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Right eye buddy miners. 
Welcome back to another week, 

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boys. 
You got a big bloody humdinger 

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of a segment deal in the big, 
big cap space to go through 

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00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,400
here. 
We do it it extrapolated 

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massively from the the initial 
kind of story, but we're talking

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mineral sands most of. 
In small caps. 

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Yeah, Most of the mineral sands 
players in that kind of niche 

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part of the mining world. 
And yeah, M&A has its big place 

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in this story as well and a bit 
of history as well that you you 

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love Maddie. 
I love Speaking of history on 

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the back of some visible gold 
intersections. 

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Today I'm going through visible 
gold history slash visible gold 

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porn. 
Really. 

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We've got a lot of bloody few 
pictures and there's one picture

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I cannot get ahold of, but I'll 
keep it for the money miners. 

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I think I know the one you're 
talking about. 

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Hmm, this was a photo from 
underground. 

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Hmm, yes, did did the rounds 
maybe like five years ago. 

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Was it maybe 90, 90? 
He was in the 90s, so. 

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That's a bit more than oh mate. 
Elusive from the photo anyway, 

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I'm a bit slow today boys. 
I just had a gut full of 

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Italian. 
Down at 6011. 

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Cheers sals. 
I'm a bit bloody parched 

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actually. 
Hold on, I've just got to get a 

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water. 
Hey Gerard, James, can you get 

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us some water mate? 
WA water boards? 

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I could get you a bloody drink 
of water if you want. 

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Direct to your hand. 
That's the relationship we have 

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with him mate. 
Great to have him back in the 

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back in the team finding water 
for the WA mining industry. 

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Buddy and matey can find water 
and get rid of the water if they

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want. 
But he's but the mines are 

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parched. 
He gets him, he gets some. 

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Water he's he's ending around 
Mount Franklin's like they're 

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going out of fashion up at site.
So mate, you want anything water

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bore drilling related? 
Gerard James at the team at WA 

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Water Bores. 
He'll go anywhere as well. 

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Anywhere he will go. 
Any I know where for a fact 

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he'll go anywhere. 
He'll get and he'll do anything 

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for you. 
Right lads? 

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Take it away. 
What's going on? 

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Riya, Tinto, Kenmar and Oryx 
Global. 

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Yeah, exactly. 
And we've been taught Maddie 

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that it's Ken Mayer, apparently.
So I know how grating it can be 

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listening to a podcast and 
somebody sort of pronounces 

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things and I'm sure. 
We do this Kenmare, Kenmar. 

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Kenmar Which? 
Is exactly how I pronounced it 

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to start with, but we've been 
taught it's a. 

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Kenmare Yeah, that's obvious, 
yeah. 

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It's a company from Dublin, 
they're based in Ireland and 

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listed on the LSE. 
So there was an eye-catching 

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takeover attempt on Friday that 
came out Maddie Orix Global. 

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This new sort of PE shop, which 
will give a bit of a one O 1 on 

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in a moment teamed up with 
Michael Carville, who's the 

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former managing director of Ken 
Mare resources. 

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It only left in September of 
last year and they came in to 

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try and take over his old 
business bidding at a 92% 

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premium. 
The the last close, so is. 

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That Cash, Cash, all cash, all 
cash, all cash. 

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There's a fair bit. 
To this one, all right, mate. 

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So. 
So who are The Who are the 

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parties involved? 
So we've got Ken Mare, like I 

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said, LSE listed, Dublin based. 
They've been around quite a 

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while. 
They were a oil and gas shell 

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back in the day, 70s and 80s. 
And then and then Michael came 

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along in 8687 and sort of took 
the company to what it is today.

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He's run the company for about 
four decades. 

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So the company itself operates 
the MoMA titanium mine in 

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Mozambique. 
This one came into production in

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2007, fourth largest producer in
the world of titanium 

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feedstocks. 
So we're talking ilmenite, 

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brutal zircon, all these kind of
products and that makes up a bit

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under 10% of global supply, one 
of these mega long lived assets 

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sort of 100 years they say at. 
100 and my life. 

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Crazy crazy. 
So I assume it. 

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Like there's probably more 
beyond that too. 

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If you've got 100 years, there's
probably some other shit you can

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take. 
Too, There's no point counting 

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beyond that kind of irrelevant 
at that point. 

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The the company after the share 
price bump is capped at £360 

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million and it's also in a bit 
of an investment phase right 

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now. 
So they've guided to $150 

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million to be spent this year 
alone. 

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That project that they're kind 
of in the midst of comes in at a

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total of $340 million. 
It's already kind of exceeded 

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initial plans, which has 
agitated a few shareholders out 

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there. 
So in the context of all of 

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this, you've got a mineral sands
market which has been fairly 

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weak since really the the back 
end of 2022, which was a 

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volatile time for the market. 
More company specific. 

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You've got political upheaval 
that we touched on late last 

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year following an election in 
Mozambique. 

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We saw miners like CSIRO as well
as S 32 were both impacted by 

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this and their operations in in 
country there. 

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And added again to be a bit more
specific on Ken Mare is a few 

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question marks around royalty 
agreements and these sorts of 

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things, but won't dive too much 
into that side note at the 

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moment. 
How about how about Michael 

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Carville? 
Yeah, so. 

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Obviously knows the company 
inside and out, ran it for the 

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best part of of four decades. 
And it wasn't that long ago that

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he kind of stepped down, stepped
down and became a consultant to 

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the business. 
He's in his mid 60s now, but 

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clearly is a big believer in the
business, has always been a big 

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believer. 
He was resistant to takeover 

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attempts throughout the the 20 
tens. 

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But yeah, he's come back for 
another part of the cherry and 

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you've got RX Global Partners, 
the group that he's teamed up 

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with. 
They're a relatively new private

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equity group. 
Some people might recall just 

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last week Elizabeth Gaines, 
obviously the the former boss at

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Fortescue Medals and Laura Tyler
who people might know from her 

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time at BHP as well as more 
recently at at Adriatic. 

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They joined the team in in 
varying kind of capacities just 

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last week. 
So the group itself is Abu Dhabi

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based, very limited info on 
them, don't really know how much

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capital they've got to deploy, 
whether that cash is kind of in 

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the accounts yet or what kind of
stage they're at. 

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There's no other sort of big 
deals that they've got their 

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name tied to as far as I could 
kind of tell. 

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And their mandate is pretty 
broad. 

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So they talk about looking at 
opportunities through the entire

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minerals value chain that can be
from mining itself to mining 

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tech related to services, power 
generation, a whole suite of 

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things. 
So there's, yeah, a bit more 

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questions than answers on the on
the front of Oryx Global, but 

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I'm sure in due course we'll 
find out a bit more about them. 

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So, so a bit of a bit of £5.30 
cash, but the market didn't 

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didn't go anywhere near that 
that share price. 

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So really, really interesting, 
right? 

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So like you, like you said, 
they're Trev, 5 lbs, thirty, all

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cash. 
Kenmark came out and rejected 

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it. 
When they told the market about 

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this, they said that added 
they'd given the consortium 

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access to limited due diligence 
info, which is kind of funny 

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because I don't think there'll 
be anyone in the world that 

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knows more about the business 
than Michael given his sort of 

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tenure there. 
But that'll perhaps help them a 

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little bit because of course, 
these UK and or more 

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specifically Irish takeover 
rules in in this case, those two

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are kind of similar in the fact 
that you guys will remember when

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we spoke about Anglo and BHP, 
you've got these kind of put up 

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or shut up rules, they call them
within a sort of month or so. 

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I think April 17th is the date 
where they have to announce a 

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firm intention to make another 
bid. 

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Or. 
Walk away. 

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But like you say, Trev, 93% 
premium, but the stock only 

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closed up 40%. 
So that tells you a fair bit 

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about the the market's belief on
the bid itself, on the sort of 

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solidness of the bid, you might 
say on whether they might come 

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back, what the kind of actual 
intentions are. 

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It's yeah, it's an interesting 
one, right? 

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00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,120
Totally. 
It it tells you that the bid 

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might have some uncertainty 
about it in the market. 

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Absolutely. 
I mean, a Oryx, like you said, 

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does, do we know how much money 
they really have? 

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Like there might be uncertainty 
about that. 

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The wording of the announcement 
itself was kind of interesting. 

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It said the most recent proposal
received was at a price of 

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£5.30. 
So there'd been previous 

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proposals in place, but they've 
chosen kind of now to disclose 

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to the market that they've 
rejected a, a proposal. 

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00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,880
So what's the, what's the 
rationale for that? 

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Is this like an attempt to try 
and kind of elicit a, a, a 

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competitive outcome with, with, 
with other parties? 

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Like what's, yeah, what's the, 
what's the motives? 

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Regardless of what that is, what
the share price is telling you 

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is that there's there's some 
doubt about the the realness 

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00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:19,360
that this will convert into a 
real offer. 

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00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,400
Yeah, it's, it's super, super 
juicy that the wording again 

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leaves a few more questions and 
answers, but we're we're getting

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closer to what's going on. 
And I think we should feel that 

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the money mine is in on a bit of
history. 

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We found out not that long ago. 
We're talking about 2024 here. 

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You got Rio Tinto as well as the
UA ES international resources 

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holding those. 
Both of those parties ran the 

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00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,240
numbers on Ken Med's sort of 
been reported. 

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00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,720
So money miners, right might 
remember IRH, that group, that 

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really generically named group, 
they came in with a last minute 

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00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,640
bid to buy 51 per stake in 
Zambia's Mopani copper mines. 

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00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,520
So it's some famous assets and 
they got very close to actually 

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00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:03,360
picking up Con Cola also in 
Zambia off Vedanta, some pretty 

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00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,200
well known copper operations. 
That one didn't pan out. 

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00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,520
And we'll talk a bit more to the
the Rio Tinto angle in a moment.

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00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,480
But this all came from an 
activist investor, the big 

186
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,960
london-based investor, Jo 
Hambro. 

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00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,760
They ran a bit of an activist 
campaign early last year. 

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00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,640
They got in touch with the 
company. 

189
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,960
They put forward obviously a few
suggestions, one of them kind of

190
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,160
being that perhaps more value 
would be realized if this were 

191
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:34,320
to be merged into a bigger group
and didn't have that solo asset 

192
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,360
single, you know African 
jurisdiction kind of rich risk 

193
00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:39,960
associated to it. 
And you know, I think at the end

194
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,520
of the day, they were a bit 
frustrated having seen their 

195
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,800
shareholding go up through 2122 
and then write it back down. 

196
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,160
They wanted to see a bit more 
action on that that price front.

197
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,160
Is Ji related to heavy hambra? 
Yes. 

198
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:54,600
What? 
What brothers or some or? 

199
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,800
I think the firm goes back 
longer and my understanding is 

200
00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,680
Evie is one of the children. 
Yeah, right. 

201
00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:06,760
Yeah, go, Evie. 
Yeah, it's a, it's a kind of 

202
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,840
important money manager and 
family in in London there 

203
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:10,800
they're. 
Right. 

204
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:12,880
Come on the show whenever you 
want, Ham Bros. 

205
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,760
Get back in touch. 
So it was a bit more history, 

206
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:17,880
Maddie. 
This is what I was referring to 

207
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,080
earlier that I wanted to dig 
into. 

208
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,440
And this is the the 20 tens. 
And I've just found it super 

209
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,160
fascinating. 
And I think it gives more 

210
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,840
context to the the story that 
we're talking about here. 

211
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,480
So the early twenty 10s Kenmare 
is just flying. 

212
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,120
This is on the back of the China
boom. 

213
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,320
Everyone wants these titanium 
feedstocks. 

214
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,920
Global GDP is moving upwards, 
specifically driven by that 

215
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,800
China boom. 
Dow Chemical were apparently 

216
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,040
circling the company, as were 
Rio Tinto back then, and they 

217
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,400
reportedly considered a £2.4 
billion bid just be enormous, 

218
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,040
but that didn't actually 
eventuate. 

219
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,560
It's got to be said that Ken 
Mayer's Max valuation only 

220
00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:59,800
peaked at £1.2 billion, but 
that's still pretty lofty. 

221
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,920
And then unfortunately, as China
kind of cooled, you get to the 

222
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,680
point in 2014 where the sting 
has really come out. 

223
00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:10,920
The stock, they've taken up a 
massive CapEx program to expand 

224
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,200
production. 
They've debt funded that, which 

225
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,920
has put them in a world of pain.
Aloka comes in and bids €500 

226
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,920
million for the stock, but over 
the next 18 months, they 

227
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,000
continue to revise that down as 
conditions continue to fall and 

228
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,800
the ability for the company to 
service its debt looks more and 

229
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,680
more precarious. 
So at the end of the day, in 

230
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:36,360
about December 2015, about when 
commodity markets are reaching 

231
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,320
an absolute low, Aloka just 
walks away and they kind of call

232
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,800
it and Kenmer OPS with the route
of a capital raise. 

233
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,560
And this capital raise is done 
at a hugely dilutive price. 

234
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,760
There's a 90% dilution on all 
the previous shareholders. 

235
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,720
So complete rapid 
recapitalization of the 

236
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,600
business. 
The previous equity investors 

237
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,680
get wiped out. 
The Armani monarchy, the 

238
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,680
Sultanate of Oman comes in and 
takes a 30% stake in the 

239
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,800
business. 
And they over the last 10 years 

240
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,000
have bit by bit. 
It took them a while, but 

241
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,640
they've been selling into 
buybacks and other capital 

242
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,800
returns programs from from the 
company. 

243
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,560
And the final little twist here 
that I think is particularly 

244
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:22,600
relevant to the the takeover is 
that Ken Mayer signed up 

245
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,760
Rothschilds to be on defence for
them. 

246
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,520
And subsequent to that, about 
four years ago now, you've got 

247
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,440
the lead banker who ran defence 
for them, joined Ken Mayer as 

248
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,720
the chairman. 
Then you've got the long time 

249
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,120
managing director step back from
the company and he's the one 

250
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:42,320
who's now come and try to buy 
it. 

251
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,480
So there's been a bit of role 
reversal between two guys who 

252
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,720
were formerly on the same side 
and now one's playing off 

253
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,840
against the other, trying to 
extract a bit more value. 

254
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,560
Yeah, right. 
Every time you bloody. 

255
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,680
Here's another twist for you. 
When you mentioned Rothschilds, 

256
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,280
it just gets me. 
I'll just think of Sean Russo 

257
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,800
'cause that's his old employer. 
You think of hedging, you think 

258
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,000
of hedging risk, you think of 
CRE insurance. 

259
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,840
That's you've sent me down 
another 7° of separation J. 

260
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,280
It's the logical connection. 
Didn't you think of that? 

261
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,440
Didn't you? 
Didn't CRE insurance just pop in

262
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,200
the air there? 
I couldn't get CRE out of my 

263
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,400
head the whole time. 
I could imagine anyone listening

264
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,840
in Orange right now be already 
thinking of them 'cause they 

265
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,880
would have probably had a coffee
next door to them at their 

266
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,000
Orange office. 
You could say the same about 

267
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,320
Perth, Brisbane and Sydney as 
well mate. 

268
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,520
Where's next? 
Mining in Mozambique. 

269
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,960
They are phenomenal at operating
interdictions like that. 

270
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,080
Maddie, have you got any spare 
office space in Mozambique? 

271
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,520
I reckon we've got a tenant CRE 
insurance ready to tackle 

272
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,760
Mozambique. 
I think that'd be perfect over. 

273
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,400
There in the meantime, they'll 
do it from Perth. 

274
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,640
They will, they will. 
They'll go over there if you 

275
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,320
need them. 
Too, But there's there's a fair 

276
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,200
bit of business interruption 
that can sometimes happen from 

277
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,640
time to time, including in the 
story I'm about to tell, and CRE

278
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,240
Insurance can help help help in 
those situations with the 

279
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,440
insurance required. 
Yep, just give them a call 

280
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,200
regarding what Trav is about to 
tell you. 

281
00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,440
Right, Take it away. 
What is take? 

282
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:01,880
Just take it away. 
What? 

283
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,120
One of one of the One of the? 
Yeah, like questions we're 

284
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,920
trying to answer in in, in going
into this story is it's maybe 

285
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,480
the revelation of this, this, 
this bid from Marks or whatever 

286
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:12,840
is it. 
Is it a bit of an attempt to try

287
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,720
and get Rio to come to the party
and and pay up for for for Ken 

288
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,400
Mayer at A at a pretty elevated 
price? 

289
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,720
Bit of gamesmanship. 
Chunky premium, yadda, yadda, 

290
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,800
yadda. 
They've had, you know, interest 

291
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,920
dating, dating all the way back.
And, and so I, I just, I was 

292
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,800
kind of, I've got down a bit of 
a rabbit hole to, to really look

293
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,320
at Rio Tintos like history and 
mineral sands in this part of 

294
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,360
the, in Africa specifically. 
And I came away with some big 

295
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,600
kind of takeaways as they relate
to where they're at right now 

296
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,680
with their infrastructure and 
their operations in South 

297
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,120
Africa. 
Their, their mineral sands 

298
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,120
history in the African continent
is so interesting. 

299
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,760
If we, if we take a good look, 
we can try to have a guesstimate

300
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,400
about, you know, whether they're
going to pop up and, and, and 

301
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,160
bid for, for Ken Mare, but also 
like, are they going to, are 

302
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,320
they going to bid for ASX listed
sovereign metals, for example? 

303
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,600
And I'll, I'll get to that. 
So rethink those major mineral 

304
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,840
sands operations in South 
Africa. 

305
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,240
This is the, the Richards Bay 
Mineral sands operations, but 

306
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,480
they also have operations in, in
Madagascar near Fort Dauphin. 

307
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,480
They've got a growth project in 
Mozambique themself, but that's 

308
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:16,880
got complications I'll talk 
about soon. 

309
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,480
Plus they own 19.9% stake in 
sovereign metals in Malawi, 

310
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,880
which I'll get to. 
Richard's Bay Minerals. 

311
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,080
It's a complicated asset for 
Rio. 

312
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,720
They, they're basically sold 
like Rio's sold, I think all of 

313
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,280
their other assets out of Rio 
Dinto except for Richard's Bay 

314
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,280
Minerals. 
But they've kept this and that's

315
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,480
as South Africa has become an 
increasingly challenging 

316
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,240
jurisdiction to to invest in, 
but they've kept rich as Bay 

317
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,080
Minerals and that's because it's
a strategic asset for them. 

318
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,240
It's, it's one of the largest 
sources of, of titanium 

319
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,720
feedstock and, and zircon on a 
globally and real. 

320
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,120
They've got, you know, vertical 
integration in this market. 

321
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,640
They've got, yeah, they've got, 
they've got a smelter at 

322
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,960
Richards Bay as well, which 
helps produce an Illmaris slag. 

323
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,160
And they've also got some 
downstream stuff going on on in 

324
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,800
Quebec. 
It, it and and collectively all,

325
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,040
all of these sort of assets 
position Rio with like a 14% 

326
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,760
market share in that titanium 
feedstocks kind of market, which

327
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,920
which is an an important market 
share if in an industry where 

328
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,440
you kind of want to have some 
volume and pricing power because

329
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,000
prices are often times contract 
based and opaque. 

330
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,040
So when, when JD, when you said 
Ken Meyer was the 4th biggest 

331
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,640
producer in the world? 
Is Rio's sovereign in the top 

332
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,160
three items? 
Sovereign's not a sovereign 

333
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:31,040
stock. 
There yet? 

334
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,440
You've got, you've got Iluka, 
you've got Tronox as well. 

335
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,480
Rio being the the biggest. 
Yeah, yeah. 

336
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:45,680
These guys at 4th, I want to say
Aramet do a bit as well. 

337
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,280
And Sierra Rizal. 
Leon Oil. 

338
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,480
Come Sierra Rizal. 
I. 

339
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,440
Haven't forgotten where it is. 
Yeah. 

340
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,000
And then you and then you've got
about 35% of the market coming 

341
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,240
out of China. 
Yeah. 

342
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,920
And a lot of that is a byproduct
from iron ore mining. 

343
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,520
What? 
What's where's Sovereign going 

344
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,240
to sit once they do start? 
Once they eat 9 plate I. 

345
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,160
Don't quote me on that. 
Yeah. 

346
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,800
Yeah, it's a, it's a very big 
asset, but yeah, I'll. 

347
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,880
Yeah, there's a bit of framing 
on what size it comes out at and

348
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,160
and how we kind of go. 
I think, I think we should put 

349
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,800
in in perspective the, the size 
of this kind of market and think

350
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,200
about what, what these earnings 
kind of mean for for Rio. 

351
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,119
Make Rio. 
Rio is like a funny company, 

352
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,960
right? 
They've got like exposure to so 

353
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,960
many different commodities, but 
like really when you look at 

354
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,360
their earnings and what actually
moves the dial, it's like 

355
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:36,040
Pilbara iron ore and and that's 
it. 

356
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,960
And I say that kind of like 
tongue in cheek, but it's, if 

357
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,120
you just like compare the EBITDA
from their entire what they call

358
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:48,640
this, this this kind of business
line, they call it titanium and 

359
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,760
iron. 
And that is in 2024 a mere 

360
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,080
$609,000,000 in EBITDA. 
Compare that to Pilbara iron 

361
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,000
ore, $16.5 billion. 
So I mean, it was just we're 

362
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,680
just like in a whole another 
ballpark, but. 

363
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,280
Then you got the north of 
Canadian iron ore as well. 

364
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,440
Yeah, yeah. 
But even that's tiny in here. 

365
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,360
Like that's only 700? 
Million, but just iron, iron ore

366
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:11,680
for them. 
Well, you think Rio? 

367
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,800
Rio's a smaller company than 
BHP, but they produce more iron 

368
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,320
ore. 
So that shows how leverage they 

369
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,920
are to iron ore. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

370
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,200
On the on the Richard's Bay 
front, you, you gave a bit of 

371
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,640
colour on them. 
The there was a, a pretty 

372
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,160
important part of the history 
sort of in, in 2021, there was a

373
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,000
pretty sort of violent event 
that happened. 

374
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,200
This is kind of following after 
Rio Tinto had already tried to 

375
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,960
make a, a partial kind of exit 
from South Africa. 

376
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,160
They were, they were holding 
onto Richard's Bay. 

377
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,040
But this would have done a bit 
to their thinking. 

378
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,440
Hey, right. 
It's, it's, it's, it's horrible 

379
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,640
this part of history. 
Look at, you know, an executive 

380
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,760
was murdered. 
So the context, which is Bay 

381
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,880
Minerals operates in in an area 
of, of South Africa historically

382
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,840
occupied by Axillo speaking 
communities. 

383
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,880
There's there's several 
different clans with the with 

384
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,880
the influence over the area and 
and they've got kind of 

385
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,800
contested claims themselves. 
In 2018 to 2019, there were 

386
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,760
violent protests at Richard's 
Bay Minerals Basic demonstrators

387
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,040
were blocking roads, setting 
vehicles on fire, damaging 

388
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,720
property. 
This set of protests led to a 

389
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,240
temporary mine shutdown mid 
2018. 

390
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,360
The cause was put down to local 
communities demanding more and 

391
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:27,840
preferential jobs and also just 
rival rival clans forward over 

392
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,400
contracts for transport security
supply services. 

393
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,640
When RBM resumed operations 
after some government 

394
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,520
intervention like in in due 
course, but but then that unrest

395
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,080
did set the stage for for future
disruptions. 

396
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:45,440
In 2021, more protests, so arson
attacks and disputes over jobs. 

397
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,360
Nico Swart was the general 
manager of Richards Bay 

398
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:51,680
Minerals, responsible for 
security operations and he'd 

399
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,120
been involved in in managing 
tensions with some local 

400
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,920
communities. 
On the 24th of May that year, he

401
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,480
was on his way to work when his 
car was ambushed by gunmen. 

402
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,040
He was shot at least 27 times in
just an utterly horrible event 

403
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,600
in the history of RBM and Rio 
Tinto. 

404
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,880
So what? 
What kind of happens subsequent 

405
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:15,200
to to that awful, awful murder? 
So Rio, Rio, they suspend the 

406
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:21,680
operations, they, they also put 
the development of Zulti S on 

407
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,360
ice where it still remains on 
ice today. 

408
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,000
And Zulti S is an incredibly 
important part for for Richard's

409
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,800
Bay Minerals because when when 
this development was approved in

410
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,920
2019, there was, you know, 
nearly 500 million U.S. dollars 

411
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,520
that was agreed to be invested, 
which would effectively sustain 

412
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,280
RB Ms. current capacity at that 
point in time and extend it's my

413
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,960
life. 
So as RBM sort of sits today, 

414
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,720
they are yeah, producing out of 
out of four mines in the Zolti N

415
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,400
lease area only. 
And plus there's a giant kind of

416
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,200
mineral separation plant and a 
smelting facility as well that 

417
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,680
constitutes the the 
infrastructure. 

418
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,720
So Zolti S underpins Rio's 
substantial kind of 

419
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,280
infrastructure already to, to 
keep things you know, like like 

420
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,240
at full capacity or what not, 
but it's, it's been on ice for 

421
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,080
four years and that sets the 
same for for Rio's potential M&A

422
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,960
appetite today. 
I think because they, they, you 

423
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,440
know, they have the, the 
infrastructure which requires 

424
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,280
kind of concentrate in order to,
to be fully, fully utilized to, 

425
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,400
if you think of their mineral 
separation plant that they've 

426
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,160
got, that's being fed from these
four mines. 

427
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,800
And each of those mines has its 
own kind of concentrate plant. 

428
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,520
So there's 35,000,000 tonnes of 
ore from those mines generates 

429
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,720
1.2 million tonnes of heavy 
minerals concentrate and that 

430
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,200
feeds the mineral separation 
plant. 

431
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,640
That mineral separation plant, 
you know, separates into 

432
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,600
ilmenite, zircon and rutile. 
And the ilmenite, which is rich 

433
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,920
in titanium is sent to the 
smelter there for further 

434
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,720
processing into a titanium slag 
and also pig iron. 

435
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,760
Our our word on the decline is 
that Richards Bay's 

436
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,120
infrastructure is is being 
constrained by its inputs. 

437
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,280
All right, let's kind of run 
through those those inputs. 

438
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,280
There's a couple big ones that 
come to mind, right? 

439
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,840
It's twofold. 
First is concentrate supplies. 

440
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,760
They can't get enough 
concentrate at the moment to 

441
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,720
keep the the minerals at the MSP
and smelter fully utilised. 

442
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,800
And the second one is is power 
issues like which is by 

443
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,040
minerals. 
They face frequent kind of load 

444
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,600
shedding issues. 
It's connected to the state 

445
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,160
owned power utility S Com, which
has had a litany of issues over 

446
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,920
over recent history and the 
smelting phase here is really 

447
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,600
energy intensive. 
These are electric arc furnaces,

448
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,800
which require stable and A and a
really high amount of power. 

449
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,560
So you can imagine the power 
side of things has undermined, 

450
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,160
you know, the the the 
competitive positioning of the 

451
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,080
product production you're 
actually making and reagent is 

452
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,720
pretty concerned about that. 
Their current predicament. 

453
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,320
They they came to get more 
concentrate and frankly they've 

454
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,920
got limited options here as 
well. 

455
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,360
Yeah, it's really interesting. 
It looked like South Africa last

456
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:56,080
year was kind of turning a bit 
of a corner on the on the power 

457
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,520
front. 
S commerce troubled a lot of 

458
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,640
downstream production in in 
country for years and years and 

459
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,000
years and years far, far too 
long. 

460
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,320
And it looked like they were 
kind of turning a coin actually 

461
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:07,840
up until this year when we were 
there. 

462
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,800
And then they had these yeah, 
power outages again, which is a 

463
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,880
bit sort of disappointing to 
see. 

464
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,520
But you know, that's going to 
kind of run its course and 

465
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,520
hopefully it turns to the 
positive. 

466
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,200
Let's focus. 
On a few Pbas as well of power 

467
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,840
purchase agreements with, you 
know, separate, independent so. 

468
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,200
They don't have to rely on on 
SCOM. 

469
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,960
Let's focus on the the 
concentrate side of things 

470
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,960
because there there are a few 
options on the table. 

471
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,600
And you know, in time was kind 
of circle back to to Ken Mare, 

472
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,400
but they can look at a few 
different projects around the 

473
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,240
world as well as what they've 
got in their their own growth 

474
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,280
projects. 
I think I think their first 

475
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,800
choice would be develop Zalty 
South. 

476
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,920
This is complicated given the 
the historical tensions and 

477
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,680
violence, but it appears Rio is 
is gearing up to pull the 

478
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,800
trigger on, on this development.
You know, absent kind of any, 

479
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,720
any more tensions or escalations
or violence or property damage 

480
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,600
etcetera. 
We, we, we think that they have 

481
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,640
signalled a decision around mid,
mid year this year to, to, to 

482
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:10,880
develop Zalty S second choice or
potential choice is Mozambique 

483
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,960
And not, not that not can can, 
can, can be like you talked 

484
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,200
about. 
But remember I said Rio Tinto 

485
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,120
had a growth project of their 
own in Mozambique. 

486
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,520
It's called a Tumba and a pilot 
plant was even built there in 

487
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,320
2020. 
I, I, I don't get a good feeling

488
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,240
about its prospects to fit in 
the mix here because there isn't

489
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,800
much information since and the 
JV partner Savannah, they pulled

490
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,120
out of the JV in 2021, which let
Rio take the lot for a pretty 

491
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,160
small sum of money. 
What what we hear is this 

492
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,680
project Matamba is kind of 
compromised by the very large 

493
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,680
community displacement that 
would be required to to mine 

494
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,120
there. 
So yeah, put a, put a, put a 

495
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:47,800
question mark slash lines with 
that one. 

496
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,880
And then we go to Madagascar, 
don't we? 

497
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,880
Not the movie. 
Their choice. 

498
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,560
Yeah. 
So Rio actually has a mineral 

499
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,760
sands operation in in Madagascar
already. 

500
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,520
And best I could tell operations
late life grades are declining. 

501
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,520
You know, my, my life will 
extend, but it's sort of five to

502
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,520
10 years my life remaining at 
the moment that there's already 

503
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,800
an MSP at that operation. 
And best I can tell some of some

504
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,600
of the, the ilmenite that comes 
from the MSP does in fact get 

505
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,360
shipped to this, this Rio's 
smelter in, in South Africa 

506
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:23,720
already to produce the titanium 
slag. 

507
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,440
But also in in Madagascar is a 
substantial mineral sands 

508
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,960
development project which used 
to be owned by Base Resources. 

509
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,720
Now Energy Fuels, I think they 
call it the Toliara approach. 

510
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,400
Toliara, yeah. 
And that sounds all systems go. 

511
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,280
So in the next few years, you 
know, that'll, you know, 

512
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,080
hopefully be a be a fully 
operating mine. 

513
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,480
But the fact Energy Fuels 
acquired Base Resources and not 

514
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,800
Rio Dinto acquiring base 
Resources sort of begs the 

515
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,240
question about Rio's long term 
view of remaining operating in 

516
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,400
that country in that industry 
itself, I think. 

517
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,880
And then sovereign metals kind 
of is worth worth raising in 

518
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,160
this in in this discussion you 
got to Katia. 

519
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,600
Absolutely mate. 
I, I think I, I pronounce it 

520
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,200
Kaija but I'm probably saying 
that wrong. 

521
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,920
But yes, this, this, this one 
will pique the interest of the 

522
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,240
ASX punters. 
Kaija is, it's one of those 

523
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,520
exciting rutile development 
projects. 

524
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,600
It's in Malawi. 
It's it's owned by ASX listed 

525
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,200
sovereign metals. 
Rio Tinto actually owns a 19.9% 

526
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,840
interest in sovereign metals 
already from a a strategic 

527
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,960
agreement struck between the two
companies in 2023. 

528
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,920
Part of that agreement, Rio has 
the exclusive right to, to take 

529
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,000
operatorship. 
And if they do that, then they 

530
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,800
maintain 40% rights to the 
product that comes out of Kasia.

531
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,000
And yeah, but there's a, there's
a few parts to, to Kasia itself.

532
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,680
It's, it's enormous. 
It's the largest natural route. 

533
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,880
Our project globally, the the 
PFS says it will produce 2 

534
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,200
products, one natural rutile and
the other one is a graphite 

535
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,360
product. 
And whenever, whenever we think 

536
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:00,400
graphite, I always just get sick
feeling in my stomach. 

537
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,600
But yeah, that's just because of
the historic, historic stuff 

538
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,120
around graphite. 
Yeah, it's been a tough Rd. for 

539
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:12,800
some Aussie listed graphite 
producers in that sort of part 

540
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,720
of the world, hasn't it? 
Has. 

541
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,480
Anyone done graphite good or 
been successful at it? 

542
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,560
China natural graphite. 
Not yet. 

543
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,280
Tough market. 
Just we're we're one day closer.

544
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,680
One day closer, yeah, one day 
closer. 

545
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,240
If you, if you look at the the 
PFS of it like it's, it's in 

546
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,440
Malawi, right And that's 
landlocked. 

547
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,320
So to get the product to one of 
the ports, you know, you're 

548
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,200
paying substantial kind of 
logistics costs here about 100 

549
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,240
bucks per tonne is required to 
to get it to a a port. 

550
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,560
But that's OK because the two 
products they want to sell sell 

551
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,720
for a fair bit more than that. 
But you've got a really long my 

552
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,480
life because it's a big resource
that the PFS has an initial my 

553
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,360
life for 25 years and an IRR of 
27%. 

554
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,480
So that's certainly in in, you 
know, in the in the ballpark of 

555
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,080
an asset that is is fit for a 
major like Rio Tinto. 

556
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,200
When you've got the healthy IRR 
long my life and, you know, in 

557
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,080
the in the in rutile, which they
care about. 

558
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,520
While graphite has been a 
disaster fair for everyone that 

559
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,120
has kind of tried to make it 
work in the West. 

560
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,040
Hopefully the project could buck
that trend. 

561
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:20,160
Both brutal and graphite make up
roughly half of the revenue each

562
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,280
in there in the optimised PFS 
economics. 

563
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,880
I, I, I think, I think the KJ 
is, is, is interesting, but it 

564
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,880
isn't, isn't cheap. 
There's a $560 million market 

565
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,320
cap and the stock's near all 
time highs. 

566
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,800
But they're going to have to 
kick a few goals on that 

567
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,240
graphite product. 
They're risking too. 

568
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,160
They've been putting out, you 
know, more and more information 

569
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,400
as it relates to this, and I've 
listened to Jacob Starsam at at 

570
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,840
reginto talk about, you know, 
the potential of entering the 

571
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,400
graphite market. 
And he said, where's the effect 

572
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,280
of, you know, we're already in 
their gene commodities, like it 

573
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,760
doesn't bother us if we're in, 
if we get into one or two more. 

574
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,520
So they're open minded about 
that referencing, you know, 

575
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,480
graphite specifically. 
And I think just given the 

576
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,000
complexities of of the market, 
it's, it's worth a bit more 

577
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,760
scrutiny as well. 
When we just look at the study 

578
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,440
numbers of Keja, because 
Sovereigns PFS they use a 

579
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:17,800
graphite price of roughly US 
$1300 per tonne and they defend 

580
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,880
that as conservative versus fast
markets long term forecast of US

581
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,520
1846 per tonne. 
But just look at the recent 

582
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,880
prices, you can see the price of
flake graphite fines kind of 

583
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,360
nosedives below $400.00 per 
tonne. 

584
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,760
And it's the fines which is 
actually the big part of the 

585
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,280
market, the course. 
The course flake is a much, much

586
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,680
smaller part of the market even 
though you get a higher price 

587
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,360
for it. 
It's the fines that is used in 

588
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,440
battery anodes. 
Yeah, it's a, it's a super 

589
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,360
interesting market. 
And also it stands out that they

590
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,240
don't really push The xx China 
like that's the big sire route 

591
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,680
that they've gone down, got that
DOADOD funding package sending 

592
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,640
stuff to America that pointing 
to that being the only way that 

593
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,240
they can survive in this market 
and that they're going to get a 

594
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,680
differentiated price due to the 
the manipulation that China has 

595
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,400
done. 
So it's a, it's a, it's a 

596
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,080
strategy that stands out in its 
approach in my eyes. 

597
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,880
Well, you might get 19.9% more 
now, less than the 20% China 

598
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,320
tariff. 
Yeah, and and maybe and now 

599
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,040
Rio's like gobbled up Arcadium 
then you know that there's 

600
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,240
probably going to be internally 
more efforts on the fully fully 

601
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,040
integrated and downstream kind 
of battery stuff. 

602
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,760
And this can kind of potentially
feed it. 

603
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,920
But yeah, on on on my scan, you 
know, you're looking at roughly 

604
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:47,120
40% of cages products sort of 
meets the the finds Micron cut 

605
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,800
off or their thereabouts, which 
which has me just wondering if 

606
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,720
if their assumption on on price 
is, is is reasonable and it's a 

607
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,400
pretty meaningful part of the 
revenue, right. 

608
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,760
So when you're talking about the
yeah, yeah, 50% of revenue 

609
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,800
versus versus the retail itself,
all I have to say if Rio can get

610
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,240
comfortable on the on the 
graphite part, which is where, 

611
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,440
you know, the majority of the 
question marks are going to be, 

612
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,640
then then sovereign looks 
attractive. 

613
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,920
Absolutely. 
And it's, I mean, it's hard to 

614
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,400
distinguish with the, the share 
price rise, how much is that 

615
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,440
like other investors getting 
comfortable with the fact that 

616
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,880
Rio Tinto is now there or 
rewarding the company as they 

617
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,680
kind of get closer to, to making
a call. 

618
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,840
But at this point in time, it's 
been a, it's been a really good 

619
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,080
last year or 18 months for the 
company on that front as they 

620
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,080
continue to release all that 
network that you kind of speak 

621
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,360
to there, right? 
Yeah, yeah. 

622
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,840
And yeah. 
So it is interesting, like I 

623
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,040
think after doing all that deep 
dive on, on, on Rio Tinto and 

624
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,240
their history in, in mineral 
sands, like they've got, they've

625
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,480
got deal appetite. 
They're, you know, interested 

626
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,880
in, in 3rd party sources of, of 
concentrate. 

627
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,160
I mean, there are going to be 
logistics challenges to actually

628
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,880
get a concentrate, but maybe you
can get at least the almanide to

629
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,120
help feed the smelter from, from
somewhere else. 

630
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,560
And yeah, so there's a there's a
bunch of a bunch of potential 

631
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,760
things on the line there. 
The one thing to just watch is 

632
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,560
around around mid this year if 
they pull the trigger on on 

633
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,880
salty South or not. 
Yeah, right. 

634
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,600
What do you mean? 
Speaking of Aussie based mineral

635
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,080
sands, Petrotherm that's getting
talked about, that's actually a 

636
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,040
rutile in South Australia. 
What's bloody what's the Goss on

637
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:28,480
that? 
It's. 

638
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,360
Been very volatile, hasn't it? 
It came off a lot since it's a 

639
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:33,600
yeah. 
Right. 

640
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,000
It just did, just did a rise I 
think, Yeah. 

641
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,800
So come off a bit there, but 
that's like Aussie based seems 

642
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,280
to be the one behind sovereign 
on the listed ones in Australia.

643
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,920
I mean, you, you look at Iluka 
and their their working capital 

644
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,480
build or their inventories, 
whatever way you want to slice 

645
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,040
and dice it. 
But they call it a billion 

646
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,280
dollars that they've now got in 
inventory. 

647
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,120
In inventory. 
Wow, they're kept at less than 

648
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,320
two billion. 
So inventory has swelled 

649
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,560
massively since 2022. 
It's a, it's a, yeah, a super 

650
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,720
interesting, somewhat opaque 
market. 

651
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,760
And to round it back to, to Ken 
Meier, you've got a pretty 

652
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,600
limited number of potential 
buyers. 

653
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,040
So obviously we went into detail
on Rio Tinto's interest and 

654
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,880
capacity to to have a look and 
and take them out. 

655
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,720
I don't think they will. 
It's my gut feel, by the way. 

656
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,560
Yeah. 
And then you've got Tronox, who 

657
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,960
admittedly we went far less deep
on, but the gut read was that 

658
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,320
this wouldn't be the right 
opportunity for them. 

659
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,920
So there's not an awful lot of 
buyers for Kenmare if they're 

660
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,440
thinking someone's going to come
in over the top. 

661
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,880
But going back to Africa, Yep, 
they've yeah, had a go at that 

662
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,400
in the past. 
And I think they'll stay on 

663
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,400
Aussie shores for now. 
So it's like the whole with this

664
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,800
increased activity on the back 
of the Sierra rutile battle, 

665
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,440
mind you, but even like take 
away like considering the 

666
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,160
inventory you said that I look 
has got is like the rutile, like

667
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,080
the global titanium market. 
Is it is it peak? 

668
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,760
Is there a structural supply 
deficit coming up? 

669
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,159
Like what's the market feel? 
What's the vibe of it is? 

670
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:12,639
Is there differing views of it 
or? 

671
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,639
Every market's got a structural 
supply deficit coming, Betty. 

672
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:16,760
Yeah. 
They've got one of those charts 

673
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,360
where supply goes down like that
and and demand goes up. 

674
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:25,600
I I think of the market as kind 
of roughly following global GDP,

675
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,239
but you've got those opaque 
factors, you've got those by 

676
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,880
product elements that play a 
play a role in it. 

677
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,440
A lot of it for a while was sort
of tied in with this Chinese 

678
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,880
property boom. 
Obviously that's cooled down and

679
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,920
you know it's all happened at a 
time that a lot of the producers

680
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,600
were expanding supplies. 
So that all culminated in a 

681
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,560
number of additional supply and 
decrease in demand factors 

682
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,960
hitting at the same time, which 
was not good for the market 

683
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,400
outlook. 
So it is come off pretty 

684
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,520
substantially since 2022. 
The conflict in Ukraine and 

685
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,680
Russia impacted markets as well.
But it's, it's kind of cagey 

686
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:04,840
right now. 
And I think that's a bit 

687
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,400
reflective of kind of how we 
think of like iron ore and these

688
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,280
sorts of things as well, maybe 
not so much on the supply side, 

689
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,160
but just like the world's growth
is looking a bit more shaky at 

690
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,480
the moment. 
So it's kind of 1 lens to think 

691
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,440
of it as. 
Yeah, what What gives the what's

692
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,920
the most leverage to titanium? 
Like what's the biggest factor 

693
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,440
in increasing demand for 
titanium globally? 

694
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,440
Increasing demand, increasing 
the standard of living across 

695
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,240
the world. 
Paint. 

696
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,320
Paint it. 
Paint. 

697
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:33,160
How many? 
How many? 

698
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,720
How many coats of Dulux do you 
want on you? 

699
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,240
Yeah. 
And how rapidly do you, you 

700
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,960
know, repaint your stuff? 
10% of the market is of the 

701
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,440
titanium goes to titanium metal 
which is used in aerospace, so 

702
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,200
both defence and plane parts. 
So again, that sort of has a 

703
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,600
part military application as 
well as just overall people 

704
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,440
flying in more planes. 
So yeah, they they put a chart 

705
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,480
of GDP going up one way on their
on their map and titanium demand

706
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,280
kind of following that and 
interesting. 

707
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,120
The, the, the, the thing JD 
mentioned too is like the 

708
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,680
tendency of producers in this 
industry to build massive 

709
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,440
stockpiles when they can't get 
the price that you know is 

710
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,280
appropriate really limits the 
upside in this market. 

711
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,080
You don't get big flex, flex UPS
in sort of price because the 

712
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,560
producers build inventory and 
then they release that inventory

713
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,400
when prices are appropriate. 
But that keeps, you know, you 

714
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,520
don't get really volatile 
upswings like you would in other

715
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,680
commodities as a result of that.
Yeah, look at 2022 and look at 

716
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,560
Iluka's inventory balls of 21 as
well. 

717
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,120
It started but 22 drops 23 it 
starts picking up massively 

718
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,400
again. 
And so new supply is really, 

719
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,560
really responsive to better 
pricing environments too. 

720
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,440
There's a, if you think of this,
the types of operations these 

721
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,480
are, you can somewhat easily 
just start, you know, mining and

722
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,280
processing a bit more. 
There's, there's often times 

723
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,680
spare capacity. 
Think of, think of Myluca having

724
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,640
their, their, you know, 
synthetic kiln, one kiln 2. 

725
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,440
This, this swing capacity that 
can kind of come online as, as 

726
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,320
the market requires a bit more 
capacity. 

727
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,720
And then it pretty quickly gets 
supplied when the demands there 

728
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,680
and and all of a sudden prices 
don't stay elevated for long. 

729
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,800
Very interesting. 
I I know more about titanium as 

730
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,120
of 10 minutes ago. 
Thank you very much, gentlemen. 

731
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,440
I know far more as than I did as
of this morning. 

732
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,280
It's interesting one. 
Good stuff, right? 

733
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,000
A bit of bloody visible gold 
porn we're going through. 

734
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,960
Have a look at this period. 
Oh, this is new Murchison gold. 

735
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,640
Hit the bloody a good chunk of 
flake here on Ding Ding Ding. 

736
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,240
Oh yeah, Ding Ding alley. 
GC is dinging the crap out of 

737
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:38,200
the joint today, buddy. 
I I looked at this chord. 

738
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,960
I'm thinking holy snapping duck 
shit. 

739
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,240
I've not in terms of when you 
say visible Guild, I'll bring up

740
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:47,360
some historical ones, but it's 
usually a speck or something. 

741
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,600
There's not many that actually 
look like this, which really 

742
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,840
sparked my attention. 
So doing a bit of extensional 

743
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,120
drilling outside the resource 
and the pit. 

744
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,000
They've obviously, as we've 
mentioned, got the West Guild, 

745
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,000
have got their foot on them 
pretty much for mine and a 

746
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,560
million tonne out of that open 
pit. 

747
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,920
So this is beyond that for the 
for the future. 

748
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,920
So I thought why not looking at 
that call, look at some visible 

749
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,280
gold from history and just say 
there's there's one I haven't 

750
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,880
been able to get a hold of yet 
but I'll I'll get it in due 

751
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,480
time. 
Got to go through type visible 

752
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,880
gold in the chat. 
GPT was the 1st starting point. 

753
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:25,520
Walk us through history mate 
there. 

754
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,840
Was actually one in February 
this year, Advance Metals, 

755
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,440
they're down in the Victorian 
gold fields. 

756
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,320
So you can see, as I said, 
there's me bloody what's me 

757
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,520
going? 
It's actually on mobile view too

758
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,280
and it's bloody shitting. 
Victorian gold fields have been 

759
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,080
have been good for the visible 
gold, haven't they? 

760
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,240
Yeah, I think all one I've 
probably missed was Southern 

761
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:47,600
Cross. 
I think they hit some as well. 

762
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,960
So you say this one that's a 
there's your visible gold, which

763
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,400
is for the money miners that 
that don't know when like to 

764
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,600
have visible gold is not as 
common like most, most gold you 

765
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,080
cannot see like 99% of drill 
intersections is gold you cannot

766
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,120
see. 
That's why it's in when it says 

767
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,440
10 grams per, which is pretty 
good grade, that's 10 parts per 

768
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,640
million. 
So hence you it's gold that is 

769
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,880
very that small, you just cannot
see it. 

770
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,760
So in these are the cases where 
you can see it, which sometimes 

771
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,560
not all the time is an 
indication of higher grade 

772
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,400
because it might be just very 
isolated. 

773
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,800
Yeah, I think it's important to 
remember it isn't always. 

774
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:28,640
So it can be a bit deceiving and
you can mentally throw you off 

775
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,480
when you see a big chunk of 
yellow stuff, but the grade 

776
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,000
doesn't come out quite as good 
as you think it might. 

777
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,440
Yeah. 
And then and you got to also 

778
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,120
think of how they extrapolated 
over the like if it gets smeared

779
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,760
across a resource here, if they 
put top, and we'll show here 

780
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,480
where they put top cuts on 
assays where they say, right, 

781
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,840
we're not reporting anything 
above 50 grams because they 

782
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,240
don't want to blow out the area 
of influence of this one bit of 

783
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:51,240
visible gold. 
And then you end up mining next 

784
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:52,680
to it and there's fucking no 
gold. 

785
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,160
So so that's a that's a small 
little speck there in the 

786
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,840
Victorian goldfields. 
Next one we'll bring up on 

787
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:05,240
visible Maddie's visible gold. 
I'll stop saying porn ballymore 

788
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,360
Ballymore resources. 
This one's a bit of a fine spec 

789
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,760
as well. 
I think that was a picture I was

790
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,200
bloody talking about there. 
What that come back at? 

791
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,920
.4 of a meter at 54g per ton, so
even visible gold was still 54. 

792
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,040
So it's not like knockout 
knockout next one Odyssey gold. 

793
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,800
These guys fly under the radar a
bit of I. 

794
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,720
Remember this one? 
Yeah, 2021 and it's like it 

795
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:36,840
obviously looks so yeah, gold 
like, but I remember it come 

796
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,160
out. 
A subsequent announcement said 

797
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,960
that it broke the upper bound of
the machine. 

798
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,160
Yeah. 
So I've actually got that that. 

799
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:45,920
When that happened. 
That, that one here, the central

800
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,920
sub sample has exceeded the 
laboratory upper detection limit

801
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,400
of 12,000 grams per tonne. 
So it's just pretty much gold in

802
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,480
that section, yeah. 
That's West Perth Hall of Fame 

803
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:57,560
I. 
Love it. 

804
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,040
So they're 'cause they're 
actually in the got it. 

805
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,520
They're right in the right in 
the Murchison. 

806
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,200
Bloody thing. 
But just north in between maker 

807
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,520
and Q that which is actually 
pretty close to where new 

808
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,440
Murchison have hit theirs. 
So that's that's not a bad look 

809
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,720
at that's a pretty good looking 
one. 

810
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:19,080
The Odyssey 1 great boulder. 
They remember the this was the 

811
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,320
one where they went into trading
halt straight away because 

812
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,360
visible gold was coming out of 
the RC chips and paddow actually

813
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,920
put in the announcement. 
We had to go into the trading 

814
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,680
halt before the drillers got to 
the pub. 

815
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,400
So that one actually, this one 
actually come back at 1m at 

816
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:42,240
3451g per tonne. 
So that was a bit of a bit of a 

817
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:47,440
hemdinger you'd think with 
bloody Spartans resource they've

818
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,640
got, they should have had some 
visible gold at some point. 

819
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,200
They have these, this was the, I
think it's one of the early ones

820
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,320
from when they were still called
gas coin. 

821
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,840
You can see the bloody little 
specks there. 

822
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:02,280
Not not huge amounts that come 
back at you know, that was a 

823
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,680
like a pretty much did the whole
thing at 29 meters at 11 grams. 

824
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,200
But as I was mentioned about top
cuts here, you say assays top 

825
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,280
cut to 50 grams per ton. 
So in the intervals they were, 

826
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,720
if something blew the machine 
apart like Odyssey did, they'd 

827
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:24,000
just get a 50 gram top cut to 
mean that right doesn't smear 

828
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,200
across the resource and then 
potential upside later if you do

829
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,000
have those top cuts in place, 
it's a bit more of a 

830
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,480
conservative approach. 
I'll still remember this is one 

831
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,520
of my favourites from back in 
the day 2011, the early Northern

832
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,920
Star days. 
This is actually when I was 

833
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,480
there. 
This is I think Voyager 2. 

834
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,560
This was the and just the the 
way that the announcement, just 

835
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,320
the biggest baldest riding 
12,178g per tonne. 

836
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,040
That was bloody bill in bloody. 
He was in Max gold mode then he 

837
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,960
loved it. 
So I think that's you can see 

838
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,200
visible gold on the corner there
at the top of the core. 

839
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,440
So it wasn't like a for that 
grade. 

840
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,880
So there was obviously a shit 
load of fine gold in there, not 

841
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,360
just a big bloody gold flake. 
So it comes in different shapes 

842
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,680
and sizes. 
Don't think the ASX would let 

843
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,880
you do that one anymore. 
Nah, yeah, Good, good. 

844
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,360
Bloody a lot. 
I love the font good font size 

845
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,720
there now one of the biggest 
humdingers of gold deposits that

846
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:28,520
were found that just look like a
friggin Abscess come off this 

847
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,880
ore body was Fosterville, which 
was Kirkland Lake. 

848
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,560
Then obviously Agnico Agnico 
Eagle took over Kirkland Lake 

849
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,360
and they're not in the the 
heyday that Fosterville was like

850
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,960
they the I think it was a 30 
gram head grade going through 

851
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,040
the mill there like it. 
Was good Oz. 

852
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,480
Phenomenal. 
And here's a picture of the I 

853
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,200
think this looks pretty zoomed 
in of some core at Fosterville 

854
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,840
and you but you look at you look
at the infill drilling results, 

855
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,360
these these drilling results 
aren't that core, just it was 

856
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:08,040
from a different time, but 976g 
per tonne over 7 meters, 933g 

857
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,880
per tonne over 6 meters like 
that is the friggin gold. 

858
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,760
The Fosterville was just this 
absolute anomaly. 

859
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:20,000
It was unbelievable. 
The now the probably I don't 

860
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,280
know if this was the one you 
were talking about JD beta hunt,

861
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,400
beta hunt. 
So beta hunt back in when was 

862
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,600
this 2019, around 2018-2019. 
They were they were it was a 

863
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,880
nickel mine. 
They weren't even a bloody gold 

864
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,280
mine. 
It was owned by RNCS. 

865
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,720
That was a Canadian company and 
it was, they're trying to sell 

866
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:46,160
it as a nickel mine. 
And it was just, you know, it 

867
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,400
was tough going there. 
And they knew this. 

868
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,720
They knew gold was in pockets in
random places. 

869
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,680
And I remember I was at, I think
I was working at Daisy Milano at

870
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,000
the time. 
So a lot of the people at Daisy 

871
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,680
were in drive out of Cambalda. 
So I was all part of that 

872
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,920
Cambalda community and this 
they've pretty much taken I 

873
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,880
think he just took an air leg 
drive cut and they've come down 

874
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,080
and he started washing it down 
and they were like that to ring 

875
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:19,640
up and say, I think Jr., you got
to get down here because there 

876
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,880
it was just fuck and gold 
everywhere. 

877
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,320
And you can see the see these 
rocks here. 

878
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,280
So you've just got these. 
I don't know what it looks like.

879
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,720
It's got gold mould on it. 
Like there's just gold growing 

880
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:33,240
on the rock. 
It was just, and it was, they've

881
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:36,800
obviously just hit this patch 
and then they've kept going on 

882
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,680
it. 
And then I think a year later as

883
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,280
well there they hit another 
patch. 

884
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,840
And so the the sales process 
just became so much easier. 

885
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:51,840
It just went from not being able
to sell it at all to assume they

886
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,920
sold it. 
RNC sold it to Korora. 

887
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,400
Korora would just rename. 
I'm not sure. 

888
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,440
I'm not sure actually. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

889
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,080
Maybe they maybe they did. 
Maybe that that was it. 

890
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,040
Yeah. 
So it was. 

891
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,680
That's obviously the beta hunt 
that W Guild have as we speak. 

892
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,080
So don't worry about the nickel.
This is gold. 

893
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,880
So that was a 90K gold specimen 
that rock. 

894
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,800
So I don't know what the bloody 
grade of that was. 

895
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,960
So the the one I can't find that
I remember getting showed at the

896
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,200
at the wet mess. 
So and it was a photo. 

897
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,520
So it's one thing at the wet 
mess. 

898
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,400
That was definitely true. 
And it was this picture from an 

899
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:36,480
all drive at Yulgan Star, which 
is Southern Cross, which is on 

900
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,480
what is it, Bartow Gold Minjar, 
now that area. 

901
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,120
And it was from I think it was 
the 90s. 

902
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:47,480
And it was so, you know, like 
the yeah, Bellevue's and Horror 

903
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,200
banders and that like you just 
have the quartz vein going 

904
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,640
through the guts. 
This was a drive like that. 

905
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,160
But the vein which was like 
pretty bloody thick was just a 

906
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,360
gold vine. 
Like it was just frigging pure 

907
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,800
gold. 
I've never seen anything like 

908
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,280
it. 
It was just absolutely 

909
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,600
phenomenal. 
I wish I had the photo. 

910
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,720
If I find the photo I'll I'll 
show everyone, but I'll it was 

911
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:16,400
just a thing of absolute beauty.
Chuck it in the director 

912
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:17,280
special. 
Mate, Yeah. 

913
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,000
And then I've also heard if 
anyone's got photos, these are 

914
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,040
real back in the day, I've heard
Norseman back in the day, like 

915
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,560
Harlequin of. 
Well, the shift boss who worked 

916
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:32,840
with at Paulson said, you know, 
most minds you got, what was it 

917
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,480
like? 
It'd be all quartz. 

918
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,120
Like I know Paulsen's was all 
quartz in the ore body. 

919
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,480
And then you'd have a, you know,
the gold bearing vein in the 

920
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,680
middle. 
He said, I think, I think it was

921
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,640
Harlequin or one of the northern
gold parts was the opposite. 

922
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,760
So you'd have all gold and then 
just quartz veins here and 

923
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,760
there. 
So there's a yeah, God, but 

924
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:57,560
people were with all that free 
gold comes a lot of gold in 

925
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,320
people's pockets as well, so. 
There's socks and. 

926
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,480
Yeah, yeah. 
And there's all there's some 

927
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,400
some stories from back in the 
day of the gold that the the 

928
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,400
reconciliation wasn't there and 
like pay you like I've heard 

929
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,960
people that like when once the 
authorities actually came to 

930
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,680
sight and people knew they were 
buggered, there was yeah, there 

931
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,080
was some horrible events that 
happened on the back of that. 

932
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,200
So and that but and gold was 
what, in the hundreds of dollars

933
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,920
an ounce then when that was 
happening. 

934
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,760
So could you imagine running 
into that stuff now at 4600? 

935
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,880
So good luck. 
Just keep fucking drilling 

936
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,640
aisles everyone. 
You will find it. 

937
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,280
To wrap up that'll. 
Be into it, but I'm not going to

938
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:40,760
RIP them out for you nice and 
quick. 

939
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:41,400
Was it? 
Was it? 

940
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,240
Was it RNC? 
Royal Nickel Corporation in June

941
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,200
2020 changed its name to 
Carolla. 

942
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,240
There you go. 
Yeah, beautiful. 

943
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,880
Nothing like a name change. 
It's like M&A happened. 

944
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:54,200
Beautiful mate. 100 bucks off 
yours. 

945
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,320
IMM underground operators 
tickets April 7th to 9th in 

946
00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,560
Adelaide. 
Can't bloody wait. 

947
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,200
Also got our great partners MMS 
grounded, CMP ground sports, CRO

948
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,720
insurance K drill WA water 
balls, swig watra project 

949
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:13,520
engineering, cross boundary 
energy, hoodoo, money mods, 

950
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,360
hoodoo. 
Information contained in this 

951
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,120
episode of Money of Mine is of 
general nature only and does not

952
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,760
take into account the 
objectives, financial situation 

953
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,800
or needs of any particular 
person. 

954
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,160
Before making any investment 
decision, you should consult 

955
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,200
with your financial advisor and 
consider how appropriate the 

956
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,920
advice is to your objectives, 
financial situation and needs.