1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,040 Righto Bunny Bonners Thursday Special big going on today, 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,120 boys. Some big cash getting changed 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,880 hands at Pilbara. Holy Snapp and Dutchie, you boys 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,160 are going into a behemoth of a freaking copper gold project as 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:13,400 well. Yeah, very. 6 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,120 Interesting. It's an interesting part of the 7 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,640 world, yeah. And it's a name there not too 8 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,480 many people really know or care about. 9 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,960 But yeah, it doesn't mean that we're not interested, Maddie. 10 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,480 They'll care after today, Trav, because if you care, everyone 11 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,040 cares. And the you deal. 12 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,120 Look what Look what happened with Sierra, Ruta and I. 13 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,320 Still know what it is delisted today so there's like it was 14 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,360 complete. People cared for a bit. 15 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:35,920 It'll go back to no one cares about. 16 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,640 That you're gonna touch on the big fission power. 17 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,680 Yeah, very open ended. Nothing provided there, but 18 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,320 there's there's just a bit going on in that deal and whether it 19 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,240 will happen. Oh bloody, who knows, The thing 20 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,440 that will happen, and probably already has happened this week 21 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,440 is probably MMS should have secured open pit mining contract 22 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,560 'cause we bloody we throw it out there to the companies that 23 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,120 they're right, they're available, they're ready to go, 24 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,160 they're ready to start moving dirt and start making your 25 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,720 money, whether it's for a bloody contract or AJV arrangement. 26 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,520 And I I assume their phone's been going off the hook this 27 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,920 week, but doesn't mean you still can't call them. 28 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,000 Mattie, you, you put it out to the companies, I reckon you put 29 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,160 it out to the shareholders to put pressure on the companies to 30 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,480 be like, hey, you, you got, you got approval to minister and why 31 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,080 are you just sitting on it and minister right there. 32 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,240 They got the fleet like after. The fundies we've interviewed 33 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,200 that are like on the register of these small companies bloody put 34 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,440 the boot in and tell them to get MMS, mine and the dirt straight 35 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,800 away. Every cash is good for everyone. 36 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,160 So boys, what is going on with Pilbara? 37 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:42,040 Big chunky block trade today and mate, yeah, to be honest I 38 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,960 didn't stupidly didn't even know this mob was a shareholder, but 39 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:47,480 I do now, thank you very much. Now you know. 40 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,560 Yeah, I, I forgot to be honest too. 41 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,480 So no, no, no worries at all, Maddie. 42 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:52,800 But there's a, there's a back story, right? 43 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,160 It's actually a pretty interesting story. 44 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:59,360 So AFR they reported that a giant $271,000,000 block trade 45 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,560 of Pilgrim Minerals was being fished out yesterday. 46 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,200 That represents a nearly nearly 3% interest in the, in the stock 47 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,240 of the, you know, lithium miner, which still has like a healthy 48 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,800 $10 billion market cap. Here's the bit that was really 49 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,040 interesting to me in the article that Straight Talk put up says 50 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,040 the trade was under a 4% discount to the $3.31 last 51 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,480 close. Forces said the block trade was 52 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,040 a secondary share sale stemming from an equity colour 53 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,360 transaction for China's Ganfeng, which owns 5.7% of Pilbara. 54 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,000 Secondary share sales stemming from an equity colour 55 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,280 transaction is. I spent my morning figuring out 56 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,240 the mechanics of how an equity colour transaction happens. 57 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:43,360 Why is there a block trade anyway? 58 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,680 What did you find out? If it's, if it, if it's it took 59 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,400 me water up my head around it. But I think I kind of get the 60 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,600 mechanics now. But basically Ganfing have owned 61 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,280 stock in Pilbara dating all the way back to 2017. 62 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,520 That 5.7% stake has been like basically the same shareholding 63 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,840 at least for like the last four years in Pilbara. 64 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:07,040 As early as May 2023 I found a Ganfing release where they talk 65 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,360 about their trading approach and it explicitly talks about 66 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,440 potentially using these equity colours. 67 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,880 I'll read this bit out. It says the trading approaches 68 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,680 include but are not limited to utilising derivatives portfolios 69 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,640 such as a colour position to protect the value of shares, 70 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,760 such as the shares of Pilgrim Minerals held by the company. 71 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,320 The derivatives that the company will trade involve both offshore 72 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,400 and over the counter contracts. The counter parties for the 73 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,440 company's derivatives trading will be limited to financial 74 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,680 institutions with prudent operations and sound credit 75 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,800 ratings. So if, if Ganfing has has been 76 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,480 using these, these colours, like, because I found that that 77 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,840 release was like 2023 and so over a year ago, but I don't, I 78 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,600 don't know if there's any indication that they've ever 79 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:48,880 used these kinds of colours before. 80 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,120 In fact, kind of today might, might actually be the first time 81 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,200 that we've actually kind of seen this, this happened by them. 82 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,160 But you know, but, but it does pose a bit of a question like 83 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,800 what's with the block trade, right? 84 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,680 If, if you're using on derivatives and options and all 85 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,960 that sort of stuff, why does it involve a block trade? 86 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,280 There's a secondary part of that. 87 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,720 And before I answer that question, there's one other 88 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,480 detail that's kind of worthy of of pointing out to that really 89 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,000 caught my eye and that's the fact that the AFR article says 90 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,880 it was at a 4% discount to last. And normally when you see these 91 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,720 block trades, they're kind of priced with a bit more of a 92 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,400 discount than a 4%. Remember the FMG 1 was like, you 93 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,480 know, a fair bit more than that. And FMG is a bigger company than 94 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:28,440 the. Spartan one. 95 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,520 That was probably more than 4%. Yeah, I. 96 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:33,080 Think, yeah, I mean Spartan's a much smaller company, but but 97 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,280 FMG is like, you know, like much bigger than Pilgrim. 98 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:37,800 I think there was like a six odd percent one. 99 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,280 It was all set out in stages, depending on how much interest 100 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:41,280 there was in these things. Yeah. 101 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:43,040 Yeah, so the 4% really caught my eye. 102 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,160 And there's even like you got Bloomberg, you can find this 103 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,000 thing called the TCA general impact model. 104 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,160 That's like a on a theoretical kind of transaction cost impact 105 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,600 model, which can be used to sort of help price block trades of 106 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,200 these large, large caps. It's essentially kind of like 107 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,640 modelling what, what the transactional cost impact you 108 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,960 would have by selling kind of X percent of a stock that has, you 109 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,280 know, why, why volume or liquidity or whatever like that. 110 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,000 What what I've been told by someone who actually has a 111 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,920 Bloomberg Terminal, because I don't Bloomberg, if you want to 112 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:12,880 give me one, I'll take it. Got. 113 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,640 The cable drug in the car. Is that the the TCA model shows 114 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,080 that the the market impact should be 10 negative 10%, but 115 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,480 the blocks down at a 4% discount, which which I'm trying 116 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,120 to figure out these mechanics. I was like, that's, that's a bit 117 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,760 of a discrepancy. All right, so on game Fang, what 118 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,080 what's the kind of deal with these equity colours? 119 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,120 What did you find out a bit more and what are they actually doing 120 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,160 in in the scenario? An equity collar is a a trading 121 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,520 strategy that involves options that Ganfeng has used to protect 122 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,240 their downside. Is the easiest way to think of 123 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,680 it. A typical collar for for someone 124 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,400 who who owns stock and Ganfeng, they own stock it it and they've 125 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,160 just watched the share price go up a lot. 126 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:58,400 What you do in a, in a collar is you would, you would sell a 127 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,840 bunch of out of the money call options and simultaneously buy 128 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,920 out of the money put options. And it's a kind of, you can 129 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,480 think of it as like a bit of a, a bearish to neutral strategy 130 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,400 that you can employ. Your, your, your loss is limited 131 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,480 because you know, the, the put options protect that you've got, 132 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:15,960 you know, protection to the downside there. 133 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,520 But your upside is also now limited because you, you sold 134 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,320 call options and you have to pay the other side of that. 135 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,400 If if the price climbs, you know, into the, into the, into 136 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,480 the payout there. It's the name colour. 137 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,360 Colour a true a true colour is kind of you know is is is doubt 138 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,760 and neutral but like if if you are confused, I don't blame you 139 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,120 and don't worry too much. This is like this is wacko shit 140 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:39,120 that. Really end up if you're 141 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:45,560 confused. You like, you don't really have 142 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,600 to know about this stuff. It really happens in our world 143 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,680 and you know, the like ASX stocks don't even have a real 144 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,720 options market like you can get in the in the US. 145 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:58,800 But even even options of this scale, like the the the quantity 146 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,760 of this you, you basically need an investment bank to to write 147 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:04,080 the product, or in this case multiple investment banks 148 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,960 because you know, like the liquid options markets don't 149 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,680 don't don't even cut it for but this sort of size. 150 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,040 It's bespoke, right? Super. 151 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,560 Bespoke gang Fang going to the investment bank saying yeah, I 152 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,560 want to do this. That means to execute the trade 153 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,560 like, you know, they, they've in this case, they've lent on both 154 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,840 of Bank of America, B of A and Morgan Stanley together, those 155 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,720 investment banks, they use the balance sheet to underwrite the 156 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,320 other side of the trade for, for Ganfang, they'd make these kind 157 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,920 of synthetic instruments and, and they price them for Ganfang 158 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,200 to enter into. And in in this case, because 159 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,880 Ganfang has has bought an out of the money put option as part of 160 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,120 that colour, Morgan Stanley and B of A they they don't they want 161 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,000 to protect their own kind of downside. 162 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,840 And and in the case that Hilbro stock sufficiently falls, they 163 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,440 need a way to hedge that out. The process of the underwriter 164 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,400 being the banks to actually hedge out their exposure in the 165 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,560 case that they're on the hook because people share price fell 166 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:06,760 too much involves them selling Pilbara stock today. 167 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,440 Well, hence the block trade. The block trade is actually the 168 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,400 banks selling Pilbara stock. This is a, a weird one to wrap 169 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,120 your head around, but this, this block trade of the 82,000,000 170 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,480 shares that's been done, that's being done by the underwriters 171 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,080 and they've borrowed the stock from Ganfeng. 172 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,680 It's Ganfeng stock the banks have borrowed and the banks are 173 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,680 placing it out of that 4% discount, which is why it's a 174 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,000 bit tighter than you'd expect if it was a true block trade. 175 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,960 They do this to hedge out their own downside exposure. 176 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,000 Because if, if, if Hilbert share price fell too much, Ganfeng 177 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,880 could could, you know, they're, they're put now in the money in 178 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,480 the process of that they've got the right to sell their stock to 179 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,600 the underwriter. So their underwriter wants to 180 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,040 sell it today so that their, their, their own kind of, you 181 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,520 know, hedging situation is, is neutralised. 182 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,840 So did you say that they've put it out on gang fan of like done 183 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,080 what insta does? They've borrow like put it out 184 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,880 on borrow like a a fucking institution would if someone 185 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,800 wanted to short their stock. It it's but then. 186 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,080 They put it out on borrow, but then the bank's selling it. 187 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,440 It's it's not like it's put out on, but it is it is it is, it is 188 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,280 their stock that is sold been put out. 189 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,720 And it's instead of it being like another Insto that's short 190 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,640 selling, it's actually the underwriter, the bank that's 191 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,200 done it for them because they're trying to hedge out their 192 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,400 potential exposure because they've created the product 193 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,840 that's allowed protection for game thing. 194 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:30,240 So is game thing going to end up with to 250 million bucks less 195 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,760 amount of stock in Pilbara by the end of this? 196 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,520 No, no, it's not necessarily. It's just, but they still have a 197 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,200 beneficial interest in the 5.7%. Yeah, because they can. 198 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,480 They can call that back at any time from, from, from the banks. 199 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:46,200 There you go. OK. 200 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:47,440 So they're not selling them down? 201 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,360 No, Well, they they. There's not yet. 202 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,440 They there, there's a couple of interpretations of this, right? 203 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,800 And I think like, that's why I wanted to go deep in the 204 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,960 mechanics because I'm trying to figure out what is gang thing's 205 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,280 view here? Are they, are they bearish 206 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:02,760 lithium? Are they bearish Pilgrim 207 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,000 minerals? Are they just, or do they 208 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,960 themselves just need the cash? And I think there's, there's two 209 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,840 ways to interpret this. The, the 1st and more likely way 210 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,160 to interpret this, I think is I think gang thing like on their 211 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,000 own kind of books, they, they record their stake in Pilgrim 212 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,880 Minerals kind of mark to market, which, which means it comes up 213 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,360 as a, as a loss or a profit depending on what Pilgrim share 214 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,480 price sort of did. And you know, that could be 215 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,320 problematic in in and of itself. So they're, they're just trying 216 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,920 to hedge the impact of that because it's, you know, pretty 217 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,080 substantial loss on their kind of last reporting period. 218 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,120 But also Ganfang still has a fair whack of their own CapEx 219 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,480 ahead of them. There's still more ahead with 220 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Gulamina. Practical completion was 221 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,080 expected 30th of September, which is a couple of days ago, 222 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,120 but there's still more capital outlay Gulamina ahead before 223 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,400 it's sort of cash flow positive combined that too. 224 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,880 I think they've still got a fair whack of CapEx, you know, a 225 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,440 project in Argentina as well. And with like depressed lithium 226 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,560 prices, cash matters. So the transaction in a weird 227 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:05,520 way, it actually frees up some cash for gang thing. 228 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,200 It's a bit wacky to wrap your head around here because gang 229 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,480 thing has sold call options. Selling call option actually 230 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,000 gives you income. They've also bought put options. 231 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,280 And so buying the put options isn't you're, you're paying out 232 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:18,760 there. But the mechanism which gives 233 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,040 them cash today is the fact that there's this loan arrangement 234 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,480 with the underwriter of the bank where you know, they've lent 235 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,560 their shares to the bank, bank sold them. 236 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:28,680 But in exchange, Ganfeng gets gets a bunch of cash today as 237 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:30,440 well. So there's, there's basically 238 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,800 cash or capital freed up the Ganfeng to allocate to the, you 239 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,080 know, CapEx objectives and plans that they do have ahead of them 240 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,480 at some of these projects while the lithium markets are 241 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:40,600 depressed. Yeah. 242 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:44,720 So it's it's the same as any any mob that lends out their stock 243 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,640 when they to be sure that they get the money. 244 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,680 Yeah, there's, yeah, yeah, there's, there's mechanically 245 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:53,040 kind of a similar thing going on here. 246 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,200 Yes, yeah. Sorry, I've got that wrong. 247 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,280 When someone takes when a shorter activates a short 248 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:01,920 position, they get the money, yes. 249 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,680 Yeah, not the person that borrows it out, lends it out. 250 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,840 They just get the yes premium. On yes, yes. 251 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,520 Right. There's another interpretation 252 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,000 which oh, I, I fleshed out first, but I think, you know, 253 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,680 I'm sort of coming back to and think this is less likely. 254 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,440 But let's just entertain, you know, this other theory for a 255 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,840 moment too. Gun thing could be pretty 256 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,960 nervous about the potential downside, more downside in the 257 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,800 value of Pilbara stock. And they could have used this 258 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,640 bouncing sort of lithium price to, to hedge edge here, which is 259 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,640 kind of clever move if you think there's more pain on the 260 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,280 horizon. And look, if, if, if Ganfeng 261 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,680 thinks there's more downside from, from Pilbara, from here, 262 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:44,400 What like why, why would they think that? 263 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,640 We talked about this little kind of thing in our conversation 264 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,960 with YJ, which we put up on Friday last week. 265 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,560 Basically, Ganfeng, they are, they are best in business for, 266 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,720 for converting even crack spot into, you know, high grade kind 267 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,800 of battery material. They've notoriously dealt with 268 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,200 Minrez's, you know, Marion spot, which is, you know, pretty, 269 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,200 pretty low, low, low grade kind of product. 270 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,640 That's what gone that they put out there. 271 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,000 I've plucked this kind of cost curve from S&P. 272 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,760 So I'm, I'm sure there's a few issues with it and people point 273 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,520 out why it's wrong in a lot of different ways. 274 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,120 But just kind of take it with a grain of salt for now, because 275 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,600 this is the S and PS cost curve for 2025. 276 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,360 And I wanted to point out these, these are, I've highlighted the 277 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,720 S and PS highlighted before Lithium projects producing in 278 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,280 2025 that Yanfeng actually has an equity interest in. 279 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,960 I've added labels to the ones that Marion and Gulamina on 280 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,680 there just to sort of illustrate things because Gulamina is the 281 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:44,000 interesting 1. You know, like I said, Gulamina 282 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,800 practical completion was expected for that project on the 283 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,080 30th of September per kind of the latest announcement I could 284 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,080 get out of Leo Lithium talking about it. 285 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,400 And that's intriguing, right? Because Gangfang gets 100% of 286 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,840 the production Gulamina and other self, I wouldn't be 287 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,520 surprised to see, you know, gang thing eventually get their costs 288 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,200 from Gulamena to sort of, you know, and even the kind of lower 289 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,200 unit cost. And then Pilgrim was able to do 290 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,280 it. Pilgrim Gore I just. 291 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,880 So the ore body's phenomenal. That's why it's like Kathleen 292 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,440 Valley, but an open pit. Like in terms of the thickness 293 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,320 and, and everything. Well, it's pretty friggin 294 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:20,880 unreal. Yeah. 295 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,800 I wouldn't, you know, I've got no doubt that the Chinese will 296 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,160 have a way to get costs far lower than, you know, we can 297 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,280 imagine. Yeah, they're good at that shit. 298 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,480 So, you know, that's the other theory is there that that, you 299 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,240 know, maybe gang gang Fang have have a view on where the lithium 300 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:40,680 market's going to be for a period of time. 301 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,800 And then they're looking at Pilbury stock relative to all 302 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:43,640 that. They're looking at looking at 303 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,120 the cost curve and they're looking at where, where new 304 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,720 production is coming online, all that sort of stuff. 305 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,200 Even my gang thing, they currently take up to 310,000 306 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:58,280 tonnes of of spot from hill Gangora for for 2024-2025 and 26 307 00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,720 and that's their current off day. 308 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,640 But but yeah, I think there's a few different ways you can 309 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,840 interpret it. But then you know, the more one, 310 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,800 the kind of yeah, like and maybe it's a little bit of both. 311 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,280 Maybe it's a little bit of both in those theories. 312 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,080 Yeah. Do you think that do you think 313 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,920 there's any chance that they're throwing up capital to buy more 314 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,800 of a project? They they, they did something 315 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,800 really recently where they picked up 30% of an interest in 316 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,240 a projects. The 15% of an interest in a 317 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:28,080 project any anyway they you know, yeah, there's a bunch of 318 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,000 different competing objectives, I'm sure. 319 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,000 And the truth is like on a multiple basis, Pilbury still 320 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,880 does screen pretty expensive. Like that's why it's got such a 321 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,520 high short interest that it does because you're trying back out 322 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,360 the earnings and you're like, does this make sense? 323 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,280 I don't know. Do you think that ever trying to 324 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,680 get it past fur? But do you think that ever buy 325 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,640 more of Mount Marion off Min res? 326 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:52,600 I don't think Feb will get there. 327 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,200 No, because she's about maxed out now, yeah. 328 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,760 Yeah, I'd lean towards the the former rather than the latter, 329 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,400 just freeing up capital to invest in, in projects have that 330 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,080 flexibility like that they have been, you know, smashed on on 331 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:08,640 kind of all fronts over the past year. 332 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,720 They've got a heated debt in their own cap structure. 333 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,440 It's not like they're, they're somewhat like a lot of lithium 334 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,640 players, you know, they're, you know, distressed kind of period 335 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,640 of time. Yeah, good, good in the weeds 336 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,960 trap. It even confused the fuck out of 337 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:23,640 you. I think I. 338 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,960 Mate, I didn't fit the fuck I couldn't piece it all together 339 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,440 until the end anyway. It's like our back to the start 340 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,640 of the pod. Very good. 341 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,200 Right Next up, we're going to talk about an absolutely 342 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,160 freaking huge copper and gold project in Mongolia that I don't 343 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,440 think we've ever talked about before. 344 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:41,640 Yeah. I was scratching my head, I 345 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,000 can't remember. I think maybe a long time ago we 346 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,200 got might have given a dimension. 347 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,160 Oh no, but just there's never forget money miners. 348 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,120 Before project gets bloody huge, it has to be started. 349 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,240 That is philosophical. The first thing you need to do. 350 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,200 You've got a clear land, right? Exploration, drilling dams 351 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,680 before we get these rigging, billion tonne resources and 352 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,200 bloody Australian earthworks and haulage on the team to get it 353 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,240 done, isn't it? Too right? 354 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:14,160 You know another earth moving company does all this stuff, no? 355 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,000 No, the AES. Yeah. 356 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,200 Oh, they're tied in a EH. AEH. 357 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,560 And IES, there's a bit of bloody, there's a bit of mutual 358 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,200 stuff going on here. You know the only two acronyms 359 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,319 you need to know if it starts with. 360 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,000 AE, it's good. Yeah. 361 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,920 That's all you need to know. Look at this bloke. 362 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,200 We we gave Sheamus enough of a run. 363 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,360 We're going to give this this follow a run. 364 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:38,120 The main man of AEH, Reese Spatolni. 365 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:42,880 He's when he's not dressed up like this on the weekend, as you 366 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,960 can see he looks like this HD fitter covered in shit working. 367 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,400 He's bloody mate, he owns it, he operates the machinery. 368 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,000 He's the man, he's mate, he's the son of AGL and I've got it 369 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,800 on good authority that he was crushed rock was mixed with his 370 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,000 milk as a child. He is grew, grew up on dirt and 371 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,960 has now decided to move it. Bloody shits on Orem pisses gold 372 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,440 Nuggets like he is all over at this fella. 373 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,560 You need any earthwork job he's done? 374 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,920 Bloody premium mining post mining in the great state of WA 375 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,320 Give bloody race and the team at Australian Earthworks and 376 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,600 Haulage a friggin ring. Good. 377 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,520 Details are in the show notes. How good? 378 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,560 How good is this black cheesy? I trust him to move rock. 379 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,360 But he can move rock really well, funny, beautiful. 380 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,800 So we are talking about how do you pronounce this Xanadu? 381 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:35,920 Xanadu. Xanadu. 382 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,000 Xanadu. That's the closest I've ever got 383 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,400 to pronouncing something correctly. 384 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:45,080 You know the ABBA song we're playing, What's the next line? 385 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,560 It's an old classic movie as well. 386 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,360 But anyway, what we're talking about is copper and gold in 387 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,840 Mongolia, like you said, Maddie, so Mongolia right at the top 388 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,640 drawer. So these guys had an 389 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,040 announcement out yesterday which sort of piqued our interest. 390 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,960 And as you can see, it's been a a hell of a ride on the on the 391 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,320 spark chart been up and down. They I had a bit of a deal that 392 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,480 they announced a couple years ago now and there was a sort of 393 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,520 second iteration of that deal last year. 394 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,080 So we're going to get into the weeds on all of it. 395 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,240 But firstly, why it's kind of interesting. 396 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,480 So these guys are $100 million developer out there like like a 397 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:30,920 good few with substantial CapEx bill, but they have a PFS that 398 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,920 is imminent IE this month and they have a sort of potential 399 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,360 liquidity event. They've already got an 400 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,080 arrangement with Sage in which we're going to get into the 401 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,720 weeds of later on. But there's, yeah, there's some 402 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,400 key reasons why this one could to have some action happen in 403 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,760 the, in the nearer term rather than the the later term when you 404 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,640 kind of think of all those other copper hopefuls out there on the 405 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,800 ASX that just praying for somebody to come in and scoop 406 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,160 them up or help them out. So let's get into the the 407 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,520 project itself, because I think this gives the the overview that 408 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,920 you kind of need to know to understand how the the potential 409 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,400 deal machinations could work. But I remember about this 410 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,880 project, JD is it's, it's like it's enormous. 411 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,760 It's huge, but it's really low grade. 412 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,880 Yeah, in Mongolia and that's all I remember. 413 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,480 I. Always thought of it as like a, 414 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,120 you know, a smaller, not quite as good. 415 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,640 Oh you totally. So they both previously were 416 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,920 part of Turquoise Hill but back in the day and this one sort of 417 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,840 spun out a decade ago now in 20/20/14. 418 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,880 Turquoise Hill. Yeah, it sort of sits a couple 419 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,280 100 KS away in southern Mongolia there. 420 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,720 So a scoping study came out in 2022 that was actually an 421 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,680 updated one. There was one a few years before 422 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,080 that. The 2022 one was based on a 2021 423 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,640 one resource that was 1.1 billion tonnes for 3,000,000 424 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,440 tonnes of contained copper and 8,000,000 ounces of gold, about 425 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,880 half of that in the indicated category. 426 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,520 Then the scoping study from 20/22. 427 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,200 The numbers I'll quote here are 100% basis. 428 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:06,360 Xanadu at the time owned 76.5% of the project. 429 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,000 They were talking about an average annual production of 430 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,200 50,000 tonnes of copper and 110,000 ounces of gold, more 431 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,760 than sustaining costs of US $1.00 a pound. 432 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,040 Obviously netting off the byproduct credits from the the 433 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:25,760 gold there and an IRR of 20%. The 30 year mine life NPV using 434 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,160 8% discount rate of US $630 million. 435 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,560 So a couple other details that are important to know is that 436 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,800 they were first going to have a throughput of 15,000,000 tonnes 437 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,680 per annum. That was going to jump up to 30 438 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:45,280 million tonnes per annum CapEx of just under 700 million US net 439 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,960 revenue, which we'll touch on a bit later on why it could be 440 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,120 interesting of US $16 billion with the important price 441 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:57,880 assumptions of US $4.00 a # copper and US 1700, yeah, 1700 442 00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,520 an ounce. So they're, they're the kind of 443 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,600 key numbers that you you want to know from the scoping study. 444 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,160 But obviously it's been a couple years since then, a lot of 445 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,480 waters gone under the bridge. They've expanded that resource. 446 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,880 The contained copper is up some sort of 30 ish percent. 447 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,360 The gold is up to over 9 million oz contained. 448 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,280 Importantly on the Met side, they've done a fair bit of work 449 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,400 because they were building in a scenario with the top sort of 20 450 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:27,080 or 30 metres, about $100 million of pre strip was just waste. 451 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,520 Essentially, they've been looking just do a heat leak and 452 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,320 actually make a bit of money from that as opposed to just 453 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,600 being a $100 million liability the. 454 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,640 Other thing that stands out there. 455 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,440 So it's got some grade in it, really low grade. 456 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,520 It's not complete waste. Exactly. 457 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,080 Yeah, yeah, we've got Australian earthworks and haulage job. 458 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,200 He bothers sounds and I'll move it. 459 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,360 I don't think it stands out there mate. 460 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,160 Just on the like those numbers on the scoping study is, I mean 461 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,720 like a copper is a fair bit different and the gold price is 462 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,000 a fair bit different today to what is assumed there. 463 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,320 But but also just the the the CapEx like it was the scoping 464 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,920 study coming out before Zijin was was a board because that's 465 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,240 right. Zijin would probably be able to 466 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,320 deliver a project build kind of like below, whatever your 467 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,360 western kind of. Very very important point are. 468 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:16,960 Able to to construct something for two. 469 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,480 Yeah, 100%. You can call that a Western 470 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,680 style CapEx number, which Sage in, you know, being neighbours 471 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,520 and just being operators at scale. 472 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,000 You know, they've got a heap of mining operations around the 473 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,160 world if they've done this, you know, partnered with Ivanhoe in, 474 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,960 in Kamal Kakula and these sorts of things would be able to 475 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,960 deliver that cheaper than than sanity would. 476 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,760 Yeah, it's pretty bloody, isn't it? 477 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,760 Funny looking at these, I think what was BHP's one they did the 478 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,320 long aisles for Bloody what? Oak. 479 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,800 Damn. Which in in South Australia, 480 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,120 Yeah, yeah. Oh dear, like like coming back 481 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:55,480 at you know this point 3.4% copper just it might be the 482 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,240 thing now like it's. The scale game. 483 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,840 Yeah, yeah, so it's and look pretty unbelievable to get 484 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,000 frigging half a billion tonnes of indicated material that is 485 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,480 freaking huge reeks of a Cadrill standard. 486 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,840 Sure it does Martha Bill indicated bloody. 487 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,080 I can confirm that Cadrill didn't drill this mine out, but 488 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,280 it's possible of leverage someone of a similar standard 489 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,240 might have. They leverage their IP because 490 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,720 you're trying to Yeah, I. Think they were consulting over 491 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,560 the phone to Mongolia. So yeah, it's don't know. 492 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,640 There's no no bloody limitation to the bloody capability of K 493 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,480 drill. So because if I had a resource 494 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,560 like that in my backyard, I would make the correct life 495 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,680 decision to call Drew Harvey and call Ron O'Sullivan and get 496 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,440 bloody cadre to start pumping Arsene diamond holes in there 497 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,840 ready to go also ready to go for a contract right now. 498 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,720 So bloody don't don't be a snoozer and be late. 499 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,240 Call them right now. Drovers numbers in the show 500 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,040 notes. You know the safety standards 501 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,920 will be elite. You know they'll punch the 502 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,000 metres in the most efficient way possible. 503 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,800 You know the sample management is 6 star level above 5 star. 504 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,480 They're like one of those hotels that to get a six star rating 505 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,120 and not many of it 7/7 right. Yeah, J and you know the 506 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,760 resource will be bloody actual indicated because. 507 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,800 Yeah, straight away, Yeah, straight away. 508 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,880 It's absolute no brainer. So JJ, what about the Z Gin 509 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,000 side? What is going on there? 510 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,600 All right, so. Like I said, Maddie Z Gin really 511 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,160 interesting base. I have to sort of double check 512 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,240 that there are $100 billion in Aussie terms market cap company. 513 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,240 They're a big, big, big beast. Yeah, nearly as big as a bit 514 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,680 smaller than Rio. Yeah, yeah. 100 Bill Aussie. 515 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,960 Aussie, yeah, good, good. Bit smaller than Rio but firmly 516 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,000 one of the the biggest miners in the world, no doubt about it. 517 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,360 So they are 19.4% shareholders now. 518 00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:53,680 They first took a 9.9% stake in 2022 and they listed out this 519 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,960 sort of staged investment process. 520 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,520 It's going to be a sort of second and third phase that 521 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,480 would follow that would sort of see them logically lift to just 522 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,120 under 20%, and that happened. They went to 19.4% in early 523 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,160 2023. Which Ferb had to approve as 524 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,320 well, by the way. Yeah. 525 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,160 Importantly, Ferb approved that. So in March 23, at that point, 526 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,640 they created a 5050 JV which held what was previously the 527 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,440 Xanadu State. So that holds 76.5% of the 528 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,800 project. Z Gene put in US $35 million 529 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,360 into the joint venture that was to fund the PFS as well as some 530 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:34,320 exploration which would take 18 months, which kind of brings us 531 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,320 to today. Xanadu would remain the operator 532 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,240 during the PFS phase. And at the end of that 18 month 533 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,640 plan, Z Gen would become the operators, which again is where 534 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,840 we're kind of at today. And this came at a pretty 535 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,320 important time initially in 2022 for Xanadu. 536 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,040 They were in the doldrums a bit. They announced the deal at a 30% 537 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,160 premium to what the stock price was at. 538 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,760 So that was sort of circa 3%. Deal came in around 4%. 539 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,680 So it was a bit of a pick me up for the stock at the time that 540 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,120 went on for a bit of a run. Make such a different equation. 541 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:09,160 You go from being like a micro cap that's got a project with a 542 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,440 giant CapEx and you've got no way to actually find it. 543 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,520 All of a sudden, you know you now have a funding partner 544 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,680 that's serious. 100%, So we should touch on yesterday's 545 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,280 announcement before we get into where they kind of go from here. 546 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,840 So the update yesterday says they're in the final stages. 547 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:26,520 You can expect the PFS by mid October. 548 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,880 So in a couple weeks time. Cash is running a bit low. 549 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,640 There's about 5,000,000 bucks within Xanadu, another further 5 550 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,240 million within the joint venture. 551 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,920 They're planning for a BFS, which is kind of interesting 552 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,240 because the the earlier wording gave an indication that they 553 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,840 might not even really be considering. 554 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,440 They might just go straight from BFS to, you know, kind of 555 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,600 construction engineering work and and yeah, just power 556 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,400 straight ahead like season. By all accounts that came to 557 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,640 press on at some speed. You know, the operator 558 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,200 transition is underway. So the GM and chair of the joint 559 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,240 venture board is now Zeigen's nominee. 560 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,120 So this is a sort of four person board, two people from each 561 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,760 company. But importantly, any new budget 562 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,040 needs to be jointly agreed. So you can't have the kind of 563 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:18,080 classic trap where the major money, the major minor can just 564 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,400 flush out the junior by just spending more with a commitment 565 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,160 that the junior can't even meet. So that that's quite an 566 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,080 important detail that shouldn't be glossed over. 567 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,160 Totally. And heck, in that same part of 568 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,480 the world there was yeah, I think, you know, Turquoise Hill 569 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,360 would would, would remember a lot how challenging it is when 570 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,320 yeah, you've got a a major mind with the the money and the 571 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,960 challenges that come with being a minority joint venture party 572 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,680 party in the dynamics too, just. Drag you along the floor? 573 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:45,880 Yeah. Who's money? 574 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,000 Who says money doesn't buy happiness? 575 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,360 Though all righty. So this it lays out the 576 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,600 situation where we are kind of at now today. 577 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,840 So in March of 23, they put forward 3 potential ways for 578 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,360 this Zegin Xanadu relationship to advance. 579 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,240 And the sort of wording is post the PFS coming out, Xanadu has 580 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,440 the following options. Option A, they can fund 50% of 581 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,880 the construction bill themselves. 582 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,080 Option B, they can sell their 50% to Zegin for US $50 million. 583 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,280 Option C, they can sell half of their interest to to Zegin. the 584 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:29,320 US $25 million plus A0 cash loan carry for the remaining 25% to 585 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,640 commercial productions. I they can get Zegin to give 586 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,080 them debt to fund them through so that they don't have to stump 587 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,560 up and raise it to their equity, and that would. 588 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,080 Be pay back with free cash flow when it comes. 589 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,440 Exactly. Now there's sort of 1/4 option 590 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,720 here, which is not mentioned for Xanadu to look at, which is do a 591 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,360 deal with a third party or get creative in how they can try and 592 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,520 maximise the value for their shareholders. 593 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,480 And this is where I think we should kind of start, start a 594 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,400 bit of a discussion to start with. 595 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,800 I think option B, selling your stake for US $50 million would 596 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,320 be a bit of a travesty. I think the the company should 597 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,920 just come out and say that is not what we're going to do. 598 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,880 There's a whole lot more value in this project than just giving 599 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,520 it to to Zesian for $50 million. So it was a good thing at the 600 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,400 time when nobody liked the stock, but a bit of a, a bit of 601 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,800 a flaw under it, you know, gave them a bit of support. 602 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,960 But I don't think that is what they should look at the 603 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,120 renegotiation angle. I guess option D there is a kind 604 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,800 of interesting 1 and I want to play a little snippet from Colin 605 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,520 Moorhead, the the managing director of the company when he 606 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,280 spoke about this in a podcast earlier this year. 607 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,280 How other options are, you know, for us to go and fund our own 608 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,040 half? You know that that can be done, 609 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,160 but it's not really our preference or or to do some sort 610 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,680 of other deal with the gym to take the project. 611 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,360 Yeah, they're, they're at a, they're at a junction, right 612 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:56,400 where this is, this is kind of game time. 613 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,440 Like, you know, PFS is coming out so that Xanadu's in charge 614 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:00,840 of the PFS. They put the number out. 615 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,280 The number, the number in the PFS is like, we're going to be 616 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,840 big, big kind of part of the negotiations. 617 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,720 And so there'll be some gamesmanship going on there. 618 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,360 But it's super like there's an obvious deal that happens and 619 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,040 that's where like, you know, Asian acquires the other the 620 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,680 other half of the JV from, from Xanadu or just acquires Xanadu 621 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,440 outright at the premium or whatever it is. 622 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,600 Yeah, there's, there's, there's, can you get competitive 623 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,960 attention? It's tricky because you've got a 624 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,520 20% more nearly a 20% shareholder there in, in if 625 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,200 there was any change of control that is ZG in owning like, yeah, 626 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,760 19.4% of the stock in, in Zanadu. 627 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,640 It's kind of no one else kind of comes to play normally in those 628 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,120 situations unless you did another strategic placement to 629 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,040 someone else at a premium. That is a very interesting 630 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,280 point. Could they do another deal at a 631 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,560 premium with, I don't know, an IGO, someone like that to try 632 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:52,360 and. Create different. 633 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,840 To try and create a bit of tension and I had to do a bit of 634 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,240 digging into this one and they they. 635 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,320 Have the full right to like Zijin. 636 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,880 Can Zijin? Do they have any power over 637 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,560 them? So I went back to the 2022 638 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,800 announcement and found in the footnotes some wording around 639 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,840 this. The company, being Xanadu, has 640 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,800 granted Zijin the right to a reasonable opportunity to 641 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,880 participate in future capital raisings. 642 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,440 A reasonable opportunity. So that gets very legally and 643 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:19,960 it's not. It's not a top up, right? 644 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,160 That's not yeah. Yeah, I you'd have to be a 645 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,000 lawyer to sort of fight that one out. 646 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:25,920 I don't, I don't know, get loose. 647 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,360 Yeah. Because they say, you know, 648 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,440 subject to the limitations and conditions, they would give them 649 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,280 very short notice in which decision would have to reply, 650 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:40,120 yada yada yada. So OK, yeah, I don't that that 651 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,640 seems like a a hard one to kinda get done and stay within the 652 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,080 bounds of the agreement. But who? 653 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,240 How many? Mobs are going to be find it 654 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,160 palatable to go into bed with Seijin as well. 655 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,440 No, Yeah, well get. That enough to limit. 656 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,920 You're not quite going into bed, but like, let's say you did a 657 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,880 strategic placement at a premium, then Seijin, I now know 658 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,000 that they have to pay up. So you, you basically you kind 659 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,480 of just get a short term trade on it or, or you go into bed, 660 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,640 but you have to be open, open minded too. 661 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,400 Let's say if you can sort of have good line of sight on to 662 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,720 getting an uplift within sort of a relatively short amount of 663 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,520 time, that's why you would kind of do it. 664 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,800 I'm not necessarily thinking another mining house to to come 665 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,000 in and buy a stake in the business because that that gets 666 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,560 a bit difficult. It's not that like it's not that 667 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,080 bad if you, I mean if you think about it like if, if you don't 668 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,400 have to be operator of it, but you get the copper exposure like 669 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,320 heaps of people on copper exposure and they don't have to 670 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,560 do any work. And what else is Zagin like? 671 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,800 Because looking at that option C like where it would sell half it 672 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,600 said as Zagin and pretty much provide an IRU that obviously 673 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,200 shows how bullish Zagin are on copper lot. 674 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,080 They're they're obviously wanting the copper exposure. 675 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,360 They've obviously got it with Ivanhoe. 676 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,760 They produced over a million tonnes of copper last year. 677 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,800 They're one of the biggest copper producers on the planet. 678 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,160 Yeah. So it'd be wonderful. 679 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,360 And and now it's a link back to the old Freeland as well with 680 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,880 Turquoise Hill and everything. But do you think like Ivanhoe 681 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,800 would be interested in something like that with the Sage in 682 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,199 existing partnership? It did pop in my mind. 683 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,520 I'm just not as close with with Ivanhoe. 684 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,239 I know they've got a lot on their plate and like we've sort 685 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,960 of said with other miners focusing on getting what you've 686 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,840 got on your plate right, expanding, that is where you're 687 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,000 gonna see the most amount of value uplift. 688 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,040 And you know, especially considering KK now at 600,000 689 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,719 tonnes per annum. It's like, yeah, totally 690 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,360 different quality asset to this one, yeah. 691 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,040 Yeah. Brio's in the area you've got. 692 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,360 It's that they used to be called Poly metal, and they've just 693 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,239 left Russia and now they have. Yeah, Now every name's a solid 694 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,760 core. And then go and ham on 695 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,679 Kazakhstan. It's all right next door. 696 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,280 Yeah, maybe. It's nearby. 697 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,440 They want, yeah. It's got to be. 698 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,040 Yeah. So one of the other things to 699 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,040 raise again, which you mentioned, the sort of Western 700 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,280 versus Eastern, if you like CapEx build, that'll become a 701 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,840 part of the negotiation. And it's a, it's a good thing in 702 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,080 my opinion, that Zetan will build it because I think they 703 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,400 can build it cheaper, you know, and the, the number that we're 704 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,040 going to see in the PFS won't be the number that Siegen, I think 705 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,480 will believe that they can build the thing in. 706 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,640 So that's something to, to kind of bear in mind, I reckon. 707 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:24,840 So it's a, it's a kind of fine line. 708 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,880 Now for Xanadu, like you said at the beginning, it's, it's game 709 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,280 day. You know, if they've got a short 710 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,560 amount of time or hopefully a short amount of time where they 711 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,920 just really need to fire up and try and get maximum value for 712 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,000 their shareholders, They're only kept at 100 million. 713 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,000 Like I said, it's a, a project with AUS 600 million plus NPV 714 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,080 with, you know what you'd kind of call a modest copper price 715 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,360 assumption, a modest gold price assumption. 716 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,680 Obviously costs will have gone up a bit. 717 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,520 But then again, you do have siege in, in the in the driver's 718 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,000 seat and the process could come a bit, become a bit drawn out, 719 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,640 but it's a super interesting one. 720 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,000 I think we should stay, stay focused. 721 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,840 On yeah, I was trying to figure out if asymmetric, like like if, 722 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,960 if the nice, the more upside or downside. 723 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,880 And it's I can see from both ways because like the way you 724 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,920 describe the JV now, Zijin's kind of in control of that. 725 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,440 And whenever someone else is in control, like kind of, you know, 726 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,480 they're in control of the jet. I know there's like equal rights 727 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,720 on the budget and all that sort of stuff, but you always get a 728 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:25,680 bit nervous in those sort of JV arrangements without knowing the 729 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,120 full details of how the JV structured and everything like 730 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,000 that. On the budget side, you could 731 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,320 see like, you know, the big gamesmanship, you might even, 732 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,560 yeah, you might even not approve the budget and drag things out 733 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,680 and go slow ball and try get an outcome that way. 734 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,920 I'd love to see a royalty spun out like or a royalty retained 735 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:43,640 by Xanadu. I just. 736 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,880 US $16 billion of revenue over the base on the base case. 737 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,880 I know they're hard to negotiate, but like no, like we 738 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,840 talked about the potential of having a royalty with kind of 739 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,920 the fuel low transaction that never came to fruition. 740 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,000 But yeah, those those kind of like transactions that result in 741 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,320 like they would say Hosanna do sell their interest in the JV 742 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,040 but return to royalty like that's such an interesting 743 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,600 vehicle, you know, but it probably probably probably ever 744 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,440 happened. Yeah. 745 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:14,080 I mean, you could kind of call that 25% project ownership in a 746 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,600 way a quirky kind of. Yeah, Royalty. 747 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,960 Vehicle. Yeah, it's interesting, Yeah. 748 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,640 Yeah. I should be getting a bloody 749 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,880 royalty from live wire with this friggin hat on. 750 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,360 You should. You should chase enough for that 751 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,520 mate. No, they're offset by all the 752 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,000 bloody the negative comments on the Uranium 1. 753 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,360 Can we have the more polite lady back rather than this? 754 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,080 I did, I did. I'll get that on for you. 755 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,720 I didn't see that but I did see a comment saying where can I 756 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,640 pick up one of those snazzy live wire hats. 757 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,560 You did. You did drum up a bit of his 758 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,320 mate. Before I get on to the Paladin 759 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,320 fission things, Z Gin just reminds me what the wonder what 760 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,200 the hell is happening with AVZ if that's going to come to some 761 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,880 court sort of outcome soon. I did hear some juicy word on 762 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,960 the decline. I'm not sure if should be 763 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,360 disclosed, but things are things are in motion on a on a sort of 764 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,400 legal front. So I think there's some sort of 765 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,360 timeline on things now at least until the next decision is made. 766 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,360 You know that's what happens after that, but. 767 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:18,160 We haven't forgotten anyway, I Speaking of just something else, 768 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,040 hell of a vision deal, so that the not not much to report here, 769 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,200 but just it's just not going to plan. 770 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,520 It appears and I remember when we said like fuck, once the 771 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,480 votes over the line, like you're pretty much home, but not not 772 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,440 the case in this one. So and and it's for the fucking 773 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,200 weird, right? I wouldn't say weird. 774 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,720 It's like, yeah, it's hard to properly substantiate this, but 775 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:47,160 they're trying the artist. And so because the final court 776 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,360 here in Canada that's still ongoing expected to deliver a 777 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,200 decision in the coming weeks. But then yesterday the Canadian 778 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,000 Minister for Innovation, Science and Industry ordered a national 779 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,200 security review of the scheme of arrangement. 780 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,120 So and it's to do with China's CGN mining being a 11 and a bit 781 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,960 percent shareholder in vision. How does that make sense? 782 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,360 Because you normally object if it was the acquirer that had the 783 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:11,880 Chinese interest. Well, I think they're talking. 784 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,040 About what the pro forma is going to be, which is going to 785 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,040 be significantly less than 10. Such a stretch. 786 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,720 Yeah, yeah. And I think because it's and 787 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,400 they're going to be a, you know, a minority shareholder by the 788 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,200 end of it. So you're diluting the Chinese 789 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,000 ownership in the pro forma and yet you're objecting to that? 790 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,360 Yeah, but then and but the most interesting thing is that CGM 791 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,840 were voting against the deal, yes, because, because. 792 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,920 I don't know if you like, we peeled through the scheme Doc, 793 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,120 the information circular and someone else had bid for 794 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,120 fission, Maddie, which we our theory was it was CGN had said 795 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,440 for fission earlier this year. Yeah. 796 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,040 And it didn't, didn't, didn't go ahead. 797 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,520 So that's why they were objected to it. 798 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,920 Yeah, yeah. So they're they're the sort of 799 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,640 the cause of this, but they were voting against the deal anyway, 800 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,720 which makes it so just a. Quick one, Maddie, this Canadian 801 00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:59,440 minister from, you know, the the Office of Innovation, Science 802 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,400 and Industry ordering a national security review, is this 803 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,480 analogous to a Ferb review or is this a different thing to what 804 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,680 they call Ferb over there? I can't give an answer. 805 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,960 This is that Investment Canada Act. 806 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,680 Remember all that all? That is the investment. 807 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,280 Canada is the investment because I know that's what they 808 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,120 mentioned. Earlier, that was the stuff that 809 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,440 was all talked about like two months ago, yeah, ramped up and 810 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,280 that that. Was what was mentioned 811 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,400 specifically in the announcement subject to Canadian Investment 812 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,280 Act? Approval. 813 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,840 That's what this is, yeah. So there and there and because, 814 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,720 but and this is a part of it. This was the Curry wrote it in 815 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,200 the far article, but not sure if this is a part as well that 816 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:43,560 because you got Chinas CNNC also hold 25% ownership at a project 817 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,000 level of Langa Heinrich, which would be obviously part of the 818 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,440 pro forma on the paladin side. So like I don't know if they 819 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,880 look at it right. If you had that project 820 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,360 ownership, it's fun. It's out there and it's like a 821 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,680 last straw tempt on who's driving this. 822 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,960 If it's purely can it regulatory driving it or yeah, because 823 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,360 because the pro forma is going to be dual listed on TSX and TSX 824 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,360 and Chinese minority shareholder with the project, it just might 825 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,920 this might just be where Canada is heading like which we saw 826 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,960 about you know the previous news about you know foreign 827 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,880 investment in there. Like this might be the sort of 828 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,920 first little play it really. It's such a it's. 829 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,040 Like battening down the hatches a bit, but it's, it's friggin, 830 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,720 as I said, the fact that that votes got over the line just 831 00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:36,120 which was, and there was some scepticism on what shares were 832 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,440 used in to do that, like employee shares and everything, 833 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,840 because I just got over the line. 834 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,520 And now, now this, it's, it is blowing out. 835 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,640 And it'd be interesting to see if these regulators have the 836 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,560 final say on it. It's such a defensive 837 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,760 protectionist perspective that they're, they're kind of taking 838 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,800 as opposed to, you know, building a solid foundation for 839 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,120 all of your miners to operate and be successful, whether that 840 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,280 be through tax benefits and, and these sorts of things. 841 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,640 It's, it's so much more, you know, protectionist saying that 842 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,160 you can't do that, you can't buy this, you can't get involved 843 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:09,800 here. I think there could be a a 844 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,160 different way to kind of look at this without getting too 845 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,800 political to build a solid foundation for your miners to do 846 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,640 well as opposed to just saying, you know, because this could 847 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,160 damage exploration. Like we sort of discussed in the 848 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,720 past, if there's less exit opportunities, you know, have 849 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:28,880 less potentially less money going to exploration and these 850 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,560 sorts of things if they think half the potential buyers are no 851 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,000 longer allowed to buy the projects. 852 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,400 So. Any other thing I can think of 853 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,920 is if they're they're trying to minimise the Chinese ownership 854 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:46,920 so they can keep the uranium in North America in the future so 855 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,160 it's not obligated to go there, but how do you control that? 856 00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:52,520 You can still sign an off take with. 857 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:53,920 China, if you want it, would make if. 858 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,600 They're not a shareholder. It would make so much more sense 859 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,240 to have that, you know, the stuff being mined in your 860 00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:02,200 country, streamline the permitting processes, you know, 861 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:05,040 do all that more effectively. So there are, you know, a couple 862 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,720 more mines or bigger scale mines in your country as opposed to 863 00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:11,280 just slapping their hand when they're trying to buy something. 864 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,240 God, you, you can see our bloody weird. 865 00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:16,240 What you thinking is imagine running the companies and 866 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:19,640 liaising with these people. God, pick your eyes out. 867 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,160 Yeah, bloody out there. What? 868 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,360 You what? Essentially I've provided 869 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,720 nothing off you. It's like I just don't. 870 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,960 It's just weird. Yeah, the only way could make 871 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:37,560 sense to me is if the JV partner at Lang Heinrich who they have 872 00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:39,400 the off take. Right. 873 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,440 I don't know if they've got all of it. 874 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:41,880 I'm not. Sure. 875 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,960 Yeah. So what if they had the if only 876 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,360 if they had like to write a first refusal on any other 877 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,120 future production from Paladin and any operation that would 878 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,560 include that would include vision if they did. 879 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:55,440 That's the only hypothesis that could actually. 880 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,400 But I don't think that just seems like such a strategy too. 881 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,240 Yeah, it's like are they going to ban exporting uranium to 882 00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:02,560 China? Like that's it. 883 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:03,400 I don't know. Who knows. 884 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:04,640 Who knows what laws are going to come in. 885 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,920 Sounds like there's going to be that many independent fricking 886 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:12,280 countries and geographies in the world coming up soon possibly if 887 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,640 Russia detaching itself from Russia bloody this. 888 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,560 They don't want anything to do with China here. 889 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,080 It's it's very weird, but unfortunately they're all 890 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,640 connected in the vertical integration of all this stuff at 891 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,560 the moment of everything. So. 892 00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:27,240 Bring on the West Australian secession. 893 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,760 Yeah. Well, we're at it. 894 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,600 I'll be right. I'll sort it out in Parliament. 895 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,400 So right now, good work boys. Love you work. 896 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,480 Enjoy tomorrow's episode everyone. 897 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,520 She's a bit of a Corker, JD interviewing one of the old 898 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,920 school mining magnates of. Australia. 899 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:45,920 You know who else we love? Maddie. 900 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,720 Who do you love? JD Love MMSI love them too. 901 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,000 Like grounded cross boundary energy, Sandvik ground support 902 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,360 God it feels good saying that name. 903 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,080 How good is it? CRE insurance, Greenland and 904 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,720 equipment K Drill, MTS, Australian earthworks and 905 00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:06,240 haulage. And don't forget to use a Spark 906 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:10,400 Charter. Right Urdu Money Miners Urdu The 907 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,920 information contained in this episode of Money of Mine is of 908 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,000 general nature only and does not take into account the 909 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,600 objectives, financial situation or needs of any particular 910 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,640 person. Before making any investment 911 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,680 decision, you should consult with your financial advisor and 912 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,840 consider how appropriate the advice is to your objectives, 913 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,040 financial situation and needs.