1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,440
Guys, I had to go to the I had 
to run my dog to the vet this 

2
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,320
morning and he my dog has 
Addison's, which like JFK has 

3
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,640
it, you know what I mean? 
And it has to get a shot once a 

4
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:11,560
month. 
But I so I grab, I grab a giant 

5
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,000
coffee, right? 
That's the kind of what I do. 

6
00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:16,840
But then my wife comes home and 
she brought me another coffee. 

7
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,040
So it's like now guys, I'm on, 
I'm on turbo. 

8
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,640
Are you ready? 
Let's go, let's go. 

9
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,520
Welcome to Splintered Spirits 
Podcast hosted by me, Gary and 

10
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,240
my nephew John Santa from Santa 
Paranormal, where I follow 

11
00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,640
Johnny as he tries to prove his 
theory that ghosts are the 

12
00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,000
fractured memories of the 
living. 

13
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,880
Today we're talking about a 
different kind of haunting, the 

14
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,720
way a recipe can keep somebody 
alive long after they're gone. 

15
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,760
Our guest is food folklorist and
archivist Rosie Grant, the 

16
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,640
creator behind the viral project
Ghostly Archive on TikTok and 

17
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,200
Instagram. 
While she was getting her degree

18
00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,960
in library science and interning
at Congressional Cemetery, Rosie

19
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,879
discovered something unusual. 
Gravestones engraved with full 

20
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,400
recipes. 
Instead of Bible verses or 

21
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,040
solemn epitaphs, these 
headstones were carved with 

22
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,400
instructions for spritz cookies,
tea, biscuits and casseroles. 

23
00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:16,960
She started tracking them down, 
baking each dish and then 

24
00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:19,760
bringing the finished food back 
to the graves to share a bite 

25
00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,360
with the person who inspired it.
That journey became her first 

26
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,920
book to die for, A Cookbook of 
Gravestone Recipes, a collection

27
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,440
of recipes and family stories 
from cemeteries across the US 

28
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,360
and beyond that explores how 
food, memory, and mourning all 

29
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,920
collide. 
We're going to talk about why 

30
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,440
families choose to etch recipes 
into stone, that connection 

31
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,600
between the living and the dead 
through food, and how cooking 

32
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,720
can be its own kind of spirit 
communication, especially for 

33
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,600
people who don't think of 
themselves as paranormal at all.

34
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:52,800
Let's dive into the 
conversation. 

35
00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,360
So it's just that you're you're 
diving in early here for this. 

36
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,360
Rosie, thank you so much for 
being here. 

37
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,960
I got to tell you, you are the 
first person that I've come 

38
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:13,480
across that has a love for 
cemeteries as much as my nephew 

39
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:20,320
here and such a unique way of 
how you show that love with your

40
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,960
book to Die for, which we're 
going to get into. 

41
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,400
Absolutely. 
That's why you're here. 

42
00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:29,560
And I learned a new word which 
which was well, I think I 

43
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,760
learned a new word and I just 
lost it a Taff. 

44
00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:38,280
A taffophile? 
Yeah, people who love cemeteries

45
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,320
and gravestones. 
So you guys are a couple 

46
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,760
taffies, I guess that's what it 
is. 

47
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,600
Both taffies. 
Both taffies. 

48
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,240
So Rosie, I I got to find out 
how you became 1. 

49
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,160
You know, so it's like, how did 
you so you grew up around ghost 

50
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,320
tours and cemeteries, right? 
And this is because of your 

51
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,720
parents. 
Yeah, I, I mean, maybe John, I'm

52
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,000
curious for you as well what 
your kind of origin and 

53
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,880
cemeteries were. 
But I, I grew up near a 

54
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,040
graveyard that I would walk 
through from, you know, it was 

55
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,000
like my shortcut through high 
school and to get back home on 

56
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,840
my walk home. 
Where was this? 

57
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,200
This was in Alexandria, VA, 
which had some really cool old 

58
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,920
cemeteries. 
And yes, my parents are now both

59
00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:25,200
ghost tour guides, so we would 
go on cemetery tours and ghost 

60
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,200
tours all throughout my 
childhood. 

61
00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,920
And so cemeteries are just so 
rad. 

62
00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:34,720
And it's so fun to see how each 
one is so different and they're 

63
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,560
all, you know, such a marker of 
each place and location. 

64
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,320
But I don't think I really knew 
a lot of the, like, behind the 

65
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,160
scenes work, how much work it is
to do the upkeep for a cemetery 

66
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,680
until I interned in one. 
And that was 2021. 

67
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,760
So that was my sort of like more
lift into this area. 

68
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,240
And I have such a strong 
appreciation for people who do 

69
00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,520
gravestone cleaning and 
preservation work because it's 

70
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,920
truly such a labor of love. 
That's a. 

71
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,920
That's a long time between being
what was that? 

72
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,160
What was it? 
What the world look like through

73
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,480
your eyes of, you know, younger 
you walking through cemeteries 

74
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,360
to walk home and and being 
around ghosts and or your 

75
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,360
parents? 
Is there a belief in it? 

76
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,480
You know, how did that play up 
to your What was Halloween like?

77
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,680
Oh man, Halloween's awesome. 
It's always been the Grants 

78
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:30,040
favorite holiday and, you know, 
I'm Irish Catholic, which has so

79
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,240
many good ghost stories and 
spooky stories that the family 

80
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,320
would just tell. 
But then even for the cemetery 

81
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,480
side themselves, I think it gave
me this just, you know, 

82
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,600
appreciation for history and how
each gravestone tells a story. 

83
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,320
And yeah, I think younger me 
wasn't super surprised that 

84
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:53,080
older me just wrote a book about
cemeteries, particularly a 

85
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,880
cookbook, because I love food as
well. 

86
00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,880
So honestly, I feel like the the
Gravestone Recipe cookbook is 

87
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,200
such a combination of my family 
gathering around the table and 

88
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,880
telling stories, whether on 
Halloween or otherwise. 

89
00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,880
Amazing. 
So from you were trained as an 

90
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,240
archivist, right? 
And then you wanted to be a a 

91
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,960
librarian? 
I, I, I have never met anybody 

92
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,880
who was who wanted to be a 
librarian. 

93
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:20,840
What is that? 
Is that just? 

94
00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:22,480
Because of the love one other 
person. 

95
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,800
So this is actually pretty wild.
So yeah, what was? 

96
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,240
Your I, I'm so curious, like 
what that's a real, like are you

97
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,240
data-driven or what is that 
drive to, to go down that road 

98
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,280
do? 
You like to smell bold books. 

99
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,880
Yes, absolutely. 
Yeah, no A. 

100
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,680
Lot of people, yeah. 
Right are do you all have big 

101
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,080
library folks? 
Especially if you're in Los 

102
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,080
Angeles with some of the best 
libraries. 

103
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:54,680
My daughter is a giant bookworm,
you know, so she loves old 

104
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,560
bookstores. 
I wouldn't say she frequents 

105
00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,840
libraries too much, but she 
loves a good mom and pop sort of

106
00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:04,080
classic bookstore. 
She loves going in those. 

107
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:05,880
That's her. 
That's her favorite thing. 

108
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,040
But for you, like, how did that?
What was it like? 

109
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,960
That's a lot like to reclusive 
nature. 

110
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,600
Like what is it about being an 
archivist and a librarian? 

111
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,200
And I have a point to all these 
questions by the way. 

112
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,400
But I don't know. 
I love this. 

113
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,760
This is it's a great question. 
Well, so I was working at a 

114
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,720
museum pre going into library 
science and I should say I was 

115
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,200
an English major. 
I always loved libraries. 

116
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,600
My uncle who was a spooky 
Halloween loving guy, he's my 

117
00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:35,520
godfather as well as my dad's 
younger brother, also a 

118
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,080
librarian. 
And so I think when I was a kid,

119
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,160
I was also very inspired. 
My favorite movies, The Mummy. 

120
00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,080
And when you know Rachel Weisz's
characters, like I'm a librarian

121
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,280
and actually technically she's 
more of an archivist because 

122
00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:51,120
she's very into like the objects
and the preservation. 

123
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,120
Rosie, that might be the 
nerdiest thing you're going to 

124
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,080
say today, right? 
Right. 

125
00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,000
To point out, excuse me, you are
not a librarian. 

126
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,480
You are an archimist. 
Might be. 

127
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:06,240
Yeah, absolutely, I wrote. 
You know, I mean, we all have 

128
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:07,480
these things. 
Exactly. 

129
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,880
And I mean, even I saw that 
movie and I was like, golly, I 

130
00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,600
want to be a librarian too 
someday. 

131
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,840
What's what's so wild to think 
about that that whole thing is 

132
00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,720
the fact that there are items 
right now that have been 

133
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,560
archived that we still don't 
know where they come from. 

134
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,760
We don't have the exact origins.
And we're still finding new 

135
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,440
things about these items. 
Like you see, like articles all 

136
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,800
the time. 
Like, you know, like, hey, you 

137
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,880
know, this was in an archive for
50-60 years and we just figured 

138
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,160
out what this was, you know? 
So that's pretty cool. 

139
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,760
Yeah, maybe we all want. 
Amiana Jones in Somerset in some

140
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,400
sense, you know, but but she 
didn't do it. 

141
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,080
But yeah, right. 
He was, he was he was the 

142
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,320
professor as opposed to the 
adventurer. 

143
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:47,680
So you went down the Librarian 
Rd.? 

144
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,320
No, it's it's. 
Through the size of the same 

145
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:51,720
coin. 
And it's because of the 

146
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,160
archivist. 
So I think even working in the 

147
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,360
museum, the archivist job is to,
they're less on the curator side

148
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,920
or the professor or the 
historian. 

149
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,160
They're really around to make 
sure the objects are in the best

150
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,240
condition to have for the few 
people in the future. 

151
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,480
So yeah, that could be like, we 
don't know what this is. 

152
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,120
They're going to try to take 
care of the object as best as we

153
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,720
can until we learn more. 
New histories are always coming 

154
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,600
out. 
New contexts are always being 

155
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,720
added to objects. 
And I was very inspired by 

156
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,040
community archives, which a lot 
of cemeteries fall under this of

157
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,240
like, you know, we have like 
institutional archives of like 

158
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,680
land records and management and 
ownership of property and things

159
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,840
like that. 
And community archives is more 

160
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,400
like every community has a 
story. 

161
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,200
A lot of, again, the cemetery 
preservation work, which can go 

162
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,360
into land ownership, you know, 
people buy a plot, but also that

163
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,120
goes into the stories of like 
who are these people that 

164
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,000
history might have forgotten? 
So it's gets to be the arc of 

165
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,320
his job to uncover that, to 
protect that story and to help 

166
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,240
people in the future learn it. 
So I was very inspired by all of

167
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,920
that. 
And also, I mean, yeah, as early

168
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,040
days of the pandemic, I was so 
inspired by like, like, all of 

169
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,680
my classmates in library science
school were just librarians. 

170
00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:09,360
They were already librarians, 
and they just wanted to be more 

171
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,280
helpful. 
They were like, putting 

172
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,840
themselves through school, 
paying for a master's degree 

173
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,400
because they're like, how do I 
be a better librarian than I 

174
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,920
already AM? 
And in my mind, I'm like, you're

175
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,120
already be helping everybody 
like I have. 

176
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,120
So many, I have so many 
questions about library science 

177
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,760
that but this is not the place. 
But we'll have to talk another 

178
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,120
time. 
Like just because I I do find 

179
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,240
it, it's just something I know 
nothing about. 

180
00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,320
So you're studying for this. 
You get an internship at the 

181
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,320
Congressional cemetery. 
It's just all about the same 

182
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,920
time, like you're a student and.
I'm a student at the time, yeah.

183
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,000
Now, what did you expect that 
job to be like? 

184
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,120
And what surprised you the most?
What is? 

185
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,800
What is interning at the 
Congressional Cemetery even 

186
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,800
mean? 
It's such a good question. 

187
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,640
I felt so. 
I mean, it was such a fortuitous

188
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,120
time because, yeah, a lot of 
libraries and archives were 

189
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,720
closed during, you know, early 
quarantine days. 

190
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,040
So I couldn't have gotten the 
same experience. 

191
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,080
But yeah, cemeteries were 
unfortunately in some cases 

192
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,160
busier than ever. 
And so I interned. 

193
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,680
Yeah, as it goes, I interned in 
the that the archives of 

194
00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:17,600
Congressional, which is one of 
Washington, DC's oldest 

195
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,400
cemeteries, and I basically was 
documenting the graves Jones. 

196
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,240
And we were putting this sort of
like online exhibition around 

197
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,160
their residents who are more 
famous of like they have some 

198
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,360
very famous activists and of 
course politicians that have 

199
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,560
gone through DC. 
They have some really unusual 

200
00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:39,480
cenotaphs and you know, other 
parts of the cemetery too. 

201
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,520
They have an apiary, they have 
history tours, they have a book 

202
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,600
club, they have a death doula. 
And it's very much a place 

203
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,640
that's trying to connect to the 
community and tell these 

204
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,680
stories. 
And so I was a part of that 

205
00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:52,840
work. 
It was awesome. 

206
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,760
I got to go to all of their 
events and they do movie nights 

207
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,800
and they do this one called Soul
Strolls where it's like during 

208
00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,320
the prohibition days in DC, they
had a lot of characters. 

209
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,720
So they retell all the character
stories and then you end at a 

210
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,800
Speakeasy at the end of the 
cemetery and it's just, it's a 

211
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,720
delightful, just a delightful 
place in general. 

212
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,440
It's like Hollywood forever out 
here that has all the events 

213
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:16,880
like that, right? 
Exactly. 

214
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,720
So I think Hollywood Forever, 
honestly, has been very 

215
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,240
inspirational to a lot of other 
cemeteries. 

216
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,880
And obviously some people, 
that's not for them. 

217
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,800
They don't want to be buried in 
a place that's like, so for the 

218
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,840
living, you know, it's nice that
we have options. 

219
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,560
But personally, I loved how 
welcoming they were to the 

220
00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:36,480
community. 
Congressional was a derelict 

221
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,840
cemetery even in the 90s. 
And then the local community 

222
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,360
came together and it actually 
was these random dog walkers in 

223
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,760
the neighborhood who started 
this sort of association. 

224
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,680
And now you pay an annual fee 
and that goes to the 

225
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:52,200
preservation and you can walk 
your dog in the cemetery. 

226
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,560
And it's a two year waiting list
to try to be in this membership 

227
00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:59,960
group, which basically just goes
to the upkeep of the cemetery. 

228
00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:03,120
So not for everyone, but a 
really interesting model. 

229
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,160
Everything else. 
I could see, I could see John 

230
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:08,600
like loving this every second 
of. 

231
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,280
This well, because listen, you 
know, other than Hollywood 

232
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,400
forever, not many cemeteries do 
what she's speaking about. 

233
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,320
Even even even still, a lot of 
cemeteries are very recluse. 

234
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,840
I mean, even take the famous 
Sleepy Hollow Cemetery. 

235
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,040
Sure, they do tours this, that 
and the other, but they are 

236
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,960
super strict on who's walking 
around and who's doing what. 

237
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,320
So, yeah, no, I, I love hearing 
about all this because I love 

238
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,720
the old Victorian ways of 
cemeteries where people went and

239
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,280
picnicked and, you know, brought
their kids and it was more like 

240
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,960
a park, you know, setting. 
So I'm, I'm all for that. 

241
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I'm I'm enjoying this. 

242
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:55,640
So when you say, when you say 
Rosie, you were documenting the 

243
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,600
graves there, what does that 
mean exactly? 

244
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,520
Is this what is that like where 
it is? 

245
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,520
Yeah, where it is, Congressional
actually has an app, but we 

246
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,480
also, I mean, I think every 
cemetery does it a little bit 

247
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,160
differently. 
But when you take a photo, that 

248
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,640
helps with the Geo coordinates 
of something if you have 

249
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,560
locations turned on. 
And so you can later get the Geo

250
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:19,360
coordinates for where a person 
is. 

251
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,200
And if you take that photo over 
the gravestone, they're 

252
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,720
obviously way fancier devices 
doing that. 

253
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,360
But like taking a photo on your 
phone has a marker of what the 

254
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,360
location is. 
And so we would use those Geo 

255
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,080
coordinates for each of the 
stones. 

256
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,160
I should say our cemetery wasn't
that big. 

257
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,120
I mean, compared to like, you 
know, these beautiful rural 

258
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,480
cemeteries that you were talking
about, John, that had the 

259
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,760
picnicking, a Greenwood 
cemetery, a Mount Auburn, places

260
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,360
like that. 
But even for ours, it's big 

261
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,760
enough that like, if someone 
wanted to go find, for instance,

262
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,360
Leonard Matlovitch, she was a 
very famous gay rights activist,

263
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,640
you would be able to actually 
find the coordinates of his 

264
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,120
grave and then a little story 
for him. 

265
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,120
And you know, some of these will
just be used in like brochures. 

266
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,080
So people can pick up a free 
brochure. 

267
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,760
They can walk around the 
cemetery and find each person. 

268
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,160
I think we're getting into more 
QR codes. 

269
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,840
This is since I've left. 
But my understanding is there's 

270
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,280
now these little things. 
So as you're walking around and 

271
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:15,720
you're like, oh, what a cool 
grave. 

272
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,400
Who is this person if the family
exactly? 

273
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,680
And you can learn like a little 
bit about each person. 

274
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,200
There's got to be somebody. 
Somebody's got to be out there 

275
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,000
that's got AQR code engraved on 
their headstone. 

276
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,360
Oh, there's a bunch of it. 
And then when you do it, you get

277
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,560
Rick rolled. 
Well, well, there's not like, 

278
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,440
it's not like they're not 
engraved, but there's like I, I 

279
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,800
visited cemeteries where you see
QR codes stuck on, stuck on the 

280
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,440
headstone and you scan it and it
brings up like, there's couple 

281
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,880
different companies now that do 
it and, but they don't last, 

282
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,400
unfortunately, what weather they
end up getting weathered and, 

283
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,200
and, and whatnot. 
But the documentation part is so

284
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,440
cool because, you know, let's be
real, anything can happen in a 

285
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,320
cemetery. 
If it's got trees, branches can 

286
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,800
fall, trees can fall over, 
stones can get pulverized. 

287
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,840
Somebody drunk and go running 
through a cemetery and run over 

288
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,440
headstones and to be it happens.
You know, on my live, I caught 

289
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,920
somebody going off an embankment
and plowing over a couple of 

290
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,840
headstones. 
These things happen. 

291
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,440
So taking those pictures and 
having that original picture 

292
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,560
with the Geo coordinates is like
super helpful, especially for 

293
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,600
restoration purposes. 
That's wild. 

294
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,320
All right, so Rosie, take us 
back to the first time you 

295
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,360
actually saw a recipe on a 
gravestone. 

296
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,920
Well, the very first time. 
So I, I should say this was also

297
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,960
part of my, my program. 
I was in a class that was like, 

298
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,080
how does social media work? 
And I think the idea is like a 

299
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,520
lot of libraries have to be on 
social media for advocacy 

300
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,960
reasons and of course, 
educational teaching people 

301
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,800
about their programs and free 
resources. 

302
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,480
And so it was just like sort of 
a one-on-one, but we had to 

303
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,280
start an account from scratch on
a topic. 

304
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,360
And my professor, this was at 
the same time I was in the 

305
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,000
cemetery internship. 
So she was like, why don't you 

306
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,680
make your make a TikTok about 
what it's like to intern at a 

307
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,880
cemetery? 
So I was featuring different 

308
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,640
memorials and gravestones and 
sort of like things that I was 

309
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,200
learning because I found it all 
very new. 

310
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,520
I didn't know that people had QR
codes. 

311
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,680
I didn't know that people that 
didn't say jokes or unusual, 

312
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,920
like if you have dogs that you 
like, you could put your statue 

313
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,240
of your dog with your grave. 
Like anything could go on to a 

314
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,360
gravestone technically within 
reason. 

315
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,960
And so you know what I mean? 
Like, it was really cool. 

316
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,080
So I was first featuring other 
Washington, DC based places and 

317
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,920
cemeteries, and then I moved on 
to just other interesting graves

318
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,520
that I learned about in general.
And that's how I learned about a

319
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,680
woman named Naomi Odessa Miller 
Dawson, who's at Greenwood 

320
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,480
Cemetery, one of these sort of 
Victorian era rural cemeteries 

321
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,720
that people would picnic. 
Greenwood in Brooklyn. 

322
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,160
In Brooklyn, not Poland. 
Is is is that is that the one 

323
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:57,680
that has the is it the no bake 
no the Dale and and the Dale 

324
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,080
bread recipe is that that one? 
So the the Dayton Nut Bread 1 is

325
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,800
just a little bit north of New 
York City in Highland Mill. 

326
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,119
The one that's the. 
Only one I know that's close to 

327
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,480
me. 
Oh, no way. 

328
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,720
That's awesome. 
That one is real good. 

329
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:11,920
Connie's. 
Yeah. 

330
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,079
No, that's a really, again, very
close to New York. 

331
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,920
And I actually visited the two 
women the same day when I first 

332
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,880
went up. 
Beautiful area. 

333
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,280
Oh my gosh, that's such a 
beautiful area. 

334
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,160
And yeah, Naomi is the one with 
the spritz cookie recipe, so she

335
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,800
was the very first one I learned
about. 

336
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,360
There's this website called 
Atlas Obscura that has just, 

337
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:34,600
like, off the beaten path things
that I loved reading through or 

338
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,640
submitting to and sort of like, 
you can pull up a map of, like 

339
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,440
where you are, lots of cemetery 
stories, lots of gravestones 

340
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,640
featured. 
And it's, yeah, crowdsourced but

341
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,160
very well curated. 
And I was just like obsessed 

342
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,800
with this idea of like, someone 
put a recipe on their 

343
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,200
gravestone. 
It is genius, not only that it 

344
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:58,000
but but and then for you to 
recognize that and it is be I 

345
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,200
mean, look, I'm ATV producer, 
right? 

346
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,200
That's kind of what my 
background is in development and

347
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,960
like, and I'm sure 100 people 
have said that this would be ATV

348
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,760
show, which you should just do 
it yourself and make fortune 

349
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,960
covering it, But it's like it is
anyway, sorry, I'm interrupting 

350
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,680
you, but the fact that you saw 
it, capitalized on it and like, 

351
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,000
Oh my God, did other people do 
this And you recognize it right 

352
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,720
away. 
Something unique is, you know, 

353
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,640
testament to yourself. 
So you see this, you find this 

354
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,960
thing in an Atlas obscure. 
You, you go there to really see 

355
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,000
it one-on-one, and then you 
what? 

356
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,960
Go for it. 
I think this was in the 

357
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,040
beginning. 
So I mean, basically it was just

358
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,560
like I was posting every single 
day because that was the 

359
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,080
requirement for the class. 
So I was just featuring a 

360
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,040
different person. 
So I think I didn't even 

361
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,480
recognize this like greater 
power particularly. 

362
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,120
I didn't know there were other 
people that had this. 

363
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,720
I just thought like it was 
basically like a Tuesday feature

364
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,280
where I was like, wow, someone 
did this and like, what do these

365
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,040
cookies taste like? 
So I posted the process on 

366
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:03,440
TikTok and all these comments 
came in where I was very struck 

367
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,400
by like, you know, a lot of 
people were commenting things 

368
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,800
like, wow, that's so cool. 
What I put on my gravestone and 

369
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,680
like engaging with this topic, 
which I thought was interesting.

370
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,720
But even more so I was getting 
comments from people being like,

371
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,120
you know, my mom passed away 
recently. 

372
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:19,520
I still make her recipe when I 
miss her. 

373
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,600
And I was just this really 
deeply personal story after 

374
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,600
story, private messages of 
people just talking about them 

375
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,680
losing someone and how they were
using food to remember them. 

376
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,840
And they have still have their 
recipe or they wish they had 

377
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,840
their recipe. 
And so my brother lives in 

378
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,720
Brooklyn and I have a lot of 
family in Brooklyn. 

379
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,200
So my mom and I had driven up 
just to go to the area. 

380
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,360
And we were like, well, why 
don't we visit Naomi while we 

381
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,280
were there? 
And I was thinking of what I 

382
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,360
hadn't met with her family yet 
at that point. 

383
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,160
Again, very well featured on the
Internet. 

384
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,120
But I was wondering what flowers
that I should bring to her are, 

385
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:55,960
like what her favorite flowers 
might have been. 

386
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,920
And then I thought, well, you 
know, she has this cookie 

387
00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,760
recipe. 
I should bring her cookies. 

388
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,760
So that's why I brought Naomi's 
cookies. 

389
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,640
And that kind of just started it
off of like, my mom and I had a 

390
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,200
cookie tasting right next to 
her. 

391
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,720
And it felt very much in the old
Victorian tradition of 

392
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,440
picnicking with lost loved ones 
at a cemetery. 

393
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,880
And it felt really, really 
right. 

394
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,680
It's just there's something 
about it. 

395
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,200
And like, And so then going on 
to Connie, who you're near, 

396
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,400
Connie is a little bit north of 
New York City and she has a date

397
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,800
and nut bread. 
And I was like, well, if I'm 

398
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,840
visiting Naomi, I should visit 
Connie. 

399
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:31,560
And after that, I just started 
researching more folks and more 

400
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,680
people. 
So the first eight or so recipes

401
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,040
and people I found on the 
Internet, they were featured in 

402
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,760
news and blogs and podcasts. 
And then after that, families 

403
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,840
themselves started reaching out,
which just kind of changed the 

404
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,400
entire project for me. 
Did you get way in this class? 

405
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,800
Which wild is, is is I can only,
I can only really think that 

406
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,720
they're they're, I mean, how 
many people actually put a 

407
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,080
recipe on a headstone? 
It has to be less than, if I had

408
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,840
to take a guess, 200. 
And then how many of them are 

409
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,000
weathered where you can't even 
tell. 

410
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,160
It looks like any other random, 
you know, encryption on a stone.

411
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,560
So I I so my question is, how 
many were you able to find, not 

412
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,760
just on your own, but with 
people reaching out to you? 

413
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,480
Yeah, they've all been 
crowdsourced to this date. 

414
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,320
I know of 52 around the world, 
mostly in the US And yeah, it is

415
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,600
such a good point of the weather
element. 

416
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,680
I mean, these are public outdoor
memorials. 

417
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,640
So you know, there's one in 
Nome, Alaska that the lettering 

418
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,040
this was a pretty easy fix and 
we're actually figuring out how 

419
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,480
to get the materials up to this 
family because it's easier to do

420
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,440
a DIY fix rather than fly 
someone up there knows hard to 

421
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,600
get to. 
But you know how like that has 

422
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,560
some lettering that's been 
engraved. 

423
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,080
There's this like white sort of 
paint. 

424
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,360
I'm sure there's a more 
professional word, but you can 

425
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,720
basically do the the re 
inscription because the 

426
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,560
engraving is still there. 
It's still a new enough 

427
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,000
gravestone. 
There's another woman in Maine, 

428
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,080
though, her grave shown faces 
up. 

429
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,320
It's a flatbed memorial and that
one is dealt with a lot of 

430
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,600
lichen and the external 
elements. 

431
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,760
And so the families talked about
having to clean that quite 

432
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,800
regularly in order to like still
be able to see the recipe. 

433
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,120
So it's so true, Like, and I 
should also say I benefited from

434
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,120
none of these grave shins are 
that old. 

435
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:23,920
They're all in the, you know, 
twentyish years, pretty much 

436
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,320
granite made. 
So they'll they'll last a decent

437
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,200
amount, but they won't. 
Last for free Granite cleans up 

438
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,680
pretty easy too. 
And. 

439
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,240
All the headstones, granite 
cleans up pretty easy. 

440
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,760
Oh yes, 52. 
That's insane. 

441
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,480
Now, let me ask you a question. 
Do you think that there are any 

442
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,120
older ones? 
Do you think that maybe somebody

443
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:47,600
in the, you know, 1800s or early
1900s thought, you know what? 

444
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,960
I want my recipe on my 
headstone. 

445
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,280
This is me. 
This is what defines me. 

446
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,320
Do you think you'll ever find 
one of those? 

447
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,480
I would love that so much. 
I'm not sure if it would happen 

448
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,280
in North America. 
And from my understanding, and 

449
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,600
you might even know a little bit
more about this, I took a 

450
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,480
history of the American cemetery
class. 

451
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:11,360
So this is where this is like 
very basically based on, you 

452
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:14,440
know, in the olden days, 
cemeteries were, or I should say

453
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,240
graveyards had like, you know, 
first wood and then of course, 

454
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,000
that would disintegrate if they 
were marked at all. 

455
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,400
And then we moved on to marble 
and a lot of the stones were 

456
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,960
done by this family, I think 
around Boston, and so they would

457
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,520
mask are of a bunch and then 
ship them all out. 

458
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,800
So for the most that's why so 
many of these lots of memento 

459
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,960
Mori and like the very classic 
and you would just add Nate's 

460
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:39,440
birth dates, the basics. 
Now, that being said, I could 

461
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,680
totally like I was looking over 
like, what is the history of 

462
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,000
like leaving behind recipes? 
And there are like, you know, 

463
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,480
ancient Egyptian paves and 
pyramid adjacent types, things 

464
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,160
that a recipe would be left 
behind as far as like a death 

465
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,920
practice. 
So I wonder if I go a little bit

466
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,640
more cross culturally, I might 
get something older because that

467
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,040
would be so rad. 
I would love that. 

468
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,960
Yeah, that'd be very cool, 
wouldn't it? 

469
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,080
Wow. 
One day. 

470
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:06,880
One day, right? 
One day. 

471
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,360
Hey, listen, you never know. 
Yeah. 

472
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,680
Did you get an? 
Did you get an A in this class? 

473
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:13,840
I hope. 
Did you get an A in this class? 

474
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,040
Yeah. 
Could you imagine, could you 

475
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,640
imagine if you didn't get the A?
It's got to be a little bit. 

476
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,360
I mean, it's like, are you 
serious? 

477
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,520
I would, I would send that 
teacher. 

478
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,040
I would have sent that teacher 
your book, you know. 

479
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,640
I'd blast that teacher. 
I'd blast that teacher once a 

480
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,400
month on my social media. 
Yeah. 

481
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:33,080
Hey. 
Oh my God. 

482
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:33,680
Did you imagine? 
Yeah. 

483
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,280
Day 156. 
I'm telling this professor, you 

484
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,800
know, you only gave me a pay. 
It's crazy, Rosie. 

485
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,520
You know, you got a, you got a 
couple 100,000 followers now. 

486
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,440
I mean, obviously this thing is 
blown up and have you gotten 

487
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,840
any, I mean, even John gets this
quite a bit. 

488
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:53,080
How has the reaction been? 
I mean, have you gotten some 

489
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,920
negative reaction to it too? 
Where it's like, come on, you 

490
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,240
know? 
You're just, you shouldn't be 

491
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,200
there. 
You did that. 

492
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,720
Yeah. 
How do you handle? 

493
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,400
How do you manage that I? 
Think how do you manage 

494
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:05,720
honestly? 
And, and John, you made me feel 

495
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,240
the same because the idea I 
would love if like the 

496
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,080
association of gravestone 
studies, which is this like 

497
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,880
gravestone conference and and 
membership group that they 

498
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,520
engage with a lot of these 
topics. 

499
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:17,960
That's a lot of cemetery 
workers. 

500
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,400
But I think more and more so 
it's a lot of cemetery 

501
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,040
preservation workers and 
educators and yes, Tik Tokers 

502
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,920
and social media folks fall 
under that. 

503
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,600
And I definitely think that like
they're having like a camera and

504
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,440
documenting in a cemetery has a 
lot of pros and cons to it. 

505
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,080
And, you know, we've seen people
do things in cemeteries that are

506
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,440
against all the cemetery rules. 
Like most cemeteries have the 

507
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,280
rules and printed out their 
gates of like, you can do this, 

508
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,560
you can't do this. 
Don't be here in the middle of 

509
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,160
the night, you know, don't play 
around with the gravestones. 

510
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,040
Don't be disrespectful. 
Don't. 

511
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,840
Artificial flowers? 
No. 

512
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,160
You know, things like that. 
And then don't leave food 

513
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,040
behind. 
So that is a common, I do get 

514
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,360
frequently of like, yeah. 
And people are like, oh, you 

515
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:01,600
should leave the cookies for 
them. 

516
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,360
And I'm like, well, I've worked 
in a cemetery. 

517
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,880
I know who has to clean that up 
and usually just attracts 

518
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,160
animals. 
But, you know, if nothing else, 

519
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,800
I, I look at any of the negative
comments as people are on some 

520
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,480
level engaging with this topic 
because I do think death is very

521
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,920
taboo. 
Cemetery etiquette isn't 

522
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,400
necessarily taught to people of 
like, you know, you can most 

523
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,800
cemeteries, if anything, should 
be welcoming to people as long 

524
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,240
as you follow the rules, you're 
respectful, you know, you go 

525
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,880
through and read the names. 
And this is very much based out 

526
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,560
of the archive side of the idea 
that a lot of archives are 

527
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,160
really struggling because the 
community around them doesn't 

528
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,320
care. 
And eventually, if the community

529
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,200
doesn't care, including if they 
don't care about the cemetery, 

530
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,880
it becomes derelict if they're 
very expensive to maintain. 

531
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,560
And then eventually, like, you 
know, I'm from the DC area. 

532
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,160
We have had so many cemeteries 
bulldoze turned into parking 

533
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,680
lots and shopping malls. 
And it's the life of the 

534
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,840
cemetery depends on the local 
community connecting to it. 

535
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800
So while I can totally 
understand and people are, you 

536
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,040
know, engaging with death in 
their own way. 

537
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,320
So maybe they'll never be 
comfortable enough to walk into 

538
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,480
a cemetery themselves, at least 
like I would like to think, you 

539
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,960
know, them watching John 
respectfully cleaning 

540
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,240
gravestones with the permission 
of the cemetery. 

541
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,480
You're following on the rules. 
You're talking with them. 

542
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,920
And it's a celebration of these 
people. 

543
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:24,480
I do think that gets people one 
step closer to something that 

544
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,760
there's maybe a little 
uncomfortable to think about. 

545
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,680
And also it sets like guidelines
of like there are ways to 

546
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,640
ethically be in a cemetery, 
engage with the cemetery, be 

547
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,600
welcomed by the cemetery. 
So I think it's just you can, 

548
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,960
there's a healthy model out 
there basically, you know. 

549
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,840
You know, you're, you're 100% 
correct. 

550
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,920
And what I tell people, because 
I get this all the time, I say 

551
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,760
something that kind of throws 
people back. 

552
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:55,040
The first thing I say is 
cemeteries are a waste of space 

553
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:01,080
unless you're visiting them. 
These headstones are here as a 

554
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,040
testament to the micro history 
of the people that lived here. 

555
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,360
And if you're not there visiting
them that the cemetery is a 

556
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,360
waste of space, then there's no 
point for that cemetery. 

557
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:17,040
So why shy away from going and 
visiting a place, honoring that 

558
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,840
place, You know, soaking in the 
micro history, the people that 

559
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,240
live there, connecting with the 
the culture in the community 

560
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,200
that was there before you were, 
you know, it's, it's pretty 

561
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,720
crazy. 
You know, so Rose, you know, 

562
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,840
John sets boundaries for 
himself, right? 

563
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,840
Personal ones. 
He tries to avoid newer graves 

564
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,160
because of what he's doing with 
the spirit box and you know, 

565
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,000
he's going to these there's a 
lot of places obviously from 

566
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,680
civil or Revolutionary War in 
his area that he sticks to, 

567
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,800
right? 
What have you ever what personal

568
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,280
boundaries did you set for 
yourself when you went about 

569
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,600
this process? 
Because you're in these are 

570
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,120
newer graves, family's still 
alive and you're doing it. 

571
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,160
So how what, how did you, what 
was, what were your own rules or

572
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,960
how did you sort of do this? 
Absolutely, yeah. 

573
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,560
And the ethics around this I 
think again are like it's it is 

574
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,200
a little bit based off of like 
comfort level and then yeah, 

575
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,320
engaging with the family in 
order to feature the family. 

576
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,960
And if this was the biggest part
with the book too, was I needed 

577
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,720
to get permission from the 
families. 

578
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,360
Of course it was the best case 
scenario if the person's, you 

579
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,640
know, daughter or son reached 
out or their, you know, 

580
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,840
brother-in-law or whoever. 
It's like a connection to the 

581
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,680
person reached out being like, 
Oh my gosh, I thought my mom was

582
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,400
the only one who did this. 
You should try their recipe. 

583
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,880
That's the best case scenario. 
Certainly the easiest 

584
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,440
logistically. 
Certainly the easiest. 

585
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:36,960
Yeah exactly. 
And then I get to. 

586
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,600
But there was a case of 1 
gentleman who he was featured on

587
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,440
the Internet before external to 
me. 

588
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,520
He was just kind of like in the 
cemetery photos rotation and I 

589
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,040
got connected with his 
sister-in-law. 

590
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,720
And his sister-in-law was so 
excited. 

591
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,120
She was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so
glad John's being included in 

592
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,280
this. 
This is wonderful. 

593
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,880
John never got married and he 
didn't have any children. 

594
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,320
And so eventually I got 
connected to his brother who was

595
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,800
like next of kin and did, you 
know, manage to the state and 

596
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,960
everything. 
And his brother was like, you 

597
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,920
know, this is a really personal 
topic. 

598
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,360
I would act like, you know, 
we're grieving. 

599
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,640
He didn't die that long ago. 
We would actually rather him not

600
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,040
be included. 
You know, other people on the 

601
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,240
Internet have already featured 
him. 

602
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,280
But would you mind not posting 
about him not including him in 

603
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,640
the book? 
And I was like, oh, my gosh. 

604
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,600
Of course. 
So like, they needed to be the 

605
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,360
ones to dictate that of like. 
And like, there's no right or 

606
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,240
wrong answer. 
If they are like, in some of the

607
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,280
cases with the families, they'd 
be like, let me think about it, 

608
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,080
like, check in with me in a year
and like, let's see how I feel. 

609
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,480
And it'd be like, OK, setting a 
calendar alert. 

610
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,320
I'm going to check in with you 
in a year. 

611
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,160
And then a year later would go 
by and be like, hey, how are you

612
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,160
feeling about this? 
So I mean, every family is a 

613
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,680
little bit different. 
And I think in addition to, of 

614
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,000
course, like, you know, these 
are public memorials, but it is 

615
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,680
a family that's lost someone and
like they are grieving. 

616
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,600
And this is like a very personal
thing to each one. 

617
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,960
So it really had to rely on how 
each of the families dealt with 

618
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,840
it. 
And yeah, so some of the ones 

619
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,080
that I would document them, but 
they never went beyond being 

620
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,480
documented just because I was 
never able to either meet with 

621
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,080
the family, confirm with the 
family. 

622
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,680
So that's why there's only 42 
that are featured or excuse me, 

623
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,480
40 that are featured and 15, 
well, I should say no 12:00-ish.

624
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,440
But we're still in the rotation 
of either I never got permission

625
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,000
from the family or I was never 
able to contact the family. 

626
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Like I'm still looking to reach 
out to them. 

627
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,320
And then as far as just like 
personal boundaries, I just 

628
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,320
generally don't really, if a 
video does well enough, I don't 

629
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,000
read the comments because I'm 
like once it gets beyond a 

630
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,880
certain threshold, everyone's 
weighing in on the pros and. 

631
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,160
Cons Yeah, forget it. 
I just, I'm like, I'm not going 

632
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,480
to put myself through that. 
I will generally read through 

633
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,400
again. 
People write some really lovely 

634
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,400
things. 
Sometimes people will ask like 

635
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,160
details of how to make the 
recipe or if the families 

636
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,800
themselves will comment being 
like, that's my grandma, which 

637
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,800
is really lovely. 
So. 

638
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,200
But beyond that, I generally 
don't read my comments because 

639
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,600
I'm like, I don't need to know, 
yeah. 

640
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,600
There's a lot of crazies in this
space. 

641
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,320
They're crazy. 
What's the Internet? 

642
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,000
That's how it is. 
And we're talking about, you 

643
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,600
know, like graves and dead 
people. 

644
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,400
It's just like there's people 
that are just. 

645
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,880
Bananas. 
Yeah, yeah, I've dealt with a 

646
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,920
lot of unfortunate mental 
illness in in this field. 

647
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,800
So it's. 
Yeah, it's crazy. 

648
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,440
All right, so let's get into the
food just a little bit. 

649
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,280
I got to imagine what was a 
common, what was the common 

650
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,120
ingredient? 
Because, you know, here's the 

651
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,200
thing that makes me laugh, 
right? 

652
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,400
Because everyone will say like, 
oh, my great grandmother's 

653
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,920
chocolate chip cookies were the 
best ever. 

654
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,520
And it's like, yeah, man. 
That's because, like, she 

655
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,280
literally used the fat from the 
goat she just killed. 

656
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,840
That stuff's delicious, right? 
So you know what I mean? 

657
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,240
Like was like lard and the 
biggest ingredient, you know, 

658
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,520
like, what is that? 
What is that secret? 

659
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,000
What did you find as the most 
common, delicious secret 

660
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,720
ingredient in all of your 
recipes? 

661
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,560
Definitely lots of shortening 
ones which you know a lot of 

662
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,400
people would probably shy away 
from. 

663
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,480
Quite a few margarine ones. 
These were post depression era 

664
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,040
so very classic like grandma's 
cookies mix 1,000,000 cookies 

665
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,800
uses so much shortening. 
They are really delicious in the

666
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,320
end some. 
Of the lard. 

667
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,080
Lard, yeah, Lard was being a 
separate one, so the fats would 

668
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,480
probably be the biggest like 
range of things. 

669
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,280
Some people just use butter 
lard. 

670
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,400
There's only one recipe that 
required lard and that was these

671
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,160
tea biscuit recipes from a Nova 
Scotia woman. 

672
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,320
And I didn't know how to get 
lard. 

673
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,920
Like I was like, where do I even
order that? 

674
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,720
So some of them, there was one 
that required guava and I had a 

675
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,280
lot of trouble finding guava. 
She lived in Florida and she 

676
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,000
would be able to just pick it 
from her tree. 

677
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,560
But weirdly in California I had 
so much trouble finding guava. 

678
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,720
So things like that. 
But you know, cookies and cakes 

679
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,960
were the biggest generally like 
wide span recipes that I found. 

680
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,400
I think also, like, you know, 
the recipe can be written pretty

681
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,120
simply so it fits onto an 
epitaph pretty well. 

682
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,800
And they were also a recipe 
associated with, like, birthdays

683
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,280
and special occasions and 
holidays, like gathering times 

684
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,920
when people would be like, 
looking forward to this recipe. 

685
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,920
So they all hosted this like 
thing in their house that people

686
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,159
would get excited about. 
And the recipe was like the 

687
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:17,360
center feature of it. 
Was there any non baking recipes

688
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,480
found yet? 
Yes, just a few. 

689
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,800
There's a ranch dip of a 
gentleman in Spokane, WA. 

690
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,480
A woman with a cheese dip 
recipe. 

691
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,199
Like a chilled cheese dip. 
I saw that. 

692
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,320
So good that. 
Sounds so good. 

693
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,199
It's so, Oh my gosh, it's 
outrage. 

694
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,880
You eat it with club crackers, 
it's like, oh, it's so good. 

695
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,120
The ranch ship is really good 
too. 

696
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,920
John, who's the the gentleman it
belonged to. 

697
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,600
It's just so good. 
And so, yeah, a meatloaf one 

698
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,679
where you have bacon on top. 
There's a casserole in 

699
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,320
Wisconsin, so there's enough 
savory ones to get around to, 

700
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,880
luckily. 
Nice. 

701
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,040
What do you think you're? 
What do you think that which one

702
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,240
was the most surprising to you 
in terms of not only the recipe 

703
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:11,720
or the story behind it? 
I think some of the ones just, 

704
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,040
that was a nice benefit of 
traveling to each one. 

705
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,000
Again, it started very randomly 
of like, well, I'm in New York 

706
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,600
and then I, I would travel to 
visit other ones as I was like 

707
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,280
going out. 
Like when I was moving from 

708
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,640
Virginia to California because 
my husband wanted to work out 

709
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,200
here. 
I visited a few people along the

710
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,720
way. 
There was a woman in Utah and 

711
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,360
you know, just a few other folks
scattered around the middle of 

712
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,040
the country. 
And then once once I started 

713
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,640
interviewing the families to get
the stories and I actually had a

714
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,400
book concept starting to come 
together, I was like, OK, I need

715
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,920
to actually like visit all of 
them. 

716
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,480
And I think with that, with each
trip, I learned so much about 

717
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,640
each person. 
Three of the women are still 

718
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,920
alive. 
And so this idea of pre planning

719
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,240
that you can put up your 
gravestone before you pass away 

720
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,240
and take care of all your 
details. 

721
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:01,440
And then you're you know, you 
have to wait. 

722
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,920
Hold. 
On Wait a second, three of the 

723
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,520
recipes you found on a 
headstone, there's These women 

724
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,200
were still alive. 
They already set it up. 

725
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,160
And they already set all the 
information and then the only 

726
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,920
thing that's left is the date 
that they that they pass away. 

727
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,040
Well, the body. 
Well, that too the body. 

728
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,600
But you'd be surprised how many 
of these headstones I come 

729
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,360
across where they never put that
final date in. 

730
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,080
Someone passes away, they, you 
know, they get buried and then 

731
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,400
the family. 
I did not realize that was a 

732
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,400
thing. 
That's a thing that's been going

733
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,040
on for for, I mean, I come. 
In the 1800s something. 

734
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,240
Like that? 
So when you call, did you know 

735
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:45,480
that when you call and they 
answer the phone and do you like

736
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,640
freak out or do you know that 
they're alive when you go? 

737
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,320
Well, the first woman who I 
learned about, she is named 

738
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,640
Peggy. 
She, her gravestone is up in 

739
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,840
Arkansas and her husband had 
passed away. 

740
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,440
So basically they were putting 
up a combined gravestone for the

741
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,640
two of them. 
So I knew there's another 

742
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,520
cemetery writer in the Ozarks 
area. 

743
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,480
She writes about cemeteries in 
the Ozarks. 

744
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,080
And she was like, FYI, there's 
this woman. 

745
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,280
So she was the one who like. 
So I basically learned about 

746
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,080
Peggy, her recipe and her being 
still alive all at the same 

747
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,120
time. 
And I actually cooked with her. 

748
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,920
So I like drove down last 
summer. 

749
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,120
We met up in her kitchen. 
All of her family was there. 

750
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,280
We cooked together. 
It was so lovely. 

751
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,720
And then we brought. 
All the sheets. 

752
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,000
She is still pretty young and 
cooking, cooking and kicking. 

753
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,600
Hopefully she still has a lot of
years left on her. 

754
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,160
But but you know, at the same 
time, like her husband had died.

755
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,080
And so I think it was just like,
well, we're already paying for 

756
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,720
this and all in a lot of cases 
too that people. 

757
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,560
It's so the second woman then I 
learned about who is in Alabama.

758
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,000
It's a beautiful cemetery and 
her and her husband are a little

759
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,640
on the older side. 
And I think they were like, we 

760
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,280
just want everything to be taken
care of. 

761
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,840
So our kids, we a get exactly 
what we want. 

762
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,720
We're in our favorite cemetery, 
which I believe was running out 

763
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:02,120
of space. 
It's a very popular cemetery in 

764
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,560
Huntsville. 
And so basically they're like, 

765
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,040
we get the space where we want. 
We get to whatever we want to 

766
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,200
put on our gravestone and then 
our kids don't have to pay for 

767
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,120
it or worry about it or worry 
like what do mom and dad want? 

768
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,880
Because they already picked it 
for them. 

769
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,680
And so, and then the third woman
I thought I didn't know had was 

770
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,200
still alive, but when I went and
visited her grave marker and 

771
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,040
it's her and her husband have 
these two twin grave markers in 

772
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,560
California and there's no death 
state on her. 

773
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,560
And I was like, wait, what? 
And then eventually someone was 

774
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,360
like, yeah, she still lives in 
the neighborhood. 

775
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,840
I guess it's like my wife had 
built and put one up for me 

776
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,040
bright or something. 
I like, wait a minute. 

777
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,800
It's like, no, no, I'm just 
getting ready for you. 

778
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,160
Getting. 
Ready for it? 

779
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,440
You know what I mean like to 
worry about it. 

780
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,160
I'm not I actually did not know 
people did that, you know, that 

781
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,800
are still like jumping around 
and you know, that's so you 

782
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,200
know, did you? 
I mean, this is sort of leads 

783
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,120
you to this question that did 
any perspective of you in terms 

784
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,080
of of what you knew or thought 
about grief or family history or

785
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,520
food even change while you put 
this book together? 

786
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,240
Like how do you know how did 
those? 

787
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,520
What was that sort of a 
connection for you? 

788
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,240
Yeah, I think my thoughts on it 
changed quite a lot during it. 

789
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,200
Both of my grandmother's passed 
away in the process of this 

790
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,000
research happening and starting,
and I was at both of their 

791
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,640
funerals and very much just 
reflecting on like us gathering 

792
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,000
around a table and eating the 
food that they had once made for

793
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,560
us. 
And I still want my one 

794
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,720
grandmother who passed away I'd 
lived with throughout college 

795
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,520
and she would make all of us 
have one of 32 grandkids. 

796
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,040
She would make every one of us 
this yellow cake birthday cake 

797
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,920
every year and for my mom's 
siblings. 

798
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,280
So she probably. 
That's her, She's Irish. 

799
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,520
There's a lot of. 
Irish Catholic, Yeah, there's a 

800
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,600
lot of. 
Them for. 

801
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,360
Sure, lots of kids. 
And so she would be making this 

802
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,480
cook, this cake every birthday. 
She must have just always had a 

803
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,720
cake coming out of the oven 
because she was always making it

804
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,160
and it was so special to me and 
my cousins. 

805
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,400
And we were just talking of 
like, we'll never have grandma's

806
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,240
cake again. 
My mom was like, it's literally 

807
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,280
Duncan Hines box cake. 
There's like nothing special 

808
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,320
about this cake. 
But for us, like the food, it 

809
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,320
just really transformed that 
experience. 

810
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,160
And whenever I eat it still, I 
still want that every birthday, 

811
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,640
I feel like I'm a little kid in 
her kitchen again. 

812
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,840
And food is this really powerful
memory tool. 

813
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,720
Like you taste this taste and 
like, you know, it's kind of 

814
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,560
like that Ratatouille movie 
where like the villain at the 

815
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,520
end eats the Ratatouille dish 
and he's suddenly like a little 

816
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,640
kid in his mom's kitchen. 
And I think who does that for 

817
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,080
us? 
So if you're grieving and you 

818
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,600
miss your person, you know, if 
you have their recipe or some 

819
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,960
ability to have some of the 
flavors you had with them. 

820
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,400
It felt like my grandmothers 
were back with me. 

821
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,320
And it seems like for a lot of 
the families, that was an 

822
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,960
important part too of like not 
only their legacy, they were 

823
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,800
very like giving people. 
So what I loved is like, it 

824
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,640
wasn't just like she liked 
baking or he was a good grill 

825
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,960
cook or whatever. 
It was like the tools to let you

826
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,240
continue on their tradition, 
which I really liked that. 

827
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:12,560
Now, yeah, there's definitely a 
nostalgia right to food you. 

828
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,960
And it does spark, you know, 
something in everyone in terms 

829
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,320
of a memory. 
Now, you don't have to say which

830
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,720
one. 
You don't have to be specific, 

831
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,760
but is there a recipe that you 
had that was like, this is kind 

832
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,160
of bullshit, Like, you know what
I mean? 

833
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,000
Like, like, because I've come 
across that with friends, like 

834
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,760
this is my grandmother's this, 
and she makes this the best. 

835
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,480
And then I've eaten it and I'm 
like, that's not really great. 

836
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,040
Like you like you love it 
because you grew up with it, you

837
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,360
know? 
But it sucks. 

838
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,320
It's a little Gary. 
Listen, Gary, we're biased 

839
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,360
because, you know, our our my 
great grandmother, your 

840
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,960
grandmother would be able to 
whip up, you know, incredible 

841
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,200
meals with basically nothing in 
her fridge. 

842
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,320
So we're very biased. 
Yeah, we are. 

843
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,920
That's true. 
We're we're both, we have an, we

844
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,000
have an Italian grandmother. 
So it's like, you know, forget 

845
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,080
it. 
It's it's, it's a little 

846
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,320
different when it comes to 
cooking, but it's, there's 

847
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,720
still, we've all been there 
right where you hear like, oh, 

848
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:08,200
you wait until you try my mom's 
this, do that. 

849
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,560
And then you try it and you're 
like, your mom kind of sucks. 

850
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,440
Yeah. 
You don't have to tell. 

851
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,760
You don't have to tell us, but 
did you ever come across a 

852
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,680
recipe or like this is not that 
good of a recipe for eternity to

853
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,280
have, I think. 
It's so funny because I, I 

854
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,920
definitely feel like, yeah, it 
is such a personal thing. 

855
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,120
And like, so I genuinely like, 
I'm a pretty like I'm just like,

856
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,360
I eat everything. 
I like everything. 

857
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,880
Like I, I'm very lucky that I 
don't have like allergies or 

858
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,760
things like that. 
And so I think while I was doing

859
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,800
this, like, yeah, at the end of 
the day, like I think it's 

860
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,560
interesting that people decided 
to do this for themselves 

861
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,360
regardless of what the recipe 
is. 

862
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,840
I mean, it could literally like 
my family's recipe is a box 

863
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,280
recipe. 
Like there's no one cares. 

864
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,280
We care a lot. 
And so beginning section of it 

865
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,440
was it was meant to be like, for
people who are like, wow, this 

866
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,200
came from a grave stone. 
That's so cool. 

867
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,200
You know, there's that element 
to it, too. 

868
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,360
But I think the deeper goal was 
for you to think about your 

869
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,640
personal food that. 
OK, yeah, who doesn't want an 

870
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,520
Italian grandma to be cooking 
for us that all of us would 

871
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,160
benefit from? 
But for some people, it might be

872
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,320
like, you know, like a ham 
sandwich that your dad made for 

873
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,320
you when you were sick and like,
that's really important to you. 

874
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,960
And like, you know, that might 
be worth preserving even just 

875
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,640
for yourself. 
And so I have like 21 questions 

876
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,680
to document your own food 
history, which for some people, 

877
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,040
it really might not be that 
complicated of like what they 

878
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,280
use or it might be it's no steak
tartare or anything. 

879
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,040
And I should say none of these 
gravestone recipes are super 

880
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,560
complicated. 
They're all like. 

881
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,920
You know. 
Yeah, exactly. 

882
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,160
There's only so much space 
there's. 

883
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,400
Only so much space and 
engravings expensive that that 

884
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,280
it's and it's a skill and it's a
skill. 

885
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,880
So, Rosie, I have to ask this, I
have to ask this and this is 

886
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,440
going to be a multi part 
question. 

887
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:01,720
In all of your adventures and 
and and knowledge and learning 

888
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:06,480
when it comes to cemeteries, 
have you a ever had an 

889
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,520
experience at one or B. 
You mean a paranormal? 

890
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:12,480
Experience. 
Yeah, yeah. 

891
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,520
Paranormal experience or while 
you were with these families, 

892
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,840
you know, making like the the 
recipes and doing all that, was 

893
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,560
there any ever like sort of 
paranormal experience where even

894
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,200
the family was like, I can't 
believe this happened? 

895
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,000
I love that question. 
I would definitely say the 

896
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,960
entire book itself. 
So it was maybe about two years 

897
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,720
ago, I had learned about maybe 
about 20 people's recipes, and I

898
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:45,480
connected with maybe about 10 of
the families. 

899
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,040
And I was chatting with this 
lady who eventually become my 

900
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,040
book editor. 
And we were talking about what 

901
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,160
we would need to accomplish for 
the actual book to come out. 

902
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,440
And in my mind, I was like, 
there is no way. 

903
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,800
There's just no way. 
We're never going to find all of

904
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,720
these people. 
We're not going to find 20 more 

905
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:07,680
recipes and get all the families
and get permission and travel to

906
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,840
visit all of them because some 
of them I didn't know where they

907
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,480
were at that point. 
They were just photos on the 

908
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,360
Internet and no one seemed to 
know the location or there. 

909
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,960
I would get rumors of 1 and I 
wouldn't be able to track it 

910
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,880
down. 
And so almost on like an every 

911
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,720
other week basis, some crazy 
synchronicity thing would be 

912
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:27,280
happening. 
Like I was tracking down a woman

913
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,520
who was allegedly buried in 
California, had been hearing 

914
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,120
about this California carrot 
cake and someone had it there. 

915
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,320
This is the woman who actually 
ends up being still alive. 

916
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:41,320
And the day that I learned about
one woman, her like daughter 

917
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,960
reached out like separately and 
she was like, oh, I just heard 

918
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,480
about you. 
And I was like, I literally have

919
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,280
been searching for your mom for 
years. 

920
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,760
And she was like, oh, I was 
chatting with a friend and I 

921
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,760
thought this was and so just 
like really crazy or like 

922
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,040
another family when I was like 
trying to research them, like 

923
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,240
randomly I would get a message 
from their like great 

924
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:00,040
granddaughter or something like 
that. 

925
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,040
So maybe this is less 
paranormal, but it is like the 

926
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,720
synchronicity that happened is 
like it was crazy. 

927
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:09,760
Like I, it was so many Hail Mary
throws in my mind. 

928
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,600
I was like, there is no way I 
will get in touch with everyone.

929
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,040
I will be able to, like, set up 
calls, you know, do interviews, 

930
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,720
get the blessing, get everyone 
to review all the stories. 

931
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:23,560
That was an important part. 
And so it is like, yeah, that's 

932
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,440
maybe less exciting. 
I definitely felt when I would 

933
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,640
bring the recipe to each grave, 
like little things would happen 

934
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,320
of, like, it would be raining 
and a storm would let up right 

935
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,360
when I would get to the cemetery
and a really beautiful rainbow 

936
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,200
would come over. 
There's another woman has this 

937
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,680
thing about white feathers. 
She would always say, like, if 

938
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,120
you see a white feather, that's 
me. 

939
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:43,960
That's a sign from me from 
above. 

940
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,400
And I just started seeing white 
feathers all the time afterwards

941
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:49,960
and just little things like 
that. 

942
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,200
Like I was just like, I don't 
know, again, like I have my own,

943
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,560
like grow up Catholic and I have
my own beliefs. 

944
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,120
And I'd like to think of these 
people with all of our loved 

945
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,440
ones living on in some way or 
another in a good place and 

946
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,240
seeing all of these things that 
just randomly connected. 

947
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,760
It's just was like so many tiny 
synchronicity movements, nothing

948
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,480
ever crazy, nothing ever like, 
you know, no cooking bowls 

949
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,360
moving on their own or anything 
like that. 

950
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,920
But definitely like a lot of 
presents were felt of that sense

951
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:22,960
that. 
Makes perfect sense. 

952
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,040
Well, thank you. 
Do you? 

953
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,600
Do you, do you believe in ghosts
and spirits? 

954
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,160
Things like that. 
I think I'd like to I think like

955
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,720
I lean on healthy skeptic. 
I freaking love a ghost show. 

956
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:36,960
I love watching. 
I love on your channel with just

957
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,120
like talking to people and like 
hearing like just so much of it.

958
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:46,120
I love I think like I I the joke
is like when you grow up 

959
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,320
Catholic or you go to Catholic 
school is it makes you very like

960
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,680
agnostic questioning afterwards.
So of course you know. 

961
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,840
Yeah, we did the same with both 
of us. 

962
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:56,480
Yeah, that's. 
Why? 

963
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,800
We're very much on, right? 
Exactly like you kind of have to

964
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,280
be. 
Yeah, it's it's nuts. 

965
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,200
What do you think spirits are? 
I ask all our guests this. 

966
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,440
I love that. 
I think like I love the idea of 

967
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,080
the soul having some sort of 
like actual energy or something 

968
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,800
like that. 
And then that just goes on and 

969
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,080
continues on. 
I mean, for me, I find like the 

970
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,360
this project has given me so 
much like meaning of like 

971
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,640
connecting with others and 
connecting through food and 

972
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,800
connecting through the dead that
I would love to believe even 

973
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,960
maybe less so for myself. 
But I would love to believe that

974
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,960
all of my loved ones and friends
and family and everyone I get to

975
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,640
meet will go on and just like 
just just go on somewhere, 

976
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,720
whatever that means. 
Yeah, again, energy sounds like 

977
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:47,840
a really boring. 
So no, that's. 

978
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,640
A that's a long line, yeah. 
Thank you for you'd be 

979
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,560
surprised, although a lot of 
guests have trouble answering 

980
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,400
that question. 
So thank you for that, you know,

981
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,080
forthright with that. 
They're always afraid. 

982
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,880
Every, everyone's afraid to 
answer it. 

983
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:02,880
They're they, they, they don't 
want to admit. 

984
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,240
It's like we're like, look, man,
we're talking about ghosts here.

985
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:06,480
Like we don't know the. 
Daddy Shit. 

986
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,240
We don't know what they are. 
It's all right. 

987
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:10,240
There's no this isn't a test. 
Yeah, exactly. 

988
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,320
There's no wrong answer. 
Right, mind you. 

989
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:19,760
Do you do you have a a recipe of
your own? 

990
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:29,320
And will that recipe in the in 
the far future possibly end up 

991
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,280
on a headstone? 
Yes, I feel like I have to at 

992
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,160
this point. 
And I always like, love 

993
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,480
cemeteries. 
So I'm actually working with 

994
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,640
Congressional Cemetery where I 
interned. 

995
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,280
We joked that will I be put in 
the intern plot like the intern 

996
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,320
section to be inferred there 
eventually. 

997
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,240
But my husband and I are buying 
a double plot there. 

998
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,120
And I mean, I, I haven't 
decided. 

999
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,320
I, I, of course, I feel like of 
course a gravestone recipe. 

1000
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,560
And if I had to pick one right 
now would be a clam linguine or 

1001
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,560
like clam pasta. 
I really love clam based dishes.

1002
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,280
I as a kid, that was like one of
my favorite flavors. 

1003
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,440
And as an adult, since we moved 
to California, like I love 

1004
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,640
hosting people and making like 
homemade pasta. 

1005
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,080
And you crank it out and you let
the noodles dry and then you 

1006
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,960
throw it all and like get the 
white wine sauce and the parsley

1007
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,440
and the clams cooking and you 
get to like enjoy the smells of 

1008
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,120
it and then tasting it all 
together. 

1009
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,520
And it's briny. 
And he's from Maine. 

1010
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,360
So I felt like the clam has like
a nice connection to Maine and 

1011
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,400
Maine food as well. 
So that's what I would pick if 

1012
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,800
it was right now, but maybe, 
maybe forever. 

1013
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:41,560
First of all, Rosie, Rosie, 
thank you so much for your time 

1014
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:42,320
today. 
I got one more. 

1015
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,720
I got one more quick question 
for you, you know, and for 

1016
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,080
everyone, obviously, this is 
Rosie Grant her book to die for.

1017
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:53,640
It's a best seller taking these 
recipes off of headstones and 

1018
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:55,800
putting them together. 
Great name too, by the way. 

1019
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,400
Great name, you know. 
It's a great name, it's per 

1020
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,800
everything, everything about it 
is absolutely perfect. 

1021
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:03,840
It's one of those great ideas. 
You want to kick yourself for 

1022
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,480
it. 
It's just so, it's just so 

1023
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,080
wonderful. 
What's. 

1024
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,560
And you can also find Rosie at 
Ghostly Archive on social media.

1025
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,440
What is next for you? 
What is next for Ghostly Archive

1026
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,040
now that this is out and about 
and everyone knows you for it? 

1027
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,560
Yeah, well, I now have 12 new 
people to to look into and 

1028
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,120
connect with their families. 
I just learned about my very 

1029
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,600
first European one, which is in 
Amsterdam. 

1030
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,000
So I'm going to see what I can 
learn about this person and 

1031
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,000
global Amsterdam. 
Let's see how the, you know, 

1032
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,280
again, if the family is down to 
be included. 

1033
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,880
And then I would like to do 
either like a thanatology or 

1034
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,800
death doula training. 
I think this first project was 

1035
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,000
very, this cookbook is very born
out of community archives and 

1036
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,680
archiving your personal recipes.
The next one, I think it might 

1037
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,440
be more in like grief work. 
I would actually like to do more

1038
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,640
cemetery preservation classes 
because like the work of folks 

1039
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,560
who are like trained and doing 
upkeep for cemeteries. 

1040
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,600
And LA itself has very well 
preserved cemeteries, but you go

1041
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,280
a little bit more into the 
valley and there's a lot that 

1042
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,600
could use volunteers. 
So I would love to be much more 

1043
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,680
knowledgeable about that of the 
correct tools, you know, the 

1044
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,040
proper procedures, things like 
that, because there's such an 

1045
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:19,840
art form to it. 
Well, thank you for that and 

1046
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,200
thank you so much for your time 
today. 

1047
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,560
I really appreciate it. 
Thank you it. 

1048
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,800
Was a real pleasure. 
So much before we sign them. 

1049
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,560
Do you mind if I ask, do you 
both have are are you a cemetery

1050
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,080
person yourselves? 
Would you both be buried in a 

1051
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,360
cemetery? 
Would you prefer something else?

1052
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,440
Also, you don't have to answer 
that if you're like I'll. 

1053
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,400
Tell you I have a whole plan, 
but John, you go first. 

1054
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,160
All right, I actually have a 
really wacky plan. 

1055
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:50,080
I have a really wacky plan. 
I, I do want a, a marker, I do 

1056
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,120
want a headstone, but I don't 
want to be buried. 

1057
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,640
I want to be my ashes condensed 
into a diamond. 

1058
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,440
And I want that diamond to be 
given to my children. 

1059
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,920
And I want one piece of the 
diamond to be etched into the 

1060
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,880
headstone. 
That's that's that's that's what

1061
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,480
I want so. 
Mine's a little different, so my

1062
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:18,000
wife knows that when I'm dead 
first, but I want to be poked 

1063
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,880
with a stick every hour to make 
sure I'm dead for three days 

1064
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,680
because as the lore goes, and 
that it's usually three days 

1065
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,480
when someone rises, they wake 
up. 

1066
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,520
So just to make sure I'm dead 
dead, I don't want to be. 

1067
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,440
That's that's correct exactly 
then. 

1068
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,920
I'm to be. 
Cremated I I want to be cremated

1069
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,560
for sure because I don't want to
be in a box just in case. 

1070
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,200
Even after three days I wake up.
Oh God, yeah. 

1071
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,680
So I'm just convinced that like 
it's that kind of thing is, is 

1072
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,160
the most claustrophobias and 
none of my biggest fear. 

1073
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:55,200
So I'm to be cremated. 
Then those yeah, those ashes are

1074
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:59,080
then I will have a list. 
And then those ashes are to be 

1075
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,720
made into delicious treats to be
fed to my enemies. 

1076
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:08,000
So that is the she she will have
the list of people I don't like.

1077
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,400
And then that is, that's how 
it's going to go down. 

1078
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,560
That's awesome. 
Yeah, which I'll have. 

1079
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,360
Oh my gosh, double time. 
The most unique. 

1080
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,600
I'm so now I'm like, wait, I 
need something. 

1081
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,960
I want to like level up like 
that's so good. 

1082
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,840
Jazz is a little more romantic. 
Mine's a little vengeance bill, 

1083
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:28,360
but it's. 
Fine. 

1084
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,280
Both are fun but I'm not going 
to care. 

1085
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,000
I have seen the My favorite 
thing I've ever seen is the 

1086
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,480
stuff online where the the guy 
had and I don't know if it's a 

1087
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,760
prank or not but it looked like 
it was legit where while he was 

1088
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,840
being lowered the the the 
everybody's probably seen this 

1089
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,920
where the. 
Oh yeah, the he's calling out. 

1090
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:47,560
Wait. 
Stop. 

1091
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,320
He's calling out like, wait, 
don't do it. 

1092
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:54,040
I thought that guy's like one of
my heroes, you know what I mean?

1093
00:54:54,040 --> 00:55:00,040
Like to do that any sort of 
death joy, like that's why I 

1094
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,840
like second line in New Orleans.
You know how to do the parades 

1095
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:07,400
for for that for you know, I do 
find that to be most, you know, 

1096
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,440
to be the really just clever and
fun and enjoy it. 

1097
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,920
And that'd be so dark and and 
everything else. 

1098
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,320
I don't have the with him. 
You think about it and you get I

1099
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,480
don't smile. 
And at a funeral, you know 

1100
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,160
something's happening, so. 
Well, so I'm, I'm just wildly 

1101
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,640
uncomfortable with it, with 
grief and sadness. 

1102
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,280
I have to make a joke. 
And it's very gallows humor. 

1103
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,320
It's like, I can't, you know, So
I want it to be a little bit 

1104
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:34,800
more. 
I also I also I have no problem 

1105
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,000
processing grief until the 
person is old. 

1106
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:43,040
If someone dies in their 90s and
then everyone's like sobbing and

1107
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,440
crying, I, I I'm confused. 
That confuses me. 

1108
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,720
It's like wait a minute, 
shouldn't be celebrating this 

1109
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,760
person's life. 
This person lived till 90. 

1110
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,280
There's some people that don't 
even make it into their 40s, you

1111
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,680
know, like when they hit a don't
like, like wait a second. 

1112
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,120
There's a lot of people I wish 
didn't make it into their 40s. 

1113
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,120
Yeah, right. 
That's the difference. 

1114
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:03,680
You know what I mean? 
Sometimes it's like COVID. 

1115
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,120
Colt. 
Listen, I'm a firm believer 

1116
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,600
COVID did not deliver on the 
promise that it was. 

1117
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,800
Too many people were still here 
that shouldn't have made it. 

1118
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,160
And they, it's like it hurt a 
little bit. 

1119
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,720
I say it all the time, Thanos 
was right. 

1120
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,920
I say all the time, Anos was 
right sometimes. 

1121
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,520
As long as we get their treats 
and they get their recipes 

1122
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,600
before they go if they're any 
good, which is the benefit of 

1123
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:31,640
this. 
I mean, listen, as somebody that

1124
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,520
loves cemeteries, Rosie, I can't
tell you enough how awesome it 

1125
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,920
is that you, you know, put all 
this together, all the research,

1126
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,520
the time, the traveling. 
I mean, it's so cool. 

1127
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,440
And it's such a like, I mean, 
like we were talking about it. 

1128
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:51,520
It's there's not many headstones
that have recipes on them. 

1129
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,760
So the fact that it's wild. 
Though the whole thing. 

1130
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,520
Yeah, the whole thing, I, it 
blows my mind. 

1131
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,680
I think it's wild and I love it.
You know, it's funny, you know 

1132
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,600
what turn, you know, turn me on 
to Rosie actually, as your 

1133
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:04,280
mother, my sister. 
She she she sent me like this is

1134
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,640
a while ago and I I DMD you a 
while ago, but you were probably

1135
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,720
in the thick of you're in the 
thick of promo. 

1136
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:11,680
Oh. 
I'm so sorry. 

1137
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,240
And then no, no, don't, don't 
apologize. 

1138
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:17,480
I was like, she shot it to me 
and I, I literally when she sent

1139
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:22,280
it to me, I was it is one of 
those ideas and I'm not blowing 

1140
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:28,200
smoke where it's this is so 
genius that you did this and I 

1141
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:29,480
knew your best. 
And then I just reached out to 

1142
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,080
you recently again. 
I'm like, I got to try again. 

1143
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,760
And then you're probably coming 
down off of a little bit. 

1144
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,960
So it's like, yes, and I wanted 
to get this in because I want to

1145
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:40,960
do this and we're going to drop 
this the week of Thanksgiving 

1146
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,200
and do it. 
But it is you're the, you truly 

1147
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:50,640
are the only other person I have
met or I've seen that does 

1148
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,120
something as unique in a, has 
done something as unique in a, 

1149
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,320
in a cemetery relation as what 
John does. 

1150
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,520
John's really the first person 
I've ever seen online cleaning 

1151
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,080
headstones and he's talking to 
spirits while he does it. 

1152
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,640
What you've done to somewhat 
communicate with spirits is an 

1153
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,320
absolute or the, or the people 
who've passed is truly 

1154
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,840
fascinating. 
And it and it is a wonderful way

1155
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,920
to do it to keep that spirit 
alive. 

1156
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,960
You know, and we appreciate you 
and we appreciate your time very

1157
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:18,880
much. 
And it's a really fun adventure.

1158
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,160
We wish you nothing but success 
for this and we appreciate you 

1159
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:25,040
coming on this point of spirits 
and and talking about this with 

1160
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:25,720
us. 
And. 

1161
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,000
The same thing with your next 
venture. 

1162
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,680
The next thing you do, let us 
know. 

1163
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,160
We'd love to have you back on 
and talk about it once you know 

1164
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:34,240
every. 
Oh, John's going to start 

1165
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,760
looking online for cemetery 
restoration classes. 

1166
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,800
I can't believe you haven't. 
I mean, that is. 

1167
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,920
I didn't even know such a thing.
As existed, such things exist. 

1168
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,280
It's just when it comes to 
headstone cleaning, it's just 

1169
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,680
insane. 
Like you get like so many people

1170
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,880
that are like diehards about it,
that are like, if you don't do 

1171
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:55,840
it this way, it's wrong. 
And listen, I, I turn around and

1172
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,760
my whole thing to them is, yo, 
what I can do with a drop of 

1173
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:03,080
dawn and some light scrubbing 
will outlast any of your 

1174
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,560
techniques. 
I still visit headstones still 

1175
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:10,240
to this day visit headstones 
that I cleaned years ago that 

1176
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,000
look brand new. 
And we're not talking about 

1177
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,360
granite ones. 
We're talking about limestone. 

1178
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,880
And the only headstones I don't 
touch, the only headstones I 

1179
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:24,080
don't touch are the the red 
sleeve, the slate stone ones. 

1180
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,520
I just stay away from them. 
If I ever do have to clean one, 

1181
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,800
that's when I'll use like a 
biological solution that I can 

1182
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,600
go every couple weeks and spray 
on and walk away from. 

1183
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,400
I stay away from those crumble 
those are. 

1184
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,880
And John's selling himself short
too, because he just, he did a 

1185
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,520
cemetery a couple years ago 
called the Brown Cemetery in our

1186
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,080
town that was like a really 
forgotten predominantly African 

1187
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:51,160
American cemetery that he went 
out about and really sort of 

1188
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,080
cleaned up the whole thing. 
And we're going to tell that 

1189
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,120
story soon on this. 
But he really was tried to 

1190
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:57,760
really try to restore that 
thing. 

1191
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:01,240
And many people have like every 
20 years somebody goes in and 

1192
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:02,880
does it. 
And he was one of those people 

1193
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,440
that that really brought in and 
kept it clean because no one 

1194
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:06,600
gives a shit about it. 
And it's. 

1195
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,440
It's kind of sad. 
That is true. 

1196
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,840
I did, I did do that. 
And but what I what I'm doing 

1197
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:12,440
differently that nobody else 
did. 

1198
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,880
Every 20 years somebody comes in
and does it is I'm keeping up 

1199
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,480
with it. 
Most people come in for like a 

1200
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,800
like a project or something and 
then they, they walk away. 

1201
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,160
Another 20 years goes by, the 
place just falls into, you know,

1202
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,040
neglect again. 
And you've seen what that's like

1203
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,640
with cemeteries when they get 
neglected, they, they look, I 

1204
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,680
mean, sure, it's spooky, it's 
cool, but it's sad at the same 

1205
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:37,560
time. 
And we're losing history. 

1206
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:41,520
We're losing a micro history. 
And yeah, so I went in, Yeah. 

1207
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,760
I fixed the place up and I keep 
up with it. 

1208
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,800
I go in there once a month now 
and just, you know, take care of

1209
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,080
the grounds and you know all 
that. 

1210
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,400
Couple of Taffies talking about 
couple of taffies. 

1211
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:58,000
Half of files. 
I love it. 

1212
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,360
All right, Rosie, we're going to
let you go. 

1213
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,160
We're going to let you go. 
Thank you so much. 

1214
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,560
This was awesome. 
I'm so grateful to you both. 

1215
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,000
Thank you. 
We're grateful to be on. 

1216
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,880
I mean, you coming on, this is 
awesome. 

1217
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,240
I love this entire thing. 
You are incredible. 

1218
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:15,640
Thank you so much. 
And yeah, yeah, so cool. 

1219
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,440
Well, that's it for another 
episode of Splintered Spirits. 

1220
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,280
Be sure to like, share, and 
subscribe to our YouTube 

1221
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,480
channel, Spotify, or wherever 
you get your podcasts. 

1222
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,920
Until next time, stay curious.