Have you ever gone back to that restaurant and give them a give
them a bad Yelp review? Like food?
Food was great, food was great, but the bullets afterward, the
dessert was not so great. Your your Rd. service.
Welcome to Splintered Spirits. I'm your host Gary and along
with my nephew John Santa from Santa Paranormal, we explore
spirit communication to try and answer the question, what are
spirits? Our guest today, Matthew
Botsford, has a story that challenges everything we think
we know about life, death and what might come after.
In 1992, Matthew was standing outside a restaurant in Atlanta
when a stray bullet struck him in the head.
Matt died, DED, dead. A true flatline.
We've all heard of near death experiences.
The person has an accident, sees the light or their grandma
glowing with wings, and then wakes up with a new outlook on
life. But what followed for Matthew
wasn't light or peace, it was torment.
Matthew had what's called a distressed near death
experience, and it happens to an unfortunate select few.
Matthew says he awoke in a dark, cavernous place, surrounded by
twisted creatures and unbearable pain.
He calls it hell, but that's not where his story ends.
After 27 days in a coma and a miraculous recovery, Matthew
came back convinced that what he experienced was real and that it
revealed something profound about the human spirit,
consciousness, and the power of love to pull us back from the
edge. We're going to explore what
Matthew saw, what he believes spirits are, and how his brush
with the afterlife reshaped his understanding of everything.
Let's dive into the conversation.
Matthew, it's good to see you. Welcome to splintered spirits.
Gary, thank you. Good to be here, man.
Yeah, man, it's good. It's where.
Where are we finding you today? Where?
Where are you from, Matthew? St.
Augustine, FL. Oh, and you're and it's I see
you're wearing a sweater. It's a yes, long pant.
Sweater, not Saint Augustine normal outfits.
We're just cold today and then we get nice and warm tomorrow
and we warm up back into our 70s come the weekend.
So that's called Florida. How long you been living there?
We've been here, let's see, five years, I think.
Where were you before that? Saint Simons Island.
Got it, got it, got it. Georgia.
That's right. Well, Matt, you've got the, the
reason why I talked to you today is because you have a, a very
interesting perspective and a unique experience into this
question that we always ask on splintered spirits, which is
what are spirits, you know, and as we talk about the paranormal
and spirit communication. So before we get into the
spiritual side of things, I would love if you could just
walk us through that night again, from the moment you, you
know, from the moment you were first shot to the first moment
you realized you were somewhere else.
Yeah, like you said, Gary, back in 92, waiting for a taxi on a
business trip, there was some gentlemen outside, did not know
this, drunk, intoxicated, carrying 9mm Uzis and took a
shot up like 50 yards behind me. So I caught a bullet in the top
of my head. Didn't know it at the time, but
when I felt was like this searingly hot, like if you took
a hypodermic needle and heated it up, you know, in a flame and
then just punched it in the top of your head and I'm coming out
of the camera, but punch it in the top.
It was in the top right side of my head.
And so the bullet came in and it was incredibly painful.
And it was, it was an instantaneous thing, Gary.
I mean, from from I went from begin who I knew I was, you
know, my body, you know, existing in this world as we
know it. So all of a sudden coming into
this other place where black, cold, no, no human life was
there, but it was filled with one.
It was filled with other things, other spirits, if you will,
demons. They were very evil where I
went. So you were on a business trip?
Yes, Sir. And what would you say?
Like, you know how, what was your life like before this
incident happened? Were you like a big partier
Matt? Like what was the what was the
lifestyle like for Matthew Botsford before this incident?
No, Matthew Botsford was a really good guy, newly married,
and you know, I was all about working hard in a family
business in order to make a good living, to take care of my
family. But I was a good person, you
know what I mean? Not like a party or no, not like
that at all. Cared about people, love people,
love my family. So that was my goal, you know?
Were you as because you're quite religious now?
Now I am yes. Were you as religious before?
Would you say no? No.
Were you practicing? I believe that there was a God
before OK, but I never knew his son.
If you will to have a better relate to have a actual
relationship with God. I did not know Jesus.
That all changed after this whole experience.
What? What denomination would you say
you are? Non, non, non denomination
Christian. Christian OK, so you were so
before the incident. You're, you're, you're, you're
raised Christian, right? Your family.
But did you go to church every Sunday?
Did you do that kind of thing? No, Maybe on a Christmas or a
holiday. Yeah, right.
You were a holiday, right? I get it for sure.
I don't. I don't know what you caught.
There's a word for that. I I think, yeah, I know there is
there is a sort of a funny look. I went to I was raised Catholic.
I went to Catholic school for like, you know, till 8th grade.
So and then I know I know exactly what you're talking
about. Those just those holiday, the
holiday goers. You know what?
God, there is a name for that. I got to look that up.
Yeah, there, isn't it? Yeah, it's eluding.
Me right now. So right mate?
So you're working and it's a family business.
You're on this trip with your brother, Yes, you get shot.
You get shot in the head. Yes.
And then it it's it is now when you look back upon it, it was
almost immediate that you were then.
Yeah, it was, it was, it was an immediate thing whereby I was no
longer in this realm, experiencing people in this
realm, but dying on a sidewalk. And I was immediately
transported into this other side, this other world full of
horrible creatures. Now, yes, I want to hear, I want
right before you tell me that these about these creatures
which I want to get into. Did you feel at any moment that
this was a dream? I did not.
I did not ever feel it was an illusion.
I. Agree.
No, it was. So.
Pure reality. So tell me, when did you so
you're there and were you so to go ahead and now get into it,
man. Like let's hear it.
So you're you're you're in this blackness.
Describe the scene. Where are you?
What are you doing? The the best I can describe
where I was at is like a a bottomless pit.
There was no end to the. I couldn't see the ends.
You know what? You know what I mean?
Were you standing on the edge of like a Cliff or something?
No, I was actually hung down on the edge of a Cliff crucifixion
style, like with chains on my wrists, left one, right one on
my ankles. You know like crucifixion style.
But I wasn't on a cross. I was hung in the air if you are
in in mid space, but it was at the edge of a, of a, of a Cliff,
a precipice if you will, like you said Gary.
So there was like, there was like a Cliff that I was hung at
the edge of. Did it feel like you were
underground like in a or was it like another open space it?
Felt like underground somewhere, but a vast, very big open space
I could actually see. And I've not, I've never been
like, you know, I don't know what you call people that
explore caves, but I know enough to know that there's that there
were like Stalag tights coming from, from the, the ceiling
areas, slag mites that grew up from the floor areas and from
different various ledges I could see in this realm.
And I mean this. Sounds like.
Go ahead. Yeah, it sounds like the opening
scene from like Thor 3, where they've got Thor hanging on
that, chains hanging over the. I love boat shows.
Yeah, right. I mean, did you see that one?
It's like he's hanging above and like the the big.
Didn't didn't see that. One with chains.
Oh, it must, dude. I don't know if he should, man.
It might send you, it might give you like.
High right? PTSD or something like that.
Flashback. Yeah, unfortunately.
So one moment you're on the street in Atlanta with your
brother. The next moment, OK, you're
hanging upside down in this darkness.
This met, but you know, you're inside a cave.
Yes. Was there any sense of time?
Did you know who you were? Like what?
What's What's the? Was your.
Memory still here. I had no sense of time.
If we want, if we want to call it time, like we know time, you
know, like minutes, hour. I, I knew, I sense at this
moment that this was an eternal realm.
So that sense of time, I had a belief in that this was an
eternal place that I was in. And there's nothing that I knew
that I met. I was, I knew that who I was, I
was Matthew Bosford. And I knew there's nothing I
could do to stop this to to, to, to save me, to Get Me Out of
there wasn't there's any, there wasn't anybody to help to call
for that, you know? Sure.
So what happens next? You're hanging there and then
what do you see? What's what's going on?
It's just like, well, I'm just stuck.
There's no one you calling for help like what's what's happens
next? Yeah, No, no calling for help.
All of a sudden I start to see out of the blackness these,
these, I call them demonic creatures.
You know, there's all sorts of different words for demons and
stuff. I don't profess to be a
theologian of any sort, but these these things would come
out of the blackness like that lightning speeds and stop right
before me. And I was hung such that like
I'm looking at you, you're looking at me.
But I was hung that way. So I wasn't upside down.
I was upright hanging. But these things would pop at me
at lightning speed and then just stop.
And they were, they would, they would, they would mock me.
They, I could tell they hated me.
They hated the fact of who I was.
When you say mock, you like they were using word like they were
making fun of like, hey, I don't like that suit or like, you know
what that. That's a while.
There's no words, but I knew it. I sensed it.
They just just probably the same way they knew to hate me for
whatever reason, they hated me. But then what was also gross was
I mean, they're close enough so that I could actually see that
they had talons on these short little grub like arm finger
things, hand things and then there and teeth too.
And it at that moment or in this period of time, it seemed like
there was stuff hanging in their teeth.
OK, and then I'm hanging there and then all of a sudden,
whatever, one or two or some of them would zip around behind me
to my. So now they're on my backside
and I would feel this excruciating pain.
And I'm like, ah, so I knew. OK, So what they were doing was
with the with the fingers and maybe the teeth, I don't know.
They were they were stripping the skin off of my back, you
know, torture. So that's you know, I'm assuming
there was sure flash from other. Sure.
Don't know that that that they were consuming or something.
So you're hanging upside down and now they're starting to
torture you. Yes.
Right. And and, but you have no sense
of time. You don't know how long this is
going on for. Now.
When you look back on it now, how does it, how long do you
feel you were there for? Was this going on for, you know
what I'm? Does that make sense?
Yeah, you know, we, we, we've thought about that and trying to
put time on it and, and, and, and the best for thinking back
and recollect maybe shy of a day, like 23 hours ish.
Yeah, because there was a point. I know because you talked with
my wife a little bit some other time and she felt a disconnect
being in a different state. So, you know, we've always had a
connection, husband, wife, you know, when you're married,
there's a connection. And so she knew somehow, like
when I wasn't in this room anymore because she couldn't
feel me. Yeah, yeah.
Let's, we'll talk about, we'll talk about that too in a second.
Let's like we'll talk about what's going on with your body
in a moment while you're in this realm.
So OK at what? Tell us then.
Now, now, guide us out. You know, so this is happening.
What do you see? How does this end this story end
for you? Like what you know, take us
from. You know what I'm saying?
How does this end? How does this end like that, you
know, from this moment on, how do you get out of here, you
know? Like, well, and I and I didn't I
didn't even share about the lava flow that was burned the skin
off my legs. That's OK.
So that was whole cue about the Can I back up and just sit?
Yeah, please. No, no, no, the whole.
Thing about the edge, you had mentioned that I was maybe at
Well, yeah, I was. And so this lava flow would
would come up from up and I say lava 'cause that's one, I can
call it red, red magma liquid. Something very, very hot would
cut through down towards me. Where it was going to eventually
end up is at the bottom of this pit of some sort that I was
over. Well, when it came over the
edge, some of the globules of lava, I, I, if you will, you
know, they, they would splash, you know, like when you pour, it
comes out, you get splashes. While the splashes would hit my
legs and burn off my flesh. I, I saw my own bones and I
could and, and I've never been on fire before.
Like I cannot even imagine people that have.
But that pain I felt probably was the same.
And then it like it was, it was a repeated experience because
none of my flesh would form back and burn off again, form back,
burn off again, form back. So that was a little important
part. Besides, yeah, it's all demonic
things. Yeah, man, it sounds like it's
all pain it. All sucks.
It all sucks. All loneliness.
As if getting shot in the back of the head wasn't bad enough,
yeah, the next moment you wake up, you're hanging upside down
by change, you're getting your legs burned off with lava, and
you got creatures of some sort ripping your skin off.
This is all terrible news. Great.
This is not. Yes, this is not exactly what
you were hoping for. No.
For your business trip to Atlanta.
No. This is the.
It's OK. So we're just.
Planning for the Convention. You know you.
Know get a game plan together. The worst thing was that the
convention would have been boring and you would have fallen
asleep in the room. But instead you're.
This is where you wind up, Yeah. Yeah, right.
So. So then what?
What happens from there? So then we're, you know, take us
through it. What what happens with, and this
is the wonderful part is what happens from there was like I
said, it was all black in there, even though I could see these,
these demons of some sort, but above me there was.
Oh, the best way to explain it is, you know, if you took like
a, a black garbage bag, you know, plastic and started and,
and, and tried to push your finger through it.
It was like this. I started to see this
protrubants from above me and I'm reaching, I'm out of the
camera, but I'm reaching up because this protrubants was
pushing in from the outside. And then all of a sudden it, it
pierced the, the, the the bag, if you will, And I saw it was a
it was a hand like my hand, your hand, a man's hand, a hand,
human hand and cracked creviced. You know, if I were, if I were
to use like a Christianese term, like ancient a days like this
hands, I could tell had been around a long time, like for
and, but I never felt any fear from this hand.
And then it started to descend towards me and it brought
brilliant what brilliant light, shiny white feathers.
And I heard this orchestral music start to play, which was
so comforting. And the hand came down to a
point where and the, and the best thing I can liken it to is
anybody saying the old King Kong with Faye Dunaway, is it how big
his hand was and grabbed her around the waist, you know, and,
and grabbed her. That's that, that's exactly what
happened. This hand grabbed me around the
waist. Shackles fell off.
All the demonics, the, the things I was seeing that were
torturing me all fled. And then then I heard this voice
and it was like, it was like many things mixed together.
A clap of bolt, a lightning clap of Thunder, Niagara Falls all
mixed together. And it simply said, it's not
your time. And then I was just, I felt this
upward lifting out of there and, and then all pain, all the pain
was gone. And then I I probably at that
point is when I spent the month in a coma.
So OK. So.
You didn't. Just you.
You didn't. Just as you look back on this
time, you didn't wake up at that moment.
No. So you were, you were, you
remember that well afterwards, but you'd like everything.
So then it was, then it was basically.
You don't know what was next. You just know there was a
there's time or something. There's space between that hand
pulling you out of there and then opening your eyes again.
Yeah, 27 days later, right? Wow.
Now, Matt, why do you you know, and we're going to get into sort
of the everything that you saw here.
So just to remind the audience at this moment, Matt, so you get
shot on the sidewalk, you're in the ambulance, you flatlined.
Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was told that flat lined
quite a few times. Right.
And. Then brought me back back raced
to the hospital. You lost a friend right to
another stray bullet that actually took a friend's life.
Your brother's with you, your wife had to fly out.
You're in the hospital. And then again you were in a
coma for for almost a month afterwards.
And the recovery was brutal to get back and then these, these
images and everything you sort of as you were putting a pieces
together came back. Correct.
So, you know, people who talk about near death experiences
would would say what you have is a distressed near death
experience and who you went to. You know, you had a dark moment.
Why? Have you ever asked yourself why
you think that's where you were sent in that moment?
Well, I think it had everything to do and and this and this is
from my my perspective now sure. I think it had everything to do
with I did not know the Son of God and by by his mercy.
I didn't stay there. Prayers of old prayers for my
wife. I don't know.
I don't. I can't answer that one for.
Sure. But I guarantee you that's why I
experienced that. OK, Yeah.
All right. So now when you look back on it
and like we like to ask every all of our guests on this on
splintered spirits. So what do you think?
First and foremost, you know, do you believe in ghosts?
And what do you think spirits are?
That's, that's a funny word, Ghosts.
I definitely believe in spirits. OK, what do you think they are?
Well, I think there's there's there's ones with a good
assignment and that are spirits with not a good assignment.
Define what do you mean by assignment?
You so well. I believe, I believe, I believe
we have a God that created everything.
You know, I don't believe that there's no monkeys.
No. Anyway, I believe that it's God
that created everything and there is good and evil and then
he has angels and spirits that that are, that are here to help
us. But then you also had the fall
of, of, of Lucifer, which was his worshipper.
And so he's got his own people, if you want to call them two
spiritual helpers or those that carry out his plan rather than
the God's plan of redemption, which is based on love.
So do you believe, is it fair to say do you believe that spirits
are non human energies or entities?
That's a good question. Because he, like you inside of
you, have a spirit. So.
Yeah, right. So does that mean?
It's a human spirit. Well, yeah, I would just for
practice, for for purposes of this conversation, I would say
like, yes, like whatever's inside me would be a human
spirit. If I somehow if I pass and
somehow like I you saw me in a vision or I I came and visited
you as my quote UN quote ghost, that would be a human spirit.
So do you believe that exists alongside these other spirits
that are possibly have a non human origin?
Wow. There's a lot of viewpoints on
this. There's no wrong answer, it's
just you know what I mean. It's like.
There's no wrong answer because there's no way to, you know what
I mean. It's just I want to know based
on your experience, because you have such a unique one.
Have you ever thought about that?
Like, you know, what would you think?
Do you think that is sort of a, you know, forget about the
vernacular or the semantics of it?
Is that, is that sort of a something you would?
How would you think about that? I would have to say yeah, there
is. Right, right.
So OK, that makes it right. There's there's certain
creatures that are non human origin or spirits like the ones
that you experienced ripping off you like would you say like
would you ever look back and think like those were once human
or the ones that were torturing you?
Or could those have been something else?
I think they would have. They would be more classified as
not human, but fallen angels, you know what I mean?
The ones the ones that have evil intent that God said now you
guys can't be in heaven anymore. This isn't going to work.
What it was just like, you know what, like Lucifer is not going
to work. So gone.
But then Lucifer took a whole bunch of guys with him, right?
So. Do you so in the hand that
grabbed you, do you believe that that hand is a single divine
presence or could it have been a collective consciousness of of
spirit of, you know, pulling you out when?
You. I believe it was.
I believe it was 1. I believe it was our our only
creator for the capital C. OK, OK, so and, and this whole
experience, when you look at your experience, do you believe
that that that was hell? Yes.
That is what that was hell and it OK and that.
Was and there was no love there, void of anything good.
So that that's hell. Got it.
That's right. That, that completely that
answers my next question for us, right.
So that was you felt you could feel the emptiness of it of that
conscience. Got it.
So what do you think then happens to us when we pass?
What do you think the spirit is in a person?
So that if you've ever watched it like a paranormal show or a
ghost show, right? You know, and they're and you
hear or people have spirit boxes and they and they hear, you
know, spirits talk to them or they record a voice.
What is how did that happen? How do you think that happens?
I'm not sure. That's nobody.
Sure. That's why it's fun to think.
It's fun to talk about what we think.
Nobody. Sure, Matt.
That's just like, you know, because my, my father passed and
I believe there's been a couple of times where I've seen him
and, and my brother has seen him.
Like seeing him, seeing him, you know, we were trying to get a
grill that one day and it was my dad's, his dad's dad's old
grill. And he, he, he told my brother,
he's like, you got to do this. And Johnny was like, what he
well, he came back and he's like bro to me.
He's like, dad was just out there.
I'm like, I believe it so. Now, OK, so let's take it.
Let's take it a step. Like, you know you, you've
experienced something. You've experienced something.
You know where you've gone to another place.
Yes, for sure. Your energy went to another
place. So why?
How do you think your father appeared to your brother in that
moment? What do you think that is?
I, I, I believe that that people up there, IE in heaven that have
passed on maybe are given an opportunity to peer in on their
loved ones from time to time. Sure, that'd be my guess.
Do you think there's any? Do you believe in?
Do you believe when people talk about ghosts in the sense of,
oh, they have unfinished business and they're trapped
here or something? Do you believe in any of that?
I don't know. I don't.
I don't know about that. I don't think so.
OK. I don't think that'd be more
like, oh, not like a purgatory thing or something.
I don't know. I don't know.
Nobody knows. Again, no, nobody knows.
There's no wrong answer. You only have to go by what
you're but what you how you've experienced something and and
sort of how does that? Let me, let me ask you this way.
What before this incident for you, right?
What would you have said? How do you think you would have
answered this question? What do you think happens when
you die? I probably would have just said
you go to heaven. Right.
And now when you think about what happens when you die, how
does that answer change? There, there's some
qualifications and it's not just being, it's not just being a
good person because I was a good person.
I love people. I was doing good things, but I
don't think God was lying when he said you need to know my son
or Jesus said, you know, the only way the Father is through
me, whatever scripture that is. I think he was not lying like
he's, he's telling the truth. Well, that's a, that's a big,
that's a big. Yeah, that changed big time.
Let me ask you this, if someone from a different faith, yeah, or
no faith, right, had the same experience that you had, how do
you think they would interpret it?
If, if, if someone live, if someone went through this, what
you experienced, do you think you know what?
What do you think? How would they describe what it
was if not if it wasn't a religious without having the
religious lens on it? I don't know, I mean, because
that's that's how people all of a sudden had no belief or or
anything change. So, you know, you know what I
mean. Things like this change people.
You think it would You think, you think.
I think they did that that their whatever their view before may
change. Got it right.
So that they're that's they would, they would, they would
all of a sudden turn to it. You've said you've said you
don't regret what happened, which I find remarkable.
No, I don't. We lost a lot.
But what we've gained, you can only go.
You can only gain sometimes, but through a loss, you know, as
long as you're not, as long as you don't stay with a defeatist
attitude like, oh, you know the crap that sucks.
Life's over so. What's been the what's been the
biggest loss? Were you able to go back to work
at some point or did you change everything?
Nope, we had to change everything.
I tried that, didn't work. Too much brain injury.
Got it. Yeah, got it, got it, got.
It, well, it tends to rearrange some things in there.
Oh man, it was, it was a hard recovery is what you're saying.
Yeah. And there are how long did it
take? How long did it take you to to
like, sort of really get back on your feet where you can, you
know, have some semblance of normalcy?
Well, many years. Many years.
Oh, wow. And it would have been possible
if I didn't have my wife by my side.
I'll tell you, she decided. No, she's a St.
She, yeah, she decided to stay early on in the injury and yeah.
Hold on. So I'm just I'm just looking
through my I want to see what I want to ask you, OK, when you
first woke up now. Yeah.
It's, I mean, can you even remember the moment you woke up
or is that take even some? Time.
I remember it very vividly. Oh, it's horrible.
Oh, really? It was horrible.
I mean, I love watching these movies and somebody comes out of
a coma and they're like celebrating, you know, I'm
laying there, one of my arms is tied down in the bed.
I'm looking around the room and I don't know where I am, but you
come, you come to the conclusion very fast.
You're in the hospital. But then I see all these
birthday cards and well, 'cause I had a birthday when I was in
the coma, April, you know, April and, and my body hurt my last,
oh gosh, a whole ton of weight. I think when I went before I got
shot I was whatever 15160 and and I'm laying there weighing
90. Well, how did you?
But you didn't know you weighed less at that moment when you
first No, no. That takes a minute.
I could tell I I hurt everything in my body hurt hole in my leg.
So that means you can't talk. Oh wow.
From from from the the ventilator.
Who was the first person you saw?
Was it a nurse? A doctor?
Your wife? What was the first face you
remember? The first face you saw.
Remember the first hand? That was my wife's.
I was playing with her wedding ring.
Got it. Interesting.
Yeah. And then how long did it take
for this memory of your experience to come back?
When did that come in? The the details were a few years
later, we had to go down to the hospital for a neurological
review or something like that. And then after seeing the
hospital, apparently that open up floodgates.
And one morning I woke up and all this memory sort of all the
sort of flood come back to me in a flood.
I'm like for what? It scared the crap out of me.
I could barely talk could I couldn't even.
I want to tell my wife what I just saw and I was so pale.
She just stared at me. She's like what?
And I'm like, it took me quite a while to be able to tell her
what I saw. Right.
And now your wife's obviously a big, a big role in your life
here and what she did, you know, she was sitting by her side.
She was praying for you and for your recovery and to get and get
you back. Do you think, how would you, do
you think there's we can talk about it as a power of prayer or
a connection of consciousness? What do you think is do you one,
do you think there was a connection there between what
she was doing to help get you back?
Absolutely. And and you do think so I do and
now and and do you think there? What do you think it is?
What do you think that connection is?
Is it is it just the power of prayer?
Is it is it an energy because we all have energy inside us?
How would you describe? It I think it's a power of
prayer, but also it's a covenant between her and I as as husband
and wife that she was honoring, you know, like the vows to to
death do his part. Well, she's like, no, no.
God, technically, technically you flat lined.
She could have split. He's like, my, my, my contract's
up. Yeah, you know, expired, right?
You know what I mean? It's like, it's like he flat
lined once. It's like, Yep, I'm out.
But she's stuck with it. She's going beyond the contract.
Expired. Yeah, that was crazy anyway, but
yes. Right.
Power prayer, covenant, Covenantal keeping right God and
then God somehow honored her prayer and I'm I'm I'm happy and
blessed that she did you know, and her mom probably you know,
there was others praying, but oh, definitely the prayer.
What do you think is our connection to these spirits?
Is it emotional energy? Is it fear?
Is it love? Is it faith?
What is it that that attracts them to us or connects us to
that? I I think first it's faith and
and then love. So that's an emotional
connection. Yeah.
Is faith an emotion? Well, love is, I mean.
Love is. Love is faith is a belief.
Yes. Right.
A strong belief, you know. So love is an emotional thing,
do you think You know, does fear play any role in there?
Probably. In this in in sort of their
attraction to or their draw to you in that moment.
What do you think it was? What do you think it was that
when you were when you look back on at that, why do you think
they hated you? You said earlier, right, They
hated you What is it about you that they hate you?
I. Think they, well, I think they
hated that I had love in my heart and I and I had goodness
in my body, in my soul. OK.
And they hated that. Have you ever felt even remotely
that same dark energy since your recovery?
No. Have you ever been afraid of
something that that has taken you close to that or watching
you or lurking or any of that? No, no, never.
Unfortunately. Thank God no.
OK, no, it was a one off. It was a one off done.
Right. It's interesting, man.
It's like, what would you tell? What would you tell people then
in terms of do you think that first of all, you said you were
a good, you know, you're a good person and you are, Yeah.
Do you think you know? It seems it seems unfair.
Have you ever asked God like why?
Why did you may put me through this?
You know what? I've asked that, but not really
on my behalf. But I've wondered for others.
What do you? Mean for other, I mean, because
I, I, I really believe the fact that I didn't know his son was
the reason why I experienced what I experienced.
So I know there's a lot of people out there that do not
know Godson Jesus. I've been concerned or you know
that I pray for that a lot of times, you know what about them?
So, oh, OK, I see what you're saying.
So you're, you're wondering you're you're OK, but how do I
ask this admit. So it's a this happened to you
somewhat unjustly. So yeah, it feels like it could
happen to anybody who's a good person or a bad person.
If that happens to a good person, what do you think is
going to happen to a bad person? Right, Right.
They're probably, they're probably.
Yeah, I found something. No guard.
Right. So how you know, how could you
know? Is that, is that the is that a
way? Do you feel that that's a
fairway to learn that lesson? It's about about Jesus in your.
Heart. I would rather have done it some
other way. Right, right.
Yeah, I can imagine that's. But that's one of the big
reasons why, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't replay this at all.
I mean, it's what it was. And right it could it have been
a mistake? Maybe there's another Matthew
Boxford that they just got mixed up in the.
Books, I know there's there's other ones.
I was when they coach volleyball and basketball, I'm like, that's
not me. Right, but maybe they're the
ones who they had on the list to get to go to the wrong.
Spot. You mean like Santa?
Like a naughty list? Like Santa?
Yeah, Yeah, they just got you mixed up with somebody else to
put you through that. You could do you could do a show
like that, right? But the great mix up.
The great mix of this is the greatest mix up in history.
Yeah, hey, what's in your bag? Matt, have you ever talked to
anyone else with other experiences like yours?
Have you ever gone on like, you know, do a group or like anybody
else who's had near death experiences in this fashion?
I've talked to some and they're all and we're all they're we're
all. It's all seems similar in great.
Detail. Does everyone approach it from
a, you know, a religious angle that they feel like this is the
hand of God or this is the. Yeah, it seems, it seems to be
like you had mentioned, you know, somebody of another faith
comes through a similar experience.
How will they interpret it? Well, it's, it's the experience
that you go through that creates your interpretation.
And so it ends up coming around to the same kind of conclusion.
Can you think of a story or, or someone else that you've spoken
to that has a similar experience but was was very, you know,
similar but different in the sense that they experienced the
hand of God in a different way than you did?
It wasn't so violent. I'm trying to think.
I'm trying to remember. I don't think so.
On the on the the moment, I
don't think I can. Got it.
Have you had any other, have you ever had any other experiences,
maybe obviously not so violent, but or like not just seeing your
dad, but other moments in your life since the event or prior to
the event that felt supernatural or otherworldly?
I think back, I mean it doesn't, it doesn't really.
I mean, each morning I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll get up, I, I try to
get up usually when like around sunrise because I like, begin
the day like that. I'm a morning person rather than
a night person. But I'll sit there and I mean,
meaning I'll sit there and something, you can call them
devotions or whatever. I don't know if this is going to
answer your question or not, but I guess it's best I got and,
and, and I and I will sit there and I'll say, all right, God,
what's going on? What you got?
What what's today, you know, and I'm and I always have a coffee,
be drinking coffee and I'll sit there and if I am quiet long
enough, eventually I can feel and I and I and it's the Holy
Spirit. I can feel that supernatural
presence in the room. I don't know if that's an
answer. So it certainly is an answer.
Do you feel a connection when you meet new people at all?
Do you feel any sort of sometimes difference in energy
or vibes? I mean, we all do.
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes that's sometimes if I, I meet a
certain person, be like, uh huh, You've got an understanding.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's like an intuition.
What do you think about mediums? Do you believe in people like
that that can you know I have the ability to?
I think I think they can. Have you ever sat with one?
No been on a show with one but I've never sat with one.
Got it. Did they ever?
Did they give you a reading that you that you did you believe in
it? Never actually had a reading
from 1:00. Got it.
It's funny. It's funny how the any the I
won't say any name or name with the last 1.
I actually saw how they tried to keep eye contact with me but had
difficulty. I'm like, what's that about?
What'd they say? I don't know.
Maybe they do you think maybe you still have some sort of a
connection like a mark, you know, a spiritual mark from
having been through what you've been through, right?
It's like getting did you get the last rights?
Do what? Did you get the last rights when
you were in the hospital? I don't know that.
Because first of all, I believe, firmly believe getting the last
rights and living is totally awesome in metal.
It might be the coolest, it's the coolest, It's might be the
coolest thing ever. It's you know, I've got AI think
it's, you know, big that I was raised Catholic.
You know, for the the seven sacraments that there are, I
believe I've gotten pretty much all of them except for the last
rites and then vocation. I'm not going to become a priest
anytime soon, but I would enjoy getting the last rites.
But living. And I'm wondering, you know,
because it's like, how cool is it?
It's like, yeah, man, I got the last rites, but I'm still
standing. I'm here.
I'm standing right here talking to you, bro.
I'm. Standing right here, it's the
most bad ass thing I think you can do.
I don't know why. I don't have any idea.
I know that's a question I I'll ask somebody else that was
cognizant of reality rather than me being somewhere.
Else, yeah, yeah, that's a good question.
And I wonder we're in the timeline that falls.
Right. You know what I mean?
Could there be a? Is there a connection?
Yeah. With the with when you receive
that versus when that hand came down and sort of whatever how
far how long after you woke up yeah was that was the last rites
there's. A lot of questions.
I don't know if we're going to, I don't know if I'll ever get
those kind of answers, but I got a lot of.
Questions. No.
Yeah. It's been a while.
This happened in 92, right?
Yes. Have you ever gone back to that
restaurant and give them a give them a bad Yelp review?
Like food? Food was great, Food was great,
But the bullets afterward, the dessert was not so great.
Your your Rd. service poo poo. Right now.
Now. Your drive through.
Skip it. Skip the drive through man.
No drive by shootings. Oh my goodness, that's.
That's bad humor. No, no, it's OK.
We're we're we got to keep it light, man, we can't sit here
and talk about, you know, you have a you have a a wonderful
redemption story. You know that is so it's like if
we can't keep it light after the the horrific sort of experience
you. Had it goes.
I think it goes to show that, you know, you can be really far
gone and still may not be done with your with your life.
I mean, not even in a spiritual standpoint.
I mean, there's some people that are having hard times, you know,
like hard times, you know, can't get any food.
You know what I'm saying? No home.
That's hard. Yeah.
I don't know what that's like. Thank God.
Right. It could always be worse, sort
of what you're saying for sure. And what you went through was
sort of in a, would you call it an awakening?
Do you feel it's that much of an experience, like in a
difference? Well, OK, an awakening.
I don't know technically what that would be defined as, but.
Neither do I I'm. Just this, this definitely would
be considered an awakening in my life.
Yeah. It changed a lot of ways that we
live for sure. Oh wow.
Yeah, that doesn't mean we're, that doesn't mean we're
insurance 365 days a year. But right it definitely it it,
it shows us where our belief is or should be.
Matt, let me ask you a question. If you, if this happened again,
like, you know, God forbid it happened again, you woke up and
you were on those chains again. What do you what do you think
you would do that that next time?
What would you tell yourself? Like I know exactly how to get
out of this or this is, you know.
Well, I, I think probably if it happened again, I would actually
have the name of Jesus in my mouth and I would and I would
holler his name and then that's probably would hopefully end it
all. But you don't think you'd be
like, wait a minute, damn it, I just spent probably my whole
life, this is unfair. Like would there be any sort of?
Probably if, if I could, I mean, under that kind of duress,
there's not much. You're you, you know what I'm
saying? You're not like, I mean, like I
said, I would hope now that I have relationship with God's Son
that maybe I could have it in me to holler for help for from Him.
Right, right, right. That'd be the only thing I could
think. Sure.
Do you? Well, I was going to ask you
wait, there was one in in that moment.
Just I lost it for a second. It was a so you know, I look at
your story and for for some people who have distressed near
death experiences, right, it's almost like it's oddly that they
got scared straight for real, right, For but you know, and it
was, you know, like remember the old scared straights show?
He'd said he'd send him to prison.
And it's like, hopefully this will turn.
Your life around. Right.
That was scary. Do you ever think that the but
you know, this is a little bit of A twist on things.
Is is it? Do you ever think of the fact
that you go to this horrible place?
But it was that what what made you, what pushed you in the
direction that you wanted to live your life wasn't
necessarily Jesus, but it was the evil that you saw that that
sent you to a better spot. Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah. It was like, who got you to live
a better life? Was it Jesus that got you to
live a better life? Or was it the devil that got you
to live a better life? Right, that's quite a quote.
That's a that's a conundrum. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Is it?
You know it's.
A yeah, it's a lot. It's like scared straight, yeah.
You know, and, and I'm, I'm just sure, what do you think about
that? What, what, what do?
You. I think what?
What? When the hand rescued me, I felt
so much love. And there's no way that dark
side could provide that kind of love.
I guarantee you that. But by experiencing that dark
side, if you will, it sure is a good it sure was a good kick off
towards the other side, but the hand.
Yeah. No, no, I, I look at it
sometimes, You know, we all have this impression of the devil,
right? And it's, and I'm not, I'm not
sitting here promoting the devil in any way or any of that is I
don't, I don't really care what, what people do or what they
believe in, in I'm, I'm open minded, but I wonder if it's
more of a good cop, bad cop situation.
Do you know, to get you to the same place?
Because you know, if you look at the devil, some of the, the,
the, really the, the devil's biggest presence in the Bible is
actually in the book of Job, right?
And his presence there is not one of he and God are having a
conversation. They're like playing a game.
It's basically trading spaces. If you ever saw that movie where
it's just, you know, like, hey, let's test this guy.
All right, Well, I'm going to push him this way and see if he
really does. You know, it's a bet.
They're not this. They're not, you know, and
people always think like, no, this guy's super bad and this
guy's super this. And it's, and I wonder because
you've now you, you've you've, you're a good person to begin,
but now you've pushed yourself into even in a more, you know,
it's what you believe in a more holier life and A and a more, if
you've got even further in that. But it wasn't just by living a
good life. You, it was almost like this
evil side pushed you towards it. And I want, you know, I just, I
always wonder what people think of that, you know, in terms of,
huh, is there a, is there a bigger game plan there that we
don't know about if that is the way to go?
That that's the that you're talking about the master chess
game now? Yeah, I don't know.
Have you ever thought about it? Not, no.
Not until you mention it. No, Never.
I've only ever thought about the hand that received me.
Got it. Not the hand that put that
right, Not the situation that. Not not that.
Yeah, Well, of course I've thought, you know, and, and I
and I love this because 'cause people ask me.
So are you plagued by these memories?
And by the grace of God, I'm not.
I talk about them. And then when I'm done talking
about them, it's gone. It's not there, right?
And I'm very, very thankful for that 'cause they give me.
They'd be some horrifying nightmares.
Yeah, I mean, that is. Your story is the epitome of
Dante's Inferno of Hell. Right.
I mean it is the the. Straight up, you know, textbook
horrific experience that nobody wants.
And you sort of came out of it with a better outlook or a, an
outlook that works for you and your wife and it built a
stronger relationship. And it, it's like all of these
things with your family and with your wife and it's all, it all
turned for the better. Yeah, despite the horrible
nature and then what it did to you physically and, and, and the
suffering that it caused, which is wild.
I mean, it is. I wish, I wish he'd give me the
provision that he gave. Job though he blessed with.
He took everything from him and then he gave him back like well
like 7 times more or something. Provisions, right?
It was quite the IT was quite the game.
Quite the game. Quite the game.
I could have used that. I could have used that.
Yeah, yeah, Joe didn't get a medical bill at the end of the
day. No, no, I could definitely.
I don't know if myself would like sheep though.
Not the pass on the sheep. Right.
Oh man, that's funny, Matt. It like it's a great it's do you
ever, do you ever, do you ever watch the ghost shows or the
paranormal shows? I don't I love, I love sci-fi
shows, but I don't really watch the the the let's see what what
was it remember the movie X-Files with Mulder and.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that considered?
That's a yeah, that's a paranormal thing.
That's a, you know, a fictional show about the power of the.
Original when that was played, when that first came out, we
loved it. We watched it all the time.
Sure. And it begs, you know, it gives
you both sides. It makes you sort of wonder what
is, what is there, what isn't there?
How can you be unexplained and all of and all of these things.
I, you know, look, I come in all this stuff from a, from a
perspective of, you know, just trying to, I look at everybody's
experience as a, a piece to a bigger picture, right, of what
the, what is what may be the answer?
It's a giant mosaic in my head right now, right?
All these different angles of what are spirits and what is it
that we're told what is what is happening.
I think there is a I've had, I got a reading from a medium.
I found it wild. You know, I, I care for the life
of me figure out how she may have known certain things.
I believe there is a. I believe people have intuition,
right? Like everybody has an intuition.
My wife's My wife's big big, big time intuitive.
Right and it and I and some people have it in the same way I
compared to sports a lot, right. Some people can throw a baseball
at 98 miles an hour and some people can't.
And I think intuition is another muscle that, you know, we all
have a flight or a flight or fight instinct in US for some
reason, right. I don't know why that kicks in
and yet why can't that then be so strengthened to where you can
can connect to something else and what it.
But what is that something else? Is it just we all have
electrical synapses in our brain.
This is a fact that energy is something what is, but we don't
know what consciousness is. We don't know what the how the
mind works and we don't know how the what that connection is to
others and how we are connected in that way.
And it's an interesting to get a perspective from someone of you
who literally flat lined. Yes, several.
Times so several times and your energy then energy cannot be
created or destroyed. Right.
And did it? Did it?
Did some of it dissipate or transfer somewhere?
Some stayed? What happened?
Where did it go? What did you experience?
What stayed connected? Which is all and what's the
purpose of it from what you saw versus is it truly God?
Is it truly another thing? What what is that overall
consciousness, A mindset, regardless of it it it's worked
for you, it worked for your wife and it's a it's a great it's a
great story to see. What is that connection?
And Matt, look, thank you so much.
I appreciate your time today. Dude, I'm so glad you called me,
man. Yeah, when, when, when my phone
rang and it said it said Gary. My and my wife's was like, wait,
Gary, California Gary. Oh, that's sweet.
'Cause we don't you. Guys are great.
You, you guys are wonderfully open about sharing this story
and it's a, it's a great story. And I've always been a fan of,
of you and your wife and your trajectory based on what you've
gone through. And I think, you know, it makes
sense for us on splittered spirits here to talk about this
and near death experiences and what that means in this spirit
communication angle that we look at.
You know, what is that connection we have?
Well, I love that. I love the title of your show.
I didn't realize the title of the show until I got the thing.
You know the the. I'm.
Like, oh great, perfect. We try, we try.
Respect, because that's so true, Splinter Spirits.
No, what is it, you know, what, what, what breaks off, what is
connected, what stays connected. And yeah, you get it, you get
it. That's the fun.
We're trying to that's, and we're trying to do it from a,
from a place of fun and, and, and curiosity and staying
curious and staying understanding and staying open,
you know, and, and that's why we, you know, that's just kind
of where we're, we're looking at, at everything from, you
know, Matt, it's, it's, that's just the place we want to stay.
What's next for you before we just say goodbye?
Is it like, you know, I know your, your wife wrote a book
recently and is there anything you want to tell everybody?
You know what's? Yeah, she wrote.
She wrote a book. Well, like you were talking
about the time, so she entitled it A Day in Hell, but the
rewrite, she wrote it once and then she felt inclined to
rewrite it again and make it shorter and more concise.
And the, and the rewrite is awesome.
It's yeah, it's more hopeful. It's got all the details, but
yet it's a day in hell, tragedy to triumph.
And so the the subtitle is what the the book is full of hope,
and it's the story, but it's full of hope.
Is it the, is it, is it the just to be clear, is it the story of
from her perspective of what happened to you?
It's, it's both, I mean, because she's got what I told you about
what I experienced in it, but it's also got more of what she
experienced in it too. Yes, she had quite the
experiences in the hospital and things like that.
Praying for me. So that's in the book.
All right, well, we'll have to do this.
The good thing about this is we'll have to have a follow up
episode then and have it from her perspective.
Yeah, she's the Bombo. Yes, take, take her take and get
her tail, you know, and see how those two line up.
Matt, thank you so much. I appreciate you.
I appreciate your time. Thanks, Gary.
Have a wonderful holiday season, yeah?
Oh, wow. Right.
Yeah. Right.
We're rolling into it, man. Fast.
We're rolling into it. Thanks, Matt.
Thanks, Gary. Bye.
Well, that's it for another episode of Splintered Spirits.
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Until next time, stay curious.