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Have you ever gone back to that 
restaurant and give them a give 

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them a bad Yelp review? 
Like food? 

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Food was great, food was great, 
but the bullets afterward, the 

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dessert was not so great. 
Your your Rd. service. 

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Welcome to Splintered Spirits. 
I'm your host Gary and along 

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with my nephew John Santa from 
Santa Paranormal, we explore 

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spirit communication to try and 
answer the question, what are 

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spirits? 
Our guest today, Matthew 

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Botsford, has a story that 
challenges everything we think 

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we know about life, death and 
what might come after. 

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In 1992, Matthew was standing 
outside a restaurant in Atlanta 

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when a stray bullet struck him 
in the head. 

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Matt died, DED, dead. 
A true flatline. 

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We've all heard of near death 
experiences. 

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The person has an accident, sees
the light or their grandma 

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glowing with wings, and then 
wakes up with a new outlook on 

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life. 
But what followed for Matthew 

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wasn't light or peace, it was 
torment. 

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Matthew had what's called a 
distressed near death 

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experience, and it happens to an
unfortunate select few. 

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Matthew says he awoke in a dark,
cavernous place, surrounded by 

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twisted creatures and unbearable
pain. 

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He calls it hell, but that's not
where his story ends. 

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After 27 days in a coma and a 
miraculous recovery, Matthew 

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came back convinced that what he
experienced was real and that it

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revealed something profound 
about the human spirit, 

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consciousness, and the power of 
love to pull us back from the 

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edge. 
We're going to explore what 

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Matthew saw, what he believes 
spirits are, and how his brush 

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with the afterlife reshaped his 
understanding of everything. 

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Let's dive into the 
conversation. 

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Matthew, it's good to see you. 
Welcome to splintered spirits. 

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Gary, thank you. 
Good to be here, man. 

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Yeah, man, it's good. 
It's where. 

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Where are we finding you today? 
Where? 

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Where are you from, Matthew? 
St. 

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Augustine, FL. 
Oh, and you're and it's I see 

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you're wearing a sweater. 
It's a yes, long pant. 

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Sweater, not Saint Augustine 
normal outfits. 

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We're just cold today and then 
we get nice and warm tomorrow 

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and we warm up back into our 70s
come the weekend. 

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So that's called Florida. 
How long you been living there? 

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We've been here, let's see, five
years, I think. 

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Where were you before that? 
Saint Simons Island. 

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Got it, got it, got it. 
Georgia. 

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That's right. 
Well, Matt, you've got the, the 

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reason why I talked to you today
is because you have a, a very 

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interesting perspective and a 
unique experience into this 

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question that we always ask on 
splintered spirits, which is 

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what are spirits, you know, and 
as we talk about the paranormal 

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and spirit communication. 
So before we get into the 

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spiritual side of things, I 
would love if you could just 

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walk us through that night 
again, from the moment you, you 

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know, from the moment you were 
first shot to the first moment 

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you realized you were somewhere 
else. 

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Yeah, like you said, Gary, back 
in 92, waiting for a taxi on a 

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business trip, there was some 
gentlemen outside, did not know 

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this, drunk, intoxicated, 
carrying 9mm Uzis and took a 

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shot up like 50 yards behind me.
So I caught a bullet in the top 

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of my head. 
Didn't know it at the time, but 

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when I felt was like this 
searingly hot, like if you took 

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a hypodermic needle and heated 
it up, you know, in a flame and 

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then just punched it in the top 
of your head and I'm coming out 

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of the camera, but punch it in 
the top. 

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It was in the top right side of 
my head. 

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And so the bullet came in and it
was incredibly painful. 

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And it was, it was an 
instantaneous thing, Gary. 

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I mean, from from I went from 
begin who I knew I was, you 

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know, my body, you know, 
existing in this world as we 

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know it. 
So all of a sudden coming into 

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this other place where black, 
cold, no, no human life was 

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there, but it was filled with 
one. 

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It was filled with other things,
other spirits, if you will, 

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demons. 
They were very evil where I 

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went. 
So you were on a business trip? 

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Yes, Sir. 
And what would you say? 

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Like, you know how, what was 
your life like before this 

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incident happened? 
Were you like a big partier 

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Matt? 
Like what was the what was the 

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lifestyle like for Matthew 
Botsford before this incident? 

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No, Matthew Botsford was a 
really good guy, newly married, 

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and you know, I was all about 
working hard in a family 

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business in order to make a good
living, to take care of my 

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family. 
But I was a good person, you 

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know what I mean? 
Not like a party or no, not like

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that at all. 
Cared about people, love people,

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love my family. 
So that was my goal, you know? 

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Were you as because you're quite
religious now? 

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Now I am yes. 
Were you as religious before? 

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Would you say no? 
No. 

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Were you practicing? 
I believe that there was a God 

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before OK, but I never knew his 
son. 

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If you will to have a better 
relate to have a actual 

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relationship with God. 
I did not know Jesus. 

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That all changed after this 
whole experience. 

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What? 
What denomination would you say 

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you are? 
Non, non, non denomination 

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Christian. 
Christian OK, so you were so 

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before the incident. 
You're, you're, you're, you're 

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raised Christian, right? 
Your family. 

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But did you go to church every 
Sunday? 

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Did you do that kind of thing? 
No, Maybe on a Christmas or a 

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holiday. 
Yeah, right. 

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You were a holiday, right? 
I get it for sure. 

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I don't. 
I don't know what you caught. 

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There's a word for that. 
I I think, yeah, I know there is

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there is a sort of a funny look.
I went to I was raised Catholic.

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I went to Catholic school for 
like, you know, till 8th grade. 

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So and then I know I know 
exactly what you're talking 

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about. 
Those just those holiday, the 

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holiday goers. 
You know what? 

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God, there is a name for that. 
I got to look that up. 

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Yeah, there, isn't it? 
Yeah, it's eluding. 

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Me right now. 
So right mate? 

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So you're working and it's a 
family business. 

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You're on this trip with your 
brother, Yes, you get shot. 

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You get shot in the head. 
Yes. 

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And then it it's it is now when 
you look back upon it, it was 

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almost immediate that you were 
then. 

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Yeah, it was, it was, it was an 
immediate thing whereby I was no

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longer in this realm, 
experiencing people in this 

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realm, but dying on a sidewalk. 
And I was immediately 

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transported into this other 
side, this other world full of 

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horrible creatures. 
Now, yes, I want to hear, I want

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right before you tell me that 
these about these creatures 

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which I want to get into. 
Did you feel at any moment that 

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this was a dream? 
I did not. 

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I did not ever feel it was an 
illusion. 

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I. 
Agree. 

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No, it was. 
So. 

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Pure reality. 
So tell me, when did you so 

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you're there and were you so to 
go ahead and now get into it, 

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man. 
Like let's hear it. 

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So you're you're you're in this 
blackness. 

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Describe the scene. 
Where are you? 

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What are you doing? 
The the best I can describe 

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where I was at is like a a 
bottomless pit. 

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There was no end to the. 
I couldn't see the ends. 

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You know what? 
You know what I mean? 

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Were you standing on the edge of
like a Cliff or something? 

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No, I was actually hung down on 
the edge of a Cliff crucifixion 

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style, like with chains on my 
wrists, left one, right one on 

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my ankles. 
You know like crucifixion style.

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But I wasn't on a cross. 
I was hung in the air if you are

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in in mid space, but it was at 
the edge of a, of a, of a Cliff,

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a precipice if you will, like 
you said Gary. 

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So there was like, there was 
like a Cliff that I was hung at 

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the edge of. 
Did it feel like you were 

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underground like in a or was it 
like another open space it? 

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Felt like underground somewhere,
but a vast, very big open space 

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I could actually see. 
And I've not, I've never been 

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like, you know, I don't know 
what you call people that 

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explore caves, but I know enough
to know that there's that there 

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were like Stalag tights coming 
from, from the, the ceiling 

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areas, slag mites that grew up 
from the floor areas and from 

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different various ledges I could
see in this realm. 

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And I mean this. 
Sounds like. 

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Go ahead. 
Yeah, it sounds like the opening

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scene from like Thor 3, where 
they've got Thor hanging on 

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that, chains hanging over the. 
I love boat shows. 

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Yeah, right. 
I mean, did you see that one? 

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It's like he's hanging above and
like the the big. 

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Didn't didn't see that. 
One with chains. 

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Oh, it must, dude. 
I don't know if he should, man. 

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It might send you, it might give
you like. 

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High right? 
PTSD or something like that. 

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Flashback. 
Yeah, unfortunately. 

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So one moment you're on the 
street in Atlanta with your 

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brother. 
The next moment, OK, you're 

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hanging upside down in this 
darkness. 

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This met, but you know, you're 
inside a cave. 

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Yes. 
Was there any sense of time? 

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Did you know who you were? 
Like what? 

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What's What's the? 
Was your. 

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Memory still here. 
I had no sense of time. 

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If we want, if we want to call 
it time, like we know time, you 

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know, like minutes, hour. 
I, I knew, I sense at this 

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moment that this was an eternal 
realm. 

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So that sense of time, I had a 
belief in that this was an 

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eternal place that I was in. 
And there's nothing that I knew 

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that I met. 
I was, I knew that who I was, I 

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was Matthew Bosford. 
And I knew there's nothing I 

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could do to stop this to to, to,
to save me, to Get Me Out of 

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there wasn't there's any, there 
wasn't anybody to help to call 

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for that, you know? 
Sure. 

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So what happens next? 
You're hanging there and then 

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what do you see? 
What's what's going on? 

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It's just like, well, I'm just 
stuck. 

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There's no one you calling for 
help like what's what's happens 

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next? 
Yeah, No, no calling for help. 

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All of a sudden I start to see 
out of the blackness these, 

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these, I call them demonic 
creatures. 

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You know, there's all sorts of 
different words for demons and 

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stuff. 
I don't profess to be a 

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theologian of any sort, but 
these these things would come 

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out of the blackness like that 
lightning speeds and stop right 

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before me. 
And I was hung such that like 

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I'm looking at you, you're 
looking at me. 

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But I was hung that way. 
So I wasn't upside down. 

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I was upright hanging. 
But these things would pop at me

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at lightning speed and then just
stop. 

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And they were, they would, they 
would, they would mock me. 

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They, I could tell they hated 
me. 

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They hated the fact of who I 
was. 

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When you say mock, you like they
were using word like they were 

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making fun of like, hey, I don't
like that suit or like, you know

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what that. 
That's a while. 

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There's no words, but I knew it.
I sensed it. 

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They just just probably the same
way they knew to hate me for 

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whatever reason, they hated me. 
But then what was also gross was

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I mean, they're close enough so 
that I could actually see that 

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they had talons on these short 
little grub like arm finger 

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things, hand things and then 
there and teeth too. 

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And it at that moment or in this
period of time, it seemed like 

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there was stuff hanging in their
teeth. 

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OK, and then I'm hanging there 
and then all of a sudden, 

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whatever, one or two or some of 
them would zip around behind me 

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to my. 
So now they're on my backside 

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and I would feel this 
excruciating pain. 

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And I'm like, ah, so I knew. 
OK, So what they were doing was 

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with the with the fingers and 
maybe the teeth, I don't know. 

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They were they were stripping 
the skin off of my back, you 

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know, torture. 
So that's you know, I'm assuming

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there was sure flash from other.
Sure. 

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Don't know that that that they 
were consuming or something. 

226
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,240
So you're hanging upside down 
and now they're starting to 

227
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,640
torture you. 
Yes. 

228
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,920
Right. 
And and, but you have no sense 

229
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,520
of time. 
You don't know how long this is 

230
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,160
going on for. 
Now. 

231
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,600
When you look back on it now, 
how does it, how long do you 

232
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,280
feel you were there for? 
Was this going on for, you know 

233
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:34,080
what I'm? 
Does that make sense? 

234
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:40,960
Yeah, you know, we, we, we've 
thought about that and trying to

235
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:46,320
put time on it and, and, and, 
and the best for thinking back 

236
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:51,040
and recollect maybe shy of a 
day, like 23 hours ish. 

237
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,800
Yeah, because there was a point.
I know because you talked with 

238
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,800
my wife a little bit some other 
time and she felt a disconnect 

239
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,080
being in a different state. 
So, you know, we've always had a

240
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,760
connection, husband, wife, you 
know, when you're married, 

241
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:14,560
there's a connection. 
And so she knew somehow, like 

242
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:17,320
when I wasn't in this room 
anymore because she couldn't 

243
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,080
feel me. 
Yeah, yeah. 

244
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,520
Let's, we'll talk about, we'll 
talk about that too in a second.

245
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,520
Let's like we'll talk about 
what's going on with your body 

246
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,800
in a moment while you're in this
realm. 

247
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,160
So OK at what? 
Tell us then. 

248
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,360
Now, now, guide us out. 
You know, so this is happening. 

249
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,600
What do you see? 
How does this end this story end

250
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:40,880
for you? 
Like what you know, take us 

251
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,280
from. 
You know what I'm saying? 

252
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,320
How does this end? 
How does this end like that, you

253
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,680
know, from this moment on, how 
do you get out of here, you 

254
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,800
know? 
Like, well, and I and I didn't I

255
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,160
didn't even share about the lava
flow that was burned the skin 

256
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,360
off my legs. 
That's OK. 

257
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,360
So that was whole cue about the 
Can I back up and just sit? 

258
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:00,680
Yeah, please. 
No, no, no, the whole. 

259
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,560
Thing about the edge, you had 
mentioned that I was maybe at 

260
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,160
Well, yeah, I was. 
And so this lava flow would 

261
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,440
would come up from up and I say 
lava 'cause that's one, I can 

262
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:17,440
call it red, red magma liquid. 
Something very, very hot would 

263
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:24,000
cut through down towards me. 
Where it was going to eventually

264
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,880
end up is at the bottom of this 
pit of some sort that I was 

265
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,800
over. 
Well, when it came over the 

266
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:36,440
edge, some of the globules of 
lava, I, I, if you will, you 

267
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,240
know, they, they would splash, 
you know, like when you pour, it

268
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,320
comes out, you get splashes. 
While the splashes would hit my 

269
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:49,520
legs and burn off my flesh. 
I, I saw my own bones and I 

270
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,280
could and, and I've never been 
on fire before. 

271
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,640
Like I cannot even imagine 
people that have. 

272
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,440
But that pain I felt probably 
was the same. 

273
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,000
And then it like it was, it was 
a repeated experience because 

274
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,920
none of my flesh would form back
and burn off again, form back, 

275
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,960
burn off again, form back. 
So that was a little important 

276
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,040
part. 
Besides, yeah, it's all demonic 

277
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,800
things. 
Yeah, man, it sounds like it's 

278
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,360
all pain it. 
All sucks. 

279
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,240
It all sucks. 
All loneliness. 

280
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,360
As if getting shot in the back 
of the head wasn't bad enough, 

281
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,200
yeah, the next moment you wake 
up, you're hanging upside down 

282
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,400
by change, you're getting your 
legs burned off with lava, and 

283
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,720
you got creatures of some sort 
ripping your skin off. 

284
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,480
This is all terrible news. 
Great. 

285
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,320
This is not. 
Yes, this is not exactly what 

286
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:39,960
you were hoping for. 
No. 

287
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,680
For your business trip to 
Atlanta. 

288
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:42,600
No. 
This is the. 

289
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,200
It's OK. 
So we're just. 

290
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,920
Planning for the Convention. 
You know you. 

291
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,680
Know get a game plan together. 
The worst thing was that the 

292
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,440
convention would have been 
boring and you would have fallen

293
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,360
asleep in the room. 
But instead you're. 

294
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,960
This is where you wind up, Yeah.
Yeah, right. 

295
00:16:58,960 --> 00:16:59,760
So. 
So then what? 

296
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,640
What happens from there? 
So then we're, you know, take us

297
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,560
through it. 
What what happens with, and this

298
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,079
is the wonderful part is what 
happens from there was like I 

299
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:13,400
said, it was all black in there,
even though I could see these, 

300
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,880
these demons of some sort, but 
above me there was. 

301
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,079
Oh, the best way to explain it 
is, you know, if you took like 

302
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:28,240
a, a black garbage bag, you 
know, plastic and started and, 

303
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,920
and, and tried to push your 
finger through it. 

304
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,000
It was like this. 
I started to see this 

305
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,000
protrubants from above me and 
I'm reaching, I'm out of the 

306
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,120
camera, but I'm reaching up 
because this protrubants was 

307
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,640
pushing in from the outside. 
And then all of a sudden it, it 

308
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:50,600
pierced the, the, the the bag, 
if you will, And I saw it was a 

309
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,240
it was a hand like my hand, your
hand, a man's hand, a hand, 

310
00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:02,560
human hand and cracked creviced.
You know, if I were, if I were 

311
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,000
to use like a Christianese term,
like ancient a days like this 

312
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:11,800
hands, I could tell had been 
around a long time, like for 

313
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,560
and, but I never felt any fear 
from this hand. 

314
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,240
And then it started to descend 
towards me and it brought 

315
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,200
brilliant what brilliant light, 
shiny white feathers. 

316
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,560
And I heard this orchestral 
music start to play, which was 

317
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,920
so comforting. 
And the hand came down to a 

318
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,840
point where and the, and the 
best thing I can liken it to is 

319
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,920
anybody saying the old King Kong
with Faye Dunaway, is it how big

320
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,840
his hand was and grabbed her 
around the waist, you know, and,

321
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,560
and grabbed her. 
That's that, that's exactly what

322
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,880
happened. 
This hand grabbed me around the 

323
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,720
waist. 
Shackles fell off. 

324
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,080
All the demonics, the, the 
things I was seeing that were 

325
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:05,320
torturing me all fled. 
And then then I heard this voice

326
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:12,400
and it was like, it was like 
many things mixed together. 

327
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:18,400
A clap of bolt, a lightning clap
of Thunder, Niagara Falls all 

328
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,200
mixed together. 
And it simply said, it's not 

329
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,000
your time. 
And then I was just, I felt this

330
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:34,960
upward lifting out of there and,
and then all pain, all the pain 

331
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,360
was gone. 
And then I I probably at that 

332
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,520
point is when I spent the month 
in a coma. 

333
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,480
So OK. 
So. 

334
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:45,680
You didn't. 
Just you. 

335
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,800
You didn't. 
Just as you look back on this 

336
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,400
time, you didn't wake up at that
moment. 

337
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,960
No. 
So you were, you were, you 

338
00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:00,000
remember that well afterwards, 
but you'd like everything. 

339
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,920
So then it was, then it was 
basically. 

340
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,760
You don't know what was next. 
You just know there was a 

341
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,160
there's time or something. 
There's space between that hand 

342
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,440
pulling you out of there and 
then opening your eyes again. 

343
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,560
Yeah, 27 days later, right? 
Wow. 

344
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,320
Now, Matt, why do you you know, 
and we're going to get into sort

345
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,440
of the everything that you saw 
here. 

346
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,600
So just to remind the audience 
at this moment, Matt, so you get

347
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:31,320
shot on the sidewalk, you're in 
the ambulance, you flatlined. 

348
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,800
Yeah, I was. 
Yeah, I was told that flat lined

349
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,600
quite a few times. 
Right. 

350
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,520
And. 
Then brought me back back raced 

351
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,000
to the hospital. 
You lost a friend right to 

352
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,360
another stray bullet that 
actually took a friend's life. 

353
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,480
Your brother's with you, your 
wife had to fly out. 

354
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:52,160
You're in the hospital. 
And then again you were in a 

355
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,600
coma for for almost a month 
afterwards. 

356
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,040
And the recovery was brutal to 
get back and then these, these 

357
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,680
images and everything you sort 
of as you were putting a pieces 

358
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,360
together came back. 
Correct. 

359
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,720
So, you know, people who talk 
about near death experiences 

360
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,280
would would say what you have is
a distressed near death 

361
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:17,280
experience and who you went to. 
You know, you had a dark moment.

362
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,520
Why? 
Have you ever asked yourself why

363
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:27,920
you think that's where you were 
sent in that moment? 

364
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,200
Well, I think it had everything 
to do and and this and this is 

365
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,880
from my my perspective now sure.
I think it had everything to do 

366
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:47,840
with I did not know the Son of 
God and by by his mercy. 

367
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,760
I didn't stay there. 
Prayers of old prayers for my 

368
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:56,720
wife. 
I don't know. 

369
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,080
I don't. 
I can't answer that one for. 

370
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,160
Sure. 
But I guarantee you that's why I

371
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,800
experienced that. 
OK, Yeah. 

372
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,120
All right. 
So now when you look back on it 

373
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,560
and like we like to ask every 
all of our guests on this on 

374
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,840
splintered spirits. 
So what do you think? 

375
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,080
First and foremost, you know, do
you believe in ghosts? 

376
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:18,960
And what do you think spirits 
are? 

377
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,360
That's, that's a funny word, 
Ghosts. 

378
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,840
I definitely believe in spirits.
OK, what do you think they are? 

379
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,920
Well, I think there's there's 
there's ones with a good 

380
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,480
assignment and that are spirits 
with not a good assignment. 

381
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,080
Define what do you mean by 
assignment? 

382
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,440
You so well. 
I believe, I believe, I believe 

383
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,360
we have a God that created 
everything. 

384
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,720
You know, I don't believe that 
there's no monkeys. 

385
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,800
No. 
Anyway, I believe that it's God 

386
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,040
that created everything and 
there is good and evil and then 

387
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:05,760
he has angels and spirits that 
that are, that are here to help 

388
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,440
us. 
But then you also had the fall 

389
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,520
of, of, of Lucifer, which was 
his worshipper. 

390
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:21,640
And so he's got his own people, 
if you want to call them two 

391
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:29,320
spiritual helpers or those that 
carry out his plan rather than 

392
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,760
the God's plan of redemption, 
which is based on love. 

393
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:38,560
So do you believe, is it fair to
say do you believe that spirits 

394
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,800
are non human energies or 
entities? 

395
00:23:46,600 --> 00:24:00,960
That's a good question. 
Because he, like you inside of 

396
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,120
you, have a spirit. 
So. 

397
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,600
Yeah, right. 
So does that mean? 

398
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:10,880
It's a human spirit. 
Well, yeah, I would just for 

399
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,600
practice, for for purposes of 
this conversation, I would say 

400
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,640
like, yes, like whatever's 
inside me would be a human 

401
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,800
spirit. 
If I somehow if I pass and 

402
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,200
somehow like I you saw me in a 
vision or I I came and visited 

403
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,680
you as my quote UN quote ghost, 
that would be a human spirit. 

404
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:34,840
So do you believe that exists 
alongside these other spirits 

405
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,320
that are possibly have a non 
human origin? 

406
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:48,360
Wow. 
There's a lot of viewpoints on 

407
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:49,760
this. 
There's no wrong answer, it's 

408
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,200
just you know what I mean. 
It's like. 

409
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,520
There's no wrong answer because 
there's no way to, you know what

410
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,000
I mean. 
It's just I want to know based 

411
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,880
on your experience, because you 
have such a unique one. 

412
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,680
Have you ever thought about 
that? 

413
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:00,920
Like, you know, what would you 
think? 

414
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,720
Do you think that is sort of a, 
you know, forget about the 

415
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,440
vernacular or the semantics of 
it? 

416
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,160
Is that, is that sort of a 
something you would? 

417
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,280
How would you think about that? 
I would have to say yeah, there 

418
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,600
is. 
Right, right. 

419
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:19,720
So OK, that makes it right. 
There's there's certain 

420
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,040
creatures that are non human 
origin or spirits like the ones 

421
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,480
that you experienced ripping off
you like would you say like 

422
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,200
would you ever look back and 
think like those were once human

423
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,320
or the ones that were torturing 
you? 

424
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,680
Or could those have been 
something else? 

425
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,640
I think they would have. 
They would be more classified as

426
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:43,200
not human, but fallen angels, 
you know what I mean? 

427
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,520
The ones the ones that have evil
intent that God said now you 

428
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,520
guys can't be in heaven anymore.
This isn't going to work. 

429
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,280
What it was just like, you know 
what, like Lucifer is not going 

430
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,120
to work. 
So gone. 

431
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,720
But then Lucifer took a whole 
bunch of guys with him, right? 

432
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,560
So. 
Do you so in the hand that 

433
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,960
grabbed you, do you believe that
that hand is a single divine 

434
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,880
presence or could it have been a
collective consciousness of of 

435
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,320
spirit of, you know, pulling you
out when? 

436
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,360
You. 
I believe it was. 

437
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,000
I believe it was 1. 
I believe it was our our only 

438
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:29,120
creator for the capital C. 
OK, OK, so and, and this whole 

439
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,640
experience, when you look at 
your experience, do you believe 

440
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,920
that that that was hell? 
Yes. 

441
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,440
That is what that was hell and 
it OK and that. 

442
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,680
Was and there was no love there,
void of anything good. 

443
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,240
So that that's hell. 
Got it. 

444
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,960
That's right. 
That, that completely that 

445
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,320
answers my next question for us,
right. 

446
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,560
So that was you felt you could 
feel the emptiness of it of that

447
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:54,360
conscience. 
Got it. 

448
00:26:54,680 --> 00:27:01,920
So what do you think then 
happens to us when we pass? 

449
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,680
What do you think the spirit is 
in a person? 

450
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,840
So that if you've ever watched 
it like a paranormal show or a 

451
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,560
ghost show, right? 
You know, and they're and you 

452
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,800
hear or people have spirit boxes
and they and they hear, you 

453
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,240
know, spirits talk to them or 
they record a voice. 

454
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:23,440
What is how did that happen? 
How do you think that happens? 

455
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,080
I'm not sure. 
That's nobody. 

456
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,800
Sure. 
That's why it's fun to think. 

457
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,240
It's fun to talk about what we 
think. 

458
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:30,480
Nobody. 
Sure, Matt. 

459
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,040
That's just like, you know, 
because my, my father passed and

460
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,680
I believe there's been a couple 
of times where I've seen him 

461
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,600
and, and my brother has seen 
him. 

462
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:48,680
Like seeing him, seeing him, you
know, we were trying to get a 

463
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,880
grill that one day and it was my
dad's, his dad's dad's old 

464
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,960
grill. 
And he, he, he told my brother, 

465
00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:00,560
he's like, you got to do this. 
And Johnny was like, what he 

466
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,600
well, he came back and he's like
bro to me. 

467
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:04,960
He's like, dad was just out 
there. 

468
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:11,160
I'm like, I believe it so. 
Now, OK, so let's take it. 

469
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,200
Let's take it a step. 
Like, you know you, you've 

470
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,800
experienced something. 
You've experienced something. 

471
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,440
You know where you've gone to 
another place. 

472
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Yes, for sure. 
Your energy went to another 

473
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,120
place. 
So why? 

474
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:27,440
How do you think your father 
appeared to your brother in that

475
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,000
moment? 
What do you think that is? 

476
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:36,360
I, I, I believe that that people
up there, IE in heaven that have

477
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:45,040
passed on maybe are given an 
opportunity to peer in on their 

478
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:50,240
loved ones from time to time. 
Sure, that'd be my guess. 

479
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,200
Do you think there's any? 
Do you believe in? 

480
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,160
Do you believe when people talk 
about ghosts in the sense of, 

481
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,800
oh, they have unfinished 
business and they're trapped 

482
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,800
here or something? 
Do you believe in any of that? 

483
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:02,800
I don't know. 
I don't. 

484
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,480
I don't know about that. 
I don't think so. 

485
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,840
OK. 
I don't think that'd be more 

486
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,760
like, oh, not like a purgatory 
thing or something. 

487
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,760
I don't know. 
I don't know. 

488
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,440
Nobody knows. 
Again, no, nobody knows. 

489
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,760
There's no wrong answer. 
You only have to go by what 

490
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,080
you're but what you how you've 
experienced something and and 

491
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,200
sort of how does that? 
Let me, let me ask you this way.

492
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,840
What before this incident for 
you, right? 

493
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,960
What would you have said? 
How do you think you would have 

494
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,000
answered this question? 
What do you think happens when 

495
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,240
you die? 
I probably would have just said 

496
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,280
you go to heaven. 
Right. 

497
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,440
And now when you think about 
what happens when you die, how 

498
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,080
does that answer change? 
There, there's some 

499
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,960
qualifications and it's not just
being, it's not just being a 

500
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,760
good person because I was a good
person. 

501
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,480
I love people. 
I was doing good things, but I 

502
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,920
don't think God was lying when 
he said you need to know my son 

503
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,600
or Jesus said, you know, the 
only way the Father is through 

504
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,480
me, whatever scripture that is. 
I think he was not lying like 

505
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,720
he's, he's telling the truth. 
Well, that's a, that's a big, 

506
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,680
that's a big. 
Yeah, that changed big time. 

507
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,920
Let me ask you this, if someone 
from a different faith, yeah, or

508
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:29,040
no faith, right, had the same 
experience that you had, how do 

509
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,280
you think they would interpret 
it? 

510
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,480
If, if, if someone live, if 
someone went through this, what 

511
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,120
you experienced, do you think 
you know what? 

512
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,160
What do you think? 
How would they describe what it 

513
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,120
was if not if it wasn't a 
religious without having the 

514
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,760
religious lens on it? 
I don't know, I mean, because 

515
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,200
that's that's how people all of 
a sudden had no belief or or 

516
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,880
anything change. 
So, you know, you know what I 

517
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,960
mean. 
Things like this change people. 

518
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,320
You think it would You think, 
you think. 

519
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,880
I think they did that that their
whatever their view before may 

520
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,920
change. 
Got it right. 

521
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,120
So that they're that's they 
would, they would, they would 

522
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,120
all of a sudden turn to it. 
You've said you've said you 

523
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,080
don't regret what happened, 
which I find remarkable. 

524
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,440
No, I don't. 
We lost a lot. 

525
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,440
But what we've gained, you can 
only go. 

526
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:38,080
You can only gain sometimes, but
through a loss, you know, as 

527
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,160
long as you're not, as long as 
you don't stay with a defeatist 

528
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,400
attitude like, oh, you know the 
crap that sucks. 

529
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:51,120
Life's over so. 
What's been the what's been the 

530
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,360
biggest loss? 
Were you able to go back to work

531
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,680
at some point or did you change 
everything? 

532
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,280
Nope, we had to change 
everything. 

533
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,320
I tried that, didn't work. 
Too much brain injury. 

534
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,720
Got it. 
Yeah, got it, got it, got. 

535
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,920
It, well, it tends to rearrange 
some things in there. 

536
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,120
Oh man, it was, it was a hard 
recovery is what you're saying. 

537
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,520
Yeah. 
And there are how long did it 

538
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,720
take? 
How long did it take you to to 

539
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:25,480
like, sort of really get back on
your feet where you can, you 

540
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,040
know, have some semblance of 
normalcy? 

541
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,520
Well, many years. 
Many years. 

542
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,320
Oh, wow. 
And it would have been possible 

543
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,920
if I didn't have my wife by my 
side. 

544
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,640
I'll tell you, she decided. 
No, she's a St. 

545
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:48,040
She, yeah, she decided to stay 
early on in the injury and yeah.

546
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,880
Hold on. 
So I'm just I'm just looking 

547
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,640
through my I want to see what I 
want to ask you, OK, when you 

548
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,280
first woke up now. 
Yeah. 

549
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,040
It's, I mean, can you even 
remember the moment you woke up 

550
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,640
or is that take even some? 
Time. 

551
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,000
I remember it very vividly. 
Oh, it's horrible. 

552
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,480
Oh, really? 
It was horrible. 

553
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,080
I mean, I love watching these 
movies and somebody comes out of

554
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,800
a coma and they're like 
celebrating, you know, I'm 

555
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,840
laying there, one of my arms is 
tied down in the bed. 

556
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,440
I'm looking around the room and 
I don't know where I am, but you

557
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,040
come, you come to the conclusion
very fast. 

558
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,400
You're in the hospital. 
But then I see all these 

559
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,040
birthday cards and well, 'cause 
I had a birthday when I was in 

560
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:40,480
the coma, April, you know, April
and, and my body hurt my last, 

561
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:47,760
oh gosh, a whole ton of weight. 
I think when I went before I got

562
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,960
shot I was whatever 15160 and 
and I'm laying there weighing 

563
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,160
90. 
Well, how did you? 

564
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,440
But you didn't know you weighed 
less at that moment when you 

565
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,880
first No, no. 
That takes a minute. 

566
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,320
I could tell I I hurt everything
in my body hurt hole in my leg. 

567
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,400
So that means you can't talk. 
Oh wow. 

568
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,120
From from from the the 
ventilator. 

569
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,000
Who was the first person you 
saw? 

570
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,159
Was it a nurse? 
A doctor? 

571
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:15,840
Your wife? 
What was the first face you 

572
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:16,920
remember? 
The first face you saw. 

573
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,560
Remember the first hand? 
That was my wife's. 

574
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,800
I was playing with her wedding 
ring. 

575
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,639
Got it. 
Interesting. 

576
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,719
Yeah. 
And then how long did it take 

577
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,960
for this memory of your 
experience to come back? 

578
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,719
When did that come in? 
The the details were a few years

579
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:52,159
later, we had to go down to the 
hospital for a neurological 

580
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:57,280
review or something like that. 
And then after seeing the 

581
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:02,120
hospital, apparently that open 
up floodgates. 

582
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:10,640
And one morning I woke up and 
all this memory sort of all the 

583
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,280
sort of flood come back to me in
a flood. 

584
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,000
I'm like for what? 
It scared the crap out of me. 

585
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,240
I could barely talk could I 
couldn't even. 

586
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,320
I want to tell my wife what I 
just saw and I was so pale. 

587
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,360
She just stared at me. 
She's like what? 

588
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:32,400
And I'm like, it took me quite a
while to be able to tell her 

589
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,760
what I saw. 
Right. 

590
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,000
And now your wife's obviously a 
big, a big role in your life 

591
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,520
here and what she did, you know,
she was sitting by her side. 

592
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,280
She was praying for you and for 
your recovery and to get and get

593
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,800
you back. 
Do you think, how would you, do 

594
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:58,480
you think there's we can talk 
about it as a power of prayer or

595
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:03,560
a connection of consciousness? 
What do you think is do you one,

596
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,120
do you think there was a 
connection there between what 

597
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,600
she was doing to help get you 
back? 

598
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,440
Absolutely. 
And and you do think so I do and

599
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,120
now and and do you think there? 
What do you think it is? 

600
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,000
What do you think that 
connection is? 

601
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,840
Is it is it just the power of 
prayer? 

602
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,720
Is it is it an energy because we
all have energy inside us? 

603
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,520
How would you describe? 
It I think it's a power of 

604
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:32,280
prayer, but also it's a covenant
between her and I as as husband 

605
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:37,400
and wife that she was honoring, 
you know, like the vows to to 

606
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,880
death do his part. 
Well, she's like, no, no. 

607
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,840
God, technically, technically 
you flat lined. 

608
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,720
She could have split. 
He's like, my, my, my contract's

609
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:49,040
up. 
Yeah, you know, expired, right? 

610
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,600
You know what I mean? 
It's like, it's like he flat 

611
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,360
lined once. 
It's like, Yep, I'm out. 

612
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,320
But she's stuck with it. 
She's going beyond the contract.

613
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,520
Expired. 
Yeah, that was crazy anyway, but

614
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:00,240
yes. 
Right. 

615
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:05,840
Power prayer, covenant, 
Covenantal keeping right God and

616
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:13,880
then God somehow honored her 
prayer and I'm I'm I'm happy and

617
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,880
blessed that she did you know, 
and her mom probably you know, 

618
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,360
there was others praying, but 
oh, definitely the prayer. 

619
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,800
What do you think is our 
connection to these spirits? 

620
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,120
Is it emotional energy? 
Is it fear? 

621
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,480
Is it love? 
Is it faith? 

622
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,680
What is it that that attracts 
them to us or connects us to 

623
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,880
that? 
I I think first it's faith and 

624
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,680
and then love. 
So that's an emotional 

625
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,640
connection. 
Yeah. 

626
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,200
Is faith an emotion? 
Well, love is, I mean. 

627
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,360
Love is. 
Love is faith is a belief. 

628
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:54,560
Yes. 
Right. 

629
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:58,200
A strong belief, you know. 
So love is an emotional thing, 

630
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,480
do you think You know, does fear
play any role in there? 

631
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,200
Probably. 
In this in in sort of their 

632
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:09,560
attraction to or their draw to 
you in that moment. 

633
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,400
What do you think it was? 
What do you think it was that 

634
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,440
when you were when you look back
on at that, why do you think 

635
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,320
they hated you? 
You said earlier, right, They 

636
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,920
hated you What is it about you 
that they hate you? 

637
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,080
I. 
Think they, well, I think they 

638
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,840
hated that I had love in my 
heart and I and I had goodness 

639
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,000
in my body, in my soul. 
OK. 

640
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:37,800
And they hated that. 
Have you ever felt even remotely

641
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,960
that same dark energy since your
recovery? 

642
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,000
No. 
Have you ever been afraid of 

643
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,960
something that that has taken 
you close to that or watching 

644
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:52,720
you or lurking or any of that? 
No, no, never. 

645
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,000
Unfortunately. 
Thank God no. 

646
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:01,080
OK, no, it was a one off. 
It was a one off done. 

647
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,320
Right. 
It's interesting, man. 

648
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:12,040
It's like, what would you tell? 
What would you tell people then 

649
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,720
in terms of do you think that 
first of all, you said you were 

650
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:17,160
a good, you know, you're a good 
person and you are, Yeah. 

651
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,240
Do you think you know? 
It seems it seems unfair. 

652
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:23,320
Have you ever asked God like 
why? 

653
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,360
Why did you may put me through 
this? 

654
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,040
You know what? 
I've asked that, but not really 

655
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,880
on my behalf. 
But I've wondered for others. 

656
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,360
What do you? 
Mean for other, I mean, because 

657
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,960
I, I, I really believe the fact 
that I didn't know his son was 

658
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,360
the reason why I experienced 
what I experienced. 

659
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,480
So I know there's a lot of 
people out there that do not 

660
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:57,240
know Godson Jesus. 
I've been concerned or you know 

661
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:01,560
that I pray for that a lot of 
times, you know what about them?

662
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,800
So, oh, OK, I see what you're 
saying. 

663
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:12,400
So you're, you're wondering 
you're you're OK, but how do I 

664
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,920
ask this admit. 
So it's a this happened to you 

665
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:21,120
somewhat unjustly. 
So yeah, it feels like it could 

666
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,280
happen to anybody who's a good 
person or a bad person. 

667
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,600
If that happens to a good 
person, what do you think is 

668
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,160
going to happen to a bad person?
Right, Right. 

669
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,200
They're probably, they're 
probably. 

670
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,080
Yeah, I found something. 
No guard. 

671
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,920
Right. 
So how you know, how could you 

672
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,440
know? 
Is that, is that the is that a 

673
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:43,760
way? 
Do you feel that that's a 

674
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:51,320
fairway to learn that lesson? 
It's about about Jesus in your. 

675
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,360
Heart. 
I would rather have done it some

676
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:58,040
other way. 
Right, right. 

677
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,000
Yeah, I can imagine that's. 
But that's one of the big 

678
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,120
reasons why, I mean, I wouldn't,
I wouldn't replay this at all. 

679
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:12,120
I mean, it's what it was. 
And right it could it have been 

680
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,600
a mistake? 
Maybe there's another Matthew 

681
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,320
Boxford that they just got mixed
up in the. 

682
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,000
Books, I know there's there's 
other ones. 

683
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,880
I was when they coach volleyball
and basketball, I'm like, that's

684
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,880
not me. 
Right, but maybe they're the 

685
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,240
ones who they had on the list to
get to go to the wrong. 

686
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:27,560
Spot. 
You mean like Santa? 

687
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,160
Like a naughty list? 
Like Santa? 

688
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,160
Yeah, Yeah, they just got you 
mixed up with somebody else to 

689
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,200
put you through that. 
You could do you could do a show

690
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,600
like that, right? 
But the great mix up. 

691
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:42,080
The great mix of this is the 
greatest mix up in history. 

692
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:45,480
Yeah, hey, what's in your bag? 
Matt, have you ever talked to 

693
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,320
anyone else with other 
experiences like yours? 

694
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,440
Have you ever gone on like, you 
know, do a group or like anybody

695
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,040
else who's had near death 
experiences in this fashion? 

696
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,400
I've talked to some and they're 
all and we're all they're we're 

697
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,400
all. 
It's all seems similar in great.

698
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,080
Detail. 
Does everyone approach it from 

699
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:09,800
a, you know, a religious angle 
that they feel like this is the 

700
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,760
hand of God or this is the. 
Yeah, it seems, it seems to be 

701
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,280
like you had mentioned, you 
know, somebody of another faith 

702
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:18,680
comes through a similar 
experience. 

703
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,080
How will they interpret it? 
Well, it's, it's the experience 

704
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,440
that you go through that creates
your interpretation. 

705
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,480
And so it ends up coming around 
to the same kind of conclusion. 

706
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,520
Can you think of a story or, or 
someone else that you've spoken 

707
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,360
to that has a similar experience
but was was very, you know, 

708
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,840
similar but different in the 
sense that they experienced the 

709
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,800
hand of God in a different way 
than you did? 

710
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,120
It wasn't so violent. 
I'm trying to think. 

711
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,360
I'm trying to remember. 
I don't think so. 

712
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,440
I don't think so. 
On the on the the moment, I 

713
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:53,920
don't think I can. 
Got it. 

714
00:42:56,720 --> 00:43:00,640
Have you had any other, have you
ever had any other experiences, 

715
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,400
maybe obviously not so violent, 
but or like not just seeing your

716
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,280
dad, but other moments in your 
life since the event or prior to

717
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,960
the event that felt supernatural
or otherworldly? 

718
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:28,540
I think back, I mean it doesn't,
it doesn't really. 

719
00:43:29,980 --> 00:43:36,040
I mean, each morning I'll, I'll,
I'll, I'll get up, I, I try to 

720
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,600
get up usually when like around 
sunrise because I like, begin 

721
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,120
the day like that. 
I'm a morning person rather than

722
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,880
a night person. 
But I'll sit there and I mean, 

723
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,280
meaning I'll sit there and 
something, you can call them 

724
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,160
devotions or whatever. 
I don't know if this is going to

725
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,920
answer your question or not, but
I guess it's best I got and, 

726
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,160
and, and I and I will sit there 
and I'll say, all right, God, 

727
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,040
what's going on? 
What you got? 

728
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,240
What what's today, you know, and
I'm and I always have a coffee, 

729
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:10,000
be drinking coffee and I'll sit 
there and if I am quiet long 

730
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:16,160
enough, eventually I can feel 
and I and I and it's the Holy 

731
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:20,200
Spirit. 
I can feel that supernatural 

732
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:25,680
presence in the room. 
I don't know if that's an 

733
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,120
answer. 
So it certainly is an answer. 

734
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,160
Do you feel a connection when 
you meet new people at all? 

735
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,560
Do you feel any sort of 
sometimes difference in energy 

736
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:35,640
or vibes? 
I mean, we all do. 

737
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:41,320
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes 
that's sometimes if I, I meet a 

738
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:46,400
certain person, be like, uh huh,
You've got an understanding. 

739
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,840
Do you know what I mean? 
Yeah, that's like an intuition. 

740
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,240
What do you think about mediums?
Do you believe in people like 

741
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:57,600
that that can you know I have 
the ability to? 

742
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,760
I think I think they can. 
Have you ever sat with one? 

743
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,400
No been on a show with one but 
I've never sat with one. 

744
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,760
Got it. 
Did they ever? 

745
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,000
Did they give you a reading that
you that you did you believe in 

746
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,360
it? 
Never actually had a reading 

747
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,280
from 1:00. 
Got it. 

748
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,480
It's funny. 
It's funny how the any the I 

749
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,520
won't say any name or name with 
the last 1. 

750
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:28,800
I actually saw how they tried to
keep eye contact with me but had

751
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,360
difficulty. 
I'm like, what's that about? 

752
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,720
What'd they say? 
I don't know. 

753
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,560
Maybe they do you think maybe 
you still have some sort of a 

754
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,800
connection like a mark, you 
know, a spiritual mark from 

755
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:48,040
having been through what you've 
been through, right? 

756
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,680
It's like getting did you get 
the last rights? 

757
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,440
Do what? 
Did you get the last rights when

758
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,400
you were in the hospital? 
I don't know that. 

759
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,280
Because first of all, I believe,
firmly believe getting the last 

760
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,760
rights and living is totally 
awesome in metal. 

761
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,440
It might be the coolest, it's 
the coolest, It's might be the 

762
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,080
coolest thing ever. 
It's you know, I've got AI think

763
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,760
it's, you know, big that I was 
raised Catholic. 

764
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,760
You know, for the the seven 
sacraments that there are, I 

765
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:18,160
believe I've gotten pretty much 
all of them except for the last 

766
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,320
rites and then vocation. 
I'm not going to become a priest

767
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,400
anytime soon, but I would enjoy 
getting the last rites. 

768
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,600
But living. 
And I'm wondering, you know, 

769
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:26,920
because it's like, how cool is 
it? 

770
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,080
It's like, yeah, man, I got the 
last rites, but I'm still 

771
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:29,960
standing. 
I'm here. 

772
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:31,640
I'm standing right here talking 
to you, bro. 

773
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,680
I'm. 
Standing right here, it's the 

774
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,360
most bad ass thing I think you 
can do. 

775
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,920
I don't know why. 
I don't have any idea. 

776
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,200
I know that's a question I I'll 
ask somebody else that was 

777
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,720
cognizant of reality rather than
me being somewhere. 

778
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:50,360
Else, yeah, yeah, that's a good 
question. 

779
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,400
And I wonder we're in the 
timeline that falls. 

780
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,200
Right. 
You know what I mean? 

781
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,520
Could there be a? 
Is there a connection? 

782
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,440
Yeah. 
With the with when you receive 

783
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,040
that versus when that hand came 
down and sort of whatever how 

784
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:15,720
far how long after you woke up 
yeah was that was the last rites

785
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,240
there's. 
A lot of questions. 

786
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,880
I don't know if we're going to, 
I don't know if I'll ever get 

787
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,760
those kind of answers, but I got
a lot of. 

788
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:22,240
Questions. 
No. 

789
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:23,040
Yeah. 
It's been a while. 

790
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,680
It's been a while. 
This happened in 92, right? 

791
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,520
Yes. 
Have you ever gone back to that 

792
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,280
restaurant and give them a give 
them a bad Yelp review? 

793
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,600
Like food? 
Food was great, Food was great, 

794
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,480
But the bullets afterward, the 
dessert was not so great. 

795
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,520
Your your Rd. service poo poo. 
Right now. 

796
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,320
Now. 
Your drive through. 

797
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,880
Skip it. 
Skip the drive through man. 

798
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,840
No drive by shootings. 
Oh my goodness, that's. 

799
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,680
That's bad humor. 
No, no, it's OK. 

800
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,640
We're we're we got to keep it 
light, man, we can't sit here 

801
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,880
and talk about, you know, you 
have a you have a a wonderful 

802
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,520
redemption story. 
You know that is so it's like if

803
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:07,520
we can't keep it light after the
the horrific sort of experience 

804
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:08,240
you. 
Had it goes. 

805
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:15,200
I think it goes to show that, 
you know, you can be really far 

806
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:21,560
gone and still may not be done 
with your with your life. 

807
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,440
I mean, not even in a spiritual 
standpoint. 

808
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,880
I mean, there's some people that
are having hard times, you know,

809
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,000
like hard times, you know, can't
get any food. 

810
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,200
You know what I'm saying? 
No home. 

811
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,960
That's hard. 
Yeah. 

812
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:41,520
I don't know what that's like. 
Thank God. 

813
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,280
Right. 
It could always be worse, sort 

814
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,080
of what you're saying for sure. 
And what you went through was 

815
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,520
sort of in a, would you call it 
an awakening? 

816
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,280
Do you feel it's that much of an
experience, like in a 

817
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,160
difference? 
Well, OK, an awakening. 

818
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,160
I don't know technically what 
that would be defined as, but. 

819
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,640
Neither do I I'm. 
Just this, this definitely would

820
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,440
be considered an awakening in my
life. 

821
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:10,840
Yeah. 
It changed a lot of ways that we

822
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,600
live for sure. 
Oh wow. 

823
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,480
Yeah, that doesn't mean we're, 
that doesn't mean we're 

824
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,640
insurance 365 days a year. 
But right it definitely it it, 

825
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,600
it shows us where our belief is 
or should be. 

826
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,600
Matt, let me ask you a question.
If you, if this happened again, 

827
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,680
like, you know, God forbid it 
happened again, you woke up and 

828
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:41,680
you were on those chains again. 
What do you what do you think 

829
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:43,160
you would do that that next 
time? 

830
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,680
What would you tell yourself? 
Like I know exactly how to get 

831
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,560
out of this or this is, you 
know. 

832
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:57,160
Well, I, I think probably if it 
happened again, I would actually

833
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,800
have the name of Jesus in my 
mouth and I would and I would 

834
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:08,000
holler his name and then that's 
probably would hopefully end it 

835
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,600
all. 
But you don't think you'd be 

836
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,760
like, wait a minute, damn it, I 
just spent probably my whole 

837
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,600
life, this is unfair. 
Like would there be any sort of?

838
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:23,680
Probably if, if I could, I mean,
under that kind of duress, 

839
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,680
there's not much. 
You're you, you know what I'm 

840
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,600
saying? 
You're not like, I mean, like I 

841
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,280
said, I would hope now that I 
have relationship with God's Son

842
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,200
that maybe I could have it in me
to holler for help for from Him.

843
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,480
Right, right, right. 
That'd be the only thing I could

844
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:44,720
think. 
Sure. 

845
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:46,720
Do you? 
Well, I was going to ask you 

846
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:48,840
wait, there was one in in that 
moment. 

847
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:54,640
Just I lost it for a second. 
It was a so you know, I look at 

848
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,360
your story and for for some 
people who have distressed near 

849
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,080
death experiences, right, it's 
almost like it's oddly that they

850
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,960
got scared straight for real, 
right, For but you know, and it 

851
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,840
was, you know, like remember the
old scared straights show? 

852
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,040
He'd said he'd send him to 
prison. 

853
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,480
And it's like, hopefully this 
will turn. 

854
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,200
Your life around. 
Right. 

855
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,560
That was scary. 
Do you ever think that the but 

856
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,240
you know, this is a little bit 
of A twist on things. 

857
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:24,040
Is is it? 
Do you ever think of the fact 

858
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,000
that you go to this horrible 
place? 

859
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,600
But it was that what what made 
you, what pushed you in the 

860
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,920
direction that you wanted to 
live your life wasn't 

861
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:44,800
necessarily Jesus, but it was 
the evil that you saw that that 

862
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,400
sent you to a better spot. 
Do you see what I'm saying? 

863
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,760
Yeah. 
It was like, who got you to live

864
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,080
a better life? 
Was it Jesus that got you to 

865
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,720
live a better life? 
Or was it the devil that got you

866
00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:00,440
to live a better life? 
Right, that's quite a quote. 

867
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,840
That's a that's a conundrum. 
You know what I mean? 

868
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:05,040
Yeah. 
Is it? 

869
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:06,560
Is it? 
You know it's. 

870
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,720
A yeah, it's a lot. 
It's like scared straight, yeah.

871
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,360
You know, and, and I'm, I'm just
sure, what do you think about 

872
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:13,240
that? 
What, what, what do? 

873
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,080
You. 
I think what? 

874
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,040
What? 
When the hand rescued me, I felt

875
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:24,320
so much love. 
And there's no way that dark 

876
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,760
side could provide that kind of 
love. 

877
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:32,560
I guarantee you that. 
But by experiencing that dark 

878
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:38,920
side, if you will, it sure is a 
good it sure was a good kick off

879
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,080
towards the other side, but the 
hand. 

880
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:44,600
Yeah. 
No, no, I, I look at it 

881
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,040
sometimes, You know, we all have
this impression of the devil, 

882
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,560
right? 
And it's, and I'm not, I'm not 

883
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,960
sitting here promoting the devil
in any way or any of that is I 

884
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,000
don't, I don't really care what,
what people do or what they 

885
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,720
believe in, in I'm, I'm open 
minded, but I wonder if it's 

886
00:52:56,720 --> 00:52:58,800
more of a good cop, bad cop 
situation. 

887
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,080
Do you know, to get you to the 
same place? 

888
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:04,760
Because you know, if you look at
the devil, some of the, the, 

889
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,560
the, really the, the devil's 
biggest presence in the Bible is

890
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,880
actually in the book of Job, 
right? 

891
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:17,960
And his presence there is not 
one of he and God are having a 

892
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,080
conversation. 
They're like playing a game. 

893
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,360
It's basically trading spaces. 
If you ever saw that movie where

894
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,600
it's just, you know, like, hey, 
let's test this guy. 

895
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,240
All right, Well, I'm going to 
push him this way and see if he 

896
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:30,400
really does. 
You know, it's a bet. 

897
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,480
They're not this. 
They're not, you know, and 

898
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,160
people always think like, no, 
this guy's super bad and this 

899
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,040
guy's super this. 
And it's, and I wonder because 

900
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,040
you've now you, you've you've, 
you're a good person to begin, 

901
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:46,040
but now you've pushed yourself 
into even in a more, you know, 

902
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,440
it's what you believe in a more 
holier life and A and a more, if

903
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,880
you've got even further in that.
But it wasn't just by living a 

904
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,880
good life. 
You, it was almost like this 

905
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:01,840
evil side pushed you towards it.
And I want, you know, I just, I 

906
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,680
always wonder what people think 
of that, you know, in terms of, 

907
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:10,080
huh, is there a, is there a 
bigger game plan there that we 

908
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,840
don't know about if that is the 
way to go? 

909
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,840
That that's the that you're 
talking about the master chess 

910
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,480
game now? 
Yeah, I don't know. 

911
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,400
Have you ever thought about it? 
Not, no. 

912
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,160
Not until you mention it. 
No, Never. 

913
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,280
I've only ever thought about the
hand that received me. 

914
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,520
Got it. 
Not the hand that put that 

915
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,840
right, Not the situation that. 
Not not that. 

916
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,400
Yeah, Well, of course I've 
thought, you know, and, and I 

917
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,760
and I love this because 'cause 
people ask me. 

918
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,720
So are you plagued by these 
memories? 

919
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:41,960
And by the grace of God, I'm 
not. 

920
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,120
I talk about them. 
And then when I'm done talking 

921
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:53,320
about them, it's gone. 
It's not there, right? 

922
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,840
And I'm very, very thankful for 
that 'cause they give me. 

923
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,600
They'd be some horrifying 
nightmares. 

924
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:04,560
Yeah, I mean, that is. 
Your story is the epitome of 

925
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,080
Dante's Inferno of Hell. 
Right. 

926
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:13,160
I mean it is the the. 
Straight up, you know, textbook 

927
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:18,880
horrific experience that nobody 
wants. 

928
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:23,640
And you sort of came out of it 
with a better outlook or a, an 

929
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,320
outlook that works for you and 
your wife and it built a 

930
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,800
stronger relationship. 
And it, it's like all of these 

931
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,040
things with your family and with
your wife and it's all, it all 

932
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,920
turned for the better. 
Yeah, despite the horrible 

933
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,760
nature and then what it did to 
you physically and, and, and the

934
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,360
suffering that it caused, which 
is wild. 

935
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,040
I mean, it is. 
I wish, I wish he'd give me the 

936
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,160
provision that he gave. 
Job though he blessed with. 

937
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,040
He took everything from him and 
then he gave him back like well 

938
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,880
like 7 times more or something. 
Provisions, right? 

939
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,600
It was quite the IT was quite 
the game. 

940
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,600
Quite the game. 
Quite the game. 

941
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,440
I could have used that. 
I could have used that. 

942
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,640
Yeah, yeah, Joe didn't get a 
medical bill at the end of the 

943
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,480
day. 
No, no, I could definitely. 

944
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,440
I don't know if myself would 
like sheep though. 

945
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,920
Not the pass on the sheep. 
Right. 

946
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:18,200
Oh man, that's funny, Matt. 
It like it's a great it's do you

947
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,560
ever, do you ever, do you ever 
watch the ghost shows or the 

948
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,480
paranormal shows? 
I don't I love, I love sci-fi 

949
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:32,480
shows, but I don't really watch 
the the the let's see what what 

950
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,880
was it remember the movie 
X-Files with Mulder and. 

951
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
What was that considered? 

952
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,200
That's a yeah, that's a 
paranormal thing. 

953
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,120
That's a, you know, a fictional 
show about the power of the. 

954
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,200
Original when that was played, 
when that first came out, we 

955
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:46,000
loved it. 
We watched it all the time. 

956
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:48,560
Sure. 
And it begs, you know, it gives 

957
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,080
you both sides. 
It makes you sort of wonder what

958
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,520
is, what is there, what isn't 
there? 

959
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,280
How can you be unexplained and 
all of and all of these things. 

960
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,440
I, you know, look, I come in all
this stuff from a, from a 

961
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,160
perspective of, you know, just 
trying to, I look at everybody's

962
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:10,080
experience as a, a piece to a 
bigger picture, right, of what 

963
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,760
the, what is what may be the 
answer? 

964
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,720
It's a giant mosaic in my head 
right now, right? 

965
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,920
All these different angles of 
what are spirits and what is it 

966
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,720
that we're told what is what is 
happening. 

967
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,720
I think there is a I've had, I 
got a reading from a medium. 

968
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,560
I found it wild. 
You know, I, I care for the life

969
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,840
of me figure out how she may 
have known certain things. 

970
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,160
I believe there is a. 
I believe people have intuition,

971
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:39,960
right? 
Like everybody has an intuition.

972
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,520
My wife's My wife's big big, big
time intuitive. 

973
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,000
Right and it and I and some 
people have it in the same way I

974
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,360
compared to sports a lot, right.
Some people can throw a baseball

975
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:50,960
at 98 miles an hour and some 
people can't. 

976
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,400
And I think intuition is another
muscle that, you know, we all 

977
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,920
have a flight or a flight or 
fight instinct in US for some 

978
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,160
reason, right. 
I don't know why that kicks in 

979
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,120
and yet why can't that then be 
so strengthened to where you can

980
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,000
can connect to something else 
and what it. 

981
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,000
But what is that something else?
Is it just we all have 

982
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,000
electrical synapses in our 
brain. 

983
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:20,600
This is a fact that energy is 
something what is, but we don't 

984
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,040
know what consciousness is. 
We don't know what the how the 

985
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,680
mind works and we don't know how
the what that connection is to 

986
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,640
others and how we are connected 
in that way. 

987
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,280
And it's an interesting to get a
perspective from someone of you 

988
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:41,200
who literally flat lined. 
Yes, several. 

989
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:46,400
Times so several times and your 
energy then energy cannot be 

990
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,240
created or destroyed. 
Right. 

991
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,160
And did it? 
Did it? 

992
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,480
Did some of it dissipate or 
transfer somewhere? 

993
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,720
Some stayed? 
What happened? 

994
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,480
Where did it go? 
What did you experience? 

995
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,920
What stayed connected? 
Which is all and what's the 

996
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:09,360
purpose of it from what you saw 
versus is it truly God? 

997
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,800
Is it truly another thing? 
What what is that overall 

998
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:18,520
consciousness, A mindset, 
regardless of it it it's worked 

999
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:24,080
for you, it worked for your wife
and it's a it's a great it's a 

1000
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,840
great story to see. 
What is that connection? 

1001
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:29,920
And Matt, look, thank you so 
much. 

1002
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,640
I appreciate your time today. 
Dude, I'm so glad you called me,

1003
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,400
man. 
Yeah, when, when, when my phone 

1004
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,600
rang and it said it said Gary. 
My and my wife's was like, wait,

1005
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,880
Gary, California Gary. 
Oh, that's sweet. 

1006
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,000
'Cause we don't you. 
Guys are great. 

1007
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,800
You, you guys are wonderfully 
open about sharing this story 

1008
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,760
and it's a, it's a great story. 
And I've always been a fan of, 

1009
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:54,800
of you and your wife and your 
trajectory based on what you've 

1010
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,120
gone through. 
And I think, you know, it makes 

1011
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,960
sense for us on splittered 
spirits here to talk about this 

1012
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:07,480
and near death experiences and 
what that means in this spirit 

1013
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:09,400
communication angle that we look
at. 

1014
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,240
You know, what is that 
connection we have? 

1015
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,320
Well, I love that. 
I love the title of your show. 

1016
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,280
I didn't realize the title of 
the show until I got the thing. 

1017
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:17,680
You know the the. 
I'm. 

1018
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,480
Like, oh great, perfect. 
We try, we try. 

1019
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:26,560
Respect, because that's so true,
Splinter Spirits. 

1020
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,200
No, what is it, you know, what, 
what, what breaks off, what is 

1021
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,200
connected, what stays connected.
And yeah, you get it, you get 

1022
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:33,840
it. 
That's the fun. 

1023
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:35,840
We're trying to that's, and 
we're trying to do it from a, 

1024
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,680
from a place of fun and, and, 
and curiosity and staying 

1025
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,080
curious and staying 
understanding and staying open, 

1026
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,640
you know, and, and that's why 
we, you know, that's just kind 

1027
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,800
of where we're, we're looking 
at, at everything from, you 

1028
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,480
know, Matt, it's, it's, that's 
just the place we want to stay. 

1029
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,600
What's next for you before we 
just say goodbye? 

1030
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,360
Is it like, you know, I know 
your, your wife wrote a book 

1031
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,800
recently and is there anything 
you want to tell everybody? 

1032
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:00,880
You know what's? 
Yeah, she wrote. 

1033
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,680
She wrote a book. 
Well, like you were talking 

1034
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,360
about the time, so she entitled 
it A Day in Hell, but the 

1035
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:10,640
rewrite, she wrote it once and 
then she felt inclined to 

1036
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,480
rewrite it again and make it 
shorter and more concise. 

1037
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,840
And the, and the rewrite is 
awesome. 

1038
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,640
It's yeah, it's more hopeful. 
It's got all the details, but 

1039
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:24,560
yet it's a day in hell, tragedy 
to triumph. 

1040
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,560
And so the the subtitle is what 
the the book is full of hope, 

1041
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,280
and it's the story, but it's 
full of hope. 

1042
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,480
Is it the, is it, is it the just
to be clear, is it the story of 

1043
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,440
from her perspective of what 
happened to you? 

1044
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:43,240
It's, it's both, I mean, because
she's got what I told you about 

1045
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:47,760
what I experienced in it, but 
it's also got more of what she 

1046
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:52,320
experienced in it too. 
Yes, she had quite the 

1047
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:54,480
experiences in the hospital and 
things like that. 

1048
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,600
Praying for me. 
So that's in the book. 

1049
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:58,200
All right, well, we'll have to 
do this. 

1050
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,960
The good thing about this is 
we'll have to have a follow up 

1051
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,160
episode then and have it from 
her perspective. 

1052
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:09,760
Yeah, she's the Bombo. 
Yes, take, take her take and get

1053
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,800
her tail, you know, and see how 
those two line up. 

1054
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,000
Matt, thank you so much. 
I appreciate you. 

1055
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,280
I appreciate your time. 
Thanks, Gary. 

1056
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,720
Have a wonderful holiday season,
yeah? 

1057
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:22,760
Oh, wow. 
Right. 

1058
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:23,480
Yeah. 
Right. 

1059
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,440
We're rolling into it, man. 
Fast. 

1060
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,120
We're rolling into it. 
Thanks, Matt. 

1061
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,600
Thanks, Gary. 
Bye. 

1062
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,840
Well, that's it for another 
episode of Splintered Spirits. 

1063
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,680
Be sure to like, share, and 
subscribe to our YouTube 

1064
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,920
channel, Spotify, or wherever 
you get your podcasts. 

1065
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,320
Until next time, stay curious.