1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,800 If you're an insto investor in the space and you sort of catch 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,400 wind that they're going to do like a decent raise 100. 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,840 Million for spot for spot. You know it's on like it's, it's 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,280 so on when you catch wind that there's, you know, the equities 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:24,230 are just going to RIP you dogs. 6 00:00:25,190 --> 00:00:28,430 Uranium, JD uranium, it just had its biggest one day spike in 7 00:00:28,430 --> 00:00:31,990 years and it all started with spotlighting the fuse. 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,720 A surprise $100 million raise for the financial reactor has 9 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,080 been upsized to $200 million and it sent the uranium equities 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,320 flying. Why we dive into this? 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,880 Plus, copper juniors get even hotter. 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,160 The takeover of newer resources is getting competitive. 13 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:49,920 Please be a bidding war and should gold companies hold the 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,880 gold or generate cash? We're going to share some 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:53,800 thoughts on this. Let's dive in JD, what the hell 16 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,160 is going on in the uranium market, mate? 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:57,280 Let's. RIP in, we've got some awesome 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,240 stuff to talk about. So uranium first up, I'm sure 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,560 that's what a lot of people are keen to here. 20 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,920 So sort of seeing news come out over late Sunday and then into 21 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,680 early this week all centered around Spot, the Mighty spot, 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,760 spot Physical, Uranium Trust. So that is the unit that just 23 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,280 holds £66 million plus of uranium. 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,120 They get cash, they buy more. So like you said, 100 million US 25 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,040 raising upsize to 200 and we're going to talk about that dynamic 26 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,200 a bit also very interesting. And you mentioned the word sort 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,360 of surprise raising there. It was right because they raised 28 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,240 money it over $25 million just in May. 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,280 So a bit going on there. And and obviously the the stocks 30 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,640 just rocketed for Monday, Tuesday like deep yellow on 31 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:53,280 Monday was up 20% plus Boss 16 and Paladin about 15% all in on 32 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,360 the Monday that was. And then if you look at the 33 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,040 Sprott Uranium Miners ETF, so the basket of all these names 34 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,640 that trades in the North American markets, that was up 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,160 about 7%. So spot itself has settled a 36 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,560 bit. It it jumped up from kind of 17 37 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,720 ish to to about 18 bucks and then has come back down to the 38 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,440 low seventeens. But yeah, it's been super 39 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,160 volatile the last few months. We've had that sort of narrative 40 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,680 of or maybe spot has to sell some pounds to finance itself. 41 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,840 That's sort of washed away and it's just, it's just turned like 42 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,400 that, right? It's turned probably because of 43 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,560 some opportunism from the financial sector. 44 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,000 JD, let's start with Spot itself, because this is the the 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,560 trust of the vehicle. It's a Sprott unit trust, which 46 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,080 is effectively accumulating pounds of uranium. 47 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:51,880 Yeah, typically this this vehicle can only add more pounds 48 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,760 when it trades above NAV, which it hasn't done in quite some 49 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,360 time. However, this placement and the 50 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,920 last one have have been able to get over the line. 51 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:02,960 Yeah. I mean, if you, you look at the 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,640 chart right and you can see it, it kind of flattens off in terms 53 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:08,960 of how many pounds they've added to their their total 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,880 inventories, if you like. So that dynamic with trading at 55 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,880 a discount, training to premium kind of guides it's buying 56 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,160 action. So now prior to this raise, like 57 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,920 if we look at Friday's close on a per share, per share basis was 58 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,480 17 bucks and four cents, they last traded at 1698. 59 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,040 So really close like we're we're we're talking, you know a couple 60 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:41,400 decimals of a percent and it had been closer to 10% not too long 61 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,760 ago. So it had been a while since 62 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,720 they'd got that close and we knew the company had been 63 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,600 itching to do a raise although. The company? 64 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,760 Well, Sprott. It is a company of sorts, right? 65 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,440 The the management team of the trust. 66 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,920 Yeah, and. Sporting Ku Klux fees, a lot of 67 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,200 fees on this this vehicle. Yeah, exactly. 68 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:08,800 So they needed to back in May like quell the sort of fees in 69 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,160 the market that they were going to sell pounds because that had 70 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,600 been pressing the market down been a bit of an overhang if you 71 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,760 like. And we thought that first, if 72 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,120 you like had been quenched by doing this May raising 73 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,120 25,000,000 bucks meant they had over 30 which would at kind of 74 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,200 current rates funded for a bit over a year. 75 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,240 And that was done pretty impressively because that was 76 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,960 done at a 9% premium. So they were trading at a steep 77 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:37,080 discount to NIV and you can't raise at a discount because it's 78 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:38,800 dilutive and yadda, yadda, yadda. 79 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,720 So they. Don't I think it's explicitly 80 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,320 like a rule of this trust is, you know, there there can be no, 81 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,360 no buying of pounds unless it trades above NAB. 82 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,640 So this money had to come into that vehicle above NAB I 83 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,520 believe. And they got it done, which was, 84 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,240 yeah, it, it, it was well done on their part. 85 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,000 It, it like relaxed the market, if you like. 86 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,640 We didn't seem the the same kick up that we we saw today, which 87 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,280 is kind of interesting. But it meant they could finance 88 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,800 themselves for for a while and they wouldn't have to sell these 89 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,000 pounds. And I mean. 90 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,240 Well, think of the rationale, right? 91 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,440 Why do you like, why are hedge funds or whatever tipping in to 92 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,160 buy spot above NAV doesn't quite make a lot of sense when there's 93 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,200 like there's a fair bit of carrying costs associated 94 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,560 withholding holding spot like all of the fees that go go at 95 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,040 this process. Why are you willing to pay above 96 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,400 NAV? What's your actual position 97 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,600 here? It's actually in EU equities 98 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,320 which were which had high short interest if you get set in them 99 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,200 and what the flow and implications could be. 100 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,240 Yeah, I mean, and in the wider uranium market it it's bizarre. 101 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,920 There's a lot of bizarre things about uranium and the the 102 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,960 dynamics we currently see with financial players in this 103 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,520 market. It's kind of bizarre to think 104 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,280 that the overhang over a commodity market would be the 105 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:55,200 thinking that a physical trust like it's a, it's a dynamic that 106 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,680 only is kind of possible right now in uranium. 107 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,120 You're not going to see it in in many other markets when the 108 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,280 physical trust is big on in the scale of things, right? 109 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:07,640 It's AUS 5:00-ish billion dollar vehicle. 110 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,160 So yeah, you, you put that aside because we thought in May they 111 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,400 raised this money, it's all good. 112 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,640 But now mid June, we see $100 million raising kind of hit the 113 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,200 boards Sunday into Monday and then it's upsized and being done 114 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,960 at a premium to NAV as well as to the last close, a narrow one, 115 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,280 but still a premium. And the uranium spot for us 116 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:33,080 flew. So it's the biggest run in like 117 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,720 years, like one day jump that we'd seen and it's kind of an 118 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,480 obvious outcome, right when spot, you know, is going to use 119 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,240 this cash to go into the spot market. 120 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,320 The spot market we know is by and large financial players and 121 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,200 traders and these sorts they're trying to get in front of the 122 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,920 train and and buy it before spot can do it. 123 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,680 So but but. Brought themselves a disciplined 124 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,640 like in buying the pounds they're not going to they're not 125 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,960 going to exercise the yeah, the amount of I suppose I'll 126 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,080 discipline that we saw on in that single day on the in the 127 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:08,960 spot market on the spot price. So that was. 128 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,920 Hard to be disciplined right because this is a thinly traded 129 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:17,560 you know you see lots of 100,000 lbs here and there a few trades 130 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,360 a week type of thing. Like they they did buying back 131 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,040 in 23 over like a 5 month period and they bought like 1 1/2 ish 132 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:33,640 £1,000,000 and that helped drive the uranium price from 60 ish 133 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,440 bucks a pound up to like 90 bucks a pound. 134 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:43,120 So completely agree like that they are not the same as like 135 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,200 the traders in the market. They're not as kind of short 136 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:48,600 termed in a sense. They're they're putting it in a 137 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,400 pile and they kind of think about the way they go about it. 138 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,280 But but that. Money is earmarked 2 by pounds. 139 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,480 Now that 200 million bucks? Yeah, earmarked 2 by pounds. 140 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,160 And yeah, that that gets you excited if you're a trader. 141 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:01,840 I suppose there's another way of looking at it. 142 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,600 And to go back to the the narrative framing, the narrative 143 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,080 has quickly flipped from being quite a like a depressive 144 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,600 narrative in the space to like spot is good to buy pounds. 145 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,160 You've got these RFPs, these requests for proposals coming on 146 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,200 the back of the European summer. I know what you're thinking, but 147 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,000 that is what people are saying out there. 148 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,840 You got big tech bullish, supportive of the whole thing. 149 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,440 You've got all these new reactor announcements from India to the 150 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Czech Republic to all over the world. 151 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,480 You've got the uncertainty around Liberation Day kind of 152 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,400 waning supply still not coming online. 153 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,320 Like you can bend all the facts and and figures and all of a 154 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,799 sudden you've got a awesome narrative to wrap around it and. 155 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:45,280 Narrative always follows Price, right? 156 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,360 They work in tandem, they work hand in hand and a kind of good 157 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,920 sales pitch goes goes a long way right. 158 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,640 So all of a sudden spot is trading at a discount because 159 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,240 for for a couple of reasons, they haven't actually issued the 160 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,040 the new shares. So if you're looking on the spot 161 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,440 website, you you'll see that hasn't actually changed just 162 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,360 yet. That'll happen on the 20th of 163 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,200 June and the spot price jumps. So it it looks like they're in 164 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,000 A5 six 7% discount. Already, I think I think that 165 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,080 discount is structural like even when they did the $25 million 166 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,920 placement, they didn't then trade above NAV post doing that 167 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,440 and you know here here again, I don't I don't think you're going 168 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,480 to see. And they're they're always, 169 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,480 always like ish going to trade at a discount structural to your 170 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,920 point because of the fees. Embedded in the yeah, there's, 171 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,560 well, there's certainly been periods in the past historically 172 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:43,400 when there's enough like retail sentiment that has facilitated a 173 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,280 spot to trade at A at a premium. And that's why they've 174 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,760 accumulated the amount of pounds that they they have over time. 175 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,360 Yeah, that stopped a while ago. This this upsizing daily 176 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,880 thoughts? Right, A lot of thoughts on 177 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,720 this, right. So if if you're an Instore 178 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:58,960 investor in the space and you sort of catch wind that they're 179 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,320 going to do like a a decent raising 100 million. 180 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,640 A spot. A spot. 181 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,280 Particularly if you're an Instore who's long uranium 182 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,960 equities, you know, it's on like it's, it's so on when you catch 183 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,080 wind of this. This was done through through 184 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,800 Canaccord as people would have read. 185 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,000 And you know, the equities are just going to RIP and the 186 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,760 sentiment is going to change if you you catch wind of this. 187 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,800 And you also think, you know, particularly in Australia here 188 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,520 where there's such high short interests currently in the name. 189 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,440 So those come off a little bit. But boss still at 18% plus 190 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,760 Paladin like 1516% short interest there. 191 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,960 There is an opportunity. Here isn't that crazy. 192 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,320 So the uranium juniors like I, I look at the equities and they 193 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,480 are undoubtedly like trade as high beta to the uranium spot 194 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,440 price. Explain high beta just real 195 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,560 quick for. Yeah, high beta. 196 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:54,760 It's just like you know what a 1% move in the in the uranium 197 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,640 spot price, you will get a larger than 1% move on average 198 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,840 in the in the uranium junior equities to the spot price, 199 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,320 right, Not the not the term price, the juniors trade is high 200 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,400 beta to the spot price and the spot price is such a thin 201 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,960 market. So the financial players can 202 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,240 squeeze that spot price by a spot, but they're getting paid 203 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,240 in the equities, right? That's the trade. 204 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,560 That's in fact, the trade was to be set in the equities before 205 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:24,000 spot launched that placement. And if you're paying attention, 206 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,080 those equities ripped a day before spot launched that 207 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,800 placement. That news almost certainly, you 208 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,520 know, fizzled out there and drifted out into the, into the, 209 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,000 yeah, the, the financial world and, and funds got set in the 210 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,280 equities and then and then they then they bid like crazy into 211 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,880 the spot placement knowing knowing that you get the the 212 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,160 high beta RIP that comes because spot prices, yeah, certainly go 213 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:49,680 higher. This is this is like a textbook 214 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:52,120 squeeze executed to perfection when you've got high short 215 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,160 interest in those equities. And and it's the difference 216 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,320 between the retail component and the installs as well that can 217 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,240 beat into big time mechanical and they can really push that. 218 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,000 You know, they they call their good friends at Canical and they 219 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,360 say, can we get a good bit of this and hence upsize from 100 220 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,000 million to 200 million. The thing just flies. 221 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,080 Well, that's that's. The interesting thing right this 222 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,880 this the winners of this trade are the are the instos, not not 223 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,960 retail, but those instos. They need to to like to lock in 224 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,600 their lock in their wins. What do they need? 225 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,720 They need to do? They need to sell eventually 226 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,560 their equities and and they probably need retail mania to 227 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:28,760 return to to to lock in those gains. 228 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,680 So I, you know, I think if, if retail kind of wraps around this 229 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:35,200 and gets excited and buys EU equities like that's yeah, 230 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,160 you're looking in the games for the guys that got set on the 231 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,760 race. The the retail guys, we still 232 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,200 feel like they've had an awesome win and might be back to to 233 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,720 previous levels for for some. But if you look back over the 234 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,720 last year, most of these most of these charts have gone up into 235 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,720 the right now after or perhaps even less than that after having 236 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,360 a bit of a brutal year before that. 237 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,080 Well, so isn't that kind of curious, right? 238 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,320 Because, you know, you talked to all the positive like market 239 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,960 thematic stuff and the narrative kind of I think gets wrapped 240 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:06,680 around spot price and spot price is thin and manipulated, yada 241 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,480 yada. But without. 242 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,120 Spot without spot without spot, Yeah. 243 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,800 Where is where is like where? Where's uranium right now? 244 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,440 Where's the uranium? Like I said, it's a bizarre 245 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,360 market. It's it's a truly wacky and kind 246 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,840 of perplexing market. And so much of this news just 247 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:29,600 relies on a physical trust which is not related to the the 248 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,640 fundamentals. Like it tries to piggyback off 249 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,360 the fundamentals but it doesn't. So what do you, what do you 250 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,640 think of this $200 million? What's going to what's going to 251 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,440 like impact is this going to have in the spot market? 252 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,560 I. Mean just looking at what you 253 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,040 can kind of buy with it is interesting. 254 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,560 Like you can get about two and a half million pounds ish. 255 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:51,400 Like we said before, they've got a bit over 66 for for context. 256 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,600 And if you look at 2024 in the spot market, we saw a bit under 257 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,160 £50 million trade. Now this is the spot market 258 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,560 again. So this could be the same pounds 259 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,200 gone back and forth a couple times between various traders 260 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,760 and and the like. So it's, it's hard to get a, a 261 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,040 grasp. But yeah, we we saw the spot 262 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,960 price jump up. So it'll be interesting to see 263 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:17,760 over what time horizon spot use the cash and and invest it if we 264 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,160 see sort of bigger volumes start to go through. 265 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,760 But yeah, like, like we sort of said that that earlier time 266 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,560 frame in 2023, the numbers we gave to what pushed the spot 267 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,880 price up quite dramatically. Yeah, I'm sure that's what a lot 268 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,760 of brokers were kind of pushed to now and say, hey, look what 269 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,440 happened last time, get on board. 270 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,680 Here's a good trading opportunity. 271 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,760 But I don't know how you can with any real confidence wrap 272 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,520 numbers around it. Like, yeah, you've got a a 273 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,040 buyer, a buyer who looks by all accounts like they they will go 274 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,120 and buy pounds. But people that make predictions 275 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,440 of it's going to be here by the end of the year kind of. 276 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,000 I scratched my head. We what we saw are similar sort 277 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,920 of thing play out like not all that long ago, to be fair, Like 278 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:08,040 Remember, Remember the start of 2024 and uranium was flying and 279 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,360 you know, spot was buying pounds and and then all of the hype 280 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,480 kind of fizzled out over. It's short term stuff, right? 281 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,840 Well, that's because that's because the real demand has 282 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,400 taken longer. Things take time, right? 283 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,840 This is this is financial demand that's yeah, moving, moving in 284 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:28,640 the traded spot market that that that gets the equities to 285 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,960 respond pretty sharply. And you know, people are making 286 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,240 very handsome like profits out of this trade. 287 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,000 Is it is it a true reflection of like future earnings growth? 288 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,320 That's the question mark. Yeah, Yeah. 289 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,760 I mean, and you'd ask a sort of person that makes the pitch 290 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,840 saying look at what happened last time, what happened after 291 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,720 spots stopped by the pounds, it just peeled off. 292 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,920 So it depends what your time horizon is when when you look at 293 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,000 this. And your point on the, the 294 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,760 earnings potential of the companies is really interesting 295 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,440 because if you look at some of the names in the ISX now and you 296 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:05,360 try and back out a uranium price and you use kind of middle of 297 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,000 the, the, the sort of Rd. numbers on mining assumptions 298 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,720 and these sorts of things. And you, you let the, the 299 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,920 sensitivity be or the, the variable that moves be the 300 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,120 uranium price. Like I feel like you're, you're 301 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,760 getting a, a price backed out that's well over 100 bucks. 302 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,240 Like it's you, you look at the market caps of some of these 303 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,200 businesses and the mine lives that they've produced and the 304 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,440 mining costs that they've kind of indicated to and all these 305 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,680 sorts of things. And you try and back solve like, 306 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,360 yeah, you might have expectations on them perhaps 307 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,080 being able to extend the mine life or find new pockets and 308 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,360 yeah, at a higher grade and all these sorts of things. 309 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,480 But there still needs to be a bit a bit of back solving to be 310 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,960 done or you're just you. Still use DCFS to value these 311 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,920 companies, right you're living. In the multiples multiples. 312 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,720 You're living in the old world. We don't need those things 313 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,880 anymore. They're ancient. 314 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,760 Yeah no, I see what you mean. And like, and that's the yeah 315 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,640 the overarching question especially like if if a lot of 316 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,160 the price actually is different by short squeeze. 317 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,920 That's not, not a reflection of fundamentals, although like, you 318 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:14,720 know, yeah, we we get a second hand that the the term pricing 319 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,880 is, you know, is, is, is is notching up like pretty steadily 320 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,599 at a decent, decent tick. So like that's the that's the 321 00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,040 reflection of of earnings growth is that's what's. 322 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,760 Turning to some term price. But the yeah, this, this the at 323 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,680 the end of the day, these equities move to the tune spot. 324 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:33,440 Yeah. And spot. 325 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,080 Spot is an influencing spot. Yeah, if you're in it for the 326 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,920 long term, keep a keep a good eye on what those sort of term 327 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,480 contract numbers. You start to see anything kind 328 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,640 of come out after the European summer like we always hear, 329 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,760 mate. Which European summer this this 330 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,800 one coming up, or the one before that, or the one before that? 331 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,080 I'll get too skeptical. Yeah, OK mate. 332 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,640 Well, talking about uranium has got me thinking about how mines 333 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,200 are powered, and most importantly, how they should be 334 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,960 powered. So you're thinking about how 335 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,560 mines are powered today and how they might be powered in the 336 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,240 future. Maybe I am and every time I end 337 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,480 up thinking about cross boundary energy. 338 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,760 Cross boundary energy. OK, tell me why. 339 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,720 They are the first name that comes to mind when I think of de 340 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,920 risk financing solutions. JD Hybrid Power stations you can 341 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,040 rely on solutions that can save the miners cash. 342 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:25,800 OK, mate, you, you've got me interested. 343 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,160 It's it's pretty amazing as well. 344 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,080 So not just power supply, we're talking fully financed turnkey 345 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,080 energy solutions. Zero CapEx, JD, zero CapEx, 346 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,360 cheaper OpEx, less stress while you build your project. 347 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,120 Where do I sign? What about? 348 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,560 What about? Does it matter where my project 349 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:44,760 is? It does not matter. 350 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:45,960 It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, mate. 351 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,920 You could be in, you'd be in WA if you if you wanted to, but you 352 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,480 could also be in Madagascar, you could be in Sierra Leone. 353 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,680 It it truly does not matter. Cross boundary energy will go 354 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,160 anywhere, all right. Mate I'm I'm on board if you are 355 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,480 after a hybrid power station that they risky project and 356 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,400 saves you money. Sounds like I should just call 357 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,600 cross boundary energy. Reliable, affordable, clean 358 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,200 energy customized for your mind. Go cross boundary energy all 359 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,640 righty. Be honest, New world resources. 360 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,160 We've got to talk a bit about these ones, mate. 361 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,600 There's been some drama. There has been indeed. 362 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,240 I'm, I'm, I've been, I've been getting in the weeds a little 363 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,560 bit the last few minutes. M and AI thought you might have 364 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,240 been mate. May 21st New World enters A 365 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,960 scheme with Central Asian Metals, who will also call CAML 366 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:36,040 Now that came out with an agreement for CMACAML Camel 367 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:41,960 Camel Mighty Camel to buy New World at $0.05 a share, giving 368 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,960 them a a rough valuation at $185 million. 369 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,160 I think that things like a 96% premium to to last. 370 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,840 They've been trading in the twos before. 371 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,160 That big, big, big, big premium, Yeah, great, great outcome for 372 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,600 New World shareholders. And on top of that, New World's 373 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,760 currently in a trading halt right now. 374 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,800 That trading halt references a bump in consideration on its way 375 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,520 for shareholders, those lucky shareholders. 376 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,360 But why the increase? Wasn't it already a giant 377 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:10,600 premium? They are licking their lips, 378 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,880 right. So we see that announcement and 379 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,680 then we see a change in substantial come out, right 380 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,040 Canterra Capital. So these guys have emerged as a 381 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,680 12% shareholder and they've paid up at a bit over $0.05 a share 382 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:24,880 on average. They've been, yeah, they've 383 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,320 bought in the high fours and you can see that the highest price 384 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,440 they've paid so far, 5.1 cents a share. 385 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,000 Yeah. And and the quick one O 1 on 386 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,520 Quintero, these are Canada based private equity groups. 387 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,720 So they've got a mandate for critical minerals projects as 388 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,320 well as kind of related infrastructure. 389 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,800 They previously actually wrapped up Southwest Critical Minerals, 390 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,240 and this one's particularly interesting because they were 391 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,640 the owners of the Pumpkin Hollow project in Nevada as well, 392 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:57,280 Copper project, US $128 million. So it's a very similar style of 393 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,520 project in a sense, you know? I can try and piece together 394 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,200 what, what's going on here and what's happened. 395 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,240 So Camel, Camel has a matching, right. 396 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:08,720 So if Quintera was buying stock on on market all the way up to 397 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,760 5.1 cents, then maybe Quintera's prepared to, to lob a, a bid for 398 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,480 100% of, of New World themselves for say call it 5.2 cents or 399 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,680 higher. You can't make a takeover offer 400 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,000 at a lower price than you've bought shares in the last four 401 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,240 months. So you know when the offer is 402 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,000 going to be, you know, north of north of that last price they've 403 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,040 paid. And Camel, they've signed this 404 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,760 scheme implementation deed with that matching right now. 405 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,920 I don't actually think Quintero has submitted a bid yet. 406 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:41,160 I, I think the flagged increase in consideration from camel is 407 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,600 actually just pre emptive. They're, they're trying to, you 408 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,400 know, get on top of this before they, before there's actually a 409 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,000 competing bid in place. But this is, this is still 410 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,680 awesome. You know, there's live bidding 411 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,000 effectively happening out here in the open, all to the benefit 412 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,880 of the New World shareholders. That 12% stake to Quintera right 413 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,720 now is very strategic. I hear that they're trying to 414 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,680 get their hands on 19.9% and the fact that Quintera is freely 415 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,000 buying shares on market here tells me a very important piece 416 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,080 of information. JD. 417 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,960 What's that mate? I want to draw your attention 418 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,920 first to this this quote in the New World announcement, the day 419 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,880 the deal with Camel was announced, it says the Board of 420 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,800 New World has entered into this transaction following the 421 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,080 completion of a highly competitive financing and 422 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,400 strategic partnering process during which the company 423 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,640 attracted strong interest from multiple Tier 1 counterparties, 424 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,720 including precious metal streamers, specialist mine 425 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,280 financiers and strategic partners. 426 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,640 Notwithstanding the compelling proposals received as part of 427 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,680 that process, the Board, in consultation with its advisers 428 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,360 carefully assessed the valuation, funding, timing and 429 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:49,480 execution certainty of the transaction compared with all 430 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,720 available alternatives. Now that there tells me two 431 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,600 things. One, a process has clearly been 432 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,600 run. 2, the word from that wording, I get the impression 433 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,200 the bid from Camel wasn't the highest bid in that process. 434 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,000 They're they're saying they weighed up all of these 435 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,680 different things. So to me, it comes across as the 436 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,520 most certain, like the most execution certainty, but I don't 437 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,560 think it was the highest price that they received. 438 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,320 And, and so now, now we know that New World ran a competitive 439 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,040 process because they, they tell, they tell that, well, when you 440 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,040 run a process, what you do is you have the participants in 441 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,480 that process that want access to your data room, They've got to 442 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,840 sign a confidentiality agreement or ACA. 443 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,080 Those CAS include customary standstill agreements. 444 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,960 If you're a public company and the standstill agreement 445 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,720 prevents the, you know, the the participant from buying any 446 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,400 stock in New World on market for a period of time, you know, call 447 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,920 it 12 to 24 months is is kind of standard, but you, you know that 448 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,400 buy any more shares, it stands still. 449 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,480 You're stuck at whatever you're on at that point in time. 450 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,720 And you can see in the scheme implementation date that Camel 451 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,560 executed that was signed on the 20th of December. 452 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,600 So that process is being run CA sign 20th of December. 453 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,600 It's a Christmas present. Nasty DD over the Christmas 454 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,200 period, but but OK, so, so this, you know, that's, that's when 455 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,480 the strategic process is being run. 456 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,080 We can introduce that. So if Quintero is freely buying 457 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,880 stock on market, what that tells me is that they weren't a part 458 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,840 of that formal process. They didn't sign ACA. 459 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,560 Importantly, there's no standstill preventing them from 460 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,320 buying stock right now. They're buying stock without 461 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,960 having done due diligence. They haven't been in the data 462 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,760 room. They're coming in hot. 463 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,360 This is a This is a rare sight. That's that's pretty 464 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,200 fascinating. And we know that they they're a 465 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,840 relatively recent PE group and the second fund hadn't even been 466 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,640 finalized yet. Obviously that they had their 467 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,760 first fund which was finalized late 23, but they hadn't put the 468 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,640 final touches on fund 2, which is what they have bought the 469 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,440 stock in at that date yet either. 470 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,200 So it's. So interesting, right? 471 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,440 Like you've got, I mean, they're, they're, they're 472 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,720 prepared to write this cheque well, for at least 2019.9% not 473 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,800 having done, not having had access to the data. 474 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,800 And maybe they've got synergies. And so that's letting them kind 475 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,360 of bid up confidently on the publicly available information. 476 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:10,720 But, and already you're getting the, the camel kind of just 477 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,960 lifting consideration in preparation to be like, hey, 478 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,600 hey, we're gonna wait. This is ours, not yours. 479 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,720 Go away. So I, I just, I hope it gets 480 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:18,840 juicy. I hope it gets interesting. 481 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,200 I hope shareholders just have a have a tremendous win here 482 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,560 because yeah, that like that's this stuff just gets gets 483 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:25,880 excited. It's awesome, Yeah. 484 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,160 I think there's more to be kind of said, maybe even like a whole 485 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,920 episode needs to be had on mining private equity. 486 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,240 I know we've sort of spoken about it a bunch, but yeah, not 487 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,080 totally convinced it's the right approach. 488 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,880 But we see, we, we do keep seeing a lot of these funds pop 489 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,800 up, particularly like North American oriented because the 490 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,480 endowments and stuff understand private equity, not mining, but 491 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,280 they understand private equity and it's something they can 492 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,800 allocate to. So, yeah, these guys, like I 493 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,920 said, just wrapped up another US $1 billion. 494 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,440 They they came from another mining private equity Canadian 495 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,400 group as well and started this just recently. 496 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,880 So yeah, there's something more to be said there, as well as the 497 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,760 fact that the copper names are just disappearing off the ASX. 498 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,000 The juniors in particular, yeah. There's not that many seniors 499 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,280 either. So yeah, Black Underbeard 500 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:19,080 Xanadu, who we've spoken about recently, New world here. 501 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,640 This breaks last year. We a bunch of them. 502 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,960 It's. And yet the the there's there's 503 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,960 new entrants coming on too. I don't know if you've noticed 504 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,240 it. Marry Marker debuted. 505 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:30,960 Yeah. And. 506 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,280 They they did a raising too and obviously we saw capstone coming 507 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,280 list a bit down here. Well marry marker might be 508 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,160 disappearing soon too. See, I think it's attack over 509 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,400 targets. Yeah, I think there's a a bit to 510 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:43,840 be seen there. Yeah. 511 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:46,520 All right, mate. Underground mining commodities 512 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,360 like copper, zinc, silver, all vital for our future. 513 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,920 That's the type of project in this case at New World that is 514 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000 only made possible by ground support. 515 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,120 And when I think ground support, I think Sandvik ground support. 516 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,360 And I want to share some more wise words from the man who has 517 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,520 LED Sandvik ground support in nearly 20 years. 518 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,240 Here is Derek heard money miners had. 519 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,920 Four years in Mount Isa with work, it was that company called 520 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,280 A and I back then I started as the R&D engineer, yeah, back 521 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,080 then. This is what ultimately became 522 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,720 Sandy Ground Support. Yeah, correct. 523 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,080 So, yeah, the A and I business got bought by the DSI business 524 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,240 and the that that time the DSI business was Divvy DAG and 525 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,880 that's DVDAC Systems International. 526 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,600 That's what the DSI. Yeah, exactly What a. 527 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,360 Name. So DSI actually goes back to 528 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:36,000 like the the mid 1800s, yeah. Absolutely back. 529 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,440 In German firm as well. Exactly strong lineage. 530 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,600 Yeah, so like 1865 I think it. Was and so you studied 531 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,920 engineering and mechanical engineering before. 532 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,400 Correct. So I'm a mechanical engineer, so 533 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,320 through Newcastle University, but pretty quickly realized 534 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,280 there's not too many people that stay true engineers and went off 535 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,600 and did a business degree as well. 536 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,200 So I had a career through the business that started as an RNA 537 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,800 engineer, moved into a sales role and then sort of a bigger 538 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,560 sales role and went to Mount Isa and lived up there for four 539 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,960 years and managed that region. And then came back and started 540 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,240 managing the export business and then sort of the national 541 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,400 business, then became sort of what they called a business unit 542 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,680 manager and then progressed into the CEO role. 543 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,640 Go Sandvik grant support. All right mate. 544 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,080 Last bit of last bit of chatter for today. 545 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,160 This is an interesting one. Tell me, Cat. 546 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,800 Tell me. Tell me what you tell me what 547 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,800 you uncovered. So black cat have come up with 548 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,360 these strategy names in past and they crack me up. 549 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,920 I I love them no knock on them they're they're hilarious, but 550 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,880 they are, you know, to the point they get your attention. 551 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,800 So the previous one they had was all gold sooner. 552 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,600 It's effective, you know, there's no confusion about it. 553 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,440 You know what they want, but they came out with an 554 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,080 announcement earlier this week and they've added to it. 555 00:28:54,360 --> 00:29:00,720 So more gold sooner to be held longer is the new strategy name. 556 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,160 And I don't think you need a marketing professional to tell 557 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,920 you that doesn't roll off the tongue as perhaps easy as it 558 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,400 could have, but. That's no, no man, I reckon you 559 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,360 couldn't have asked that deputy for a more succinct like like 560 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,360 more goals to be held long. I get your strategy in six 561 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:16,520 words. Like, yeah, that's it. 562 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,680 They vowed it. Don't have to read it as little 563 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,840 words as possible. So credit to them for that. 564 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,240 And we're talking about it. We're talking about it because 565 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,680 the strategy itself is interesting, so. 566 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,360 What are they doing? Goldie's wanting to hold more of 567 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:36,920 their liquid assets in the form of gold bullion as opposed to 568 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,520 cash and. That's what Blackout's saying. 569 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,120 They're they're they're came to, Yeah. 570 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,040 And they've already got $24 million worth of bullion. 571 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,320 Yeah. They want to keep as much 572 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,720 bullion as as possible and only sell what they need to. 573 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,200 Yeah. And in their case, they've sort 574 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,680 of given it a, a buffer like a a #20 million equivalent. 575 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,440 But I think it's worth discussing. 576 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,240 I think it's a really interesting strategy that that 577 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,400 they're doing and there's a few different features of it that 578 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,120 need to be discussed, right. So there's something to be said 579 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:10,040 for the taps tax implications of this because gold, when you're a 580 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,800 gold miner that you haven't yet sold is unrealized revenue, 581 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,960 right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 582 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,760 In many jurisdictions, income tax is only triggered when the 583 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,240 revenue is realized. In Australia, that unsold gold 584 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,480 is inventory, not not revenue on your balance sheet. 585 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,560 Therefore, no assessable income is is recognized until that sale 586 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,120 actually occurs, which means a natural deferral of your Income 587 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,280 Tax Act that has an impact on your on your cash flow. 588 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,440 Metrics as well. So the gold that stays on the 589 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,320 minus balance sheet, here's a bit of a catch though. 590 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,640 It'll be valued typically at the at the lower of cost price and 591 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,760 market value. And because the, the market 592 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,600 value of gold typically tends to go up over time, in reality, 593 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,000 it's it's held on your balance sheet at cost price. 594 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,480 And so in a rising gold market like these miners that choose to 595 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,880 do this from time to time, they will avoid recognizing a, a 596 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,080 high, a high book profit on that. 597 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,320 They just keep keep it on their balance sheet of cost. 598 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,280 One for the accountants out there. 599 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,040 I don't mind it though. Like I don't mind the strategy. 600 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,760 I don't, I don't mind it at all, right. 601 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,800 I, I think if you're of the philosophy that that gold is 602 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,520 money, which clearly a lot of your investor base will be kind 603 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,560 of partial to given you're investing in a gold mining 604 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,640 company. And I think it's too much of A 605 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,800 stretch to, to think that then it, it makes perfect sense. 606 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,160 It's kind of interesting yet, yet your market in, in dollars, 607 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,320 but you kind of got a market in something right. 608 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:47,000 But I it, it, it makes total sense if if you are wanting to 609 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,120 compete against inflation and all these sorts of things. 610 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,960 I kind of like it. The market would hate you for 611 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,200 just like accrue like building up cash only on your balance 612 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,720 sheet and having no plans to to distribute that to shareholders 613 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,960 or no way to reinvest it or organically. 614 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,520 Like, I do think, you know, the market would prefer to see 615 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,960 reinvestment for growth with the proceeds of the profits of a 616 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,200 Gold Bond for sure, or or distributions to shareholders 617 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,320 for sure. But you've got something 618 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,200 leftover at the end of that and you decide to keep it in gold or 619 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,040 you've got your available liquidity in gold. 620 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,920 I don't hate it. I don't think the market is 621 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,800 going to love it or value it in general, though. 622 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,440 And there's a couple of like, there's one big precedent I can 623 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,160 point to that it's a very peculiar case and maybe not the 624 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,520 best precedent to talk about. JD, please, you know, do you 625 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:36,840 know who I'm talking about? I do. 626 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,200 One of our favorite companies. Yeah, it's, it's actually two 627 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,960 companies Tribune and Rand. So these are the JV partners E 628 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,320 Kendana joint venture to, to Evolution mining previously was 629 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:52,960 it was Northern star of the JV partners. 630 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,400 Now, now Tribune if you look at their books, they equity account 631 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,000 Rand. So all you've got to look at is 632 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:04,080 the inventories on the balance sheet of of of Tribune as it's 633 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:09,720 31 December in their accounts. You can you can see gold on hand 634 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:17,120 at cost 177 million of gold bullion, but it's valued at cost 635 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,160 JD and neither Tribune nor Rand will tell you anywhere how many 636 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,080 ounces they actually have bullion. 637 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,480 You you're just left with that number trying to figure it out. 638 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,280 But if you do your homework and Perth. 639 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,680 Means it's just their fault. Mate, if you. 640 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,360 If you can't trust it. I haven't done this homework 641 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,880 myself, but I trust the people that that did do this homework. 642 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,560 Go through the history and you can deduce what's been produced 643 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,960 and what's been sold over time and you can back out. 644 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,320 The Tribune and Rand collectively have about 130,000 645 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:55,120 ounces of gold in the accounts. At the Perth Mint, 130,000 646 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,520 ounces of gold, while it might be be valued on the books at 647 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:05,120 $177 million, is actually worth $680 million a current process. 648 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,080 That's a staggering amount of of bullion and I I'm pretty sure 649 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,600 that that this is the single largest account of gold on hand 650 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,639 at the Perth Mint. Crazy. 651 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:19,520 And what gets weirder, mate, if you just add the market caps of 652 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,560 Rand and Tribune together, you'll get $370 million. 653 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,440 Now that is, that's like half the value of the, the gold alone 654 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,080 that they have on hand, not least of which they still 655 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,000 clearly have an, an economic interest in a joint venture that 656 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,560 is still producing a lot more gold that should be worth a fair 657 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,760 bit of money. So this is like as negative EV 658 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,280 as they get. Granted, you can't quite figure 659 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,239 out when you're going to get paid here because because 660 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,120 there's, you know, kind of a, a complicating share shareholder 661 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,199 dynamic and structure and a few obstacles in the way to A, to A, 662 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:54,560 to an outcome if you were an activist. 663 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,760 One or two. One or two, One or two. 664 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,600 Fascinating example nonetheless, but really it's a ballsy 665 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,640 strategy. Kind of admire the strategy to 666 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,200 to do it and to not really give a crap about what people think 667 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,280 and just just a cream like gold. I hope the Mint still has that 668 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,400 gold. Yeah, I'd, I'd probably 669 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,600 diversify the mints that I hold the the the bars with it's a 670 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,480 lot. Of faith in the Mint. 671 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,960 Is a tremendous amount of faith in the in the Perth Mint. 672 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,640 So, yeah, I, I think it's really interesting if we go back to the 673 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,640 the strategy again, looking at like parallels, we've seen this 674 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,880 in uranium, but it's kind of weird. 675 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,840 Like you don't see it in any other and it just wouldn't 676 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,920 really be OK in any other commodities. 677 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,560 So yeah. Why is that? 678 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,760 It's because it's because like obviously the dollar is clearly. 679 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,280 Yeah, and. The value that arose over time 680 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,880 and gold is seen as like a a clear and proven way of 681 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,040 circumnavigating that, whereas other commodities aren't as 682 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,040 inflation resistant. Yeah. 683 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,880 I mean, a lot of people point to commodities being the good 684 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,760 inflation hedge, but not all commodities are equal, right? 685 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,040 So yeah, it wouldn't be chuffed if like a zinc producer is going 686 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,960 to start doing this, but gold, maybe it's OK given the many 687 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,400 thousand year track record. So yeah, I think they could have 688 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,560 put a slightly better chart than just going back 20 years to to 689 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,400 prove their point. But I think the the strategy is 690 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,400 interesting nevertheless and I don't mind it. 691 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,840 What? Do you think money minus let us 692 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,760 know Ford gold or what cash or none of you above. 693 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,000 Or what else? All righty mate. 694 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,160 Let's thank our wicked partners for today's episode. 695 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,360 Mineral Mining Services, Grounded Sand, Vic Ground 696 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,800 Support, Adriel and Boss Boundary Energy, Buduru. 697 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,400 Buduru. Now remember, I'm an idiot. 698 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,120 JD is an idiot. If you thought any of this was 699 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,640 anything other than entertainment, you're an idiot 700 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,200 and you need to read out a disclaimer.