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Hello and welcome to embodied 
astrology. 

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My name is Renee cells. 
I'm a Consulting. 

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Astrologer astrology teacher and
somatic. 

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Educator. 
I'm interested in the ways 

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astrology helps expand 
conversations around embodiment 

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art, processed politics and more
in this special episode. 

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I'll be talking with Michelle. 
Cassandra Johnson. 

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Michelle is an activist social 
justice Warrior author, 

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anti-racism consultant and 
trainer intuitive, healer and 

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yoga teacher. 
Practitioner. 

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She's also the author of skill 
in action and finding Refuge two

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books that we've together 
mindfulness and spirituality 

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with the Practical work of 
dismantling racism and 

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participating in creating more 
Equitable and just relationships

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and realities. 
I'm releasing this episode on 

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April 17 2022. 
It's the day after a full moon 

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in Libra, which was trying with 
Saturn in Aquarius and square to

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Pluto in Capricorn. 
Libra is a sign that is often 

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associated. 
Baited with the word justice. 

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It asks for careful 
consideration relational tending

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peacebuilding and mindful 
negotiations that assist and 

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support individuals to be 
accountable within their 

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relationships. 
Trying with Saturn in Aquarius. 

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This full moon asks us to labor 
together with discipline 

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integrity and commitment to our 
shared Humanity Square to Pluto.

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This full moon also challenges 
us to confront the shadows of 

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History. 
The ways violence and Trauma 

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have shaped our world in lives. 
Ways we've internalized, these 

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violence has and perpetuate them
so that we can attend to the 

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messy challenging necessary and 
beautiful work of 

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transformation. 
I am so grateful to Michelle for

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her profound And Timely 
Guidance, the way she holds all 

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of these themes within her work 
and the space is she creates for

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us to dive deeper into our 
personal practices, find refuge 

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and bring skill into our actions
in this episode. 

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We'll talk about astrology and 
her chart a bit. 

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Of course. 
We're also going to talk about 

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the work of Maintaining 
connections between our 

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spiritual selves and our human 
bodies. 

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And Michelle will share from her
experience as an energy worker 

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and a Healer and intuitive a 
witch and activist and guide 

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around how to Anchor in our 
hearts wisdom in times of stress

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and overwhelm how to build 
resilience in connection and 

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relational spaces and how to 
navigate and attend to the 

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wounds and dislocation of white 
supremacy culture. 

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For more information on Michelle
or to find out about her books 

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events or other upcoming 
offerings. 

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Check the show notes. or go to 
Michelle, see Johnson.com 

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Welcome back to embodied 
astrology. 

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You were the first guest, ever 
on this podcast. 

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I think that was like, three 
years ago now. 

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Mmm-hmm. 
Yeah, and your house, and my 

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house said me. 
Yeah. 

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Mmm. 
Yeah, and I had been thinking 

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about starting to do guest 
episodes for a while. 

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And then when Lisa met, and I 
combined forces, To support your

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Workshop here at melt, like a 
really opportune moment. 

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And I want to thank you for 
being that, you know, initiator 

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and catalyser for for this 
because it's turned into a 

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really generative space. 
And also, for coming back, it's 

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been wonderful to watch your 
work and follow along with you 

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the last couple of years. 
Yeah. 

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Well, thank you for for having 
me back and responding to the 

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request and the call and for 
having me on the show as a guest

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in the first place. 
So they can correct for the shut

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for the work. 
I mean, it feels bigger than a 

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show. 
It feels like, you know, process

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and work and yeah energy and so 
thank you for that. 

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Oh my gosh. 
Yeah. 

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It was interesting to start to 
learn about you last time to 

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learn about your practice as an 
intuitive and Do you consider 

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yourself a witch or do you have 
your own word, you know, spend 

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some time magic switch? 
Some. 

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Yeah. 
I mean, I used to print 

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different words. 
Magical person. 

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Yeah, sorcerer. 
Yeah, but yeah, it was, it was 

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cool to start to get to know you
that way because I had known you

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before through the work of, 
through your work with activism 

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and yoga and then also then 
getting to work with your chart 

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and you're a Leo. 
I'm a Leo to and felt like a lot

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of kinship in the sense of the 
way that you draw upon many 

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different spaces and your work. 
And I really admire how you 

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bring them all together and in 
going through finding Refuge. 

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It feels like a new synthesis 
for you like a, like a lot of 

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new pieces are starting to come 
together. 

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So I was wondering. 
Finding Refuge came out this 

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year in 2021. 
Yeah, and yeah, and it explores 

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grief and and your personal 
experiences with grief, but also

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the collective grief and the 
book offers hard work, and Care 

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practices for holding and 
healing grief, but then your 

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first book skill in action was 
published about three or three 

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and a half years ago and 2710 or
I guess four years ago. 

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I that's now and that book was 
kind of aimed at radicalizing 

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yoga practitioners and bringing 
in this kind of really essential

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piece of social Consciousness 
and tools of social justice to 

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help practitioners connect with 
some of the more foundational, 

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or underlying precepts of yoga 
philosophy, and I'm wondering if

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if you can speak to the 
relationship between these two 

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books and the journey that 
you've been on between them and 

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what You know, if you feel that 
skill and action and your first 

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foray into publishing and and 
kind of archiving a lot of your 

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thoughts and process into a book
form, opens for you that has 

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brought you into this into this 
work with grief. 

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Yeah, this is a big question. 
I know, skill in action needed 

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to come before finding Refuge 
that makes sense to me the 

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sequencing of it all. 
And and I think they're similar 

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in a lot of ways, not just in 
structure with the practices or 

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my stories. 
But also the themes its goal of 

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action is is really about how we
create more Liberty. 

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Spaces and questions, we might 
ask to be more inclusive and to 

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notice how exclusive the 
industry wellness and yoga have 

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been historically in the west 
and, and the pain and grief that

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comes along with one's Wellness,
not being prioritized because of

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the identities. 
They embody. 

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And so, that feels like a direct
link to fighting Refuge because,

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so many of the themes about The 
grief were experiencing as a 

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collective relate to how we're 
not able to be free and and 

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systems that are in place. 
And in the way of our freedom 

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there in place, to deny us 
Liberation and they are set up 

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not to care for for many of us 
based on our identities. 

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So, that feels like, okay, this 
a thread between the two two 

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books and and just experiences 
because they feel like, I mean 

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there, They're about my life. 
Right? 

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So feels like, yes, it's in 
physical, form is a book and 

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there are things I've 
experienced, you know, stories 

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I've lived through and I also 
think at some point there was 

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an, it was after skill in 
action. 

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Came out. 
There was a shift for me when I 

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started to talk about grief more
and I would say it was probably 

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about three years ago. 
So shortly after school of 

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action came out and it may have 
been because I was In so many 

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spaces, wellness and yoga spaces
and Community spaces, and we 

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were talking about the content 
and skill and action. 

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And people felt deep grief, 
about how they were implicated 

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in the system of white 
supremacy, for example, or how 

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they've been harmed by it. 
And at one point, I said, we're 

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doing grief work. 
I remember saying this in a 

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workshop like, this is what 
we're doing. 

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I also think there's something 
about the way I hold space and 

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my facilitation, that invites 
people into showing up as they 

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Our. 
That's what I would like to do. 

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That's what I strive to do. 
So I think, you know, there's 

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for some folks. 
There's more space to share 

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emotions that they may not. 
Otherwise feel like they can 

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share or to open and be 
vulnerable and take risks. 

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I've seen that over and over and
a lot of that risk-taking has 

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been around grief and heartbreak
and confusion about heartbreak. 

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And am I causing work? 
Great for people. 

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Write all of that. 
So I know that happened in a 

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skill of action, workshop, and 
then finding Refuge came came 

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after and the the other link 
between the two when I wrote 

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skill in action are satin and 
wrote and it felt like I've said

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this many times a story that was
waiting to come out and my 

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ancestors definitely informed 
that story. 

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I'm thinking about the way that 
they couldn't move freely, 

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right, and breathe freely. 
And that feels so Central to 

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skill in action in my The yoga 
and Liberation. 

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And it is so clear to me finding
Refuge came from like Channel 

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Through ancestors. 
And in fact, they see that the 

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idea for the work around grief 
and then the book around around 

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grief, my own individual story 
telling of it. 

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And again the collectives 
experience and loss and 

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grieving. 
We're not making space degree, 

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but it's also about that and 
what we lose when we do it. 

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Actually make space to Tender 
Hearts. 

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So, yeah, I have your chart up 
right now and you are a full 

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moon, Baby, Leo sun, and 
Aquarius Moon. 

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And with the house system that I
use, which is a placidus system.

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It puts your moon in the eighth 
house, which is the place of 

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shared resources, but also 
shared feelings. 

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Our feelings become entangled 
and kind of entwined. 

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And the eighth house is like a 
murky place where there's not an

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individual where we're sharing, 
but Aquarius is a sign, you 

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know, the humanitarian and this 
kind of expansive sometimes 

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objective or emotionally 
detached even space of 

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observation where we can see 
patterns, and I'm wondering if 

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you feel this resonance in 
yourself of that, Leo Aquarius, 

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kind of axis of Edible 
heartfulness and and passion and

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then also. 
Skill and action that can come 

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through a kind of big picture 
Detachment, which I wouldn't say

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is like non feeling state, 
right, but you talk a lot in 

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your book about kind of like 
moving, moving beyond the 

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personal and into the 
transpersonal which I think can 

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allow for a sense of Detachment 
and that awareness of the big 

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picture and just a moment ago. 
You talked about your skill or 

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capacity. 
As a facilitator to hold spaces 

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where people can be courageous, 
which feels very much like an 

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eighth house phenomena. 
Yeah. 

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I'm wondering how you, how you 
feel yourself. 

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And I think that's like a hard 
question maybe to ask because 

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you're inside yourself all of 
the time, but if you could speak

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a little bit to your unfolding, 
awareness of, you know, being a 

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Leo person, You resonate with 
that and then also having an 

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aquarius Moon. 
However, you resonate with that.

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Yeah, I love when I received 
your email about my chart and 

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wanting to read that and have 
that help us move through the 

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conversation and deep in the 
conversation and connection. 

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So I was aware that a being a 
full moon baby and I really do 

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feel like The way that I came 
into the world, has everything 

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to do with being able to step 
back and observe and being able 

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to be with my heart and lead 
from my heart. 

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And when I mean, as in, you 
know, this from skill and 

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action, that I came in its two 
pounds, and 3 ounces, and was 

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taken away from my mom to a 
different hospital. 

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Because there wasn't a premium 
unit in the hospital was born in

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1975 and I, of course, don't 
know what I I was doing and my 

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two pound body, but I do know I 
was in an incubator and people 

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were picking me up and I was 
awake. 

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I know that and that continued 
this theme of being awake. 

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After my mother took me home. 
I was in the hospital for a 

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month. 
She took me home. 

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She said I slept for two months 
and then I was awake and she 

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said she would like come into my
room. 

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She'd be crawling on her knees 
to like get the crib and I just 

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be standing there looking at her
or eyes wide open. 

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And so I feel like, you know, 
How I came in and the 

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overstimulation of like a 
hospital in a 2-pound body. 

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Without people, I was connected 
to biologically or caretakers 

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around me other than people who 
worked in the hospital that I do

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think that's connected to my 
ability to observe and sort of 

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step back and watch. 
Because I think my nervous 

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system is configured in that 
way. 

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I mean, that was what I was what
I was doing. 

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I think in my Jeep embryonic 
body, I was watching, I was 

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probably wondering what was Is 
going on and I was missing that 

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connection with my mom. 
I mean, it's nine days is a long

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time to be away from from the 
person who's just birth to you. 

228
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,100
Right. 
Absolutely world. 

229
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So I do think it has to do with 
that and I never system and the 

230
00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:56,000
Leo Aquarius iMac. 
I'm really glad that I have both

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00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,500
because because I mean, I feel 
like the Leo part of me is the 

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people think I'm an extrovert. 
I'm actually not an extrovert. 

233
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,900
People see that, right? 
And think that and the warmth 

234
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:14,700
and generosity and I'm sure I 
can be in my ego to and I'm 

235
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really glad I can I can step 
back. 

236
00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:20,500
I mean I have times where I say,
I'm not attached to this. 

237
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:22,300
Like I'll just say out loud like
I'm not attached. 

238
00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:25,700
I'm just saying this thing to 
you and that feels very Aquarian

239
00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:27,100
to me. 
I'm also partnered with an 

240
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:30,400
aquarius. 
So I see that mirror who's a Leo

241
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Rising. 
So I see that mirror back at me 

242
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:35,400
which is such an interesting 
experience. 

243
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:39,600
Dance with him. 
And yeah, resonates deeply and I

244
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think it has everything to do 
with. 

245
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I was a social worker for a long
time. 

246
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:44,300
I'm doing intuitive healing 
work. 

247
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,000
I'm talking about grief. 
Not just my own grief, but the 

248
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world's great. 
You know, it's I feel like the I

249
00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:53,700
don't know if it's a balance but
I think bills show up in what 

250
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:57,300
I'm created as my work and how I
practice and how I relate with 

251
00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:00,200
others. 
So it does what you said about. 

252
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,700
It really does connect with my 
experience and resonate deeply. 

253
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:09,200
Mmm, Yeah. 
I love that Consciousness that 

254
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,100
you have of how you were forming
your nervous system and those 

255
00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:16,000
first couple days of your life. 
And when I imagine, you know, 

256
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,400
nine days for a newborn before 
you have any concept of time and

257
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:24,300
you know, what, what happens in 
the nervous system there and 

258
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:30,600
then in your chart, you have an 
aspect pattern that sometimes 

259
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,800
gets called a Mystic rectangle 
or like a magic rectangle. 

260
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:39,100
Which is basically to 
opposition's that are both 

261
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:41,800
connected to each other through 
trials and sextiles. 

262
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:45,500
And one of the opposition's is 
the Sun Moon opposition of the 

263
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:49,800
full moon. 
And then, you also have somewhat

264
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,200
of a generational aspect and 
opposition between Uranus at the

265
00:16:55,208 --> 00:16:59,800
last degree of Libra opposing, 
Jupiter, and Chiron which are 

266
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,600
conjunction. 
Aries, and Aries is the sign of 

267
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,800
the self. 
But I think even before the ego 

268
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,500
exists, right? 
So as a self there has to be an 

269
00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:14,800
Impulse to exist, you know, and 
that kind of fire of life and 

270
00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:21,400
determination to survive is very
much Ares, energy and Jupiter 

271
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,200
and Chiron are together in your 
chart. 

272
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,599
They're both retrograde. 
And to me, this is a symbol of 

273
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:33,100
first of all, a profound healer 
and teacher energy that the 

274
00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:36,100
symbol of Chiron is often 
described as As a healing 

275
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,900
Journey or a healing crisis, and
Jupiter often gets represented 

276
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:44,000
as a as a teacher, and a 
profound teacher spiritual 

277
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:50,700
teacher, and they're together in
this sign of real fortitude 

278
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:56,500
around, survival, and existence 
opposite to a symbol. 

279
00:17:56,500 --> 00:18:00,800
That describes Awakening in a in
a sign. 

280
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:04,400
Libra, that is about 
relationship. 

281
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,000
And so thinking about your birth
story with the moon in the 

282
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,900
eighth house, this kind of 
near-death experience, a 

283
00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:18,400
severing, an isolation and then 
a patterning and your nervous 

284
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:26,500
system that has allowed you to 
detach it a certain way. 

285
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:34,600
And observe that, that is also 
part of a pattern of Awakening 

286
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,400
to survival, I think into the 
patterning of survival. 

287
00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:43,200
And then what, that patterning 
can manifest as in 

288
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:49,000
relationships. 
Can you can you talk about what 

289
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:55,000
it feels like to be in your 
process which my assumption as 

290
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,200
an astrologer looking at your 
chart is that you have some kind

291
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,700
of Rapid synthesis process where
you might experience something 

292
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,300
personally and then sir? 
Immediately related to the 

293
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,400
transpersonal. 
I see you nodding. 

294
00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:11,900
Can you talk about what that 
feels like in your being to be 

295
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:15,600
in this kind of constant space 
of personal transpersonal 

296
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,400
awareness? 
Yeah. 

297
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:27,900
This makes me think of friend 
said you take your, like, you 

298
00:19:27,908 --> 00:19:30,200
take things from the spiritual 
world and bring them into the 

299
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,100
material world. 
It's making me think about that.

300
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:33,800
Like I'm Liz. 
Listening. 

301
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,200
I'm open to my ancestors and how
they need you to guide me or 

302
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,400
want to guide me. 
I feel like I'm spirit and 

303
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,000
connected to Spirit and I know 
I'm in a body on Earth and I'm 

304
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,700
here to like, do something very,
very clear that I'm both. 

305
00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:50,400
And and I don't think I've 
always been clear about that and

306
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,100
that has really come in the last
few years and articulating in 

307
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:58,700
this way of I am, I am a spirit 
and I can witness and observe 

308
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,600
and know that I'm bigger than my
body in this moment, and I'm in 

309
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,000
a body and things are happening 
to me. 

310
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:08,100
Doing things to other other 
people and the planet, right? 

311
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:11,600
And interacting in this way and 
it does feel like what you said,

312
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,800
where something will happen. 
And I think about natural 

313
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:20,500
tendency now has to figure out 
or feel into how it relates to 

314
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:23,000
everything that's happening. 
You know, that. 

315
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,500
And the way that I haven't 
finding Refuge, or even in stone

316
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,500
action in some ways, like, 
what's happening globally, 

317
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:30,300
right? 
What haven't we agreed to? 

318
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:33,000
What do we need to talk about? 
As a collective from a 

319
00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:35,200
Perspective, which is just one 
perspective. 

320
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,100
So I do think it's that 
processing and maybe that has 

321
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:43,900
everything to do with. 
I mean how I came into I'm sure.

322
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:47,500
Like, I think I had to make some
quick decisions about whether or

323
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:51,200
not I was going to be here and 
they I mean after birth came out

324
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,400
before me I was not coming and 
then they did an emergency 

325
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,400
C-section. 
I was I was not coming here, you

326
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,500
know, and so I think I did have 
this moment of deciding I'm 

327
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:06,100
going to be And then, you know, 
for those 9 days, I'm going to 

328
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:09,800
live like I'm gonna find 
strength the resilience. 

329
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,000
Of course, I again, I don't know
what I was doing, but I can 

330
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,100
imagine. 
That is what I had to do in such

331
00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:19,300
a tiny body that was asthmatic 
and had tubes everywhere. 

332
00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:23,200
Right? 
And was, was not, as I said, 

333
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:28,500
earlier connected physically, to
my mom, but I'm sure felt her 

334
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,500
because she was quite sick after
after I came here. 

335
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:38,300
So, yeah, I think I probably had
to learn that skill of 

336
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,500
something's happening. 
I need to like synthesize this 

337
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:44,900
and then figure out what I'm 
going to do and as an adult or 

338
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:49,800
growing, I think that translated
into what's happening around me 

339
00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:53,000
and needing to talk about it and
wanting to talk about it. 

340
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:58,000
Because as a Healer told me, she
said you came in to speed us up,

341
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,300
not in a way that's like white 
supremacy productivity, but 

342
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:04,100
like, okay, y'all. 
That's on fire. 

343
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:08,600
We need to do something and I do
feel, I think I felt that 

344
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,400
urgency for such a long time. 
I certainly felt it when I was a

345
00:22:11,408 --> 00:22:15,600
child, a young child, this 
urgency to to move things 

346
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,000
forward. 
So I think that's part of the 

347
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,700
process too. 
Like it's the synthesizing is 

348
00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:23,900
not just for me. 
It really is for us young and 

349
00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:27,600
whatever bits and pieces of what
I say and write and share and 

350
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,300
express energetically with 
someone, however, that helps 

351
00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:35,500
them or supports that or Helps 
them on their Journey or 

352
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:41,200
awakened, something inside them.
Yeah, I felt that quality of 

353
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,300
decisiveness in you when I've 
been in workshop with you and 

354
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:50,100
also in reading your books and 
it feels like you don't waste 

355
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:53,800
time really, you know, that that
you don't allow yourself to get 

356
00:22:53,800 --> 00:23:00,200
pulled into kind of like 
stagnancy of unclarity and you 

357
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,900
are very decisive and and when 
something Comes up in the 

358
00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:09,900
context of the group. 
You have a Clarity that allows 

359
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:16,600
you to fairly easily and and 
simply associate whatever is 

360
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,000
arising to a bigger picture, or 
give an individual, some kind of

361
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,500
reflection that allows them to 
do their own Association, which 

362
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:28,800
I really appreciated. 
And I'm thinking about the end 

363
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,400
of the first chapter in finding 
Refuge Refuge. 

364
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,600
You offer a beautiful meditation
on just being with the heart and

365
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,700
feeling your heart. 
And I love the meditation for 

366
00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:44,900
its Simplicity and its 
complexity, right? 

367
00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:48,700
Because you're inviting people 
into a very simple gesture in 

368
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:50,900
some ways. 
Like here's this organ that is 

369
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:55,900
at the heart of your centrality.
And then you're asking yourself 

370
00:23:55,900 --> 00:24:01,200
for your readers to tune in with
the aspects of this experience, 

371
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,000
that are highly complex. 
And often extremely frightened, 

372
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,200
because they are so 
interrelated. 

373
00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:12,200
I'm wondering in your years of 
practice and teaching and 

374
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,000
applying this, maybe this 
particular meditation or 

375
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,200
meditations that are similar to 
this. 

376
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:22,700
What are some of the things that
you notice happening in the room

377
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,900
or in the larger field. 
When you ask people to tune in 

378
00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:31,900
with their hearts? 
A few things. 

379
00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:41,600
I think I've noticed beer. 
I've noticed not confusion. 

380
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:46,700
And if someone's not used to 
being asked about their heart, 

381
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,100
they're kind of like, what is 
this question? 

382
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,100
This person really wants to know
about my heart, which is true. 

383
00:24:54,100 --> 00:25:01,000
I do, I want to know and I want 
people to feel into their hearts

384
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,200
that I want to feel into my and,
and allow it to move me in some 

385
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,300
way and change me. 
I've noticed Like an exhale, 

386
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,100
right? 
This like okay. 

387
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:17,500
Finally someone's asking about 
my heart and you know, for some 

388
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:22,700
people who practiced being with 
their heart over throughout 

389
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:25,300
time. 
I think there's more ease when I

390
00:25:25,308 --> 00:25:29,600
ask that question. 
I've also guided the heart 

391
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,800
meditation inviting refuge and 
some different takes on that 

392
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,600
meditation where I've invited 
people to connect to their 

393
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,000
heart. 
And I've also invited them to 

394
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000
connect to the others around 
them. 

395
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,100
So like their hearts, in this 
space, feel the heartbeat of the

396
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:49,200
people in this space. 
I've also guided people to 

397
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,000
connect their heartbeat to their
ancestors and beings that came 

398
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,200
before them. 
And the future means deep work. 

399
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,400
It's like sounds simple. 
As you know, as you said to be 

400
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,200
like, okay, check in with your 
heart and it's actually not it's

401
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:10,000
I think it's profound because 
You know, I can count the people

402
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,100
in my two hands that have asked 
me about my heart like, who lead

403
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:17,400
with, how's your heart? 
Which I think is such a powerful

404
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,100
way of being with somebody of 
inviting them into that space of

405
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:23,600
the heart and exploring that 
space. 

406
00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:29,000
And I mean, I think it connects 
us in a deeper way. 

407
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,300
So I've seen a lot of different 
rate tears happen for people, 

408
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,400
grief comes up in that moment as
well for her. 

409
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,700
People sometimes symptoms Joy 
will come in and sometimes I 

410
00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:42,700
will guide it as notice. 
What's present in your heart. 

411
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:47,600
There may be tenderness or Joy 
or confusion or connection? 

412
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,100
Right? 
We I feel many different things 

413
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:53,700
and I tune into my heart, 
depending on the moment, the 

414
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,600
day, what's happening around me 
or inside me. 

415
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:02,900
So a lot of different reactions 
and I think overall gratitude 

416
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:06,500
For the practice, I've 
experienced that with people 

417
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:11,000
that because they can sense. 
I really, I really mean it, you 

418
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,700
know, really mean what your 
heart. 

419
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:15,100
I really want to know what's 
happening there. 

420
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,600
I really want us to deepen our 
connection in that way. 

421
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,100
So some of the things I've 
noticed in space with others 

422
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:25,000
when I've LED this kind of 
meditation. 

423
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,200
Hmm. 
Have you imagine you have but 

424
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:33,200
have you brought this work into 
your dismantling racism? 

425
00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:35,700
Mm, training. 
And the spaces where you 

426
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:40,900
facilitate, maybe outside of a 
more standard yoga or meditation

427
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:44,000
space. 
Yes. 

428
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:49,900
I have brought this into this 
basis, and we talked about the 

429
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:53,900
heart or talk about the heart 
and also feelings, because part 

430
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:56,800
of what I named in skill and 
action, and I mean, many people 

431
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,300
who do anti-oppression work talk
about this, the different ways 

432
00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:03,200
to stems of Oppression of cut us
off from our intuition. 

433
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,500
From our feeling state from 
noticing, even the feelings are 

434
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:08,400
flowing through and driving our 
Behavior. 

435
00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:13,700
So often I'll connect the heart 
with how we're feeling and how 

436
00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:19,600
we're showing up in those spaces
and, you know, really to get to 

437
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,600
the heart of it. 
I bring that in a lot in those 

438
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,400
spaces, as well. 
So people can think about, And 

439
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,000
feel into the despair, they 
might be experiencing about 

440
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:34,000
racism and white supremacy and 
where they're implicated in that

441
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000
or how they're colluding with it
or how we've all been harmed 

442
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:41,000
harmed by it. 
And also what we want to do in 

443
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,400
response. 
Like, I think the heart is that,

444
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:46,500
I mean, you're Leo, like I'm led
by the heart. 

445
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:50,900
So I think it's this active 
place to so that the meditation 

446
00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:54,100
and the the practice is like, 
yes, go inward, but it's also 

447
00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:58,800
connected to how we show up. 
With one another, that's a 

448
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,800
central part of it as well. 
And I think, as people practice 

449
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,800
it over time, especially in a 
dismantling racism. 

450
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,700
Workshop were realm, then it 
will transform how they show up,

451
00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:11,800
how they see themselves, how 
they see others, how they 

452
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,100
operate, how they treat the 
planet, right? 

453
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:18,600
I think that's my hope, when I 
bring it into those spaces and 

454
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:24,100
it meant, it's there, you know, 
I've noticed sometimes there's 

455
00:29:24,100 --> 00:29:26,800
more resistance in this. 
Space has been if I'm 

456
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,900
anti-traditional, whatever, that
might mean yoga space where we 

457
00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:37,000
are practicing and often. 
People are, are in a practice of

458
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,800
meditation. 
I'm offering a different kind of

459
00:29:38,808 --> 00:29:41,600
meditation or one that resonates
and relates to what they already

460
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:47,500
are practicing in a room of, you
know, board of directors or a 

461
00:29:47,508 --> 00:29:49,300
foundation. 
If I'm asking about the heart, 

462
00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:52,300
which I do, that's there's like 
a transition. 

463
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:55,700
People are not asking me to. 
They are expecting me to lead. 

464
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:58,800
Mindfulness practice even though
I same point two and they're 

465
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,200
certainly not not thinking, I'm 
going to ask about the heart 

466
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,000
when they're making decisions 
about money and staff and but I 

467
00:30:05,008 --> 00:30:07,900
think we need to start with the 
heart. 

468
00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:10,600
Yeah, right. 
Like I mean, this is what I 

469
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,700
believe and how I tried to try 
to do my work in the world. 

470
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,600
Yeah. 
Absolutely. 

471
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,600
I was earlier trying to write up
post for social media for aspect

472
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,100
that's happening today, which is
Mars opposite. 

473
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:27,000
Neptune. 
And one of the descriptions for 

474
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,800
that aspect, is a feeling of 
overwhelm with the immense 

475
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,200
amount of grief, and 
overwhelmingness in the world 

476
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:42,000
and kind of inability to act, or
to know which way to act and 

477
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,600
what to do. 
And because it feels like I 

478
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,600
can't do anything. 
And no matter what I do. 

479
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,300
It's not going to be enough or 
it won't be helpful. 

480
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,400
And when you were talking I was 
thinking about my own Journey. 

481
00:30:55,100 --> 00:31:03,000
Trying to Grapple with the 
immensity of of Oppression and 

482
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,800
the many systems that whole 
depression and also with the 

483
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,300
lived experience of being a Leo 
rising and having Aquarius on my

484
00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:16,100
descendant, you know where I'm 
moving out into the world and I 

485
00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:20,500
feel like I am really in a space
of learning, what it is to just 

486
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:24,600
keep coming back to my heart, 
especially when it is. 

487
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,500
So Attempting to move up into my
mind to try and figure out how 

488
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:31,400
to do something better or figure
out. 

489
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,400
What's wrong or strategize about
what will be effective. 

490
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:40,800
And and that shift from a doing 
space into a being space. 

491
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:46,400
Feels very counterintuitive 
often in times of urgency. 

492
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:49,400
And I think right now there's 
there's so much urgency. 

493
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,500
There's so much tragedy. 
Yeah. 

494
00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:57,000
When you're in these spaces, you
know, in Board rooms or even in 

495
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:02,200
yoga classes or even in your own
body and with yourself, can you 

496
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:09,900
speak to what you notice in the 
transition and maybe even some 

497
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:14,400
some tools around facilitating 
the transition from a more 

498
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,600
mental or doing space into a 
kind of more heartful, or being 

499
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,200
space? 
What do you feel as an energetic

500
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,600
shift? 
Would you notice in the A room 

501
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,700
or in the field of the of the 
people that you're gathering 

502
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:33,800
with or in your own self, and I 
know you've got now, two books 

503
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,800
full of meditations and 
different practices to come into

504
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:43,900
the heart, but it may be kind of
just like, simple gestural, kind

505
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:46,200
of way. 
How do you help yourself? 

506
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,600
Keep coming back into your 
heart, or how do you help the 

507
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,400
people? 
You're with Q, coming to their 

508
00:32:50,400 --> 00:33:00,300
hearts? 
well, I think for me it's It's, 

509
00:33:01,100 --> 00:33:04,800
it's difficult. 
To be away from the heart. 

510
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,000
Like I'm not I'm sure there are 
times when I'm not connected to 

511
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,400
it, deeply. 
I mean, I'm sure of it and I 

512
00:33:14,408 --> 00:33:17,200
feel so present to it. 
But that has not always been 

513
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,100
true. 
I mean, that is a practice. 

514
00:33:19,100 --> 00:33:28,300
I think that's come through 
practice and I also a long time 

515
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:29,800
ago. 
I think this is from being a 

516
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,200
social worker was a social 
worker for like 20 years that 

517
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,700
early on. 
I realized I can't take care of 

518
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:41,500
all of the things. 
I kind of was like, you know, if

519
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:44,900
I can be aware of as much as I 
can. 

520
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:46,300
I mean, there are things. 
I don't know. 

521
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,300
I can be aware and I can feel 
into it and I can sense into it 

522
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:53,600
and there's a limit to what I 
can do. 

523
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,300
I mean, I think, I learned that 
in the first year, it may be 

524
00:33:56,300 --> 00:33:58,300
before that. 
My mom was a special education 

525
00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:00,200
teacher. 
So, I actually think I learned 

526
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,700
it from my mother Clara watching
her, do what she could do for 

527
00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:09,600
the students. 
The people she worked with and 

528
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,400
there was there were things, she
had to let go up because there's

529
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,000
only so much she could do and I 
actually really appreciate that 

530
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,400
lesson. 
I'm not saying we're we're 

531
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:27,800
limited and Part of my practice 
is prioritizing my own care so I

532
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,800
can continue to show up and do 
what I can do. 

533
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,800
And so if I'm focused on doing 
everything, I just won't be able

534
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,400
to to do that. 
So that kind of like managing 

535
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,199
expectations. 
I think helps my heart. 

536
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,100
Although I feel my heart broken 
all the time and and 

537
00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:46,699
overwhelmed. 
I think it. 

538
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:52,900
In some ways, sort of, balances 
out the desire to like, what do 

539
00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:55,100
we need to do about this? 
I'm like, I don't know what we 

540
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:57,700
can do about this, right? 
Or this is the one thing I can 

541
00:34:57,700 --> 00:34:59,100
do. 
I think that's been really 

542
00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:03,600
helpful for me. 
And then in groups, I've noticed

543
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,800
You know, when I'm leading a 
meditation about the heart or 

544
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,100
really any meditation, 
especially in a space where 

545
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:15,000
people are not necessarily used 
to the practices I offer in 

546
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,300
skill in action, or finding 
Refuge, or the ones that just 

547
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:19,900
come through. 
That are channeled. 

548
00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:22,600
I'll say this is what I'm going 
to do. 

549
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,600
I mean, I think I'll tell them 
this is, this is what I'm going 

550
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,000
to offer and it may feel 
completely uncomfortable and 

551
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,500
confusing and I'm going to 
invite you to breathe, right? 

552
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:36,600
I start there. 
And then about a minute or two 

553
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,400
in it sort of depends on the 
group and, and how long I'm 

554
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,400
leaving the practice. 
But I'll say something about, 

555
00:35:44,408 --> 00:35:49,100
you might notice resistance 
showing up in your body or as 

556
00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:51,900
ask about the heart and your 
heart that maybe constriction 

557
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:56,500
that you're feeling and breathe 
into that, breathe into that and

558
00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:59,300
notice what what's present and 
what happens. 

559
00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:03,200
And what I notice shift because 
I'm like, told people this is 

560
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,000
this is what I'm Why not offer 
and you know, people are 

561
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,800
building. 
I think about distress 

562
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,500
tolerance, like people are 
building that, that sort of 

563
00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:16,300
skill of sitting with themselves
and, and their breath and the 

564
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:17,700
heart. 
I feel like there's more 

565
00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:21,300
Stillness in the space and 
quietness. 

566
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:26,300
Even if it's just for a moment 
and I think that's powerful 

567
00:36:26,300 --> 00:36:30,800
because the world is noisy. 
Like in all the ways. 

568
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,200
It feels noisy energetically. 
It feels noisy. 

569
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,700
It's just Noisy, there are 
sounds but and there's 

570
00:36:37,700 --> 00:36:39,800
dissonance, like it's just, 
there's a lot. 

571
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:45,400
And so, I think that quiet Nest 
is a gift even if people, and 

572
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,900
that moment to be with the heart
as a gift, even if people don't 

573
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:53,200
recognize it at the time because
later people come back to me and

574
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,300
said something about the 
meditation, right? 

575
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:59,200
Or if I'm working with an 
organization over time. 

576
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,800
If for some reason I go in and 
don't start with a meditation, 

577
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,400
People will ask me about that, 
you know, and so I think if I'm 

578
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,900
able to work with people over 
time, they know it's part of the

579
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,000
practice. 
And I also, I also share 

580
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,100
something about preparing for 
our gathering or what we're 

581
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:20,700
about to do. 
So I think centering and coming 

582
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:23,000
to the heart as a way, we 
prepare for how we want to come 

583
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,000
into community and be with one 
another even if we're making 

584
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,200
budget to budgetary, decisions 
about a non-profit or something,

585
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,500
right, but let's prepare and 
transition into the space. 

586
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:38,700
So we can be present and what it
is and be more intentional about

587
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:40,600
our work. 
Yeah. 

588
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:45,800
In the part in your book where 
you you share a story about 

589
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,500
being in a predominantly white, 
town, and Pennsylvania, and 

590
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:51,900
getting pulled over for driving 
while black. 

591
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:58,100
And and then you kind of go 
through the play-by-play of your

592
00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:05,000
experience and tracking your own
Sensations and noticing your 

593
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,100
intuition versus your fear. 
And like you say that like I've 

594
00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:13,400
spent a lot of time training to 
listen to my intuition and you 

595
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,900
can parse it out. 
I'm wondering in your embodied 

596
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:23,500
experience in high stakes, high 
stress situations where there is

597
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:26,700
a potential that the outcome 
might not be good. 

598
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,500
What does it feel like to be in 
your practice? 

599
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:34,400
And how do you discern like, 
what is the difference between 

600
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,100
In in those kinds of situations 
being in a space where you are 

601
00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:42,100
connecting with your heart, and 
your intuition and your practice

602
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:49,700
as opposed to not. 
Yeah, I mean, I think I 

603
00:38:49,707 --> 00:38:51,900
appreciate this. 
This question. 

604
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,300
There was and that people 
describe this, when they're in a

605
00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:59,200
crisis. 
I was watching what was 

606
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,100
happening and it was happening 
to me. 

607
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:02,600
Right? 
As it was happening. 

608
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,700
I was witnessing it and I was 
also thinking quickly and try to

609
00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:10,700
make decisions. 
So the, you know, you know this 

610
00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:13,500
from reading it, I called the 
person I knew that have the 

611
00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:15,700
phone who was in him till as 
well. 

612
00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:19,000
I called my partner and he 
stayed on the phone and I said, 

613
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,200
just listen, like this is what's
happening. 

614
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,700
I want you to know where I am. 
He didn't even know where I 

615
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:25,600
mean, who I was. 
In North Carolina, but he didn't

616
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,200
know where I was. 
I so I was like, In a way that, 

617
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,700
I mean, that was my practice, 
although that pulls me out of 

618
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:34,000
the heart. 
It's like I have to make a 

619
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,000
decision right now to try to 
keep myself as safe as I can, 

620
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:46,000
which just became the practice. 
And I also knew that I needed to

621
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,100
be calm. 
I'm not saying I didn't like 

622
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:52,500
that. 
I wanted to say something to the

623
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:56,400
officer, like the guy who 
stopped me for being black 

624
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,800
right? 
There was no traffic violation 

625
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,200
of any sort that happened and I 
just knew I can't move too 

626
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,900
quickly. 
I can't challenge this person. 

627
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,900
I didn't feel like I could do 
that. 

628
00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:11,600
I thought that would be unsafe 
and I was in a place where I 

629
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,000
wasn't around people. 
That knew me. 

630
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,000
I mean, you know, two people 
knew I was there. 

631
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:23,000
So I also think context matters 
too, and I've been deeply 

632
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:29,800
conditioned and socialized to be
still to be clear to be polite 

633
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,000
and those situations not just by
my mother socializing. 

634
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,000
Me, but also, by culture and 
also, by all the brown and black

635
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,000
books, we've lost because of 
police brutality and the people 

636
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,700
who've lost for being who they 
are for, just being who they 

637
00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:47,800
are. 
What's interesting about that 

638
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,800
is, there was a video of it, 
which I didn't watch. 

639
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,700
But Emily, the person who's in 
this story, and this chapter, 

640
00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:00,500
and finding Refuge, who's a 
white bodied female, identified 

641
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:03,900
person who came is the person 
that called, she watched the 

642
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:09,900
video and she called me and said
you were so still, and so calm. 

643
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:15,500
And so like stoic, I think, in a
way and I wasn't surprised she 

644
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:18,800
And that because I know I can I 
can do that. 

645
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,800
Like, there's a crisis happening
right now and I'm going to do 

646
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,400
what I need to do to survive 
right now that I have control 

647
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,700
over that, but it was 
interesting to hear her 

648
00:41:28,700 --> 00:41:33,900
reflection like her witnessing 
me in that process after I'd 

649
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:36,600
witnessed myself in the process 
but not through a video. 

650
00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:38,600
Right? 
And she was like, you were 

651
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,200
answering the officers questions
and you were not, not reacting. 

652
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,800
And she was meanwhile, she was 
angry at the officer and And 

653
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:48,400
questioning and doing all these 
things at him, feel like I could

654
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,500
do. 
And so, I know my practice of 

655
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:54,200
breathing, right? 
And being with the heart and 

656
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,700
also strategizing both were 
happening, and I was totally 

657
00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:04,100
calling on my ancestors as well 
to be, like, keep me say, you 

658
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:08,400
know, it was that kept saying 
that to myself and I there was a

659
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,600
part in that experience where 
the officer wanted me to open 

660
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,900
the glove compartment to was in 
a rental car, too. 

661
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:18,600
Get the registration or 
something out of it and I 

662
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,800
started to move and then I 
stopped and said you do it like 

663
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,600
there wasn't there was a little 
challenge of like I'm not doing 

664
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,600
this. 
I mean, I did set a boundary 

665
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,500
which I think was part of the 
practice to and came from 

666
00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:33,500
breathing and being strategic 
and and being with the heart and

667
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:36,600
being embodied like, actually 
know if you want to look in the 

668
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,300
glove compartment, you can, but 
I'm not. 

669
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:40,600
And I'm, I'm not surprised I did
that. 

670
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:44,000
It's interesting to me that I 
did that because I wasn't 

671
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,900
thinking, I was just acting. 
Ting. 

672
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:48,000
And I know practice. 
Grounded me. 

673
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,200
If I didn't like have a 
practice, I I don't know. 

674
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,200
What would have happened. 
We my practice, kept me still 

675
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,500
enough. 
To move through that situation 

676
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,100
and to stay ground. 
I'm not going to say and still 

677
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:04,900
be here because anything could 
have happened, many things 

678
00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:06,500
happen. 
Every day all the time. 

679
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:11,800
My practice helped me. 
And after we left, I like burst 

680
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,400
into tears. 
So, my nervous system was 

681
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,500
completely over. 
Stimulated was in crisis. 

682
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:19,500
My Reptilian Brain was an opera,
you know, like all what was 

683
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:21,900
happening, but none of that came
out in the interaction with the 

684
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:23,300
officer. 
Yeah. 

685
00:43:23,300 --> 00:43:27,900
It came out right after. 
I could not calm myself down and

686
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:30,600
then I went back to the breath 
and cried a lot, and went to the

687
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,700
water and did all of these 
things to reground myself. 

688
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,200
Mmm. 
Yeah, when I was reading that 

689
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,800
section in your book. 
I was thinking to myself, how 

690
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,700
many tools of mindfulness have 
to be learned intrinsically, by 

691
00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:48,100
folks who are living at the 
margins of society who are 

692
00:43:48,100 --> 00:43:52,500
facing danger and threat 
constantly, that kind of just 

693
00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:55,800
what you were saying like this 
learned way of, Coming into 

694
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,900
calmness of being still love, 
you know, tracking in order to 

695
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,500
respond, not react because that 
could be the difference of, you 

696
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:07,000
know, one outcome versus 
another. 

697
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,800
And, and then after that, you 
know, that experience. 

698
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,400
You continue to talk about the 
several weeks following and kind

699
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,200
of feeling the somatic and 
psychosomatic fall out of that 

700
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,000
experience manifesting as 
illness and fatigue and 

701
00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:28,900
Depression and recognizing and 
in your experience. 

702
00:44:28,900 --> 00:44:32,400
Again, this piece of collective 
grief and Trauma that your 

703
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,900
trauma in your body was also 
part of a larger trauma of black

704
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:42,600
and brown bodies in the world. 
And so as a white body of person

705
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:48,100
reading that, you know, I'm 
struck with the Myriad of 

706
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:50,600
experiences. 
I've had in meditation and yoga 

707
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,400
spaces where we do meditations 
to connect with our hearts, 

708
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,400
right? 
And there's this kind of like 

709
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,200
opening and sometimes a very 
Blissful kind of feeling that 

710
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:05,700
that can get accessed and as a 
person who's really interested 

711
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:09,300
in social justice and someone 
who's like gone to find it and 

712
00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:11,200
then finding teachers such as 
yourself. 

713
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,000
For me, it feels like, oh, the 
real heart work is accessing. 

714
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,300
What is keeping us from being in
our hearts, which, which isn't 

715
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:25,000
that state of bliss and and 
connectivity like that. 

716
00:45:25,100 --> 00:45:29,400
That's the inherent State and 
what's keeping us from that are 

717
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:35,400
as centuries deep momentum. 
And so I'm wondering if you 

718
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,600
would be willing to speak to the
complexity in the layers that 

719
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,500
that you're holding all the time
as a facilitator and mixed 

720
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:47,700
spaces. 
You obviously hold a fair amount

721
00:45:47,707 --> 00:45:50,700
of class or ability privilege in
your body as well. 

722
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:54,000
And so I know that you're 
holding space for many spectrums

723
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,100
and layers of since when you 
invite people to tune in with 

724
00:45:58,100 --> 00:46:00,700
their bodies or with their 
hearts are with grief. 

725
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,200
What do you think is possible, 
you know, in in mixed spaces or 

726
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,800
even in Affinity groups, you 
know, when they're such 

727
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,700
incredible distance between 
experiences. 

728
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,600
What do you hope for? 
What do you, what do you think 

729
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,400
can emerge? 
Now, I'm glad that we're talking

730
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,500
about this because what, I've 
noticed over the last year, 

731
00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:27,200
maybe a little over a year and 
Make spaces on Zoom, because I 

732
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:32,500
have not been in physical space 
with people, make spaces with 

733
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:35,300
many identities. 
And because a lot of my work is 

734
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:39,000
centered around, anti-racism 
practice. 

735
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,400
Usually I'll lead with race. 
So often these spaces are still 

736
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,700
in action Workshop or or finding
Refuge. 

737
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:51,700
Or just a facilitation or 
dismantling racism training or 

738
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:55,700
space and so there are mixed 
racially. 

739
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,000
And what I've noticed is that 
black indigenous and people of 

740
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,800
color are more and more 
exhausted and white body. 

741
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:10,500
People are in these spaces are 
feeling the urgency in a 

742
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:14,200
different way. 
Are feeling motivated are 

743
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,400
feeling, curious are being in 
large part open to what is being

744
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,600
offered. 
And those two things don't 

745
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:30,500
really go go well together, you 
know, like this exhaustion and 

746
00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:36,200
fatigue and racial trauma met 
with openness. 

747
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,700
And what do I do? 
And and I don't mean that way 

748
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:42,500
buddy, people are questioning by
black people and these bases but

749
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:47,000
like Matt with this like yes, I 
need to do something now. 

750
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,400
It's really intense and it's 
become more intense. 

751
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,600
I don't know if other people 
that will space are noticing 

752
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,400
this, but it's definitely more 
intense than I've ever felt. 

753
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,100
And maybe some of it's because 
we're not in physical space with

754
00:47:59,100 --> 00:48:01,000
each other. 
I don't know if that. 

755
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,200
I mean, I think it would change 
in some ways because 

756
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,900
relationally, and with our 
nervous systems and co co 

757
00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:08,800
regulating like something would 
shift + space physical space 

758
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,200
together. 
And I still think this theme 

759
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,300
would be present. 
Of exhaustion colliding with 

760
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,400
curiosity and urgency and 
openness. 

761
00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:23,300
And it's so I've named that I've
just started to name that in 

762
00:48:23,300 --> 00:48:29,100
makes faces. 
And at the beginning, I've named

763
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:32,700
it in in a way, for a long time 
about the lived experience that 

764
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:36,000
people are having versus 
learning about something but not

765
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,100
actually living on the receiving
end. 

766
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:42,900
For example of racism. 
I'm experiencing racism all the 

767
00:48:42,900 --> 00:48:44,800
time. 
And a white supremacy culture 

768
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:47,300
and, and white body. 
People are living in a white 

769
00:48:47,300 --> 00:48:49,600
supremacy culture, and also 
benefiting from a white 

770
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,800
supremacy culture and learning 
how to dismantle it. 

771
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,700
Those white bodied folks who are
interested in that, right, but 

772
00:48:55,700 --> 00:48:58,400
are still white bodied and 
benefit from that whiteness and 

773
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,700
a way that people do not so 
talked about that for a long 

774
00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:08,000
time and have started to just 
more explicitly named this 

775
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:13,200
exhaustion and how people may be
showing up and what I met with. 

776
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,700
Openness and urgency and 
awareness of being implicated in

777
00:49:17,700 --> 00:49:20,600
a system of white supremacy. 
For example, white baby, people 

778
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,700
being able to name that what I 
what I hope emerges from these. 

779
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:31,100
These spaces is in response to 
that tool of lived and learned 

780
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:34,100
and the reality of what may be 
playing out in this space, the 

781
00:49:34,100 --> 00:49:36,500
Dynamics that are present in the
space that we're not having the 

782
00:49:36,508 --> 00:49:40,100
same experience. 
What I what I hope is that we 

783
00:49:40,100 --> 00:49:42,600
can we can meet each other 
somewhere. 

784
00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:51,700
And that because what I fear, 
and what I have witnessed is a, 

785
00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:54,900
many people are talking about 
this and have been for a long 

786
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:59,900
time. 
But I fear, is that I've seen by

787
00:49:59,900 --> 00:50:01,900
POC. 
People want to replicate the 

788
00:50:01,900 --> 00:50:04,800
system. 
The strategies white supremacy 

789
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,100
employees in their spaces, like 
to silence, white people, to 

790
00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:12,600
shut them down. 
To tell them that they're not 

791
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:18,400
worthy or They're saying is it 
and and I get it in the sense of

792
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,200
understand what's happening 
cultural? 

793
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,800
I get it and I also don't think 
that's the way we're going to 

794
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,400
heal. 
I just that's like an impasse. 

795
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:28,700
We can't meet each other. 
There. 

796
00:50:28,700 --> 00:50:30,000
We do. 
What do we do? 

797
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,800
And so I what I would like is 
for us to meet each other and 

798
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:39,700
not as so many people have named
and written about not use these 

799
00:50:39,700 --> 00:50:42,500
same tools of these systems of 
Oppression and expect Liberation

800
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:46,800
to happen because it won't. 
So how can the white body person

801
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,500
meet my exhaustion and give me 
space to rest for give me space 

802
00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:55,000
to be in that or give me space 
to mourn and how can I actually 

803
00:50:55,600 --> 00:51:00,700
show up and meet them in their, 
in their space of wanting, to do

804
00:51:00,700 --> 00:51:04,900
something about dismantling 
racism, which is what I've asked

805
00:51:04,900 --> 00:51:08,600
my buddy people to do, you know,
so even with that awareness that

806
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,700
by popular, like you need to 
dismantle this system, there's 

807
00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:13,900
they are not doing it fast 
enough and I have no time for 

808
00:51:13,900 --> 00:51:15,900
your learning and I mean, I 
totally get it. 

809
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:17,900
I'm not even there's no judgment
about this. 

810
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:20,900
It's just like, yes, and how do 
we meet each other and our 

811
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:23,600
Humanity? 
Because I think that's the 

812
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,800
pathway forward. 
Not that we all have to show up 

813
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,600
in the same way and do the same 
work, because I also am an 

814
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,200
affinity spaces, as well. 
I also see that a similar 

815
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,900
Dynamic though, because of the 
racial hierarchy because of 

816
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,700
Oppression Olympics, all of 
that, where I've seen deep 

817
00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:44,500
Connection in these spaces and 
have Also seemed seeing 

818
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:48,900
disconnection because of folks 
feeling like, well, your 

819
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:51,800
oppression is not as bad as mine
or people who are higher up in 

820
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,300
the racial hierarchy. 
Not not necessarily feeling like

821
00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:57,200
they have a space. 
So that the shrink themselves. 

822
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:02,200
I mean, it's complex like so 
much to hold and respond to, and

823
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,400
I'm learning all of the time. 
And my practice has been to name

824
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,300
here, the things going on. 
I don't know what to do about 

825
00:52:08,300 --> 00:52:11,100
them, or I do. 
But, you know, sometimes I don't

826
00:52:11,100 --> 00:52:15,200
and I'm transparent about it. 
Much just be with what's alive 

827
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:16,900
in the space. 
Because what's alive in these 

828
00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:19,500
spaces is alive everywhere. 
It's like, it's just a 

829
00:52:19,508 --> 00:52:21,800
representation of what's going 
on everywhere. 

830
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:25,800
And if we can figure out some 
way to to be with each other in 

831
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,300
this, I think we have some some 
chance at shifting. 

832
00:52:29,300 --> 00:52:32,200
What's going on outside of the 
zoom room Simon with people, 

833
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,300
right? 
That we can actually transform 

834
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,100
beyond the spaces that that I 
hold. 

835
00:52:38,100 --> 00:52:41,100
So as a long answer that there's
a there's a lot in there. 

836
00:52:41,900 --> 00:52:43,100
Yeah. 
No, I really appreciate. 

837
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,800
A tit. 
I appreciate your answer so 

838
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,300
much. 
It's making me think about 

839
00:52:48,300 --> 00:52:52,100
working with movement 
re-patterning and people's 

840
00:52:52,100 --> 00:52:54,100
bodies. 
And which is a practice I've had

841
00:52:54,100 --> 00:53:00,700
for a long time and one of the 
kind of like foundational pieces

842
00:53:00,700 --> 00:53:04,000
that I've come back to in that 
practice for myself, is that you

843
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,400
move towards the dominant 
pattern first. 

844
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,600
And before you try and change 
someone and make them do 

845
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,100
something different. 
Even if it's going to be way 

846
00:53:12,100 --> 00:53:14,400
better and you, Feel better for 
them. 

847
00:53:15,500 --> 00:53:19,000
You have to move into the 
dominant pattern so that they 

848
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,600
can really feel the impact of 
that pattern. 

849
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,400
And then from an internal space 
start to unwind it and if you 

850
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,500
don't do that and you try and 
give them a counter-movement, 

851
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,600
even if their muscles learn it, 
their physiology will never 

852
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:39,300
integrate it as a kind of reflex
and, and more automatic way of 

853
00:53:39,300 --> 00:53:41,700
being. 
And so, when you're talking 

854
00:53:41,700 --> 00:53:47,200
about that, The feeling that I 
have is a feeling that I've had 

855
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:53,600
a lot, which is like a yearning 
to have unlimited time and space

856
00:53:53,900 --> 00:53:58,000
for everyone to just be and to 
allow all these feelings to 

857
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,800
happen and to just be with them,
right? 

858
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:07,600
And not do something with them, 
but to be able to observe them 

859
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:13,000
together and actually feel what 
they are as an embodied state. 

860
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,400
Obviously we're inside of them 
in the in the structural space 

861
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,100
or the cultural body all the 
time. 

862
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:23,800
What do you think about that? 
Like it almost feels like a 

863
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:28,200
little bit dangerous, saying it,
in my white body to say, like, 

864
00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:31,400
it might, we might need to move 
more into the pattern, to 

865
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,900
actually feel it. 
And I certainly don't, don't 

866
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:36,800
want that as a cultural 
experience. 

867
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,300
But I also feel like that's 
what's happening in some ways 

868
00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:41,700
that politics are becoming more 
extreme. 

869
00:54:41,700 --> 00:54:45,700
That things are becoming more, 
and more Stark, and that part of

870
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:48,900
the urgency that a lot of white 
folks are starting to feel as 

871
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:52,900
Because they're starting to feel
right, right? 

872
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:56,600
That's right. 
Yeah, I think it's it, what you 

873
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,100
named resonates about that the 
more dominant pattern being 

874
00:55:00,100 --> 00:55:02,400
first. 
I so people can feel into that 

875
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:08,000
because superiority, you know, 
we talked about this earlier is 

876
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,500
really limited our as cut us off
from feelings, right? 

877
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:14,700
And being in bodied and 
remembering where body. 

878
00:55:14,700 --> 00:55:24,100
So, and I can add can also I can
see how I don't know if it would

879
00:55:24,100 --> 00:55:26,100
be dangerous, but feels like a 
strong word. 

880
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:28,600
I'm not actually sure because I 
think we're acting these things 

881
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,700
out all the time. 
Anyway, so I think it would be 

882
00:55:32,700 --> 00:55:36,300
interesting though to name that 
as a part of what we might 

883
00:55:36,300 --> 00:55:41,200
experience is if we're talking 
about white body to folks. 

884
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,600
And I've had people like biting 
people being in this practice of

885
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,900
understanding how white 
supremacy lives inside them 

886
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:51,600
feeling, it noticing the 
patterns of It's a messy and 

887
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,500
maybe that happens and why the 
family group? 

888
00:55:53,500 --> 00:55:58,000
I don't know. 
And I think for by POC folks for

889
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,800
us thinking about the 
internalized racial, oppression 

890
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,400
and conditioning around that and
socialization because that 

891
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,700
there's some healing that needs 
to happen and some undoing and 

892
00:56:09,700 --> 00:56:12,000
some repair that needs to happen
with that as well. 

893
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,100
It's sort of like Affinity 
spaces for internalised white 

894
00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:17,700
supremacy and moving into that 
dominant pattern at 

895
00:56:17,700 --> 00:56:20,200
understanding and feel it and 
feel the grief. 

896
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:23,100
Associated with that, and the 
history of trauma, that sled 

897
00:56:23,100 --> 00:56:26,400
white body people to operate in 
this, white supremacy system, to

898
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,100
create it and, and bipod people 
with internalized racial 

899
00:56:30,700 --> 00:56:33,200
oppression or inferiority. 
I think that would be 

900
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,300
interesting. 
And then coming together to talk

901
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,100
about it or be, or breathe 
together. 

902
00:56:39,100 --> 00:56:43,800
I'm not sure brainstorming. 
It makes sense. 

903
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:48,500
And what we know is that when I 
mean this is like implicit bias 

904
00:56:48,500 --> 00:56:52,500
people default when there's a 
crisis when there's pressure 

905
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:55,000
when there's a deadline like 
that is where people are going 

906
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,000
to go to their internalized, 
their patterns that are related 

907
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,900
to internalized superiority 
based on their Identity or to 

908
00:57:02,900 --> 00:57:05,700
their prejudices, or to the 
conditioning. 

909
00:57:05,700 --> 00:57:07,900
They've received from dominant 
culture, about what it means to 

910
00:57:07,908 --> 00:57:10,600
be them and who other people 
are, right, and whatever, what 

911
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:15,000
it takes to survive, right? 
That to I mean, that is such so 

912
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,100
core to this. 
Yeah, yeah why we're here 

913
00:57:18,100 --> 00:57:20,700
people's beliefs around what it 
has to survive or what they've 

914
00:57:20,700 --> 00:57:24,100
had to do to survive. 
Its there's a note, there is 

915
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:25,900
both I think. 
Yeah. 

916
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:29,600
So yeah, I think it's is really 
deep to think about that. 

917
00:57:30,300 --> 00:57:33,500
And it makes sense to me, that 
people would practice that 

918
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:37,300
before being able to learn a new
pattern and way of being. 

919
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,800
Yeah. 
Well, I mean, I do see I feel 

920
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:45,600
like it is this hard work, you 
know, of If we're not going to 

921
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:49,200
do spiritual bypassing, right? 
Like hard work to just float 

922
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,500
over things. 
There is so much that needs to 

923
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:56,300
be felt in order to really get 
into into the heart and into the

924
00:57:56,300 --> 00:58:00,900
connection. 
And, and again, I mean, I so 

925
00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:05,300
love and respect how you build 
Bridges between the personal and

926
00:58:05,300 --> 00:58:09,000
the transpersonal because I feel
like your work allows enough 

927
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,400
spaciousness for folks to feel 
the ways that they are 

928
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,700
implicated. 
And Bodying these patterns 

929
00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:19,000
without needing to take, you 
know, to feel that it's their 

930
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:23,100
fault, you know, which I think 
or their responsibility to fix, 

931
00:58:23,100 --> 00:58:27,800
you know, that it's like, we're 
all kind of born into it. 

932
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,400
It's nobody's fault and it's 
everybody's responsibility, 

933
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:36,800
right? 
And, and in your books, you 

934
00:58:37,300 --> 00:58:41,800
illustrate such profound somatic
examples of the personal and the

935
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,000
transpersonal. 
One of which I've heard you 

936
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,300
speak to a number of times, 
which is just that oppression 

937
00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:53,200
takes the breath away. 
And this this chorus of response

938
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,600
to stay in police violence, and 
also to the effects of 

939
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:01,000
environmental and economic 
Injustice, that black and brown 

940
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,200
bodies, literally have less 
access to or capacity often for 

941
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,500
a full breath. 
And I'm wondering if you would 

942
00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:13,400
be, if you would be willing to 
read this part. 

943
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,800
Of your book where you talk 
about your mother's spinal 

944
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:23,200
condition, the disregard of my 
concerns and my mother's needs 

945
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,100
occurred because of what white 
supremacy and oppressions. 

946
00:59:26,100 --> 00:59:30,500
Drip away from us, our ability 
to connect to ourselves and 

947
00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:34,600
recognize our own humanity and 
Divinity, the Divinity that each

948
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,700
one of us in bodies. 
This is a Divinity, we embody, 

949
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,900
even as we are encouraged to 
lose our connection with other 

950
00:59:41,900 --> 00:59:45,600
sentient beings. 
When one loses connection, with 

951
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,300
one cell, it is difficult to see
the humanity in others. 

952
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,400
It is a challenge to digest and 
process. 

953
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:56,300
The grief that arises from being
severed from our Collective and 

954
00:59:56,300 --> 00:59:58,700
Nate Divinity, humanity and 
wholeness. 

955
00:59:59,700 --> 01:00:02,700
It becomes impossible to 
interrupt patterns of violence 

956
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:07,700
loss dominance and harm 
behaviors that led my mother 

957
01:00:07,700 --> 01:00:10,300
being uncared-for led to my 
mother being uncared. 

958
01:00:10,300 --> 01:00:14,200
For I sat in the space of 
watching my familial route. 

959
01:00:14,700 --> 01:00:18,600
My mother faced death as my 
country played a game of Risk 

960
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,900
with Humanity itself through 
oppressive policies and 

961
01:00:21,900 --> 01:00:25,700
practices horrific violence, and
cultural genocide. 

962
01:00:26,300 --> 01:00:29,600
The trauma of watching my 
mother's body and the Of 

963
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,900
medicine failed. 
Her coupled with singer spot 

964
01:00:32,900 --> 01:00:36,600
spinning World at War the 
uninterrupted pattern of black 

965
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,800
and brown bodies and souls 
murdered women being stripped of

966
01:00:39,808 --> 01:00:43,700
the power to have control over 
their bodies and a President Who

967
01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:45,700
seems to have a death wish for 
us all. 

968
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,200
Well, those of us who aren't 
sis, white straight, and male 

969
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:53,200
citizens, overwhelmed, my 
system, the Heartbreak from the 

970
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,200
trauma of watching a body with 
an inflamed route. 

971
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,300
While living in a country with 
an infection at its root. 

972
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,800
Root at the base of how we came 
to be challenged. 

973
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,100
My capacity to remain 
open-hearted and induced a 

974
01:01:06,100 --> 01:01:08,500
Conjuring of the deepest 
expression of my spiritual 

975
01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:12,900
practice this far. 
Thank you. 

976
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,300
Thanks, for asking me to read 
it. 

977
01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:23,500
I went back to that this morning
because I woke up and 

978
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:28,800
immediately read the news which 
is something that I don't always

979
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:33,800
allow myself to do in the 
morning and today I did and so 

980
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,500
we're recording on September 2nd
the last several weeks. 

981
01:01:37,500 --> 01:01:40,400
It's felt like it just keeps 
being more on top of more. 

982
01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:46,200
There's Afghanistan fires 
floods, pandemic variance in the

983
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,800
news. 
This morning was an article on A

984
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,100
study on the racial wealth Gap 
in the u.s. 

985
01:01:52,100 --> 01:01:56,800
Saying that black children have 
one sent to every dollar that a 

986
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:02,400
white child will have in the US.
And then yesterday in Texas. 

987
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,300
They passed several pieces of 
legislation and one day one of 

988
01:02:06,308 --> 01:02:10,000
which made it nearly impossible 
for women to access abortion and

989
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,400
threatens anyone who might 
assist them with massive 

990
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,600
Financial penalties and no legal
recourse, and then at the same 

991
01:02:15,607 --> 01:02:20,400
time voting rights restrictions,
Actions were passed and Texas 

992
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,500
authorized individuals to carry 
guns without licenses or 

993
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:26,200
background checks, or firearms 
training. 

994
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,900
So, I came back to this 
paragraph today because I was 

995
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:38,200
feeling in my body, a kind of 
intense shutdown and the 

996
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:42,000
overwhelm of grief and panic and
rage. 

997
01:02:44,100 --> 01:02:48,200
And this feeling this knowing 
that it's going to continue to 

998
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:52,700
get worse before it gets better.
And that as these oppressive 

999
01:02:52,700 --> 01:02:56,800
systems are in their death 
throes that they're, you know, 

1000
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,000
they're grasping for life that 
are becoming even more extreme. 

1001
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,000
And at the same time. 
I know that there are new 

1002
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,800
systems you merging and and 
coming up in spaces where we are

1003
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,600
connecting with one another and 
more intimate. 

1004
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:16,700
And and even Yeah, I want to say
underground. 

1005
01:03:16,700 --> 01:03:23,700
But you know, out of the public 
sphere new systems are emerging.

1006
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,200
And I'm wondering if you can 
speak from your lens as an 

1007
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:33,100
intuitive and you know, highly 
spiritual and heart centered 

1008
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:37,700
person and a Healer as well as 
your lens as an activist to what

1009
01:03:37,700 --> 01:03:41,400
you feel as the spiritual 
imperative of this time. 

1010
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:51,000
Yeah, the big question. 
So there are a couple of 

1011
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:57,200
thoughts that I have and, and 
one is it's not a direct answer 

1012
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,600
to your question, but I will 
answer what came to mind. 

1013
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:05,000
First is the bhagavad-gita, 
which, you know, is such an 

1014
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:11,700
important text II, go to it all 
the time, and I think it's 

1015
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:18,600
Chapter 6, but I'm not sure. 
But, in that chapter Krishna, 

1016
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,200
who's guiding Arjuna the 
warrior. 

1017
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:26,400
Krishna's. 
God basically talks about a 

1018
01:04:26,408 --> 01:04:28,800
Dharma. 
So he talks about Dharma 

1019
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:32,200
throughout to Arch and itís, a 
like Duty. 

1020
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,300
That's what is translated to in 
the bhagavad-gita. 

1021
01:04:34,700 --> 01:04:38,500
Although it means different 
things in different contexts. 

1022
01:04:38,900 --> 01:04:44,500
And then he talks about a Dharma
and Krishna says like, When too 

1023
01:04:44,500 --> 01:04:47,500
much a Dharma builds up, which 
is like, all the things you just

1024
01:04:47,500 --> 01:04:53,800
named that I will come and clear
way, what needs to be shed. 

1025
01:04:54,700 --> 01:04:58,900
And then more a Dharma will 
build up and I keep going back 

1026
01:04:58,900 --> 01:05:04,400
to it because it struck me. 
It resonated. 

1027
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,000
I haven't, I didn't like 
describe what I believed in that

1028
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:13,600
way prior to reading it, but it 
just landed when I, when I read 

1029
01:05:13,700 --> 01:05:18,300
And again, like and and I know 
people may have different 

1030
01:05:18,300 --> 01:05:20,500
beliefs here. 
But in a way, I think it sort of

1031
01:05:20,500 --> 01:05:25,600
helped me feel more settled 
about what's going on, even 

1032
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:31,500
though everything's unsettled. 
And it helped me make meaning of

1033
01:05:31,500 --> 01:05:34,300
what's happening. 
And I think you're right that 

1034
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,100
the systems that are in their 
death roads right now, or I'm 

1035
01:05:37,100 --> 01:05:39,900
trying to cling on more tightly 
like that is that is what we 

1036
01:05:39,900 --> 01:05:47,700
understand me happens. 
Like that's the cycle and what 

1037
01:05:47,700 --> 01:05:51,100
you said about, you know, new 
systems emerging to. 

1038
01:05:51,100 --> 01:05:55,100
So it's the Death Rows are 
happening and people are doing 

1039
01:05:55,100 --> 01:05:59,500
really deep work in response to 
all of this suffering. 

1040
01:05:59,500 --> 01:06:02,800
And Has, we don't want to 
continue to suffer and we don't 

1041
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,100
want to continue to create 
suffering for others. 

1042
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,600
So. 
I think. 

1043
01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:14,300
Part of what we can do right 
now. 

1044
01:06:14,300 --> 01:06:18,500
In this does feel like this in 
my mind spiritual imperative. 

1045
01:06:18,500 --> 01:06:22,100
What we can remember is 
something that I said earlier 

1046
01:06:22,100 --> 01:06:25,600
about remembering, I'm spirit 
and I'm in a Bobby, but I'm also

1047
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,900
bigger than my body. 
This helps me all the time, 

1048
01:06:28,900 --> 01:06:31,800
continue to show up and do the 
work that I can do and need to 

1049
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,300
do in the world. 
That my experience is much 

1050
01:06:35,300 --> 01:06:38,200
bigger than this moment. 
And all of the news that you 

1051
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,900
read this morning and it is the 
news that you read this, where 

1052
01:06:40,900 --> 01:06:43,600
you know, it's like It's that 
and it's and it's there's 

1053
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:47,800
something else going on because 
when I, when I forget, I'm 

1054
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:52,200
Spirit or that there's something
else bigger than me and these 

1055
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:56,100
new systems are emerging and 
that we were, like, Geniuses. 

1056
01:06:56,100 --> 01:06:57,600
We can create something 
different. 

1057
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:58,800
Right? 
We're brilliant. 

1058
01:06:58,900 --> 01:07:01,900
We can we can create something 
different when I forget that. 

1059
01:07:01,900 --> 01:07:08,400
I'm in Despair and I'm 
constricted in a way versus like

1060
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:10,900
actually I'm having a much more 
expansive experience in 

1061
01:07:10,900 --> 01:07:12,500
something else. 
This is possible. 

1062
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,500
But the way I do that, is by 
recognizing I'm Spirit. 

1063
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,600
Someone else may do that by 
recognizing their bigger than 

1064
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,200
their bodies, but may not 
necessarily see themselves as 

1065
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,900
connected to Spirit. 
I think things are Urgent. 

1066
01:07:24,900 --> 01:07:28,900
I think things have been urgent.
I think we're in dire times. 

1067
01:07:28,900 --> 01:07:31,600
Right? 
As I always say people are 

1068
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,000
dying. 
The planet is dying because of 

1069
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,900
people. 
And what we do, this feels true 

1070
01:07:36,900 --> 01:07:41,500
to me, and and I don't want to 
be swallowed by this. 

1071
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:45,200
Baroness of the suffering. 
I want to be able to be with it.

1072
01:07:45,900 --> 01:07:50,100
And also remember, what is 
possible and my part in creating

1073
01:07:50,100 --> 01:07:53,400
what is possible? 
What could be different? 

1074
01:07:53,700 --> 01:07:56,900
So that may have been around 
about answer, but that's what 

1075
01:07:56,900 --> 01:08:00,400
came came through that 
remembering because when we 

1076
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,700
forget, that's what dominant 
culture wants us to do. 

1077
01:08:02,700 --> 01:08:06,700
Anyways, forget our genius 
Brilliance, our ability to 

1078
01:08:06,700 --> 01:08:11,300
create something different, even
as these systems are working on 

1079
01:08:11,300 --> 01:08:13,500
us. 
Us and working with us and 

1080
01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:18,200
harming us. 
So that's that's what I say 

1081
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:19,800
about that. 
Mmm. 

1082
01:08:20,300 --> 01:08:24,600
When you are talking, I was 
imagining mountains and how the 

1083
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:27,899
mountain that we can see, you 
know, on the land might be 

1084
01:08:28,100 --> 01:08:32,899
massive, but the bulk of it is 
underground and we can't even 

1085
01:08:32,899 --> 01:08:35,000
see it. 
And that mountains are forming 

1086
01:08:35,700 --> 01:08:39,200
and eroding all the time. 
Very, very slowly over time. 

1087
01:08:40,100 --> 01:08:43,399
And when you said that, What 
dominant culture wants us to do?

1088
01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:50,899
It wants us to forget our 
capacity, to remember that we're

1089
01:08:50,899 --> 01:08:54,399
much bigger than our individual 
selves, and we're part of a 

1090
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:58,100
larger momentum. 
I love your reminder because it 

1091
01:08:58,100 --> 01:09:01,300
feels like a lot of the urgency 
that comes in with dominant 

1092
01:09:01,300 --> 01:09:05,300
culture, is the urgency of the 
individual and a lot of the 

1093
01:09:05,300 --> 01:09:12,000
forgetting is that Not only are 
we in our spiritual selves, much

1094
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,899
bigger than our bodies, but we 
in our personalities and our 

1095
01:09:16,899 --> 01:09:19,600
person, this are so much bigger 
than the self. 

1096
01:09:22,700 --> 01:09:25,000
Yeah. 
And capitalism wants us to think

1097
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,899
about ourselves as to self, you 
know, like, you know, this right

1098
01:09:27,899 --> 01:09:31,000
and to forget that. 
So I mean, all this systems with

1099
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:36,000
that's what came to mind when 
you were naming that buy things 

1100
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,500
to make yourself feel better, 
right? 

1101
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:40,000
It's just about the physical 
body. 

1102
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:45,600
It is just about you know, the 
self and and that's it's not 

1103
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:49,000
true. 
And we're so much bigger. 

1104
01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:52,500
Yeah, and what would happen if 
we lived into that and 

1105
01:09:52,500 --> 01:09:54,100
remembered? 
Yeah. 

1106
01:09:57,300 --> 01:10:03,800
Okay, so last piece with your 
astrology, you also have another

1107
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,100
major aspect pattern in your 
chart. 

1108
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:10,700
That's called a grand Trine. 
You have a grand water Trine and

1109
01:10:10,700 --> 01:10:14,700
a grand Trine is when all three 
signs of the same element are 

1110
01:10:14,700 --> 01:10:20,000
linked with placements. 
And so your cancer Rising person

1111
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,400
you have Saturn in cancer in the
first house. 

1112
01:10:24,700 --> 01:10:28,800
In in it's like most exalted 
expression. 

1113
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:35,700
Saturn is like a mountain, like 
it grows slowly over time. 

1114
01:10:35,700 --> 01:10:38,700
It applies, labor and force with
repetition. 

1115
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:45,700
And in that repetition something
gets built slowly over time. 

1116
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:52,500
And Saturn is considered to be 
afflicted in cancer because it, 

1117
01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:55,600
you know, cancer is the sign 
that Wants bonding and 

1118
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:59,900
togetherness, and Saturn can 
also be isolation and 

1119
01:10:59,900 --> 01:11:04,200
restriction. 
But you, you have Saturn in the 

1120
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:08,200
first house in cancer. 
And one thing that that kind of 

1121
01:11:08,500 --> 01:11:13,600
makes me think about, is some of
what we talked about in your 

1122
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,900
birth story, you know, and in 
the ways that you've had to 

1123
01:11:17,900 --> 01:11:24,500
create Stability in your own 
being, that is a self-sustaining

1124
01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:28,300
system ability because you you 
weren't. 

1125
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,800
I mean, obviously, you were in 
relationship with the doctors 

1126
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,500
and the nurses at the ICU, but 
you weren't in relationship to 

1127
01:11:33,500 --> 01:11:38,700
your who had been your previous 
source and connection to life. 

1128
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:45,500
But then I'm also thinking of 
the aspect of Saturn that 

1129
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:50,400
represents labor and cancer as a
sign that represents emotion. 

1130
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,400
And you as a person who very 
much in your person has an 

1131
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:57,600
identity, does a huge amount of 
emotional labor and literally is

1132
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:02,400
laboring for bonding and 
recognition of shared connection

1133
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:08,300
and and shared home. 
Your Saturn is trying with your 

1134
01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:13,900
North Node in Scorpio. 
And the North Node, and Scorpio 

1135
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:18,700
suggest that in this lifetime, 
you're coming to do 

1136
01:12:18,700 --> 01:12:21,100
transformational work. 
Like you're coming in as a 

1137
01:12:21,108 --> 01:12:25,100
midwife of some kind of 
transformative process and you 

1138
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,600
spoke to this earlier in terms 
of like a decision that you 

1139
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:33,500
need. 
And I'm thinking about the the 

1140
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:37,200
decisiveness that you had on 
your own being to come into this

1141
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,100
body and into this life at this 
time. 

1142
01:12:39,100 --> 01:12:43,500
And then to follow this, Thread 
of ancestral, resonance in your 

1143
01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:44,900
own Spirit and the work that 
you're doing. 

1144
01:12:44,900 --> 01:12:51,800
And then these two points form, 
a trying to the very top of your

1145
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,900
chart to the heaven of your 
chart, which is a symbol of 

1146
01:12:54,900 --> 01:12:58,700
like, if you're a seed, the top 
of the chart is the light, 

1147
01:12:58,700 --> 01:13:01,100
that's pulling your growth 
upwards and towards it. 

1148
01:13:01,100 --> 01:13:04,400
And the highest object in your 
chart is actually the lunar 

1149
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:10,000
apogee Lilith. 
And one of the ways that I think

1150
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,700
a lot of people are kind. 
Working with Lilith right now. 

1151
01:13:12,700 --> 01:13:18,100
Is that as a symbol of kind of 
the I don't know if it was the 

1152
01:13:18,100 --> 01:13:21,400
original but a very 
foundational, very pivotal 

1153
01:13:21,700 --> 01:13:24,700
separation. 
And this is the separation 

1154
01:13:24,700 --> 01:13:27,800
between the masculine and 
feminine between life and death.

1155
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:33,900
Also the separation between 
black and white as like Notions 

1156
01:13:33,900 --> 01:13:37,100
of, you know, Concepts that are 
far beyond the actual colors, 

1157
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:42,600
but Lilith is represented as 
kind of the Oil, demonized, 

1158
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:49,800
feminine, and a dark feminine 
and her symbol over the span of 

1159
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:54,800
thousands of years, is gone 
through, a transformation of a 

1160
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,400
symbol that at one point 
represented, the continuity of 

1161
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:03,300
Life, the tree of life and then 
became a symbol of the dangers 

1162
01:14:03,300 --> 01:14:06,900
of like why, you know, wild 
Untamed women who wouldn't 

1163
01:14:06,900 --> 01:14:08,600
listen to men or something like 
that. 

1164
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,800
And, and now a lot of 
Challengers myself included in 

1165
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:17,300
this group are reclaiming this 
symbol and and thinking a lot 

1166
01:14:17,300 --> 01:14:22,100
about this, you know, Lilith as 
a symbol that can represent 

1167
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:27,000
embodied eroticism that can 
represent bodily sovereignty and

1168
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:32,100
self ownership and that can also
I think represent the lived 

1169
01:14:32,100 --> 01:14:38,300
experience and or the desire to 
community in conversation with 

1170
01:14:38,300 --> 01:14:41,100
folks who've had lived 
experiences of marginalization 

1171
01:14:41,100 --> 01:14:46,700
and Depression and to do the 
work of redress, and, and 

1172
01:14:46,700 --> 01:14:48,900
healing to whatever extent, 
helias possible and 

1173
01:14:48,900 --> 01:14:51,600
transformation within those 
stories. 

1174
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:57,100
And so it's not a surprise to me
to see this figure at the top of

1175
01:14:57,100 --> 01:15:01,900
your chart in Pisces, which is a
sign that is boundless, that is 

1176
01:15:01,900 --> 01:15:06,100
constantly emerging. 
That is the everythingness and 

1177
01:15:06,100 --> 01:15:08,700
and the place where everything 
comes together. 

1178
01:15:09,900 --> 01:15:14,400
And right now in transit the 
planet, Neptune is kind of 

1179
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:16,700
hovering over this space in your
chart. 

1180
01:15:17,100 --> 01:15:23,400
And I've seen this with clients 
who are on a spiritual path and 

1181
01:15:23,700 --> 01:15:28,400
and often who are embodying 
spiritual presence as leaders in

1182
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:32,000
the world because the the 
midheaven is, is also the place 

1183
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:37,500
of Public Presentation and where
you really come into the roles 

1184
01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:38,900
that you hold as a public 
figure. 

1185
01:15:39,100 --> 01:15:42,900
ER and so, when interpretation 
for this, you know, it's just 

1186
01:15:42,900 --> 01:15:46,500
that these influences in the 
ways that they are combining are

1187
01:15:46,700 --> 01:15:50,900
lifting you into a place of 
prominence and that Spirit now 

1188
01:15:50,900 --> 01:15:54,800
is kind of holding your your 
body along and it's going okay? 

1189
01:15:54,800 --> 01:16:00,600
Like you have to hold this role 
now and you can't argue with it.

1190
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,100
You can't resist it. 
This is the role that is being 

1191
01:16:03,100 --> 01:16:07,100
given to you and you're doing it
so gracefully. 

1192
01:16:07,100 --> 01:16:11,900
And one of the ways that I see 
you're doing, Is through really 

1193
01:16:12,300 --> 01:16:16,600
beautiful collaboration and your
project was Finding Refuge is so

1194
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:20,100
much more than a book. 
It's a podcast you have over 20 

1195
01:16:20,100 --> 01:16:23,200
episodes now. 
And a few years ago, you produce

1196
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,500
the summit, which, which I think
was the beginning research of 

1197
01:16:26,500 --> 01:16:31,000
this grief work. 
So, I'm wondering Michelle what 

1198
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:34,200
it has been like to step into 
this role of spiritual 

1199
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:38,900
leadership for you and to hold 
this space in communal. 

1200
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:43,300
No leadership, you've talked to 
so many people about grief and 

1201
01:16:43,300 --> 01:16:46,600
spirit. 
What have you learned in this 

1202
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:48,600
process? 
Like, has anything surprised 

1203
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:52,400
you? 
Are you, what are you thinking 

1204
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,700
about? 
Now, in terms of how you feel 

1205
01:16:54,700 --> 01:16:58,000
your work evolving or where it's
taking next? 

1206
01:16:59,900 --> 01:17:02,400
Thank you for sharing that with 
me. 

1207
01:17:02,700 --> 01:17:08,300
I only knew a little bit about 
my chart, and to thank you for 

1208
01:17:08,300 --> 01:17:12,200
sharing that. 
You and and doing that labor of 

1209
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,400
reading, my chart and 
preparation for this. 

1210
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,900
Thank you. 
I appreciate you. 

1211
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:23,200
You know, when I lived in 
Portland, I love their 20 second

1212
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:28,800
half of 2017, first half of 
2018, and it was a really 

1213
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:33,300
challenging time and year. 
And I was getting divorced. 

1214
01:17:33,300 --> 01:17:35,700
I moved across the country. 
I started a new job. 

1215
01:17:35,700 --> 01:17:37,800
Although, like on this stress 
test. 

1216
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:41,700
I have marked, many of the 
things that, you know, push 

1217
01:17:41,700 --> 01:17:45,200
people over the edge or or 
somewhere. 

1218
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:48,400
And then I lost people, my 
father, and my grandmother 

1219
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:55,000
transitions. 
And that year and I feel like 

1220
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,500
that was, although I think I've 
been on this journey for ever 

1221
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:02,800
since I came in. 
I think that year was the skill 

1222
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:06,700
of action came out, it was 
Looking back. 

1223
01:18:06,700 --> 01:18:08,600
I understand. 
It was a year that was preparing

1224
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,100
me to be where I am now and I'll
probably say that about this 

1225
01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:13,000
year later. 
This year has not been 

1226
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,700
personally traumatic, for me, 
other than feeling the world and

1227
01:18:16,700 --> 01:18:18,700
the heaviness. 
The world's heaviness that I 

1228
01:18:18,700 --> 01:18:23,200
feel that I've been pretty lucky
and have privileged, like, I'm 

1229
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,200
in my head and I've been able to
move my work. 

1230
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:29,700
So I recognized that, but I do 
know I'm in this constant state 

1231
01:18:29,700 --> 01:18:34,400
of Being prepared for what's 
next and Portland really showed 

1232
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:42,500
me that and it also reminded me.
I'm held in some way and I say 

1233
01:18:42,500 --> 01:18:45,500
this because I trust where I'm 
being led. 

1234
01:18:46,700 --> 01:18:51,300
And I've learned to listen to 
the signs to the ancestors, to 

1235
01:18:51,300 --> 01:18:55,200
the get a lot of science from 
the natural world or dreams. 

1236
01:18:55,400 --> 01:19:00,000
My grandmother came to me in a 
dream, the other night and gave 

1237
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:03,100
me some messages. 
So I'm listening and I feel like

1238
01:19:03,100 --> 01:19:06,900
I'm not resisting. 
I'm like, okay, I need to move 

1239
01:19:06,900 --> 01:19:09,300
to Portland. 
Okay, I need to move back. 

1240
01:19:09,300 --> 01:19:12,300
All right, I need to listen to 
this. 

1241
01:19:12,300 --> 01:19:16,300
This work around grief, come 
through and, and not need in the

1242
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,200
I said, that's not what I mean. 
But like okay, this is the next 

1243
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:24,300
thing and I'm really glad I'm 
listening because it it makes 

1244
01:19:24,300 --> 01:19:28,300
this process easier. 
There's more ease because 

1245
01:19:28,300 --> 01:19:32,400
there's trust but that I didn't 
always listen, right? 

1246
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:35,500
Like I'm I was hard-headed for a
long time and I probably still 

1247
01:19:35,500 --> 01:19:39,800
in in some ways, but I'm like, 
also, in this receptive, Place 

1248
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:44,400
lead me where you want me. 
And and I will go and where I've

1249
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:46,500
been LED has felt deeply 
aligned. 

1250
01:19:46,500 --> 01:19:49,900
And I feel like I'm in integrity
and doing what I'm most meant to

1251
01:19:49,900 --> 01:19:53,300
do. 
And with that, I'm open to 

1252
01:19:53,300 --> 01:19:57,400
what's next. 
I mean, if certainly have things

1253
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:00,800
scheduled for a long time was 
still in action and have things 

1254
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,200
happening with finding refuge 
and writing another book right 

1255
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:09,000
now as well. 
And I'm also wanting to leave 

1256
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,500
some space of events. 
I'm taking three months off in 

1257
01:20:11,500 --> 01:20:14,000
2020. 
Which I'm so this is like never 

1258
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:17,100
happen. 
I mean since like school like 

1259
01:20:17,100 --> 01:20:20,500
when we had summer break or 
something, but I'm a card that 

1260
01:20:20,500 --> 01:20:22,800
I'm committed to it. 
I'm doing it and I think that 

1261
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,200
will give me more information. 
It will allow me to rest and 

1262
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:29,000
give me more information about 
where to go and do some deeper 

1263
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:34,400
spiritual work and frankly like 
we're cover because I am holding

1264
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:38,100
a lot. 
I mean we all are and I'm like 

1265
01:20:38,100 --> 01:20:41,700
in the work of holding people. 
So it's and their emotions and 

1266
01:20:41,700 --> 01:20:44,500
their stuff. 
Tough and it's a lot. 

1267
01:20:44,500 --> 01:20:47,700
So I'm I'm excited because that 
will illuminate. 

1268
01:20:47,700 --> 01:20:49,900
What is next? 
And what is needed? 

1269
01:20:49,900 --> 01:20:53,700
And that was just for seizing. 
It was so cute. 

1270
01:20:55,500 --> 01:20:57,100
People are wondering, what's 
happening. 

1271
01:20:57,100 --> 01:21:03,900
It's really cute. 
Oh my goodness affirming. 

1272
01:21:03,900 --> 01:21:07,100
Yes, three months a flow that 
will, that would be helpful. 

1273
01:21:08,100 --> 01:21:11,200
So, so yeah, I feel I don't feel
shy. 

1274
01:21:13,100 --> 01:21:16,500
I don't feel shy about it and I 
don't want to shrink myself. 

1275
01:21:16,900 --> 01:21:21,700
I think my Edge like growing 
Edge is, is receiving it. 

1276
01:21:21,700 --> 01:21:26,700
When people say you're a 
spiritual teacher or you or you,

1277
01:21:26,900 --> 01:21:29,000
whatever, they're telling me. 
I'm doing or how they've been 

1278
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:32,100
deeply affected. 
That is my, my growing Edge. 

1279
01:21:34,100 --> 01:21:37,300
Because I want to be humble, 
like, big time. 

1280
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:40,000
I want to be humble. 
And there, I can still be humble

1281
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:42,100
and receive, but I know it's a 
thing for me. 

1282
01:21:42,100 --> 01:21:45,400
It's a, it's a practice to 
listen to people when they're 

1283
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:48,800
telling me things about what 
came through me and how it 

1284
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:50,600
affected them. 
Because I'm so clear. 

1285
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,800
It's not about me, but it is me 
creating things right? 

1286
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:59,200
That inspire people. 
So that's, that's my Edge with 

1287
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:03,700
this, like, moving into this 
space and, and place. 

1288
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,400
Of being a spiritual teacher 
intuitive, or healer. 

1289
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:08,200
What we have different words to 
describe. 

1290
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:12,600
This, right? 
Is really receiving it and it's 

1291
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:16,100
reflected back to me. 
I love that. 

1292
01:22:16,100 --> 01:22:20,100
Thank you so much for sharing 
that I feel like that's really 

1293
01:22:20,100 --> 01:22:21,700
important. 
What you said? 

1294
01:22:21,700 --> 01:22:30,900
And yeah, the vision that I 
nurture for myself, as like a 

1295
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:37,100
possible future, is this vision 
of, you know, galaxies and 

1296
01:22:37,100 --> 01:22:40,700
constellations where there are 
lots of stars. 

1297
01:22:41,100 --> 01:22:46,700
And I think, I think that this 
is part of what the Leo Aquarius

1298
01:22:46,700 --> 01:22:53,200
axis is also Illuminating is, is
that each one of us has a lot of

1299
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,700
Brilliance. 
And when we Actually can Center 

1300
01:22:56,700 --> 01:23:01,800
that Brilliance and give it 
generously and receive feedback.

1301
01:23:02,100 --> 01:23:05,000
Whether that's gratitude and 
praise and celebration or 

1302
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:08,300
whether that's like, hey just 
didn't work for me. 

1303
01:23:08,300 --> 01:23:11,500
Or did you think about this? 
You know, that that are 

1304
01:23:11,500 --> 01:23:17,200
brilliant than can become even 
more vibrant, but that the 

1305
01:23:17,500 --> 01:23:21,000
Universe isn't just one star, 
right? 

1306
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:24,600
It's like billions and then 
there are all kinds of 

1307
01:23:24,900 --> 01:23:28,300
Oscillations and relationships 
between us that support, 

1308
01:23:28,300 --> 01:23:31,400
everybody's orbit and place in 
space. 

1309
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:38,200
I love that. 
Yeah, that's beautiful. 

1310
01:23:41,700 --> 01:23:46,800
Well, before we end I would love
to first of all, just know if 

1311
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:50,500
there are any ways that 
listeners can connect with you 

1312
01:23:50,500 --> 01:23:53,000
or that you'd like to invite 
people to connect with you in 

1313
01:23:53,000 --> 01:24:00,400
the in the near future. 
Yeah, so my website is Michelle,

1314
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:04,800
see Johnson.com and it's the 
best place to see what's going 

1315
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:07,600
on and connect. 
If you want to practice with me 

1316
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:11,100
or being Community with me. 
I have a lot of different 

1317
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:16,800
offerings there and I also offer
intuitive readings in an 

1318
01:24:17,500 --> 01:24:19,900
intuitive healing sessions in 
akashic readings. 

1319
01:24:19,900 --> 01:24:26,700
So there's information there. 
I'm really I love I'm offering 

1320
01:24:26,700 --> 01:24:30,300
akashic readings and being in 
that space, like, one of my new 

1321
01:24:30,300 --> 01:24:34,600
favorite things to do and I got 
a lot of information from it 

1322
01:24:34,900 --> 01:24:37,500
from opening in that way. 
So there are a lot of different 

1323
01:24:37,500 --> 01:24:41,100
ways to connect that you can, 
you can find through the 

1324
01:24:41,100 --> 01:24:45,400
website. 
And then I'm on social media 

1325
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:49,200
skill in action where a lot of 
my different events are, but 

1326
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:52,300
also my own things for my life 
and things I want to share and 

1327
01:24:52,300 --> 01:24:55,000
things I'm feeling, and what's 
going on with me for the day. 

1328
01:24:55,100 --> 01:24:58,300
Say that kind of thing and 
through the website, people can 

1329
01:24:58,300 --> 01:25:03,100
email me as well if they want to
connect that way, so. there are 

1330
01:25:03,100 --> 01:25:08,100
lots of lots of ways and 
workshops and Community. 

1331
01:25:08,100 --> 01:25:11,100
Gatherings, and I want to offer 
more grief circles. 

1332
01:25:11,100 --> 01:25:14,800
I'm talking with a colleague 
right now about about doing 

1333
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,800
that. 
So people can stay tuned about 

1334
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:19,300
that. 
Great. 

1335
01:25:19,700 --> 01:25:26,000
Well, I'll list all of those 
sites and access to your books 

1336
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:30,500
and Instagram and social media 
Handles in the show notes, and 

1337
01:25:30,500 --> 01:25:34,400
I'm wondering if you would be 
willing to help us close this 

1338
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:39,200
space. 
By Leading me and and you and 

1339
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:44,400
then any of the listeners in the
future time and space into a 

1340
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:48,900
mindfulness practice. 
Yes, I would love to and I think

1341
01:25:48,900 --> 01:25:54,300
I'm going to lead the one about 
the heart or something about the

1342
01:25:54,300 --> 01:25:56,000
heart given how much we talked 
about it. 

1343
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:04,000
So I will invite people to find 
a way to be and you can decide 

1344
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:10,300
if you want to be seated or On 
your back or side or belly or 

1345
01:26:10,300 --> 01:26:14,200
however you want to be and I 
invite you to move into a 

1346
01:26:15,300 --> 01:26:21,500
posture. 
And a posture that would feel 

1347
01:26:21,500 --> 01:26:24,900
good and your body right now 
where you can feel good in your 

1348
01:26:24,900 --> 01:26:28,800
body. 
If that's possible. 

1349
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:39,800
And you can have your eyes 
closed or open for this practice

1350
01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:42,900
and your hands can rest wherever
feels comfortable. 

1351
01:26:58,300 --> 01:27:02,200
And I invite you to bring your 
awareness and attention to the 

1352
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:19,000
breath. 
Then began to feel your inhales 

1353
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:36,100
and exhale. 
And as you come into the body 

1354
01:27:36,100 --> 01:27:40,800
and feel the breath, your 
inhales and exhales, you might 

1355
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:46,400
begin to deepen your breath. 
This experience of breathing. 

1356
01:27:47,100 --> 01:28:05,000
The body is breathing. 
And you might even notice. 

1357
01:28:06,500 --> 01:28:12,800
The shape change in your body. 
As you inhale and exhale. 

1358
01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:29,200
And notice the shape the body. 
Mix as you find the space 

1359
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:36,600
between your inhale and exhale. 
Exhale and next in breath. 

1360
01:29:04,700 --> 01:29:09,300
And now, as you breathe here. 
My body. 

1361
01:29:09,900 --> 01:29:14,000
I invite you to bring your 
awareness to your heart space. 

1362
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:17,000
This might mean bringing your 
attention. 

1363
01:29:18,700 --> 01:29:22,000
To the heart, turning your 
attention toward the heart, or 

1364
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:25,300
it might mean placing a hand on 
your heart. 

1365
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:32,100
We're both hands on your heart, 
you decide. 

1366
01:29:47,300 --> 01:29:49,500
Take a moment here to bring me 
then. 

1367
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:54,600
Since the heart, touch Into the 
Heart. 

1368
01:29:56,600 --> 01:30:02,500
As an organ. 
Sounds of space. 

1369
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:09,100
Feel the hearts. 
Energy & beat. 

1370
01:30:14,300 --> 01:30:17,500
You might even feel the space 
around your heart. 

1371
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:35,200
And notice what is present tier 
as you connect? 

1372
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:50,200
With your heart. 
Perhaps to Greta motions. 

1373
01:30:52,100 --> 01:30:59,300
Are present here or Sensations? 
Come into the heart space. 

1374
01:31:21,100 --> 01:31:25,900
If you would like to work with 
the Mantra statement that's 

1375
01:31:25,900 --> 01:31:32,000
offered and finding Refuge. 
With this meditation, it is. 

1376
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:36,400
I acknowledge my heart. 
I acknowledge my heartbeat. 

1377
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,600
I feel my heart. 
I feel my heartbeat. 

1378
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:48,700
The knowledge and you have a 
heart and your heart is beating 

1379
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:52,900
and feeling into the heart and 
feeling the heartbeat. 

1380
01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:58,700
You can repeat this to yourself 
if you like. 

1381
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,900
I acknowledge my heart dying 
knowledge, my heartbeat. 

1382
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:09,000
I feel my heart. 
I feel my heartbeat. 

1383
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:56,700
Then you can stay here with your
heart. 

1384
01:32:57,100 --> 01:33:07,600
There's long as you. like, and 
when you feel ready, too. 

1385
01:33:09,900 --> 01:33:13,700
Out of the meditation. 
I invite you to stay with the 

1386
01:33:13,700 --> 01:33:17,900
heart. 
To come back and cheer space. 

1387
01:33:19,900 --> 01:33:23,400
Perhaps taking a moment to 
Blink, open your eyes if they're

1388
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:29,500
closed. 
To reorient in your space as you

1389
01:33:29,500 --> 01:33:33,500
feel your heart. 
Maybe noticing. 

1390
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:42,400
The colors shapes items living 
beings in your space or even 

1391
01:33:42,700 --> 01:33:46,900
physically grounding touching 
the body or connecting some part

1392
01:33:46,900 --> 01:34:00,300
of the body to the ground. 
Thank you for. 

1393
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:08,500
Inviting me to Lena practice. 
Thank you so much, Michelle. 

1394
01:34:09,100 --> 01:34:11,500
Thank you for that practice. 
And thank you for being here. 

1395
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,100
Thank you for being here and 
being you. 

1396
01:34:15,100 --> 01:34:21,500
And Being all the things you are
and her doing what you do. 

1397
01:34:21,500 --> 01:34:25,100
Thank you for being here with me
today and being in conversation 

1398
01:34:25,100 --> 01:34:27,900
and Community young. 
It's a pleasure. 

1399
01:34:28,500 --> 01:34:33,600
It's been wonderful to know you 
for a couple of years now, and I

1400
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:35,300
feel really inspired by your 
work. 

1401
01:34:35,900 --> 01:34:36,900
Yeah. 
Thank you. 

1402
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:42,600
For more information on 
Michelle, please. 

1403
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:47,100
Visit Michelle, see Johnson.com.
If you've enjoyed this episode, 

1404
01:34:47,100 --> 01:34:49,000
please share it with your 
friends and networks. 

1405
01:34:49,300 --> 01:34:51,400
You can find more guests 
episodes at embodied. 

1406
01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:53,900
Astrology.com in the listen 
section. 

1407
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:57,500
Get your free monthly horoscopes
and stay tuned in with the 

1408
01:34:57,500 --> 01:35:00,300
Earth's skies and planets by 
signing up for one of embodied. 

1409
01:35:00,300 --> 01:35:03,700
Astrology's membership. 
Tears, find more information at 

1410
01:35:03,700 --> 01:34:41,600
embodied, astrology.com /join. 
For more information on 

1411
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:45,000
Michelle, please. 
Visit Michelle, see Johnson.com.

1412
01:34:45,700 --> 01:34:47,900
If you've enjoyed this episode, 
please share it with your 

1413
01:34:47,900 --> 01:34:50,300
friends and networks. 
You can find more guests 

1414
01:34:50,300 --> 01:34:53,300
episodes at embodied. 
Astrology.com in the listen 

1415
01:34:53,300 --> 01:34:56,300
section. 
Get your free monthly horoscopes

1416
01:34:56,300 --> 01:34:59,000
and stay tuned in with the 
Earth's skies and planets by 

1417
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:01,400
signing up for one of embodied. 
Astrology's membership. 

1418
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:07,100
Tears, find more information at 
embodied, astrology.com /join.