physical bodies. They will be similar to what we
have now, but perfected. I don't know if perfect is the
right word. Complete, complete meaning we
don't have that sin problem anymore.
And then but I think more more so it's like the this this stain
of sin is removed. Maybe that's where I'm I don't
know That's that's just where I land on it.
Yeah, on being the point, so. Yeah, well, that's good.
And I to sort of the the point about like the foolish person.
Yeah, it it it really is interesting that you know, he he
seems to be. I mean, again, you, you never
know know 100% for sure, but it seems to be calling out those
people who. The scoffers, right?
The scoffers, yeah, it's like they're, they're interested in
discrediting, interested in discrediting Christianity.
And it sort of reminded me of you have Zechariah and Mary and
the difference in the way that those two, like it's interesting
because Zechariah gets sort of a light rebuke from the Lord that
he can't speak when, when he's given the promise of you're
going to receive a son and he's sort of like, well, how's this
going to happen? And then, oh, you can't speak
now. Would that be a light rebuke?
I don't why. You say light rebuke, but do you
think about? It I just think it could be
worse, that's all I mean. Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, it could be death, you know, instant death, right?
But no, I get you. Go ahead.
Sorry, but then Mary, it's kind of like, well, how is this going
to be? And it's like the same question,
but she she just gets the question answered.
And I think there must have been a difference in the heart
attitude of the way those questions are answered, right?
Like maybe Zechariah is like, well, that doesn't seem possible
to me. How on earth could that happen?
And I think maybe that's sort of what's going on here.
You have some people who are asking the question like, well,
how is that even possible? Like, how would that work?
What kind of bodies would we have then?
And they're sort of the scoffers.
But then you have the people who are like, well, how could that
work? Like, I wonder what, like what
you're just asking, right? Like, what's it going to be
like? I, I don't, I think that's a
question from faith, not a question from unbelief.
And I think maybe that's the difference.
I don't even think Paul knows, like I really don't think he
knows an answer because he's like in verse 52, he's like or
sorry, 5051, he says, listen, I'm telling you a mystery.
Right. He's like we will not all fall
asleep, but we will all be changed, meaning we won't all
die. There's going to be some people
who are alive. But like he's like, I think he
understands like, like it is mysterious.
Like there is something that I can't answer.
Like, you know, any time he talks about a mystery, he's
always talking about always he's talking about the gospel.
Like when he when he started uncovering mysteries, he talking
about Latin like Ephesians and all these different books and
letters that he writes. But here I think, I mean, he is
about to tell you a truth. It is a mystery, but there is
some truth here that you need to get.
You will have a physical body. It will be perfect spiritually
because I mean, down in 54 he coming, he says when the
corruptible body is clothed with incorruptibility, that's
something to think about too. Isn't that great?
And in a way we're already there.
I think that's something that that we need to remember too.
Like there is a position that we have in Christ that that we are
clothed with his righteousness, right?
And that keeps coming back to the same thing, right?
And I think that's what Paul's going to to get out as he
finishes the letter. You already are in this way, in
like some, some way. You're positionally here, maybe
not physically yet, but you're positionally here already.
So live like it. You know, that's the that's the
exhortation to them is just like 1613.
He says be alert, stand firm, be courageous, be strong, do
everything in love. So like live like you are in
Christ already, which you are. And so I think that's this is
really good so. Yeah, and that's that's I had
like this, this snapshot on the screen of like a point like
that. If you want to look like Jesus
in heaven, then you need then you must look like Jesus on
earth. And it's just, it is exactly
that idea. It's like this here is where you
are positionally, which I think that's really hard for us to
understand because we don't see ourselves as blameless.
Here are words that the Bible uses about us, blameless,
spotless, righteous, holy, a priesthood.
You know, we we think of those words and we're like, I'm not
that. Those are all future tense
things, things that I'm going to be in the future.
But the testimony of Scripture is you are those things
positionally in Christ, through your faith in Christ, you are
already those things. And so now, I mean, here's
something we say often as well. Now we live from that place of
our position in Christ. You know, we don't try to act
those ways to be saved or to get righteous or to earn God's
favor. No, because of our faith in
Christ, we are those things. And so we just naturally live
that way and strive to be holy and strive to be righteous
because of who we are in Christ. That's so good.
And I, I honestly, I really believe that's what Paul's
getting at. He's he's hammering home this
thing he's about to, it's a crescendo moment, right?
But you got to preach the crescendo over chapter 15.
Like the big, like this is what it's all about.
And he's like just so just live like he's there for be
steadfast, be immovable, always excelling in the Lord's work.
That's so good because you know that your labor in the Lord is
not in vain. Like, So what is all this for?
It's so that you can live a steadfast life being immovable
and and like giving this gospel over and over and over again
because you know it's true. Yeah, well, and it and it is
such a strong way to end given everything that he said.
Here's where maybe you get so close to a certain text that you
miss like the bigger part of the whole.
But like, look at some of the things that he said prior to
this. If there is no resurrection,
right, then our faith is in vain, right?
And everything that we do is in vain.
But his whole point is like, since these things are true,
it's not in vain. It's not.
And so be steadfast, like, don't let anybody tell you these
things are not true. Believe them and work hard
because these things are true and you have a resurrection hope
with a new body. And so like, work hard.
That's really good. Earlier, Joe, you brought up
Zechariah and Mary, and then Zechariah came up on Saturday
night. I don't know, listeners, if you
weren't there, many of you probably were.
But And you witnessed this horrible, horrible moment where
your pastor couldn't remember that shepherds were part of the
Nativity. Yeah, Zechariah, I thought, I
thought it was a good answer. You need you needed to give more
details, maybe to people who weren't there.
What was the question? The question was like.
So we were playing a game. Called Friendly Feud, but it's
based on the game family Feud, yeah.
And Joe's team had gotten, they had gotten the ability to answer
and they were going around the, the, the, the players and they
were given and it was the last. Answer Yeah, so it was these
questions were like you're given a question, you know what what
are. I think it was something to the
effect of what are what are Bible characters associated with
the. With the with Christmas.
With Christmas. Not an activity, but Christmas.
And so you had to think of characters and then so you have
a team of five and then each person gets to give an answer
and if you get 3 wrong, then the other team the number.
One was Mary. Was Jesus even on there?
I don't even. Know.
I think so. I think, yeah.
Maybe it was Jesus and then Mary were the top 2 answers.
Yeah. And it's it's funny, like you're
you're I was fifth. And so people are guessing and
you're like, OK, well, you're thinking of some of the obvious
ones, right? Like, well, Mary, Jesus, Joseph.
So people before me are gonna guess those because as a team,
you can't collaborate. And so I'm thinking, well, who
are some lesser known characters of the story in my mind
immediately went to Zechariah, not thinking like duh, there's
more obvious ones than that. Zechariah is sort of like a deep
answer, though. It's like, all right, you're
going deep, deep cuts here. 'Cause it's sort of like he's at
the beginning of Luke's narrative and then you don't
really hear much more about him after.
That and so my whole table was saying shepherds, shepherds,
shepherds. Jessica told me our our table
was too shepherds. And.
And I was just, I was blanking. And it was the third X too, so
he had to pass it off. And the other team stole the and
my stupid guess was *. But your guess came out well.
You were already thinking about Mouse whenever you said that,
and then your sermon was about the Mario star.
I was thinking maybe he's thinking about his sermon
yesterday. No, it wasn't, but it's, it's so
funny. I, I was telling people I'm not
good in those moments anyway. I sort of like, I'm just gonna
play this game and I'm just gonna be the butt of everybody's
jokes, 'cause I'm horrible at this sort of stuff.
But it is funny. You get into this mindset and I,
I feel like when you're put in the spot and there's, you know,
100 people in the audience. 130 people out.
There 100 people sitting there watching you.
I feel like if you don't get an answer in your mind in the first
few seconds, your mind stops thinking about answers.
That's true. And it starts thinking about how
dumb you look and how dumb you feel and like everybody thinks
I'm a moron and like, and then your brain doesn't have capacity
to think about an answer and so you just blank.
Like even if only one person thought those things, then that
was me, you know? I accepted it.
I it it, it. Yeah.
It humbles. It humbles you, which is good.
It was funny. It was.
That was a funny time, so.
But yeah, I I had promised someone that I would give you a
grief about your answers in a public way.
People were doing that too. I appreciate it.
I appreciate that people feel like they can come up and make
fun of me. I didn't feel it was appropriate
yesterday during the service or welcoming, so I waited till
today. This is the appropriate moment
for it. So that's funny.
Yeah. So what's your, your final word
on this text? Do you have one?
Are you done talking about it yet?
Yeah, I guess. I guess another thing that I
feel like I wish I had maybe drawn in I well, it's sort of
this tension that you get when you're preaching.
I, I know one of the encouragements that I got from
some of my preaching professors was when you're preaching it in
a certain book, don't always feel the need to like go out of
that book, like let let him share his thought.
Because when this letter got sent to Corinth, they didn't go
oh. Well, how did cross referencing
every other author and all the different things that we often.
Do they're just reading the letter for what it is.
And so sometimes you just want to let the author stand from his
letter based on what he's saying in the context.
And so I didn't, I was trying not to go out too much, but I
guess something that did cross my mind is Paul's letter to the
Thessalonians and specific his encouragement to them.
Their question about, well, what about people who've died?
What hope do they have? Like Christ hasn't returned yet
and they're dead. So they missed it.
That's sort of the implication that you get there where they're
worried about these people and did they miss Christ's second
coming? And Paul's like, no, because the
dead are going to be raised on that.
I'd say he's sort of the same idea that he says here, the
trumpets going to sound, they're going to be raised and in the
blink of an eye, we're all going to be transformed and we're
going to live together with Christ.
And so I guess just an encouragement to people like,
and we all know people and we've all lost loved ones probably, or
know people that have or maybe people close to us or whatever.
And what hope that gives us that, you know, right now their
souls are in heaven, but one day their bodies are going to be
resurrected and all of our bodies are going to be
transformed and we're going to be together with the Lord.
Like what a wonderful encouragement.
It is so good. What was your?
This may be putting you too much on the spot without all your
notes, Andy, but your I noticed on Facebook someone else shared
that your Charles Spurgeon quote was very like they they really
appreciated it. So can you?
Do you have it, Andy? Yeah, I can grab it here.
But I thought, like, you know, Prince of Preachers, you're,
you're bringing out Charlie Spurgeon, the great Baptist
preacher from England. If I ever have another dog, I'm
going to name it Charlie and after Charles Spurgeon.
So I thought it was a really good quote.
If you had it, it'd be good to share I think.
Yeah, I am just getting toward it.
Maybe in? Here, maybe I put you on too
much of the spot. There.
No. Here we go.
So he said, I will not fear thee, death.
Why should I? Thou lookest like a dragon, but
thy sting is gone. Thy teeth are broken.
O old lion, wherefore should I fear thee?
I know thou art no more able to destroy me, but thou art sent as
a messenger to conduct me to the Golden Gate, wherein I shall
enter and see my Savior's unveiled face forever.
And so it's just this idea that like death is not an, is no
longer an enemy. It's actually what ushers us.
Into That's a crazy picture. It's like you're looking forward
to it. And that way, if you're a
believer, you have hope. Yeah.
If you're not a believer, we have hope to give you, right?
So I think that's something for us all to remember.
Yeah. Spurgeon saying that you look
like a dragon. You look like I should be
terrified of you. But you don't have any teeth,
right? You have no sting.
You have no, no, no issues. In fact, I'm going to look at
you with joy because I know that you're going to be the the one
that ushers me into the presence of God.
Oh, man. Yeah.
So good. It is so encouraging, and it's
like we don't have to fear it anymore.
And it sort of reminds me of a quote that I saw this week from
CS Lewis, sort of in the same idea, but he says you don't have
a soul. Yeah, you are a soul.
You have a body. Yeah.
I was like, wow, even that's really interesting, right?
This idea that the whole purpose of us existing is to go into
heaven. It's like we have a soul, we
have an eternal existence, and your your body sort of this ties
in with Paul's whole point that it's like you have an earthly
body and you will receive a spiritual body, but it's like
your soul exists eternally. That's a paradigm shift to to
think about. Yeah.
Because we're so connected to the physical world, right?
We are our bodies in in our minds.
It's like, no, we have a body. Yeah.
That is something to think about that will shift like your whole,
like perspective on life. Absolutely, if you can, if you
can think about that. Well, and that ties into like
the problem that our world is facing right now with our
identity crisis, right? This whole like what gender am
I? And, and, and we identify with
things that that we shouldn't be identifying with when we, when
we focus too much on the earthly and the, and the natural and the
things in this world. But like you said, that we
should be focusing on our unity with Christ.
But this fact that like I identify with who I am in Christ
and who I've been created to be in this soul that will live
eternally rather than focusing on the things of this world.
So yeah, you're right. It is a paradigm shift.
Absolutely. Oh, Clive Staples.
Clive Staples, Lewis. Is that his name?
Yeah, I didn't know that. Great.
You know, name your other dog Clive.
That's a good name, Clive. That's a very British name.
Clive Staples Lewis. That's why he went by CS.
Yeah, I would too. Oh man, yeah, no, it's super
like that's convicting to think about.
But I think the the negative side of that quote might be that
you could potentially want to like, I don't know, say, well,
if I'm if I'm just a soul and then you let your body go and
you don't care about taking care of your body, things like that.
No, we have to be good stewards of the body that that houses our
soul. That's so it's a paradigm shift
to think about. Did you say that in your sermon
or would you tell me that last week?
You told me that quote last week because it was super fresh when
we were when we were talking about your sermon before you
preached it. So yeah, really, really good.
CS Lewis is on your brain. Why?
I just started reading. Things you like, the things you
like segment, we're moving into that.
So Joe started reading. I started reading Mere
Christianity by CS Lewis. You should do your confession.
Yeah, I have. This is the first book I've ever
read from CS Lewis. And so, yeah, as embarrassing as
that is. I don't think it's embarrassing.
It's fine. It's fine.
I became a reader reader later in life.
Yeah, OK. But you were in seminary, you're
probably 1 of like one of like the you were the 1% or maybe
like the half zero. 0.001% of people.
Who never read CS Lewis, but being from like a Baptist
seminary, like a lot of people hadn't really read CS Lewis.
Let's be honest, there's a lot of people who haven't read CS
Lewis. They've read quotes by CS Lewis,
so because he's not, he's not easy to read, so a lot of people
pick him up and put him down. Yeah, but it's an it's a this,
this book is an excellent, it's an excellent book.
I've just started reading it, so I'm a few chapters in, but it's
sort of from it's, it's a, an intro to Christianity, but he's
not really like, I guess I've not gotten to the point where
he's really getting to Christianity yet.
So he's not trying to defend, he's not trying to talk about
different ideas within Christianity.
He's kind of starting from because he was an atheist and
became a Christian. And so he's starting from like a
basic idea about starting to think about spirituality and
starting to think about, you know, like the first chapter is
like, well, why is there sort of any morality in the world at
all? Right.
And so when someone when someone says, oh, that's not fair or you
lied to me, the idea is the implication is that there is
some standard of saying that lying is bad, right?
And if you say that lying is bad, who where does that come
from? Who who says that lying is bad?
And why is lying worse than telling the truth?
Or, you know, where does so where does that come from?
And so he's just starting from like a natural perspective of
why is there morality in the world and where does that come
from? And so I think his his goal in
the book, I think is to reach people who are wrestling with
whether they believe anything at all, right, if they're wrestling
through atheism or Christianity. And so it's a really interesting
book. And I think, you know, from my
perspective to think of ways that you can defend Christianity
to maybe someone who isn't open to Christianity or I feel like
it'd probably be a good read for people.
And it so far, I feel like it hasn't been.
It hasn't been. It's not so.
Academic, like I think originally it was, it was aired
on the radio. It was a series of radio
broadcasts where he was encouraging people in the faith
and, and trying to explain to maybe some people who didn't
understand what religion is and where it comes from and where
Christianity came from and, and what it believes and things like
that. That's really good.
So it's a good book. Yeah.
I feel like it'd be helpful for people, anybody who wants to
know and to be able to defend, to defend Christianity.
You don't look him up by Clive Staples, Look up CS Lewis.
Yeah, it's good. Yeah, we'll put that in the show
notes. I mean, that's a very like
classic work by him. Probably his most famous, but
well, maybe the maybe the most famous is the line, the Witch in
the Wardrobe series for kids. But also very, very good.
Yeah. If you can get that on Audible
sometime, like the audio audio version, it's really good.
Captain Kirk. No, no.
One of the Star Trek captains reads one of them.
Oh, Picard, the bald guy, I can't remember his name, but he
reads one of them like at the end, like one of the last books.
OK, anyway, it's got a just a good British voice, right, to
listen to that story. And so, yeah.
So that's awesome. Anything you like?
Yeah, I like a lot of things. I like Crocs.
I don't like the way they look, but I like the way they feel.
Crocs are ugly shoes, but they're comfortable.
That's not what I like. I've recently sort of thinking
about it's, it's December, thinking about January coming,
thinking about productivity and planning my day and trying to
organize my life. Everybody, not everybody, but a
lot of people start thinking about it now or maybe they start
thinking about it in January, which I think is the wrong time
to think about it. You should probably think about
it like November setting up systems, yeah, in your in your
life so that you can organize things.
But I'm reading a book called a Rereading 1 called Deep Work by
Cal Newport. We had to read it in one of our
classes. I was actually preaching class.
He made us read it in our, in our preaching practicum class.
And like, OK, so like if you're going to be a preacher, you need
to learn how to read. Like that's essentially what it
is. You need to become a better
reader. You need to be able to like do
like focused work and not just like, because honestly, we live
in like the most distracted world, like in existence.
I think like there was distractions prior to the
invention of the Internet, but they're so much more prevalent
now. And so like living like in a
distracted world and having, how do you figure out deep work?
How do you? And so it's just a really good
book. It helps you like put things in
categories and compartmentalize things.
OK, this is my time for deep work on this.
And like making sure you plan things out.
So I'm starting that again to hope to build a system about
that. So I know you've thought about
productivity quite a bit. We've because I know we've
talked about it so much. Like there's different tools and
resources. But then like, here's my thing,
Joe, like all the tools and resources that you can find on
the Internet, use the Internet. Yeah.
So like where do you go? I don't know so.
It is challenging. Should I use a journal?
Should I use like a handwritten journal?
Should I use a digital planner? Is it OK that I use a Google
Calendar? Or should I should I use like?
I don't know. All those things are the
questions I'm wrestling with, right?
Now, well, and they are hard questions because often times
they lead you, they lead you to being on your phone, which can
lead to distraction, which is sort of like the downside of
them, right? And so, yeah, I don't, I don't
know the answer to your question.
I think everybody has to to figure figure out a way to do
that on their own. What a cop out answer.
What a cop on it. That's what you get with me.
No, that's not true. You always get good advice from
Joe. I try, but yeah, I, I feel like
one of the things that I, that I do, you know, like let's say
specifically in a week where I'm doing sermon prep, you know, you
know, this is my, my phone is on do not disturb from, you know,
6:00 AM to 12:00 PM. 24 hours. A day.
Not not 7 days. No, that's not true.
So from from from six till noon, my phone is on do not disturb.
And so sometimes I feel bad about that because you know, you
know, you can like pull up and you can like text someone.
You're about to text someone and it says deliver to show as do
not disturb on. And I feel like that's very
blunt, you know, Do not disturb. No, I think it's OK.
It is. I, I, I know people understand
that, but I mean, you can still send the text.
You just have to know that for me, I'm going to get to it when
I'm going to get to it. And if and if it's important,
you just need to call. Hit that Notify anyway button.
Don't do that. I'm still going to ignore it.
But for me, like that's, that's my opportunity to, to do deep
work. Like my mind is sharpest in the
morning. And so I just know I have to
dedicate that the that first part of the morning, like my
best part of my day to deep work and focusing on the sermon.
Because if you're doing any sort of focused work, you can't get
distracted. And I would say this applies to
anybody in any field, right? Like if you're a Carpenter or a,
a bricklayer or whatever, whatever work you're doing, if
you're constantly getting distracted, like you take a
measurement and then someone comes and asks you a question.
And so now you spend 5-10 minutes having a conversation
with them. Now you go back, you're like,
what was I doing again? Oh, yeah, I got to measure this
wall again. And so you got to go and measure
it again. And you forget what you were
doing. You got to get back into the
headspace. And that's exactly what it is
with sermon prep where it's like if I, if I'm looking at every
notification or if I even have notifications on and I'm hearing
the Ding all the time, it's distracting you and your mind
can't focus on what it needs to focus on.
And so you're right, you need to Createspace for your mind just
to focus. And I even find for myself like
putting your buds in, putting some sort of like background
noise on so that I can sort of get in a zone sort of and just
focus on on what I on that sermon prep.
Yeah, I think like it's important to like not just for
Sherman prep or anything like that.
The deep work is something that everybody has, something that
they do that's that there requires concentration.
But that was one of the things you mentioned your deep work
time, your best times in the mornings that Cal Newport would
just say that should be everybody's deep work time.
Find out time in the morning before you get into your day
because the rest of the day will determine your mindset for the
day. And so like if I get started on
something or if I don't get started, I say, all right, my
deep works going to be from 3:00 PM to 5:00 PM, whatever.
I'm going to work on this. It's that much harder because
you have to figure out a way to then just like reset your brain
and then start something, something more like it's because
it's hard because you're already going to be attacked by all the
distractions. So you got to figure out a way.
So the morning is the best. So I think I might join the 5:00
AM club. I've done this before.
I've gotten up at 5 AM, 5:30 AM and gotten busy, but like really
getting like annoyingly consistent with it.
And then also like yours, you, you said, it's not like it isn't
super annoying when someone sees that that Joe's got
notifications turned off. But like in your mind, I'm being
annoying, right? Like I'm turning it off.
Do not disturb me. I'm busy, like I can't be to
set, you know, whatever. Yeah, but that's Cal Newport's
thing. He's like, I'm going to be
annoying with this to people like, because they need to
understand I'm setting up barriers and guardrails in my
life so that I can do something that's valuable.
And that's the goal. So I'm thinking about doing, you
know, figuring out all those strategic things that you need
to do prior to when you actually start.
Well, yeah, you're exactly right.
You are just putting boundaries in because the goal is not to be
unavailable. The goal is to say, I have a
certain, a certain work that I need to get done and I'm leaving
a window of time for that. And then I open up my afternoons
for whatever, whatever other work there is to do, whether
that's, you know, texting people, encouraging people doing
visitations, whatever. And so you createspace for that,
right? Because I think the idea is I, I
think some of the hesitation is that you think we need to be
connected. I think that's the problem that
we feel like we have to be connected, that every text that
comes in is vitally important for me to answer or every phone
call that comes in is vitally important.
I would argue that it's not like even if you are in some sort of
trade and you and you, let's say you're the person, you know,
you're, you're building the house or doing the work and
you're also trying to get new customers.
I don't think you need to be on standby all the time with your
phone, like focus on doing work through the morning and then
make yourself available in the afternoon or whatever.
Like you can get to it later. Like most often times, something
is not so pressing that it has to be figured out right this
second. Right.
And if someone, if someone is that urgent, like, or they need
something that urgent, they'll find a way to get in touch with
you. Or if they, if you lose the the
contact or whatever, that might not be something you wanted to
do business with anyway because they're going to be so pressing
on you all the time. Yeah, it's, it's so many things
to think about, but yeah, so that I think that's true.
Like the other thing is like recognizing that the work that
I'm going to, that I want to do, like deep work that I want to do
is valuable work. Because I think that's the other
thing in your mindset, you're you're devaluing the work that
you want to do by just making yourself available all the time.
And so like I just turned notifications off of certain
apps forever. Like like, I don't know, text
messages never. But like Signal, yes, I turn
Signal off, you know, so I will look at it from time to time,
but it's not something is primary for me.
So those are the types I don't know, like what's another thing?
Just quickly, like what is your recommendation for like how
quickly should I return a phone call?
Or is it super like like what's the what?
Do you have any timelines built into your mind?
Like, OK, it's a phone call, maybe I should call them back
or, or it's a text. Maybe I should reach back out or
is there like certain if it's a e-mail, is it like 10 days?
I don't know or never. I remember seeing something from
someone else I I'm not a good judge of this 'cause I feel like
I people have probably have complaints about me and my
communication. I would think a text or a phone
call should be should be answered the same day, same day.
An e-mail is less pressing. I I think a few days is probably
acceptable. I've heard other people say
within the week, but I would think generally it's like like
for for me, a text, if someone texts me, I am already assuming
this is not that important. OK, It's, that's my assumption.
I'm working from that starting point of like, if you really
needed to get a hold of me, you would have called because it was
important. Like I, I have to talk to Joe
right now. And that's the same thing that I
do. Like if I text people, that's
the same assumption I have, right?
That I'm I'm just hoping you're going to get back to me in the
near future. I think there's a shift in
thinking like I think that there's a like a text message.
There is a certain like demographic that thinks the text
messages is all they'll do. I fall into that demographic
like I don't really want to call.
If it's a call, I think, Oh my goodness, somebody's arm fell
off or super important. What's wrong?
Yeah, like what's wrong? OK, I'm answering the phone text
messages is my primary like desire to communicate by text
because I really don't want to talk.
I just, I mean, I'm fine talking to you in like this or like in
in person, but like anyway, I'd so I think there's a certain,
but, but I know that the newer generation is going away from
text. So the younger generation, I
experienced this back in Louisville, these guys who were
in there like early 20s, they, they refused to text.
They just call really all the time for everything.
And I'm like, well, I don't know if it's important or not.
So like. Interesting.
So you, you, you have that experience that young people are
moving away from. Yeah.
But I don't know if it's widespread and I don't know if
our podcast sample size is widespread enough for you guys
to tell me. But anyway, it's interesting to
think about. But I, I tend to agree with you.
I think like a text 24 hours, you know, the phone call, maybe
within like, you know, depending on your availability, it's a
late, late in the evening call, maybe the next day or whatever.
I think that's OK. There are probably a lot of
factors because I do know a lot of guys that if it's like
arranging plans or, or like simple, like simple texts,
things like that, they're fine. They're happy to text, they're
happy to message, you know, WhatsApp or Signal or a text or
whatever. But if it's as soon as it gets
into like paragraphs and, and you know, like more details,
they're just like, no, then just give me a phone call, 'cause I
think, and I sort of appreciate that perspective because it is
just so much easier to communicate.
I know for me, I sort of do the same thing, but I do I, I
actually really appreciate the voice messages.
I do too. I know they can be awkward and
weird and some people hate them, but I like them because it's the
best of both worlds. It's like I don't just have to
communicate via text. I can sort of convey what I want
to convey with my voice and give you information and sort of give
you all the background stuff and whatever.
Leave a minute or two-minute voice, voice message.
Sometimes 4 minutes. They get, they get sneaky long,
right? Sometimes you're like, whoa,
I've been on here for 4 minutes already.
But anyway, then it's like, then you can respond when you want,
right? It's like I don't have to call
you because it's not really that important, but I'm leaving you
the information that I need with a tone that I want to leave
because text doesn't. Text doesn't have tone.
But now you can respond whenever you get a chance.
It's not like a pressing thing, but.
Yeah, So deep works on my mind. I'm trying to think through like
how do I set up my day in a way that is most impactful for my
family and for the Kingdom and all these things that we're
doing and trying to to navigate all the different things in
life. So deep work by Cal Newport.
That was a long. I'll maybe just give one
recommendation, like in that sense that I've, I've learned
from someone else. I, I know I have someone who's,
who's very intentional with this and I really, really appreciate
their perspective. You know, he looks at his
schedule like a plate and you, you fill up the plate.
And so whenever he gets asked to do something different that's
not on his plate, he thinks about it and is very careful
about it and very prayerful about it, that if I'm going to
add this to my plate, that means I must remove something else
from my plate to make room. You don't just keep piling it
on. Right.
It'll be like Thanksgiving dinner where you just finish and
you're just like, you can't do anything else for two days.
But right, So full. Right.
And you and you don't want to do that, right?
And I think that's a mistake that some people make is they
think that every time they're asked to do something, they just
keep adding things to their plate and then get super busy
and stressed and potentially burnout.
And we don't want that for people in our church.
I, I think you ought to be considering having healthy
boundaries in your life. You need to have space for you
to pursue your relationship with the Lord.
You need space to pursue your wife and your kids or even just
your friends if you're single. Those things are important.
And so you need to have healthy boundaries.
And when you get asked to do something, consider dropping
something else off your plate. Because I, the Lord is not
asking you just to to make yourself so insanely busy that
you know you, you hate your life, right?
Yeah, that's super important. Like the deep work is your
spiritual work, too. You can think about it that way.
So yeah, it's good. Anything else to add today,
Pastor Joe? I think that's it.
Pastor Joe Penner. OK, well, as usual, like we
started to end this thing with a prayer.
So would you mind praying to close us out?
Absolutely. All right.
Well, we thank you so much for your Word and that we get to to
meet weekly, meet weekly and grow together in it, to study
it, to analyze it, to live by it.
Lord, we pray that you would help us to live by it, by faith,
and that we would not just be a people of your word on Sundays,
but that we would be a church and a people that are rooted in
your Word throughout the week on a daily basis.
That we are finding the nourishment and the strength
that we can find in Your Word on a daily basis.
And Lord, we pray that Your Spirit would be active in our
hearts and in our lives as we grow in Your Word, and that You
would be applying these truths to our lives so that we can find
joy and hope and peace in these things.
And as we think particularly of the resurrection in our
resurrected bodies, what a glorious hope that we have in
Christ that we will be resurrected with new bodies that
will never perish again. Lord, we pray that that that
would strengthen us and enable us to live lives for your glory,
to work hard, to be steadfast, to be immovable as we work hard,
knowing that all of our work is producing an eternal weight of
glory that we will enjoy forever.
We thank you in Jesus name, Amen.
Well, thanks all, as always, for
joining us. We've got two more weeks in
First Corinthians. It's crazy.
We're getting to the end and then we will finish the year out
and then start the next book. Can I go ahead and announce it?
Yeah, we're going to be in Nehemiah, Nehemiah, Nehemiah.
So we'll be there for, I don't know, about 2 1/2 months, maybe
three months total in Nehemiah. So we're looking forward to that
as well. We got two more weeks of First
Corinthians. So keep joining us.
We'll talk to you soon.