Hello, beautiful humans and welcome to the mental Wellness.
Wake up, show a weekly podcast where growth minded creative
people, come to learn, best practices from both spirituality
and psychology that create lasting well-being.
I am your host mental Wellness, expert improvised acting teacher
therapist and Coach, Don McMillan.
Let's get to it. It.
Alright, you wonderful amazing beings you.
What I want to talk about today is ROM Das.
So the logic of this podcast, if there is any is what is
occurring for me in my world either because of my own inquiry
or because of what's being brought to my attention by
friends, family clients the media.
And I trust the process that as we are going through this
journey of life. Together that we can be of
service to each other by exploring our own understandings
and sharing them. Yeah, so I'm on a Ram Dass trip
right now. So in case you don't know who
rhombus is, let me just give you a brief overview.
So Ram Dass was born, Richard Alpert, he was educated as a
psychologist. He got his PhD at Stanford.
Whoo. And then went to go work at
Harvard while he was at Harvard. He got entwined with Timothy.
Leary, who at the time was exploring the effects of
psychedelics. For cert for several years, they
worked together on what do psychedelics do for
Consciousness. What is their purpose?
How do we use them? Ultimately wronged us ended up
going to India where he became a devotee of someone whom he calls
maharajah. Maharaja, which I believe means
great, king, Maharaja was born named karoli, Baba and was a
devotee of bhakti-yoga. So Ram Dass becomes this
spiritual devotee and over time becomes the spiritual teacher
and one of his gifts was as a Westerner who had done really
the mainstream Western thing, right?
Went to college went to graduate school.
Became a Harvard, Professor was a good translator of Eastern
philosophy to westerners in his later.
Life, he did not renounce, I could Daleks but begin to
understand that their point was as a tool and a stepping stone,
so that people from different walks of life.
Particularly westerners who don't have the same spiritual
Traditions as they do in the East, we get a glimpse of what
is possible through the use of psychedelics and then do the
inner work, the yoga to be able to achieve those states without
the psychedelics. So in his later life, he Pretty
much didn't use psychedelics as much and became more interested
in the practices of yoga of Hindu and Buddhist philosophy,
and doing spiritual practices and being a spiritual teacher.
Okay, he became even more well-known after a while because
he was one of Wayne Dyer's teacher.
And if you don't know who Wayne Dyer, is because we're going
back, 50, 60, 70 s 80s. If you don't know who Wayne Dyer
is Wayne Dyer is A nerd, a spiritual teacher and kind of is
a member of like that new age royalty by writing books in the
70s and 80s and teaching into the 90s, okay?
So that's who we're talking about, we're talking about ROM
Das who you know was born in 1931 and died in 2019.
So you had a very long teaching life and he created this
Foundation or I believe he created Adam have been created
after his death. I'm not Called The Love server
member foundation and currently the love surf, remember
Foundation has a podcast where they curate talks of ram.
Das has on certain topics. So I really enjoy this this
podcast, because it allows me to go deep on one thing.
So, they'll take a sample from one speech and another speech
and put them together in a way that really works.
For me. What I am tripping.
Out on right now, is one from December on enlightenment?
Yeah. Enlightenment.
This is my quest. And if you know me personally
like Dawn, you gots a long way to go factual, but one of the
understandings that I have come to, is that, you know,
persistence often pays off, especially in recovery And in
the pursuit of higher, Consciousness and better
functioning. So here I am doing what I can to
become a more whole more complete, more evolved human
being. And so Along Comes.
This Ram Dass podcast and he says, something in the context
of this podcast, which keeps blowing my mind.
And I cannot stop thinking about it.
The freezes desire creates the universe.
Okay, more context. Yeah, so it comes in the context
of him being taught because he was a Perpetual student as well
as a teacher. And his teacher said that
desire, Is, you know, desire, meaning craving is a problem
that it is a form of, what's the word?
I can't even words right now, but that desirelessness is
Moksha is freedom. And the idea being that when we
are completely enslaved to our Cravings, we are not free and
that freedom comes from desirelessness.
If you're listening closely, you're going to recognize a part
of the teachings of the Buddha. Right?
All life is suffering. And the way you get out of
suffering is to let go of craving and the way you get out
of craving is to follow the Eightfold Path.
So westerners specifically really struggle against this.
What do you mean life is suffering?
We can be happy all the time. Well yeah, once you reach
enlightenment, Happiness, the kind and the Moksha, and the
freedom. That these spiritual teachers
are talking about is not the happiness.
That goes, there comes from suppressing.
Your negative feelings, put slapping a smile on your face
and wandering through life getting your ego needs
gratified. So, when we talk about
desirelessness, we're not talking about, like, never
having preferences, never liking things, never wanting things.
What desirelessness me, Means in this context and this is where
language gets tricky. Because there's not necessarily
a good English word for it. So that's why I like the word
craving. We're talking about
non-attachment to craving to we're getting the thing.
Great. But not getting the thing.
Doesn't have to be a disaster. So that's the context in which
this phrase popped up, desire creates the universe. and I
think for the kindergarten version of that teaching, is
Desire. Craving wanting seeking pursuing
attaching creates your Universe, my universe, the ways in which I
am controlled by my Cravings, is creating the universe that I
experienced. I was talking with someone
recently, who is really just upset about something.
And as you know a good therapist I was guiding them through.
What are you believing to be true?
That is creating your suffering. We don't respond to the stimulus
in our world. The thing that happened, we
respond to our interpretation about the thing that happened.
So as we were working through that, this particular person
began to see, oh my, interpretation of this event is
that it is so awful. I Recover from it.
And changing that interpretation to this is not something that I
prefer. And I can move forward from this
was very freeing. So, okay, can you here come the
doggies. We've got, Bertram, whining, and
panting. And then we have eggy with the
pitter-patter of little doggie, feet crashing into things with
her cone of shame after her surgery.
I'll be fine guys. And we good, we say hello.
Okay, let me know if you need something.
So desirelessness. Is about not being so attached
that hold please. So where were we desirelessness?
Is about not a non-attachment non-attachment, not being
detached like, I'm holding myself apart and I don't care
about anything but being non-attached.
Let's take a side rant care, Look up the definition of care
and ask yourself if that's what you want to be doing.
Okay? So non-attachment means that,
you have your preferences and you enjoy the heck out of them
and can you be at peace? If things go differently.
Can you recognize that there is a Perfection at the center of
everything? What there's a Perfection at any
through the Bubba? Okay, maybe.
But what if you pretended like there were I don't know the
capital-t truth about the world and the universe and how things
go and neither do you. So the question becomes, what is
helpful, what is useful? We can get so rigid in these are
facts when 99% of the time, the things to, which we are most
attached to our opinions. And those opinions create
suffering. So what if you operated as if
there's a Perfection at the center of everything that
cleaning up? Puppy poop off.
Your carpet is equally as valuable equally as peace,
inducing equally as rewarding as finding a surprise hundred
dollars in your pocket of your winter coat.
Right. This is this is what we're
talking about that what is occurring in the outer world.
Is not sufficient to completely destroy your peace.
So non-attachment is freedom which gets us back to desire
creates the universe. So the surface level
understanding, based on all the things that I've just said, and
some basic spiritual teaching is that desire is creating your
Universe. Now, the first objection is
going to be if desire recreating My Universe.
I would have a much nicer house, a much nicer car more.
Gorgeous spouse. I'm kidding.
Some of you think that though I would have this amazing life and
I don't so this response to that is what are you?
Attached to. What are you attached to our,
you more attached to your story about who you are and how life
works? Then you are to having peace of
mind. Are you attached to the idea
that a good life equals being rich and famous?
Are you attached to the idea that beauty means thinness or
low body fat or muscle nests or whiteness?
Our Thomas. What are you attached to?
Is it possible? Is it possible that if you
changed your level of attachment to what you think things are
supposed to be? You might discover that the way
things are is perfectly peaceful.
That is the first level in my understanding, right?
Told you, I don't have answers this time.
I'm just exploring this question.
Desire creates the universe so Ram, Dass goes on to say, I'm
going to lose some of you here, I think, but stay with me.
Stay with me, be an anthropologist exploring with
these crazy. Spiritual people think surround
us, goes on to say that. The reason that we are in form
is because there's a some part of us that desires to be Yes,
this is based on the idea that we are infinite beings having a
specific set of experiences and that after this body will do
other experiences. So that desire creates the
universe, the reason that we are experiencing a physical universe
is because we have chosen to in some way that we desire to in
some way that we are. Experiencing this experience
because we are somehow attached to this experience and that if
we wanted and these words are so paltry.
But that lets lets for the purposes of this conversation,
this life is not your only life. This body is not your only
identity. So then afterwards, you could
experience an entirely different kind of universe.
You could experience an entirely by early different kind of
existence an entirely different kind of being That you could be,
I don't know a demigod of some kind and some kind of universe.
You could be an energy being, it could be light being, you could
have Anna you know instead of a four-dimensional universe could
be an 11 dimensional Universe, I don't know.
That's the question desire, creates the universe.
I don't think ramdas has the capital-t truth either.
He's a person exploring like the rest of us. that is a very
evocative thing to have said, Desire is entrapment
desirelessness, his freedom hopping over to Buddha the way
to freedom is to follow the Eightfold Path. and, Desire
creates the universe. So what would plays in my mind
is if that were true, if my desires are creating my universe
and a lot of law of attraction to people are going to be like
yeah of course. But I think that's I think that
is a not complete understanding because that gets us into
victim-blaming. Which some people are fine with.
Some people are fine with desire, creates the universe.
So anything that is happening to you you created with your
personal desire and therefore that's your experience they
don't buy that. I think it's more complicated
than that. I think when you have eight
billion people wandering around somewhere, interacting with each
other. That there is something beyond
our personality. Something beyond what happens
between our two ears that creates our experiences. like,
I'm not a puppet master. I my personality me Dawn did not
make the dogs come in here and make noise.
Like that's I don't think that that's how the universe works.
I think they're little beings. I'm a little being lots of
people with heart beats on this planet right now.
So I don't think it's a completer or complete
understanding to say that your personality your Go your brain.
You the personality are out here creating everything that happens
to you. That just doesn't track because
they're things that happened. That no rational being would
choose. Yes, I know.
We're irrational. Okay now, I'm babbling, desire
creates the Universe. I don't know what that means,
but I do know the fact that it is sticking in my head means
that there's a lesson there for me.
If it is true that desire creates the universe, What do I
do with that information? And how do I take action from
it? If it is true that craving
creates suffering, that is what the Buddha meant by all life is
suffering. We are craving an attached and
non craving creates Freedom. How do I release?
We're craving. In order to achieve Moksha
Freedom. So that the universe that is
created is a universe of Freedom Universe of Enlightenment,
Universe of connectedness a universe of being one with
everything. That's the question.
And what coincidences is Professor life bringing me to
help me along my path. My friend row has a newsletter
and that always starts with a quote and the most recent one I
read had a wronged us quote in it and like coincidence,
deductive, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot. so I guess, my my offer
to you is If craving creates suffering and non-attachment
creates freedom. And our attachment or non
attachments desires are creating our universes.
What would you like to do, to create the universe?
You are currently experiencing? Okay, y'all.
That's what I got. That's what I got.
You might want to pop into the love serve, remember foundation,
and maybe read some Ram Dass, maybe check out Wayne Dyer or
maharaji and see if anything of their teachings pops for you.
desire creates the universe, such a provocative thing to
think about, and with that, I trust that you being whole
perfect and complete as you are and being worthy and deserving
as all the good that there is. I'll find a way forward that is
beautiful and amazing, and joyful, and peaceful, and
enriching and fulfilling. And delighting and even more
fabulous. Then your ego mind can imagine.
Okay. Until next time.
I am so honored that you share time with me.
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Thank you so much. See you next time.