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Hello, beautiful humans and 
welcome to the mental Wellness. 

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Wake up, show a weekly podcast 
where growth minded creative 

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people, come to learn, best 
practices from both spirituality

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and psychology that create 
lasting well-being. 

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I am your host mental Wellness, 
expert improvised acting teacher

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therapist and Coach, Don 
McMillan. 

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Let's get to it. 
It. 

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Alright, you wonderful amazing 
beings you. 

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What I want to talk about today 
is ROM Das. 

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So the logic of this podcast, if
there is any is what is 

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occurring for me in my world 
either because of my own inquiry

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or because of what's being 
brought to my attention by 

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friends, family clients the 
media. 

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And I trust the process that as 
we are going through this 

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journey of life. 
Together that we can be of 

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service to each other by 
exploring our own understandings

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and sharing them. 
Yeah, so I'm on a Ram Dass trip 

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right now. 
So in case you don't know who 

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rhombus is, let me just give you
a brief overview. 

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So Ram Dass was born, Richard 
Alpert, he was educated as a 

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psychologist. 
He got his PhD at Stanford. 

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Whoo. 
And then went to go work at 

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Harvard while he was at Harvard.
He got entwined with Timothy. 

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Leary, who at the time was 
exploring the effects of 

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psychedelics. 
For cert for several years, they

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worked together on what do 
psychedelics do for 

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Consciousness. 
What is their purpose? 

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How do we use them? 
Ultimately wronged us ended up 

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going to India where he became a
devotee of someone whom he calls

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maharajah. 
Maharaja, which I believe means 

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great, king, Maharaja was born 
named karoli, Baba and was a 

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devotee of bhakti-yoga. 
So Ram Dass becomes this 

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spiritual devotee and over time 
becomes the spiritual teacher 

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and one of his gifts was as a 
Westerner who had done really 

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the mainstream Western thing, 
right? 

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Went to college went to graduate
school. 

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Became a Harvard, Professor was 
a good translator of Eastern 

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philosophy to westerners in his 
later. 

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Life, he did not renounce, I 
could Daleks but begin to 

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understand that their point was 
as a tool and a stepping stone, 

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so that people from different 
walks of life. 

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Particularly westerners who 
don't have the same spiritual 

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Traditions as they do in the 
East, we get a glimpse of what 

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is possible through the use of 
psychedelics and then do the 

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inner work, the yoga to be able 
to achieve those states without 

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the psychedelics. 
So in his later life, he Pretty 

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much didn't use psychedelics as 
much and became more interested 

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in the practices of yoga of 
Hindu and Buddhist philosophy, 

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and doing spiritual practices 
and being a spiritual teacher. 

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Okay, he became even more 
well-known after a while because

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he was one of Wayne Dyer's 
teacher. 

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And if you don't know who Wayne 
Dyer, is because we're going 

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back, 50, 60, 70 s 80s. 
If you don't know who Wayne Dyer

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is Wayne Dyer is A nerd, a 
spiritual teacher and kind of is

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a member of like that new age 
royalty by writing books in the 

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70s and 80s and teaching into 
the 90s, okay? 

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So that's who we're talking 
about, we're talking about ROM 

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Das who you know was born in 
1931 and died in 2019. 

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So you had a very long teaching 
life and he created this 

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Foundation or I believe he 
created Adam have been created 

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after his death. 
I'm not Called The Love server 

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member foundation and currently 
the love surf, remember 

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Foundation has a podcast where 
they curate talks of ram. 

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Das has on certain topics. 
So I really enjoy this this 

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podcast, because it allows me to
go deep on one thing. 

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So, they'll take a sample from 
one speech and another speech 

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and put them together in a way 
that really works. 

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For me. 
What I am tripping. 

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Out on right now, is one from 
December on enlightenment? 

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Yeah. 
Enlightenment. 

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This is my quest. 
And if you know me personally 

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like Dawn, you gots a long way 
to go factual, but one of the 

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understandings that I have come 
to, is that, you know, 

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persistence often pays off, 
especially in recovery And in 

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the pursuit of higher, 
Consciousness and better 

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functioning. 
So here I am doing what I can to

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become a more whole more 
complete, more evolved human 

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being. 
And so Along Comes. 

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This Ram Dass podcast and he 
says, something in the context 

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of this podcast, which keeps 
blowing my mind. 

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And I cannot stop thinking about
it. 

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The freezes desire creates the 
universe. 

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Okay, more context. 
Yeah, so it comes in the context

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of him being taught because he 
was a Perpetual student as well 

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as a teacher. 
And his teacher said that 

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desire, Is, you know, desire, 
meaning craving is a problem 

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that it is a form of, what's the
word? 

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I can't even words right now, 
but that desirelessness is 

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Moksha is freedom. 
And the idea being that when we 

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are completely enslaved to our 
Cravings, we are not free and 

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that freedom comes from 
desirelessness. 

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If you're listening closely, 
you're going to recognize a part

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of the teachings of the Buddha. 
Right? 

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All life is suffering. 
And the way you get out of 

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suffering is to let go of 
craving and the way you get out 

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of craving is to follow the 
Eightfold Path. 

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So westerners specifically 
really struggle against this. 

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What do you mean life is 
suffering? 

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We can be happy all the time. 
Well yeah, once you reach 

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enlightenment, Happiness, the 
kind and the Moksha, and the 

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freedom. 
That these spiritual teachers 

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are talking about is not the 
happiness. 

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That goes, there comes from 
suppressing. 

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Your negative feelings, put 
slapping a smile on your face 

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and wandering through life 
getting your ego needs 

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gratified. 
So, when we talk about 

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desirelessness, we're not 
talking about, like, never 

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having preferences, never liking
things, never wanting things. 

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What desirelessness me, Means in
this context and this is where 

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language gets tricky. 
Because there's not necessarily 

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a good English word for it. 
So that's why I like the word 

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craving. 
We're talking about 

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non-attachment to craving to 
we're getting the thing. 

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Great. 
But not getting the thing. 

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Doesn't have to be a disaster. 
So that's the context in which 

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this phrase popped up, desire 
creates the universe. and I 

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think for the kindergarten 
version of that teaching, is 

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Desire. 
Craving wanting seeking pursuing

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attaching creates your Universe,
my universe, the ways in which I

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am controlled by my Cravings, is
creating the universe that I 

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experienced. 
I was talking with someone 

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recently, who is really just 
upset about something. 

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And as you know a good therapist
I was guiding them through. 

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What are you believing to be 
true? 

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That is creating your suffering.
We don't respond to the stimulus

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in our world. 
The thing that happened, we 

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respond to our interpretation 
about the thing that happened. 

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So as we were working through 
that, this particular person 

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began to see, oh my, 
interpretation of this event is 

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that it is so awful. 
I Recover from it. 

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And changing that interpretation
to this is not something that I 

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prefer. 
And I can move forward from this

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was very freeing. 
So, okay, can you here come the 

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doggies. 
We've got, Bertram, whining, and

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panting. 
And then we have eggy with the 

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pitter-patter of little doggie, 
feet crashing into things with 

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her cone of shame after her 
surgery. 

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I'll be fine guys. 
And we good, we say hello. 

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Okay, let me know if you need 
something. 

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So desirelessness. 
Is about not being so attached 

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that hold please. 
So where were we desirelessness?

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Is about not a non-attachment 
non-attachment, not being 

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detached like, I'm holding 
myself apart and I don't care 

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about anything but being 
non-attached. 

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Let's take a side rant care, 
Look up the definition of care 

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and ask yourself if that's what 
you want to be doing. 

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Okay? 
So non-attachment means that, 

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you have your preferences and 
you enjoy the heck out of them 

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and can you be at peace? 
If things go differently. 

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Can you recognize that there is 
a Perfection at the center of 

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everything? 
What there's a Perfection at any

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through the Bubba? 
Okay, maybe. 

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But what if you pretended like 
there were I don't know the 

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capital-t truth about the world 
and the universe and how things 

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go and neither do you. 
So the question becomes, what is

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helpful, what is useful? 
We can get so rigid in these are

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facts when 99% of the time, the 
things to, which we are most 

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attached to our opinions. 
And those opinions create 

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suffering. 
So what if you operated as if 

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there's a Perfection at the 
center of everything that 

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cleaning up? 
Puppy poop off. 

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Your carpet is equally as 
valuable equally as peace, 

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inducing equally as rewarding as
finding a surprise hundred 

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dollars in your pocket of your 
winter coat. 

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Right. 
This is this is what we're 

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talking about that what is 
occurring in the outer world. 

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Is not sufficient to completely 
destroy your peace. 

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So non-attachment is freedom 
which gets us back to desire 

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creates the universe. 
So the surface level 

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understanding, based on all the 
things that I've just said, and 

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some basic spiritual teaching is
that desire is creating your 

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Universe. 
Now, the first objection is 

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going to be if desire recreating
My Universe. 

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I would have a much nicer house,
a much nicer car more. 

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Gorgeous spouse. 
I'm kidding. 

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Some of you think that though I 
would have this amazing life and

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I don't so this response to that
is what are you? 

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Attached to. 
What are you attached to our, 

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you more attached to your story 
about who you are and how life 

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works? 
Then you are to having peace of 

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mind. 
Are you attached to the idea 

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that a good life equals being 
rich and famous? 

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Are you attached to the idea 
that beauty means thinness or 

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low body fat or muscle nests or 
whiteness? 

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Our Thomas. 
What are you attached to? 

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Is it possible? 
Is it possible that if you 

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changed your level of attachment
to what you think things are 

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supposed to be? 
You might discover that the way 

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things are is perfectly 
peaceful. 

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That is the first level in my 
understanding, right? 

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Told you, I don't have answers 
this time. 

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I'm just exploring this 
question. 

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Desire creates the universe so 
Ram, Dass goes on to say, I'm 

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going to lose some of you here, 
I think, but stay with me. 

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Stay with me, be an 
anthropologist exploring with 

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these crazy. 
Spiritual people think surround 

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us, goes on to say that. 
The reason that we are in form 

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is because there's a some part 
of us that desires to be Yes, 

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this is based on the idea that 
we are infinite beings having a 

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specific set of experiences and 
that after this body will do 

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other experiences. 
So that desire creates the 

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universe, the reason that we are
experiencing a physical universe

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is because we have chosen to in 
some way that we desire to in 

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some way that we are. 
Experiencing this experience 

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because we are somehow attached 
to this experience and that if 

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we wanted and these words are so
paltry. 

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But that lets lets for the 
purposes of this conversation, 

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this life is not your only life.
This body is not your only 

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identity. 
So then afterwards, you could 

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experience an entirely different
kind of universe. 

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You could experience an entirely
by early different kind of 

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existence an entirely different 
kind of being That you could be,

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I don't know a demigod of some 
kind and some kind of universe. 

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You could be an energy being, it
could be light being, you could 

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have Anna you know instead of a 
four-dimensional universe could 

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be an 11 dimensional Universe, I
don't know. 

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That's the question desire, 
creates the universe. 

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I don't think ramdas has the 
capital-t truth either. 

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He's a person exploring like the
rest of us. that is a very 

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evocative thing to have said, 
Desire is entrapment 

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desirelessness, his freedom 
hopping over to Buddha the way 

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to freedom is to follow the 
Eightfold Path. and, Desire 

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creates the universe. 
So what would plays in my mind 

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is if that were true, if my 
desires are creating my universe

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and a lot of law of attraction 
to people are going to be like 

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yeah of course. 
But I think that's I think that 

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is a not complete understanding 
because that gets us into 

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victim-blaming. 
Which some people are fine with.

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Some people are fine with 
desire, creates the universe. 

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So anything that is happening to
you you created with your 

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personal desire and therefore 
that's your experience they 

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don't buy that. 
I think it's more complicated 

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than that. 
I think when you have eight 

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billion people wandering around 
somewhere, interacting with each

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other. 
That there is something beyond 

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our personality. 
Something beyond what happens 

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between our two ears that 
creates our experiences. like, 

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I'm not a puppet master. 
I my personality me Dawn did not

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make the dogs come in here and 
make noise. 

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Like that's I don't think that 
that's how the universe works. 

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I think they're little beings. 
I'm a little being lots of 

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people with heart beats on this 
planet right now. 

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So I don't think it's a 
completer or complete 

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understanding to say that your 
personality your Go your brain. 

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You the personality are out here
creating everything that happens

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to you. 
That just doesn't track because 

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they're things that happened. 
That no rational being would 

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choose. 
Yes, I know. 

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We're irrational. 
Okay now, I'm babbling, desire 

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creates the Universe. 
I don't know what that means, 

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but I do know the fact that it 
is sticking in my head means 

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that there's a lesson there for 
me. 

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If it is true that desire 
creates the universe, What do I 

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do with that information? 
And how do I take action from 

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it? 
If it is true that craving 

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creates suffering, that is what 
the Buddha meant by all life is 

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suffering. 
We are craving an attached and 

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non craving creates Freedom. 
How do I release? 

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We're craving. 
In order to achieve Moksha 

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Freedom. 
So that the universe that is 

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created is a universe of Freedom
Universe of Enlightenment, 

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Universe of connectedness a 
universe of being one with 

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everything. 
That's the question. 

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And what coincidences is 
Professor life bringing me to 

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help me along my path. 
My friend row has a newsletter 

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and that always starts with a 
quote and the most recent one I 

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read had a wronged us quote in 
it and like coincidence, 

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deductive, dot, dot, dot, dot, 
dot dot. so I guess, my my offer

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to you is If craving creates 
suffering and non-attachment 

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creates freedom. 
And our attachment or non 

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attachments desires are creating
our universes. 

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What would you like to do, to 
create the universe? 

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You are currently experiencing? 
Okay, y'all. 

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That's what I got. 
That's what I got. 

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You might want to pop into the 
love serve, remember foundation,

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and maybe read some Ram Dass, 
maybe check out Wayne Dyer or 

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maharaji and see if anything of 
their teachings pops for you. 

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desire creates the universe, 
such a provocative thing to 

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think about, and with that, I 
trust that you being whole 

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perfect and complete as you are 
and being worthy and deserving 

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as all the good that there is. 
I'll find a way forward that is 

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beautiful and amazing, and 
joyful, and peaceful, and 

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enriching and fulfilling. 
And delighting and even more 

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fabulous. 
Then your ego mind can imagine. 

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Okay. 
Until next time. 

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I am so honored that you share 
time with me. 

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If you've listened this far, 
then something here was a value 

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00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,400
to you. 
Would you please be a friend of 

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00:20:54,408 --> 00:20:57,400
the podcast and share it with at
least one other person? 

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00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:01,800
The podcast is available on most
platforms including YouTube and 

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00:21:01,900 --> 00:21:04,500
I need your help to get the word
out. 

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00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:08,400
So please like, subscribe, and 
share, and a five star review on

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00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,800
iTunes, would be glad chefs 
kiss. 

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Thank you so much. 
See you next time.