1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,760 But this is a build up. Sure. 2 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:03,320 No. Shit like this, you know, 3 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:04,920 there's. All these, it's all these little 4 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,800 mobiles, yeah, added up. To it's like, it's like a ban, 5 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,280 right? Oh, we're gonna here's the 6 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:11,960 tension, tension, tension with these two. 7 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,920 Where's the blowout? Oh dude, I I get it that I'm 8 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,360 still. But it but it doesn't stop 9 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,840 there, it walks by again. Well, clearly it doesn't, but. 10 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:33,360 Wait, there's more. Hey everybody, do us a quick 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,120 favor and hit follow and smash that like or subscribe button 12 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,640 wherever you're listening right now. 13 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,240 It'll help us keep getting great guests and make it so you don't 14 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,960 miss the next episode. Now on with the show. 15 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,280 Welcome to Splintered Spirits, the podcast hosted by me, Gary 16 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,120 and my nephew John Santa from Santa Paranormal, where we try 17 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,240 and answer the question, what are spirits? 18 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,240 Our guest today is one of the founding architects of 19 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,760 paranormal television, a kid from Pelham, NH, who against all 20 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,160 odds, convinced the world to watch 3 guys drive around 21 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,120 haunted ghost towns in a little car looking for something that 22 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,400 couldn't be explained. That documentary became Ghost 23 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,440 Adventures, now one of the most recognized paranormal franchises 24 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,960 on the planet. And the man who shot it, edited 25 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:19,360 it, and named it is Nick Roth. But this conversation isn't just 26 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,120 about what Nick built, it's about what came after a decade 27 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,000 of staying quiet while other people told his story, the 28 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,120 fallout from a television empire, and what it means to 29 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,120 start over. Where I would be scorched earth, 30 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,360 I think Tessa would be too. Nick rebuilt friends, family, 31 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,480 films, and that's where he is right now, arguably his most 32 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,120 creative era yet. He's got Death Walker wrapped at 33 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,040 80 episodes, a feature film called The Devil's Mark 34 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,320 premiering this spring, and a whole slate of new projects with 35 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,000 his wife on the new service called Brandon TV, capitalizing 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,960 on a lifetime of spiritual and ghostly experiences that is 37 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,560 second to none. Nick Croft has been quiet for a 38 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,600 long time. He's not anymore, and we are 39 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,880 lucky to have him. So let's dive into the 40 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:11,680 conversation. There's so you have such a 41 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,760 career and it's it's so there's so much going on with you. 42 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,240 I don't even know where to start, but I'm going to do my 43 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:18,680 best here to figure out where to start. 44 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,880 And I think it's in something that we have in common, which is 45 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:23,640 sort of producing. And I want to and I really want 46 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,320 to get into like sort of how you got into it from that side of 47 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,160 things, right. And you started as a filmmaker, 48 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,800 you know, you, you loved haunted locations and you sort of built 49 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,760 this blueprint for televised ghost hunting. 50 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,720 You know, you're really one of the Ogs here in, in my opinion 51 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,200 of, of this world. So when you walk into a new 52 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:50,120 location now, do you see it through like a director's eye or 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:51,880 as an investigator? What? 54 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,120 How do you approach a scene? It depends what project I'm 55 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,400 working on, to be honest with you. 56 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,880 So if I'm going in there and I'm telling a story, like on a 57 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,280 documentary for example, I'm going to go on the perception of 58 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,720 OK, I need to get XY and Z to tell that story from a narrative 59 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,120 point. If it's a documentary or a film 60 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,840 or what not that I'm producing. But I also am always open to 61 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,640 what else is happening around me. 62 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:17,720 So I'm a, I'm a very logical thinker. 63 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,200 So if something dramatically affects me while I'm so focused, 64 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,520 I usually get hyper focused on what I have to accomplish for 65 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,680 film. But if something does happen 66 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,120 now, I'm like, whoa, you know that that took me off guard. 67 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,720 Or I just saw something I know that wasn't my eyes playing 68 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,800 tricks on me or whatnot. Absolutely. 69 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,200 I'm always open to that. But it has to be like very 70 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,640 strong hitting for me to react in that kind of sense to say 71 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,440 there's something else here. If I'm at an actual location 72 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,240 that is reportedly haunted, I think it's my everyday life in 73 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,600 general because I'm living with a medium. 74 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,520 Tessa, it's a psychic and it's constantly at our house where we 75 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,360 go no matter what we're doing. It's all the time. 76 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,400 But that's been me since a little kid. 77 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,080 It's weird because I had a near death experience when I was 8 78 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,480 years old. I fell from a tree, ripped open 79 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,000 my arm, almost died. Mom saved my life. 80 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,160 You see the scar there? Sliced it all open right there, 81 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,520 1/2 inch on my artery. Yeah, it was crazy. 82 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:20,200 And I remember just passing out, saying, Mom, I love you, you 83 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,520 know, and then blacking out. And then I told my mom later in 84 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,040 life, this is 1988, you know, my mom's on a payphone trying to 85 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,440 scramble out of YMCA to call the ambulance. 86 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,240 And there's some other lady there helping out. 87 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,720 And I said, mom, no, there was all these people hovering around 88 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,720 me, looking down at me. And they were like older people. 89 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,440 And I, I don't know who they were, but I know they were 90 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,720 looking at me as I was laying on the floor inside the building. 91 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,000 She goes, no, that was just me trying to scramble and call the 92 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,560 ambulance. So that always stuck with me. 93 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,440 You know, I think that brought me closer to the other side. 94 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,840 Ever since that moment, 1988, I pursued ghost phenomenals. 95 00:04:56,840 --> 00:04:59,760 I actually got interested in aliens, extraterrestrial 96 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,240 space-time. I was that weird kid, deep 97 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,120 thinking, late at night at stars, seeing the vast universe 98 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:11,800 and what else is out there. My grandmother in Nashua, NH, 99 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,400 talking about abduction cases from the 19, what was it, 60s or 100 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,120 whatever back there, you know? So I got really involved into 101 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,200 ghosts, phenomena, extraterrestrials at a young 102 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,400 age. And then my sister's godparents 103 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,720 lived in Nevada and they would tell me about Art Bell and 104 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,960 introduced me to Art Bell that would listen to on my little 105 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,720 boom box back in New Hampshire when I would go home from 106 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,440 visiting them in Las Vegas. So I think at a young age, you 107 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,120 know, I was charismatic in the paranormal, supernatural, 108 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,560 everything just encompassed in one cryptids, all that stuff. 109 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,080 And then from there, I think, you know, my, my deep soul 110 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,720 passion has always been film. I'm a film fanatic since the 111 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,280 early age. I was that weird kid that would 112 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:57,640 ride my little BMX bike to the VHS store to rent every single 113 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,080 horror movie in the section. It's to a point where the clerk 114 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,280 would, when I would check out and try to rent the movie, he'd 115 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:05,520 be like, does your mom know you're renting this movie? 116 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,000 And I would be like, Oh yeah, she's over there. 117 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,440 It'd be some random lady. You give me the luck, but you 118 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,240 know, we're talking about the 90s now. 119 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,720 And he'd be like, he'd give me a pass, but then my mom would come 120 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,720 home and I'd be watching doctor giggles on the TV, you know, R 121 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,760 rated movie, horror movie. And she'd be like, return that. 122 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,000 How'd you get that? So I was that kid. 123 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,320 I I had a passion for filmmaking. 124 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,160 I was making, you know, VHS tapes high 8, you know, tapes, 125 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,280 production one O 1 classes doing crazy stuff like that with my 126 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:42,160 buddies making TV production like at high school till we got 127 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,160 kicked off there for just doing like funny, you know, stupid 128 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,320 stuff. Like I'd follow my buddy and 129 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,480 he'd walk outside the production class and we do like report on 130 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,840 weather, you know, what's the weather like today for that? 131 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:56,560 They would run it on the on TV's in high school and we walked 132 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,200 outside like it's sunny, you know, just stupid stuff, you 133 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,200 know. So I think at a young age, film 134 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,360 was secondary for me and having the passion that I found that I 135 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,040 love because I was such a hyper, hyper kid. 136 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:16,080 Like my brain was it it, it moved, it vibed on that side of 137 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,200 things rather than I'm doing good in class and let me read 138 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,560 books and regurgitate that. I was never good at doing that. 139 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,840 I was more equipped with the other creative part of my brain. 140 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,600 So I just I had to learn at a young age how do hyper focus on 141 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,840 that so I can achieve, you know, bigger things and stay focused 142 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,240 because I can get like all over the place like that. 143 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,120 So not until I got to UNLV college. 144 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,800 Yeah, Vegas. Vegas is obviously a big part of 145 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,080 your life here, you know, even from it sounds like you even had 146 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,520 a little, you know, a connection to it when you were young and 147 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:51,600 that. And. 148 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,280 That you went back there and really and set things off and 149 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,200 look, we'll get into all and into that in a in a SEC I, I'm, 150 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:03,880 I'm curious what you started watching on TV when you started 151 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,200 to combine these two loves, though, right from filmmaking, 152 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,560 paranormal. Like what was your first foray 153 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,760 into it and saying I can make this. 154 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:14,840 Yeah. What was your inspiration? 155 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,920 I think my so I made my first film when I was 24 years old, 156 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,520 2004 when I just graduated UNLV. It was called Malevolence and it 157 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,680 screened at the Cine Vegas Film Festival. 158 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,040 Dennis Hopper used on it before he passed away. 159 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,400 And it was cool because I was the only like UNLV almost 160 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,240 alumni. I made it like my last senior 161 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:39,400 year going into graduating and the director of the film class, 162 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,200 he actually was able to push it through to be screened there and 163 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,320 I had a cast of 70 people. I wrote the script, I edit it, I 164 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,880 shot it. We blew up a car in the movie. 165 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,560 It was it was epic. It was cool. 166 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:53,320 It's kind of like a Pulp Fiction back then, you know, I was the 167 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,400 first one to actually have a Panasonic. 168 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,440 What was it? DVX one, I think it was called 169 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,520 this 2004, so 2003 to 2004. I made this. 170 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,560 It was pre Ghost Adventures when I went through that next. 171 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,800 So I made that film and you know, I was writing comedy 172 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,520 scripts. I was writing psychological 173 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,480 thrillers, horror films, slasher films. 174 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,120 I was making short films at college. 175 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,200 I met Aaron Goodwin from Ghost Adventures at college. 176 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,960 He snuck into my college class. He was helping me on my short 177 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,280 slasher films at college. Crazy stuff like that. 178 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,400 But you know, I've always, always at a young age been into 179 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,680 ghosts, looking for ghosts. Like I was telling bigger into 180 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:34,640 aliens and extraterrestrials, you know, fascinated by that 181 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,720 whole subject matter. But I think to answer your 182 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:41,680 question, it was around that time after I made that film, I 183 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:44,440 was looking at another project to do, but something triggered 184 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:49,880 me on October, I think it was like 2004 or 2005. 185 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,040 Right after that, around that time, I saw a documentary called 186 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,600 On the Sally House on a show called Sightings. 187 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,400 Sightings, yes, that's what I was. 188 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,360 I was wondering if that's where you were going to go, 'cause 189 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,200 that that's the earliest I remember, which is like a Fox 190 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,760 Show right in like the in the 90s, you know that. 191 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,480 Creepy. Yeah, super creepy. 192 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,880 You know what it was about, that is, I was sitting there in my 193 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,400 little apartment broke, you know, trying to figure out what 194 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,440 to do. I had some offers from Lionsgate 195 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,880 for that Malevolence film, but I was like, I'm not giving it to 196 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,400 you for free because it's kind of like mostly I was nobody, you 197 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,480 know, It's like I didn't have agent, lawyer, whatever. 198 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:26,560 I just blood, sweat and tears, passion. 199 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:28,800 I knew what I was kind of doing, being creative. 200 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,280 I built my own computer editing, You know, I did everything like 201 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,320 creatively and it was all trial and error like. 202 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,240 But the business side is a totally different realm. 203 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,640 You know, when you produce, you can produce the greatest film in 204 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,320 the world. You could produce Eraserhead by 205 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,800 David Lynch, you know, he took seven years in college to make 206 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,240 that. But if you can't accomplish to 207 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,960 get it out there and distribute so people see it, you know, on a 208 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,640 on a bigger spectrum, that's a totally different area. 209 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,640 I've met so many creative film makers, documentarians, like so 210 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,040 many great creative people that are just way smarter and stuff. 211 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,720 But I think the crazy part is some of them don't know how to 212 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,720 execute to have their product viewed. 213 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,720 You know what I mean? Absolutely. 214 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,960 You know, it's I, I always say to if I could go back and look, 215 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,800 man, I'm 51 years old. If I can go back and tell my 20 216 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,200 myself in my 20's, the one piece of advice it would be, dude, 217 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:29,520 sell out, sell out, hard sell out. 218 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,560 Dude. It's like, take that check, 219 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,000 deposit that check, get that money. 220 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,360 Like do it. It's, it's you're going to keep, 221 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,920 you'll always have ideas. You'll always be able to make 222 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,760 new stuff, Sell it, sell that first one. 223 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,680 Do what you got to do to sell it, and then you'll keep making 224 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:45,400 it. You know what I mean? 225 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,120 It's a good point, but I always say there's a fine balance to 226 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,200 that, right? Like I, I've done lectures at 227 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,880 like high schools and production one O 1 classes and stuff like 228 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,160 that. I think, I think there's like a 229 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,560 big difference because like when you, there's a lot of people 230 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:02,240 that will sell out and kind of go for that check or that money. 231 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,080 I always say go for your passion 1st and what you believe in with 232 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,200 the film. The money will come if it's 233 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,200 good, right? The money will come and you'll 234 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,120 be able to keep doing what you love to do. 235 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,440 But be careful selling out too soon because that can also 236 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:19,040 damper and ruin and anchor you down in life, especially with 237 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,920 what you're trying to create or accomplish. 238 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,720 So just be careful with like like I like you. 239 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,920 I know you're using the word loosely selling. 240 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,760 Yes, I am of course of. Course, I think I always tell 241 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,920 people, you know, stay true to yourself, be passionate, but 242 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,760 don't just be so egotistical and hold on to your film so much 243 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,120 that you think it's like a do or die situation. 244 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,880 I think that's where people get caught up to is like, I made the 245 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,960 best thing ever. I could imagine David Lynch 246 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,800 doing this right, like it's the it's the most marvelous or 247 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,640 Quentin Tarantino, this is the best. 248 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:55,360 No, I I, I will not let you have it for whatever you since you 249 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,840 have to be able to push and budget the industry. 250 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,600 It's crazy how it turns and burns and you know, people claw 251 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,400 each other the top. It's ridiculous. 252 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,000 I've seen it all for sure. So I think that's you. 253 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,600 You do have to be able to let go is a better word and you know, 254 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,640 accomplish what you need to do. So when you made your first, you 255 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,920 know, doc in the paranormal space, what did you want to 256 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,040 bring to it? What was the thing that you 257 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,240 said? This is what I want to do 258 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,040 differently? Or can you point to something 259 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,480 specific in that first dock or in that first look like? 260 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,960 Or what was your mindset like? Here's how I my vision for this 261 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,480 space now, because at the time of that came out, I guess ghost 262 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,400 hunters was on the air too, right? 263 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,560 So that. Season 1 dress aired. 264 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,320 Yeah, season 1 dress aired, but our so I made the document prior 265 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,520 to Ghost Ghost Hunters and not even knowing OK. 266 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,360 And I didn't really watch much of that. 267 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,760 All I've seen was sightings prior to that. 268 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,920 And then there was another show called Most Haunted from 269 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,160 England. Remember that show? 270 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,600 I I know the show. I don't remember it well, I 271 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,600 remember I remember fear fear on MTV. 272 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,280 Not that wasn't paranormal, but it was that look, that sort of 273 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,440 seeing people in scary places, right like that. 274 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,640 And that was before that was also was before the. 275 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:19,720 Well, just just backing up when I saw sightings right, that 276 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,200 show, it was based on the Sally House and when the documentary 277 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,280 person went in, you had that reporter filming on one camera 278 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,160 and shooting straight on the guys back getting scratched and 279 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,680 you could actually see the scratches like appearing on his 280 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,560 skin if you watch the actual cut. 281 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,360 Now what I noticed in that because I'm an editor, I was 282 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,000 like, oh, there's no cuts happening. 283 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,080 If there's no trick movements or whatever, I see it like just 284 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,000 appearing on his skin. So I said, man, that's 285 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,680 fascinating. If that is true, I want to go 286 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,680 out there and see if that's actually legitimately and why. 287 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:58,480 Why is that able to happen? I am huge and ghost been 288 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,360 investigating since I was like around 13 years old. 289 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,160 So I really wanted to see, can something beyond physically hurt 290 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,120 the human body that's living and why? 291 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,840 What are these things? So that's kind of why I got my 292 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,280 start into it. And then I decided to team up, 293 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,840 team up with those guys and basically bring them on board. 294 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,280 And we just hit the road and I scooped up my parents lent me 295 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,680 some money at the time. And because I just wanted to get 296 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,400 a camera. And at the time I was shooting 297 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,240 wedding videos and stuff to just get by. 298 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,560 And I met, I met the other guy there, Zach, who was a wedding 299 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,160 DJ at the time. And that's how. 300 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,240 I met him. He was your wedding DJ, correct? 301 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,320 He was a wedding DJ. Yeah. 302 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,360 Years, years ago. Yeah. 303 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,880 So before that one. There's like a double whammy 304 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:45,640 there. Both. 305 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,080 But I mean, look, I love, I love that. 306 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,920 I love the sense of like when this started and I know things 307 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,680 went S, but it was there was such a a camaraderie there, 308 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,800 right. This is the the sort of odd way 309 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,240 that the three of you met was kismet. 310 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,000 You know what I mean to making something that has now lasted. 311 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,160 You know that you'll always have, which is what it's it's, 312 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,680 it's incredible. Yeah, so. 313 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,760 Sorry, go ahead. No, though it was, it was 314 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:11,960 interesting how it came together. 315 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,600 So like I honestly, when I first started, I had the camera gear, 316 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,600 I built my computer. I was already doing stuff. 317 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,800 I understood how to hit the record button. 318 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,720 I understood like certain principles to like what you have 319 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,040 to do to film and put it to digital and edit it and, and I 320 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,840 understood like a narrative and storytelling, but I didn't, I 321 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,960 didn't understand anything about documentary filmmaking. 322 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,640 You know, there's a big difference when you like script 323 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,560 out something and you write something, you, you tell a movie 324 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,360 or you tell a story, but it's a big, big difference when you're 325 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,280 trying to do a documentary filmmaking because you're 326 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,640 capturing raw elements of that and then you're driving a 327 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,160 narrative story. So I was learning, I was, I was 328 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,280 going honestly, and I really didn't know what it was we were 329 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,120 shooting. I just knew that I wanted to go 330 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,880 out there and shoot and film and try to capture and document 331 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,800 ghosts and and try to figure out, OK, can something else 332 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,800 attack or what? It was this on sightings. 333 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,720 So that's kind of how it started is like just three guys, a bunch 334 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,960 of dudes going out there with different personalities and a 335 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,040 little car. And we just hit the roads of all 336 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,760 the haunted Mayan towns in Nevada and just started like 337 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,839 filming everything. We had like tons of footage of 338 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:23,760 just in the car, just just stupid stuff in the car. 339 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,960 And then we had tons of footage going into locations, eating 340 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,040 food, you know, just all this footage of mini DV tapes just 341 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,400 built up and it was like a clump of mud that I had to like mold 342 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,520 into like pottery or something is how I, my analogy was for it. 343 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,080 But, well, you know. I I'd say I'm, I'm relatively 344 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,000 new to this space. I've been in the look and I and 345 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,080 I worked at Discovery Studios for like 10 years, right? 346 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,840 So, and, and even then I was more, I made more shark shows 347 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,120 and little people shows. I wasn't in the paranormal space 348 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:57,000 when I was doing it, you know, So as I've been diving into this 349 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,120 and watching a lot of these shows, the one thing that I 350 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:02,720 noticed about what you guys did that felt that I would say stood 351 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,840 out to me that felt somewhat different is a more it felt very 352 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:12,560 immersive and almost on the offense to the ghosts, right? 353 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,360 Like that was something and I don't know if that's was a Zach 354 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,360 thing and he you know, but it would it always felt like he was 355 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,920 almost antagonizing him. I am going to sleep in this 356 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,120 place where I am going to force my I'm going to sit here in this 357 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,120 spot with no light. Like it was it, it just all of 358 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:33,000 those things felt very offense based, which was different. 359 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,200 And I thought, OK, you know, and, and like that's, that's 360 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,720 kind of how I was that on purpose. 361 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,120 Or is that just his personality or your or your approach? 362 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,280 Or is it? Or is it because there's only 363 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,920 three of you and he's like, look, we got to get somebody in? 364 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,840 My my approach was three of us and I fought hard when this 365 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,680 turned into a series with Travel Channel. 366 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,280 So there was the documentary that we controlled and we did it 367 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,760 straight up. And then that I was able to get 368 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,800 on sci-fi Channel to air. And that's when it aired in 2007 369 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,960 on the sci-fi Channel right after Ghost Hunters. 370 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:02,240 And it did huge ratings on cable back then. 371 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,560 They did like 1.4 million viewership in that night just on 372 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,880 that documentary film. And it just blew up all over 373 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,880 Myspace back then when that was a thing on the Internet. 374 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:16,080 And I think it was interesting because, you know, we put this 375 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,760 talk together for a very like a good long time. 376 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,080 It was all the collective footage of us going to Virginia 377 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,760 State, Nevada, which previously in two years prior to that, 378 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,240 before I even knew them or anything, I actually went up 379 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,280 there on a spring break just to go check out haunted towns. 380 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,600 And I really wanted to go to the town of Rachel, Area 51 and 381 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,120 stuff. So I hate I went to like, you 382 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,280 know, we can't cross the the line on Area 51. 383 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,560 So I went all through that. So I kind of knew about these 384 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,040 locations and then I met those guys later and I said let's go 385 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,600 look for ghosts and blah, blah blah. 386 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,080 And we hit the road and we went up to Virginia City, NV. 387 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,880 And then I had all this footage and I came back and I'm looking 388 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,120 through everything. And as I started going through 389 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,160 our experiences or what happened to us, I started finding like 390 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,440 evidence, like weird phenomenons and weird stuff like the shadow 391 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,880 figure following me in the Washoe Club or just like weird 392 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,480 stuff at the Myers cabin. We had like playback on some 393 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,040 recorders and some stuff that we experienced in the moment, but 394 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,760 there was other stuff I started. And that's, I think when it got 395 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,800 really interesting and I started molding these moments around the 396 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,440 evidence in the edit. And then I had Zach come in and 397 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,320 do a narrative and front load this story of us and I, I 398 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,320 figured it out pretty quick. I'm like, holy shit, this is 399 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,960 three guys. You got the goofy one. 400 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,320 I'm like the logical series kind of balancing. 401 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,720 It's like a balancing beam effect. 402 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,520 You got this guy over here, funny, goofy, whatever, filming 403 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,720 crazy. You got me in between kind of 404 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,560 like, let's go in there. I'll spend the whole night here. 405 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,440 I'll sleep by myself. I'll go by myself, you know, and 406 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,920 you got the crazy one who's like, come and get me Ghost. 407 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,640 Yeah. You like Macho Savage over here, 408 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,280 like a tight T-shirts. And you know, The funny thing 409 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,360 is, I didn't, I I knew Zach, but I didn't really know him yet. 410 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,160 I was getting to know him too. Like it was, it was still new of 411 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,760 getting to know him because we weren't like real buddy buddies 412 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,920 prior to that. Aaron and I were for years, but 413 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,600 he came in the picture kind of after the fact. 414 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,440 And then we I teamed up with him because I was doing wedding 415 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,960 videos and I tried to get him on like wedding videos stuff 416 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,440 obviously to collab. And I said, hey, let's go look 417 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,120 for ghosts. And he was on board with that. 418 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,120 And that's kind of how. You put a band together. 419 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,400 Yeah. And it is. 420 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:32,320 It is so comparable to a band. You know, you've got the front 421 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,400 man, he's a good looking front man up there, right? 422 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,440 And it's like he's loud and he's this and then you got the two 423 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,760 and then what happens, right, with all bands and it's. 424 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,400 Almost butt heads. They fight. 425 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,840 They. Fight and it becomes you know 426 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,320 of. Course I'm cool with all that 427 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:53,960 stuff like I'm so chill when I come I'm I'm usually very like, 428 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,360 hey, I believe in what you're doing like I'll promote you all 429 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:00,240 respect that. Like I'm super balanced and I'm 430 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,760 willing to like give it all, but like I believe in what I'm 431 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:04,840 doing. You know what I mean? 432 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,280 So I believed in ghost eventually I believed in the 433 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,000 doc, I believed in the narrative and what we captured and I'm 434 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,320 like, this needs to be bigger. It's so amazing. 435 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,640 I see it like I'm a visionary in a weird way, like I can 436 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,520 visualize certain things and I think. 437 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:18,880 That's weird, dude. You're a filmmaker. 438 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,920 That's actually you should be. I mean, if you, if you're a 439 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,280 filmmaker and not a visionary, there'd be a problem, I think. 440 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,160 Yeah. Well, I think there's yeah, 441 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,400 there's two things you there's some directors and film makers 442 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,720 that just go off of paper cuts, you know, and then there's some 443 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,120 people that visualize like the big picture, like, you know, the 444 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,280 David Lynch's and stuff like that out there, but. 445 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,880 Let me ask you, let me ask you this, Nick, if you watched, you 446 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,640 know, if you were going to make Ghost Adventures right now based 447 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,320 on all the things you've made since, you know, and you're 448 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,000 doing today, what, what would we see? 449 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,160 That's exactly the same Nick filmmaker. 450 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,280 And what would we see? That's a totally different 451 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,680 filmmaker. What would you? 452 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,040 Oh wow. I honestly I probably won't do 453 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,960 anything different for the times because I really don't have any 454 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,960 regrets with how everything got accomplished. 455 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,720 I think it all happens for a reason. 456 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,440 So I don't think I would backpedal anything that would do 457 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,600 differently in a sense, because it's kind of it's kind of a 458 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,920 catch 22. You know, it alters things in 459 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,640 time. If you start changing thing or 460 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,600 trying to mess with changing things, I think you just kind of 461 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,880 have to let things be as is and look at it as like you're taking 462 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,000 steps up a staircase to bigger success. 463 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,840 So I feel like that was my door opener like success story that 464 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:33,320 who knew that was going to turn into a phenomenon of like 300 465 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,440 episodes worldwide or something. You know, like none of us knew 466 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,160 that. We didn't know it was going to 467 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,760 be like anything like that. I just knew this was raw, it was 468 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,480 real, it was legitimate like 3 dudes and what you see is what 469 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,840 you get. The story was fascinating. 470 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,640 It kind of had all the bells and whistles of like what it takes 471 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,920 to make something interesting for people to watch. 472 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,240 And then the series hit, you know, like it turned in a series 473 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,520 and we kind of like just brought that and ramped it up. 474 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,720 I don't know what it is now because I've no part in that 475 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,040 since 2014, but it kind of went weird. 476 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,040 Very. Fast well, what well, look, I, 477 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,600 I, I obviously I don't think we can interview without talking a 478 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,400 little bit about this this drama that you can't seem to escape. 479 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,760 It's been years now and it's it still pops up for it 480 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,760 unfortunately. But what would you say? 481 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,400 You know, I'm not going to I'm not going to ask you like what, 482 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,040 you know, where did it go South? But you know, was there a moment 483 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,560 during towards the end where you're like, this isn't the show 484 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,320 I created anymore? Was there a particular turning 485 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,480 was? Can you point to anything 486 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,280 specific? You're like, wait, what are we 487 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,640 doing? Why are we doing this? 488 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,240 You know, like that first thing when you look back on it, like, 489 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:41,600 oh, that might have been the moment. 490 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,800 I think it was just a matter of, yeah, definitely butting heads. 491 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,440 I mean we were butting heads from Season 1, man, like Zach 492 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,240 and I So I mean it's very obvious. 493 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,800 Obvious, you know, I I'm I'm non egotistical in my sense, so I'm 494 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,360 willing to listen and be open minded to concepts. 495 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,040 On the flip side, he's super egotistical on his side. 496 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,240 So it's like his way or the highway sometimes. 497 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,160 And I think there's a big side of that that has flaws that can 498 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,960 really hurt something. You know, if your team or a band 499 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,920 or whatever we're talking about, if it, if you have a group of 500 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,560 people, doesn't matter who it is and you're doing something that 501 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:26,360 is like widely recognized, right music, whatever you look at any 502 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,720 dissect any band, dissect anything. 503 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,160 If you look at accomplished bands that are still going the 504 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,840 metallicas or whatever they are, you, you have a band that has an 505 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,440 alliance minus the egos. They all have egos, you know, 506 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,640 creatively, but everyone has an opinion of which direction go, 507 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,600 what to do, what to say. And, and sure, I do too, but 508 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,480 like I'm, I'm able, I've learned able to take a step back and 509 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,600 listen because someone else's idea might be better than my own 510 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,320 idea, right? And you can always adapt that 511 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,640 idea and make it even better. If you're a team player, there 512 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,720 is no team play in there. Is there a specific moment, 513 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,400 though, Nick, that you could think of like when you were 514 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,880 like, were you arguing about a locate? 515 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,680 Like is there is there like a story there I'm looking for like 516 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,280 is there like a specific thing where like I wanted to do this, 517 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,880 he wanted to do that and it just. 518 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,960 Before, before ghost ventures, we were botting heads. 519 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,000 I almost didn't do it at all. I swear to God. 520 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,360 I didn't do it all. I got a phone call. 521 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:21,680 I was swearing like crazy to me for no reason. 522 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,920 And I was like, what are you? What's the problem? 523 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,960 Just going off the rails and then next day, I'm so sorry. 524 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,520 Can we do this? I'm like, yeah, I, I feel like 525 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,360 it's very narcissistic and very like bipolar. 526 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:37,320 But I was naive. I didn't grow up in a family 527 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,360 with narcissism. I didn't grow up in a family 528 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:42,520 that understood the psychology behind how people operate like 529 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,040 that. You know, I had to learn the 530 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,880 hard way through time and being around someone like that for so 531 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,160 long. So it became almost like a 532 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,680 parasite in a sense. But what would you fight about, 533 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,400 man? Was it like just I don't want to 534 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,720 be in this house at night, or I'd rather do this story, This 535 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,040 is that story? Or is it like I want my Eminem 536 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,960 separated? I'll give you an example. 537 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,280 I'll give you an example. I've never I've talked to people 538 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,960 about this one day location. He wanted to say something 539 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,640 outside was just three of this season 1. 540 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,240 I want to say something. I got my camera. 541 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,440 I'm ready. I used to shoot almost 542 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,080 everything right? So I got camera, never flip 543 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,160 camera. It was just him. 544 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,200 He wanted to say some sound bite for the location. 545 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,320 Really not a big deal. I have to edit it too. 546 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,240 Let me a lot of people don't know. 547 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,040 I edit like 20 minutes of that each episode of season 1. 548 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,840 So you know, The thing is, is like he's like, oh, I need a 549 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,600 wireless mic. I was like, oh, cool, put a 550 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,160 wireless mic on. Like what? 551 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,480 Like it's not the first rodeo. You know, it's not like we're 552 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,160 like partners on this. Like I got the camera, put the 553 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,240 mic on. He's like, and I think I said 554 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,160 something like, oh, I can hear you good on my headphones. 555 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,080 I got the shotgun mic. Go ahead and just say what you 556 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,360 got to say. I I knew it was like a throwaway 557 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,080 sound bite. It's nothing like so important 558 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,920 to be like, let's put mics on. Let's set a setting and like, 559 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,920 let's get like waste time on this, you know, let's capture 560 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,680 the moment, man. It's documentary. 561 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:03,400 And I got it and he got upset because I would not put the 562 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,480 wireless mic on him. Do you see what I'm saying? 563 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,280 So we got in the location all good. 564 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,000 We filmed it, finally got on, filmed it getting gear ready 565 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,640 with Aaron getting everything set up. 566 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,800 He walks by me. You should have put the mic on 567 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,240 me, kept walking. I'm like, Oh my God, man. 568 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,640 She's but this is a build up. Sure. 569 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:22,240 No. OK. 570 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,480 Like this, you know, there's all. 571 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,840 These, it's all these little mobiles, yeah, added up. 572 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,200 To it's like, it's like a band, right? 573 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,480 Oh, we're gonna here's the tension, tension, tension with 574 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,760 these two. Where's the blowout? 575 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,000 Oh, dude, I get it that. I'm still that. 576 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,160 Then I listen. I get it OK I that. 577 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,720 But it doesn't stop there. It walks by again. 578 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:41,960 So. Clearly it doesn't, but. 579 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,720 Wait, there's more. Yeah, go ahead. 580 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,840 Wait, there's more. I let it go the third time, man, 581 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,720 the third time I I'm super chill, but you you push me to my 582 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,840 braking toy. You will feel my wrath. 583 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,200 Trust me. I have no pushover. 584 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,400 I stick to my guns. I've never like sold out in that 585 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,480 sense. I know where I came from. 586 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,920 I'm rooted from New England like I like I'm just that person, you 587 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,920 know. And third time he says it's me, 588 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,200 I'm like I turn on and as quick as he said to me, I said, look 589 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,000 man, I'm going to make this very clear to you. 590 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,000 You're not God. Nobody around here revolves 591 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,360 around you. It's not an issue. 592 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,840 If you had to put your wireless mic on, you could have done that 593 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,480 yourself. I don't know why you keep coming 594 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,040 at me, keep reason by, but you're starting shit with me 595 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,080 purposely. You're gaslighting me right now. 596 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,160 So you're not God. The world doesn't revolve around 597 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,040 you. So grow up. 598 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,480 And he like just like that was his. 599 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,040 That was his moment. So he just freaked out. 600 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,160 So got up in my face. I said, look, dude, I just took 601 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,080 my shirt off slowly and see my face screaming. 602 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,560 Aaron's an old guy. Stop, stop. 603 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,480 He said I'm going to call the producers. 604 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,720 And then he bumped my nose and I threw him back and he just 605 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,000 started freaking out. And he, you know, it's stupid 606 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,440 shit like that, you know, I mean, it became so toxic to the 607 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,120 point where it was not fun anymore. 608 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,880 It was not like it was, it was almost like like pampering, like 609 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,680 just dumb stuff. And I'm like, what are we doing 610 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,880 here? Eventually I came up and I was 611 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,800 like, what? Let's squash it because he 612 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,400 wanted to like run around calling everybody and stuff like 613 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,600 that, producing and stuff. I'm like, go ahead, use my 614 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:13,480 phone. You want to call him? 615 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,440 Like, what's the man's issue? We could either man up, hug it 616 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,360 out, get it over with and let's move on. 617 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,880 We did and that was it. And it turned out to be a great 618 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,160 episode. When we investigated, everything 619 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,760 was great. It's like you got to have to 620 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,800 have the blowout to be like cool with each other, you know, like 621 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,240 that weird bro thing. Dude, I've never been like that. 622 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,280 I. I get it, man. 623 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,200 I did AI did a weird, I did a weird band thing. 624 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,840 I I was in a band for a while and it was with the things we 625 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,400 would fight over. When I look back on it and we 626 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,360 opened for some, nobody would ever hear of us, right. 627 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,680 But we opened for some national acts and had a little bit of 628 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,400 almost a little bit of an odd run and we're like, but the 629 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,960 things we would fight about, when you look back, we're like, 630 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,640 what are we doing? Yeah, we would fight. 631 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,280 We would have blow up fights about beat like what cover song 632 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,720 we should play. Yeah, yeah, it was and it was 633 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,440 the. Fucking unbelievably ridiculous. 634 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,840 It's so it's. Kind of similar. 635 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,160 So like the whole thing was just years of that and it was like a 636 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,320 divide. And then I I found out he was 637 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,720 doing like other paranormal shows I had no clue about. 638 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,560 He went off and did like paranormal challenge. 639 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,160 He did. Was it paranormal popularity? 640 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,680 He did like all these other shows he wanted to be like let's 641 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,840 do shows together and then he goes off and does a bunch of 642 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,440 shows. I'm like look man, let's just 643 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,200 divide. I'll I'll support whatever 644 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,400 you're doing. It's cool. 645 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,840 It was weird though, like because it was just almost like 646 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,640 this quietness Nick's around don't say anything for what 647 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,560 reason I don't know, but it was weird. 648 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,480 But then I did 1 paranormal show Go Stalker right back in 2014 649 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,240 and he belt and then he found out and it wasn't even my I just 650 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,800 produced it and I produced it. I created whatever and I helped 651 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,840 get a position back then the network I was with, they saw it 652 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,160 first and I have it. I had in my agreement, people 653 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,800 don't realize this, that I had first pass refusal. 654 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,040 So I submitted to the network I was working with Ghost Ventures. 655 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,120 They said this is great, we're not going to do this right now, 656 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,080 but I wish you best luck, which means I could go do that other 657 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,560 networks and I did and that's a fact. 658 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,320 So I went got it picked up, it turned it like 1 and then six 659 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,840 episodes and it got picked up. And then back then Destination 660 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,320 America, they decided to release it and do a whole news and that 661 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,520 was a decision. We got it done and they released 662 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,200 it and they and he heard about it. 663 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,800 He went off the railings and just got super jealous, crazy 664 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,560 and nuts. And a lot of people don't know. 665 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,680 Two weeks prior to that we had a conversation about supporting 666 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,520 each other because I had no clue he was making that Demon House 667 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,920 movie. He did and he told me about it 668 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,280 and I, I was like, that's cool. You know, I wish you the best 669 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,160 luck. I had no clue and a lot of 670 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,000 people thought was a part of that. 671 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,840 I was never a part of any. I didn't even know they were 672 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,040 making until they announced they're coming out with it. 673 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,840 Look, didn't we? Didn't we interview well? 674 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,200 Yeah, I was going to say Full disclosure. 675 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,520 So the guy, one of the producers on that, an editor who now is 676 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,960 producing Ghost Avengers, Mike Dorsey is a good friend of mine. 677 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,640 So yeah, yeah, I've had him on the show and yeah, he's, I, I 678 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:04,640 believe me. I talked to him. 679 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,400 I was like, Joe, he's, he never crossed paths with you. 680 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,640 He gets along with Zach and he's doing his thing and they're 681 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,560 having a good time and, and and he's working and, but yeah, he 682 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,440 was on Demon House. He sort of helped Zach in the 683 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,160 edit Bay and as a producer, get that in shape. 684 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,880 He was a documentarian, Mike, and much like you, a shooter and 685 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,120 an editor who came in after it was already shot and then fixed 686 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:26,480 it up. Yeah, I. 687 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,600 Didn't know. I didn't know any of that stuff. 688 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,960 I was literally in the car with them going to a location of 689 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,680 Ghost Adventures and then they were like talking about buying 690 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,080 the house. And then all of a sudden I found 691 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,480 out that way in a weird way. So I was like, oh, that's cool. 692 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,160 Like it's good though. I mean, I look, I support it. 693 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,240 Here's the flip side. He did not support me. 694 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,600 When Ghost Stalkers came out, he went like crazy, called me up. 695 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,720 What is this you're doing? Blah, blah, blah, blah. 696 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,680 I said. I'm just producing another go 697 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,320 show like you did with four, four or five of yours. 698 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,120 What's the issue? And he goes, well, why are you 699 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,400 using paranormal equipment on that? 700 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,000 I go, well, actually I've told you, let's use the Tesla coil 701 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,760 and do different paranormal experiments. 702 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,320 Like this is like season 10, right? 703 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,000 Let's do different ideas, different things that I had in 704 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,560 my mind. And you always said my ideas 705 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:12,840 were stupid when I would present them. 706 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,080 So he's like, Oh yeah, right. That was his response. 707 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,320 He's like, well, I got to go. I got to wash my car and that 708 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,280 was it. Now, methodically behind the 709 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,920 scenes, he got all the guys basically. 710 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,840 He told them all like if you don't team up and go against 711 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,159 Nick to not come to the next location. 712 00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:31,560 So they didn't want to show up at the next location if I show 713 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,239 up. And that's how he got me pushed 714 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,719 off the show because eventually the network dragged me along for 715 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,600 two months and it became a thing like that. 716 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,440 And I didn't know. Methodically, he worked behind 717 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,600 the scenes to get me pushed off the show to the point where the 718 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,800 network was just like, we got to let you go because actually I 719 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:55,719 asked to let be let go at that point because they were just 720 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,760 dragging me around. They're like, OK, we'll call you 721 00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,320 if we need you at the next location. 722 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,240 For two months they kept doing that and we're shooting 22 723 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:04,160 episodes a month. And he kept telling the guys, 724 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,680 I'll fire you if you go against me. 725 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,400 Swear to God, I know all this internally. 726 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,920 What happened and then what happened was is I, I just told 727 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,240 my agents stuff just, you know, fight to get me like released 728 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,600 from this like thing and I'm just going to go and make 729 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,800 something better. And that was the best thing my 730 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,960 lawyer said. You could either, you know, go 731 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,840 to People magazine, exploit this, talk about whatever you 732 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,480 can, put your ego aside and go make something better. 733 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,000 It was the best thing I was ever told me. 734 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,440 And I went and I made thermal lockdown a year later. 735 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,000 So Nick, funny enough, funny story. 736 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,240 You might get a kick out of this. 737 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,800 I have never seen an episode of Ghost Adventures. 738 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,720 My wife hasn't either. Dude coming into this, that's 739 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:45,880 where I know you from. That's funny. 740 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:49,000 And then it wasn't until afterwards Gary's talking about 741 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,400 this, that and the other. I'm like Ghost Adventures. 742 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,800 I'm like, what? And then I looked, looked into 743 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,920 it and I'm like, oh, wow. So I had no idea. 744 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,480 John was like, you mean Nick Roth from Paranormal lockdown is 745 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,360 coming on the show That's. Well, dude, well, that's that's 746 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,200 you know. I'll speak for John here for a 747 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,560 second. He'll jump in, but it's the the 748 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,040 he has been when he first started and, and it's got his 749 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,160 rise on the social media side of of paranormal. 750 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:18,040 He was ostracized by many in the for how his approach is. 751 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,480 I mean, look, dude, we're not, you know, we're not the classic 752 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,160 black. I'm wearing a black T-shirt now, 753 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,760 so not so stupid, but you know what I'm saying? 754 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,320 We're not, our arms are not folded. 755 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,960 We sort of have a fun way of going about doing things right, 756 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,360 you know, and it's and people really looked at him and 757 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,440 resented his approach to what he was doing. 758 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,520 And, and he got a lot of heat for it. 759 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,400 And so all the drama, John avoids that drama better than 760 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,360 anybody I've ever seen. It's a I don't know how I can't 761 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:43,560 do it. Like, I'm new to this. 762 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,320 And I jump in. He gets mad at me for like, 763 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,480 getting into like fights with trolls, but I love trolls. 764 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,560 Nick, how did you stay? Because you stayed quiet about 765 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:51,800 this for almost. A decade. 766 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,680 How did you do that? How did you let people tell your 767 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,800 story without you telling it? Well, that's what happened. 768 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,320 He was methodically going up. I I know all this because a lot 769 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,920 of my friends told me after the fact like about he was going 770 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,800 around calling people, telling people I did a bad thing. 771 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,280 There was never anything bad I did. 772 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,840 Everything was legitimately to the books and everything was 773 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,200 what it was. The only reason I am off Ghost 774 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,120 Ventures is because they all teamed up and said, well, he 775 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,200 made it happen and pushed me off. 776 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,880 So I think it was keep your head up and just move on, you know, 777 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,000 and, and that's what I did. I was probably a bad mistake 778 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,720 thinking back. That was one thing I wish I 779 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,760 would have done differently. Is just spoke up and said the 780 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,200 truth of what happened because all these stories start 781 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,560 circulating and assumptions start popping up like, oh, it 782 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,680 had to be the demon at the last episode that got Nick and that's 783 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,760 why he left the show. Oh, oh, Nick, Nick had this 784 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,800 happen. So now he's not doing the show 785 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,040 because he's scared or oh, Nick did a heard Nick did a bad thing 786 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,800 and went and did another show. Like what? 787 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,440 I was like Holy Grail. It was actually amusing at 788 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,760 times. It was very frustrating and mad 789 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,520 because here I am and I just ignored that. 790 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,800 I was told to ignore it. I was told to just like move on 791 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,840 by agents, by lawyers, by the network. 792 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,600 And we may like deal. I'll just be quiet and move on. 793 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,240 There was no like on paper, right down right here in NDA and 794 00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:17,920 you can't talk ever again about it. 795 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,120 There's no NDA. This whole assumption people put 796 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,720 out there about an NDAI didn't. There was no NDA. 797 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,000 That's so funny. I got to imagine the hard part 798 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,040 also is you, you you can't help but sounding like a have not 799 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,160 right. The guy who's not on the show 800 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,640 anymore starts right starts if he starts saying here's all 801 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,920 this, you just sound like a disgruntled employee. 802 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,600 You got like it like it it sucks, right? 803 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,720 It's almost like a lose lose no matter what you do. 804 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:44,320 So I can, I can see it. I can see. 805 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,040 It that's that's one of my part. And plus I've never been through 806 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,000 this. I was still young and I was also 807 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,840 under the impression if I spoke out hardcore and told what 808 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,600 happened on this hit show, that's kind of happening. 809 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,920 It would almost blacklist me is what I was being told from going 810 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,360 to do other shows, which I was in the works of here. 811 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,200 I have an idea. I'm going to go sleep at 812 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,320 locations. It started with I'm going to 813 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,160 sleep at locations for a month because when I create ghost 814 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,160 adventures, I said, hey, let's lock down dust till dawn just 815 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,840 the three of us. And that's how it came up with 816 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,440 idea. I created the name too. 817 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,840 Not a lot of people know I create ghost adventures. 818 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,840 I was the one that came up with that name exactly the adventure 819 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:24,600 part. I thought it was too 820 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,680 Disneylandish sounding. I said no, it's awesome. 821 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,960 Let's keep it Ghost Adventures. And that's how it's stuck. 822 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,040 But like when I made Paranormal Lockdown, it turned into 72 823 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,160 hours because I always started to realize, oh crap, we have to 824 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,960 condense 8 terabytes or whatever of footage down to 44 minutes of 825 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,520 cable network television time. So what I did is I just did 826 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,720 three days with a fourth day of wrap around testimonials. 827 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:52,200 So I would literally stay there for three days in my clothes 828 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,160 sleeping legitimately. Like, Oh my God, it was the 829 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,280 craziest thing I've ever done in my life because the atmospheres, 830 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,960 the environments were such hell. To stand I would get like dust 831 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,520 mites everywhere on like day three I would never change my 832 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,040 clothes my big toes started going white because I would wear 833 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,960 my boots and never take them off for three days. 834 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,760 I like trans, I like caning, just crazy shit like that. 835 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:13,560 I. Think it was test. 836 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,840 I said this to John. I was like the The Four Seasons 837 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,080 is never the haunted location, right? 838 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,800 You know what I'm saying? You can never you're never 839 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,200 locking yourself in guys. I'm I'm locking myself into the 840 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,520 presidential suite here in the Maui forces in the Grand Wailea 841 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,520 in in Maui to see if I get ghosts. 842 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,880 Exactly. But but that's what paranormal 843 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,000 lockdown was again my it's almost like having my second 844 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,200 baby, right? Ghost Adventures was the first, 845 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,480 Paranormal Lockdown was my second. 846 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,520 And I put my blood, sweat and tears into this. 847 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:43,920 I could have died making this show. 848 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:48,000 Like sleeping in elevator shafts and morgue slabs and a bottomy 849 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,160 rooms. Like no thank you. 850 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,560 If you would watch all the episodes and you see every 851 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,240 location I've slept in like bathtubs, like bar tops, like 852 00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:58,600 crazy haunted areas where all this crazy stuff has happened. 853 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,400 I lost like life's like years off my life from the 854 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,760 environment. But the hauntings were scary 855 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,040 too. But my point I was trying to 856 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,080 make is I go on to do this show right Four Seasons. 857 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,160 And when I'm in the four, the the second or third season, what 858 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,480 happens is, is the network over here with Discovery, which was 859 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,000 destination America, it merges with Travel Channel. 860 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,920 So they bought out Travel Channel and they merge and then 861 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,320 that holds. We were already doing the UK 862 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,480 show. I was told to go and do the UK 863 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,040 Param lockdown show because in season 3 they shelfed it for a 864 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,520 second. No one knows this. 865 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,440 And they were holding on to it because the guy there was trying 866 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,880 to go and, and when they merged a Travel Channel, he was going 867 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,800 to position season 3 and let release it on Travel Channel as 868 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,040 one unit. Because it would, it would be a 869 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,840 bigger smash, right? Everyone would see it more 870 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,160 because we had ghost French over there and I was still supportive 871 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,240 Ghost French as I let it all go. I moved on. 872 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,440 He said some stuff on social media about our Param lockdown, 873 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,760 some shitty things that he said, and I put a whole video on this 874 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,200 so you guys can all see it. And this is the only reason I 875 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,760 spoke out and I've spoken out about it because the problem is 876 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,480 when you have somebody who won't stop behind the scenes trying to 877 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:13,520 stop you, black blacklist you smear your name, say you're 878 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,960 doing bad things when when you're doing unfactual 879 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,240 information and and smearing that about your name to hurt 880 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:22,680 your reputation and hurt you of doing work. 881 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,320 And now it's raining and affecting my family and our 882 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,520 income and everything, right? That's the reason I spoke out 883 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,120 about when Paramal Lockdowns got cancelled. 884 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:36,600 And and it was him. He had a methodical hand in 885 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,360 making that stop. And that's what pissed me off 886 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,640 more than anything. It wasn't the Ghost French 887 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,000 thing. It wasn't like all the other 888 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,120 crap. I moved on, cut my head out. 889 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,320 It was because Paramount Lockdown was succeeding bigger 890 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,240 ratings at the time and it was half the budget of Ghost French 891 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,280 at the time. That's what was crazy. 892 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,960 And the network and executives talked to me on lengths. 893 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,080 Hey Nick, we're merging. You got 20 episodes. 894 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,520 We're doing the season 4, we're going to air season 3. 895 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,920 And I and they're having conversations while I'm in a 896 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,880 freaking 15th century castle in England doing the UK paramalock 897 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,200 down and there's bodies over here and I'm talking them on the 898 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,320 phone. They tell me they get, I, I got 899 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:17,440 all this. It's all good. 900 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,600 We talked to everybody at the network, Everyone's cool about 901 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,640 this acting, everyone's cool. We'll make it work. 902 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,560 That's, that's the conversation I got. 903 00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:28,960 And then radio silence 2 weeks later, somebody there went over 904 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,360 their heads the CE OS of the huge network. 905 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,280 And basically what happened was, and I know this to be a fact 906 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,480 later because I also talked to Dakota Laden from Dakota from 907 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,600 Project Fear and whatever. And he told me off the record 908 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,720 too that he was on set when Zach said I just had to call network 909 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,720 and Nick won't be coming here anymore. 910 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:51,440 And he stopped me from coming there when he was there with 911 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,120 when I was doing paranormal lockdown. 912 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,080 And another executive at the network told me the same thing 913 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,000 too, who became the general manager. 914 00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:02,240 He said that as long as he's as long as he's here, you can't 915 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:03,600 come here and do anything either. 916 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,160 So that's how it. Happened. 917 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,160 That's why the lockdown stopped, that's why I couldn't do 918 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,600 anything. It's like, look, I, I, I have, 919 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,960 I've been on the network side. I worked at, you know, USAI 920 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,640 worked in the studio side at Discovery. 921 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,560 I mean, it's, you know, I wasn't in those rooms. 922 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,720 I can't save anything. I was there at that time working 923 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,320 at Discovery when that happened. But I was in no way, shape or 924 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,800 form a part of any of those conversations. 925 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,000 But I can say I have been a part of similar situations with 926 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,200 talent where they have absolutely. 927 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,760 And from a network perspective, they there's there's so many 928 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,680 factors that they have to look at where it's like, what is this 929 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,680 person's contract say, what can they make? 930 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,280 Can they make the life long term miserable? 931 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,440 What are the long what what ads have we sold? 932 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,440 Like they way they do it, it's always a lot and it sucks. 933 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,880 You know, I can tell you, I bet the network did not was not 934 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,880 happy about having to do that to you. 935 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,080 You know the by they get no joy out of that. 936 00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:02,040 He told me one of the head executives I was really close 937 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,200 with, he told me that he goes dude, I'm so sorry it's over my 938 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,360 head and he's like you should go like I know A&E and blah blah. 939 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,280 He was like really trying to help me and he felt like shitty, 940 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,680 but I think I know the real reason what happened. 941 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,280 Basically he said they will all walk off the network ghost 942 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,320 ventures, all of them will walk off if I come there with 943 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,920 Paramount lockdown or anything. And I was backed up with other 944 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,360 people who were on set with them and it was backed up by this 945 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,880 executive producer who was talking to me off like the 946 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,600 network records And, and he basically what happened was 947 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,760 travel shield was in a financial crisis back then. 948 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,080 So there was in a financial crisis discovery bottom out. 949 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,600 It was like this whole thing. And it was like they don't want 950 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,760 to stir the, they didn't want to stir the pot. 951 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,280 They don't want to stir the pot with like two things happening 952 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,000 and they lose this and then that one dips And like they didn't 953 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,920 want to gamble on either 1. So they got, you know, they got 954 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,120 rid of me and plus I was more of a well, like I could talk like 955 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,160 this normal. I wasn't screaming at you and 956 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,240 stuff and going crazy and hanging up the phone or 957 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:03,760 something stupid. I actually could have a 958 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,800 conversation and I was more of like, oh, he's more the chill 959 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,760 one. And she I always what I found in 960 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,880 this this industry is the louder, crazier, more 961 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,920 narcissistic person usually claws to the top quicker. 962 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,120 Well, yeah, man, this week there's a reason they say the 963 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,480 squeaky wheel gets the grease, bro. 964 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,040 I mean, that's kind of a that's a classic. 965 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,640 Let me ask you this one more question and then we can move on 966 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,200 from this topic for sure. And thank you for sharing all 967 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,760 that. But is and maybe I already know 968 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,280 the answer to this. Is there any part of you that 969 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,400 would be willing to reconcile ever with these guys and like, 970 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,080 let's move on, Let's do a let's do this. 971 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,040 Do you talk to the other guys ever And. 972 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,400 No, I, I haven't talked to them since 2014. 973 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,080 The last thing that Aaron told me on the phone is I'm so sorry. 974 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,560 I can't get in the middle of this was his exact word or exact 975 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,160 words and he was told to just be like chill for a while. 976 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,040 And he said, but I love you man, I love you. 977 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,240 And that was it. And I never talked to him ever 978 00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:00,600 again. But then I found out, you know, 979 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,480 they were all kind of bad mouthing me behind the scene 980 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,600 because someone worked with them at the time. 981 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,440 And I, I know everything that was happening. 982 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,200 So would I like do another project? 983 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,480 I think that's a little tainted. No, I'm sure it is. 984 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,600 But you seem, you seem like somebody who would be, you're 985 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,960 coming across as somebody who seems like they would rise above 986 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:20,760 it. That's why I asked. 987 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,560 I mean, honestly, you seem very level headed. 988 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,800 I'm just wondering. If I came, let me rephrase the 989 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,440 question. If all the sudden you had a 990 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:33,840 vision, a project, something that popped into your mind that 991 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,520 those guys were, you know, not needed for but would be a good 992 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,040 fit, would you work with them again for such a thing? 993 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,640 Yeah, it does. It just depends. 994 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,520 I think there has to be a lot of stuff talked about in a 995 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:54,320 conversation to like kind of get to like this truth stage instead 996 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,240 of like trying to puppeteer stuff behind the scenes and keep 997 00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,080 trying to do some weird methodical thing to stop me. 998 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,440 I mean like it goes deeper than what you guys think from like 999 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,440 even my Death Walker series and other other shows that I've done 1000 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,600 like even not being able to platform some of those. 1001 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,320 So I went the opposite direction. 1002 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,080 So I think the great thing is it's time to change. 1003 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,640 The whole regime over there has changed. 1004 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,720 Everything has changed streaming, all this stuff has 1005 00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:21,680 changed now. So it doesn't matter anymore, 1006 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,440 you know, So I think ultimately what goes around comes around in 1007 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,160 a sense. You know, you do bad things to 1008 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,600 people. Eventually stuff is going to 1009 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,560 come back just naturally, you know, that's called karma and 1010 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,240 whatever. I try to stay true to myself. 1011 00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:37,480 I try to stay positive in the right direction. 1012 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,640 I there's nothing more. I hate the liars and stuff like 1013 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,160 that and people that kind of like trying to take you out 1014 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,400 behind the scenes. But yeah, I mean, I would 1015 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,600 definitely have a conversation if they willing to sit down and 1016 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,920 talk about it. Oh yeah, absolutely. 1017 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,760 But I'm not. I'm getting too old for this 1018 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,600 stupid drama shit, you know what I mean? 1019 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,000 I'm like. 40. Something it's like I, I even 1020 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,640 had this conversation with an executive at the network years 1021 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,160 ago, Param Lockdown going back then at this moment, I said, 1022 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,480 what's the deal? I said get us all in a room 1023 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,280 together, let's talk it out. I don't get it because we're all 1024 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,960 back then. We're all in like our 30s going 1025 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,520 40s. And I said it's like we're in 1026 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,200 like middle school or high school and like this weird, like 1027 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,800 stupid thing. I said, you know, let's talk 1028 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,680 about it and let's get a room bite. 1029 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,160 I think it's just more of the posing party. 1030 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,240 Doesn't, you know, want to talk and whatever. 1031 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:34,400 But I'm more than willing to just, you know, put stuff aside 1032 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,800 if we're talking about that. Other than that, I'm doing my 1033 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,680 own thing. Like we're doing huge things 1034 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:44,160 right now with Brandon TV. Oh yeah, don't jump ahead, Nick. 1035 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,400 I want to get into all that for you. 1036 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,720 I definitely want to touch it. I definitely want to hear about 1037 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:50,200 all these things. It's test told me about it, but 1038 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,600 I want it was the perfect segue here for is talking about 1039 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,360 working with those guys. And then you went from that 1040 00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,200 situation to working with your wife, which I don't know. 1041 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,120 I don't know. I mean, and somehow you're 1042 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,360 making that work, which I find I I and I said this to Tess as 1043 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,480 well. If my wife and I work together 1044 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,960 that often, that frequently, I think we would probably murder 1045 00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:14,520 each other faster than you and Zach would want to murder each 1046 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:15,520 other. So what? 1047 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,680 So when you're you know what, what is it when you guys are out 1048 00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,480 there together? How do you 2 negotiate how you 1049 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,080 approach a scene? What's and what's the difference 1050 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,080 between, you know, doing that with your wife versus doing it 1051 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,760 with, with, with a Bunny who's attacking this? 1052 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,120 Yeah, I mean, she she's definitely a lot more humble in 1053 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:41,120 in the way we go about things. I think, you know, we so when we 1054 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,000 did Death Walker, I kind of met her while I was making like 1055 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,680 season 2 or 3 or whatever. And this is back in 2020. 1056 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,000 We met and she actually had her own podcast show. 1057 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,640 She was doing huge things with the Bears Den Live gallery 1058 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,640 readings at Seneca Casino in Niagara Falls, and she was doing 1059 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,360 some big stuff. She did Night Night with the 1060 00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,280 Medium and I came on her podcast show and that's how we met. 1061 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,800 We just hit it off. We had that like deep soulmate 1062 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,360 connection that we both felt and saw. 1063 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,400 And then we started, I was coming up here to film too and 1064 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,120 we were obviously dating and we just really headed off. 1065 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,800 And I think there's something like a knowing where we've known 1066 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,840 each other for lifes like before in general, and that's how deep 1067 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,160 our connection is. So we kind of have an alliance 1068 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,720 of we kind of know what each other likes. 1069 00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:35,440 Obviously you learn more and. Nick Roth, the big romantic over 1070 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:36,880 here. I know, listen to him. 1071 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,160 The guy climbing out of a Mort's lab is involved. 1072 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,200 You know, like true love, like stars destined. 1073 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,320 Throwing out the Borg with a rodent in his mouth. 1074 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,800 Yeah, it's like, listen to him riding it on his mighty, Riding 1075 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:49,880 it on his mighty. I'm a tall. 1076 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,160 Sucker. I'm a tall sucker for. 1077 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,440 Yeah, definitely. I know it's big time. 1078 00:51:55,440 --> 00:52:00,120 I'll be the first to admit it. And look, we just, we have this 1079 00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:01,760 passion. I think we just have this 1080 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,880 understanding with each other when we investigate. 1081 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,480 Like I trust and believe in her and she does with me too. 1082 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,600 So like if we're both feeling a certain way, we're investigating 1083 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,160 together, like she has her ability that's a little bit 1084 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:18,000 different than mine in a sense. So I like to run full blast into 1085 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,880 like, oh, there's that evil entity in there, let's say, and 1086 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,880 it's terrible and I'm going in to document it and we're all 1087 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,240 like, holy shit. Feels sickening and gross and 1088 00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:28,840 whatever. And she's like, don't go in 1089 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,440 there. I see it, It's right there. 1090 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,600 You're going to get hurt. And I'm like, well, I'm going 1091 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,360 in. I think that's where the tension 1092 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,880 comes sometimes where I'm not necessarily listening to her and 1093 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,040 I'm just going for it, you know what I mean? 1094 00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,840 But after that, it's funny because then we'll document 1095 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,720 something and she'd be like, see, I told you, you should 1096 00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:48,640 listen to me more often while we're in there. 1097 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,040 And she's right, honestly. So I think it's just a more of a 1098 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,680 balance how to figure out the balance in between, you know, 1099 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,720 but ultimately we don't, we don't really fight about any of 1100 00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:00,240 that. Stuff and all this stuff now is 1101 00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:02,600 yours, right? Like, yeah, you're now you 1102 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,080 don't, you're not getting the network notes you don't have to 1103 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,080 worry about, right? You're really the one in charge. 1104 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,800 So what is what are the hard have you can you point to like a 1105 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,520 really like a hard choice you've had to make to keep that trust 1106 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,520 or to now that you're doing it where it's your versus your 1107 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,480 wife? Yeah, distributing. 1108 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,280 I mean, if we're talking just strictly producing and getting 1109 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,920 out there, the content, it's this distribution, you know, 1110 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,440 it's not, it's not easy. There's so many different ways 1111 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,080 now, you know, but we're talking a couple years ago I shot 80 1112 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:37,080 episodes of Death Walker, self produced all of it, sold it. 1113 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,360 You know, it did very well and we're getting ready to release 1114 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,880 season 4 and five in America. One through 3 is out on pretty 1115 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,640 much every platform that we distributed through another 1116 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,640 company. But then it airs in the United 1117 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,360 Kingdom on discovery plus, so it streams out there and they're 1118 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,520 they're not necessary. I know it sounds weird that, but 1119 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,400 there's a divide in America discovery plus them, so that's 1120 00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,640 kind of why that works back sure I wasn't. 1121 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,760 Like, but but talk about creatively. 1122 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,320 I'm I'm talking about just creative decisions that since 1123 00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,000 you are, you know, you're literally could have her 1124 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,080 standing over your shoulder in the edit Bay and she's like, no, 1125 00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,080 you know, like how do you no. She doesn't though. 1126 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,360 She doesn't though, No, because she trusts me. 1127 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:21,400 I show her raw clips and I show her the cuts or I show her Oh my 1128 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,480 God, look at this evidence. I validate what you were saying 1129 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:29,240 like I'll show her the validation part of her ability 1130 00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,120 and then us documented at the same time. 1131 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,240 So I think it's more fascinating for both of us cuz again, we 1132 00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:36,960 love this stuff. It's a passion. 1133 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,760 You know, it's just not like let's go off and shoot another 1134 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,920 show or something like that or we're casted for some talent on 1135 00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:44,880 another show. It's like we're literally doing 1136 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,040 the nuts bolt in in all the hard labor. 1137 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,920 It's my wife, me and my cousin Justin. 1138 00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,600 It was my cousin Justin and me for the first couple seasons. 1139 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,360 And then I brought her in to kind of mix up. 1140 00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,320 It would be really interesting to have a psychic, you know, 1141 00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,080 doing her abilities. And then she just kind of 1142 00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,480 intertwined with us and became this like family unit where 1143 00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:07,200 eventually my wife and my cousin and my cousin Justin is the guy 1144 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,480 behind the camera. And we're just like, you know, 1145 00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,320 cracking jokes or whatever. And and then hauntings are 1146 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,040 happening and she's seen things and it just kind of became what 1147 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:19,640 it was in Season 4 and 5. But we shot 80 episodes of that 1148 00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,880 Death Walker is done. So we moved from that because 1149 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,640 we're creating multiple shows now with brand TV, like I was 1150 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,560 saying. I feel like you guys want to be 1151 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:32,520 the next Chip and Joanna Gaines, but for the paranormal, is that, 1152 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,720 is that fair to say? I mean like really with all the 1153 00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:37,040 things you're doing, is that like an A long term goal for you 1154 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,600 guys, for the girls? I think, I think it just kind of 1155 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:44,280 fell into that like, you know, people were labeling like Anne 1156 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,680 Lorraine Warren of the Next Generation type of thing, you 1157 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,760 know, The Conjuring films, stuff like that. 1158 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,280 I think we just kind of it became that because I didn't 1159 00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,280 really necessarily know she was a psychic in a sense, you know, 1160 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:57,720 when we first started talking and stuff. 1161 00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:00,880 And she's never watched any episode of Ghost Ventures or 1162 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:02,560 Paramount, locked down anything I've done. 1163 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,080 So she didn't actually truly know who I was. 1164 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,080 When she had me on her podcast, I was introduced by Daniel 1165 00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,880 Klass, owner of the Hinsdale House, and he brought me on to 1166 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,800 her podcast show to just bring on me on as a guest and I was 1167 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,640 filming with him doing other stuff. 1168 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,520 So yeah, I think that's how that happened. 1169 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,920 It just be kind of became what it was. 1170 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,440 You're one of the founders of television paranormal. 1171 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,480 I think that's safe to say. I really do. 1172 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:31,960 I think it's, it's fair enough to say. 1173 00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:36,040 How are you adjusting with all these other businesses with, 1174 00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:40,000 with social media and the new gateway to entry? 1175 00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:45,640 How, how are you finding this new breed of ghost hunter? 1176 00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,520 You know, even like this guy that we're sitting with right 1177 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:49,960 here, he's not a ghost hunter per SE. 1178 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:51,760 He's a, he's not a ghost hunter at all. 1179 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,040 He's a ghost documenter, but it's a, it's a whole new set of 1180 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,600 media tools and approaches. What is what is your outlook on 1181 00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,840 what what's happening out there in this space? 1182 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,400 And. How are you fitting in with what 1183 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,560 you and Tess are trying to do? Yeah, it's interesting because 1184 00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,480 there is a phenomenal with the YouTube sensation, right? 1185 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,240 So all these like paranormal gurus just went off and are 1186 00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:15,680 they're making tons of videos. Like you got your TikTok, you 1187 00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,040 got YouTube, you have all this stuff that they're platforming 1188 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,080 now, even Facebook and Instagram and whatever. 1189 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:28,560 But I came from the principle of like, definitely I, I do agree 1190 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:33,480 with like creating this kind of like lockdown 3 guys, you know, 1191 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,560 this raw element. And the great thing is, is we 1192 00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,720 did shoot it all, edit it, you know, like go through the 1193 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,520 evidence ourselves, stuff like that. 1194 00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,520 So that, but then again, that was cable television, you know 1195 00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,440 what I mean? There was a structure to like 1196 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:52,160 one through 6 acts to tell your story because that's how they 1197 00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,320 put it out there based on the raw like investigation part that 1198 00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,720 we're molding around everything. So when like YouTube and 1199 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,120 everything kind of popped off what, 10-15 years ago now or 1200 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,200 something, it was interesting because I think I was doing 1201 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,440 Paramount lockdown and I start seeing all these like almost 1202 00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:14,600 higher end YouTube videos looking like cable television 1203 00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,320 coming out, you know, but like on a obviously shoestring budget 1204 00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,160 or however they were doing it. And I think that was the turning 1205 00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,760 phase in the last couple of years where everything is turned 1206 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,120 now you have all the networks, everybody kind of like, let's 1207 00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,560 buy each other up to only two networks, basically coming up, 1208 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,400 three networks, whatever it is now. 1209 00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,760 And everyone's kind of fighting for that position. 1210 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,000 And then YouTube has turned into like, there's so much content 1211 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,160 out there. But I think it's crazy because 1212 00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:46,680 now YouTube is, you know, your monetization on what you're 1213 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,240 getting on there. They're taking huge cuts now. 1214 00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,040 It's not ten years ago, YouTube. So now it's demonetization and 1215 00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,560 YouTube is like just really gouging. 1216 00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,040 So one week you could make X amount of dollars, the next week 1217 00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,200 on your next video, maybe you're making a penny. 1218 00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,920 Like you just don't know. And I think that's the problem. 1219 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,160 There's no consistency with YouTube unless you're like 1220 00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,520 turning and burning stuff, which I see a lot of people doing. 1221 00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,240 But I still think that's like a bat. 1222 00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,080 Like depending on how your brand is or your vision or where 1223 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,160 you're going, that's a great Ave. for some people. 1224 00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:20,520 But I always say go for some infrastructure to spread it like 1225 00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,680 producing wise and then work backwards to the YouTube or just 1226 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,560 go strictly YouTube and go for it and then try to launch that 1227 00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,280 to something bigger. Talk to me, Nick, about like how 1228 00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,000 you tell the story, though with this, you know, like as a 1229 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,280 creative, right, because you know, you had 44 minutes to 1230 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,920 build to a moment, but now you've got 4 seconds to, you 1231 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,720 know, to get them hooked, right? Or else they're just zip, 1232 00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,600 they're zipping by. How do you you know? 1233 00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,400 What is your thought on that, especially when it comes to 1234 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,560 investigating paranormal activity? 1235 00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,360 Well, years ago it was a little bit different. 1236 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,440 I think you have a concept like Ghost Vunchers, right? 1237 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,880 And you have this concept, three guys locked down, dustled down. 1238 00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:00,240 What you see is what you get raw. 1239 01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,080 I mean, there's the concept, and then basically that plays off 1240 01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:05,800 with all the raw footage being condensed. 1241 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,480 And you have like Act 1 is just the storytelling of interviews, 1242 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,080 building up the location. Oh my God, here's the location. 1243 01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,160 Let's see what happens with these guys. 1244 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:15,760 Here's the conclusion, here's the evidence. 1245 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,160 Whatever. Now it's turned into like I 1246 01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,680 think you had concepts back then. 1247 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,280 You know, now I, I'm in the principle when I look at things, 1248 01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:30,160 if I'm producing stuff like the Devil's Mark film or stuff like 1249 01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:35,160 that, that I'm producing, your story has to be so powerful and 1250 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:40,280 so passionate in some other unique avenue that it doesn't 1251 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,120 feel the same old Like I could click on YouTube right now and 1252 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:47,600 say, Oh, there's a, there's 400 things of ghost adventure styles 1253 01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,080 or whatever. It has to be so different for me 1254 01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,240 personally to move me and it's all about the story. 1255 01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,320 Honestly, now I feel it's about the story. 1256 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,680 It's kind of like I, I think what you were saying, you go and 1257 01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,240 you document ghosts, right? Is that what you're talking 1258 01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,960 about? It's the story you're telling, 1259 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,000 right? And maybe it's the history or 1260 01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:11,440 it's it's this was seen here and whatever happens you, but it's 1261 01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,040 not the principle of what's happened to your experience. 1262 01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,840 It's more or less right. You're kind of documenting 1263 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,480 telling a story. John's alive. 1264 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:23,520 John is primarily alive influencer, so he's live 5 or 6 1265 01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,800 hours a night and he'll stay in a location for years. 1266 01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,040 He'll go back and forth there and he'll constantly have his 1267 01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,840 spirit very spirit boxes on and he's talking to his community 1268 01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,880 and he's talking to to spirits and he's gathering information 1269 01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,200 and documenting it. That's kind of what he's been 1270 01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:40,760 known for. And then he really popped when 1271 01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:42,960 he started doing the same thing at cemeteries, cleaning 1272 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,840 headstones while learning about the history there, cleaning a 1273 01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:50,800 headstone and getting wild feedback from various different 1274 01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,800 whether it's an app or a spirit box or whatever. 1275 01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,240 And it's, that's the, that's the thing that blew him up, right? 1276 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,040 So that's, that's different than the classic. 1277 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,560 Like, you know, let's go. And I'm in this space and and 1278 01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,720 you know. It's so so we're going off what 1279 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,080 Nick was saying, though. It's so true. 1280 01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:11,160 Like even now with like, you know, live creators that are out 1281 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,960 there doing the paranormal, they're a dime a dozen. 1282 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,160 There, there, there's, there's hundreds, if if not thousands. 1283 01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,360 There's a lot, man, there's a lot, there's a lot. 1284 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:24,520 What, what, what sets you apart? Be a live creator. 1285 01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,160 You know, is, is personality, right? 1286 01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,760 So, you know, unfortunately a lot of them are just very, you 1287 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,640 know, OK, spirit, can I have your name? 1288 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:35,840 You know, there's no, there's no personality behind it. 1289 01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:40,680 So, you know, the ones that are successful in that niche, you 1290 01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,480 know, throw a little personality and so that that's you build a 1291 01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,200 community and and whatnot. But yeah, I mean, as you said, 1292 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,720 same thing with like you, you can go on YouTube and you can 1293 01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:55,520 see, you know, 1000 style ghost adventure videos, you know, and 1294 01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,360 it's it's it's pretty wild. It's like, yeah, the the idea 1295 01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:03,080 being, I guess what is the thing that is going to catch them? 1296 01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,680 You know, like, there's a whole new breed of ghost center out 1297 01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,720 there, but they're not going to get the attention on social 1298 01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,800 media in the same way that what you did, Nick, is going to get 1299 01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,120 people invested, right? Like you. 1300 01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,520 You raise these kids and now they're out there doing 1301 01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,840 something that has to be very, you know. 1302 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:21,920 Yeah, But you know, you did. It's your fault. 1303 01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,040 Let the kids out the house. Let them loose you. 1304 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:26,520 Know. Let the boy watch. 1305 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,920 Yes, it's your fault and now, but they're doing it in a way 1306 01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,360 and do you like, you know, I'm curious, do you reject how 1307 01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,800 they're doing it or are you liking what they're seeing? 1308 01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,600 You know it's. Yeah, I think there there's a 1309 01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,240 there's a catch 22. Yes and no right. 1310 01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,040 So yes, I'm I'm like excited for everyone who's doing the thing. 1311 01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,280 I always say follow your dreams, follow your passion, whatever 1312 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:46,440 the some people are in for money. 1313 01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,680 Some people are in for fame. Some people are in it because 1314 01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,760 they really believe in it or they're just interested in it 1315 01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,280 like I was. I think we got, I shouldn't say 1316 01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,960 lucky. I think that's a weird term 1317 01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:00,360 because blood sweat, tears. I literally blood sweat and 1318 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:01,960 tears. May ghost adventures from the 1319 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:03,840 all. Your hard work it definitely. 1320 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:09,360 Wasn't man it like it was just? Dedication, fine, and vision. 1321 01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:13,000 You know you succeeded. Same thing with Paramal 1322 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,720 lockdown, same thing with Death Walker, same thing with the 1323 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:18,200 Devil's Mark that I'm doing right now. 1324 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,040 God, like all this stuff, blood, sweat and tears. 1325 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,360 And I think it's just follow your passion first, believe in 1326 01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:28,920 what you're doing, have that credibility and that balance to 1327 01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,040 stand behind. Don't just cash in for, oh, this 1328 01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,280 is what's going to be quick click bait on YouTube or click 1329 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,840 bait on something because that's all it is now is click bait. 1330 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,480 It's like thumbnails with, oh, the demon is killing me. 1331 01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,400 You know, I'm like, that's everything. 1332 01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,000 But it's a young, it's a young kid generation where kids are 1333 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:46,720 clicking out like my kids, I have 4 boys. 1334 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,560 Like the boys will be scrubbing YouTube and we only give them a 1335 01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:51,720 little bit of time on it and they'll be like, oh, this, this, 1336 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:53,200 this. And it's just like that's what 1337 01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,360 it is, you know, it's this crazy fast pace I need. 1338 01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:00,000 That's that quick sensation. What's insane is all that 1339 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,920 trickles like into into what I do. 1340 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,080 I can't tell you how many times I'm live so and people come into 1341 01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,080 the chat. That's a demon. 1342 01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,040 It's a demon. No, that's just poor Aunt Sally. 1343 01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:17,360 That is not a demon, you know, like it's, it's insane. 1344 01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:18,640 Everything's a demon, don't you know that? 1345 01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,000 Everything's there, everything, but that's because of that 1346 01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,360 YouTube, you know, demon, this demon that it's just so true. 1347 01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,200 Well, it's, it's funny, right? Because everything honestly is 1348 01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:33,000 perception because at the end of the day, we're all humans. 1349 01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,480 We create what a demon is. But what is a demon? 1350 01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,360 All right, If you're realistically thinking about it, 1351 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,120 you have different parts of religion throughout this whole 1352 01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:46,280 world, but we all come into this world in kind of a similar way, 1353 01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,240 even though we're differently in backgrounds. 1354 01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:52,640 But it's what you're taught as a kid or as you grow or older to 1355 01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,560 believe in and what your perception is on things. 1356 01:05:55,560 --> 01:06:00,920 So if you believe that, oh, everything Tessa is talking to, 1357 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,080 right, psychically, it's all a demon. 1358 01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,000 Everything she's talking is demon because ghosts don't do 1359 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,200 that, or Joe who passed away doesn't do that or whatever. 1360 01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:14,360 So it's all perception in in, it's just background. 1361 01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:16,760 Religion is a part, big part of it. 1362 01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,200 Big part, yeah. But I look at things positive 1363 01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,160 and negative, right? Positive energy, negative 1364 01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:25,280 energy. There's good and bad people that 1365 01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:28,160 live and die in this world, from serial killers to people to 1366 01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:30,200 innocent people to children, unfortunately. 1367 01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:32,520 And I look at all of it as energy. 1368 01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:34,280 And where is that collective energy go? 1369 01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,480 And sometimes it lingers in between realms or whatever is 1370 01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,520 afterwards. I don't have all the answers. 1371 01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,200 I'm learning everyday, I'm growing, I'm expanding my brain, 1372 01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:46,400 I'm evolving. You have to be open minded 1373 01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,960 because if you're not, you're just going to be stuck in that 1374 01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,520 box thinking about just the same thing over and over and over 1375 01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,680 again until you pass away and figure it out. 1376 01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:57,240 But none of us have the right answer, man. 1377 01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,840 I mean, a lot of people out there claim to know and claim to 1378 01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:02,440 paint narratives and whatever, but I think you got to stay 1379 01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,280 open. You have to have some thought 1380 01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,400 process with creating a story and telling a story from your 1381 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:12,080 perspective, but you also have to stay well grounded while 1382 01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,800 doing that. So I mean, you know, when you 1383 01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:18,600 dive into it, you kind of have to pick and choose how you're 1384 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,440 you, you're just dialoguing this stuff outward. 1385 01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,680 And I'm a big belief in like storytelling right now, 1386 01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:28,120 cinematic storytelling. But if there's raw elements to 1387 01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,640 take from, that's a big push to but I think people are more 1388 01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:36,320 invested in stories today and uniqueness and interesting like 1389 01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,560 value that you're offering. That's relatable people too. 1390 01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:42,160 Hence why I love the Devil's mark. 1391 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:44,360 Because that man. Yeah. 1392 01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,520 We'll get to that. I want to, I want to hear about 1393 01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,560 the, I want to hear about your latest, your, your latest movie. 1394 01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:51,520 But I, I want to just quickly, before we forget about what you 1395 01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:55,080 just said about energy. Is that what you think spirits 1396 01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:57,760 are? Do you think spirits are energy 1397 01:07:57,880 --> 01:07:59,440 or what do you think? What do you think you're dealing 1398 01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,360 with over all these years? When I was younger, I would 1399 01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,200 think different. Like 10 years ago I would 1400 01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:05,520 probably think something different. 1401 01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,880 You know, I had weird experiences from A-Z where I am 1402 01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,840 now, right? So I had experiences of like 1403 01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:20,040 hearing someone say Nick Gruff on a digital recorder when IA 1404 01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:23,240 100% know no one else did that How? 1405 01:08:23,319 --> 01:08:25,960 And that's not like matrixing. That's like legitimately I hear 1406 01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:28,640 that other people hear that, you know, and there was no one else 1407 01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:30,120 making that sound under that frequency. 1408 01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:34,319 And then I started learning and studying about decibels, like 20 1409 01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:37,840 to to 0 decibels below that. We don't hear with our own ears 1410 01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,160 that frequency and the old Nikola Tesla frequency, 1411 01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,200 vibration and energy and all that stuff. 1412 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,720 I think we do. You know, we produce energy, 1413 01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:49,760 kinetic energy when I'm moving, right? 1414 01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,399 We all produce certain energies. We don't have a complete 1415 01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:54,600 understanding of the whole brain. 1416 01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,080 But what fascinates me is the consciousness in our brain that 1417 01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:02,160 we collect and gather and evolve as we grow older, in between 1418 01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,760 being born, dying, the consciousness, where does the 1419 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,000 consciousness go when the body dies? 1420 01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,479 And the energy, where does that go to? 1421 01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,080 Are they connected with electricity? 1422 01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:16,000 You know all that stuff that goes on without getting too 1423 01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,960 science heavy here. And does it linger? 1424 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:20,880 Does it? Please do get science heavy no? 1425 01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:24,640 Was it able to communicate like from the other side? 1426 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,880 And again, I'm not like a doctor, but I've talked to 1427 01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:28,800 people that have had near death experiences. 1428 01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,880 Like I talked to a Doctor Who researched 5000 patients that 1429 01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,840 had Ndes. You know, my wife and I, we 1430 01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,760 skated on that. But I've had deep conversations 1431 01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,920 with some really smart people who are book savvy that are 1432 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:46,120 doctors and know neuroscience and know all this stuff without 1433 01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:48,960 me out speaking where I don't know everything. 1434 01:09:49,399 --> 01:09:55,200 But I think the simple principle is I do believe that energy is a 1435 01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,600 big factor, but I don't think it's one thing that happens to 1436 01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:01,040 us when we die. At this point in my life, I 1437 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:05,960 think multiple things happened to us when we die, I think it's, 1438 01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:08,360 well, it's a transitional phase, right? 1439 01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,440 So, and this is a big thing I've been learning lately with people 1440 01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:13,800 that have passed away around me throughout the years, like my 1441 01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,120 uncle's, some other people passed away recently. 1442 01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:18,880 Sometimes it comes in threes, right? 1443 01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,360 You'll hear, oh, this uncle's passing, 02 more people are 1444 01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:24,520 going to pass. There are nursing homes talk 1445 01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,120 about it, people passing in threes in nursing home, like 1446 01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:30,680 just weird stuff like that. Nikola Tesla, I know it's a 1447 01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,640 little conspiracy theory here, but Nikola Tesla talks about 3, 1448 01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:37,800 you know, 3's, three's magic number, the very songs about it. 1449 01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:46,920 But what I'm getting at is the idea that when we pass, multiple 1450 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,400 things happen and I call it almost like the Jesus Christ 1451 01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:52,760 moment, right? Right before you're dying. 1452 01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:56,680 And what I mean by that, if you look at the big old term, 1453 01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:58,400 because I don't get too biblical. 1454 01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:00,640 I'm very spiritual, but I was raised Catholic. 1455 01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,520 My mom goes to church, all this stuff, but I'm more like open 1456 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,880 minded with everything, every religion, everything. 1457 01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,640 I love talking to everybody of all walks of life. 1458 01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,840 I have no, no problems with anything, right? 1459 01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,360 Because I want to learn. I want to be open now. 1460 01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,840 If you notice when people pass away, there's some weird thing 1461 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,560 that happens to a lot of people. Maybe they went through in their 1462 01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:24,520 life, like maybe they did some bad thing or something like 1463 01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:26,120 that. Sorry for the interruption, but 1464 01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:29,000 did you see John get distracted by the spirits like a dog seeing 1465 01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,080 a squirrel? We're going to explain it in a 1466 01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:32,840 second. I'll rewind it, show you again, 1467 01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,240 and move on. But don't worry, we'll tell you 1468 01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:39,200 what happens later. Weird thing that happens to a 1469 01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,880 lot of people, maybe they went through in their life like, you 1470 01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,800 know, maybe they did some bad thing or something like that and 1471 01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,440 they have to go through this like just terrible phase before 1472 01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:51,400 they pass away, like cancer or something. 1473 01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:54,600 Something that they did in their life that has reflected on them 1474 01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,880 that they have to pass through in kind of like this, this 1475 01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,320 transitional stage. And then when they pass or 1476 01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:06,320 before they pass, they have like this vision of seeing somebody 1477 01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:09,200 or seeing the uncle or seeing somebody with them or you'll see 1478 01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:11,560 them call, was it called the death breath or whatever? 1479 01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:13,680 Well, the death rattle. Yeah, yeah. 1480 01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,960 Rattle, but not even that it's like almost like they start 1481 01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:19,840 seeing these people and talking and they have to stare. 1482 01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:22,280 You know, the death stare and then they'll pass away. 1483 01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,280 We had a whole thing on this We're we're going to be 1484 01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:28,640 releasing it too on Brandon TV. We produced a live show where 1485 01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,200 here we talked to ND ES and stuff like that. 1486 01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:37,560 But it's weird to me when I start because I, I like to think 1487 01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,920 and start evolving and I and I almost like do what you do where 1488 01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,080 you go when you're picking up evidence, you keep going back to 1489 01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,560 the same location. You're seeing if it changes or 1490 01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:49,760 you seen if you get in the same evidence or the same spirit 1491 01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:51,800 talking or somebody different coming through, right. 1492 01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:55,040 I, I like that where you keep going back to the same places. 1493 01:12:55,040 --> 01:13:01,320 That's interesting and I'm looking for patterns similar for 1494 01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,200 just myself personally. It's not like a quest I'm on 1495 01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:05,600 here. I'm trying to do a documentary. 1496 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:09,360 It's just my personal opinion. I think multiple things 1497 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,120 happened. You have a transitional stage. 1498 01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,080 You have to let go of your regrets. 1499 01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:15,080 You have to be willing to pass on. 1500 01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:18,520 I think some people like when you talk to victims, victims 1501 01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,880 that like may be hit by a car or they take their own life or 1502 01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:26,280 something really tragic there. There's lingering energies where 1503 01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:30,040 you have to pass through that phase as energy or as something 1504 01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,080 else. And then it's like, what are the 1505 01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:33,440 beliefs? I mean, we're only human. 1506 01:13:33,440 --> 01:13:37,600 We can only expand our brain so much in so little time through 1507 01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,200 our hundred years of whatever we live, right? 1508 01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:42,400 So. If we're lucky. 1509 01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:44,120 Yeah, if we're lucky. Exactly. 1510 01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:47,840 So what else is there? There's different transitions of 1511 01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,680 the energy that the energy has to go through to change, 1512 01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,680 multiply, transfer. Maybe reincarnation. 1513 01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,160 Maybe they didn't get it right. Maybe they have to come back. 1514 01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:00,800 Maybe they there's something that has to happen. 1515 01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,240 Maybe there is this above higher place. 1516 01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:07,280 My understand there is a higher place, you know, from ND people 1517 01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:10,480 talking about they float to space and it's all energy 1518 01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:13,120 everywhere. Maybe that's the heaven that we 1519 01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,000 define as. And I've talked to somebody 1520 01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:20,600 where it's just all darkness and nothing and so scary and you 1521 01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:23,400 can't see anything. It's like you're in an abyss of 1522 01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,600 just like vastness where you're just like lost. 1523 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,840 And he came back to life. He was asked do you want to stay 1524 01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,080 here? And he said no and he zapped 1525 01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,080 back to his body after being pronounced dead. 1526 01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:36,120 Like I've talked to people like that scary shit. 1527 01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:39,000 I love NDS. I've I, I had a whole thing with 1528 01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,200 people who do distressed NDS, so it's like they go to hell 1529 01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,840 instead, which is great. And yeah, it's why. 1530 01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:47,400 Exactly so. It's always great when people go 1531 01:14:47,440 --> 01:14:49,880 to hell. Yeah, it's it's the best. 1532 01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:51,960 But it's, it's energy, it's all. Energy. 1533 01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:53,000 It is. It is. 1534 01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:57,840 If you think about, we're all like, we're all energetically 1535 01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:03,240 connected in this vast universe, man as one, but we're so divided 1536 01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:06,440 as human beings, you know, for multiple reasons, you know, 1537 01:15:06,440 --> 01:15:10,400 money, power, eagle, whatever the hell, religion, background, 1538 01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,160 whatever it is. It's an algorithm, I think these 1539 01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:14,400 days. But we're all connected. 1540 01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,120 It's like, you know, some people believe it doesn't even exist. 1541 01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,120 We're sitting in a matrix and everything is just like codes 1542 01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,080 and stuff. And that's like the that's like 1543 01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:26,160 the young, the gravity leaking theory. 1544 01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:27,760 You know, we're trying to figure. 1545 01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:28,640 Out. Yeah. 1546 01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:30,720 We're trying to figure out why gravity is such a power, 1547 01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,760 powerful force. But where is it all? 1548 01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,840 We're so strong. Where is the gravity going? 1549 01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,480 Well, it's a possibility. It's leaking into dimensions 1550 01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:44,480 that we cannot see and we cannot perceive in this form. 1551 01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:46,440 You know, this is straight science. 1552 01:15:46,440 --> 01:15:48,520 This is straight theoretical science. 1553 01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:52,280 You know it sounds woo woo, but in reality it's not. 1554 01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:56,440 Well, yeah, no, it's been proven that there's multiple dimensions 1555 01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,520 based on science, based on like real science driven people like 1556 01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,160 that actually have PhDs and whatever. 1557 01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:06,000 Like I think last years ago there's like someone was 1558 01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,520 claiming factually claiming there was like 15 different 1559 01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,560 dimensions. Dimensions, yeah, yeah. 1560 01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,520 Started off as 11 if I remember and then jumped up to 15. 1561 01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,680 Now it's like 50 or something. I don't know, something crazy I 1562 01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,520 didn't like too much. But he's getting all this data, 1563 01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:22,800 you know, and it's, it's, it's wild. 1564 01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:24,880 Well, look at, look at the ghost particle. 1565 01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,120 Look at the ghost particle. You see that? 1566 01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:29,960 Yeah, we started, we started talking to people about that 1567 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:31,920 recently. Yeah, a lot of people more and 1568 01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:35,000 more are starting to talk about what that is, right, that 1569 01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,840 quantum sort of tube, right? Is that we're right? 1570 01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:40,080 That's that ghost. Yeah, yeah. 1571 01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:43,000 Well, they have all the cameras and they dissect that one little 1572 01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,640 particle that they call the ghost particle for that instance 1573 01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,960 because you can't see it. But we live in a spectrum, 1574 01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:49,600 right? Here's our spectrum, here's the 1575 01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,880 animals, and then here's the spectrum of everything. 1576 01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:55,400 We don't see everything. We don't feel everything but. 1577 01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:57,880 This is a book. This is a book you should read 1578 01:16:57,880 --> 01:16:59,840 if you haven't, if you like consciousness, the conscious 1579 01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,680 universe by Doctor Dean Radin. I've read it. 1580 01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:05,480 I'm like reading it again. I it's like my go to like I the 1581 01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:08,280 the thing what you said about what I've learned doing this. 1582 01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:11,960 I've I've been leaning more into this idea of consciousness and 1583 01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:15,080 what is it and what creates it and what what is it that's 1584 01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:18,800 happening and is it? This is the wrong word, but it's 1585 01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:21,880 the best word. Like manifestations from 1586 01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:24,080 consciousness. That is that what we're all? 1587 01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,680 I don't know the answer. Nobody does but this one, Nick, 1588 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:28,080 you'll, you'll. This is something you should 1589 01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:29,640 pick up. I've heard that book The 1590 01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:30,520 Conscious. Universe. 1591 01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,400 But anyway, like. Yeah, I mean, it's a great 1592 01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:38,920 answer to figure out. And who better than you who've 1593 01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,760 been in all these places to have had experienced in multiple 1594 01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,400 forms to help us paint this picture? 1595 01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:49,600 We like to call it like a mosaic of what are spirits. 1596 01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:51,880 To get these different perspectives and to hear your 1597 01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,400 side of it is really valuable from everything. 1598 01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:56,520 By the way, did you Nick? When you were talking, did you 1599 01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,040 hear me start yelling at the spirits? 1600 01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:01,760 Yeah, what was that? Dude, I've been having they have 1601 01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:04,120 been I have a bunch of dolls. Some of them aren't wanted. 1602 01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:07,440 Some of them aren't. Dude, they haven't just fallen 1603 01:18:07,440 --> 01:18:11,120 over and moving and I don't even know what what they moved. 1604 01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,160 I was looking and I I couldn't even tell what they moved over 1605 01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:16,120 here, but I don't know if you heard the the sound. 1606 01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:19,040 I heard it. Yeah, I was just like, you know, 1607 01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,480 this where I'm at is a a very haunted spot. 1608 01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:26,280 Yeah, I can tell. I I was looking at the back of 1609 01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:27,720 like, where are you right now? Yeah. 1610 01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,000 Yeah, yeah, it's. Like you in the Lizzie Borden 1611 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,640 house or something like, look, it looks cool. 1612 01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,880 Yeah, No, that, that's awesome. Man, Nick, first of all, thank 1613 01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:37,880 you so much for your time today. And I want to talk about let's 1614 01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:40,680 let's, we could sort of close this out by talking about your 1615 01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,040 latest feature. Tell us about the Devil's Mark. 1616 01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:46,120 What went into making it? What, what's what's your love 1617 01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:47,360 for it? Why this story? 1618 01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:52,600 Yeah, so 2 twins, Joel and Scott Klingensmith, they grew up in 1619 01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,880 Michigan and they come from trauma, physical and mental 1620 01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:59,960 abuse from their father and a house from age 6 all the way up 1621 01:18:59,960 --> 01:19:03,200 into present time. Father left him at like 14. 1622 01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,280 And I told the whole story and why I got fascinated with this 1623 01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:09,040 book. Actually, we investigate a 1624 01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:13,640 location with them for a Twins Haunting that they're, they're 1625 01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,520 coming out with 20 episodes of Twins Haunting. 1626 01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:21,680 And then he had a book and it was actually handed to me by 1627 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:25,400 another friend of mine. And Tessa looked at it and 1628 01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:28,640 psychically, just off the bat, she was like, that's your next 1629 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:30,600 project. Just out of the blue without 1630 01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,280 reading it, she looked at it and she goes, that's it. 1631 01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,560 Because I was looking to do another film for like 2 years 1632 01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:38,360 straight and I had a couple ideas. 1633 01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:40,720 And she's like that. It's not it. 1634 01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:42,960 For two years she was telling me that's not the one, that's not 1635 01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:44,960 the one. And I kind of, I listened to her 1636 01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:46,200 and I was going to like frustrate. 1637 01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:49,600 Like I, I, I'm getting there. I need to make something. 1638 01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,680 And then this happened. We crossed paths. 1639 01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:55,280 It happened for a reason. I'm a big believer and like non 1640 01:19:55,280 --> 01:20:00,240 coincidental things. And I took a stab at the book 1641 01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:03,400 and I was like. This is really fascinating. 1642 01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:08,320 I saw, I think I just saw the whole vision how I could adapt 1643 01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:11,240 this book and just make it how it is now. 1644 01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:16,440 So what I did is we just, I broke it down and I broke from 1645 01:20:16,440 --> 01:20:19,560 his book and I added on to it and I talked to him in lengths 1646 01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:22,600 for months. I talked to Joel and Scott and 1647 01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:25,320 just learned more and more and more and I dug a little bit 1648 01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:27,800 deeper from the back history that was not in the book. 1649 01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:32,880 So I got more information and I just started writing into this 1650 01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:37,240 format of what I do is I tell the whole back story with 1651 01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:39,960 basically reenactments and I shot everything. 1652 01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,880 So I'm telling his whole story as we're intertwining his 1653 01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:46,920 interview as he's talking about it, and we're cutting to the 1654 01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:51,800 storytelling kind of rhythmatic cinematic breakdowns of his 1655 01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:55,800 certain parts of their life that were very impactful from the 1656 01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,920 father, from the trauma to the spiritual happenings in their 1657 01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,040 house to what they believe the hauntings could be. 1658 01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:06,520 Now, what's creepy is we get into this attachment that he has 1659 01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:10,160 this negative attachment. Some might claim it's the devil, 1660 01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:14,320 some might claim it's this negative ancient entity. 1661 01:21:14,440 --> 01:21:16,960 He definitely has an attachment, let's put it that way. 1662 01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:19,720 And he? One of the brothers. 1663 01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,840 Joel Scott didn't get an attachment. 1664 01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,760 He did. Now here's where the story gets 1665 01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,360 interesting. So Tessa, my wife and I, we 1666 01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:33,000 decide to meet him in 2025 to investigate certain locations 1667 01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:34,960 where he believed the attachment came from. 1668 01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:39,480 We found out it wasn't from Mackinac Island in Michigan. 1669 01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:43,640 We found out wasn't from this hotel he went to back in 2015. 1670 01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:46,600 He got hit so hard he blacked out. 1671 01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,440 He had these things after him. He was at bugs everywhere. 1672 01:21:49,440 --> 01:21:53,040 He was like the same. All this crazy stuff, man. 1673 01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:57,800 Now this story is very relatable to people because it has trauma. 1674 01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:01,320 The paranormal was almost like a niche to me. 1675 01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:03,320 Like, how do you make paranormal a little bit different than 1676 01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:04,920 what's been done a gazillion times? 1677 01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:09,440 And what attracted me to this, it was so relatable to people 1678 01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:13,160 because of the trauma, because of the psychology behind it, and 1679 01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:17,280 also because he he was an addict at one point of his life with 1680 01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:19,600 drugs. And then he got clean and then 1681 01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,360 he got better and then boom, it hit him full force. 1682 01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:25,240 This this dark negative thing that hit him is. 1683 01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:27,520 He still alive. Yeah, he's still here. 1684 01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:29,160 He'll be at the premiere coming up. 1685 01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:31,200 Is he fixable? I mean, is it? 1686 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:33,240 Well, here's here's the crazy part. 1687 01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:36,120 So we investigate with him in 2025 to try to figure out does 1688 01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:39,880 he have an attachment or is it something else, right. 1689 01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:43,720 And we realize with equipment and psychic abilities and stuff, 1690 01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,680 he has an attachment. And you'll see in the story, we 1691 01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:50,760 go from six years old all the way up to present time 2025, 1692 01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,960 where we meet him and go back to these tracing these footsteps of 1693 01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:58,520 where he, he thought he had it, not knowing we realized that he 1694 01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:01,520 does have, we bring him back to Buffalo, NY and we do this 1695 01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:04,680 massive experiment. We bring in a Native American to 1696 01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:07,120 cleanse him and try to get rid of this negative entity. 1697 01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:10,160 It's Wildman. And we did a psychic dive into 1698 01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:14,520 his childhood home with astral projecting where they do a 1699 01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:16,600 psychic read on the House and everything. 1700 01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:20,760 It's, it's a wild documentary, hard hitting. 1701 01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:24,840 It's, it's wild. It's relatable to people and 1702 01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:27,600 also the haunting side of it is super scary so. 1703 01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:29,880 I'm excited to see it. Where are people going to be 1704 01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:33,560 able to see it? So double Mark May 23rd. 1705 01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:37,440 We're premiering it at Riviera Theater in North Tonawanda, NY. 1706 01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:39,760 It's a beautiful theater. It's a haunted theater. 1707 01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:41,160 You guys are more than welcome to come. 1708 01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:45,080 So May 23rd, it's coming out in the theaters and then will it be 1709 01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,480 available for streaming or? Yeah, worldwide. 1710 01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:49,880 So we're positioning it right now, and I'm going to announce 1711 01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:52,480 that really soon after the premiere, we'll have a position 1712 01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:54,600 where worldwide you'll be able to stream it everywhere. 1713 01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:58,680 And the great thing is my wife and I, we teamed up with Brandon 1714 01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:02,200 TV now too. So Brandon TV is an amazing 1715 01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,880 another streaming service, but we're producing multiple shows 1716 01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:09,680 with hams and we have big projects that we're working on 1717 01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:12,600 right now too that we will be coming out with. 1718 01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:15,720 So yeah, we have a lot of stuff in those works. 1719 01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:17,440 That's great. I'm excited to see that. 1720 01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:19,640 I assume if I was going to say I'm assuming that this kid, I 1721 01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:21,520 don't want to spoil the ending, I didn't see it, but I'm 1722 01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:24,040 assuming if this guy's showing up at the premiere, maybe he's 1723 01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,000 either got this thing in Bay or he's under the wraps. 1724 01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:27,800 Otherwise I would have said take him out in the boat and throw 1725 01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,240 him overboard because he's lost like anybody with that kind of 1726 01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:33,520 darkness. To do that. 1727 01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:36,680 I mean, dude, anybody with that kind of darkness or that kind of 1728 01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,360 thing, after you 2 investigate it and say it's there, it's 1729 01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:41,040 almost like, hey, you know, it's like. 1730 01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:45,000 It was it was scary, man. I won't lie like because I I go 1731 01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,880 and very logical and I try to balance it right. 1732 01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:50,600 But it was scary at times because we were interviewing and 1733 01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,360 Tessa was sitting there and she had the laptop and we were 1734 01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:56,720 talking and I was interviewing here with the camera and her 1735 01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:59,800 laptop just being pulled off her body like literally, and she was 1736 01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:02,560 freaking out about it. You obviously don't see, it's 1737 01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:06,440 like it's like off camera and stuff, but there's stuff behind 1738 01:25:06,440 --> 01:25:09,320 like the scenes that we that's not in the document or anything. 1739 01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,120 But there's other things that were happening, you know, that 1740 01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:17,080 were pretty scary that there is some sort of like gravitational 1741 01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:21,280 pull to whatever he has that has stuff and his his twin brother 1742 01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:24,880 Scott talks heavily about it. But we believe it was 1743 01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:29,560 transferred from the father to him in the moment of him, his 1744 01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:32,560 father strangling him and almost killing him real story. 1745 01:25:33,440 --> 01:25:37,200 And he blacked out wound up. So it's it's a deep, deep story 1746 01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:41,280 and Tessa without even knowing anything, without even knowing 1747 01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,960 anything, Tessa goes, we didn't even know any of this stuff. 1748 01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,200 This is all in the dock as we're pulling back the layers and 1749 01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,960 we're discovering it. Tessa literally said this came 1750 01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:52,760 and I got look at the goosebumps came from you. 1751 01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:54,480 I got you too when you said that. 1752 01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:58,240 Yeah, it came from your grandfather and the grandfather 1753 01:25:58,240 --> 01:25:59,920 was in war. She's like your grandfather was 1754 01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:02,800 in war, didn't know anything and they're both twins were like, 1755 01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:06,560 holy shit, yes, our grandfather was in war and he was this and 1756 01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:08,920 that and she was saying everything is like he picked it 1757 01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:13,560 up there ancient entity or something negative brought it 1758 01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:15,360 back, transferred it to the father. 1759 01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:18,000 The father father has had it. They've had all this stuff 1760 01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,920 happening and we believe they transferred to him and that's 1761 01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:23,080 sort of the twist. Listen, this whole family's 1762 01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:24,240 fucked. Throw them overboard. 1763 01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:26,440 Every single one of them. Like to certain people, it's 1764 01:26:26,440 --> 01:26:29,160 like, look, we tried. You seemed like good people, but 1765 01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:31,800 you got these attachments from like World War 2 and it's time 1766 01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:33,400 to go like just push them off the boat. 1767 01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:35,160 It's like, why? We don't need them around. 1768 01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:36,720 We don't need that thing spreading around. 1769 01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,200 I'd rather get COVID. I think, I think I think it's 1770 01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,680 attached to him and I, you know, The thing is, is Joel is such a 1771 01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:46,280 humbled, I really like him. He's actually a good person, 1772 01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:48,840 man. And he's he's struggled to life. 1773 01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:52,520 He really, it's takes so much dedication and mind power to 1774 01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:54,800 overcome certain things in life that he's done. 1775 01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:59,480 So I he's, he's a real good guy. And I think there was a part of 1776 01:26:59,480 --> 01:27:02,600 us that like sincerely wanted, like we wanted to help him. 1777 01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,160 It wasn't just about telling the story. 1778 01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:05,720 It was also like we wanted to help him. 1779 01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:08,840 So we went the distance. And you'll see all that in, in 1780 01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:12,360 the Devil's mark. And it's just, I think it's been 1781 01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:15,720 a long time since I've been fired up and passionate about. 1782 01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,080 Wow, here it is. I'm kind of like talking you, 1783 01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:19,800 right? As like if you came in my 1784 01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:24,320 apartment back in 2000 and like 5 or 6, I'm like, guys, come 1785 01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:25,440 over here. I want to show you something. 1786 01:27:25,440 --> 01:27:27,720 I have all 5 hard drives hooked up my computer. 1787 01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:29,480 Bill, I'm showing you Ghost Adventures clips. 1788 01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:32,040 That's what happened. I had people in my apartment, 1789 01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:34,960 not on my side of the family, other side of the family back 1790 01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:36,680 then are like, what are you going to do with that? 1791 01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:39,680 It's like, go make, go get a job, make money. 1792 01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:43,000 And I was overqualified. I couldn't get a job for 1793 01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:45,560 production companies in Las Vegas at the time. 1794 01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,760 Isn't that funny? I, I was high honors graduate, 1795 01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:52,200 top of my class. I was the only one who knew back 1796 01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:56,400 then how to digitally use a Panasonic camera to operate for 1797 01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:59,040 films. And I, I like you know, if you 1798 01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:02,120 talk to me about that stuff, I can, I'm like photographic. 1799 01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:05,480 But like I couldn't even get a job coming out of college and I 1800 01:28:05,480 --> 01:28:07,520 said screw this. I was working at Comp USA. 1801 01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:10,400 You remember that place, Comp USA electronics store. 1802 01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,640 And I, I was making ghost ventures and I'm like, screw 1803 01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:15,480 this. I was getting $400.00 like every 1804 01:28:15,480 --> 01:28:18,920 week or something. I like, I quit and I just went 1805 01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,040 after it and I was like, this is all I'm going to do. 1806 01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:24,120 And I just grinded on Ghost Ventures documentary, kept doing 1807 01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,960 it, kept doing it. And I couldn't even like I was 1808 01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:28,240 like, all right, we entered the film fest. 1809 01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:31,120 What are we going to do now? No one was seeing it was on the 1810 01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:33,600 news and stuff. So I someone gave me a Hollywood 1811 01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:35,840 agency book, right? Remember those things I? 1812 01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:38,200 Bet it was the Hollywood Creative Directory. 1813 01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:40,240 Yeah, it was like a it was like a gift or something for my 1814 01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:42,040 birthday. I was like 150 bucks someone 1815 01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:43,280 gave me and I was like, it's screwed. 1816 01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:45,480 This is what I'm going to do. I started reading through every 1817 01:28:45,480 --> 01:28:47,640 agent, everything, and I just started cold calling all of 1818 01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:49,440 them. Like I got the best documentary, 1819 01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:51,320 every university, and I was rapid firing. 1820 01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:53,360 And then someone said, oh, come show it to me. 1821 01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:54,960 And that's how it all kind of that's. 1822 01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,960 How I have to do it, man, The the getting your start and it 1823 01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:00,480 just shows you, you had to be tenacious to, to get your start 1824 01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:03,000 in this, in this that when I first moved out here, so I came, 1825 01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:06,440 I came out in LA. It was 96 and I didn't know 1826 01:29:06,440 --> 01:29:09,880 anybody and I got my start by back then. 1827 01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:12,200 This is pre 911. I could sneak on the film lots. 1828 01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:14,720 And I had that very book, that Hollywood creative director who 1829 01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:16,480 told me where all the production companies were. 1830 01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:20,280 And I would drive up to the lot And I had, I kept a clipboard 1831 01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:23,760 and a bunch of fake padded envelopes on my, and I roll up 1832 01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:26,720 to them and I go, I just, I'm making deliveries, dailies or 1833 01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:29,480 whatever scripts and they're like, just go, 'cause I was like 1834 01:29:29,480 --> 01:29:31,680 21, you know, literally, literally 21. 1835 01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,080 And I drove on, I'd walk to the production company and I'd go, 1836 01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:35,760 I'll PA for you for free for a day. 1837 01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:37,800 If you if you like me, you can hire me for the rest of the 1838 01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:38,760 shoot. And that's. 1839 01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:41,360 How I started as a as. A dude that's that's it. 1840 01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:46,400 I've worked every position. I was APA on a horror film in 1841 01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:48,560 Vegas at one time. I was APA on. 1842 01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:52,920 Remember that show inked that dude that was on for one day. 1843 01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:54,840 First of all, wait. Did it? 1844 01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:56,200 Did it? Wasn't that? 1845 01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:59,320 First of all I created inked. Yeah, no. 1846 01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:02,960 You're talking about you're talking about the Heart and 1847 01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:05,200 Huntington Tattoo Parlor at the Palms Hotel. 1848 01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:07,520 Hotel. I was part of the team that I 1849 01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:09,160 was part of, the team that created that show. 1850 01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:12,760 I was at Fox TV Studios at the time, so we were working with. 1851 01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:14,680 Oh my. God, I'll give you, I'll give 1852 01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:16,920 you the quick history of it. So we were work. 1853 01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:19,200 That was the time. So the restaurant just came out 1854 01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:22,440 on NBC with Mark Burnett. Then there was a thing called 1855 01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:24,920 the nightclub that came out. That was in Vegas. 1856 01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:26,640 They that was another show on Spike. 1857 01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:29,760 So we had this guy John Huntington that we had to deal 1858 01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:31,080 with. These producers brought him in 1859 01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,800 and we were going to do a show about he owned the pimp and hole 1860 01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:36,320 ball that used to run at the Mandalay Bay, right? 1861 01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,040 And he was like, he would be setting up. 1862 01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:41,520 This was a giant rave event, travelling rave event. 1863 01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:43,960 We're like, OK, let's see if we can do something like that 1864 01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:46,840 behind the scenes and set it up. We're setting up pitch meetings 1865 01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:48,720 for that. And he's like, I can't make it 1866 01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:49,760 to that. I go, we're like, why? 1867 01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,280 He's like, oh, well, we're we got a, a meeting about our build 1868 01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:54,960 out for our tattoo parlor. I'm like, what do you mean? 1869 01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:56,560 We what? What is this tattoo parlor? 1870 01:30:57,440 --> 01:31:01,400 I'd always wanted to do another big show at the time was Taxicab 1871 01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:02,720 Confessions, if anybody remembers. 1872 01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:06,160 Yeah, Yeah, I always wanted to do tattoo confessions. 1873 01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:08,400 And it was just people telling their stories. 1874 01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:11,040 And so it's like, OK, what is this? 1875 01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:12,600 So we found it. I'm talking to the producer. 1876 01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:14,840 So like, can we do a show here? And then he was partnered with 1877 01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:18,200 Carrie Hart and we did it. We made a one hour build out 1878 01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:21,560 show and then it turned into like a three season thing that 1879 01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:23,920 had multiple spin offs. And then you had Miami ink, 1880 01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:27,240 which is a RIP off of us. And then but we started, I 1881 01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:33,120 started the whole tattoo with these with these producers that, 1882 01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,480 you know, brought that to us. And it was just a wonderful 1883 01:31:35,480 --> 01:31:39,960 experience and and a weird one because we learned first of all, 1884 01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:42,360 the tattoo stories were like boring as shit. 1885 01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:46,080 People get tattoos for like 3 reasons, which is like a death, 1886 01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:49,280 a child or the death of a child. Those are like the three main 1887 01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:52,680 reasons people get tattoos that we found out and in vague and it 1888 01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:54,120 turned out. Drunk, yeah. 1889 01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:57,280 Drunk, yeah, and. Then why did I get? 1890 01:31:57,280 --> 01:31:59,440 And then we learned real quick that the the artists were 1891 01:31:59,440 --> 01:32:03,600 really, you know, characters of themselves in Vegas, you know, 1892 01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:06,080 And I mean, it was like. That's cool, man. 1893 01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:07,480 See. This money that you were on that 1894 01:32:07,480 --> 01:32:10,440 for a day. Small world coincidences, no 1895 01:32:10,440 --> 01:32:12,760 coincidence. And this was full circle coming 1896 01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:13,720 around. Here we are. 1897 01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:17,840 But I worked on it for one day. What was I doing out of college? 1898 01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:22,600 Buddy of mine, you know, and I was APA and I took it because I 1899 01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:26,280 was like, oh see, I want to be in the scene of the film makers 1900 01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:28,400 making stuff. Like I wanted to be around that. 1901 01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:32,640 So I thought, oh, if I take this job, any film thing I was on, I 1902 01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:35,520 want to take get on those because I was making my own 1903 01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,960 stuff. But I come to find out, like I 1904 01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:41,240 got up there, I was like, where the Hell's the office? 1905 01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:44,120 So I go up the elevator, I'm trying to find the office and I 1906 01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:45,920 walk in, think it's going to be exciting and fine. 1907 01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:48,120 I'm working with cameras behind cameras and stuff. 1908 01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:49,760 That's on my back wall behind. Me. 1909 01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:51,360 Oh, that's sick, man. Yeah. 1910 01:32:51,440 --> 01:32:54,960 See, that's supposed to be. That's how funny is that this. 1911 01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:58,200 Is meant to be I, I literally get in the room right, to take 1912 01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:03,200 the job and she's like, oh good, you're here OK with any #2 1913 01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:04,640 pencils, we're going to need notepads. 1914 01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:06,440 We're going to blah, blah, blah, blah and goes down a laundry 1915 01:33:06,440 --> 01:33:09,320 list. I'm like, OK, and I never did 1916 01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:12,000 this before. So I was like errand boy. 1917 01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:16,120 So I went off, went around town. It took me like, whatever. 1918 01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:18,880 And I come back and she's like, oh great. 1919 01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:21,360 And I'm like, this really is not for me. 1920 01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:24,560 I'm not errand boy. And I literally, I finished the 1921 01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:26,640 day I wasn't a jerk and just walk off right? 1922 01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:31,320 I I, I held through, got through it and I just, I told her, I 1923 01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:32,600 said, look, I'm not going to be coming back. 1924 01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:35,360 And I was just straight, I'm like, I need to be making films. 1925 01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:38,520 I like this is not me, man. This is that it might be cool 1926 01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:42,360 for some people, but I did PA stuff, but I found out really 1927 01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:44,680 quick, that's not me. I need to be. 1928 01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:46,520 They're like shooting cameras or behind. 1929 01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:48,400 They're doing my own thing or and that's what I did. 1930 01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:49,640 I just went off. I'm like, screw this. 1931 01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:52,120 I'm just going to go and do it. And that's what I started doing. 1932 01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,000 Good for you and it worked out. Thank you for doing that. 1933 01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:57,120 Thank you for quitting and starting. 1934 01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:01,400 Thank you for, you know, being a founder of a genre, you know, 1935 01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:06,760 that really has shaped really what most people know of, you 1936 01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:09,840 know, to their either to their benefit or detriment, what most 1937 01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,680 people know of as how to investigate, you know, that's 1938 01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:17,040 what they go to. It is it is a you ghost hunters 1939 01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:20,640 are really sort of the OG Bibles of what people of all. 1940 01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:22,360 Yeah, I appreciate it and it's true. 1941 01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:28,080 There's really no denying that. I am a big person on always 1942 01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:32,200 treat everybody on a film set good because you never know who 1943 01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:36,280 that person's going to be next. So always treat people because 1944 01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:39,680 I've seen some real I've met some shitty people, man, like, 1945 01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:42,800 you know, a treat just P as or people just terribly. 1946 01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:46,120 And I'm always like, man, you never know who's going to be 1947 01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:49,960 like, you know, imagine if I was working on Inked and you're 1948 01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:53,800 like, where's my #2 pencil If you're there and you got. 1949 01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:55,160 Pissed. Then as soon as he gets off, 1950 01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:56,720 I'll be like, dude, I fucking fired. 1951 01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:00,920 As soon as Nick leaves John, I'll be like, dude, I'll be 1952 01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:03,040 like, dude, I do remember Nick. I fucking fired him. 1953 01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:04,960 He brought fucking #1 pencils. This. 1954 01:35:05,480 --> 01:35:07,440 What an idiot. You got the wrong pencil, yeah. 1955 01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:11,040 You you want a pencil short. I mean, it's like 20 years 1956 01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:11,920 later. How? 1957 01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:14,640 Hard is it How hard is it to find a number 2 pencil? 1958 01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:16,800 This idiot could This kid couldn't bring it back. 1959 01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:19,360 It's like get rid of. Him turn me into an Eraserhead. 1960 01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:22,720 Yeah, 2020 years later, here we are. 1961 01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:25,360 And you're I'm like, I'm not doing this podcast show. 1962 01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:28,840 It's you, the number 2 pencil. I never forget you, you son of a 1963 01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:32,600 bitch. You took my #2 pencil. 1964 01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:35,320 That's all about the contractions. 1965 01:35:35,440 --> 01:35:39,400 I want my $2.00 you. Know, but you know, I get I 1966 01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:42,880 quit, I quit APA job. It was a commercial PA job where 1967 01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:46,280 I had to do like 150 like whatever I had to do printouts 1968 01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:49,640 and then staple them and then I stapled them and then the the 1969 01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:52,360 coordinator took like this stack of things that I stapled 1970 01:35:52,360 --> 01:35:55,600 together and correlated and goes, I don't like the staples 1971 01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:57,800 like this. I like them at an angle. 1972 01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:00,200 Can you redo it? And I said absolutely not. 1973 01:36:00,480 --> 01:36:02,120 And I fucking left. And that was just that. 1974 01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:03,760 That was the, that wasn't the reason. 1975 01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:05,600 That was the straw. Like that was the one that broke 1976 01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:07,640 the candle's back. It was like a day of, of 1977 01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:10,040 meaningless nonsense. Like she was just completely 1978 01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:11,720 rude. And it was almost at the end of 1979 01:36:11,720 --> 01:36:13,600 the day anyway. And she's like, I need you to 1980 01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,160 undo all the staples and re staple them so the staples 1981 01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:18,160 aren't straight but at an angle. And I'm like, there's no fucking 1982 01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:19,080 way I'm doing it. And I'm not like. 1983 01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:22,400 I've seen all sorts of stuff, like I've filmed Oh man, 1984 01:36:22,440 --> 01:36:24,360 everyone Penn and Tellers, Sickfree and Roy. 1985 01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:27,720 Like I've been like behind scenes and filmed them. 1986 01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:32,200 I used to do, but I went to like production company in Vegas as I 1987 01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:34,440 was doing Ghost French, as I was doing other production companies 1988 01:36:34,440 --> 01:36:36,960 because I launched my own stuff and I was doing the red carpet. 1989 01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:40,640 I was filming all of them for like on Sigfried and Roy's Heart 1990 01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:43,080 Association that they did. So I put that whole video 1991 01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:47,160 together for them when he got mailed by the the tiger and 1992 01:36:47,160 --> 01:36:49,480 stuff. So I did all that stuff with all 1993 01:36:49,480 --> 01:36:52,560 those people. I've seen some weird stuff and 1994 01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:56,640 you know, it's interesting what I realized and going back to the 1995 01:36:56,640 --> 01:37:00,240 paranormal ghosts and we live die in the in between kind of 1996 01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:02,680 what we're talking about energy and people and how they are. 1997 01:37:03,480 --> 01:37:05,760 It's interesting what I've learned through my quest because 1998 01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:09,640 I've met all walks of life from massive celebrities. 1999 01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:14,200 Like I've I've chilled with Bert Kreischer, you know, comedian 2000 01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:16,800 there. Like he has that laugh just like 2001 01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:21,680 he does and like I've chilled with a lot of people and it's 2002 01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:26,160 interesting, man. Like how fame, money and stuff 2003 01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:29,280 can just alter somebody. I think people are always kind 2004 01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:32,880 of like that in the in the beginning in a sense, and they 2005 01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:34,920 lose themself even worse as they go. 2006 01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:37,120 And I've seen it all from top to bottom. 2007 01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:41,560 And in just talking about life, I say just be a good person, 2008 01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:45,320 man, because like, you never know what happens when you die. 2009 01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:49,040 And that transitional phase and that positive to positive, 2010 01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:52,200 negative to negative, and the certain things that come full 2011 01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:54,640 circle around everything is energy. 2012 01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:56,520 So what you put out is what you're getting back. 2013 01:37:57,480 --> 01:38:00,520 And it's a tough life to live. Everyone goes through their own 2014 01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:05,720 situation challenges. They have to conquer one thing 2015 01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:09,240 after another, depending on if it's personal or whatever it is 2016 01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:12,240 on your path. But I think ultimately just be a 2017 01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:14,760 good person because like you never know who that PA is going 2018 01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:16,720 to be. You never know what you know 2019 01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:19,800 something turns out to be or or it could bite you in the ass in 2020 01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:22,320 the ending part, you know, on that transition. 2021 01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:24,360 So. Listen, man, I don't want to. 2022 01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,840 I want to end on that. There's no way to top that. 2023 01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:31,240 That's listen, Nick, that was thank you so much. 2024 01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:33,640 I am asking. So much fun Nick So. 2025 01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:37,720 Much fun, I really appreciate you giving us the time. 2026 01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:39,240 Yeah, not. Really. 2027 01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:40,800 I could talk to you guys for hours. 2028 01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:46,040 Nick Roth, John. Awesome, awesome dude. 2029 01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:49,440 I mean, I can't speak enough enough. 2030 01:38:49,440 --> 01:38:52,680 What a what an excellent interview that was. 2031 01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:54,600 What an excellent guest that was. 2032 01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:57,600 What an honor to have him on. You are 100% correct. 2033 01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:02,480 You say he is one of the, you know, forefathers of the entire 2034 01:39:02,480 --> 01:39:05,040 paranormal, Chandra. You know what he is, dude. 2035 01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:08,080 I mean, he's like, you know, listen and look, you know, I 2036 01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:09,640 would love to have Zach on the show. 2037 01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:13,000 We're, you know, just to be clear, we are not in any camp. 2038 01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:18,920 We are, we're, we're curious, but you know, his feelings are 2039 01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:20,960 valid. And I, I, I can certainly, you 2040 01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:24,200 know, I can certainly believe I, I don't have any reason to 2041 01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:27,200 believe that what he's saying is not true about any of it. 2042 01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:32,000 It's really sad when friends like that have a falling out 2043 01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,560 after a decade of making greatness. 2044 01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:40,720 And it's really good to see Nick thriving and. 2045 01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:43,760 Yeah, I was about to say that he's thriving and he seems to be 2046 01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:47,320 in a very good place about. All yes and so he has every 2047 01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:50,400 right to talk about it I don't think it's sour grapes the way 2048 01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:53,160 he talks about it no, I think in fact at. 2049 01:39:53,160 --> 01:39:54,400 Times. It was almost like he was 2050 01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:57,600 speaking highly of them, you know, like, at least that's what 2051 01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:00,840 I gathered from it all. Of course there's disappointment 2052 01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:03,800 and, and it's it's like he's, you know, it's not a good scene 2053 01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:07,480 to get, you know, for all that to happen to him, but. 2054 01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:13,000 He is in a good place and he is a great storyteller, moving on 2055 01:40:13,480 --> 01:40:16,720 and working hard at something. But you know, wow, for him to 2056 01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:18,520 share all that with us is really. 2057 01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:20,680 That was great. That was awesome. 2058 01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:23,200 He's a good dude. And it's like him and his wife, 2059 01:40:23,480 --> 01:40:25,960 I, it's like, yeah, I could see them being really fun. 2060 01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:27,800 You know, I'm looking forward to their new shows and their. 2061 01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,720 Paranormal power couple. They are a paranormal power 2062 01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:33,440 couple for sure. For sure. 2063 01:40:33,480 --> 01:40:35,880 It's going to be great to see what they come up with next, you 2064 01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:37,600 know? Well, you know what else is 2065 01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:39,840 going to be great to see What comes up with next? 2066 01:40:40,480 --> 01:40:43,640 Splintered Spirits. What guys do a lot of good 2067 01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:44,920 stuff. What? 2068 01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:46,320 What? What? 2069 01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:47,640 All right, my man, that was a great one. 2070 01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:49,440 That was a great one. Awesome. 2071 01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:51,240 All right, guys, we'll see you next time, dude. 2072 01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:54,480 Later, guys. Well, that's it for another 2073 01:40:54,480 --> 01:40:57,560 episode of Splintered Spirits. Be sure to like, share, and 2074 01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:00,760 subscribe to our YouTube channel, Spotify, or wherever 2075 01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:04,440 you get your podcasts. Until next time, stay curious.