1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,280 Haley's going to move on. She's going to do other artistic 2 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:06,680 projects, and they're going to get better and better as her 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,000 life goes on in general, and she's going to get into all 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,200 aspects of stuff. But this project, well, it's 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,000 dear to my heart. Someone coming around and doing 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,880 a film. And how many documentaries have 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,960 you seen in astrology? You'll always see a National 8 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,240 Geographic Wildlife Special, but no astrologers in the wild. 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:31,160 We haven't had any kind of media attention outside of the most 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,120 tabloid, superficial stuff, you know, a syndicated column in the 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,720 newspapers, an occasional astrologer who would get on the 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,920 radio. Right now, we're in the Era 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,360 podcast. You could actually have the 14 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,880 following. But in our age, no, it was 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,880 always the laugh track. There was never anything serious 16 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,600 going on. So Haley's water in the desert. 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,400 Can somebody come in camera and they're going to record the 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,600 things that are dear to your heart and your profession? 19 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,040 Hey, it gets all the support we possibly can give it. 20 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,840 So I look at the work from not as Haley's artistic expression, 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:14,800 but as literally a documentary of an era that will pass, you 22 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,960 know? And it isn't just us old farts 23 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:19,080 dropping dead or anything like that. 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,040 It's the idea that astrology never got developed, and it is 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,240 going to be developed, that's the thing. 26 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,280 And when astrology starts getting developed, it's not 27 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,640 going to look anything like what we've learned in our lifetimes. 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:38,200 Paley's documentary might be the last of an old worldview of the 29 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,400 way we actually practiced, of the way we actually conducted 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:02:01,840 our lives. Hello and welcome to Embodied 31 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,520 Astrology, a podcast. And Learning Community, where we 32 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,640 explore the growing edges of astrology and its intersections 33 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,800 with healing, arts, activism, relationships and personal 34 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,480 growth. This month's special episode is 35 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:14,920 coming out with a Taurus New Moon. 36 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:18,720 Taurus is one of the signs most often associated with money and 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,960 wealth. It's also a sign that for the 38 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,720 last eight years has hosted the outer planet Uranus. 39 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,640 Earlier this season, Uranus left Taurus and moved into Gemini, 40 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:29,520 where it will now stay for the next 7 years. 41 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,240 Uranium energy brings upsets, innovations and awakening 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,360 wherever it goes. While Uranus was in Taurus, 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,800 economies were disrupted for all kinds of reasons. 44 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,880 And as Uranus goes into Gemini, a sign associated with 45 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,560 currencies and exchange, we can definitely expect to see even 46 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,160 more volatility and unpredictability in the markets. 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,320 In this episode, I interviewed director Haley Gorigas and the 48 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,640 astrologer and founder of Astrolabe, Gary Christian about 49 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:58,320 Star Cash, their recently released documentary on 50 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,960 financial astrology. Our conversation was intriguing 51 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,800 and broad scoped. We spoke about the reputation of 52 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,240 astrology across time, speculated on possible futures 53 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,440 for both astrology and the financial market following the 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,920 recent Jupiter, Saturn conjunction and the movement of 55 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:17,520 Pluto and Uranus from Earth to air science, and Gary and Haley 56 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,480 shared their hopes and intentions for the release of 57 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,760 this film. If you're interested in watching 58 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,880 their documentary, you can find it now at the Star Cash website, 59 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,680 LinkedIn our show notes, and keep an eye out for its premiere 60 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:28,840 on streaming. Sites soon. 61 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,920 OK, Why don't you start with the same question that you just 62 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,080 started with? Talking about our the various 63 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,560 backgrounds, why am I running with Haley on this documentary 64 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,960 and stuff? Haley could have chosen any of 65 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,040 the other folks that were in the movie to run with it. 66 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:56,120 Well, because Haley and I got along really well and she feels 67 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,640 comfortable with me. But myself, my personal 68 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:06,320 background is I am the principal for Solar Fire, which is a large 69 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,400 piece of software that's out there, Astro World. 70 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,960 So they've been utilizing me as a front person for astrology in 71 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,640 general. Is that correct? 72 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,040 Haley, would you go along with that it? 73 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:22,040 Is extremely correct. And also I'm not an astrologer 74 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,760 and so there's a filmmaker interested in astrology and 75 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,960 probably maybe know more about astrology than maybe like the 76 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,440 layperson just through the process. 77 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:37,360 I think it would be remiss of me to talk about the film and talk 78 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,480 about astrology with, you know, the knowledge base that I have. 79 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,240 You know, as you were talking, I just pulled your sinistry, Haley 80 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,040 and Gary, just to look at your chart together, which I imagine 81 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,040 you probably have done as well. And yeah, I just, I see so many 82 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,600 contacts that feel like deep resonance. 83 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,720 Haley's Jupiter is conjunct with Gary's Moon and Haley's Mercury 84 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,280 is on Gary's ascendant and her part of fortune is conjunct his 85 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:09,320 venous Uranus conjunction and Cancer. 86 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,960 And I see a a Pluto sun opposition, Haley's Pluto 87 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:19,560 opposing Gary's sun and and Mars and Venus sextile together her 88 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,120 moon on his mid heavens. So, you know, there's a lot of 89 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:27,120 contacts in your relationship that feel like you were destined 90 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,920 to find each other maybe on on some level before we even start 91 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,640 to talk about, you know, the film as its own kind of entity 92 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,120 or project. I wonder if each of you might 93 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,720 talk a little bit about what it's been like to know each 94 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,560 other and and be in relationship. 95 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,680 And maybe Gary, would you start? What was your first encounter 96 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,280 with Haley like, and what's it been like in the time that 97 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:51,440 you've known her? Well, she cold called me and 98 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,400 said basically that she's going to be in the area and that could 99 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,840 she come by and start to film, you know, that she was going to 100 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:01,560 be picking up materials. There was no real rhyme or 101 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,800 reason basically, but she ran around with a camera all the 102 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,720 time that she visited Astrolabe and then various times was 103 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,320 coming back. She started six years ago on 104 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,840 this thing. You know, I've changed during 105 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:19,520 the course in the filming. I got a lot older, but basically 106 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:27,080 she went through the field as it was as old astrologers had our 107 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,720 own particular world going on and then this world came upon 108 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,200 us. You know, it's this big interest 109 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,880 in astrology began to to focus. I felt that Haley running around 110 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,280 with her camera and stuff was capturing a world that will 111 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:45,280 change, that will go away, you know. 112 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:51,440 So from my perspective, it's great to see that particular 113 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,400 point of view, that knowledge and everything else codified. 114 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,280 She, within the film itself, she starts talking about financial 115 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:04,440 astrology in general and it's an interesting segue. 116 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,840 In other words, she's filming us old astrologers and this and 117 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:09,440 that. Finding out what actually 118 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,880 constitutes authentic astrology with as it's practiced and then 119 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,360 segueing into, well, how are people practically working with 120 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,920 it? Which is why the 1st place we 121 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,880 begin to filter to is to look at the financial astrologers. 122 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,600 We'll look at people in general and see what role astrology 123 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,600 plays and their movements in the market. 124 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,280 Now, this is something that all of us in the field have 125 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,560 considered that the idea that business people, people that 126 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,240 work in the markets, they're really pragmatic. 127 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,320 They don't care where things are derived. 128 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:50,000 They don't have an ethical base with which to make their 129 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,160 decisions. Their decisions are made on 130 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,080 whether it's going to work and make them money and that sort of 131 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,440 stuff. Watching her roll that in was 132 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,600 something I wasn't even aware of while she was filming it, you 133 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:03,120 know? Oh wow. 134 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,880 Yeah. So Haley, when you started this 135 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,080 project, were you intending to make a documentary about 136 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,840 financial astrology or were you really just kind of asking 137 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,800 deeper questions about what is astrology? 138 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:20,840 I started wanting to just make a film about astrology and then as 139 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:27,240 I got deeper into it, it proved very difficult to create like a 140 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:32,520 coherent strand of thoughts about just astrology because 141 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,880 astrology is not a monolith. In the same way in the film, we 142 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,240 say the market is not a monolith and there are so many different 143 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,320 subfields, personalities. Everyone, you know, everyone 144 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,840 thinks kind of is. Another line from the film, Gary 145 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,360 says this. Everyone thinks what they're 146 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,280 doing is the best thing in the world. 147 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,840 So yeah, it became difficult because I always. 148 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,080 I wondered, you know, my background is in like on the 149 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,560 industry side in film and development and, and sales of 150 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:02,920 documentaries. And I wondered why there weren't 151 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,360 more documentaries about astrology because it's such a 152 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,760 popular subject. There's so many people into 153 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,480 astrology. You would think, wow, there 154 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,800 should be kind of like the movie about astrology and there isn't. 155 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,160 And that's not because people haven't tried. 156 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,000 You know, Netflix has tried, Hulu has tried. 157 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,520 They've all tried. And what I found is that you 158 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,400 either make something for astrologers, which then goes way 159 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,320 over people's heads who are not astrologers, or you make 160 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,520 something incredibly poppy and surface level. 161 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,200 And so I was like, how can I maybe bridge these worlds? 162 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,200 And then I realized that when I would talk to people who didn't 163 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,840 know anything about astrology, when you told them that you 164 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,280 could use astrology to time financial markets, that is what 165 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,200 paying their interest. You know, they didn't care about 166 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,640 a film about astrology. They were like, oh, really? 167 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,960 You can do that with astrology. And so I realized that was my 168 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:07,200 end to potentially broaden the demographics who would watch the 169 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,160 film and be interested in the film outside of just people who 170 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,200 are, you know, fans of astrology or who use astrology. 171 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,200 Huh. I I want to come back to that in 172 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,360 a second. But before I do, how did you 173 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,480 find Gary and what drew you to him? 174 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,680 As you know, this first point of contact with astrologers. 175 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:31,520 I found his name through the community of astrologers and 176 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,360 obviously Astrolabe. And at first, I was maybe going 177 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:40,400 to, you know, early iteration of the film was I was going to go 178 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,680 to different astrology schools and astrology based companies. 179 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,520 And that was very early on. And yeah, Gary was just in that, 180 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,960 in that community. So just luck, yeah. 181 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:57,680 Your your personal planet contacts must have, yeah. 182 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,400 Totally. Compelled you? 183 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,640 So a moment ago you said when you told people that astrology 184 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,000 could help predict the markets, then something pinged for them 185 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,400 and then they became interested? Yes. 186 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,920 And in the description of Star Cache of your film, it says the 187 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,880 film reveals how our obsession with controlling the future 188 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,920 through market predictions and horoscopes alike disconnects us 189 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,640 from an ancient wisdom about cycles and our place in the 190 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,160 cosmos. In seeking certainty, have we 191 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,280 lost something more profound about what it means to be part 192 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,800 of the universe? And more importantly, does it 193 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,880 work? I'm kind of curious about those 194 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,440 last two sentences. You know what's what's more 195 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,760 important about whether or not astrology works for predicting 196 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,880 the markets versus Have we lost something profound about what it 197 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,960 means to be part of the universe? 198 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,640 I think they're both important. They're all really interplayed. 199 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,600 Does it work? Just speaks to people needing 200 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,240 to, you know, have an understanding of how the world 201 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,680 works, right? Unfortunately, we do live in a 202 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:10,160 time where we are materialists. And I'm not talking about money. 203 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,160 I'm just talking about, you know, people need to understand 204 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,720 the material of things. And so I think one of the 205 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,800 reasons we've lost our place and the broader fabric of the 206 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:27,320 universe is because of this needing to know how things work. 207 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,320 So it's a little cheeky sentence play. 208 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,600 Yeah, no, as you were talking, I can feel how within modernity, 209 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,000 in the world that we live in, there's such an illusion of 210 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,720 control. And then when people find out 211 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,520 that, oh, something works and it's bigger than me and it has 212 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,960 this much larger intelligence behind it, there can be a sense 213 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,160 of awe and attraction and and curiosity and personal 214 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,720 expansion. And then there can also be this 215 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,200 way of approaching it that is also extractive. 216 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,520 Like I'm going to figure out how to use that for my own. 217 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,400 Gain, yeah. And and I will say I think not 218 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:05,240 all, but a lot of people interested in astrology really, 219 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,720 from what my observation go into it because they're interested in 220 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,440 themselves. And so whether or not there's a 221 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,760 breakthrough beyond the South, once you get deeper into 222 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:23,760 astrology is really just based on the individual, you know, and 223 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,000 whether or not people then see that, oh, there is, you know, 224 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,560 yeah, something bigger than than yourself. 225 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,560 And it's, it's funny because I think, you know, when astrology 226 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:37,120 was really popular and just part of the, you know, fabric of 227 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,120 everyday life in antiquity, you didn't really have atheists, 228 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,320 right, or people that didn't believe in some greater divine 229 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,800 power. And so it's sort of because of 230 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:53,080 that, I think people were able to approach astrology or see 231 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,440 astrology is just a fact of nature because it was a system 232 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,160 beyond themselves. And there already was this 233 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,360 belief that God's things outside of themselves bigger than 234 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,040 themselves. So believing quote UN quote in 235 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,560 astrology was sort of, you know, commonplace. 236 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:13,480 It just of course, right there are things we don't understand. 237 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:17,920 And so I think it's a lot harder for people in modernity to 238 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,720 believe in something like astrology because it is harder 239 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,800 for people in eternity to believe in something bigger than 240 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,960 themselves. So then the same scrutiny that, 241 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,600 let's say religion gets now, or the idea of God or something 242 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,280 bigger things like astrology get, because they're two sides 243 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:37,800 of the same coin in a lot of ways. 244 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,560 Like it takes faith to some degree, right? 245 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,560 You ask any skeptic of astrology, and I've encountered 246 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:48,760 a lot and they're just like, yeah, but how does this work? 247 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,440 Or why would this work? And oh, it's just placebo effect 248 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,280 or it's confirmation bias. You know, you read this about a 249 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,960 Leo and you know, I'm a Virgo, but I can relate to the the Leo 250 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,360 characteristics. You know, there's always like 251 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,120 the gotcha moment. It's really hard for the modern 252 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,880 mind to comprehend something that is like truly divorced of 253 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,120 material reason. Yeah, I, I'm curious about that 254 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,680 from your perspective. I know that you in your bio, it 255 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,600 says you grew up in Los Angeles and you went to 12 years of 256 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,080 Catholic school, which is part of what you credit with shaping 257 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,520 an ongoing fascination and questions about belief in blind 258 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,600 faith. And then your first feature 259 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,840 documentary, you're examining digital mythology. 260 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,600 Is that correct? Yeah. 261 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:38,760 Yeah. And then I'm looking at your 262 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,080 chart. I have your chart up and you're 263 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,200 a Gemini, son. That's a focal point to a yard 264 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,240 with Pluto and Scorpio and then Neptune, Uranus conjunct. 265 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,760 All of the outer planets are retrograde in Capricorn. 266 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,600 And that feels to me like you have a kind of direct, deeply 267 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,440 embodied, lived experience of understanding how stories shape 268 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,640 the world and probably a perspective on the stories that 269 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,040 people are telling that, you know, is this kind of Gemini 270 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,080 side eye a little bit sometimes, you know, where you're like, OK, 271 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,560 that's the story you're telling. And I'm sure that even, you 272 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,280 know, dealing with astrology skeptics or atheists or 273 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,800 something like that, you're also able to see that people have the 274 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,520 stories that they're still attached to. 275 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,880 I mean, nobody's absolutely. You're a storyteller, and your 276 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,360 work with filmmaking is also to tell stories into culture. 277 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,800 I'm wondering, you know, what do you feel is the ultimate power 278 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,400 of a story? Like what does it do to the 279 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,880 human consciousness and what's its function? 280 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:47,200 Big question for me, I think it's there's two strands and I 281 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:52,200 think they work together, which is I think a good story lets you 282 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:58,360 escape yourself. But paradoxically, I do think in 283 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,160 escaping yourself through that story, you actually arrive at 284 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,160 truths about yourself that you will relate to. 285 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,200 But I think the function of, like, hearing a story that takes 286 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,040 you out of yourself is actually the thing that brings you closer 287 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,480 to something in your own life that you may not have seen if 288 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,480 you weren't taken to this place where there's like, an eagle eye 289 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,440 view. And it's, you know, Hollywood's 290 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,880 very Neptunian, right? So what is like the LA chart, 291 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,320 Gary? Do you know it's like you 292 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,160 haven't? Looked at it in a long time, but 293 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,040 yes, you're correct about the Neptunian influences everywhere, 294 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,200 yes. And so there's like, yeah, 295 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,240 there's escapism, but in that escapism, I mean, it's like you 296 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,280 think of Neptune, I think of dreams. 297 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,680 And I think there's nothing better than a dream revealing 298 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,720 something within yourself that your conscious mind can't 299 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,240 totally comprehend. So I think escapism is important 300 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:05,000 in understanding your own story. Yeah, agreed. 301 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,560 Thank you for that. Gary, I'm curious about you and 302 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,240 your bio. On the Astrolabe website, it 303 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,160 says that you've been an astrologer since you're a 304 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,560 teenager. You're one of the very few 305 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,440 people to be awarded ABA degree with an interdisciplinary major 306 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,040 in astrology, and you've been practicing now since 1969. 307 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,280 What got you into astrology? You know, were you there also 308 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,200 trying to understand yourself like Haley was just talking 309 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,680 about? A lot of people come to it with. 310 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,840 Actually, not at all. It looks like it was one of 311 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,280 those things that it was kind of destined for me as a child. 312 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:45,040 One of the first organizations I belong to was a club called the 313 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:50,440 Junior Astronautical Society. I ground a telescope when I was 314 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,520 12 years old, an 8 inch telescope. 315 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,040 So at that time we would watch movies of rockets blowing up and 316 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,200 that sort of stuff was basically supported by NASA. 317 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:08,240 And, and as I got older at Woolworth's were the weighing 318 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,880 machines that had the little scrolls for the sun signs, you 319 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,240 know, that would come with your weight. 320 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,200 I don't know if you've ever seen one of those, but they were 321 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,880 actually pretty interesting. And our local columnist in the 322 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,400 newspaper was Sidney Omar. Sidney Omar, for a public 323 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,280 astrologer, was very good because he would track the moon 324 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,480 phases. It would get everybody aware of 325 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,000 what astrological combinations were working. 326 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,840 So his column was half, here's what's going on in the sky and 327 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,840 half, oh, sunshine, astrology, here's what we're going to do, 328 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:45,920 you know, but really fast. By the time I was 17, I was 329 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,680 going to school in New York. I was going to School of Visual 330 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,480 Arts and learning film. And I had a teacher that 331 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,920 basically was using astrological material as an excuse within the 332 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,720 class and I confronted with it. Because he told me one day that, 333 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,960 well, we're going to have a day off because Saturn is going into 334 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,800 Taurus and I'm an Aries. I'm really happy now. 335 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,760 And I said, what's that all about? 336 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,320 So I ran down to the New York Astrology Center on 7th St. in 337 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,520 New York City, which had basically just opened up. 338 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,760 And at the time they sold me $120.00 worth of books, which in 339 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,840 1967 was a lot of a lot of money. 340 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,640 But I went home and began to work with horoscopes. 341 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,040 I began to teach myself how to how to cast a chart and began to 342 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,720 look at the charts and look at my friends and begin to see them 343 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,680 as one and the same. So I went back to the New York 344 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,920 Astrology Center and began to volunteer and worked with them 345 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,920 for a number of years until I went to college, then used them 346 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:53,560 as a base to get my degree, and then after college worked there 347 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,880 for several years until Rob Hand and myself started Astro 348 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,960 Astrographic Services, which became Astrolabe. 349 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,160 So we introduced the idea of computerized astrology into the 350 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,640 world. Our only competitor at the time 351 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,480 was Michael Erlewine at Matrix. You know, we were the early, we 352 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,240 were the characters. We were all students of Neil 353 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,680 Mickelson who started Astro Computing Services, which was 354 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,080 the 1st service organization for astrologers. 355 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,800 It's from there that things like the time zone corrections began 356 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,160 to get recorded. You know, astrologers were the 357 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,560 only people concerned with time zone changes. 358 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,600 And we realized that whatever it was we were going to program was 359 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,880 what people were going to copy going forward. 360 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,920 You know, so you know that, hey, if somebody writes a piece of 361 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,320 code now, what are they going to compare their code to? 362 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,040 Are they going to go back to the original books, recreate 363 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,800 everything like an alchemical laboratory and, and, and make 364 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,160 all the calculations correct? No, they're going to go back and 365 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,280 check it against early software that was developed. 366 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,760 So we knew we had to get it right, and we did. 367 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:09,600 But the idea was really this was that astrology by 19901995 had 368 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,840 gotten fairly inauthentic. A lot of folks were basically 369 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,760 doing material that had no basis or background. 370 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,240 Meanwhile, astrology itself had gotten one of the most important 371 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,880 things to, to, to promote it, and that was the Gauckland 372 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,120 material. You know, the, the Gulk lawns. 373 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:35,040 You have to really understand that the Gulk lawns, what they 374 00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:40,400 really did was establish that it's incontrovertible that what 375 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,880 goes on in the sky is going to affect life on Earth. 376 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,280 Particularly the idea of what humans choose in their life on 377 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,560 Earth gives the idea of that. This idea of destiny becomes 378 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,200 very important, right? Because what the Gaul Claws 379 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,120 tested on was what you chose as a profession. 380 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,000 And this is something that you think you choose well. 381 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,760 But how would it be locked up in the sky as a sure thing? 382 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,720 2 million to one. Now, the Gaul Claws were 383 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,320 attacked several times. They were attacked by a Belgian 384 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,680 group. Finally, they were on the front 385 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,360 page of the New York Times since 1976. 386 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:21,400 They were attacked by 186 Nobel Prize winning scientists saying 387 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,520 astrology is magical thinking and and going to destroy our 388 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,200 society. Front page, 3 columns, 3 389 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,080 headlines. They only say serve that thing 390 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,280 for war. And of course, when they went, 391 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:39,320 when they were hip to the idea that, hey, this guy's called 392 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,560 Kwan and his wife put together a proof of astrology, we'll throw 393 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,840 that out the window. And the guy hired a guy named 394 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,040 Dennis Rollins to do the conductor research. 395 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,280 And Rollins concluded the gulf bonds were absolutely correct. 396 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:58,040 There was not a thing wrong with their study. 397 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,560 So the guys that were doing it was a committee for the 398 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,120 investigation of the paranormal, a very well funded group of 399 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,320 people. Well, they tried to fudge the 400 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,440 data. They changed the data, they 401 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,800 changed the conditions of the data. 402 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,680 And Dennis Rollins blew the whistle and vindicated the 403 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,760 Gauklands. You know, these guys had to go 404 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,000 with their tail between their legs. 405 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,400 Did you know they had a press conference at the Waldorf 406 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,240 Astoria that the public was barred from and the press was 407 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,440 barred from where they made their announcement that they had 408 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,520 completely delegitimatized their careers by doing a bad stunt. 409 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,600 So we have this behind us. We have to understand that we 410 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,960 are legitimate in all of our work. 411 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,480 The thing is, we have no discipline. 412 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,200 We missed out on the Industrial Revolution, right, Which 413 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,120 elevated chemistry elevated. We're more like medical people. 414 00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,960 We're a craft. Astrology is a very finicky 415 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,800 subject. We only survived because they 416 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,840 only had two points of view at the time. 417 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,960 The Catholics really were wary of us. 418 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,440 Guys like Saint Augustine would run around and say basically 419 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,080 that astrology determines your free will, therefore it's not 420 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,760 God's will. God wants, God has put us on 421 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,080 this planet to, in order to determine what we're going to do 422 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,040 with our souls. But then guys like Thomas 423 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,160 Aquinas came along, Saint Thomas of Aquinas, and he would say, 424 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,600 wait a second, if God did not want us to know our destiny, why 425 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,440 did he give us the heavens? Why would he show us his works 426 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,520 every single night and put it on display for everybody to see? 427 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,200 And, and, and the Catholics had a hard time with this. 428 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,160 And when Gutenberg's press happens, the first book he 429 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:59,320 prints is the Bible. In the Bible, there's no Pope, 430 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,960 there's no indulgences. And we start the Protestant 431 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,680 Revolution. Now, in the middle of that 432 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,440 Protestant Revolution, astrology still poking along. 433 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,920 We're basically at the center of the sciences. 434 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,960 We're doing things in medical world, right? 435 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,160 If you go to Oxford, you have to study astrology before you can 436 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,960 do anything like build a bridge or something like that. 437 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,520 We were in the center of the sciences, but science wasn't 438 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,240 very important in Renaissance times until the libertarians 439 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,560 came along. So astrology was in a funny 440 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,240 place. You had a big revolution going 441 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,440 on in the religions and then you have the astrologers and the 442 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,640 astrologers take over the press. The first book was the Bible, 443 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,760 the second book was an astrological Almanac. 444 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,640 And the people didn't read. The almanacs were pictures. 445 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:54,400 Well, in 1665 William Lilly publishes an Almanac with a 446 00:26:54,400 --> 00:27:00,040 picture of London on fire. And in 1666 London obliged and 447 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,560 burnt to the ground. Well, you have to understand 448 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,120 that the people start trusting the astrologers a lot more than 449 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,440 the Anglican Church. And the Anglican Church wasn't 450 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,600 too happy about that. So they went to the nascent 451 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,280 scientists and said, can you get this thing off our back? 452 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,560 That's the fall of astrology. Yes, May. 453 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:26,080 I interject. No, I just, it's funny, 'cause 454 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,080 it is true. Like I feel like you know, your 455 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,480 background, you were in so many ways and which is why I love you 456 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,400 in the film and like you as a as a character is because you have 457 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,720 this like perspective and history with astrology that is 458 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,280 at this point, like astrological history, right? 459 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,400 Like you are part of the real, like modern history of 460 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,240 astrology. So I just found it humorous 461 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,960 because like, I know you, but when you talk about yourself and 462 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:03,640 your bio, you can't help but also weave in the larger history 463 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,560 of astrology into how you see the field, which a lot of people 464 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,440 can't say. So I just wanted to put that in 465 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,960 there. One of the virtues is I did live 466 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,280 the astrological life. A vow of poverty. 467 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,080 A vow of poverty at age 17. You know, the and not even 468 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,720 realizing this is what I was going to do. 469 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,560 I mean, I got the degree and all this other stuff. 470 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,560 I thought I would work in the parks and I'd play with 471 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,000 astrology at night and have a few clients and, you know, 472 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,240 follow my my muse. But as it turned out, I had a 473 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,720 career path from the astrology, unlike well of my peers and 474 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,480 stuff. I've earned a Czech in astrology 475 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,400 my entire career. I've always been employed by 476 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,240 astrological organizations, either New York astrology guys 477 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,080 or putting something together like astrolabe. 478 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,720 I worked as a corporate astrologer for a number of years 479 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,440 in New York City for a steel company. 480 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,960 I was the staff astrologer. I had to fire people and fire 481 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,440 people, tell them when to send the barges down the river, you 482 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,600 know, when to make the sales and all that stuff. 483 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,240 So it was always a situation where I got paid as a 484 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,160 professional, you know, and my peers around me all had to 485 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,120 struggle. They really did. 486 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,840 It was a, it was a tough life, you know, this 'cause you got to 487 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,480 realize people just don't go to a, they might today somewhat, 488 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,760 but they didn't just go to an astrologer. 489 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:36,480 First off, by the time somebody with a real problem came to the 490 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,120 astrologer, they, they've gone through to everybody. 491 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,080 They've gone to all the doctors, they've gone to all the help 492 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,360 people, they've gone to all the lawyers or whatever it is that's 493 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,000 going on. And the astrologer is really the 494 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,600 last guy on on the totem pole. And this is the situation where 495 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,280 you would, you would drop everything, you'd stop 496 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,080 everything. And you'd have to start working 497 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,000 on these these people's charts because they were the desperate, 498 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,640 you know, So as an astrologer, you saw the curious and the 499 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,960 desperate. There aren't a lot of desperate 500 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,000 people out there. So most of the time you're 501 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,800 making your money as a practitioner with the social 502 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,120 circles you're moving in, the curious folks that you're 503 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,080 dealing with, that sort of stuff. 504 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,600 You know, where are you moving with with the astrology today in 505 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,480 the field that we really should be building is 1, where the 506 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,760 counseling experience of astrology is a very important 507 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,960 thing to people. You know, everybody remembers 508 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,400 the first reading. You know, it's important for the 509 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,640 astrologer to record that reading for the client because 510 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,320 we know that five years later they're going to come looking 511 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,720 back for it and picking it up. What did he say? 512 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,240 Oh my God, all these things came true, you know, and this is one 513 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,680 of the things that makes the field so wonderful. 514 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,480 Can I, can I pause this for a moment? 515 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,360 Because you've said so many things and in the time that 516 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,920 you've been talking, I've had like 10 questions come up and 517 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,800 I'm looking at your Venus conjunct with Uranus as the 518 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,480 ruler of your luminaries. And I just feel like you are an 519 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,240 open vessel and an open channel for a lot of information to come 520 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,800 through. And I'm I'm watching you on the 521 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,720 screen and you're rocking back and forth and you've got all 522 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,360 this movement in your body and clearly a lot of movement in 523 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,240 your mind. And a while ago when you were 524 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,360 talking about the Goklans, you were talking about this study 525 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,240 around, you know, vocation and what people chose as career. 526 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,160 And throughout, you know what you've been sharing, one of the 527 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,680 recurring thoughts that's been coming up for me has been around 528 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:51,880 the relationship between the technical craft of astrology and 529 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,720 the intuitive craft of astrology. 530 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,600 Because anybody can read data, but not everybody can make sense 531 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:04,480 of data in meaningful ways. And, and you know, I, I feel 532 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,960 like looking at your chart and hearing your story, that you 533 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,600 were called clearly onto this path, you know, that there was a 534 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,360 larger force that said, OK, there's our guy. 535 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,440 This is the guy that's going to have the mind and the curiosity 536 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,920 and the persistence and dedication to really bring 537 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,800 through the innovation and and kind of the up leveling of a of 538 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,720 a technology that's been in use by humans for thousands and 539 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,600 thousands of years. That's my guess. 540 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,080 You know, and then both of you have kind of talked in different 541 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:40,480 ways about what maybe as astrologers I could I could put 542 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,120 in the framework of a Mercury, Jupiter relationship. 543 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,640 You know, both of you have talked about these big pictures, 544 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,280 right? Like Haley, you were talking 545 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,640 about that and the response to the question I had about story. 546 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,840 And Gary, you've been talking about these big picture, you 547 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,640 know, what are we doing in in the kind of larger sense of this 548 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,400 history? And then both of you are also 549 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,280 people who are really interested in the details of things. 550 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,040 And I see that you have a Jupiter opposition in your 551 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,480 chart. And, you know, I imagine that 552 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,280 each of you might illuminate for each other some details and big 553 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,760 pictures that the other person would find fascinating. 554 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,880 Where am I going with this? I guess, you know, I have a 555 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,600 curiosity based on what you both have shared so far and to bring 556 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,960 us back to the film, what do you both hope the outcome is of this 557 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,080 project and what it's becoming? There's many layers to it. 558 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,880 I think from like a filmmaker perspective, outside of subject, 559 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,880 it is not easy to get people to watch feature length films. 560 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,360 Right? 82 Minutes is actually a short 561 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,480 feature length film, which is the runtime of Star Cash. 562 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:01,400 But if you are not in the ecosystem of a major streamer, 563 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:07,320 so Netflix, Hulu, HBO, etcetera, it's hard to get people to watch 564 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,040 things, right? I think one for convenience, 565 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,520 right? You have subscriptions to all 566 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,080 these things. So if you're sitting in front of 567 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:21,000 ATV and it's a smart TV, you have the apps of where you go to 568 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,120 watch movies. So I'm interested in how do you 569 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,600 let people know that there is a film to watch outside of that 570 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:34,520 ecosystem and get them interested enough to watch it 571 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,679 and evangelize it. Getting as many people outside 572 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:44,120 of that ecosystem to watch the film as possible is #1 573 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,960 importance. It's not even to make money on 574 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,400 the film. It's really just how many people 575 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,760 can we get to watch this outside of a theatrical run? 576 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,000 So there's no theaters involved and it's just digital. 577 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,200 That to me is really interesting. 578 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,520 And then the second side of it is, or the other side of it is, 579 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,320 how do you get people to watch a film about astrology and perhaps 580 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,280 not having been interested in astrology at all, or they just 581 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,800 watched it, put it on, whatever. Could they change their 582 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,360 understanding of the field in general? 583 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,520 So, yeah, those are the two things that I'm interested in. 584 00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:26,520 And then even just, you know, eventually I just want to put it 585 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,360 on YouTube because I'm a big believer in YouTube. 586 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,800 I think YouTube as a filmmaker is a big part of the future and 587 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,960 it is a very democratic way, right? 588 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,160 Like it's you and the audience only the just the platform is 589 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,800 the only mediator between that and you know, you can get 590 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,960 potentially like a bigger audience that way more people 591 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,200 can see it because the algorithm will suggest it. 592 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,480 You know, YouTube has one of the best algorithms outside of 593 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,880 TikTok for suggested content. So I guess like, yeah, my answer 594 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,520 is more like the mechanics of filmmaking and film distribution 595 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,800 in general, because I think it's a big problem because there's so 596 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,400 many films out there that people just don't see because it's 597 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:10,960 they're not on the major streamers. 598 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,680 So yeah. In the documentary, you talked a 599 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,240 little bit about your personal chart and getting readings from 600 00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:22,360 astrologers that would say things like, oh, you have a 601 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,120 drive for success or celebrity, you know, we see this in your 602 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,600 chart or something like that. And in what you're sharing, I'm 603 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,080 hearing a little bit of that as well. 604 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,240 Like there's this kind of orientation towards this 605 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:36,480 distribution. You know, you want people to see 606 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:39,400 this work. I guess as an astrologer, I 607 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,800 always have a question of like, what is the larger influence? 608 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,800 Like what is the bigger story that's happening? 609 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,400 And I'm curious, why is it important for people to have 610 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:54,760 this information about astrology and the correlation potentially 611 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,640 between astrology and markets? What do you hope that that does 612 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:04,440 in the world for consciousness? I think it's seeing kind of 613 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,800 between the lines and watching the film this, you know, might 614 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,920 give it away, but maybe it's interesting to to people who 615 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,440 would watch the film, but it's so much bigger than just, you 616 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:21,480 know, astrology in the markets. I think the real threat is, you 617 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,360 know, the relationships that I built and then also just 618 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,160 astrology as a whole. And so really just like opening 619 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,480 people's minds potentially to things that they had not thought 620 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,320 about when it came to astrology. I think also showing the world 621 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,680 this like specific community in astrology, like the old guard of 622 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,960 astrology in a lot of ways as like information accelerates, 623 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,840 there's more voices in the room. I have, like, a great respect 624 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,560 for age and time and the wisdom that comes with that. 625 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,280 And I think people have less and less of that as like, more 626 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,200 voices enter the enter the stage, which I think is just a 627 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,360 rite of passage. Because even Gary has said at 628 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,600 some point that, you know, when he was young, they all thought 629 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,520 that they were the best and wanted to, you know, break away 630 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,440 from the elders and from that. That was. 631 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:16,680 And so. Yeah. 632 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,160 So just like platforming them. Yeah. 633 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:27,680 I really see that admiration and I'm going to say a word. 634 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,000 I'm not sure you resonate with it, but I would say devotion in 635 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,760 your sinistry with, with Gary, your generational placement of 636 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:40,640 Uranus, Neptune and Capricorn makes a grand trine with his son 637 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,280 Mars and Taurus and Saturn and Virgo. 638 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,800 And it's such a beautiful aspect of a relationship that, you 639 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,440 know, builds a bridge, I think, and, and really helps 640 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,800 generations come together. Gary, I'm I'm curious for you. 641 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,480 So again, this has been 1/4 of a Saturn cycle that you've been 642 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,520 getting to know. Haley, you were one of the main 643 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,280 astrologers featured and interviewed in the film. 644 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,080 And, you know, is that a new experience for you or are you at 645 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,160 this point pretty used to being in the limelight, you know, and, 646 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,840 and how has this experience with Haley changed you and the way 647 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,880 that you interact with astrology? 648 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,480 I've. I've always been large with my 649 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,680 peers, so getting attention from that, that's never been an 650 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:23,320 issue. But the thing with Haley's work 651 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,840 is this. Haley's going to move on. 652 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,480 She's going to do other artistic projects, and they're going to 653 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,680 get better and better as her life goes on in general, and 654 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,680 she's going to get into all aspects of stuff. 655 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,720 But this project, well, it's near to my heart. 656 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,160 Someone coming around and doing a film. 657 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,640 And how many documentaries have you seen in astrology? 658 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,640 You'll always see a National Geographic Wildlife Special, but 659 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,960 no astrologers in the wild. We haven't had any kind of media 660 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,600 attention outside of the most tabloid superficial stuff, you 661 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:03,040 know, a syndicated column in the newspapers, an occasional 662 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,960 astrologer who would get on the radio. 663 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,200 Right now, we're in the era of podcasts. 664 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,520 You could actually have the following, you know, you can 665 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,720 actually do things that that have a lasting effect. 666 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,280 But in our age, no, it was always the laugh track. 667 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,520 There was never anything serious going on so. 668 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,880 Haley's water in the desert. Can somebody come in the camera 669 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,000 and they're going to record the things that are dear to your 670 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,920 heart and your profession? Hey, it gets all the support we 671 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,440 possibly can give it. So I look at the work from not 672 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,680 as Haley's artistic expression, but as literally a documentary 673 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,200 of an era that will pass, you know? 674 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,720 And it isn't just us old farts dropping dead or anything like 675 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:50,240 that. It's the idea that astrology 676 00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:54,400 never got developed. And it is going to be developed, 677 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,480 that's the thing. And when astrology starts 678 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,680 getting developed, it's not going to look anything like what 679 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,920 we've learned in our lifetimes. So Haley's documentary might be 680 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,520 the last of an old world view of the way we actually practice 681 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,880 that the way we actually conducted our lives. 682 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,080 And do you think that the development of astrology is with 683 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,600 computing and like quantum computing that that's where it's 684 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,320 going or? One of the interesting things of 685 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,280 being in the software business, the technical business, we get 686 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,000 to see a lot of technique. Now people endow that technique 687 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,440 with all different feelings and materials, their observations 688 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,760 and stuff. So the psychological materials, 689 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,920 the, the technical type materials, you know, their 690 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,960 astrologers are highly, highly technical in their orientation 691 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:44,680 and this and that. They don't have too many human 692 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,840 qualities to them. Then there are astrologers that 693 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,720 basically are, you know, they play 3 chords and a lot of 694 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:53,400 people listen and they can really relate to it. 695 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:59,080 You don't need a lot of smarts. You need the ability to be 696 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,120 empathetic. You need the ability to 697 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,320 understand how a symbol literally is going to affect or 698 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,560 be imposed on a person's life. Now, where astrology is going to 699 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,680 go, I think it's going to go very much along the lines of 700 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,400 medicine. We're going to continue to be a 701 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,960 craft, right? We're going to get better, 702 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,480 though, at what we're doing and the things that we're doing are 703 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,120 going to change. But we have to be very careful. 704 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,280 If it goes in One Direction, we're all screwed, really. 705 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,760 If it goes in another direction, we're all enamored. 706 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,640 We all get to expand. And I do not want to have 707 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,680 children born and classified. You're going to be a street 708 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,560 sweeper, Nothing better than that. 709 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,160 You're you're going to do this. You know, I like the idea of us 710 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:53,000 having a sense of destiny, but not having a quantified destiny, 711 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,040 you know? That's why it's, it's important 712 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,600 to take it seriously, you know, to take astrology as like a 713 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,800 serious subject and not just something kind of frivolous 714 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,440 because like what Gary's speaking to is like the 715 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,280 potential of where astrology can go could potentially be 716 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:16,440 nefarious if in the wrong hands. I mean, just knowing about how 717 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,000 astrology has been used and currently is used, and you know 718 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,760 that already happens. Years ago, there was an article 719 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,280 in New York about a, a, a group in Brooklyn who were fighting 720 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,360 over an apartment building because they didn't get along 721 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,320 astrologically. It was big news. 722 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,000 And it was a court case going on and all kinds of stuff because, 723 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,080 you know, they, they felt that they had signed contracts to 724 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,400 live in this building, but that their astrological connections 725 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,040 just didn't work, you know, and they blamed it on astrology. 726 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,120 And what I hear in that also is, you know, the kind of refusal to 727 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,520 accept personal responsibility to work with your own 728 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,720 placements, right? And so this way that astrology 729 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:03,080 can be used as a prescription to tell people who they are or to 730 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,760 make a prediction about what will happen is very much coming 731 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,560 from a controlling mind versus someone who is engaging with 732 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,400 astrology as a tool for self reflection and growth. 733 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,200 And a kind of interaction or relationship with the living 734 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,840 world that is also somewhat malleable, that has like various 735 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,880 choices and opportunities in it where people can choose to grow 736 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,440 or not. Well, you know, one of the 737 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,880 earliest forms of astrology, the the earlier Babylonian forms was 738 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:37,040 always an if then consideration, but they always had a remedy. 739 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,000 This is something that's lacking in modern astrology. 740 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,960 We don't have too many remedies per SE, but but the Babylonians, 741 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:49,120 every single malefic condition they had, this is how to get rid 742 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,720 of it. This is how to get God off your 743 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:54,040 back, so to so to speak. You know well. 744 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,840 I'd like to jump in there actually, and maybe this can 745 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,840 lead us to my, my last question for you both, because what I do, 746 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:06,240 you know, embodied astrology as a praxis is not actually heavily 747 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:08,840 based in technique, although we love technique. 748 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,480 You know, we learn a lot of it, we share a lot of it, but really 749 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:18,520 take the approach of kind of a, a personal empowerment path and 750 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,760 a spiritual path. You know what, what's the energy 751 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,880 that's here that we're wanting to respond to? 752 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:30,120 And so remedies often do come up in contemplation and group work, 753 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,360 and they're often cyclical or they have something to do with a 754 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,160 kind of larger collective or ancestral pattern. 755 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,880 And so, you know, like we might find in our own charts, like, 756 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,040 oh, there's this pattern that's here that's not just about me 757 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,240 personally, but it links into society at large or it links me 758 00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:49,000 with my family or something like that. 759 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,840 And so the remedy then is to actually participate in a in a 760 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,120 kind of larger collective way and to feel ourselves in in 761 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,680 relationship with that. And for me, you know, engaging 762 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,600 with your film, on the one hand, I was completely fascinated 763 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,880 because I love everything to do with astrology. 764 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,680 And it was so fun to get to meet Gary and, you know, this other 765 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,360 cast of characters that you bring in and also to follow your 766 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,280 line of inquiry. And it made me more curious 767 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,000 about financial astrology, But it also brought up a question 768 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,400 for me around the history of markets. 769 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:27,720 And the stock market was established first in Amsterdam 770 00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:30,360 with the East India Trading Company, and then the New York 771 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,880 Stock Exchange was a place to trade enslaved people. 772 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,120 And so I'm curious about, you know, engaging with markets that 773 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,400 were created to trade stolen extracted resources and people 774 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,000 who were stolen. And this isn't something that 775 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,360 the film touches on. And it's nothing that the 776 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,760 investors are going to talk about or the financial 777 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,240 astrologers are necessarily talking about. 778 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,040 But considering that astrology is cyclical and the history of 779 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,680 modern markets and the stock market in particular, is driving 780 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,240 an ongoing legacy of colonialism, do either of you 781 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:09,240 feel any like, particular? I'm going to say responsibility, 782 00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:15,000 but I could also say hope you know, or intentionality to these 783 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,040 legacies, you know, and, and the way that you're working with 784 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,840 investors or potentially also astrologers who might be 785 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,320 interested in this application. Well, well, I can't speak for 786 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,320 Haley, but if you indulge me for a second or two, this is 787 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,560 something that's very, very important at this time. 788 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,040 And we're going to go off into left field in essence, because, 789 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,840 listen, this is the world of AI we're coming into. 790 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,640 And you have to understand that we're at a mutation with Jupiter 791 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,200 and Saturn. We've just gone into air signs, 792 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,400 right, right. These mutations take 200 years. 793 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,560 We go back to the last mutation. It was Earth. 794 00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:53,600 Can I just pause for a second for our listeners, Garrett, can 795 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,880 you talk about the great conjunctions and actually lay 796 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:56,920 that out? Because I feel like that's 797 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,600 important. You're just saying the mutation 798 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,640 but. Oh, it's a very important thing 799 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,480 because it's this is the basis of all of our societal 800 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,000 movements. We don't live much longer than a 801 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:12,080 Saturn transit, and Uranus is basically the outer limits for 802 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,480 US, 84 years. So Jupiter and Saturn, when they 803 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,880 come together, they make a conjunction every 20 years and 804 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,920 it's usually in the same element. 805 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,400 So for the last 200 years they've been conjoining in Earth 806 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:31,960 signs, Earth signs, Earth signs now as of once with Reagan, but 807 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,080 now forever. The for the next 200 years, the 808 00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,440 Jupiter and Saturn conjunctions will be in air signs and it 809 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,600 follows suit with everything that's going on. 810 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:50,480 But here's The thing is the development of AI itself, right, 811 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,680 the LLM models and things like that, You have to think about 812 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,600 the last 200 years. It was really 250 years ago when 813 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,480 they started going into the Earth signs and labor became the 814 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,920 issue. Prior to 1800, there were no big 815 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,120 factories per SE. There was no big labor 816 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,720 movements. It was just a quasi capitalism 817 00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:18,600 basically, right? If the king gave you a charter, 818 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,120 it was a good thing, right? You could make beer, right? 819 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:27,560 But as we get into the 1800s, Adam Smith comes along with the 820 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,640 Wealth of Nations and basically says, hey, listen, get your 821 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,920 capital together and you get all these workers and you can 822 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,600 exploit the living shit out of them whether they're slaves or 823 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,360 not, right? And you're going to make 824 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,720 yourself $1,000,000 and and enrich society. 825 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,080 The hand of God will move the markets. 826 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,600 Well, after 50 years of that, Marx came along and says, oh, 827 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,840 this is bad news. Look at these slaves over in 828 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,720 England. It stinks, right? 829 00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:55,200 We have to have a different system. 830 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:56,520 We have to have a socialist system. 831 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,280 The workers have to own everything. 832 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,520 Well, you have to realize that Saturn and Jupiter, making their 833 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,880 conjunctions in the earth signs, exploits the earth absolutely. 834 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,760 The first 100 years was the exploitation of Labor and 835 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,520 exploitation of the earth. The 2nd 100 years was the 836 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,640 liberation of the workers, right? 837 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,760 First we have World War in the 2nd and it's the way it goes 838 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,760 with Saturn and Jupiter conjunctions. 839 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,400 The first 100 years are horrible. 840 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,040 The 2nd 100 years are much better. 841 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,520 When there's a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn. 842 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,880 The 1st 10 years are horrible. The 2nd 10 years are much 843 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,760 better, right? So right now we're in the 844 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,120 horrible first part of the 10 years of the Jupiter Saturn 845 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,200 conjunction in the first time in the air signs. 846 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:48,720 Well, the problem is this is when we get to the 2nd 100 847 00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:51,120 years, the first thing that occurs is World War 1. 848 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,240 And in World War One, we got rid of the patriarchy we got. 849 00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:59,000 What are you talking about? The patriarchy is alive and 850 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,360 well. You understand the way I'm 851 00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,560 coming from? World War One got rid of all the 852 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,240 kings, all the potentates and all the warlords. 853 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,560 Seriously. And democracies were left. 854 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:16,280 However, people, they can't give up daddy images, they can't give 855 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,240 up listening to the Big Eight. That beats everybody up. 856 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,840 So World War 2 happens in the second phase of the European 857 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,840 Revolution occurs where we have to get rid of the false kings 858 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,920 and the false uncles. Uncle Stalin, Uncle Chen, Kai 859 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:36,280 Shek, Uncle Roosevelt, right, Uncle Churchill, all of these 860 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,240 guys, they all had to go the end of World War 2. 861 00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:40,840 Nobody's driving the bus anymore. 862 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:46,400 It literally is the idea of the rise of the American empire. 863 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,880 And of course, we were promoting representational democracies and 864 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,600 things of this nature. I mean, this seems to be the 865 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,960 time when corporations really take that role. 866 00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,760 At the end of World War Two, we gave the world to corporations 867 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,680 and we invented the middle class. 868 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,760 I don't really understand how that's better than the first 100 869 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:07,640 years. It just seems to accelerate some 870 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:12,280 of what was that it's. Better than this, right so we 871 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,280 get to the end of this period and we start going into the air 872 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,680 signs the first thing that occurs is the beginning of the 873 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,920 World Wide Web, the idea of an interconnected social network, 874 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,200 which. By the way, both of you have 875 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,200 placement personal placements conjunct that conjunction. 876 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,360 The 1980 Libra conjunction was pretty much on Gary's Moon and 877 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:39,600 Haley's Ascendant in in Jupiter. Well, the idea is basically this 878 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,760 is is what we're coming to in the world is a very big 879 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:48,040 existential problem. And that is we've invented the 880 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,640 AIS. People do not understand that we 881 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:55,240 have 70 years worth of experience of making robots that 882 00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:57,560 do everything. They build this computer, they 883 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,240 build the TV's, they build everything, all cars, right? 884 00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:05,240 All they have to do is put the LLM models into the robots that 885 00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:07,160 are already there. The robots don't have to look 886 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,720 like humans, right? But they will do. 887 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,440 Right now they're telling children to go learn how to be 888 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,080 electricians and plumbers because, oh, you'll still have a 889 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,880 job after the AI revolution. Wrong. 890 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,160 Those are going to be the first jobs to go, as well as the 891 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,440 lawyers and doctors and everybody else. 892 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,560 The idea is that we will not need a working class. 893 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,280 It's an intellectual class. And the problem is all of our 894 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:39,480 structures, our democracies, our, our financial structures 895 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,440 and everything else are all predicated on the exploitation 896 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,520 of people. There won't be people to 897 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,600 exploit. And what will happen to the 898 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,680 people? They won't be able to afford the 899 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,760 robots if they aren't part of the whole situation. 900 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:56,040 What's going to happen is we need to create an entirely 901 00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:01,080 different system of governance. And always in sci-fi, you always 902 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,480 have the council of elders and stuff like that. 903 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,080 Well, as you can see from the US Supreme Court, that kind of 904 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,800 stuff gets corrupted just as fast as anything else. 905 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,200 And so we have a serious problem. 906 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,560 We can't have 5 corporations running the world. 907 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,240 It's just not going to be. So we will have a very 908 00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:20,520 interesting 100 years ahead of us. 909 00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:25,480 The next five years or so are the years of corruption. 910 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,600 It's unfortunate we're going to be living through these things. 911 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,920 OK, so pause, Gary. So this film potentially puts at 912 00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,720 least the interest, if not the techniques, because you guys 913 00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:38,000 didn't reveal really the techniques of financial 914 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,240 astrology in the film. You you gave a good teaser, but 915 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,640 there is a potential with this film that you're going to get 916 00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:49,160 more people interested in using astrology to work the markets. 917 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,800 I think the markets are going to collapse because of AI. 918 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,880 OK, thank you. This is the I'm wondering like 919 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,760 what are we doing with this information? 920 00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:01,320 Listen, astrology can predict the markets to a certain extent. 921 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,240 You got to realize we're still playing with stone knives and 922 00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:07,000 axes. We're not that technically 923 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:08,720 adept. We're we're back there when 924 00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:10,840 they're trying to turn lead into gold. 925 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,720 And that's where we froze for 2000 years. 926 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,080 There's been no technical advancement until computers came 927 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,080 along. They're not the answer either. 928 00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,240 So astrology can predict the markets. 929 00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:24,600 We can do that sort of stuff that's we've been doing that for 930 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,320 thousands of years. But when the AIS come along, 931 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,400 well, they're going to rig the markets. 932 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,000 Right now, the AIS are already involved. 933 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,320 Once people realize, once the banks will realize that it's, 934 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,360 it's, it's a rigged casino that there are devices that can 935 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:41,960 predict where the market's going to go. 936 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,400 They're not going to trust the markets any longer. 937 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:46,840 And so we'll have a financial collapse. 938 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,760 That's an inversion. It's a, it'll be, it's not a 939 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,520 collapse because of lack of materials or this or that. 940 00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:56,160 It'll be a collapse because there's no place to put the 941 00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,040 money. Do you, do you see that in our 942 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,720 current astrology with Uranus coming back into Gemini? 943 00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:03,120 Like do you think that's coming up pretty? 944 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,520 Soon I think about it isn't just the Uranus crossing at the 945 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:10,400 Gemini is Uranus, Pluto and Neptune have all changed signs. 946 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,320 And they're all talking to each other. 947 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,040 We've all gone from negative to positive signs. 948 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,320 The idea is that it's the interplay between Uranus and 949 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,480 Pluto and Neptune. The midpoint of Uranus and Pluto 950 00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,720 has been on Neptune all the time that Neptune has crossed the 951 00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:28,800 cardinal axis, which is why we've been in an era where truth 952 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,360 and authenticity has been in scarce supply. 953 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,600 You know, it's the Neptune, Saturn conjoining on the 954 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,760 cardinal axis. The world has never seen 955 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,400 anything like that in the last 15,000 years. 956 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,640 We looked, I had my programmer, one of my programmers, Doug 957 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,280 Kellogg, do a study on the Jupiter and Saturn conjunction 958 00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,080 to see did this thing occur on the cardinal axis anywhere else 959 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,840 in history? The closest we came the closest 960 00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:58,320 was the 15th century during the 100 Years War from Reformation 961 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,840 because of Gutenberg's press. Well, we're the same distance 962 00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,440 from Gutenberg's press as we are from the World Wide Web. 963 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,360 In time right now, where the Reformation occurs and 964 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,160 everything blows up, we're in the same position with the World 965 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,120 Wide Web. It all blows up, and that's why 966 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,080 it's the AI scariest thing now, astrology. 967 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,360 This movie is the last of the way astrology will have been 968 00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,920 after all the TikTok people and everything else passes. 969 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:27,160 But when the popular wave of astrology passes by, astrology 970 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:32,560 will be seen as very authentic. And from that perspective right 971 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,840 is where we decide astrology get how would you put it? 972 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,560 Corrupted? Or does astrology become a 973 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,040 spiritual savior for the world and and the idea of it becoming 974 00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:49,640 corrupted will be in the hands of an autocracy or a situation 975 00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,520 where how you deal with the people becomes a problem? 976 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,360 So we're in for very large transformations because of this 977 00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,120 time. The next four or five years is 978 00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,680 the time of corruption. The period after that, there'll 979 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,720 have to be a revolution because of the distribution of goods. 980 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:11,200 But I can say this, the latter part of the century, as we get 981 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:15,280 into the 20 sixties, the world does become a wonderful, 982 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,680 wonderful place really. We had spirituality gets 983 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,280 widespread built with technology and everything else. 984 00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,760 But we have to go through two really horrible periods, just 985 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,160 like World War One and World War 22, very horrible periods that 986 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:35,640 are facing us right now. And, and, and as I said, this 987 00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:40,400 film, this documentary describes a time that will never exist 988 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,840 again, right? It won't our, our worlds are 989 00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,840 changing. This is a, a movie about the old 990 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,680 world, you know, and a time when astrology was a, a certain way 991 00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,560 at a certain level. And it's not going to be the 992 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,160 same after this. So that's how I see the movie. 993 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,320 I see the movie as, Oh my God, Haley froze something in time. 994 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,640 It's really nice. It's really wonderful, you know, 995 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,040 and we have a record of it now. It's a historical document. 996 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,280 We don't see documentaries in astrology. 997 00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,480 Thank you. Gary, I have a slight 998 00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,400 disagreement with something that you said about, you know, the 999 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,200 age of corruption or something being now, because I know that 1000 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,360 astrology has already been used in really corrupt ways for a 1001 00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:26,040 long time. And it's part of the history of 1002 00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,000 astrology actually. You know that it's gets driven 1003 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,840 underground and persecuted when it becomes too available to the 1004 00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,160 people and the people start to feel liberated by it. 1005 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,600 And then it continues to be used by kings, by military rulers, by 1006 00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:43,640 Ronald Reagan, etcetera. But you know, with any 1007 00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:47,280 technology, I think there's potentials to use it for really 1008 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,680 beautiful, generative life nourishing ways and very 1009 00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,680 destructive ways. So maybe we'll just finish up 1010 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:56,000 with you, Haley and and I'll revisit this, this question that 1011 00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,160 I feel like I've already asked you, but maybe I can ask it in a 1012 00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,480 different way now around, you know, what Gary has offered in 1013 01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,000 terms of this being a time capsule and what you've also 1014 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,440 talked to in that. And then the engagement that you 1015 01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,920 had with with markets and this potential that maybe the market 1016 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:19,080 is also a relic of the past. You know, soon if, if there's 1017 01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:24,000 like one prayer that you want to send out with this film as it 1018 01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:29,240 gets distributed, you know, in Mass and all kinds of people get 1019 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,200 to see it, What is that prayer? How does it infuse those who 1020 01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:34,840 view it and what the world becomes? 1021 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,760 It's difficult because think I see the release of the film as a 1022 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,760 death, right? Like, it's actually not a birth, 1023 01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,600 at least for me, right? For me, it's a death. 1024 01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,520 It's a full cycle. And so I have to mourn that it 1025 01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,880 no longer belongs to me and my, like, you know, curated womb. 1026 01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,640 And that it now is. Yeah, I guess to extend the 1027 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,520 metaphor being raised by everyone else's, like 1028 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:06,080 perceptions and how they're going to take the film and like 1029 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,760 stories that they're lessons they're going to take for men or 1030 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,760 new perspectives that they could take from it. 1031 01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:18,000 My hope, you know, is that it opens people's minds to 1032 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:23,080 astrology as something more than just like a, you know, back of 1033 01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,840 the newspaper sunshine horoscope that it's, you know, not a 1034 01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:30,640 pseudoscience and, you know, the pejorative sense that it's 1035 01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,680 something ancient or that it's something wise. 1036 01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:38,240 There's wisdom to it that is beyond all of us and that there 1037 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,280 are different pockets of astrology. 1038 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,840 Again, it's not a monolith, obviously. 1039 01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,960 Like I didn't even touch Eastern astrology and to touch Vedic, I 1040 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,880 didn't touch Mayan astrology. I didn't touch any of that 1041 01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:50,520 because that's not my story to tell. 1042 01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,240 And otherwise, it's been a very long movie. 1043 01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:58,800 And yeah, it's just to open up this world with, like, a new 1044 01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:02,400 lens and something that Christine, who's in the film, 1045 01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:07,520 she's British and something she had said to me off camera after 1046 01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,600 she watched it. And was that she also just hopes 1047 01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:16,160 that it encourages other people to, you know, if they're 1048 01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,640 interested in filmmaking, even to a slight degree, that they 1049 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,680 know that anything's possible, that you can just make 1050 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,640 something, you know, and that you can make your own movie 1051 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,240 about astrology. And that she hopes to see more 1052 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,400 documentaries about astrology from all these other 1053 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,920 perspectives, 'cause this is just one piece of the pie, you 1054 01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:39,920 know? And so it's just to kind of 1055 01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:44,160 maybe make a nudge, nudge something forward, nudge like a 1056 01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,320 perspective forward. If I had a hope for this 1057 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:52,040 document, it is it is that just a little, just a new perspective 1058 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:57,240 and the importance, you know, the importance of taking 1059 01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,640 something seriously that maybe others have just deemed 1060 01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:04,000 ridiculous. And I think that's always been 1061 01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:09,640 the work that I make has shown, I hope has shown like reverence 1062 01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,120 and deference to perspectives. The world at large make deem 1063 01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,840 silly. I find it difficult to watch 1064 01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,880 things sometimes where you can tell that, you know, the film 1065 01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:25,400 makers behind it or the team behind it don't really care, you 1066 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,120 know, or don't really like, give reverence to their subjects. 1067 01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,560 It's, it is more of a sideshow, right? 1068 01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,400 It's more of a freak show. And I I take great care to make 1069 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:39,800 sure that I'm never treating anyone in my films or around my 1070 01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,160 films, Like I'm just kind of popping in for a day, showing 1071 01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,880 something weird or kooky, and then popping back out. 1072 01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,280 Well, thank you both for this conversation. 1073 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,400 I, you know, as a professional astrologer and someone who's 1074 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,120 really devoted to the field and also, you know, I feel really 1075 01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:00,720 engaged with its growth and evolution. 1076 01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:05,280 I just really want to appreciate both of you for your dedication 1077 01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,240 to the field also. And yeah, Gary, thank you so 1078 01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,720 much for being an ancestor, you know, to all of us and a 1079 01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,520 transmitter of uranium intelligence. 1080 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:17,240 And I really hope to. Yeah. 1081 01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:19,640 Learn more about your practice, then hope you get to keep 1082 01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,400 practicing well past your Uranus return. 1083 01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,000 Thank you. Haley, thank you for for your 1084 01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,960 interest and for making this film and bringing forward 1085 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,880 possibilities that you know hopefully will spur new interest 1086 01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,000 in astrology and generative interest in it. 1087 01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,960 I hope it does. Thank you so much for your time. 1088 01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:40,360 Yes, for having us all. You're welcome, It's really nice 1089 01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:41,360 to meet both of you.