1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,560 You know, to come at you with this language of institutional 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,960 concern like safety, when so many of the rules around the 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:12,560 institutional concerns are not actually grounded in reality of 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,000 what keeps people safe. Because we know that what keeps 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,480 people safe in much more sustainable big picture long 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,520 term ways is community and knowing each other and trusting 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,200 each other and knowing how to grow their own food right and 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,600 take care of lands like this would make us so much safer than 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:37,760 knowing how to sanitize sand that kids are playing in or, you 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,960 know, keeping kids at home online away from each other. 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,360 That doesn't create any kind of safety in a long term way. 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,240 And so it does feel like there is a kind of collective battle 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,920 right now of what I'm going to just say is, you know, organic 14 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:58,600 human experience and need against the cold, mechanized 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,040 bureaucracy of the state and really like the technocratic 16 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,160 state. You know, that we want everybody 17 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,760 online. We want to be able to enforce 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,400 our curriculum, you know, in a kind of mass distribution 19 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,720 through these different programs that all the, you know, families 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,440 need to be enrolled in if they're not going to go to 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,120 public school or they're wiping out the education department 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,720 completely, but at the same time not supporting people to really 23 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,520 take on education for themselves. 24 00:01:45,060 --> 00:01:48,180 Hello and welcome to Embodied Astrology, where we explore 25 00:01:48,180 --> 00:01:52,260 astrology as a language of light, life, and experience and 26 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:55,540 experiment with it in ways that can be applied in any direction 27 00:01:55,580 --> 00:01:58,820 to help us engage with more intention, alignment, awareness, 28 00:01:58,820 --> 00:02:01,780 and ease. My name is Renee Sills, I'm a 29 00:02:01,780 --> 00:02:05,660 second generation astrologer and somatic educator, an artist, a 30 00:02:05,660 --> 00:02:08,660 community organizer, and the host of Embodied Astrology, 31 00:02:08,660 --> 00:02:10,620 which is much more than just a podcast. 32 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,680 Along with our monthly free horoscopes for all signs and 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,800 special episodes such as this one, we offer weekly and monthly 34 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,280 virtual classes and workshops, peer LED learning spaces, 35 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,840 practitioner programs, and more. It's Sagittarius season in 2025 36 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,760 and the day I'm releasing this podcast is the day of the Gemini 37 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,400 Full Moon. The axis and opposition between 38 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,440 Sagittarius and Gemini is an important one for students and 39 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,880 teachers, learners and seekers. This axis is an especially 40 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,400 important one in my chart as a person with the North Node, 41 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,600 Chiron and Vista, and Gemini and Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and the 42 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,200 South Node and Sagittarius. I'm a lifelong learner, 43 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,040 enthusiastic seeker, dedicated student, and extremely honored 44 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,600 and grateful to get to be a teacher in this lifetime. 45 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,920 As anyone who has ever taught anything knows, teaching 46 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:01,280 something to others is really the way to learn it for 47 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,520 yourself. And in the transmission of 48 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,040 information, knowledge, and practice, the wisdom of what 49 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,920 we're working with gets to be embodied. 50 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,200 That said, it takes a special kind of courage and strength to 51 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,800 be the kind of teacher who remains an active and open 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,560 student. So often we're taught that not 53 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,200 knowing is something to be ashamed of or feel that we 54 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,080 shouldn't question what we think we know or others think they 55 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,280 know. But in my experience, the best 56 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,880 teachers are the first to admit the limits of their knowledge 57 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:31,160 and will willingly humble themselves to learn and practice 58 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:32,960 and practice and learn some more. 59 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,840 My guest this season is a teacher and seeker like this. 60 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,360 Sage Hamilton will turn 80 years old in 2026 and has been 61 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,920 teaching for over half her life, guiding growth and exploration 62 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,720 with people ranging in age from 5 to 65. 63 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,760 Sage is a double Pisces Sun and rising with a Libra Moon. 64 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,160 She was born in California to Italian immigrant parents and 65 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,240 raised in a strict Catholic household and education. 66 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,600 Always an avid learner and deeply spiritual person, as a 67 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,680 young child she thought she would become a nun, but the nuns 68 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,240 who were her teachers told her she wasn't smart enough and to 69 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,040 train to be a secretary instead. After a friend encouraged her to 70 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,440 take night classes and go to college, she ended up graduating 71 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,519 at the top of her class with a master's in education and became 72 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:20,240 a school teacher. Her first teaching job LED her 73 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,120 to leave Los Angeles where she had lived her whole life and 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,720 moved to Red River, Idaho where she fell madly in love and 75 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,880 became deeply connected with nature and the wild outdoors, 76 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,120 catalyzing a lifetime of her own rewilding and remembering her 77 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,400 connections with plants, animals, elements and earth. 78 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,160 After earning a Master's in Education, experiencing 2 failed 79 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,760 marriages and becoming a parent, Sage left Idaho with her young 80 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,600 daughter and no plan. They ended up at Esslin 81 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,800 Institute in Big Sur, CA where she encountered Anthroposophy 82 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,960 and the work of Rudolf Steiner, which led her to complete a 83 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,640 Waldorf teacher training where she met her soulmate and life 84 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,600 partner, Christopher. Sage and her family moved again 85 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,200 after she and Christopher both landed jobs at the Shining 86 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,560 Mountain Waldorf School in Boulder, Co, where she guided a 87 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,720 class for eight years through the complete Waldorf curriculum. 88 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,400 As alternative as it was, Waldorf was still too formulaic 89 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,480 for Sage's wild spirit, so she left in the late 1990s to pursue 90 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,320 creating her own program based on experiential education and 91 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,080 unschooling, and she's been at it ever since. 92 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,280 Along the way, over the last 30 plus years, Sage apprenticed for 93 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:31,920 many years with Melodoma and Sabanfo Somay in the work of 94 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,000 village tending and community ritual. 95 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,240 She trained intensively with Sophia Diaz and earned her 96 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,840 certification in Kripalu Yoga, and she has been a committed 97 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:44,360 spiritual practitioner and devotee of the perennial wisdoms 98 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,800 of love and conscious awakening. In 2005, Sage started a Living 99 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,040 Learning program to support homeschoolers, unschoolers, and 100 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,360 others who choose to break away from traditional education. 101 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,280 She has worked with dozens of families and multiple 102 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:01,400 generations of families, including children and parents 103 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,800 and grandparents, reawakening natural intelligence and 104 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,280 curiosity through nature based learning and cultivating depth 105 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:11,160 and intimacy of relationship with the Earth and its cycles 106 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,320 and seasons. Sage's unique facilitation style 107 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,600 is anchored in engagement with myth, storytelling, creative 108 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,160 arts and theater and includes anyone and everyone who is 109 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,520 present and wishes to join. Since it began, her program 110 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,720 morphs and shifts with seasonal changes and the interests and 111 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,280 needs of those who attend. I am infinitely blessed and 112 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:34,400 forever grateful to be 1 of Sage's first unschooling 113 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,960 students. And as you'll hear us talk about 114 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,280 in this season's episode, I credit her literally with saving 115 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:43,280 my life through her curiosity and willing engagement with the 116 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:46,440 parts of me that were completely shut down by the public school 117 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,360 system. Though it's been many years now 118 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,120 since I was one of Sage's active students, she has remained a 119 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,520 mentor and possibility model for me throughout my life and is 120 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,720 someone I regularly seek inspiration, wisdom, and company 121 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,800 from. One of the things I find most 122 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,920 inspiring about Sage is her willingness and enthusiasm to 123 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,320 change. She is constantly following her 124 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,520 own attention in ways that have kept her vital engaged and 125 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,600 thriving into her eldership. Sage's daughter, Ayana has now 126 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,760 moved into leadership in their unschooling program over the 127 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,760 last year. Due to circumstances that are 128 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,640 complicated and heartbreaking, and that have a lot to do with 129 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,400 government overreach and intentional shutdown of nature 130 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,600 based learning programs, Sage and Ayana have had to shift 131 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,120 course as they adjust and evolve into their next iteration, They 132 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,760 are making some of their curriculum available online. 133 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,920 If you're interested in working with kids and families through 134 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,280 theater and music, you can now find several plays written by 135 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,480 Sage and her community, along with guidance for learning 136 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,800 through storytelling and theater making on their website, 137 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,840 sageprograms.com. I've dropped that link in the 138 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,280 show notes where you can also find more information about 139 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,080 embodied astrology and our approach to experiential 140 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,920 learning, which has been deeply influenced by Sage. 141 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,560 I'm excited to share this episode with you. 142 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:07,360 Thanks so much for being here. OK, Sage, thanks so much for 143 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,640 having this call with me and welcome to the Embodied 144 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,480 Astrology Podcast. It's a thrill to have you on as 145 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:22,840 a guest and you are the most close personal relationship 146 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:28,120 guest I have ever had on this show and the person who I've 147 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,440 known the longest. So as a guest on Embodied 148 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,039 Astrology. So it feels really special to 149 00:08:36,039 --> 00:08:39,039 have you here. Thank you for for being here. 150 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:44,039 You're welcome and love getting to be with you in any way I can. 151 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,120 That's so cute. Thanks, Sage. 152 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,120 You've always been such a cute icon for me. 153 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,840 I think I told you I get my my fashion inspiration from you. 154 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,160 And I was thinking that this morning because I was putting on 155 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,320 this, you know, kind of wool flannel over shirt that's big. 156 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,720 Wait, Sage would love this shirt. 157 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,080 It's like this cozy because it's so cold here. 158 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,600 That looks cool. You're coming in as a guest in 159 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,360 Sagittarius season and we'll put this podcast out near the Gemini 160 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:27,960 full moon and the Sagittarius Gemini axis is an axis that is 1 161 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,880 often associated with learning and teaching. 162 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:37,320 All of the polarity axes in astrology represent what could 163 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,840 be considered opposites, but are often part of the same thing. 164 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:48,000 And so the axis of Sagittarius in Gemini is an axis that holds 165 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,600 a polarity between the big picture of something, this is 166 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,320 Sagittarius, and the small details which is Gemini. 167 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,640 Gemini is associated with learning and curiosity and 168 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,680 asking questions and making connections between this thing 169 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:12,600 and that thing, and Sagittarius is associated with the synthesis 170 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,960 and the philosophy and the perennial truths that are 171 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,360 gleaned from the combination and the bringing together the 172 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,840 coherence of the details. Both Gemini and Sagittarius are 173 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:33,160 associated with storytelling and mythology and how our minds and 174 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,840 consciousness get shaped through the ways that we give and 175 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:43,160 receive information, and also through the ways that we respond 176 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,120 to our own curiosity and go on our own quests for learning and 177 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,640 seeking. And this is really where you and 178 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,000 I came together over 30 years ago, or I think about 30 years 179 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,080 ago now. Yeah. 180 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,200 Do you remember? Of course, when it was. 181 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:09,600 What do you remember? What I remember is, I presume 182 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,200 that your mom contacted me because of Melissa, that 183 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,720 connection. I mean, I, I don't, I have no 184 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,600 idea how, but she contacted me and she had heard that I work 185 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,320 with young people and that I'm not real supportive of 186 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,720 mainstream educational programs for particularly people that in 187 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,320 the end I met you and it was like, Oh my gosh, this is the 188 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,080 worst nightmare come true for this person. 189 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,600 But she made an appointment and she came with you. 190 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,680 She looked like a wreck. And you were a vision of the 191 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:47,720 night you had, I don't know if your hair was dyed blacker than 192 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,480 it could possibly be, but it was black. 193 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:55,360 And you had black nail Polish, black clothes, a black aura, 194 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:05,280 were very angry and frustrated, gifted young woman who knew that 195 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,240 what she was doing with her life at that point was very 196 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,360 destructive for her soul. It's just destruction. 197 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,920 And I mean, I just sort of read the signs and I'd met enough 198 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,520 people, not that point because I was very involved in helping 199 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,880 kids get out, you know, break away. 200 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:29,840 And I was like, oh, OK, here's a, here's a fugitive from the 201 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,480 system almost because your mom was saying, I cannot let her 202 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,200 out. If I do, I just, I'm sure she'll 203 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,880 die. She'll just die. 204 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,440 She'll do something very destructive and it'll end up 205 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,280 killing her. And so we had very, very long 206 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,560 talk. And I was completely in 207 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:53,200 alignment with what I thought you needed, which was to get 208 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,920 out. And I talked to your mom in 209 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,040 front of you about, you know, what that could look like. 210 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,440 But in front of you was really hard to talk with her because 211 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,400 the two of you were really very oppositional to one another a 212 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,640 lot. And in the end, she walked away, 213 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,640 you know, thinking she was going to think about it and wanted to 214 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,920 talk to me more. And my whole advice was for her 215 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,840 to let you out and to trust the process and that I would be 216 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,400 delighted to help walk through it with you guys. 217 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,480 And it was very emotional. It was the tension between the 218 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,280 two of you was so strong that I said, well, if we're going to 219 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,800 meet in the future, I think I'd rather do it separately. 220 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,280 And, and I got my clutches on you. 221 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,800 And you ended up joining our little group of young people who 222 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,880 had busted loose from stuff. And we were writing, you know, 223 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,480 which was probably a really good thing for you to get to do. 224 00:13:54,280 --> 00:14:01,200 And you met Ayana and my daughter, and your bond has been 225 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,600 long lasting as well. And she went through a lot of 226 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,480 crises with you, including the death of your mom, who you 227 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,600 finally were able to reconcile with. 228 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,880 And she could see the beauty of you beginning to flower because 229 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,040 you got out of a destructive system that was sucking the life 230 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,840 out of you. It was amazing to watch you 231 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,200 flourish, creating your own life experiences that would serve you 232 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,640 where you were at that moment in time in your life. 233 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,080 And you brought artists together to teach you. 234 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:40,040 And you got in a very creative self exploration program with 235 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,040 Melissa. And I went, wow, she really is 236 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,440 something you know, and let's see if we can support her 237 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,280 becoming who she's meant to be. And here you are, beautiful. 238 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,120 Wow, thanks for that. I'm going to go back a little 239 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,680 bit to fill in some details for people listening. 240 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:08,640 So when I was 13, I think I was 13 when my mom found you through 241 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,080 her contact with Melissa Michaels, who's someone that 242 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,240 I've definitely talked about at Embodied Astrology. 243 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,920 Melissa is the leader, guide, teacher, human connecting 244 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,800 network that brought Ramon Parish and I together as well. 245 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,440 It's been an Embodied Astrology facilitator and more recently, 246 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,000 Syed Menswear, who's doing a workshop series at EA. 247 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,560 And at that point, at 13 years old, I was suicidal. 248 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,480 I was running away from home for long periods of time. 249 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,520 My mom had tried all kinds of disciplinary measures with me. 250 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:51,880 I didn't listen. I broke out and I really hated 251 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,040 school. I, I had loved school as a 252 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,240 younger person and then getting into junior high school or 253 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,080 middle school, I really started to hate it. 254 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,520 And I didn't want to go. And my mom couldn't really 255 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,920 conceive of how that could happen in a good way. 256 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,320 But she was an astrologer, and she did have my chart. 257 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,600 And at least she had an orientation towards 258 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:23,320 understanding that I had innate chart, chart, chart verified and 259 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,600 confirmed placements that, you know, I really needed to be my 260 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,760 own authority. And so she found you. 261 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:36,040 And you had been a Waldorf teacher for over a decade, but 262 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,360 you're really a person who needs to be your own authority as 263 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,720 well. And so even though Waldorf is so 264 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,920 much more expansive and creative than a lot of public school was 265 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,120 still too narrow and boxed in for you. 266 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,960 And so that I believe, was the first year that you were really 267 00:16:53,960 --> 00:17:00,360 exploring supporting young people to unschool and you were 268 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,280 thinking about how to be an unschooling mentor and guide. 269 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,640 And so you took me on. You graciously took me on. 270 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,079 And I loved you right away. I remember at that time I was 271 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:15,400 definitely a punk. I was a goth, as you described. 272 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,960 And as many, you know, tween Goths do, I loved vampires and 273 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,560 you just got right into it with me. 274 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,560 You weren't scared at all. You were totally fascinated. 275 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,760 You all had your own love of vampires and you were like, 276 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:33,080 let's go there. And then you had this this 277 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:38,280 writing group, and we met twice a week and it was very much cast 278 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:44,440 of misfits and oddballs, you know, teenagers who for various 279 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,040 reasons found you and trusted you. 280 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,000 And then you mentioned your daughter Ayana, who's my 281 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,040 longest, closest friend that I got to meet through you. 282 00:17:55,040 --> 00:18:00,960 And so I just want to say, Sage, that I really consider you one 283 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,000 of my most important teachers and mentors in my life. 284 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,280 You said you thought my mom thought I would die if I left 285 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,960 school. I knew I would die if I stayed 286 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,280 in it. That's the truth right there. 287 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,160 That is the truth. Yeah, I, I was suicidal. 288 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,760 I really was not feeling like I could stay there in any of it. 289 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,480 And meeting you and the world that you started to open for me 290 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,600 and in my own agency and curiosity and the way that you 291 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:37,640 were not scared at all of the hard place that I was in or this 292 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,280 kind of, you know, intense aura that that I had. 293 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,640 You just welcomed me so wholeheartedly. 294 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:49,760 And I think, I think you and Melissa and my mom, you know, in 295 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,800 the ways that you collaborated, really saved my life at that 296 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,880 point, trusting me. And I'm looking at our charts 297 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,080 and, you know, you and I both have really important placements 298 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,760 in the signs of Sagittarius and Gemini. 299 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,840 One that is just popping out right away is that our nodal 300 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,880 axis is almost exactly the same. So the North and the South nodes 301 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,800 are the places where eclipses happen. 302 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:20,400 Every 18 years or so they return to the same place. 303 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:27,480 To be a nodal twin with somebody who is not your age is a really 304 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:32,000 special generational sinistry. And so you and I are both people 305 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,440 who have the North Node in Gemini and the South Node in 306 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,440 Sagittarius. And the nodal axis in astrology 307 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,080 is considered to be linked with past lives and karma. 308 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,560 And the South Node talks about what you have already done, what 309 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,600 you're coming from, the karmic past life, generational DNA 310 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,120 inheritance that you have, however you want to think about 311 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,480 it, But what you're coming in with already, and in some ways 312 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,480 what you have to let go of in order to do what you're here to 313 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,320 do, this lifetime. And the North Node is the 314 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,400 evolutionary path. This is the place where you are 315 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,920 compelled. Even when it feels super 316 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,360 challenging and confusing and you don't know how it's going to 317 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:20,320 be done or it feels really hard, but you have to go in this new 318 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,040 direction. So people like us who have the 319 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,720 South Node and Sagittarius are people. 320 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,840 And I don't mean to, you know, toot our own horns or whatever, 321 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,760 but I've heard this from so many astrologers. 322 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,240 You know, we are people who have had so many past lives as 323 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,400 teachers already. You know, we're people who come 324 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,040 in seeking wisdom and also containing and having a lot of 325 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:48,400 wisdom, people who are naturally drawn to deep knowledge paths, 326 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,960 the perennial wisdoms, philosophy, religion, mythology, 327 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,480 mysticism, esoteric teachings in the occult. 328 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,640 And we take to them really quickly. 329 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,640 You know, we start to learn them and get the big picture rapidly. 330 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,800 And I, I think you and I are both people like that. 331 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:13,320 But in this lifetime, we're not here to be group types. 332 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:18,720 We have a strong mistrust of hierarchical wisdom models, 333 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,720 right? So that one guy up at the front 334 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,480 of the classroom or the one guy on the dais, you know, the one 335 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,040 who is channelling to the mini, you and me both kind of feel 336 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,680 suspicious of those types. And we're both people who really 337 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:42,240 need to learn and cultivate knowledge in more horizontal and 338 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,720 peer or collaborative kinds of learning spaces. 339 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:51,320 We trust that our colleagues and peers and people who are younger 340 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,440 than us also have a lot of knowledge. 341 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,360 We trust that the mini voices are what actually will bring the 342 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,720 wisdom through that it's not the one voice of the enlightened, 343 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,000 you know, one being, but it's the mini. 344 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,200 And there's something about I think having the North Node in 345 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:15,360 Gemini that really needs to democratize learning and give 346 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,720 everybody the role of the teacher and everybody the role 347 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,680 of the student all at the same time. 348 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,120 And there's a very kind of fractal orientation or prismatic 349 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:30,440 orientation towards learning. And I think you and I are both 350 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,200 people who've done things like inviting, inviting lots of 351 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,000 different people to come and teach, for example, or trying to 352 00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:42,160 put together groups where everybody in the group is a 353 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,200 leader in the group. So I'll pause there and just 354 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,240 ask, Yeah. What resonates for you or pings? 355 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,360 And have you thought about your North and South nodes before? 356 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,960 I know you've worked a little bit with astrology, not much, 357 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,320 but. It's beautiful listening to your 358 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,240 language. And of course, you know, the the 359 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,520 depth of my appreciation and understanding of astrology is 360 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,560 really very limited. But I like hearing all of those 361 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,600 words that, you know, somebody wrote down and figured out. 362 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,600 And I just know that about you and me. 363 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,720 I mean, we really do have a really strong connection. 364 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,480 No matter whether I see you once every 10 years or, you know, 365 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,280 recently we've had a little bit of flow back and forth. 366 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,400 The connection is strong. And I agree, you know, we're 367 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,600 both fringy. And you know, this experience 368 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,320 that that I'm having right now is a reality that there are 369 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,920 forces that are really interested in subduing fringers 370 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,600 a lot. Well, I want to go what you were 371 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,280 saying. The the thing about seeing 372 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,760 wisdom and teaching that comes from all directions. 373 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,800 And it has, I've said these words out loud to a lot of 374 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:07,360 people too, that the my work is my life and it's my purpose. 375 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:13,920 And I walk into any situation, the people that I hire to be 376 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:19,480 assistants or colleagues or the children that I open my doors to 377 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,440 and their families, that that's my landscape of personal and 378 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,680 spiritual growth. These are my teachers. 379 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:31,480 And if things are going wrong in any of those areas, the first 380 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,400 thing I often do is just look to myself and what's my role in 381 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,720 this. And the idea of working with 382 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,640 communities of people has always been part of my life work as 383 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,080 well. And I just had the opportunity 384 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,960 to be in a writing class that's happening, a woman who is using 385 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,640 our facility right now. And so I was sitting in the 386 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,280 class and there was a decent sized number of people sitting 387 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,520 in a circle and they all had their writing pads on their 388 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,080 laps. And they were all, you know, 389 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,360 engaged and listening and they were they, there was some 390 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:09,360 conversation and then they were all put back into writing. 391 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,760 And so they went from sort of being connected in this circle, 392 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:19,560 but very peripherally really, if you ask me, to something that 393 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,440 was a solo. They're sitting there and 394 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,400 they're writing in a book and she wanted a lot of feedback 395 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,600 after I was in this group because she was asking me to 396 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,760 witness what she does and give her information and feedback. 397 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,160 And the whole thing that really resonated with me was how 398 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,400 isolated everybody felt to me. They're just in their little 399 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,040 seat with their little book and they're it's not saying a lot. 400 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,480 And once in a while they would share what they wrote, but it 401 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,920 nobody like connected with it. It was just sharing, and then 402 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,840 everybody would say a couple of words that the person wrote that 403 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,480 they thought were enlivening or whatever, and they went about 404 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,160 it. And so we talked a lot about 405 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,360 what she was trying to do as a writer and how that's different 406 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:06,880 than community things and stuff like that. 407 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,080 And I said, well, I can't, I can't even relate to you from 408 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,240 the perspective of how isolated it felt and not wanting to try 409 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,760 to help you figure out how to connect. 410 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,760 These people would make a connection, a human connection 411 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,920 with who these individuals are and start building the community 412 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:33,960 of the writing class. And, and it was, I had no idea I 413 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,680 would go in that direction. But it's the only thing I think 414 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,320 about, and it's the only thing that's going to get anything 415 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,080 figured out in this crazy world is we figure out how to be with 416 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:53,120 one another and how to connect and no grow Anyway, Yeah. 417 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,760 Yeah, I feel that as well in the work that I do. 418 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:03,400 And a lot of what happens at embodied astrology spaces is 419 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,640 self reflective. You know, we, a lot of the 420 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,880 spaces that we need are for people to kind of explore their 421 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,080 own process. And we might have even somewhat 422 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,400 of a similar structure in terms of how people share things. 423 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,920 And there might not be so much connection within the group in 424 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,880 all of our events. But the intention and the 425 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,440 momentum of embodied astrology has been progressively moving 426 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,560 towards bringing people more into community and connection. 427 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,520 I, I think community is a word that at the moment I'm 428 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,920 struggling with a little bit because it's so overused, but to 429 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,360 bring people into connection and to facilitate deepening 430 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,560 relationship so that those relationships end up guiding the 431 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,320 space rather than my idea or the facilitator's idea of what 432 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,960 should happen. And one thing that is just true 433 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,360 about, you know, doing that kind of work is that it requires time 434 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:10,480 and the softness or the willingness to share and to be 435 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,720 vulnerable and to receive questions and also to like offer 436 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,560 feedback and stuff like this. And that, in my experience at 437 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,600 least, is not taught in public school. 438 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,680 It's often not modelled in work environments or family 439 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,360 environments. In our larger society as 440 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,640 Americans, you know, we do not see that model at all. 441 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:37,960 What we see is top down leadership and I know that you 442 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,480 know, having a Gemini N node for me and a Sagittarius S node, a 443 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,640 lot of the time I would rather just go off onto the mountaintop 444 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,360 by myself. You know, I think that this 445 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:54,520 Sagittarius S node, it is this feeling of having a lot of 446 00:28:54,520 --> 00:29:01,520 comfort and familiarity and desire for personal truth and 447 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,680 expansion and connection or communion with the divine, 448 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,600 however that might be language or conceived of. 449 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:16,880 But then there is this constant unstopping compulsion to be with 450 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,120 people and to share with people and to ask everybody to come 451 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,720 down from the mountain and meet in the valley together, you 452 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,080 know, and share. And for me, that oftentimes 453 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,480 feels like a big struggle because what happens in 454 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,640 community spaces can be frustrating. 455 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,960 It can be slow, it can be confusing. 456 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,000 All kinds of power dynamics and conflicts can come up. 457 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,960 Then time and process and letting go of ego and changing 458 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,400 the plans are all required. I feel like I'm in a constant 459 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,600 learning about this and having known you for three decades now, 460 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,080 which is blowing my mind. I've seen you navigate these 461 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,360 kinds of situations over and over again. 462 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,280 And I'm wondering what have you learned about what it takes for 463 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,880 people to be together and to lead together and to teach each 464 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,040 other? Because I, I know that you have 465 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:13,600 bumped into the wall and you've gotten all kinds of harsh 466 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,800 feedback. You've had people get real mad 467 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,400 at you. You've experienced community 468 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,760 falling apart and you've also experienced a lot of different 469 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,040 kinds of repair. Well, one thing I'm really good 470 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,520 at is conflict resolution. Truly tell us about it. 471 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,760 I. Learned from my own personal 472 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,000 experiences. I have a really intense 473 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:39,960 personality and I tend to speak very directly, but I know what 474 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,880 brings people together the best way, and I learned it over the 475 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,880 years of the work that I had. My whole gesture was when I 476 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,280 finally left institutions and sort of created my own was that 477 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,920 I was not interested in academia. 478 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,280 Nothing. Reading, writing, math, history, 479 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,840 history. Why would anybody go study 480 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,040 history? It's there's nothing true in any 481 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,000 of most of those history books forever. 482 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,640 But what I realized was I wanted to work with communities of 483 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,760 people, not just kids, but also with their parents and the staff 484 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,440 that we had. We would create a sort of fake 485 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,120 village community kind of situation where people came and 486 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,920 the parents were always involved in what we were doing. 487 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,800 We would open in the mornings with a morning circle. 488 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,560 We would end the day with a afternoon circle and all of the 489 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,840 parents were invited to be there so that the kids had the feeling 490 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,160 that they were being held within the context of a group of 491 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,600 people, a cluster of families that were interested in their 492 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,160 best. And then I would think of all of 493 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,000 these ways that I could seduce the parents to coming in and 494 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,760 being a part of what we were doing. 495 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,120 Oh, we're crafting or we're making sets for our play. 496 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,000 Can you come in? Can you help us? 497 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,480 Oh, we're the kids. You know, their voices are so 498 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,720 small. They really need support to be 499 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,240 successful in the performances. You know, and performance was 500 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,840 probably the highlight of everything I've ever done with, 501 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,720 with people, adults or children. And they of course wanted to do 502 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,200 it because it wasn't about them, it was for their kids. 503 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,800 So I'd say they need support. Can you be in a choir? 504 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,480 Can you help us, you know, learn these songs that Megan wrote and 505 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,320 that we, when we like to offer and the kids just get really 506 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,320 quiet when they're performing and stuff. 507 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,600 This would really help the play snap. 508 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,120 And of course they wanted to do it for their kids and all of 509 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,840 these people who really came from different walks of life and 510 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,760 stuff. We're suddenly singing in the 511 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,960 choir and then putting on costumes to match the play. 512 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,600 You know, like we did Maya the bee and everybody dressed like 513 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,160 an insect while we were in up there singing and stuff. 514 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,720 But anyway, and then because Megan and I were very serious 515 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,320 about the story material that we used and that it was high 516 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,040 teaching, we would do an adult gathering where we spoke to the 517 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,000 medicine of the story, which was a children's story, fairy tale, 518 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,360 myth or legend, that sort of thing. 519 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,840 But this was to speak to the adult and the the medicine that 520 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,920 came out of the story. And sometimes we would even 521 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,920 workshop it a little, which kept, you know, this one thing, 522 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,160 the story that turned into a performance that I tried to 523 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,320 bring everybody in. Could they help pay the sets? 524 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,280 Could they help work with the the story material, the lines 525 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,480 and stuff with the kids or whatever. 526 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,920 And everybody got on board, not because they wanted to improve 527 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,760 themselves or be community people, but because it was for 528 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,680 their child. And suddenly there's the 529 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,320 everybody has a common vision. We are going to make this the 530 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,880 most successful thing so our kids experience success. 531 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,520 An it's never not worked. It's never not worked. 532 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,000 I afterwards this the most amazing thing I ever did. 533 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,320 I'm just so happy to be a part of all of this or people running 534 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,120 up to me afterwards and saying I want to be a part of this. 535 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,280 What can I do? And I go, I don't know, you 536 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,600 know, I mean, I don't know how to make you a part. 537 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,679 We just have a staff, you know, and if you parent and child you 538 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:28,400 want in the program, we could do that and maybe I could hire you. 539 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:35,440 I don't, but, but, and, and through the, the performances, 540 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,159 it always happened. You know, I, I always spoke to 541 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:43,320 the spirit of the story and I asked for their presence and 542 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,840 their inspiration and we listened a lot and we gave a 543 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,719 voice to the spirit totally, 100%. 544 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,160 And so somewhere always there would be places in the play 545 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,680 where you would feel something, something happened. 546 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,200 It was an amazement. And then we staffed. 547 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,640 Afterwards we would talk about these moments that happened. 548 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,400 You could just feel if it was so tangible. 549 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,680 Anyway, that is one way to do a successful community is work 550 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,720 with children and seduce the parents in to do something 551 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,840 creative. So I always said I'm not 552 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:31,960 teaching academics, I would like to be a support creatively for 553 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,360 families. You guys can teach all those 554 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,920 things you might be interested in teaching your children. 555 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,200 I'm interested in the arts and creative expression and building 556 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,080 community through that creative expression. 557 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,240 Yeah, a couple things about what you just said. 558 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:51,480 So for folks listening, Sage is talking about somebody named 559 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,240 Megan Chandler who worked with you for a really long time. 560 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,800 Megan is a singer-songwriter, incredible musician and 561 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:06,000 performance artist and educator and now a parent and she would 562 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,360 assist Sage. So after Sage departed from 563 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,240 working with older kids like me and you know, the the tweens and 564 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:16,960 teens that you took on and your unschooling adventures, then you 565 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,640 moved towards he was much younger kids and you had a 566 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,400 kindergarten. It was it a preschool on 567 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,640 kindergarten or what were the ages that you. 568 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,480 Were I'm not that interested in children until they start 569 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,160 dropping their teeth, Yeah, surely. 570 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,960 And it's what happens to them is really quite magical. 571 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:41,720 And so I, you know, and I really had a lot of contact and work 572 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:46,840 with children who were 6 and up, including teens and tweens. 573 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,600 They were also part of my work. So. 574 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,960 Yeah. And so you have this strategy 575 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,400 when you were doing your programs that every year you 576 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,720 would work with a story, a myth or a legend, and you worked with 577 00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:05,760 stories from all over the world. And these were stories that had 578 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,600 some kind of perennial wisdom in them. 579 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,360 There was some deep teaching for the human spirit and maybe for 580 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,480 the life spirit, including humans, but not only. 581 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,600 And you got everybody involved and so everybody had a role. 582 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,080 And for anybody who's interested in, you know, thinking about 583 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,400 sages astrology, I'm just going to say you're a, you're a double 584 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,720 Pisces. You're sun rising Pisces, Libra 585 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:35,640 moon. And then sage also has Saturn 586 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,160 and Mars conjunction Cancer in her 5th house. 587 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,280 So some pretty powerful indicators of everybody actually 588 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,240 has a role. And we're going to involve 589 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:49,560 everyone here in telling a story and really bringing forth 590 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,720 wisdom. And I'm thinking just about the 591 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,400 investment and the equity that people experience when they're 592 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,800 given responsibility to be part of something and to Co create. 593 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,000 And that that is something that I've experienced with you since 594 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:09,360 I've known you, that you don't let anybody stay on the fringes 595 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,200 entirely, right? Like, you know, if if people are 596 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,760 fringy and they need to kind of hang out in the corners, that's 597 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,120 OK with you. But they're still going to have 598 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,600 a job and there will still be moments when they need to step 599 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,800 into leadership. And you mentioned, you know, 600 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,160 having a really direct communication style. 601 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:33,680 And Sage is also Venus, Mercury conjunct in Aries with a Natal 602 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,000 Mercury retrograde trying Pluto in Leo. 603 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,120 People are thinking about that. And my experience with you as a 604 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,640 communicator is that you are very direct and you don't seem 605 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,920 to have the internal rule book that a lot of people have about 606 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,320 what is appropriate or proper to say. 607 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,360 And so if it's on your mind, you're going to say it. 608 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:02,320 And sometimes you ask really intense feeling questions. 609 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,840 I know that there have been times when I've flat out felt 610 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,560 interrogated by you, though, in a, in a fully loving way, you 611 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,560 know, with a lot of presence and curiosity. 612 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:18,240 And what makes it feel possible to engage with you is that you 613 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:22,560 are not going to be afraid of somebody's answer. 614 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,920 And you know, you'll ask really big. 615 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,040 Questions conflict. That's right. 616 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,200 And so if somebody feels pissed off that you asked them that 617 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,840 question or they have a really intense response for themselves, 618 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,680 you know, whatever it is, you embrace it and you're not afraid 619 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,480 of it. You're not trying to control it. 620 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,720 You're not trying to like get people to change their answers. 621 00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:49,600 You just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper into it. 622 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:56,520 And what I have experienced in relationship with you in that 623 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:02,560 way is, you know, needing to confront sometimes my own 624 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,320 feelings of vulnerability and exposure because I'm quite a 625 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,680 private person. I'm somewhat of a slow 626 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,320 processing person. So sometimes you'll ask me 627 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,440 something and I'm like, I'm not ready to talk about that or, you 628 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:21,480 know, not in this space. But you've taught me so much 629 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,000 about communication because you communicate fearlessly or what 630 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,320 feels to be fearless. Maybe you feel some fear 631 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,000 sometimes, but. You're not holding yourself 632 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:37,600 back, editing yourself before you say something and you really 633 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,880 welcome that from other people. And and then it feels, you know, 634 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,200 similar to everybody having a job to do, it also feels like 635 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,160 all parts of us get to belong with you. 636 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,880 And that is such an exceptional quality that all parts get to 637 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,320 belong. You know, when you were like, 638 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,720 OK, you know, bring your angsty negativity into my space. 639 00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:02,120 I'm just going to get curious with you about it. 640 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,560 Suddenly there was a lot of magic there for me that I always 641 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,320 knew was there but had never really had anyone hold it with 642 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,120 me. So I couldn't believe in it 643 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,040 myself, you know, or it felt somehow scandalous and secret. 644 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,080 But then as soon as you were like, Oh yes, there's magic 645 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,480 here, I became much more empowered and I really started 646 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,640 to find the healing gifts and the struggle and the pain that I 647 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,680 was going through and where that was leading me. 648 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,240 You know what I think is interesting, at least right now 649 00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:35,280 in this moment in time, is it was kind of like the universe 650 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,200 was waiting for your mom to let go so that you could start 651 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,000 really unfolding and this all of these amazing people came 652 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,720 forward to meet you here. I this what about that? 653 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,040 And it was just so beautiful watching that unfolding. 654 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,720 And it was amazing watching your your shock. 655 00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:58,080 Is this possible? Could this really be happening 656 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,280 to me that people really want to know who I really am? 657 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,920 You know, let me let me unfold before your eyes. 658 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,360 It was well, you brought tears to my eyes. 659 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,360 Oh. Yeah, I mean, you've brought 660 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,080 tears to my eyes many times. Sage, I want one thing to say to 661 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,600 you when you were talking about going in the mountain and then 662 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,000 having to come down, I asked. Well, I'm very private and I 663 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:28,280 don't like being social. Same get M all the time. 664 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:32,440 You too. But I'm not, I mean, I have my, 665 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,640 you know, I shut the door and I go away and, and I don't go to 666 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,240 parties and I don't do big social gatherings. 667 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:42,520 You know, the biggest thing I ever went to recently was a, a 668 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,720 memorial and you know, my age now, there's a lot of people 669 00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:50,600 dying. And it was amazing because I did 670 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,360 it so infrequently, but it was structured with such high 671 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,640 intention. It was the most exotic, 672 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,600 uplifting moment that I had had in large groups in quite a 673 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,320 while, and I loved every minute of it. 674 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,120 And I thought, hey, maybe, you know, my later lives, I'm going 675 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,720 to be going to lots of memorials. 676 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:09,680 You might wonder if this will happen all of the time. 677 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,040 That would be fun. So that was great to think about 678 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:19,560 that. But I too feel the call to be in 679 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,080 community and this is how I create my community. 680 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:29,400 My social life is very private and very small, and I spend a 681 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,120 lot of time alone. Yeah, I resonate with that too. 682 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:39,280 Out and I feel like my in breath in it all has nourished me and 683 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:44,160 and helped me sort of pull my best forward and then I can step 684 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,800 out and I can give that 100%. Yeah, but it doesn't mean that 685 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,160 those people are necessarily my friends. 686 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,480 Well, you know, I'm curious about this because this brings 687 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,840 me back to this idea of story as teacher, you know, story as the 688 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:04,760 path, which is something that I think is a deeply indigenous way 689 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,560 of being in community and being accountable and understanding 690 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,880 what's happening or being able to at least engage with what's 691 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,640 happening. And I feel that it's something 692 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:21,000 that you have really promoted in the spaces that I've been in 693 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:26,280 with you, is this orientation towards being in a story 694 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,440 together, Being in a story that we're sharing, whether that's in 695 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:35,560 the telling and retelling of it or the making a play or writing 696 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,800 songs about it or just recounting it and thinking about 697 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,000 it. I've been in a lot of spaces 698 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,560 with you where you bring story into the space. 699 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,400 You bring a myth, you bring a legend, you bring a deity or 700 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:53,920 archetype into the space. But the way that you do it asks 701 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:58,840 people to personalize the myth as well as collectivize it. 702 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,200 And so there's. Yeah, there's a way that, you 703 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,240 know, I think for both of us as people who are actually deeply 704 00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:10,200 solitary and private and yet compelled to engage with the 705 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,880 collective and in kind of large social ways, actually. 706 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,200 Because, you know, you say you're not social. 707 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,800 And I can relate with that. Yet you and I are two people who 708 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,960 convene groups, you know, more than most people that I know, 709 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,160 right? You know, we're constantly 710 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,200 gathering groups. And I think in order to do that, 711 00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:31,960 we have to balance with a lot of time alone. 712 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,640 And in order to do any kind of intense group or collective 713 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:45,640 process, individuals need to be on their own journeys and to be 714 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,280 part of a group process and not in your own journey and 715 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,560 following your own quest, you know, through that journey can 716 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,560 be very destabilizing and confusing. 717 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,040 And I think that's part of where people lose themselves in 718 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,680 groups, right? And in in relationship. 719 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,040 So, you know, since I've known you, you've been working very 720 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,200 deeply with archetypal mythic patterns, whether that's the 721 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,400 hero's journey, you know, of some kind, right? 722 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,440 Or the protagonist going on some kind of quest. 723 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,760 There's always the leaving of what's familiar. 724 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,440 There's always the moving out into the unknown. 725 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,360 There's always the period of challenge and confusion and 726 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,080 going into the darkness in some way. 727 00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:31,320 There's always the helping guides that are encountered. 728 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,720 There's always the tricksters. There's always the inner 729 00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:39,000 trickster or the addiction patterns or the, you know, parts 730 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,160 of the self that have to be transformed in some way. 731 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,840 And then there's always this lesson, you know, that only is 732 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,280 learned by going through the process and being on the 733 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,360 journey. And I feel that you you have 734 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,400 this way of bringing groups of people into a story together, 735 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:04,400 while you're also asking each person in that group to consider 736 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,280 the story for themselves. Absolutely. 737 00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:11,880 So I I'd like to just speak to a couple of stories right now. 738 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:19,800 And the first one is probably the most longest standing heroic 739 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,400 character in my mythos, my internal mythos, who is a mouse. 740 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,600 And she is the most courageous character. 741 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,880 And she hears a call, she's inspired by a vision of the 742 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,760 sacred mountains and she decides she's leaving the gang, She's 743 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,560 going out on her own. Nobody believes in her, trusts 744 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,920 what her vision is and thinks she's crazy. 745 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,280 And her journey leads her to the sacred mountains. 746 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:55,320 But going to cry right now. She has lots of teachers along 747 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,200 the way, but to do that journey, she has to give up her eyes. 748 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,160 So at the very end of the story, she's blind. 749 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,040 She gives her other, her last eye to this being that she 750 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,520 believes, of course, these are all animals, Buffalo and wolf 751 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:16,160 and that sort of thing, who are far greater than her and they 752 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,560 deserve to be actualized. And if they need the eye of a 753 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,800 mouse, it's theirs. I surrender to it. 754 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,200 So she surrenders. The last surrenders to the wolf. 755 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,640 She gives him his eyes because he has no idea what his purpose 756 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,440 is in life. He's so disoriented and crazy. 757 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:38,160 Her eye flies out into the wolf and he's made whole. 758 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,960 And he says, little sister, thank you for your giveaway. 759 00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:44,320 And I know your sacrifice. But guess what? 760 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,760 I'm the guide to the sacred mountains and I'm going to take 761 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:52,200 you the rest of the way. And right now there's been a 762 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:57,960 mouse on my shrine for many months and I acknowledge my 763 00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,480 blind spot that I'm just blind and I don't know. 764 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,800 I don't know what how to navigate where I am in my life 765 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,760 right now. And I take comfort in the wisdom 766 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,240 of just surrendering at all. She she gave up everything 767 00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:20,440 surrendering it all and just letting go and for sure not 768 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:25,880 having an idea how how she's going to manifest her destiny 769 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,920 which is to go to the sacred mountains. 770 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,040 And the ending of the story is spectacular and she turns into 771 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,440 an eagle in the end and has the most far reaching vision and 772 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,120 capacities that she is gifted with because of her wonder, 773 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:48,160 compassion and curiosity. And that that story's been in my 774 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,560 life since 1987. That's when I found that story. 775 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,360 You know, in so many stories, you think you're going finding 776 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,480 takes a long time to find a true, true story, including the 777 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,680 jumpy mouse story. You know that I'd seen it around 778 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,480 and it was really superficial and silly. 779 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,240 But I finally found the true, true story, and it's amazing. 780 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,240 So she's been part of that hero's journey thing. 781 00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,720 But now, you know, they're saying it's all about community. 782 00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:19,040 You don't like that word, but it is, you know, people. 783 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,640 Well, first of all, we shall be known by the company we keep at 784 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:34,360 this point. And so my bookkeeper buys these 785 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,120 tickets to go here, Michael Mead, who was the big guy in the 786 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,640 60s. And I go, I want to go do that, 787 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,680 you know, I never want to go do anything social public or 788 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,520 whatever. And but she was so thrilled to 789 00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:49,040 be giving this gift to me and Christopher. 790 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,160 So I get myself ready for the whole thing and bring a presents 791 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:57,400 where I'm saying, all right, I have a question, you know, what 792 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,960 is the story for our time? And if I can, I'm going to ask 793 00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:08,960 this man that question. And I never talk in groups like 794 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,440 that. You know, this guy's giving a 795 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,920 download. It's pretty amazing, sort of. 796 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,240 But I'm like, I don't know. And then he says something that 797 00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:20,040 just catches me about groups of people, and I go. 798 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:24,800 So I raised my hand and he calls on me right away and I say, 799 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,560 what? What is the story for our Times 800 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:28,760 Now? What's the myth? 801 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,680 What's the legend? What's the folk tale? 802 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,880 Whatever. He goes, I have just the story 803 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,800 for you. And so he just right there, he 804 00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,040 stops and he tells it. And it was very brief and very 805 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,000 short. And given what I know about 806 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,920 story and stuff, I was filling in the blanks like crazy. 807 00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:46,320 And he said, so there was this group of people. 808 00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,880 And somehow or another, he, these are my words. 809 00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:57,000 Now spirit comes to these people out of need and says the world 810 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:02,840 has lost its center. And you, you cluster of people 811 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,800 that I'm talking to right now, you have got to go out into the 812 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,680 world, into the forest, into the oceans, into the depths. 813 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,960 And you have to find your golden thread and you have to come back 814 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,600 and you have to weave those threads together to bring the 815 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:25,680 earth back to its center. And I immediately knew that this 816 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,240 was a profound download, you know, that I was getting, you 817 00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:33,520 know, people coming together. And there's this amazing book 818 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:38,280 that has become almost Bible like for me, you know, most 819 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,240 recently, but it's called The Return of the Bird Tribe by Ken 820 00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:44,560 Carey. And at the end of this book, 821 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:49,160 this being is doing a download and he's saying it's time for 822 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:53,160 you to go back to reincarnate, to go back in and do this work. 823 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,160 And you know, one that I personally, I believe that many 824 00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:01,680 of my incarnations were into very brutal fear dynasties, just 825 00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,720 really, really bad. And I've had a past life dream 826 00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:08,960 that I've never forgotten that really enforces that as well. 827 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:15,080 So and this spiritual being is saying it's you have to go back 828 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,520 and more than likely you'll Incarnate into another fear 829 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,080 dynasty that they're just, it's the dominator, you know, and 830 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,920 you're going to take with you a gift, all of you that are going 831 00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:27,480 back. And that's us. 832 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,760 He's talking about the 60s now and he says we're going to give 833 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,960 you a gift to take with you. And when you need it, it's going 834 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,440 to happen. And the gift was melodies. 835 00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:43,600 There will be songs that will catch you and it'll awaken. 836 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,840 It'll quicken something in you and you'll remember this moment 837 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,520 and you'll remember what you're supposed to be doing and you 838 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,920 will step forward. So I'm thinking about melodies 839 00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,400 and stuff. He's talking about the 60s. 840 00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,280 I mean, just think about all of the songs of the 60s that just 841 00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,320 tweaked you just so to the wake up. 842 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,560 And I was thinking of the most current song at that point when 843 00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,480 I read that part of the book, which so many people in the 844 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,680 circles that I move in and stuff always want to sing. 845 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,240 And it's that we shall be known by the company we keep. 846 00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:20,160 That song has caught the imagination of so many, many 847 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,920 people that it comes up. People just start singing it. 848 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,720 Everybody knows that song that I, you know, run into. 849 00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:30,360 Not that I have, like, a vast social network, but a lot of 850 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,240 people know that song. So then I started compiling a a 851 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,440 little list of all of the Wake Up songs that I feel I've 852 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:42,040 encountered, you know, and feel moved by or inspired by. 853 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,200 And there are a lot of really amazing performers these days 854 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,760 who are singing Wake Up songs that are really moving, really 855 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,000 powerful. Yeah. 856 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,320 Yeah, there's something happening right now that hasn't 857 00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,440 happened since the 60s is Chiron and Aries. 858 00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:03,920 It's an interesting moment for that kind of return as well. 859 00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:06,880 You can find that astrologically what I'm saying to you right now 860 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:12,480 about the melodies, well. I can think about a generational 861 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:18,120 connection between the late 60s and now as a time when civil 862 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,240 rights, human rights are really taking center stage and focus, 863 00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:28,880 as is the wounding pattern of toxic masculinity and white 864 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,560 supremacy and the weaponization of the ego that I think, you 865 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:39,120 know, American culture has done, you know, really complete job of 866 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,760 manipulating. You know, this kind of sense of 867 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,120 toxic individualization where you know that the whole idea of 868 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,560 a hero, you know, the whole idea of one person somehow being able 869 00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,280 to prevail, pick themselves up by the bootstraps, be self-made. 870 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,760 You know, whatever is such a destructive myth and so far from 871 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:04,160 the actual truth of what happens to uplift any single person. 872 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,840 You know how any individual might achieve their own 873 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:12,400 greatness or something can never be separated from the assistance 874 00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,480 and the help and relationships that are part of their journey. 875 00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,000 And so that I think there's something about this time that 876 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:26,320 is the return or kind of thematic has a thematic 877 00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:30,640 resonance with that time. Definitely. 878 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:37,520 And there's also, yeah, there are larger generational transits 879 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,880 in terms of the outer planets and how they are in cyclical 880 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,600 relationship with each other that definitely, you know, it 881 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:52,000 feels like a a return to a lot of those themes and those times. 882 00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:55,600 But there is something in particular that you said that I 883 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,080 want to come back to. And maybe this will be where we 884 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:05,240 close our conversation today. But you talked about this moment 885 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,280 in your life and the current quality of time being a time 886 00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:15,080 when you, you know, feel that you don't have sight and that 887 00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,400 you can't see where to go and what's next. 888 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,960 And then the story of jumping Mouse when she gives away her 889 00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,120 eyes and she doesn't know how she's going to get to the 890 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,880 mountain. Like there's something that's 891 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,720 calling you and you don't know how to get there. 892 00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:33,440 And you've really needed to just surrender to the process. 893 00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:39,960 And so Sage is a late degree Pisces son. 894 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,640 You have your son at 27° of Pisces. 895 00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:48,280 You're born in the last few days of Pisces season, and currently 896 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:52,200 the outer planets Neptune and Saturn are both right around 897 00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:56,920 that place in Pisces. Neptune has been in Pisces since 898 00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:01,520 2011, and Neptune is considered to be the modern ruler, 899 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,560 contemporary planetary affiliate of Pisces. 900 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:10,640 And so they both bring energies of dream and imagination and 901 00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:15,680 magic fantasy, which are some of the more pleasurable parts of 902 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:20,640 Piscean energy and archetype. But they can also be influences 903 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:25,080 that are deeply confusing, that are highly addictive, that are 904 00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:30,000 full of delusions and delusions and confusion and that really 905 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,640 requires surrender. So these are energies and and 906 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:41,080 kind of archetypal patterns that are about what is whole in an 907 00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,640 enormous sense. So that like the wholeness of 908 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,160 the universe right there, the wholeness of the Earth is bigger 909 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:53,240 than we can comprehend. And if we even try to comprehend 910 00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:57,000 it, we'll slip into madness. You know, it's because it's so 911 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,760 big and it's so intense and inside of the everything is 912 00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:06,480 stuff that's terrifying and so full of trauma and grief and 913 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:11,040 completely absurd, illogical kinds of things that are still 914 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,400 real, You know, what happened and have happened. 915 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,680 And so I think that when we have to encounter these kinds of 916 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:22,440 energies in the world and in ourselves, we are often brought 917 00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,720 to our knees, you know, symbolically and really forced 918 00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:31,800 into circumstances that feel devastating to our egos, where 919 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,320 we lose our sense of self, where we do feel really confused, 920 00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,880 where things are very foggy, where we don't have a feeling of 921 00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,680 being able to see or sense. And then there is this kind of 922 00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:50,840 metaphorical blindness and a real reaching to the ineffable, 923 00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,680 to the numinous, you know, to the spiritual and some kind of 924 00:59:54,680 --> 01:00:02,760 plea or petition for help. And Saturn as an energy is known 925 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,240 for challenge and obstruction and restriction and being a 926 01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,640 harsh authority figure, punitive teacher. 927 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:15,200 And Saturn this week actually is stationing direct on your son. 928 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:19,360 So it's right at 27°. Neptune has been close by for a 929 01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:20,240 while. And. 930 01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,440 Saturn and Neptune are both getting ready to leave Pisces. 931 01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,800 They'll be out by early next year. 932 01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:28,480 Saturn will be back for 30 years. 933 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,400 You'll you'll be ancestor by then in the spirit realms. 934 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,320 Maybe I will be too, maybe everyone listening, who knows. 935 01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,400 But Neptune definitely won't come back to Pisces until we're 936 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,320 all along gone because it has 165 year orbit around the sun. 937 01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,320 So it's a once in a lifetime opportunity and once in a 938 01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,200 generation or not even every generation opportunity to 939 01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,760 experience Neptune and Pisces. But because you have your son 940 01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,640 here, which is such a personal point and in medical astrology, 941 01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:59,040 it rules your heart and your spine, these transits are very 942 01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,080 personal for you. You know you are getting an 943 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:07,480 upfront close up experience of what do Neptune and Saturn 944 01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,960 together in the late degrees of Pisces demand. 945 01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:15,320 And this is personalized and unique for you and your context 946 01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,280 and conditions in your life with the gifts and the challenges 947 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:22,000 that you have. But you know, this brings me to 948 01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:27,120 two questions for you. So one question has to do with 949 01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:29,440 the times that we're in right now. 950 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,000 So you and your personal life are experiencing a number of 951 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,720 things that I won't go into. You can if you want, but these 952 01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,520 conditions in your life, the circumstances of your life 953 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:46,160 totally from outside of your control, smash down into your 954 01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:55,280 reality and completely sever, you know, a lot of the tether 955 01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:02,320 that your reality had to the the functional aspects of of like 956 01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,120 what was creating it, right? And so all of a sudden you're 957 01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:09,000 thrown into this maelstrom, this chaotic circumstance where you 958 01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,320 are having a lot taken away from you. 959 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:17,800 You are challenged by punitive, rigid, authoritarian structures 960 01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,560 of the state and you have to surrender. 961 01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:28,880 And you are being thrown into some kind of process that is 962 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,400 uncertain. You can't see how it's going to 963 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,400 turn out. And it is a complete trust dive 964 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:36,800 for you and it that's the only way it can be. 965 01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:37,880 You don't actually have a choice. 966 01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,520 So you are experiencing this right now, and you're a person 967 01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:47,680 who I know can glean an archetypal lesson through your 968 01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,840 own personal experience. What are you learning in your 969 01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:58,360 life right now about surrender in times of chaos, confusion, 970 01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,760 and deep fear? Is there any way in the 971 01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,760 circumstance that you can see like something is happening that 972 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,960 is doing something for you that is evolving your soul further? 973 01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,720 And I'm going to ask you a second part of that question 974 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,000 because you mentioned music and melodies. 975 01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,280 And so the second part of the question just has to do with 976 01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:25,920 Pisces as a very creative energy and it and a sign in the Zodiac 977 01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:30,240 that is known for making music and film and art and using the 978 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:36,000 arts really to help transform and transcend and lift 979 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,160 consciousness or move consciousness into new 980 01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,000 directions. So the second part of my 981 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:44,560 question is how you know, what is this experience doing for you 982 01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,600 as an artist? Because we haven't even talked 983 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,400 about that part of your life. But you are an artist and you 984 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,280 are a creative person, and you're someone who I know 985 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:59,320 reaches to the creative as well. So maybe those are, you know, 2 986 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,200 separate questions, or they're part of the same question, or 987 01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,440 you want to just ditch them both and go on your own tangent. 988 01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:08,760 Thank you for the pleasure of going my own way. 989 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:14,600 I would say that the biggest teacher for me right now, and 990 01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,800 you experienced it with me just crying all of a sudden in this 991 01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:26,440 podcast is my feelings publicly, You know, maybe I'd get 992 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,160 irritated or something, but I would never be vulnerable. 993 01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:34,440 I would never cry. And I I used to egoically go, I 994 01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:35,960 don't cry. I never cry. 995 01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:42,720 I have cried every day in my meditation day after day since 996 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:47,760 last February, every single day, right to this moment in time. 997 01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,160 I have never, I have cried rivers. 998 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:57,840 I have felt so much grief and still live with the wonderment 999 01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:02,320 of will this ever end And the creative inspiration out of it 1000 01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:07,160 is that the work that I want to go forward and has to do with 1001 01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,080 creating a space for having conversations with people. 1002 01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,520 And when at one point in a, you know, a journal thing, I just 1003 01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,040 wrote down all the things I would love to talk with people 1004 01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:23,400 about and just lay it out there and just say, if you want to 1005 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,400 sign up with one person to come and talk to me about this or 20 1006 01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:30,560 of you want to talk about just we'll make a plan and we'll make 1007 01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:35,200 a date and that's what we'll do. And I just want to sit in 1008 01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,120 conversation. I want to sit in conversation 1009 01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:39,520 like I've been sitting with you. I want to be vulnerable. 1010 01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,240 I don't want to be the know it all. 1011 01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,520 I just want to be in conversation. 1012 01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,440 So I think I just answered both of them really. 1013 01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:52,160 There is just it's very serious what the government is doing 1014 01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:56,360 around people coming together and gathering it. 1015 01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,920 It has been astonishing with Ayana and I talking to different 1016 01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:02,240 government people. Well, can we do this? 1017 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:03,600 No, you can't gather and do that. 1018 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,000 You cannot gather here in Boulder and have 5 friends come 1019 01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,960 over and teach them how to make calendula SAP in your own home. 1020 01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,800 That's against the city law. What I've learned is that the 1021 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:19,560 buzzword is safety and the city, that's what they say. 1022 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,520 This is for your safety. It's for the children's safety. 1023 01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,480 Although in the 30 years I've been doing this program, 1024 01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,560 nobody's ever even gone to the hospital or had anything happen 1025 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:35,560 to them. And the other word is, you know, 1026 01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,480 it's best if you just run your program online. 1027 01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,080 This is, this is an insidious thing, this online thing. 1028 01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:46,520 And that's what they want to have happen. 1029 01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:50,000 Go into your homes, be online, do all your work online. 1030 01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,400 Don't come together with this woman that's doing the writing 1031 01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:55,200 class. She finally had a group of 1032 01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,240 people for me to watch because she wanted me to evaluate her 1033 01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,760 online programs. And I go, I, I don't even know 1034 01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,480 how to do that. And I went into one online 1035 01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,600 program of another woman who had wanted me to speak. 1036 01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:10,320 And it was so strange to me. And I told her, I can't do this. 1037 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,360 I cannot do this online thing doesn't work for me. 1038 01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,040 I just need to have bodies in front of me and then I know what 1039 01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:18,960 to do. I want to fill in your story a 1040 01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:22,160 little bit just so our listeners know a couple more of the 1041 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,640 details. So Sage, you and Ayana, along 1042 01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,240 with other teachers that you've worked with, have run a nature 1043 01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,800 based homeschool support program for a long time. 1044 01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,520 We honor the spirit that moves in all things, particularly 1045 01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:37,960 nature. We just hang out in nature a 1046 01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,440 whole bunch, you know, And if we are songs or if we do creative 1047 01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,760 things, it's outside. And we're often reciting poetry 1048 01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:49,600 about the wonder of nature and the amazement of the wheel of 1049 01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:52,840 the year and. And your whole curriculum is 1050 01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:58,400 based on seasonal change. It's based on natural cycles of 1051 01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:03,000 growth and myth and story. And you do a lot of experiential 1052 01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,640 hands on learning with young kids. 1053 01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:11,800 And what I know from my personal experience being a not so young 1054 01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:16,200 kid in your program, but also being around the program for a 1055 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:24,520 long time is that this is a very powerful and extremely positive 1056 01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:29,720 education for people, the kids and their parents included, that 1057 01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,279 the young people love the program. 1058 01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:39,560 They excel and thrive and you and Ayana have an orientation 1059 01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:43,439 towards radical inclusion that really works. 1060 01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,120 And so the kids that come in with all their little 1061 01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:49,600 personality perks in the ways that they are, are accepted as 1062 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,960 they are. Everybody has a role. 1063 01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:56,800 Everybody is accepted, everybody is supported to support 1064 01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:00,760 everybody else. My understanding is that in 1065 01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,160 Colorado, and maybe specifically in Boulder County, there is a 1066 01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,840 real push to shut down the nature based education programs. 1067 01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,240 A whole bunch. Of and that part of what is 1068 01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:17,200 coming up in the name of safety is really having the impact of 1069 01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,960 separating children from the environment. 1070 01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,880 Totally. We've had a health department 1071 01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:27,120 kind of person come in and they go, if you have children here 1072 01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,880 again, they cannot eat any of these plants and they cannot 1073 01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,760 harvest the garden food out of your gardens and eat it. 1074 01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:36,200 Right. And you've had organic gardens 1075 01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,359 for decades and you've been feeding people for decades, and 1076 01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:41,359 nobody's gotten sick from eating there. 1077 01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:45,640 They've probably gotten a lot healthier and built a personal 1078 01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,240 relationship to the food and the land. 1079 01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:53,319 I mean, it's just like it's, it feels like I'm in a time warp or 1080 01:09:53,319 --> 01:09:57,160 something and I've been dropped in such strange land, you know? 1081 01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:59,160 I mean, I'm just endlessly talking to people. 1082 01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,640 I cannot believe the words that are coming out of their mouth. 1083 01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,200 Oh, you use this? This is the health people. 1084 01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,480 Well, you'll have to sterilize this sand once a week that they 1085 01:10:08,480 --> 01:10:11,600 play in. The sand, this you're going to 1086 01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,920 have to sterilize the sand and the sticks, right? 1087 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:16,560 The sticks that the kids play with. 1088 01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:19,960 Yeah. And if you if they cut 1089 01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:24,800 themselves, the first thing you do is put on plastic gloves to 1090 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:29,640 protect yourself from them. And I believe that the children 1091 01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,760 that are growing up with this kind of mentality, which is in a 1092 01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:37,280 lot in the public schools, it happens a lot, are taught that 1093 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:40,880 other people are dangerous and you need to cover yourself up 1094 01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,440 with plastic to protect yourself from them. 1095 01:10:45,440 --> 01:10:47,680 Yeah. You don't want to get too close 1096 01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:49,200 because they might make you sick. 1097 01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,400 You need to have barriers between you and them. 1098 01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,160 People are not. You can't trust other people. 1099 01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,080 Yeah. All right, so listening to you, 1100 01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:03,520 I'm going to glean through my own biased perspective, maybe a 1101 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:08,160 couple of collective lessons that you as a solar person, you 1102 01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,600 know through your heart and your spine and in your energy and 1103 01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:17,080 personality, you've really been meeting, meeting first hand and 1104 01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:21,640 needing to meet. So you said that you've been 1105 01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:28,480 crying every day. And I feel that this is a moment 1106 01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:35,160 in time when it is so important for so many people to feel the 1107 01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:40,040 feelings that have not had space to be felt maybe for hundreds of 1108 01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:41,680 years, maybe for thousands of years. 1109 01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:46,240 That there is a build up and an accumulation of unfelt feelings. 1110 01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:50,600 And that build up and accumulation is being added to 1111 01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:57,360 every single day by the kinds of attitudes and policies that are 1112 01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,320 shutting down your program and saying you need to sanitize the 1113 01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:03,120 sand. That these are the attitudes and 1114 01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,040 policies that pervade the world right now. 1115 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:09,640 That there is so much institutional structure built on 1116 01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:14,080 fear and separating people from each other in the environment. 1117 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,640 And so the other lesson that I'm taking from you right now, just 1118 01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:24,200 as a collective lesson, is the need to create the kinds of 1119 01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:30,960 structures that can hold small communities and groups of people 1120 01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:37,320 in more protected private ways in order to do the kinds of 1121 01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,640 gathering and convening that are actually needed right now and 1122 01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:44,080 that are not being supported by the state. 1123 01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:47,920 And SAGE just held up a sign. You can hold it up again, I can 1124 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:49,960 read it. She just held up a sign. 1125 01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:53,720 They just purchased because in part of what they need to do 1126 01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:56,520 because of what's happening with the state is they're changing 1127 01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:00,080 their their license from a homeschooling program to a 1128 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,440 private ministry. So the sign says no trespassing. 1129 01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:06,200 This is a private ministry. No person or government official 1130 01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:10,560 may enter without membership. Trespassers will be prosecuted. 1131 01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,520 If you have a complaint, put it in writing, sign your name and 1132 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:19,120 mail it to this address. I feel like the thing that 1133 01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,520 you're doing right now is something that I feel like I'm 1134 01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:25,280 doing in my own way as well, which is clarifying boundaries 1135 01:13:25,480 --> 01:13:27,800 in order to protect. The. 1136 01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:34,560 Humanness of the kinds of gatherings that I want to have 1137 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:36,880 and that I want to be a part of and that I want to invite people 1138 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:41,120 into. And I'm in a process with myself 1139 01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:46,480 right now, you know, around being a person who believes 1140 01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:52,320 deeply in inclusion and understanding that actually I 1141 01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:58,600 need, I need to have strong boundaries and containers and 1142 01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:04,120 that not everyone is welcome because not everyone has the 1143 01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:06,920 intention or the capacity to include. 1144 01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:13,640 And so those that are here to penalize, to exclude, to 1145 01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:19,160 villainize, to scapegoat, to, you know, punish, to deport, to 1146 01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,640 coerce, whatever, that energy can't be in here. 1147 01:14:25,480 --> 01:14:28,920 And it's a really interesting kind of tension to feel. 1148 01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:31,920 It is to me. It's offensive to think I'm 1149 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,040 putting this sign on my gate, Christopher goes sage. 1150 01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:36,880 That means you're going to see that from the street. 1151 01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,320 And I go, I know it's really disgusting, isn't it? 1152 01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,000 But I mean, that's what we have to do. 1153 01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:44,800 Yeah, it's a it's an interesting moment. 1154 01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,480 It's just so crazy all the things that we're learning and 1155 01:14:47,480 --> 01:14:51,440 talking about right now. It's so, so crazy to maybe have 1156 01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:55,800 the chance to to do something new. 1157 01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,160 It's definitely not going to ever look like it did before. 1158 01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:01,200 I mean, we, there's a huge classroom space. 1159 01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,280 It's very beautiful. And I don't think it's going to 1160 01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:06,080 survive. Then we're going to have to tear 1161 01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:08,720 it down. So anything that, you know, 1162 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,480 supports people gathering in an indoor space, for example, 1163 01:15:12,480 --> 01:15:17,240 they're just, and there's so many people who are like small 1164 01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:20,560 things like we've been doing who are so afraid and they're 1165 01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:22,640 watching us. They're talking to Ayanna all 1166 01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,880 the time about, well, what's happening now? 1167 01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,680 You know, we just, we're really worried about this, what's going 1168 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,840 to happen to us, and it's across our whole nation. 1169 01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:32,560 That's right. Well, and this is what I'm 1170 01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,800 saying, you know that you as an individual right now where your 1171 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:41,960 son is, you are a unique and distinct channel for this 1172 01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:45,920 collective moment because of these outer planet energies that 1173 01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:50,440 are generational influences sitting on your son, you know, 1174 01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:53,280 just being there. So you become a person that is 1175 01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:56,880 having a very personalized first hand experience. 1176 01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:00,360 And so while everybody in the country is living through this 1177 01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:04,960 particular moment, not everybody is experiencing it in the same 1178 01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:08,720 way. And I think that when you know, 1179 01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:11,920 when people have their personal placements contacted by these 1180 01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:15,920 outer planet energies, they become the Canaries in the coal 1181 01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,800 mine, so to speak, or they become the leaders for a 1182 01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,520 collective learning. And that's why I'm asking you, 1183 01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:26,200 what are you learning? What are you realizing in your 1184 01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:31,360 own experience because you are in the direct path of this 1185 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,960 energy and you have something then to share with the 1186 01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:39,160 collective. And so being on the kind of 1187 01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:43,800 front lines of this particular battle around nature based 1188 01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:49,280 education and gathering, right, like private gatherings on 1189 01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:54,760 private property and the state coming down and really trying to 1190 01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:59,040 control and dictate how you gather and reduce the numbers 1191 01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,960 that you can gather with and. Or eradicate them. 1192 01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,160 You can't. No, you can't. 1193 01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:07,640 Eradicate, interfere and to really, you know, to come at you 1194 01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:10,640 with this language of institutional concern like 1195 01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:15,040 safety when so many of the rules around the institutional 1196 01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:19,120 concerns are not actually grounded in reality of what 1197 01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:21,240 keeps people safe. Because we know that what keeps 1198 01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,720 people safe in much more sustainable big picture, long 1199 01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:28,760 term ways is community and knowing each other and trusting 1200 01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:33,440 each other and knowing how to grow their own food right and 1201 01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:37,840 take care of lands like this would make us so much safer than 1202 01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:44,000 knowing how to sanitize sand that kids are playing in or you 1203 01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,200 know, keeping kids at home online away from each other. 1204 01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,600 That doesn't create any kind of safety in a long term way. 1205 01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,560 And so it does feel like there is a kind of collective battle 1206 01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:59,240 right now of what I'm going to just say is, you know, organic 1207 01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:04,840 human experience and need against the cold mechanized 1208 01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:09,360 bureaucracy of the state and really like the technocratic 1209 01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:11,480 state. You know, that we want everybody 1210 01:18:11,480 --> 01:18:14,080 online. We want to be able to enforce 1211 01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:17,720 our curriculum, you know, in a kind of mass distribution 1212 01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:21,040 through these different programs that all the, you know, families 1213 01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:22,800 need to be enrolled in if they're not going to go to 1214 01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,440 public school or they're wiping out the education department 1215 01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:29,480 completely, but at the same time, not supporting people to 1216 01:18:29,480 --> 01:18:31,840 really take on education for themselves. 1217 01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:35,600 So I'm hearing that on a collective level right now. 1218 01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:39,000 We need to cry. We need to feel our feelings. 1219 01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:44,840 We need to find ways to gather and and we need to find ways to 1220 01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:50,640 gather not only our people and together, but to gather in ways 1221 01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:55,120 that keep us remembering and sharing the actual survival 1222 01:18:55,120 --> 01:19:01,120 skills and methods of communal safety that are instinctual and 1223 01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:04,080 natural and very much carried down and passed through human 1224 01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:06,440 experience. There was a third lesson. 1225 01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:09,720 I now I'm now I've lost it. Do you remember what it is? 1226 01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:13,720 Maybe the third lesson is to find the melody to leave these 1227 01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:17,880 these golden strands together. Do you have a melody that's come 1228 01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:21,320 to you recently or anything? You know, I actually don't know 1229 01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:24,320 the song that you said that everybody knows, and I'm 1230 01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:27,600 wondering if you know it. We shall be known by the company 1231 01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:32,520 we keep. We shall be known by the company 1232 01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:38,520 we keep, by the ones who took around to tend these fires. 1233 01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:44,480 We shall be known by the ones who sow and reap the seeds of 1234 01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:48,560 change alive from deep within the earth. 1235 01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:54,880 It is time now. It is time now that we thrive. 1236 01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:59,400 It is time to lead ourselves into the world. 1237 01:19:59,440 --> 01:20:07,360 And it is time now. And what a time to be alive. 1238 01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:12,680 From this great turning we shall learn to lead in love. 1239 01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:18,520 From this great turning, we shall learn to lead in love. 1240 01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:22,200 It's a group called Mum. Use those. 1241 01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:24,480 Two things.