And I said, President Lincoln, I hope you're still with us.
And the spirit box is going And I, I show the picture.
I said, President Lincoln, is this you?
And through the spirit box, you hear this man.
Yes, it is. We can never say with 100%
certainty that's Abraham Lincoln.
You know, we just. Did you ask him what he thought
of the play? Hey everybody, do us a quick
favor and hit follow and smash that like or subscribe button
wherever you're listening right now.
It'll help us keep getting great guests and make it so you don't
miss the next episode. Now I want the show.
All right, all right, John, what's up?
How are? You what it's going on.
I'm good, Gary. I'm good here in Texas.
In a different and in Texas different little backdrop for
you. Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, So in Texas, you know, having a good, well, I can say
this, the first thing I'm going to say about Texas is not
everything is bigger in Texas. Yeah.
We've been lied to them. Oh, why is that?
Because just that things aren't bigger in Texas, you know, like
the deer. You know, I've been seeing deer
all over the place. They ain't bigger, right?
But but but the stars are big and bright.
Oh yeah, that's right, stars are very.
Bright. Are you out in the country and
stuff? Like really, I'm out.
Yeah, I'm out in Hill Country right now.
What's it like going out at night?
Is it like really wild to to be out at night?
Is it bright out 'cause you can the stars make it like brighter
than it? Depends.
If the moon's out. Sure, Right.
It. It's.
I mean, it's really no different.
The weather's strange. Like 50° for me in New York is
not 50° in Texas, OK. Like everyone else is like, oh,
we're cold. And I'm like, oh, this is, you
know, this is. Beautiful.
So, and I guess maybe that's just, you know, personal
preference or humidity or whatever it is, right?
But it's it's different. It's definitely different.
Hill Country, where I'm at right now has been my favorite.
OK, Hill Country. I love nature, lot of nature,
lot of scenery. So.
Good. That's all that's fun, let you
get out. It's good to see you out in the
out in the country, out in America.
Out in America, you know, really enjoying America.
Hello John in America so hey everybody welcome this is
splintered spirits. I'm Gary this is John Santa from
Santa paranormal. As you know, and we are live, we
are like to ask the question what are spirits?
And we like to try to figure out what's going on in the world of
paranormal. And we got a guest today, very
cool, fun one. And it's a good one too 'cause
maybe he can give me a few pointers.
The guy's been around today's guest.
He he's been a broadcaster and an investigator.
He is the host of Ghost Box Radio with Greg Bakken.
And I'm talking about Greg Bakken himself.
He's out of AM/950 in the Twin Cities, reaches 10s of thousands
of listeners each weeknight with deep dive conversations on the
paranormal, UFO phenomena, Bigfoot, all things anomalous,
right? He's a seasoned paranormal
investigator, intuitive ITC specialist.
I want to get into that a bit. He really is into the you know
what you do and recordings and EDPS, right?
Communication, electronic communication.
Greg is best known for his work with Spirit Box and his mission
to bridge the metaphysical and paranormal communities, bringing
together mediums and investigators to validate
communication and promote respectful evidence based
investigations. He also runs Para Friends events
in Ghost Box Live, giving people a chance to investigate haunted
locations. So he does an experiential thing
as well, which is cool. So without further ado, he's
sitting in our waiting room. Let's bring on Greg Bakken from
Ghost Box Radio. Greg, how are you?
I'm doing well. How are you tonight, today,
whenever? Who am I?
I like. I like the beard, dude.
I like that beard. Oh, thanks.
I it's taken like 10 years to grow, but, you know, that's the
slow, slow, slow facial hair growth.
You know, that's kind of what I'm about.
South babyface No. Right on, man.
Well, look, it looks good. It looks distinguished man of
importance. No one, and I repeat, no one has
ever said that before SO. Listen, it's better to look it
than to be it. That's true too.
Greg, listen, thank you so much for coming out today.
You've, you've been doing this for a lot longer than I have,
meeting a lot of different people.
So I'm very excited to talk to you about your experiences, what
you've met, who you've met, what you've learned, right?
Yeah, no, that's great. Let's.
Let's take a step back real quick.
So what was the first experience or moment that convinced you
that the Paranormals was more than just a good story and you
and you had to push it into to becoming a full on investigator
and ITC specialist? I think for me what it what it
came down to was simply adopting using the spirit box.
For longest time it had been basically watching some TV shows
as I think a lot of us started off doing.
And when I was watching it way back in the day, they weren't
even called spirit box. They were called shack hacks.
They're called all sorts of different other things.
And I thought to myself if, if this actually works now I'm
interested. And I ended up I ended up
getting my my own spirit box. I just got the SB-7 and I still
use it to this day. And a friend and I went down to
the basement of where I worked in downtown Minneapolis, which
people say it's a creepy basement.
And they they did no one want to go down there.
And going down there, my first question I ever asked using the
spirit box, I got an answer right away and I'm like, all
right, this is good and funny. Funny enough.
What was the question? What's your name?
And I got Nate just like that. Nate and we asked what's your
last name? And it came out Lund and then I,
I asked what year were you born? And we got some numbers, but I
don't think you could equate it to an answer.
And then I said, was there, is there somebody else here that
could, would like to talk to us? And a female comes through and
she says hello. And at that point, I just like,
this is mine. And I literally was like, this
is this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
I'm supposed to be using this device and I'm supposed to be
reaching out. And, you know, a lot of the
shows at the time was, you know, not like ghost hunters, but
others were kind of provocation and stuff.
And it was at that moment I realized that you're not
speaking with something dark, you're actually speaking with
people. And that's where right away I
kind of became like, OK, I get it.
I understand what I'm supposed to be doing here now.
I now have a purpose. I literally felt that way.
Now have a purpose. That is, it's great that you
recognize that, yeah, you know, like this is something that is
going to change your direction, right?
You know, the, the thing was, is I, I mean, I, I, I wanted to do
this. I was really interested in it.
But after that I started having dreams like every night for
about 6 months. Literally I would have a dream
I'm out in an, a paranormal investigation and it wasn't
scary. Matter of fact, I don't even
call any spirits in the dream. It was just me, the act of going
out and, and this is what I do. And it was every single night I
was having this and I was just like, this is, this is so cool.
It is like I like, I, like I said before, I get it and it
says like now I, I feel like I can, I can, I'm, I'm part of a
puzzle. I'm a piece of a puzzle that
I've now put myself in place. So from that moment on, did you
start to create content directly or did you just keep
investigating? I I, I, So it's an interesting
question, I guess, because I suppose I did start to create
content almost immediately. I think as content creators, I
feel like whatever we do, we feel like we have to document in
some way, you know, and beyond just like getting like Evps and
stuff. I feel like that there needs to,
at least for me, it's like, how can I purpose repurpose this?
Because it, you know, it was more of just, I wanted to share
what I was getting. And so I, I, I created a podcast
that was all about, you know, each podcast with a paranormal
investigation. It was all audio.
There was no video to it whatsoever, which is, is a it's,
it's kind of complex, you know, it's, it's not something people
normally do, but it was really fun because I was able to share
some stuff and because so much of what I was doing, I, I based
and I still do base my paranormal career when I go out
investigate using spirit box. I, I'm a big ITC fan and so that
and then I went to school for radio back in 19 something I, I
went to, I went to it with Marconi.
Him and I, we're pretty close and we, I, I, I went to school
for radio, got into television, went into production, film,
television, all this production that ad agencies.
But in 2015, and I had been doing this for a little while in
2015, a friend of mine was talking about doing, he does a
radio show, you know, and I, I was like, oh, that's
interesting. I'd, I'd love to kind of talk
about it. And ultimately it was for Para
X. It's, you know, it's, and this
was before so many people are doing like the Facebook lives
and stuff now. And so I did a show and I
really, I've always had imposter syndrome.
So it was never about anything I did.
It was always about other people.
I bring other people on. We talked about their
experiences. We talked about what they are
doing and that's still kind of to this day, it's taken me years
to be OK with doing my own shows where there's nobody else on
there except for me talking about all sorts of different
things. Because I always think, I always
think people don't want to hear me.
They want to hear the, the, the person that I'm bringing on.
And I I still think that to a certain degree, but that isn't
actually quite true. Yeah, don't sell yourself short.
Well, I've been told, you know, since because in 2020 I moved to
a radio station, which was a dream come true.
And so but the Chad who runs the station, he always tells all the
hosts people don't TuneIn everyday to see what guests you
have. They TuneIn because they like
the host and the guest is just, you know, also a big part of it,
but it's they they have to like the host first to even want to
tune in every day or every week or whatever the the rhythm may
be. Let's take a step back real
quick to this ITCS that you did what?
What do you like using? What is your go to?
How do you evaluate them all? What's the Walk us through how
you do. It I'm pretty simple.
I, I use, I use basically at SB-7 spirit box.
There is a lot of other devices out there that do this now.
And I, I'm, I certainly think that there is a lot to, to glean
from it. My, my personally, for me, I'm
not a complex person, at least I try not to be.
So if the device is complex, if I have to do a lot of settings
on it, I get bored very easily. If I go and I and I and I, you
know, I'm, I'm recording it just as having the box and having my
recorder and I'm recording myself in the box at the same
time. You know, people used to say you
like when you hear something, speed it up, slow it down, run
it backwards, do all sorts of things to see what's being said.
Come on, we're doing, you know, 6-8 hour investigations.
I don't have time for all that. I mean, quite frankly, and maybe
spirits are like listening right now and they're like, you son of
a bitch. But quite frankly, I'll, you
know, if, if I don't get it in three times, if I'm hearing
something that sounds interesting to me.
And if I don't get it in three times, more than likely I'm
going to pass it up because, I mean, you might get some stuff
and that's fine. But if I don't get it right away
and I might share it with some people too.
What do you think this is? But I, I just, I can't, there's
so much to go through when we do any sort of evidence review.
And so, and, and I'm very simple in that I don't apply filters to
any of my recordings. I don't, I, I used to, and all
it did for me was make it sound like I added a filter to a
recording. It never really gave me what
other people say that they get when they do that.
So, and for me, I've been doing this long enough and I should
have asked if I, if I could have given you some stuff to play and
if you want afterwards I can give you some stuff.
You just want to hear what what I've what I've gotten over the
years. And I will drop it in, you know,
if you want to shoot me over some stuff you're talking about.
I mean, if I, I want to be able to hear it on, on the 1st, on
the first run, like live, that to me is a what that's to me
when it's good. I've had, I believe a, a
fantastic response from, of all people, Mary Todd Lincoln.
And I just, you know, because I, I wanted to, I wanted to show, I
used to do a weekly spirit box session that was Sunday nights.
People would come on. I'd kind of use it like as a
gallery where I'd be like, who do you want me to reach out to?
And people would be like, oh, I'd like the, I'd like my Aunt
Dolores. I'd like this.
I'd like that. And, you know, I'd, I'd ask them
to come through and I, I would focus on them to try to come
through. Now, I don't know what aunt to
Laura sounds like. I have no idea.
You know, I, you know, so if they hear her voice, that's the
validation. I, I, I could hear a voice come
through, but I'm not going to say, oh, that's, you know, your,
your husband, Joe, you know, I mean, I don't know that.
So that's the great part. And then one night, super long
story. So I'm not going to get too deep
into it. There was a documentary about
the last photo of Lincoln on Discovery, and I wanted to know
if this was actually him because it was on in the deathbed at the
Peterson house. And so I'm like, OK, well, why
not ask him? And so I did this kind of pre
sort of before I went live. I basically, and I'm a believer
in the flashlights. I know people don't always like
the flashlights because they're like, well, the O-ring is
expanding and blah blah. Sure, sure, sure.
If you're getting a good cadence, I, I, I'm not going to
throw that out. Who turned on the flashlight?
I don't know. But The thing is, is I, you
know, through, through flashlight, I'm just like, you
know, doing my meditation. You know, President Lincoln, I
would like to show you, can you, you know, first of all, I ask
you to come through and the light turns on and turns off and
I'm like, well, can I want to show you a picture?
And I'm pointing to the screen. This is where you're going to
see it. I'm going to use this box.
I explain everything as best as you can to a man for that was
assassinated in 1865. You know about a radio and
stuff. And every time I would talk and
say something, the flashlight would turn on and off like, yes,
I understand. And then I finally asked, may I
also ask Mary Todd Lincoln a question?
And it turned on and turned off. So this is amazing.
So we start the session and people, you know, we have a good
crowd of people every week for this on Facebook.
And I said, President Lincoln, I hope you're still with us.
And the spirit box is going. And I, I show the picture.
I said, President Lincoln, is this you?
And through the spirit box, you hear this, man?
Yes, it is. And I'm just like, whoa, you
know, and the, the crowd, the, the people in the comments start
going crazy. They're just like, holy shit.
Oh my God, look at this, look at this.
Oh my, I start getting starstruck.
I start getting starstruck. And so I just am like, aha, I'm
just like, OK, And then and I'm just kind of like, I'm in the
daze. I mean, I just couldn't believe
it. I mean, we can never say with
100% certainty that's Abraham Lincoln.
You know, we just. Did you ask him what he thought
of the play? I said I was, I was totally in
disarray. So I didn't have, I didn't have
my wits with me. I I should have.
I mean that Nice, nice to end that right away.
But I said I have a question for Mary Todd Lincoln.
My question because I was so starstruck and out of it.
My question to her was simply going to be, Missus Lincoln,
when you were living, you spoke to the dead.
Now that you're dead, do you speak to the living?
Super simple question, but I was so people are just like going
crazy in the comments. You could just see him.
I'm like missus and you can hear this on the recording.
Missus Lincoln, when you were living, did you, you know, it's
just whore, it's just a mess. And I'm just like, did you
speak? Did you talk?
And finally this female voice
comes through and says, talk about what?
Missus Lincoln, you spent your entire life reaching out to,
reaching out to spirit. Do you talk?
Do you talk to other people? Do you talk to other people as a
spirit to other living people? Talk about life.
Talk about what? And I'm just like, Oh my God,
you know, it's amazing. It's like, I'm going to send
that to you. That's a great one.
Yeah. And and that's it.
That's just amazing. And my favorite though, and I'm
not I'm not ripping on anybody because we don't, you know, a
lot of us don't know a lot about everything.
But somebody said in the comments, can you to very to
validate that it's Lincoln. Can you play it against some
recorded message that he gave? He didn't, he didn't.
That's a little before recording.
I mean, we have an education problem in this country.
You know what's what's really interesting about all that?
Even if it wasn't Lincoln, you're still getting a response.
Yeah. So, yeah, I all right, I can see
that if I had communication with the president, that would sort
of absolutely change the direction of, you know, the, the
there's too many coincidences, right?
Like there's got to be something you're communicating with
something. You get the great recordings,
they're clear, it's happening as you ask it.
I always find that to be wild. Like in and of itself, that kind
of thing is. That was, this was Greg.
Was this done with an SP7? You know, through an amp like
you know, like a portal box or just SP7 by itself?
SP7 with a external speaker. That's it.
OK, cool. That's it.
I've used, I've used some of that stuff before and it's fine.
I'm I just have been kind of pure with it.
Yeah, I don't blame you. I don't blame you.
Won't that all? Right.
So now would you still go out and actively investigate or is
it more now you're that you're talking to other people and
you're doing the the radio show? So, and it's, I think it's
something that we all fall into after a while, right, that a lot
of our investigations are events.
And so we put on events. I work with my friend Char
Savoy. We've, we've worked on in, in
the Midwest on doing events now for a number of years before I
had a little event group that I still use called Para friends
events. And we like to go to locations
that aren't like where everyone goes to.
We try to, we try to find new like we found a, we found a
Masonic Lodge that no one has ever investigated before and we
did an event there. It was, it was a bloodbath,
quite frankly, but that's OK. Most most everyone made it out
unscathed. Yeah.
I mean, honestly, the, the, the energy there was, was was
pretty, pretty nasty, which we didn't, it wasn't when we went
from the. Fans or from the ghosts?
From the ghosts, OK, from the lodge itself.
And it started off we we got permission from the from the
Masons that they were because in the backroom, a lot of these
lodges in the backroom, there are multiple like paintings of
George Washington. And so this one had that too.
And I put one out in a table and I put a trip wire around it.
And I said first to the Mason, it's like, first of all, are you
OK with this? And he's just like, yeah, sure.
And I'm like, again, we were going to try to reach out to
Washington. Are you OK with this?
Yeah. But I should have known better
because, you know, they have that sword that that is used for
like for a special events and stuff.
And that was just laying out. And I said to him.
You might want to put that away. And he's like, you know, so I
mean, it's like, well, this is going to be great.
You mean, you mean the sword that they kneel on?
Whatever. Yeah, whatever sword he's
speaking about is they lay it down and they kneel on it and
they do one of their rituals. That's a that's the sword he's
speaking about. Yeah, Yeah, it's.
And it's just out there before everyone got there, it was just
out there and I'm just like, yeah, this.
And so he's like, yeah, it could be.
And I'm like, no, I'm going to, I'm going to go put it away.
Don't worry, I'm now a Mason. I guess I'll take care of your
stuff. So yeah.
But so we had the strip wire around it and spirit box is
going and stuff. And I and I said, you know, same
way that I tried to bring through Lincoln, I said,
President Washington, we are, we are so excited to be guests in
this lodge, something like that. And, you know, I'm really good
at doing radio for enough time. You're really good at doing this
sort of like monologue that most people in the room are probably
like, get on with it for God's sake.
But I'm, I'm doing this, this kind of monologue kind of
bringing, you know, bringing. I'm like, are you here?
Everything in the room just blows up and I only blow up like
it stops working, but it just goes off, including the trip
wire, everything. And then it was just silent.
It's like, well, that's interesting.
But then we started getting people get started feeling ill.
And I mean like probably an hour or so late, people started
feeling ill. A lot of people had to be like
they had to leave and just sit outside for a while.
And it's either something to do, a spirit or natural gas or
something, I don't know. But, you know, it was just like,
you know, there's this, there's this episode of The Simpsons
where I think it was like a trampoline or something.
And they do this like shot of all the kids who are just laying
in the field because they've got hurt from the trampoline in The
Simpsons backyard. I kind of felt that that was
this investigation where there's just this, like line of bodies,
you know, like, well, you know, come, go to 1.
Come to our one of our events again.
That'd be great. Yeah.
That's the Masons for you, dude. That's that's all right.
It's one of those secret organizations that we don't like
to talk about too much. And I and I had a Mason with us
too, who was, it was always nice because he was able to kind of
fill us in on stuff that we didn't know.
I mean, he's a paranormal investigator.
So he's, you know, he's all about both sides of it.
So it was, it was really nice. We also do a monthly
investigation of this place. We, they're nearby is a city,
part of a, part of the Twin Cities called Anoka.
That is, they call it the Halloween capital of the world.
And this, you know, lot Main Street dates back to the 1860s.
And so we do in one of the buildings the, you know, the
second Wednesday, which is why I had to move, why I couldn't do
it the night that you had requested we do an
investigation. And the, it was, it's just
active. It's, it's active in a very cool
way. It's a safe, it's a safe
location. No one gets sick, no one gets
hurt. Everyone is fine.
And it's a we we get great responses.
For now. Yeah, for now.
I wonder why they go to sleep. Why do they call it the
Halloween capital? What makes?
I mean, I got to say, John and I are from Westchester.
We got Sleepy Hollow up in our neck of the woods.
I bigger Halloween than Sleepy Hollow or Salem.
I I'm not here to, I'm not here to defend Anoka.
I'm here to All I know is that what they call themselves and
they, you know, at least in the Twin Cities.
Wait, Hey, absolutely. Let me, let me, let me call up
the mayor. Now.
Let's get this. Going this mayor on the phone,
like, how dare you? I mean, I, I don't know, I have
doubts. Well, I mean, I would say
certainly the the Halloween capital of the Twin Cities.
Will you give me that? All right, all right.
I'll give them that. I'll give them.
That Halloween capital of Anoka, I mean, that's and there's that
too, so. So Greg, do you you consider
yourself an intuitive? I do what?
Where does that? When did that manifest and what
made you embrace it? It, it, I think it's been with
me my whole life. Just, you know, there are, there
are things I think that we all experience that we know that,
you know, that we're drawn to that we know outcomes before
they happen. We, we feel energies.
We feel people's energies without necessarily them having
a like a frown in their face or a smile on their face.
When I got into this field of paranormal, I, I really didn't
want to claim it in any possible way only because I see so many
people claim it and they're not, or at least they're, they're,
they don't come across well with it.
And I didn't want to be that I, I, I, I hold great respect for
people who are intuitive mediums, all that stuff.
But then the more and more that I was using spirit box and
people had asked for specific people to come through and I
could, I could pull them through to talk with us.
It wasn't going to be for hours, but you know, you get something
out of them. That's when I'm like, OK, maybe
I am doing all right with this. Maybe maybe I am.
I can connect. It doesn't mean that I
necessarily need to be like, you know, Teresa Caputo over here.
But I I could do it enough that I am helping people, which is
always been my thing is helping people reconnect with their
loved ones and also helping spirits connect or go home even
all. Right, you guys, I, I want to, I
want to come back to that in a second because you said some
things here that we're going to, we're absolutely going to touch
on. Look, I, I always say, I think
John's intuitive in some way. I mean, that's why he gets, he
hates when I say it. But I mean for the probably for
the same reason why you don't like to, you didn't like to say
it. But I do believe that people who
get these kind of results from ITC or Spirit boxes like you and
like what John gets has to be because they're on a different
level of some somewhere and somehow and it happens.
Listen, I'm out of medium. I'm a triple X, you know that's.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all.
That's all outside. I mean, I mean, I mean, John, do
you think, do you think that has something to do with the fact
that you're using the equipment that it feels like that, that
they're in like different categories, different silos, you
know, mediumship, you know, I used to always think that
mediumship is like, whereas I'm using equipment and I can, I can
very much document exactly what I'm saying here.
I I just curious because that's I think that might be where I
was at. Yeah, yeah, for the most part.
You know, I I need equipment to communicate with the dead.
You take the equipment away and guess what?
I'm just an average dude. You know, I don't feel spirits.
I don't. You know I don't.
I can't. That's not true.
That's not what you said. You've said you felt like you're
in in a. That's not true.
They're backpedaling. But that's no no, no, I'm not
backpedaling. You are I.
Can't I? No, I'm definitely not.
Definitely not. You have said you feels like
jello. You know, everybody, everybody
tell me Gary shouldn't be be like this more with the guests
we have on than me, I. Am when I am when they when they
backed out. A. 100 times No no, 100 times
You feel like you're in jello when?
There's acting, but that has nothing that can be with people
too. That that's what I'm saying.
But yes, but that's but. Everybody does that, but
everybody does that. Everybody has that ability.
You see, you said it yourself, you see somebody and you're
like. Yes people get vibes about that
I agree. I agree but I feel like yours is
stronger. I think people yours is stronger
like than most and that's why it works.
But maybe that's just experience.
Maybe they should experience. You know, I mean, I couldn't
possibly comment and what John feels and not feels, but.
I'll no, no, I know. But I mean just in general from
all the people you've met, the mediums you've met and the, and
you know you, which has been a lot over the decades you've been
doing this. So what is the consensus?
I feel, I feel, I feel like that sometimes people, and I don't
mean John in this. I really don't.
There's people who are like I, you know, I'm, I, I have as many
medium shifts, you know, I'm, I'm as intuitive as a rock.
You know, I hear that so often from people and I think that
some people wear that as a badge because maybe there's so many
people that say they're intuitive and they want to stand
out and they don't want to be that way.
But I, I would, I would, I would challenge John at at a point
that he feels comfortable doing so at an investigation that he
feels that he can do this is go 1/2 an hour, an hour of it
without equipment and see what you're picking up because that
happens. That happens when everything
dies. You know, I've walked through
cemeteries and locations when the spirits drain everything.
And it's like, all right, guys, looks like this is what we're
doing. And, you know, every now and
then you'll hear disembodied voices.
You know, we'll pick up a disembodied voice here and there
for those that don't know what disembodied voices, you know,
you don't know the source of that voice, right?
It's not coming from a piece of equipment.
You think it's not coming from human vocal cords.
So that'll happen, right? That'll happen.
That happens with the equipment on or off.
But once the equipment's off like, that's the most that'll
happen. For me, you see what I'm saying,
Greg? Deniolate.
Just the river in Egypt, you know what I mean?
Well, I mean, but it was like, do they come to you in inside
your head? Does the does the messages come
inside your head ever? Because no, Maybe.
It's, it's funny you do mention inside your head though, because
I got cedar fever by the way, that's why I keep coughing.
Cedar fever is a big thing down here in Texas in this area that
matter. So it's funny you mentioned in
your head, I have noticed that some spirits have the ability to
skim the top of your mind. Like I'll be talking to people,
not even talking to the spirits, and all of a sudden the spirits
will say what I'm about to say before I even say it.
And it's like a split second before.
So the spirits are saying it and then I'm saying it.
That happens a lot. But as far as like spirits, like
communicating with me in my head, no, I never ever the years
I've been doing this, all the time I've been doing this, never
ever felt that. So there was, I had a psychic
medium that would come on every other week, refined Divine.
Her name is Deb. She's great.
And we do one question readings on the show every other
Wednesday, which was also a lot of fun.
And then I started finding myself when the question would
be given to her that I could answer it.
And yeah, and and I, I kind of had to be a little bit like,
stop beating her to, to the, to the answer.
First of all, that's, you know, my, my number one rule when I do
the show is let the guest speak, not, not me, try to interject.
And then she would sometimes just be like, Greg, what are you
feeling? What are you getting off of that
question? And I don't really have, and I
think, John, you're probably on the same wavelength that I am.
I don't have aspirations to be a medium or anything like that.
100%, Yep. I just, I just Greg 100%.
I want nothing to do with it. The chap, by the way, is against
you, John, they're all saying, like he hears disembodied voices
when we don't. He's he's.
Disrespecting. He just.
Can hear a dog bark and they'll think it's a loved one.
I'm sorry. No, he's real.
Spirit check. But the chap can hear a dog
bark, and they'll think it's a. Loved 1 so my boys, my nephew.
'S humble you guys, it's the truth.
My nephew's humble. He's got, he's got a gift.
He's a witch. I got a witch's Peak, that's
about it. He's a witch.
All right, Greg, let's get back to our guest.
Enough about your nonsense, John.
It's. Crazy.
I don't want to talk about me. I.
Don't want to talk about you either anymore.
I've had it. So where do you draw the line,
Greg, in terms of like, you know, with your because this is
a question that comes up a lot in terms of the ethics, because
you said you'd like to talk and help people.
You know, where, what where is how do you balance that?
How do you balance the ethics when you come across a loved one
who's passed with also trying to get, you know, great content?
Now that you're a content creator, how do you find that
line for yourself? I, I, I think I'm lucky in the
sense that I, I generally don't share unless I do a live spirit
box session. I don't share what I pick up at
investigations anymore. I just don't.
A part of it is I don't have the time to go through the, the
review of the evidence to start with.
So I try which kind. That's the that's the other side
of the ethics. If you're, if you want spirit to
talk to and you're recording them, you should be listening to
what they say because we only pick up the especially using
spirit box, only picking up 1520% of what's actually being
said. You have to go back and listen
to really hear what's being done there.
But you know, there's so many different areas of ethics, you
know, when it, you know, I, I, if, if I have a spirit asking me
crossover, I, I'm going to, I'm going to take that as they need
help. And that's, that gets hard
because there are locations that you can go to and they don't
want you to crossover any spirits because they, they,
that's, they believe that that's, you know, why people
come out to see them, which I understand.
And so I won't because I'm being respectful.
But if I get asked, I have no choice but to.
But I can go outside their door and do it.
You know, I'm not inside, not in the property, but that does.
I don't go asking for it. I used to be like, does anyone
need to cross? And it's like, no.
Where do you think they're so when the Spirit asks, you know,
for you to cross them over, Where do you feel that they're
asking to be crossed too? So I look at it, this is this is
this the way I see it doesn't mean I'm right, but there is,
there is, you know, we, we talked about the veil.
We talked about the certain times of year, the veil gets
thinner, gets thicker. You know, that's the, the, it
goes kind of between our reality and the reality.
You know, we're, we're spirits who have crossed.
They are now fully fledged spirits or not spirits that are
earth based spirits who are still feeling like, hey, you
know, grandma still thinks that this is her house even though
she has passed away and you're tearing down her favorite
wallpaper. And they they just can't let go.
The belief that I've always thought is when you crossover a
spirit that helps them release some of those human touches,
they don't lose the love for their loved ones.
They don't lose anything, but they are able to move on and
experience what else is out there that they weren't able to
get to because they were so concerned about.
And some might stick around because they might be parents
and their kids are still around. And I don't mean like kids like
my age. I mean, kids like, you know, 810
years old, you know, there might been a tragic accident and
they're not ready to move on because they want to keep their
eye on them. That's what we run into.
I've run into spirits who don't want to crossover because
they're afraid what's waiting for them?
They they did something in their life when they were living that
they think that that there is a you know what, basically a judge
and jury waiting for them that's going to sentence them to hell.
I don't believe that. And I, you know, one of the
things that happens when we crossover spirits, when I
crossover spirits, once we and I could feel it, I could see it
and I can feel it once they're crossed, I will ask them, but
can you please tell me that you've crossed?
Could you please tell me you're OK?
And that's what comes back through spirit box.
We've had it where we just get, you know, thank you.
I love you crossed. I'm here.
Good job. You know, stuff like that.
And that's incredible. That's a great answer, Greg,
because you know, you asked that question to a lot of people and
they'll give you the basic nilly Willy, you know, heaven that.
Thank you for that answer. Great perspective and and
incredible answer. Thank you.
To to go along with that, what do you think spirits are, which
is really the heart of what we do here, you know, What is the
spirit? I think it's a good question.
I don't know, you know, I mean, and, and I, I've, I've listened
to you all before and I hear you ask that question and I, I
dreaded you asking me that. So thank you.
And that's, but it's, it's a fair thing.
And you know, you could actually say, well, if you're doing this,
you should have an idea of what they are.
I think they're, they are, I was originally going to say the
essence of us, but there's so much more.
They are us, but we're just moved from our, from our
physical bodies. Obviously.
The other thing is, and I don't know where I fall with all this
when we talk about stuff like reincarnation, like OK in my
mind I think every reincarnation that I might re enter the the
system again, so to speak. But I think that I must be split
because I also believe that spirits continue on as we are
here right now. The essence of me continues on
somewhere a somehow where I'll be able to come back and visit
loved ones and friends and stuff.
But maybe part of me comes back as a a new version of whatever
my next journey is. We always hear about stuff like
the contract. I don't know if you ever heard
like the contract that you know you signed before you come back
in your life. Yeah.
Yeah, the spirit contract
basically. And sometimes I think to myself,
well, if that's true, I need to read the fine print better next
time because it seems like that I I think I overlooked a few of
the paragraphs, but. You wouldn't be both.
You wouldn't be, yeah. Man, hey, Craig, it's like, you
know, look, let me wait, wait, hold one second real quick.
There's there's usually I want to lead the witness a little
bit. There's usually 2 camps here,
right? You've got, or maybe even 3, but
I'm going to break it into two in a very binary way.
When I ask this question of what are spirits?
It's either a very spiritual heaven, you know, whether it's
heaven or hell, but like holy a soul or it's quote UN quote
scientific energy, right? It's a literal energy.
Where in the in a binary sense, you know, if I had to force you
into one, what do you think it is?
Where would you go? Where would you?
Lean I I, I would go more spiritual side with caveats,
with lots of caveats. But you know, The thing is, is
and and I, I personally believe once again, it you know, it
might be like, what the hell is this guy talking about?
But I believe, I don't believe in a hell per SE.
I don't believe that we are sent there.
I think that when we go, I think we create our own destination
too when we go. Like if if you know, if you have
somebody who is a terrorist, mass murderer or something, when
they believe in their cause and they die, they there may be no
repercussion for them. Meanwhile, somebody who grew up
with a certain faith and was told, if you steal as a child a
piece of bubble gum, that's a sin and you're going to you're
going to roast for that. If that person keeps that with
them, then for the bubble gum, roast for the bubble gum.
It might it, that might be that they create their own their,
their own future, their own existence in the afterlife.
That's what they create. I have data and evidence to
support what you just said there, Greg.
I've had spirits, Yep, I've had spirits talk about certain
places like like music theaters, being there, heaven.
Other spirits talk about, you know, creating their own heaven,
creating their own Hells. So that is a huge.
It's a huge. Possibility that that's exactly
what's going on. It's amazing how much of our
brain living or dead plays into this right.
Absolutely. It dictates so much what we do
and and without even without even realizing it.
So yeah, I know it's interesting to hear because I just always
thought that just seems and and that's why I also think that,
you know when we're talking about crossing over spirit that
some just don't want to go because they people, you know I
think I you know back to your question of what is spirit.
I mean I'm I'm I'm threatened to answer.
It's anything we want it to be because I kind of feel that way
about paranormal. But you have people who don't
understand any of that might have been grown up in a certain
religion, very strictly done something they shouldn't have,
and that has marred them for life.
And they just don't. They don't even understand that
There's a concept that you can get around that.
Well, that's why, you know, look, when I ask people this
question, they try to come up with an answer that they think's
the right answer from a 30,000 foot view as opposed to
answering it from what they believe it is, right.
That's why I try to stick with it, you know, hit you with what
is, what do you think you're talking to?
What do you think you're dealing with?
So and then we usually get to that place and and I find it's,
it is it does fall into two into those, yes, there's always
caveats, right? I'm just I'm bottom lining it
and it always falls into those two kids.
Greg, let me ask you something real quick when when you're
communicating with spirits. And this question got posed to
me yesterday, which is why I'm asking.
I'm here in Texas with Chris Netzel official.
And, you know, we've been, you know, going all around Texas and
out of the blue, he just turns to me and he goes, John, have
you ever felt that some spirits feel like they're repercussions
to speaking to us? And, you know, I said, well, I
actually have some data on that. And I have some evidence where
the spirits do talk about that. Like, they can't speak to us.
It's taboo in some way. Have you ever come across
anything similar? Yes and no.
I think I I-11 thing that comes to mind quite a bit too, is
that, you know, sometimes I don't know if you ever come
across John like a gatekeeper at a location.
I was about to say, almost like a gatekeeping.
Yep, Yep. Almost like gatekeeping.
Yep. Walk me through that, boys.
What's it What? What do you mean by gatekeeping?
So, so basically if you think of it like a, like a mob in a sense
that there is going to be 1 spirit there that kind of
controls everything in a location, everything.
And so these are going to be spirits that have not, This is
my definition doesn't mean that it's the correct one, but this
is how I see it. Spirits that have not crossed
over, they are either they're there's, they're planted in this
location for any number of reasons. 1 might be this
omnipresent, more powerful being that's there could just even be
a spirit that's kind of controlling everything,
controlling everyone, controlling who they're allowing
to talk to us when we go in. And I ran across that in a
number of places, but one of the most recent ones was the Beatty
Mansion over in I thought of the Missouri, Kansas, one of the
two. I you know, you get to so many
places you don't even know where stuff is anymore.
You start losing track, right? Yeah, and, and, and so we, we
had it. And, and it's also I, I, if
you're just watching us, you might be like, oh, that's an
excuse for, you know, when you're not getting any responses
and you're like, I feel like there's something that's
stopping them from responding. I'm sure people are like, oh,
for God's sake. It's just that, you know, no
one's talking to you, but you could feel it because you can,
you can feel the energy. You know, that's what you always
obviously want to do when you go into a location, you want to
feel the energy around you. And when you're not getting any
responses, nothing is going off. You got to be like, how is this
possible? I know I could feel it in my
with my body that there's spirits all around me.
Why are they not talking to me? And sometimes it's literally
that there is this one. And sometimes it could be
literal, like if you're in a prison or something and you have
a gang in there and the leader of the gang is just like, Nope,
you're not talking to these people.
And that's as simple as that. And unless you can get through
with them, you're probably going to have a very quiet night.
Does that answer your? Did I kill the podcast?
Doesn't mean. No, not at all.
No, I was just thinking because I've I've come across that in a
in a different way. You'll never anything saying hey
I am the gatekeeper. More like 1 spirit just being
completely unruly and just bogging everything down, right?
Like, you know, like all the sudden you'll get a little bit,
you'll hear a child come through and then something will come
through and just stop that from happening, you know?
And it's the same thing over and over.
My answer. Wasn't literal.
Yeah, my answer wasn't literal. That was just more of like,
that's kind of what it seems like.
Yeah. I've never had exactly.
Yeah, I've never had to either. Like you will talk to no one
else, you know? It's just you get that feeling,
though can I also say real fast too, that whole the whole
spiritual versus technological aspect of what spirit is.
I also feel like that investigations can fall easily
in one or the other as well. Well, yeah, you know, I wanted
to and I'm glad you brought that up.
One of my questions for you is really, you know, you talk about
bridging this gap between, you know, paranormal investigators
that let's let's just again, putting them in a box for a
second. They're the ones who are a
little more technological. They they aren't, they think
they're scientific for some of them, some of them really are.
Some of them hope to be, but they always consider themselves
a science based front, right versus mediums.
How do you want to bridge that gap and how far?
Should you push it one way or the other?
You know, I think that one of the things is that understanding
that mediumship and paranormal like going on investigations
there, there really isn't any difference between the two
because both sides are trying to reach out to spirit.
The the mediums tend to be in the I mean, I've never run into
a medium who is just like, well, I think I can reach out to
someone. They're pretty confident about
it. And paranormal investigators,
they are either in going on investigations, they're either
confident about it or they're also which, which in the way
that I investigate, you know, you get some investigators who
go into location and what they're hoping to do is have
something happen that helps them put something to to help them
understand that there is something more out there.
Like there's investigators who they don't necessarily believe,
they want to believe, but they need more than just a, you know,
something coming through a spirit box.
And I appreciate that and I respect that.
Where I'm just like, you know, you know, can someone come and
talk to me? And there's like a a bee that
lands on the window. It's like, oh, what's that, You
know, that I'm suddenly I'm not, I'm not ruling that out because
I do. I tend to investigate more with
my heart than with just the equipment Where where because I
come from the standpoint is I know spirits exist.
I've spoken to them. I've the stuff I've seen over
the years. I don't need the the scientific
sort of run through for me to accept that.
But that's my own journey and it's not theirs.
What what then is for Ghost Box Radio in this podcast and these
interviews in this years and years of talking to people that
you've had, what is your ultimate goal for that?
What do you want people to get out of it, and what's the
direction of it for you? For you?
What? Have you learned from it?
Like I'm just, you know, I'm very curious, like where is,
what's your path for it? My path for it is I want people
to to understand what paranormal is, what they when, and have
them come to that conclusion themselves.
And so my role with the radio show is to bring forth concept,
ideas, people that will help them understand that it's, and
this is this is kind of been my mantra of late.
It goes beyond the shows. It goes beyond the celebrities.
What this is is that there is there's a a great deal of, of,
of stuff out there and energies that you can use that not only
will connect you with with spirits, will connect you with
Bigfoot, will connect you with aliens.
At this I can, I can tell you without with absolute certainty
because I've experienced all of it.
And this is the stuff that you know, it's not, it's not going
into the woods with guns and stuff.
It's it's literally thinking of everything as energy.
And if I could help people understand that a little bit
more, at least understand where I'm coming from with it, that
would be great. I don't know if I have any
personal aspirations when it comes to spirit world because
I've had so many great experiences already.
Has anything or anybody you've ever met changed the track you
were on? Like you were thinking one way
and then you met somebody and it made you pivot.
I don't know, I, I've said once, once I realized that I wanted to
help people and, and, and spirits.
And that was the big thing, help people and spirits because going
to an investigation, it's always like you're, you're a negotiator
if you're doing private investigations, like you got
these people who need help. But we can't just be like
exterminators when it comes to spirits.
We have to kind of figure out how could we, how can we help
them and also help them understand why maybe this isn't
going to work and, and explain to them how this is these
people's houses now or whatever, come to some kind of agreement
with it. What I found over time is that
like energy attracts like energy.
So over the my, my time doing this, I've, I've befriended a
lot of people and we all seem to have the very same sort of of
belief system, how we want to approach it, how we want to do
it it. This goes way back very early on
for me. I was on an investigation, one
of the first ones I ever did with like anyone in the
community in the Twin Cities. And I was with another team and
I had my spirit box going. It's so funny because everyone's
like it would back then. Everyone's just like we don't
use spirit box. No one uses it.
Why are you using whatever? Sure enough, though, I'll come
out there like, can you spirit box?
Yeah, sure, no problem. So I'm using spirit box and some
guy from another team, he just starts yelling towards the box
like, do you want to talk to me? Do you want to talk to me?
And I looked at him and like, nobody wants to talk to you.
I don't know why you're, why are you even saying that?
Because he saw it on the TV show, you know, because I, I
know that I know exactly who he's trying to emulate there.
And I just, that was where I kind of decided my mantra for
anything Ghost Box was this isn't, this isn't our story.
This is their story and they being our clients and the
spirits and everyone who I've worked with has always been in
line with that. And not because of me and maybe
some because of me a little bit, who knows, but more so because
of we are all thinking the same thing.
With what you just said, you know, you brought up a really
good, an interesting point here about, you know, you had to
you're with somebody and they behaved a certain way based on
what they probably saw in the media.
What what do you think the future of paranormal media is?
I mean, you know, like the TV let you know, legacy television
is it is on its way out. We've got a few shows there that
are still left with a few people that are big names and they're
still doing their thing and they have, you know, I don't knock
anybody. They got great fans and they
there's things that and I know people that make those shows
right. So that's right.
And I know what they're doing and how they're going about it.
But now we've got social media where it's short form
programming and podcasting is getting bigger.
What where do, where do you fit? Where do you see yourself
fitting in? And where do you see what are
they going to be doing right? What do you want them to be
doing? How?
How is this all playing into what you believe is the proper
way to investigate and where it's going?
Oh, it's a hard question because I just, I have a very cynical
view. First of all, I'm not going to
lie, my, my view is very cynical on mainstream paranormal because
I just see so many people asking for money.
I see so many people who, and I'm, and I mean people who are
known, people who are somewhat known, you know, I, I get, I get
it, times are tough. But there's people who have been
doing it long enough where they can't get a, a, dare I say a
real job, you know, I mean, that they've, they're so embedded
into this now. It's, it's really tough for
them. You know, I, I feel like
sometimes I want to scream, go into a Paracon and scream at
people that this isn't the only way paranormal works.
You know, it's, it's, there's so many people who do like the
extreme experiences and stuff. And I understand.
I mean, I, I've been through all that in my own way thinking that
that's the way it should be. I don't think that's the way it
should be now. But then again, that's just my
opinion and I, I have to learn that my opinion is not a fact.
You know that. I want your opinion.
I want to hear what I want to hear.
I want to hear your direction. What is the way we should be
doing it? But I, I, I am always a kind of
middle of the road kind of guy. So even when I'm saying
something that it's like, ah, you know, I get annoyed by this
part of me is also like, I also know that that doesn't apply to
everybody. I, that's the, that's the
problem with being so down the, down the, down the center, as I
often am with almost everything. But I don't like, I don't like
paracons because paranormal investigators, they tend to
think that they become, they become celebrities at these
things. And I understand it's great to
be able to be recognized and it's great to be, you know,
like, oh, what you do is cool. I get all that.
But you know, you, you go to some people's Facebook pages and
you're like, come on, just lose the ego.
Come on. It's it's, you know, and and
it's it's. Unfortunately, it's
unfortunately a necessary evil. Right.
Because there's no other way. There's hypocrisy of what I'm
saying because I'm making money off my radio show, you know, and
and I just, you know, that's that's the thing about and
everyone has a right. If they can get to a certain
place and they can make money off of it, they should.
I just hope that it's not, you know, about, you know, I sound
like a like a dad or something. I hope that they're they're
finding a balance, the balance. It sounds like that's what
you're what you're. You know I.
I was going to say, John, you know, he's right.
But it's like also, I think what Greg said at the beginning about
himself where not to psychoanalyze because I'm not,
I'm not qualified to do that. But when you said you had
imposter syndrome, I think it's almost like you feel bad that
you're making money off this where it's like, and I would say
to you, Greg, don't you're you've been doing this a long
time. You're good at it.
There is no shame in making a living doing it and having
people pay you to do it. This.
Is what you do. And it's like this is how this
is what whatsoever, you know what I mean?
Like this feels like a part of the imposter syndrome for you.
It's like I've been listening to a lot of your shows before, you
know, when I to come on, it's like you have great guests, you
have a great rapport with them. It's very casual, it's very
smooth and people feel really safe with you.
It's really nice. You should be paid for it and
you should make money off it. And it's and I would say that's
the way it goes. You know, it's what you know,
why should we? Why should anybody do something
they're good at for free? You know, it's in my.
Anyway, that's just my. There's there's, there's also a
lot of people who want to come on the show and I won't allow
them because I don't like them. You know, I just, you know,
there's just a show, right? Well, and the thing I, I have to
like and believe what they're doing to have them on because
that because, like you said, Gary, this is a safe place.
It always has been and always will be.
And to do that, you, I have to believe in what you're doing.
I. Want to know who he doesn't
like? Who don't you like?
Oh hell no one. 'S you could see very actually
pretty simple, you know, like one of the things, one of the
things I've been railing against, quite honestly, is the
whole Jason has conjuring house. I mean, I've been very open
about it on the on the show and, and to be very clear, it's not,
it's not about it's not about anything other than like you
spend your money how you want to.
First of all, if you decide that you want to, you want to put
money into helping Jason Haas buy a house, you are more than
welcome to do so. That is your prerogative.
What I would ask people who do that is to please don't forget
about the local establishments that that they don't have a
Jason Haas advocating for them in their corner.
You know those, those then there's a lot of them out there
and you know, I, I good for Jason using his stardom and a
celebrity and he's a good guy. I mean, I've, I've met him.
I, I think he's a really nice guy.
I just please, folks, there's more than just what that's on
the TV shows or the TV celebrities.
You know, the open your broaden your mind a little bit.
That's why I don't have, I don't have people who are celebrities
like that on my show because I want to bring in people that may
not get the exposure that that they, they deserve as well.
So you know. I hear you that that I that's
listen, that's respectful. I I get your point.
Full disclosure for us, we would love to have Jason Hawes on the
show. We've asked him.
He's actually said he would do it, but then we never heard from
again. I think we I think the phrases
got ghosted. We did have Andrea Paradon and
we did promote her look incredible.
She incredible. And you know, she's this, this,
this. Purchase is something she was
for, so we certainly promoted it for her, you know, and that is
that's interesting. You know, I would love to I know
look, by the time I would get him on this whole thing might be
done. I, you know, I don't really know
the ends. And I think the problem is he
can't. He, I think the biggest problem
with this whole ghost house purchase thing is that he can't
explain it thoroughly for reason, for whatever legal
reasons he's embedded with. Because I don't understand why
it was a GoFundMe and not a Kickstarter other than speed.
I'd love to know why that is. It's very strange to me to just
ask people for money to do something for yourself and as
opposed to a Kickstarter and then people.
Well, isn't that? I think Kickstarter whole thing.
Right, like my whole thing is this, when the dust falls with
that entire situation, we will see the end result.
And if the end result and you know, maybe I'm speaking out of
pocket, but if the end result is an affordable investigations for
the paranormal community, then we got our answer.
I hate to say it that way, but it's the truth.
Like if, if, if your average Joe, if your average guy that
wants to investigate the paranormal can't go in there
affordably. Well, I just think, yeah, I
mean, that's all fine and good. What the end result is.
I'm just saying I'm talking about we're at the beginning
and, and it's unclear the impetus of those things.
And also I think at the end of the day, whoever spends the most
money is going to get it. And I, I just think that
probably, of course, the, I think it's Elton Cassidy and
those and Matt Rife have more money and they're going to
probably wind up getting it. I mean, I, I can't imagine they
wouldn't. And they own the other house and
they'll just make it 1 big conjuring universe, which is,
you know, who gives a yeah, but it's like, I don't care.
More power to them. It's like, you know, again, this
is what they're into. They have this whole brand for
it. And if they buy it, that's their
business. I don't care.
And if even if even if Jason gets the house and he decides to
to rank up the charges on it. And then it's like people get
mad at him, but it's like, all right, well, what'd you think he
was going to do? Do you know what I'm saying?
It's like, you just bought a, you just bought a business.
So it's like, that's fine. We bought a business for him.
Well, you know, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't
support it. But I mean, but that's that's
where and it kind of what you're saying Gary earlier and I know
that we're veering widely off topic and I apologize.
No, no, it's all right. It's all.
Right I. Don't.
This is exact. I asked, and this is exactly on
topic because I want to know how you've been doing this for so
long and it's interesting when you're as a meet as a host.
So no, it's not. Well, and, and, and so like,
the, The thing is, it's like part of me is like, you know,
he, I don't think, I don't think Jason's scraping like any
quarters together. I mean, I think he's doing
pretty well. Why do, why do we need to turn
this into a, any kind of crowdfunding of any kind?
That's I, I never understood that.
And I, I don't know Jason's finances.
I I've, I've obviously don't but.
That's why I think that's why. That's why I don't go up against
it, right? I don't understand and I don't
think he can fully explain. Which puts him probably in an
awkward position to have to eat the shit from people who are
slamming him because he can't speak to the real.
Why was this the best method to go about this to achieve this
goal? Unless and and that this is me
giving the man the benefit of the doubt is not being somebody
who's nefarious, who's like twisting his mustache saying I'm
going to do it this way so I can make spend my own money less.
I mean, I'm. Assuming he's got plumber,
right? Yeah, he's still a plumber.
Yeah. You know what, this is as simple
as, hey, listen, he was out of the game for a while.
He's he's stuck to his roots. He still, you know, still did
his, you know, roto-rooter. I think that's the company.
We're sort of the roto-rooter. You know, he's still doing that,
You know, and now all of a sudden somebody comes and pleads
to him, hey, listen, I want to preserve this place.
And he's like, all right, I got to do what I got to do.
We don't. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
We can't. We will never know.
Like we'll never know the truth until maybe later.
But it's like, who knows? But that's that's why I give the
guy the benefit of the doubt I have.
I refrain from saying like like being one of the negative.
Yeah, super negative. Hope that when the dust falls,
the average guy could go, average man or woman and
everything in between can go and check that place out.
I think, I think we're moving away from that in general, not
just with the Matt Rife story or condry.
I think there is enough bigger paranormal businesses that are
taking on locations that are making things that are going to
eventually make things a little bit more higher price because
they're seeing what's going on around the market.
I mean, Lizzie Borden, we're. Already seeing that, Greg.
You're right. We're already seeing that.
Yeah, Yeah. And Lizzie Borden's house got
even more expensive, and that was already expensive, so.
And it's just kind of like, yeah, you know, but I mean, it's
what it is. I mean, that's just supply and
demand. Too, though, right, guys?
I mean, it's like the when the UFO thing sort of booms with the
government releasing information, all of paranormal,
all ships rise at the tide and everything paranormal sort of
got back into the the, the heat of things, you know, and, and in
the public eye. And then sure, prices are going
to go up, man. People are going to want to see
these things and, and want to go with them.
But I think the real point is, Greg, ask people for money or
like, up your charges, up those ad rates, bro, make that money.
You're good at this. I'm, I'm at the corner of
streets every day with a little hat on the on the sidewalk.
That's kind of how I've been doing it with a, with a little
guitar so. Yeah, listen, you got to fuel
that I. Don't know how to play guitar
so. Right.
What would be your advice then for people you know who are new
and coming into this world now with the media as it is, with
what, what they have access to Because look, let's face it,
right, the gateway to entry is much easier, right?
Anybody can go out and do it. Most people are going out.
There's a lot of people going out there and doing it.
So what? What would be your advice to
them to either for not only success but for credibility?
I think obviously open mind when it comes to the media, enjoy it
and it, you know, there's nothing wrong with watching the
YouTube stuff or anything, but always remember that don't
always take things at face value.
Be skeptical. How you know, open mind, but
still be skeptical. Don't you know?
I mean, if, if I'm telling people that I have Mary Todd
Lincoln on my spirit box, push back if you don't believe it,
you know what I mean, You'd make sure that you are, you know,
being true to what you're feeling about certain
situations. But, you know, I'd also just
remember that don't be rigid either in in what you're
thinking that I'd, I firmly believe that there aren't rules
in the paranormal when it comes to, you know, even orbs of all
things. Just be open minded and have fun
with it. Thick big orb controversy.
Who you are you watching Anybody that you're having fun watching
that you think are just doing something different out there?
Not really, no. No Part of it too is I, I'm just
so over it and I come, like I said, I come from a background
of television editing. So I can see the edits pretty
easy. When, when they try to present
something as linear and you're like, Nope, that's not linear.
That's not linear at all. Gary, I would.
I would suspect you do the same thing, that you could see it
pretty quickly too. Oh, for sure.
I mean, yeah, and I and I know. So I don't, you know, it's it
doesn't, it doesn't bother me unless it takes me out of the
story, right. Like I'm watching like there's a
guy, you probably have seen him and we're going to have him on
soon. Who's who's who.
I absolutely love his name's Jake Bruce.
He's like the like he makes me laugh hysterically.
He like goes into the house and he blasts music at the spirits.
I mean, listen, I don't give a what anybody thinks.
He it's it's something different.
It is a different, just like when John started cleaning
headstones. It is a new way to go about
doing something we've we haven't seen before.
It is the most fun thing he'll get every now and again.
Sometimes he doesn't get anything.
Every now and again he gets something that's wild and it is
so fun to watch. I find it like a disruptor.
You know he's a disruptor to the to the mainstream, right?
It's so. Respectful too.
And it and it plays into the medium in which he is, you know,
a part of right into the short form vertical media.
It just he's work like to me he's.
Working him and his brother, him and his brother.
Yeah, and they do now. They think they do separate
things, but it's like they, but they are like to me, that was
different. That stood out to me, like, Oh
my God, right, right away. Like that's the kind of thing
that attracts me to this. And I'm all new to this, right.
I've been doing it now for a little over a year.
So it's always very new, like when we met like Monique too
soon, right, The drag queen ghost time.
It's just she's amazing and she goes in and it really speaks to
this energy of, you know, she's putting everybody up, up in
everybody's energy. And does that have an effect,
You know, the room that she's in And like that to me, super
interesting, right? So I think there's way that
people out there that are doing things that are cool that I
enjoy sort of checking out. Well, and the, and the thing
with her is that there's not going to be a lot of people who
are going to see them be like, Oh, I'm going to do that, You
know, I mean, and that's, that's, that's the big part
about it. I'm one of the things, one of my
bane of my existence, especially at events, is the Estes method.
I am not a fan of it whatsoever. And I think you have to really
trust the people you're with to do it.
I think doing it with, with strangers is, is not a great
idea personally. I mean, I and I, we just, we
just did an investigation last Thursday.
And one of the people who came to the investigation and me
being as hospitable and kind as I am always, she's like, oh, I
brought stuff for the Estes method and I just like vomited
on the spot. And she's like, and she's, and
rightly son, I shouldn't have done that, quite frankly.
And she's just like, why don't you like the Estes method?
And I said, because every single time we're in an area and we're
not getting a lot of hits on spirit box or anything, and you
put on someone does the whole thing for the Estes, sure
enough, you're going to either start getting a lot of swearing
that suddenly is coming through that wasn't coming through
before demonic stuff, all this stuff.
And it's like, I'm not necessarily saying that people
are lying, but it just seems very suspect that did.
You see, did you happen to see our our thing?
We did it like a group Estes method.
Did you know? Did your?
I hadn't seen that, I'll have to check that out.
All right, so here's what we did.
So we did, we got the guys who do silent disco, silence
activations. They sort of helped us out.
So they gave us all those those headphones that are all linked.
And we plugged in a couple of the apps and we changed up
various apps to it. And we had about, we had about
15 to 20 people to start. And then when we actually
started rolling, about half of them quit, didn't want to do it.
And then one person left in the middle of it.
So we had about 10 people to do it.
And what we discovered, which is amazing.
So first of all, we learned what we did wrong when we were doing
it. One, when people are sitting
next to each other, you'll get a couple of delayed yells, so they
could still hear the person next to them yelling.
So we really next time would try to isolate as much individually
as we can. Two, people hear what they want
to hear, right? So some people would hear their
own name, right? So like a lot, a lot of people
hear their own name and especially like some of these
people went by handles, you know, like from, because there
are a lot of John's mods that he invited was one of his mod
parties. And so that was fascinating.
But when it did connect, when there was direct Q&A in unison,
that was really weird and wild. I believe it.
To have I. Believe it.
So we had a lot of fun doing we have it was, yeah, we called it,
you know, we, it was our, it, it was our, it's our group bestest
method episode, you know, and it was really, we want to do it
again. And hopefully we'll get more and
more people like, I'd love to do it like a, you know, I'd love to
do it if I had Mr. Beast's money, I would do it with 1000
people and see, you know, and ice them in, you know, in cubes
with 1000 different cameras and mics on everybody individually
to really do it. But at least we did it first and
we tried to do it. But yeah, it's, it's I'm, I'm
enjoying this world, right. You know, and I got into it
through John and I'm fascinated. Some people call me a skeptic
and they there's a nuance to it. I'm not, I ask a lot of
questions and people get sometimes get bent.
But it's more his experience. And I'm the novice more so than,
you know, the believer in the skeptic.
And yeah, I describe it, you know, to people.
It's like, you know, if a kid asks you a question, like, why
are you doing this? You're going to answer them.
It's like, oh, I do it like this because of this.
But when an adult asks you a question, why are you doing
this? They think they, they put their
guard up. Like they think I'm going to
dunk on them or something. I'm like, no, dude, I really
just, I don't understand it. And I really want you to explain
it to me why you do certain things.
You know, I get it. I get it.
But. Greg, I want to thank you for
your time. I mean, this is really great.
I love having an experienced not only investigator, but media
host and podcaster and radio host on here.
It's very fun watching the show. Everybody you know and we're
going to put up links to Ghost Box radio.
It'll be in the link tree in my bio right after this airs we
reach we're going to re drop this episode tomorrow.
It'll be nice and clean without the echo in the beginning.
It'll be nice and smooth wherever podcasts are with more
links to Ghost Box radio. So please check it out follow
Greg wherever you can follow him.
I had a lot of fun. It was really interesting dude.
I hope you did too. I hope it was good.
It was great. Thank you, I really enjoyed it.
Well, that's it for another episode of Splintered Spirits.
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Until next time, stay curious.