1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,160 I've even adjusted, you know, for currency to be fair, this is 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,240 like for like basis total shareholder return. 3 00:00:05,560 --> 00:00:07,200 So it accounts for dividends, those sorts of things. 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:12,520 Over the last 10 years, Z gin plus 679% like years away from 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,760 the entire pack. And in second place, this is how 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,560 far away 2nd place is. Farley lost 372. 7 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,640 Percent rhino money waters we're going to we're going to China, 8 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,800 we're going to North America today we're going to you boys 9 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,280 are covering a couple of big dogs that are big and warrant of 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:30,600 discussion. Behemoth. 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,520 Behemoth in the mining world that we just haven't haven't 12 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,840 really unpacked until today. But we're gonna be the wiser for 13 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,200 it. Thank God for you too, because 14 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,320 I'd never look at those two in detail. 15 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,920 It's just I'll just assume they're good, but we're not. 16 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,120 Look forward. To this we're not gonna neglect 17 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,800 the WA mining community either. Oh, mate, there's made a, 18 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,800 there's made a share price plummet and we're gonna go in to 19 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,440 see what the Hell's going on. Oh, let's do it. 20 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:55,840 Of course I'll freaking own it too. 21 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,440 So tell you what mate, tell you what's going to bloody lift me 22 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,000 spirits from a share price decline? 23 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,080 The GRX Conference, the Global Resources Innovation Expo, It is 24 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,360 coming up 20th to 22nd of May in Brisbane at the Convention 25 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,560 Centre. It's hosted by Osman in 26 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,000 partnership with OSIM. What is it? 27 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,920 It is the absolute nucleus of mining tech innovation. 28 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,320 What the future of the mining industry is going to look like. 29 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:29,240 You're going to have 150 exhibitors showing you 30 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,600 everything and it is going to look cool. 31 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,160 Have a look at this is this is look at those photos, look at 32 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,280 those tech discussions in action. 33 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,200 You are going to see shit loads of these. 34 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,240 Look at these two. That is a highly engaged 35 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,920 discussion about the future of the mining industry. 36 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,480 And mate, tell you what? Conference is a portal to the 37 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,040 future of mining. Oh mate. 38 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,040 Good pun there. Good pun. 39 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,520 It gets better though, Maddie. Why does it get better? 40 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,160 For money mind listeners. Mate I love saying the word 41 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:03,360 exclusive. Exclusive discount via US 190 42 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,240 bucks off. The standard rate for members. 43 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,720 160 bucks off if you're not a member, which means look, it's 44 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,440 worth the extra 30 bucks discount to become a member. 45 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,400 Follow the links in the show notes. 46 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,680 This conference is bloody going to be unreal. 47 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:21,120 You got to get there. Go to Bruce Vegas, see what the 48 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,520 future of mining is going to look like and oh, just. 49 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:25,560 I'm up. What's it? 50 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,520 Like Rusty and Bryce should go, yeah. 51 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:28,960 Yeah, yeah, I'm. Sure they will. 52 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,320 They will. Probably keynotes. 53 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,280 Bryce is probably gone. Keynote speakers, yeah. 100%. 54 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,120 I reckon if we could get the JRX logo on Rusty's nails, that'd be 55 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:40,960 the guy. That'd be the perfect marketing 56 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,480 material. All right, let's get into it. 57 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,840 What do we got? Take it away, Trev. 58 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,200 Which Chinese company are we talking about today? 59 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,280 The mighty Zigin. Mighty not not BYD, not BYD, no. 60 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,240 Yeah, I would call him a miner, but we do talk about him a bit. 61 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,920 But mate, Zigin is a massive mining company and it and it you 62 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:02,160 know, it, it takes a bit for us to understand that, I think. 63 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,320 And yeah, upfront I think I'm admitting that that I'm probably 64 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,720 going to be be be wrong or a little bit, a little bit off on 65 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,440 some of my takes about decision because up until today, frankly, 66 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,840 I haven't done the work to try and understand this company, but 67 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,320 it absolutely warrants that it's massive. 68 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,640 They have growing influence literally fucking everywhere in 69 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,520 all the commodities that that matter. 70 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,640 And it's a company that has grown enormously over the last 71 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:28,920 decade to kind of conceptualize just how rapidly this mining 72 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,720 company has grown. In 2014, they produce 1.1 73 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,600 million ounces of gold, 10 years later, 20242.35 million ounces 74 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,240 of gold, so more than double the gold production. 75 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,000 In 2014, they produced 138,000 tonnes of copper. 2024 they 76 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,240 produced 1.08 million tonnes of copper. 77 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,400 Like that is just enormous copper growth when yeah, when 78 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,400 every, every, every, everyone's been trying to grow copper. 79 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,280 They've just excited that. Far out. 80 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,800 I think I'll I'll let you get to it, but I'll assume where a lot 81 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,200 of that's come from. Kamala. 82 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,280 Yeah, yeah. Amongst others, yeah, No other 83 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,800 major has, has, has come close to generating the sort of 84 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,600 shareholder returns along that same growth journey at that XI 85 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,120 Jin has over the last decade. Keep in mind this is a Chinese 86 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,840 company listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange in a, in a, in a 87 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,640 decade where capital markets have been very punitive towards 88 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,720 Chinese equities, they've been, if you look at any performance 89 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,080 of Chinese equities over the last decade versus Western 90 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,320 equities like atrocious returns. So, you know, but what I've done 91 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,760 here, I, I'm actually comparing XI Jin, who, who is amid that 92 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,400 kind of capital pool, compare their 10 year total shareholder 93 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,080 returns with the majors, BHP, Rio Tinto, Glencore, Anglo 94 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,200 American Valet. I've even adjusted, you know, 95 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,760 for currency to be fair, this is like for like basis total 96 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,840 shareholder return. So it accounts for dividends, 97 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:47,600 those sorts of things. Over the last 10 years, Z gin 98 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:52,280 plus 679% like he is away from the entire pack and in second 99 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:53,960 place. This is how far away. 2nd place 100 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,520 is Valet plus 372%. It's not a time frame thing 101 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,160 right? I I haven't just cherry picked a 102 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,080 time frame. Here's the last five years. 103 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,240 See Gin plus 592%. Second place is Glencore Miles 104 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,680 Away plus 192%. Oh, and that's bloody 105 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,520 considering Glencore in the last month or two, it's like 280 last 106 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:12,000 night. Yeah. 107 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,440 It's like they're just, yeah, yeah. 108 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,920 Here's the last three years, right, a different time frame, 109 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,160 CGN plus 51% in first place. Second place, BHP miles away 110 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,200 down 1% is that, you know, coming off the back of elevated 111 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,840 commodity prices back in 2022. Here's the last one year, CGN 112 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:33,920 plus 11%. Second place is Anglo, who keep 113 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,680 in mind in that last 12 months received a buddy, a bid from BHP 114 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,200 up 8%. So on every single time frame, 115 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,800 no matter which one you use, the relative performance of the 116 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,200 others, the pack always changes. It's a different company in 117 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,760 second place. But the constant on every single 118 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,360 one of those time frames, Z Gin has outperformed the rest. 119 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,440 And well, I just find that utterly fascinating. 120 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,840 So I, you know, I've tried to spend some time today to to 121 00:05:54,840 --> 00:06:00,160 understand how Z Gin has such an edge over the Western incumbents 122 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,840 that has seen it compounding at a vastly higher rate on every 123 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:06,560 single time frame. And that and that total return 124 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,560 that takes it for BHP Raya, that takes into account the dividends 125 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:10,960 as well. Exactly, exactly. 126 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,760 Reinvest dividends. Yeah, yeah. 127 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:14,880 Yeah, let's let's crack into to why. 128 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,280 Mate, this is super, super interesting. 129 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:19,160 I think you framed it well and there's some really, really 130 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,480 important reasons why to understand like and put it into 131 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,560 context, I reckon. I got secret sauce and I I think 132 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:32,480 I can pin it down to, to to 55 areas that, you know, Z gin, but 133 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,560 that gives it gives Z gin a like a massive edge that like 134 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,960 honestly, I don't think is it's an egg, an edge that is not 135 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,200 replicable by, by any western mind. 136 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,400 And those reasons are number one. 137 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,200 Zijin has a cost structure that is vastly lower than its Western 138 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,040 peers #2 Zijin's cost of capital is so much lower than any of its 139 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,400 peers thanks to its access to China state owned bank debt at, 140 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,920 you know, very low cost #3 Zijin has an envious track record of 141 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,400 aggressive, shrewd and bold acquisitions while remaining 142 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,800 tremendously disciplined on the price that they pay #4 Zijin's 143 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,680 geopolitical positioning has enabled it to go where Western 144 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,880 miners hesitate to conduct business, and they do it in a 145 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,000 way that Western miners probably can't. 146 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,200 And #5 capital allocation of Zigene has really prioritized 147 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,200 reinvesting for more production growth as opposed to capital 148 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,360 returns to shareholders that we've seen other Western miners 149 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,680 participate in. Yeah, for sure. 150 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,920 Let's unpack that cost structure one, because that's maybe the 151 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:34,320 most important. I mean, they're all, they're all 152 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,640 pretty important, but that one's like kind of, you know, once you 153 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,320 kind of see it, you can't Unsee it in a way. 154 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,840 There's so much to, to, to this. And, and, but if you, if you 155 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,360 think about a mining company, just like conceptually think of 156 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,560 a mining company, they can't control the commodity price, 157 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:49,760 right? They're, they're, they're price 158 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,200 takers. They can't control commodity 159 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:52,760 price. They, they can to an extent 160 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,720 control their production units. And you know, it requires 161 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,200 expectations and skill to do that. 162 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,960 And they absolutely can control their costs. 163 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,480 So I can't emphasize enough how important it is for a for a 164 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,480 major mining company to manage their costs. 165 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,160 In the case of Zijin, I think their cost structure is a, is a 166 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,680 true competitive advantage enabled by the fact that A, they 167 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,640 have their own in house engineering team to design, 168 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,880 build and expand projects. They avoid, you know, third 169 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,520 party ABC contractors and then the margins that come with it 170 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,520 clearly, you know, like like disappear. 171 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,960 So they, they can move much faster as a result of that as 172 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,640 well. B, they have access to the 173 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,400 entire Chinese supply chain. They source most equipment, 174 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,559 material services primarily from domestic suppliers who are right 175 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,559 on their doorstep, doorstep. C, lean overhead, unlike Rio 176 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,679 Tinto or BHP or Anglo, etcetera, all the rest. 177 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,680 But they all have enormous corporate overheads, right? 178 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:48,080 Teams on teams on teams that do nothing productive. 179 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,080 Z jeans lean right. They run a flatter structure 180 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,040 with centralized control and lower corporate costs. 181 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,120 In fact, it's it's it's got it's major shareholder is the 182 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,200 provincial government and they really discourage corporate 183 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,400 bloat. D this is a big one project 184 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,840 location arbitrage Sijin has prioritised countries with low 185 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,520 wage costs and permissive regulatory regimes, think DRC, 186 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,520 Serbia, Colombia. Western peers have been, you 187 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,880 know, constrained by the ESG investors or, you know, or the 188 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,400 permitting dynamics in Tier 1 jurisdictions and they face 189 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,400 longer timelines with higher community and environmental 190 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,480 costs, both be it both value and timing. 191 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,080 And those locations have much much higher wages like these 192 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,680 FIFO workforces are not cheap. JD we were in the the the DRC we 193 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:41,520 visited at the Chinese on mine, not as a gene one, but they they 194 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,360 weren't there was no FIFO rosters there. 195 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,400 They were flying back to China once every six months, like. 196 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,760 Completely, completely different, right? 197 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,040 It's yeah, it's, it's mind blowing. 198 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,240 And like it can only kind of be done some of these things from a 199 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,560 kind of Chinese perspective or other kind of similar countries. 200 00:09:57,560 --> 00:09:59,920 Like you say, you just can't compete on a lot of those 201 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,480 numbers. And the cost discipline it, it 202 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,520 runs through the company in a way that I don't think others 203 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,360 come close to. Just when you hear the rhetoric 204 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,400 out of out of management, I'll just play an excerpt from the 205 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,000 latest results call that shows you how obsessed with cost 206 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,480 discipline this company is. This is this is English 207 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,040 translation audio over the over the top of the the call that 208 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,720 I'll play. So we have operations in five 209 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:29,240 continents and what we do is that we build a comprehensive 210 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,680 logistic and procurement network for our project across the world 211 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,960 in order to reduce our costs. And we have two concrete 212 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,880 measures. For example, we use open price 213 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,600 negotiation to buy some frequently used equipments, 214 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,040 which also help us to reduce procurement costs. 215 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,720 And we also take measures to control investment in 216 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,040 construction. We set up an overseas cost 217 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,520 settlement centre. It is responsible for managing 218 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,120 our prices and expenses early in the process overseas. 219 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:06,040 And we through this settlement center, we had put forward some 220 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,600 feasible plans which is quite helpful for us to improve our 221 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:11,200 construction investment management. 222 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,840 So we are we have managed to involve our management in 223 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,240 overseas construction investments early in the process 224 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,880 and we also continue to optimize our designs and engineering. 225 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,320 So basically, we have formed a very conducive cycle for cost 226 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,280 control. And we also have this kind of 227 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,520 full chain cost control measures. 228 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,160 We also look into some abnormal prices in our contracts. 229 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,760 Through this kind of management, we identify problems and lower 230 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,560 them. And 4th, we step up our 231 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,760 performance assessments regarding cost control. 232 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,600 We set clear targets and we also break them down into specific 233 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,960 tasks. And for major operations, we 234 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,800 also customize plans for their cost control. 235 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,880 And we also introduce a sharing system to in order to share our 236 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,160 best cost control prices among our operations. 237 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:05,840 And also we will be able to improve our performance in all 238 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,440 on all fronts. And we also introduce a reward 239 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,480 and panel gear system to ensure accountability and improve our 240 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,120 cost control results. So basically these effective 241 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,520 measures will be continued to roll out across our entire group 242 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,360 in order to further improve our cost control performance. 243 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,200 And also and also and also and also. 244 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:24,520 There were so many things there, right? 245 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:25,960 It sounds exciting. Yeah. 246 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,920 Yeah. It was a female show I show you. 247 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,800 Yeah, translator was pumped. Yes, yeah, yeah. 248 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:33,760 Yeah, that, that was fascinating, mate. 249 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,400 And that and that flies in the face of the the other ones, 250 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,720 right? Because this is something 251 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,480 Western companies can compete on. 252 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,320 And I just love that dedication to cost competitiveness. 253 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,240 That is, you know, that that's what really stands out in in any 254 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,120 sector, right? And mining's obviously no 255 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,000 different. It's perhaps even more amplified 256 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,800 because you're you're a price taker. 257 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,480 What A So what about their, I guess their M and A track record 258 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,520 and their, and you speak of geopolitical appetite. 259 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,520 We mentioned the Congo. They were obviously very heavily 260 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,480 involved in the AVZ saga, which was fascinating. 261 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,480 So yeah, yeah. Give us a rundown of that. 262 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,680 The two the 2GO hand in hand and you know, M and a geopolitical 263 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:16,360 appetite Zijin, they've undoubtedly leveraged global 264 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,960 diplomatic and financial reach to facilitate their expansion, 265 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,160 right. Many, many of its projects 266 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,600 aligned with China's belt and Rd. initiative or or national 267 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,120 resource security goals. They're their largest 268 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,480 shareholder is a provincial government effectively, in my 269 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,800 mind making Zeigen an extension of state policy. 270 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,240 This government alignment I think has provided access to to 271 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,680 State Bank funding support when investing abroad think host 272 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:46,160 countries often welcome Zijin's investment due to China's ties 273 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,160 or infrastructure deals in other parts of the country and 274 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,920 government backing. It also helps Zijin weather 275 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,080 risks in these jurisdictions in in developing countries, it can 276 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,480 negotiate like favourable tax or partnership terms and it often 277 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,840 partners, you know, with government owned enterprises or 278 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,160 or offers host government's equity stakes to to align those 279 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,560 interests. Just think about the deal of the 280 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,920 century. Zejin paid US $412 million for 281 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,280 half of Kamoa Kakula from Ivanhoe in 2015. 282 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,280 Friedland himself has literally called this the best deal ever 283 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:20,960 in mining. And you know, he was on the 284 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,400 selling side of that deal, right? 285 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,160 He's no mug in negotiations either. 286 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,160 So, you know, if it was more value to be had, I'm sure he 287 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:27,920 would have found a way to to get it. 288 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,720 But but Ivanhoe needed a gin and they they brought not only the 289 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:37,720 in house engineering capability, but also a pathway to finance 290 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,280 the mine too, but also a counterparty that has hasn't 291 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,320 managed to actually, you know, deal and negotiate and get 292 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,720 things moving in the DRC in a period of time when no western 293 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,160 miner was going anywhere near the DRC. 294 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,480 And that's probably the one of the most things that's 295 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,360 misunderstood about Z June and I'll acknowledge my ignorance is 296 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,000 that engineering capability that they're a a project builder, 297 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,360 which is and they don't think would be as well known. 298 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,280 And they can do it cheaper than anyone like you know, yeah, 299 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,120 they'll run their own numbers over, over an undeveloped 300 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,440 project and come up with their own CapEx, which is way lower 301 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,600 than the study of the the Western mind and put out for the 302 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,240 Western project. And and that can you know, kind 303 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,760 of support a case to pay, pay X dollars or or whatnot. 304 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:22,560 It's it's totally not appreciated. 305 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:27,320 Yeah, I, I think now a lot of people would be quite critical 306 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,040 of Zegin in the way their geopolitical influence may have, 307 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,720 you know, let them achieve outcomes that are unobtainable 308 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,960 to, to Western minors. And those critics probably have 309 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,160 a damn good reason for their criticism, too. 310 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,360 Just ask any AVZ shareholder what they think of Zegin mining. 311 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,320 You'll be, you'll be, you'll be having that conversation for 15 312 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,120 minutes and not one positive word will be said. 313 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,960 And I've no doubt that Zegins, you know, achievements in some 314 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,800 of the spicy jurisdictions have been facilitated in part by are 315 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,920 doing things that no Western company can do. 316 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,120 And yeah, also I wanted to convey how Zegin is also 317 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,880 tremendously disciplined though, when it when it comes to deal 318 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:05,040 making. Can you can you guys think of a 319 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,840 single deal where Zegin has been known to have overpaid for an 320 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,000 asset or a company? Can't think of one, right? 321 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,560 How many, how many, how many major miners can you? 322 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,760 Can you say that about like you just can't every like at some 323 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,640 point in time in some companies history, some management team 324 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,760 and it happens relatively often, they get very excited or too 325 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,160 excited about 1 certain opportunity. 326 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,520 They pay too much and it's a disaster. 327 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,120 But I can't, I can't say I can't think of that as it relates to 328 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,800 to Zijin and I just to capture, you know, that part of the DNAI 329 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,280 did just want to play a snippet from Chairman Chen talking about 330 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,120 MNA in the current environment. This is a quote from less than 331 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,520 two weeks ago. Want to say is that even with 332 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,360 such high prices, there are also there are still some good offers 333 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,680 available. So for a company if it does not 334 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:57,840 has any increase, then it won't be able to for the company to 335 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,440 achieve growth. So we will definitely continue 336 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,359 with our M and A strategy. The Zune has this feature which 337 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,560 is that we won't go for very expensive project, we won't bet 338 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,880 on just one projects at all costs. 339 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:19,800 For example, when we decided to enter the lithium markets, that 340 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,640 time lithium prices has been quite high, but we still 341 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,400 evaluate projects at the cost of 100,000 per tonne. 342 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,560 So this is our benchmark price internally. 343 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,000 Basically, it means that we will still remain prudent in our 344 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,200 investment strategy. So we have some considerations, 345 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,040 for example, in terms of the selection of minerals, we will 346 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,200 go with go for minerals that is optimistic in the future. 347 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,760 In in recent years, we prioritized copper because it's 348 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,120 critical to renewable energy. And also artificial 349 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:56,680 intelligence, the application of AI also consumes a lot of 350 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,080 electricity and geopolitical factors are having greater 351 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,040 impacts. Almost all central banks across 352 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:08,480 the world are printing money. So money is cheap and that is 353 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,320 why we are seeing rising gold prices. 354 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,680 So GOAT is a very important target for us in our future M&A 355 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,360 activities. Gotta get Jim and Shannon the 356 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:20,280 translator on the show. That'll be a bloody. 357 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,760 Wouldn't it, wouldn't it, it would be a very, very 358 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,400 interesting, very interesting conversation I reckon, Maddie 359 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,400 Yeah, but like you can, you can hear the discipline there, 360 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,560 right? Like how many how many companies 361 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,080 were were running 100,000 CNY per ton lithium carbonate in 362 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,800 their long term price assumptions when when it got to 363 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,360 six times that, you know, Oh no, I certainly didn't. 364 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,560 What, what do you, what do you think is going to be some of 365 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,760 their next moves? Like if you're going to throw 366 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,600 some darts around, what are they? 367 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,840 Is it going to be heavily focused around copper? 368 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,000 They had a massive swing in, in lithium, yeah, relatively 369 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,440 massive, almost 2 billion U.S. dollar deal. 370 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,280 Yeah, Chinese lithium for for zangay. 371 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,240 Yeah, they've got that. He, he spoke after that quote. 372 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,520 You know how he's pretty happy with the, the quantity of, of 373 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:08,760 lithium resources that they have. 374 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,120 And I'm sure that, you know, they're, yeah, you know, they've 375 00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:14,640 got a view on the, the extent of the Monono deposit they'll be 376 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,040 able to bring online. They've also got Argentinian 377 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,960 brine which they're bringing online as well. 378 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,680 So there's, you know, they're, they're, they're quite 379 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,840 comfortable with their lithium deposits, but they're happy to 380 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,960 look at more gold said was a big priority. 381 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,400 I think gold is actually like high priority that copper based 382 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:29,880 on my interpretation of the translation. 383 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,120 I also think where they are going to like look for they 384 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:37,600 just, they just bought Newmontchem mining in, in Ghana, 385 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,640 by the way, paying a billion dollars for that. 386 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:44,720 And but I think they'll they'll find a lot of opportunities in, 387 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,880 in South America, you know, places like again, spicy 388 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,480 jurisdiction of Colombia, those those sorts of locations. 389 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,120 You know, I wouldn't be surprised to see, you know, a 390 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:56,480 lot more activity from from the likes of the gym in those parts 391 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,880 of the world. What about Ecuador? 392 00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,640 It's. Entirely possible. 393 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,160 Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. 394 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,640 Yeah. Mate, that's fascinating. 395 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,160 That is super, super interesting. 396 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,800 Obviously that with the the MNA aspect of it, they haven't been 397 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,640 around as as long in, in such scales, so very keen to see how 398 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,280 they do through the next cycles in in staying to that 399 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,160 discipline. But the track record is super 400 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,160 impressive. Yeah, it is. 401 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,560 And I mean they're, they're even in in Australia in like fire. 402 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,000 It's mostly owned subsidiary Norton Goldfields, which yeah 403 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,120 is, is a is a funny one, a bit of a head scratcher. 404 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,120 I think they've got a pretty high kind of cost, cost basis 405 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:35,520 that they, they run things out there. 406 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,400 But you know, have also shown a willingness to, to divest for 407 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,720 the first time in a, in a long time by way of selling bullet 408 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,680 bullying recently to to MI 6. So just, I'm paying more 409 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,480 attention to the gin. Yeah, paying a lot more 410 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,400 attention. And I I'm kind of convinced that 411 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,000 they do have a competitive advantage that Western miners 412 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,400 can't imitate based on, based on all the factors that I talked 413 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,040 about, for better or for worse. Very bloody good, very good, JD, 414 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,680 we're going. We're going international again. 415 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,800 We're heading to North America for you. 416 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,840 But before we do this, I have a bit of an itch to scratch that I 417 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,920 have not done. Please. 418 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:19,280 Done for a while check this out. ITSITSITS more ITS flying out 419 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,160 the door for KCI. It's bloody good to have them 420 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:23,880 back. And tell you what these IT 421 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,720 numbers have just grown since we've had them. 422 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:31,560 Where are they going to 38? IT 3-8 more coming in six months 423 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,800 and that is going to compliment the fricking underground AG 424 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,560 coming in the next month and the bloody underground charge wagon 425 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,360 coming in the next month mate. All available for hire. 426 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,200 A new grader on the way, mate, they're going to be an 427 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,440 underground operators. I cannot wait to see him. 428 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,440 It's great to have him back and they've even just amplified the 429 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,320 recruitment team. All your blue collar workers for 430 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,000 underground open pit civil construction, they're just mate. 431 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,880 Whenever in doubt in your life, what do you do? 432 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,720 Just call KCA. Yeah, call KCA. 433 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,200 Very simple. Great to have the team back. 434 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:14,200 How good is that? He's flying out the door, right, 435 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,000 JD? Where we go, North America. 436 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,320 This is a big humdinger of A use. 437 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,120 Love this company. Use love it. 438 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:21,040 Oh no use. Love it. 439 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,440 I do I've got I've got to sort of turn the volume up after 440 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,960 you've just done the ad again. So normal very good. 441 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,280 We're we're talking about Franco Nevada. 442 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,840 So they just had an investor day. 443 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,920 I'm not sure if you guys saw this one, but I thought it'd be 444 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,560 worthwhile just tuning in and trying to learn a bit from the, 445 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,480 the royalty behemoth that they are. 446 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,400 So I think everyone kind of knows their returns a first 447 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,120 rate, they're pretty stellar. Their share price performance 448 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:51,320 since since the IPO kind of knocks it out the park. 449 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,200 And I was, I was kind of curious to hear how they're thinking in 450 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,000 like a, a frothy precious metals market and some of the other 451 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,720 perspectives on, on debt on the market and sort of funding 452 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,240 structure more broadly from from juniors to to developers. 453 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,480 And yeah, I thought it'd be good just to chat with you lads about 454 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,040 about the big takeaways. I'm very curious mate, where 455 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,920 should we start? I've, I've sort of jotted down a 456 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,880 few points and it's actually interesting to, to look 457 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,200 afterwards. There's, there's a, a sort of 458 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,480 relation between all these points, which I think the money 459 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,160 miners will kind of notice as we go through. 460 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:29,680 But I'll start with how royalty funding has its sort of place 461 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,760 versus your, your traditional debt and equity sources. 462 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,040 And what you kind of take away from this is the, the time 463 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,640 frames when Franco in certain commodities will get really 464 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,200 active. So I'll play a snippet from the 465 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,360 CEO to to start us off. That we can provide capital to 466 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,560 the industry at a consistent cost. 467 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,080 There'll be times when debt is very cheap and then we can't 468 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,720 compete and, and, and we're happy not to compete on that 469 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,360 level. There are other times when when 470 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,840 debt is far more expensive and then we can compete. 471 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,840 So we prefer to think, you know, both when we're competing with 472 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,440 debt and and also with the equity markets that we're a 473 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,520 consistent cost of capital. The equity markets probably even 474 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,920 more open and shut than than the debt markets. 475 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,400 There. There there's some periods where 476 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,920 they they're wildly undervaluing assets and the other periods 477 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,320 where they're overvaluing it. So my, my interpretation came to 478 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,120 hear what you guys think, but that was just speaking to 479 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:28,520 discipline, like discipline, discipline, discipline through 480 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,560 the cycle. You've got to, you've got to 481 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,320 stick to it. You can't change your strategy 482 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,800 kind of halfway through. And he, he ended up following up 483 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,080 that bit there by sort of saying when people really need our 484 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,840 capital is when we get deals done. 485 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,000 And I just, I found that fascinating. 486 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,840 You guys can kind of chime in if you've got thoughts or we can 487 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,360 jump to the next one. I totally like that, that you 488 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,880 know what comes to mind when he said when people really need us? 489 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,320 I think I think of Sabanya late last year when they they did the 490 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,920 the stream, which was like, yeah, pretty, pretty onerous. 491 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,040 But it just kind of speaks to the value of a royalty company. 492 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,640 AB AB absolutely. And it's, it's, it's going to 493 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,720 tie and I've got, I've got more thoughts that I'll I'll sort of 494 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,480 piece into what you said as as we go, but I'll I'll speak to 495 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,720 their view on debt. And in simple terms, they avoid 496 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,400 it. It's, it's as simple as that. 497 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,720 The, the goal is to be the one with capital when you're in 498 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,320 those cycle troughs and some of the best deals that these guys 499 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,080 have done when other companies are distressed. 500 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,120 So thinking like Glencore 2015 sixteen, those sorts of deals 501 00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:36,680 that they do stand out and they make your money for years and 502 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,280 years and years afterwards. So they view not holding debt as 503 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,920 a competitive advantage in the business. 504 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,760 And it's, it's Berkshire esque and that is a, you know, kind of 505 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,040 the, the utmost compliment in my mind, but it's really how they 506 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,600 view the world. And they got asked this question 507 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,280 pretty early on or they actually spoke to it actually without 508 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,200 being asked because debt must be such a such a tantalizing 509 00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,920 prospect for a business like them, right? 510 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,160 And the idea that you could just spruce up your returns ever so 511 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:09,000 slightly year in, year out is, you know, super, super appealing 512 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,760 given that the profile of this business. 513 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:14,480 But they clearly acknowledge we are in one of the most cyclical 514 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,440 industries that exist. And they view that financial 515 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,960 flexibility and the ability to move quickly when it really, 516 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,840 really counts far exceeds the the ability or the the earnings 517 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,680 in the long term that you're going to get from a few extra 518 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,520 percentage points here and there. 519 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,800 So I'll play another snippet now. 520 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,520 The second is financial flexibility and it's how we 521 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,240 think about our balance sheet. A lot of folks say to us when 522 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,400 you lever up the company debt is a lower cost of capital, you can 523 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,960 get better returns that way. That's not our approach. 524 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,760 We put more importance on financial flexibility than we do 525 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,880 on cost of capital. What we found over time, the 526 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,800 industry is highly cyclical. That points in the cycle where 527 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,440 the industry really needs capital. 528 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,640 That's where you get your best deals done. 529 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,320 For us, that's happened twice. The first was 2008 financial 530 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,040 crisis. We had the capital available. 531 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,800 We made some super investments. Palmeria Guadalupe was one of 532 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,920 those. The second time it happened was 533 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,440 20/15/2016. Trying to slow down. 534 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,040 Many of the diversifieds were caught off side with their 535 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,120 balance sheets. We were able to get stakes in in 536 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:27,240 terrific assets, Candelaria and Tamina and to Pakai. 537 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,240 Right. That's, that's really 538 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,360 interesting. I think it kind of it speaks to 539 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:36,080 the, the optionality that that that cash has, but also, I mean, 540 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,240 they're in a competitive industry where the ability to 541 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,400 act fast in those moments of, of distressed opportunities matter 542 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,760 so much, right? You've got A and, and imagine if 543 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,040 you've got a peer royalty company who doesn't have a debt 544 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,760 covenant in place and they've got just, you know, like, you 545 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,680 know, cash that could be deployed, but you've got a debt 546 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,080 covenant. You've got to, you've got to get 547 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,800 your lender to look over because you want to kind of, you know, 548 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,520 maybe maybe allocate more than you, you thought you could for 549 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,320 all of those sorts of reasons. So yeah, it's, I think it's a 550 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,680 function of, of their, their outlook and also the competitive 551 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,240 nature of what they're doing. So that that flows on, you know, 552 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,040 flowing on from that, you've got investment cycles. 553 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,960 And I just underline what, what Paul said. 554 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,160 They're investing opportunistically in the weaker 555 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,280 parts of the cycles, in particular for non precious 556 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,480 metals. They've got a slightly different 557 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,360 outlook for gold. But the, the Detour Lake deal, I 558 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,960 just want to under score to put it in numbers for people to 559 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,680 understand how good a deal this kind of was. 560 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,920 They got a 2% NSR on it for US, $35 million. 561 00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:41,520 This mine did 670,000 oz last year. 562 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,320 They they call that a 250X. It's, it's just kind of 563 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,040 phenomenal. And then there's, you know, the, 564 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,240 the Big South American copper assets that they, they spoke to 565 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,040 goes well, which are kind of stellar. 566 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,320 And gold, like I said, is, is viewed a bit differently, which 567 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,760 I'll get into in a moment. But the way they sort of talk 568 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,240 about this is investing through the cycle and they always 569 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,440 present their board 2 price decks, 1 is more or less the 570 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,240 spot price and the other is consensus. 571 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,360 So it's, it's a bit of a different take to the other 572 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,520 commodities and to piece it together for people, they kind 573 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,680 of want to maintain gold and precious as 70% of their 574 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,680 portfolio and 30 as other commodities. 575 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,840 That's predominantly energy as well as as well as copper. 576 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,000 So the 4th point is ignoring the rate of return and this one is 577 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,520 super, super interesting. So the upfront investment will 578 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,880 always seem to have a low rate of return is how they frame it. 579 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,280 And adding to that, they say whatever you put in the 580 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,640 spreadsheet is going to be wrong. 581 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,480 So their process is kind of two step. 582 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,280 Firstly, are you highly confident that you get your 583 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,280 money back? And secondly, have you picked a 584 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,240 property that can be multiples of its current size in future? 585 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,480 And they sort of say that in this business that's where you 586 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,760 make all the returns. So I'll play it from from then. 587 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,880 Key thing when we're looking at projects are we highly confident 588 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,280 that the project is economic, that we will get our money back. 589 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,640 The number one thing that we think about as a business as I 590 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,840 said up front is it's not the rate of return that you see on 591 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,920 what's there today. It's investing in the right 592 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,560 properties that can be a multiple of their size over time 593 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,280 because if there are multiple of the size that ultimately is, is 594 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,120 where you make your returns in this business there. 595 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,640 You go don't fluff up your study too much if you want Franco to 596 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:33,080 come in. If there's like one kind of word 597 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,200 that describes how this company thinks best, I think it's 598 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,720 optionality. That's what they that's what 599 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,240 they prize over almost everything else. 600 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:47,160 And you know, you're, you're targeting projects, assets that 601 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,080 will last multiple, multiple cycles. 602 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,640 And it, it actually reminds me of this paper that I think we 603 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,520 shared a little while ago from Kaepernick, this, this US fund 604 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,960 on how many, many people out there have flawed valuation 605 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,520 methods for, for mining companies. 606 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,840 And they don't appropriately value the longevity and the 607 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,160 optionality that you get in these top quality projects. 608 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,800 And I think it's just, it's something super interesting to, 609 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,160 to hear and acknowledge from them. 610 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,840 They've always sort of spoken about it, but to hear it is just 611 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,760 reinforces it in my mind. I think if who who benefits from 612 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,160 that optionality the most that come like it's, it's actually 613 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,920 not the miner because their costs creep up as time goes on. 614 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,120 The royalty company captures so much of that in a in a non 615 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,440 linear fashion of that optionality because as a matter 616 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:34,960 it doesn't matter if mining costs go up. 617 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,640 It doesn't matter if inflation, you know, happens on costs 618 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,600 because royalty is percentage of top line. 100% mate. 619 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,640 Is there? So if this is such a good 620 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,840 business, how is it perceived? If a mining developer or company 621 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:55,840 has financing from Franco and a royalty for them forever, is it? 622 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,680 Or if it's so good for Franco, is it? 623 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,560 So this. Is bad for them. 624 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,320 What's the? That's a really interesting 625 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,320 question, Maddie, and it ties into my final point on, on gold 626 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,760 versus other commodities. But to answer your question 627 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,080 directly that they are trying to stamp projects these days and 628 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,680 kind of have a bit of brand power, which I never thought 629 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,120 we'd kind of speak about on a on a mining podcast. 630 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,280 But they want to like give projects that the Franco stamp 631 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,960 of approval and they try and frame it as that having positive 632 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,600 flow on effects for a company's cost of capital because Franco's 633 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,840 done the work now, you know, take it with a bit of a pinch of 634 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,040 salt. They're getting the better deals 635 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,040 there. And the miner is going to pay in 636 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,880 any case to get that stamp of approval, right. 637 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,600 But yeah, it's, it's a double edged sword, right? 638 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,640 It means that Franco's done the work. 639 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,880 And I think this project is going to be around for a long 640 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,000 time. If they're, if they're buying a, 641 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,240 a royalty directly, you know, if they're tearing one up with with 642 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,200 the company, it goes both ways. So we go back kind of 20 years 643 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,480 ago and they're one of very few royalty companies around. 644 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,480 It's a less competitive space that is that has changed quite a 645 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,600 bit. There's more royalty companies 646 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,480 around today and the little royalty companies that are 647 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,840 around are even bigger. And then you've got also got 648 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,640 more competition from the likes of sovereign wealth funds and 649 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,240 like these alternate sorts of capital, your, your Orions of 650 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,440 the world, your Appians of the world, those sorts of guys that 651 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,200 are coming in to try and compete. 652 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,600 But at the same time, you've got a dearth of gold funds. 653 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,560 So the number of pureplay gold funds or mining funds that are 654 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,720 around now is a much smaller number than it was 20, even 10 655 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,920 years ago. And the capital that they're 656 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,000 managing is substantially smaller than it was. 657 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,640 So the landscape has has changed quite a bit. 658 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,080 But as these guys, Franco's position has grown, as they've 659 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,320 become a bigger company, their cost of capital has sort of gone 660 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:51,760 down, they've become even more competitive. 661 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,120 So they can kind of do deals a little different. 662 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,400 But yeah, it's a it's a fascinating kind of landscape 663 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,880 and you can just sort of view how how mining finance has 664 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,560 changed as these guys have grown. 665 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,160 Yeah, right. It's a It sounds that. 666 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:06,680 Was that was a long answer to your question. 667 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,120 But it sounds like a good marketing strategy to say, look, 668 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,800 just attach us to it. It just looks better because we 669 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,960 sound like we've done the DD on it, but we're going to make shit 670 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,440 loads over the long term. Yeah, it's, it's fascinating, 671 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,600 isn't? It I don't think we'll ever look 672 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,920 at a, you know, a royalty on a single asset developer royalty 673 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,320 finance and be like, yeah, this was a great finance. 674 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,840 You know, we're just like because of the way that it 675 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,920 inhibits a project into perpetuity. 676 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,080 But sometimes a single asset developer or even multi asset 677 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,880 development. You think in the case of First 678 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,199 Quantum bringing on copper Panama, like they had to put it 679 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,840 be, you know, royalty stream, yada yada on that. 680 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,040 Thanks to Franco too. Sometimes you have to do it to 681 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,320 get the deal done. Yeah, is it? 682 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,600 Is it perceived Goes. To the first point, this goes to 683 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,400 the first point. You know they do the deals when 684 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,560 you know you need the capital, you being the minor. 685 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,440 Yeah. Is it and is it possibly 686 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,200 perceived a less risky option than conventional debt or 687 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,480 dilutive? And that's so it's a short term 688 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,160 benefit, but Franco gets the huge, huge long term benefit of 689 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:12,520 it. How's it perceived from a 690 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,240 funding dynamic? There's a, it does have elements 691 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,960 of that for sure like you don't have to to pay it back, right. 692 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,120 So that's not going to come and sting you at the bottom of the 693 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,920 cycle the same way high cost debt will, no doubt about that. 694 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,200 Yeah, it's a fair comment. Yeah, in, in and in another 695 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,560 perspective it it makes your corporate appeal a lot lower 696 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,840 too, because it it might just going to be less less hungry to 697 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,520 buy something because the world here out lives. 698 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,880 Yeah, the corporate outcome. You can always, you can always 699 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,360 spin a narrative as well, mate. You can sort of say, oh, we're 700 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,880 a, we're a copper miner. We weren't getting credit for 701 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,400 our gold anyway, so we just streamed off the gold. 702 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,200 That's, that's exactly how Savannah framed it. 703 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,160 You know, they're saying nobody cares about the gold that we 704 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,480 produce in, in the Bushveld. We're a, we're a PGM minor. 705 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,040 That's how people think of us. So we'll stream off the, the 706 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,040 gold. So you can you can spin it a few 707 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,720 ways. Yeah, yeah, that's bloody 708 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,000 interesting. Very, very interesting. 709 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,680 Good digging, Good digging as always. 710 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,520 You want to know another bloody stamp of approval that's 711 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,720 probably worth its weight in gold up at Franco levels. 712 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,560 MMS stamp of approval. Tell me Maddie, but if haven't 713 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,520 them associated with your project. 714 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,360 Look, Black Cat has cracked a dollar and that is either to do 715 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,680 with one or both of MMS open pit mining expertise at Myri or the 716 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,400 tech services arm that complements it, which is 717 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,520 probably been a significant driver to why they've got to the 718 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,720 ORSO early and they're just going to finish it that far 719 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:41,800 ahead of schedule. So you're talking about stamp of 720 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,400 approvals that are actually hold some merit in Australia. 721 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,320 It's Bloody mineral Mining services doing your open pit 722 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,280 mining. It's amazing when you think 723 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,800 about it because, yeah, like, I don't know, maybe even just only 724 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,240 be focusing on Polsons. If it weren't for the innovation 725 00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:59,960 that came from MMS, help them kind of get that going. 726 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,320 And then all of a sudden, like it's like, heck, we might 727 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,520 actually buy a meal here because there's a, there's a fair bit of 728 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,040 upside going on. The flow on effects like mate, 729 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,320 that's like great decisions for perpetuity. 730 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,040 It's like open pit mining royalty. 731 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,600 And look, they will acknowledge that MMS were instrumental in 732 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,160 that process. So mate, just do if you want to 733 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,360 follow a similar trajectory, get MMS doing your bloody open pit 734 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,240 mining, mate. There's going to be, I don't 735 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,960 know if they're going to be doing mining here or not. 736 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,080 Oh, no, you got, Oh, you got a bit more final thoughts, JD or 737 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,360 do you? Yeah, I I had a couple just to 738 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,120 to wrap up on. Ripping me up mate. 739 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,440 On Franco, so real quick, I didn't speak about Cobra Panama 740 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,120 because we touched on it, but that was 15% of the company's 741 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,920 NAV not too long ago. You just go back a couple years 742 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,440 and things are heading in the right direction there. 743 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,840 So watch that space. And finally on on Franco, you 744 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:55,320 know, their strategy has been superbly executed to date and 745 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,440 they've outperformed almost every Goldie as well as the the 746 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,400 metal price since they listed. So came to see if they can 747 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,920 maintain that discipline going forward. 748 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,520 You know, you'll constantly have to kind of do do new deals here 749 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:08,800 and there that knock it out the park. 750 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,400 So we'll we'll see on that front. 751 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,720 But the stock itself can be super, super pricey. 752 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,200 Hence they pay dividends. They don't buy back their stock. 753 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,400 I think that's a bit of an acknowledgement in that there 754 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,440 there are opportunities though in times where these guys have 755 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,040 done deals like they said 2008 and 2015 sixteen, their share 756 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,080 price has been pretty depressed as well. 757 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,520 So you can here and there, you know, it's kind of once a decade 758 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,840 type thing get an opportunity. But in normal times, I think as 759 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,480 an investor, if you are looking at kind of investing in Franco 760 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,160 Nevada's stock, you are paying up quite handsomely for the 761 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,120 optionality in their portfolio, which ironically I think it's 762 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,600 something that Franco's management team themselves would 763 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,320 would never do. So it's a kind of interesting 764 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:57,840 paradox to to leave it on, I think. 765 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,040 Very good God got us all thinking, JD. 766 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,360 Nice work, right everyone's? Thinking let's talk exploration, 767 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:05,440 mate. Exploration. 768 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,640 Jeez, everyone's thinking why the Hell's this going down 769 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,320 bloody 30%? Oh, Caprice, one of the early 770 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,520 gold exploration bolters as UN bolted a bit or sort of back to 771 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,960 where it was before the assays. These assays come, let's go. 772 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,840 There's a pretty interesting sequence of events here. 773 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,880 So they've got the ground up near Remelius's break a day up 774 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,640 in the Murchison. So one now that gold gold's 5000 775 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,040 bucks an ounce today Aussie, which is fascinating that the 776 00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:38,360 gold prices, gold stocks haven't moved that much. 777 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,520 So whether old Trumpies are the the fear of tariffs on the whole 778 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,400 world is offsetting the increased gold price could be a 779 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,080 reason. But it was yeah, it was 780 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,520 fascinating. Not so the the equities move as 781 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,600 much so Caprice in the leader that a busiest a busy 28th of 782 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,280 March. This was which was last week. 783 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,840 They they put out a because I was sort of running. 784 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,360 On no news pending assays, they got up to like 8 and a bit since 785 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,760 and they they released this these incentive securities for 786 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,280 the directors 2 and a half million performance rights each 787 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,360 and half a mil to the cosec as well, I think. 788 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,960 And but on the same day the price was running, they went 789 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,160 into trading halt pending price query and assay announcements. 790 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,920 Everyone's thinking Jesus Christ, there are bloody issue 791 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,960 on performance rights just before assays. 792 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,000 Looks a bit airy gown. But then on the same day, the 793 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,400 28th of March, buddy. They then withdrew the proposed 794 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,400 incentives. So they and those those 795 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,800 incentives were based on the company shares trading above 796 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:50,120 $0.10 for 15 days and at least one year's service. 797 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:57,320 So it was nearly approaching $0.10 so but but it has retraced 798 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,880 today it's back down 30 odd percent on the release and when 799 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,480 it come out of trading hole in the release of the assays. 800 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,840 So you look at look at the first page and you think it oh, 11 801 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,920 metres at 6.7, that doesn't look too bad. 20 at 1 1/2, not as 802 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,680 good 28 at 6.4. But that was the previously 803 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,680 reported result. And then then they had a few 804 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,720 other results at Baxter and everything 10 meters at 3G. 805 00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:26,000 But if you look at I guess you bring up the cross sections and 806 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,200 say, right, what's what's new, what's old and how's it all 807 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,520 looking? So the, I guess the main one 808 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,840 they were going off was this Vadrians Hill that that was 809 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,320 where the 28th at 6.4 is. And you see the new results are 810 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,680 coming out in the yellow. So you head north of there, it 811 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,080 goes to well, I guess the the follow up hole of come back at 812 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,120 20 at 1 1/2. So looks a lot right. 813 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,640 The grades dropped off there. They did a bit of drilling on 814 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,960 the surface in another spot. They all come back as Dusters 5 815 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,160 at .38 at .2. So and then that Baxter 816 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:08,520 prospect, they again going deeper results of 7.46 and 3 817 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,840 meters at .4. So it's sort of just the results 818 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,760 today didn't really match the I guess standard of the initial 819 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,960 results that came out that sort of saw the share price triple. 820 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,480 So it's just looking like that's, that's their phase one, 821 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,240 phase two program complete of 5000 metres. 822 00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:30,600 They've got a phase three follow up of 5000 metres scheduled to 823 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,080 start next month. So there's obviously this is 824 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,760 early stage the volatility of expiration. 825 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,200 So there's plenty of ground there they're going to pepper 826 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:45,040 holes into, but it just shows hype can quickly, very quickly 827 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:50,160 turn into unhop when this gold exploration mania market. 828 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,120 So I'll be interested to see if these performance rights, if 829 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,400 they when they do get granted, if they're still on the exact 830 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,720 same conditions. Yeah, because the share price is 831 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,080 a fairway way now. Yeah, it's down 30%. 832 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,960 So you would hope they come back out at $0.10 as well. 833 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,160 So very interesting. We will wait and see. 834 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,200 So that's you. Saw the series of events and you 835 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,120 thought oh there must be something good to come here but. 836 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:19,360 Yeah, yeah, it's it was funny. Yeah, very interesting. 837 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,680 So Nah. Anyway, see what they do in 838 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,240 another 5000 meters on site. There we go. 839 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,680 Go gold, go expiration. 5000 bucks an ounce. 840 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,400 LGC is freaking off her head. She just can't sit still today. 841 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,800 She's flying. It's gold coming out of her 842 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,600 ears. That's what the alley G is going 843 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,160 to be. The G stands for gold. 844 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:48,480 Now alley gold of Edis. Oh, right, that's where we'll. 845 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,600 See where We'll see where Gold finishes the week on this insane 846 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,840 run. You can tell I just whipped that 847 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,840 up right at the end just to put something in the complimentary 848 00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,120 or extensive segments. Anyway, I got to give a bit of 849 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,480 love to everyone, right? Hey, let's go through the 850 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,840 bloody. The friggin Speaking of, it's 851 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,000 flying out the door. We've got ticket discounts 852 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,400 flying out the door. We've got the JRX conference, 853 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,440 which we mentioned at the show. 160 or 190 bucks off the future 854 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,840 of mining innovation at Brisbane in May. 855 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,800 Get your tickets to that, Oz. I'm in underground operators 856 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,080 conference next week. I've got the bloody and the 857 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:27,400 gather round heading to that. The resource rise and sail one 858 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,640 after that will be a bit hoarse apparently on bloody paddling A 859 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,280 hosting a panel with Koshi. Well, me and it I'll be like, 860 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,680 hey, but young corner of the days of sunrise. 861 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,000 For a conference. Mate, you're in my world now, 862 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,600 Koshi. I'll be doing the I'll be doing 863 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,720 the Carl Koshy roll on that one. Touch him a thing or two. 864 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,320 Yeah, right. I'll show him those boss in the 865 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,280 mining industry. Right. 866 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,560 Who are those all these bloody bosses of the mining industry? 867 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,680 Mineral Mining services, Grounded Samba, Groundsports, AR 868 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,480 Insurance, WA Waterboards, Quattro, Project Engineering, 869 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,520 KCI Site services, Black Diamond Drilling Services. 870 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,680 Love that. That sounds Black Diamond and 871 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,520 Cross Boundary Energy Rd. Rd. 872 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,960 Rd. Road Rd. guys. 873 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,320 Information contained in this episode of Money of Mine is of 874 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,400 general nature only and does not take into account the 875 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,000 objectives, financial situation or needs of any particular 876 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,040 person. Before making any investment 877 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,080 decision, you should consult with your financial advisor and 878 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,240 consider how appropriate the advice is to your objectives, 879 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,440 financial situation and needs.