1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,400 That's that last ad you did for us. 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,000 Yeah. That was good. 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,280 You liked it? I actually did, yeah. 4 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,160 I thought that was one of the better ones for some reason. 5 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:10,000 Yeah, that's. Cool. 6 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:12,320 Yeah. So you're either getting better. 7 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,880 Or. That one just kind of. 8 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,920 That through. Hopefully we get let me let me 9 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,800 pull it out. I had to get better or that was 10 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:24,480 it, an anomaly. So. 11 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,680 So who still needs convincing now? 12 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,960 It's in the fin, So maybe it was because of that, yeah. 13 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,160 Yeah, yeah, research back like. Research back. 14 00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:36,320 There's a science behind it now. It's actually, do you know, 15 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,120 Yeah, a doctor in, you know, architectural and well-being. 16 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,480 Or do you know? Yeah, whatever his PhD is. 17 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,880 Yeah, wouldn't it be funny if you just gave us feedback on our 18 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,680 ads, you know, and then that's our ad for next week. 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:49,720 Yeah, you guys know what I agree with. 20 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,080 That yeah, what are you? Gonna ramp up here, yeah. 21 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,680 Once you got there mate. Oh, sorry mate, it's just I'm 22 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,400 always reading this book. Yeah, I like to put this book 23 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,200 front and centre and yeah, I think you should just sit here 24 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:11,800 for me. Place it right there. 25 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,360 From now on, yeah, it's a quite a good book. 26 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,120 I should read it one day mate. You know what time reading hey. 27 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:17,080 Yeah. No, it's good. 28 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,880 It's good. It's really good one. 29 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,640 Have you read it? I've sort of perused it I would 30 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,600 say. Rocks, fossils and formations. 31 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,080 Discoveries through time. I hear the author is quite 32 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:27,640 switched. On Thomas RH Warwick. 33 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,480 Rings a bell mate, we've got a bit on the menu today. 34 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,360 Yeah, we do this stuff going how good, how good of a sport was 35 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,040 Paul Natoli at the start there? What a what an absolute legend 36 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,400 that was Paul Natoli of Grounded Construction, if it wasn't 37 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,600 immediately obvious from the beautiful lots of tones of his 38 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,200 voice giving us some guidance and feedback on our last ad. 39 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,920 A local hero go poorly mate. Like you said, lots happening in 40 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,640 commodities, lots happening in markets. 41 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,800 I, I'm excited commodities are, are sort of moving kind of 42 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,680 volatile. We've seen gold peel off and 43 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,360 everything. And when it comes to the 44 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,240 companies, mate, Paladin have made some changes at the helm. 45 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,640 Predictive came out with the DFS and I'm very keen to sort of dig 46 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,639 into how the M and A dynamics play out. 47 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,680 We've, we've seen about a year of action and I think we're 48 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,520 into, into crunch time there now and. 49 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,880 They predicted the discovery. Can we predict who the buyer is 50 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,720 going to be? And we've got approvals in 51 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,320 Victoria of all places, as well as a junior in the lithium space 52 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,600 doing a buy back, so plenty to RIP through. 53 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,200 But first of all, this episode's made possible by none other than 54 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,280 Mineral Mining Services. MMS Mate, the mining services 55 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,600 business that just gets it done. It doesn't matter if you're an 56 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,960 established miner or you've got a beautiful ore body there 57 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,480 waiting to be ripped out, MMS is the partner you can rely on to 58 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:40,840 get the job done. Mate it. 59 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,920 Doesn't even matter if you don't know the ore body is fully there 60 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:45,280 yet, The Tech services team can help you on the way. 61 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,080 Because the MMS team is stacked with experience by 62 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,800 professionals. We can add value to your 63 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,920 operation or a deposit you know, waiting to be tapped. 64 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:54,800 And even better, they move super quickly, they can get creative 65 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,600 in designing the right solution to unlock the value that is 66 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,680 sitting in the ground for the Max upside for your mining 67 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,960 company mate. I've seen them do everything. 68 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,200 JD your normal mining services contract they get it done. 69 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,920 Does it require JDJV to be funded and share the risk? 70 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,560 They get it done. Is it just a standard load and 71 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,680 hold like contract get it done? Mate I don't think we need to 72 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,480 say anymore. Get in touch with the Super 73 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,440 experienced team at MMS and get a taste of what stress free 74 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,680 rewards taste like. Now Ian Purdy has is the parting 75 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,920 palate and this came out in in an announcement yesterday. 76 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,640 Very curious framing of the announcement. 77 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:35,840 It was it was like it was it was worded in a way that it made you 78 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,280 second guess. Hang on, he's as as he impaired, 79 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,840 he told the market and flagged in advance that he's leaving. 80 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,000 It was everything was about the appointment of this other guy. 81 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,080 You. Get the head scratcher right. 82 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,160 I saw some analysts sort of call it well, well, telegraphed or 83 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,200 words to that effect hadn't been sort of telegraphed so, so well 84 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,760 to us at least. And yeah, it sort of gets you 85 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,960 thinking, giving the given the nature of where this business is 86 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,680 AT and and the evolution. So Paul Hemborough is going to 87 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,800 step up, become managing director and CEO, always been 88 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,040 the CEOO since 2023. So he's got familiarity with 89 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,440 that, with the business, with the market. 90 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,000 Before that, he was at Rio Tinto for a long time as well as BHB, 91 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,959 had a good spell there. So I see Ian Perdy's going to 92 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,120 step down. He came into the business near 93 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:29,680 the beginning of 2020 when spot uranium was breaking through 30 94 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,760 bucks in that year. It was a very different 95 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,680 business. Obviously Langer Heinrich wasn't 96 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,520 even operational. They were talking about doing 97 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,400 PFS work on on the restart, so balance sheet needed. 98 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,960 Tidying up, I think they sold the the the non core project as 99 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,280 well. Yep, they sold Kayla Keira 100 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,840 within a month or so of him coming in. 101 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,880 And yeah, there's, there's been a fair bit to say the least, 102 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,760 that has happened through his tenure at the company. 103 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,280 But like you said, the wording of this one raises a bit of an 104 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:58,920 eyebrow and it's just worth chatting about and and getting 105 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,960 into a bit more I reckon. Why do you find it intriguing? 106 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,080 But for a couple of reasons, right let no doubt this, this 107 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,800 business is in a different position to what it was five 108 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,560 years ago. But there's been a lot of good 109 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,640 stuff and there's also been a couple question marks in the 110 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,680 last year or so. So to to name a couple that the 111 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,600 water shortage challenges last year, early last year. 112 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,080 The controversy around that merger with Fission? 113 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,880 Yeah, exactly that. That took a lot, a lot longer 114 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,480 than people who suspected it might. 115 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,800 You had, you know, all of a sudden too much water with the 116 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,160 the weather events earlier this year, you had reconciliation, 117 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,560 you know, question marks with the stockpiles there, class 118 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,000 actions following guidance being marked down and then guidance 119 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,520 being pulled entirely earlier this year. 120 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,320 So there's a few question marks on those points, but I think 121 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,720 it's quite simple, like a leader of a mining company sets down 122 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,480 during ramp up. And that's just one of those 123 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,480 check box items that makes you peel into it a bit more and just 124 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,280 to make sure everything's in order. 125 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:00,960 It's a pretty sort of straightforward, and it's not 126 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,120 always A cause for concern, but it's it's worth digging into. 127 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,520 Yeah, Yeah. Sometimes it can be explained 128 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,360 away, but it's yeah, one of those one of those things that 129 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,840 you see happen and, and, and maybe they're in a different 130 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:14,840 phase of ramp up, like they've been ramping up for a while. 131 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:16,720 But yeah, there's. Because it's a race that 132 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,880 project, you know, the it's not the the mind or gone through the 133 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:21,720 the plant just yet. So it's a bit of a different 134 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,520 based. Yeah, so tell me about the 135 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,960 wording in the announcement. Well, I feel like there seems to 136 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,200 be a bit of ambiguity. So taking a phrase planned and 137 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,280 rigorous succession process involving executive search 138 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:37,480 specialists, first question mark is like you, you know, you're 139 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,400 hiring search specialists, but you made an internal hire. 140 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,440 Now fair enough. Maybe you just want to vet the 141 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,400 field and make sure you've got the perfect candidate for the 142 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:47,680 job. But then you sort of dig in a 143 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:53,160 bit deeper and they sort of say an interim COO process has been 144 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,400 established within Paladin in the event that ACO transition 145 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,280 period is required. That seems to kind of contradict 146 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,440 the the planned approach that they mentioned just. 147 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,320 Before it's the, the wording interim. 148 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:08,200 Interim is something you've kind of put in place when there's an 149 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:09,320 unplanned thing that happened, yeah. 150 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:10,480 When things happen a bit more sudden. 151 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:15,000 Abruptly, yeah, which happens but but the but it kind of is 152 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,800 contrary to the well flagged and also the the planned wording 153 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,120 that we see in the other parts of the announcement and analysts 154 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,720 remarks since but but Peddie's not stepping away straight away. 155 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,560 He's hanging around until mid-december. 156 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,240 He's available. So there's a six month, quite a 157 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,120 lengthy notice period in there as opposed to living abruptly, 158 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,440 which is like a more more promising sign than it could be 159 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:36,720 the case. Yeah. 160 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,640 So, so Paul will become CEO from the beginning of September and 161 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,000 Perdia said he will remain there and that's sort of clear within 162 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,640 the the notice period, which can be activated by both himself or 163 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,160 or the company, but that would run until December given it's a 164 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,920 six month kind of period. And I think it's worth flagging 165 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,520 now like different CE OS suit companies at different stages. 166 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,400 And I think it's incredibly rare to have one CEO that is the the 167 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,520 perfect person to be the, the one that raises the capital and 168 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,360 does the exploration phase, you know, discovers a project. 169 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,920 If that's the type of company for, to developing an asset, for 170 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,280 to ramping it up and then managing it in steady state, I 171 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,000 think that's incredibly rare. And I think it's a justified 172 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,800 statement to say that you have different people with different 173 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,720 skill sets that are appropriate for managing a business at 174 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,880 different times. Added to that, I think it's 175 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,280 incredibly rare you get the perfect time for someone to step 176 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,960 down. Like, like, I mean, Jake Klein 177 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,559 recently, he's sort of stepping down at, at evolution seems to 178 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,280 be in kind of textbook. It's, it's gone too well. 179 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:44,680 You know, the gold price has ripped. 180 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,880 It's an opportune time. It's been there 15 years. 181 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,240 But in most cases, like you're putting fires out at one point 182 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,320 or another. So there's always going to kind 183 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,440 of be question marks, but I think I think it is pretty valid 184 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,600 to keep in mind that different people arrive for companies at 185 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,720 different times in in the company's life cycle. 186 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,360 I think that I think that argument is like, surely, yeah, 187 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:06,800 it's valid. But I feel like it's much more 188 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,840 valid when when you're talking about the kind of CEO who who 189 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,480 was in and around the mix in the discovery phase really proven, 190 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,320 proven it up and taking it through through those early 191 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,560 development stages. Yeah, and that is, that's a 192 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:21,320 general statement. Yeah, right. 193 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,720 That's not a specific comment on Paladin that I'm making there. 194 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,120 Yeah. And then you've got then you've 195 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,280 got the kind of like the operator or the, Yeah, the 196 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,160 established operator, the guy who knows how to run a mining 197 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,160 company. Paladin was. 198 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,680 Paladin was a built mine. This is a restart project now. 199 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,880 He had to do a lot in relation to the financing and also the 200 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,200 operational oversight to kind of get things going in a in a 201 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,800 country that's not Australia, obviously all those sorts of 202 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,760 things. He wasn't the exploration guy at 203 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,720 the time he was appointed in 2020. 204 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,280 Was the view that he would run the uranium mining company? 205 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,240 Yes, it probably was so. Yeah, the the, the person to do 206 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,120 the capital raising component and to to build, build hype 207 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,760 around a stock and get all that in. 208 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,520 I mean you could say that's kind of part of any CE OS mandate. 209 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:12,040 But I take your point. I also think 5 to 6 years like 210 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,520 that, it's not an out of the ordinary tenure running, 211 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,920 running, running a company. If you're going to play devil's 212 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,840 advocate in this instance and and see see that side of it, 213 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,560 it's a relatively standard tenure, yeah, for a business, 214 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:28,560 but. What, why? 215 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:31,640 So why is this like, like key? Are there examples that come to 216 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,760 mind and everything where you've seen ACEO depart during a 217 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,840 fragile period of a single asset developer Strand line. 218 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:37,720 Life strand line. Yeah. 219 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:38,720 Yeah. It's funny you mentioned that 220 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,320 one because that was the one that came to mind. 221 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,120 Because I know that you you've got this rule that if you see 222 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,320 it, you you'd like, you know, you would sell your stock 223 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,480 because it's information asymmetry in that instance. 224 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,440 Yeah, but he. But that that time the CEO, he 225 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,320 actually he was an MD, he stepped off the board initially 226 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,080 remained I think CEO for a brief period of time and a. 227 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,920 Brief moment in. Transitioned out of the company, 228 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,160 but the moment you saw you saw him step down in some capacity 229 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:06,640 and he sold. His shirt and by all accounts, 230 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,720 you know, in that case, the perfect person to build the 231 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,480 project got it done on budget throughout COVID, which was 232 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,800 incredibly hard, but they had a whole host of different 233 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,800 challenges that they were coming into. 234 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,120 And this was mineral sands. It's not, you know, 235 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,800 run-of-the-mill gold mining. So that that was caused for for 236 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,400 concern in that in that instance. 237 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:27,400 Yeah. Do you think, do you think there 238 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,440 are parallels to parallel or do you think it's quite different? 239 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,760 I would say the the alarm bell went off straight away again and 240 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,080 ramp up has been nowhere near as smooth as they wanted and it 241 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,800 never is. But I wouldn't say I'm, I'm well 242 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,920 versed enough with, with the intricacies of their mining 243 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,360 operation at Langhahanrish to, to completely comment. 244 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,120 But you want to be doing a lot of homework now if you're 245 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,120 holding the stock, like a lot of homework, not to mention what we 246 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,800 spoke about last week in the context of how these guys are 247 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,080 kind of valued given what they've got already and where 248 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,240 uranium prices are currently, I think you're paying for a bit of 249 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,280 upside like we said there. So that would make me all the 250 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,560 more cautious. Yeah. 251 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:11,960 And context matters as well, right? 252 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,520 Like in the case of Alan and like that they are facing, I 253 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,680 think it's two class action lawsuit. 254 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,520 The, the class action lawsuits, the way they get funded is the 255 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,320 that there's like this whole kind of litigation funding 256 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,400 dynamic, but in effect, you wouldn't see the class action, 257 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,160 at least the first one, get to where it is if the the 258 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,280 litigation funders hadn't already introduced. 259 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,320 There's a very good probability that this this is going to, you 260 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:39,560 know, they want to get paid real. 261 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,480 There's, there's, there's, it's not quite like maybe it's a home 262 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,680 run case, maybe it's not, but it's pretty, you know, it's a, 263 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,120 it's probably a very highly probable outcome that that, you 264 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:51,400 know, shareholders win in the class action. 265 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,000 At which point? Quick as well, right? 266 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,680 Yeah. And at which point in time, like 267 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,760 is it inevitable that the the CEO of the company at that point 268 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,800 in time has to step down as a result of the you know the 269 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,680 optics, the the pushback from proxy advisors, all that kind of 270 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:09,120 stuff? Like is it? 271 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,480 Is it maybe pre emptive in expectation of losing the class 272 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,160 action to? It could be, I don't know, but 273 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,000 that that would be a better explanation If you own the stock 274 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,680 than than you know something relating to information 275 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:21,760 asymmetry. Yeah, that wouldn't be bad. 276 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,080 Yeah, that that would and the stock went up, the stock went 277 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,520 up. So I think, I think the market 278 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:27,840 thought, you know, this is a good thing. 279 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,800 Exactly. Yeah, it'd be that class action 280 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,480 would be an interesting part of the the business to to follow 281 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,360 and and see where that kind of takes it. 282 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,400 Yeah, how about predictive? Right. 283 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,800 We've got a few question marks about predictive. 284 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,320 They came out with their DFS. So they obviously own the bank 285 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,080 hand project in Guinea of all places. 286 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,280 And I think we're curious to to ask a question, is there much 287 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,960 kind of meat left on the bone for investors at this stage? 288 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,560 And what and what is the next chapter of this takeover saga 289 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,600 that we saw start up with Percy is coming into the the company 290 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,120 and taking a stake sort of 2/3 of the way through last year. 291 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,920 So Yep, yeah, worth sharing a couple of the numbers. 292 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,160 And what are the what are the headline numbers that you saw on 293 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,320 the study? So 250,000 oz per annum is the 294 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,520 production guide for 12 years of mine life at an all in 295 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,960 sustaining cost the bit over 1000 US an ounce. 296 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,160 The reserve grade is close to 1.8g per ton, but the 297 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,040 underground is much closer to four and that will time with 298 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,760 that the mine plan we'll speak to in a second MPV 5 of 2.5 299 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:40,120 billion and an IRR of 46% using a 2400 gold price. 300 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,040 And the last detail I mentioned is that the CapEx is about US 301 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,400 $460 million there, big CapEx. But this is a quality mine when 302 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,120 it's going, there's no doubt. Yeah, exactly. 303 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,920 So if if we compare and contrast the PFS which came out in early 304 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:01,120 2024 with the DFS, there's a few different details to highlight 305 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,080 and there's a bit of a difference approach. 306 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,280 And we sort of show on screen now what a bit of this looks 307 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,320 like. So they're going for a smaller 308 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,960 Neb pit and that is saying the strip ratio reduced pretty 309 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:19,160 significantly from 4.6 to 1 to 1.9 to 1. 310 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,080 So it's a much smaller pit with this steeper pit walls. 311 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,920 But what they're going to do is they're going to attack the 312 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,000 underground much earlier. They're going to go at it from 313 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,120 the GBE pit and they're going to start this whilst they are 314 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,240 constructing the plant. So by the time the plant is good 315 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,880 to go at sort of year 0, if you like, they've already developed 316 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,520 out the decline to that high grade part of the ore body. 317 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,480 And that they can just be underground mining contributing 318 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,960 what they sort of call at least 25% of fresh ore from the 319 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,160 beginning. So it's a, it's quite a 320 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,680 different approach and it'll make sense if you sort of look 321 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,120 at the the graphics that we're we're showing. 322 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,960 But there's a few other differences in approach as well. 323 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,840 They've gone for slightly smaller throughput. 324 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,560 So instead of 5.5, they've gone for 4.5 million tons per annum. 325 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,080 And they've also seen the grade increase. 326 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,960 So that's gone from kind of close to 1.6 to 1.8. 327 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,440 And the overall output is down 20,000 oz per annum. 328 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,880 But they're mining that at a more competitive cost. 329 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:27,080 So ultimately, you see in the financials, the MPV up 140% from 330 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,360 the PFS, which is a substantial lift. 331 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,360 And as anyone listening to this would know, the gold price has 332 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,720 been on a tear. So they have factored in a gold 333 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,040 price that is 600 US bucks higher than what they'd assumed 334 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,480 previously. So all that in the context of 335 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,280 the CapEx staying pretty steady? They yeah, those are those are 336 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:45,440 those are certainly really tidy numbers. 337 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,200 This is going to be like a phenomenal mine. 338 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,240 And the visuals are awesome too that really help you kind of 339 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,560 contextualize it. And they changed the macro 340 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,480 assumptions there, including the gold price. 341 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,640 I just wish they had have changed the discount rate too. 342 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,720 Kudos. The same day that came out, 343 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:04,480 Astral put out their own study on on what's PFS and like big 344 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,880 props to them. They put a sensible 8% discount 345 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,560 rate on a, you know, a goldfields kind of single asset 346 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,680 gold project. It's, you know, that's that's 347 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,319 much more reflective of of what should be in these study 348 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,200 numbers. I'm starting a petition like and 349 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,599 and this, you know, predictors in Guinea and the argument is, 350 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:22,760 well, everyone else does it. You're going to get comped 351 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,839 everyone else. So you have to use, you have to 352 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,400 use MPV 5%. Not anymore mate, starting 353 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,920 petition. But I don't care if you're in 354 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,800 Goldfields or Guinea and PV eights. 355 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,680 Let's just start with that. Hard to argue with that if you 356 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,560 are going to get in the the PDI campus. 357 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,880 Astral here to cause a bit of a bit of conflict. 358 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,920 I think they're using a a decently lower gold price 359 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,600 assumption. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. 360 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,200 You are 100% right on that front. 361 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,000 Yeah, I thought the astral numbers are tidy as well. 362 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,320 Close to 100,000 oz per annum operation. 363 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,080 Yeah, that's. That's shaping up to be like a 364 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,560 very financial project, there's no doubt. 365 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,760 Yeah, 13 years of mining on a 19 year life, as as they put it. 366 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:00,960 It's an interesting one to follow. 367 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:01,960 Hey. Yep, Yep. 368 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,360 But refresh me on the latest kind of corporate stuff going on 369 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,040 with Predictive. I mean, Perseus obviously picked 370 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,080 up that stack from Capital Drilling now then then we saw 371 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,200 Zijin and Lundin actually enter. The cap structure, not montage. 372 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,680 Yeah. So Perseus went and took a 14% 373 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,280 state mid 2024. Within a month or so, they 374 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,600 stepped that up to almost 20%. At that point, everyone kind of 375 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,040 thinks, you know, they've got their foot on this. 376 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,080 And they did it kind of interestingly because the stock 377 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,200 had traded up to nearly 30 cents, dipped briefly, and they 378 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,360 scooped up their stake at closer to $0.20. 379 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:36,240 And then it bounces right back up. 380 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:43,320 So subsequently, in February of this year, we see Lundin and 381 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,680 Zijin take a cumulative 10% mistake. 382 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:52,520 Now they invested $69 million at 26 and a half cents and the 383 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,080 stock just ripped pretty much. So this dilution took Perseus 384 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,240 below 18% and all of a sudden you've got a company that's kept 385 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,960 closer to a billion dollars as opposed to the whatever 6 or 386 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,680 $700 million that had been prior. 387 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,920 So it jumps up more than 30% and it's traded at that elevated 388 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,800 level since. So kind of between 35 and 45 ish 389 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,040 cents for the last six months. That's that's the playing field 390 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,640 set right there. Competitive. 391 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,240 It is, it is. And obviously Jeff who we had on 392 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,560 the show around that time, he and the team at Percy's were 393 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,520 were less than impressed with how things had kind of played 394 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,960 out and more to the point that the valuation that the company 395 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,840 was trading at and it's attractiveness given the the 396 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,720 CapEx that then would need to be spent. 397 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,000 So they were. Sure, he was unimpressed without 398 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,040 played out. I think he was just, he was just 399 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,040 trying to make us a point on. Like valuation on valuation, 400 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,040 yeah, yeah. So framing it as a kind of 401 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,440 billion dollars plus maybe another 30% to take it out plus 402 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:59,320 700 Aussie means your $2 billion in in the hole and you need to 403 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,680 make a lot of money and do a lot of mining to earn that back. 404 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,400 So they're sitting on a. You have to. 405 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,640 Start shooting a gold price that's yeah, north of maybe your 406 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,600 internal deck is. And is that a sensible or 407 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:12,760 prudent thing to do? Yeah. 408 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,560 And and what is the payback kind of period given the the 409 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,680 volatility in political stability in in country as well. 410 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,440 But there's just now sit on a decent little hyper profit that 411 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,480 they can cash in should that time come. 412 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,160 But that's how things kind of stand. 413 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,600 And I think it's interesting to, to quickly actually have a chat 414 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,280 about Guinea and understand where they're at because they've 415 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,480 been seeing a lot of changes, right? 416 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,400 What's changing? So you, you remember just a 417 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,760 couple weeks ago, maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago now, we saw hundred 418 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,800 22150 tenements be pulled by the government. 419 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,320 Now there was, there was varying views, predictive work swept up 420 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,160 in this. So they had their Argo and 421 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,960 Bokoro, which weren't really going to play a substantial role 422 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,640 in this, but they, they got pulled off them essentially. 423 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:02,920 And there was sort of question mark. 424 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,560 So some people who operate in countries said some of the some 425 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,080 of the revocation of permits was warranted. 426 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,280 You know, people hadn't held it up their end of the bargain. 427 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,120 Other people didn't agree with that so much. 428 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,240 But if you look at what these guys have factored into the DFS, 429 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,360 you've got 6% on royalties going at the door, you got a 30% tax 430 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,560 rate assumed and you've got a 15% free carried interest. 431 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,440 So they are yet to receive those final permits, but that that's 432 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:39,400 the the, the distribution that they have factored into their 433 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,920 modeling. And yeah, when when you sort of 434 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,480 comparable out that's on par with a lot of West Africa and 435 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,320 remains to be seen whether that gets the the all clear, but 436 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,080 that's sort of in line with the recent mining code. 437 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,120 So the billion dollar question is who? 438 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:54,720 Who gets the chocolates at the end of all this? 439 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,200 An alternate party coming in and taking it out. 440 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,080 As you know it's complicated given the big stakes we we see 441 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,360 there, but one interesting name to throw in the ring just to 442 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:08,560 talk about in general really is London gold. 443 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,360 They now kept at 19 billion Aussie, they have run over 120% 444 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,480 year to date and they got Newmont on the register with 32% 445 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,360 of the business there. You ever? 446 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,880 Seen you ever seen a valuation like that for a single asset 447 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,240 operation? I don't know if I. 448 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,080 Have I I not saying one that comes to mind it. 449 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,880 Probably is, but someone else We're on Roads Ridge. 450 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,720 Different base. They have executed really well 451 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,120 in Ecuador to to put it simply, they're now sitting with US 450 452 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,240 million in net cash. They did 170 million in free 453 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,080 cash in 1/4. They're paying dividends and I 454 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,720 think it's pretty marvelous execution given the the tough 455 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:49,920 jurisdiction. You know, there were a lot of 456 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,000 question marks when when they went in there and started 457 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,240 building router del military and they've they've done a great 458 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,920 job. Tremendous job, took a long term 459 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,160 for you, like we're on side with the government and like a 460 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,120 reaping the rewards of it, yeah. But they are still a $19 billion 461 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:07,760 business with an asset in, well a single asset in, in Ecuador. 462 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,440 And valuation aside, I'm, I'm super impressed. 463 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,920 But I'm curious if they are looking, they've spoken very 464 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,520 much about an exploration focus and capital returns, you know, 465 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,920 dividends and, and, and the like that they're going to start 466 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,040 paying out. And I guess I have more question 467 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,680 marks about that state sitting within the Lundeen family, how 468 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,080 they think about it. They sort of famously have 25 to 469 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:34,720 30% stakes in a lot of companies and their MO has not been taking 470 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,960 out companies at this stage. It's it's often been a lot 471 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,240 earlier stage than this. So I don't know how they would 472 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,760 think about it and I'd be very curious to explore that, but. 473 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:50,240 I don't think the I think London gold would be the vehicle to to 474 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,320 embark in in West Africa for for the London. 475 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,360 So I imagine that that might maintain a very kind of its own 476 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,320 thing, South American focus. I think you'd be right. 477 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,640 I think it becomes a different base and they've got a host of 478 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,600 vehicles as well as spinning up new ones. 479 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,560 Seeing the seeing the the simultaneous placement from 480 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,520 London family and and and Zejin at the same time into into 481 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,320 predictive, I think was probably more telling if the London's 482 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,200 like a horse that they're backing from a from a company 483 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,080 perspective on their W African gold endeavours. 484 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,760 And that's montage, yeah. You've got the inside line to 485 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,080 Zejan as well, so. Well, that's that's the other 486 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,320 curious thing, right? If you've got both both Lundin 487 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:40,280 family and Zejan backing montage like normally you, you one of 488 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,200 the things that kind of kills the competitive spirit in MNA in 489 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,840 in mining is the fact that No2 Chinese parties have a bid 490 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,640 against each other. They always there's just this 491 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,600 implicit understanding that, you know, we're we're we're gonna 492 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,080 like one of us will get it, but it's but both not gonna get into 493 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,040 a bidding wall. Yeah, that kind of sucks. 494 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,720 And now you've got, you've got the like removing the Londones 495 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,040 from from the potential of the a competitive bidding outcome as 496 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,040 well, because they're, you know, they're on side with Zijin and 497 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,080 this vehicle anyway. Maybe the Russians will come, 498 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:11,080 not go to operate, but that would be an incredibly complex, 499 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,280 yeah, proposition given, given where we're at. 500 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,200 But yeah, I mean, Zijin made a big splash buying AKM not too 501 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,440 long ago. It was a big transaction. 502 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,720 So we'll see what what their approach is going forward. 503 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,200 But yeah, I mean, I wonder given the the road ahead that 504 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,280 predictive has in wanting to start construction early next 505 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,320 year, does a perspective buyer just let them start marching 506 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,360 down that that lonesome road and be there when they perhaps 507 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:44,960 stumble or come into challenges? Do they get creative and provide 508 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,600 some sort of financing to get their way in the in the door? 509 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,960 You know, lots of different shapes and sizes that could take 510 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,520 but. Key catalyst here is, and I 511 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,440 think it's the end of this calendar year, that's when 512 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,000 you've got the at the moment you've Percy submitted a full 513 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,240 change of control. They have to 50% share that 514 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,240 upside with Capital Drilling who they bought their stake off by 515 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,920 the end of the year. Capital Drilling is no longer 516 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,800 entitled to that extra 50%. So, you know, Percy's would save 517 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,840 money, but but having said that, do you think that like Percy's 518 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,120 will be sensible and and not kind of pay overs and they might 519 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:25,760 actually be quite willing to sell their stake to to Lundine 520 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,920 and Zijan jointly or more more likely, in my opinion, montage 521 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,200 because I just, I just interpreted that as like a 522 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,640 montage stake more than anything. 523 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,560 Yeah, or or or throw this one out there, Montage and Percy's 524 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,360 merger, then then take over predictive. 525 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,120 That'd really take the competitive attention out of the 526 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:46,880 process, but it would be, yeah, it'd be interesting. 527 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,920 I mean, the big next step for predictive is to get the 528 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,920 exploitation permit that comes through there, you know, on the 529 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,720 cusp of them to sort financing and find their way to developing 530 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,360 the asset. But yeah, a lot on the table. 531 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:05,880 I, I'm aligned with your thinking on Perseus being been 532 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,400 conservative in, in approaching M&A. 533 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,760 They've, they've got a lot to spend. 534 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,960 They've got to develop Nyang Saga as well. 535 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,280 And yeah, I, I can't see them at this sort of valuation coming 536 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,920 in, but we'll, we'll see what happens. 537 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,880 It's, it's pretty tricky to be competitive versus like Chinese 538 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,160 capital to for the number of reasons we've already talked 539 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,320 about, not least of which they take a strategic view as opposed 540 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,960 to like having to back out an MPV using a rational gold price 541 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,680 or anything like that. So, yeah, it could, it could, it 542 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,040 just could go that way. That's OK. 543 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,120 PCs will make money. Pretty sure shareholders will 544 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:42,160 make money. The Chinese will build a mine 545 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,280 like happy days. But yeah, yeah, I think more 546 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,880 important thing is just be sensible, like from a capital 547 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,520 allocation perspective when like in these times, there's a gold 548 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,680 miner as well, because it's, it's this is like a window. 549 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,680 Everyone's making good money now all of a sudden the the 550 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,640 valuations of the development opportunities have come up a lot 551 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,880 even in West Africa where they were not a lot like just 12 552 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,280 months ago. So that's, that's going to be a 553 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,480 big differentiator between yeah, the gold miners like in 12 554 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,280 months time. This is now is how they were 555 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,600 thoughtful about a creative opportunities to use their 556 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,400 capital right now when valuations are are elevated. 557 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,120 Yeah, a lot of the London family will be, you know very closely 558 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:31,720 familiar with with red back in West Africa and the kind of 559 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,360 absurd valuation they received in selling that out in the last 560 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:38,960 bull market cycle. I mean they did that a bit 561 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,080 before it sort of happened like 2010 ish time frame is it? 562 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,280 The more tiny one. Had Yeah, Tasira. 563 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,240 And Tasira. Yeah. 564 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,680 Saltikinros. Yes, Saltikinros and that was a 565 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,920 $7.7 billion transaction. They all made a multi the. 566 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,680 Landings did. Or they were part of that 567 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,320 vehicle gotcha and isn't? That funny because. 568 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:02,880 Kinross paid the price. Kinross. 569 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,720 Kinross then had to. Well, wasn't that Kinross that 570 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,960 sold through to Del Norte to the London Gold? 571 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:10,920 A bit later on. As a probably as a result of 572 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,840 that, Patras thank Kinross twice. 573 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,640 I didn't. I actually didn't know that. 574 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,080 Yeah. So it's it's interesting and I'm 575 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,160 completely with you there. Like this is the time where you 576 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,960 want to see these gold. He's just piling up cash. 577 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,040 You don't want to see anyone blowing their brains out on M&A, 578 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,320 not the PDI shareholders will want to hear that, but they want 579 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,760 to stay disciplined and and you know fill up the bank account in 580 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,200 the good times and deploy it in the in the bad times. 581 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,400 Wow. But we should mention a couple 582 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,560 other stories just quickly. Astrin and their JV partners 583 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:48,520 Energy Fuels have received the approvals for what there is the 584 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,440 working plan for construction and operations. 585 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,400 So they have the Donald Rare Earth and Mineral Sands project 586 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,240 in in the state of Victoria, which isn't known for handing 587 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,160 out mining permits so easily. And yeah, they're off to get 588 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,720 sort of financing sorted now and get their ducks in a row there. 589 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,320 But is that final? Approval or is this still? 590 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,000 Yep, final approval, final major regulatory. 591 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,800 Approval, right? Yeah. 592 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,520 Stock rocketed up sort of 47% yesterday and another 10% today. 593 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,440 So, yeah, I'm really curious to see how that goes. 594 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,000 And it's good in a way there's been a more constructive outlook 595 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,080 on the value add in in regional towns there that well potential 596 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,480 operation could play. Isn't this isn't this kind of 597 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,560 curious? The two the two payments in 598 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,400 Victoria have been the first payments in party forever. 599 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,480 Is that VHMS, Gaussian and now this? 600 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,080 Are those like mineral sands projects? 601 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,000 Like Gaussian will argue they're a rare earth project too, but. 602 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,480 And how weird is that? Strategic matter. 603 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,200 It's strategic. So like the amount of like land 604 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,760 you actually have to disturb on a mineral science project is 605 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,760 like vastly greater than you would a normal mine, but the 606 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,080 Victorians somehow are more comfortable with that than they 607 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,440 are just allowing a normal mine anyway. 608 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,800 Don't understand Victorians? It's an interesting one. 609 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,720 And the last thing to mention, another quick story here, 610 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,160 Wildcat, they have seen their market cap fall pretty 611 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,160 dramatically to $190 million. They have $60 million in the 612 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,000 bank and this is not something you say everyday they're doing a 613 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,720 buyback 5,000,000 bucks worth. So back in themselves, back in 614 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,360 the value that Taba Taba has and. 615 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,880 Unusual circumstances. They're they're, they're trying 616 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:35,840 to say they're cheap. Yeah. 617 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,800 Yeah, they're signalling to the market and had a little bounce 618 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,640 on the back of it, but. They've still got plenty in the 619 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,720 bank and they're on go slow mode right now, so they're not at 620 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,800 risk of regretting using the cash for the buyback in the near 621 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:48,400 term. Yeah, it wouldn't. 622 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:49,800 Look, good. If you had to do a raise, you 623 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,720 have a lower price later on. Yeah, but a lot that they've 624 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,040 backed themselves into this one. So we'll see what happens. 625 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,600 Lithium price is at a real low ebb and doesn't seem to be 626 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,240 changing, but maybe we'll see a couple cracks come through in 627 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,640 the near term future and we'll be off to the races again. 628 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,080 Couple of partners to thank mate. 629 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,800 Thank you to Mineral Mining Services, Grounded sand, Big 630 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,840 ground support, K Drew and Cross Boundary Energy. 631 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:15,320 Voodoo. Voodoo. 632 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,360 Now remember, I'm an idiot. JD is an idiot. 633 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,800 If you thought any of this was anything other than 634 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,480 entertainment, you're an idiot and you need to read out a 635 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:24,960 disclaimer.