Hello beautiful humans, and welcome to the Mental Wellness
Wake Up Show, a weekly podcast where growthminded, creative
people come to learn best practices from both spirituality
and psychology that create lasting wellbeing.
I am your host, mental Wellness expert, improvised acting
teacher, therapist, and coach Dawn McMillan.
Let's get to it. Welcome you gorgeous people.
Welcome, welcome. We are going to jump right in.
I am having an interesting experience at the moment as I
record this for you. My cough has been kind of bad.
Today we are experiencing some poor air where I am.
I've got a fly buzzing around, but we're just going to go with
it. Why?
Because the present moment is always the only moment.
So let's enjoy it. OK, enniogram, we are doing the
enniogram. So if you're just joining us,
you can jump right in with us to explore this 9 pointed wisdom
system. But and also feel free to hop on
back and listen to the whole series because they they are
independent. But part of what we're doing
here is we're connect all of the enniogram types.
So the Enniogram is 9 points on a circle, and it has been my
contention for a long time that this wisdom system isn't about
navel gazing and justifying why you are how you are.
It's not meant to be a personality thing only because
we're too complex, too delightful, too mysterious, too
amazing to fit into any single description.
Rather, what the Enneagram is showing us is where we are, how
we tend to behave, and it gives us all these wonderful
descriptions of all the other personality types and how we can
relate to them externally. And what I am about is helping
us understand how to integrate them internally.
That's what we're up to. And if you're here for the first
time, one, I'm delighted. And two, let's jump in My
continuing listeners. I adore you, You're here and you
don't have to be. So thank you, Okay.
So let's jump in. All right, So what do we call
the Enneagram 5? The Enneagram 5 is the thinker,
the innovator, the observer, the specialist, the radical, the
expert, the observer. So as we're moving into
Enneagrams 5-6 and seven, you will recall the Enneagram 8-9
and one are considered the body center or the gut center.
These people are more likely to be kinesthetic learners, to go
with their gut to feel things and and be drawn into action
that way. And a lot of the ways that they
end up being characterized as 8-9 or one is in how they
respond to anger. And you'll recall that twos,
threes, and fours are considered our feeling center or our heart
center. These are within more
emotionally driven types, and twos, threes, and fours are
often categorized around their sense of shame.
And anagram fives, at their best, are analytical,
persevering, sensitive, wise, objective, perceptive,
selfcontained. Fives, at their worst, are
intellectually arrogant, stingy, stubborn, distant, critical of
others, unassertive and negative.
Ouch. Oh yeah, okay.
So let's talk about my people, the enniogram 5.
So a lot of people are surprised to learn that I'm an enniogram
5. They're like, you're a goofball
#1, you're an actor #2, and you seem to have social skills.
What do you mean you're an enniogram 5?
And that is just a reminder that you can't always type people by
how they appear. So much of the enniogram is
about what motivates you from the interior, so you can't
always tell. So let's talk some more about
this iniogram Type 5. The investigator Basic fear of
being helpless, useless, incapable or overwhelmed.
The basic desire is to be capable and competent.
And the superego message? Remember superego ego made.
These are our Freudian categories of the interior of a
human being. the IT being our impulses and urges, the ego
being their personality and the Super ego being our conscience
or the voice of society. So any gram fives that super ego
messages you are good or okay if you have mastered something.
So in the Reso Hudson system they talk about Enneagram fives,
the intense cerebral type, perceptive, innovative,
secretive and isolated. So here's a quote from an
Enneagram 5 that they interviewed for this book.
And he says this being A5 means always needing to learn to take
an information about the world a day without learning as like a
day without sunshine as a five. I want to have an understanding
of life. I like having a theoretical
explanation about why things happen as they do.
This understanding makes me feel in charge and in control.
I most often learn from a distance as an observer and not
as a participant. Sometimes it seems that
understanding life is as good as living it.
It is a difficult journey to learn that life must be lived
and not just studied. Wow, totally relatable.
So one of the things to keep in mind if you are in a
relationship with an NA AGRAM 5, one of the things that NA AGRAM
Fives are challenged with is moving into action.
Any Gram Fives love to live inside their head, their books,
their data, their information. You know, I will raise my hand
and confess to being an information hoarder.
Like I love to know things. They don't have to be useful
things. I just love to know things.
And any Gram Fives are often we have our special interests, as
the ADHD kids like to call it. We get our special interests,
and we can sometimes get really obsessed and really go deep with
something. One thing you might notice about
an NIAGRAM 5 is that if we're focused on something, the rest
of the world is dead to us, dead to us.
So if you are in a relationship with an NIAGRAM 5 and you think
they're ignoring you, they're probably just thinking real
hard. So what is an NIAGRAM 5 level of
development? Because what?
Remember, we're looking at finding out where we are or our
loved ones are. And then all of us, regardless
of our primary way of focusing at the world, learning how to
integrate the gifts of the NA agram 5 so that we can all grow
so unhealthy. NA agram 5 at a level 9.
Seeking oblivion Self annihilation Feeling that they
can no longer defend themselves from their pain and terror,
unhealthy fives want to escape from reality.
In some cases they attempt to accomplish this through
psychotic breaks or schizoid withdrawal.
They may also try to escape through suicide.
It could be theorized at the Unabomber was an Anniagram 5 So
proud. OK, so level 8 Horrified.
Delirious At a level 8, Anniagram 5 Fives feel so small
and helpless that almost everything becomes ominous to
them. They're filled with dark
fantasies and strange perceptions.
They resist all help, shrinking away from people into feverish
nightmares and insomnia. They cannot stop their
overheated minds. Sidebar, there's this Turkish TV
show, I think it's called Hot Head maybe.
And it's about this virus that makes people's heads get super
hot. It's really cool.
If you like Turkish TV shows, OK, level 7.
Remember 7-8 and nine in this system, the Rizzo Hudson system.
We're talking about really unhealthy versions of an NA
AGRAM 5. Unhealthy fives fear that they
are incapable of finding a place in the world.
And this may be true. To gain some security, they cut
off all connections with the world, treating into an isolated
and increasingly empty world. They reject all but the most
basic needs, but are still plagued by fears.
So I always imagine, you know you're driving cross country in
the US it's it's a big country. You can drive cross country and
much of it is empty and you'll see like some little house or
trailer like out in the middle of nowhere.
And I always think, who are those people?
Probably an NE AGRAM 5. I'm just saying, OK, moving on
up to an averagely developed any of Gram 5 and so these these
levels are not rigid. I wish that they were that you
could evolve to one and never fall down into a lower level.
However, when we are stressed we can sometimes devolve.
We If you're in this community, we are seeking to love ourselves
as we are and continue to evolve and expand.
However, sometimes we can backtrack a little bit.
And that, my beloved human friends, is no big deal, just
means you're human, OK? Level 6 Niagram fives are
extreme and provocative. Fives fear that others will
threaten the niche they have been creating, so they try to
fend people off. They resent the apparent
confidence and calm of others and enjoy subverting their
beliefs. Their own ideas can be bizarre
and disturbing, and they are scornful of those who cannot
understand them. You've run into this person on
the Internet, I guarantee you. Guarantee you they're the what
abouters. And then they talk about some
conspiracy theory that even other conspiracy theorists think
is odd. Okay.
So moving up Level 5, Level 5, any gram.
Fives are detached and preoccupied.
Five is worried that the needs of others will distract them
from their projects, so they shut out intrusions by
intensifying their mental activity.
They minimize their needs, become high strung, cerebral and
secretive. They spend more time alone
speculating and elaborating on alternative realities.
And so at this level, remember when I said that an Anneagram 5,
if they're really focusing on something, they may not actually
hear you. It's kind of like a superpower
of an enniogram 5. And at this level 5, it's being
turned into a super fault, you know, the minimizing their
needs, right. We're talking, not showering,
forgetting to go to the bathroom, that kind of stuff and
being really immersed in a mental world.
OK, Level 4, conceptualizing, preparing.
So this is the top of the average Enniogram 5 and when you
think about unhealthy average and healthy, I don't think that
we can divide up the population of any of gram fives into thirds
or any of these. It's going, there's going to be
different levels of distribution throughout any particular
society or culture. The other thing to keep in mind
is that the any gram numbers are not distributed equally.
For example, my people, the any of gram fives are very small
part of the population. It's believed that much of the
American population, or any of gram sixes for example, so on
and so forth, just something that you a rabbit hole that you
can go down. If you're a nanny or Graham 5
and you love rabbit holes, OK, where was I?
Level 4? Conceptualizing and preparing
fives begin to fear that their skills are insufficient and that
they need to prepare more before they can take their place in the
world. They feel unsure of themselves
in many areas, preferring to inhabit the safety of their
minds. They study, practice, and
collect more knowledge, resources, and skills.
So one of the weaknesses of being in any Agram 5 is the
ability to research, right? So I noticed this in myself.
I love to collect certifications.
I love to collect degrees. I can research the heck out of
something. But what any agram fives are
challenged to do is to move in to a bias toward action.
That's the growth edge for any agram fives out of your head and
into your body. And one way that shows up is the
enniogram system can be grouped in many different ways.
Right now we're doing the bird's eye view of grouping by body
centers. But another way that enniograms
are grouped are how they sort of shift into behaving like other
Enniogram types, whether they're well resourced or stressed.
So a well resourced Enneagram 5 is actually going to move into
being a little bit like an Enneagram 8, right?
And Enneagram eights take action.
They're very action oriented. Sometimes it gets them in
trouble, right, because they're going to go with their gut,
They're going to jump into action.
They're going to make things happen.
So as an Enneagram 5 becomes more integrated, they're going
to bring in more of that Enneagram 8 energy.
OK, now we're moving into Healthy Woohoo.
So the Level 3 of Healthy Anagram 5 is focused and
innovative. Fives reinforce their self-image
by mastering a body of knowledge or skills that will make them
competent and strong. Not wishing to compete with
others, they prefer to explore new ideas and forms.
Their tinkering can result in profoundly original ideas,
inventions, and art. Whoop Whoop okay.
Moving up level 2 Healthy anagram 5 is observant and
perceptive. Fives focus on the environment
so they can feel confident to function in it and develop
skills to defend against their basic fear self-image.
I am smart, curious and independent and then moving up
to a level. One well integrated, healthy and
Eogram 5 is going to be participating and visionary.
Fives let go of the belief that they are separate from the
environment and outside observer and are thus able to confidently
engage in life. They also paradoxically achieve
their basic desire to be capable and competent and able to live
in the world. They then become clearminded,
knowing, profound and compassionate.
So you can see that this this tendency that an Agram fives
have to think and analyze and observe and deeply explore when
it's used in a holistic way and when it's used in collaboration
with the environment, meaning the people and the things around
them, you can actually have an annagram 5 be a real
contribution to others. So if you are an nnagram 5,
first of all holla. Second of all, your your social
role is the expert and what you are guided to do is to connect,
to connect. Do not minimize your needs.
You have a body run, jump, yoga, bike, hoop, whatever you need to
do, use your body. Because it is so easy for us to
get lost in our heads. And I know it's fun in there,
it's fun in there, but come out into the real world.
There's a quote from from an Anagram 5 here in the Reeso
Hudson book, which is I don't need much, but I need my space.
Yeah. So over here in the The Baron
Wigeli book, what I like about being a 5.
Standing back and viewing life objectively.
Coming to a thorough understanding.
Perceiving causes and defects. My sense of integrity.
Doing what I think is right and not being influenced by social
pressure. Not being caught up in material
possessions and status. Being calm in a crisis.
That's my superpower. What's hard about being a 5?
Being slow to put my knowledge and insights out in the world?
Feeling bad when I act defensive or like a know it all?
Oh my God. Middle school, Junior high
school. Me.
Not so good. Being pressured to be with
people when I don't want to be. What's hard about being A5?
Watching others with better social skills but less
intelligence or technical skill do better professionally, or
having trouble expressing some of my thoughts succinctly.
So that's our aniagram or aniagram 5 So I'm just flipping
through my my books to see if there's any other little juicy
tidbits. OK, here's a good quote.
GK Chesterton At the back of our brains, so to speak, there's a
forgotten blaze or a burst of astonishment at our own
existence. The object of the artistic and
spiritual life is to dig for the submerged sunrise of wonder.
Ooh, that's good. Oh, this is getting along.
Of course. I'm like, it's me.
Yeah, it's me. So our invitation for all of us
is it's about the balance of internal and external.
So if you are not an NIAGRAM 5, what you can borrow from the
niagram 5 is that moment of observation and seeking
understanding before reacting to explore what is with your head,
heart and body and then react then respond.
So in cognitive behavioral therapy, all the behavioral
therapies. We talk about the space between
stimulus and response before the cause and the effect.
There is a space, and if you can insert your attention and your
awareness and your consciousness into that space, you no longer
have to be triggered into behaving in ways that don't
serve you. And that's a gift you can get
from the Aneagram 5. Learn, observe, consider, think,
analyze, and then integrate that with your heart, wisdom, your
body, wisdom, and all the other gifts that you uniquely bring to
the world. All right.
Oh, there you go. So next we're going to be diving
into the Enniogram 6, which is super cool because eniogram
sixes show up in two different types.
I know, it almost makes me think there should be like a six and a
six prime or something like that.
If you've listened this far, you're awesome.
And I really feel compelled to know, to tell you.
And you know I know because as an anagram 5 I have the research
with the footnotes. OK, so hear me now.
Believe me later, you're wonderful.
Seriously, I want you to go look at yourself in the mirror and
just be in awe of yourself. Think of everything you lived
through and here you are, doing your best with what you have.
And let me tell you, you look good while you're at it.
You are whole. You are perfect, you are
complete, and you are worthy and deserving of all good things.
Until next time.