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Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's in 
a very same way. 

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It would be like the videos of 
the those adults who capture the

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foul balls and steal it out of 
the hands of the child, right? 

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Welcome to Splintered Spirits, a
podcast hosted by me, Gary and 

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my nephew John Santa from Santa 
Paranormal, where I follow 

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Johnny as he tries to prove his 
theory that ghosts are the 

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fractured memories of the 
living. 

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Today, we're joined by someone 
who has spent years chasing 

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mysteries that blur the line 
between science, myth, and the 

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unknown. 
Mark Marinaccio is an executive 

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producer and showrunner best 
known for his work on The Secret

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of Skinwalker Ranch, where he 
guided the series through one of

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its most ambitious seasons. 
Mark comes from a family that 

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set the stage for this kind of 
work. 

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His mom is a sensitive, often 
described as a psychic, and his 

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dad is a lifelong sci-fi fan. 
That mix of intuition and 

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imagination runs through his 
career. 

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Mark cut his teeth as a producer
on the original Ghost Hunter 

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series, then stepped into the 
heart of Skinwalker Ranch to 

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oversee experiments that tested 
the limits of science and 

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storytelling. 
His work has redefined how we 

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see the paranormal on television
and has positioned him as a 

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leading voice in chronicling the
unexplained. 

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We'll talk to him about what it 
takes to capture the unfilmable,

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how he balances science and 
scares in his own storytelling, 

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and how his own background and 
intuitions inform the way he 

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approaches the unknown. 
Let's dive into the 

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conversation. 
We're soldier that the ghost 

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hunters caught years ago. 
Yeah, yeah, maybe. 

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You know, we'll see if I get 
lucky enough. 

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We're talking about Gettysburg. 
It seems like, you know, Mark, 

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we, we've, we were trying to 
figure out like what the seven 

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wonders of the paranormal world 
are. 

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You know, Gettysburg seems to be
one of those top places and 

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you're, you know, as a producer 
looking for places to shoot, 

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what would you say the top ghost
or paranormal spots outside of 

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the ones you've done or, you 
know, what are including the 

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ones you've done, What would you
say they are? 

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Well, I think that, you know, 
when I started out in the in the

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paranormal TV world, my very 
first shoot was in Ireland with 

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Ghost hunters. 
And we did a place called LEP 

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Castle, which was built in 
something like, yeah, year 100 

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by the druids. 
And that was my very first time 

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out, you know, on on the show 
and on a real ghost hunt 

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investigation. 
And it's the kind of place 

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where, and I've experienced this
multiple places since then where

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you walk through the door and 
you want you just feel like you 

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want to throw up, right? 
I mean, it's just so thick and 

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heavy with just horrors that 
occurred there. 

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And that place, you know, gave 
me the creeps. 

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And you know Gary as a producer.
Because they're Irish. 

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Right, of course, right. 
Because of the food really being

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Italian, it was the food that 
was like, I can't eat this stuff

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now. 
The the you know, as a producer,

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you know that you're trying to 
make sure you capture whatever's

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going on, But you know, me being
who I am in my background and 

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where I come from, I can't help 
but be sensitive to it. 

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I which I ultimately we can get 
into it. 

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I ultimately turned into my 
skill set which made me good at 

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what I do, but let castle was 
crazy I think. 

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Estes Park and Stanley. 
The Stanley Hotel in Estes Park,

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Co, where Stephen King got the 
inspiration for The Shining. 

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That was on the. 
List yeah, I produced the first 

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Ghost Hunters live there. 
It was my first time there. 

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That's where I had my first 
experience doing doing the 

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shows. 
That place is like a, you know, 

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a playground. 
But there are places that I 

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think have such a a wide variety
of strange occurrences. 

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I mean, Skinwalker Ranch is a 
place I tried to get to for 15 

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years. 
Yeah. 

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We're going to get into that one
too, in a deep way for sure. 

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Yeah, I mean, I, I places I 
haven't been that I'd like to go

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investigate in this way. 
The pyramids in Egypt. 

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I think that for some reason 
there's something really 

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interesting there any kind of 
ancient temples like Angora Wat,

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you know, there's a there's a 
theory that about structures 

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being built in quote UN quote, 
power centers, which may open 

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the doors, let's say, or or thin
the walls or the open the 

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windows to these experiences 
more than others places. 

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I haven't been that I don't ever
want to go to Waverly Hills 

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Sanitarium. 
Like I am not interested in that

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place. 
I did Pennhurst Asylum for 

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world's biggest ghost hunt, 
spent two weeks there and you 

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know, there wasn't enough 
showering I could ever do to to 

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feel clean after that. 
I don't know if you ever saw the

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movie Silkwood. 
Sure. 

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It's like, yeah, yeah, you. 
Know like trying to like? 

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Clean. 
I'm clean. 

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That's what it felt like in a 
place like that. 

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Well, is that why, why, why 
don't you want to go to Waverly?

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What is it? 
Because you're, you're, is, you 

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know that you go in there. 
You it, it's so haunted that 

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you're it's going to stick to 
you. 

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I don't like the way I 
physically feel when I'm in 

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those locations. 
I see. 

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OK. 
It's very uncomfortable. 

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It's like I said, I literally 
feel nauseous, like I want to 

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throw up and like I'm being, I'm
being worked over. 

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You know, I just, you get a, a 
high level of just physical and 

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mental exhaustion. 
And that's not everybody, but 

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that's certainly me. 
And like I said, I, I used it as

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a, as a skill to my advantage 
throughout my career. 

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But you know, I get, you know, 
even here where I'm at now on 

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Amelia Island, there's a, you 
know, quote, UN quote, haunted 

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bookstore. 
And I went over there and I was 

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like, what, you know, what's 
what's the deal? 

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Haunted? 
And they're like, oh, yeah, 

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here's the stories. 
People see this little girl. 

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I'm like, where's it upstairs? 
I'm like, let's go up there, 

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walk up the, you know, the old 
wooden creaky steps to like the 

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loft. 
And I'm not joking. 

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You halfway up the stairs. 
Like, I was like, oh, and the 

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woman that's with me is like, Oh
my God, she could see on my arm 

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full of goosebumps and all the 
hair standing up. 

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And, you know, similar feeling 
to the Lizzie Borden house, 

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right? 
That's good. 

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Spot. 
We didn't come. 

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We didn't think of that Spot. 
Sure. 

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That place, I mean, they're, 
they're fun, right? 

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But I don't, I don't, you don't 
need a place to have had 

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horrific tragedy, to have some 
sort of paranormal or anomalous 

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activity. 
Right, Mark, do you think you 

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get this feeling? 
Did this come from your mom? 

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Yeah, on that side of the 
family. 

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Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

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And my mom, you know, and I 
don't know, John, if you know 

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this, but my, my mother is in 
the 70s, just called it psychic,

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right. 
And it's not something I really 

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even knew about until I was, you
know, 7 or 7 or 8 years old. 

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But she's always been sensitive 
psychic. 

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I mean, she practice it not for 
money, but with a group. 

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And she wouldn't meditate and 
find lost things. 

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She got, she got real bad 
migraines all the time and 

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literally the the light bulbs 
will blow out. 

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Electronics don't work for her. 
She became a hands on Reiki 

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healer and practitioner and 
passed that on. 

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But she would, you know, always 
see the spirits of where we 

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lived. 
And and when I moved to 

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Philadelphia from New Jersey, we
lived in like 100 plus year old 

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house and she would see the 
people. 

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She would do past lives 
aggression and she would do 

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national projection. 
And you know, she's in her 80s 

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now, so she's still very 
sensitive to things. 

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But back then it was like, you 
know, it was heightened. 

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And then my dad, although he 
was, you know, a businessman who

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worked in Manhattan, loved 
science fiction television. 

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And so I grew up with a psychic 
mom and a sci-fi loving dad. 

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And I hopefully tell people I 
never stood a chance to do 

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anything else other than what I 
do for a living. 

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Right. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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Came from her. 
You know, it's, it's it's really

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funny because we met another 
buddy of mine is, you know, I 

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did an interview with, I don't 
know if you know Mike Dorsey. 

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He's a documentarian. 
He actually used to work for me 

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over at Discovery, but he's like
comes from a a different sort. 

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You know, his background is like
hardcore doc almost I I don't 

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want to say news, but it's 
really sort of historical 

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documentary, right, and truth 
telling investigative place. 

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You're coming from a background 
as a believer as, as really sort

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of been in that world though, 
right? 

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Yeah, Experiencer, I mean. 
OK, an experiencer. 

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So what do you do? 
How did that, how do you bring 

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that into a television 
production when you got to deal 

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with what's real and deliver 
against network notes? 

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Right. 
So, you know, it's important to 

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understand that I became a 
storyteller because of my 

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interest in the unexplained in 
science fiction. 

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I didn't intend to do the 
unscripted world, but my 

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interests were always in 
creating, you know, let's say 

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science fiction or the 
paranormal esque television 

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series. 
I mean, that's that was I, you 

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know, when the Internet came 
out, I built in file on UFO and 

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aliens like on day one. 
It's always been my interest in 

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sort of the reality of the 
unknown and using my, my pursuit

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of being a storyteller to be 
able to understand, uncover, 

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explain some of these things. 
So when I got the chance to just

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jump into Ghost hunters, I was 
like, obviously very excited 

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about like, I'm going to go see 
a ghost. 

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But one of my skills has always 
been, and I've always told, you 

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know, networks and producers 
this, I don't need to fake 

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anything. 
It's not necessary because 

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especially when you do it for so
long, I'm consistently the only,

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you know, producer, show owner, 
creator who's never left the 

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paranormal and been doing it 
for, you know, 25 years now, 

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let's say almost 25 years 
specifically in that genre. 

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So it's a really good skill 
developed over time where I can 

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look at data first and foremost,
look at the information to set 

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up the best chance of success, 
right? 

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So the location, types of 
occurrences, frequency, most 

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recent atmospheric conditions 
during that history, history of 

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people investigating or sort of 
causing phenomenon to happen, 

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let's say how they did it, what 
were the tools? 

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And I just have a very natural 
instinct to see those patterns 

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and put them together and repeat
them. 

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Like, for instance, Skinwalker 
Ranch. 

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I went on to that show in Season
3. 

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And I noticed, you know, again, 
I read George Knapping Tom 

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Keller's book in 2005. 
And I was obsessed and tried for

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15 years to get there. 
And then when they asked me to 

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run the show, I said, oh, yeah, 
hell yeah. 

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That's the only show I'll go 
back in the field for. 

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But I, you know, not only the 
study and the information that 

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was available from prior to the 
show, but the two seasons they 

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had, you know, I went in and 
asked, hey, I see some things 

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that seem to trigger phenomena 
that you do, you know, first of 

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all, is it real, you know, or 
was it for TV? 

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And they're like, Nope, 
everything was real, which to 

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their credit, nothing at all on 
that show. 

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00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,880
Not a single thing gets faked 
whatsoever. 

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00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,880
And a lot of stuff just doesn't 
even get shown that can't be 

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00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,120
shown or that's not part of the 
story. 

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00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,360
So first and foremost, that's 
what's going on. 

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00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,240
And then, you know, but it's 
also led by legit scientists who

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are not going to, you know, get 
woo woo on something because 

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00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,800
it's got to be they got to go 
down a path that's got potential

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00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,360
to be measurable, right? 
If you if you're not going to be

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able to conduct, formulate an 
experiment to conduct an 

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00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,720
experiment to gather data that 
net and that potentially is 

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00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,640
repeatable or lead you somewhere
else, it's not worth it. 

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00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,960
So, you know, one of the first 
things I noticed was just how 

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rockets seem to trigger 
phenomenon when they're shot 

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00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,840
into the anomaly above the 
triangle. 

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00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,520
And you know, and that was 
something that Travis Taylor was

224
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,280
very, very keen on and big on 
and, and loved doing. 

225
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:35,160
And it was great that we were 
able to just lean into that and 

226
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,000
it and it triggered phenomenon. 
Now in other other projects, 

227
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,680
I'll walk into a room and just 
get feel like I got punched in 

228
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:48,360
the stomach. 
Then my eyes will water and I'll

229
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,640
get, you know, the tingles and 
and, you know, goosebumps and 

230
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:58,240
I'll say get the cameras up and 
and things happen and then get 

231
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,520
caught. 
But going back to setting 

232
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,040
yourself up for the best chance 
of success, knowing how you 

233
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,680
produce those things, you know, 
often times when you're making, 

234
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:13,680
let's say, sales tapes or even 
pilots with new companies that 

235
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:17,080
don't do this sort of thing, 
there's way too many people in 

236
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,360
the space. 
It's like, no, we have to be 

237
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,720
minimal footprint. 
We have to be quiet, get 

238
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,640
everybody out who's doesn't need
to be here. 

239
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,880
No fumbling, no ACS running 
around following the camera. 

240
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,640
Like you just can't do that. 
It's got to be, you know. 

241
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,760
That's an assistant cameraman 
for anybody who doesn't know 

242
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,520
what he's. 
Yeah, you can't have people 

243
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,520
running and following. 
And of course everybody wants to

244
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,360
kind of follow around because 
it's like, oh, I want to see 

245
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,920
what happens. 
But generally, and I learned 

246
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:47,240
this on Ghost Hunters, you know,
it was a camera operator, the 

247
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,240
two lead investigators, myself 
and an audio guy. 

248
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:56,200
And the audio guy almost always 
was outside of at least the 

249
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,080
room, if not the building when 
he could be. 

250
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,200
And it was just us in the space 
all the time. 

251
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,800
And you take time. 
Nothing can be rushed. 

252
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,920
Mark, is there a difference in 
how you approach a show? 

253
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,400
Like from what you learned on 
Ghost Hunters to a Skinwalker 

254
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,160
Ranch in these different, what 
if it's like, for example, is it

255
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,680
a different since we're dealing 
with like a different spirit or 

256
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,240
a different aliens versus is 
there a different approach to to

257
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,400
capturing this stuff? 
Yeah, I think that for me, what 

258
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,440
I've learned over the years is 
whether you're talking about 

259
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,960
ghosts, aliens, monsters, UFOs, 
in a way it's all the same 

260
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,600
thing. 
You know, it's these temporary 

261
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:41,200
windows or doorways to other 
spaces, places or times, let's 

262
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,480
say. 
So first it's about where you 

263
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,480
are and is that environment 
active in that way? 

264
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,280
Does it have the potential for 
that door window to open? 

265
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:58,120
Let's just say. 
So the approach is the same in 

266
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,640
that respect. 
But again, on Skinwalker Ranch, 

267
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,640
it was a, like I said, a 
scientific investigation. 

268
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:13,800
Whereas in ghost hunting it's OK
to use non scientific tools to 

269
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,520
help point you in a direction, 
right? 

270
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,840
So you know, you may want 
validation on a in a ghost hunt 

271
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,640
that you're communicating with a
spirit by getting that spirit to

272
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,080
give you information that you 
find is accurate in public 

273
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,120
record Skinwalker Ranch. 
We know the history, we know all

274
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,520
the records know all that, that 
stuff. 

275
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:40,360
You're not, you're not trying to
get information from someone or 

276
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,080
something else in that way. 
You're trying to collect data 

277
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,640
and understand the science, 
because I do believe it is all 

278
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,040
science. 
We don't understand. 

279
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,880
So that's that's one difference.
But now when you talk about the 

280
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,960
more traditional paranormal and 
I even this was even the case 

281
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,680
for my last show, alien 
encounters factor fiction. 

282
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:06,000
There's an emotional story that 
a personal story that a human 

283
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,600
story. 
That's very important because I 

284
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,880
have two goals to accomplish 
when I'm making those shows. 

285
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:17,440
The 1st is obviously the promise
I make to the audience as to 

286
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,400
what we're going to try to 
deliver on. 

287
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:25,400
Understanding explanations, 
answers, progress in in the 

288
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,200
field. 
The second is to the people that

289
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,840
are taking the risk of sharing 
their story. 

290
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,520
You know, one thing I'm very 
proud of is when I started on 

291
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,760
Ghost Hunters, people were still
very, you know, skeptical and 

292
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,960
resistant to come on the show. 
They didn't want the ridicule. 

293
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,280
They didn't want the attention. 
They didn't want to risk their 

294
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,840
job or their social circle or, 
or, you know, by the time I 

295
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,200
finished, you know, after three 
seasons on that show, by the 

296
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,480
time I finished, you know, if 
you said you had a haunted 

297
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,880
house, you had a line of people 
outside your door waiting to get

298
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,840
in and, and, and check it out. 
And so I really tried to do the 

299
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,440
same thing with the alien alien 
abduction, alien encounter, UFO 

300
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,040
phenomena. 
How do you not feel or get 

301
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:15,079
called crazy when you don't know
that you're not the only one 

302
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:20,760
with that same story? 
And by the more that I give 

303
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,119
people a platform to share their
stories, you know, not only is 

304
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,160
it cathartic for them and I and 
I hope therapeutic, which I 

305
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:33,640
believe it is, but also it, it 
reduces the chances of ridicule 

306
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,920
and it opens the door for more 
people to come forward. 

307
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,920
So there's always my two goals. 
Mark, what is what are some 

308
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,800
storytelling and I, for lack of 
a better word, as a producer 

309
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,960
tricks so that you can so the 
audience really the the audience

310
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,800
can experience your gut, you 
know, your stomach feeling like 

311
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,240
it's punched other than you 
saying it, which then you're 

312
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,840
that's what creates this idea of
well, is he full of shit or not?

313
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,560
So what are some story? 
What are some things that you do

314
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,400
when you're in the field, when 
you have great moments, human 

315
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,560
moments of people experiencing 
something that aren't very 

316
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,320
visual. 
How do you do that for ATV show?

317
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:20,640
I, I have to know the tools that
would be best suited to go from 

318
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,360
this is how I feel to let's 
capture, measure or interact. 

319
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,280
That's what it is. 
So as an example, on the Ghost 

320
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,160
Hunters International, we were 
at this old pub in England, 

321
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,080
like, I don't know, oldest, 
everything's the oldest place in

322
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,720
the world, right? 
So oldest pub in England, I 

323
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,760
forget. 
It was like a little haunted 

324
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:47,880
village and we had had our, our 
lunch break, which is, you know,

325
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,600
really past dinner time for 
people that I don't know. 

326
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,320
When you're doing a night shoot,
when you're doing any shoot 5 or

327
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,360
6 hours into the shoot, you 
break for lunch. 

328
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,040
It's called lunch no matter what
time of day because it's the 

329
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,440
first meal, the first break for 
a meal. 

330
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,960
And so we had taken our break 
and I was finished. 

331
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,840
You know, I always sort of 
finished early because I'm 

332
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,320
getting my ducks in a row, 
looking at my notes, looking at 

333
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,920
what the plan is for where we're
going to go next. 

334
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,920
And you know what, what's what, 
you know with the team, what's 

335
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,920
going to be focused on? 
And I walked back into the bar 

336
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,520
where we had just been. 
And one of the scenarios where I

337
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,120
felt like I got just sick and my
eyes started to water and I saw 

338
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:32,880
what was like atmospheric energy
haze kind of come in and move 

339
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,120
past the beer taps. 
And I said, everybody up, guys, 

340
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:41,280
get in here, get the cameras up.
Something's going down, you'll 

341
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,480
grab the EMF meter, right? 
And the reason I said that 

342
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,840
specifically was not just to 
say, Oh yeah, there's weird 

343
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,400
energy up in the air. 
But it's a good question and 

344
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,840
answer device, right? 
And based on the stories. 

345
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,680
Especially for TV, you could see
it. 

346
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,120
You could see it and you could 
hear it, right? 

347
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,040
Like a needle moves, it blinks, 
it beeps, whatever it does, all 

348
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,800
the things. 
But more importantly, you don't 

349
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,960
have to be with it. 
And I'll tell you why that's 

350
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,000
important. 
So you know the story. 

351
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,440
There was this guy Will, the 
bailiff, who was really 

352
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,520
intimidating and would sit 
people down in a chair and say 

353
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,880
you're going to pay your taxes, 
right? 

354
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,920
And that's sort of the area 
where he would sit people down 

355
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,320
that we focused. 
And so the decision was to. 

356
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:33,240
Place the EMF meter on a chair 
right in that spot and everybody

357
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,320
gets out of the bar. 
We set up cameras on tripods at 

358
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,320
the very opposite end of the 
room and zoomed in on the EMF 

359
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,240
meter and then an overview of 
the whole space. 

360
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,720
And this is important to 
eliminate the potential for it 

361
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,360
to be the radio signals, walkie 
talkies, you know, just anything

362
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:57,640
that we brought that's making it
go off and set up monitors and 

363
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,400
literally sat in the other room 
while the the investigators 

364
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,960
asked questions and got 
responses that were accurate. 

365
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,280
And it this went on so long 
enough for like an hour and a 

366
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,760
half that all of us asked 
questions. 

367
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,200
It became fun. 
The crew the P as were like, 

368
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,040
Hey, what about this? 
And like, you know, you would 

369
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,440
get answers that were, you know,
you can validate. 

370
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,280
So one of the tricks or you 
know, tools, I guess is you know

371
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,360
what's going to what's going to 
be visually a good signalling 

372
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,080
that something's going on. 
Spirit boxes are great, but 

373
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:38,720
they're really difficult for TV 
because it's just like John, 

374
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,880
it's just constant noise, which 
is why the Estes method works so

375
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,080
well, which is where, you know, 
the person putting this 

376
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,800
listening to spirit box has 
headphones on. 

377
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,000
And so nobody else could hear 
what the spirit box is saying. 

378
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,840
And then somebody else asks 
questions to the spirits, and 

379
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,240
the person with the headphones 
on who can't hear the questions 

380
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,240
repeats what the spirit box 
says. 

381
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,960
Now, first of all, that's now 
that's the second best answer to

382
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,680
the to the OR equally as good of
an answer to the essays method. 

383
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,480
So John and I talk about the 
essays method a lot because I 

384
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,560
think it's ridiculous. 
I've, I've always thought it 

385
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,720
looks silly as hell, like I 
never understood. 

386
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,480
It's it. 
There's a middle man. 

387
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,800
So it's like from a, from a, as 
a, if you're a skeptic or 

388
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,080
something and you have somebody 
in blindfolded headphones and 

389
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,920
they're plugged into the spirit 
box and I asked them a, someone 

390
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,160
else asked the question and then
they just say words. 

391
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,480
You know, it's like, how am I? 
Why don't I just hear the goat? 

392
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:33,760
I get, hold on, let me finish. 
It's like, why, why am I 

393
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,560
listening to the middleman? 
And we had another guest come on

394
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:43,160
who gave a great answer for, for
why she does it a lot, another 

395
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,800
ghost investigator. 
And it was like to avoid any 

396
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,320
pareidolia or outside influence 
to, to what you're hearing, 

397
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,200
which I thought was genius. 
And then what you're saying 

398
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,160
makes total sense because from a
visual television perspective, 

399
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:04,640
it, it looks wild and you don't 
have the audio problems of, of 

400
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,840
garbage when you're trying to 
edit and all this and everything

401
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,320
else. 
So they said OK, I'm starting to

402
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,960
slowly understand why people do 
this thing. 

403
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:16,000
But there's, there's, there's, 
you know, you also, you have to 

404
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,240
be true to the investigation. 
So you, you know, they're noise 

405
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,040
cancelling headphones, right? 
So there's no way that the 

406
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,320
person listening to the spirit 
box can hear the questions being

407
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,200
answered, but you also record 
the audio of the spirit box 

408
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,520
independently. 
Yeah, you have that splitter on.

409
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,320
There so that in in the in the 
edit, you can show you can play 

410
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,840
that, but you control the volume
and the ducking so that you're 

411
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,240
not it's not over everybody's 
audio. 

412
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,040
You're controlling it so that 
you can still show that it 

413
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,960
really was set on the box. 
Right, right, right. 

414
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,800
Right. 
Well, but those are like, I like

415
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,800
I, you know, I love that kind of
stuff, but I like visuals. 

416
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,720
I love visuals. 
That's that's my jam, I mean. 

417
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,240
It's a visual medium. 
Yeah, exactly. 

418
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,760
And so I feel like, you know, 
EVP and audio is, is great and 

419
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,720
it's valuable and it's more 
prevalent as far as the type of 

420
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,680
evidence you get. 
So you, you have to incorporate 

421
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,200
it, but there's always something
that's available, you know, 

422
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:20,880
that, that beeps or goes off or 
like, you know, when the, the 

423
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,840
Xbox Kinect was being used all 
the time, that would, you're 

424
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,720
looking at nothing, but it shows
a skeleton figure, you know, 

425
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,680
used in the right way and, and 
in certain environments, you 

426
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,000
could be like, whoa, that's it's
super creepy. 

427
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,680
R.E.M. pods, directional 
sensors, something that I like 

428
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,240
what people do is you put up, 
you know, almost like EMF trip 

429
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,800
wires. 
So it's something crosses its 

430
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,640
path, it goes off because also 
what you can do in the edit is 

431
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,720
you can build a map from these 
things showing where they're 

432
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,520
going off and what's what it's 
building, or you can, you know, 

433
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,280
you can actually take some of 
the information and convert it 

434
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,600
to be more easily seen and 
understood. 

435
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,840
I like, I like those sorts of 
things. 

436
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,520
I'd, you know, the, the night 
vision, thermal imaging, they're

437
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,040
always great. 
I'm not, you know, I, it's hard 

438
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:23,040
for me to really dive in to 
thermal imaging and night vision

439
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:29,080
as being more valuable for the 
investigation than than other 

440
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,920
things. 
Now, when you say, but is it 

441
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,440
when you say valuable for the 
investigation or valuable for 

442
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,920
the show? 
I think those are two separate 

443
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,040
things. 
Investigation, OK, very valuable

444
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,600
for the show. 
Right. 

445
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:47,480
It's creepy, it's creepy, it 
sets the mood and it's it's 

446
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,640
important for the show because 
it's not. 

447
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,880
Just try it. 
It is trying to present that 

448
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:57,520
vibe of creepiness and fear. 
But because that's the most 

449
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,440
accurate way to capture what the
investigators are experiencing. 

450
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,320
They are walking around in the 
pure dark in an environment 

451
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,640
unknown. 
And you know, so the night 

452
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:13,000
vision really does help bring as
best of a first person 

453
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:19,240
perspective that you can get. 
But I like photography. 

454
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,840
I think that film photography, 
you know, is still incredibly 

455
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:30,080
valuable. 
And you know, you can, you can 

456
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,040
process the image, the negative 
in, in different ways and then 

457
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,960
the print in different ways to 
eliminate, you know, certain 

458
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,560
levels of light spectrum. 
You can use infrared 

459
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,880
photography, you can use 
lighting, red lighting that 

460
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,760
slows down the visual 
wavelength, you know, so that 

461
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,240
you may capture something. 
But I also, I think some of the 

462
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,720
best visual evidence I've ever 
seen has been captured on film. 

463
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,120
And this is where the ghost and 
and alien realms sort of 

464
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:09,200
coincide or or sort of connect, 
which gives me, leads me more to

465
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,680
my sort of belief of 
interdimensional or 

466
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,720
transdimensional travel or 
entity versus, you know, dead 

467
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Uncle Joe. 
John just got a little excited 

468
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,880
when you said that, but we'll 
get into, I want to get into 

469
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:22,480
all. 
That just a. 

470
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,400
Little bit he. 
Got a little excited of him. 

471
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,880
I know him well enough that he 
was like he's, he just perked up

472
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:28,720
a little. 
He's got a little. 

473
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,800
Well, I'll give you an example. 
We we, you know, went from 6 to 

474
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,560
midnight. 
Well, in ghost hunting, you 

475
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,840
know, you don't, you see or hear
about shadow figures all the 

476
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,880
time and it's a very unique 
phenomenon, ghost hunting 

477
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,760
relative to, you know, full body
apparitions, partial 

478
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,880
apparitions, you know, something
that has detail. 

479
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,120
You know, we're talking pure 
black silhouette, but with 

480
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:55,160
masks. 
I saw I have a picture from an 

481
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,720
investigation done in the Hudson
Valley which was a UFOs alien 

482
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,520
invasion Hudson Valley. 
Were you going after? 

483
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,720
Were you going after the Hudson 
Valley boomerang? 

484
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,960
With everything, everything you 
can imagine in the Hudson 

485
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:13,840
Valley, but but more so looking 
for, you know, the Y, the 

486
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,520
connections, the spaces and 
found a place that had every 

487
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,360
sort of paranormal experience 
you could imagine, all in one 

488
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:23,760
old house and and multi 
generational. 

489
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,640
And they had a picture of what 
they thought was, you know, I 

490
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:34,200
don't know, a ghost or 
something, which looked like a 

491
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,320
shadow figure sort of barely 
creeping out from behind a wall 

492
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,320
into a doorway. 
Shit, you not. 

493
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:49,320
This thing looked like a tall, 
grey alien more than any other 

494
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,120
image I've ever seen of a ghost 
or an alien or whatever, and 

495
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,440
gave me the creeps. 
And, you know, it was in line 

496
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,960
with the experiences there, but 
it was captured on film. 

497
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,720
The bookstore I mentioned down 
the street, they have a picture 

498
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:11,160
up of that second floor haunted 
area that looks like a giant 

499
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,760
plasma ball. 
And you know, it's a print out 

500
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,280
right on on computer paper. 
And I'm like, I'd like to get an

501
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:20,760
idea of this, you know, I don't 
know. 

502
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,240
And then I look above it and 
there's the original print from 

503
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,440
a negative of it. 
And to, you know, and, and this 

504
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,280
is something I'm like, who took 
this? 

505
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,280
Like, well, we could, I mean, I 
got to find out like, we don't 

506
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,280
really know. 
It's old. 

507
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,240
I'm like, when was like, I don't
know. 

508
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,400
You got to find out. 
Because this orb, we'll call it 

509
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:46,200
an orb, was large, first of all,
but it had mass. 

510
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,160
It had parts of it you could see
through and parts of it you 

511
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,120
could not see through. 
And it had what looked like 

512
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,200
movement of energy, so different
colorations. 

513
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,960
It had, you know, a, a, a bit of
a ring around it of light. 

514
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,320
There was a light splash. 
It looked like it was actually 

515
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,480
pushing a wave of light out, 
which like maybe it's a lens 

516
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,080
flare, but you know, I know 
enough to tell them that's. 

517
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,760
Did they have a? 
Did they have a nuclei by any 

518
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,240
chance? 
Like a center. 

519
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,400
It I'm not sure that I would say
that I, I say that there could 

520
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:32,360
be a more dense part of it that 
wasn't, but you know, not 

521
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,440
positioned in the center from my
pers, from our pers, the 

522
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,280
camera's perspective, but it 
looked like it could, there 

523
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,840
could be a convergence point. 
I think, you know, blowing it up

524
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,160
more, maybe look. 
But I said, like, look, if this 

525
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,200
could be verified as not being 
faked, which isn't that 

526
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,560
difficult, I've never seen 
anything like this in 25 years. 

527
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,480
This could be the most 
astounding piece of evidence 

528
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,120
sitting in a bookstore in a tiny
island in Florida that anyone's 

529
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,600
ever seen. 
That's wild. 

530
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,600
That is wild. 
It's, it's, it's funny you bring

531
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,360
up Grey's, right? 
There was a time I'm on TikTok 

532
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:09,720
mainly. 
There was a time when I was 

533
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,240
constantly getting banned and 
I'd have to create up another 

534
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,400
account to go live. 
And what I would do is I create 

535
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,080
these videos. 
We're saying, hey, you know, 

536
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,680
make sure you're following me 
over here. 

537
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,960
My backup account, which I don't
have any more, but hey, follow 

538
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,160
me over here. 
So I'm doing a video and I have 

539
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,800
a mirror in back of me from a 
Victorian house. 

540
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,240
It's like a door mirror. 
And all the sudden now, not 

541
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,280
trying to do anything 
paranormal, you know, nothing's 

542
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,960
going. 
I don't have a spirit box going,

543
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,640
nothing. 
I'm just saying, hey, everybody,

544
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,360
please come over to here and 
watch me tonight. 

545
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,400
So I'm not going to be on this 
account all the sudden. 

546
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,040
You could. 
The audience can already see it.

547
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,000
It's almost like a selfie shot, 
right? 

548
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:53,880
They can already see it in the 
mirror. 

549
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,560
I don't notice it until it moves
and it directly looks right at 

550
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,400
me. 
I can only describe what I saw 

551
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,960
in this video and in this mirror
as a tall Gray. 

552
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,560
That's the only way I can 
describe it. 

553
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,720
If you saw it, you'd be like. 
I wanna see it first of all, I 

554
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,480
definitely. 
Yeah, yeah, I'll find the video.

555
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,120
I think I still have it on my on
my page, so I'll be able to pull

556
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,120
it up. 
But it is just, and you see it 

557
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,360
like, and what's crazy too is I 
am moving back and forth. 

558
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,040
OK, one can argue, oh, it's just
a light reflecting in the 

559
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,040
mirror. 
But when I'm standing still is 

560
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,040
when you see it turn its head 
and look right at me. 

561
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,640
Yeah, and it's, and by the way, 
that's an easy thing to 

562
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,520
determine just based on, you 
know, having multiple sort of, 

563
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,080
you know, images in a shot to 
see if it's one moving with the 

564
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:49,720
other or not. 
One moving Yep, Yep. 

565
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,400
So it was pretty it was pretty 
wild. 

566
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,800
So the whole alien spirit 
phenomenon is like a lot of 

567
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,280
people, you know, it's some 
people get religious with it, 

568
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,560
like all the aliens are demons. 
You know, I'm sure you've heard 

569
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,800
that before. 
You know which is which. 

570
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,400
Is like their demons. 
Yeah, a lot. 

571
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,040
Of people like their demons with
my documentation I'm coming 

572
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,880
across. 
Belief, though, there's a really

573
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,480
good reason for that Belief. 
That's a longer conversation, 

574
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,760
but. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. 

575
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,840
Well, I know there is. 
And it's wild. 

576
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,240
It is a wild conversation, but 
it's funny how it does intermix.

577
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,440
It really does, you know. 
Whoever you when you caught 

578
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,520
that, where was this? 
What was the location? 

579
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,520
So the location where I caught 
that is called Wesley Manor, and

580
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,200
it has it has a huge history. 
It was an outpost in the 1700s 

581
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,280
that got destroyed by the 
British during the Revolutionary

582
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,760
War. 
The Battle of White Plains took 

583
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,680
out the whole area. 
Then it got turned into a 

584
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,800
Victorian mansion. 
And then after that, it was a 

585
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,680
temporary hospital for the 
Spanish flu and then an 

586
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,360
experimental hospital that they 
ran experiments on, like, you 

587
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,360
know, in the 30s and then that, 
and then it turned into an 

588
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,200
apartment building. 
And it's been an apartment 

589
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,280
building ever since. 
Do you know what the very first 

590
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:16,120
either structure or use or 
gathering or settlement was for 

591
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,120
that location? 
Yes, yeah. 

592
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:19,520
And, and the walls are still 
there. 

593
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,199
They they built it upon, they 
bought, they built the Victorian

594
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,320
mansion on the outpost. 
So there's still the old 

595
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,320
fieldstone walls in the basement
next to. 

596
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,199
The Outpost. 
It was native land. 

597
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:39,480
OK, Was it was the location 
where the outpost used by, you 

598
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,400
know, the indigenous people for 
any specific purpose? 

599
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,760
Yes. 
What? 

600
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,159
What did they use it? 
For yes, so because of its 

601
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:53,239
height advantage, it was almost 
used as a not like an outpost 

602
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,320
for them, but the what they used
to do is make these roads that 

603
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,600
would interconnect and that was 
a spot where they would all a 

604
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,120
lot of the roads would connect 
almost like a meeting ground, if

605
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,960
you will. 
So, and I, and I'm going to, I 

606
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,640
would suggest that whoever the 
indigenous people were, if they 

607
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,880
were not the original inhabitors
of that land, there were people 

608
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,440
before them that focused on that
spot as well. 

609
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,600
And this is the reason I ask is 
there's the theory of power 

610
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,440
centers. 
There's Patrick Jackson who 

611
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,840
talked about it, a British guy, 
but. 

612
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,520
He. 
You know, when I was even in, in

613
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,560
Hudson Valley, we found places 
that were important to like, 

614
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,680
let's say, again, I think the 
druids or somebody, which is 

615
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,440
like, how'd they get over there?
You know, whatever. 

616
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:45,120
But areas, let's say where crops
grow twice as tall as any other 

617
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:51,640
spot where, you know, they, 
they, there's a practical value 

618
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,800
to early people, to that 
specific location. 

619
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:01,240
Then as you know, sort of humans
progress, other people find 

620
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,560
other value in that area, wind 
up taking it over. 

621
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,600
These become ritualistic sites, 
prayer sites, temples, churches 

622
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:18,280
and others continue to come see 
value in it, take it, build on 

623
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,200
top of it, etcetera, etcetera, 
until wherever you're at now was

624
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,520
not at all what was there 
before. 

625
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,400
But the reasoning why everyone 
focused on that is the same. 

626
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,680
It had a certain level of let's 
say power or energy, perhaps 

627
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,720
unseen, definitely not 
understood, but depending on how

628
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:41,200
far back you go, had practical 
value until portal. 

629
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,720
Nexus. 
Nexus, yes, and that's another 

630
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:46,440
thing the spirits talk about 
something called the Nexus 

631
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,520
Portal. 
Yeah, that's, that's there 

632
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,560
because why then churches and 
temples and prayer sites, 

633
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,120
because then it becomes, you 
know, the more esoteric or, or 

634
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,720
metaphysical, you know, value. 
Mark, when you say when you say 

635
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,240
Hudson Valley, you mean Hudson 
Valley, Westchester. 

636
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,920
New York. 
Hudson, NY OK, yeah, yeah, 

637
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,040
that's where I'm at right now. 
Yeah. 

638
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,840
So, you know, yeah. 
I'm in the lower Hudson Valley. 

639
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,960
Is it Pine Crest, the UFO 
capital of the world? 

640
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,680
I think it's Pine Crest or yeah,
yeah, we, we were, we were all 

641
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,320
over that area and it just 
creepy. 

642
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,240
Hollow buck out. 
You know all the the Hudson 

643
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:26,440
Valley has it all, you know. 
Poughkeepsie's got its own. 

644
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:30,360
You know its own thing when you 
go up now, up farther that way. 

645
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,880
Yeah, it's crazy. 
You know the the whole mystery 

646
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,520
of Tuxedo Park. 
Love Tuxedo Park? 

647
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,680
That really plays into the that 
really plays into the the UFO 

648
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,080
phenomenon. 
And I guess it was early, late 

649
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,240
80s and early 90s, I think, 
right, the boomerang and all 

650
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:45,680
that. 
But. 

651
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,200
That's why if you go to the if 
you go to Tuxedo Park and you go

652
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,960
say the Renaissance Fair, that's
where the Renaissance Fair is 

653
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,680
located for New York. 
Dude. 

654
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,760
You have the like postman 
walking around with shotguns, 

655
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,480
you know, blasting, you know, 
fake shots saying that they're 

656
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,400
hunting aliens, that United 
States Postal Service. 

657
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,520
The other thing and it's, they 
play into the whole, it's funny,

658
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,440
you know? 
They did a lot there, you know, 

659
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,960
brought over scientists during 
the war and whatnot. 

660
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,960
But that's, you know, if you 
follow the Hudson Valley, the 

661
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,000
the Barney and Betty Hill story 
in New Hampshire really is it's 

662
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,040
a it's a Hudson Valley story. 
It's, you know, way N New 

663
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,840
Hampshire, but it's part of that
entire connected stretch And 

664
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,080
that, you know, obviously that's
the the most one of the most 

665
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,840
incredible or first, you know, 
incredible UFO abduction 

666
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,760
stories. 
But the people we talked to, I 

667
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,400
mean, people who have never we 
went and took over the town and 

668
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,440
they give us full access to, you
know, commissioners, mayor and 

669
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,440
police chiefs who had stories 
that were like they never told 

670
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,320
anybody before. 
And they broke down while 

671
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:57,480
telling these stories because it
was just so, so jarring to 

672
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,960
everything they knew and 
understood practically and 

673
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,240
logically. 
And no matter how many decades 

674
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,640
past, it's as if it was 
yesterday for them emotionally. 

675
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,960
We didn't experience with 
experiment with a guy on his 

676
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,840
farm that we got to sort of 
serendipitously, he was not 

677
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,160
interested. 
We ran to his son on the streets

678
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,040
who his buddy told us about what
his son what his friend's dad's 

679
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:27,200
farm had experienced. 
And we went out there and he let

680
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,280
us, you know, he missing time 
and a weird sound and we were 

681
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,000
able to recreate the sound and 
try to blast it in the sky. 

682
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,400
And he went up walking out of 
the woods like a zombie when he 

683
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:37,920
heard the sound and didn't know 
why. 

684
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:43,120
It just really strange things. 
And then, you know, he's really 

685
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,680
private guy, but winds up 
telling us how he used to have 

686
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,000
tenants on the other side of the
of the the farm. 

687
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,000
And one night, you know, they 
just packed up and left. 

688
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,560
You never knew why. 
And then he was also, you know, 

689
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,280
the farm owner was also a long 
haul trucker. 

690
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,120
And he ran into the father of 
the family on a route once in 

691
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,320
another state and said, what? 
What? 

692
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,480
You know, why'd you guys leave? 
What happened? 

693
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,800
And the father told him that 
they constantly would wake up to

694
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,240
Gray aliens in their bedroom. 
And one night he got so freaked 

695
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:20,240
out by he was like, that's it, 
everyone, let's go, let's go get

696
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:22,280
out, everyone. 
Toronto, I believe in just we're

697
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,440
we're moving. 
Grab what you can. 

698
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,240
We're out of here. 
And they took off. 

699
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,480
And it wasn't until a few days 
into their to their trip to 

700
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,160
where they were moving that he 
had two young daughters who 

701
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,960
said, you know, daddy, we're 
really glad we moved from there.

702
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,520
We just didn't like the little 
Gray men in our room all the 

703
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,200
time. 
You know, that kind of shit. 

704
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:45,280
That's that's. 
Wild man, that's so let me ask 

705
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,560
you so so you know going going 
into what you were saying about 

706
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,720
these like I don't want to say 
power centers, but I'm going to 

707
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:53,600
use that word just so you know 
these these. 

708
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,280
Power places it's not 
understood. 

709
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,480
Science. 
There's no term for it, no. 

710
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,600
Yeah, these power centers, you 
know, especially like, you know,

711
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,000
talk about like the Hudson 
Valley. 

712
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,520
Do you think the Appalachian 
Mountains have anything to do 

713
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,280
with that? 
Because they run right through 

714
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,720
here, you know, like they, it's 
like that whole area, especially

715
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,920
the farther up in the Hudson 
Valley you go, you know, the 

716
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,960
higher up in the Appalachians 
you're going, if you're going 

717
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,760
towards the left, you know. 
Do you think that might have 

718
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,720
anything to do with it? 
I don't know if it's if it's 

719
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:29,760
called, you know if it's 
causality, right? 

720
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,160
I don't. 
I don't know if they are just 

721
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,520
involved in the same 
circumstance or phenomena or 

722
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,280
there's something more present 
or triggering there. 

723
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,720
It's really hard to say. 
I haven't studied Appalachian 

724
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:49,840
enough, you know, Appalachian 
Mountains enough to say that is 

725
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,960
a cause of anything necessarily.
OK. 

726
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,200
Hey, Mark, I, I want to ask you 
a couple more questions on just 

727
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,040
capturing this stuff. 
And then I want to get into your

728
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,960
sort of this interdimensional 
theories you have. 

729
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,840
But you know, as a storyteller 
and I think a lot of our 

730
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,160
audience, look, there's a lot of
there are a lot of as like to 

731
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,160
say ghost hunter babies out 
there on the Internet. 

732
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,600
You know, I mean, there, there's
a lot of people who are out 

733
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,720
there, you know, investigating, 
you know, John will tell you 

734
00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:19,600
he's not an investigator. 
He just documents. 

735
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,280
He really just goes out and just
experiments and documents stuff.

736
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,240
But he's not a full, a full 
forced investigator like someone

737
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:28,680
who's out there really using 
different techniques and 

738
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,720
different things. 
That's not his bag, but there 

739
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:36,520
are some who do, and they're 
getting it from the shows that 

740
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,600
arguably you helped make. 
What are they getting wrong? 

741
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:45,640
What are they getting right? 
I think that I wouldn't ever say

742
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,680
wrong. 
I think that what I learned 

743
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,640
first and foremost on Ghost 
Hunters, which was the most 

744
00:42:52,640 --> 00:43:00,800
important part of all of this, 
is to absolutely seriously look 

745
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,440
for a rational and logical 
explanation for whatever occurs 

746
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,920
before jumping to any 
conclusions. 

747
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,080
That's really, really important.
But that only comes with a 

748
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,640
certain type of knowledge. 
For those guys, for instance, 

749
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,280
they were plumbers. 
It was easy for them to figure 

750
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,440
out like if it was something 
like, you know, air in a, in a, 

751
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:28,600
you know, a pipe. 
So people, sometimes, some 

752
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,400
people, if they came into 
learning from TV shows later, 

753
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,800
there was not that level of 
debunking, let's say, or, or, 

754
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,240
you know, looking for a logical 
answer. 

755
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:46,840
And so people will tend to take 
anything that happens and then 

756
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,600
try to ascribe a paranormal 
definition to it. 

757
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,960
That's the problem is any kind 
of bias, you know, any kind of 

758
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,120
intent. 
You cannot. 

759
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,480
You know, of course, when 
something happens, you want it 

760
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,200
to be paranormal. 
Everybody does, everybody does. 

761
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,960
But if you don't first try to 
understand, you know, is it 

762
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:16,040
potentially paranormal or not? 
First, that's an issue. 

763
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:21,600
I think it gets sort of wrong. 
I think the other thing is, you 

764
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,320
know, and I don't look, I don't 
know if you know if this is how 

765
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,080
true this is of people, but I 
would say always staying current

766
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,720
with the field, You know what, 
what are people trying? 

767
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:33,000
What are they using? 
What is working? 

768
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,920
What kind of theories attached 
to actual science and 

769
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,000
explanations. 
Understanding the environment 

770
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,560
you're going into in a way that 
you would normally not have 

771
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:49,960
before will help you to cap 
trigger or even capture 

772
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,160
activity. 
And so sometimes people will go 

773
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,000
places and make nothing 
happened, nothing happened, 

774
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,440
nothing happened. 
Well, you know, it's good that 

775
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,480
you're not saying everything 
that you experienced was a ghost

776
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,000
or paranormal, but Are you sure 
nothing happened? 

777
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,800
Did you have the right tools? 
Did you look at the information 

778
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,560
or you know the activity in the 
right way? 

779
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,400
So I think that there's a 
tendency to be a little black 

780
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,920
and white about it being 
something or not being something

781
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,800
too early in the process. 
It should. 

782
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,280
There should be no positive 
negative. 

783
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,240
Is there a standardized, is 
there like a standardized data 

784
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:34,440
format that you would do like 
across every unexplained 

785
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,440
situation that, you know, if you
could standardize something, 

786
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,080
what would it be like? 
What would you tell these guys? 

787
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,640
Like, listen, you're going to go
out and you're going to be 

788
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,000
you're going to be a TikTok star
and you're going to be a ghost 

789
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,120
hunter. 
This is this is what how you're 

790
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,720
going to this is what you should
be doing. 

791
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,320
This is the standardized thing. 
Someone who's gone out and 

792
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,120
captured this shit. 
Here's what you should do for 

793
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,200
this format to make it feel. 
Let the that we know that it'll.

794
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,400
It could be legitimate. 
First of all, I think the most 

795
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,520
important thing is multiple days
and nights on location. 

796
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,600
That's really important. 
I think the first thing you 

797
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,360
should do no matter what, 
especially you start out in the 

798
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,120
daytime, is you spend time in 
the environment looking for 

799
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,760
stones and movement that occur 
because of age, you know, and 

800
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,680
location and weather. 
And so you clock that right. 

801
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,840
Like, OK, whenever they turn on 
the hot water over there, these 

802
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,080
pipes always bang. 
You know, there's always a 

803
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,600
garbage truck that goes down at 
at 3:00 AM. 

804
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,640
You know, there's always a, you 
know, bar letting out that's far

805
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,760
away. 
Or when the clouds are there, 

806
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,320
sound travels from here or 
there. 

807
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,840
There's always a blinking light.
Like look for all of these 

808
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,160
things that you can categorize 
early on before you're like 

809
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,960
doing a quote, UN quote, ghost 
hunt part of it so that you 

810
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,680
know, while you're in the 
investigation aspect that you 

811
00:46:54,680 --> 00:47:00,840
know that you know that is 
something that is natural or, or

812
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,360
part of the the regular and the 
norm. 

813
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:08,040
So you can quickly dismiss it 
because again, you have even if 

814
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,080
you could spend days, you have 
limited time. 

815
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:15,440
So if you go and chase down the 
sound and spend 6 hours with the

816
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,120
sound only to them find out it 
was a banging pipe, you lost out

817
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,640
on hours of investigation that 
would have potentially led to 

818
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:26,360
some actual evidence and 
documentation of legitimate. 

819
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:28,400
You know. 
Phenomena. 

820
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:31,800
Is there any is there anything 
that is that you ever found was 

821
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,920
a total waste? 
Like this is just horseshit 

822
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,120
Devices, tech or any any piece. 
None. 

823
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,560
I, I don't think any of it is a 
waste. 

824
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:48,000
I think it's about the right 
equipment for the environment 

825
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,560
and the encounters, you know the
the encounters that have been 

826
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,800
have happened there or have 
believed to have happened there.

827
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,240
I think that's that's what's 
important. 

828
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:02,720
Going into every location with 
the exact same tools I don't 

829
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:07,320
think makes sense. 
All right, Mark, let's get into 

830
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,720
let's get into some real deep 
shit. 

831
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:15,880
What do you think spirits are? 
Again, like I always have to 

832
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,760
preface this, I get obviously 
when people find out what I do 

833
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:19,880
with their first question is 
you. 

834
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:21,800
You believe in ghosts. 
Of course. 

835
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:27,160
We probably have very different 
definitions of the term, right? 

836
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:29,480
Tell me I I don't. 
You don't have to qualify. 

837
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,200
Don't give me the caveats. 
I want to know what Marc 

838
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,440
Maronaccio thinks. 
What is? 

839
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,120
What are spirits? 
Well, it's important because 

840
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:40,080
it's important because even the 
word spirit has a lot attached 

841
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,320
to it. 
Now I will say this, my career 

842
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:49,280
and my personal interest has 
always been bringing the 

843
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:54,920
unexplained and the science 
together to create an 

844
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,360
explanation that this is, you 
know, science and religion, 

845
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,200
let's say, or spirituality were 
once converged and they broke 

846
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:02,960
apart. 
And I think that they're need to

847
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,280
come back. 
And I spent something, I'm very 

848
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,200
proud of it. 
I spent a year in development on

849
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:11,320
a project about near death 
experiences and their survivors 

850
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,000
and what I learned from those 
first hand accounts from those 

851
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,400
near death experience survivors 
and what I learned about quantum

852
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:25,040
mechanics, specifically quantum 
entanglement, and then what I 

853
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:33,800
learned about consciousness. 
It's it's ridiculously obvious 

854
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:40,560
that there's a connection. 
And so spirit could be a lot of 

855
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,040
things. 
I don't think there's one 

856
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,720
answer. 
It could be many different, you 

857
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:48,840
know, paranormal or phenomena, 
right? 

858
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:54,040
But what I think happens is in 
almost every case of an 

859
00:49:54,040 --> 00:50:00,240
experience is there is a 
connection between the observer 

860
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:05,320
and the action, right? 
Let's call the action just 

861
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,000
stimuli, right? 
Whatever the the encounters, 

862
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,080
it's just stimuli. 
How is how are we interpreting 

863
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:12,760
that stimuli? 
How's the brain processing it? 

864
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,200
What do you see? 
How come one person could see a 

865
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,720
ghost and the other person can't
and they're in the same space? 

866
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:22,960
There's time manipulation. 
So what I believe is that, and 

867
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,680
if you don't know anything about
quantum entanglement, which 

868
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,000
everyone does, but the 
interesting to me about quantum 

869
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,160
entanglement is that it proves 
that there is an unobservable 

870
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,360
universe on top of our 
observable universe. 

871
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,440
Because our physics defines as 
meant to understand our 

872
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,320
observable universe. 
We can only measure, study and 

873
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:51,800
and and theorize what we can see
or experience or read and 

874
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,200
measure. 
But quantum entanglement, you 

875
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,280
know, give us this idea that 
well, we can't see the 

876
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,520
connection between the two 
things that affect each other, 

877
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,760
so it must exist outside of our 
observable universe. 

878
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,920
It is very very basic and not 
really super accurate way to 

879
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,320
describe it. 
Let's just say a connection 

880
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,520
exists from near death 
experience, survivors and their 

881
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:19,560
experiences. 
It mirrors this connection that 

882
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,240
then their their consciousness 
called soul, whatever has to 

883
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:30,560
call it source, right? 
This is in, in strict, you know,

884
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:34,520
use using basic sort of 
scientific terms or computer 

885
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,200
terms when they're in the 
process of dying and this tether

886
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,000
connects. 
It's as though not only is 

887
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:49,280
consciousness sort of going, but
information, the information of 

888
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,000
their life and their experiences
and everything is being fed 

889
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,840
back. 
So. 

890
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:57,960
When? 
I I, I got to dumb this down for

891
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,600
me, for this guy. 
So are you are are go? 

892
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,640
You're saying ghosts are a four 
spirits are a form of 

893
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,160
consciousness. 
I'm not saying that. 

894
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:12,160
I'm saying that what we are 
experiencing when you have, when

895
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,840
you see that is a connection to 
something somewhere or somewhere

896
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:21,200
else that's created through 
physics that we don't understand

897
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,080
or not even physics, science we 
don't understand. 

898
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,680
And I think that what we're 
experiencing and what we're 

899
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:34,480
seeing could be anyone of the 
following dead Uncle Joe, who, 

900
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,760
you know, never moved on and has
been hanging around to try to 

901
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,360
give a message or needs help to 
move on. 

902
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:49,800
Sure, possible. 
The impression that dead Uncle 

903
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:55,120
Joe left on the physical 
environment where he died every 

904
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,960
night, 11:00 I see a figure 
walked down the hallway 

905
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,000
disappearing on the wall. 
Well, for, you know, 70 years 

906
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,160
Uncle Joe lived there. 
That's like a classic. 

907
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,520
That's what, an imprint. 
An imprint. 

908
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:11,200
An imprint right just. 
An imprint OK intelligent would 

909
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,280
be interactive like it's 
something trying to communicate 

910
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,400
with you. 
I've seen poltergeist activity, 

911
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:24,160
which is seemed most likely to 
actually be young girls entering

912
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,680
puberty massive hormonal 
chemical changes in their in 

913
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,080
their body, but also their 
brains and it actually manifests

914
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:40,440
as things happening around them.
I I've seen and I've heard very 

915
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:45,800
detailed stories that suggest 
time, some sort of time slip, 

916
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,520
time dilation, where what you're
seeing is what hasn't happened 

917
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:55,000
yet, what happens like the next 
night, but you're seeing it the 

918
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:00,760
night before, which is humans 
doing something next night. 

919
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,960
And what you're seeing the night
before is that action, but not 

920
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,440
fully, you know, engage or 
develop, right? 

921
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,400
So you're seeing it's shadowy, 
it's distorted, it's, you know, 

922
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,560
just movement of energy. 
But it's exactly what someone 

923
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,520
did who didn't know about that 
story the next night. 

924
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,880
I think that if you're 
interacting in a space that's 

925
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,920
connected, you know, you could 
be interacting with scientists 

926
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,640
on the other side of the space 
trying to also understand it and

927
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,360
experience and explain it. 
And they don't know what you 

928
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,640
are. 
I have a story I tell which is 

929
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,560
imagine this old lady who lives 
in a house by herself and every 

930
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,000
day at 12 O clock, she hears 
what sounds like children 

931
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,200
running up the stairs in in her 
attic and laughing and giggling 

932
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,280
and thumping around and playing.
And it just freaks her out 

933
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:52,640
because she opens the door and 
nobody's there. 

934
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,680
She asked some paranormal 
investigators to come over and 

935
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,200
look around and they do an 
investigation. 

936
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,000
They say, yes, your house is 
absolutely haunted. 

937
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,480
There are spirits there. 
And she's like, they're freaking

938
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,280
me out, what can I do? 
And they say, well you have to 

939
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:06,840
let them know this is your 
house. 

940
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,720
And so next time you hear it, 
you stomp on those stairs, you 

941
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:13,240
walk up there, you bang on the 
wall and you say this is my 

942
00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:16,720
house. 
You say get out, get out. 

943
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:18,720
And you bang on the door while 
you're yelling get out. 

944
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,880
Next time she hears it, gets up 
the courage, walks stairs, 

945
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,600
stomps couple times, bangs in 
the wall and says get out. 

946
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,120
The sound stop. 
They never come back right Now 

947
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:37,600
imagine in another space, place 
or time, there are children that

948
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,280
every day at noon after their 
mother fed them lunch, they went

949
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,520
up to the attic to play. 
They go up there every day. 

950
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,960
That's their thing. 
That's their routine. 

951
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,400
That's what they do. 
And then one day while they're 

952
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,680
playing, they hear banging and a
voice say get out, and they 

953
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,440
never go back up there again. 
So my point to this is it's 

954
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:05,120
really important. 
What I believe is that time is 

955
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:11,440
is the virus in the equation 
that needs to be removed to 

956
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,480
understand phenomena, because 
it's not necessarily that. 

957
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,760
I believe a long time ago these 
kids were playing and now this 

958
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,120
woman's here. 
Yes, in our linear understanding

959
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:26,280
of our existence, maybe, but 
those events are happening 

960
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,680
simultaneously. 
OK, I understand. 

961
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:32,600
I understand. 
I want to talk about one of 

962
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,760
those scenarios that you talked 
about though a little bit more 

963
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,440
specifically, and that's Uncle. 
John. 

964
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:38,960
Oh, go. 
Ahead real quick, Gary. 

965
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:44,360
So, Mark, would you say that in 
everything that you just said 

966
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:51,480
that there is a transfer of data
happening on a quantum level? 

967
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:57,240
I think, yes. 
What I think is that what when 

968
00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:00,320
you're in a space that has 
activity, what you're actually 

969
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:05,760
experiencing is you're 
experiencing, let's say, the 

970
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,640
other side, the other element, 
whatever, whatever you're 

971
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:15,200
seeing, experiencing that is 
also experiencing you in real 

972
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:20,800
time in its space place or time.
Which when you think, when you 

973
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,800
look at sort of quantum, you 
know, quantum physics, you know,

974
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,640
and, and understand time being 
an issue. 

975
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,680
Let's say, you know, you're 
really, we do this in skid walk 

976
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,160
ranch all the time, space-time. 
It's just space-time. 

977
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,160
The one thing, it's not simple 
things. 

978
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,960
It's a thing, not a not a period
of duration. 

979
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,320
So what I think? 
To say, Mark, I'm sorry to cut 

980
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,040
you off. 
In the same way of trying to 

981
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,400
explain to somebody that if I'm 
sitting in this spot and you're 

982
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,600
running by and we look up at the
sky and we see something in 

983
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,960
outer space, say, you know, 
billions and billions and 

984
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,320
trillions of miles away, we're 
seeing that object at two 

985
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,840
different times, even though 
we're running in the same spot, 

986
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,040
You know, you're in the same 
spot, but I'm sitting and you're

987
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,480
running. 
You always say yeah, yeah, it's 

988
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:06,880
a. 
Businessman talk about that 

989
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,480
phenomenon all the time. 
You're looking exactly at the 

990
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,560
same pace, exactly at the same 
position. 

991
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,040
But movement, the speed and 
movement of the one person, 

992
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,680
actually means that they're 
looking at it at a different 

993
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,280
time. 
At a different time, yeah. 

994
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,360
Yeah, so, but look, look, 
honestly, look, I want to go 

995
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,240
back for a second to about to 
Uncle Joe 'cause you sort of 

996
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:28,800
took him and threw him to the 
side. 

997
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,760
Like there's Uncle Joe who's, 
you know, could be here waiting 

998
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,280
to send a message. 
And then he went on to these in 

999
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,040
depth things. 
What's Uncle Joe? 

1000
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,680
Uncle Joe, What is he? 
So. 

1001
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,960
Is he part of this time 
transgression or is there 

1002
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,000
something else? 
Is that a? 

1003
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,400
You know I do. 
A lot of work with mediums and 

1004
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:55,600
and there's what they say and my
issue with not even issue, but 

1005
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:02,200
I'm not sure yet that what a 
person is experiencing with dead

1006
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,920
Uncle Joe communicating is 
actually dead Uncle Joe 

1007
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,440
communicating because I just 
don't believe we exist fully in 

1008
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:16,240
that form once we pass. 
Or is it what Uncle Joe 

1009
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,440
impressed upon us and the 
environment? 

1010
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:26,600
So Uncle Joe is always here. 
He's always here and he may be 

1011
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,480
in ways that we don't even 
understand. 

1012
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,440
We're connected to him because 
of of DNA, of consciousness, of 

1013
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,360
whatever. 
And so Uncle Dead Uncle Joe 

1014
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:50,520
could be a projection from us of
our communication or connection 

1015
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:56,680
to what's left of dead Uncle Joe
in the environment or in US, 

1016
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,640
once his body and the rest of 
his consciousness has moved on. 

1017
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:00,960
It's almost like our. 
Memories. 

1018
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,040
It's almost like our memories 
are what you're describing is 

1019
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:09,800
like our memories of Uncle Joe 
are basically helping recreate 

1020
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,600
the man. 
Well, yeah, so. 

1021
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,080
In in a way, not to just kind of
way that there's importance and 

1022
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:23,000
value and there's something that
exists, but in a way that 

1023
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:28,400
connection between dead Uncle 
Joe's, you know, memory and the 

1024
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,000
energy he left, the impression, 
his genetics, all of those 

1025
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:38,960
things I think come together to 
create that that sighting in 

1026
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,280
that encounter. 
So the theory we play off of on 

1027
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,200
this on splintered spirits is 
really, you know, and based on 

1028
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:50,120
John's theory is you know, that 
spirits 1 theory is that spirits

1029
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:51,880
are the fractured memories of 
the living. 

1030
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,440
Basically, we all have 
electricity in us. 

1031
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,760
We all have energy in us. 
We certainly don't know how 

1032
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,000
consciousness works will be know
that that energy in the synapses

1033
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,040
are flying around in our brain 
and when these meat sacks go, 

1034
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,040
that energy has to go somewhere,
can't be created or destroyed. 

1035
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,320
Is it our memories and 
consciousness possibly attached 

1036
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,760
to that energy? 
That is something that we talk 

1037
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:18,120
about a lot and as possibly as 
what our spirits, right, It's 

1038
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:22,840
the memories that we're 
interacting with of the past. 

1039
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,600
Partially I'll say yes, I did. 
I think that I absolutely a 

1040
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:32,240
reasonable, you know, definition
as much as many others are, but 

1041
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,160
if not more, two things I'll 
say. 

1042
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,800
Philip Dick used to talk about 
this, a science fiction author 

1043
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,240
where he, you know, realized one
day that his dreams weren't 

1044
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:45,680
dreams, but they were him 
watching the other versions of 

1045
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,760
him in parallel universes and 
worlds and dimensions. 

1046
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:52,680
And he was, you know, bringing 
back the memory of of that and 

1047
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:58,000
creating stories out of it. 
And I say that because, you 

1048
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:02,920
know, in studying death, near 
death, scientists looked and, 

1049
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:07,280
and there's a lot of new, let's 
say, I don't know, evidence or 

1050
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:11,080
theory about where consciousness
lives in the brain and just nano

1051
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:15,520
micro, nano microtubulars 
tubules and have maybe qubits in

1052
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,840
them, right? 
These qubits, which is what we 

1053
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,320
used or what Google used to make
Willow, the quantum computer 

1054
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,000
that solved an equation by 
potentially accessing other 

1055
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,120
versions of itself and other 
universes. 

1056
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:34,440
So, right, So you know, this is 
where we get to again to 

1057
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,240
consciousness, quantum 
entanglement, quantum place. 

1058
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:44,680
I think that a big part of 
consciousness is this connection

1059
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,360
that we're making to all 
versions of us. 

1060
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:50,880
Well, it's fascinating. 
I just. 

1061
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:56,040
I agree with you on that, Mark. 
That is like it's huge. 

1062
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,240
It's when when you really think 
about it, I like what you said 

1063
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,680
before about now. 
Hold on, I need to illiterate 

1064
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,680
this very it's very important. 
When I document, I take 

1065
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,200
spiritualism and religion out 
right and I look at just from a 

1066
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,800
logical perspective. 
I do that for a a couple of 

1067
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,640
reasons, but mainly just for a 
different perspective. 

1068
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:16,640
We already have the religious, 
we already have the 

1069
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,800
spiritualism, you know, hey, 
what happens when an atheist 

1070
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,320
comes out here and do this? 
Let's see what happens, right? 

1071
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:24,480
That's the that's the the whole 
gist. 

1072
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:30,720
However, however, there's a 
point where religion, 

1073
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:37,640
spiritualism and science, you 
know, comes together and and you

1074
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,280
know, you were speaking about 
that and then something else you

1075
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,360
were talking about with the 
sci-fi aspect of it. 

1076
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:48,760
I mean, let's be real, the only,
the only real, you know, fiction

1077
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:54,120
that becomes non fiction is 
science fiction at the end of 

1078
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,880
the day, you know, that's what 
we have fridge, That's we have 

1079
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,520
fridge. 
That's that they talk to us. 

1080
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:01,160
Hey, your milk's going to go 
bad. 

1081
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:05,400
You know, like soon we're going 
to have replicators and people 

1082
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,400
are going to argue what's 
better, the process replication 

1083
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:10,560
or the actual processed food, 
you know? 

1084
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:14,400
And I think you, I don't think 
this is what you're saying that 

1085
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:18,200
you're not doing, but I think 
that, you know, spirituality and

1086
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,400
religion are an important part 
of the of this, of 

1087
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,920
investigating, understanding and
processing, but not perhaps not 

1088
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,560
in the way that we've been 
taught or meant to believe. 

1089
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:36,520
Look at it more like what can be
extracted and rewritten in terms

1090
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,520
that are more advanced than at 
the time, let's say the Bible 

1091
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:41,920
was written. 
If you believe it, if you wanted

1092
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,880
to say, I believe everything 
that's in the Bible, that seems 

1093
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:49,680
like a miracle and mystical and 
crazy and, and all that were 

1094
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,920
true. 
But take it out of the time 

1095
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:54,160
period. 
Take the people out of it. 

1096
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,680
Take out the, you know, the, 
the, the lesson that is imparted

1097
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,600
on you because of it. 
Then you'd start drawing 

1098
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,440
parallels to other phenomena 
that you know, and then the 

1099
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,280
science of those phenomena that 
you'd say, OK, wait a minute. 

1100
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:12,760
Maybe it's just, you know, man 
has written it in a way that 

1101
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:17,560
detaches it from where we are 
right now and far. 

1102
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:22,240
Well, what you're talking about 
also, by the way, guys, is what 

1103
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,560
past life aggressionists believe
absolutely 100%. 

1104
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,040
And past life is a, is a 
misnomer actually, as as I've 

1105
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,960
come to learn, they, they are of
the mindset of everything, 

1106
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,640
everywhere all at once. 
We are all on different 

1107
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,400
timelines traveling at the same 
time. 

1108
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,240
You're not looking at yourself 
in the past. 

1109
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,480
You're looking at yourself on 
another timeline that is 

1110
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,840
happening right now at the same 
or you know it it it's a very 

1111
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:49,760
different thing leading to there
is a higher self that controls 

1112
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,200
all of this, that that and that 
leads to spirit. 

1113
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:55,480
What spirit guides people that 
are trying, you know, these 

1114
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:59,440
other entities of some kind in 
this other space that could 

1115
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,920
potentially be helping you make 
decisions, whether you know it 

1116
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,080
or not. 
But it's this idea of we are not

1117
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:13,040
in a in a time in any given 
time. 

1118
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,960
At any given time, I think the 
best, one of the best practical 

1119
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,280
understandings of that is you 
look at emotional issues, PTSD 

1120
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:24,080
for instance, you know, 
flashbacks where or any other 

1121
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:28,280
emotional issues where you are 
experiencing the pain of 

1122
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:32,560
something as though it's 
happening to you right now, even

1123
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:37,320
though it happened in the past. 
You know what in our chemistry 

1124
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,960
and our makeup and our brain 
allows us to feel as though it's

1125
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,880
happening right now, even though
we see it as having happened in 

1126
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,520
the past. 
And science fiction would always

1127
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,680
say, well, you still exist 
there. 

1128
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,920
You're still experiencing it, 
right? 

1129
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,240
And that's to the same point. 
You know what? 

1130
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,600
And we, but we know on an 
absolute scientific level that 

1131
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:04,000
we experience things that our 
brain cannot determine, you 

1132
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:09,800
know, separate from right now or
having happened in the past. 

1133
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,880
It's like deja vu, you know, 
it's like deja vu. 

1134
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:18,440
I try to explain to people that 
the best evidence for our 

1135
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:24,160
multiversal selves is Deja vu. 
At that moment in time, we are 

1136
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:27,680
all, a lot of us are all 
resonating with ourselves in the

1137
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,560
multiverse. 
And it's like, wait a minute, 

1138
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,920
you know, I've done I've done 
this before. 

1139
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:33,680
I said this before, but I 
didn't. 

1140
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,920
Well, time might be a little 
different where the other you is

1141
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,320
you, you know what I mean? 
So and that gets into the past 

1142
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,920
life aggression and you know, 
you know all that. 

1143
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:49,120
Maybe Deja Vu is when multiple, 
you know, universes, timelines 

1144
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:52,920
mentioned, we're going to call 
them, are intersecting 2 of the 

1145
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:59,000
same point. 
So you know, you're both about 

1146
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:00,840
to or experiencing the same 
thing. 

1147
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,800
But because it's happening, sort
of it's like the idea of like 

1148
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:05,880
you can never, if you go back in
the future, you can never let 

1149
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,240
your old self see your new self 
or your explosive. 

1150
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,400
Maybe maybe Deja Vu is a 
simplified, less dangerous 

1151
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,120
version of that. 
You're experiencing same thing 

1152
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,680
as the other you at the same 
time. 

1153
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,399
So you're just super 
interconnected for a moment. 

1154
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,600
There's an emerging theory which
is incredible that you know, 

1155
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:30,399
there was this period where the 
human head grew to twice its 

1156
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:34,160
size in like 100,000 year 
period, which is unheard of. 

1157
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:37,800
It takes much longer that, but 
they see that in just this one 

1158
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:42,040
100,000 year period, the size of
the human head, the size of the 

1159
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,279
brain doubled. 
Oh, the magic ape theory, Right,

1160
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:46,840
You're talking about the Magic 
Ape theory. 

1161
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:49,720
Well, this is when, you know, I 
think it was apes. 

1162
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:51,399
This was this was a form of 
human, right. 

1163
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:52,279
Oh. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1164
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:58,479
But wonderful all or they found 
it was well, you know, it's it's

1165
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:06,160
man when they found mushrooms 
and began to ingest them and 

1166
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:10,080
small amounts heightened their 
ability to hunt. 

1167
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:16,479
So right away they're hunting 
better and they're providing 

1168
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,960
more protein, which is feeding 
the brain. 

1169
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:24,960
And then a little bit larger 
amounts created stronger bonds 

1170
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:29,640
between man and woman for 
procreation and progression. 

1171
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:36,680
Larger amounts created a more of
a cohesion of community. 

1172
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,120
So they started forming groups 
that stuck together, right, 

1173
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,920
Which then increased the amount 
of hunting and food and protein.

1174
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:50,920
And then very large amounts is 
what introduced abstract thought

1175
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:55,600
in a way, right? 
And all of those things combined

1176
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,240
with the protein, the fuel, so 
the brain firing neurons and 

1177
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,280
synapses in ways it never did 
before. 

1178
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,760
Plus it's getting fuel to build 
it like a muscle. 

1179
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:09,280
Boom, the brain just exploded. 
So I've had many experiences 

1180
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:16,480
when I was younger where I 
really felt, and this is what's 

1181
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,920
different from most people, not 
that I was somewhere or someone 

1182
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,800
else or experiencing the 
multiverse where I felt I was 

1183
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:29,320
actually in my own skin versus 
the rest of my life feeling like

1184
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:33,480
I'm not really here fully. 
That's wild, right? 

1185
01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:34,760
I'm a big believer in 
microdosan. 

1186
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,360
Weird death, experienced 
survivors. 

1187
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:40,000
Weird death experienced 
survivors hate Earth. 

1188
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:43,120
When they come back, they're 
like, this is the fucking 

1189
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,840
fantasy. 
This is the this is not reality.

1190
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:50,640
Where I went, that was reality. 
This is all just bullshit, you 

1191
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,520
know, story land. 
This is not real, which is why 

1192
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:56,440
they suffer these effects trying
to get back to the feeling and 

1193
01:10:56,440 --> 01:11:01,880
being back what they were before
and different issues because you

1194
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:07,000
know, they're very detached from
the here and now because they've

1195
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,000
sort of experienced it. 
And I every medium I've ever met

1196
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:14,160
and psychic ever met look like a
lot of them have had near death 

1197
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:15,880
experiences before they got 
their abilities. 

1198
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:19,920
The ones that say no, like 
really ask your parents. 

1199
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,640
They're like, oh, my God, I was 
dead for two minutes when I came

1200
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:24,960
out when I was born. 
I had to be revolved or, Oh my 

1201
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,000
God, I choked on something when 
I was a baby. 

1202
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,240
And then my dad had to like, you
know, slap my back, bring me 

1203
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,280
back, bring me to life. 
So there is a connection, I 

1204
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:38,160
think, with Ohio somehow, you 
know, and this could be trauma. 

1205
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:41,040
This could be, you know, death. 
This could be, I think, you 

1206
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:46,320
know, psychedelics. 
There is a way to get those, you

1207
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:51,000
know, consciousness fucking, you
know, I think, I think the. 

1208
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:58,360
Term, the term is called neutral
energy when I think I could be 

1209
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,000
wrong on this, but I think it's 
neutral energy when it talks 

1210
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:05,720
about the just the various brain
firing synapses, neurons doing 

1211
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:11,760
their thing and you know, 
fungus, fungi essentially 

1212
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:16,840
increasing that that neutral 
energy in the brain. 

1213
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:19,080
It's actually, it's actually 
pretty wild. 

1214
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:21,680
So listen, Mark, first of all, 
thank you. 

1215
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:23,280
You know, we've been here for 
over an hour and I really 

1216
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:24,920
appreciate your time. 
I got one more question for you 

1217
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:28,960
that I'd love to know. 
You know, as a, as a story, as a

1218
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,360
someone who did on skin worker, 
so many experiments, you know, 

1219
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,800
and someone who really obviously
has a passion. 

1220
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,040
What, what do you want to what 
was, what's something you'd want

1221
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:39,800
to do next? 
Like what is the thing you'd 

1222
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,840
want to test or try? 
Or what is that one thing? 

1223
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:48,160
How do you how do you keep the 
love of this passion you're in 

1224
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:55,040
and progress it? 
I honestly the next thing that I

1225
01:12:55,040 --> 01:13:04,360
would really like to see try to 
do is some form of verifiable 

1226
01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:06,680
interaction with the UAP. 
You know you mean. 

1227
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,200
One that, one that we're not 
firing rockets at. 

1228
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,560
Right, maybe not that. 
I mean, I we saw these at 

1229
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:21,520
Skinwalker Ranch all the time, 
the spherical UAP that seemed to

1230
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:25,720
appear and disappear whenever 
something was going on as if to 

1231
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:27,680
check on is this an issue or 
not? 

1232
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:33,760
I think that those are, you 
know, whatever's not us, 

1233
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:35,960
whatever's not man made. 
What's UAP? 

1234
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,120
Is this the new way to say UFO? 
Yeah, the new way to say. 

1235
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:40,960
Dude, they just released a 
video. 

1236
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:45,400
Of course it was overshadowed by
everything going on, you know? 

1237
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:48,680
But on the, I think it was the 
9th of September, they released 

1238
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:53,000
literally one of the greatest 
videos of Uaps we could see. 

1239
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:55,520
And what are they doing? 
They're shooting fucking 

1240
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:58,680
missiles at it and it's insane. 
What would it what? 

1241
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:02,240
What does UAP stand for? 
Identified aerial phenomena. 

1242
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,480
Identified aerial phenomena. 
There's actually a new term 

1243
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:07,000
actually. 
It's yeah, it's new. 

1244
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:10,920
But there's another new one. 
Yeah. 

1245
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,960
So that like, but, but how do we
know what we're looking at as a 

1246
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,360
UAP? 
Or how do we know we're not just

1247
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,040
looking at a test of the 
Hellfire missile trying to 

1248
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:23,400
connect with a different kind of
target, you know, and it's being

1249
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,720
fed to somebody to make 
everybody think it's UFOs. 

1250
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,120
I mean, this is what like 
Richard Doty and these guys did 

1251
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:32,000
back and, you know, the post 
Cold War and it's part of Mirage

1252
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:39,120
men like just feeding people UFO
stuff to try to, you know, use 

1253
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:44,800
it to bring bring out spies. 
And so we can, we can find out 

1254
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,160
who the spies are or to throw, 
you know, China, Russia off the 

1255
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:51,760
track of development. 
There's a, The thing is, 

1256
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:55,640
whenever, whenever the 
government releases something, I

1257
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,920
never take it at face value. 
I mean, for something to be 

1258
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,640
released, you know, it's usually
that's a multi year process with

1259
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,960
a lot of bureaucracy red tape. 
There's an, there's a proposal 

1260
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,800
for a, for an action, There's 
approvals. 

1261
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:13,800
There's, you know, everything 
from, you know, the forum into 

1262
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:16,840
the, whatever the theater is and
the, the casting and you know, 

1263
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:20,880
whatever it is. 
Things don't just go out like 

1264
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:25,080
that fast. 
It's a long process, which means

1265
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:29,120
many people are involved. 
And we know that the way that, 

1266
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,560
you know, the, the the 
government is compartmentalized 

1267
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:36,520
for for strategic purposes is 
this guy may have no idea why 

1268
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:40,040
this guy is giving it to him and
he's got to give it to that guy 

1269
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:43,840
or to say it's going out. 
So without knowing true 

1270
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,600
motivations, you know, even 
whistleblowers, and I'm not, I'm

1271
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:49,960
never going to come down and say
these guys aren't aren't legit. 

1272
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,080
IA 100% believe the 
whistleblowers. 

1273
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,880
But, you know, I do know that 
I've been told that sometimes 

1274
01:15:55,880 --> 01:16:03,400
whistleblower testimony is a way
in which people in government 

1275
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:08,840
politics of the military can 
legally and safely open the 

1276
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:12,640
books for organizations that 
they can't get access to 

1277
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,120
otherwise. 
Whistleblower comes out and says

1278
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,840
Lockheed Martin has UFOs. 
Suddenly Congress says, well, we

1279
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:21,360
demand an investigation. 
And now the government thought 

1280
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,400
Lockheed Martin was wasting a 
ton of money and stealing 

1281
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:26,480
taxpayer money, can actually go 
and look and see what their 

1282
01:16:26,480 --> 01:16:28,600
budget is and what they're 
spending the money on, but they 

1283
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:30,840
have no access to it otherwise. 
They're not allowed to. 

1284
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:34,800
So sometimes these are not even 
individuals as much as groups. 

1285
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,880
This is the plan, you know that 
This is why this person comes 

1286
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:39,680
forward. 
That's their duty, their job. 

1287
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:42,560
Sometimes they're pushed towards
that, maybe without even knowing

1288
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:45,480
that it's under someone else's, 
you know, someone else's need. 

1289
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,000
Sometimes it's all completely 
random and nobody's got any 

1290
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:51,280
control over whatsoever. 
But, you know, I just don't 

1291
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:56,040
think as a as a country, we're, 
you know, we've been able to 

1292
01:16:56,040 --> 01:17:00,160
stay so safe, well guarded, have
the freedoms and liberties that 

1293
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:04,840
we've had without there being a 
lot of work going on that we'll 

1294
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,720
never know about from people, 
you know, who are who are 

1295
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:12,160
running the country that maybe 
sometimes bleeds into this stuff

1296
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,080
and or doesn't. 
I like how we're ended on a 

1297
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,040
America. 
Yeah. 

1298
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:20,480
America. 
You know, you know $10,000 on 

1299
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,600
the Toilet Seat 5000. 
Dollars. 

1300
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,240
Paper cups, you know. 
But one thing that happened at 

1301
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:27,440
Skinwalker Ranch and we were 
always, I was always very 

1302
01:17:27,440 --> 01:17:30,600
cognizant of this. 
I'd never want to be the person 

1303
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:34,600
responsible for capturing 
footage of something that is, 

1304
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:39,960
you know, a a important piece of
military technology development.

1305
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:44,160
And I become the reason why, you
know, the rest of the world gets

1306
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:46,400
it. 
Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's in 

1307
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:50,160
a very same way. 
It would be like the videos of 

1308
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:54,120
the those adults who capture the
foul balls and steal it out of 

1309
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:57,400
the hands of the child, right, 
Right. 

1310
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,600
It's like that's that's Mark 
Marinach, Mark Marinachi 

1311
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:06,040
actually capturing UAP that 
turns out to be some high level 

1312
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:08,160
national, you know, defense 
secret. 

1313
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:12,000
It's the same as stealing the 
ball out of a child's hands. 

1314
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:12,880
And now? 
We're all doomed. 

1315
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,040
That's the issue. 
That's the issue with the field 

1316
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:19,360
is that the enthusiasm, the 
childlike giddiness, the just 

1317
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:25,440
the pure, you know, joy and fun 
and mind bending ideas that come

1318
01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:29,000
from exploring this, you know, 
you have to keep in mind 

1319
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,320
they're, you know, not 
everybody's out to get you 

1320
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,640
because they're keeping 
something private or secret. 

1321
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,600
You know, anything that I get, 
everybody in the world's going 

1322
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,280
to get, including North Korea, 
Russia, China, right? 

1323
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:46,440
I mean, you know, I may not 
personally agree with tactics 

1324
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:50,400
and operations, but it's also 
not for me to say, you know, I 

1325
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,600
sleep under the blanket of 
freedom they provide and not 

1326
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:55,840
necessarily the question the 
manner in which they provide. 

1327
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:58,760
Shield of America going on. 
Do you guys feel that? 

1328
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:01,200
Yeah, it's a few good. 
No, it's a few good. 

1329
01:19:01,480 --> 01:19:03,160
American. 
Shield. 

1330
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,600
But it is, it is tough like, I 
mean, because you see people who

1331
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:09,320
are like we, you know, the 
public has a right to know. 

1332
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,160
I'm like, says who? 
You know that? 

1333
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:17,240
That's you deciding what 
information should come out. 

1334
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:18,880
No, no, people can't handle 
dude. 

1335
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,080
Listen, one thing I've learned 
being in this world too, and 

1336
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,640
watching like just hearing the 
questions and seeing the fans is

1337
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:29,880
that America's pretty dumb. 
Like we're dumb and and 

1338
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:35,560
intelligence is a bell curve and
it that that peak is narrowing 

1339
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,720
and there's a lot of dumb on the
side and it's and it's they 

1340
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:41,720
don't need to know. 
They shouldn't they they, they 

1341
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:46,080
can't know. 
And I learned this from guys 

1342
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:48,760
that we had on the ranch, 
military guys and and other 

1343
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:52,040
people I've talked to before and
after that. 

1344
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:56,320
A lot of the issue with 
government disclosure of video 

1345
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,800
and images has nothing to do 
with what they captured, but 

1346
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:05,560
it's the technology we used to 
capture it just by showing video

1347
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:09,360
of a UAP. 
China, Russia, whoever, they can

1348
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:13,880
figure a lot out that, you know,
not only puts us at risk 

1349
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,640
technologically, but it could 
put servicemen, it could put, 

1350
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:19,800
you know, operators, it could 
put people at risk because maybe

1351
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,960
now they can figure out how much
we can see into their, you know,

1352
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:27,240
into their country or other 
places where we're in conflict. 

1353
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:31,840
You know, that the, the Tic Tac 
was shot in what, 2002? 

1354
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:36,120
And we got it in 2017. 
And, and when when those guys 

1355
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:39,480
came to Skimwalker Ranch, they 
said the UAPX guys who saw the 

1356
01:20:39,480 --> 01:20:41,560
Tic Tac retract it and clocked 
it. 

1357
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:44,480
They said, look, we can talk 
about anything from that day 

1358
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:48,640
except the technology used to 
capture TikTok, TikTok. 

1359
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:51,640
And I think that's important for
people to know it's yeah. 

1360
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:52,960
That's a that's a really 
interesting. 

1361
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:55,200
That's a really interesting 
point, right? 

1362
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:57,240
It's not about. 
It's just about the thing. 

1363
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:59,120
It's the thing that caught the 
thing. 

1364
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:00,480
It's the. 
Thing that caught the thing 

1365
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:04,680
yeah, that's why, you know, we 
see this we see this with our 

1366
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,240
with our day-to-day and like, 
for example, we all have 

1367
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:09,920
microwaves in our house, 
correct. 

1368
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:14,080
You know, microwaves that that 
came from NASA that was a NASA 

1369
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:20,600
invention that we didn't get in 
the general public until way, 

1370
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,600
way later. 
Same thing. 

1371
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:24,600
This tons of bitches. 
We're making this take an hour 

1372
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:27,640
to make a baked potato, man. 
You're gonna be doing it with 

1373
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:29,360
two minutes. 
Have you guys ever heard of 

1374
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:30,240
shark? 
Years. 

1375
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:32,840
Shark fittings? 
You guys ever ever hear of 

1376
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:35,080
these? 
If you're a plumber, basically 

1377
01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:38,560
what a shark fitting is. 
It's a quick connect to copper 

1378
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:41,920
pipe or Plex pipe or some sort 
of PVC. 

1379
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:45,880
It's a quick connect. 
It literally takes you cut, you 

1380
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:50,840
clean, you push in. 
It takes no brains and knocks 

1381
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:57,760
the time of fixing a leak down 
from 20 minutes to to under 3 

1382
01:21:57,760 --> 01:21:59,600
minutes. 
It is quick. 

1383
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:05,000
I think this came that 
technology came about back in 

1384
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:11,160
2015, 2014 available to the 
public. 

1385
01:22:11,440 --> 01:22:15,480
But NASA has had it since the 
60s, you know, and those are 

1386
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:16,800
just two small. 
Examples. 

1387
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:19,200
That's that's crazy. 
But you think about microwaves. 

1388
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:21,680
If microwaves came out too 
early, everyone would be cooking

1389
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,680
themselves. 
Everyone be cooking themselves 

1390
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:26,160
but you. 
Got all without all the, you 

1391
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:28,120
know, without all the safety 
safeguard. 

1392
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:34,840
But how long did it right for 
public use to know that it 

1393
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:37,400
wasn't dangerous? 
Yeah, and those are just simple 

1394
01:22:37,480 --> 01:22:38,280
things. 
Imagine the. 

1395
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:41,640
Basic technology that becomes 
military. 

1396
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:46,280
You have X amount of time for 
military use before you get you 

1397
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:49,520
know are able to take it to the 
public for consumer commercial 

1398
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:51,320
use. 
It's very wild to think of. 

1399
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:54,040
That's a great point, Mark, 
about the whole technology, man,

1400
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:58,080
That's, that's a a wild point. 
Yeah, and it'll be interesting 

1401
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:00,760
to see that if one day the tech 
actually catches up to what 

1402
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:03,720
we're all trying to do here when
we're exploring for the 

1403
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:08,720
consumer, I guess calling us the
consumers, you know, to 'cause I

1404
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:11,400
always say, look, guys, you 
know, man, if we had tech that 

1405
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:14,200
could talk to ghosts, the world 
as we know it would change. 

1406
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:16,320
So don't sit there and think 
that we're actually talking to 

1407
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:19,800
ghosts from an app on our phone.
It's a tool like any other tool,

1408
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:22,800
that's a piece of a puzzle that 
we can see in a picture that we 

1409
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:28,520
have to put together and think 
about until we really have, you 

1410
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:32,720
know, all the all of the pieces 
put together maybe can give us 

1411
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:35,680
some idea of what might be. 
I actually don't think the apps 

1412
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,880
on the phone are that bad 
because it's not like it's it's 

1413
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:42,040
still it's technology that has 
transmitters and receivers, 

1414
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:43,600
capacitors. 
No, no, I think they're great. 

1415
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:45,400
I think they're great. 
They're like John. 

1416
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:47,960
When I use them, I get nothing. 
When John uses them, he gets a 

1417
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:51,080
really dude, It's crazy 
specific. 

1418
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,360
This all leads to his magnetic 
things that I don't understand. 

1419
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:55,880
I think he's a witch, but that's
just me. 

1420
01:23:56,160 --> 01:24:01,000
But it's sort of this vibe of I 
think it's a piece of a puzzle, 

1421
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:03,960
like it's giving you a a 
painting you a picture that we 

1422
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:08,720
need other things to fill out. 
Mark, thank you so much. 

1423
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:10,480
I mean. 
It's really great we can sit 

1424
01:24:10,480 --> 01:24:12,080
here. 
All day we'll have to have you 

1425
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:15,240
back on as we learn more and 
keep going on this and any other

1426
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:17,760
things you work on or books or 
things like that, man, that's 

1427
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:19,720
like we want to read them, we 
want to talk about them. 

1428
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:22,960
It's it's really fascinating. 
You have a deep love for this 

1429
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:24,600
stuff and it was really great to
have you on. 

1430
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:25,680
I really appreciate appreciate 
your. 

1431
01:24:26,440 --> 01:24:26,840
Time. 
Thank you. 

1432
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:28,480
It was a pleasure. 
Thanks for having me on, guys. 

1433
01:24:28,480 --> 01:24:30,760
It was a lot of fun for me. 
Yeah, man, definitely. 

1434
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,880
It's been fun. 
Well, that's it for another 

1435
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:37,960
episode of Splintered Spirits. 
Be sure to like, share, and 

1436
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,120
subscribe to our YouTube 
channel, Spotify, or wherever 

1437
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:44,800
you get your podcasts. 
Until next time, stay curious.