1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,400 Another spirit is being made. That's it. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,920 Another spirit is being made. Gary, what is going on? 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,080 Welcome, welcome everybody. And you know, welcome to 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,800 Splintered Spirits, the podcast hosted by me, Gary and my nephew 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,160 John Santa from Santa Paranormal, where we try to 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,000 answer the question, what are spirits by exploring all types 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,960 of spirit communication theories and beliefs. 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,000 And really the goal here is, you know, to as you know, John, as 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,120 we're trying to see how these different theories and beliefs 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,800 fit into your theory of what spirits are. 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,160 And spirits, as you know, or as if you're new to the podcast, 12 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,560 you'll know that John believes spirits are the fractured 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,800 memories of the living that somehow get attached to the 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,960 energy dispersed from our bodies when we pass. 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,040 Did I get that right? Pretty much. 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,360 Pretty much. I pretty much got it down, I 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:58,160 think. I think I got. 18 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,480 It down. I think I know how to how to 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,160 sell it. John, today we got a really 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,319 special guest. Today we're taking another step 21 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,440 forward on this journey with one of the most prolific voices in 22 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,200 paranormal research, Sam Baltrusus. 23 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:17,120 Sam is the author of 18 books on ghosts, hauntings, and historic 24 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:22,120 spirits, including Ghosts of Salem, Haunted Boston Harbor, 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,480 and Ghosts of the American Revolution. 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,560 He's been featured on some of the most chilling shows in the 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,720 genre, The Curse of Lizzie Borden, a Haunting Most 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,320 Terrifying Places, Haunted Towns, Paranormal Night Shift, 29 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,080 History's Most Haunted and Fright Club with the Ghost 30 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:45,120 Brothers, and Jack Osborne. A historian by training and a 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,880 clairvoyant by nature, Sam blends meticulous research with 32 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,280 first hand spiritual encounters. He's taught spirit communication 33 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,120 across the country, spoken at paranormal conferences and 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,160 libraries nationwide, and even appeared in the acclaimed 35 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,120 documentary The House in Between Two. 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,400 Whether he's tracing ancestral hauntings or channeling 37 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,360 overlooked spirits from the past, Sam's work goes beyond 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,560 ghost stories. It's about giving voice to those 39 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,080 long silence, which is something you like to do when you go to 40 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,160 these cemeteries and try to hear what they have to say and 41 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,920 document. And today, that voice brings us 42 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:23,160 to 1 of America's most iconic haunted landscapes, Sleepy 43 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,720 Hollow. This is a regular haunt for many 44 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,840 spirits, legends, lore, and even our own John Santa. 45 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,480 His latest book, Ghosts of Sleepy Hollow, explores the real 46 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,240 stories behind the legend, the energy that lingers in the 47 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,240 shadows of the Hudson Valley, and why this sleepy little town 48 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,200 may be one of the most spiritually charged places in 49 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,120 the country. And guys, I will have a link to 50 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,720 this book in my bio where you will be able to see it. 51 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,240 Ladies and gentlemen, we want to welcome Sam to the podcast. 52 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,080 Can you hear us OK, Sam? Yeah, I can hear. 53 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,080 You guys, can you hear me? I can. 54 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,720 OK, you're loud and clear, Sam. Thank you for joining us today. 55 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:05,720 I'm really, I'm really grateful to be here. 56 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:11,800 So yeah, I, when you described the, your take on spirits, we're 57 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,200 very similar actually. So like, so I'm excited to talk 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,440 about what your theory is and what my theory is. 59 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,120 We could maybe work together on that. 60 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,400 Oh, well, this is great, Sam, because the first question I 61 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,080 always have for any of our guests is this very thing. 62 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,360 Sam, what do you think spirits are and what happens when we 63 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,040 die? Yeah, so like the, I always say 64 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,800 a, a ghost has history demanding to be remembered. 65 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,160 So my approach really with spirits, it's not disembodied 66 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,040 souls, however, you know, as as a medium, as a clairvoyant, I 67 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,160 have encountered that. But my my experience has been 68 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,680 more of a psychic imprint of soul fragments. 69 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,080 So if there was a trauma at a location, it's going to 70 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,480 psychically imprint itself on the land. 71 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,040 And when you talked about splintered spirits, I'm like, 72 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:58,760 that's exactly what I think as well. 73 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,080 And that's actually more of a shamanic or shamanic approach to 74 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,720 the paranormal. So, and part of my job as 75 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,920 someone that works as a clairvoyant is to tell their 76 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,960 story so we can do what's called soul retrieval and to bring 77 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,800 those pieces together to make a whole. 78 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,040 You're going to have to forgive me because I'm a big noob. 79 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,959 When you you use the word clairvoyant, you use is that 80 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:25,120 separate from medium or is it is it a faction of a medium or is 81 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,680 it a medium? So clairvoyant is just an 82 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,040 umbrella term for seeing So I actually see spirits, but it 83 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,640 does shift for me. So I go from seeing spirits to a 84 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,080 clear cognizant, which is actually just knowing stuff. 85 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,640 And then also there's, there's different Claire's. 86 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,200 So a clairvoyant for me is kind of like my primary Clair, and so 87 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,480 that's, that is clear seeing. But what's different with a 88 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,680 clear clear avoidance versus clairaudience? 89 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,400 Clairaudience is you actually get to just in your ear, so 90 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,800 sometimes it's like playing charades with a ghost. 91 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,000 Gotcha. Sam, how did you know? 92 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,400 Like when was your, when did you first realize you had this 93 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,360 clairvoyant ability? What happened? 94 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,960 So I, my whole story, it starts when I was younger, I, my dad 95 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,560 was in the Navy. We, I grew up in Florida. 96 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,040 So Florida, Chicago, my parents divorced and I moved back to 97 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,720 Florida. After the divorce, I started 98 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,040 having experiences going back to my granddaddy's home in Florida. 99 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,240 And he actually passed and I would have conversations with 100 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,000 him and it turns out I was sleeping in the room that he he 101 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,960 slept in at Old House. How old were you? 102 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,000 I was like 6-6 to 8, so that that whole that whole period was 103 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,120 sort of my experience with with spirits and communicating with 104 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,320 my granddaddy. But then it started getting 105 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,840 darker really quick. I had a visitation when I was 106 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,400 around 8 years old, what looked like a man wearing a hat with 107 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,000 red glowing eyes. My sister was in the room with 108 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,560 me and that scarred me for for many, many years to the point 109 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,120 where I was terrified of the spirit realm and communicating 110 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,520 with ghosts. I worked as a journalist for 111 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,360 about 20 years until I sort of it started writing paranormal 112 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,360 themed books. And then that's when the doors 113 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,080 reopened for me and I started re examining my gifts and my 114 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,160 abilities. And I've worked that muscle to 115 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:20,760 the point where now I actually teach. 116 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,160 I have a group called Spirit Squad and we I work with up and 117 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,000 coming mediums to so they won't make the mistakes that I've made 118 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,400 in the past. First of all, you have every 119 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,600 right to be terrified. If I saw something with red 120 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,200 glowing eyes as a child, that would change probably the course 121 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,520 of of my life in a giant way. You know, you know, what he's 122 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,400 describing is a, is a, is a very common dark manifestation. 123 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:49,440 Many people have that top hat manifestation, including my own 124 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,480 mother and your sister. So that that must have been 125 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,160 terrifying for you. Yeah, so the the man with a hat, 126 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,120 and we can't say hat man because that's actually trademarked, 127 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,920 but. Is it really? 128 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,640 Wow, that's funny, but. But yeah, so I I always have 129 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,680 interpreted it as it's not the same manifestation that 130 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,040 everybody else is seeing. I strongly feel this is after 131 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,560 years of years of like trying to communicate with it and 132 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,720 understanding like what is trying to tell me. 133 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,400 It's more of a watcher. It has it, it appears before 134 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,000 something bad is about to happen. 135 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,680 So when my biological father passed away, I saw him again as 136 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,960 an adult. When I saw when my stepfather 137 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,960 passed, I saw him as well. So he's almost become like a 138 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,920 harbinger for me. And I, I mean, I've been told by 139 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,720 other mediums that he's with me unfortunately a lot. 140 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,120 So he kind of like looks out for me. 141 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,960 So I actually view him as a family member, but that's not 142 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,760 how my, that's not my first impression. 143 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,480 I was terrified as a kid. As an adult I've seen him again, 144 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,760 but I also have maybe more of a empathy toward him compared to 145 00:07:54,760 --> 00:08:00,840 what I did when I was younger. Do you find, you know, with this 146 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,680 history that like of of how it started in Florida and now being 147 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:10,360 a part of New England, is there a change in any sort of like 148 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,520 that sort of spirituality or or what you're finding in spirits 149 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,560 as you move or you know, it is the backdrop different? 150 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,320 Was the openness in Florida different than in bought than in 151 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,200 New England? Or was it all just part of the 152 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,080 same growth? Well, my part of Florida was the 153 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,000 Bible Belt portion, so it was right called Pensacola, FL and 154 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,120 it's right by Alabama. And so I grew up with that. 155 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:39,320 My gifts were from the devil. And in fact, my whole family 156 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,080 were kind of similar in a sense that they had gifts as well. 157 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,159 And they tried to hide it because of the just because of 158 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,120 the region. So when I went to New England, 159 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,920 it was almost like a liberation. I felt like I was surrounded by 160 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,680 history and I've always been kind of called to New England. 161 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,240 So I went to College in the 90s to and out of the blue, it was 162 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,160 almost like I was called to go there. 163 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,480 And it turns out years later after my mother did research 164 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,880 that we have ties to New England. 165 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,200 So I think, and getting back to even the man with a hat, I 166 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,280 strongly feel that he's a family member from New England 167 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,920 actually, because he's wearing a Pilgrim hat and there's 168 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:23,440 something worse about him that is not the typical manifestation 169 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,320 that everybody else sees. I feel like it's my personal 170 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:27,560 hat, man. Sure. 171 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:29,360 Yeah. Personal hat, man. 172 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,240 Yeah, those repressed pilgrims, I can see why they're so upset 173 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,200 with everybody, by the way, when they come through. 174 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,400 Sam, when's the last time you saw the the man with the the red 175 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,240 eyes and the hat? Yeah, so he actually appeared 176 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,720 right before. So I had a situation that kind 177 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,520 of ties in the ghost of Sleepy Hollow. 178 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,680 I was doing one last story, which is the bronze lady of 179 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:55,480 Sleepy Hollow cemetery going there is a whole legend that if 180 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,640 you piss her off, then she'll do something like, you know, like 181 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:02,400 drop a tree on your Camaro, which was, you know, something 182 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,080 that happened in the 70s to this lady. 183 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,680 But my friend April and I went to the cemetery and I ended. 184 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,080 So we were taking selfies and my friend April's from Jersey. 185 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,360 So she was like, see, I'm think of we're taking photos and I'm 186 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,800 like, April, you can't disrespect the bronze lady. 187 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,800 And she's like, oh, she thought I was hocus pocus. 188 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,840 I thought I was hocus pocus, just urban legend. 189 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,160 And then stuff like, so I dropped what a gross quartz cuz 190 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,760 I carry rocks with me when I go on investigations. 191 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,960 And I thought I dropped my rose quartz. 192 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,080 So I, I pick it up from the grounds thinking that, that it 193 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,960 was mine, but actually wasn't mine. 194 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,360 And then for a whole month I have visitations like a woman 195 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,320 screaming and things associated with what I think was the bronze 196 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,800 lady. So we apparently pissed off the 197 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:57,440 bronze lady. And so I, about a month later, I 198 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,240 was about to the point where I was actually writing the section 199 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,800 on the bronze lady in my book goes to Sleepy Hollow. 200 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,480 And then I saw him kind of come through the wall and I'm like, 201 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,440 no, no, no, no, you're not allowed here. 202 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,360 And so he went kind of went back and to into wherever he went. 203 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,720 And then the following day there was a fire that destroyed my 204 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,680 apartment and there was water damage. 205 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,320 So I lost all my research. So years and years of research 206 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,320 was lost in the fire. But it was the, so it was 207 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,680 actually not a fire that destroyed my apartment. 208 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:31,280 It was the water from the apartment, water damage, water 209 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,720 damage and it destroyed everything. 210 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,760 And so as I was kind of, you know, the following day after, 211 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,640 well, it was actually a couple of days, so all the water was 212 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,320 drained from my apartment. What was remaining was moldy and 213 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,960 wet and disgusting. And they were like, you have to, 214 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,200 you have to evacuate and get all your stuff out. 215 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,440 So there was no electricity in the apartment. 216 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:54,040 And then he appears again on my wall. 217 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:55,600 Almost. What I thought at the time was 218 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,160 he was taking credit for for the fire. 219 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,400 But I think he was letting me know he was trying to warn me. 220 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,160 So. So yeah, that was the last time 221 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,760 I saw him. Wow. 222 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,440 Yeah. How do you, you know, you're 223 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,760 talking about your research and your writing and you're dealing 224 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,680 with this, you know, clairvoyance. 225 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:20,640 How do you separate your mediumship from your writing and 226 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,040 not bring all of that into it? Or do you want to bring all of 227 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,080 that into it? Like, what's the what's the 228 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,560 difference between being an historian and a clairvoyant when 229 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:31,760 you're trying to write these books? 230 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,120 It it's really hard. I mean, like, so you kind of you 231 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,640 kind of tapped on the topic. That really has been frustrating 232 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,560 for me. So I worked as a journalist for 233 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:43,360 many years. I would, I would kind of, I 234 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,600 would say I'm more of a paranormal journalist as opposed 235 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,320 to a historian. My dad was a history teacher. 236 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,400 So I did grow up in that environment. 237 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,280 This is my step dad that was a history teacher. 238 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:55,920 But but yeah, so it's really hard to kind of like walk the 239 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,840 line. I did kind of know stuff that 240 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,640 other people didn't know as a journalist. 241 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,920 In fact, I kind of use that my abilities along the way 242 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,520 secretly. So I was, I was in the crystal 243 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,720 closet, which is what I call it for many years. 244 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,720 But when I started writing paranormal theme books, it 245 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,320 started to reveal itself and it actually became an asset out in 246 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,160 the field doing paranormal research. 247 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,480 So, so there's a fine line I do when I write my books IA lot of 248 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,560 times I'll even get reviews. They're like, they're like, you 249 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:29,880 know, how does he know that? And I'm like, because, you know, 250 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,520 I use my, my gifts as a clairvoyant to get the stories 251 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,040 that are often aren't told. And then I then I back it, back 252 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:41,560 it up with historical research. So if we have things that kind 253 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:44,280 of work together, and I've have a lot of those, like those 254 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,480 situations that are not covered and not talked about and I'm 255 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,680 able to kind of uncover them using my abilities. 256 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,880 That's actually very similar to how I document. 257 00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:59,720 I use, you know, spirit boxes and other means to document 258 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,440 areas. And then after a while I look up 259 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,760 the history and see if what I've been documenting matches the 260 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,000 history. And you know, more often than 261 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,960 not, it does. Do you have any, do you have any 262 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:17,480 specifics, Sam, in any of your books where there was like a, a 263 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,080 reinforcement or, or even a contradiction with like what you 264 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,720 were experiencing as a clairvoyant versus what the 265 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,160 history and the lore was you were researching? 266 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,160 I mean, pretty much every book has, has at least one situation 267 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,120 where that happens. A good example for me is 268 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:40,440 Concord's Colonial end. And so I, in addition to, you 269 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,520 know, I, I'm, I'm an immersion journalist, so I like to 270 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,920 actually put myself in the location for months, sometimes 271 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,000 years while I'm writing the book. 272 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,360 So I, I was working at Concord's colonial and I worked the 273 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,160 overnight shift and I actually wrote a book. 274 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,160 I have it right over here goes to Concord's colonial end and 275 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,400 the whole, and it's supposedly one of the most haunted ends in 276 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:07,960 the country. And I so I was working on that 277 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,680 book and the whole thing is Room 24 was a makeshift hospital 278 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,560 during the Battle of Lexington and Concord. 279 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,640 And I actually had experiences in that room, but it felt kind 280 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,400 of off to me. And it turns out that that room 281 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:27,200 was actually not built in 1775, so it didn't serve as a 282 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,920 makeshift hospital. So yeah, it was kind of like me 283 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,560 telling the truth and the thing it doesn't fit in with the lore 284 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,520 that's always associated with with that end. 285 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,440 And so I was I had to basically break the news. 286 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,040 Hey, this actually was not built and the 1700s. 287 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,840 There's no way this could have served as it makes your 288 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,440 hospital. And truthfully, another great 289 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,960 example is so George's Island, one of the first locations that 290 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,240 I visited had an experience. There's a whole a lady in black 291 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,040 that's been reported for many years at George's Island. 292 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,720 And there's a whole story that Melanie Lanier, she was a 293 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,200 Confederate wife. Her her husband was in prison on 294 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,040 on the island and and she was hanged on the island island for 295 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,480 trying to rescue her husband, break him out of prison. 296 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,600 Well, the truth is she never existed. 297 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,960 So things like that, I, I tend to debunk actually folklore are 298 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,760 stories that people think of, think are facts. 299 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,080 Can I ask you guys, Bob and I put this question on both of you 300 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,320 guys. Why? 301 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,200 Because I, I just feel like I see this and this is something 302 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,560 that I've noticed. Why are all the lady ghosts in 303 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,520 white or black? Do they have no other colors 304 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,000 that they can choose from? Like what is that? 305 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,200 Is this like just because of how we're seeing it? 306 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,400 What is the mission on this? Or like what is the reasoning 307 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,800 behind this? It's always the lady in white or 308 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,480 the lady in black. And it's never like, you know, 309 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,320 the woman in red or like, you know, she's wearing like a 310 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,000 lavender. I mean, what's the deal? 311 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,320 Well, I mean, like Salem, there's a leading in blue, so 312 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,240 there are different colors, but I actually talked a lot about 313 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:06,160 that and goes to Sleepy Hollow. So I used Sleepy Hollow as a, as 314 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,400 a way to kind of, it's almost like a feminist manifesto. 315 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,280 And I talked to Leanna Renee Heber, who wrote a book called A 316 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,800 haunted History of Invisible Women and my friend Alex Matsuo, 317 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,359 who wrote a book on a women in the paranormal. 318 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,680 So I, I actually feel like it's sort of they don't have a name. 319 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,800 So it's almost like marginalizing women in history. 320 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,840 And it's, it's also kind of taking away their identity. 321 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,960 So the, the lady in white, the lady in blue, the lady in black, 322 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,520 it does symbolic, it's symbolic for certain things. 323 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,320 So usually the lady in white is someone like someone wearing a 324 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,840 wedding gown, for example, or the lady in black is somewhat in 325 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,000 mourning, but the colors are significant. 326 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,680 But again, I think it's it's a way to control the narrative 327 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,800 specifically of women. That's, that's, that's, that's 328 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,320 an interesting take on it because. 329 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,400 Yeah, history would. It's funny because, you know, I 330 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,000 have a couple of theories on what what it could be, but 331 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,560 perception is a big one. And you know, one thing that, 332 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,960 you know, humans like to do, we do like to simplify things. 333 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,120 And you know that that, you know, falls along the lines of 334 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,120 what Sam saying. And unfortunately, details, 335 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,200 details are lost. And, you know, it also could be 336 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,560 that, you know, most general normal people, when they see 337 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,000 these, you know, apparitions, these spirits, you know, their 338 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:36,000 perception only allows them to see a woman in white, you know, 339 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,920 a woman in black. Again, you know, and and going 340 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,960 back into Samuel was saying, saying that's, you know, quite 341 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,040 possibly the reason. Well, look, men have been, men 342 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,040 have been holding down women for how long now, right? 343 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,240 I mean, come on. It's like from just the, you 344 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,680 know, witch trials themselves and Salem to everything else 345 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,080 else. I mean, of course, why not just 346 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,400 break it down and make it even more? 347 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,280 It's a really interesting. It's a really interesting take 348 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,720 on on all of that. Sam in in your studies, when 349 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,880 you're doing your research, I also like to talk about this a 350 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,120 lot because we're going to I'll show you. 351 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,200 I don't know how familiar you are with what John does And and 352 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,080 if you've had a chance to look at his stuff and we'll play some 353 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,080 when we because we're about to get into trying to make this 354 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,760 transition into the Sleepy Hollow talk here. 355 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,920 But it's like John uses a lot of tech is a big part of the 356 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,120 paranormal investigative world these days. 357 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,440 And I'm just curious sort of, you know, what your methods are 358 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,800 when you when you go into the into that side of when you're 359 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,880 wearing that hat, How much do you, how much do you rely on 360 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,680 like EMF or Evps or thermal cameras or spirit boxes versus 361 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,040 your own, you know, clairvoyance? 362 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,680 What do you, you know, or is it a help? 363 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,240 Is it a hindrance? Is it horseshit? 364 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,360 Like, where do you fall on the tech spectrum and where tech is 365 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:53,040 going, you know, in this, in this study, in this space? 366 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,520 So I personally like tech because it validates with what 367 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,320 I'm what I'm picking up and I like to work in tandem. 368 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,040 So a lot of times, especially if I'm doing a show, I'll be 369 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,360 brought into a location like House in between 2:00 or Curse 370 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:08,440 the Lizzie Borden, I'll be brought in to do what's called a 371 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,480 psychic sweep. So I'll actually read the 372 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,120 location and then the investigators come in and they 373 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,080 they pick up like Evps or spear box or whatever and they 374 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,760 actually validate. What I pick up or so it, it 375 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,840 works in tandem. So I do actually love working 376 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,160 with the more the tech side because it actually it validates 377 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,520 with what what I'm getting. I also like to work with other 378 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,360 mediums, which is not the norm. A lot of times mediums don't 379 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,800 like to work together, but I like it for validation. 380 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,280 And I'll be honest with you, I have a lot of self doubt 381 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,920 sometimes. So I, I'll go in and really 382 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,200 question what I'm picking up, especially if it's something 383 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,760 that, you know, for a house in between 2:00, I picked up that 384 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,400 there was a lynching on the property. 385 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,400 And that doesn't, there's no, I mean, I didn't even know where I 386 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,720 was going. They dropped me off. 387 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,920 They're like, you can't use your dowsing rods. 388 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,200 And so I'm, I'm out there and like I'm, this is what I'm 389 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,280 picking up. And it was terrifying for me to 390 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,800 see that on camera, But I was right. 391 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,160 Actually there was a lynching on the property. 392 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,840 And so I guess so that for me, it's just more validation. 393 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,480 It also helps when I have self doubt with with my abilities. 394 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,520 What are dousing rods? Oh, so I actually have a pair 395 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,560 just kind of sitting on the side. 396 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:26,560 So dousing rods are which sticks that I use them a lot in Salem, 397 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,440 but they were kind of designed to look for water sources, but 398 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,520 mediums use it a lot. Paranormal investigators use 399 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,640 them a lot for yes or no answers, but you can tweak it to 400 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,040 kind of like if you want it to point in a direction, say where 401 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,160 do you want me to go? And it'll it'll point in the 402 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,960 direction where you want to go. I use it to kind of say yes or 403 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,240 no, Are there any spirits in the room? 404 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:51,920 And then it'll cross and say no right now, which is good because 405 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,080 I'm in my apartment. Right. 406 00:21:54,640 --> 00:22:00,320 But for me, so I just they're just they're copper if you I use 407 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,520 them ones that are charged. I usually have my first pair 408 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,320 actually were charged by a high priestess, which so I actually, 409 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,960 I work a lot with witches, especially in Salem because I 410 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,760 feel like that they, they keep the dark energies away so I can 411 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,320 focus in on the on more of the, of the, the, the lingering 412 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:20,720 spirits that I want to communicate with. 413 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,360 Got it. You know, I love that you held 414 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:27,320 those up. I had no idea what those were. 415 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,760 I think I've I think that I've only seen something like that in 416 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,240 like a Bugs Bunny cartoon where there's pointing hangers that 417 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,360 like looking for thing. But you know what I love about 418 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,800 it? It's like, because we get this a 419 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,840 lot and John, and I'm going to, again, I'm going to show you a 420 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,360 video in a second. John uses a lot of, he loses 421 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:43,840 iPhone apps these days, primarily as he does his 422 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,800 cemetery walks or he goes in a haunted location. 423 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,720 And you get there's a lot of controversy about the apps, 424 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,440 right? And let me make make no mistake, 425 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,480 we're not oblivious to the controversy or the fact that 426 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,680 these things might be programmed in a certain way. 427 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,880 What, as someone new to this, and what I find it when I look 428 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,400 at it is it's like because I have those apps on my phone, but 429 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,560 I don't get the same response that John gets when he's out 430 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,760 there at all. I get the standard thing that 431 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,440 probably everybody gets like, you know, leave here, no run 432 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,960 away. Like that's probably this guy's 433 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,800 getting like some specific names. 434 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,960 He's getting real Q&A. He's getting personalities in 435 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,560 specific locations and his location Geo tracking is off. 436 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,000 So it's like, you know, he's like, oh, if we go there, this 437 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,120 ghost always makes fun of me. And sure enough, the ghost is 438 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,480 calling him an asshole every time we walk in that that room 439 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,560 through the box. That doesn't happen, you know, 440 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,440 and it's like, so there's a long story, but it's it's like when I 441 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,680 look at that, do you feel that those rods, the witch, I love 442 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,960 calling them witch sticks. What a great name witch. 443 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,800 Do do do you feel that that's more about you? 444 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,240 It is as a bet than it is the than it is the it's not the it's 445 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,960 the tool, right. Like I look at the apps as a 446 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,600 tool, you know, and that's a tool. 447 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,360 But it's like if I bought those, I'd hold it around. 448 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,480 I'd probably look like an idiot. And it's like, no, it's not 449 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,200 going to do anything. I I in my belief, but I bet if 450 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,160 you and I would argue that if I've John held it too, it might 451 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,520 work you. Know only problem. 452 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,200 The only reason why I, I never use dowsing rods, and I say this 453 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,080 in my live streams all the time, is the simple fact that my hands 454 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,720 have serious injuries, right? Tendons, ligaments, nerves. 455 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,040 If I held them, they'd be shaking. 456 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,880 They'd be, you know, it'd be my afflictions that are causing 457 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,360 them to move. Not you know, I wouldn't be able 458 00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:37,040 to use the tool properly. Right. 459 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,160 But but I guess it's a long question is how do you feel 460 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,800 about these types of divination tools, you know, is it and is 461 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,280 there anything that you have a go to with other than those or 462 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,920 that you use or like in respect to controversy around it? 463 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,680 That question makes sense. Might be a little. 464 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:58,880 Underway to say yeah, so I totally 100% agree with you on 465 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,680 Dallas and Ross. I think when I first started I 466 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,680 would actually use them on my tours in Salem. 467 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,160 And so I think people, it was under the impression that the 468 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,920 spirits were moving at them, but I feel like that I'm using them 469 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,120 to tap into my abilities. So it's almost like a, the 470 00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:16,160 validation that I was talking about earlier. 471 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,280 It's sort of like a quick validation of what I'm picking 472 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,440 up because sometimes for me as a clairvoyant, it's not obvious. 473 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,960 And it's, I need something to kind of like say yes or no, like 474 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:30,000 like, is that are you, you know, are you a male? 475 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,320 And it'll say yes. So it's me kind of like 476 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,280 validating myself. As far as other tools, I, you 477 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,200 know, I just did, I did a workshop or not a workshop, but 478 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,080 a panel where I moderated. So other people use different 479 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:47,440 divination tools like scrying. I've used Black Mirror scrying 480 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,800 before. I've also have done I'm, I'm not 481 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,880 a big spirit board person personally, because I have seen 482 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,640 those, those stories go awry. People use spirit boards and 483 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,800 they just kind of like all hell breaks loose. 484 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,720 So I kind of stayed away from spirit boards. 485 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,880 However, I really think it's your intention. 486 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,480 If you have intentions to summon a demon, you're going to summon 487 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,760 a demon. But I personally don't use 488 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,800 spirit boards but but scrying works for me. 489 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,560 And scrying could be in a fire, it can be a crystal ball, it 490 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,120 could be a Black Mirror. I actually use Black Mirror 491 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,280 scrying a lot. And that's the way where you 492 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,280 kind of focus on the mirror and you get kind of again, use your 493 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,960 clairvoyance to have a story unfold. 494 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:37,360 Use an Obsidian Black Mirror. Yeah, I use AI do have an 495 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,320 Obsidian Black Mirror. But I also I had one that was 496 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,440 made my friend Lisa. So I like when people make 497 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,600 things for me because it to me it's more authentic. 498 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,720 And it was kind of like done from a mirror she got at the 499 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,040 Dollar Tree, you know, So it doesn't have to be this fancy 500 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,800 thing to be able to to get what you need need done. 501 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,000 That's wild. That is OK. 502 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,720 But but again, it's, it's really about an extension of you. 503 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,120 Because see, look, John makes fun of me all the time because I 504 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,720 think, I think he's some sort of like a tech medium. 505 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,080 That's my personal belief. He would say his joke is he's 506 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,960 not a medium. He's an extra double XL. 507 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,640 But it's like that's the that's the bit, that's the dad joke bit 508 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,680 that he's been running with. But it's sort of like, I don't 509 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,600 know how else to explain it. So, you know, I think we, we 510 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,840 could probably have a whole separate conversation on how you 511 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,520 teach mediums because I want to put this guy to the test one of 512 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,560 these days about through through all of this. 513 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,680 But let's let's move on to Sleepy Hollow in particular, 514 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,240 because we're John and I are both from Westchester County. 515 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,480 So Sleepy Hollow is a big part of our life. 516 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,000 And what I loved in your book too, is that and I, and it never 517 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,240 really occurred to me, but so geniuses that the Headless 518 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,640 Horseman really is probably the only true. 519 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,040 They're the first true American monster, Yes, right. 520 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,520 You know, and it's sort of fascinating. 100%. 521 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,480 You know, 100% and, and, and it's like, you know, I think of 522 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,160 when I think the Headless Horseman, my headless, my 523 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,880 Headless Horseman is the Disney one, right? 524 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:06,840 Like. Ichabod. 525 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,720 Ichabod Crane, right? Like that's where it, you know, 526 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,640 that's the whole thing. So John goes there all the time. 527 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,640 I'm going to show you a quick video, just something like where 528 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,720 John using his spirit box is walking around. 529 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,240 You probably will recognize his place. 530 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,920 So let me jump into it. Hopefully, you know, sometimes 531 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,280 it takes us a little walk, but here's a little video this. 532 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:49,160 Now look again, it's a door, you know, like at the door open 533 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,800 these sort of words randomized maybe that they are, but why 534 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,520 then? Why now, right when he's 535 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,880 knocking at a door? It just seems this app ain't 536 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,120 that sophisticated, man. If they were these guys who 537 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,560 created would have created Google. 538 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:02,680 You know what I mean? It's just like there's 539 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,280 something, you know what I mean? It's just not. 540 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,240 It's another level to me that that the the kind of response 541 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,520 that he would get from it. Do you recognize that at all, 542 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,880 that cemetery? I mean, is that is that Sleepy 543 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,160 Hollow cemetery because like truthfully like that like it's 544 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,840 so Sleepy Hollow cemetery. I mean, I don't remember going 545 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,480 to that specific mausoleum or crypts. 546 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,080 It does kind of remind me of the Dark Shadows crypts that was 547 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,240 used. I mean, is there a specific 548 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:35,040 crypt to it from the? That's that's right by that, 549 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,680 that horseshoe of mausoleums right before you get to what 550 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,040 they consider the Dutch cemetery, you know, the Dutch 551 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,600 graveyard that's so, you know, right where Washington Irving is 552 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,400 buried and his whole family. So that's literally right before 553 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,640 that. So if I would have turned so my 554 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,480 back is basically facing the old Dutch church. 555 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,320 OK, Yeah, I act. Yes. 556 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,240 So that that is right, right next to Washington Irving's 557 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,600 crepes. And so, yeah, I, I spend many, 558 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,720 many afternoons and evenings. You're not supposed to be there 559 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,280 in the night time. So I'll say it was many 560 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,280 afternoons in the cemetery. Right, you know, and look so 561 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,840 Sleepy Hollow, right? It's been romanticized obviously 562 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,120 in a big way thanks to Washington Irving, you know, but 563 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,560 you obviously in the book dive into the into a darker some of 564 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,720 the lesser known haunts. What do you, what do you, what 565 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,880 did you uncover that most people don't know about the areas you 566 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,680 know, the the ghostly history of that area? 567 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,920 What did you find most fascinating that you that you 568 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,920 were excited to reveal? So having written so many books 569 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,080 on Salem, first of all, like writing ghosts of Sleepy Hollow 570 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,000 was so much fun. And so it was a nice I in Salem, 571 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,320 I felt so much guilt associated with the Salem witch trials and 572 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,640 Sleepy Hollow. I didn't because this these are 573 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,720 characters that were fictional. So a lot of the ghosts were 574 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,840 based on fictional stories that were in some, some legends that 575 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,280 were told to Washington Irving. So for me, it was a nice 576 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,840 departure from the darker material that I'm used to. 577 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,680 However, it doesn't mean that Sleepy Hollow isn't any less 578 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,600 haunted. But so as far as the story, my, 579 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,320 my, I started with the Legend of Sleepy Hollow and really focused 580 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,000 on the different stories that were mentioned throughout the, 581 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,320 the text throughout the short story. 582 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,720 I kind of looked into those. And so my, my first, you know, 583 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,920 I, my whole bat, the reason why I chose Sleepy Hollow is because 584 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,120 I lived in New York City for many years and Sleepy Hollow was 585 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,480 my, was my Salem. So it was just a, a way for me 586 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,120 to, an excuse to kind of go back to the area that I love, 587 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,720 especially around Halloween time. 588 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,560 I love it. I love it in October. 589 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,480 And so as far as the locations and the, and the stories I took, 590 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,800 first of all, like there have been reports of a, of a, of a 591 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,400 Headless Horseman ghost. And, and so looking at that, 592 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,240 like where that came from and why would there be a 593 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,440 manifestation, especially since Washington Irving, I wrote the 594 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,800 story when he was in England. So and there and we, you know, 595 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,000 you guys both know that there was a, a actual, a battle of 596 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,120 White Plains where there was a decapitated soldier. 597 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,040 So there was a real headless man or Headless Horseman that 598 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,960 perhaps he did base the towel on, but we're not 100% sure 599 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,160 about that. It may have inspired him, but 600 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,920 it's almost like an amalgam of different stories to tell the 601 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,520 story. So I looked at what he kind of 602 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,400 talked about and why are people still having sightings of the 603 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,160 Headless Horseman even, you know, 200 years later? 604 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,480 And, and it's the course. It was after the book that came 605 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,800 out in the early 1800s or the short story came out in the 606 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,120 1800s. There were multiple reports and 607 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,200 they, they kind of diminished over time. 608 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,520 But I strongly feel they're what I call thought form 609 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,080 manifestations or egregore's. And so just. 610 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,840 About to ask you about it. You stole one of my questions. 611 00:33:59,000 --> 00:33:59,760 Yeah, go ahead. Tell us. 612 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:00,920 Tell us. That was my next question. 613 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,600 Because I love this word and I love this concept of 614 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,920 manifestations. Go ahead. 615 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,800 And so for me, Sleepy Hollow is, is full of aggregors and thought 616 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,960 forms and, and, and the culprit is Washington Irving. 617 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,040 He kind of created them. And so an idea of a thought form 618 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,520 and it goes back to the Phillips experiment and it's been around 619 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,360 forever. But that idea that you can 620 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,679 create a ghost to create a manifestation. 621 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,320 And the perfect location to do that is Sleepy Hollow, 622 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,920 especially when the story is rich as the Legend of Sleepy 623 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,880 Hollow. So I think a lot of what's going 624 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:39,280 on in Sleepy Hollow is either aggregories or thought forms or 625 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,520 other spirits assuming the roles of of these characters to kind 626 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:48,520 of give them life, if you will. But I do feel like that that the 627 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,040 activity, some of it has been conjured. 628 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,800 So it's like, I mean, to me it sounds like as opposed to like a 629 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,400 poltergeist by definition, right? 630 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,960 Is like sort of like the energy from one person's manifestation, 631 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:05,680 right? It's a living. 632 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,000 It's from a living person creating this thing. 633 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,280 Whereas an Agrigore would be a mass the mob creation of an 634 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,200 entity right? Does that make sense? 635 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,920 Is that a is that way to dump? Can I just dumb down what you 636 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,280 said? Is that a one way to do it? 637 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,600 It is, and especially when you have a story as popular. 638 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,440 So when you're going to Sleepy Hollow expecting to have an 639 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,320 encounter with a Headless Horseman, you probably will also 640 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,080 tours. I mean, we have in Salem, we 641 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,280 have a lot of aggregores and thaw forms in Salem too, like 642 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,760 the lady in the lady in Blue and we tell the story over and over 643 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:41,760 again. But The thing is she never 644 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,240 existed. And so the lady in Blue has been 645 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:47,120 created. There's photos of the lady in 646 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,720 blue. And, and so, so same with Sleepy 647 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:53,160 Hollow. We have stories like hold of the 648 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:58,760 witch, Hold of the witch was I kind of talked about and, and 649 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,480 there's a kind of one line that could be pulled of the witch and 650 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,800 the legend of Sleepy Hollow. But then there it was reinforced 651 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,480 in Edward Mayhew Bacon's book in the late 1800s about creating 652 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,600 this whole character, this woman who was a witch. 653 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,120 He lives in the outskirts of Sleepy Hollow, kind of outside 654 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,720 to the Sleeping Hollow Cemetery. And she during the American 655 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:25,320 Revolution, she fought for her lands and basically turned into 656 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,600 Xena, the warrior Princess. And so what's interesting is 657 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,800 people have reported having experiences withhold of the 658 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,440 witch. There's a there's a greystone in 659 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,400 her honor and she was a created person. 660 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,440 She never existed. You know, you know, wait, wait, 661 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,520 wait, wait. Wait, John, you're telling me 662 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:47,840 there's a gravestone for somebody there? 663 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,520 There's no body. There's no body in it, is what. 664 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,080 You're saying no, that that's 100% accurate? 665 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,600 Yes. Oh wow, yes. 666 00:36:54,040 --> 00:37:01,480 So listen, my followers will hound me if I do not bring this 667 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:02,240 up. OK. 668 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:06,840 I document a place called Buck Out New York. 669 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:12,600 Oh yeah. OK, and in my documentation the 670 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,680 spirits speak of an entity called the Dula Han. 671 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,560 They will say they will say the Dula Han, the Dula Han. 672 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,840 And in doing research about the Dula Han, you know, it's created 673 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,760 many ways, but one way this entity is created is by losing 674 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:34,640 its head in battle. And Buck Out Rd., Those woods 675 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:41,040 are right near where the battle, I think it was October 26th or 676 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:46,840 28th, 1776, the Battle of White Plains, which is what's 677 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,960 referenced in the Legend of Sleepy Hollow. 678 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:52,200 And I believe there's a line in the actual Legend of Sleepy 679 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,120 Hollow where he says that, you know, the rider rides back to 680 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,680 the place where he lost his head. 681 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,720 And that would be the woods of Buck Out. 682 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,480 And I, in my documentation, I come across them Speaking of the 683 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,160 headless rider, the headless mercenary, and they say the 684 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,360 Dulhan and it's terrifying. And I don't get, I don't get 685 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,800 scared of things. Like I that's like one thing 686 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,080 about me. I don't get scared. 687 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,000 But that resonates as, you know, Gary said, us being from 688 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,240 Westchester, growing up with that legend of Sleepy, you know, 689 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,960 legend of Sleepy Hollow, that resonates with me. 690 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,400 And it's a terrifying thing to think about that I'll be sitting 691 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,520 at buck out and then all of a sudden I'm going to see that 692 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,200 this horseman, you know? And Sam Buck out Rd. 693 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,440 Is also known for like it's got years and years of horrific 694 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,440 tragedy from, you know, from dealing with you know, the 695 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,280 treatment from slaves to the you know, a woman killing her kids 696 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,240 the legend of that or the the Buck out family, you know, 697 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,720 murdering murders and everything like you'll. 698 00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:58,840 Mary Buck out. Mary buck out. 699 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,960 Cannibals. I mean you it's it's. 700 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,040 So many legends and she's a late. 701 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,840 Isn't there another lady in white over there too? 702 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,240 Yeah, that that's, that's Mary Buck Out, who last three 703 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:15,000 sessions ago at Buck Out, she actually came through, which was 704 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,880 which was wild. And then last night when I was 705 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,280 at Buck Out last night, they were speaking about her saying, 706 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,880 you know, how she hung herself. And you know, that's pretty 707 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,560 wild. But yeah, the the whole 708 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,560 Dullahan, Headless Horseman, buck out is just it. 709 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,600 It's insane to hear that. First time I heard it, I freaked 710 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,120 out. I had no idea what they were 711 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,640 talking about. You know, I was just like, what 712 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,040 is going on? So it's just and, and reading 713 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,600 your book, which I read, you know, I just figured you'd like 714 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,480 to hear about the Dullahan and, you know, more Ruded legends. 715 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,160 Yeah, I so I I have. So I went to the location at the 716 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,600 Battle of White Plains. So it is right by the road. 717 00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:58,920 Have I explored the road like you have? 718 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,360 No, I haven't, but, and I did do I actually also did a lot of 719 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,040 research. So this conversation kind of 720 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,680 turned me on to the legend of lore associated with I think 721 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,640 it's like a a mile and a half strip, right. 722 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:10,720 So it's like not a very. Long. 723 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,120 Yeah. About, yeah, about two miles, 724 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,320 yeah. And so I haven't gone like so 725 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,560 close to the location. I will tell you like I felt and 726 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,840 there have been reports of the Headless Horseman over there 727 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,320 there and I'm like, why would there be reports over there? 728 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,800 Not Sleepy Hollow if it's in fact the thought for 729 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,560 manifestation. So I, I, I so it's, so you said 730 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,000 a Dumahan Dullahan. Dullahan, Dullahan. 731 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,360 But it could be both, Sam, because what you're saying makes 732 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,720 perfect sense. It could be both. 733 00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:43,440 It could be the same manifestation, just brought out 734 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,880 differently, you know, through all through everyone's intent, 735 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,360 because mainly that whole, you know, thought form and all that, 736 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,600 that's intent. You know, the same thing that I 737 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,120 use to protect myself when I go to these places, you know, the 738 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,560 same way, you know, other people use their gifts and whatnot. 739 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,120 It could very well be intent. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. 740 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,560 Well, that said, I always thought like like Sleepy Hollow 741 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,560 or North Tarrytown, as you probably both know, remember it 742 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,960 as that whole area. So even in my book, I kind of go 743 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,200 outside. So I go into like Irvington like 744 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,560 like Sunnyside is. So it's not just Sleepy Hollow, 745 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,000 but for me like the woods between Tarrytown N Tarrytown 746 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,560 and and White Plains. It's so haunted, like that 747 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,840 whole. Area so haunted Sam, real quick. 748 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,520 I loved the part of the book about the Tarrytown estate. 749 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,520 That is another place that I've been documenting. 750 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,640 I've been documenting it for about a year and a half now and 751 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:49,200 it's that's a wild place. Definitely as far as hauntings 752 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,440 go. A very overlooked place and not 753 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,520 popular in another very haunted spot. 754 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,160 I was when I was reading your book. 755 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,800 I was very excited that you brought that place up. 756 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,640 My followers know it as the cottage because I stay in the 757 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,160 cottage next to Mary Duke's garden. 758 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,560 Statue Garden. Do you do you do you stay in the 759 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,320 Biddle Mansion or do you like where do you stay on the on the. 760 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,840 So I so I stay on the cottage. That's usually where I stay 761 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,600 because right now I'm focusing my documentation at the gardens. 762 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,800 OK. And I will, I am going to be 763 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,240 expanding soon and going to be staying at the estate. 764 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,040 And I'm also working out something with the goose feather 765 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,880 once it closes where I can, you know, also document at the goose 766 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,440 feather. Now, well, well, tell, tell, 767 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,760 tell all of us who all these words that you're saying that 768 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,840 sounds like we're in Middle Earth for a second. 769 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,040 Why don't you tell all of us you don't understand? 770 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,960 Like what are some of the things that you've experienced both of 771 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,960 you, you know, Sam, like in these areas that maybe that you 772 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,600 know that match up that that are in line? 773 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,560 Yeah, so I, I, I always stay at the Tarrytownhouse estate. 774 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,920 So there's the King Mansion, which is where Goose feather, he 775 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,200 was referring to the restaurant. It's a it's a Asian fusion 776 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,520 restaurant. That's amazing, by the way, that 777 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,960 that's in this beautiful white mansion. 778 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,360 And there's a supposedly a woman, a lady in white there as 779 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,520 well, but she has a name. Her name's Sybil and she was a 780 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,960 Sybil King, I think is her name. And Shibakto Mongols, right? 781 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,080 The right. The right. 782 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,440 Yeah. So she's she's sort of the ghost 783 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:31,320 haunting that location, but this whole N or there's multiple 784 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,280 rooms and multiple wings to it. And then there's a tap like 785 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,560 where you go for breakfast, there's the Biddle mansion and 786 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,440 that's that's what John's talking about. 787 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,000 So there's a another mansion on the same property that to me is 788 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,760 the most haunted. It's it's even more haunted in 789 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,120 the King Mansion. So where I stay is right across 790 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,080 from the Biddle Mansion. Oh. 791 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,080 Wow. That's right near where the 792 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,680 gardens is. Because there's this little it's 793 00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,520 the new, I believe it's the newest part of the entire 794 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,000 estate. It was all, it's all stone. 795 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,480 It's a stone cottage that was erected in 1930 and all the 796 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,040 stones came out of the Hudson River to build this place. 797 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,560 And I've, I've always just been, I love it. 798 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,120 You know, it's just like one of those things where that's where 799 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,560 I have to stay. But interesting enough, what 800 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:25,000 I've documented there so far I can only describe as a succubus 801 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,800 type entity and when it first came through. 802 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,680 I mean, this thing is wild. But when it first you give you 803 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,800 and I are working on the same stuff kind of like we're kind of 804 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,680 it's this is this is really you're you're hitting on stuff 805 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,120 that I've also have had on too. That's so it's and that's that's 806 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,320 so awesome. Oh yeah, this this go I've seen 807 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,640 on on his so you got to understand Sam. 808 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:50,520 So John is primarily a live influencer like the video I 809 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,440 showed you that comes after. So he'll go live like this is 810 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,080 his full time job. He'll be out there 6/6 to 8 811 00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,200 hours a day in various locations live and just streaming, talking 812 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,200 to his community with a spirit box and sometimes and he catches 813 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,400 stuff right as he's documenting, walking around talking. 814 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:10,000 So when he's at this place, this goes and is it? 815 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,160 Does it have a name? Wasn't it Lilith or something 816 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,400 similar that that's the name you were? 817 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,240 Given so it it and I sighed when it called itself Lilith because 818 00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,360 then the implications go, yeah, exactly. 819 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,240 I think this thing was just messing with me, but it called 820 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:26,440 itself Lilith. This thing hits on me 821 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,560 relentlessly and it's nasty stuff. 822 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,040 And when it first started happening, I didn't understand 823 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,000 why this thing was here when I first started documenting until 824 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:42,280 I realized just the amount of weddings and parties and the and 825 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,400 the nightlife there. I mean, the open bars outside 826 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,680 from the goose feather and like people are just partying and you 827 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,000 know, there's a lot of sexual energy when it comes to 828 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,080 partying, so. Wait, what you guys, you guys 829 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,480 both shared like a a sign, a look when the name Lilith came 830 00:45:58,480 --> 00:45:59,240 up. What does that mean? 831 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:00,640 Does that mean something to anybody that. 832 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,400 Yeah, Lilith is sort of like the the God, the goddess of the 833 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,760 underworld. So she, she's a she's a symbol 834 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,880 in, in, in witchcraft. And it's not I, I mean, a lot of 835 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,520 my friends are witches. So I'm, I'm actually not just 836 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,480 the idea that it's presenting itself as Lilith, almost like 837 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:21,120 the queen of demons almost. And so I, I personally, so can I 838 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:22,840 just tell you my experience there and. 839 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,120 To hear it, love to hear it. OK, so I kind of getting back to 840 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,920 the bronze lady, I, I stayed there many, many nights and I 841 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,120 woke up at 3:00. I heard what sounded like a fake 842 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,000 crying like like kind of like manufacturer crying. 843 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,760 So it was like, you know, and I'm like, what the hell is that? 844 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,000 And then I go outside because my place I was, I wasn't staying in 845 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,120 the cottage. I was staying actually right 846 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,360 near the middle mansion. I go outside and I see a woman 847 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,400 almost like with big kind of like black hair running up the 848 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,920 hill toward me and like, she's gonna hurt me, you know? 849 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,680 And she was wearing like a nightgown and it kind of looked 850 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,440 like, like dark shadows, like, almost like a, like a vampire 851 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,800 type woman running after me. And and so I was assumed that it 852 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,280 was me pissing off the bronze lady from earlier that day, but 853 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,680 I will never forget that it was a woman. 854 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,360 She was kind of coming after me, and she was kind of sexualized. 855 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,520 So when you said succubus, I'm like, oh, shit. 856 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:25,920 OK. Yeah, yeah. 857 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,720 And so I want to just, that's why on something that you just 858 00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:34,080 said, when you said that cry, that cry, I picked that up. 859 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,440 I picked that up. And the last time I was actually 860 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,000 at the cottage, there was something that was crying that 861 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,880 way. And I'm, and I'm like, you know, 862 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,240 I'm like, wait a minute, Is Lilith now attacking these 863 00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:48,200 spirits? Because I've even documented 864 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,960 Lilith controlling some of the female and male entities there, 865 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,600 some of the spirits. This is why I work with people 866 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,720 like you because like like this kind of like collaboration is 867 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,200 because I thought I was, I'm like, why is she crying like 868 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,400 that? And and so like having someone 869 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,760 else that has that and that's been, you know, like on video, 870 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,320 it just validates with what I picked up because I was by 871 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,440 myself in my room and there was no one in there to chronicle 872 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,840 that. So I'm glad, I'm grateful that 873 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,520 you have that. Part of me hates the fact that 874 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,240 you have it, because it makes all of this that much more real 875 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:25,280 in a really terrifying in a real terrifying way that gives me 876 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,000 chills. I I, I knew that we were going 877 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,880 to just the way you describe the estate in your book, I knew that 878 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,040 this was going to be one of my favorite parts of this whole 879 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,360 conversation. And that's just so awesome. 880 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,320 You know, it's, it's, it's a place that nobody knows about. 881 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,600 Like when you really think about it, when you think of haunted 882 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,240 places, yeah, sure, you think of Sleepy Hollow, but you don't 883 00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:49,000 think of the Tarrytown estate. You know, again, it's one of 884 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,040 those lesser known spots that you brought it up in your book, 885 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,680 which is, you know, incredible. It's, you know, Sam, you 886 00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:01,040 mentioned, you know, you talk about spiritual vortexes in, in 887 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,160 Salem. Do you believe Sleepy Hollow has 888 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,240 that or is it more of the to agrigor? 889 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,280 The that, that location, Tarrytown houses date to me 890 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,600 because it's really close to Sunnyside. 891 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,280 So if you if you go and so if you, when you read, when you 892 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,120 read my book. But the journey the book starts 893 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,800 me trying to walk from Tarrytown houses date to Sunnyside. 894 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,160 And on Google, it looked like it was walkable, but it, it really 895 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,120 wasn't walkable. So it's on Halloween night. 896 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,840 I'm walking down this path called Sunnyside Lane. 897 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,560 Cars are darting by me. I go into the back entrance in 898 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:42,360 the woods behind Sunnyside and I started hearing what sounded 899 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,120 like a horse and I saw these men and wearing kind of like Druid 900 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,480 like cloaks in the woods. And I'm like, Oh my God. 901 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,960 I walked into, I thought I walked into like a time slip and 902 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,280 I went back in time to. And so it turned out they were 903 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,720 actors with this recreation that was happening at Sunnyside. 904 00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:03,040 But that's amazing. Has a, has a vortex. 905 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:07,240 So I I was almost like going in and like back in time almost 906 00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:08,920 when I was walking down that path. 907 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,080 You know, supposedly, I don't know how true this is, but I've 908 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,520 heard from locals because, you know, growing up in the area, 909 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,360 you, you know, you people live around there. 910 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,080 There's supposedly is a cemetery, there's another lesser 911 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,600 known cemetery in those woods somewhere that's abandoned. 912 00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:29,760 And, you know, people just, you know, hanging out, being 913 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,640 teenagers back in the day, you know, they, you know, whether 914 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,880 they were under the influence of of something while they were 915 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,600 hanging out there, who knows? But, you know, they've reported 916 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,720 that, you know, that cemetery is like super haunted, you know, 917 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:43,280 and that's one of the things I want to do is explore that whole 918 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,400 area, see if I can find that hidden gem of a cemetery that, 919 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,520 you know, people haven't stepped foot on in for in forever. 920 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,040 And Sam, you should know, like for John, his claim to fame, 921 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,680 like the reason he's got a million followers on TikTok is 922 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,360 and, and I, I, I believe this to be true. 923 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,200 He is the one of the first people to start really walking 924 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,040 through cemeteries with a spirit box. 925 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,320 And a lot of people even, and I've investigated and were some 926 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,200 real credible people are like, there's no spirits at cemeteries 927 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,240 for whatever reason. And John has been doing this and 928 00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:18,080 building up a family, you know, some documentation and evidence. 929 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,040 And his fans love it. He also cleans old headstones, 930 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,520 which is like he's, you know, he's as far as I know, the only 931 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,320 person who does. If anybody, if there's anybody 932 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:26,640 else that does it, he did it first. 933 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,440 So he goes. And then that's where he has a 934 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,640 lot of his conversations while he's cleaning headstones. 935 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,080 And some of them will be like cleaning my grave. 936 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,120 Thank you. This is or they're like, get 937 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,560 lost, you know? I even had one of the most the 938 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,280 video wasn't that popular, but one of the most recent videos 939 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,680 that I put out, it was, you know, straight from my live 940 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,040 stream. I got done doing the first. 941 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,400 I do headstones and stages. I let it dry. 942 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:50,840 If I need to hit it again, I will. 943 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,280 Most of the time I don't like to. 944 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,960 I hit it once and you know, wait for it to dry, see if it's 945 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,080 legible. If it's legible, I've done my 946 00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,680 job. You know, that's it. 947 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,800 I'm waiting for it to dry. And the spirit comes through the 948 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:08,320 spirit box clear and says, did I miss the cleaning? 949 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,800 Almost like, you know, like it like an audience, like spirits 950 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,440 at the cemetery, you know, watching me clean these 951 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,080 headstones. So it's wild when that happens. 952 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,640 So I, I actually, I'm in the school, so I got my start in 953 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,280 like going to cemetery. So a lot of, a lot of paranormal 954 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,360 investigators like that's they'll come with like if 955 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,160 they're passionate about investigating, they start in 956 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,080 cemeteries. I whoever says that their 957 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,280 spirits are not in cemeteries. I, I mean, I think that a lot of 958 00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,640 times that the people, the spirits that are there are 959 00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,200 either darker energies that are praying on people like us, they 960 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:48,200 want to like attach to us or so I think darker energies hang out 961 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,400 in cemeteries and not necessarily the ones that are 962 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,320 tricksters. So ones that that are going to 963 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,560 mess with you or spirits that were visiting their loved ones 964 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,200 at the cemetery. So I think that's, that's the 965 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,680 case as well. So I think that. 966 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,800 I listen, recently I got knocked on my ass bad. 967 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,240 Four years I've been walking through cemeteries on social, 968 00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:12,800 you know, social media knocked on my ass. 969 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,560 Badge it. Was pretty funny, I'm not going 970 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,080 to lie. It was a good brat fall too, but 971 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:16,760 it but. Yeah. 972 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,920 And then one thing that I always warn everybody of is when you're 973 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:27,000 at a cemetery and you're visiting your loved ones, do not 974 00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:32,040 run a spirit box. You do not know what is going to 975 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:36,920 come through and try to pretend to be that loved one. 976 00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:41,440 And because you're in a place of grief and you hear things that 977 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,720 might spark some hope, and that can end up very dangerous. 978 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,520 Well, you know what I really like to John about what Sam said 979 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,200 is something we've been talking about because it was when John 980 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,200 first told me his theory, it was like the fractured memories of 981 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,960 the living. And I'm like, well, as far as, 982 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,880 and, and other people mention this to me too, but it's like, 983 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,160 as far as I can tell, nobody remembers their, their grave 984 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:01,760 site. That's not a place you would 985 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,320 remember. But when you're talking about, 986 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,360 it's the spirit of the people visiting their loved ones and 987 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,880 then those memories, right? Those memories, right. 988 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,600 And the memories of the, then those memories could be attached 989 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,960 to them, attached to that there. That starts to make a lot of 990 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,240 sense. You know, when I'm, when I'm 991 00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:22,640 cleaning the headstone, if. That's what these if that's what 992 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,160 it is, if this is what it is, that could make a lot of sense. 993 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:27,880 You know, when I'm cleaning the headstone of a, of a, of a three 994 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,600 month old little girl, you know, she's not going to say thank you 995 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,560 for that. It's always an adult spirit, you 996 00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,400 know, saying thank you for doing that or thank you for, you know, 997 00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:40,280 or, or they even sometimes say that's my daughter, that's my 998 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,760 son. So, yeah, a lot of spirits that 999 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,160 are there are not, you know, they're visiting and. 1000 00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,240 You know, Sam, John sticks to these like in New York too, 1001 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:51,120 there's a lot of older sections of the cemetery. 1002 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,600 These are like Revolutionary War, Civil War era gravestones. 1003 00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,800 And and which is, you know, you often, obviously you say a lot 1004 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,560 and you've said a lot in a lot of your interviews that I've 1005 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,760 listened to and read, you know, how history and haunting are 1006 00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,320 intertwined. And is it like was there? 1007 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,440 Where are some of those? Do you have any of those moments 1008 00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,000 that were especially eerie or emotional for you? 1009 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,520 An investigation with history and haunting as your any of your 1010 00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,280 books, Sleepy Hollow or anywhere. 1011 00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,200 Else words, Sam, true words that that those words that you, that 1012 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,080 you say in your that is the truth. 1013 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,680 You know, I stick by that too, so. 1014 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,240 Yeah, I mean for for me, like a a lot of every book is sort of 1015 00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:33,560 like a, a new adventure. So like those stories always 1016 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,240 emerge and pretty much every book that I've written, I, I 1017 00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:38,720 have written a book on haunted cemeteries. 1018 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:41,640 And to me, like a lot, a lot of the haunted cemeteries were, 1019 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:47,200 were very profound, but there was, there was some in Plymouth, 1020 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,120 MA. So there's the, the, the 1021 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:55,280 cemetery there that's right by like the square. 1022 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,320 So there's a lot of Native American that was actually where 1023 00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,240 the first Pilgrim House was built. 1024 00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:04,200 So like that. So it's a really important part 1025 00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,520 piece of land. But I actually was encountering 1026 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:12,920 a a young man who passed away. He got hit by lightning in, in 1027 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,920 in the cemetery and I started picking him up as a clairvoyant. 1028 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,680 And oddly, his mother was in the cemetery while I was there going 1029 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,200 on the tour. And we we started talking about 1030 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:29,560 about him and yeah, so like the stuff that you expect, it turns 1031 00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,800 into something else. And I almost did a gallery 1032 00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:36,240 reading for this woman with her son who who was who was his 1033 00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:37,920 spirit was coming through in the cemetery. 1034 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,080 Cool. That is pretty wild, yeah. 1035 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:43,920 Absolutely. How did he feel about that? 1036 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,040 She she's. Like I was nailing it and I'm 1037 00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:48,840 like, why am I? I mean, yes, you get a lot of 1038 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:53,240 historical stories that happen, but you get stuff that's more 1039 00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:55,200 modern as well. So the fact that I was able to, 1040 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,120 his name's Wolf, like that's what he went by and he almost 1041 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,240 kind of shamanic in his approach. 1042 00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:04,080 But he was a young man, so he was in his 20s and I started 1043 00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,440 just picking his energy up and finding feathers and all sorts 1044 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,000 of things like offerings from Wolf. 1045 00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:12,760 And his mother was in the cemetery, oddly at the at the 1046 00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:14,960 same time. And she just, I was like doing 1047 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,640 like a gallery, impromptu gallery reading for her. 1048 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,760 And yeah, she, I mean, she was really grateful that I was able 1049 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,680 to communicate with him and tell her his story. 1050 00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,920 And then he's still there. He's still there because he, 1051 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:30,120 he's in a good way. So he's almost like the 1052 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,640 protector of the land and. What's cool about that is it's 1053 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,160 so personal. Yeah, that's such a personal 1054 00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:37,680 experience. And as you said, there's a big 1055 00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,880 history there. But now here's this more modern 1056 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,480 micro history of this man and you know, his his mother is 1057 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,280 there just that. I mean, that's awesome. 1058 00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,240 Yeah. And so I those to me are the are 1059 00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,480 the ones that that I remember the most. 1060 00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:59,520 But yeah, like especially with the American Revolution, I had 1061 00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,760 this is kind of funny, but I was doing, I was following Benjamin 1062 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,200 Franklin. So I was trying to find Benjamin 1063 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,840 Franklin's ghost. So I went to all the locations 1064 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,240 associated with Benjamin Franklin. 1065 00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:13,040 Then I go, this is from in my book, Ghosts, the Ghosts of the 1066 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,080 American Revolution. And so I go to what was this the 1067 00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,240 foundation of Benjamin Franklin's house? 1068 00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,760 And I was looking, you know, there was like this underground 1069 00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,080 prebby and I'm like, what's that? 1070 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:30,040 And and I heard behind me this voice say, that's where George 1071 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:31,720 Washington took a dump. Like that's what? 1072 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,800 And I'm like, what? There was nobody there. 1073 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,280 And and so if you know Benjamin Franklin, he had a potty valve. 1074 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,680 So that was to me, like my I was looking for Benjamin Franklin 1075 00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:42,560 all day. Literally. 1076 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,320 Literally in this case. I think I yeah, I think I found 1077 00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:45,640 him. Wow. 1078 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,080 That is amazing and that's great too, because you know what that 1079 00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,960 also shows me that also speaks to this idea that, you know, 1080 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,000 look, they're they were people. They made they made, you know, 1081 00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:01,000 they made toilet humor. Like every guy thinks it's funny 1082 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:02,720 forever. I mean, it's just sort of the 1083 00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:07,760 way it goes, right? You know, Sam, I want this has 1084 00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,760 been an unbelievable. You gave us an incredible amount 1085 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,360 of time. It's been unbelievably 1086 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,320 informative. You're a wealth of knowledge. 1087 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,080 And I want to just before we tag off, I'm wondering if you were 1088 00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,480 going to give me, if you were going to hear about what John's 1089 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,400 experience, what he's able to do, what would you say? 1090 00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,720 What would be the first thing you would do with this guy to 1091 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,640 see if he's got if he's actually a medium of some kind? 1092 00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,000 How should we test this guy out to see if he's a medium? 1093 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,120 Well, here's the here's. The name or. 1094 00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,120 Something yeah. So I I'm a strong believer with 1095 00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:43,000 mediumship that it's a it's like a muscle that you have to work. 1096 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,600 So as far as like testing John, I that's a lot of pressure. 1097 00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,480 I've I've been put under that I've been vetted myself where 1098 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,280 they're like, oh, if you're a real medium, you know, you you 1099 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,200 should like what's my name? I'm horrible with names. 1100 00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,680 So so I expect you, you know, John, to be able to pick it up. 1101 00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:04,800 I think for me like just like. Just trusting that everybody has 1102 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,400 those abilities and you can use, you can tap into them and work 1103 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,040 that muscle. And it sounds like by doing your 1104 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,920 live streaming, you are tapping into that muscle. 1105 01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,440 And so I, I believe you. I don't, we don't have to like 1106 01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:18,760 vet you. I believe that you're tapping 1107 01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,360 into something, John. You think that's true? 1108 01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:21,960 You think everyone has this ability? 1109 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,080 I think that people people have it. 1110 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,240 Some have it more intense than others. 1111 01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:31,280 I think women are more intuitive naturally than men, but I agree, 1112 01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:36,760 But I do feel like it's some men, especially if you have, you 1113 01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,040 know, like if like Native American, like the whole Native 1114 01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,960 American lineage that everyone says that, but that does that 1115 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,000 does kind of come true, But people have ties to Native 1116 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,200 Americans. But I just I, I feel like that 1117 01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,680 we all have have some abilities. Whether or not you choose to 1118 01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,160 listen to them is up to you. You know, I always, I always say 1119 01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,760 about women, just on a scientific level, they're more 1120 01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,120 biologically advanced than US men. 1121 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,200 They, they really are. So there, there's a lot more 1122 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:10,560 women that have these abilities. I personally don't think I have 1123 01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,680 any abilities. I think it's more in my 1124 01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,000 methodology. I think it's more in how I, I, 1125 01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,360 you know, logically analyze each situation. 1126 01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:23,760 What causes me to pick what headstones and, you know, go to 1127 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,680 what spots. I just do it, you know, There's 1128 01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,120 no thought. It's like, you know, I will get 1129 01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:30,480 it. Like it's more randomized. 1130 01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,480 Maybe it's not, you know. So that's a, that's a form of 1131 01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,520 mediumship. Again, everybody's different 1132 01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,120 levels. I'm advanced obviously, but I 1133 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,680 feel like that I like to work with people like you because I 1134 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,320 really feel like you validate with what, what I'm picking up. 1135 01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,320 And so that, and that's, that's even though you're not a medium 1136 01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:53,600 per SE, but you're, you know it, it works well with what I do. 1137 01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:58,120 I like to call myself a a a a parent nature documenter. 1138 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,880 Here's what I like to call, you know. 1139 01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:02,240 It is. It's a great. 1140 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:04,280 I like the word parent nature a lot by the way. 1141 01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:09,360 Listen, your your work it, it's Sleepy Hollow, especially with 1142 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:13,400 the Tarrytown estate is awesome. The fact that you've had 1143 01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,000 experiences there that are similar to the things that I 1144 01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,240 pick up, you know, and we, we didn't know each other before 1145 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:21,600 this. We didn't know that, you know, I 1146 01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,880 either of us, they existed, right? 1147 01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:25,720 You know, that's the beauty part of it. 1148 01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,680 Like, I think that's wild and I think it's very interesting. 1149 01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,880 Sam, we'll be Sam. What's next for you? 1150 01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,200 What are you working on now? What's your next project? 1151 01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,600 Well, I just want to add, like, I, I think the, the spirits 1152 01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,040 bring people like us together for a reason. 1153 01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,600 And so I want to go, I do want to go to the cottage at the 1154 01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,320 Tarrytown house to stay with you and to, to, to confront Lilith. 1155 01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,680 I want to know about this woman. That would be. 1156 01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:50,560 I'd love that. That'd be phenomenal. 1157 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,120 So I have a couple things that I'm working on currently. 1158 01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,160 I'm working on a book called Haunted Castles of New England. 1159 01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,320 People are like they're castles in New England. 1160 01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:00,640 Yes, there are castles in New England. 1161 01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,120 So that's been a lot of fun. I'm actually going to be working 1162 01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,280 on a book on haunted castles of New York probably next year. 1163 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,080 So I'll probably be in your neck of the woods, John, to be able 1164 01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:12,480 to go to some of the castles like Lyndhurst Castle and other 1165 01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,840 castles, Bannerman Castle in the Hudson Valley. 1166 01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,960 I, I also curated an anthology called the Haunted Travels 1167 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:24,280 anthology and that's coming out on Friday the 13th in June. 1168 01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,760 So that's a collection of up and coming writers and some 1169 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:30,960 established writers and it they went, we went all over the 1170 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:35,040 country chronicling similar stories to, you know, like, like 1171 01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:39,600 you experienced in Sleepy Hollow and looking for stories for next 1172 01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,120 volume, which is coming out next year. 1173 01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,320 So maybe you could do a story on your experience and buck out the 1174 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,760 road or also a Terry Townhouse estate. 1175 01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:50,560 Yeah, sure. Of course. 1176 01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:52,040 Yeah, that'd be awesome. You have. 1177 01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,920 To sit down and actually focus John and write it right out of 1178 01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,400 the story, that's like you have to find a minute in your day. 1179 01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,040 Cannot get me. And like, get your ADD and get 1180 01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:05,080 get your ass straight down and start typing out your your 1181 01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,200 life's work. You know what I mean? 1182 01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,040 That'll be that's a whole other thing. 1183 01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,720 It's like, but you know, the stories are great. 1184 01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:17,520 Sam, thank you so much for for really honoring us with your 1185 01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,640 presence on this as we build this this project up and really. 1186 01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:22,080 Thank you. Thank you. 1187 01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:23,800 Amazing. It's amazing. 1188 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:25,520 I mean, it is. There's something wild about. 1189 01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,920 There's something going on. You know, we had Dan Sturgis on. 1190 01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:35,920 His episode drops next week. He's a paranormal investigator 1191 01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,680 out of New York. And he brought up this point 1192 01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,280 that was so that I thought was so wonderful, which which was, 1193 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,560 you know, it's like it really in the in the, in the scheme of the 1194 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,200 world, we just figured out what lightning was when we created 1195 01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,280 high speed cameras, which is not that long ago to see how it 1196 01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,920 actually formed. It's like there's so much we 1197 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:53,480 don't know and we're just not there yet. 1198 01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,360 You know what I mean in terms of what we're doing, but getting 1199 01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,360 different perspective of people who are on the ground, who are 1200 01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,760 doing it, who are writing it, who are experiencing it, finding 1201 01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,440 those things that corroborate each other's stories. 1202 01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:09,640 It freaks me out a lot. A lot. 1203 01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,000 I'm not going to lie, it really does. 1204 01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:18,960 But it's very fun and it's very interesting to see what what 1205 01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,720 that all means and where it could potentially be going as 1206 01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:25,280 technology advances or these kind of studies advance. 1207 01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:29,880 So your contribution to it and to this whole genre is 1208 01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,160 unbelievably helpful and wonderful to read and follow. 1209 01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:36,200 So again, Sam, thank you so much. 1210 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:37,680 I I. Appreciate it. 1211 01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,440 Really, thank you. And there are no accidents in 1212 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,600 the paranormal, so I felt like that we were meant to be to 1213 01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:45,640 talk. I like the way you think. 1214 01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:49,600 I like the way you think, Sam. Definitely Sam. 1215 01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,960 Thank you again. Thank you for joining us. 1216 01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,280 Thank you guys. Bye bye. 1217 01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,880 Sam is gone, John. That was that was pretty wild. 1218 01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,160 Yeah, that was cool. He's awesome. 1219 01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,400 Smart, you know, he's, he's got a real good perspective on 1220 01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,760 things. He also has a very He also seems 1221 01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:13,360 to be very unique as far as his view on the paranormal. 1222 01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,640 It's very journalistic. You know what I know that's what 1223 01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,000 he's, you know what he's done, He did for years, he said. 1224 01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,760 But it's very journalistic. Like, I know he says he worries 1225 01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,320 about mixing his clairvoyancy sometimes and whatnot, but that 1226 01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,800 book that, you know, the book he wrote about Sleepy Hollow was 1227 01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:34,920 very journalistic that the whole conversation he had with us, you 1228 01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:36,440 know, that's right. Very. 1229 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,120 I loved him. He was awesome. 1230 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:40,720 And everybody look, you know, the book is called Ghosts of 1231 01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,960 Sleepy Hollow, Haunts of the Headless Horseman by Sam 1232 01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,160 Beltrusus. I'll have a link of this in my 1233 01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:51,280 bio and in my link tree. It's so good that my ADHD 1234 01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,560 personality was able to go right through it. 1235 01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,000 It's the fastest book John's ever read. 1236 01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:59,960 He hasn't read a book and learned that didn't have 1237 01:06:59,960 --> 01:07:02,240 pictures in it for so long, but this had some good pictures and 1238 01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,560 once you might recognize even from John's lives if you go and 1239 01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:09,240 see it. Listen, guys, thank you so much 1240 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,400 for listening to Splintered Spirits and for watching. 1241 01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:15,800 Be sure to like subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. 1242 01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:18,560 There's been another wonderful episode. 1243 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:20,160 Everybody. Thank you so much. 1244 01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:23,560 This is Splintered Spirits. Until next time.