Hello and welcome to embodied astrology.
My name is Renee cells. I'm a Consulting.
Astrologer astrology teacher and somatic.
Educator. I'm interested in the ways
astrology helps expand conversations around embodiment
art, processed politics and more in this special episode.
I'll be talking with Michelle. Cassandra Johnson.
Michelle is an activist social justice Warrior author,
anti-racism consultant and trainer intuitive, healer and
yoga teacher. Practitioner.
She's also the author of skill in action and finding Refuge two
books that we've together mindfulness and spirituality
with the Practical work of dismantling racism and
participating in creating more Equitable and just relationships
and realities. I'm releasing this episode on
April 17 2022. It's the day after a full moon
in Libra, which was trying with Saturn in Aquarius and square to
Pluto in Capricorn. Libra is a sign that is often
associated. Baited with the word justice.
It asks for careful consideration relational tending
peacebuilding and mindful negotiations that assist and
support individuals to be accountable within their
relationships. Trying with Saturn in Aquarius.
This full moon asks us to labor together with discipline
integrity and commitment to our shared Humanity Square to Pluto.
This full moon also challenges us to confront the shadows of
History. The ways violence and Trauma
have shaped our world in lives. Ways we've internalized, these
violence has and perpetuate them so that we can attend to the
messy challenging necessary and beautiful work of
transformation. I am so grateful to Michelle for
her profound And Timely Guidance, the way she holds all
of these themes within her work and the space is she creates for
us to dive deeper into our personal practices, find refuge
and bring skill into our actions in this episode.
We'll talk about astrology and her chart a bit.
Of course. We're also going to talk about
the work of Maintaining connections between our
spiritual selves and our human bodies.
And Michelle will share from her experience as an energy worker
and a Healer and intuitive a witch and activist and guide
around how to Anchor in our hearts wisdom in times of stress
and overwhelm how to build resilience in connection and
relational spaces and how to navigate and attend to the
wounds and dislocation of white supremacy culture.
For more information on Michelle or to find out about her books
events or other upcoming offerings.
Check the show notes. or go to Michelle, see Johnson.com
Welcome back to embodied astrology.
You were the first guest, ever on this podcast.
I think that was like, three years ago now.
Mmm-hmm. Yeah, and your house, and my
house said me. Yeah.
Mmm. Yeah, and I had been thinking
about starting to do guest episodes for a while.
And then when Lisa met, and I combined forces, To support your
Workshop here at melt, like a really opportune moment.
And I want to thank you for being that, you know, initiator
and catalyser for for this because it's turned into a
really generative space. And also, for coming back, it's
been wonderful to watch your work and follow along with you
the last couple of years. Yeah.
Well, thank you for for having me back and responding to the
request and the call and for having me on the show as a guest
in the first place. So they can correct for the shut
for the work. I mean, it feels bigger than a
show. It feels like, you know, process
and work and yeah energy and so thank you for that.
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
It was interesting to start to learn about you last time to
learn about your practice as an intuitive and Do you consider
yourself a witch or do you have your own word, you know, spend
some time magic switch? Some.
Yeah. I mean, I used to print
different words. Magical person.
Yeah, sorcerer. Yeah, but yeah, it was, it was
cool to start to get to know you that way because I had known you
before through the work of, through your work with activism
and yoga and then also then getting to work with your chart
and you're a Leo. I'm a Leo to and felt like a lot
of kinship in the sense of the way that you draw upon many
different spaces and your work. And I really admire how you
bring them all together and in going through finding Refuge.
It feels like a new synthesis for you like a, like a lot of
new pieces are starting to come together.
So I was wondering. Finding Refuge came out this
year in 2021. Yeah, and yeah, and it explores
grief and and your personal experiences with grief, but also
the collective grief and the book offers hard work, and Care
practices for holding and healing grief, but then your
first book skill in action was published about three or three
and a half years ago and 2710 or I guess four years ago.
I that's now and that book was kind of aimed at radicalizing
yoga practitioners and bringing in this kind of really essential
piece of social Consciousness and tools of social justice to
help practitioners connect with some of the more foundational,
or underlying precepts of yoga philosophy, and I'm wondering if
if you can speak to the relationship between these two
books and the journey that you've been on between them and
what You know, if you feel that skill and action and your first
foray into publishing and and kind of archiving a lot of your
thoughts and process into a book form, opens for you that has
brought you into this into this work with grief.
Yeah, this is a big question. I know, skill in action needed
to come before finding Refuge that makes sense to me the
sequencing of it all. And and I think they're similar
in a lot of ways, not just in structure with the practices or
my stories. But also the themes its goal of
action is is really about how we create more Liberty.
Spaces and questions, we might ask to be more inclusive and to
notice how exclusive the industry wellness and yoga have
been historically in the west and, and the pain and grief that
comes along with one's Wellness, not being prioritized because of
the identities. They embody.
And so, that feels like a direct link to fighting Refuge because,
so many of the themes about The grief were experiencing as a
collective relate to how we're not able to be free and and
systems that are in place. And in the way of our freedom
there in place, to deny us Liberation and they are set up
not to care for for many of us based on our identities.
So, that feels like, okay, this a thread between the two two
books and and just experiences because they feel like, I mean
there, They're about my life. Right?
So feels like, yes, it's in physical, form is a book and
there are things I've experienced, you know, stories
I've lived through and I also think at some point there was
an, it was after skill in action.
Came out. There was a shift for me when I
started to talk about grief more and I would say it was probably
about three years ago. So shortly after school of
action came out and it may have been because I was In so many
spaces, wellness and yoga spaces and Community spaces, and we
were talking about the content and skill and action.
And people felt deep grief, about how they were implicated
in the system of white supremacy, for example, or how
they've been harmed by it. And at one point, I said, we're
doing grief work. I remember saying this in a
workshop like, this is what we're doing.
I also think there's something about the way I hold space and
my facilitation, that invites people into showing up as they
Our. That's what I would like to do.
That's what I strive to do. So I think, you know, there's
for some folks. There's more space to share
emotions that they may not. Otherwise feel like they can
share or to open and be vulnerable and take risks.
I've seen that over and over and a lot of that risk-taking has
been around grief and heartbreak and confusion about heartbreak.
And am I causing work? Great for people.
Write all of that. So I know that happened in a
skill of action, workshop, and then finding Refuge came came
after and the the other link between the two when I wrote
skill in action are satin and wrote and it felt like I've said
this many times a story that was waiting to come out and my
ancestors definitely informed that story.
I'm thinking about the way that they couldn't move freely,
right, and breathe freely. And that feels so Central to
skill in action in my The yoga and Liberation.
And it is so clear to me finding Refuge came from like Channel
Through ancestors. And in fact, they see that the
idea for the work around grief and then the book around around
grief, my own individual story telling of it.
And again the collectives experience and loss and
grieving. We're not making space degree,
but it's also about that and what we lose when we do it.
Actually make space to Tender Hearts.
So, yeah, I have your chart up right now and you are a full
moon, Baby, Leo sun, and Aquarius Moon.
And with the house system that I use, which is a placidus system.
It puts your moon in the eighth house, which is the place of
shared resources, but also shared feelings.
Our feelings become entangled and kind of entwined.
And the eighth house is like a murky place where there's not an
individual where we're sharing, but Aquarius is a sign, you
know, the humanitarian and this kind of expansive sometimes
objective or emotionally detached even space of
observation where we can see patterns, and I'm wondering if
you feel this resonance in yourself of that, Leo Aquarius,
kind of axis of Edible heartfulness and and passion and
then also. Skill and action that can come
through a kind of big picture Detachment, which I wouldn't say
is like non feeling state, right, but you talk a lot in
your book about kind of like moving, moving beyond the
personal and into the transpersonal which I think can
allow for a sense of Detachment and that awareness of the big
picture and just a moment ago. You talked about your skill or
capacity. As a facilitator to hold spaces
where people can be courageous, which feels very much like an
eighth house phenomena. Yeah.
I'm wondering how you, how you feel yourself.
And I think that's like a hard question maybe to ask because
you're inside yourself all of the time, but if you could speak
a little bit to your unfolding, awareness of, you know, being a
Leo person, You resonate with that and then also having an
aquarius Moon. However, you resonate with that.
Yeah, I love when I received your email about my chart and
wanting to read that and have that help us move through the
conversation and deep in the conversation and connection.
So I was aware that a being a full moon baby and I really do
feel like The way that I came into the world, has everything
to do with being able to step back and observe and being able
to be with my heart and lead from my heart.
And when I mean, as in, you know, this from skill and
action, that I came in its two pounds, and 3 ounces, and was
taken away from my mom to a different hospital.
Because there wasn't a premium unit in the hospital was born in
1975 and I, of course, don't know what I I was doing and my
two pound body, but I do know I was in an incubator and people
were picking me up and I was awake.
I know that and that continued this theme of being awake.
After my mother took me home. I was in the hospital for a
month. She took me home.
She said I slept for two months and then I was awake and she
said she would like come into my room.
She'd be crawling on her knees to like get the crib and I just
be standing there looking at her or eyes wide open.
And so I feel like, you know, How I came in and the
overstimulation of like a hospital in a 2-pound body.
Without people, I was connected to biologically or caretakers
around me other than people who worked in the hospital that I do
think that's connected to my ability to observe and sort of
step back and watch. Because I think my nervous
system is configured in that way.
I mean, that was what I was what I was doing.
I think in my Jeep embryonic body, I was watching, I was
probably wondering what was Is going on and I was missing that
connection with my mom. I mean, it's nine days is a long
time to be away from from the person who's just birth to you.
Right. Absolutely world.
So I do think it has to do with that and I never system and the
Leo Aquarius iMac. I'm really glad that I have both
because because I mean, I feel like the Leo part of me is the
people think I'm an extrovert. I'm actually not an extrovert.
People see that, right? And think that and the warmth
and generosity and I'm sure I can be in my ego to and I'm
really glad I can I can step back.
I mean I have times where I say, I'm not attached to this.
Like I'll just say out loud like I'm not attached.
I'm just saying this thing to you and that feels very Aquarian
to me. I'm also partnered with an
aquarius. So I see that mirror who's a Leo
Rising. So I see that mirror back at me
which is such an interesting experience.
Dance with him. And yeah, resonates deeply and I
think it has everything to do with.
I was a social worker for a long time.
I'm doing intuitive healing work.
I'm talking about grief. Not just my own grief, but the
world's great. You know, it's I feel like the I
don't know if it's a balance but I think bills show up in what
I'm created as my work and how I practice and how I relate with
others. So it does what you said about.
It really does connect with my experience and resonate deeply.
Mmm, Yeah. I love that Consciousness that
you have of how you were forming your nervous system and those
first couple days of your life. And when I imagine, you know,
nine days for a newborn before you have any concept of time and
you know, what, what happens in the nervous system there and
then in your chart, you have an aspect pattern that sometimes
gets called a Mystic rectangle or like a magic rectangle.
Which is basically to opposition's that are both
connected to each other through trials and sextiles.
And one of the opposition's is the Sun Moon opposition of the
full moon. And then, you also have somewhat
of a generational aspect and opposition between Uranus at the
last degree of Libra opposing, Jupiter, and Chiron which are
conjunction. Aries, and Aries is the sign of
the self. But I think even before the ego
exists, right? So as a self there has to be an
Impulse to exist, you know, and that kind of fire of life and
determination to survive is very much Ares, energy and Jupiter
and Chiron are together in your chart.
They're both retrograde. And to me, this is a symbol of
first of all, a profound healer and teacher energy that the
symbol of Chiron is often described as As a healing
Journey or a healing crisis, and Jupiter often gets represented
as a as a teacher, and a profound teacher spiritual
teacher, and they're together in this sign of real fortitude
around, survival, and existence opposite to a symbol.
That describes Awakening in a in a sign.
Libra, that is about relationship.
And so thinking about your birth story with the moon in the
eighth house, this kind of near-death experience, a
severing, an isolation and then a patterning and your nervous
system that has allowed you to detach it a certain way.
And observe that, that is also part of a pattern of Awakening
to survival, I think into the patterning of survival.
And then what, that patterning can manifest as in
relationships. Can you can you talk about what
it feels like to be in your process which my assumption as
an astrologer looking at your chart is that you have some kind
of Rapid synthesis process where you might experience something
personally and then sir? Immediately related to the
transpersonal. I see you nodding.
Can you talk about what that feels like in your being to be
in this kind of constant space of personal transpersonal
awareness? Yeah.
This makes me think of friend said you take your, like, you
take things from the spiritual world and bring them into the
material world. It's making me think about that.
Like I'm Liz. Listening.
I'm open to my ancestors and how they need you to guide me or
want to guide me. I feel like I'm spirit and
connected to Spirit and I know I'm in a body on Earth and I'm
here to like, do something very, very clear that I'm both.
And and I don't think I've always been clear about that and
that has really come in the last few years and articulating in
this way of I am, I am a spirit and I can witness and observe
and know that I'm bigger than my body in this moment, and I'm in
a body and things are happening to me.
Doing things to other other people and the planet, right?
And interacting in this way and it does feel like what you said,
where something will happen. And I think about natural
tendency now has to figure out or feel into how it relates to
everything that's happening. You know, that.
And the way that I haven't finding Refuge, or even in stone
action in some ways, like, what's happening globally,
right? What haven't we agreed to?
What do we need to talk about? As a collective from a
Perspective, which is just one perspective.
So I do think it's that processing and maybe that has
everything to do with. I mean how I came into I'm sure.
Like, I think I had to make some quick decisions about whether or
not I was going to be here and they I mean after birth came out
before me I was not coming and then they did an emergency
C-section. I was I was not coming here, you
know, and so I think I did have this moment of deciding I'm
going to be And then, you know, for those 9 days, I'm going to
live like I'm gonna find strength the resilience.
Of course, I again, I don't know what I was doing, but I can
imagine. That is what I had to do in such
a tiny body that was asthmatic and had tubes everywhere.
Right? And was, was not, as I said,
earlier connected physically, to my mom, but I'm sure felt her
because she was quite sick after after I came here.
So, yeah, I think I probably had to learn that skill of
something's happening. I need to like synthesize this
and then figure out what I'm going to do and as an adult or
growing, I think that translated into what's happening around me
and needing to talk about it and wanting to talk about it.
Because as a Healer told me, she said you came in to speed us up,
not in a way that's like white supremacy productivity, but
like, okay, y'all. That's on fire.
We need to do something and I do feel, I think I felt that
urgency for such a long time. I certainly felt it when I was a
child, a young child, this urgency to to move things
forward. So I think that's part of the
process too. Like it's the synthesizing is
not just for me. It really is for us young and
whatever bits and pieces of what I say and write and share and
express energetically with someone, however, that helps
them or supports that or Helps them on their Journey or
awakened, something inside them. Yeah, I felt that quality of
decisiveness in you when I've been in workshop with you and
also in reading your books and it feels like you don't waste
time really, you know, that that you don't allow yourself to get
pulled into kind of like stagnancy of unclarity and you
are very decisive and and when something Comes up in the
context of the group. You have a Clarity that allows
you to fairly easily and and simply associate whatever is
arising to a bigger picture, or give an individual, some kind of
reflection that allows them to do their own Association, which
I really appreciated. And I'm thinking about the end
of the first chapter in finding Refuge Refuge.
You offer a beautiful meditation on just being with the heart and
feeling your heart. And I love the meditation for
its Simplicity and its complexity, right?
Because you're inviting people into a very simple gesture in
some ways. Like here's this organ that is
at the heart of your centrality. And then you're asking yourself
for your readers to tune in with the aspects of this experience,
that are highly complex. And often extremely frightened,
because they are so interrelated.
I'm wondering in your years of practice and teaching and
applying this, maybe this particular meditation or
meditations that are similar to this.
What are some of the things that you notice happening in the room
or in the larger field. When you ask people to tune in
with their hearts? A few things.
I think I've noticed beer. I've noticed not confusion.
And if someone's not used to being asked about their heart,
they're kind of like, what is this question?
This person really wants to know about my heart, which is true.
I do, I want to know and I want people to feel into their hearts
that I want to feel into my and, and allow it to move me in some
way and change me. I've noticed Like an exhale,
right? This like okay.
Finally someone's asking about my heart and you know, for some
people who practiced being with their heart over throughout
time. I think there's more ease when I
ask that question. I've also guided the heart
meditation inviting refuge and some different takes on that
meditation where I've invited people to connect to their
heart. And I've also invited them to
connect to the others around them.
So like their hearts, in this space, feel the heartbeat of the
people in this space. I've also guided people to
connect their heartbeat to their ancestors and beings that came
before them. And the future means deep work.
It's like sounds simple. As you know, as you said to be
like, okay, check in with your heart and it's actually not it's
I think it's profound because You know, I can count the people
in my two hands that have asked me about my heart like, who lead
with, how's your heart? Which I think is such a powerful
way of being with somebody of inviting them into that space of
the heart and exploring that space.
And I mean, I think it connects us in a deeper way.
So I've seen a lot of different rate tears happen for people,
grief comes up in that moment as well for her.
People sometimes symptoms Joy will come in and sometimes I
will guide it as notice. What's present in your heart.
There may be tenderness or Joy or confusion or connection?
Right? We I feel many different things
and I tune into my heart, depending on the moment, the
day, what's happening around me or inside me.
So a lot of different reactions and I think overall gratitude
For the practice, I've experienced that with people
that because they can sense. I really, I really mean it, you
know, really mean what your heart.
I really want to know what's happening there.
I really want us to deepen our connection in that way.
So some of the things I've noticed in space with others
when I've LED this kind of meditation.
Hmm. Have you imagine you have but
have you brought this work into your dismantling racism?
Mm, training. And the spaces where you
facilitate, maybe outside of a more standard yoga or meditation
space. Yes.
I have brought this into this basis, and we talked about the
heart or talk about the heart and also feelings, because part
of what I named in skill and action, and I mean, many people
who do anti-oppression work talk about this, the different ways
to stems of Oppression of cut us off from our intuition.
From our feeling state from noticing, even the feelings are
flowing through and driving our Behavior.
So often I'll connect the heart with how we're feeling and how
we're showing up in those spaces and, you know, really to get to
the heart of it. I bring that in a lot in those
spaces, as well. So people can think about, And
feel into the despair, they might be experiencing about
racism and white supremacy and where they're implicated in that
or how they're colluding with it or how we've all been harmed
harmed by it. And also what we want to do in
response. Like, I think the heart is that,
I mean, you're Leo, like I'm led by the heart.
So I think it's this active place to so that the meditation
and the the practice is like, yes, go inward, but it's also
connected to how we show up. With one another, that's a
central part of it as well. And I think, as people practice
it over time, especially in a dismantling racism.
Workshop were realm, then it will transform how they show up,
how they see themselves, how they see others, how they
operate, how they treat the planet, right?
I think that's my hope, when I bring it into those spaces and
it meant, it's there, you know, I've noticed sometimes there's
more resistance in this. Space has been if I'm
anti-traditional, whatever, that might mean yoga space where we
are practicing and often. People are, are in a practice of
meditation. I'm offering a different kind of
meditation or one that resonates and relates to what they already
are practicing in a room of, you know, board of directors or a
foundation. If I'm asking about the heart,
which I do, that's there's like a transition.
People are not asking me to. They are expecting me to lead.
Mindfulness practice even though I same point two and they're
certainly not not thinking, I'm going to ask about the heart
when they're making decisions about money and staff and but I
think we need to start with the heart.
Yeah, right. Like I mean, this is what I
believe and how I tried to try to do my work in the world.
Yeah. Absolutely.
I was earlier trying to write up post for social media for aspect
that's happening today, which is Mars opposite.
Neptune. And one of the descriptions for
that aspect, is a feeling of overwhelm with the immense
amount of grief, and overwhelmingness in the world
and kind of inability to act, or to know which way to act and
what to do. And because it feels like I
can't do anything. And no matter what I do.
It's not going to be enough or it won't be helpful.
And when you were talking I was thinking about my own Journey.
Trying to Grapple with the immensity of of Oppression and
the many systems that whole depression and also with the
lived experience of being a Leo rising and having Aquarius on my
descendant, you know where I'm moving out into the world and I
feel like I am really in a space of learning, what it is to just
keep coming back to my heart, especially when it is.
So Attempting to move up into my mind to try and figure out how
to do something better or figure out.
What's wrong or strategize about what will be effective.
And and that shift from a doing space into a being space.
Feels very counterintuitive often in times of urgency.
And I think right now there's there's so much urgency.
There's so much tragedy. Yeah.
When you're in these spaces, you know, in Board rooms or even in
yoga classes or even in your own body and with yourself, can you
speak to what you notice in the transition and maybe even some
some tools around facilitating the transition from a more
mental or doing space into a kind of more heartful, or being
space? What do you feel as an energetic
shift? Would you notice in the A room
or in the field of the of the people that you're gathering
with or in your own self, and I know you've got now, two books
full of meditations and different practices to come into
the heart, but it may be kind of just like, simple gestural, kind
of way. How do you help yourself?
Keep coming back into your heart, or how do you help the
people? You're with Q, coming to their
hearts? well, I think for me it's It's,
it's difficult. To be away from the heart.
Like I'm not I'm sure there are times when I'm not connected to
it, deeply. I mean, I'm sure of it and I
feel so present to it. But that has not always been
true. I mean, that is a practice.
I think that's come through practice and I also a long time
ago. I think this is from being a
social worker was a social worker for like 20 years that
early on. I realized I can't take care of
all of the things. I kind of was like, you know, if
I can be aware of as much as I can.
I mean, there are things. I don't know.
I can be aware and I can feel into it and I can sense into it
and there's a limit to what I can do.
I mean, I think, I learned that in the first year, it may be
before that. My mom was a special education
teacher. So, I actually think I learned
it from my mother Clara watching her, do what she could do for
the students. The people she worked with and
there was there were things, she had to let go up because there's
only so much she could do and I actually really appreciate that
lesson. I'm not saying we're we're
limited and Part of my practice is prioritizing my own care so I
can continue to show up and do what I can do.
And so if I'm focused on doing everything, I just won't be able
to to do that. So that kind of like managing
expectations. I think helps my heart.
Although I feel my heart broken all the time and and
overwhelmed. I think it.
In some ways, sort of, balances out the desire to like, what do
we need to do about this? I'm like, I don't know what we
can do about this, right? Or this is the one thing I can
do. I think that's been really
helpful for me. And then in groups, I've noticed
You know, when I'm leading a meditation about the heart or
really any meditation, especially in a space where
people are not necessarily used to the practices I offer in
skill in action, or finding Refuge, or the ones that just
come through. That are channeled.
I'll say this is what I'm going to do.
I mean, I think I'll tell them this is, this is what I'm going
to offer and it may feel completely uncomfortable and
confusing and I'm going to invite you to breathe, right?
I start there. And then about a minute or two
in it sort of depends on the group and, and how long I'm
leaving the practice. But I'll say something about,
you might notice resistance showing up in your body or as
ask about the heart and your heart that maybe constriction
that you're feeling and breathe into that, breathe into that and
notice what what's present and what happens.
And what I notice shift because I'm like, told people this is
this is what I'm Why not offer and you know, people are
building. I think about distress
tolerance, like people are building that, that sort of
skill of sitting with themselves and, and their breath and the
heart. I feel like there's more
Stillness in the space and quietness.
Even if it's just for a moment and I think that's powerful
because the world is noisy. Like in all the ways.
It feels noisy energetically. It feels noisy.
It's just Noisy, there are sounds but and there's
dissonance, like it's just, there's a lot.
And so, I think that quiet Nest is a gift even if people, and
that moment to be with the heart as a gift, even if people don't
recognize it at the time because later people come back to me and
said something about the meditation, right?
Or if I'm working with an organization over time.
If for some reason I go in and don't start with a meditation,
People will ask me about that, you know, and so I think if I'm
able to work with people over time, they know it's part of the
practice. And I also, I also share
something about preparing for our gathering or what we're
about to do. So I think centering and coming
to the heart as a way, we prepare for how we want to come
into community and be with one another even if we're making
budget to budgetary, decisions about a non-profit or something,
right, but let's prepare and transition into the space.
So we can be present and what it is and be more intentional about
our work. Yeah.
In the part in your book where you you share a story about
being in a predominantly white, town, and Pennsylvania, and
getting pulled over for driving while black.
And and then you kind of go through the play-by-play of your
experience and tracking your own Sensations and noticing your
intuition versus your fear. And like you say that like I've
spent a lot of time training to listen to my intuition and you
can parse it out. I'm wondering in your embodied
experience in high stakes, high stress situations where there is
a potential that the outcome might not be good.
What does it feel like to be in your practice?
And how do you discern like, what is the difference between
In in those kinds of situations being in a space where you are
connecting with your heart, and your intuition and your practice
as opposed to not. Yeah, I mean, I think I
appreciate this. This question.
There was and that people describe this, when they're in a
crisis. I was watching what was
happening and it was happening to me.
Right? As it was happening.
I was witnessing it and I was also thinking quickly and try to
make decisions. So the, you know, you know this
from reading it, I called the person I knew that have the
phone who was in him till as well.
I called my partner and he stayed on the phone and I said,
just listen, like this is what's happening.
I want you to know where I am. He didn't even know where I
mean, who I was. In North Carolina, but he didn't
know where I was. I so I was like, In a way that,
I mean, that was my practice, although that pulls me out of
the heart. It's like I have to make a
decision right now to try to keep myself as safe as I can,
which just became the practice. And I also knew that I needed to
be calm. I'm not saying I didn't like
that. I wanted to say something to the
officer, like the guy who stopped me for being black
right? There was no traffic violation
of any sort that happened and I just knew I can't move too
quickly. I can't challenge this person.
I didn't feel like I could do that.
I thought that would be unsafe and I was in a place where I
wasn't around people. That knew me.
I mean, you know, two people knew I was there.
So I also think context matters too, and I've been deeply
conditioned and socialized to be still to be clear to be polite
and those situations not just by my mother socializing.
Me, but also, by culture and also, by all the brown and black
books, we've lost because of police brutality and the people
who've lost for being who they are for, just being who they
are. What's interesting about that
is, there was a video of it, which I didn't watch.
But Emily, the person who's in this story, and this chapter,
and finding Refuge, who's a white bodied female, identified
person who came is the person that called, she watched the
video and she called me and said you were so still, and so calm.
And so like stoic, I think, in a way and I wasn't surprised she
And that because I know I can I can do that.
Like, there's a crisis happening right now and I'm going to do
what I need to do to survive right now that I have control
over that, but it was interesting to hear her
reflection like her witnessing me in that process after I'd
witnessed myself in the process but not through a video.
Right? And she was like, you were
answering the officers questions and you were not, not reacting.
And she was meanwhile, she was angry at the officer and And
questioning and doing all these things at him, feel like I could
do. And so, I know my practice of
breathing, right? And being with the heart and
also strategizing both were happening, and I was totally
calling on my ancestors as well to be, like, keep me say, you
know, it was that kept saying that to myself and I there was a
part in that experience where the officer wanted me to open
the glove compartment to was in a rental car, too.
Get the registration or something out of it and I
started to move and then I stopped and said you do it like
there wasn't there was a little challenge of like I'm not doing
this. I mean, I did set a boundary
which I think was part of the practice to and came from
breathing and being strategic and and being with the heart and
being embodied like, actually know if you want to look in the
glove compartment, you can, but I'm not.
And I'm, I'm not surprised I did that.
It's interesting to me that I did that because I wasn't
thinking, I was just acting. Ting.
And I know practice. Grounded me.
If I didn't like have a practice, I I don't know.
What would have happened. We my practice, kept me still
enough. To move through that situation
and to stay ground. I'm not going to say and still
be here because anything could have happened, many things
happen. Every day all the time.
My practice helped me. And after we left, I like burst
into tears. So, my nervous system was
completely over. Stimulated was in crisis.
My Reptilian Brain was an opera, you know, like all what was
happening, but none of that came out in the interaction with the
officer. Yeah.
It came out right after. I could not calm myself down and
then I went back to the breath and cried a lot, and went to the
water and did all of these things to reground myself.
Mmm. Yeah, when I was reading that
section in your book. I was thinking to myself, how
many tools of mindfulness have to be learned intrinsically, by
folks who are living at the margins of society who are
facing danger and threat constantly, that kind of just
what you were saying like this learned way of, Coming into
calmness of being still love, you know, tracking in order to
respond, not react because that could be the difference of, you
know, one outcome versus another.
And, and then after that, you know, that experience.
You continue to talk about the several weeks following and kind
of feeling the somatic and psychosomatic fall out of that
experience manifesting as illness and fatigue and
Depression and recognizing and in your experience.
Again, this piece of collective grief and Trauma that your
trauma in your body was also part of a larger trauma of black
and brown bodies in the world. And so as a white body of person
reading that, you know, I'm struck with the Myriad of
experiences. I've had in meditation and yoga
spaces where we do meditations to connect with our hearts,
right? And there's this kind of like
opening and sometimes a very Blissful kind of feeling that
that can get accessed and as a person who's really interested
in social justice and someone who's like gone to find it and
then finding teachers such as yourself.
For me, it feels like, oh, the real heart work is accessing.
What is keeping us from being in our hearts, which, which isn't
that state of bliss and and connectivity like that.
That's the inherent State and what's keeping us from that are
as centuries deep momentum. And so I'm wondering if you
would be willing to speak to the complexity in the layers that
that you're holding all the time as a facilitator and mixed
spaces. You obviously hold a fair amount
of class or ability privilege in your body as well.
And so I know that you're holding space for many spectrums
and layers of since when you invite people to tune in with
their bodies or with their hearts are with grief.
What do you think is possible, you know, in in mixed spaces or
even in Affinity groups, you know, when they're such
incredible distance between experiences.
What do you hope for? What do you, what do you think
can emerge? Now, I'm glad that we're talking
about this because what, I've noticed over the last year,
maybe a little over a year and Make spaces on Zoom, because I
have not been in physical space with people, make spaces with
many identities. And because a lot of my work is
centered around, anti-racism practice.
Usually I'll lead with race. So often these spaces are still
in action Workshop or or finding Refuge.
Or just a facilitation or dismantling racism training or
space and so there are mixed racially.
And what I've noticed is that black indigenous and people of
color are more and more exhausted and white body.
People are in these spaces are feeling the urgency in a
different way. Are feeling motivated are
feeling, curious are being in large part open to what is being
offered. And those two things don't
really go go well together, you know, like this exhaustion and
fatigue and racial trauma met with openness.
And what do I do? And and I don't mean that way
buddy, people are questioning by black people and these bases but
like Matt with this like yes, I need to do something now.
It's really intense and it's become more intense.
I don't know if other people that will space are noticing
this, but it's definitely more intense than I've ever felt.
And maybe some of it's because we're not in physical space with
each other. I don't know if that.
I mean, I think it would change in some ways because
relationally, and with our nervous systems and co co
regulating like something would shift + space physical space
together. And I still think this theme
would be present. Of exhaustion colliding with
curiosity and urgency and openness.
And it's so I've named that I've just started to name that in
makes faces. And at the beginning, I've named
it in in a way, for a long time about the lived experience that
people are having versus learning about something but not
actually living on the receiving end.
For example of racism. I'm experiencing racism all the
time. And a white supremacy culture
and, and white body. People are living in a white
supremacy culture, and also benefiting from a white
supremacy culture and learning how to dismantle it.
Those white bodied folks who are interested in that, right, but
are still white bodied and benefit from that whiteness and
a way that people do not so talked about that for a long
time and have started to just more explicitly named this
exhaustion and how people may be showing up and what I met with.
Openness and urgency and awareness of being implicated in
a system of white supremacy. For example, white baby, people
being able to name that what I what I hope emerges from these.
These spaces is in response to that tool of lived and learned
and the reality of what may be playing out in this space, the
Dynamics that are present in the space that we're not having the
same experience. What I what I hope is that we
can we can meet each other somewhere.
And that because what I fear, and what I have witnessed is a,
many people are talking about this and have been for a long
time. But I fear, is that I've seen by
POC. People want to replicate the
system. The strategies white supremacy
employees in their spaces, like to silence, white people, to
shut them down. To tell them that they're not
worthy or They're saying is it and and I get it in the sense of
understand what's happening cultural?
I get it and I also don't think that's the way we're going to
heal. I just that's like an impasse.
We can't meet each other. There.
We do. What do we do?
And so I what I would like is for us to meet each other and
not as so many people have named and written about not use these
same tools of these systems of Oppression and expect Liberation
to happen because it won't. So how can the white body person
meet my exhaustion and give me space to rest for give me space
to be in that or give me space to mourn and how can I actually
show up and meet them in their, in their space of wanting, to do
something about dismantling racism, which is what I've asked
my buddy people to do, you know, so even with that awareness that
by popular, like you need to dismantle this system, there's
they are not doing it fast enough and I have no time for
your learning and I mean, I totally get it.
I'm not even there's no judgment about this.
It's just like, yes, and how do we meet each other and our
Humanity? Because I think that's the
pathway forward. Not that we all have to show up
in the same way and do the same work, because I also am an
affinity spaces, as well. I also see that a similar
Dynamic though, because of the racial hierarchy because of
Oppression Olympics, all of that, where I've seen deep
Connection in these spaces and have Also seemed seeing
disconnection because of folks feeling like, well, your
oppression is not as bad as mine or people who are higher up in
the racial hierarchy. Not not necessarily feeling like
they have a space. So that the shrink themselves.
I mean, it's complex like so much to hold and respond to, and
I'm learning all of the time. And my practice has been to name
here, the things going on. I don't know what to do about
them, or I do. But, you know, sometimes I don't
and I'm transparent about it. Much just be with what's alive
in the space. Because what's alive in these
spaces is alive everywhere. It's like, it's just a
representation of what's going on everywhere.
And if we can figure out some way to to be with each other in
this, I think we have some some chance at shifting.
What's going on outside of the zoom room Simon with people,
right? That we can actually transform
beyond the spaces that that I hold.
So as a long answer that there's a there's a lot in there.
Yeah. No, I really appreciate.
A tit. I appreciate your answer so
much. It's making me think about
working with movement re-patterning and people's
bodies. And which is a practice I've had
for a long time and one of the kind of like foundational pieces
that I've come back to in that practice for myself, is that you
move towards the dominant pattern first.
And before you try and change someone and make them do
something different. Even if it's going to be way
better and you, Feel better for them.
You have to move into the dominant pattern so that they
can really feel the impact of that pattern.
And then from an internal space start to unwind it and if you
don't do that and you try and give them a counter-movement,
even if their muscles learn it, their physiology will never
integrate it as a kind of reflex and, and more automatic way of
being. And so, when you're talking
about that, The feeling that I have is a feeling that I've had
a lot, which is like a yearning to have unlimited time and space
for everyone to just be and to allow all these feelings to
happen and to just be with them, right?
And not do something with them, but to be able to observe them
together and actually feel what they are as an embodied state.
Obviously we're inside of them in the in the structural space
or the cultural body all the time.
What do you think about that? Like it almost feels like a
little bit dangerous, saying it, in my white body to say, like,
it might, we might need to move more into the pattern, to
actually feel it. And I certainly don't, don't
want that as a cultural experience.
But I also feel like that's what's happening in some ways
that politics are becoming more extreme.
That things are becoming more, and more Stark, and that part of
the urgency that a lot of white folks are starting to feel as
Because they're starting to feel right, right?
That's right. Yeah, I think it's it, what you
named resonates about that the more dominant pattern being
first. I so people can feel into that
because superiority, you know, we talked about this earlier is
really limited our as cut us off from feelings, right?
And being in bodied and remembering where body.
So, and I can add can also I can see how I don't know if it would
be dangerous, but feels like a strong word.
I'm not actually sure because I think we're acting these things
out all the time. Anyway, so I think it would be
interesting though to name that as a part of what we might
experience is if we're talking about white body to folks.
And I've had people like biting people being in this practice of
understanding how white supremacy lives inside them
feeling, it noticing the patterns of It's a messy and
maybe that happens and why the family group?
I don't know. And I think for by POC folks for
us thinking about the internalized racial, oppression
and conditioning around that and socialization because that
there's some healing that needs to happen and some undoing and
some repair that needs to happen with that as well.
It's sort of like Affinity spaces for internalised white
supremacy and moving into that dominant pattern at
understanding and feel it and feel the grief.
Associated with that, and the history of trauma, that sled
white body people to operate in this, white supremacy system, to
create it and, and bipod people with internalized racial
oppression or inferiority. I think that would be
interesting. And then coming together to talk
about it or be, or breathe together.
I'm not sure brainstorming. It makes sense.
And what we know is that when I mean this is like implicit bias
people default when there's a crisis when there's pressure
when there's a deadline like that is where people are going
to go to their internalized, their patterns that are related
to internalized superiority based on their Identity or to
their prejudices, or to the conditioning.
They've received from dominant culture, about what it means to
be them and who other people are, right, and whatever, what
it takes to survive, right? That to I mean, that is such so
core to this. Yeah, yeah why we're here
people's beliefs around what it has to survive or what they've
had to do to survive. Its there's a note, there is
both I think. Yeah.
So yeah, I think it's is really deep to think about that.
And it makes sense to me, that people would practice that
before being able to learn a new pattern and way of being.
Yeah. Well, I mean, I do see I feel
like it is this hard work, you know, of If we're not going to
do spiritual bypassing, right? Like hard work to just float
over things. There is so much that needs to
be felt in order to really get into into the heart and into the
connection. And, and again, I mean, I so
love and respect how you build Bridges between the personal and
the transpersonal because I feel like your work allows enough
spaciousness for folks to feel the ways that they are
implicated. And Bodying these patterns
without needing to take, you know, to feel that it's their
fault, you know, which I think or their responsibility to fix,
you know, that it's like, we're all kind of born into it.
It's nobody's fault and it's everybody's responsibility,
right? And, and in your books, you
illustrate such profound somatic examples of the personal and the
transpersonal. One of which I've heard you
speak to a number of times, which is just that oppression
takes the breath away. And this this chorus of response
to stay in police violence, and also to the effects of
environmental and economic Injustice, that black and brown
bodies, literally have less access to or capacity often for
a full breath. And I'm wondering if you would
be, if you would be willing to read this part.
Of your book where you talk about your mother's spinal
condition, the disregard of my concerns and my mother's needs
occurred because of what white supremacy and oppressions.
Drip away from us, our ability to connect to ourselves and
recognize our own humanity and Divinity, the Divinity that each
one of us in bodies. This is a Divinity, we embody,
even as we are encouraged to lose our connection with other
sentient beings. When one loses connection, with
one cell, it is difficult to see the humanity in others.
It is a challenge to digest and process.
The grief that arises from being severed from our Collective and
Nate Divinity, humanity and wholeness.
It becomes impossible to interrupt patterns of violence
loss dominance and harm behaviors that led my mother
being uncared-for led to my mother being uncared.
For I sat in the space of watching my familial route.
My mother faced death as my country played a game of Risk
with Humanity itself through oppressive policies and
practices horrific violence, and cultural genocide.
The trauma of watching my mother's body and the Of
medicine failed. Her coupled with singer spot
spinning World at War the uninterrupted pattern of black
and brown bodies and souls murdered women being stripped of
the power to have control over their bodies and a President Who
seems to have a death wish for us all.
Well, those of us who aren't sis, white straight, and male
citizens, overwhelmed, my system, the Heartbreak from the
trauma of watching a body with an inflamed route.
While living in a country with an infection at its root.
Root at the base of how we came to be challenged.
My capacity to remain open-hearted and induced a
Conjuring of the deepest expression of my spiritual
practice this far. Thank you.
Thanks, for asking me to read it.
I went back to that this morning because I woke up and
immediately read the news which is something that I don't always
allow myself to do in the morning and today I did and so
we're recording on September 2nd the last several weeks.
It's felt like it just keeps being more on top of more.
There's Afghanistan fires floods, pandemic variance in the
news. This morning was an article on A
study on the racial wealth Gap in the u.s.
Saying that black children have one sent to every dollar that a
white child will have in the US. And then yesterday in Texas.
They passed several pieces of legislation and one day one of
which made it nearly impossible for women to access abortion and
threatens anyone who might assist them with massive
Financial penalties and no legal recourse, and then at the same
time voting rights restrictions, Actions were passed and Texas
authorized individuals to carry guns without licenses or
background checks, or firearms training.
So, I came back to this paragraph today because I was
feeling in my body, a kind of intense shutdown and the
overwhelm of grief and panic and rage.
And this feeling this knowing that it's going to continue to
get worse before it gets better. And that as these oppressive
systems are in their death throes that they're, you know,
they're grasping for life that are becoming even more extreme.
And at the same time. I know that there are new
systems you merging and and coming up in spaces where we are
connecting with one another and more intimate.
And and even Yeah, I want to say underground.
But you know, out of the public sphere new systems are emerging.
And I'm wondering if you can speak from your lens as an
intuitive and you know, highly spiritual and heart centered
person and a Healer as well as your lens as an activist to what
you feel as the spiritual imperative of this time.
Yeah, the big question. So there are a couple of
thoughts that I have and, and one is it's not a direct answer
to your question, but I will answer what came to mind.
First is the bhagavad-gita, which, you know, is such an
important text II, go to it all the time, and I think it's
Chapter 6, but I'm not sure. But, in that chapter Krishna,
who's guiding Arjuna the warrior.
Krishna's. God basically talks about a
Dharma. So he talks about Dharma
throughout to Arch and itís, a like Duty.
That's what is translated to in the bhagavad-gita.
Although it means different things in different contexts.
And then he talks about a Dharma and Krishna says like, When too
much a Dharma builds up, which is like, all the things you just
named that I will come and clear way, what needs to be shed.
And then more a Dharma will build up and I keep going back
to it because it struck me. It resonated.
I haven't, I didn't like describe what I believed in that
way prior to reading it, but it just landed when I, when I read
And again, like and and I know people may have different
beliefs here. But in a way, I think it sort of
helped me feel more settled about what's going on, even
though everything's unsettled. And it helped me make meaning of
what's happening. And I think you're right that
the systems that are in their death roads right now, or I'm
trying to cling on more tightly like that is that is what we
understand me happens. Like that's the cycle and what
you said about, you know, new systems emerging to.
So it's the Death Rows are happening and people are doing
really deep work in response to all of this suffering.
And Has, we don't want to continue to suffer and we don't
want to continue to create suffering for others.
So. I think.
Part of what we can do right now.
In this does feel like this in my mind spiritual imperative.
What we can remember is something that I said earlier
about remembering, I'm spirit and I'm in a Bobby, but I'm also
bigger than my body. This helps me all the time,
continue to show up and do the work that I can do and need to
do in the world. That my experience is much
bigger than this moment. And all of the news that you
read this morning and it is the news that you read this, where
you know, it's like It's that and it's and it's there's
something else going on because when I, when I forget, I'm
Spirit or that there's something else bigger than me and these
new systems are emerging and that we were, like, Geniuses.
We can create something different.
Right? We're brilliant.
We can we can create something different when I forget that.
I'm in Despair and I'm constricted in a way versus like
actually I'm having a much more expansive experience in
something else. This is possible.
But the way I do that, is by recognizing I'm Spirit.
Someone else may do that by recognizing their bigger than
their bodies, but may not necessarily see themselves as
connected to Spirit. I think things are Urgent.
I think things have been urgent. I think we're in dire times.
Right? As I always say people are
dying. The planet is dying because of
people. And what we do, this feels true
to me, and and I don't want to be swallowed by this.
Baroness of the suffering. I want to be able to be with it.
And also remember, what is possible and my part in creating
what is possible? What could be different?
So that may have been around about answer, but that's what
came came through that remembering because when we
forget, that's what dominant culture wants us to do.
Anyways, forget our genius Brilliance, our ability to
create something different, even as these systems are working on
us. Us and working with us and
harming us. So that's that's what I say
about that. Mmm.
When you are talking, I was imagining mountains and how the
mountain that we can see, you know, on the land might be
massive, but the bulk of it is underground and we can't even
see it. And that mountains are forming
and eroding all the time. Very, very slowly over time.
And when you said that, What dominant culture wants us to do?
It wants us to forget our capacity, to remember that we're
much bigger than our individual selves, and we're part of a
larger momentum. I love your reminder because it
feels like a lot of the urgency that comes in with dominant
culture, is the urgency of the individual and a lot of the
forgetting is that Not only are we in our spiritual selves, much
bigger than our bodies, but we in our personalities and our
person, this are so much bigger than the self.
Yeah. And capitalism wants us to think
about ourselves as to self, you know, like, you know, this right
and to forget that. So I mean, all this systems with
that's what came to mind when you were naming that buy things
to make yourself feel better, right?
It's just about the physical body.
It is just about you know, the self and and that's it's not
true. And we're so much bigger.
Yeah, and what would happen if we lived into that and
remembered? Yeah.
Okay, so last piece with your astrology, you also have another
major aspect pattern in your chart.
That's called a grand Trine. You have a grand water Trine and
a grand Trine is when all three signs of the same element are
linked with placements. And so your cancer Rising person
you have Saturn in cancer in the first house.
In in it's like most exalted expression.
Saturn is like a mountain, like it grows slowly over time.
It applies, labor and force with repetition.
And in that repetition something gets built slowly over time.
And Saturn is considered to be afflicted in cancer because it,
you know, cancer is the sign that Wants bonding and
togetherness, and Saturn can also be isolation and
restriction. But you, you have Saturn in the
first house in cancer. And one thing that that kind of
makes me think about, is some of what we talked about in your
birth story, you know, and in the ways that you've had to
create Stability in your own being, that is a self-sustaining
system ability because you you weren't.
I mean, obviously, you were in relationship with the doctors
and the nurses at the ICU, but you weren't in relationship to
your who had been your previous source and connection to life.
But then I'm also thinking of the aspect of Saturn that
represents labor and cancer as a sign that represents emotion.
And you as a person who very much in your person has an
identity, does a huge amount of emotional labor and literally is
laboring for bonding and recognition of shared connection
and and shared home. Your Saturn is trying with your
North Node in Scorpio. And the North Node, and Scorpio
suggest that in this lifetime, you're coming to do
transformational work. Like you're coming in as a
midwife of some kind of transformative process and you
spoke to this earlier in terms of like a decision that you
need. And I'm thinking about the the
decisiveness that you had on your own being to come into this
body and into this life at this time.
And then to follow this, Thread of ancestral, resonance in your
own Spirit and the work that you're doing.
And then these two points form, a trying to the very top of your
chart to the heaven of your chart, which is a symbol of
like, if you're a seed, the top of the chart is the light,
that's pulling your growth upwards and towards it.
And the highest object in your chart is actually the lunar
apogee Lilith. And one of the ways that I think
a lot of people are kind. Working with Lilith right now.
Is that as a symbol of kind of the I don't know if it was the
original but a very foundational, very pivotal
separation. And this is the separation
between the masculine and feminine between life and death.
Also the separation between black and white as like Notions
of, you know, Concepts that are far beyond the actual colors,
but Lilith is represented as kind of the Oil, demonized,
feminine, and a dark feminine and her symbol over the span of
thousands of years, is gone through, a transformation of a
symbol that at one point represented, the continuity of
Life, the tree of life and then became a symbol of the dangers
of like why, you know, wild Untamed women who wouldn't
listen to men or something like that.
And, and now a lot of Challengers myself included in
this group are reclaiming this symbol and and thinking a lot
about this, you know, Lilith as a symbol that can represent
embodied eroticism that can represent bodily sovereignty and
self ownership and that can also I think represent the lived
experience and or the desire to community in conversation with
folks who've had lived experiences of marginalization
and Depression and to do the work of redress, and, and
healing to whatever extent, helias possible and
transformation within those stories.
And so it's not a surprise to me to see this figure at the top of
your chart in Pisces, which is a sign that is boundless, that is
constantly emerging. That is the everythingness and
and the place where everything comes together.
And right now in transit the planet, Neptune is kind of
hovering over this space in your chart.
And I've seen this with clients who are on a spiritual path and
and often who are embodying spiritual presence as leaders in
the world because the the midheaven is, is also the place
of Public Presentation and where you really come into the roles
that you hold as a public figure.
ER and so, when interpretation for this, you know, it's just
that these influences in the ways that they are combining are
lifting you into a place of prominence and that Spirit now
is kind of holding your your body along and it's going okay?
Like you have to hold this role now and you can't argue with it.
You can't resist it. This is the role that is being
given to you and you're doing it so gracefully.
And one of the ways that I see you're doing, Is through really
beautiful collaboration and your project was Finding Refuge is so
much more than a book. It's a podcast you have over 20
episodes now. And a few years ago, you produce
the summit, which, which I think was the beginning research of
this grief work. So, I'm wondering Michelle what
it has been like to step into this role of spiritual
leadership for you and to hold this space in communal.
No leadership, you've talked to so many people about grief and
spirit. What have you learned in this
process? Like, has anything surprised
you? Are you, what are you thinking
about? Now, in terms of how you feel
your work evolving or where it's taking next?
Thank you for sharing that with me.
I only knew a little bit about my chart, and to thank you for
sharing that. You and and doing that labor of
reading, my chart and preparation for this.
Thank you. I appreciate you.
You know, when I lived in Portland, I love their 20 second
half of 2017, first half of 2018, and it was a really
challenging time and year. And I was getting divorced.
I moved across the country. I started a new job.
Although, like on this stress test.
I have marked, many of the things that, you know, push
people over the edge or or somewhere.
And then I lost people, my father, and my grandmother
transitions. And that year and I feel like
that was, although I think I've been on this journey for ever
since I came in. I think that year was the skill
of action came out, it was Looking back.
I understand. It was a year that was preparing
me to be where I am now and I'll probably say that about this
year later. This year has not been
personally traumatic, for me, other than feeling the world and
the heaviness. The world's heaviness that I
feel that I've been pretty lucky and have privileged, like, I'm
in my head and I've been able to move my work.
So I recognized that, but I do know I'm in this constant state
of Being prepared for what's next and Portland really showed
me that and it also reminded me. I'm held in some way and I say
this because I trust where I'm being led.
And I've learned to listen to the signs to the ancestors, to
the get a lot of science from the natural world or dreams.
My grandmother came to me in a dream, the other night and gave
me some messages. So I'm listening and I feel like
I'm not resisting. I'm like, okay, I need to move
to Portland. Okay, I need to move back.
All right, I need to listen to this.
This work around grief, come through and, and not need in the
I said, that's not what I mean. But like okay, this is the next
thing and I'm really glad I'm listening because it it makes
this process easier. There's more ease because
there's trust but that I didn't always listen, right?
Like I'm I was hard-headed for a long time and I probably still
in in some ways, but I'm like, also, in this receptive, Place
lead me where you want me. And and I will go and where I've
been LED has felt deeply aligned.
And I feel like I'm in integrity and doing what I'm most meant to
do. And with that, I'm open to
what's next. I mean, if certainly have things
scheduled for a long time was still in action and have things
happening with finding refuge and writing another book right
now as well. And I'm also wanting to leave
some space of events. I'm taking three months off in
2020. Which I'm so this is like never
happen. I mean since like school like
when we had summer break or something, but I'm a card that
I'm committed to it. I'm doing it and I think that
will give me more information. It will allow me to rest and
give me more information about where to go and do some deeper
spiritual work and frankly like we're cover because I am holding
a lot. I mean we all are and I'm like
in the work of holding people. So it's and their emotions and
their stuff. Tough and it's a lot.
So I'm I'm excited because that will illuminate.
What is next? And what is needed?
And that was just for seizing. It was so cute.
People are wondering, what's happening.
It's really cute. Oh my goodness affirming.
Yes, three months a flow that will, that would be helpful.
So, so yeah, I feel I don't feel shy.
I don't feel shy about it and I don't want to shrink myself.
I think my Edge like growing Edge is, is receiving it.
When people say you're a spiritual teacher or you or you,
whatever, they're telling me. I'm doing or how they've been
deeply affected. That is my, my growing Edge.
Because I want to be humble, like, big time.
I want to be humble. And there, I can still be humble
and receive, but I know it's a thing for me.
It's a, it's a practice to listen to people when they're
telling me things about what came through me and how it
affected them. Because I'm so clear.
It's not about me, but it is me creating things right?
That inspire people. So that's, that's my Edge with
this, like, moving into this space and, and place.
Of being a spiritual teacher intuitive, or healer.
What we have different words to describe.
This, right? Is really receiving it and it's
reflected back to me. I love that.
Thank you so much for sharing that I feel like that's really
important. What you said?
And yeah, the vision that I nurture for myself, as like a
possible future, is this vision of, you know, galaxies and
constellations where there are lots of stars.
And I think, I think that this is part of what the Leo Aquarius
axis is also Illuminating is, is that each one of us has a lot of
Brilliance. And when we Actually can Center
that Brilliance and give it generously and receive feedback.
Whether that's gratitude and praise and celebration or
whether that's like, hey just didn't work for me.
Or did you think about this? You know, that that are
brilliant than can become even more vibrant, but that the
Universe isn't just one star, right?
It's like billions and then there are all kinds of
Oscillations and relationships between us that support,
everybody's orbit and place in space.
I love that. Yeah, that's beautiful.
Well, before we end I would love to first of all, just know if
there are any ways that listeners can connect with you
or that you'd like to invite people to connect with you in
the in the near future. Yeah, so my website is Michelle,
see Johnson.com and it's the best place to see what's going
on and connect. If you want to practice with me
or being Community with me. I have a lot of different
offerings there and I also offer intuitive readings in an
intuitive healing sessions in akashic readings.
So there's information there. I'm really I love I'm offering
akashic readings and being in that space, like, one of my new
favorite things to do and I got a lot of information from it
from opening in that way. So there are a lot of different
ways to connect that you can, you can find through the
website. And then I'm on social media
skill in action where a lot of my different events are, but
also my own things for my life and things I want to share and
things I'm feeling, and what's going on with me for the day.
Say that kind of thing and through the website, people can
email me as well if they want to connect that way, so. there are
lots of lots of ways and workshops and Community.
Gatherings, and I want to offer more grief circles.
I'm talking with a colleague right now about about doing
that. So people can stay tuned about
that. Great.
Well, I'll list all of those sites and access to your books
and Instagram and social media Handles in the show notes, and
I'm wondering if you would be willing to help us close this
space. By Leading me and and you and
then any of the listeners in the future time and space into a
mindfulness practice. Yes, I would love to and I think
I'm going to lead the one about the heart or something about the
heart given how much we talked about it.
So I will invite people to find a way to be and you can decide
if you want to be seated or On your back or side or belly or
however you want to be and I invite you to move into a
posture. And a posture that would feel
good and your body right now where you can feel good in your
body. If that's possible.
And you can have your eyes closed or open for this practice
and your hands can rest wherever feels comfortable.
And I invite you to bring your awareness and attention to the
breath. Then began to feel your inhales
and exhale. And as you come into the body
and feel the breath, your inhales and exhales, you might
begin to deepen your breath. This experience of breathing.
The body is breathing. And you might even notice.
The shape change in your body. As you inhale and exhale.
And notice the shape the body. Mix as you find the space
between your inhale and exhale. Exhale and next in breath.
And now, as you breathe here. My body.
I invite you to bring your awareness to your heart space.
This might mean bringing your attention.
To the heart, turning your attention toward the heart, or
it might mean placing a hand on your heart.
We're both hands on your heart, you decide.
Take a moment here to bring me then.
Since the heart, touch Into the Heart.
As an organ. Sounds of space.
Feel the hearts. Energy & beat.
You might even feel the space around your heart.
And notice what is present tier as you connect?
With your heart. Perhaps to Greta motions.
Are present here or Sensations? Come into the heart space.
If you would like to work with the Mantra statement that's
offered and finding Refuge. With this meditation, it is.
I acknowledge my heart. I acknowledge my heartbeat.
I feel my heart. I feel my heartbeat.
The knowledge and you have a heart and your heart is beating
and feeling into the heart and feeling the heartbeat.
You can repeat this to yourself if you like.
I acknowledge my heart dying knowledge, my heartbeat.
I feel my heart. I feel my heartbeat.
Then you can stay here with your heart.
There's long as you. like, and when you feel ready, too.
Out of the meditation. I invite you to stay with the
heart. To come back and cheer space.
Perhaps taking a moment to Blink, open your eyes if they're
closed. To reorient in your space as you
feel your heart. Maybe noticing.
The colors shapes items living beings in your space or even
physically grounding touching the body or connecting some part
of the body to the ground. Thank you for.
Inviting me to Lena practice. Thank you so much, Michelle.
Thank you for that practice. And thank you for being here.
Thank you for being here and being you.
And Being all the things you are and her doing what you do.
Thank you for being here with me today and being in conversation
and Community young. It's a pleasure.
It's been wonderful to know you for a couple of years now, and I
feel really inspired by your work.
Yeah. Thank you.
For more information on Michelle, please.
Visit Michelle, see Johnson.com. If you've enjoyed this episode,
please share it with your friends and networks.
You can find more guests episodes at embodied.
Astrology.com in the listen section.
Get your free monthly horoscopes and stay tuned in with the
Earth's skies and planets by signing up for one of embodied.
Astrology's membership. Tears, find more information at
embodied, astrology.com /join. For more information on
Michelle, please. Visit Michelle, see Johnson.com.
If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it with your
friends and networks. You can find more guests
episodes at embodied. Astrology.com in the listen
section. Get your free monthly horoscopes
and stay tuned in with the Earth's skies and planets by
signing up for one of embodied. Astrology's membership.
Tears, find more information at embodied, astrology.com /join.