I kind of was thinking about how shame can sometimes be a shield
from feeling grief that I don't have the capacity to sit with.
And so a lot of times I'll just like, put up this shame shield
and kind of shut down. And so it surprised me to
realize that I needed to build more capacity around my ability
to sit with my grief rather than just like shut it down, block it
off or feel ashamed about it. And so that was a new little
like gateway pathway to kind of like a little hack in moments of
conflict. Like, wait a minute, can I check
in? What's the connection that I'm
searching for in this? Where am I not feeling seen?
How is that beautiful and rich And like what?
What's at stake here can actually be not something that
I'm going to lose, but something that I want to gain.
I want to get closer. I want to be more understood.
And next step, check in with your shame.
What's up with that? Is there some grief under there
that you need help holding? Do you need to go out and lay on
the ground? Do you need to hug a tree?
Do you need to cry? Do you need to phone a friend?
Maybe you're not ashamed of anything.
Maybe you're just sad and it's hard.
So I'm just like, OK, cool. These are some little like
mental somatic maps that I can create to help me as I'm going.
And those have really stuck with me and like been sweet
surprises. Hi everyone, welcome to the
Embodied Astrology podcast. It's very exciting to have you
here. I'm looking at the faces of
folks from across the different cohorts of At the Heart of
Conflict, and today we're going to be having a conversation
about your experiences with a cohort.
I think sometimes the work that we do in these spaces at
Embodied Astrology can be hard to language.
And also Amy and I do a lot of processing together about the
conflict series and have been having these conversations on
the podcast, but we haven't really had the opportunity to
bring in other voices from the experience.
And because of the nature of this space and how Co created it
is, it just felt really important to us to incorporate
the voices and experiences of the folks who helped shape it.
So that's why we've invited you here today and I'm really
excited to hear from all of you. And just really, it's really
heartwarming to like see folks from the different cohorts
together in a space and kind of just makes me want to put out
the wish that when we're done these 4 cohorts that there's a
way to bring us all together in some way.
So that's the wish that I'm putting out.
And what we'll do is just Orient to a couple of different
questions and I'll let Amy take it from here.
Thank you. So yeah, I guess if we start
with just like a little bit of an introduction.
From all of you. Why you joined the cohort and
where you started when you first set out on your journey with the
series. My name is Alina and I was part
of Cohort 2, and I joined during a really intense conflict with
my family. I am someone who enjoys, you
know, like getting into conflict, like having, you know,
connection through those conflicts.
I think with my family, because I've always been the protector
and the one that always stands up and speaks truth, it's always
made me out to be the bad person because they are more avoidant
so nobody want to deal with anything anymore except for me.
So I felt confused and pretty overwhelmed and I kept thinking
I just want to get to the heart of this.
And then a few days later I saw there was an offering through
Embodied Astrology, a 12 week class called At the Heart of
Conflict. And I mean, the timing felt
almost like too perfect, like it was meant to be.
I've been following Embodied Astrology for a while and even
though I didn't know exactly what I was getting into, I felt
like this could actually help me understand what was happening.
Wow, beautiful. I'm Chelsea and I'm too a long
time fan girl of EA and yeah, just been tuning in for a long
time and wanting to connect and engage.
And I'm also a little, I guess I consider myself a little feisty
and I definitely have some significant conflicts throughout
my life that I have complicated feelings around.
While at the same time, I have situations where I don't feel
like I stand up for myself or enter into conflict.
And so I feel that there's this push pull between be feeling too
extreme in conflict and not feeling like I can step up and
enter into it. And that is a flag for me of
like, oh, this is about an unbalanced energy in my life.
And around the time that this cohort was announced, I was
having pretty profound struggles with my experience of anger,
both internally and externally, and feeling pretty overwhelmed
about how to navigate it and, and feeling a lot of shame, to
be honest, and isolation in the sensation of feeling these like
big rushes of anger. And so when the cohort was
announced, I was like, oh, that sounds like other people who
want to do this and aren't afraid to step up to the plate
and engage in conflict. And it sounded like potential
for developing tools. And I'm also just a nerd and,
like, understanding things more is so soothing.
It can be really soothing to my nervous system.
So it was just like, yes, all the things.
And so I went for it. I am CR Catherine Rose is my
full first name, but I often go by CRI was part of cohort 3.
And yeah, we're just at the beginning of the conversation.
It's always really heart expanding, I think to hear where
we're all coming from. So just honoring what you
shared, I suppose. I came to this cohort feeling
pretty isolated also. So I'm really resonating with
what you've shared, Alina, and you as well, Chelsea, about
strong feelings. I was in a conflict at work,
which mirrors patterns of conflict I've had in other areas
of my life. And I had spent most of the
winter break just sort of laid out in bed basically from
exhaustion and A and a lot of burnout to do with taking
responsibility in conflict, trying to show up, trying to
meet people where they're at and feeling really under attack for
being someone who spoke up or noticed or brought attention to
unhealthy dynamics. And had this real experience of
a kind of pile on in a professional environment in
quite a small organization. So quite an intimate set of
relationships, not a lot of places to hide or go.
And I was pretty freaked out. I was pretty freaked out.
I was afraid of what was going to happen just in terms of would
the conflict continue to erupt and evolve and would I still
continue to be at the center of it?
And also just my livelihood and stability being tied to that
labor, but also just the patterns that it was showing up
of other parts of my life that I thought, I just don't know.
Can I keep being in these situations?
I don't know how much resilience I have to them.
Feeling really afraid that this is like a lifelong pattern that
I'll just keep manifesting wherever I go.
You know, that the problem somehow is me.
And no matter what circumstance I'm in personally, in my family
or professionally, these patterns are going to
materialize. So I was, I was seeking
community. I was seeking people who wanted
to have those conversations and wanted to be in some sense of
solidarity with each other and to help me see patterns.
And yeah, I had seen that there had been two other cohorts.
And I think I was too much in the thick of the conflict to
even think about joining a previous cohort.
And when it came along, I think I was one of the last people to
sign up for the for the cohort 3.
So I got in just in time and it was what I needed and it was
definitely what I needed at the time.
Hey everyone, I'm Olivia. I was in cohort one at the time
of starting. I was quite reactive to conflict
coming from a wounded place that caused me to shut down in one
way or another, wanting to escape people please or freeze.
And I was following embodied astrology for a while and I
guess I'll say I was in a lot of therapy and organizing spaces at
the time, but I was finding the work of both spaces really
important that weren't really being met for me.
And I find embodied astrology, a community that is doing that is
bridging that gap. And at the time, really, I'm
still craving belonging, but there didn't seem to be a path
forward for me there. So I, I knew that this kind of
skill building was necessary to the community that I'm trying to
build. Needing to navigate conflict is
central to, you know, the decolonizing project, to
building new systems and to just having the capacity to dream of
a world that we want. And I, I say we because there's
something so central to the animal experience of liberation.
And sometimes I think conflict, this really butts up against
each other's imagining of freedom, or that's been my
experience. But yeah, I it trusted embodied
astrology and the people who that it would collect the
navigate that with. That's what brought me here.
Beautiful. Thank you all so much.
How would you describe what it was like to be part of the
cohort? Alina will have you answer and
then CR. I would say it's a space where
you can slow down and really look at conflict in a new way.
Like I came in wanting like answers and wanting to fix
things, but it turned out to be more about like understanding
myself, my patterns, my reactions, what was really
underneath the conflict and being in this group with
everyone and, and going through something that really made me
feel safe to to be myself, especially working with the
birth chart, you know, was really like, I had no idea what
I came into this like that. I was even going to even be
looking at that. That was going to be the focus.
But I did know that I didn't know anything really.
I also say that I was, I had a little bit of fear around
navigating, you know, my birth chart because actually a family
member had weaponized it against me as I was growing up.
So I was kind of a little fearful.
But then there was many people that had varying degrees of
experience working with birth charts and everybody had a
little piece to offer. And it made me just like, really
go, oh, wow. I had, like, a greater
acceptance of myself. I felt safe to be myself.
I felt like it was a space where I wasn't going to be judged.
And I realized that I wasn't alone and struggling in these
kinds of issues. So I would say, yeah, I want
more people to do this. So our cohort just finished
yesterday. So it's really fresh for me in
terms of this gathering, in this conversation that we're having
across different timelines of how people have engaged without
the heart of conflict. And I guess the thing I would
say first is we talked in the last session about how we carry
that cohort with us. There was a few of us who sort
of spoke about going into situations and feeling that the
other 11 people, you know are there with you.
And I still feel that in my heart and my body.
And so I think there's probably something about the quality of
witnessing, I think Arena that you were describing, that
experience of being able to be ourselves and for me, the
ability to be witnessed as myself, you know, messy,
complicated, confused, uncertain, frustrated, angry.
And Chelsea, your word of feisty, like all of that being
present over the course of those 12 weeks and it being like a
loud accepted scene, not even commented on, just present is
something that I really hold as an experience that it's very
powerful to be witnessed and to be able to see yourself as well
through the gaze, like through the gentle gaze of others.
And yeah, I'm also holding this generosity of how people showed
up and offered something in, you know, so the ability to have a
kind of focused time on one person a week where you get
about an hour to have this deep dive.
What a gift and spending time even going back with the
recording. So I spent some time yesterday
before our final session going back to my deep dive and
reconnecting with it. There's a lot there that you
kind of experience in the real time moment and then you can go
back to because there's things that people put in the chat that
you can't keep up with and there's all this list of this
broadcast. And have you thought about this?
And like, do you want to, you know, hear some ideas of things
that you could look into more either from your patterns, like
people asking really lovely questions or people who are very
experienced with astrology asking, you know, questions
about your birth chart that might point to some of those
patterns. But I think the thing that I
take away from the very first session from me was I really
remember the very first session and when it finished, I went and
told like everybody that I knew about this amazing group that I
was in. And, you know, maintaining of
course, the confidentiality of everybody's experience.
But just saying there was this diversity of experience around
conflict. And I had this sort of humble
moment of thinking because my experience of conflict is so
feels so acute to me. I really just thought people
would experience it very similar to me that that I have this kind
of fight response like that I will meet the conflict and it it
like it and I will be deeply affected by it.
And people were saying kind of amazing things, like, you know,
it doesn't change my opinion of myself if I'm in conflict with
someone else. I thought, what are you saying
to me? Like that's amazing.
I'm like deeply affected and all kind of changed up on the inside
when I'm in conflict with people.
But there were other people who are really anchored, very clear.
You know, there's so much strength in the different ways
that people were approaching things and lots of vulnerability
and lots of, of course, uncertainty in our own
approaches, lots of desire to learn, but just the plurality
and like the beauty of people's different ways of, of
approaching it and holding, holding their shape was one of
our phrases. The way people try to hold their
shape in conflict was I still find that really heartening and
strengthening. And see how during this sort of
12 weeks of the cohort, did you find that it was supporting you
and how you were navigating conflict during that time?
So I began the cohort really believing that the conflict in
my life was going to escalate because it had been so explosive
in the kind of November, December, and then I joined the
cohort in January. So I came in with like really
bracing and I think one of the things that I learned through
the process was just these different kind of phases of
conflict, right? That you can be in a conflict
where everyone is aware that a conflict is happening and you're
sort of in a holding pattern actually.
And it's not, no one is healed. This isn't all getting resolved
overnight. It's not even getting resolved
over a 12 week period. So some of what I experienced
through the 12 weeks was what's it like to pace myself?
What's it like to be witnessed in, in just sort of holding
steady, you know, not fatiguing, not giving in, not giving way,
you know, and not also maybe being in kind of attack mode,
but just being in a kind of balanced position.
What I'd wanted out of the experience was to be more
choiceful. So some of that means slowing
down and paying attention and noticing and asking, do I need
to do anything right now? I think when I'm certainly in a
very like highly energized conflict experience, I really
move to action. Like, OK, great, like let's move
forward, let's move through this.
And actually, some of what I was doing over the last 12 weeks was
holding steady to wait to see, to notice if if some of the
experience was like allowing for learning in the environment, not
just my own, but others, I suppose we talked about like not
being healed, trademark healed at the end of the 12 weeks.
And I, yeah, I still hold to that.
I'm still in a conflict, I would say.
And it's there's a bit of a marathon to that.
And that's, that's OK. Like the thing for me was to
lift my head up and be able to see the direction of travel and
like the many possibilities, the main roads that I can take and
not just the one that is part of my patterning that's most
available and easy for me, which is like, I fight now, like we
we're in conflict. I'm fighting now.
You know, which I say with humor, right?
But that's like knowing I have that muscle is great.
And also I wanted to see if there was anything else.
But I still feel I'm really learning from the rest of the
cohort in terms of like, how would some of those other folks
deal with this situation and what can I learn from them?
How can I bring them and their energy into to my choices?
I love that. Thank you.
I'm really hearing the new possibilities and paths opening
up just by kind of being in the space with other folks that that
see things so differently. And it's really lovely to hear
how that shifted things for you. So Olivia, how about you during
the time that you were in the cohort, how did you find it for
in your process conflict? Thanks Amy.
I found a variety of perspectives and knowledge bases
and skill sets that would not have, I just wouldn't have had
access to and all focused on one story at a time.
But each story, it may have been focused on the person sharing it
the their conflict, but there it was so rich in learning.
It felt like I'm reading a book right now about fables and myths
of the wild woman archetype and I'm forgetting who wrote it
right now, but it just felt like that.
It felt like through each story there was this whole, all these
storylines and myths and archetypes that were unlocked,
and there's this conflict inherently in itself between
just an oppressive society and individuals trying to create
community. So to have this one place, this
one central location where there's a bunch of skilled,
compassionate, caring people kind of putting their minds
together with so much care for someone's conflict about
something that's really activating.
And so it supported me to just start to be present with my own
feelings and the feelings of those around me.
And there's a lot about conflict that I knew beforehand
theoretically, but the experience of processing
together integrated those theoretical understandings that
I wasn't practicing. So I started to, instead of
projecting my inner experience, which that's what we do as
humans, we are all projecting. Yeah.
I don't think it's the call out that it.
Sometimes I like to make it sometimes where it's like you're
projecting, but I think we all are.
But I think there's a way of being more present in in the
outward external reality instead of so focused for me internally.
And this cohort really integrated that where I saw it
in practice of all these perspectives that for me didn't
exist in my life. In therapy spaces, there's this
big emphasis on responding rather than reacting because the
reaction is just the old coping mechanism, the tool, the
outdated tool that doesn't work anymore.
And I so I learned a lot about that at a theoretical level, but
the Heart of Conflict cohort I was in showed me how to respond
overreacting in a really supportive way.
It's interesting what you're or what you said call to mind for
me this quote from Billy Ray Belcourt, who's an indigenous
writer from so-called Canada. And yeah, he just talked about
giving ourselves the permission to theorize about our lives and
how rarely we get that opportunity and how important it
is to, like CR said as well, like have people that you can be
with in looking at your patterns together and really like slow
down and be present and witness ourselves.
Like be able to witness yourself and not have to do it alone.
Because I think witnessing ourselves can be kind of a scary
process, actually. It can be scary to look at your,
your own patterns and try to bring care and compassion, but I
felt like across all of the cohorts, there was so much, so
much generosity in the witnessing.
And yeah, just really this unique ability to hold ourselves
and hold each other in our difference.
And that that difference, the difference for once could be
actually like a benefit. It could be a strength.
Like, it could make us feel better about our individual
selves by being held in the difference.
But yeah, I mean, we've talked a lot about all of the the lovely
parts of this cohort, but this work is challenging.
You know, I think it stretches us in a lot of different ways.
And I guess I'm curious to hear what parts of the experience you
might have found particularly challenging, Alina.
The most challenging part for me was really that I was a 61 year
old black woman coming in to a space where I was, again, the
only black woman there. And could my experience be, you
know, relatable or understood? So I felt, you know, really
unsure of myself. And I will also say that I
realized through this that I was just going through my second
Saturn return also. So there was just so many things
happening at once that I thought it was losing my mind really.
I really did feel that way. And I wasn't sure if I could
understand things correctly as being an older learner, right?
And there's different ways that people communicate in every like
generation. That's been my experience and I
thought that I might not be able to completely understand or I
wouldn't be understood. From my experience though, it
took me a little while to like feel comfortable, you know, I
just took it slow and then I gave myself the opportunity to
just listen. But I also, it was so important
for me to feel that I could be vulnerable in this space.
And also I wanted people to hear my story.
I wanted people to know, you know, what it was like.
But what ended up helping me was seeing how everyone brought
different knowledge and perspectives.
And I'm tearing up right now, you know, people shared what
they knew. And I didn't feel like people
just shared what they felt intuitively.
And just listening and witnessing each other help me
trust that I that I didn't need to have it all, like, figured
out. And what I learned was, yeah,
conflict is so messy. And I would say by the end, I
felt more confident in who I was.
Like I could understand that my way of being was perfectly fine.
And I, I guess I didn't realize how much I was really going
through at the time too. And in everyone sharing how they
saw me or what they saw in my chart helped me to go, oh, all
right, I'm OK. And these people don't see that
something's wrong with me. Yeah, that's real.
That's real. Thank you for sharing.
I think I remember the week that you maybe decided that you were
going to lean in or like kind of take that step into
vulnerability. And I think it was, yeah.
I felt like after you maybe decided that it's, it was a
space that you could do that in. And yeah, I just remember how
special it was to see you sort of open up into the Alina that I
know now. Yeah.
Thank you. Thank you.
Olivia, I'm curious about whether there were any parts of
the process that felt challenging for you.
I think coming from a perspective often of group
therapy where there's a lot of insulation in processing, where
there's not feedback really unless you ask for it, and
there's all these other kind of like bumpers, I think of like
bowling, where it's like there's just a lot of safety mechanisms.
But in this experience, we were group processing active
conflict, so the potential for trigger was massive.
And I think the capacity to receive, I'll just speak for
myself, but I think I noticed in others too was tested.
It's like how open am I to receive feedback here?
And in my case, I got a lot of validating perspectives that
felt supportive, but that didn't inherently have to be true for a
lot of, you know, a lot of our situations, our patterns were
being confronted. So I think when I say
activation, there was a lot of activation and learning.
But I think of it, it was nervous system activation that I
saw, but also spiritual activation for me.
Things clicking into place but also being really pushed
against. Where?
Some of my beliefs, like I just realized last week, I was still
holding on to a lot of patriarchal beliefs, those were
pushed and obviously that felt good to me in the moment of my
conflict. But transformation is painful,
rebirth is painful. So I think that part was
challenging, just receiving and giving feedback around such
tenderness. Yeah.
Thank you so much for speaking to that, all of that.
I'm almost taking for granted now how much we've held in these
cohorts together. And Chelsea, Olivia and you were
part of the same cohort. And you know, I think we had an
interesting experience when your deep dive came up.
I'm curious if you can speak to that, that experience and the
challenge of that well. Actually, now that I feel more
comfortable asserting myself since participating in the
cohort, I'm going to say that I'd actually prefer to share
from the beginning of my experience, the first instance
that I had that was challenging for me and that was at the
beginning of our cohort. I was in the first cohort and
coming in, I think especially with something I've been
struggling with, I really wanted like a clear structure of what,
what are we going to do? Like what are the tools?
What is the framework? And that wasn't the initial,
There wasn't like a clear structure at the beginning.
And I was forced to sit with the kind of uncertainty.
But then also I, I felt comfortable enough in the group
after a couple sessions to bring that up, to bring up my need for
a, a little bit more clarity or structure, understanding of what
we're doing. And that was a challenge, A,
just to be brave and bring up my need because of my patterning
around conflict. But then B, it was really well
received by the group. And so it ended up being healing
to have a real time experience of being uncomfortable, being
brave enough to just state my need and what I was feeling and
then have it be so well received by a group of people that I
didn't really know and wasn't certain about.
And so that helped to lay this groundwork of trust.
And it also kind of gave me the first taste of what some of my
personal patterning around conflict was.
That again, that I mentioned earlier, shame being a big part
of it and not wanting to assert my needs or even just name my
needs. But then having it build up
inside of me as resentment and feeling like, oh, OK, well, I'm
just going to carry that and kind of shut down and, and turn
away from a group or from people.
And that was similar to some of what I was experienced in my
real life. So it felt really good.
We talked about these like proxy experiences of forgiveness and
healing and how sometimes you can have a conflict and it's not
realistic to receive the forgiveness and healing from the
actual people that you are in conflict with.
And through that challenge, I actually was able to have like a
proxy experience of healing and forgiveness.
So that was cool. And yeah, and it kind of fed
into what Alicia was asking about in terms of in my deep
dive experience, I had a similar instance where I had my real
time conflict patterning come into play in the group.
As folks have mentioned, it's everybody gets a turn to have
them self be the focus of the deep dive container for the
session and everybody has different schedules and maybe
can't make every session. So you're kind of claiming like,
OK, I'm going to do this spot, this spot.
And I was like, OK, cool. Like I'm just I'm down for
whatever. And then I was at the end and
and I hadn't asserted myself at all and there was only one slot
left or something like that. Got wonky with our scheduling.
Yeah, go ahead, Alicia. I can't really remember exactly.
Yeah, the person who it was between you and someone else and
the other person had said they didn't want to go or they
weren't there that day. And so I was like, Chelsea, I
know you don't want to, but also will you?
Yeah, and it was just like so funny, 'cause I was like, this
is my fucking life, like story of my life and I'm going to do
it, 'cause like I'm going to keep things going and it's not
what I want, but I'm, I'm never the one to, you know, like I'm
always just going to do it because it's my, it needs to be
done. And I felt it was actually
really cool because I felt like there was this more capacitated,
more evolved part of me that was being held by our container of
the cohort, because in spaces like this, we're calling
ourselves to be this version of ourselves that we want to be.
And so it gives us a chance for that version to take shape.
And so that part of me was being held by my cohort.
And then from that lens I could. See.
This other part of myself like tossing and turning and like
inside of me of this, this part that wanted to like lash out,
shut down, freak out, all these different.
It was so me. And to be able to see that part
of me just thrashing in this moment of like, no, I don't want
it to be my turn, but I have to go because it's my
responsibility. No one else can do it if I don't
do it. It was such an old deep pattern.
And I felt that like wounded little part of myself, like
dancing in me and being able to sit in that bigger part of
myself in the web of this cohort.
And just like see her coming back to kind of the witnessing.
So not only was I witnessed by the cohort, I was also witnessed
by a different part of myself in time and space.
And that's incredibly powerful. And so it was like this layered
witnessing and it did result in a really profound shift within
myself just in that moment to be able to be held in the
processing of a very deep pattern and a very deep part of
myself. And I had some deep realizations
that maybe I think will come up in a a different question since
then too. But yeah.
Thank you for sharing and bringing us back into that
moment. And, and really both of those
moments, you know, like the first one that you described of
the circumstances of the lack of structure in the first cohort,
you made it sound easy. You know, you made it sound
like, Oh, I brought this thing up that I was really nervous
about and everybody accepted it. But it was like a big moment for
me. And I won't, I won't speak on
Amy's behalf, But you know, it was really this moment of being
like, oh, no, Oh my God, we're getting called out.
And like, I didn't do it right. And, oh, we're only in the first
cohort, and I've already fucked it up.
And everybody agrees. And like, and then I just had
this moment where I was like, everybody agrees.
Like, Chelsea's not the odd one out.
Chelsea's not causing trouble. Chelsea's speaking on behalf of
the collective, which is a really tough place to be in.
And yeah, I think we saw that. You know, it really taught me
something about the people who speak out in social
circumstances when nobody else will.
And the burden that that carries and the responsibility and the
shame and the guilt, yeah, it just taught me a lot about about
the power of that and to protect the people who do that.
So, yeah, I want to thank you for that.
And also it really helped bring some very necessary structure in
a way that I think I had been resistant to.
But I think we were able to find a good mix of like structure and
still the ability to to be with what's present.
Yeah. And you know, while we're
speaking, I'm, I'm curious about, and you've spoken to this
a bit already, but whether there were parts of the experience
that felt like surprising or revelatory to you?
That was a really sweet chair. Thank you.
And side note, part of why it was so hard to bring up is
'cause I really like Alicia and Amy and I did not want to be
like, And it was so good and like, yeah, so many layers to
life and conflict and what's at stake.
I know we talked about that a lot in our A cohort too, Like
what's at stake for everyone involved in this conflict.
One thing that comes up for me in terms of like surprising and
something that I would say has really stuck with me since the
cohort and really transformed my perspective on conflict in
general is something that someone said.
And I don't remember who it was, but it was looking at conflict
as a plea for connection. And I had demonized myself so
much as being like a difficult person.
And you know, I have lost these relationships due to my
eagerness to engage in conflict. And Elena, what some of what you
were saying really resonated with me of being the one who's
willing to bring up this shit and like have conflict and
that's caused me to lose relationships.
And then someone said that and it completely flipped the script
on me from being like, oh, I'm so annoying, I'm so difficult.
I'm always the one trying to start shit.
And then suddenly it was like, wait a minute.
I suddenly was looking back on these conflicts from the lens of
self compassion of like, oh man, I was so hurt.
Like I was really trying to connect with that person and I
got totally shut down. And so I was able to build
myself love. And then also it gave me insight
into my shame. I kind of was thinking about how
shame can sometimes be a shield from feeling grief that I don't
have the capacity to sit with. And so a lot of times I'll just
like, put up this shame shield and kind of shut down.
And so it surprised me to realize that I needed to build
more capacity around my ability to sit with my grief rather than
just like shut it down, block it off or feel ashamed about it.
And so that was a new little like gateway pathway to kind of
like a little hack in moments of conflict.
Like, wait a minute, can I check in?
What's the connection that I'm searching for in this?
Where am I not feeling seen? How is that beautiful and rich
and like what? What's at stake here can
actually be not something that I'm going to lose, but something
that I want to gain. I want to get closer.
I want to be more understood. Then kind of flipping that and
next step, check in with your shame.
What's up with that? Is there some grief under there
that you need help holding? Do you need to go out and lay on
the ground? Do you need to hug a tree?
Do you need to cry? Do you need to phone a friend?
Maybe you're not ashamed of anything.
Maybe you're just sad and it's hard.
So I'm just like, OK, cool. These are some little like
mental somatic maps that I can create to help me as I'm going
and those have really stuck with me and like been sweet surprises
so. Wow.
Yeah, Thanks so much, Chelsea. Hearing that, like the surprises
that came up for you and the revelations that came up for you
and your own person, it's really sweet to remember back as well.
Alina, how about you? Do you remember anything that
felt surprising or revelatory to you once you went through the
cohort? Yeah, Chelsea really hit on some
things that I really appreciate it and I could really
understand. And I felt, I think for the
first time, I was actually able to see that wounded part of me.
And the anxiety and the anger that body meant of reactiveness,
I would say, surprised me to see that like to witness that in
myself for the first time by realizing how much I have been
trying to meet other people's expectations.
I spent all this time trying to learn how to communicate better,
how to be with confrontation and conflict and and then realized
that I'm that I really just wanted support and connection
really needed that. And I didn't know, maybe I
didn't even know what that looked like and maybe I didn't
even know how to receive it. And I think what happened was
that there was so much pain that I was holding, thinking that,
you know, I'm trying to be my my true self, but I was still
falling into these patterns of belief systems that I'm not good
enough or that I'm unworthy. I didn't realize how I was still
trapped in those beliefs, even though I've done so much work
over the years, like the last 20 years on trying to separate from
that. And I think the only thing that
was really holding me back was my family because I was already
losing so many friendships, so many relationships.
And the most important relationship to me was my
family. And I like made that my
motivation, my motivation being, you know, my family.
You know, how do I heal my family?
How do I heal my ancestors? You know, and not really
focusing on like, know what's happening here is that you're
healing yourself and that it's a lifelong process.
And it was like such a relief to know that it's OK, could be who
I am and I can set up these boundaries because that's real
and no one else is going to do it for me.
And if people can't abide by those boundaries, then those
aren't my people. And it really brought about self
acceptance. I've it felt really freeing.
I also think that coming, you know, being part of this was
that I realized like, I found my people in this group, you know,
and that I wanted to connect more with my chart to learn more
about it and people that were doing also doing the same thing.
So yeah, I just felt a really a sense of relief and support.
And I think what I really learned from all this too, I
just want to say like the surprise me is that I really
learned how to nurture myself, Pete.
Like I knew how to do that. I think my family knows how.
But I, you know, the key is that I learned how to do that for
myself. And I'm really grateful.
Thank you. Thank you.
It's big. Olivia, was there a moment
coming through this work that you noticed yourself showing up
differently and making different choices in the way that you show
up in conflict? Yes, I learned so much about
myself in this process in a way that I can observe myself like
what Chelsea talked about, but this still feels supportive as
this contrast to one conflict that I'm still processing and
definitely showing up in a way I would not have without this
group. My therapy group exploded, which
I'm still tender about and I feel pretty big about.
So that will be reflected in what I how I share about this.
But in this situation that I had shared with the cohort in the
Heart of Conflict in response to my share, I had so much support
and I was so held and with the same facts, the same story in
this therapy group of people who I thought of as friends who know
my deepest, darkest secrets and trauma, they finally shared that
they thought I was in the wrong, that I was dangerous for
boundaries, that I'd had essentially, that I should have
fallen in line. And I think what the Heart of
Conflict showed me was that the fruit of this thing that we had
built was rotten. And I don't think I would have
seen that without this cohort. And frankly, this just
completely contradictory perspective of the of the cohort
and my therapy group of just being so supported by the
cohort, not even in a way that there was a right or wrong
because I find that binary not to be particularly helpful
lately. There's a lot of metrics we
might be looking at, but right and wrong doesn't feel very
helpful one. But I've been thinking lately of
anger as poison, that if we hold on to too much, it does make us
sick. But it can also be medicinal and
small doses, you know, releasing it, letting someone else, it's
like something they need to experience or something.
I know that's how other people's anger has been to me.
And this conflict with this therapy group was like, I felt
so vivid in this last attempt to be understood.
And it made me think of something Alicia had shared
about. I had shared my experience.
And one of Alicia's reflections was some of her own experiences.
And she said I didn't know what I was giving.
Like there were times in her life where she was having these
interactions with people. And she said I just didn't know
what I was giving. And that has stuck with me.
That's been revelatory for me in just valuing my own energy, just
in existing, not in the doing of more, not in the doing of extra,
but knowing what I provide and being just the creator of my own
reality through this conflict. It has been really supportive.
So I'm definitely seeing myself show up differently.
And that was something that years of therapy didn't quite
integrate in the way that the covert did.
I want to say sorry that that happened and that it's just
reminding me how tender this work is.
And it was just making me really grateful for the ways in which
we've all been able to hold each other.
And yeah, I guess like the risks, how it can go, how it has
gone, how it still continues to go like that.
Not every place is a safe place to process in, to be in conflict
in. Yeah, just there's a lot of
trust here. There's a lot of trust that I
think all of you came in with from embodied astrology.
And then there's a lot of trust that we built together.
And I'm just feeling really grateful for it.
Olivia, I'm curious with all of this in mind, how you think
about conflict now and maybe how that perspective has changed
since you began with a? Cohort, I have things written
about how I first answered that question of what healthy
conflict is, and it's each person's feelings and
perspectives can be heard. And you know, the conflict is
this breach and harmony of a relationship and the process is
restoring harmony or not. Sometimes the relationship has
to look completely different or just be released.
But now I think the biggest difference is I'm not afraid of
the conflict because I think I saw conflict as avoidable by
just drinking and not being authentic.
Now I don't see that as an option.
There is choice, There's always choice, but that's not what I'm
choosing. I'll always choose conflict
because it is unavoidable. Wow.
That's big.
I love that. Thank you, Elena.
Was there a moment that you can remember where you experienced
yourself showing up differently or choosing differently as a
result of the work? And I think you sort of spoke
into a bit of that, but I'm curious if you have like a
particular moment that you can bring us into?
I think a big moment for me was realizing how I can't control
how other people perceive me. You know, not even my family and
how they perceive me probably has nothing to do with me, has
to do with, you know, like their own wounding.
And the only perception that really matters is that I trust
my own heart, trust my own heart more.
And knowing that my intentions matter, even if someone else
thinks differently. And I realized you can't resolve
conflict if you're the only one trying.
That helped me let go of some of the pressure I had been carrying
to resolve conflict. Think the wounding really came
from that. I was looking for a way to be
supported because I never received that right.
And from all of this, I learned that I'm my own best supporter.
So let's just be with that and not be concerned about what
other people are thinking because we have so much stuff
that we're dealing with in these times and things that are coming
up that we have, we don't want to deal with.
But the universe is pushing us to deal with it whether we like
it or not. So I think I just want to be
able to be that person that's going to be able to just stand
in that space, right, and not have to feel like I have to do
anything but just be present and witness, yeah.
Yes to all of that. Thank you.
You know how I heard your answer is like conflict work starts
with us. It's like an inside job is what
Amy and I have been saying. It starts in us, but it can't
end with us. You can't shoulder the work of
conflict alone. It takes, yeah, a lot of
presence with self and witnessing of self and then
bringing that to the other. And that is where, you know, we
have tools and we have influence, but we don't have
control. Chelsea, how about you?
When you think about conflict, has your perspective changed
since starting the cohort? How's that shifted for you?
I'm going to try and just kind of like summarize it.
So the first thing would be lead with connection.
So kind of keep in the forefront of my mind when a conflict's
coming up that I'm a loving person that is most likely
looking for deeper connection with the world.
And that's what is at the heart of this conflict.
The second thing would be to remember that I'm not alone,
that everyone experiences conflict, whether they're
willing to be the one that brings it up or not.
That there are lots of other feisty people who like to bring
up conflict. And they're, I'm a part of my
people. And that there's a, a role that
I'm serving in the world and, and a purpose.
And that I'm a part of this web serving my purpose #3 would be
like look for the pain behind the shame and build capacity in
holding that 4 would be. Don't expect to get resolution
with the person who you initially had the conflict with.
But that doesn't mean that there won't be healing for you
somewhere else, and that we are all connected beings.
And so even if the healing happens for you in a different
space, in a different place, in a different time, that still
feeds back into this web and generates peace and resolution.
Gorgeous, thank you. So concise.
Love a numbered list. Chelsea's doing happy dance and
Dr. While we have you, is there anything that you would add?
I love this conversation. It gives such a lovely window
into the kinds of quality of conversation that I think we had
in our individual cohorts, the way we've come together and a
lot has been shared really honestly.
So I'm appreciating that this was one of the things that came
up in our cohort was this focus on internal conflict that I
mean, I came into the cohort feeling like, I mean, quite an
active conflict with others. And I feel under attack and that
doesn't feel fair. And I'm, and I'm feeling that I
need to defend myself. And what emerged was there's a
lot of internal conflict. I think that's come up in the
last part of the conversation. There's a lot of internal
conflict that I have. I run how to voice needs.
And one of my patterns, I think is to voice needs in a way that
is a criticism. Like I'm already criticizing the
situation from what I perceive, that I've already voiced my
needs in some kind of way and they're not being met or that
there's something kind of unfair happening.
And so it doesn't leave a lot of space, doesn't leave a lot of
space for the people to meet me. And so doing some of that
internal work to figure out how to do the more vulnerable thing,
which is to say what I need, you know, and if it's not met,
that's fine, then we that's information.
So for me, I was looking back through some old notes like
journal entries and things from a few years ago.
And I had written this note about conflict is new
information coming in, which I don't think was an insight of
mine. I think that was a conversation
I had with someone else. So I was, it was from 20/21.
And I was thinking, well, this is, you know, these conflict
things are been live for me for a long time, obviously way
before 20/21 as well. But some of these insights I
think are going to keep coming up for us, like they're going to
keep churning around. And so I think what I take away,
one of the things that we landed on I think as a cohort was also
around conflict is a kind of intimacy and to be choiceful
about who we're in that intimacy with.
So I really resonate with Chelsea's point about it can be
a bit for connection. And I think at times there is a
response which is this is not a healthy connection for me.
And I want to be, I want to do that work of conflict in ways
and with people that it's generative and not destructive
of my sense of self, of my person, of my safety, of my
livelihood, of my stability. Like when those kinds of
conflicts come up that that threaten some of those things
that that I have to find other ways forward.
And I, I think there is something that Olivia said early
on about different visions of freedom and that maybe sometimes
the conflict is around that. And I'm very oriented to us
getting free. And I think it is good to fight
for that. And sometimes we do have to push
against systems which are oppressing us or others.
And there is a huge no that comes up in my body around that.
And and I feel really strong and galvanized around that.
And and I want us to be in a web and in connection and for us all
to evolve. And I think there's something
really healthy about being in a in a network that is nourishing
and to do that work in a collective that is like willing
to witness and see and do that work.
And then we work out the way, you know, into other kinds of
systems that maybe aren't, aren't as nourishing for us.
So the Co work for me was a nourishing space to be held and
I I acknowledge that not all the spaces I'm in are like that.
I still want to show up and do the work where I can.
Yeah, it's been good to be here. I've learned so much even in
this time together. So thank you everyone.
Yeah, I feel that. I feel the feeling of the space
that we've held through these cohorts and what a joy to like,
bring them together. I really appreciate all of you
being so open and honest. And yeah, just bringing
yourselves to this. And I, I wanted to ask if you
have questions for Amy and I because we've shot so many
questions your way. Feel free to.
My question for Amy and Alicia is what's next?
I'm like what, what, how do we keep growing?
Like what CR was saying about this being the nursing network
and yeah, how do we keep moving this work forward?
Well, in terms of the conflict cohort, there is certainly this
desire. There has been a desire
throughout for folks to continue the work.
And so there's a question there and an invitation there I think
of like what it might look like to snowball all four cohorts
together into some sort of maybe monthly gathering where we
support one another and just continue to share our
experiences and unpack what conflict is because it's
constantly changing and morphing and to learn from one another
and Skillshare. And in terms of what comes next,
you know, it's to hear you say CR, that it's been a nourishing
space. It just reminded me that we've
been running this through Jupiter and Cancer and we have
talked so little about astrology.
It's kind of funny, but I think it's been here throughout.
You know, I think we've been held in the warmth and
nourishing care and the expansive vision of belonging
that is Jupiter and Cancer throughout this series.
And that it's provided a really safe container for folks to sort
of see what's under our protective shells.
You know, whether you're Cancer identified or not, we all have
cancer somewhere in our charts. So and then, you know, for Amy
and I, we're looking forward to Jupiter and Leo and feeling like
this Aries and Leo energy coming in, this fire energy.
And it's still in the beginning stages of conceptualization, but
we really want to work with Jupiter and Leo and bring in
ideas of, like, storytelling and myth making about ourselves and
bringing agency into our birth charts and being able to tell
the story of ourselves. So much of the time you get an
astrology reading and someone else tells you about you and you
go, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is me.
Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much.
But like, how often do we get to go?
Here's who I am. Let me tell you about this
placement. Let me tell you about a time in
my life that really exemplifies this placement.
Let me tell you about a dream or a vision that I have for myself
that I think really speaks to this placement.
And So what we're hoping to do is open up a space where people
get to tell the stories about themselves and to really, like,
sit with your own chart and find agency and find imagination and
dream and lean into who you are and really like, cheerlead
yourself and like, cheerlead each other and have fun and play
and be creative. And we're very excited.
There's lots of ideas in the space, but that is generally the
feeling of what we want to create for the next series.
Amy, do you have anything you want to add to that?
There's something of like the solar being this something just
seems to be coming through really loud and strong about the
spark and the impetus to be like more fully self expressed.
And I guess for me, there's been like a down and in looking down
and in looking inward and meeting each other in that very
safely contained kind of way. And there's a bit about the open
out and being like perceived, which that there's a literal
felt a lurch in my belly when I said that as a Scorpio.
So but as we've done this reflection and shifted
relationships with ourselves, there's something about shifting
my relationship with self-expression that is kind of
channelling through these ideas. And that like the OK, I've got a
bit of a different idea about how I see the world on the
inside and how I perceive the world and experience the world.
I'm like, I wouldn't be it out loud in a different kind of way.
Yeah. So there's definitely something
about like solar expression and, and how that is an internal
thing, the thing I have agency over.
And it's also a thing that's happening in a constellation and
in a context and in a collective.
And that like that binary of like, I'm either being me or I'm
there for the collective. It's like something that I just
want to fuck up in a particular kind of way and whatever comes
next. And this has been a really
lovely sense of echoing back of the the space and when it's
created and given me an idea that maybe it's not just a 12
week thing and like the idea it can continue feels very alive
here. So thank you so much, all of you
for for joining us in this conversation.
Wow, that's absolutely blown me away to have that conversation
feel so resonant of the space and like there's something
strange for me in the feeling of what this series has been.
I feel like we've created something, but we haven't
created anything but we did. But we like, we put an
invitation out, like an invitation and a gift at the
same time and like we created something, but there's something
is just space and there's nothing in the space, but
there's something in the space and I can't, it's like a secret
third thing that I can't language.
And I'm feeling it and how it's been experienced and I felt it
after, after the sessions. I had the feeling, I had the
hope that if we brought everyone together that there would be a
similar feeling because it's not like, you know, the work that we
did in every cohort was different.
And I think in that way it felt different.
But there was this pervasive feeling of, I mean, I want to
say radical acceptance, but not radical in the way that we use
radical, gentle, all-encompassing, radical in
that it's rare in the way that people usually behave with each
other in spaces. And yeah, I think that the level
of generosity, presence, care, witnessing differentiation was
so present in today's conversation.
And that is the feeling of the space.
There was a point in a, in the conversation with everyone where
I was like, I don't think that anyone's really going to be able
to walk away and say, oh, OK, So like, this is what happens for
people in the cohort because it's so varied.
I think assuredly you come out with a a different and more
accepting relationship to yourself and then that cascades.
It changes everything. I think that that was really
self-evident. But the ways that people got
there and what they came in with and how they approached it and
what that does for them, like whether they engage with
conflict, more or less, actually, that was all so
varied. And I thought that that was also
really reflective of that plurality that exists in the
space. Absolutely.
And just hearing that reflected back is really satisfying
actually, because I remember when we were imagining the
space, one of the things that felt so important to both of us,
I think was that it's a space where we can be differentiated.
And it's a space where people can share common experiences and
be their own of different cells. And also that the differences
can nourish relationships where those differences exist or where
similar differences exist. And yeah, just the agency that's
been possible and accessible and felt, I think safe enough to go
there. Like just that container and
what can emerge within that container.
It's so Jupiter in Cancer code. It of like how we can expand and
grow with that sense of safety. And I want to just name that
there's something in a thread of safety being mentioned in that
conversation. This made me feel a little bit
uneasy and like it's a complicated concept, right?
Safety and like the idea that we could promise that or like offer
that It's such a different thing to so many people.
I really just kind of feel a little hesitant and reluctant
about the the repeating themes of that coming up.
And also I'm not sure I have another language for for what
that is connecting it with things.
So like it's safety and risk. It's safe to risk.
It's safe to feel the range of what I'm feeling.
It's safe to be uncomfortable. It's safe to be at odds with
what's in the room. It's, and I don't mean safe in
like AI will never be harmed. I will never come up against
anything that is really activating or challenging or,
you know, disruptive for me, but that there is enough containment
and enough generosity and grace in the room that there's a
cushion or a buffer to that in some way.
Yeah, no, I mean, that's really interesting.
I didn't even really think about all the times that the word
safety was brought up. But yeah, I mean, I've heard,
I've heard in other spaces too, where people are like this isn't
a safe space because I cannot promise that.
Like I cannot guarantee you safety in this space.
I can. I can promise you
responsibility, though, you know, like an intention.
And yeah, I think you're right. And I think I think in a way I
just felt like, Oh my gosh, are we really lucky with the way
that this is gone? But, you know, I will say too,
that what we don't have here are divergent experiences
necessarily, right? There are folks that have kept
in touch with us from these cohorts and been effusive and
been really engaged with EA since and there are folks who
haven't and we don't really know what those divergent experiences
are. And it's worth saying that.
And like in some cases, in a very few instances, we do know
what those cases are. And like this, these cohorts
didn't go smoothly for everyone and it wasn't for everyone.
And and I don't think that that takes away from what it is, you
know, I don't think that it takes away from what we have Co
created here and been able to achieve.
But I think it's really important if we are going to
uplift divergent. And really as I think about
Jupiter and Cancer and the assignment, you know, it's like,
how can we expand our capacity and, and our definition of
belonging and who belongs And yeah, how can we really just
sort of like take uniformity out of it, you know, and not really
like feel like belonging is only for a select few or a belonging
is only if you adhere in these certain ways or you fit into the
container in these ways. And, and don't rock the boat and
don't have a divergent experience.
And I, yeah, I really just feel that one of the beauties of this
space has been the capacity building for difference.
Like that was definitely the big meta work is, is building
capacity for difference and extending care to those who are
different from us even when yeah, that can feel like a
really dangerous prospects. So true.
And I do feel it's important to name that.
Yeah, that different, those diversion experiences.
And that's totally right. And it's true.
We have been in some process of building capacity to hold
difference and in some process of building capacity to hold our
own difference from others, like developing our relationships
with ourselves. I don't have a lot more right
now. I'm just lots of sign ups.
It's firing lots of connections, pinging, but not many words.
I feel that. Well, thank you for being on
this continued journey with me. I'm so glad.
I'm really so grateful and excited to continue wherever
this takes us next with the cohort and and beyond.
Likewise, Thank you. Thanks for listening to this
conversation today as we release this podcast.
Saturn and Aries is sextile Pluto and Aquarius.
Saturn and Pluto are both slow moving planets and this aspect
between them is generational. It's something that as a
collective, we are all being influenced by and creating
together. One way we're feeling this
aspect at Embodied Astrology is as the need to show up for
collective leadership that is created and held by truly
empowered individuals. But in order to show up with
empowerment and accountability for our work in the world, we
need to be able to hold ourselves in our totality and
take care of each other's wholeness.
This work is not easy. In many ways we have been taught
to do the exact opposite, to judge each other, to mistrust
and fight with each other in our differences, which then of
course leads to internalization of shame, othering abandonment,
violence and depression. But it doesn't have to be this
way. Our differences are the sites of
our most generative creativity, our greatest healing, and our
most profound strength. Developing the capacity to be
ourselves, proudly, boldly and compassionately with attunement
for the world's that we are a part of and the relationships
that hold us is the work that will bring this world back
together. It is the work that will lead us
to the kinds of healing and solutions we need for the
problems we face right now. Saturn only recently entered
Aries earlier this year in February, and this is the
beginning of an almost 30 year cycle around the Zodiac.
Pluto entered Aquarius in 2024, and these two planets moving
into their new signs are not alone.
Neptune entered Aries shortly before Saturn and Uranus will be
moving into Gemini at the end of April.
Together, these four planets form what is called a minor
trine or a talent trine. Pluto and Uranus and Aquarius
and Gemini are trying each other, and both planets are
sextiling Neptune and Saturn and Aries.
This talent trine describes a time of powerful change for
individuals and collectives. It invites us to rethink and
reimagine what it means to be an individual and alive, as well as
part of a community and network of other living beings.
It will require us to dramatically and rapidly up
level our intelligences and remember our innate capacities
for curiosity, connection, communication, and
collaboration. All of this is crucial as we
face an overwhelming multitude of complex problems that have
been created through patterns of individualism, oppression,
othering, domination, and mistrust of difference.
At Embodied Astrology, we are orienting towards this moment
and all that it is, bringing through practices of deep
embodied experiencing and finding radical, liberating and
joyful ways of connecting and reconnecting.
If you enjoy this episode and if any of this resonates for you, I
hope you'll consider joining us in some of our spaces at
Embodied Astrology, if you haven't already.
We welcome all levels of astrology knowledge and all
bodies. You can find upcoming classes,
workshops and other offerings on our website.