Guys, I had to go to the I had to run my dog to the vet this
morning and he my dog has Addison's, which like JFK has
it, you know what I mean? And it has to get a shot once a
month. But I so I grab, I grab a giant
coffee, right? That's the kind of what I do.
But then my wife comes home and she brought me another coffee.
So it's like now guys, I'm on, I'm on turbo.
Are you ready? Let's go, let's go.
Welcome to Splintered Spirits Podcast hosted by me, Gary and
my nephew John Santa from Santa Paranormal, where I follow
Johnny as he tries to prove his theory that ghosts are the
fractured memories of the living.
Today we're talking about a different kind of haunting, the
way a recipe can keep somebody alive long after they're gone.
Our guest is food folklorist and archivist Rosie Grant, the
creator behind the viral project Ghostly Archive on TikTok and
Instagram. While she was getting her degree
in library science and interning at Congressional Cemetery, Rosie
discovered something unusual. Gravestones engraved with full
recipes. Instead of Bible verses or
solemn epitaphs, these headstones were carved with
instructions for spritz cookies, tea, biscuits and casseroles.
She started tracking them down, baking each dish and then
bringing the finished food back to the graves to share a bite
with the person who inspired it. That journey became her first
book to die for, A Cookbook of Gravestone Recipes, a collection
of recipes and family stories from cemeteries across the US
and beyond that explores how food, memory, and mourning all
collide. We're going to talk about why
families choose to etch recipes into stone, that connection
between the living and the dead through food, and how cooking
can be its own kind of spirit communication, especially for
people who don't think of themselves as paranormal at all.
Let's dive into the conversation.
So it's just that you're you're diving in early here for this.
Rosie, thank you so much for being here.
I got to tell you, you are the first person that I've come
across that has a love for cemeteries as much as my nephew
here and such a unique way of how you show that love with your
book to Die for, which we're going to get into.
Absolutely. That's why you're here.
And I learned a new word which which was well, I think I
learned a new word and I just lost it a Taff.
A taffophile? Yeah, people who love cemeteries
and gravestones. So you guys are a couple
taffies, I guess that's what it is.
Both taffies. Both taffies.
So Rosie, I I got to find out how you became 1.
You know, so it's like, how did you so you grew up around ghost
tours and cemeteries, right? And this is because of your
parents. Yeah, I, I mean, maybe John, I'm
curious for you as well what your kind of origin and
cemeteries were. But I, I grew up near a
graveyard that I would walk through from, you know, it was
like my shortcut through high school and to get back home on
my walk home. Where was this?
This was in Alexandria, VA, which had some really cool old
cemeteries. And yes, my parents are now both
ghost tour guides, so we would go on cemetery tours and ghost
tours all throughout my childhood.
And so cemeteries are just so rad.
And it's so fun to see how each one is so different and they're
all, you know, such a marker of each place and location.
But I don't think I really knew a lot of the, like, behind the
scenes work, how much work it is to do the upkeep for a cemetery
until I interned in one. And that was 2021.
So that was my sort of like more lift into this area.
And I have such a strong appreciation for people who do
gravestone cleaning and preservation work because it's
truly such a labor of love. That's a.
That's a long time between being what was that?
What was it? What the world look like through
your eyes of, you know, younger you walking through cemeteries
to walk home and and being around ghosts and or your
parents? Is there a belief in it?
You know, how did that play up to your What was Halloween like?
Oh man, Halloween's awesome. It's always been the Grants
favorite holiday and, you know, I'm Irish Catholic, which has so
many good ghost stories and spooky stories that the family
would just tell. But then even for the cemetery
side themselves, I think it gave me this just, you know,
appreciation for history and how each gravestone tells a story.
And yeah, I think younger me wasn't super surprised that
older me just wrote a book about cemeteries, particularly a
cookbook, because I love food as well.
So honestly, I feel like the the Gravestone Recipe cookbook is
such a combination of my family gathering around the table and
telling stories, whether on Halloween or otherwise.
Amazing. So from you were trained as an
archivist, right? And then you wanted to be a a
librarian? I, I, I have never met anybody
who was who wanted to be a librarian.
What is that? Is that just?
Because of the love one other person.
So this is actually pretty wild. So yeah, what was?
Your I, I'm so curious, like what that's a real, like are you
data-driven or what is that drive to, to go down that road
do? You like to smell bold books.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, no A.
Lot of people, yeah. Right are do you all have big
library folks? Especially if you're in Los
Angeles with some of the best libraries.
My daughter is a giant bookworm, you know, so she loves old
bookstores. I wouldn't say she frequents
libraries too much, but she loves a good mom and pop sort of
classic bookstore. She loves going in those.
That's her. That's her favorite thing.
But for you, like, how did that? What was it like?
That's a lot like to reclusive nature.
Like what is it about being an archivist and a librarian?
And I have a point to all these questions by the way.
But I don't know. I love this.
This is it's a great question. Well, so I was working at a
museum pre going into library science and I should say I was
an English major. I always loved libraries.
My uncle who was a spooky Halloween loving guy, he's my
godfather as well as my dad's younger brother, also a
librarian. And so I think when I was a kid,
I was also very inspired. My favorite movies, The Mummy.
And when you know Rachel Weisz's characters, like I'm a librarian
and actually technically she's more of an archivist because
she's very into like the objects and the preservation.
Rosie, that might be the nerdiest thing you're going to
say today, right? Right.
To point out, excuse me, you are not a librarian.
You are an archimist. Might be.
Yeah, absolutely, I wrote. You know, I mean, we all have
these things. Exactly.
And I mean, even I saw that movie and I was like, golly, I
want to be a librarian too someday.
What's what's so wild to think about that that whole thing is
the fact that there are items right now that have been
archived that we still don't know where they come from.
We don't have the exact origins. And we're still finding new
things about these items. Like you see, like articles all
the time. Like, you know, like, hey, you
know, this was in an archive for 50-60 years and we just figured
out what this was, you know? So that's pretty cool.
Yeah, maybe we all want. Amiana Jones in Somerset in some
sense, you know, but but she didn't do it.
But yeah, right. He was, he was he was the
professor as opposed to the adventurer.
So you went down the Librarian Rd.?
No, it's it's. Through the size of the same
coin. And it's because of the
archivist. So I think even working in the
museum, the archivist job is to, they're less on the curator side
or the professor or the historian.
They're really around to make sure the objects are in the best
condition to have for the few people in the future.
So yeah, that could be like, we don't know what this is.
They're going to try to take care of the object as best as we
can until we learn more. New histories are always coming
out. New contexts are always being
added to objects. And I was very inspired by
community archives, which a lot of cemeteries fall under this of
like, you know, we have like institutional archives of like
land records and management and ownership of property and things
like that. And community archives is more
like every community has a story.
A lot of, again, the cemetery preservation work, which can go
into land ownership, you know, people buy a plot, but also that
goes into the stories of like who are these people that
history might have forgotten? So it's gets to be the arc of
his job to uncover that, to protect that story and to help
people in the future learn it. So I was very inspired by all of
that. And also, I mean, yeah, as early
days of the pandemic, I was so inspired by like, like, all of
my classmates in library science school were just librarians.
They were already librarians, and they just wanted to be more
helpful. They were like, putting
themselves through school, paying for a master's degree
because they're like, how do I be a better librarian than I
already AM? And in my mind, I'm like, you're
already be helping everybody like I have.
So many, I have so many questions about library science
that but this is not the place. But we'll have to talk another
time. Like just because I I do find
it, it's just something I know nothing about.
So you're studying for this. You get an internship at the
Congressional cemetery. It's just all about the same
time, like you're a student and. I'm a student at the time, yeah.
Now, what did you expect that job to be like?
And what surprised you the most? What is?
What is interning at the Congressional Cemetery even
mean? It's such a good question.
I felt so. I mean, it was such a fortuitous
time because, yeah, a lot of libraries and archives were
closed during, you know, early quarantine days.
So I couldn't have gotten the same experience.
But yeah, cemeteries were unfortunately in some cases
busier than ever. And so I interned.
Yeah, as it goes, I interned in the that the archives of
Congressional, which is one of Washington, DC's oldest
cemeteries, and I basically was documenting the graves Jones.
And we were putting this sort of like online exhibition around
their residents who are more famous of like they have some
very famous activists and of course politicians that have
gone through DC. They have some really unusual
cenotaphs and you know, other parts of the cemetery too.
They have an apiary, they have history tours, they have a book
club, they have a death doula. And it's very much a place
that's trying to connect to the community and tell these
stories. And so I was a part of that
work. It was awesome.
I got to go to all of their events and they do movie nights
and they do this one called Soul Strolls where it's like during
the prohibition days in DC, they had a lot of characters.
So they retell all the character stories and then you end at a
Speakeasy at the end of the cemetery and it's just, it's a
delightful, just a delightful place in general.
It's like Hollywood forever out here that has all the events
like that, right? Exactly.
So I think Hollywood Forever, honestly, has been very
inspirational to a lot of other cemeteries.
And obviously some people, that's not for them.
They don't want to be buried in a place that's like, so for the
living, you know, it's nice that we have options.
But personally, I loved how welcoming they were to the
community. Congressional was a derelict
cemetery even in the 90s. And then the local community
came together and it actually was these random dog walkers in
the neighborhood who started this sort of association.
And now you pay an annual fee and that goes to the
preservation and you can walk your dog in the cemetery.
And it's a two year waiting list to try to be in this membership
group, which basically just goes to the upkeep of the cemetery.
So not for everyone, but a really interesting model.
Everything else. I could see, I could see John
like loving this every second of.
This well, because listen, you know, other than Hollywood
forever, not many cemeteries do what she's speaking about.
Even even even still, a lot of cemeteries are very recluse.
I mean, even take the famous Sleepy Hollow Cemetery.
Sure, they do tours this, that and the other, but they are
super strict on who's walking around and who's doing what.
So, yeah, no, I, I love hearing about all this because I love
the old Victorian ways of cemeteries where people went and
picnicked and, you know, brought their kids and it was more like
a park, you know, setting. So I'm, I'm all for that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm I'm enjoying this.
So when you say, when you say Rosie, you were documenting the
graves there, what does that mean exactly?
Is this what is that like where it is?
Yeah, where it is, Congressional actually has an app, but we
also, I mean, I think every cemetery does it a little bit
differently. But when you take a photo, that
helps with the Geo coordinates of something if you have
locations turned on. And so you can later get the Geo
coordinates for where a person is.
And if you take that photo over the gravestone, they're
obviously way fancier devices doing that.
But like taking a photo on your phone has a marker of what the
location is. And so we would use those Geo
coordinates for each of the stones.
I should say our cemetery wasn't that big.
I mean, compared to like, you know, these beautiful rural
cemeteries that you were talking about, John, that had the
picnicking, a Greenwood cemetery, a Mount Auburn, places
like that. But even for ours, it's big
enough that like, if someone wanted to go find, for instance,
Leonard Matlovitch, she was a very famous gay rights activist,
you would be able to actually find the coordinates of his
grave and then a little story for him.
And you know, some of these will just be used in like brochures.
So people can pick up a free brochure.
They can walk around the cemetery and find each person.
I think we're getting into more QR codes.
This is since I've left. But my understanding is there's
now these little things. So as you're walking around and
you're like, oh, what a cool grave.
Who is this person if the family exactly?
And you can learn like a little bit about each person.
There's got to be somebody. Somebody's got to be out there
that's got AQR code engraved on their headstone.
Oh, there's a bunch of it. And then when you do it, you get
Rick rolled. Well, well, there's not like,
it's not like they're not engraved, but there's like I, I
visited cemeteries where you see QR codes stuck on, stuck on the
headstone and you scan it and it brings up like, there's couple
different companies now that do it and, but they don't last,
unfortunately, what weather they end up getting weathered and,
and, and whatnot. But the documentation part is so
cool because, you know, let's be real, anything can happen in a
cemetery. If it's got trees, branches can
fall, trees can fall over, stones can get pulverized.
Somebody drunk and go running through a cemetery and run over
headstones and to be it happens. You know, on my live, I caught
somebody going off an embankment and plowing over a couple of
headstones. These things happen.
So taking those pictures and having that original picture
with the Geo coordinates is like super helpful, especially for
restoration purposes. That's wild.
All right, so Rosie, take us back to the first time you
actually saw a recipe on a gravestone.
Well, the very first time. So I, I should say this was also
part of my, my program. I was in a class that was like,
how does social media work? And I think the idea is like a
lot of libraries have to be on social media for advocacy
reasons and of course, educational teaching people
about their programs and free resources.
And so it was just like sort of a one-on-one, but we had to
start an account from scratch on a topic.
And my professor, this was at the same time I was in the
cemetery internship. So she was like, why don't you
make your make a TikTok about what it's like to intern at a
cemetery? So I was featuring different
memorials and gravestones and sort of like things that I was
learning because I found it all very new.
I didn't know that people had QR codes.
I didn't know that people that didn't say jokes or unusual,
like if you have dogs that you like, you could put your statue
of your dog with your grave. Like anything could go on to a
gravestone technically within reason.
And so you know what I mean? Like, it was really cool.
So I was first featuring other Washington, DC based places and
cemeteries, and then I moved on to just other interesting graves
that I learned about in general. And that's how I learned about a
woman named Naomi Odessa Miller Dawson, who's at Greenwood
Cemetery, one of these sort of Victorian era rural cemeteries
that people would picnic. Greenwood in Brooklyn.
In Brooklyn, not Poland. Is is is that is that the one
that has the is it the no bake no the Dale and and the Dale
bread recipe is that that one? So the the Dayton Nut Bread 1 is
just a little bit north of New York City in Highland Mill.
The one that's the. Only one I know that's close to
me. Oh, no way.
That's awesome. That one is real good.
Connie's. Yeah.
No, that's a really, again, very close to New York.
And I actually visited the two women the same day when I first
went up. Beautiful area.
Oh my gosh, that's such a beautiful area.
And yeah, Naomi is the one with the spritz cookie recipe, so she
was the very first one I learned about.
There's this website called Atlas Obscura that has just,
like, off the beaten path things that I loved reading through or
submitting to and sort of like, you can pull up a map of, like
where you are, lots of cemetery stories, lots of gravestones
featured. And it's, yeah, crowdsourced but
very well curated. And I was just like obsessed
with this idea of like, someone put a recipe on their
gravestone. It is genius, not only that it
but but and then for you to recognize that and it is be I
mean, look, I'm ATV producer, right?
That's kind of what my background is in development and
like, and I'm sure 100 people have said that this would be ATV
show, which you should just do it yourself and make fortune
covering it, But it's like it is anyway, sorry, I'm interrupting
you, but the fact that you saw it, capitalized on it and like,
Oh my God, did other people do this And you recognize it right
away. Something unique is, you know,
testament to yourself. So you see this, you find this
thing in an Atlas obscure. You, you go there to really see
it one-on-one, and then you what?
Go for it. I think this was in the
beginning. So I mean, basically it was just
like I was posting every single day because that was the
requirement for the class. So I was just featuring a
different person. So I think I didn't even
recognize this like greater power particularly.
I didn't know there were other people that had this.
I just thought like it was basically like a Tuesday feature
where I was like, wow, someone did this and like, what do these
cookies taste like? So I posted the process on
TikTok and all these comments came in where I was very struck
by like, you know, a lot of people were commenting things
like, wow, that's so cool. What I put on my gravestone and
like engaging with this topic, which I thought was interesting.
But even more so I was getting comments from people being like,
you know, my mom passed away recently.
I still make her recipe when I miss her.
And I was just this really deeply personal story after
story, private messages of people just talking about them
losing someone and how they were using food to remember them.
And they have still have their recipe or they wish they had
their recipe. And so my brother lives in
Brooklyn and I have a lot of family in Brooklyn.
So my mom and I had driven up just to go to the area.
And we were like, well, why don't we visit Naomi while we
were there? And I was thinking of what I
hadn't met with her family yet at that point.
Again, very well featured on the Internet.
But I was wondering what flowers that I should bring to her are,
like what her favorite flowers might have been.
And then I thought, well, you know, she has this cookie
recipe. I should bring her cookies.
So that's why I brought Naomi's cookies.
And that kind of just started it off of like, my mom and I had a
cookie tasting right next to her.
And it felt very much in the old Victorian tradition of
picnicking with lost loved ones at a cemetery.
And it felt really, really right.
It's just there's something about it.
And like, And so then going on to Connie, who you're near,
Connie is a little bit north of New York City and she has a date
and nut bread. And I was like, well, if I'm
visiting Naomi, I should visit Connie.
And after that, I just started researching more folks and more
people. So the first eight or so recipes
and people I found on the Internet, they were featured in
news and blogs and podcasts. And then after that, families
themselves started reaching out, which just kind of changed the
entire project for me. Did you get way in this class?
Which wild is, is is I can only, I can only really think that
they're they're, I mean, how many people actually put a
recipe on a headstone? It has to be less than, if I had
to take a guess, 200. And then how many of them are
weathered where you can't even tell.
It looks like any other random, you know, encryption on a stone.
So I I so my question is, how many were you able to find, not
just on your own, but with people reaching out to you?
Yeah, they've all been crowdsourced to this date.
I know of 52 around the world, mostly in the US And yeah, it is
such a good point of the weather element.
I mean, these are public outdoor memorials.
So you know, there's one in Nome, Alaska that the lettering
this was a pretty easy fix and we're actually figuring out how
to get the materials up to this family because it's easier to do
a DIY fix rather than fly someone up there knows hard to
get to. But you know how like that has
some lettering that's been engraved.
There's this like white sort of paint.
I'm sure there's a more professional word, but you can
basically do the the re inscription because the
engraving is still there. It's still a new enough
gravestone. There's another woman in Maine,
though, her grave shown faces up.
It's a flatbed memorial and that one is dealt with a lot of
lichen and the external elements.
And so the families talked about having to clean that quite
regularly in order to like still be able to see the recipe.
So it's so true, Like, and I should also say I benefited from
none of these grave shins are that old.
They're all in the, you know, twentyish years, pretty much
granite made. So they'll they'll last a decent
amount, but they won't. Last for free Granite cleans up
pretty easy too. And.
All the headstones, granite cleans up pretty easy.
Oh yes, 52. That's insane.
Now, let me ask you a question. Do you think that there are any
older ones? Do you think that maybe somebody
in the, you know, 1800s or early 1900s thought, you know what?
I want my recipe on my headstone.
This is me. This is what defines me.
Do you think you'll ever find one of those?
I would love that so much. I'm not sure if it would happen
in North America. And from my understanding, and
you might even know a little bit more about this, I took a
history of the American cemetery class.
So this is where this is like very basically based on, you
know, in the olden days, cemeteries were, or I should say
graveyards had like, you know, first wood and then of course,
that would disintegrate if they were marked at all.
And then we moved on to marble and a lot of the stones were
done by this family, I think around Boston, and so they would
mask are of a bunch and then ship them all out.
So for the most that's why so many of these lots of memento
Mori and like the very classic and you would just add Nate's
birth dates, the basics. Now, that being said, I could
totally like I was looking over like, what is the history of
like leaving behind recipes? And there are like, you know,
ancient Egyptian paves and pyramid adjacent types, things
that a recipe would be left behind as far as like a death
practice. So I wonder if I go a little bit
more cross culturally, I might get something older because that
would be so rad. I would love that.
Yeah, that'd be very cool, wouldn't it?
Wow. One day.
One day, right? One day.
Hey, listen, you never know. Yeah.
Did you get an? Did you get an A in this class?
I hope. Did you get an A in this class?
Yeah. Could you imagine, could you
imagine if you didn't get the A? It's got to be a little bit.
I mean, it's like, are you serious?
I would, I would send that teacher.
I would have sent that teacher your book, you know.
I'd blast that teacher. I'd blast that teacher once a
month on my social media. Yeah.
Hey. Oh my God.
Did you imagine? Yeah.
Day 156. I'm telling this professor, you
know, you only gave me a pay. It's crazy, Rosie.
You know, you got a, you got a couple 100,000 followers now.
I mean, obviously this thing is blown up and have you gotten
any, I mean, even John gets this quite a bit.
How has the reaction been? I mean, have you gotten some
negative reaction to it too? Where it's like, come on, you
know? You're just, you shouldn't be
there. You did that.
Yeah. How do you handle?
How do you manage that I? Think how do you manage
honestly? And, and John, you made me feel
the same because the idea I would love if like the
association of gravestone studies, which is this like
gravestone conference and and membership group that they
engage with a lot of these topics.
That's a lot of cemetery workers.
But I think more and more so it's a lot of cemetery
preservation workers and educators and yes, Tik Tokers
and social media folks fall under that.
And I definitely think that like they're having like a camera and
documenting in a cemetery has a lot of pros and cons to it.
And, you know, we've seen people do things in cemeteries that are
against all the cemetery rules. Like most cemeteries have the
rules and printed out their gates of like, you can do this,
you can't do this. Don't be here in the middle of
the night, you know, don't play around with the gravestones.
Don't be disrespectful. Don't.
Artificial flowers? No.
You know, things like that. And then don't leave food
behind. So that is a common, I do get
frequently of like, yeah. And people are like, oh, you
should leave the cookies for them.
And I'm like, well, I've worked in a cemetery.
I know who has to clean that up and usually just attracts
animals. But, you know, if nothing else,
I, I look at any of the negative comments as people are on some
level engaging with this topic because I do think death is very
taboo. Cemetery etiquette isn't
necessarily taught to people of like, you know, you can most
cemeteries, if anything, should be welcoming to people as long
as you follow the rules, you're respectful, you know, you go
through and read the names. And this is very much based out
of the archive side of the idea that a lot of archives are
really struggling because the community around them doesn't
care. And eventually, if the community
doesn't care, including if they don't care about the cemetery,
it becomes derelict if they're very expensive to maintain.
And then eventually, like, you know, I'm from the DC area.
We have had so many cemeteries bulldoze turned into parking
lots and shopping malls. And it's the life of the
cemetery depends on the local community connecting to it.
So while I can totally understand and people are, you
know, engaging with death in their own way.
So maybe they'll never be comfortable enough to walk into
a cemetery themselves, at least like I would like to think, you
know, them watching John respectfully cleaning
gravestones with the permission of the cemetery.
You're following on the rules. You're talking with them.
And it's a celebration of these people.
I do think that gets people one step closer to something that
there's maybe a little uncomfortable to think about.
And also it sets like guidelines of like there are ways to
ethically be in a cemetery, engage with the cemetery, be
welcomed by the cemetery. So I think it's just you can,
there's a healthy model out there basically, you know.
You know, you're, you're 100% correct.
And what I tell people, because I get this all the time, I say
something that kind of throws people back.
The first thing I say is cemeteries are a waste of space
unless you're visiting them. These headstones are here as a
testament to the micro history of the people that lived here.
And if you're not there visiting them that the cemetery is a
waste of space, then there's no point for that cemetery.
So why shy away from going and visiting a place, honoring that
place, You know, soaking in the micro history, the people that
live there, connecting with the the culture in the community
that was there before you were, you know, it's, it's pretty
crazy. You know, so Rose, you know,
John sets boundaries for himself, right?
Personal ones. He tries to avoid newer graves
because of what he's doing with the spirit box and you know,
he's going to these there's a lot of places obviously from
civil or Revolutionary War in his area that he sticks to,
right? What have you ever what personal
boundaries did you set for yourself when you went about
this process? Because you're in these are
newer graves, family's still alive and you're doing it.
So how what, how did you, what was, what were your own rules or
how did you sort of do this? Absolutely, yeah.
And the ethics around this I think again are like it's it is
a little bit based off of like comfort level and then yeah,
engaging with the family in order to feature the family.
And if this was the biggest part with the book too, was I needed
to get permission from the families.
Of course it was the best case scenario if the person's, you
know, daughter or son reached out or their, you know,
brother-in-law or whoever. It's like a connection to the
person reached out being like, Oh my gosh, I thought my mom was
the only one who did this. You should try their recipe.
That's the best case scenario. Certainly the easiest
logistically. Certainly the easiest.
Yeah exactly. And then I get to.
But there was a case of 1 gentleman who he was featured on
the Internet before external to me.
He was just kind of like in the cemetery photos rotation and I
got connected with his sister-in-law.
And his sister-in-law was so excited.
She was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so glad John's being included in
this. This is wonderful.
John never got married and he didn't have any children.
And so eventually I got connected to his brother who was
like next of kin and did, you know, manage to the state and
everything. And his brother was like, you
know, this is a really personal topic.
I would act like, you know, we're grieving.
He didn't die that long ago. We would actually rather him not
be included. You know, other people on the
Internet have already featured him.
But would you mind not posting about him not including him in
the book? And I was like, oh, my gosh.
Of course. So like, they needed to be the
ones to dictate that of like. And like, there's no right or
wrong answer. If they are like, in some of the
cases with the families, they'd be like, let me think about it,
like, check in with me in a year and like, let's see how I feel.
And it'd be like, OK, setting a calendar alert.
I'm going to check in with you in a year.
And then a year later would go by and be like, hey, how are you
feeling about this? So I mean, every family is a
little bit different. And I think in addition to, of
course, like, you know, these are public memorials, but it is
a family that's lost someone and like they are grieving.
And this is like a very personal thing to each one.
So it really had to rely on how each of the families dealt with
it. And yeah, so some of the ones
that I would document them, but they never went beyond being
documented just because I was never able to either meet with
the family, confirm with the family.
So that's why there's only 42 that are featured or excuse me,
40 that are featured and 15, well, I should say no 12:00-ish.
But we're still in the rotation of either I never got permission
from the family or I was never able to contact the family.
Like I'm still looking to reach out to them.
And then as far as just like personal boundaries, I just
generally don't really, if a video does well enough, I don't
read the comments because I'm like once it gets beyond a
certain threshold, everyone's weighing in on the pros and.
Cons Yeah, forget it. I just, I'm like, I'm not going
to put myself through that. I will generally read through
again. People write some really lovely
things. Sometimes people will ask like
details of how to make the recipe or if the families
themselves will comment being like, that's my grandma, which
is really lovely. So.
But beyond that, I generally don't read my comments because
I'm like, I don't need to know, yeah.
There's a lot of crazies in this space.
They're crazy. What's the Internet?
That's how it is. And we're talking about, you
know, like graves and dead people.
It's just like there's people that are just.
Bananas. Yeah, yeah, I've dealt with a
lot of unfortunate mental illness in in this field.
So it's. Yeah, it's crazy.
All right, so let's get into the food just a little bit.
I got to imagine what was a common, what was the common
ingredient? Because, you know, here's the
thing that makes me laugh, right?
Because everyone will say like, oh, my great grandmother's
chocolate chip cookies were the best ever.
And it's like, yeah, man. That's because, like, she
literally used the fat from the goat she just killed.
That stuff's delicious, right? So you know what I mean?
Like was like lard and the biggest ingredient, you know,
like, what is that? What is that secret?
What did you find as the most common, delicious secret
ingredient in all of your recipes?
Definitely lots of shortening ones which you know a lot of
people would probably shy away from.
Quite a few margarine ones. These were post depression era
so very classic like grandma's cookies mix 1,000,000 cookies
uses so much shortening. They are really delicious in the
end some. Of the lard.
Lard, yeah, Lard was being a separate one, so the fats would
probably be the biggest like range of things.
Some people just use butter lard.
There's only one recipe that required lard and that was these
tea biscuit recipes from a Nova Scotia woman.
And I didn't know how to get lard.
Like I was like, where do I even order that?
So some of them, there was one that required guava and I had a
lot of trouble finding guava. She lived in Florida and she
would be able to just pick it from her tree.
But weirdly in California I had so much trouble finding guava.
So things like that. But you know, cookies and cakes
were the biggest generally like wide span recipes that I found.
I think also, like, you know, the recipe can be written pretty
simply so it fits onto an epitaph pretty well.
And they were also a recipe associated with, like, birthdays
and special occasions and holidays, like gathering times
when people would be like, looking forward to this recipe.
So they all hosted this like thing in their house that people
would get excited about. And the recipe was like the
center feature of it. Was there any non baking recipes
found yet? Yes, just a few.
There's a ranch dip of a gentleman in Spokane, WA.
A woman with a cheese dip recipe.
Like a chilled cheese dip. I saw that.
So good that. Sounds so good.
It's so, Oh my gosh, it's outrage.
You eat it with club crackers, it's like, oh, it's so good.
The ranch ship is really good too.
John, who's the the gentleman it belonged to.
It's just so good. And so, yeah, a meatloaf one
where you have bacon on top. There's a casserole in
Wisconsin, so there's enough savory ones to get around to,
luckily. Nice.
What do you think you're? What do you think that which one
was the most surprising to you in terms of not only the recipe
or the story behind it? I think some of the ones just,
that was a nice benefit of traveling to each one.
Again, it started very randomly of like, well, I'm in New York
and then I, I would travel to visit other ones as I was like
going out. Like when I was moving from
Virginia to California because my husband wanted to work out
here. I visited a few people along the
way. There was a woman in Utah and
you know, just a few other folks scattered around the middle of
the country. And then once once I started
interviewing the families to get the stories and I actually had a
book concept starting to come together, I was like, OK, I need
to actually like visit all of them.
And I think with that, with each trip, I learned so much about
each person. Three of the women are still
alive. And so this idea of pre planning
that you can put up your gravestone before you pass away
and take care of all your details.
And then you're you know, you have to wait.
Hold. On Wait a second, three of the
recipes you found on a headstone, there's These women
were still alive. They already set it up.
And they already set all the information and then the only
thing that's left is the date that they that they pass away.
Well, the body. Well, that too the body.
But you'd be surprised how many of these headstones I come
across where they never put that final date in.
Someone passes away, they, you know, they get buried and then
the family. I did not realize that was a
thing. That's a thing that's been going
on for for, I mean, I come. In the 1800s something.
Like that? So when you call, did you know
that when you call and they answer the phone and do you like
freak out or do you know that they're alive when you go?
Well, the first woman who I learned about, she is named
Peggy. She, her gravestone is up in
Arkansas and her husband had passed away.
So basically they were putting up a combined gravestone for the
two of them. So I knew there's another
cemetery writer in the Ozarks area.
She writes about cemeteries in the Ozarks.
And she was like, FYI, there's this woman.
So she was the one who like. So I basically learned about
Peggy, her recipe and her being still alive all at the same
time. And I actually cooked with her.
So I like drove down last summer.
We met up in her kitchen. All of her family was there.
We cooked together. It was so lovely.
And then we brought. All the sheets.
She is still pretty young and cooking, cooking and kicking.
Hopefully she still has a lot of years left on her.
But but you know, at the same time, like her husband had died.
And so I think it was just like, well, we're already paying for
this and all in a lot of cases too that people.
It's so the second woman then I learned about who is in Alabama.
It's a beautiful cemetery and her and her husband are a little
on the older side. And I think they were like, we
just want everything to be taken care of.
So our kids, we a get exactly what we want.
We're in our favorite cemetery, which I believe was running out
of space. It's a very popular cemetery in
Huntsville. And so basically they're like,
we get the space where we want. We get to whatever we want to
put on our gravestone and then our kids don't have to pay for
it or worry about it or worry like what do mom and dad want?
Because they already picked it for them.
And so, and then the third woman I thought I didn't know had was
still alive, but when I went and visited her grave marker and
it's her and her husband have these two twin grave markers in
California and there's no death state on her.
And I was like, wait, what? And then eventually someone was
like, yeah, she still lives in the neighborhood.
I guess it's like my wife had built and put one up for me
bright or something. I like, wait a minute.
It's like, no, no, I'm just getting ready for you.
Getting. Ready for it?
You know what I mean like to worry about it.
I'm not I actually did not know people did that, you know, that
are still like jumping around and you know, that's so you
know, did you? I mean, this is sort of leads
you to this question that did any perspective of you in terms
of of what you knew or thought about grief or family history or
food even change while you put this book together?
Like how do you know how did those?
What was that sort of a connection for you?
Yeah, I think my thoughts on it changed quite a lot during it.
Both of my grandmother's passed away in the process of this
research happening and starting, and I was at both of their
funerals and very much just reflecting on like us gathering
around a table and eating the food that they had once made for
us. And I still want my one
grandmother who passed away I'd lived with throughout college
and she would make all of us have one of 32 grandkids.
She would make every one of us this yellow cake birthday cake
every year and for my mom's siblings.
So she probably. That's her, She's Irish.
There's a lot of. Irish Catholic, Yeah, there's a
lot of. Them for.
Sure, lots of kids. And so she would be making this
cook, this cake every birthday. She must have just always had a
cake coming out of the oven because she was always making it
and it was so special to me and my cousins.
And we were just talking of like, we'll never have grandma's
cake again. My mom was like, it's literally
Duncan Hines box cake. There's like nothing special
about this cake. But for us, like the food, it
just really transformed that experience.
And whenever I eat it still, I still want that every birthday,
I feel like I'm a little kid in her kitchen again.
And food is this really powerful memory tool.
Like you taste this taste and like, you know, it's kind of
like that Ratatouille movie where like the villain at the
end eats the Ratatouille dish and he's suddenly like a little
kid in his mom's kitchen. And I think who does that for
us? So if you're grieving and you
miss your person, you know, if you have their recipe or some
ability to have some of the flavors you had with them.
It felt like my grandmothers were back with me.
And it seems like for a lot of the families, that was an
important part too of like not only their legacy, they were
very like giving people. So what I loved is like, it
wasn't just like she liked baking or he was a good grill
cook or whatever. It was like the tools to let you
continue on their tradition, which I really liked that.
Now, yeah, there's definitely a nostalgia right to food you.
And it does spark, you know, something in everyone in terms
of a memory. Now, you don't have to say which
one. You don't have to be specific,
but is there a recipe that you had that was like, this is kind
of bullshit, Like, you know what I mean?
Like, like, because I've come across that with friends, like
this is my grandmother's this, and she makes this the best.
And then I've eaten it and I'm like, that's not really great.
Like you like you love it because you grew up with it, you
know? But it sucks.
It's a little Gary. Listen, Gary, we're biased
because, you know, our our my great grandmother, your
grandmother would be able to whip up, you know, incredible
meals with basically nothing in her fridge.
So we're very biased. Yeah, we are.
That's true. We're we're both, we have an, we
have an Italian grandmother. So it's like, you know, forget
it. It's it's, it's a little
different when it comes to cooking, but it's, there's
still, we've all been there right where you hear like, oh,
you wait until you try my mom's this, do that.
And then you try it and you're like, your mom kind of sucks.
Yeah. You don't have to tell.
You don't have to tell us, but did you ever come across a
recipe or like this is not that good of a recipe for eternity to
have, I think. It's so funny because I, I
definitely feel like, yeah, it is such a personal thing.
And like, so I genuinely like, I'm a pretty like I'm just like,
I eat everything. I like everything.
Like I, I'm very lucky that I don't have like allergies or
things like that. And so I think while I was doing
this, like, yeah, at the end of the day, like I think it's
interesting that people decided to do this for themselves
regardless of what the recipe is.
I mean, it could literally like my family's recipe is a box
recipe. Like there's no one cares.
We care a lot. And so beginning section of it
was it was meant to be like, for people who are like, wow, this
came from a grave stone. That's so cool.
You know, there's that element to it, too.
But I think the deeper goal was for you to think about your
personal food that. OK, yeah, who doesn't want an
Italian grandma to be cooking for us that all of us would
benefit from? But for some people, it might be
like, you know, like a ham sandwich that your dad made for
you when you were sick and like, that's really important to you.
And like, you know, that might be worth preserving even just
for yourself. And so I have like 21 questions
to document your own food history, which for some people,
it really might not be that complicated of like what they
use or it might be it's no steak tartare or anything.
And I should say none of these gravestone recipes are super
complicated. They're all like.
You know. Yeah, exactly.
There's only so much space there's.
Only so much space and engravings expensive that that
it's and it's a skill and it's a skill.
So, Rosie, I have to ask this, I have to ask this and this is
going to be a multi part question.
In all of your adventures and and and knowledge and learning
when it comes to cemeteries, have you a ever had an
experience at one or B. You mean a paranormal?
Experience. Yeah, yeah.
Paranormal experience or while you were with these families,
you know, making like the the recipes and doing all that, was
there any ever like sort of paranormal experience where even
the family was like, I can't believe this happened?
I love that question. I would definitely say the
entire book itself. So it was maybe about two years
ago, I had learned about maybe about 20 people's recipes, and I
connected with maybe about 10 of the families.
And I was chatting with this lady who eventually become my
book editor. And we were talking about what
we would need to accomplish for the actual book to come out.
And in my mind, I was like, there is no way.
There's just no way. We're never going to find all of
these people. We're not going to find 20 more
recipes and get all the families and get permission and travel to
visit all of them because some of them I didn't know where they
were at that point. They were just photos on the
Internet and no one seemed to know the location or there.
I would get rumors of 1 and I wouldn't be able to track it
down. And so almost on like an every
other week basis, some crazy synchronicity thing would be
happening. Like I was tracking down a woman
who was allegedly buried in California, had been hearing
about this California carrot cake and someone had it there.
This is the woman who actually ends up being still alive.
And the day that I learned about one woman, her like daughter
reached out like separately and she was like, oh, I just heard
about you. And I was like, I literally have
been searching for your mom for years.
And she was like, oh, I was chatting with a friend and I
thought this was and so just like really crazy or like
another family when I was like trying to research them, like
randomly I would get a message from their like great
granddaughter or something like that.
So maybe this is less paranormal, but it is like the
synchronicity that happened is like it was crazy.
Like I, it was so many Hail Mary throws in my mind.
I was like, there is no way I will get in touch with everyone.
I will be able to, like, set up calls, you know, do interviews,
get the blessing, get everyone to review all the stories.
That was an important part. And so it is like, yeah, that's
maybe less exciting. I definitely felt when I would
bring the recipe to each grave, like little things would happen
of, like, it would be raining and a storm would let up right
when I would get to the cemetery and a really beautiful rainbow
would come over. There's another woman has this
thing about white feathers. She would always say, like, if
you see a white feather, that's me.
That's a sign from me from above.
And I just started seeing white feathers all the time afterwards
and just little things like that.
Like I was just like, I don't know, again, like I have my own,
like grow up Catholic and I have my own beliefs.
And I'd like to think of these people with all of our loved
ones living on in some way or another in a good place and
seeing all of these things that just randomly connected.
It's just was like so many tiny synchronicity movements, nothing
ever crazy, nothing ever like, you know, no cooking bowls
moving on their own or anything like that.
But definitely like a lot of presents were felt of that sense
that. Makes perfect sense.
Well, thank you. Do you?
Do you, do you believe in ghosts and spirits?
Things like that. I think I'd like to I think like
I lean on healthy skeptic. I freaking love a ghost show.
I love watching. I love on your channel with just
like talking to people and like hearing like just so much of it.
I love I think like I I the joke is like when you grow up
Catholic or you go to Catholic school is it makes you very like
agnostic questioning afterwards. So of course you know.
Yeah, we did the same with both of us.
Yeah, that's. Why?
We're very much on, right? Exactly like you kind of have to
be. Yeah, it's it's nuts.
What do you think spirits are? I ask all our guests this.
I love that. I think like I love the idea of
the soul having some sort of like actual energy or something
like that. And then that just goes on and
continues on. I mean, for me, I find like the
this project has given me so much like meaning of like
connecting with others and connecting through food and
connecting through the dead that I would love to believe even
maybe less so for myself. But I would love to believe that
all of my loved ones and friends and family and everyone I get to
meet will go on and just like just just go on somewhere,
whatever that means. Yeah, again, energy sounds like
a really boring. So no, that's.
A that's a long line, yeah. Thank you for you'd be
surprised, although a lot of guests have trouble answering
that question. So thank you for that, you know,
forthright with that. They're always afraid.
Every, everyone's afraid to answer it.
They're they, they, they don't want to admit.
It's like we're like, look, man, we're talking about ghosts here.
Like we don't know the. Daddy Shit.
We don't know what they are. It's all right.
There's no this isn't a test. Yeah, exactly.
There's no wrong answer. Right, mind you.
Do you do you have a a recipe of your own?
And will that recipe in the in the far future possibly end up
on a headstone? Yes, I feel like I have to at
this point. And I always like, love
cemeteries. So I'm actually working with
Congressional Cemetery where I interned.
We joked that will I be put in the intern plot like the intern
section to be inferred there eventually.
But my husband and I are buying a double plot there.
And I mean, I, I haven't decided.
I, I, of course, I feel like of course a gravestone recipe.
And if I had to pick one right now would be a clam linguine or
like clam pasta. I really love clam based dishes.
I as a kid, that was like one of my favorite flavors.
And as an adult, since we moved to California, like I love
hosting people and making like homemade pasta.
And you crank it out and you let the noodles dry and then you
throw it all and like get the white wine sauce and the parsley
and the clams cooking and you get to like enjoy the smells of
it and then tasting it all together.
And it's briny. And he's from Maine.
So I felt like the clam has like a nice connection to Maine and
Maine food as well. So that's what I would pick if
it was right now, but maybe, maybe forever.
First of all, Rosie, Rosie, thank you so much for your time
today. I got one more.
I got one more quick question for you, you know, and for
everyone, obviously, this is Rosie Grant her book to die for.
It's a best seller taking these recipes off of headstones and
putting them together. Great name too, by the way.
Great name, you know. It's a great name, it's per
everything, everything about it is absolutely perfect.
It's one of those great ideas. You want to kick yourself for
it. It's just so, it's just so
wonderful. What's.
And you can also find Rosie at Ghostly Archive on social media.
What is next for you? What is next for Ghostly Archive
now that this is out and about and everyone knows you for it?
Yeah, well, I now have 12 new people to to look into and
connect with their families. I just learned about my very
first European one, which is in Amsterdam.
So I'm going to see what I can learn about this person and
global Amsterdam. Let's see how the, you know,
again, if the family is down to be included.
And then I would like to do either like a thanatology or
death doula training. I think this first project was
very, this cookbook is very born out of community archives and
archiving your personal recipes. The next one, I think it might
be more in like grief work. I would actually like to do more
cemetery preservation classes because like the work of folks
who are like trained and doing upkeep for cemeteries.
And LA itself has very well preserved cemeteries, but you go
a little bit more into the valley and there's a lot that
could use volunteers. So I would love to be much more
knowledgeable about that of the correct tools, you know, the
proper procedures, things like that, because there's such an
art form to it. Well, thank you for that and
thank you so much for your time today.
I really appreciate it. Thank you it.
Was a real pleasure. So much before we sign them.
Do you mind if I ask, do you both have are are you a cemetery
person yourselves? Would you both be buried in a
cemetery? Would you prefer something else?
Also, you don't have to answer that if you're like I'll.
Tell you I have a whole plan, but John, you go first.
All right, I actually have a really wacky plan.
I have a really wacky plan. I, I do want a, a marker, I do
want a headstone, but I don't want to be buried.
I want to be my ashes condensed into a diamond.
And I want that diamond to be given to my children.
And I want one piece of the diamond to be etched into the
headstone. That's that's that's that's what
I want so. Mine's a little different, so my
wife knows that when I'm dead first, but I want to be poked
with a stick every hour to make sure I'm dead for three days
because as the lore goes, and that it's usually three days
when someone rises, they wake up.
So just to make sure I'm dead dead, I don't want to be.
That's that's correct exactly then.
I'm to be. Cremated I I want to be cremated
for sure because I don't want to be in a box just in case.
Even after three days I wake up. Oh God, yeah.
So I'm just convinced that like it's that kind of thing is, is
the most claustrophobias and none of my biggest fear.
So I'm to be cremated. Then those yeah, those ashes are
then I will have a list. And then those ashes are to be
made into delicious treats to be fed to my enemies.
So that is the she she will have the list of people I don't like.
And then that is, that's how it's going to go down.
That's awesome. Yeah, which I'll have.
Oh my gosh, double time. The most unique.
I'm so now I'm like, wait, I need something.
I want to like level up like that's so good.
Jazz is a little more romantic. Mine's a little vengeance bill,
but it's. Fine.
Both are fun but I'm not going to care.
I have seen the My favorite thing I've ever seen is the
stuff online where the the guy had and I don't know if it's a
prank or not but it looked like it was legit where while he was
being lowered the the the everybody's probably seen this
where the. Oh yeah, the he's calling out.
Wait. Stop.
He's calling out like, wait, don't do it.
I thought that guy's like one of my heroes, you know what I mean?
Like to do that any sort of death joy, like that's why I
like second line in New Orleans. You know how to do the parades
for for that for you know, I do find that to be most, you know,
to be the really just clever and fun and enjoy it.
And that'd be so dark and and everything else.
I don't have the with him. You think about it and you get I
don't smile. And at a funeral, you know
something's happening, so. Well, so I'm, I'm just wildly
uncomfortable with it, with grief and sadness.
I have to make a joke. And it's very gallows humor.
It's like, I can't, you know, So I want it to be a little bit
more. I also I also I have no problem
processing grief until the person is old.
If someone dies in their 90s and then everyone's like sobbing and
crying, I, I I'm confused. That confuses me.
It's like wait a minute, shouldn't be celebrating this
person's life. This person lived till 90.
There's some people that don't even make it into their 40s, you
know, like when they hit a don't like, like wait a second.
There's a lot of people I wish didn't make it into their 40s.
Yeah, right. That's the difference.
You know what I mean? Sometimes it's like COVID.
Colt. Listen, I'm a firm believer
COVID did not deliver on the promise that it was.
Too many people were still here that shouldn't have made it.
And they, it's like it hurt a little bit.
I say it all the time, Thanos was right.
I say all the time, Anos was right sometimes.
As long as we get their treats and they get their recipes
before they go if they're any good, which is the benefit of
this. I mean, listen, as somebody that
loves cemeteries, Rosie, I can't tell you enough how awesome it
is that you, you know, put all this together, all the research,
the time, the traveling. I mean, it's so cool.
And it's such a like, I mean, like we were talking about it.
It's there's not many headstones that have recipes on them.
So the fact that it's wild. Though the whole thing.
Yeah, the whole thing, I, it blows my mind.
I think it's wild and I love it. You know, it's funny, you know
what turn, you know, turn me on to Rosie actually, as your
mother, my sister. She she she sent me like this is
a while ago and I I DMD you a while ago, but you were probably
in the thick of you're in the thick of promo.
Oh. I'm so sorry.
And then no, no, don't, don't apologize.
I was like, she shot it to me and I, I literally when she sent
it to me, I was it is one of those ideas and I'm not blowing
smoke where it's this is so genius that you did this and I
knew your best. And then I just reached out to
you recently again. I'm like, I got to try again.
And then you're probably coming down off of a little bit.
So it's like, yes, and I wanted to get this in because I want to
do this and we're going to drop this the week of Thanksgiving
and do it. But it is you're the, you truly
are the only other person I have met or I've seen that does
something as unique in a, has done something as unique in a,
in a cemetery relation as what John does.
John's really the first person I've ever seen online cleaning
headstones and he's talking to spirits while he does it.
What you've done to somewhat communicate with spirits is an
absolute or the, or the people who've passed is truly
fascinating. And it and it is a wonderful way
to do it to keep that spirit alive.
You know, and we appreciate you and we appreciate your time very
much. And it's a really fun adventure.
We wish you nothing but success for this and we appreciate you
coming on this point of spirits and and talking about this with
us. And.
The same thing with your next venture.
The next thing you do, let us know.
We'd love to have you back on and talk about it once you know
every. Oh, John's going to start
looking online for cemetery restoration classes.
I can't believe you haven't. I mean, that is.
I didn't even know such a thing. As existed, such things exist.
It's just when it comes to headstone cleaning, it's just
insane. Like you get like so many people
that are like diehards about it, that are like, if you don't do
it this way, it's wrong. And listen, I, I turn around and
my whole thing to them is, yo, what I can do with a drop of
dawn and some light scrubbing will outlast any of your
techniques. I still visit headstones still
to this day visit headstones that I cleaned years ago that
look brand new. And we're not talking about
granite ones. We're talking about limestone.
And the only headstones I don't touch, the only headstones I
don't touch are the the red sleeve, the slate stone ones.
I just stay away from them. If I ever do have to clean one,
that's when I'll use like a biological solution that I can
go every couple weeks and spray on and walk away from.
I stay away from those crumble those are.
And John's selling himself short too, because he just, he did a
cemetery a couple years ago called the Brown Cemetery in our
town that was like a really forgotten predominantly African
American cemetery that he went out about and really sort of
cleaned up the whole thing. And we're going to tell that
story soon on this. But he really was tried to
really try to restore that thing.
And many people have like every 20 years somebody goes in and
does it. And he was one of those people
that that really brought in and kept it clean because no one
gives a shit about it. And it's.
It's kind of sad. That is true.
I did, I did do that. And but what I what I'm doing
differently that nobody else did.
Every 20 years somebody comes in and does it is I'm keeping up
with it. Most people come in for like a
like a project or something and then they, they walk away.
Another 20 years goes by, the place just falls into, you know,
neglect again. And you've seen what that's like
with cemeteries when they get neglected, they, they look, I
mean, sure, it's spooky, it's cool, but it's sad at the same
time. And we're losing history.
We're losing a micro history. And yeah, so I went in, Yeah.
I fixed the place up and I keep up with it.
I go in there once a month now and just, you know, take care of
the grounds and you know all that.
Couple of Taffies talking about couple of taffies.
Half of files. I love it.
All right, Rosie, we're going to let you go.
We're going to let you go. Thank you so much.
This was awesome. I'm so grateful to you both.
Thank you. We're grateful to be on.
I mean, you coming on, this is awesome.
I love this entire thing. You are incredible.
Thank you so much. And yeah, yeah, so cool.
Well, that's it for another episode of Splintered Spirits.
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Until next time, stay curious.