1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,680 It's the 37th week of the year guys, and there's some some real 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,400 optimism in the uranium market. You know, I'm hearing all of 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,840 these rumours surfacing around Twitter everywhere that, you 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,320 know, there's, there's four prices as high as 85 bucks per 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880 pound being thrown around, you know, post sort of WNA and, and 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,880 big lofty ceiling prices in that, in that term market as 7 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:20,800 well. I'm so keen to get into that. 8 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,840 And we're also going to look under the hood at the the 9 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,240 Palladium and platinum markets. Thanks to Sibanya, Stillwater 10 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:28,440 stumbling and China mate, they're sending us some mixed 11 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,720 messages in the rare earth market as well. 12 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,200 Maybe as usual, I can't wait to bring you all of that today as 13 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,280 Maddie's over East. But first we got a funny voice 14 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,240 memo sent through to us the other day, didn't we team? 15 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,160 Oh, we did we. Did indeed? 16 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:42,800 Let's RIP it, I reckon. Let's have a listen. 17 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:43,840 Let's. Play this one for the money 18 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,960 miners Zai. I'm out in lock and fold, belt 19 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,800 man in RC rig trying to work out the world underneath me from the 20 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,960 scale of a piece of grapple. And what do you know what pops 21 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:04,480 up in front of me but a tablet with Axis mining technology and 22 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,960 displaying the surveys that the drillers have just completed. 23 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:15,200 While dust is flying, the chips are being washed and by God the 24 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,040 hole is bending like a banana. Straight from the mouth of one 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,640 of Australia's best geos, hey? Mate, that's bogan owe you a 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,800 carton for that wonderful bit of promo in the absence of Maddie. 27 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,720 Didn't have to RIP it out ourselves team, but go to hell. 28 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:32,240 What is going on in the uranium world? 29 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,240 Yeah. So as we know the West nail for 30 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,160 those who don't know, the World Nuclear Association conference 31 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,320 was held a few weeks ago. Big anticipation this year with 32 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,400 you being obviously a fair bit higher than previous years when 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,720 the conference has been held that this is where you have all 34 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,640 the uranium companies, fuel buyers and all the like having 35 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,840 to talks, you know everything you and nuclear. 36 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,920 And there was a great article that come up over the weekend 37 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,640 from Kuppi called you need to focus on term. 38 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,080 So this is from Kuppi's Corner and it had some interesting 39 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,360 takeaways from the conference and sort of looking at you and 40 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,560 nuclear going forward. Puppy is Harris Cooperman. 41 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:22,120 Isn't that right? JD? 42 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,280 If. Yeah, he's a a fundy over in the 43 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,520 States who put a couple feelers out to to get on the show. 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,560 But for those that aren't familiar, he's a fund manager 45 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,240 who's been watching the uranium space for for quite some time, 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,360 as well as a few of the other commodities that we that we like 47 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:40,560 to like to follow. Mate I. 48 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:44,400 Remember looking at his funds performance and just being like. 49 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,160 That real? That was my first thoughts as 50 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:48,560 well mate. That's. 51 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,760 A pretty good, pretty good performance, but yeah. 52 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,120 So what were those takeaways, Ally? 53 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,560 So first one which I think to be honest you could apply this to. 54 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,480 A lot of. Commodities. 55 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,080 No pun intended to a few different commodities, but he 56 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,400 highlighted sort of again that investors are very fixated on 57 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,680 the most recent data points, you know, sort of bit like goldfish 58 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,680 and a bit I'll pick at times. So, you know, we saw uranium 59 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,320 spot price, you know, peak over 100 bucks a pound early in the 60 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,640 year. It's since fall back from then 61 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,800 and this pull back seems like investors are sort of obsessing 62 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,640 and catastrophizing over and it's sort of been amplified by a 63 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:37,040 bit of a misunderstanding of uranium market and how it 64 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,520 operates, which sort of naturally leads to take away 65 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:47,160 too, which is the spot price is a price, it isn't the price. 66 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,200 And I think, I think we we all know Ali to to what you're 67 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,360 saying there, what the spot price is, what the term price 68 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,440 is. But reading through the article, 69 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,200 I thought it was, it was pretty sort of funny and interesting. 70 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,520 So I'll just read out a a couple of sentences. 71 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,560 Firstly, talking about the the spot price. 72 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,040 So to start with, it's where miners choose to sell their 73 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,360 pounds or purchase pounds when they can't meet contractual 74 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,480 obligations. It's also a market where 75 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,680 momentum based hedge funds go to express a view in another sort 76 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,279 of sentence, he says it's a a market where enriches dump their 77 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,120 excess pounds from under feeding. 78 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,080 So what you can essentially take from that is it's it's the place 79 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,000 where hedge funds carry traders, producers, utilities, 80 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,040 speculators all go, go. And you know, he, he summed it 81 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,760 up quite well with it being the most quoted price out there, but 82 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,480 also largely the most, well, the most effectively irrelevant 83 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,720 price that you see out there. Any he put some numbers to that. 84 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,480 It only makes up 10% roughly of the pounds that utilities get. 85 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,520 And then on the flip side of that, you've obviously got the, 86 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,280 the term price, which in simple terms for people that haven't 87 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:00,280 followed uranium for, for some time is where the, the utilities 88 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:03,000 go and lock in the longer term contracts. 89 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,040 These are, you know, executed over many years and they've got 90 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,400 prices that reference ceilings, they're reference floors. 91 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,680 They're not just flat prices, they involve periodic deliveries 92 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:15,560 as well. I. 93 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,480 Always thought that, you know, the difference between the, you 94 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,800 know, the focus on the spot price and then you look at the 95 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,680 the, the term price and you know, the term price is the one 96 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,720 that matters. But you know, like maybe a 97 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,800 misconception that that I and, and even and other investors out 98 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,560 there kind of had is I always sort of thought the spot price 99 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,760 might have been like the tail that wags the dog kind of thing. 100 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,120 But yeah, I think this article kind of questions that that 101 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,080 interpretation as well. I was gonna say this meme Tuppy 102 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,760 had in his cool trap probably very accurately sums that up, 103 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,000 right? Yeah, that's, that's a good one. 104 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,080 I also, you know, find it kind of funny, right? 105 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,440 Because I'm sure this is where a bit of Cappy's kind of edge 106 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,480 comes from being able to take the differentiated longer term 107 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,440 view. So maybe it's a bit tongue in 108 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,000 cheek that he calls it out or he's, he's obviously, you know, 109 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,560 disclosed at the bottom of the the piece that he's got an 110 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,960 interest in uranium at the moment. 111 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,240 But I'm sure this shorter term focus which is commonplace in in 112 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,640 markets today and I think it has been for us as long as time is 113 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,400 where he actually makes a bit of his alpha. 114 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,840 Absolutely, and I'll quite like this other quote from his 115 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:23,600 article as well. He says if the vast majority of 116 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,440 the total transaction volume takes place in the term market, 117 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,240 then it seems odd that so many investors use the most recent 118 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,640 spot trade to guide the sentiment. 119 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,520 Instead, they should be focused on the term market. 120 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,080 But unfortunately there are a number of problems with using 121 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,720 the term market as a benchmark because a lot of those contracts 122 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,280 as, as you sort of highlighted JD, they're, they're bespoke and 123 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:47,600 sort of quite unique to particular situations, mines, 124 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,160 fuel buys, etcetera. They're often, you know, the 125 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,840 terms of that are pretty confidential. 126 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:56,080 The actual volume of these transactions is a bit on the 127 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,240 lower side as well. So there's sort of the pros and 128 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,160 cons, but again, just just highlighting that focus on this 129 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,600 is where the majority of pricing is determined over here, not, 130 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,120 not the not necessarily the spot price what's. 131 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,200 Actually happened to the term market over like the last six 132 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,360 months when you know spot's been under pressure and and equities 133 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,280 have certainly been under pressure like the term market's 134 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,960 actually each tier, right. Yeah, I think, I think the 135 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,680 important thing that that people are picking up on and clearly 136 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,440 that's what Cappy's honing in on here is that you see a a gradual 137 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,680 rise in the floors and the ceilings. 138 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,760 And obviously they've got they've got features in them 139 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,400 that can allow that to rise going forward in time as well. 140 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,560 But when they're sort of priced today, what he's talking about 141 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,600 floors of 85 bucks, ceilings of 135 that that's not throughout 142 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,520 the rest of the life of the contract that can, you know, 143 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,880 elevate over time. Again, if that's the way in 144 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,400 which the uranium price trends. But the broader trend of having 145 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,480 those floors being set higher and the ceiling set higher is 146 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,320 the positive trend that people are sort of fixing on, right? 147 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,560 Yeah. And probably the the final take 148 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,240 away from this piece is from Cuppy's piece is that utilities 149 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,320 are increasingly hungry to contract for uranium. 150 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,760 You know, supposedly utilities are submitting, you know, to 151 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,280 market RFP's requests for proposal in the next few weeks 152 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,920 sort of post WNA mining companies have sort of sensed 153 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,320 this change in sentiment and you know raising pricing and 154 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,960 anecdotally sort of as you sort of mentioned, JD heard that 155 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:35,120 miners are now quoting $85 floors and $135 ceilings. 156 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,039 That's wild, right? Which is $85 floor when your 157 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:41,799 spot's 80 thereabouts. It's kind of kind of weird. 158 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,000 Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's pretty huge, right. 159 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,720 But I guess the question to ask is that's all good from the 160 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,800 mining company side, but are utilities actually willing to 161 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,960 transact at these sort of elevated prices that are, you 162 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,760 know, especially from the ceilings as far as the ceilings 163 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,120 concerned well above current spot prices? 164 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:05,040 And is the lack of transaction volume on these term contracts, 165 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,560 is it due to this Mexican standoff between the the miners 166 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,600 and the fuel buys? Or is it because there's a bit 167 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,640 of a dearth of miners with uncontracted new term 168 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,320 production? You know, perhaps it's a bit of 169 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,920 both. And I guess that dynamic can 170 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:29,360 really only last so long given there's already pretty low 171 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,040 uranium inventories. We're coming into the Northern 172 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,480 hemisphere winter. So they'll start getting chewed 173 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,880 up. You know, there's been guidance 174 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,760 cuts, as we've seen recently from the world's biggest 175 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,520 producer. So there's a lot of, you know, 176 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,760 things sort of have played out and are playing out now and 177 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,720 imagine some of that pricing for the term market will, you know 178 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,280 begin to crystallise soon can. You point the alley on bit of a 179 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,080 stand off. Gosh, I, I, I would have always 180 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,560 thought like the initial kind of, you know, interactional 181 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:09,000 interest in, in securing supply. Like it's the it's the, you 182 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,960 know, the nuclear buyer that kind of has that power to begin 183 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,280 with to actually, you know, initiate, discuss discussions to 184 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,000 lock in supply because they're trying to whatever they're, you 185 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,840 know, they've got to meet their like contractual obligations and 186 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:23,960 they've got like they're doing the power forecast. 187 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,880 But then it's the setting, the actual price is sort of where 188 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,240 where some degree of leverage might come to the come to the 189 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,960 miners. But yeah, I'm the, the, the 190 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,280 rhetoric on Twitter would be that that Mexican standoff is in 191 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,400 some part just due to the, the cyclical nature and actually 192 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,280 these contracting cycles. And you know, rather than kind 193 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,320 of seeing this, this homogeneous flow of contracting kind of 194 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,200 happening throughout the year, it's actually, you know, these 195 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,280 these multi year kind of cycles. And you know there can be a 196 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,960 Stampede of everyone trying to do at the same time at all, 197 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,680 which you know people with the bull thesis will point to. 198 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,720 Yeah, I think you've, you've framed the, the discussion 199 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,800 really well there, Ally, with the the two sides. 200 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,440 I mean, we've, I've personally got no, no great insight into 201 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,520 it, although I'm pretty interested because one way or 202 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,920 another it seems like we'll find out in the, you know, the 203 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,360 relative near future what the outcome is going to be. 204 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,040 And that would sort of imply a movement one way or another. 205 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,200 A sort of line that really stood out from, from the article was 206 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,160 that the uranium market moves at glacial pace their utilities, 207 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,960 after all. And I think that's firmly what 208 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,120 we're kind of seeing here. I just sort of caveat the, the 209 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,000 article, if people go and read it themselves, you sort of 210 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,920 finish reading that and you've, you've got a bit of an 211 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,400 optimistic view, You've got a really bullish view. 212 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,840 And you see the, the sort of downtrodden sentiment in the 213 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,000 uranium stocks and more broadly across the, the nuclear kind of 214 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,000 universe at the moment. And that that's a sign that kind 215 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,200 of gets me excited. But anecdotally, we'd heard from 216 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,600 other people as well out there that, you know, it wasn't quite 217 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,880 as as bullish as the article might have you believe. 218 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,560 There were people with different points of view saying the, the 219 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,440 utilities out there, they're pretty content. 220 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,240 They're not feeling the need to rush in. 221 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:09,880 But, you know, who knows? Maybe that's a broader disregard 222 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,600 that they've had for the uranium producers out there for a while 223 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,360 to come, and maybe that comes and bites them in the ass in the 224 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,560 future. Who kind of knows? 225 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,560 Yeah, another, another piece of, you know, feedback we'd received 226 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:26,640 is it it seemed like the mining of uranium was a bit of an 227 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,760 afterthought for fuel buyers, which to be honest could be a a 228 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,160 blessing and a curse for them. Sort of think thinking in that 229 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,600 way. You know, some people believe 230 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,160 that because that a problem is sort of addressed the next 12 231 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,280 months of the sulfuric acid shortfall, which has been quite 232 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,080 a topical issue the last few months. 233 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:51,280 So it seemed like a lot of the finance guys and gals reckon 234 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,400 yous going to the moon, but then, you know, you had nuclear 235 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,320 insiders sort of a bit more muted on that front. 236 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,760 So yeah, definitely a bit of a range of anecdotes and 237 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,720 perspectives coming out from the conference, sort of depending on 238 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,280 the on the party I guess. Yeah, Speaking of conferences, 239 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,280 Ali. Oh, Speaking of conferences, we 240 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,960 have to talk about AUS big next event coming up, Drill 24, only 241 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,640 29 sleeps away guys. Oh, wait, wait, we're. 242 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,200 Going to be there. And we're going to be there too. 243 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,040 So look, if you haven't got your tickets yet, links in the show 244 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,320 notes, get your tickets sorted. It's October 15th to 17th in 245 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,520 Perth at the Convention Centre. It's as simple as that. 246 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,080 We've got, you know, they'll be showcasing all the latest and 247 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,920 greatest in drilling tech and equipment and drillers take note 248 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,200 because reps from the major modern companies based here in 249 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,040 Perth will be there. So get yourself there. 250 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,600 That's the mining tech mate. Will help you. 251 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,560 Will help you drill more efficiently and cheaply. 252 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,200 Yes, Oh, if if anything in this cost inflationary environment 253 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,760 that's all you can ask for. And like Trev said, we're all 254 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,880 going to be there. Maddie's going to be doing a bit 255 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,800 of M saying it is all happening at drill 24. 256 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,920 That's. The real selling point did 257 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,320 Maddie M saying the show big tickets. 258 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:10,440 They're in the show notes. To. 259 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:17,000 A another, another commodity market, JD, where, you know, 260 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,520 we're seeing a good chunk of supply curtailment maybe not 261 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,760 coming in the uranium space, but this is, this is five years ago 262 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,480 you saw plenty of curtailment in the uranium space. 263 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,880 But yeah, the the Palladium made Palladium surging. 264 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,760 Wasn't that, wasn't that uranium curtailment a sign of things to 265 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,040 come? For the patient investors out 266 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,800 there, it's almost like this. It's very cyclical nature of 267 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,840 commodities where you have over investment and then lag time and 268 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,920 construction and then commodities. 269 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,520 It's kind of, it's kind of funny if you zoom out. 270 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,720 So we, we both listened to this one mate and I, you know, we, we 271 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,760 spoke about it this morning. It was, it was really 272 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:01,080 interesting and it's a basket of commodities PGMS that are just 273 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,680 really interesting. I think the, the first time we 274 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,920 spoke about it was a good three or four months ago and we 275 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,680 described the, the hated environment that I think perks 276 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,680 all of us up and really stands out to those, those investors 277 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,720 that love trolling for, for beating up stuff, right. 278 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,920 Mate, I think it's the only like if you're interested in a 279 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,680 commodity sector to like, you know, have positive PNL, it's 280 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,120 the only way to to do that effectively over time is to look 281 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,800 for the look. Look for when the the commodity 282 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,000 is absolutely in the in the doldrums. 283 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,040 That's when. 100%. Excited as opposed to follow 284 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,000 the, you know, the whims of human emotion, which is follow 285 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,560 the thing that's going up. Yeah. 286 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,320 So I mean that that is the perfect segue to Subarnay 287 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,680 Stillwater. So to to simplify the business 288 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,760 real quick for people that aren't familiar, they are, 289 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,480 they're not obviously listed in Australia. 290 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,680 They're to NYSE and a Joburg listing. 291 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,360 I'll flash up their guidance to give you a a flavour of what 292 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,280 they kind of produce for people listening in. 293 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,120 It's PGMS across the the US and South Africa. 294 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,920 There's also gold in South Africa. 295 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,600 In Europe, you've got a nickel refinery and a lithium project 296 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,400 that they've sunk a fair bit of money in. 297 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,520 Bizarrely, you've also got the Century Zinc operations as well 298 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,240 as Mount Lyell here, both in Australia. 299 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,600 And then there's also a uranium project which is earmarked to be 300 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,560 sold. But in, in revenue terms, just 301 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:36,200 kind of think 1/3 gold, 2/3 PGMS in you know kind of simplified 302 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,080 terms. And what did you guys sort of 303 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,360 get out of the the call that happened? 304 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:43,640 The call was really interesting Ally. 305 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,960 So it was two hours long, a big, a big presentation because there 306 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,680 was a bit to kind of chew on what they'd kind of done on an 307 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,960 operational management balance sheet kind of front and then AAQ 308 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,280 and A at the end. So the, the features that stood 309 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:02,360 out are the the losses at an income statement level as well 310 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,520 as in sort of free cash terms. The income statement losses come 311 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,800 broadly off the back of a bunch of impairments that they had to 312 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,640 do. That is because like Trev said, 313 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,599 they're curtailing production in the US Unfortunately, that also 314 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:21,280 leads to roughly 800 job losses at in Montana where they have 315 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,079 their operations. And then like I sort of said, 316 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,240 the the, the sort of underlying theme of saying our balance 317 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,360 sheet is OK. You know if you if you do listen 318 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,080 to the call, it might remind you a little bit of min res out 319 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,600 there, although there are some sort of key differences which 320 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,520 will kind of hone in when we get to the more broader Platts 321 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,600 Palladium market near the end. So it's. 322 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,320 Pretty interesting, right, because there was a lot of yeah 323 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,800 market rhetoric in the lead up for this like earnings event. 324 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,280 And I think in some ways like there was an expectation that 325 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,640 they would, you know, completely curtail production from the 326 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,200 Stillwater OPS in Montana there they sort of, you know, half 327 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:02,760 curtailed them and stock basically shut up. 328 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,720 I think on expectation that we've like that that'll, that's 329 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,800 basically kind of the, the, the, the bottoming of the, you know, 330 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,520 Palladium market price sort of downturn. 331 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,040 Yeah. And I mean also sort of playing 332 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:17,960 in perhaps that's the the bottoming of the the 333 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,560 restructuring that kind of have to do. 334 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,240 I mean it, it sounds like it might sort of save money and all 335 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,880 this sort of stuff, but just shutting off a mine is expensive 336 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,800 as well, which they kind of pointed out, you know, running 337 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,960 things on care and maintenance everything. 338 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,880 And then there's but they'll. Lose the money from there like 339 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,960 that operation was, yeah. Yeah, that they, they were 340 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,880 losing money. So interestingly they talk about 341 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,680 chalking off 200,000 ounces of 2 E production. 342 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,640 That's about a halving of what they're producing out of there 343 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,280 whilst trying to get the oil in sustaining costs down to about 344 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,680 US 1000, which is not the easiest thing when we always 345 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,480 sort of think of logistics and economies of scale in mining. 346 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,560 On the balance sheet front, they were talking up seeking 347 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,920 prepayments. That's kind of their their final 348 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,800 piece of looking after the the balance sheet. 349 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,400 So they've done a whole bunch of other things. 350 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,760 They've, you know, renegotiated their their debt covenants to 351 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,280 buy them a bit more breathing room. 352 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,480 They've already got $100 million prepayment for the gold that 353 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,000 they're going to produce in the near term, but they want to get 354 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,720 this UUS $700 million prepayment over the line. 355 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,160 Now the the language around this is kind of interesting because 356 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,080 the question came in, aren't you just kind of giving away your, 357 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,840 your future upside? So the response was that they're 358 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,400 very much focused on, you know, settling out streams and 359 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,360 whatever other sort of premayment, prepayment 360 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,160 structures you can think of for their secondary products. 361 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:41,480 And they pretty much said analysts don't care about 362 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:42,920 whatever your secondary product is. 363 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,200 So you may as well just kind of prepaid it, which is. 364 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,880 Then then why did they invest in lithium and fucking you've? 365 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,960 Been in that one, Trevor, we'll get there. 366 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,600 So they they looked to really address the the equity raise 367 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,400 concerns. You know, this is I guess the 368 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,080 the min raise kind of comparison in, in my head again, they 369 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:05,840 referenced it plenty in the call. 370 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,440 They referenced it in the presentations in the in the half 371 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,160 year docs. So they pretty much said the the 372 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,280 perception should now be moot that we need to capital raise 373 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,800 so. I'm not sure if it's completely 374 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,000 done and dusted, but I think they have gone a long way to to 375 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,040 assuring investors by Catalian production, I mean, what we 376 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,440 mentioned here today is a kind of almost a drop in the ocean. 377 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,800 They've done a lot of this over 2023 in the first half of this 378 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,520 year already. So lithium Trav, the the Calibre 379 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,400 lithium project is 1. I think you might be referencing 380 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,400 they got €500 million in financing for this. 381 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,640 I want first production in 2026. It's up in in Finland. 382 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:50,480 I mean, putting aside for a moment the idea that they've got 383 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,520 lithium in amongst the portfolio with zinc and undeveloped 384 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,720 uranium and copper project PGMS, goldmine in the US in South 385 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,840 Africa, that they're very adamant that with regional 386 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,920 managers they can manage this all. 387 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:10,000 But I kind of think for, you know, poor old investors, it's a 388 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,840 bit too much to to kind of take on. 389 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,080 There's stuff kind of everywhere. 390 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,160 I'm very concerned that, you know, hydroxide production who 391 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:24,040 has done that well in the in the last few years of the kind of 392 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,720 western miners. I'm sorry, no one really. 393 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,040 I just, I just think it's very hard. 394 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:31,880 I think that could be a potential money sink. 395 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,640 They've got rhyolite Ridge eye knees project. 396 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:40,440 That was, you know, a big sort of announcement in back in 2021. 397 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,680 A new century as well. Yeah. 398 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,720 There has been some sort of confusing, Yeah, there's been 399 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,400 some confusing, confusing acquisitions, right? 400 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,360 Yeah, yeah, real confusing capital allocation at certain 401 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:58,560 points, but yeah, I actually think, I think when, you know, 402 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,760 Once Upon a time this was a gold company, it was a buying a gold 403 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,600 and yeah, they acquired the PGM business in South Africa, which 404 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:07,840 was like a phenomenal acquisition. 405 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,400 Actually I kind of delivered some brilliant free cash flow, 406 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,280 especially especially during the, the big PGM kind of spike 407 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,240 that happened in kind of 2021-2022 around that Russia, 408 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,440 Ukraine invasion period. And it, it was so like 409 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,280 remarkable the free cash flow that came in that like if you, 410 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,360 if you look at Sibanya's market cap today in U.S. dollars, it's 411 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:41,720 about 2.5 billion US in in market, sorry, 2.7 billion U.S. 412 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,240 market cap today. Well, in 2021 financial year, 413 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,680 Subarnier generated 3.4 billion operating cash flow, which kind 414 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,360 of converted to US 2.5 billion in unlevered free cash flow. 415 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:56,760 So like that's the kind of capability the business has to, 416 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,280 you know, spit out free cash flow in the good times. 417 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,360 But when you Chuck in the debt and the pretty average capital 418 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,840 allocation that that's sort of, you know, happened since it 419 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,960 probably explains some of the substantial selling off the 420 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,920 stock has had, but also the interesting kind of part to some 421 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,080 some investors. So we're really trying to, you 422 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,120 know, get, get, get talk if they're, if they're predicting a 423 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,440 turn around too. Yeah. 424 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:25,720 I mean, they were a $15 billion market cap companies a few years 425 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:26,600 ago. It's kind of wild. 426 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,600 And it is interesting what you kind of touched on there, Trav, 427 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,080 how the company kind of came together. 428 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:34,600 You got the PGM acquisitions and I think 2016 and then Stillwater 429 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,240 2017. And you know, a few years later, 430 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,480 you know, after you've had a few years of just Ripper cash flows, 431 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,360 you end up with a good bit of it just being spent on all these 432 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:46,040 kind of random things. But I mean, at the end of the 433 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,000 day, right now, they're a company that is, you know, 434 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,080 financially leveraged and operationally leveraged to PGMS 435 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,800 and gold. That's where they are kind of 436 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,120 right now. They're super beaten up. 437 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,600 They've got a bit of optionality slash cash sinks in, in lithium 438 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,600 and uranium. But it's a it's an interesting 439 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,840 company to kind of look at to, to round out on the, I mean to 440 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,240 kind of find our way into what's happened in Palladium and Platts 441 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,960 markets rather. It was interesting to note that 442 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,280 straight away on the back of them having to unfortunately lay 443 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,680 off people in Montana, you see these senators from Matana jump 444 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,480 on and say, hey, we should ban all imports into the US of 445 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,520 Palladium. And then you got the the company 446 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,280 kind of playing into this saying Italy's Russia is inundating the 447 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,240 Palladium market to tank its prices and the responsible and 448 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,760 sustainable mining and metals processing that Sibanye does is 449 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,160 just going to be much, much more expensive than Russian 450 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,120 competition. So it's eerily similar to what 451 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:53,880 we spoke about about six months ago in the nickel market, right? 452 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,600 Yeah, it's funny, right? Because there's this like line 453 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,400 of argument, they often say the, the big talking points are that 454 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,480 there's no, there's no like this is the, the only strategic kind 455 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,680 of production of PGMS outside of Russia and South Africa. 456 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,400 That's like a big talking point, right? 457 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,680 But I'm not sure that's right. I'm pretty sure there's a lot 458 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,440 that comes out of Zimbabwe. They're forgetting the good 459 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,040 people of Zimbabwe. No, you're spot on. 460 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,840 I do. I, I see where they're coming 461 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,200 from. Although if I, I just sort of 462 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,560 thought, you know, history kind of teaches us that putting these 463 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,960 bands and stuff just isn't a, a kind of long term solution. 464 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,120 You know, maybe it kind of helps people in, in the short term. 465 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,160 And I, you know, I fully appreciate the, the difficulties 466 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,760 there. But I think there's got to be 467 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,400 some other sort of solutions and some thinking that kind of needs 468 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:54,160 to be done to build a bit more resiliency into the into the 469 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,640 supply chain as opposed to just once people have already been 470 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,680 laid off banning production. I think it's. 471 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,520 It's not too late then, isn't it? 472 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,880 Yeah, Yeah. So I don't think it's the kind 473 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,800 of right way, but it's a difficult kind of situation. 474 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,880 I think it's worth just a quick chat as well about the 475 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,440 restructuring and maybe just sharing a couple of comments 476 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,720 whether we think they're kind of done given everything that's 477 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,600 gone on the last year and a half. 478 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,480 So we spoke about all the assets they've accumulated over the 479 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,040 past few years and I wonder if it's kind of worth selling or 480 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,400 spinning any of the other remaining kind of assets out to 481 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,520 get a more simplified kind of structure. 482 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,240 The company was, you know, uranium was the one that they 483 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,880 said, yeah, we're happy to kind of sell that. 484 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,640 But the rest they said they kind of want to hold on to or maybe 485 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,720 they're not able to sell, but uranium assets, Centuries Inc, 486 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,200 Mount Lyell, Gallican, that's this sort of pecan nickel 487 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,920 refinery in France, Rhylite Ridge, Calibre, the the lithium 488 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,920 project. And then you've of course got 489 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,040 South Africa and USPGMS and gold. 490 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,440 I think there's just a bit too much in there, right? 491 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,120 Like so if you if you got rid of century zinc and Mount Lyell, so 492 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:08,760 they they picked both of them up by acquiring century now, Yep, I 493 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,920 think there's no way in hell that they would be able to sell 494 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,560 that those assets for what they they paid for it. 495 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,240 And it just requires like a bit of, you know, a bit of eating 496 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,760 someone's going to eat their own shorts, you know, to because of 497 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,480 those acquisitions at the price they did. 498 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,200 And then yeah, yeah. The other ones I'm not sure of 499 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,560 maybe what are you going to get for them? 500 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,920 Like probably, probably like, well, yeah, every last dollar 501 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,600 kind of helps. But if, if they think that their 502 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,120 their cash flow is OK and they'll see it through. 503 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:42,520 And especially if these PGM prices kind of re rebound 504 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,040 relatively quickly here, it'll probably just go to the back 505 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,720 burner. Yeah, I, I think you're right. 506 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,960 I'm, I'm kind of curious about how much of their sort of 507 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,320 capacity, it's kind of taken up the, you know, calibre's the one 508 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,800 that's requires a, a fair bit of cash. 509 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,080 There's €300 million earmarked for that one for this year. 510 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,360 But they've got a a sort of green funding line that as they 511 00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:07,520 call it to, to see them through on that one. 512 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,280 But I can see, you know, I don't think they're really going to 513 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,920 get rid of anything else. That uranium asset is in South 514 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,080 Africa. So even that one I think might 515 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,200 be quite hard to to kind of pass on or sell. 516 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,200 I just, yeah. Yeah, I sort of agree with you 517 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:28,720 JD, as far as you know that that there's a lot of in amongst 518 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,720 their main operations and then all the ones that you've just 519 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,520 listed there. Like you know, how can you 520 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,480 spread all your not just from a money perspective, but as far as 521 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,120 people, resources, IP spreading across all of these different 522 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,520 projects. Like what's actually more 523 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,520 important where, where's the best use of time and human 524 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,920 capital? Where is that best spent? 525 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,400 Now there was one more bit that we have to quickly quote from 526 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,240 from the call you pointed this one out I. 527 00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,600 Did want to play this one. Yeah. 528 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:04,880 I also read much around the issue, issues of diversity with 529 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,080 suggestions that if you go work, you go broke and, and again, I 530 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,360 think that's such nonsense. We will continue to drive 531 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,800 inclusivity, diversity and belonging as we believe it 532 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,160 creates a competitive advantage for a company like ourselves. 533 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,560 Go away, go broke. What do you reckon, Janie? 534 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,480 I do love that it got to mention it's pretty funny, yeah. 535 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,400 I mean. Looking they do go broke now 536 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,560 though. That would be particularly bad. 537 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,880 Although, I mean, you know, on a, on a kind of serious note, 538 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,400 looking into Sibanye's safety record, it is, you know, pretty, 539 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,680 pretty awful reading. So there's definitely stuff on 540 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,240 that front that needs to be addressed. 541 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,640 Like unfortunately, a couple of the the miners out there. 542 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,000 Hey, oh. Mate, they're like these South 543 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,520 African PGM miners are particularly like atrocious on 544 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:57,880 the safety front. But I think a lot of that's to 545 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,680 do with the, the, the union workforce and all that sort of 546 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,520 stuff out that way. But yeah, yeah, this whole like 547 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,480 topic of, you know, mining companies going woke is, yeah, 548 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,000 big, a big theme out there. A lot of discussion, a lot of 549 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,480 like rediscussion around DI kind of policies that have been 550 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,240 adopted by some of the, you know, the largest mining 551 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,000 companies out there and and question marks on their 552 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,920 effectiveness. And then, you know, on the other 553 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,720 side, you're going to have the, the like, you know, the boards 554 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,920 and CEOs defending them like you see, you see here. 555 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,000 Do you think, yeah, the diversity and inclusivity was 556 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,200 around commodities 'cause it feels like they're trying to 557 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,840 include everybody commodity in the in the company. 558 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,920 Like that's the way I took to interpret it. 559 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,680 Like Jesus. Christ. 560 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,640 Well played, well played. So, so why did the PGMS price 561 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,800 surge so recently, JD, after this, you know, sort of 562 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,800 production cuts that Sabania put out? 563 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,320 Well, this is the the kind of point that really perked up our 564 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,360 interest. There's a, there's a few 565 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,320 different kind of factors at play, but one of them was 566 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:05,040 undoubtedly Putin's comments that we touched on on Thursday 567 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,520 of last week. So you saw a good kick up in on 568 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:14,360 Thursday, on Friday as well. Obviously we mentioned Sibanye 569 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,360 jumping up 11% on the back of it. 570 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,640 They obviously curtailed a bit. It all kind of plays into it 571 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,440 more broadly. You've got stocks that have been 572 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,840 built up and they're now kind of unwinding and stuff. 573 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,560 And I think there's a, another feature of the, the Palladium 574 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,520 market specifically, not not as prominent in the Platts market, 575 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,680 but there is a huge like a record short position out there. 576 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,400 Now. If you think back to what we 577 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,200 spoke about in the lithium market last week, it just makes 578 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,240 those, those turnarounds quite jumpy. 579 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,760 When you have a a large short interest in the stock, you kind 580 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,920 of have covering and all these things which lead it a bit, you 581 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,840 know a bit sprung or tightly wound to sort of spring to the 582 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:01,640 upside when it does kind of go. There was also a an interesting 583 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,840 question in talking about like where does Platts, where does 584 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,120 Palladium kind of go? And to be clear, like Sebania 585 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,000 talk about very much like a A2 E way of thinking because they 586 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,040 think firmly that Platts and Palladium are interchangeable. 587 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,400 The question was relating to to loading. 588 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,600 What this kind of means is how much of either, you know, the 589 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,120 two E is required in the hybrid vehicles going forward. 590 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,160 And the question was kind of angled at has PGM demand been 591 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,360 overstated because the Chinese have developed new technology 592 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,800 where they don't quite need as much PGMS in a hybrid or an ICE 593 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,040 vehicle. And you know, Sibanya battered 594 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,440 the the question off quite well. They kind of said that they are 595 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,920 totally aware of this and they have forecast into their models 596 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,040 these reduced amounts of PGMS that are needed in the in the 597 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,200 new cars. But I thought that was a 598 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,120 different way of thinking about where this market could 599 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,360 potentially go and who's kind of modelling it, right? 600 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,600 But I remember it's been a while, but I remember back, back 601 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,920 when I was at Macquarie there there's this like commodities, I 602 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,000 remember what it's called, but like this kind of big 603 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,160 commodities write up and like the commodity strategists would 604 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,800 would put out their thought pieces on like all of the 605 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,760 commodities and which one are five year coming? 606 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,040 If it was a five year or ten year outlook, they were doing a 607 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,520 10 year outlook. They were most like bullish on 608 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,080 and most bearish on. And I remember clearly most 609 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,960 bullish was carbon of all commodities, most bearish 610 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,120 Palladium. Yeah, right. 611 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,200 So yeah, in terms of like sort. Of 2022 time. 612 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,600 Yeah, this, this was, this was like, yeah, like 2022 when this 613 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,840 way. But yeah, I just, yeah, things 614 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,840 have changed a little bit and sometimes you kind of hit the 615 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,400 Contra. Yeah. 616 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,800 Well, I just think that the, you know, taking the contrarian view 617 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,480 is where the opportunity kind of lies. 618 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,120 And that's not to say it's right. 619 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,880 I just think that's the the place where you kind of need to 620 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:03,360 look. Mate, I'd love to see if you're 621 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,320 you want to be a contrarian in this market which you've 622 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,199 historically called too hard. Definitely China. 623 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:10,880 Rare earths, eh? Rare earths in general. 624 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,800 Yeah, I just want to give this story a quick will, mostly 625 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:19,000 because I I'm trying to get people to see if they'll send in 626 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,199 information that they know about it because I've found it 627 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,679 particularly hard to get information on this story. 628 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,040 But I saw this this headline, I think it was the bottom of the 629 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,800 UBS note. I had to do some Googling to 630 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,480 even substantiate the story before I put a link in the 631 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,360 director special this morning. So there's this news from from 632 00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:37,880 China that China Rare Earth Group has had an exploration 633 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,280 breakthrough and that would result in it producing an 634 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,440 additional 5 million tonnes of rare earth oxides. 5 million 635 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,120 tonnes is a lot in that market. I don't know, I assume it can't 636 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:49,880 be paramount, but an exploration breakthrough. 637 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,520 Look, So what interesting wording it's, it's, I mean, I'm 638 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,360 sure it's been translated, but so yeah, my first thoughts too. 639 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,400 Just take it all with with a bit of a. 640 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,680 It's full of salt. Some little Chinese whispers to 641 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,840 this one so why is it interesting There's a few 642 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,960 reasons right first of all, let me just give a bit of context 643 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680 about this state owned enterprise trying to rare earth 644 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,640 group from what I can find online, this state owned entity 645 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,440 actually formed because China merged sort of these three 646 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,800 separate state owned entities in late 2021 to in quotation marks 647 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,680 increased pricing power and efficiency. 648 00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:28,880 So forget antitrust I suppose, because it's OK if you're just 649 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,240 making W more anti competitive that's OK. 650 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:37,360 I I I read some reports that this kind of like mega code of 651 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,720 of rare earth production sort of just captured just you know 652 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,440 stupid majority of heavy rare earths. 653 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,960 So the first question, what the hell is an exploration 654 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,000 breakthrough that can like definitively lead to a 655 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,280 quantifiable increase in production? 656 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,640 Like what does that, what does that even mean? 657 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,040 It seems pretty wild to to state that, right? 658 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,840 What do you what do you think? I think that is mixed in 659 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,800 translation to be honest, and I'd be curious what was meant by 660 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,120 the writer. Yeah. 661 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,640 And I mean, if there's going to be a breakthrough that leads in 662 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,640 to more production, I would have thought that might have been 663 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,960 more the processing part of the supply chain to sort of get 664 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,760 more, you know, out of the rock. But you know, put simply, I'm 665 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,840 not sure how doing that front end, but I'm just yeah, I'm, I'm 666 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:25,400 confused. I. 667 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,000 Don't mean unless it's an actual discovery, yeah. 668 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,680 Yeah, unless it's. But yeah, it must be or or 669 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,080 unless it's a discovery. That's all very possible, but 670 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,720 then I had the thought could China's state owned enterprise 671 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:40,720 potentially have just discovered verifies AI capability? 672 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:43,120 Because I think it's possible, right? 673 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,760 I actually, I actually put the question to rock, which is if 674 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,560 you didn't know, is the the AI chat insider Twitter. 675 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:56,320 And yes, I used AI to ask about AI and, and look like rock stood 676 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,040 back from giving me a, a definitive answer. 677 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,200 But I said is verify an expiration breakthrough for 678 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,080 China and I'll just, I'll read out this little bit of response. 679 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,680 Rock says Verify AI focuses on using AI for mineral expiration, 680 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,440 which could potentially revolutionise how mineral 681 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,760 deposits are identified and explored China or globally. 682 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,360 Its technology aims to integrate and analyse vast amounts of 683 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,880 geological data to pinpoint prospective mineral deposits 684 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,000 with greater accuracy than traditional methods. 685 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:24,280 This could be considered a technological breakthrough in 686 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,600 exploration methodology. But kind of, you know, stood 687 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,720 back from definitively answering my question. 688 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,920 But, you know, I, I must say I'm, I'm pretty suspicious that 689 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,120 this is actually the, the real explanation for China's 690 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,720 exploration breakthrough now. And last I heard, there's a fat 691 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:40,800 waste waiting list for verifiers, AI technology. 692 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,240 But the, the 3D models that help you communicate, yeah, your 693 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,080 deposit, they've been gangbusters. 694 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,720 And apparently there were 47 of them on display at 47 Beaver 695 00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:50,320 Creek last week. They're they're also on the 696 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,000 ground at Denver Gold Forum too, and they're even an AIMIC 697 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,360 member. So getting amongst the other 698 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,680 mining community. So hit up grant to verify.com or 699 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,480 Nathan at verify.com. Nathan's Perth based. 700 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,680 So righto. Anyway, back to back to the rare 701 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,240 earths in China. Guys. 702 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,720 Last time we, we had a chin wag on the topic of of rare earths. 703 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,080 I think we pointed to what looked like it could be, you 704 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:13,440 know, bottoming out of the, the NDPR prices. 705 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,840 In fact, the state owned enterprise China Northern Rare 706 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,320 Earth actually recently raised their list prices by 5% as their 707 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,960 you know second quarter earnings were zilch. 708 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,120 And that triggered basically these magnet makers to rush 709 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,840 their seasonal restocking apparently which sent like NDPR 710 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,680 spot prices to $62.00 US per kilogramme last week. 711 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,240 And to China Northern Rare Earth they they raised their list 712 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,160 prices, magnet producers flare to restock NDPR spot price 713 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,520 climbs. And now magically, China 714 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,280 Northern Rare Earth have had an exploration breakthrough 715 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,600 allowing them to produce 5 million tonnes more oxide. 716 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,040 Call me a conspiracy theorist on the timing of it all. 717 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,160 Might have to. And look, throw this one into 718 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,560 the timing mix. Northern Minerals, the listed 719 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,680 hairy, heavy rare earth developer on the ASXER. 720 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,120 They've been the subject of a lot of, you know, geopolitical 721 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,040 archibaldy. They raised a whopping $43 722 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:13,240 million Australian via 2 tranche placement just announced the 723 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:16,480 details today. That's about a third of its free 724 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,760 raise market cap, which is chunky. 725 00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:23,640 And in a raise where I look at the the uses of funds in the 726 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:28,960 raise and mate how's this $23.5 million is in that use of funds 727 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,680 table for working capital site and corporate costs? 728 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,000 Nah, that's more than half. Yeah. 729 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:36,520 What? No, you can't. 730 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,040 Yeah, no matter how you cut it, it seems bizarre. 731 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,120 So look, something strange is going on in the in the rare 732 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,920 earth market right now. You can you can connect a few 733 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,200 dots and come up with some theories, but I'll let the money 734 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,040 miners do that themselves. And if you happen to have some 735 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,000 Intel, end it in. Very curious, how do you how do 736 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,760 you listen to something like that and not just think it stays 737 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,000 in the too hard basket? I'm with you, JD. 738 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,800 Once Upon a time, uranium was too hard. 739 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,000 Uranium, you can do a bit of digging it, it just doesn't have 740 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,560 that monopolistic, you know, Chinese grip all over it. 741 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,880 It's obviously concentrated in, in some markets and you know, 742 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,680 with regard to where uranium comes from and where things 743 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,600 happen. But I I don't know how you can 744 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,880 be filled with confidence listening to that, even if there 745 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,080 was a conspiratorial tone. But this? 746 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,640 Is why I like gold. JD Not in a too hard basket. 747 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,920 Back, back to gold. Let's go to Denver, Ali. 748 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,360 Oh, sorry. Honestly, this has been quite 749 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,920 the week. I mean, but for LE GS say I mean 750 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,880 like gold is at record highs. Bloody Oscar piastres run the F1 751 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,640 GPA over the weekend like it's it's just been a great start to 752 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,240 the week. So and what a week literally to 753 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:57,240 kick off the world's oldest and largest precious metals 754 00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,680 conference. So this is the Denver gold forum 755 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,600 in Colorado. So as, as we said, sort of, you 756 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,520 know, gold prices hit bloody record highs over the weekend. 757 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,800 Gold equities are on a tear. So the the G DX, which is 758 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:18,600 basically a VANIC gold ETF is up 9%, then the GDXJ up 40% in the 759 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,360 last five days. Deals. 760 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,440 More importantly, I think the the L e.g. 761 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,560 CETF must be great. She's doing all right. 762 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,680 And then you know this this. Is bumping up off a low base. 763 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:32,880 Oh yeah. Yes, yeah, that, that is the 764 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,360 caveat that needs to be made there. 765 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,360 Just just a lot of talk and buddy, you know, deals are being 766 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,600 done left front and centre. So, you know, we had great Land 767 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,120 and Telfer last week, Anglo Gold and Cinnamon last week, 768 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,400 Goldfields and a Cisco not too much earlier than that. 769 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,840 You know, Perseus getting into predictive, you know, it's all 770 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,960 happening. Great time to be a gold ball. 771 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,960 I was almost tempted to join our our favourite gold price 772 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,360 reporters on LinkedIn, Simon Lawson and Alex Scanlon, but I 773 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,400 thought I'd best leave that to the experts. 774 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,960 So the conference actually officially kicks off later our 775 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,360 time tonight. And I thought, you know what, 776 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,320 where, where is this bloody hotel that they have this 777 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,360 conference? And look at this, this is the 778 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,040 Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs where the, the, the 779 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,480 Denver Gulf War is all happening. 780 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:22,960 Look at that. Stunning, that is. 781 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,600 Just gorgeous. Straight out of like Succession 782 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,320 or something. Oh, I actually love that. 783 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:30,040 Great. Place to get a lot of work done. 784 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,400 Oh yeah, lots of work, JD. Good place. 785 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,240 To spend shareholder money. Look at it but so. 786 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,560 You've been to the place where this is what you're funding, 787 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,600 yeah. Have a look here. 788 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,760 Could you investors don't forget that picture? 789 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,760 But no, look, there's already been some news flow coming out 790 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,920 in and around the conference. So Endeavour mining commercial 791 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,240 production at their bikes expansion and La Figuay growth 792 00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:59,640 projects. Apologies for sort of announce 793 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,960 it incorrectly and West Gold put out the FY25 guidance and some 794 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,440 you know reserve resources updates and is used as well as 795 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,320 the usual Schmidt, you know corporate comments preso so. 796 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,920 And the exploration target, Ali? Forget. 797 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,520 Yeah, sorry. Don't forget the exploration 798 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,160 target as well. So no super keen to say what are 799 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,360 the now that the conference sort of officially kicking off later 800 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,360 tonight, what are the news flows sort of comes out in the next 801 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,040 few days and we'll be certainly keeping our eyes healed. 802 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,520 Well, you know, you're an ASX company. 803 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,360 Yep. You're supposed to not time your 804 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,840 news flow with a conference. You you've got a an obligation 805 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,280 to disclose anything material. As it becomes material, it's 806 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:40,920 continuous. Like that? 807 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:43,720 It's it's all part of the process. 808 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,480 At least there's A1 commodity out there at least getting a bit 809 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,160 of love. It's been pretty, pretty bare 810 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,920 and the the kind of sentiment's been a bit beaten up across the 811 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,680 across the space, but came to have a few a few chats with 812 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,920 people from from China and the ones looking at the industrial 813 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,960 metals in the in the coming weeks to get a a bit more of a 814 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,320 better feel for everything going on out there. 815 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:08,960 Hey. Absolutely. 816 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,400 All right, let's wrap it up there guys. 817 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,320 Got to thank the partners Axis Mining Technology. 818 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,640 During the show we had good on verify and ADR get get amongst 819 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:23,200 them Mineral mining services, MMS get get amongst DSI, 820 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,760 underground, Silverstone, CRE Insurance, Greenland's 821 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,760 equipment, K drill and spark use a spark shop. 822 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,520 Where are you guys? Information contained in this 823 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,280 episode of Money of Mine is of general nature only and does not 824 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,920 take into account the objectives, financial situation 825 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,960 or needs of any particular person. 826 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,320 Before making any investment decision, you should consult 827 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,360 with your financial advisor and consider how appropriate the 828 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,080 advice is to your objectives, financial situation and needs.