You know, to come at you with this language of institutional
concern like safety, when so many of the rules around the
institutional concerns are not actually grounded in reality of
what keeps people safe. Because we know that what keeps
people safe in much more sustainable big picture long
term ways is community and knowing each other and trusting
each other and knowing how to grow their own food right and
take care of lands like this would make us so much safer than
knowing how to sanitize sand that kids are playing in or, you
know, keeping kids at home online away from each other.
That doesn't create any kind of safety in a long term way.
And so it does feel like there is a kind of collective battle
right now of what I'm going to just say is, you know, organic
human experience and need against the cold, mechanized
bureaucracy of the state and really like the technocratic
state. You know, that we want everybody
online. We want to be able to enforce
our curriculum, you know, in a kind of mass distribution
through these different programs that all the, you know, families
need to be enrolled in if they're not going to go to
public school or they're wiping out the education department
completely, but at the same time not supporting people to really
take on education for themselves.
Hello and welcome to Embodied Astrology, where we explore
astrology as a language of light, life, and experience and
experiment with it in ways that can be applied in any direction
to help us engage with more intention, alignment, awareness,
and ease. My name is Renee Sills, I'm a
second generation astrologer and somatic educator, an artist, a
community organizer, and the host of Embodied Astrology,
which is much more than just a podcast.
Along with our monthly free horoscopes for all signs and
special episodes such as this one, we offer weekly and monthly
virtual classes and workshops, peer LED learning spaces,
practitioner programs, and more. It's Sagittarius season in 2025
and the day I'm releasing this podcast is the day of the Gemini
Full Moon. The axis and opposition between
Sagittarius and Gemini is an important one for students and
teachers, learners and seekers. This axis is an especially
important one in my chart as a person with the North Node,
Chiron and Vista, and Gemini and Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and the
South Node and Sagittarius. I'm a lifelong learner,
enthusiastic seeker, dedicated student, and extremely honored
and grateful to get to be a teacher in this lifetime.
As anyone who has ever taught anything knows, teaching
something to others is really the way to learn it for
yourself. And in the transmission of
information, knowledge, and practice, the wisdom of what
we're working with gets to be embodied.
That said, it takes a special kind of courage and strength to
be the kind of teacher who remains an active and open
student. So often we're taught that not
knowing is something to be ashamed of or feel that we
shouldn't question what we think we know or others think they
know. But in my experience, the best
teachers are the first to admit the limits of their knowledge
and will willingly humble themselves to learn and practice
and practice and learn some more.
My guest this season is a teacher and seeker like this.
Sage Hamilton will turn 80 years old in 2026 and has been
teaching for over half her life, guiding growth and exploration
with people ranging in age from 5 to 65.
Sage is a double Pisces Sun and rising with a Libra Moon.
She was born in California to Italian immigrant parents and
raised in a strict Catholic household and education.
Always an avid learner and deeply spiritual person, as a
young child she thought she would become a nun, but the nuns
who were her teachers told her she wasn't smart enough and to
train to be a secretary instead. After a friend encouraged her to
take night classes and go to college, she ended up graduating
at the top of her class with a master's in education and became
a school teacher. Her first teaching job LED her
to leave Los Angeles where she had lived her whole life and
moved to Red River, Idaho where she fell madly in love and
became deeply connected with nature and the wild outdoors,
catalyzing a lifetime of her own rewilding and remembering her
connections with plants, animals, elements and earth.
After earning a Master's in Education, experiencing 2 failed
marriages and becoming a parent, Sage left Idaho with her young
daughter and no plan. They ended up at Esslin
Institute in Big Sur, CA where she encountered Anthroposophy
and the work of Rudolf Steiner, which led her to complete a
Waldorf teacher training where she met her soulmate and life
partner, Christopher. Sage and her family moved again
after she and Christopher both landed jobs at the Shining
Mountain Waldorf School in Boulder, Co, where she guided a
class for eight years through the complete Waldorf curriculum.
As alternative as it was, Waldorf was still too formulaic
for Sage's wild spirit, so she left in the late 1990s to pursue
creating her own program based on experiential education and
unschooling, and she's been at it ever since.
Along the way, over the last 30 plus years, Sage apprenticed for
many years with Melodoma and Sabanfo Somay in the work of
village tending and community ritual.
She trained intensively with Sophia Diaz and earned her
certification in Kripalu Yoga, and she has been a committed
spiritual practitioner and devotee of the perennial wisdoms
of love and conscious awakening. In 2005, Sage started a Living
Learning program to support homeschoolers, unschoolers, and
others who choose to break away from traditional education.
She has worked with dozens of families and multiple
generations of families, including children and parents
and grandparents, reawakening natural intelligence and
curiosity through nature based learning and cultivating depth
and intimacy of relationship with the Earth and its cycles
and seasons. Sage's unique facilitation style
is anchored in engagement with myth, storytelling, creative
arts and theater and includes anyone and everyone who is
present and wishes to join. Since it began, her program
morphs and shifts with seasonal changes and the interests and
needs of those who attend. I am infinitely blessed and
forever grateful to be 1 of Sage's first unschooling
students. And as you'll hear us talk about
in this season's episode, I credit her literally with saving
my life through her curiosity and willing engagement with the
parts of me that were completely shut down by the public school
system. Though it's been many years now
since I was one of Sage's active students, she has remained a
mentor and possibility model for me throughout my life and is
someone I regularly seek inspiration, wisdom, and company
from. One of the things I find most
inspiring about Sage is her willingness and enthusiasm to
change. She is constantly following her
own attention in ways that have kept her vital engaged and
thriving into her eldership. Sage's daughter, Ayana has now
moved into leadership in their unschooling program over the
last year. Due to circumstances that are
complicated and heartbreaking, and that have a lot to do with
government overreach and intentional shutdown of nature
based learning programs, Sage and Ayana have had to shift
course as they adjust and evolve into their next iteration, They
are making some of their curriculum available online.
If you're interested in working with kids and families through
theater and music, you can now find several plays written by
Sage and her community, along with guidance for learning
through storytelling and theater making on their website,
sageprograms.com. I've dropped that link in the
show notes where you can also find more information about
embodied astrology and our approach to experiential
learning, which has been deeply influenced by Sage.
I'm excited to share this episode with you.
Thanks so much for being here. OK, Sage, thanks so much for
having this call with me and welcome to the Embodied
Astrology Podcast. It's a thrill to have you on as
a guest and you are the most close personal relationship
guest I have ever had on this show and the person who I've
known the longest. So as a guest on Embodied
Astrology. So it feels really special to
have you here. Thank you for for being here.
You're welcome and love getting to be with you in any way I can.
That's so cute. Thanks, Sage.
You've always been such a cute icon for me.
I think I told you I get my my fashion inspiration from you.
And I was thinking that this morning because I was putting on
this, you know, kind of wool flannel over shirt that's big.
Wait, Sage would love this shirt.
It's like this cozy because it's so cold here.
That looks cool. You're coming in as a guest in
Sagittarius season and we'll put this podcast out near the Gemini
full moon and the Sagittarius Gemini axis is an axis that is 1
often associated with learning and teaching.
All of the polarity axes in astrology represent what could
be considered opposites, but are often part of the same thing.
And so the axis of Sagittarius in Gemini is an axis that holds
a polarity between the big picture of something, this is
Sagittarius, and the small details which is Gemini.
Gemini is associated with learning and curiosity and
asking questions and making connections between this thing
and that thing, and Sagittarius is associated with the synthesis
and the philosophy and the perennial truths that are
gleaned from the combination and the bringing together the
coherence of the details. Both Gemini and Sagittarius are
associated with storytelling and mythology and how our minds and
consciousness get shaped through the ways that we give and
receive information, and also through the ways that we respond
to our own curiosity and go on our own quests for learning and
seeking. And this is really where you and
I came together over 30 years ago, or I think about 30 years
ago now. Yeah.
Do you remember? Of course, when it was.
What do you remember? What I remember is, I presume
that your mom contacted me because of Melissa, that
connection. I mean, I, I don't, I have no
idea how, but she contacted me and she had heard that I work
with young people and that I'm not real supportive of
mainstream educational programs for particularly people that in
the end I met you and it was like, Oh my gosh, this is the
worst nightmare come true for this person.
But she made an appointment and she came with you.
She looked like a wreck. And you were a vision of the
night you had, I don't know if your hair was dyed blacker than
it could possibly be, but it was black.
And you had black nail Polish, black clothes, a black aura,
were very angry and frustrated, gifted young woman who knew that
what she was doing with her life at that point was very
destructive for her soul. It's just destruction.
And I mean, I just sort of read the signs and I'd met enough
people, not that point because I was very involved in helping
kids get out, you know, break away.
And I was like, oh, OK, here's a, here's a fugitive from the
system almost because your mom was saying, I cannot let her
out. If I do, I just, I'm sure she'll
die. She'll just die.
She'll do something very destructive and it'll end up
killing her. And so we had very, very long
talk. And I was completely in
alignment with what I thought you needed, which was to get
out. And I talked to your mom in
front of you about, you know, what that could look like.
But in front of you was really hard to talk with her because
the two of you were really very oppositional to one another a
lot. And in the end, she walked away,
you know, thinking she was going to think about it and wanted to
talk to me more. And my whole advice was for her
to let you out and to trust the process and that I would be
delighted to help walk through it with you guys.
And it was very emotional. It was the tension between the
two of you was so strong that I said, well, if we're going to
meet in the future, I think I'd rather do it separately.
And, and I got my clutches on you.
And you ended up joining our little group of young people who
had busted loose from stuff. And we were writing, you know,
which was probably a really good thing for you to get to do.
And you met Ayana and my daughter, and your bond has been
long lasting as well. And she went through a lot of
crises with you, including the death of your mom, who you
finally were able to reconcile with.
And she could see the beauty of you beginning to flower because
you got out of a destructive system that was sucking the life
out of you. It was amazing to watch you
flourish, creating your own life experiences that would serve you
where you were at that moment in time in your life.
And you brought artists together to teach you.
And you got in a very creative self exploration program with
Melissa. And I went, wow, she really is
something you know, and let's see if we can support her
becoming who she's meant to be. And here you are, beautiful.
Wow, thanks for that. I'm going to go back a little
bit to fill in some details for people listening.
So when I was 13, I think I was 13 when my mom found you through
her contact with Melissa Michaels, who's someone that
I've definitely talked about at Embodied Astrology.
Melissa is the leader, guide, teacher, human connecting
network that brought Ramon Parish and I together as well.
It's been an Embodied Astrology facilitator and more recently,
Syed Menswear, who's doing a workshop series at EA.
And at that point, at 13 years old, I was suicidal.
I was running away from home for long periods of time.
My mom had tried all kinds of disciplinary measures with me.
I didn't listen. I broke out and I really hated
school. I, I had loved school as a
younger person and then getting into junior high school or
middle school, I really started to hate it.
And I didn't want to go. And my mom couldn't really
conceive of how that could happen in a good way.
But she was an astrologer, and she did have my chart.
And at least she had an orientation towards
understanding that I had innate chart, chart, chart verified and
confirmed placements that, you know, I really needed to be my
own authority. And so she found you.
And you had been a Waldorf teacher for over a decade, but
you're really a person who needs to be your own authority as
well. And so even though Waldorf is so
much more expansive and creative than a lot of public school was
still too narrow and boxed in for you.
And so that I believe, was the first year that you were really
exploring supporting young people to unschool and you were
thinking about how to be an unschooling mentor and guide.
And so you took me on. You graciously took me on.
And I loved you right away. I remember at that time I was
definitely a punk. I was a goth, as you described.
And as many, you know, tween Goths do, I loved vampires and
you just got right into it with me.
You weren't scared at all. You were totally fascinated.
You all had your own love of vampires and you were like,
let's go there. And then you had this this
writing group, and we met twice a week and it was very much cast
of misfits and oddballs, you know, teenagers who for various
reasons found you and trusted you.
And then you mentioned your daughter Ayana, who's my
longest, closest friend that I got to meet through you.
And so I just want to say, Sage, that I really consider you one
of my most important teachers and mentors in my life.
You said you thought my mom thought I would die if I left
school. I knew I would die if I stayed
in it. That's the truth right there.
That is the truth. Yeah, I, I was suicidal.
I really was not feeling like I could stay there in any of it.
And meeting you and the world that you started to open for me
and in my own agency and curiosity and the way that you
were not scared at all of the hard place that I was in or this
kind of, you know, intense aura that that I had.
You just welcomed me so wholeheartedly.
And I think, I think you and Melissa and my mom, you know, in
the ways that you collaborated, really saved my life at that
point, trusting me. And I'm looking at our charts
and, you know, you and I both have really important placements
in the signs of Sagittarius and Gemini.
One that is just popping out right away is that our nodal
axis is almost exactly the same. So the North and the South nodes
are the places where eclipses happen.
Every 18 years or so they return to the same place.
To be a nodal twin with somebody who is not your age is a really
special generational sinistry. And so you and I are both people
who have the North Node in Gemini and the South Node in
Sagittarius. And the nodal axis in astrology
is considered to be linked with past lives and karma.
And the South Node talks about what you have already done, what
you're coming from, the karmic past life, generational DNA
inheritance that you have, however you want to think about
it, But what you're coming in with already, and in some ways
what you have to let go of in order to do what you're here to
do, this lifetime. And the North Node is the
evolutionary path. This is the place where you are
compelled. Even when it feels super
challenging and confusing and you don't know how it's going to
be done or it feels really hard, but you have to go in this new
direction. So people like us who have the
South Node and Sagittarius are people.
And I don't mean to, you know, toot our own horns or whatever,
but I've heard this from so many astrologers.
You know, we are people who have had so many past lives as
teachers already. You know, we're people who come
in seeking wisdom and also containing and having a lot of
wisdom, people who are naturally drawn to deep knowledge paths,
the perennial wisdoms, philosophy, religion, mythology,
mysticism, esoteric teachings in the occult.
And we take to them really quickly.
You know, we start to learn them and get the big picture rapidly.
And I, I think you and I are both people like that.
But in this lifetime, we're not here to be group types.
We have a strong mistrust of hierarchical wisdom models,
right? So that one guy up at the front
of the classroom or the one guy on the dais, you know, the one
who is channelling to the mini, you and me both kind of feel
suspicious of those types. And we're both people who really
need to learn and cultivate knowledge in more horizontal and
peer or collaborative kinds of learning spaces.
We trust that our colleagues and peers and people who are younger
than us also have a lot of knowledge.
We trust that the mini voices are what actually will bring the
wisdom through that it's not the one voice of the enlightened,
you know, one being, but it's the mini.
And there's something about I think having the North Node in
Gemini that really needs to democratize learning and give
everybody the role of the teacher and everybody the role
of the student all at the same time.
And there's a very kind of fractal orientation or prismatic
orientation towards learning. And I think you and I are both
people who've done things like inviting, inviting lots of
different people to come and teach, for example, or trying to
put together groups where everybody in the group is a
leader in the group. So I'll pause there and just
ask, Yeah. What resonates for you or pings?
And have you thought about your North and South nodes before?
I know you've worked a little bit with astrology, not much,
but. It's beautiful listening to your
language. And of course, you know, the the
depth of my appreciation and understanding of astrology is
really very limited. But I like hearing all of those
words that, you know, somebody wrote down and figured out.
And I just know that about you and me.
I mean, we really do have a really strong connection.
No matter whether I see you once every 10 years or, you know,
recently we've had a little bit of flow back and forth.
The connection is strong. And I agree, you know, we're
both fringy. And you know, this experience
that that I'm having right now is a reality that there are
forces that are really interested in subduing fringers
a lot. Well, I want to go what you were
saying. The the thing about seeing
wisdom and teaching that comes from all directions.
And it has, I've said these words out loud to a lot of
people too, that the my work is my life and it's my purpose.
And I walk into any situation, the people that I hire to be
assistants or colleagues or the children that I open my doors to
and their families, that that's my landscape of personal and
spiritual growth. These are my teachers.
And if things are going wrong in any of those areas, the first
thing I often do is just look to myself and what's my role in
this. And the idea of working with
communities of people has always been part of my life work as
well. And I just had the opportunity
to be in a writing class that's happening, a woman who is using
our facility right now. And so I was sitting in the
class and there was a decent sized number of people sitting
in a circle and they all had their writing pads on their
laps. And they were all, you know,
engaged and listening and they were they, there was some
conversation and then they were all put back into writing.
And so they went from sort of being connected in this circle,
but very peripherally really, if you ask me, to something that
was a solo. They're sitting there and
they're writing in a book and she wanted a lot of feedback
after I was in this group because she was asking me to
witness what she does and give her information and feedback.
And the whole thing that really resonated with me was how
isolated everybody felt to me. They're just in their little
seat with their little book and they're it's not saying a lot.
And once in a while they would share what they wrote, but it
nobody like connected with it. It was just sharing, and then
everybody would say a couple of words that the person wrote that
they thought were enlivening or whatever, and they went about
it. And so we talked a lot about
what she was trying to do as a writer and how that's different
than community things and stuff like that.
And I said, well, I can't, I can't even relate to you from
the perspective of how isolated it felt and not wanting to try
to help you figure out how to connect.
These people would make a connection, a human connection
with who these individuals are and start building the community
of the writing class. And, and it was, I had no idea I
would go in that direction. But it's the only thing I think
about, and it's the only thing that's going to get anything
figured out in this crazy world is we figure out how to be with
one another and how to connect and no grow Anyway, Yeah.
Yeah, I feel that as well in the work that I do.
And a lot of what happens at embodied astrology spaces is
self reflective. You know, we, a lot of the
spaces that we need are for people to kind of explore their
own process. And we might have even somewhat
of a similar structure in terms of how people share things.
And there might not be so much connection within the group in
all of our events. But the intention and the
momentum of embodied astrology has been progressively moving
towards bringing people more into community and connection.
I, I think community is a word that at the moment I'm
struggling with a little bit because it's so overused, but to
bring people into connection and to facilitate deepening
relationship so that those relationships end up guiding the
space rather than my idea or the facilitator's idea of what
should happen. And one thing that is just true
about, you know, doing that kind of work is that it requires time
and the softness or the willingness to share and to be
vulnerable and to receive questions and also to like offer
feedback and stuff like this. And that, in my experience at
least, is not taught in public school.
It's often not modelled in work environments or family
environments. In our larger society as
Americans, you know, we do not see that model at all.
What we see is top down leadership and I know that you
know, having a Gemini N node for me and a Sagittarius S node, a
lot of the time I would rather just go off onto the mountaintop
by myself. You know, I think that this
Sagittarius S node, it is this feeling of having a lot of
comfort and familiarity and desire for personal truth and
expansion and connection or communion with the divine,
however that might be language or conceived of.
But then there is this constant unstopping compulsion to be with
people and to share with people and to ask everybody to come
down from the mountain and meet in the valley together, you
know, and share. And for me, that oftentimes
feels like a big struggle because what happens in
community spaces can be frustrating.
It can be slow, it can be confusing.
All kinds of power dynamics and conflicts can come up.
Then time and process and letting go of ego and changing
the plans are all required. I feel like I'm in a constant
learning about this and having known you for three decades now,
which is blowing my mind. I've seen you navigate these
kinds of situations over and over again.
And I'm wondering what have you learned about what it takes for
people to be together and to lead together and to teach each
other? Because I, I know that you have
bumped into the wall and you've gotten all kinds of harsh
feedback. You've had people get real mad
at you. You've experienced community
falling apart and you've also experienced a lot of different
kinds of repair. Well, one thing I'm really good
at is conflict resolution. Truly tell us about it.
I. Learned from my own personal
experiences. I have a really intense
personality and I tend to speak very directly, but I know what
brings people together the best way, and I learned it over the
years of the work that I had. My whole gesture was when I
finally left institutions and sort of created my own was that
I was not interested in academia.
Nothing. Reading, writing, math, history,
history. Why would anybody go study
history? It's there's nothing true in any
of most of those history books forever.
But what I realized was I wanted to work with communities of
people, not just kids, but also with their parents and the staff
that we had. We would create a sort of fake
village community kind of situation where people came and
the parents were always involved in what we were doing.
We would open in the mornings with a morning circle.
We would end the day with a afternoon circle and all of the
parents were invited to be there so that the kids had the feeling
that they were being held within the context of a group of
people, a cluster of families that were interested in their
best. And then I would think of all of
these ways that I could seduce the parents to coming in and
being a part of what we were doing.
Oh, we're crafting or we're making sets for our play.
Can you come in? Can you help us?
Oh, we're the kids. You know, their voices are so
small. They really need support to be
successful in the performances. You know, and performance was
probably the highlight of everything I've ever done with,
with people, adults or children. And they of course wanted to do
it because it wasn't about them, it was for their kids.
So I'd say they need support. Can you be in a choir?
Can you help us, you know, learn these songs that Megan wrote and
that we, when we like to offer and the kids just get really
quiet when they're performing and stuff.
This would really help the play snap.
And of course they wanted to do it for their kids and all of
these people who really came from different walks of life and
stuff. We're suddenly singing in the
choir and then putting on costumes to match the play.
You know, like we did Maya the bee and everybody dressed like
an insect while we were in up there singing and stuff.
But anyway, and then because Megan and I were very serious
about the story material that we used and that it was high
teaching, we would do an adult gathering where we spoke to the
medicine of the story, which was a children's story, fairy tale,
myth or legend, that sort of thing.
But this was to speak to the adult and the the medicine that
came out of the story. And sometimes we would even
workshop it a little, which kept, you know, this one thing,
the story that turned into a performance that I tried to
bring everybody in. Could they help pay the sets?
Could they help work with the the story material, the lines
and stuff with the kids or whatever.
And everybody got on board, not because they wanted to improve
themselves or be community people, but because it was for
their child. And suddenly there's the
everybody has a common vision. We are going to make this the
most successful thing so our kids experience success.
An it's never not worked. It's never not worked.
I afterwards this the most amazing thing I ever did.
I'm just so happy to be a part of all of this or people running
up to me afterwards and saying I want to be a part of this.
What can I do? And I go, I don't know, you
know, I mean, I don't know how to make you a part.
We just have a staff, you know, and if you parent and child you
want in the program, we could do that and maybe I could hire you.
I don't, but, but, and, and through the, the performances,
it always happened. You know, I, I always spoke to
the spirit of the story and I asked for their presence and
their inspiration and we listened a lot and we gave a
voice to the spirit totally, 100%.
And so somewhere always there would be places in the play
where you would feel something, something happened.
It was an amazement. And then we staffed.
Afterwards we would talk about these moments that happened.
You could just feel if it was so tangible.
Anyway, that is one way to do a successful community is work
with children and seduce the parents in to do something
creative. So I always said I'm not
teaching academics, I would like to be a support creatively for
families. You guys can teach all those
things you might be interested in teaching your children.
I'm interested in the arts and creative expression and building
community through that creative expression.
Yeah, a couple things about what you just said.
So for folks listening, Sage is talking about somebody named
Megan Chandler who worked with you for a really long time.
Megan is a singer-songwriter, incredible musician and
performance artist and educator and now a parent and she would
assist Sage. So after Sage departed from
working with older kids like me and you know, the the tweens and
teens that you took on and your unschooling adventures, then you
moved towards he was much younger kids and you had a
kindergarten. It was it a preschool on
kindergarten or what were the ages that you.
Were I'm not that interested in children until they start
dropping their teeth, Yeah, surely.
And it's what happens to them is really quite magical.
And so I, you know, and I really had a lot of contact and work
with children who were 6 and up, including teens and tweens.
They were also part of my work. So.
Yeah. And so you have this strategy
when you were doing your programs that every year you
would work with a story, a myth or a legend, and you worked with
stories from all over the world. And these were stories that had
some kind of perennial wisdom in them.
There was some deep teaching for the human spirit and maybe for
the life spirit, including humans, but not only.
And you got everybody involved and so everybody had a role.
And for anybody who's interested in, you know, thinking about
sages astrology, I'm just going to say you're a, you're a double
Pisces. You're sun rising Pisces, Libra
moon. And then sage also has Saturn
and Mars conjunction Cancer in her 5th house.
So some pretty powerful indicators of everybody actually
has a role. And we're going to involve
everyone here in telling a story and really bringing forth
wisdom. And I'm thinking just about the
investment and the equity that people experience when they're
given responsibility to be part of something and to Co create.
And that that is something that I've experienced with you since
I've known you, that you don't let anybody stay on the fringes
entirely, right? Like, you know, if if people are
fringy and they need to kind of hang out in the corners, that's
OK with you. But they're still going to have
a job and there will still be moments when they need to step
into leadership. And you mentioned, you know,
having a really direct communication style.
And Sage is also Venus, Mercury conjunct in Aries with a Natal
Mercury retrograde trying Pluto in Leo.
People are thinking about that. And my experience with you as a
communicator is that you are very direct and you don't seem
to have the internal rule book that a lot of people have about
what is appropriate or proper to say.
And so if it's on your mind, you're going to say it.
And sometimes you ask really intense feeling questions.
I know that there have been times when I've flat out felt
interrogated by you, though, in a, in a fully loving way, you
know, with a lot of presence and curiosity.
And what makes it feel possible to engage with you is that you
are not going to be afraid of somebody's answer.
And you know, you'll ask really big.
Questions conflict. That's right.
And so if somebody feels pissed off that you asked them that
question or they have a really intense response for themselves,
you know, whatever it is, you embrace it and you're not afraid
of it. You're not trying to control it.
You're not trying to like get people to change their answers.
You just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper into it.
And what I have experienced in relationship with you in that
way is, you know, needing to confront sometimes my own
feelings of vulnerability and exposure because I'm quite a
private person. I'm somewhat of a slow
processing person. So sometimes you'll ask me
something and I'm like, I'm not ready to talk about that or, you
know, not in this space. But you've taught me so much
about communication because you communicate fearlessly or what
feels to be fearless. Maybe you feel some fear
sometimes, but. You're not holding yourself
back, editing yourself before you say something and you really
welcome that from other people. And and then it feels, you know,
similar to everybody having a job to do, it also feels like
all parts of us get to belong with you.
And that is such an exceptional quality that all parts get to
belong. You know, when you were like,
OK, you know, bring your angsty negativity into my space.
I'm just going to get curious with you about it.
Suddenly there was a lot of magic there for me that I always
knew was there but had never really had anyone hold it with
me. So I couldn't believe in it
myself, you know, or it felt somehow scandalous and secret.
But then as soon as you were like, Oh yes, there's magic
here, I became much more empowered and I really started
to find the healing gifts and the struggle and the pain that I
was going through and where that was leading me.
You know what I think is interesting, at least right now
in this moment in time, is it was kind of like the universe
was waiting for your mom to let go so that you could start
really unfolding and this all of these amazing people came
forward to meet you here. I this what about that?
And it was just so beautiful watching that unfolding.
And it was amazing watching your your shock.
Is this possible? Could this really be happening
to me that people really want to know who I really am?
You know, let me let me unfold before your eyes.
It was well, you brought tears to my eyes.
Oh. Yeah, I mean, you've brought
tears to my eyes many times. Sage, I want one thing to say to
you when you were talking about going in the mountain and then
having to come down, I asked. Well, I'm very private and I
don't like being social. Same get M all the time.
You too. But I'm not, I mean, I have my,
you know, I shut the door and I go away and, and I don't go to
parties and I don't do big social gatherings.
You know, the biggest thing I ever went to recently was a, a
memorial and you know, my age now, there's a lot of people
dying. And it was amazing because I did
it so infrequently, but it was structured with such high
intention. It was the most exotic,
uplifting moment that I had had in large groups in quite a
while, and I loved every minute of it.
And I thought, hey, maybe, you know, my later lives, I'm going
to be going to lots of memorials.
You might wonder if this will happen all of the time.
That would be fun. So that was great to think about
that. But I too feel the call to be in
community and this is how I create my community.
My social life is very private and very small, and I spend a
lot of time alone. Yeah, I resonate with that too.
Out and I feel like my in breath in it all has nourished me and
and helped me sort of pull my best forward and then I can step
out and I can give that 100%. Yeah, but it doesn't mean that
those people are necessarily my friends.
Well, you know, I'm curious about this because this brings
me back to this idea of story as teacher, you know, story as the
path, which is something that I think is a deeply indigenous way
of being in community and being accountable and understanding
what's happening or being able to at least engage with what's
happening. And I feel that it's something
that you have really promoted in the spaces that I've been in
with you, is this orientation towards being in a story
together, Being in a story that we're sharing, whether that's in
the telling and retelling of it or the making a play or writing
songs about it or just recounting it and thinking about
it. I've been in a lot of spaces
with you where you bring story into the space.
You bring a myth, you bring a legend, you bring a deity or
archetype into the space. But the way that you do it asks
people to personalize the myth as well as collectivize it.
And so there's. Yeah, there's a way that, you
know, I think for both of us as people who are actually deeply
solitary and private and yet compelled to engage with the
collective and in kind of large social ways, actually.
Because, you know, you say you're not social.
And I can relate with that. Yet you and I are two people who
convene groups, you know, more than most people that I know,
right? You know, we're constantly
gathering groups. And I think in order to do that,
we have to balance with a lot of time alone.
And in order to do any kind of intense group or collective
process, individuals need to be on their own journeys and to be
part of a group process and not in your own journey and
following your own quest, you know, through that journey can
be very destabilizing and confusing.
And I think that's part of where people lose themselves in
groups, right? And in in relationship.
So, you know, since I've known you, you've been working very
deeply with archetypal mythic patterns, whether that's the
hero's journey, you know, of some kind, right?
Or the protagonist going on some kind of quest.
There's always the leaving of what's familiar.
There's always the moving out into the unknown.
There's always the period of challenge and confusion and
going into the darkness in some way.
There's always the helping guides that are encountered.
There's always the tricksters. There's always the inner
trickster or the addiction patterns or the, you know, parts
of the self that have to be transformed in some way.
And then there's always this lesson, you know, that only is
learned by going through the process and being on the
journey. And I feel that you you have
this way of bringing groups of people into a story together,
while you're also asking each person in that group to consider
the story for themselves. Absolutely.
So I I'd like to just speak to a couple of stories right now.
And the first one is probably the most longest standing heroic
character in my mythos, my internal mythos, who is a mouse.
And she is the most courageous character.
And she hears a call, she's inspired by a vision of the
sacred mountains and she decides she's leaving the gang, She's
going out on her own. Nobody believes in her, trusts
what her vision is and thinks she's crazy.
And her journey leads her to the sacred mountains.
But going to cry right now. She has lots of teachers along
the way, but to do that journey, she has to give up her eyes.
So at the very end of the story, she's blind.
She gives her other, her last eye to this being that she
believes, of course, these are all animals, Buffalo and wolf
and that sort of thing, who are far greater than her and they
deserve to be actualized. And if they need the eye of a
mouse, it's theirs. I surrender to it.
So she surrenders. The last surrenders to the wolf.
She gives him his eyes because he has no idea what his purpose
is in life. He's so disoriented and crazy.
Her eye flies out into the wolf and he's made whole.
And he says, little sister, thank you for your giveaway.
And I know your sacrifice. But guess what?
I'm the guide to the sacred mountains and I'm going to take
you the rest of the way. And right now there's been a
mouse on my shrine for many months and I acknowledge my
blind spot that I'm just blind and I don't know.
I don't know what how to navigate where I am in my life
right now. And I take comfort in the wisdom
of just surrendering at all. She she gave up everything
surrendering it all and just letting go and for sure not
having an idea how how she's going to manifest her destiny
which is to go to the sacred mountains.
And the ending of the story is spectacular and she turns into
an eagle in the end and has the most far reaching vision and
capacities that she is gifted with because of her wonder,
compassion and curiosity. And that that story's been in my
life since 1987. That's when I found that story.
You know, in so many stories, you think you're going finding
takes a long time to find a true, true story, including the
jumpy mouse story. You know that I'd seen it around
and it was really superficial and silly.
But I finally found the true, true story, and it's amazing.
So she's been part of that hero's journey thing.
But now, you know, they're saying it's all about community.
You don't like that word, but it is, you know, people.
Well, first of all, we shall be known by the company we keep at
this point. And so my bookkeeper buys these
tickets to go here, Michael Mead, who was the big guy in the
60s. And I go, I want to go do that,
you know, I never want to go do anything social public or
whatever. And but she was so thrilled to
be giving this gift to me and Christopher.
So I get myself ready for the whole thing and bring a presents
where I'm saying, all right, I have a question, you know, what
is the story for our time? And if I can, I'm going to ask
this man that question. And I never talk in groups like
that. You know, this guy's giving a
download. It's pretty amazing, sort of.
But I'm like, I don't know. And then he says something that
just catches me about groups of people, and I go.
So I raised my hand and he calls on me right away and I say,
what? What is the story for our Times
Now? What's the myth?
What's the legend? What's the folk tale?
Whatever. He goes, I have just the story
for you. And so he just right there, he
stops and he tells it. And it was very brief and very
short. And given what I know about
story and stuff, I was filling in the blanks like crazy.
And he said, so there was this group of people.
And somehow or another, he, these are my words.
Now spirit comes to these people out of need and says the world
has lost its center. And you, you cluster of people
that I'm talking to right now, you have got to go out into the
world, into the forest, into the oceans, into the depths.
And you have to find your golden thread and you have to come back
and you have to weave those threads together to bring the
earth back to its center. And I immediately knew that this
was a profound download, you know, that I was getting, you
know, people coming together. And there's this amazing book
that has become almost Bible like for me, you know, most
recently, but it's called The Return of the Bird Tribe by Ken
Carey. And at the end of this book,
this being is doing a download and he's saying it's time for
you to go back to reincarnate, to go back in and do this work.
And you know, one that I personally, I believe that many
of my incarnations were into very brutal fear dynasties, just
really, really bad. And I've had a past life dream
that I've never forgotten that really enforces that as well.
So and this spiritual being is saying it's you have to go back
and more than likely you'll Incarnate into another fear
dynasty that they're just, it's the dominator, you know, and
you're going to take with you a gift, all of you that are going
back. And that's us.
He's talking about the 60s now and he says we're going to give
you a gift to take with you. And when you need it, it's going
to happen. And the gift was melodies.
There will be songs that will catch you and it'll awaken.
It'll quicken something in you and you'll remember this moment
and you'll remember what you're supposed to be doing and you
will step forward. So I'm thinking about melodies
and stuff. He's talking about the 60s.
I mean, just think about all of the songs of the 60s that just
tweaked you just so to the wake up.
And I was thinking of the most current song at that point when
I read that part of the book, which so many people in the
circles that I move in and stuff always want to sing.
And it's that we shall be known by the company we keep.
That song has caught the imagination of so many, many
people that it comes up. People just start singing it.
Everybody knows that song that I, you know, run into.
Not that I have, like, a vast social network, but a lot of
people know that song. So then I started compiling a a
little list of all of the Wake Up songs that I feel I've
encountered, you know, and feel moved by or inspired by.
And there are a lot of really amazing performers these days
who are singing Wake Up songs that are really moving, really
powerful. Yeah.
Yeah, there's something happening right now that hasn't
happened since the 60s is Chiron and Aries.
It's an interesting moment for that kind of return as well.
You can find that astrologically what I'm saying to you right now
about the melodies, well. I can think about a generational
connection between the late 60s and now as a time when civil
rights, human rights are really taking center stage and focus,
as is the wounding pattern of toxic masculinity and white
supremacy and the weaponization of the ego that I think, you
know, American culture has done, you know, really complete job of
manipulating. You know, this kind of sense of
toxic individualization where you know that the whole idea of
a hero, you know, the whole idea of one person somehow being able
to prevail, pick themselves up by the bootstraps, be self-made.
You know, whatever is such a destructive myth and so far from
the actual truth of what happens to uplift any single person.
You know how any individual might achieve their own
greatness or something can never be separated from the assistance
and the help and relationships that are part of their journey.
And so that I think there's something about this time that
is the return or kind of thematic has a thematic
resonance with that time. Definitely.
And there's also, yeah, there are larger generational transits
in terms of the outer planets and how they are in cyclical
relationship with each other that definitely, you know, it
feels like a a return to a lot of those themes and those times.
But there is something in particular that you said that I
want to come back to. And maybe this will be where we
close our conversation today. But you talked about this moment
in your life and the current quality of time being a time
when you, you know, feel that you don't have sight and that
you can't see where to go and what's next.
And then the story of jumping Mouse when she gives away her
eyes and she doesn't know how she's going to get to the
mountain. Like there's something that's
calling you and you don't know how to get there.
And you've really needed to just surrender to the process.
And so Sage is a late degree Pisces son.
You have your son at 27° of Pisces.
You're born in the last few days of Pisces season, and currently
the outer planets Neptune and Saturn are both right around
that place in Pisces. Neptune has been in Pisces since
2011, and Neptune is considered to be the modern ruler,
contemporary planetary affiliate of Pisces.
And so they both bring energies of dream and imagination and
magic fantasy, which are some of the more pleasurable parts of
Piscean energy and archetype. But they can also be influences
that are deeply confusing, that are highly addictive, that are
full of delusions and delusions and confusion and that really
requires surrender. So these are energies and and
kind of archetypal patterns that are about what is whole in an
enormous sense. So that like the wholeness of
the universe right there, the wholeness of the Earth is bigger
than we can comprehend. And if we even try to comprehend
it, we'll slip into madness. You know, it's because it's so
big and it's so intense and inside of the everything is
stuff that's terrifying and so full of trauma and grief and
completely absurd, illogical kinds of things that are still
real, You know, what happened and have happened.
And so I think that when we have to encounter these kinds of
energies in the world and in ourselves, we are often brought
to our knees, you know, symbolically and really forced
into circumstances that feel devastating to our egos, where
we lose our sense of self, where we do feel really confused,
where things are very foggy, where we don't have a feeling of
being able to see or sense. And then there is this kind of
metaphorical blindness and a real reaching to the ineffable,
to the numinous, you know, to the spiritual and some kind of
plea or petition for help. And Saturn as an energy is known
for challenge and obstruction and restriction and being a
harsh authority figure, punitive teacher.
And Saturn this week actually is stationing direct on your son.
So it's right at 27°. Neptune has been close by for a
while. And.
Saturn and Neptune are both getting ready to leave Pisces.
They'll be out by early next year.
Saturn will be back for 30 years.
You'll you'll be ancestor by then in the spirit realms.
Maybe I will be too, maybe everyone listening, who knows.
But Neptune definitely won't come back to Pisces until we're
all along gone because it has 165 year orbit around the sun.
So it's a once in a lifetime opportunity and once in a
generation or not even every generation opportunity to
experience Neptune and Pisces. But because you have your son
here, which is such a personal point and in medical astrology,
it rules your heart and your spine, these transits are very
personal for you. You know you are getting an
upfront close up experience of what do Neptune and Saturn
together in the late degrees of Pisces demand.
And this is personalized and unique for you and your context
and conditions in your life with the gifts and the challenges
that you have. But you know, this brings me to
two questions for you. So one question has to do with
the times that we're in right now.
So you and your personal life are experiencing a number of
things that I won't go into. You can if you want, but these
conditions in your life, the circumstances of your life
totally from outside of your control, smash down into your
reality and completely sever, you know, a lot of the tether
that your reality had to the the functional aspects of of like
what was creating it, right? And so all of a sudden you're
thrown into this maelstrom, this chaotic circumstance where you
are having a lot taken away from you.
You are challenged by punitive, rigid, authoritarian structures
of the state and you have to surrender.
And you are being thrown into some kind of process that is
uncertain. You can't see how it's going to
turn out. And it is a complete trust dive
for you and it that's the only way it can be.
You don't actually have a choice.
So you are experiencing this right now, and you're a person
who I know can glean an archetypal lesson through your
own personal experience. What are you learning in your
life right now about surrender in times of chaos, confusion,
and deep fear? Is there any way in the
circumstance that you can see like something is happening that
is doing something for you that is evolving your soul further?
And I'm going to ask you a second part of that question
because you mentioned music and melodies.
And so the second part of the question just has to do with
Pisces as a very creative energy and it and a sign in the Zodiac
that is known for making music and film and art and using the
arts really to help transform and transcend and lift
consciousness or move consciousness into new
directions. So the second part of my
question is how you know, what is this experience doing for you
as an artist? Because we haven't even talked
about that part of your life. But you are an artist and you
are a creative person, and you're someone who I know
reaches to the creative as well. So maybe those are, you know, 2
separate questions, or they're part of the same question, or
you want to just ditch them both and go on your own tangent.
Thank you for the pleasure of going my own way.
I would say that the biggest teacher for me right now, and
you experienced it with me just crying all of a sudden in this
podcast is my feelings publicly, You know, maybe I'd get
irritated or something, but I would never be vulnerable.
I would never cry. And I I used to egoically go, I
don't cry. I never cry.
I have cried every day in my meditation day after day since
last February, every single day, right to this moment in time.
I have never, I have cried rivers.
I have felt so much grief and still live with the wonderment
of will this ever end And the creative inspiration out of it
is that the work that I want to go forward and has to do with
creating a space for having conversations with people.
And when at one point in a, you know, a journal thing, I just
wrote down all the things I would love to talk with people
about and just lay it out there and just say, if you want to
sign up with one person to come and talk to me about this or 20
of you want to talk about just we'll make a plan and we'll make
a date and that's what we'll do. And I just want to sit in
conversation. I want to sit in conversation
like I've been sitting with you. I want to be vulnerable.
I don't want to be the know it all.
I just want to be in conversation.
So I think I just answered both of them really.
There is just it's very serious what the government is doing
around people coming together and gathering it.
It has been astonishing with Ayana and I talking to different
government people. Well, can we do this?
No, you can't gather and do that.
You cannot gather here in Boulder and have 5 friends come
over and teach them how to make calendula SAP in your own home.
That's against the city law. What I've learned is that the
buzzword is safety and the city, that's what they say.
This is for your safety. It's for the children's safety.
Although in the 30 years I've been doing this program,
nobody's ever even gone to the hospital or had anything happen
to them. And the other word is, you know,
it's best if you just run your program online.
This is, this is an insidious thing, this online thing.
And that's what they want to have happen.
Go into your homes, be online, do all your work online.
Don't come together with this woman that's doing the writing
class. She finally had a group of
people for me to watch because she wanted me to evaluate her
online programs. And I go, I, I don't even know
how to do that. And I went into one online
program of another woman who had wanted me to speak.
And it was so strange to me. And I told her, I can't do this.
I cannot do this online thing doesn't work for me.
I just need to have bodies in front of me and then I know what
to do. I want to fill in your story a
little bit just so our listeners know a couple more of the
details. So Sage, you and Ayana, along
with other teachers that you've worked with, have run a nature
based homeschool support program for a long time.
We honor the spirit that moves in all things, particularly
nature. We just hang out in nature a
whole bunch, you know, And if we are songs or if we do creative
things, it's outside. And we're often reciting poetry
about the wonder of nature and the amazement of the wheel of
the year and. And your whole curriculum is
based on seasonal change. It's based on natural cycles of
growth and myth and story. And you do a lot of experiential
hands on learning with young kids.
And what I know from my personal experience being a not so young
kid in your program, but also being around the program for a
long time is that this is a very powerful and extremely positive
education for people, the kids and their parents included, that
the young people love the program.
They excel and thrive and you and Ayana have an orientation
towards radical inclusion that really works.
And so the kids that come in with all their little
personality perks in the ways that they are, are accepted as
they are. Everybody has a role.
Everybody is accepted, everybody is supported to support
everybody else. My understanding is that in
Colorado, and maybe specifically in Boulder County, there is a
real push to shut down the nature based education programs.
A whole bunch. Of and that part of what is
coming up in the name of safety is really having the impact of
separating children from the environment.
Totally. We've had a health department
kind of person come in and they go, if you have children here
again, they cannot eat any of these plants and they cannot
harvest the garden food out of your gardens and eat it.
Right. And you've had organic gardens
for decades and you've been feeding people for decades, and
nobody's gotten sick from eating there.
They've probably gotten a lot healthier and built a personal
relationship to the food and the land.
I mean, it's just like it's, it feels like I'm in a time warp or
something and I've been dropped in such strange land, you know?
I mean, I'm just endlessly talking to people.
I cannot believe the words that are coming out of their mouth.
Oh, you use this? This is the health people.
Well, you'll have to sterilize this sand once a week that they
play in. The sand, this you're going to
have to sterilize the sand and the sticks, right?
The sticks that the kids play with.
Yeah. And if you if they cut
themselves, the first thing you do is put on plastic gloves to
protect yourself from them. And I believe that the children
that are growing up with this kind of mentality, which is in a
lot in the public schools, it happens a lot, are taught that
other people are dangerous and you need to cover yourself up
with plastic to protect yourself from them.
Yeah. You don't want to get too close
because they might make you sick.
You need to have barriers between you and them.
People are not. You can't trust other people.
Yeah. All right, so listening to you,
I'm going to glean through my own biased perspective, maybe a
couple of collective lessons that you as a solar person, you
know through your heart and your spine and in your energy and
personality, you've really been meeting, meeting first hand and
needing to meet. So you said that you've been
crying every day. And I feel that this is a moment
in time when it is so important for so many people to feel the
feelings that have not had space to be felt maybe for hundreds of
years, maybe for thousands of years.
That there is a build up and an accumulation of unfelt feelings.
And that build up and accumulation is being added to
every single day by the kinds of attitudes and policies that are
shutting down your program and saying you need to sanitize the
sand. That these are the attitudes and
policies that pervade the world right now.
That there is so much institutional structure built on
fear and separating people from each other in the environment.
And so the other lesson that I'm taking from you right now, just
as a collective lesson, is the need to create the kinds of
structures that can hold small communities and groups of people
in more protected private ways in order to do the kinds of
gathering and convening that are actually needed right now and
that are not being supported by the state.
And SAGE just held up a sign. You can hold it up again, I can
read it. She just held up a sign.
They just purchased because in part of what they need to do
because of what's happening with the state is they're changing
their their license from a homeschooling program to a
private ministry. So the sign says no trespassing.
This is a private ministry. No person or government official
may enter without membership. Trespassers will be prosecuted.
If you have a complaint, put it in writing, sign your name and
mail it to this address. I feel like the thing that
you're doing right now is something that I feel like I'm
doing in my own way as well, which is clarifying boundaries
in order to protect. The.
Humanness of the kinds of gatherings that I want to have
and that I want to be a part of and that I want to invite people
into. And I'm in a process with myself
right now, you know, around being a person who believes
deeply in inclusion and understanding that actually I
need, I need to have strong boundaries and containers and
that not everyone is welcome because not everyone has the
intention or the capacity to include.
And so those that are here to penalize, to exclude, to
villainize, to scapegoat, to, you know, punish, to deport, to
coerce, whatever, that energy can't be in here.
And it's a really interesting kind of tension to feel.
It is to me. It's offensive to think I'm
putting this sign on my gate, Christopher goes sage.
That means you're going to see that from the street.
And I go, I know it's really disgusting, isn't it?
But I mean, that's what we have to do.
Yeah, it's a it's an interesting moment.
It's just so crazy all the things that we're learning and
talking about right now. It's so, so crazy to maybe have
the chance to to do something new.
It's definitely not going to ever look like it did before.
I mean, we, there's a huge classroom space.
It's very beautiful. And I don't think it's going to
survive. Then we're going to have to tear
it down. So anything that, you know,
supports people gathering in an indoor space, for example,
they're just, and there's so many people who are like small
things like we've been doing who are so afraid and they're
watching us. They're talking to Ayanna all
the time about, well, what's happening now?
You know, we just, we're really worried about this, what's going
to happen to us, and it's across our whole nation.
That's right. Well, and this is what I'm
saying, you know that you as an individual right now where your
son is, you are a unique and distinct channel for this
collective moment because of these outer planet energies that
are generational influences sitting on your son, you know,
just being there. So you become a person that is
having a very personalized first hand experience.
And so while everybody in the country is living through this
particular moment, not everybody is experiencing it in the same
way. And I think that when you know,
when people have their personal placements contacted by these
outer planet energies, they become the Canaries in the coal
mine, so to speak, or they become the leaders for a
collective learning. And that's why I'm asking you,
what are you learning? What are you realizing in your
own experience because you are in the direct path of this
energy and you have something then to share with the
collective. And so being on the kind of
front lines of this particular battle around nature based
education and gathering, right, like private gatherings on
private property and the state coming down and really trying to
control and dictate how you gather and reduce the numbers
that you can gather with and. Or eradicate them.
You can't. No, you can't.
Eradicate, interfere and to really, you know, to come at you
with this language of institutional concern like
safety when so many of the rules around the institutional
concerns are not actually grounded in reality of what
keeps people safe. Because we know that what keeps
people safe in much more sustainable big picture, long
term ways is community and knowing each other and trusting
each other and knowing how to grow their own food right and
take care of lands like this would make us so much safer than
knowing how to sanitize sand that kids are playing in or you
know, keeping kids at home online away from each other.
That doesn't create any kind of safety in a long term way.
And so it does feel like there is a kind of collective battle
right now of what I'm going to just say is, you know, organic
human experience and need against the cold mechanized
bureaucracy of the state and really like the technocratic
state. You know, that we want everybody
online. We want to be able to enforce
our curriculum, you know, in a kind of mass distribution
through these different programs that all the, you know, families
need to be enrolled in if they're not going to go to
public school or they're wiping out the education department
completely, but at the same time, not supporting people to
really take on education for themselves.
So I'm hearing that on a collective level right now.
We need to cry. We need to feel our feelings.
We need to find ways to gather and and we need to find ways to
gather not only our people and together, but to gather in ways
that keep us remembering and sharing the actual survival
skills and methods of communal safety that are instinctual and
natural and very much carried down and passed through human
experience. There was a third lesson.
I now I'm now I've lost it. Do you remember what it is?
Maybe the third lesson is to find the melody to leave these
these golden strands together. Do you have a melody that's come
to you recently or anything? You know, I actually don't know
the song that you said that everybody knows, and I'm
wondering if you know it. We shall be known by the company
we keep. We shall be known by the company
we keep, by the ones who took around to tend these fires.
We shall be known by the ones who sow and reap the seeds of
change alive from deep within the earth.
It is time now. It is time now that we thrive.
It is time to lead ourselves into the world.
And it is time now. And what a time to be alive.
From this great turning we shall learn to lead in love.
From this great turning, we shall learn to lead in love.
It's a group called Mum. Use those.
Two things.