1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,000
Rhino money miners. 
Another bloody huge deal. 

2
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,280
JD, you're. 
Bringing a massive 1. 

3
00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:10,040
And what was I supposed to say 
again? 

4
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,720
Well, JJ's got is a $5 billion 
gold tie up in Canada. 

5
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,120
Usus the big real billions. 
I'm going to the the monopoly in

6
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,920
the cesium market and it has 
some implications. 

7
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,080
There's some some juniors out 
there that are having some wins 

8
00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:27,080
off the back of some a 
discovery, but I'm gonna go into

9
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,360
that whole market, which 
monopolies are awesome mate. 

10
00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,240
They're very cool and rare in 
our industry. 

11
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:32,439
They they don't have it very 
often. 

12
00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:34,160
So that's true. 
And another. 

13
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,760
Big gold deal closer to? 
Home talk about this is mate 

14
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,160
could be creating a Kalgoorlie 
monopoly. 

15
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,040
Not really, but if. 
You can. 

16
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,560
Fit if you're talking. 
Monopoly. 

17
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:49,840
Yours might be a Mayfair. 
This is more What are the old 

18
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,920
Kent Rd. possibly. 
Oh, right now take it away. 

19
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,520
Equinox caliber tire. 
All right, we're going to North 

20
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,360
America for this one. 
This is a America's focused deal

21
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,400
and there was pretty mixed 
reactions to it. 

22
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,560
So share price on the Equinox 
side, they're the the bigger 

23
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,440
party. 
You know that they kind of call 

24
00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,160
it a merger, call it whatever 
you like, but they're really 

25
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,440
taking out the other party 
caliber in an all script deal. 

26
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,960
They were flat and calibres 
share price was in for a bit of 

27
00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:21,440
a rough ride. 
They ended up peeling off 7%. 

28
00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,120
Shareholders weren't all too 
chuffed. 

29
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,960
Mate, I saw a lot of deal, a lot
of posts on Twitter, like kind 

30
00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:29,320
of right after this came out and
not a single post was there. 

31
00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:30,800
A happy shareholder on either 
side. 

32
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,040
Yeah, so, so negative reaction 
on both sides. 

33
00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:36,560
Of course, sort of, you know, 
Twitter can be a bit anecdotal. 

34
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,720
You want to piece it together 
with the every every sort of bit

35
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,560
of info you can find. 
But I mean, just looking at the 

36
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,000
share price, right, people 
aren't happy with with how it's 

37
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,120
sort of gone about, especially 
if you're calibre, because 

38
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,240
really it's a, a new premium or 
if you want to be generous, a, a

39
00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,120
2% premium take out. 
So we'll, we'll get into it. 

40
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,400
There's a, a few interesting 
slides in the, the pack that 

41
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,600
they put out. 
Equinox shareholders have a, a 

42
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,120
pretty well known share for 
Aussie, Aussie listeners to the 

43
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,120
show. 
Ross Beatty is the chair of 

44
00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,960
Equinox, very well known in 
Canadian mining circles. 

45
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,520
And the stock has been on an up 
and down ride over the last few 

46
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:15,960
years. 
So they, they put this little 

47
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,920
chart in the deck that they put 
out. 

48
00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:21,520
And I think it's a little bit 
cheeky because you can see on 

49
00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,360
the, the Y axis there, they're 
talking about market cap. 

50
00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:28,120
Now, if you actually look at the
share price, it's, it's not 

51
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,560
quite as flattering because you 
know, the, the crux of the story

52
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,920
is that they've had to dilute to
be on this growth journey that 

53
00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:37,880
they're on to, to finance the 
development of a lot of 

54
00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,400
projects. 
We've spoken about Greenstone, 

55
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,200
that's their, that's their big 
project. 

56
00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,320
I think Maddie was you and I 
speaking about when they 

57
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,600
consolidated ownership there, 
they took the other 40% that had

58
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,560
been with Orion Online Finance, 
grouped it all together. 

59
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,480
So they were the 100% owner of 
that asset. 

60
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,600
Before that, Gold Rd. 
We're rumoured to be pretty 

61
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,680
advanced trying to trying to 
pick that share up. 

62
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,760
That's right. 
Yeah, I remember that. 

63
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,560
Another group of shareholders 
that weren't too happy with with

64
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,320
a potential deal. 
In that case, on the caliber 

65
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,680
side of things, you've got a 
company that's grown from an 

66
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,520
explorer not all that long ago. 
So if you go back just to 2019, 

67
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,920
they're they're an explorer and 
through the sequence of doing a 

68
00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:20,320
number of deals, they've become 
a pretty handy sized miner. 

69
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,440
So this deal sort of puts their 
market cap at Canadian 2.6 

70
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,560
billion, I think US about 1.7. 
They've got 3 producing assets 

71
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,680
now and Valentine is their big 
growth project that's meant to 

72
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,720
pour first gold in Q2 of this 
calendar year. 

73
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,800
So pretty, pretty imminent on 
that front. 195,000 oz per annum

74
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,240
at the initial sort of phase. 
And yeah, doing doing studies to

75
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,920
to scale that one up. 
I liked a trading view, highly 

76
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,120
compliments to the change of 
colour scale there on the lines 

77
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:53,480
is that? 
It's a funky one, that's. 

78
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,520
Bloody, I don't know, I'm like, 
is that my eyes? 

79
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,600
Anyway, cool, just adds that 
extra layer to it does matter up

80
00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,040
or down, right? 
So let let's talk about the, 

81
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,400
the, the details around the deal
because you know, myself and I'm

82
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,120
sure a bunch of the Aussie 
listeners won't be all that 

83
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,680
familiar with the assets that 
we're talking about here. 

84
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,760
But as a combined group, if the 
deal goes through, you've got 

85
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,519
non producing mines and a mine 
under construction, the one I 

86
00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:20,120
just mentioned in Valentine, 
there's question marks around 

87
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,000
Equinoxes, Los Filos. 
That's not really factored into 

88
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,520
any of the production 
assumptions going forward 

89
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,880
because there's community 
related challenges that they're 

90
00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,640
experiencing there in in Mexico.
You've got a ten person board to

91
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,480
start with chaired by Ross 
Beatty. 

92
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,480
I'd expect that to be trimmed 
down once the deal is sort of 

93
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,480
bedded down. 
And I also expect there to be a 

94
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,040
bit of rationalization of the, 
the smaller high cost assets in 

95
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,560
the portfolio there. 
With regard to the, the deal 

96
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,840
itself, how it's kind of been 
structured, I think the, the new

97
00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:55,080
premium aspect is the, the 
logical starting point. 

98
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,760
I mean, hey, it's awesome. 
If if you're sort of Equinox 

99
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,480
taken that point of view and 
you're happy with everything 

100
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,440
else, great. 
Getting a, a company at a, a nil

101
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,360
premium, that's, that's awesome.
But there's, there's always a 

102
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,160
bit more to it. 
The details are that Caliber 

103
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,520
shareholders will get 0.31 
Equinox shares per share that 

104
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,800
they hold to the pro forma 
ownership will be 65% Equinox, 

105
00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:20,760
35% CXB. 
That's that's Calibre and 

106
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,840
standard sort of matching rights
in the conditions of deal, but 

107
00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:28,920
in the conditions of the deal as
well as needing a vote to go 

108
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,160
through. 
Similar to when we spoke about 

109
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,600
Kora West Gold, caliber 
shareholders need to get behind 

110
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:39,600
this deal to the tune of 66.6%. 
On the other side, Equinox also 

111
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,560
have to vote, but they just need
a simple majority shareholders 

112
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,360
to get that one over the line. 
On keep one on the new premium, 

113
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,760
I don't actually, I don't mind 
it if they're going to at least 

114
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,600
it's a deal where you're going 
to get to, but there's no 

115
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,480
synergies. 
And if there's no synergies, I 

116
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,280
don't think it's particularly 
appropriate to pay a premium if 

117
00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,160
you're not getting like the 
synergy value. 

118
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,560
So if you've got no synergies, 
no premium, you're doing it for 

119
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,680
scale sake so you can get into 
an index and don't pay a 

120
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,640
premium. 
And that's that's where you go 

121
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:06,840
about. 
I think that's more defensible 

122
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,120
than paying a premium, to be 
honest. 

123
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,800
Yeah, no, 100%. 
I agree with you. 

124
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,240
That's pretty much what I'd 
written out over the the next 5 

125
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:13,320
minutes that I was going to chat
through. 

126
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,080
Sorry. 
Why do they? 

127
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,640
That's the crux of it. 
You, you, you search for 

128
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,480
synergies in the presentation, 
you get one hit and it, it feels

129
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,160
pretty obligatory for them to, 
to write it in there. 

130
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,720
But investors ask the question 
on the call as well. 

131
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,160
There's no asset synergies. 
You might get a a few savings 

132
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,480
here and there on the on the 
corporate side of the business, 

133
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,160
but that is not why you're doing
this deal. 

134
00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,560
Why do they have to vote both 
sides on this case, JD where we 

135
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,440
only have to vote on one side 
over here? 

136
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,880
It's a good question I couldn't 
answer specifically. 

137
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,320
I'd imagine just because it's a,
a massive deal sort of on, on 

138
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,280
both sides, a big, a big use, 
you know, you're, you're issuing

139
00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:56,120
a substantial amount of capital.
That's why Equinox has to be 

140
00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,120
kind of similar. 
I guess if you're thinking about

141
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,920
a massive capital raise near the
company as well on that side of 

142
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,680
it, you need to get shareholder 
approval, that type of 

143
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,760
perspective. 
There was one feature of the, 

144
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,280
the deal itself, which was 
interesting. 

145
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:10,960
I think it raised a few 
eyebrows, this sort of 

146
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,080
concurrent financing that they 
speak about. 

147
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,920
It's nothing new to see the 
target company get a bit of 

148
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,080
financing to see themselves 
through to completion caliber, 

149
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,400
call it insurance, but the the 
nature of it sort of stood out. 

150
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,880
So they're going to take in $75 
million via unsecured 

151
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,440
convertible notes, 40 million of
which is going to go to Equinox.

152
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:34,360
They're going to just eliminate 
them. 

153
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,520
Assuming the deal goes through. 
The remaining 35 will go to a 

154
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,320
couple different groups, one 
being best Core and the other 

155
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,080
being Trip Trinity Capital 
Partners. 

156
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,880
Now the the terms of the conduct
are fairly standard five years 

157
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,480
at a premium of 37 1/2%, but 
they don't actually mention in 

158
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,880
the presentation anywhere that 
there are warrants attached to 

159
00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,520
this or options if you're an 
Aussie. 

160
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,120
So you only see that in the 
announcement in the in the fine 

161
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,800
print that 0.66 warrants are 
going to be issued per 

162
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,680
convertible share. 
So. 

163
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,920
With a five year term, yeah, 
you're getting a really generous

164
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,200
coupon in addition to the upside
of that that can convertible, 

165
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,120
you know point gold market with 
five years of volatility in your

166
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,320
favour. 
And then the warrant, the free 

167
00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,560
warrant for every 0.66 kind of 
notes you own, like I'd say 

168
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:25,760
where can I sign myself up for 
some of them? 

169
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,920
Yeah. 
The the way I kind of came to 

170
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,920
think about it is it, it is what
it is. 

171
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,480
You know that the financiers, 
they this always kind of happens

172
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,159
one way or another. 
It's it's not unusual that we 

173
00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:39,880
kind of see this. 
It's always a bit more than the 

174
00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,000
terms that you read. 
There's always a bit more 

175
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,480
compensation going and you've 
just got to, if you're the 

176
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:46,840
mining company, you've just got 
to pay the price. 

177
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,200
There's not not too much you can
kind of really do is, is the 

178
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,040
view that I've come to. 
I like, I don't like that it's 

179
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,640
not included in in the 
presentation. 

180
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,040
I think just kind of be upfront 
about it, show it. 

181
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,720
But I mean, if like, yeah, it's,
it's quite a sort of. 

182
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,360
It is unusual for it to like 
like a working capital loan from

183
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,400
the acquirer to the target. 
Not unusual. 

184
00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:12,360
It is unusual for there to be 
other other parties to that, 

185
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,920
especially when one of those 
parties is the financial advisor

186
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,280
to the acquisition. 
I yeah, I I hear you in in this 

187
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,560
specific, in this specific case,
I'm more sort of generalizing 

188
00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:26,040
the point of these sorts of 
convertible notes. 

189
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,200
It does always seem like there's
finer print or if it's like a 

190
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,160
pre payment or something like 
that, there's always a bit more 

191
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,760
payment. 
You know, the the make a deal. 

192
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,080
That one comes to mind where you
had to do a bit more unpacking 

193
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,640
on the on the gold line type 
type situation. 

194
00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,280
And at the end of the day that 
that is the kind of market rate.

195
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,280
It's not like a straightforward 
percentage that you're just kind

196
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,000
of paying, but that is the the 
market rate, whether whether you

197
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,440
kind of like it or not. 
And it's up to the company to 

198
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,640
try and get the most attractive 
terms. 

199
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,320
That's just their their job to, 
to try and look after the 

200
00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:58,520
interests of shareholders. 
What? 

201
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,200
Do you think of what do you 
think of Deal, Deal Security 

202
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,560
JDI? 
Think there's I think there's a 

203
00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:11,400
small chance of an interloper 
coming in to So to start with on

204
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,840
the on the break fees US 85 
million to Equinox or 

205
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,840
145,000,000 to Calibre. 
Should the other party be in the

206
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,840
deal given that there's you know
to new premium, someone could 

207
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,280
kind of come in with a modest 
premium, but it's Canadian 2.6 

208
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,920
billion, it's got assets in 
America, Canada and Nicaragua. 

209
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,320
Given the scale and the appetite
for that kind of portfolio of 

210
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,480
assets, I think there's a fairly
limited number of other parties 

211
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,560
that would be attracted to that.
There's also a bit of debt which

212
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,320
you know, I think minimizes the 
the interest for a few 

213
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,320
respective buyers. 
So you know, despite the fact 

214
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,280
we're in a gold bull market, I 
think there's a, a substantial 

215
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,360
focus on returns to 
shareholders, not blowing it on 

216
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,240
M&A being disciplined, all these
sorts of things. 

217
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,760
And I think if you sort of 
accumulate all of the above 

218
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,120
would have just kind of 
mentioned, I think there's 

219
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,760
limited, not not no chance, but 
a sort of limited chance that 

220
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,280
somebody's going to have a 
swing. 

221
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,400
You know, what I wonder is if 
there's actually more appetite 

222
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,320
for the acquirer in this 
specific, in this instance and 

223
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,200
there is for the target like you
know, was was Equinox actually a

224
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,640
much more attractive target than
Calibre and hence path to 

225
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,560
survival is to, you know, each 
not be eaten. 

226
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:31,920
Yeah, interesting train of 
thought. 

227
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,440
I think the Greenstone and the 
Valentine assets, people would 

228
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,920
love those two people would love
one of those as well. 

229
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,680
If you could get both of them, 
that'd be awesome. 

230
00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:42,280
But you know, 11 is with each of
the parties, so a bit easier 

231
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,480
said than done. 
But I call it Valentine for 

232
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,160
nothing, Joe. 
There's a lot of love there 

233
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,760
mate. 
A lot of love, mate. 

234
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,800
Let's kind of chat about the, 
the nature of this. 

235
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,080
We've, you know, you mentioned 
synergies there, Trev, like 

236
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,400
trying to get into the mindset 
of Equinox and why you're doing 

237
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,200
this deal is an interesting 
thought process. 

238
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,520
And yeah, in in large part, like
you say, just to become a bigger

239
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,480
company, very simple 
prioritizing Canadian answers. 

240
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,800
50 plus percent of the NAV is 
going to be in Canada. 

241
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,720
And Ross Beatty put it super 
succinctly on the call. 

242
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,600
We want to get big quick. 
It's you know, it's that in a 

243
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,200
nutshell. 
I'll Chuck up a chart here which

244
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,560
speaks to it. 
It's a, you know, Maddie, like 

245
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,320
we kind of joke about it's a 
flow of funds game. 

246
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,920
The big get bigger. 
That's what they're targeting. 

247
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:31,000
And it reminded me of a bit of a
meme that Ali chucked in the 

248
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,400
directed special newsletter a 
couple weeks ago. 

249
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,120
So I kind of compare and 
contrast. 

250
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,040
One of them is saying the same 
thing in corporate speak. 

251
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,600
The other one is just in main 
form, but for those listening to

252
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,960
the podcast, you've got this 
slide where Equinox is showing 

253
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,120
all the constituent companies in
the GDX and the GDXJ by market 

254
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,200
cap and they group them. 
You've got 41 businesses that 

255
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,000
are in that one to $4 billion 
range. 

256
00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:59,480
You've got 8 businesses in the 4
billion to $10 billion range. 

257
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,880
And beyond that, beyond $10 
billion in market, $10 billion 

258
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,800
in market cap, you've got 7 
companies. 

259
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,240
And what the main just shows is 
that when investors come and 

260
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,600
they want to invest in gold, 
they look at gold, they look at 

261
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,200
the gold trust, they look at New
York listed mega cap companies. 

262
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:19,560
And there's a very, very sort of
little trickle down in capital 

263
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,560
to the juniors in the space, 
hence the rationale for becoming

264
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,360
a bigger company. 
And this issue I see being even 

265
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,840
more pronounced in North America
than it is in in Canada. 

266
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,440
I think the juniors in Canada 
and smaller companies get even 

267
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,080
less love than they have been 
getting here in Australia. 

268
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,840
Is that I know, Do you reckon 
they're paying a bit for Ross 

269
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,160
Beattie? 
He's he's like that name like 

270
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,760
you play zero premium, but you 
get Ross Beattie. 

271
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,880
That's the Canadian market, 
right? 

272
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,760
That you've got to have one of 
those names attached. 

273
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,520
To it like they yeah, bloody 
Rick rules always. 

274
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,720
Oh, Ross. 
He's always talks about Lundeens

275
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,520
and Ross Beattie and it's the 
brand that comes with it. 

276
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,720
Yeah, I think there's. 
I think there's always value in 

277
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,280
that. 
Yeah, we're, we're susceptible 

278
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,280
to it in Australia. 
You know, you got the Clarky 

279
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,800
outrageous, you've got you got 
rally, you got bill. 

280
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,200
These guys attract a premium 
valuation, but you know, it's 

281
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,200
like you're stapling it to the 
presentation in in Canada. 

282
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,120
Like it. 
You need a promoter in Canada, 

283
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,080
yeah. 
And it's almost a necessary 

284
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,600
function of that market for some
reason. 

285
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,760
Yeah, Friedland, probably 
another one we can mention there

286
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,640
as well. 
On the the Canadian side of 

287
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,000
things, we've got to talk about 
the the cheapness or the the 

288
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,480
value of the deal. 
I think would be a bit remiss 

289
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,840
to, to not speak about it. 
They're not paying a premium. 

290
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,320
As I mentioned that that kind of
helps on cap IQ. 

291
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,040
You can see 9 analysts cover 
caliber. 

292
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,240
They sort of peg the, the pay 
NAV right now at .75 times. 

293
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,000
And you know, there's, there's 
development risk in that 

294
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,320
business. 
You, you sort of look at the, 

295
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,600
the group of peers, it's not 
totally out of place. 

296
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,200
You look at Equinox, they're 
trading at .73 times. 

297
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,000
So very, very similar ballpark 
despite it being a bit of a bee 

298
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,440
of business and then slightly 
different position producing 

299
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,880
more Oz and all those sorts of 
things. 

300
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,560
But I think that just sort of 
hammers home that price is not 

301
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,160
why they're doing this deal. 
Why the shareholders pissed off 

302
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,280
me? 
But I'll try and summarize it 

303
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,800
from two different perspectives 
because you've got shareholders 

304
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,280
pissed off on, on both sides of 
the aisle here. 

305
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,080
And I'll just try and summarize 
their their frustration as I 

306
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,840
kind of see it. 
On the Equinox side, you've got 

307
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,600
Greenstone, the big project 
coming online. 

308
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,760
It's it's ramping up right now. 
And I think there was a sort of 

309
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,360
expectation amongst investors 
that this would come with a de 

310
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,520
risking of the business. 
It would come with a 

311
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,960
deleveraging of the business as 
cash flow ramps up. 

312
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,000
And, you know, that would come 
in tandem with a rewrite in the 

313
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,600
share price. 
So, you know, tying that in with

314
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,840
the view that the timing just 
wasn't right. 

315
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,880
Why not do this in future when 
you can get better bang for your

316
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,360
buck? 
That ties in with the yeah, you 

317
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,120
know, a talking point on 
dilution. 

318
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,800
You got to do more dilution at 
this share price then if you 

319
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,000
were to, to rewrite, you're also
getting exposure to places like 

320
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,520
Nicaragua. 
And if you're an investor, maybe

321
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,800
that's not what you signed up 
for, you know, maybe that's not 

322
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,080
why you're there. 
I, you know, I understand that, 

323
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:21,080
that perspective on the, on the 
CXB side of things, the, the 

324
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,880
real frustration, the real 
question that you're asking as 

325
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,040
an investor is why have you 
agreed to sell the company for 

326
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,000
no premium? 
You know, you, you want that 

327
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,240
standard 3035% premium if 
someone's going to take you out,

328
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,160
which this kind of is at the end
of the day, that's the big one 

329
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,520
people want answered. 
And maybe it is valid that the 

330
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,320
growth potential being combined 
with Equinox is, is maximized. 

331
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,840
Maybe it's better than if you're
just going at solo Valentin is, 

332
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,320
you know, coming online this 
quarter or next quarter. 

333
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,960
As I sort of mentioned, maybe 
the project risk is better 

334
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,960
handled in a bigger organization
where you're sort of spreading, 

335
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,160
spreading that risk across more 
cash flows, more assets. 

336
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,440
So you see that in the in the 
con note as well, like there's a

337
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,040
no for better or worse, there's 
a bit of a top up financing 

338
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,000
going on there so that they 
don't have to dilute more in the

339
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,440
future. 
They are dilute like there's a 

340
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,560
dilution effect from urging 2 
businesses. 

341
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,200
But yeah, yeah. 
Yeah. 

342
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,880
So it it, it's open-ended. 
We'll see as as ramp up goes on,

343
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:23,119
we'll see if they do attract 
more generalists, more 

344
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,920
institutional investors where 
the management is right in their

345
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,080
judgement that this is the the 
way to attract more capital and 

346
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,120
better you know share price 
accretion. 

347
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,040
Rewrite's an interesting one. 
It's like a recession. 

348
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,840
It's not like there's one day 
shit. 

349
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,560
This is all happening. 
We're having a rewrite right 

350
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,280
now. 
Like it's like, is it? 

351
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,200
It's never an instantaneous 
thing, is it? 

352
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,400
Is it when you say improv people
that you know the definition? 

353
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,960
Like are you saying a rewrite 
like saying we're gonna 

354
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,680
outperform over a year for 
instance, post this happening 

355
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,160
cause the story's better at once
greenstone come online or like 

356
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,080
this rewrite thing isn't an 
instantaneous event, is it? 

357
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,160
I think if a rewrite is multiple
expansion, so like maybe, maybe 

358
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,840
beforehand you were trading it 
like three times EBITDA, you 

359
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,600
know, a year from now you're 
trading at four or five times 

360
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,800
EBITDA. 
Yeah, better appreciation for 

361
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,400
what you've got. 
Yeah, kind of just you go better

362
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,840
in a year's time. 
Yeah, Effectively, yeah. 

363
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,760
It's like a recession. 
It's like there wasn't a 

364
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,280
recession. 
It's like the backward. 

365
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,400
Looking thing, or maybe there 
was one back then. 

366
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,080
Yeah, it wasn't very good. 
I holy shit, it's a recession. 

367
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,880
Yeah, today. 
No, absolutely. 

368
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,480
So to, to put it all in a 
nutshell, if, if I'm going to 

369
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,320
give kind of my, my thoughts on 
the deal from a strategic angle,

370
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,920
I get it, you know, growing the 
business in an absolute sense, 

371
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,520
index inclusion, trading 
liquidity, all that sort of 

372
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,600
stuff, low cost answers in 
Canada, you know, maybe trimming

373
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,240
the portfolio in time, spreading
the risk over more assets. 

374
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,920
So I understand that on a value 
basis, I'm I'm not quite there. 

375
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,120
You know, you're paying in stock
for a company that's trading at 

376
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,800
a kind of similar, maybe 
slightly richer, multiple, not 

377
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,000
super earnings accretive if 
you're, you know, looking, 

378
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,880
looking into the details there. 
But in all honesty, the the 

379
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,000
company is not trying to sell 
you on that. 

380
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,160
That's not how they're packaging
up this deal. 

381
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,360
They're not talking about per 
share metrics whatsoever. 

382
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,280
It's all about getting bigger. 
It's all about being a leading 

383
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,560
Canadian, the gold miner. 
It's about increasing 

384
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,640
attractiveness to generalist 
investors, to big institutions. 

385
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,760
So from my perspective, I think 
it's a bit counter intuitive if 

386
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,640
you're coming from the lens of, 
you know, a value investing 

387
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,040
orientation. 
It's not quite my style, but no,

388
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,800
there's there's good odds it it 
works. 

389
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,040
So we'll see if they are getting
more bang for the buck, you 

390
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,680
know, getting more value on the 
answers they're producing, more 

391
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,200
value on the dollars they're 
earning in in due course. 

392
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,120
There you go. 
Go international. 

393
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,360
That's it. 
Bloody YouTube and a. 

394
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,800
YouTube's loving the 
international stories. 

395
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,480
They fucking love it, right? 
Next up, the Cesium Balter, and 

396
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,240
I won't give any a lie. 
There's there's a stock on the 

397
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,280
TSXV chance that is had a 
stellar run this year. 

398
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,360
It's it's power metals, it's up 
to 213% year to date. 

399
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,520
I think if you look at it on a 
one year basis, it's up over 

400
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:19,160
400%, which gives this little 
company a market cap of 212 

401
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,720
million Canadian dollars at the 
time of recording. 

402
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,480
It's it's on, it's on the back 
of the discovery, you know, 

403
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,560
particularly niche commodity, 
which is cesium. 

404
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,720
Now cesium is a, is a commodity.
I, I actually took a bit of 

405
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,160
interest in this commodity late 
last year because I met a fellow

406
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,160
who was telling me how Sino mine
has a monopoly on the cesium 

407
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,400
market. 
And that got me really curious 

408
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,800
because monopolies are these 
beautiful but rare phenomenons 

409
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,520
in, in commodity markets where 
they can surface is though is in

410
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040
pretty niche minerals which have
a small market size. 

411
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,920
And cesium market fits that bill
absolutely completely. 

412
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,280
This market is super opaque for 
what it's worth. 

413
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,920
So these, these numbers I'm 
about to throw out there are 

414
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,440
susceptible to being very wrong 
and there's a lot of variation 

415
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,240
in the numbers you'll find when 
you doing research on the size 

416
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,360
of this market. 
But, you know, for all intents 

417
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,320
and purposes, my, my research 
estimate of the size of the 

418
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,920
market, it's kind of being 
serviced by, you know, I mean a 

419
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,200
20,000 tons of, of cesium 
polycyte. 

420
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,800
Also, I'm talking about the 
actual ore tons being mined, 

421
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,640
which those that ore is 
processed into a a variety of 

422
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,560
different midstream products. 
The main one or most popular one

423
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,280
is, is cesium formite, which is 
actually a brine used in the oil

424
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,160
and gas industry as a drilling 
fluid. 

425
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,640
But there's a bunch of other 
types of kind of, you know, 

426
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,200
midstream products including 
cesium carbonate, cesium 

427
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,920
chloride, cesium nitrate, cesium
hydroxide, cesium sulfate. 

428
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,560
Is that a? 
Is that a screen grab from 

429
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,400
ChatGPT? 
Yeah, but I've heard it in a 

430
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:44,320
podcast too. 
So, so I've read some some 

431
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,040
estimates that the the annual 
value of all of these cesium 

432
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,920
products is, is ballpark US $340
million per annum. 

433
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,280
OK. 
It's a small, it's remarkably, 

434
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:57,720
it's a small, small market, 
right? 

435
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,360
There's a lot of variability in 
these estimates of market size. 

436
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,040
I'm sure the only, the only 
party that really knows the 

437
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,600
answer to this question is 
actually signed in mind. 

438
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,360
But regardless, the market, it's
not, it's not a huge market in 

439
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:12,560
terms of value, but what's more,
it's, it's pretty technical too,

440
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,560
because the, there's the 
refining component of the of the

441
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,760
various cesium products. 
You got to have some technical 

442
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,520
expertise in order to turn the 
ore into all of those various 

443
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,760
different sort of, you know, 
extreme or downstream products 

444
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,920
that I talked about. 
The majority of the world, 

445
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,320
cesium comes from one single 
mine in Canada. 

446
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,200
It's called the Tanko mine. 
Yes. 

447
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,680
Who owns tanko sign a mine? 
Who would have thought? 

448
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,680
Who would have thought? 
I got a picture here of what the

449
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,960
mine looks like and it's, it's 
obviously it's, it's kind of 

450
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,160
remarkable when you look at it, 
you can see these giant pillars 

451
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,240
holding up the roof of, of, of 
the underground. 

452
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,760
And that's because it's actually
under a lake. 

453
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,920
Yeah, right. 
It's like it's like a room and 

454
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,120
pillar joby but the the rooms 
are much bigger than the bloody 

455
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,920
pillars. 
The harder you want to take the 

456
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,160
rib pillars out at some stage. 
Yes, that's buddy. 

457
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,960
That's where friggin Sandvik 
ground support comes in. 

458
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,800
See the gaps there? 
They could just pepper all in 

459
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,200
between the pillars. 
Yes with Sandvik ground support.

460
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:15,680
Just to make sure it holds up. 
I would propose the new Sandvik 

461
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,400
dynamic bolt. 
So it's normally, for now, hear 

462
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,280
me out. 
It's normally for high stress 

463
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,480
environments. 
You think of all the boats and 

464
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,840
shit going along the lake and 
the bloody the tides and the 

465
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,160
bloody, just the turbulent 
nature. 

466
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,440
Pretty stressful. 
That is a friggin dynamic 

467
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,120
environment and that's where 
this could friggin come in. 

468
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:37,680
So this is perfect for the 
turbulent lake water and take 

469
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,080
out the sebic dynamic bolt. 
Mate, these bolts have been drop

470
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,760
tested. 
They've had the living shit drop

471
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,040
tested out of them. 
I'll show you a video here. 

472
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,520
Just hear the bank. 
Like at the bloody Wasam testing

473
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:53,760
facility. 
You know it's good. 

474
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,240
And mate, anything that comes 
out of Wasam, you know, it's the

475
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,480
best. 
So that is right. 

476
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,920
They they they could go down the
road of call on this the 

477
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,320
dynamics bolt. 
As I said, I reckon we could get

478
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,640
a better name for it, like D for
dynamic. 

479
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:12,880
The logical name for this bolt 
is the Derek Bolt in order of 

480
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,720
the great Derek heard. 
I propose the name of this is 

481
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,520
the Derek Bolt coming out the 
bloody look at it, the paddles, 

482
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,120
the friggin springs to mix, the 
resin D bonded in the centre, 

483
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:28,440
the perfect Derek, the dynamic 
bolt. 

484
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,840
We got a petition going. 
I didn't change. 

485
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,760
Derek the dynamic bolt. 
The Bolt innovation at this 

486
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,080
company mate. 
I'm just, I'm impressed. 

487
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,240
Oh mate, well there's obviously 
been like issues previously with

488
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,240
dynamic bolts of the mixing of 
the resins. 

489
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,960
So what are they put the mixing 
springs on the top and the on 

490
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,800
the collar and the toe? 
Because that's what Sambic does.

491
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,920
It's a company that listens 
mate. 

492
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,520
Oh mate, so OK well once after 
they go and they are they 

493
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,200
planning to extract these 
pillars? 

494
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,720
They, they actually, they 
actually do like so, you know, 

495
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,760
these, these pillars are what 
they do really want to mine, but

496
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,040
they're because there's a lake 
on top. 

497
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,880
Their plan is to, you know, 
drain or divert the lake so that

498
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,840
they can actually just open pit 
to access the, the, the pillars 

499
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,240
eventually. 
But crown supports another great

500
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,480
alternative. 
I think they, the, the way that 

501
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,960
sign of mine actually got their 
hands on this mine is super 

502
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,640
interesting to me. 
Like they, they bought this in 

503
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,520
2019. 
They paid $135 million US for 

504
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,440
the operation. 
And, and, and, and, and imagine,

505
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,200
imagine paying 135 million US to
get a monopoly on a critical 

506
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,280
metal. 
Like it's just an, an, an 

507
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,280
amazing deal. 
I, I think this was 2019, right 

508
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,000
before the West just started to 
crack down on Chinese investment

509
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,000
into critical minerals. 
And instead of objecting to the 

510
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,800
deal, which would certainly 
happen today, the, the Canadian 

511
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,400
regulator approved it in the 
minimum time frame of 45 days. 

512
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,960
But that that approval didn't 
didn't age particularly well 

513
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,320
because within a few years the 
Canadian government started to 

514
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,640
put the squeeze on some of 
mine's ability to, you know, 

515
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,840
invest and expand. 
One of the orders that the the 

516
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,440
the Chinese government save to 
sign of mine was ordering it to 

517
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,840
sell its equity stake and off 
take in none other than power 

518
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,640
metals. 
That equity stake that that 

519
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,000
equity stake in power metals is 
the very equity stake that ASX 

520
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,920
listed Winsome resources ended 
picking end up picking up. 

521
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,480
They paid 2,000,000 bucks for 
7.5 million shares and 7.5 

522
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,160
million warrants, which were 
which are well in the money 

523
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,920
today and they they tipped in a 
bit more later on. 

524
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,680
I'll get to the implications for
for winsome shortly. 

525
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,360
The power metals they're case 
like project has come across 

526
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,920
some high grade cesium polysite,
which is yeah, what what you're 

527
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,560
looking for and it's near 
surface it's yeah, decent grade.

528
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,200
So everything is promising and 
but if you think of the the 

529
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,600
concentrated supply of this 
critical better production in 

530
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,600
the in the hands of the Chinese,
yeah, the, the stocks had a a 

531
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,320
really strong run like we talked
about. 

532
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,400
But it's early days and there's,
there's plenty to play out to 

533
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,920
see if the, the market cap can 
can today can justify the, the 

534
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,120
potential. 
But that's the nature of 

535
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,240
discoveries in our our industry.
Yeah, you know, the, the share 

536
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,600
price will run, but there's 
uncertainty, there's upside. 

537
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,920
You're trying to find the middle
ground. 

538
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,560
And with commodities that are 
monopolised in some part of the 

539
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,520
processing, like we, we do have 
here with the, with the, and the

540
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,720
reliance on the Chinese power 
metals, they've got their work 

541
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,240
cut out to sort of forge their 
own pathway. 

542
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,080
And yeah, I think it's, that's, 
that's all ahead of them. 

543
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,160
But the whole thing is, is 
particularly interesting for ASX

544
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,200
listed Winsome because the value
of their stake in the company is

545
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,000
now valued at 48 million 
Australian dollars. 

546
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,920
Winsome's market cap is only 
$76,000,000. 

547
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,800
And they'll also have $34 
million in cash after the raise 

548
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,360
they just did. 
So you can do a fully diluted EV

549
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,320
of Winsome and back out a pretty
tiny EV for that company right 

550
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,880
now, which unfortunately speaks 
to just the state of the lithium

551
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,320
market. 
Yeah, Jesus Christ. 

552
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,080
Pretty negative AP. 
Huh. 

553
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,640
It's yeah, I think fully diluted
it's slightly positive, yeah. 

554
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,800
Oh yeah, interesting. 
Tell, tell us a bit more. 

555
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,200
I've got a few sort of 
questions, but sure you've done 

556
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,920
a bit of digging on sources of 
cesium and and just the the kind

557
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,600
of market in general. 
So one of the one of the claims 

558
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,920
I read when I was researching 
this market is, is there are 

559
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,600
only three minds globally that 
have ever produced cesium. 

560
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,240
Tanko being the, you know, the 
dominant one, obviously, which 

561
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,720
I've I've talked about. 
The other two cesium mines are 

562
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,040
fascinating for different 
reasons. 

563
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,440
The first one is Bakeda, which 
JD, you and I are a bit more 

564
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,320
familiar with after a trip to 
Africa. 

565
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,200
This is better known as one of 
the lithium mines in Zimbabwe, 

566
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,960
which has a lot of pedalite 
lipidalite, but also cesium 

567
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,520
polycyte. 
And guess who owns this mine? 

568
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,080
Cynomine. 
None other than Cynomine. 

569
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,080
Of course, the other mine, 
possibly a surprise to you, but 

570
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,280
maybe not given what we 
discussed before we started 

571
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,680
recording. 
It's a mine called Sinclair, and

572
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,040
Sinclair Cesium deposit was 
discovered in 2016, delineated 

573
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,600
in 2017, then completely mined 
out in 2018 and early 2019. 

574
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,200
Was X strata? 
No, it was a company called 

575
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,800
Pioneer, which became essential,
which is now developed. 

576
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,400
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, right. 

577
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:00,960
Yes. 
Oh, Sinclair. 

578
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,320
Sinclair deposit, No Burncard 
had a contract at Sinclair, 

579
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:05,840
Yeah. 
Where, where is the? 

580
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,920
Deposit. 
So this is this is like Pioneer.

581
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,800
It's like 60 kilometres South of
Norsemen. 

582
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,960
Oh it is. 
Sinclair Deposit is part of 

583
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,080
Pioneer. 
Sinclair is, is is, Yeah, it's, 

584
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,880
I mean, it's tiny. 
It's completely mined out. 

585
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,760
And obviously the market size is
small as well. 

586
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,000
But yeah, that's where, that's 
where this where caesium was, 

587
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,640
was developed. 
Yeah, it was in there. 

588
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,320
It was in develops. 
I think it was a quarterly or 

589
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,440
something talking about the 
potential cesium deposit. 

590
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,160
I'd Zinclair, yeah. 
I've read through the the scheme

591
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,080
docs just when I was researching
this piece to see any talk of 

592
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,440
that cesium deposit and 
everything, but yeah, that there

593
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,400
there was AI didn't see anything
that kind of talked about future

594
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,320
opportunities or whatever but 
yeah who knows there might be 

595
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,120
yeah, might be more defined 
there, but I'd. 

596
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,440
Be curious to hear from them. 
It was used to be. 

597
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,800
Was there a Sinclair nickel 
mine? 

598
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,520
Maybe. 
Unless it's the same fucking 

599
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,840
mine. 
I'd be curious to know from any 

600
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:08,080
any geos given the sort of 
relationship with lithium type 

601
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:08,920
type. 
Water bodies. 

602
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,680
Sinclair was where is it? 
No, it's obviously it was. 

603
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,200
Obviously it was West 81 K is 
West of Leonora. 

604
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,120
That was the Sinclair nickel 
mine owned by Xstrata. 

605
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,440
So this is a different, Yeah, 
that's why. 

606
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,680
What I did come across when I 
was researching this market is 

607
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,480
it's actually much harder to 
find than than spot. 

608
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,680
You mean because you don't have 
the outcropping to go off when 

609
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,400
you're actually exploring for, 
yes, your cesium deposits? 

610
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,240
Very small market. 
Fuck we we found out how easy it

611
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,040
is to find Spodumain because 
friggin everyone found it. 

612
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,280
Just wait for a price rise and 
get everyone. 

613
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,400
Looking at the predicament we're
in, sorry, it was very easy to 

614
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,920
find pigmentites. 
Some of them were spodumain 

615
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,920
dummy ass on one that wasn't 
very good bloody. 

616
00:30:59,000 --> 00:30:59,720
Really interesting. 
Very. 

617
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,680
Interesting, buddy. 
Right, I'll, I'll Billy bought 

618
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,400
it. 
Mightn't have been about the 

619
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,400
lithium, could have been the 
cesium. 

620
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,320
You know what I think if it, if 
it. 

621
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,320
Ends up going off. 
You'll definitely climb it, I'll

622
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,720
know that. 
Before this, the only use case 

623
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,040
for cesium that I knew about and
obviously it's used in oil 

624
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,320
drilling, bronze or oil drilling
way more than this, but was 

625
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,000
like, you know, the atomic 
clocks that are so precise, 

626
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,800
that's like on the decay of a 
cesium Adam or something like 

627
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,240
that. 
That's, you know, it's all I'd 

628
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,760
ever come across Cesium. 
Back there you go. 

629
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,280
Wow, well they wanted home 
'cause me freaking battery keeps

630
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,360
running out and then the kids 
are late for school all the time

631
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,760
'cause my clocks wrong. 
I need some cesium all. 

632
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,560
All our clocks are synced to 
him. 

633
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,200
Alright, let's go bloody, let's 
go local. 

634
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,680
We've got Black Cat grabbing the
Lakewood biggest not not the 

635
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,120
best cast. 
Bloody secret. 

636
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,040
It was in the IFR that West Gold
were selling it. 

637
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,600
Blackout have picked it up. 
Obviously all the bloody look at

638
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,320
the tenants they got boys. 
The Kalis now feeding into the 

639
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,440
postage stamp. 
That is bloody Lakewood mate. 

640
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,360
Oh look at those tenements. 
K drill doesn't start with AK 

641
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,000
for no reason. 
It is Kalgoorlie drilling and by

642
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,120
within the proximity to 
Kalgoorlie you want to you want 

643
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,360
to drill the shit out of 
anything near Kalgoorlie K drill

644
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,840
first call. 
Like not even this is like 

645
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,360
central gold fields like mate. 
First call, second call, last 

646
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,920
call. 
K Drill. 

647
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,120
I won't mention what they'll get
in trouble for mentioning that 

648
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,640
company they get they're too 
precious to K. 

649
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,600
They sponsored the rou cocktail 
function. 

650
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,520
They did. 
I saw you had a brew with. 

651
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,440
They're now bringing the K, the 
Kalgoorlie Goldfield support to 

652
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,320
Perth. 
Like say they're giving back to 

653
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,480
to WA, give back to K drill by 
letting them blackout. 

654
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,080
Let them drill the shit out of 
all those bloody tenements out 

655
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,760
to the east there by the the 
imagine the Cal E contract. 

656
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,000
Everything they know at 
Paulson's is cause of Ron 

657
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,080
O'Sullivan anyway because they 
drilled that back in the day. 

658
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,080
It's a connection. 
Pay back Ron O'Sullivan by 

659
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,760
letting K drill drill those 
tenements. 

660
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,280
Anyway, let's get into the deal 
that was I think it's worst kept

661
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:13,160
secret that Westgar was selling 
the Lakewood mill Black cat were

662
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,160
the last company named in in 
that article they went through. 

663
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,680
There was God word on the 
decline that northern star with 

664
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,360
had picked it up because it's 
obviously a bus to I'll bring up

665
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,280
the thing picture here. 
It's like a postage stamp right 

666
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,960
next to the Super pit waste 
dumps effectively. 

667
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,640
So you know, it'd be Norton star
might like it to extend their 

668
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:36,920
waist dumps. 
They might. 

669
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,760
There's word on the decline. 
There's an all body under it. 

670
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,800
Like who who knows? 
But anyway, so this is pretty, 

671
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,760
this is pretty bloody big news 
for black cat and it really sets

672
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,800
them up for their the Cal E 
project. 

673
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,920
So like, because the Cal E Black
cat was Cal E like that was the 

674
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,560
big, that was their development 
pathway before Paulson's and 

675
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,120
coyote and coyote like that was.
And then that sort of got 

676
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,720
pushed, pushed to the side and 
then the focus was on Paulson's.

677
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,880
But now, like, we'll go through 
this and you know, this is, you 

678
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,920
know, doesn't a freaking good 
gold price help? 

679
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:21,000
When we first talked about Black
cat, talking about the the 

680
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,520
gabbro vine mineral resource and
all that. 

681
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,199
Yeah, yeah. 
And thinking, God, it's going to

682
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:27,400
be frigging hard to mine low 
grade. 

683
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,840
You know, gold was 2900 an ounce
Aussie then and we're now 

684
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,840
sitting at 4600. 
So it's amazing how everything 

685
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,239
has changed so quickly in gold. 
So look and what they've got 

686
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:44,120
today and this Cal E is like, 
you make your own judgement, but

687
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,760
it's like there is a lot of 
friggin Oz they can punch 

688
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,719
through here now. 
So they've picked it up off West

689
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,120
gold. 
Westcott obviously got it from 

690
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,040
the Corolla deal 85,000,000 
consideration 70 million is in 

691
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,520
cash staged over nine months and
15,000,000 Black Cat shares at 

692
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,840
$0.76. 
So they're already up on the 

693
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,200
script. 
So 1,000,000 deposit 24 mil by 

694
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,320
around 31st of March, 20 mil 
30th of June, another 20 five 

695
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,080
30th November this year. 
So they've got currently got 50 

696
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,120
because they did the big cap 
rise to sort of negate all the 

697
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,200
debt needed for the Paulson's 
refurbishment. 

698
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,080
So that 56 mil in the Kitty by 
the end of December quarter. 

699
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,800
So they're looking at you know, 
they've already they've they've 

700
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,360
been toll trading the gold at 
Paddington already. 

701
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,480
They've got the JV with MMS, 
free ad for MMS and Bob bloody 

702
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,320
salt pusher doing the haulage 
for it as well. 

703
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,040
God, I did the two wrong 
sponsors yesterday. 

704
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,560
This is not there. 
So bloody God, if I'm going to 

705
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,400
give it away to anyone, I'll 
give it to them too. 

706
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,920
So the, you know, the cash is 
starting to come in the door. 

707
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,160
They're mining or at the Myre. 
They've poured first gold at 

708
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,240
Paulsen's. 
That's all starting to ramp up 

709
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,720
and they're saying that they'll 
be able to, you know, pay this 

710
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:07,560
off with operational cash flows.
Got toll trading arrangement 

711
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,800
with West Gold. 
So it's a 1.2 billion tonne 

712
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,600
plant. 
West gold can toll trade 200,000

713
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,720
tonne a year for the next two 
years. 

714
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:21,480
They have the option too. 
So potentially they can make 

715
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,400
revenue from the toll trading 
while Cal E ramps up if needed. 

716
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,920
Like so you think of like not 
that they'd do this but 

717
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,680
hypothetically a 1.2 million 
tonne mill they could toll trade

718
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,440
at 50 bucks a tonne. 
So you could bring in 60 mill 

719
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,960
revenue a year. 
Mine is all the cost just from 

720
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,680
using that as a toll trading 
plan. 

721
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:45,440
Yeah, the benefit to them now 
because they're gold sale, so 

722
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,440
they'll sell on the gold to 
Paddington Norton Goldfields. 

723
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,160
With that, the you have to agree
on a gride. 

724
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,000
So there'd be like, you know, 
top cuts and everything. 

725
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,400
You have to agree on recovery 
processing costs and everything.

726
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:03,400
And now I have full control, 
full upside to that process of 

727
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:04,840
bringing the gold to their 
plants. 

728
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,400
So obviously coughing up cash 
for that privilege, I would 

729
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,880
imagine for that. 
So it's AJV with four in regards

730
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,680
to the JV with MMS. 
So they have to blackout, have 

731
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:26,640
to 1st repay the development 
costs to MMS, which I assume is,

732
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,240
you know, the pre everything, 
the cost of everything to 1st 

733
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:31,720
all. 
That's how I interpret 

734
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:36,160
development costs. 
Once I pay that back, Black cat 

735
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:41,760
then get the next 30 mil of cash
flows and then following that 

736
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:47,600
it's the JV, which I think is 
pretty sure it's 3070 thirty 30%

737
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,960
MMS, 70% black cat. 
Profit share after that, yeah. 

738
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,440
So now I was showing with this, 
I think it's be better for both 

739
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,680
parties. 
They get the upside of the 

740
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,800
processing like upside of grade 
recovery and everything should 

741
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,920
generate cash quicker on a 
tolling arrangement because 

742
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,160
you're not paying to trade it or
you're not selling it to Norton.

743
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:11,840
They don't, they don't buy the 
gold at a loss. 

744
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:20,040
So it's it's good there. 
So, so I'll be thinking and the 

745
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,200
whole thing is right, can they 
will all that cash be enough to,

746
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,240
you know, pay these stage 
payments for the year because 

747
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:29,680
it's a bit of cash going out the
door this year they've. 

748
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:31,720
Gone. 
To be clear, it's not that long 

749
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,720
a timeline. 
No, no, it's not it's not not 

750
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,400
production based, it's time 
based. 

751
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,760
So you know, it's looking, 
looking with what they've gotten

752
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,000
gold revenue coming in should 
like, should be able to do it. 

753
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,440
But and you know, they're 
unhedged and everything. 

754
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,200
So the, the thing about the 
Lakewood thing, I mean, you've, 

755
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,600
you've chatted about it before 
is the lifespan and that is the 

756
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,320
question. 
So they've just put a, you can 

757
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,400
see here the big picture, the 
it's on a bit of a postage chair

758
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,280
stamp. 
They got a brand new tailings 

759
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,880
dam there. 
But the, the exact time 

760
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,240
lifespan, I know I've heard many
different versions. 

761
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:13,080
I've heard fight once they've 
got all the lifts, they approve,

762
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,800
they've got approved. 
It's a 5. 

763
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,280
They've got five years worth of 
tailings they can put in there. 

764
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,960
Yeah, it might be a bit 
confusing to people listening. 

765
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,120
We're not talking about the mine
itself, we're talking about the 

766
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,800
lifespan of the plant because of
the limited space to put your 

767
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,440
tailings. 
There's nowhere else to put a 

768
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,120
tailing stand so and they can 
you can only it's approved to I 

769
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,440
think lift I'm not sure what it 
is. 

770
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,320
It's usually what 4 lifts or 
something. 

771
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,000
As in pretty much build the 
walls high so you can put more 

772
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,520
tailings in of her. 
There's possibility of going 

773
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,560
beyond that to nine years. 
I don't know if. 

774
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,640
There was talk at the pub. 
There was talk at the pub and it

775
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,160
might have been incentivised 
talk, don't know, but five 

776
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,080
years, if we work on five years 
because you look at the ground 

777
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,280
they've got around for the 
Calais, there's obviously 

778
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,360
Boundary Mario which they got at
the moment, they got that 

779
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,160
fingers, fortune, everything to 
the South. 

780
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:12,080
So there's and you, you look at 
like collectively so. 1.2 

781
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,160
million tonne mill, let's just 
say 1,000,000 tonne a year. 

782
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,200
What what's there there it and 
it's got a fixed lifespan. 

783
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,880
It's like this is like what the 
direction of this company is 

784
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,800
like hypothetically, you don't 
want to tolerate too much 

785
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,840
because that's taken off your or
that you want to put through in 

786
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,640
that five years. 
Let's say you've only got five 

787
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,640
years worth of milling to do 
because if you like, if you add 

788
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,120
up their resource like look at 
Myre Underground, Majestic 

789
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,600
Underground, Trojan resource and
fingers open pits, there's 

790
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,440
that's over 5 million tonne at 
1,000,000 tonne a year. 

791
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:51,400
So it's like they've got enough 
resource at the moment to fill 

792
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,640
that mill over that time. 
So but the pressure will be on 

793
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,440
will they have enough cash flow 
coming in to pay that without 

794
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,920
raising, without having to, you 
know, toll trade other people's 

795
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,840
dirt to bring in a bit of 
revenue to satisfy that. 

796
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,400
So I think that's where the 
balance of what their journey is

797
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,840
going to be to get all these 
things into production, make the

798
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,720
cash flow because they don't 
want to. 

799
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,800
Yeah, they you don't want to get
into a place like shit, we can't

800
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,760
use the mill anymore in five 
years time. 

801
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,680
When you talk. 
Or if it goes to nine years, 

802
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,440
it's all good. 
When you talk trade, are you and

803
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,960
total trading contracts 
typically structured as like a, 

804
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:27,520
you know, a dollar per tonne of 
ore? 

805
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,320
Do you get some of the upside of
like of the, Because let's say 

806
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,720
if if that was total trading 
stuff that was three times the 

807
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:34,520
grade of theirs and they're 
getting a share of the upside in

808
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,200
the in that person's ore, then 
it actually does make sense to 

809
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,960
prioritize someone else's ore if
it's three times a grade. 

810
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,640
Depends on yeah. 
It depends if it's a ore 

811
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,440
purchase agreement like if 
they're. 

812
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,400
On the terms, yeah. 
So like you know, I'll bring up 

813
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,120
West W Golds and new merchants 
and one I think it's at the 

814
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,040
bottom Ding Ding, Ding for 
allergy. 

815
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,360
So there. 
So there I think it works out 

816
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:04,040
effectively lot they have to pay
30 to $45.00 of processing cost 

817
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,560
per tonne which gets taken off 
the gold price and all that. 

818
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,480
So it works out, they get I 
think new purchase and get 83% 

819
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,600
of the gold price. 
But if the gold price is high, 

820
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,040
as you said, they're getting 
more bang for Bucky out of West 

821
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,760
gold are getting more bang for 
Bucky out of the 17 percent, the

822
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,160
17 percent of a higher gold 
price is worth more. 

823
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,560
So that that's for an all 
purchase agreement. 

824
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,720
If it's a like a toll treating 
agreement, it might be we'll 

825
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:30,840
send you all the ore. 
It's frigging we campaign and 

826
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,360
we'll charge you 50 bucks a 
tonne and you get the gold out. 

827
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,720
So they're not they're stopping 
all their all, but they're 

828
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:39,920
trading your all in one parcel. 
So you know, 50 bucks a tonne 

829
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,360
for a whole year. 
There's 60 Miller revenue. 

830
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,640
So yeah, all. 
Depends how yeah structure it. 

831
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,760
I wouldn't depending on price or
this would be a thumbs up, but I

832
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,720
would imagine you would make 
more money long term trading all

833
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:58,200
of your own ore instead of 
having an arrangement with 

834
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,720
another company for their role. 
And the, the, the value of the 

835
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,440
infrastructure, like even though
it's got the limited lifespan, 

836
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,120
I'm pretty sure the dynamics and
category at the moment are like,

837
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,400
OK, where else can you total 
trade? 

838
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,600
Or if you a lot, a lot of random
projects are suddenly in the 

839
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,520
money, right? 
Yep. 

840
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,600
As long as you can get your 
process at a meal somewhere that

841
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,000
is economic to track to. 
Well this is it's in a good 

842
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,040
location, plenty of things 
attractable to it and capacity 

843
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:23,920
at meals. 
You can actually total trade at 

844
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,160
close to 0 like people have been
doing it at Paddington. 

845
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,320
Like that's because FMR which is
typically where you go to to to 

846
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,560
Toll Tree fucking booked out by 
Northern Star. 

847
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,680
Yeah, yeah. 
And then I suppose there's, you 

848
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,280
know typical supply and demand. 
It mightn't be if there's 

849
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,960
nowhere to put it, people might 
pay 60 or $70.00 a tonne, I'm 

850
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:45,120
not sure. 
Totally, totally. 

851
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,480
So they might, they might 
sacrifice production later on 

852
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,640
and take a bit of sugar. 
But then it'd be interesting to 

853
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:56,640
see as the KCGM expansion ramps 
up how that yeah, you know, 

854
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,880
supply dot to make the. 
Capacity maybe, yeah. 

855
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,280
Yeah. 
And then if that, like imagine 

856
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,560
if someone then picks up Command
and Bell that gets taken out of 

857
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,320
Golden Star. 
And then so I think there's a 

858
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,680
lot of, there's a journey of 
processing to happen in and 

859
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,880
around Kalgoorlie. 
It's lots of expansion that's 

860
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:13,720
happening too, yeah. 
Like. 

861
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,840
Yeah. 
Evolutions still expanding and 

862
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,560
and Digeon's massively 
expanding, yeah. 

863
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:23,680
Yeah, like we'll like I think 
Silver Lake have got a pretty 

864
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,880
big between the stockpiles and 
all the pits they're bringing 

865
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,440
on. 
Like Mount Mongers probably got 

866
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,480
a bit of life there. 
Like does that come into the 

867
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,600
mix? 
Like does Jubilee get 

868
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,880
refurbished by someone? 
Does Northern Star get rid of 

869
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,080
that? 
Like there's my whiff. 

870
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,760
We should just do a meal 
episode. 

871
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,480
Can't Storis is on the board 
now. 

872
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,360
You probably can't do podcasts. 
A lot of deals to be done in the

873
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,000
area. 
Store it says you're bloody is 

874
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,440
Someone Like You that's not on a
board that could come and talk 

875
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,960
shit on a podcast. 
Let us know. 

876
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:58,720
So I, I think that whole, I 
think it's given him a lot of a 

877
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:03,120
bit of bloody bit of power in 
the district, like with on a 

878
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,520
smaller scale, like being able 
to, you know, hold the keys to 

879
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,400
processing who's going to 
process what. 

880
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,600
Like there's a bit of, there's 
obviously got a lot of resource 

881
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,000
areas to develop out at Calais 
there. 

882
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,840
So yeah, it's really fucking 
looks. 

883
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,880
Looks like a bit going on there.
Yeah, and hence West Gold 

884
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,560
retaining that optionality, just
getting the first priority case 

885
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,520
they want it that 200,000 oz per
annum. 

886
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,840
Yeah, smart thing to do if 
you're the the seller. 

887
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,240
Yes, sorry, 1000 tons forever. 
And I suppose it shows like 

888
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,240
what's what's this mean for 
Westgard? 

889
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,360
You could infer that, OK, they 
didn't they didn't have enough 

890
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,760
dirt to fill both Higginsville 
and Lakewood at the moment. 

891
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,680
Would do. 
I reckon it's it's a win, win, 

892
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:47,600
win. 
Great. 

893
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,000
Great for them because they're 
like bloody, they get 7570 mil 

894
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,280
cash within the year and they're
already up on the bloody Black 

895
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,520
Cat shares, which are escrowed 
for 12 months. 

896
00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:00,200
Pardon me? 
They can roll that into 

897
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,440
expanding Higgins Field. 
They're talking about expanding 

898
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,240
Higgins Field. 
Wiser. 

899
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,040
For a period of time, they were 
they, they they'd switched off 

900
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,720
their open pits in the Southern 
Goldfields region, West Gold, 

901
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:15,880
and now they're coming back on. 
So like to the extent they were 

902
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,560
fairly constrained, maybe that 
was a temporary thing because 

903
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,800
you didn't have the open pit 
feed. 

904
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
To your point, it's all about 

905
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,960
it. 
Makes sense that like is you 

906
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,360
know Pantoro going to be on the 
on the radar for West Guild to 

907
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,240
make more out of that region. 
Who? 

908
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,440
No deal Roadshow just happened. 
No deal roadshow like is like if

909
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,880
they expand to 4 million tonne 
will astral like they got, you 

910
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,040
know, get 1,000,001 to 2,000,000
tonne out of that a year. 

911
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,960
Once that pick gets flawed, 
probably like that could be the 

912
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,440
supplement. 
They could really start 

913
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,240
consolidating that region. 
So it'd be interesting to see 

914
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,240
what they're if I'll just keep, 
I suppose. 

915
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:57,040
Would you say in history 
sometimes, like when the 

916
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:58,920
companies are down, it's like 
right, we might as well just 

917
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,960
keep bloody pump and script and 
do deals and set ourselves up 

918
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:03,720
for the future. 
Who knows? 

919
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,840
Who knows if that's going to be 
West Gold's mentality. 

920
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,440
So I can't. 
But yeah, beta getting beta hunk

921
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,280
on that's. 
Getting getting bigger has been 

922
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,440
part of the MO for for a while. 
Oh, and it's good I didn't, I 

923
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,760
didn't realise that. 
Like, it's pretty deep, mind. 

924
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,280
Yeah, you were saying down at 
Beta Hunt. 

925
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,280
Yeah, Fletcher where they're, I 
was in. 

926
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,240
Yeah, I did. 
I did not realize how deep it 

927
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:30,320
was, but it's there's some 
freaking high pockets of high 

928
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,560
grade there if they can make it 
bloody happen. 

929
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,920
So yeah, big going on. 
So buddy, what's black Black 

930
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:38,160
Cats? 
What half a billion dollar 

931
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,360
company now? 
Lot has changed in the last 18 

932
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:42,480
months, hasn't it? 
Yeah. 

933
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,880
So there's going to be a bit 
going on there, yes, so good. 

934
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:49,960
Leave a go. 
I love talking about gold. 

935
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,800
More deals to come, Maddie. 
I think that's the the way to 

936
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,760
sign off on that 10. 
Mate, every bloody mate. 

937
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,640
That's the thing, like 
everyone's saying, oh, we have 

938
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:58,720
to. 
All the pits are being mined. 

939
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:02,320
We have to go deeper for gold. 
Not the case because all the 

940
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,960
pits that were mined, that were 
economic, there's frigging gold 

941
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,600
everywhere. 
Going to set up a different 

942
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:12,040
grade now, right? 
Speaking of making a Black Hat, 

943
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,600
better Mineral mining services. 
MMS they are. 

944
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:16,960
Oh mate, they're going to be 
bloody. 

945
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:18,800
The cash will be coming in for 
them soon. 

946
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,280
Grounded construction Group, 
Sammy Ground support taking 

947
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,920
advantage of the cesium mayhem 
and CRE insurance. 

948
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,960
That joint looked like probably 
needs insurance once they ripped

949
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,120
those pillars out. 
Catering, propelling, black cat,

950
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,720
salt Bush contracting. 
They're already all into 

951
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:39,920
Paddington now that we all into 
Lakewood. 

952
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:43,560
Swig 78,000,000 metres. 
That's all I have to say. 

953
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,240
Quattro project engineering 
could do a bit of refurb on the 

954
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:50,280
Lakewood if needed. 
Call Quattro cross boundary 

955
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,480
energy. 
I'll now that have to Yeah I 

956
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,200
know to be out there somewhere 
and get your bloody underground 

957
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,920
operators tickets. 100 bucks 
off. 

958
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,040
Link of the show notes. 
Hoodoo money mods. 

959
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,360
Go Australia, hoodoo. 
Gosh, information contained in 

960
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,160
this episode of Money of Mine is
of general nature only and does 

961
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,960
not take into account the 
objectives, financial situation,

962
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,040
or needs of any particular 
person. 

963
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,360
Before making any investment 
decision, you should consult 

964
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,440
with your financial advisor and 
consider how appropriate the 

965
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,120
advice is to your objectives, 
financial situation and needs.