Another spirit is being made. That's it.
Another spirit is being made. Gary, what is going on?
Welcome, welcome everybody. And you know, welcome to
Splintered Spirits, the podcast hosted by me, Gary and my nephew
John Santa from Santa Paranormal, where we try to
answer the question, what are spirits by exploring all types
of spirit communication theories and beliefs.
And really the goal here is, you know, to as you know, John, as
we're trying to see how these different theories and beliefs
fit into your theory of what spirits are.
And spirits, as you know, or as if you're new to the podcast,
you'll know that John believes spirits are the fractured
memories of the living that somehow get attached to the
energy dispersed from our bodies when we pass.
Did I get that right? Pretty much.
I pretty much got it down, I
think. I think I got.
It down. I think I know how to how to
sell it. John, today we got a really
special guest. Today we're taking another step
forward on this journey with one of the most prolific voices in
paranormal research, Sam Baltrusus.
Sam is the author of 18 books on ghosts, hauntings, and historic
spirits, including Ghosts of Salem, Haunted Boston Harbor,
and Ghosts of the American Revolution.
He's been featured on some of the most chilling shows in the
genre, The Curse of Lizzie Borden, a Haunting Most
Terrifying Places, Haunted Towns, Paranormal Night Shift,
History's Most Haunted and Fright Club with the Ghost
Brothers, and Jack Osborne. A historian by training and a
clairvoyant by nature, Sam blends meticulous research with
first hand spiritual encounters. He's taught spirit communication
across the country, spoken at paranormal conferences and
libraries nationwide, and even appeared in the acclaimed
documentary The House in Between Two.
Whether he's tracing ancestral hauntings or channeling
overlooked spirits from the past, Sam's work goes beyond
ghost stories. It's about giving voice to those
long silence, which is something you like to do when you go to
these cemeteries and try to hear what they have to say and
document. And today, that voice brings us
to 1 of America's most iconic haunted landscapes, Sleepy
Hollow. This is a regular haunt for many
spirits, legends, lore, and even our own John Santa.
His latest book, Ghosts of Sleepy Hollow, explores the real
stories behind the legend, the energy that lingers in the
shadows of the Hudson Valley, and why this sleepy little town
may be one of the most spiritually charged places in
the country. And guys, I will have a link to
this book in my bio where you will be able to see it.
Ladies and gentlemen, we want to welcome Sam to the podcast.
Can you hear us OK, Sam? Yeah, I can hear.
You guys, can you hear me? I can.
OK, you're loud and clear, Sam. Thank you for joining us today.
I'm really, I'm really grateful to be here.
So yeah, I, when you described the, your take on spirits, we're
very similar actually. So like, so I'm excited to talk
about what your theory is and what my theory is.
We could maybe work together on that.
Oh, well, this is great, Sam, because the first question I
always have for any of our guests is this very thing.
Sam, what do you think spirits are and what happens when we
die? Yeah, so like the, I always say
a, a ghost has history demanding to be remembered.
So my approach really with spirits, it's not disembodied
souls, however, you know, as as a medium, as a clairvoyant, I
have encountered that. But my my experience has been
more of a psychic imprint of soul fragments.
So if there was a trauma at a location, it's going to
psychically imprint itself on the land.
And when you talked about splintered spirits, I'm like,
that's exactly what I think as well.
And that's actually more of a shamanic or shamanic approach to
the paranormal. So, and part of my job as
someone that works as a clairvoyant is to tell their
story so we can do what's called soul retrieval and to bring
those pieces together to make a whole.
You're going to have to forgive me because I'm a big noob.
When you you use the word clairvoyant, you use is that
separate from medium or is it is it a faction of a medium or is
it a medium? So clairvoyant is just an
umbrella term for seeing So I actually see spirits, but it
does shift for me. So I go from seeing spirits to a
clear cognizant, which is actually just knowing stuff.
And then also there's, there's different Claire's.
So a clairvoyant for me is kind of like my primary Clair, and so
that's, that is clear seeing. But what's different with a
clear clear avoidance versus clairaudience?
Clairaudience is you actually get to just in your ear, so
sometimes it's like playing charades with a ghost.
Gotcha. Sam, how did you know?
Like when was your, when did you first realize you had this
clairvoyant ability? What happened?
So I, my whole story, it starts when I was younger, I, my dad
was in the Navy. We, I grew up in Florida.
So Florida, Chicago, my parents divorced and I moved back to
Florida. After the divorce, I started
having experiences going back to my granddaddy's home in Florida.
And he actually passed and I would have conversations with
him and it turns out I was sleeping in the room that he he
slept in at Old House. How old were you?
I was like 6-6 to 8, so that that whole that whole period was
sort of my experience with with spirits and communicating with
my granddaddy. But then it started getting
darker really quick. I had a visitation when I was
around 8 years old, what looked like a man wearing a hat with
red glowing eyes. My sister was in the room with
me and that scarred me for for many, many years to the point
where I was terrified of the spirit realm and communicating
with ghosts. I worked as a journalist for
about 20 years until I sort of it started writing paranormal
themed books. And then that's when the doors
reopened for me and I started re examining my gifts and my
abilities. And I've worked that muscle to
the point where now I actually teach.
I have a group called Spirit Squad and we I work with up and
coming mediums to so they won't make the mistakes that I've made
in the past. First of all, you have every
right to be terrified. If I saw something with red
glowing eyes as a child, that would change probably the course
of of my life in a giant way. You know, you know, what he's
describing is a, is a, is a very common dark manifestation.
Many people have that top hat manifestation, including my own
mother and your sister. So that that must have been
terrifying for you. Yeah, so the the man with a hat,
and we can't say hat man because that's actually trademarked,
but. Is it really?
Wow, that's funny, but. But yeah, so I I always have
interpreted it as it's not the same manifestation that
everybody else is seeing. I strongly feel this is after
years of years of like trying to communicate with it and
understanding like what is trying to tell me.
It's more of a watcher. It has it, it appears before
something bad is about to happen.
So when my biological father passed away, I saw him again as
an adult. When I saw when my stepfather
passed, I saw him as well. So he's almost become like a
harbinger for me. And I, I mean, I've been told by
other mediums that he's with me unfortunately a lot.
So he kind of like looks out for me.
So I actually view him as a family member, but that's not
how my, that's not my first impression.
I was terrified as a kid. As an adult I've seen him again,
but I also have maybe more of a empathy toward him compared to
what I did when I was younger. Do you find, you know, with this
history that like of of how it started in Florida and now being
a part of New England, is there a change in any sort of like
that sort of spirituality or or what you're finding in spirits
as you move or you know, it is the backdrop different?
Was the openness in Florida different than in bought than in
New England? Or was it all just part of the
same growth? Well, my part of Florida was the
Bible Belt portion, so it was right called Pensacola, FL and
it's right by Alabama. And so I grew up with that.
My gifts were from the devil. And in fact, my whole family
were kind of similar in a sense that they had gifts as well.
And they tried to hide it because of the just because of
the region. So when I went to New England,
it was almost like a liberation. I felt like I was surrounded by
history and I've always been kind of called to New England.
So I went to College in the 90s to and out of the blue, it was
almost like I was called to go there.
And it turns out years later after my mother did research
that we have ties to New England.
So I think, and getting back to even the man with a hat, I
strongly feel that he's a family member from New England
actually, because he's wearing a Pilgrim hat and there's
something worse about him that is not the typical manifestation
that everybody else sees. I feel like it's my personal
hat, man. Sure.
Yeah. Personal hat, man.
Yeah, those repressed pilgrims, I can see why they're so upset
with everybody, by the way, when they come through.
Sam, when's the last time you saw the the man with the the red
eyes and the hat? Yeah, so he actually appeared
right before. So I had a situation that kind
of ties in the ghost of Sleepy Hollow.
I was doing one last story, which is the bronze lady of
Sleepy Hollow cemetery going there is a whole legend that if
you piss her off, then she'll do something like, you know, like
drop a tree on your Camaro, which was, you know, something
that happened in the 70s to this lady.
But my friend April and I went to the cemetery and I ended.
So we were taking selfies and my friend April's from Jersey.
So she was like, see, I'm think of we're taking photos and I'm
like, April, you can't disrespect the bronze lady.
And she's like, oh, she thought I was hocus pocus.
I thought I was hocus pocus, just urban legend.
And then stuff like, so I dropped what a gross quartz cuz
I carry rocks with me when I go on investigations.
And I thought I dropped my rose quartz.
So I, I pick it up from the grounds thinking that, that it
was mine, but actually wasn't mine.
And then for a whole month I have visitations like a woman
screaming and things associated with what I think was the bronze
lady. So we apparently pissed off the
bronze lady. And so I, about a month later, I
was about to the point where I was actually writing the section
on the bronze lady in my book goes to Sleepy Hollow.
And then I saw him kind of come through the wall and I'm like,
no, no, no, no, you're not allowed here.
And so he went kind of went back and to into wherever he went.
And then the following day there was a fire that destroyed my
apartment and there was water damage.
So I lost all my research. So years and years of research
was lost in the fire. But it was the, so it was
actually not a fire that destroyed my apartment.
It was the water from the apartment, water damage, water
damage and it destroyed everything.
And so as I was kind of, you know, the following day after,
well, it was actually a couple of days, so all the water was
drained from my apartment. What was remaining was moldy and
wet and disgusting. And they were like, you have to,
you have to evacuate and get all your stuff out.
So there was no electricity in the apartment.
And then he appears again on my wall.
Almost. What I thought at the time was
he was taking credit for for the fire.
But I think he was letting me know he was trying to warn me.
So. So yeah, that was the last time
I saw him. Wow.
Yeah. How do you, you know, you're
talking about your research and your writing and you're dealing
with this, you know, clairvoyance.
How do you separate your mediumship from your writing and
not bring all of that into it? Or do you want to bring all of
that into it? Like, what's the what's the
difference between being an historian and a clairvoyant when
you're trying to write these books?
It it's really hard. I mean, like, so you kind of you
kind of tapped on the topic. That really has been frustrating
for me. So I worked as a journalist for
many years. I would, I would kind of, I
would say I'm more of a paranormal journalist as opposed
to a historian. My dad was a history teacher.
So I did grow up in that environment.
This is my step dad that was a history teacher.
But but yeah, so it's really hard to kind of like walk the
line. I did kind of know stuff that
other people didn't know as a journalist.
In fact, I kind of use that my abilities along the way
secretly. So I was, I was in the crystal
closet, which is what I call it for many years.
But when I started writing paranormal theme books, it
started to reveal itself and it actually became an asset out in
the field doing paranormal research.
So, so there's a fine line I do when I write my books IA lot of
times I'll even get reviews. They're like, they're like, you
know, how does he know that? And I'm like, because, you know,
I use my, my gifts as a clairvoyant to get the stories
that are often aren't told. And then I then I back it, back
it up with historical research. So if we have things that kind
of work together, and I've have a lot of those, like those
situations that are not covered and not talked about and I'm
able to kind of uncover them using my abilities.
That's actually very similar to how I document.
I use, you know, spirit boxes and other means to document
areas. And then after a while I look up
the history and see if what I've been documenting matches the
history. And you know, more often than
not, it does. Do you have any, do you have any
specifics, Sam, in any of your books where there was like a, a
reinforcement or, or even a contradiction with like what you
were experiencing as a clairvoyant versus what the
history and the lore was you were researching?
I mean, pretty much every book has, has at least one situation
where that happens. A good example for me is
Concord's Colonial end. And so I, in addition to, you
know, I, I'm, I'm an immersion journalist, so I like to
actually put myself in the location for months, sometimes
years while I'm writing the book.
So I, I was working at Concord's colonial and I worked the
overnight shift and I actually wrote a book.
I have it right over here goes to Concord's colonial end and
the whole, and it's supposedly one of the most haunted ends in
the country. And I so I was working on that
book and the whole thing is Room 24 was a makeshift hospital
during the Battle of Lexington and Concord.
And I actually had experiences in that room, but it felt kind
of off to me. And it turns out that that room
was actually not built in 1775, so it didn't serve as a
makeshift hospital. So yeah, it was kind of like me
telling the truth and the thing it doesn't fit in with the lore
that's always associated with with that end.
And so I was I had to basically break the news.
Hey, this actually was not built and the 1700s.
There's no way this could have served as it makes your
hospital. And truthfully, another great
example is so George's Island, one of the first locations that
I visited had an experience. There's a whole a lady in black
that's been reported for many years at George's Island.
And there's a whole story that Melanie Lanier, she was a
Confederate wife. Her her husband was in prison on
on the island and and she was hanged on the island island for
trying to rescue her husband, break him out of prison.
Well, the truth is she never existed.
So things like that, I, I tend to debunk actually folklore are
stories that people think of, think are facts.
Can I ask you guys, Bob and I put this question on both of you
guys. Why?
Because I, I just feel like I see this and this is something
that I've noticed. Why are all the lady ghosts in
white or black? Do they have no other colors
that they can choose from? Like what is that?
Is this like just because of how we're seeing it?
What is the mission on this? Or like what is the reasoning
behind this? It's always the lady in white or
the lady in black. And it's never like, you know,
the woman in red or like, you know, she's wearing like a
lavender. I mean, what's the deal?
Well, I mean, like Salem, there's a leading in blue, so
there are different colors, but I actually talked a lot about
that and goes to Sleepy Hollow. So I used Sleepy Hollow as a, as
a way to kind of, it's almost like a feminist manifesto.
And I talked to Leanna Renee Heber, who wrote a book called A
haunted History of Invisible Women and my friend Alex Matsuo,
who wrote a book on a women in the paranormal.
So I, I actually feel like it's sort of they don't have a name.
So it's almost like marginalizing women in history.
And it's, it's also kind of taking away their identity.
So the, the lady in white, the lady in blue, the lady in black,
it does symbolic, it's symbolic for certain things.
So usually the lady in white is someone like someone wearing a
wedding gown, for example, or the lady in black is somewhat in
mourning, but the colors are significant.
But again, I think it's it's a way to control the narrative
specifically of women. That's, that's, that's, that's
an interesting take on it because.
Yeah, history would. It's funny because, you know, I
have a couple of theories on what what it could be, but
perception is a big one. And you know, one thing that,
you know, humans like to do, we do like to simplify things.
And you know that that, you know, falls along the lines of
what Sam saying. And unfortunately, details,
details are lost. And, you know, it also could be
that, you know, most general normal people, when they see
these, you know, apparitions, these spirits, you know, their
perception only allows them to see a woman in white, you know,
a woman in black. Again, you know, and and going
back into Samuel was saying, saying that's, you know, quite
possibly the reason. Well, look, men have been, men
have been holding down women for how long now, right?
I mean, come on. It's like from just the, you
know, witch trials themselves and Salem to everything else
else. I mean, of course, why not just
break it down and make it even more?
It's a really interesting. It's a really interesting take
on on all of that. Sam in in your studies, when
you're doing your research, I also like to talk about this a
lot because we're going to I'll show you.
I don't know how familiar you are with what John does And and
if you've had a chance to look at his stuff and we'll play some
when we because we're about to get into trying to make this
transition into the Sleepy Hollow talk here.
But it's like John uses a lot of tech is a big part of the
paranormal investigative world these days.
And I'm just curious sort of, you know, what your methods are
when you when you go into the into that side of when you're
wearing that hat, How much do you, how much do you rely on
like EMF or Evps or thermal cameras or spirit boxes versus
your own, you know, clairvoyance?
What do you, you know, or is it a help?
Is it a hindrance? Is it horseshit?
Like, where do you fall on the tech spectrum and where tech is
going, you know, in this, in this study, in this space?
So I personally like tech because it validates with what
I'm what I'm picking up and I like to work in tandem.
So a lot of times, especially if I'm doing a show, I'll be
brought into a location like House in between 2:00 or Curse
the Lizzie Borden, I'll be brought in to do what's called a
psychic sweep. So I'll actually read the
location and then the investigators come in and they
they pick up like Evps or spear box or whatever and they
actually validate. What I pick up or so it, it
works in tandem. So I do actually love working
with the more the tech side because it actually it validates
with what what I'm getting. I also like to work with other
mediums, which is not the norm. A lot of times mediums don't
like to work together, but I like it for validation.
And I'll be honest with you, I have a lot of self doubt
sometimes. So I, I'll go in and really
question what I'm picking up, especially if it's something
that, you know, for a house in between 2:00, I picked up that
there was a lynching on the property.
And that doesn't, there's no, I mean, I didn't even know where I
was going. They dropped me off.
They're like, you can't use your dowsing rods.
And so I'm, I'm out there and like I'm, this is what I'm
picking up. And it was terrifying for me to
see that on camera, But I was right.
Actually there was a lynching on the property.
And so I guess so that for me, it's just more validation.
It also helps when I have self doubt with with my abilities.
What are dousing rods? Oh, so I actually have a pair
just kind of sitting on the side.
So dousing rods are which sticks that I use them a lot in Salem,
but they were kind of designed to look for water sources, but
mediums use it a lot. Paranormal investigators use
them a lot for yes or no answers, but you can tweak it to
kind of like if you want it to point in a direction, say where
do you want me to go? And it'll it'll point in the
direction where you want to go. I use it to kind of say yes or
no, Are there any spirits in the room?
And then it'll cross and say no right now, which is good because
I'm in my apartment. Right.
But for me, so I just they're just they're copper if you I use
them ones that are charged. I usually have my first pair
actually were charged by a high priestess, which so I actually,
I work a lot with witches, especially in Salem because I
feel like that they, they keep the dark energies away so I can
focus in on the on more of the, of the, the, the lingering
spirits that I want to communicate with.
Got it. You know, I love that you held
those up. I had no idea what those were.
I think I've I think that I've only seen something like that in
like a Bugs Bunny cartoon where there's pointing hangers that
like looking for thing. But you know what I love about
it? It's like, because we get this a
lot and John, and I'm going to, again, I'm going to show you a
video in a second. John uses a lot of, he loses
iPhone apps these days, primarily as he does his
cemetery walks or he goes in a haunted location.
And you get there's a lot of controversy about the apps,
right? And let me make make no mistake,
we're not oblivious to the controversy or the fact that
these things might be programmed in a certain way.
What, as someone new to this, and what I find it when I look
at it is it's like because I have those apps on my phone, but
I don't get the same response that John gets when he's out
there at all. I get the standard thing that
probably everybody gets like, you know, leave here, no run
away. Like that's probably this guy's
getting like some specific names.
He's getting real Q&A. He's getting personalities in
specific locations and his location Geo tracking is off.
So it's like, you know, he's like, oh, if we go there, this
ghost always makes fun of me. And sure enough, the ghost is
calling him an asshole every time we walk in that that room
through the box. That doesn't happen, you know,
and it's like, so there's a long story, but it's it's like when I
look at that, do you feel that those rods, the witch, I love
calling them witch sticks. What a great name witch.
Do do do you feel that that's more about you?
It is as a bet than it is the than it is the it's not the it's
the tool, right. Like I look at the apps as a
tool, you know, and that's a tool.
But it's like if I bought those, I'd hold it around.
I'd probably look like an idiot. And it's like, no, it's not
going to do anything. I I in my belief, but I bet if
you and I would argue that if I've John held it too, it might
work you. Know only problem.
The only reason why I, I never use dowsing rods, and I say this
in my live streams all the time, is the simple fact that my hands
have serious injuries, right? Tendons, ligaments, nerves.
If I held them, they'd be shaking.
They'd be, you know, it'd be my afflictions that are causing
them to move. Not you know, I wouldn't be able
to use the tool properly. Right.
But but I guess it's a long question is how do you feel
about these types of divination tools, you know, is it and is
there anything that you have a go to with other than those or
that you use or like in respect to controversy around it?
That question makes sense. Might be a little.
Underway to say yeah, so I totally 100% agree with you on
Dallas and Ross. I think when I first started I
would actually use them on my tours in Salem.
And so I think people, it was under the impression that the
spirits were moving at them, but I feel like that I'm using them
to tap into my abilities. So it's almost like a, the
validation that I was talking about earlier.
It's sort of like a quick validation of what I'm picking
up because sometimes for me as a clairvoyant, it's not obvious.
And it's, I need something to kind of like say yes or no, like
like, is that are you, you know, are you a male?
And it'll say yes. So it's me kind of like
validating myself. As far as other tools, I, you
know, I just did, I did a workshop or not a workshop, but
a panel where I moderated. So other people use different
divination tools like scrying. I've used Black Mirror scrying
before. I've also have done I'm, I'm not
a big spirit board person personally, because I have seen
those, those stories go awry. People use spirit boards and
they just kind of like all hell breaks loose.
So I kind of stayed away from spirit boards.
However, I really think it's your intention.
If you have intentions to summon a demon, you're going to summon
a demon. But I personally don't use
spirit boards but but scrying works for me.
And scrying could be in a fire, it can be a crystal ball, it
could be a Black Mirror. I actually use Black Mirror
scrying a lot. And that's the way where you
kind of focus on the mirror and you get kind of again, use your
clairvoyance to have a story unfold.
Use an Obsidian Black Mirror. Yeah, I use AI do have an
Obsidian Black Mirror. But I also I had one that was
made my friend Lisa. So I like when people make
things for me because it to me it's more authentic.
And it was kind of like done from a mirror she got at the
Dollar Tree, you know, So it doesn't have to be this fancy
thing to be able to to get what you need need done.
That's wild. That is OK.
But but again, it's, it's really about an extension of you.
Because see, look, John makes fun of me all the time because I
think, I think he's some sort of like a tech medium.
That's my personal belief. He would say his joke is he's
not a medium. He's an extra double XL.
But it's like that's the that's the bit, that's the dad joke bit
that he's been running with. But it's sort of like, I don't
know how else to explain it. So, you know, I think we, we
could probably have a whole separate conversation on how you
teach mediums because I want to put this guy to the test one of
these days about through through all of this.
But let's let's move on to Sleepy Hollow in particular,
because we're John and I are both from Westchester County.
So Sleepy Hollow is a big part of our life.
And what I loved in your book too, is that and I, and it never
really occurred to me, but so geniuses that the Headless
Horseman really is probably the only true.
They're the first true American monster, Yes, right.
You know, and it's sort of fascinating. 100%.
You know, 100% and, and, and it's like, you know, I think of
when I think the Headless Horseman, my headless, my
Headless Horseman is the Disney one, right?
Like. Ichabod.
Ichabod Crane, right? Like that's where it, you know,
that's the whole thing. So John goes there all the time.
I'm going to show you a quick video, just something like where
John using his spirit box is walking around.
You probably will recognize his place.
So let me jump into it. Hopefully, you know, sometimes
it takes us a little walk, but here's a little video this.
Now look again, it's a door, you know, like at the door open
these sort of words randomized maybe that they are, but why
then? Why now, right when he's
knocking at a door? It just seems this app ain't
that sophisticated, man. If they were these guys who
created would have created Google.
You know what I mean? It's just like there's
something, you know what I mean? It's just not.
It's another level to me that that the the kind of response
that he would get from it. Do you recognize that at all,
that cemetery? I mean, is that is that Sleepy
Hollow cemetery because like truthfully like that like it's
so Sleepy Hollow cemetery. I mean, I don't remember going
to that specific mausoleum or crypts.
It does kind of remind me of the Dark Shadows crypts that was
used. I mean, is there a specific
crypt to it from the? That's that's right by that,
that horseshoe of mausoleums right before you get to what
they consider the Dutch cemetery, you know, the Dutch
graveyard that's so, you know, right where Washington Irving is
buried and his whole family. So that's literally right before
that. So if I would have turned so my
back is basically facing the old Dutch church.
OK, Yeah, I act. Yes.
So that that is right, right next to Washington Irving's
crepes. And so, yeah, I, I spend many,
many afternoons and evenings. You're not supposed to be there
in the night time. So I'll say it was many
afternoons in the cemetery. Right, you know, and look so
Sleepy Hollow, right? It's been romanticized obviously
in a big way thanks to Washington Irving, you know, but
you obviously in the book dive into the into a darker some of
the lesser known haunts. What do you, what do you, what
did you uncover that most people don't know about the areas you
know, the the ghostly history of that area?
What did you find most fascinating that you that you
were excited to reveal? So having written so many books
on Salem, first of all, like writing ghosts of Sleepy Hollow
was so much fun. And so it was a nice I in Salem,
I felt so much guilt associated with the Salem witch trials and
Sleepy Hollow. I didn't because this these are
characters that were fictional. So a lot of the ghosts were
based on fictional stories that were in some, some legends that
were told to Washington Irving. So for me, it was a nice
departure from the darker material that I'm used to.
However, it doesn't mean that Sleepy Hollow isn't any less
haunted. But so as far as the story, my,
my, I started with the Legend of Sleepy Hollow and really focused
on the different stories that were mentioned throughout the,
the text throughout the short story.
I kind of looked into those. And so my, my first, you know,
I, my whole bat, the reason why I chose Sleepy Hollow is because
I lived in New York City for many years and Sleepy Hollow was
my, was my Salem. So it was just a, a way for me
to, an excuse to kind of go back to the area that I love,
especially around Halloween time.
I love it. I love it in October.
And so as far as the locations and the, and the stories I took,
first of all, like there have been reports of a, of a, of a
Headless Horseman ghost. And, and so looking at that,
like where that came from and why would there be a
manifestation, especially since Washington Irving, I wrote the
story when he was in England. So and there and we, you know,
you guys both know that there was a, a actual, a battle of
White Plains where there was a decapitated soldier.
So there was a real headless man or Headless Horseman that
perhaps he did base the towel on, but we're not 100% sure
about that. It may have inspired him, but
it's almost like an amalgam of different stories to tell the
story. So I looked at what he kind of
talked about and why are people still having sightings of the
Headless Horseman even, you know, 200 years later?
And, and it's the course. It was after the book that came
out in the early 1800s or the short story came out in the
1800s. There were multiple reports and
they, they kind of diminished over time.
But I strongly feel they're what I call thought form
manifestations or egregore's. And so just.
About to ask you about it. You stole one of my questions.
Yeah, go ahead. Tell us.
That was my next question.
Because I love this word and I love this concept of
manifestations. Go ahead.
And so for me, Sleepy Hollow is, is full of aggregors and thought
forms and, and, and the culprit is Washington Irving.
He kind of created them. And so an idea of a thought form
and it goes back to the Phillips experiment and it's been around
forever. But that idea that you can
create a ghost to create a manifestation.
And the perfect location to do that is Sleepy Hollow,
especially when the story is rich as the Legend of Sleepy
Hollow. So I think a lot of what's going
on in Sleepy Hollow is either aggregories or thought forms or
other spirits assuming the roles of of these characters to kind
of give them life, if you will. But I do feel like that that the
activity, some of it has been conjured.
So it's like, I mean, to me it sounds like as opposed to like a
poltergeist by definition, right?
Is like sort of like the energy from one person's manifestation,
right? It's a living.
It's from a living person creating this thing.
Whereas an Agrigore would be a mass the mob creation of an
entity right? Does that make sense?
Is that a is that way to dump? Can I just dumb down what you
said? Is that a one way to do it?
It is, and especially when you have a story as popular.
So when you're going to Sleepy Hollow expecting to have an
encounter with a Headless Horseman, you probably will also
tours. I mean, we have in Salem, we
have a lot of aggregores and thaw forms in Salem too, like
the lady in the lady in Blue and we tell the story over and over
again. But The thing is she never
existed. And so the lady in Blue has been
created. There's photos of the lady in
blue. And, and so, so same with Sleepy
Hollow. We have stories like hold of the
witch, Hold of the witch was I kind of talked about and, and
there's a kind of one line that could be pulled of the witch and
the legend of Sleepy Hollow. But then there it was reinforced
in Edward Mayhew Bacon's book in the late 1800s about creating
this whole character, this woman who was a witch.
He lives in the outskirts of Sleepy Hollow, kind of outside
to the Sleeping Hollow Cemetery. And she during the American
Revolution, she fought for her lands and basically turned into
Xena, the warrior Princess. And so what's interesting is
people have reported having experiences withhold of the
witch. There's a there's a greystone in
her honor and she was a created person.
She never existed. You know, you know, wait, wait,
wait, wait. Wait, John, you're telling me
there's a gravestone for somebody there?
There's no body. There's no body in it, is what.
You're saying no, that that's 100% accurate?
Yes. Oh wow, yes.
So listen, my followers will hound me if I do not bring this
up. OK.
I document a place called Buck Out New York.
Oh yeah. OK, and in my documentation the
spirits speak of an entity called the Dula Han.
They will say they will say the Dula Han, the Dula Han.
And in doing research about the Dula Han, you know, it's created
many ways, but one way this entity is created is by losing
its head in battle. And Buck Out Rd., Those woods
are right near where the battle, I think it was October 26th or
28th, 1776, the Battle of White Plains, which is what's
referenced in the Legend of Sleepy Hollow.
And I believe there's a line in the actual Legend of Sleepy
Hollow where he says that, you know, the rider rides back to
the place where he lost his head.
And that would be the woods of Buck Out.
And I, in my documentation, I come across them Speaking of the
headless rider, the headless mercenary, and they say the
Dulhan and it's terrifying. And I don't get, I don't get
scared of things. Like I that's like one thing
about me. I don't get scared.
But that resonates as, you know, Gary said, us being from
Westchester, growing up with that legend of Sleepy, you know,
legend of Sleepy Hollow, that resonates with me.
And it's a terrifying thing to think about that I'll be sitting
at buck out and then all of a sudden I'm going to see that
this horseman, you know? And Sam Buck out Rd.
Is also known for like it's got years and years of horrific
tragedy from, you know, from dealing with you know, the
treatment from slaves to the you know, a woman killing her kids
the legend of that or the the Buck out family, you know,
murdering murders and everything like you'll.
Mary Buck out. Mary buck out.
Cannibals. I mean you it's it's.
So many legends and she's a late.
Isn't there another lady in white over there too?
Yeah, that that's, that's Mary Buck Out, who last three
sessions ago at Buck Out, she actually came through, which was
which was wild. And then last night when I was
at Buck Out last night, they were speaking about her saying,
you know, how she hung herself. And you know, that's pretty
wild. But yeah, the the whole
Dullahan, Headless Horseman, buck out is just it.
It's insane to hear that. First time I heard it, I freaked
out. I had no idea what they were
talking about. You know, I was just like, what
is going on? So it's just and, and reading
your book, which I read, you know, I just figured you'd like
to hear about the Dullahan and, you know, more Ruded legends.
Yeah, I so I I have. So I went to the location at the
Battle of White Plains. So it is right by the road.
Have I explored the road like you have?
No, I haven't, but, and I did do I actually also did a lot of
research. So this conversation kind of
turned me on to the legend of lore associated with I think
it's like a a mile and a half strip, right.
So it's like not a very. Long.
Yeah. About, yeah, about two miles,
yeah. And so I haven't gone like so
close to the location. I will tell you like I felt and
there have been reports of the Headless Horseman over there
there and I'm like, why would there be reports over there?
Not Sleepy Hollow if it's in fact the thought for
manifestation. So I, I, I so it's, so you said
a Dumahan Dullahan. Dullahan, Dullahan.
But it could be both, Sam, because what you're saying makes
perfect sense. It could be both.
It could be the same manifestation, just brought out
differently, you know, through all through everyone's intent,
because mainly that whole, you know, thought form and all that,
that's intent. You know, the same thing that I
use to protect myself when I go to these places, you know, the
same way, you know, other people use their gifts and whatnot.
It could very well be intent. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Well, that said, I always thought like like Sleepy Hollow
or North Tarrytown, as you probably both know, remember it
as that whole area. So even in my book, I kind of go
outside. So I go into like Irvington like
like Sunnyside is. So it's not just Sleepy Hollow,
but for me like the woods between Tarrytown N Tarrytown
and and White Plains. It's so haunted, like that
whole. Area so haunted Sam, real quick.
I loved the part of the book about the Tarrytown estate.
That is another place that I've been documenting.
I've been documenting it for about a year and a half now and
it's that's a wild place. Definitely as far as hauntings
go. A very overlooked place and not
popular in another very haunted spot.
I was when I was reading your book.
I was very excited that you brought that place up.
My followers know it as the cottage because I stay in the
cottage next to Mary Duke's garden.
Statue Garden. Do you do you do you stay in the
Biddle Mansion or do you like where do you stay on the on the.
So I so I stay on the cottage. That's usually where I stay
because right now I'm focusing my documentation at the gardens.
OK. And I will, I am going to be
expanding soon and going to be staying at the estate.
And I'm also working out something with the goose feather
once it closes where I can, you know, also document at the goose
feather. Now, well, well, tell, tell,
tell all of us who all these words that you're saying that
sounds like we're in Middle Earth for a second.
Why don't you tell all of us you don't understand?
Like what are some of the things that you've experienced both of
you, you know, Sam, like in these areas that maybe that you
know that match up that that are in line?
Yeah, so I, I, I always stay at the Tarrytownhouse estate.
So there's the King Mansion, which is where Goose feather, he
was referring to the restaurant. It's a it's a Asian fusion
restaurant. That's amazing, by the way, that
that's in this beautiful white mansion.
And there's a supposedly a woman, a lady in white there as
well, but she has a name. Her name's Sybil and she was a
Sybil King, I think is her name. And Shibakto Mongols, right?
The right. The right.
Yeah. So she's she's sort of the ghost
haunting that location, but this whole N or there's multiple
rooms and multiple wings to it. And then there's a tap like
where you go for breakfast, there's the Biddle mansion and
that's that's what John's talking about.
So there's a another mansion on the same property that to me is
the most haunted. It's it's even more haunted in
the King Mansion. So where I stay is right across
from the Biddle Mansion. Oh.
Wow. That's right near where the
gardens is. Because there's this little it's
the new, I believe it's the newest part of the entire
estate. It was all, it's all stone.
It's a stone cottage that was erected in 1930 and all the
stones came out of the Hudson River to build this place.
And I've, I've always just been, I love it.
You know, it's just like one of those things where that's where
I have to stay. But interesting enough, what
I've documented there so far I can only describe as a succubus
type entity and when it first came through.
I mean, this thing is wild. But when it first you give you
and I are working on the same stuff kind of like we're kind of
it's this is this is really you're you're hitting on stuff
that I've also have had on too. That's so it's and that's that's
so awesome. Oh yeah, this this go I've seen
on on his so you got to understand Sam.
So John is primarily a live influencer like the video I
showed you that comes after. So he'll go live like this is
his full time job. He'll be out there 6/6 to 8
hours a day in various locations live and just streaming, talking
to his community with a spirit box and sometimes and he catches
stuff right as he's documenting, walking around talking.
So when he's at this place, this goes and is it?
Does it have a name? Wasn't it Lilith or something
similar that that's the name you were?
Given so it it and I sighed when it called itself Lilith because
then the implications go, yeah, exactly.
I think this thing was just messing with me, but it called
itself Lilith. This thing hits on me
relentlessly and it's nasty stuff.
And when it first started happening, I didn't understand
why this thing was here when I first started documenting until
I realized just the amount of weddings and parties and the and
the nightlife there. I mean, the open bars outside
from the goose feather and like people are just partying and you
know, there's a lot of sexual energy when it comes to
partying, so. Wait, what you guys, you guys
both shared like a a sign, a look when the name Lilith came
up. What does that mean?
Does that mean something to anybody that.
Yeah, Lilith is sort of like the the God, the goddess of the
underworld. So she, she's a she's a symbol
in, in, in witchcraft. And it's not I, I mean, a lot of
my friends are witches. So I'm, I'm actually not just
the idea that it's presenting itself as Lilith, almost like
the queen of demons almost. And so I, I personally, so can I
just tell you my experience there and.
To hear it, love to hear it. OK, so I kind of getting back to
the bronze lady, I, I stayed there many, many nights and I
woke up at 3:00. I heard what sounded like a fake
crying like like kind of like manufacturer crying.
So it was like, you know, and I'm like, what the hell is that?
And then I go outside because my place I was, I wasn't staying in
the cottage. I was staying actually right
near the middle mansion. I go outside and I see a woman
almost like with big kind of like black hair running up the
hill toward me and like, she's gonna hurt me, you know?
And she was wearing like a nightgown and it kind of looked
like, like dark shadows, like, almost like a, like a vampire
type woman running after me. And and so I was assumed that it
was me pissing off the bronze lady from earlier that day, but
I will never forget that it was a woman.
She was kind of coming after me, and she was kind of sexualized.
So when you said succubus, I'm like, oh, shit.
OK. Yeah, yeah.
And so I want to just, that's why on something that you just
said, when you said that cry, that cry, I picked that up.
I picked that up. And the last time I was actually
at the cottage, there was something that was crying that
way. And I'm, and I'm like, you know,
I'm like, wait a minute, Is Lilith now attacking these
spirits? Because I've even documented
Lilith controlling some of the female and male entities there,
some of the spirits. This is why I work with people
like you because like like this kind of like collaboration is
because I thought I was, I'm like, why is she crying like
that? And and so like having someone
else that has that and that's been, you know, like on video,
it just validates with what I picked up because I was by
myself in my room and there was no one in there to chronicle
that. So I'm glad, I'm grateful that
you have that. Part of me hates the fact that
you have it, because it makes all of this that much more real
in a really terrifying in a real terrifying way that gives me
chills. I I, I knew that we were going
to just the way you describe the estate in your book, I knew that
this was going to be one of my favorite parts of this whole
conversation. And that's just so awesome.
You know, it's, it's, it's a place that nobody knows about.
Like when you really think about it, when you think of haunted
places, yeah, sure, you think of Sleepy Hollow, but you don't
think of the Tarrytown estate. You know, again, it's one of
those lesser known spots that you brought it up in your book,
which is, you know, incredible. It's, you know, Sam, you
mentioned, you know, you talk about spiritual vortexes in, in
Salem. Do you believe Sleepy Hollow has
that or is it more of the to agrigor?
The that, that location, Tarrytown houses date to me
because it's really close to Sunnyside.
So if you if you go and so if you, when you read, when you
read my book. But the journey the book starts
me trying to walk from Tarrytown houses date to Sunnyside.
And on Google, it looked like it was walkable, but it, it really
wasn't walkable. So it's on Halloween night.
I'm walking down this path called Sunnyside Lane.
Cars are darting by me. I go into the back entrance in
the woods behind Sunnyside and I started hearing what sounded
like a horse and I saw these men and wearing kind of like Druid
like cloaks in the woods. And I'm like, Oh my God.
I walked into, I thought I walked into like a time slip and
I went back in time to. And so it turned out they were
actors with this recreation that was happening at Sunnyside.
But that's amazing. Has a, has a vortex.
So I I was almost like going in and like back in time almost
when I was walking down that path.
You know, supposedly, I don't know how true this is, but I've
heard from locals because, you know, growing up in the area,
you, you know, you people live around there.
There's supposedly is a cemetery, there's another lesser
known cemetery in those woods somewhere that's abandoned.
And, you know, people just, you know, hanging out, being
teenagers back in the day, you know, they, you know, whether
they were under the influence of of something while they were
hanging out there, who knows? But, you know, they've reported
that, you know, that cemetery is like super haunted, you know,
and that's one of the things I want to do is explore that whole
area, see if I can find that hidden gem of a cemetery that,
you know, people haven't stepped foot on in for in forever.
And Sam, you should know, like for John, his claim to fame,
like the reason he's got a million followers on TikTok is
and, and I, I, I believe this to be true.
He is the one of the first people to start really walking
through cemeteries with a spirit box.
And a lot of people even, and I've investigated and were some
real credible people are like, there's no spirits at cemeteries
for whatever reason. And John has been doing this and
building up a family, you know, some documentation and evidence.
And his fans love it. He also cleans old headstones,
which is like he's, you know, he's as far as I know, the only
person who does. If anybody, if there's anybody
else that does it, he did it first.
So he goes. And then that's where he has a
lot of his conversations while he's cleaning headstones.
And some of them will be like cleaning my grave.
Thank you. This is or they're like, get
lost, you know? I even had one of the most the
video wasn't that popular, but one of the most recent videos
that I put out, it was, you know, straight from my live
stream. I got done doing the first.
I do headstones and stages. I let it dry.
If I need to hit it again, I will.
Most of the time I don't like to.
I hit it once and you know, wait for it to dry, see if it's
legible. If it's legible, I've done my
job. You know, that's it.
I'm waiting for it to dry. And the spirit comes through the
spirit box clear and says, did I miss the cleaning?
Almost like, you know, like it like an audience, like spirits
at the cemetery, you know, watching me clean these
headstones. So it's wild when that happens.
So I, I actually, I'm in the school, so I got my start in
like going to cemetery. So a lot of, a lot of paranormal
investigators like that's they'll come with like if
they're passionate about investigating, they start in
cemeteries. I whoever says that their
spirits are not in cemeteries. I, I mean, I think that a lot of
times that the people, the spirits that are there are
either darker energies that are praying on people like us, they
want to like attach to us or so I think darker energies hang out
in cemeteries and not necessarily the ones that are
tricksters. So ones that that are going to
mess with you or spirits that were visiting their loved ones
at the cemetery. So I think that's, that's the
case as well. So I think that.
I listen, recently I got knocked on my ass bad.
Four years I've been walking through cemeteries on social,
you know, social media knocked on my ass.
Badge it. Was pretty funny, I'm not going
to lie. It was a good brat fall too, but
it but. Yeah.
And then one thing that I always warn everybody of is when you're
at a cemetery and you're visiting your loved ones, do not
run a spirit box. You do not know what is going to
come through and try to pretend to be that loved one.
And because you're in a place of grief and you hear things that
might spark some hope, and that can end up very dangerous.
Well, you know what I really like to John about what Sam said
is something we've been talking about because it was when John
first told me his theory, it was like the fractured memories of
the living. And I'm like, well, as far as,
and, and other people mention this to me too, but it's like,
as far as I can tell, nobody remembers their, their grave
site. That's not a place you would
remember. But when you're talking about,
it's the spirit of the people visiting their loved ones and
then those memories, right? Those memories, right.
And the memories of the, then those memories could be attached
to them, attached to that there. That starts to make a lot of
sense. You know, when I'm, when I'm
cleaning the headstone, if. That's what these if that's what
it is, if this is what it is, that could make a lot of sense.
You know, when I'm cleaning the headstone of a, of a, of a three
month old little girl, you know, she's not going to say thank you
for that. It's always an adult spirit, you
know, saying thank you for doing that or thank you for, you know,
or, or they even sometimes say that's my daughter, that's my
son. So, yeah, a lot of spirits that
are there are not, you know, they're visiting and.
You know, Sam, John sticks to these like in New York too,
there's a lot of older sections of the cemetery.
These are like Revolutionary War, Civil War era gravestones.
And and which is, you know, you often, obviously you say a lot
and you've said a lot in a lot of your interviews that I've
listened to and read, you know, how history and haunting are
intertwined. And is it like was there?
Where are some of those? Do you have any of those moments
that were especially eerie or emotional for you?
An investigation with history and haunting as your any of your
books, Sleepy Hollow or anywhere.
Else words, Sam, true words that that those words that you, that
you say in your that is the truth.
You know, I stick by that too, so.
Yeah, I mean for for me, like a a lot of every book is sort of
like a, a new adventure. So like those stories always
emerge and pretty much every book that I've written, I, I
have written a book on haunted cemeteries.
And to me, like a lot, a lot of the haunted cemeteries were,
were very profound, but there was, there was some in Plymouth,
MA. So there's the, the, the
cemetery there that's right by like the square.
So there's a lot of Native American that was actually where
the first Pilgrim House was built.
So like that. So it's a really important part
piece of land. But I actually was encountering
a a young man who passed away. He got hit by lightning in, in
in the cemetery and I started picking him up as a clairvoyant.
And oddly, his mother was in the cemetery while I was there going
on the tour. And we we started talking about
about him and yeah, so like the stuff that you expect, it turns
into something else. And I almost did a gallery
reading for this woman with her son who who was who was his
spirit was coming through in the cemetery.
Cool. That is pretty wild, yeah.
Absolutely. How did he feel about that?
She she's. Like I was nailing it and I'm
like, why am I? I mean, yes, you get a lot of
historical stories that happen, but you get stuff that's more
modern as well. So the fact that I was able to,
his name's Wolf, like that's what he went by and he almost
kind of shamanic in his approach.
But he was a young man, so he was in his 20s and I started
just picking his energy up and finding feathers and all sorts
of things like offerings from Wolf.
And his mother was in the cemetery, oddly at the at the
same time. And she just, I was like doing
like a gallery, impromptu gallery reading for her.
And yeah, she, I mean, she was really grateful that I was able
to communicate with him and tell her his story.
And then he's still there. He's still there because he,
he's in a good way. So he's almost like the
protector of the land and. What's cool about that is it's
so personal. Yeah, that's such a personal
experience. And as you said, there's a big
history there. But now here's this more modern
micro history of this man and you know, his his mother is
there just that. I mean, that's awesome.
Yeah. And so I those to me are the are
the ones that that I remember the most.
But yeah, like especially with the American Revolution, I had
this is kind of funny, but I was doing, I was following Benjamin
Franklin. So I was trying to find Benjamin
Franklin's ghost. So I went to all the locations
associated with Benjamin Franklin.
Then I go, this is from in my book, Ghosts, the Ghosts of the
American Revolution. And so I go to what was this the
foundation of Benjamin Franklin's house?
And I was looking, you know, there was like this underground
prebby and I'm like, what's that?
And and I heard behind me this voice say, that's where George
Washington took a dump. Like that's what?
And I'm like, what? There was nobody there.
And and so if you know Benjamin Franklin, he had a potty valve.
So that was to me, like my I was looking for Benjamin Franklin
all day. Literally.
Literally in this case. I think I yeah, I think I found
him. Wow.
That is amazing and that's great too, because you know what that
also shows me that also speaks to this idea that, you know,
look, they're they were people. They made they made, you know,
they made toilet humor. Like every guy thinks it's funny
forever. I mean, it's just sort of the
way it goes, right? You know, Sam, I want this has
been an unbelievable. You gave us an incredible amount
of time. It's been unbelievably
informative. You're a wealth of knowledge.
And I want to just before we tag off, I'm wondering if you were
going to give me, if you were going to hear about what John's
experience, what he's able to do, what would you say?
What would be the first thing you would do with this guy to
see if he's got if he's actually a medium of some kind?
How should we test this guy out to see if he's a medium?
Well, here's the here's. The name or.
Something yeah. So I I'm a strong believer with
mediumship that it's a it's like a muscle that you have to work.
So as far as like testing John, I that's a lot of pressure.
I've I've been put under that I've been vetted myself where
they're like, oh, if you're a real medium, you know, you you
should like what's my name? I'm horrible with names.
So so I expect you, you know, John, to be able to pick it up.
I think for me like just like. Just trusting that everybody has
those abilities and you can use, you can tap into them and work
that muscle. And it sounds like by doing your
live streaming, you are tapping into that muscle.
And so I, I believe you. I don't, we don't have to like
vet you. I believe that you're tapping
into something, John. You think that's true?
You think everyone has this ability?
I think that people people have it.
Some have it more intense than others.
I think women are more intuitive naturally than men, but I agree,
But I do feel like it's some men, especially if you have, you
know, like if like Native American, like the whole Native
American lineage that everyone says that, but that does that
does kind of come true, But people have ties to Native
Americans. But I just I, I feel like that
we all have have some abilities. Whether or not you choose to
listen to them is up to you. You know, I always, I always say
about women, just on a scientific level, they're more
biologically advanced than US men.
They, they really are. So there, there's a lot more
women that have these abilities. I personally don't think I have
any abilities. I think it's more in my
methodology. I think it's more in how I, I,
you know, logically analyze each situation.
What causes me to pick what headstones and, you know, go to
what spots. I just do it, you know, There's
no thought. It's like, you know, I will get
it. Like it's more randomized.
Maybe it's not, you know. So that's a, that's a form of
mediumship. Again, everybody's different
levels. I'm advanced obviously, but I
feel like that I like to work with people like you because I
really feel like you validate with what, what I'm picking up.
And so that, and that's, that's even though you're not a medium
per SE, but you're, you know it, it works well with what I do.
I like to call myself a a a a parent nature documenter.
Here's what I like to call, you know.
It is. It's a great.
I like the word parent nature a lot by the way.
Listen, your your work it, it's Sleepy Hollow, especially with
the Tarrytown estate is awesome. The fact that you've had
experiences there that are similar to the things that I
pick up, you know, and we, we didn't know each other before
this. We didn't know that, you know, I
either of us, they existed, right?
You know, that's the beauty part of it.
Like, I think that's wild and I think it's very interesting.
Sam, we'll be Sam. What's next for you?
What are you working on now? What's your next project?
Well, I just want to add, like, I, I think the, the spirits
bring people like us together for a reason.
And so I want to go, I do want to go to the cottage at the
Tarrytown house to stay with you and to, to, to confront Lilith.
I want to know about this woman. That would be.
I'd love that. That'd be phenomenal.
So I have a couple things that I'm working on currently.
I'm working on a book called Haunted Castles of New England.
People are like they're castles in New England.
Yes, there are castles in New England.
So that's been a lot of fun. I'm actually going to be working
on a book on haunted castles of New York probably next year.
So I'll probably be in your neck of the woods, John, to be able
to go to some of the castles like Lyndhurst Castle and other
castles, Bannerman Castle in the Hudson Valley.
I, I also curated an anthology called the Haunted Travels
anthology and that's coming out on Friday the 13th in June.
So that's a collection of up and coming writers and some
established writers and it they went, we went all over the
country chronicling similar stories to, you know, like, like
you experienced in Sleepy Hollow and looking for stories for next
volume, which is coming out next year.
So maybe you could do a story on your experience and buck out the
road or also a Terry Townhouse estate.
Yeah, sure. Of course.
Yeah, that'd be awesome. You have.
To sit down and actually focus John and write it right out of
the story, that's like you have to find a minute in your day.
Cannot get me. And like, get your ADD and get
get your ass straight down and start typing out your your
life's work. You know what I mean?
That'll be that's a whole other thing.
It's like, but you know, the stories are great.
Sam, thank you so much for for really honoring us with your
presence on this as we build this this project up and really.
Thank you. Thank you.
Amazing. It's amazing.
I mean, it is. There's something wild about.
There's something going on. You know, we had Dan Sturgis on.
His episode drops next week. He's a paranormal investigator
out of New York. And he brought up this point
that was so that I thought was so wonderful, which which was,
you know, it's like it really in the in the, in the scheme of the
world, we just figured out what lightning was when we created
high speed cameras, which is not that long ago to see how it
actually formed. It's like there's so much we
don't know and we're just not there yet.
You know what I mean in terms of what we're doing, but getting
different perspective of people who are on the ground, who are
doing it, who are writing it, who are experiencing it, finding
those things that corroborate each other's stories.
It freaks me out a lot. A lot.
I'm not going to lie, it really does.
But it's very fun and it's very interesting to see what what
that all means and where it could potentially be going as
technology advances or these kind of studies advance.
So your contribution to it and to this whole genre is
unbelievably helpful and wonderful to read and follow.
So again, Sam, thank you so much.
I I. Appreciate it.
Really, thank you. And there are no accidents in
the paranormal, so I felt like that we were meant to be to
talk. I like the way you think.
I like the way you think, Sam. Definitely Sam.
Thank you again. Thank you for joining us.
Thank you guys. Bye bye.
Sam is gone, John. That was that was pretty wild.
Yeah, that was cool. He's awesome.
Smart, you know, he's, he's got a real good perspective on
things. He also has a very He also seems
to be very unique as far as his view on the paranormal.
It's very journalistic. You know what I know that's what
he's, you know what he's done, He did for years, he said.
But it's very journalistic. Like, I know he says he worries
about mixing his clairvoyancy sometimes and whatnot, but that
book that, you know, the book he wrote about Sleepy Hollow was
very journalistic that the whole conversation he had with us, you
know, that's right. Very.
I loved him. He was awesome.
And everybody look, you know, the book is called Ghosts of
Sleepy Hollow, Haunts of the Headless Horseman by Sam
Beltrusus. I'll have a link of this in my
bio and in my link tree. It's so good that my ADHD
personality was able to go right through it.
It's the fastest book John's ever read.
He hasn't read a book and learned that didn't have
pictures in it for so long, but this had some good pictures and
once you might recognize even from John's lives if you go and
see it. Listen, guys, thank you so much
for listening to Splintered Spirits and for watching.
Be sure to like subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
There's been another wonderful episode.
Everybody. Thank you so much.
This is Splintered Spirits. Until next time.