Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's in a very same way.
It would be like the videos of the those adults who capture the
foul balls and steal it out of the hands of the child, right?
Welcome to Splintered Spirits, a podcast hosted by me, Gary and
my nephew John Santa from Santa Paranormal, where I follow
Johnny as he tries to prove his theory that ghosts are the
fractured memories of the living.
Today, we're joined by someone who has spent years chasing
mysteries that blur the line between science, myth, and the
unknown. Mark Marinaccio is an executive
producer and showrunner best known for his work on The Secret
of Skinwalker Ranch, where he guided the series through one of
its most ambitious seasons. Mark comes from a family that
set the stage for this kind of work.
His mom is a sensitive, often described as a psychic, and his
dad is a lifelong sci-fi fan. That mix of intuition and
imagination runs through his career.
Mark cut his teeth as a producer on the original Ghost Hunter
series, then stepped into the heart of Skinwalker Ranch to
oversee experiments that tested the limits of science and
storytelling. His work has redefined how we
see the paranormal on television and has positioned him as a
leading voice in chronicling the unexplained.
We'll talk to him about what it takes to capture the unfilmable,
how he balances science and scares in his own storytelling,
and how his own background and intuitions inform the way he
approaches the unknown. Let's dive into the
conversation. We're soldier that the ghost
hunters caught years ago. Yeah, yeah, maybe.
You know, we'll see if I get lucky enough.
We're talking about Gettysburg. It seems like, you know, Mark,
we, we've, we were trying to figure out like what the seven
wonders of the paranormal world are.
You know, Gettysburg seems to be one of those top places and
you're, you know, as a producer looking for places to shoot,
what would you say the top ghost or paranormal spots outside of
the ones you've done or, you know, what are including the
ones you've done, What would you say they are?
Well, I think that, you know, when I started out in the in the
paranormal TV world, my very first shoot was in Ireland with
Ghost hunters. And we did a place called LEP
Castle, which was built in something like, yeah, year 100
by the druids. And that was my very first time
out, you know, on on the show and on a real ghost hunt
investigation. And it's the kind of place
where, and I've experienced this multiple places since then where
you walk through the door and you want you just feel like you
want to throw up, right? I mean, it's just so thick and
heavy with just horrors that occurred there.
And that place, you know, gave me the creeps.
And you know Gary as a producer. Because they're Irish.
Right, of course, right. Because of the food really being
Italian, it was the food that was like, I can't eat this stuff
now. The the you know, as a producer,
you know that you're trying to make sure you capture whatever's
going on, But you know, me being who I am in my background and
where I come from, I can't help but be sensitive to it.
I which I ultimately we can get into it.
I ultimately turned into my skill set which made me good at
what I do, but let castle was crazy I think.
Estes Park and Stanley. The Stanley Hotel in Estes Park,
Co, where Stephen King got the inspiration for The Shining.
That was on the. List yeah, I produced the first
Ghost Hunters live there. It was my first time there.
That's where I had my first experience doing doing the
shows. That place is like a, you know,
a playground. But there are places that I
think have such a a wide variety of strange occurrences.
I mean, Skinwalker Ranch is a place I tried to get to for 15
years. Yeah.
We're going to get into that one too, in a deep way for sure.
Yeah, I mean, I, I places I haven't been that I'd like to go
investigate in this way. The pyramids in Egypt.
I think that for some reason there's something really
interesting there any kind of ancient temples like Angora Wat,
you know, there's a there's a theory that about structures
being built in quote UN quote, power centers, which may open
the doors, let's say, or or thin the walls or the open the
windows to these experiences more than others places.
I haven't been that I don't ever want to go to Waverly Hills
Sanitarium. Like I am not interested in that
place. I did Pennhurst Asylum for
world's biggest ghost hunt, spent two weeks there and you
know, there wasn't enough showering I could ever do to to
feel clean after that. I don't know if you ever saw the
movie Silkwood. Sure.
It's like, yeah, yeah, you. Know like trying to like?
Clean. I'm clean.
That's what it felt like in a place like that.
Well, is that why, why, why don't you want to go to Waverly?
What is it? Because you're, you're, is, you
know that you go in there. You it, it's so haunted that
you're it's going to stick to you.
I don't like the way I physically feel when I'm in
those locations. I see.
OK. It's very uncomfortable.
It's like I said, I literally feel nauseous, like I want to
throw up and like I'm being, I'm being worked over.
You know, I just, you get a, a high level of just physical and
mental exhaustion. And that's not everybody, but
that's certainly me. And like I said, I, I used it as
a, as a skill to my advantage throughout my career.
But you know, I get, you know, even here where I'm at now on
Amelia Island, there's a, you know, quote, UN quote, haunted
bookstore. And I went over there and I was
like, what, you know, what's what's the deal?
Haunted? And they're like, oh, yeah,
here's the stories. People see this little girl.
I'm like, where's it upstairs? I'm like, let's go up there,
walk up the, you know, the old wooden creaky steps to like the
loft. And I'm not joking.
You halfway up the stairs. Like, I was like, oh, and the
woman that's with me is like, Oh my God, she could see on my arm
full of goosebumps and all the hair standing up.
And, you know, similar feeling to the Lizzie Borden house,
right? That's good.
Spot. We didn't come.
We didn't think of that Spot. Sure.
That place, I mean, they're, they're fun, right?
But I don't, I don't, you don't need a place to have had
horrific tragedy, to have some sort of paranormal or anomalous
activity. Right, Mark, do you think you
get this feeling? Did this come from your mom?
Yeah, on that side of the family.
Absolutely. Yeah.
And my mom, you know, and I don't know, John, if you know
this, but my, my mother is in the 70s, just called it psychic,
right. And it's not something I really
even knew about until I was, you know, 7 or 7 or 8 years old.
But she's always been sensitive psychic.
I mean, she practice it not for money, but with a group.
And she wouldn't meditate and find lost things.
She got, she got real bad migraines all the time and
literally the the light bulbs will blow out.
Electronics don't work for her. She became a hands on Reiki
healer and practitioner and passed that on.
But she would, you know, always see the spirits of where we
lived. And and when I moved to
Philadelphia from New Jersey, we lived in like 100 plus year old
house and she would see the people.
She would do past lives aggression and she would do
national projection. And you know, she's in her 80s
now, so she's still very sensitive to things.
But back then it was like, you know, it was heightened.
And then my dad, although he was, you know, a businessman who
worked in Manhattan, loved science fiction television.
And so I grew up with a psychic mom and a sci-fi loving dad.
And I hopefully tell people I never stood a chance to do
anything else other than what I do for a living.
Right. Yeah, absolutely.
Came from her. You know, it's, it's it's really
funny because we met another buddy of mine is, you know, I
did an interview with, I don't know if you know Mike Dorsey.
He's a documentarian. He actually used to work for me
over at Discovery, but he's like comes from a a different sort.
You know, his background is like hardcore doc almost I I don't
want to say news, but it's really sort of historical
documentary, right, and truth telling investigative place.
You're coming from a background as a believer as, as really sort
of been in that world though, right?
Yeah, Experiencer, I mean. OK, an experiencer.
So what do you do? How did that, how do you bring
that into a television production when you got to deal
with what's real and deliver against network notes?
Right. So, you know, it's important to
understand that I became a storyteller because of my
interest in the unexplained in science fiction.
I didn't intend to do the unscripted world, but my
interests were always in creating, you know, let's say
science fiction or the paranormal esque television
series. I mean, that's that was I, you
know, when the Internet came out, I built in file on UFO and
aliens like on day one. It's always been my interest in
sort of the reality of the unknown and using my, my pursuit
of being a storyteller to be able to understand, uncover,
explain some of these things. So when I got the chance to just
jump into Ghost hunters, I was like, obviously very excited
about like, I'm going to go see a ghost.
But one of my skills has always been, and I've always told, you
know, networks and producers this, I don't need to fake
anything. It's not necessary because
especially when you do it for so long, I'm consistently the only,
you know, producer, show owner, creator who's never left the
paranormal and been doing it for, you know, 25 years now,
let's say almost 25 years specifically in that genre.
So it's a really good skill developed over time where I can
look at data first and foremost, look at the information to set
up the best chance of success, right?
So the location, types of occurrences, frequency, most
recent atmospheric conditions during that history, history of
people investigating or sort of causing phenomenon to happen,
let's say how they did it, what were the tools?
And I just have a very natural instinct to see those patterns
and put them together and repeat them.
Like, for instance, Skinwalker Ranch.
I went on to that show in Season 3.
And I noticed, you know, again, I read George Knapping Tom
Keller's book in 2005. And I was obsessed and tried for
15 years to get there. And then when they asked me to
run the show, I said, oh, yeah, hell yeah.
That's the only show I'll go back in the field for.
But I, you know, not only the study and the information that
was available from prior to the show, but the two seasons they
had, you know, I went in and asked, hey, I see some things
that seem to trigger phenomena that you do, you know, first of
all, is it real, you know, or was it for TV?
And they're like, Nope, everything was real, which to
their credit, nothing at all on that show.
Not a single thing gets faked whatsoever.
And a lot of stuff just doesn't even get shown that can't be
shown or that's not part of the story.
So first and foremost, that's what's going on.
And then, you know, but it's also led by legit scientists who
are not going to, you know, get woo woo on something because
it's got to be they got to go down a path that's got potential
to be measurable, right? If you if you're not going to be
able to conduct, formulate an experiment to conduct an
experiment to gather data that net and that potentially is
repeatable or lead you somewhere else, it's not worth it.
So, you know, one of the first things I noticed was just how
rockets seem to trigger phenomenon when they're shot
into the anomaly above the triangle.
And you know, and that was something that Travis Taylor was
very, very keen on and big on and, and loved doing.
And it was great that we were able to just lean into that and
it and it triggered phenomenon. Now in other other projects,
I'll walk into a room and just get feel like I got punched in
the stomach. Then my eyes will water and I'll
get, you know, the tingles and and, you know, goosebumps and
I'll say get the cameras up and and things happen and then get
caught. But going back to setting
yourself up for the best chance of success, knowing how you
produce those things, you know, often times when you're making,
let's say, sales tapes or even pilots with new companies that
don't do this sort of thing, there's way too many people in
the space. It's like, no, we have to be
minimal footprint. We have to be quiet, get
everybody out who's doesn't need to be here.
No fumbling, no ACS running around following the camera.
Like you just can't do that. It's got to be, you know.
That's an assistant cameraman for anybody who doesn't know
what he's. Yeah, you can't have people
running and following. And of course everybody wants to
kind of follow around because it's like, oh, I want to see
what happens. But generally, and I learned
this on Ghost Hunters, you know, it was a camera operator, the
two lead investigators, myself and an audio guy.
And the audio guy almost always was outside of at least the
room, if not the building when he could be.
And it was just us in the space all the time.
And you take time. Nothing can be rushed.
Mark, is there a difference in how you approach a show?
Like from what you learned on Ghost Hunters to a Skinwalker
Ranch in these different, what if it's like, for example, is it
a different since we're dealing with like a different spirit or
a different aliens versus is there a different approach to to
capturing this stuff? Yeah, I think that for me, what
I've learned over the years is whether you're talking about
ghosts, aliens, monsters, UFOs, in a way it's all the same
thing. You know, it's these temporary
windows or doorways to other spaces, places or times, let's
say. So first it's about where you
are and is that environment active in that way?
Does it have the potential for that door window to open?
Let's just say. So the approach is the same in
that respect. But again, on Skinwalker Ranch,
it was a, like I said, a scientific investigation.
Whereas in ghost hunting it's OK to use non scientific tools to
help point you in a direction, right?
So you know, you may want validation on a in a ghost hunt
that you're communicating with a spirit by getting that spirit to
give you information that you find is accurate in public
record Skinwalker Ranch. We know the history, we know all
the records know all that, that stuff.
You're not, you're not trying to get information from someone or
something else in that way. You're trying to collect data
and understand the science, because I do believe it is all
science. We don't understand.
So that's that's one difference. But now when you talk about the
more traditional paranormal and I even this was even the case
for my last show, alien encounters factor fiction.
There's an emotional story that a personal story that a human
story. That's very important because I
have two goals to accomplish when I'm making those shows.
The 1st is obviously the promise I make to the audience as to
what we're going to try to deliver on.
Understanding explanations, answers, progress in in the
field. The second is to the people that
are taking the risk of sharing their story.
You know, one thing I'm very proud of is when I started on
Ghost Hunters, people were still very, you know, skeptical and
resistant to come on the show. They didn't want the ridicule.
They didn't want the attention. They didn't want to risk their
job or their social circle or, or, you know, by the time I
finished, you know, after three seasons on that show, by the
time I finished, you know, if you said you had a haunted
house, you had a line of people outside your door waiting to get
in and, and, and check it out. And so I really tried to do the
same thing with the alien alien abduction, alien encounter, UFO
phenomena. How do you not feel or get
called crazy when you don't know that you're not the only one
with that same story? And by the more that I give
people a platform to share their stories, you know, not only is
it cathartic for them and I and I hope therapeutic, which I
believe it is, but also it, it reduces the chances of ridicule
and it opens the door for more people to come forward.
So there's always my two goals. Mark, what is what are some
storytelling and I, for lack of a better word, as a producer
tricks so that you can so the audience really the the audience
can experience your gut, you know, your stomach feeling like
it's punched other than you saying it, which then you're
that's what creates this idea of well, is he full of shit or not?
So what are some story? What are some things that you do
when you're in the field, when you have great moments, human
moments of people experiencing something that aren't very
visual. How do you do that for ATV show?
I, I have to know the tools that would be best suited to go from
this is how I feel to let's capture, measure or interact.
That's what it is. So as an example, on the Ghost
Hunters International, we were at this old pub in England,
like, I don't know, oldest, everything's the oldest place in
the world, right? So oldest pub in England, I
forget. It was like a little haunted
village and we had had our, our lunch break, which is, you know,
really past dinner time for people that I don't know.
When you're doing a night shoot, when you're doing any shoot 5 or
6 hours into the shoot, you break for lunch.
It's called lunch no matter what time of day because it's the
first meal, the first break for a meal.
And so we had taken our break and I was finished.
You know, I always sort of finished early because I'm
getting my ducks in a row, looking at my notes, looking at
what the plan is for where we're going to go next.
And you know what, what's what, you know with the team, what's
going to be focused on? And I walked back into the bar
where we had just been. And one of the scenarios where I
felt like I got just sick and my eyes started to water and I saw
what was like atmospheric energy haze kind of come in and move
past the beer taps. And I said, everybody up, guys,
get in here, get the cameras up. Something's going down, you'll
grab the EMF meter, right? And the reason I said that
specifically was not just to say, Oh yeah, there's weird
energy up in the air. But it's a good question and
answer device, right? And based on the stories.
Especially for TV, you could see it.
You could see it and you could hear it, right?
Like a needle moves, it blinks, it beeps, whatever it does, all
the things. But more importantly, you don't
have to be with it. And I'll tell you why that's
important. So you know the story.
There was this guy Will, the bailiff, who was really
intimidating and would sit people down in a chair and say
you're going to pay your taxes, right?
And that's sort of the area where he would sit people down
that we focused. And so the decision was to.
Place the EMF meter on a chair right in that spot and everybody
gets out of the bar. We set up cameras on tripods at
the very opposite end of the room and zoomed in on the EMF
meter and then an overview of the whole space.
And this is important to eliminate the potential for it
to be the radio signals, walkie talkies, you know, just anything
that we brought that's making it go off and set up monitors and
literally sat in the other room while the the investigators
asked questions and got responses that were accurate.
And it this went on so long enough for like an hour and a
half that all of us asked questions.
It became fun. The crew the P as were like,
Hey, what about this? And like, you know, you would
get answers that were, you know, you can validate.
So one of the tricks or you know, tools, I guess is you know
what's going to what's going to be visually a good signalling
that something's going on. Spirit boxes are great, but
they're really difficult for TV because it's just like John,
it's just constant noise, which is why the Estes method works so
well, which is where, you know, the person putting this
listening to spirit box has headphones on.
And so nobody else could hear what the spirit box is saying.
And then somebody else asks questions to the spirits, and
the person with the headphones on who can't hear the questions
repeats what the spirit box says.
Now, first of all, that's now that's the second best answer to
the to the OR equally as good of an answer to the essays method.
So John and I talk about the essays method a lot because I
think it's ridiculous. I've, I've always thought it
looks silly as hell, like I never understood.
It's it. There's a middle man.
So it's like from a, from a, as a, if you're a skeptic or
something and you have somebody in blindfolded headphones and
they're plugged into the spirit box and I asked them a, someone
else asked the question and then they just say words.
You know, it's like, how am I? Why don't I just hear the goat?
I get, hold on, let me finish. It's like, why, why am I
listening to the middleman? And we had another guest come on
who gave a great answer for, for why she does it a lot, another
ghost investigator. And it was like to avoid any
pareidolia or outside influence to, to what you're hearing,
which I thought was genius. And then what you're saying
makes total sense because from a visual television perspective,
it, it looks wild and you don't have the audio problems of, of
garbage when you're trying to edit and all this and everything
else. So they said OK, I'm starting to
slowly understand why people do this thing.
But there's, there's, there's, you know, you also, you have to
be true to the investigation. So you, you know, they're noise
cancelling headphones, right? So there's no way that the
person listening to the spirit box can hear the questions being
answered, but you also record the audio of the spirit box
independently. Yeah, you have that splitter on.
There so that in in the in the edit, you can show you can play
that, but you control the volume and the ducking so that you're
not it's not over everybody's audio.
You're controlling it so that you can still show that it
really was set on the box. Right, right, right.
Right. Well, but those are like, I like
I, you know, I love that kind of stuff, but I like visuals.
I love visuals. That's that's my jam, I mean.
It's a visual medium. Yeah, exactly.
And so I feel like, you know, EVP and audio is, is great and
it's valuable and it's more prevalent as far as the type of
evidence you get. So you, you have to incorporate
it, but there's always something that's available, you know,
that, that beeps or goes off or like, you know, when the, the
Xbox Kinect was being used all the time, that would, you're
looking at nothing, but it shows a skeleton figure, you know,
used in the right way and, and in certain environments, you
could be like, whoa, that's it's super creepy.
R.E.M. pods, directional sensors, something that I like
what people do is you put up, you know, almost like EMF trip
wires. So it's something crosses its
path, it goes off because also what you can do in the edit is
you can build a map from these things showing where they're
going off and what's what it's building, or you can, you know,
you can actually take some of the information and convert it
to be more easily seen and understood.
I like, I like those sorts of things.
I'd, you know, the, the night vision, thermal imaging, they're
always great. I'm not, you know, I, it's hard
for me to really dive in to thermal imaging and night vision
as being more valuable for the investigation than than other
things. Now, when you say, but is it
when you say valuable for the investigation or valuable for
the show? I think those are two separate
things. Investigation, OK, very valuable
for the show. Right.
It's creepy, it's creepy, it sets the mood and it's it's
important for the show because it's not.
Just try it. It is trying to present that
vibe of creepiness and fear. But because that's the most
accurate way to capture what the investigators are experiencing.
They are walking around in the pure dark in an environment
unknown. And you know, so the night
vision really does help bring as best of a first person
perspective that you can get. But I like photography.
I think that film photography, you know, is still incredibly
valuable. And you know, you can, you can
process the image, the negative in, in different ways and then
the print in different ways to eliminate, you know, certain
levels of light spectrum. You can use infrared
photography, you can use lighting, red lighting that
slows down the visual wavelength, you know, so that
you may capture something. But I also, I think some of the
best visual evidence I've ever seen has been captured on film.
And this is where the ghost and and alien realms sort of
coincide or or sort of connect, which gives me, leads me more to
my sort of belief of interdimensional or
transdimensional travel or entity versus, you know, dead
Uncle Joe. John just got a little excited
when you said that, but we'll get into, I want to get into
all. That just a.
Little bit he. Got a little excited of him.
I know him well enough that he was like he's, he just perked up
a little. He's got a little.
Well, I'll give you an example. We we, you know, went from 6 to
midnight. Well, in ghost hunting, you
know, you don't, you see or hear about shadow figures all the
time and it's a very unique phenomenon, ghost hunting
relative to, you know, full body apparitions, partial
apparitions, you know, something that has detail.
You know, we're talking pure black silhouette, but with
masks. I saw I have a picture from an
investigation done in the Hudson Valley which was a UFOs alien
invasion Hudson Valley. Were you going after?
Were you going after the Hudson Valley boomerang?
With everything, everything you can imagine in the Hudson
Valley, but but more so looking for, you know, the Y, the
connections, the spaces and found a place that had every
sort of paranormal experience you could imagine, all in one
old house and and multi generational.
And they had a picture of what they thought was, you know, I
don't know, a ghost or something, which looked like a
shadow figure sort of barely creeping out from behind a wall
into a doorway. Shit, you not.
This thing looked like a tall, grey alien more than any other
image I've ever seen of a ghost or an alien or whatever, and
gave me the creeps. And, you know, it was in line
with the experiences there, but it was captured on film.
The bookstore I mentioned down the street, they have a picture
up of that second floor haunted area that looks like a giant
plasma ball. And you know, it's a print out
right on on computer paper. And I'm like, I'd like to get an
idea of this, you know, I don't know.
And then I look above it and there's the original print from
a negative of it. And to, you know, and, and this
is something I'm like, who took this?
Like, well, we could, I mean, I got to find out like, we don't
really know. It's old.
I'm like, when was like, I don't know.
You got to find out. Because this orb, we'll call it
an orb, was large, first of all, but it had mass.
It had parts of it you could see through and parts of it you
could not see through. And it had what looked like
movement of energy, so different colorations.
It had, you know, a, a, a bit of a ring around it of light.
There was a light splash. It looked like it was actually
pushing a wave of light out, which like maybe it's a lens
flare, but you know, I know enough to tell them that's.
Did they have a? Did they have a nuclei by any
chance? Like a center.
It I'm not sure that I would say that I, I say that there could
be a more dense part of it that wasn't, but you know, not
positioned in the center from my pers, from our pers, the
camera's perspective, but it looked like it could, there
could be a convergence point. I think, you know, blowing it up
more, maybe look. But I said, like, look, if this
could be verified as not being faked, which isn't that
difficult, I've never seen anything like this in 25 years.
This could be the most astounding piece of evidence
sitting in a bookstore in a tiny island in Florida that anyone's
ever seen. That's wild.
That is wild. It's, it's, it's funny you bring
up Grey's, right? There was a time I'm on TikTok
mainly. There was a time when I was
constantly getting banned and I'd have to create up another
account to go live. And what I would do is I create
these videos. We're saying, hey, you know,
make sure you're following me over here.
My backup account, which I don't have any more, but hey, follow
me over here. So I'm doing a video and I have
a mirror in back of me from a Victorian house.
It's like a door mirror. And all the sudden now, not
trying to do anything paranormal, you know, nothing's
going. I don't have a spirit box going,
nothing. I'm just saying, hey, everybody,
please come over to here and watch me tonight.
So I'm not going to be on this account all the sudden.
You could. The audience can already see it.
It's almost like a selfie shot, right?
They can already see it in the mirror.
I don't notice it until it moves and it directly looks right at
me. I can only describe what I saw
in this video and in this mirror as a tall Gray.
That's the only way I can describe it.
If you saw it, you'd be like. I wanna see it first of all, I
definitely. Yeah, yeah, I'll find the video.
I think I still have it on my on my page, so I'll be able to pull
it up. But it is just, and you see it
like, and what's crazy too is I am moving back and forth.
OK, one can argue, oh, it's just a light reflecting in the
mirror. But when I'm standing still is
when you see it turn its head and look right at me.
Yeah, and it's, and by the way, that's an easy thing to
determine just based on, you know, having multiple sort of,
you know, images in a shot to see if it's one moving with the
other or not. One moving Yep, Yep.
So it was pretty it was pretty wild.
So the whole alien spirit phenomenon is like a lot of
people, you know, it's some people get religious with it,
like all the aliens are demons. You know, I'm sure you've heard
that before. You know which is which.
Is like their demons. Yeah, a lot.
Of people like their demons with my documentation I'm coming
across. Belief, though, there's a really
good reason for that Belief. That's a longer conversation,
but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
Well, I know there is. And it's wild.
It is a wild conversation, but it's funny how it does intermix.
It really does, you know. Whoever you when you caught
that, where was this? What was the location?
So the location where I caught that is called Wesley Manor, and
it has it has a huge history. It was an outpost in the 1700s
that got destroyed by the British during the Revolutionary
War. The Battle of White Plains took
out the whole area. Then it got turned into a
Victorian mansion. And then after that, it was a
temporary hospital for the Spanish flu and then an
experimental hospital that they ran experiments on, like, you
know, in the 30s and then that, and then it turned into an
apartment building. And it's been an apartment
building ever since. Do you know what the very first
either structure or use or gathering or settlement was for
that location? Yes, yeah.
And, and the walls are still there.
They they built it upon, they bought, they built the Victorian
mansion on the outpost. So there's still the old
fieldstone walls in the basement next to.
The Outpost. It was native land.
OK, Was it was the location where the outpost used by, you
know, the indigenous people for any specific purpose?
Yes. What?
What did they use it? For yes, so because of its
height advantage, it was almost used as a not like an outpost
for them, but the what they used to do is make these roads that
would interconnect and that was a spot where they would all a
lot of the roads would connect almost like a meeting ground, if
you will. So, and I, and I'm going to, I
would suggest that whoever the indigenous people were, if they
were not the original inhabitors of that land, there were people
before them that focused on that spot as well.
And this is the reason I ask is there's the theory of power
centers. There's Patrick Jackson who
talked about it, a British guy, but.
He. You know, when I was even in, in
Hudson Valley, we found places that were important to like,
let's say, again, I think the druids or somebody, which is
like, how'd they get over there? You know, whatever.
But areas, let's say where crops grow twice as tall as any other
spot where, you know, they, they, there's a practical value
to early people, to that specific location.
Then as you know, sort of humans progress, other people find
other value in that area, wind up taking it over.
These become ritualistic sites, prayer sites, temples, churches
and others continue to come see value in it, take it, build on
top of it, etcetera, etcetera, until wherever you're at now was
not at all what was there before.
But the reasoning why everyone focused on that is the same.
It had a certain level of let's say power or energy, perhaps
unseen, definitely not understood, but depending on how
far back you go, had practical value until portal.
Nexus. Nexus, yes, and that's another
thing the spirits talk about something called the Nexus
Portal. Yeah, that's, that's there
because why then churches and temples and prayer sites,
because then it becomes, you know, the more esoteric or, or
metaphysical, you know, value. Mark, when you say when you say
Hudson Valley, you mean Hudson Valley, Westchester.
New York. Hudson, NY OK, yeah, yeah,
that's where I'm at right now. Yeah.
So, you know, yeah. I'm in the lower Hudson Valley.
Is it Pine Crest, the UFO capital of the world?
I think it's Pine Crest or yeah, yeah, we, we were, we were all
over that area and it just creepy.
Hollow buck out. You know all the the Hudson
Valley has it all, you know. Poughkeepsie's got its own.
You know its own thing when you go up now, up farther that way.
Yeah, it's crazy. You know the the whole mystery
of Tuxedo Park. Love Tuxedo Park?
That really plays into the that really plays into the the UFO
phenomenon. And I guess it was early, late
80s and early 90s, I think, right, the boomerang and all
that. But.
That's why if you go to the if you go to Tuxedo Park and you go
say the Renaissance Fair, that's where the Renaissance Fair is
located for New York. Dude.
You have the like postman walking around with shotguns,
you know, blasting, you know, fake shots saying that they're
hunting aliens, that United States Postal Service.
The other thing and it's, they play into the whole, it's funny,
you know? They did a lot there, you know,
brought over scientists during the war and whatnot.
But that's, you know, if you follow the Hudson Valley, the
the Barney and Betty Hill story in New Hampshire really is it's
a it's a Hudson Valley story. It's, you know, way N New
Hampshire, but it's part of that entire connected stretch And
that, you know, obviously that's the the most one of the most
incredible or first, you know, incredible UFO abduction
stories. But the people we talked to, I
mean, people who have never we went and took over the town and
they give us full access to, you know, commissioners, mayor and
police chiefs who had stories that were like they never told
anybody before. And they broke down while
telling these stories because it was just so, so jarring to
everything they knew and understood practically and
logically. And no matter how many decades
past, it's as if it was yesterday for them emotionally.
We didn't experience with experiment with a guy on his
farm that we got to sort of serendipitously, he was not
interested. We ran to his son on the streets
who his buddy told us about what his son what his friend's dad's
farm had experienced. And we went out there and he let
us, you know, he missing time and a weird sound and we were
able to recreate the sound and try to blast it in the sky.
And he went up walking out of the woods like a zombie when he
heard the sound and didn't know why.
It just really strange things. And then, you know, he's really
private guy, but winds up telling us how he used to have
tenants on the other side of the of the the farm.
And one night, you know, they just packed up and left.
You never knew why. And then he was also, you know,
the farm owner was also a long haul trucker.
And he ran into the father of the family on a route once in
another state and said, what? What?
You know, why'd you guys leave? What happened?
And the father told him that they constantly would wake up to
Gray aliens in their bedroom. And one night he got so freaked
out by he was like, that's it, everyone, let's go, let's go get
out, everyone. Toronto, I believe in just we're
we're moving. Grab what you can.
We're out of here. And they took off.
And it wasn't until a few days into their to their trip to
where they were moving that he had two young daughters who
said, you know, daddy, we're really glad we moved from there.
We just didn't like the little Gray men in our room all the
time. You know, that kind of shit.
That's that's. Wild man, that's so let me ask
you so so you know going going into what you were saying about
these like I don't want to say power centers, but I'm going to
use that word just so you know these these.
Power places it's not understood.
Science. There's no term for it, no.
Yeah, these power centers, you know, especially like, you know,
talk about like the Hudson Valley.
Do you think the Appalachian Mountains have anything to do
with that? Because they run right through
here, you know, like they, it's like that whole area, especially
the farther up in the Hudson Valley you go, you know, the
higher up in the Appalachians you're going, if you're going
towards the left, you know. Do you think that might have
anything to do with it? I don't know if it's if it's
called, you know if it's causality, right?
I don't. I don't know if they are just
involved in the same circumstance or phenomena or
there's something more present or triggering there.
It's really hard to say. I haven't studied Appalachian
enough, you know, Appalachian Mountains enough to say that is
a cause of anything necessarily. OK.
Hey, Mark, I, I want to ask you a couple more questions on just
capturing this stuff. And then I want to get into your
sort of this interdimensional theories you have.
But you know, as a storyteller and I think a lot of our
audience, look, there's a lot of there are a lot of as like to
say ghost hunter babies out there on the Internet.
You know, I mean, there, there's a lot of people who are out
there, you know, investigating, you know, John will tell you
he's not an investigator. He just documents.
He really just goes out and just experiments and documents stuff.
But he's not a full, a full forced investigator like someone
who's out there really using different techniques and
different things. That's not his bag, but there
are some who do, and they're getting it from the shows that
arguably you helped make. What are they getting wrong?
What are they getting right? I think that I wouldn't ever say
wrong. I think that what I learned
first and foremost on Ghost Hunters, which was the most
important part of all of this, is to absolutely seriously look
for a rational and logical explanation for whatever occurs
before jumping to any conclusions.
That's really, really important. But that only comes with a
certain type of knowledge. For those guys, for instance,
they were plumbers. It was easy for them to figure
out like if it was something like, you know, air in a, in a,
you know, a pipe. So people, sometimes, some
people, if they came into learning from TV shows later,
there was not that level of debunking, let's say, or, or,
you know, looking for a logical answer.
And so people will tend to take anything that happens and then
try to ascribe a paranormal definition to it.
That's the problem is any kind of bias, you know, any kind of
intent. You cannot.
You know, of course, when something happens, you want it
to be paranormal. Everybody does, everybody does.
But if you don't first try to understand, you know, is it
potentially paranormal or not? First, that's an issue.
I think it gets sort of wrong. I think the other thing is, you
know, and I don't look, I don't know if you know if this is how
true this is of people, but I would say always staying current
with the field, You know what, what are people trying?
What are they using? What is working?
What kind of theories attached to actual science and
explanations. Understanding the environment
you're going into in a way that you would normally not have
before will help you to cap trigger or even capture
activity. And so sometimes people will go
places and make nothing happened, nothing happened,
nothing happened. Well, you know, it's good that
you're not saying everything that you experienced was a ghost
or paranormal, but Are you sure nothing happened?
Did you have the right tools? Did you look at the information
or you know the activity in the right way?
So I think that there's a tendency to be a little black
and white about it being something or not being something
too early in the process. It should.
There should be no positive negative.
Is there a standardized, is there like a standardized data
format that you would do like across every unexplained
situation that, you know, if you could standardize something,
what would it be like? What would you tell these guys?
Like, listen, you're going to go out and you're going to be
you're going to be a TikTok star and you're going to be a ghost
hunter. This is this is what how you're
going to this is what you should be doing.
This is the standardized thing. Someone who's gone out and
captured this shit. Here's what you should do for
this format to make it feel. Let the that we know that it'll.
It could be legitimate. First of all, I think the most
important thing is multiple days and nights on location.
That's really important. I think the first thing you
should do no matter what, especially you start out in the
daytime, is you spend time in the environment looking for
stones and movement that occur because of age, you know, and
location and weather. And so you clock that right.
Like, OK, whenever they turn on the hot water over there, these
pipes always bang. You know, there's always a
garbage truck that goes down at at 3:00 AM.
You know, there's always a, you know, bar letting out that's far
away. Or when the clouds are there,
sound travels from here or there.
There's always a blinking light. Like look for all of these
things that you can categorize early on before you're like
doing a quote, UN quote, ghost hunt part of it so that you
know, while you're in the investigation aspect that you
know that you know that is something that is natural or, or
part of the the regular and the norm.
So you can quickly dismiss it because again, you have even if
you could spend days, you have limited time.
So if you go and chase down the sound and spend 6 hours with the
sound only to them find out it was a banging pipe, you lost out
on hours of investigation that would have potentially led to
some actual evidence and documentation of legitimate.
You know. Phenomena.
Is there any is there anything that is that you ever found was
a total waste? Like this is just horseshit
Devices, tech or any any piece. None.
I, I don't think any of it is a waste.
I think it's about the right equipment for the environment
and the encounters, you know the the encounters that have been
have happened there or have believed to have happened there.
I think that's that's what's important.
Going into every location with the exact same tools I don't
think makes sense. All right, Mark, let's get into
let's get into some real deep shit.
What do you think spirits are? Again, like I always have to
preface this, I get obviously when people find out what I do
with their first question is you.
You believe in ghosts. Of course.
We probably have very different definitions of the term, right?
Tell me I I don't. You don't have to qualify.
Don't give me the caveats. I want to know what Marc
Maronaccio thinks. What is?
What are spirits? Well, it's important because
it's important because even the word spirit has a lot attached
to it. Now I will say this, my career
and my personal interest has always been bringing the
unexplained and the science together to create an
explanation that this is, you know, science and religion,
let's say, or spirituality were once converged and they broke
apart. And I think that they're need to
come back. And I spent something, I'm very
proud of it. I spent a year in development on
a project about near death experiences and their survivors
and what I learned from those first hand accounts from those
near death experience survivors and what I learned about quantum
mechanics, specifically quantum entanglement, and then what I
learned about consciousness. It's it's ridiculously obvious
that there's a connection. And so spirit could be a lot of
things. I don't think there's one
answer. It could be many different, you
know, paranormal or phenomena, right?
But what I think happens is in almost every case of an
experience is there is a connection between the observer
and the action, right? Let's call the action just
stimuli, right? Whatever the the encounters,
it's just stimuli. How is how are we interpreting
that stimuli? How's the brain processing it?
What do you see? How come one person could see a
ghost and the other person can't and they're in the same space?
There's time manipulation. So what I believe is that, and
if you don't know anything about quantum entanglement, which
everyone does, but the interesting to me about quantum
entanglement is that it proves that there is an unobservable
universe on top of our observable universe.
Because our physics defines as meant to understand our
observable universe. We can only measure, study and
and and theorize what we can see or experience or read and
measure. But quantum entanglement, you
know, give us this idea that well, we can't see the
connection between the two things that affect each other,
so it must exist outside of our observable universe.
It is very very basic and not really super accurate way to
describe it. Let's just say a connection
exists from near death experience, survivors and their
experiences. It mirrors this connection that
then their their consciousness called soul, whatever has to
call it source, right? This is in, in strict, you know,
use using basic sort of scientific terms or computer
terms when they're in the process of dying and this tether
connects. It's as though not only is
consciousness sort of going, but information, the information of
their life and their experiences and everything is being fed
back. So.
When? I I, I got to dumb this down for
me, for this guy. So are you are are go?
You're saying ghosts are a four spirits are a form of
consciousness. I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that what we are experiencing when you have, when
you see that is a connection to something somewhere or somewhere
else that's created through physics that we don't understand
or not even physics, science we don't understand.
And I think that what we're experiencing and what we're
seeing could be anyone of the following dead Uncle Joe, who,
you know, never moved on and has been hanging around to try to
give a message or needs help to move on.
Sure, possible. The impression that dead Uncle
Joe left on the physical environment where he died every
night, 11:00 I see a figure walked down the hallway
disappearing on the wall. Well, for, you know, 70 years
Uncle Joe lived there. That's like a classic.
That's what, an imprint. An imprint.
An imprint right just. An imprint OK intelligent would
be interactive like it's something trying to communicate
with you. I've seen poltergeist activity,
which is seemed most likely to actually be young girls entering
puberty massive hormonal chemical changes in their in
their body, but also their brains and it actually manifests
as things happening around them. I I've seen and I've heard very
detailed stories that suggest time, some sort of time slip,
time dilation, where what you're seeing is what hasn't happened
yet, what happens like the next night, but you're seeing it the
night before, which is humans doing something next night.
And what you're seeing the night before is that action, but not
fully, you know, engage or develop, right?
So you're seeing it's shadowy, it's distorted, it's, you know,
just movement of energy. But it's exactly what someone
did who didn't know about that story the next night.
I think that if you're interacting in a space that's
connected, you know, you could be interacting with scientists
on the other side of the space trying to also understand it and
experience and explain it. And they don't know what you
are. I have a story I tell which is
imagine this old lady who lives in a house by herself and every
day at 12 O clock, she hears what sounds like children
running up the stairs in in her attic and laughing and giggling
and thumping around and playing. And it just freaks her out
because she opens the door and nobody's there.
She asked some paranormal investigators to come over and
look around and they do an investigation.
They say, yes, your house is absolutely haunted.
There are spirits there. And she's like, they're freaking
me out, what can I do? And they say, well you have to
let them know this is your house.
And so next time you hear it, you stomp on those stairs, you
walk up there, you bang on the wall and you say this is my
house. You say get out, get out.
And you bang on the door while you're yelling get out.
Next time she hears it, gets up the courage, walks stairs,
stomps couple times, bangs in the wall and says get out.
The sound stop. They never come back right Now
imagine in another space, place or time, there are children that
every day at noon after their mother fed them lunch, they went
up to the attic to play. They go up there every day.
That's their thing. That's their routine.
That's what they do. And then one day while they're
playing, they hear banging and a voice say get out, and they
never go back up there again. So my point to this is it's
really important. What I believe is that time is
is the virus in the equation that needs to be removed to
understand phenomena, because it's not necessarily that.
I believe a long time ago these kids were playing and now this
woman's here. Yes, in our linear understanding
of our existence, maybe, but those events are happening
simultaneously. OK, I understand.
I understand. I want to talk about one of
those scenarios that you talked about though a little bit more
specifically, and that's Uncle. John.
Oh, go. Ahead real quick, Gary.
So, Mark, would you say that in everything that you just said
that there is a transfer of data happening on a quantum level?
I think, yes. What I think is that what when
you're in a space that has activity, what you're actually
experiencing is you're experiencing, let's say, the
other side, the other element, whatever, whatever you're
seeing, experiencing that is also experiencing you in real
time in its space place or time. Which when you think, when you
look at sort of quantum, you know, quantum physics, you know,
and, and understand time being an issue.
Let's say, you know, you're really, we do this in skid walk
ranch all the time, space-time. It's just space-time.
The one thing, it's not simple things.
It's a thing, not a not a period of duration.
So what I think? To say, Mark, I'm sorry to cut
you off. In the same way of trying to
explain to somebody that if I'm sitting in this spot and you're
running by and we look up at the sky and we see something in
outer space, say, you know, billions and billions and
trillions of miles away, we're seeing that object at two
different times, even though we're running in the same spot,
You know, you're in the same spot, but I'm sitting and you're
running. You always say yeah, yeah, it's
a. Businessman talk about that
phenomenon all the time. You're looking exactly at the
same pace, exactly at the same position.
But movement, the speed and movement of the one person,
actually means that they're looking at it at a different
time. At a different time, yeah.
Yeah, so, but look, look, honestly, look, I want to go
back for a second to about to Uncle Joe 'cause you sort of
took him and threw him to the side.
Like there's Uncle Joe who's, you know, could be here waiting
to send a message. And then he went on to these in
depth things. What's Uncle Joe?
Uncle Joe, What is he? So.
Is he part of this time transgression or is there
something else? Is that a?
You know I do. A lot of work with mediums and
and there's what they say and my issue with not even issue, but
I'm not sure yet that what a person is experiencing with dead
Uncle Joe communicating is actually dead Uncle Joe
communicating because I just don't believe we exist fully in
that form once we pass. Or is it what Uncle Joe
impressed upon us and the environment?
So Uncle Joe is always here. He's always here and he may be
in ways that we don't even understand.
We're connected to him because of of DNA, of consciousness, of
whatever. And so Uncle Dead Uncle Joe
could be a projection from us of our communication or connection
to what's left of dead Uncle Joe in the environment or in US,
once his body and the rest of his consciousness has moved on.
It's almost like our. Memories.
It's almost like our memories are what you're describing is
like our memories of Uncle Joe are basically helping recreate
the man. Well, yeah, so.
In in a way, not to just kind of way that there's importance and
value and there's something that exists, but in a way that
connection between dead Uncle Joe's, you know, memory and the
energy he left, the impression, his genetics, all of those
things I think come together to create that that sighting in
that encounter. So the theory we play off of on
this on splintered spirits is really, you know, and based on
John's theory is you know, that spirits 1 theory is that spirits
are the fractured memories of the living.
Basically, we all have electricity in us.
We all have energy in us. We certainly don't know how
consciousness works will be know that that energy in the synapses
are flying around in our brain and when these meat sacks go,
that energy has to go somewhere, can't be created or destroyed.
Is it our memories and consciousness possibly attached
to that energy? That is something that we talk
about a lot and as possibly as what our spirits, right, It's
the memories that we're interacting with of the past.
Partially I'll say yes, I did. I think that I absolutely a
reasonable, you know, definition as much as many others are, but
if not more, two things I'll say.
Philip Dick used to talk about this, a science fiction author
where he, you know, realized one day that his dreams weren't
dreams, but they were him watching the other versions of
him in parallel universes and worlds and dimensions.
And he was, you know, bringing back the memory of of that and
creating stories out of it. And I say that because, you
know, in studying death, near death, scientists looked and,
and there's a lot of new, let's say, I don't know, evidence or
theory about where consciousness lives in the brain and just nano
micro, nano microtubulars tubules and have maybe qubits in
them, right? These qubits, which is what we
used or what Google used to make Willow, the quantum computer
that solved an equation by potentially accessing other
versions of itself and other universes.
So, right, So you know, this is where we get to again to
consciousness, quantum entanglement, quantum place.
I think that a big part of consciousness is this connection
that we're making to all versions of us.
Well, it's fascinating. I just.
I agree with you on that, Mark. That is like it's huge.
It's when when you really think about it, I like what you said
before about now. Hold on, I need to illiterate
this very it's very important. When I document, I take
spiritualism and religion out right and I look at just from a
logical perspective. I do that for a a couple of
reasons, but mainly just for a different perspective.
We already have the religious, we already have the
spiritualism, you know, hey, what happens when an atheist
comes out here and do this? Let's see what happens, right?
That's the that's the the whole gist.
However, however, there's a point where religion,
spiritualism and science, you know, comes together and and you
know, you were speaking about that and then something else you
were talking about with the sci-fi aspect of it.
I mean, let's be real, the only, the only real, you know, fiction
that becomes non fiction is science fiction at the end of
the day, you know, that's what we have fridge, That's we have
fridge. That's that they talk to us.
Hey, your milk's going to go bad.
You know, like soon we're going to have replicators and people
are going to argue what's better, the process replication
or the actual processed food, you know?
And I think you, I don't think this is what you're saying that
you're not doing, but I think that, you know, spirituality and
religion are an important part of the of this, of
investigating, understanding and processing, but not perhaps not
in the way that we've been taught or meant to believe.
Look at it more like what can be extracted and rewritten in terms
that are more advanced than at the time, let's say the Bible
was written. If you believe it, if you wanted
to say, I believe everything that's in the Bible, that seems
like a miracle and mystical and crazy and, and all that were
true. But take it out of the time
period. Take the people out of it.
Take out the, you know, the, the, the lesson that is imparted
on you because of it. Then you'd start drawing
parallels to other phenomena that you know, and then the
science of those phenomena that you'd say, OK, wait a minute.
Maybe it's just, you know, man has written it in a way that
detaches it from where we are right now and far.
Well, what you're talking about also, by the way, guys, is what
past life aggressionists believe absolutely 100%.
And past life is a, is a misnomer actually, as as I've
come to learn, they, they are of the mindset of everything,
everywhere all at once. We are all on different
timelines traveling at the same time.
You're not looking at yourself in the past.
You're looking at yourself on another timeline that is
happening right now at the same or you know it it it's a very
different thing leading to there is a higher self that controls
all of this, that that and that leads to spirit.
What spirit guides people that are trying, you know, these
other entities of some kind in this other space that could
potentially be helping you make decisions, whether you know it
or not. But it's this idea of we are not
in a in a time in any given time.
At any given time, I think the best, one of the best practical
understandings of that is you look at emotional issues, PTSD
for instance, you know, flashbacks where or any other
emotional issues where you are experiencing the pain of
something as though it's happening to you right now, even
though it happened in the past. You know what in our chemistry
and our makeup and our brain allows us to feel as though it's
happening right now, even though we see it as having happened in
the past. And science fiction would always
say, well, you still exist there.
You're still experiencing it, right?
And that's to the same point. You know what?
And we, but we know on an absolute scientific level that
we experience things that our brain cannot determine, you
know, separate from right now or having happened in the past.
It's like deja vu, you know, it's like deja vu.
I try to explain to people that the best evidence for our
multiversal selves is Deja vu. At that moment in time, we are
all, a lot of us are all resonating with ourselves in the
multiverse. And it's like, wait a minute,
you know, I've done I've done this before.
I said this before, but I didn't.
Well, time might be a little different where the other you is
you, you know what I mean? So and that gets into the past
life aggression and you know, you know all that.
Maybe Deja Vu is when multiple, you know, universes, timelines
mentioned, we're going to call them, are intersecting 2 of the
same point. So you know, you're both about
to or experiencing the same thing.
But because it's happening, sort of it's like the idea of like
you can never, if you go back in the future, you can never let
your old self see your new self or your explosive.
Maybe maybe Deja Vu is a simplified, less dangerous
version of that. You're experiencing same thing
as the other you at the same time.
So you're just super interconnected for a moment.
There's an emerging theory which is incredible that you know,
there was this period where the human head grew to twice its
size in like 100,000 year period, which is unheard of.
It takes much longer that, but they see that in just this one
100,000 year period, the size of the human head, the size of the
brain doubled. Oh, the magic ape theory, Right,
You're talking about the Magic Ape theory.
Well, this is when, you know, I think it was apes.
This was this was a form of human, right.
Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But wonderful all or they found it was well, you know, it's it's
man when they found mushrooms and began to ingest them and
small amounts heightened their ability to hunt.
So right away they're hunting better and they're providing
more protein, which is feeding the brain.
And then a little bit larger amounts created stronger bonds
between man and woman for procreation and progression.
Larger amounts created a more of a cohesion of community.
So they started forming groups that stuck together, right,
Which then increased the amount of hunting and food and protein.
And then very large amounts is what introduced abstract thought
in a way, right? And all of those things combined
with the protein, the fuel, so the brain firing neurons and
synapses in ways it never did before.
Plus it's getting fuel to build it like a muscle.
Boom, the brain just exploded. So I've had many experiences
when I was younger where I really felt, and this is what's
different from most people, not that I was somewhere or someone
else or experiencing the multiverse where I felt I was
actually in my own skin versus the rest of my life feeling like
I'm not really here fully. That's wild, right?
I'm a big believer in microdosan.
Weird death, experienced survivors.
Weird death experienced survivors hate Earth.
When they come back, they're like, this is the fucking
fantasy. This is the this is not reality.
Where I went, that was reality. This is all just bullshit, you
know, story land. This is not real, which is why
they suffer these effects trying to get back to the feeling and
being back what they were before and different issues because you
know, they're very detached from the here and now because they've
sort of experienced it. And I every medium I've ever met
and psychic ever met look like a lot of them have had near death
experiences before they got their abilities.
The ones that say no, like really ask your parents.
They're like, oh, my God, I was dead for two minutes when I came
out when I was born. I had to be revolved or, Oh my
God, I choked on something when I was a baby.
And then my dad had to like, you know, slap my back, bring me
back, bring me to life. So there is a connection, I
think, with Ohio somehow, you know, and this could be trauma.
This could be, you know, death. This could be, I think, you
know, psychedelics. There is a way to get those, you
know, consciousness fucking, you know, I think, I think the.
Term, the term is called neutral energy when I think I could be
wrong on this, but I think it's neutral energy when it talks
about the just the various brain firing synapses, neurons doing
their thing and you know, fungus, fungi essentially
increasing that that neutral energy in the brain.
It's actually, it's actually pretty wild.
So listen, Mark, first of all, thank you.
You know, we've been here for over an hour and I really
appreciate your time. I got one more question for you
that I'd love to know. You know, as a, as a story, as a
someone who did on skin worker, so many experiments, you know,
and someone who really obviously has a passion.
What, what do you want to what was, what's something you'd want
to do next? Like what is the thing you'd
want to test or try? Or what is that one thing?
How do you how do you keep the love of this passion you're in
and progress it? I honestly the next thing that I
would really like to see try to do is some form of verifiable
interaction with the UAP. You know you mean.
One that, one that we're not firing rockets at.
Right, maybe not that. I mean, I we saw these at
Skinwalker Ranch all the time, the spherical UAP that seemed to
appear and disappear whenever something was going on as if to
check on is this an issue or not?
I think that those are, you know, whatever's not us,
whatever's not man made. What's UAP?
Is this the new way to say UFO? Yeah, the new way to say.
Dude, they just released a video.
Of course it was overshadowed by everything going on, you know?
But on the, I think it was the 9th of September, they released
literally one of the greatest videos of Uaps we could see.
And what are they doing? They're shooting fucking
missiles at it and it's insane. What would it what?
What does UAP stand for? Identified aerial phenomena.
There's actually a new term
actually. It's yeah, it's new.
But there's another new one. Yeah.
So that like, but, but how do we know what we're looking at as a
UAP? Or how do we know we're not just
looking at a test of the Hellfire missile trying to
connect with a different kind of target, you know, and it's being
fed to somebody to make everybody think it's UFOs.
I mean, this is what like Richard Doty and these guys did
back and, you know, the post Cold War and it's part of Mirage
men like just feeding people UFO stuff to try to, you know, use
it to bring bring out spies. And so we can, we can find out
who the spies are or to throw, you know, China, Russia off the
track of development. There's a, The thing is,
whenever, whenever the government releases something, I
never take it at face value. I mean, for something to be
released, you know, it's usually that's a multi year process with
a lot of bureaucracy red tape. There's an, there's a proposal
for a, for an action, There's approvals.
There's, you know, everything from, you know, the forum into
the, whatever the theater is and the, the casting and you know,
whatever it is. Things don't just go out like
that fast. It's a long process, which means
many people are involved. And we know that the way that,
you know, the, the the government is compartmentalized
for for strategic purposes is this guy may have no idea why
this guy is giving it to him and he's got to give it to that guy
or to say it's going out. So without knowing true
motivations, you know, even whistleblowers, and I'm not, I'm
never going to come down and say these guys aren't aren't legit.
IA 100% believe the whistleblowers.
But, you know, I do know that I've been told that sometimes
whistleblower testimony is a way in which people in government
politics of the military can legally and safely open the
books for organizations that they can't get access to
otherwise. Whistleblower comes out and says
Lockheed Martin has UFOs. Suddenly Congress says, well, we
demand an investigation. And now the government thought
Lockheed Martin was wasting a ton of money and stealing
taxpayer money, can actually go and look and see what their
budget is and what they're spending the money on, but they
have no access to it otherwise. They're not allowed to.
So sometimes these are not even individuals as much as groups.
This is the plan, you know that This is why this person comes
forward. That's their duty, their job.
Sometimes they're pushed towards that, maybe without even knowing
that it's under someone else's, you know, someone else's need.
Sometimes it's all completely random and nobody's got any
control over whatsoever. But, you know, I just don't
think as a as a country, we're, you know, we've been able to
stay so safe, well guarded, have the freedoms and liberties that
we've had without there being a lot of work going on that we'll
never know about from people, you know, who are who are
running the country that maybe sometimes bleeds into this stuff
and or doesn't. I like how we're ended on a
America. Yeah.
America. You know, you know $10,000 on
the Toilet Seat 5000. Dollars.
Paper cups, you know. But one thing that happened at
Skinwalker Ranch and we were always, I was always very
cognizant of this. I'd never want to be the person
responsible for capturing footage of something that is,
you know, a a important piece of military technology development.
And I become the reason why, you know, the rest of the world gets
it. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's in
a very same way. It would be like the videos of
the those adults who capture the foul balls and steal it out of
the hands of the child, right, Right.
It's like that's that's Mark Marinach, Mark Marinachi
actually capturing UAP that turns out to be some high level
national, you know, defense secret.
It's the same as stealing the ball out of a child's hands.
And now? We're all doomed.
That's the issue. That's the issue with the field
is that the enthusiasm, the childlike giddiness, the just
the pure, you know, joy and fun and mind bending ideas that come
from exploring this, you know, you have to keep in mind
they're, you know, not everybody's out to get you
because they're keeping something private or secret.
You know, anything that I get, everybody in the world's going
to get, including North Korea, Russia, China, right?
I mean, you know, I may not personally agree with tactics
and operations, but it's also not for me to say, you know, I
sleep under the blanket of freedom they provide and not
necessarily the question the manner in which they provide.
Shield of America going on. Do you guys feel that?
Yeah, it's a few good. No, it's a few good.
American. Shield.
But it is, it is tough like, I mean, because you see people who
are like we, you know, the public has a right to know.
I'm like, says who? You know that?
That's you deciding what information should come out.
No, no, people can't handle dude.
Listen, one thing I've learned being in this world too, and
watching like just hearing the questions and seeing the fans is
that America's pretty dumb. Like we're dumb and and
intelligence is a bell curve and it that that peak is narrowing
and there's a lot of dumb on the side and it's and it's they
don't need to know. They shouldn't they they, they
can't know. And I learned this from guys
that we had on the ranch, military guys and and other
people I've talked to before and after that.
A lot of the issue with government disclosure of video
and images has nothing to do with what they captured, but
it's the technology we used to capture it just by showing video
of a UAP. China, Russia, whoever, they can
figure a lot out that, you know, not only puts us at risk
technologically, but it could put servicemen, it could put,
you know, operators, it could put people at risk because maybe
now they can figure out how much we can see into their, you know,
into their country or other places where we're in conflict.
You know, that the, the Tic Tac was shot in what, 2002?
And we got it in 2017. And, and when when those guys
came to Skimwalker Ranch, they said the UAPX guys who saw the
Tic Tac retract it and clocked it.
They said, look, we can talk about anything from that day
except the technology used to capture TikTok, TikTok.
And I think that's important for people to know it's yeah.
That's a that's a really interesting.
That's a really interesting point, right?
It's not about. It's just about the thing.
It's the thing that caught the thing.
It's the. Thing that caught the thing
yeah, that's why, you know, we see this we see this with our
with our day-to-day and like, for example, we all have
microwaves in our house, correct.
You know, microwaves that that came from NASA that was a NASA
invention that we didn't get in the general public until way,
way later. Same thing.
This tons of bitches. We're making this take an hour
to make a baked potato, man. You're gonna be doing it with
two minutes. Have you guys ever heard of
shark? Years.
Shark fittings? You guys ever ever hear of
these? If you're a plumber, basically
what a shark fitting is. It's a quick connect to copper
pipe or Plex pipe or some sort of PVC.
It's a quick connect. It literally takes you cut, you
clean, you push in. It takes no brains and knocks
the time of fixing a leak down from 20 minutes to to under 3
minutes. It is quick.
I think this came that technology came about back in
2015, 2014 available to the public.
But NASA has had it since the 60s, you know, and those are
just two small. Examples.
That's that's crazy. But you think about microwaves.
If microwaves came out too early, everyone would be cooking
themselves. Everyone be cooking themselves
but you. Got all without all the, you
know, without all the safety safeguard.
But how long did it right for public use to know that it
wasn't dangerous? Yeah, and those are just simple
things. Imagine the.
Basic technology that becomes military.
You have X amount of time for military use before you get you
know are able to take it to the public for consumer commercial
use. It's very wild to think of.
That's a great point, Mark, about the whole technology, man,
That's, that's a a wild point. Yeah, and it'll be interesting
to see that if one day the tech actually catches up to what
we're all trying to do here when we're exploring for the
consumer, I guess calling us the consumers, you know, to 'cause I
always say, look, guys, you know, man, if we had tech that
could talk to ghosts, the world as we know it would change.
So don't sit there and think that we're actually talking to
ghosts from an app on our phone. It's a tool like any other tool,
that's a piece of a puzzle that we can see in a picture that we
have to put together and think about until we really have, you
know, all the all of the pieces put together maybe can give us
some idea of what might be. I actually don't think the apps
on the phone are that bad because it's not like it's it's
still it's technology that has transmitters and receivers,
capacitors. No, no, I think they're great.
I think they're great. They're like John.
When I use them, I get nothing. When John uses them, he gets a
really dude, It's crazy specific.
This all leads to his magnetic things that I don't understand.
I think he's a witch, but that's just me.
But it's sort of this vibe of I think it's a piece of a puzzle,
like it's giving you a a painting you a picture that we
need other things to fill out. Mark, thank you so much.
I mean. It's really great we can sit
here. All day we'll have to have you
back on as we learn more and keep going on this and any other
things you work on or books or things like that, man, that's
like we want to read them, we want to talk about them.
It's it's really fascinating. You have a deep love for this
stuff and it was really great to have you on.
I really appreciate appreciate your.
Time. Thank you.
It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me on, guys.
It was a lot of fun for me. Yeah, man, definitely.
It's been fun. Well, that's it for another
episode of Splintered Spirits. Be sure to like, share, and
subscribe to our YouTube channel, Spotify, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Until next time, stay curious.